From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 30 18:58:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UMwvHP002271 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 18:58:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UMwKUw013390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 30 Jun 2003 16:58:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UMwBac012371; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 16:58:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UMw8ac012340 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 16:58:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f7e.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.126]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5A33A5EE0EA for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 00:58:07 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002401c33f5b$84c4ce10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <01fe01c33f52$4607f2a0$d1754ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kid's in Elizabethan costume ? Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 01:01:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, That was a shame, i intented to send you a link to Ninya Mikhailas historical costumes, she had made a lovely dress for a little girl with bumroll and standing ruff, but i just checked her site and there was no link to it anymore. Sorry Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "LIST H costume" Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 11:55 PM Subject: [h-cost] Kid's in Elizabethan costume ? > Kid's in Elizabethan costume ? > > Does anyone have any pics of kids in Elizabethan costume they can send me > direct tonight please ? > > I have had a request to show some at my daughter's school tomorrow, nothing > like lots of notice ! > > Thanks > > Mel > > This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received > it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose > the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of > this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the > Company, unless specifically stated. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 30 19:08:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UN82HP002292 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:08:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UN7SUw015379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:07:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UN7Rac019694; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:07:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UN7Oac019668 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:07:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f7e.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.126]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id F38C55EE0DB for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 01:07:23 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002a01c33f5c$d0e0f250$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 01:10:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] my dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. I really enjoyed that you all liked my new dress. Thanks for all your feed backs. I am happy two, that it finally is finished. Ill ship it to the USA tomorrow, sigh, just like saying goodbye to an old friend. But i am also happy to get rid of it, because it has taken up a lot of space ( i live in a small flat) You know, now i know how it feels, like the big designers say, that they are never satisfied with their work, and they will never be, i feel like that two. There were things i could have made better, but then again, next time maybe it gets better........... I know i am crazy but i start a new thing tomorrow. That thing i want to give away as a gift for a lady i am going to escort for an 18th century party in a castle garden in Sweden. Well i told you that i wanted to make a robe anglaise, but i have changed my mind. I want to make her a Caraco jacket in pearl grey damask and i have some leftover from the embroidered dress, so i could make a blue skirt to go with the jacket. Then i have some silver bobbin lace i could trim the jacket with. I made the lace myself. Many greetings and thanks..................... Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 30 19:32:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UNW0HP002368 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:32:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UNVSUw019870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:31:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UNVRac005926; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:31:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web9407.mail.yahoo.com (web9407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5UNVNac005901 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:31:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030630233123.68726.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.153] by web9407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 16:31:23 PDT Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 16:31:23 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Orkney To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm a little late in getting to my e-mail--but what a wonderful surprise to find someone else was in Orkney in '87:) And what a treat to have worked on an archeaological dig there!I'm green with envy. Many of my best travel memories--are from being in the Orknies in late May of '87. We went there on a whim . Intriqued by the history and pictures we'd seen in books on ancient sites, and because my mom's folks had supposedly had ties there a couple of hundred years ago--we headed straight for there--as soon as we landed in Britain from the States:) We were not disappointed . We fell in love with the area----the old ruins--and the people. I particularly remember wandering around town at 11:30 at night, and it being bright as noon day(.THAT did take some getting used to)The countryside was beautiful. The people were very personable and helpful. It was funny to hear one of the tour guides translating the Viking 'graffetti ' for us scrawled on the inside of one of the behive tombs:) Also memorable--looking out to sea over the windsweep hills from Skara Brea, and visiting the other prehistoric sites hat left me feeling deeply moved. I've promised myself I'll go back one da! y. Freyalyn Close-Hainsworth wrote: as well as to some more remote and uncommercialised > sites. I loved the way the Ring of Brodgar and the Stones of Stenness > are visible from one another. There is a theory that the prehistoric sites at Orkney were all part of a great ritual procession from one to another - I love to imagine progressions of people in the incredibly long light evenings that far north. And I'd forgotten the tiny circular church - I worked on Earl's Bu, the longhouses of the Earls of Orkney, and I was there when we found the souterrain and the gold bracelet. Freyalyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 30 21:45:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h611jEHP002609 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 21:45:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h611inUw005515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:44:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h611ikVF026608; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:44:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h611icVF026530 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:44:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p125-nas15.akl.ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz) [203.173.206.253] by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19XACB-0007b8-00; Tue, 01 Jul 2003 13:44:36 +1200 Message-ID: <3F00E77A.6090504@ihug.co.nz> Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 13:44:26 +1200 From: michaela User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished the robe francaise References: <000d01c33f0d$c6a36e70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000d01c33f0d$c6a36e70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/the_finished_dress.htm Bjarne it's i truly wonderful:) I just hope the lady who is getting it will take photos so we can see how it looks on her too:) She's going to wow them in the dress wherever she goes:) michaela http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 30 22:38:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h612cqHP002771 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 22:38:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h612cOUw009325 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 30 Jun 2003 20:38:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h612cNBL020365; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 20:38:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h612cJBL020327 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 20:38:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.124.37.148]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HHB00IFNR7FXK@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:35:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:35:17 -0700 From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Revolution in Fashion. In-reply-to: <000e01c33f1f$8e7eda40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030630193452.04d68500@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Any idea where this page went? >For those of you, who never got the book, here is a page with lots of the >pictures from the book: >http://www.angelfire.com/retro/thefansite/text/fangallery4.html CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 1 01:11:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h615BwHP002990 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 01:11:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h615BVUw021329 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 30 Jun 2003 23:11:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h615BTDd000579; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 23:11:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web9404.mail.yahoo.com (web9404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h615BQDd000559 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 23:11:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030701051126.41450.qmail@web9404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.153] by web9404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 22:11:26 PDT Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 22:11:26 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished the robe francaise To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F00E77A.6090504@ihug.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What an exquisite work of art, Bjarne!! How very inspiring! Albra michaela wrote: Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/the_finished_dress.htm Bjarne it's i truly wonderful:) I just hope the lady who is getting it will take photos so we can see how it looks on her too:) She's going to wow them in the dress wherever she goes:) michaela http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 1 02:30:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h616UxHP014124 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 02:30:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h616UWUw027163 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jul 2003 00:30:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h616UUtn005699; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 00:30:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h616URtn005672 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 00:30:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-65-29-25-159.mn.rr.com [65.29.25.159])h616UP7P014099 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 01:30:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030701012119.02d88bc0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 01:22:28 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Melanie's underwear In-Reply-To: <3F00720D.7020108@faucet.net> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20030624201656.00a37480@pop3.lfchosting.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20030629171022.022aec50@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:23 PM 6/30/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > >>I've actually had 1/2 spring steel twist on one occasion. It was in my >>effigy style corset in the larger front channels which originally held >>the wider whale bones <...> Initially I used a double layer of spring >>steel but they noticably twisted, the twist lessened when I removed one >>from each casing. It was quite odd but that is the *only* time I've ever >>encountered it. > >That's odd. Are the channels straight? Do they stay straight when you >lace it up? The only way I can think that the bones might twist is if the >channels were curving--like if you could lace the top and the bottom >together but not the middle. I will have to double check but I think part of it was the way it fits over the body curves...that and the casing isn't a perfect rectangle, it is wedge shaped, wider at the top like the original (which of course had whalebone cut to fit). Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 1 02:31:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h616VQHP014284 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 02:31:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h616V3Uw027202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jul 2003 00:31:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h616V3tn005890; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 00:31:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h616UTtn005693 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 00:30:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-65-29-25-159.mn.rr.com [65.29.25.159])h616UP7R014099 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 01:30:27 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030701012445.02dddeb0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 01:25:32 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Revolution in Fashion. In-Reply-To: <000e01c33f1f$8e7eda40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 05:52 PM 6/30/2003 +0200, you wrote: >Hi. >For those of you, who never got the book, here is a page with lots of the >pictures from the book: >http://www.angelfire.com/retro/thefansite/text/fangallery4.html > >Bjarne I tried it out but just got an error page. I wonder if the person had to take it down for copyright reasons... Cheers, Danielle - the Revolution in Fashion deprived : ) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 1 02:39:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h616dLHP017246 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 02:39:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h616cqUw027749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jul 2003 00:38:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h616cqtn008702; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 00:38:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h616cotn008694 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 00:38:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HHC00A552GO9H@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 23:38:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 23:27:13 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] my dress In-reply-to: <002a01c33f5c$d0e0f250$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030630232256.02e60e78@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:10 AM 7/1/2003 +0200, you wrote: >You know, now i know how it feels, like the big designers say, that they are >never satisfied with their work, and they will never be, i feel like that >two. There were things i could have made better, but then again, next time >maybe it gets better........... Thank you for saying this. Now I don't feel so alone in my doubts when I finished a German waffenrock and felt it was not right and got depressed and doubted my skills, even tho I never made anything like that before. It will get better each time, won't it. I can't wait to see what you come up with next. And the silver bobbin lace... I didn't know you did that too. My what talents you have. And yes, I will add myself to the rest. Your gown in just beautiful. I don't have any words to justify the beauty of it. Bravo!! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 1 03:23:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h617NuHP000794 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 03:23:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h617NTUw000332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jul 2003 01:23:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h617NSYA025461; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 01:23:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41501.mail.yahoo.com (web41501.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h617NOYA025401 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 01:23:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030701072319.53099.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41501.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Jul 2003 08:23:19 BST Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:23:19 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Revolution in Fashion. To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20030701012445.02dddeb0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No, but Angelfire does not allow deep linking, go to here: http://www.angelfire.com/retro/thefansite/ Nicole > I tried it out but just got an error page. I wonder if the person had to > take it down for copyright reasons... > > Cheers, > Danielle - the Revolution in Fashion deprived : ) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 1 03:36:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h617a4HP006734 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 03:36:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h617ZdUw000949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jul 2003 01:35:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h617ZcYA029889; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 01:35:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h617ZZYA029876 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 01:35:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-65-29-25-159.mn.rr.com [65.29.25.159])h617ZV7R021527 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 02:35:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030701024014.02c98db0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 02:40:48 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Revolution in Fashion. In-Reply-To: <20030701072319.53099.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20030701012445.02dddeb0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:23 AM 7/1/2003 +0100, you wrote: >No, but Angelfire does not allow deep linking, go to here: > >http://www.angelfire.com/retro/thefansite/ > >Nicole > > > I tried it out but just got an error page. I wonder if the person had to > > take it down for copyright reasons... > > > > Cheers, > > Danielle - the Revolution in Fashion deprived : ) Hi Nicole, Actually I had tried that way as well and still got errors...that is why I thought the page might have been removed. Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 1 04:00:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6180pHP018063 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 04:00:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6180SUw002209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jul 2003 02:00:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6180RwW008659; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 02:00:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6180NwW008633 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 02:00:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f9f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.159]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 340845EE1EE for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:00:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002b01c33fa7$4f292250$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:03:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] revolution in fashion X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello I am sorry that the page does not work anymore. Perhaps it is the traffic that got two big. It was a lace- lady i know who sended me the link, and i passed it on to you, because i thoaght you wanted to have a look. Oh boy, perhaps i should never had done that............. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 1 04:10:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h618AJHP020266 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 04:10:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6189eUw002658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jul 2003 02:09:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6189ewW011859; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 02:09:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41502.mail.yahoo.com (web41502.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6189cwW011822 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 02:09:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030701080933.34816.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Jul 2003 09:09:33 BST Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:09:33 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Revolution in Fashion. To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20030701024014.02c98db0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, okay, sorry for that then. Nicole > > Hi Nicole, > > Actually I had tried that way as well and still got errors...that is why I > thought the page might have been removed. > > Cheers, > Danielle > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 1 08:57:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61CvmHP006766 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:57:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61CvGUw004720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jul 2003 06:57:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61CvEd6019199; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 06:57:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4-7.mebtel.net [64.40.67.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61CvCd6019181 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 06:57:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-71.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.71]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AE9239D43 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F0193D9.1020504@grics.net> Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 08:59:53 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Revolution in Fashion. References: <20030701080933.34816.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030701080933.34816.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I get errors all the time for sites that are just fine - try again a little later? (It just worked for me) H L N Kipar wrote: >Oh, okay, sorry for that then. > >Nicole > > >>Hi Nicole, >> >>Actually I had tried that way as well and still got errors...that is why I >>thought the page might have been removed. >> >>Cheers, >>Danielle >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > >===== >Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism > >Email: nicole@kipar.org >URL: http://www.kipar.org > >________________________________________________________________________ >Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! >Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 1 09:02:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61D2MHP006782 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:02:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61D1uUw004961 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jul 2003 07:01:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61D1td6021179; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 07:01:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4.mebtel.net [64.40.67.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61D1sd6021160 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 07:01:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-71.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.71]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28FCC27D4B for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:54:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F0194F0.90803@grics.net> Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 09:04:32 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <5.0.0.25.2.20030701012445.02dddeb0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20030701012445.02dddeb0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] (oops) Revolution in Fashion. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ...the one that worked was the one you (Nicole) suggested. Sorry HL _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 1 09:34:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61DYLHP006840 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:34:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61DUpUw007046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jul 2003 07:30:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61DUnd6005059; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 07:30:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61DSed6004150 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 07:28:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h61DScp09508.; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:28:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 01 Jul 2003 14:28:38 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 14:28:22 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Orkney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-SdV-Metrics: net.indra.com 1179; Body=1 Fuz1=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For a report on the Earl's Bu excavations, see http://www.sair.org.uk/sair4/index.html Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 1 10:20:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61EKEHP006953 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:20:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61EJmUw012197 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:19:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61EJkZu003964; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:19:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61EJhZu003925 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:19:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-009scfairp0097.dialsprint.net ([63.189.144.97] helo=faucet.net) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19XLyw-0002xC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 01 Jul 2003 07:19:42 -0700 Message-ID: <3F01A5D5.4050402@faucet.net> Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 10:16:38 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <200306241802.h5OI2RBP022583@net.indra.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030624225658.02e51a58@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] date for mid-16th-century portrait? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings to all Can anyone give me a date for this portrait? http://infotrope.net/sca/textiles/costume/pemberton/blackmary.jpg Thanks, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 1 11:21:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61FLkHP007149 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:21:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61FLJUw018299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:21:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61FLHUf014874; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:21:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61FLCUf014819 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:21:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail22.ureach.com (mail22.ureach.com [172.16.2.82]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21453 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:21:12 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-223-181.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.223.181]) by mail22.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA14041 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:21:12 -0400 Message-ID: <000901c33fe3$e551df60$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200306241802.h5OI2RBP022583@net.indra.com><5.1.0.14.0.20030624225658.02e51a58@127.0.0.1> <3F01A5D5.4050402@faucet.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] date for mid-16th-century portrait? Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:17:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Every reference I can find for this portrait says "date unknown". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Schuessler" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 11:16 AM Subject: [h-cost] date for mid-16th-century portrait? > Greetings to all > > Can anyone give me a date for this portrait? > > http://infotrope.net/sca/textiles/costume/pemberton/blackmary.jpg > > Thanks, > Melanie Schuessler > http://www.faucet.net/costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 1 13:29:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61HTgHP007469 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:29:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61HT4Uw002527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:29:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61HSxTY018012; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:29:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61HSuTY017891 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:28:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bently (dialport74.tukwila.eskimo.net [208.187.15.139]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA05383 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:28:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <013901c33ff6$619a1b20$ea9fbbd0@bently> From: "David" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030515081030.66508.qmail@web40020.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Advice wanted for an England trip Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:29:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Rachel, I've been keeping your note in my inbox until I got things straightened out enough to know what I'd be doing when, and where. While I love Elizabethan, and would love to see Sulgrave Manor, I just don't think it's going to happen, especially since I don't plan on renting a car (I'm terrified of the idea of driving on the left, my brain just doesn't make those kind of adjustments). Thank you so much for telling me about it, even if I can't go! Pam Dotson Everett, WA USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel" To: Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 1:10 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Advice wanted for an England trip > Hi Pam, > > Well there is lots you can do in August. Musuem wise there is the Victoria and Albert Museum, > British Museum, Museum of London all in London as well as lots more smaller museums and the art > galleries as well. > > Hampton Court Palace is well worth a visit and fairly easy to get to on the train from London > (Waterloo Station every 30 mins to Hampton Court), Buckingham Palace should be open to the public > and it's worth going to see the Royal Collection which is a separate bit in a building on the same > site, they have an exhibition of sketches by da Vinci at the moment, may still be on in August but > you should be able to check over the internet. Windsor Castle is another good place to visit. > > I don't know what period in history you are particularly interested in but if Elizabethan is up > your street you can come and pay my group a visit (The Tudor Group) as we will be doing our week > long inhabitation of a lower gentry house in August (see www.tudorgroup.co.uk) for more details. > It's outside London but not too difficult to get to if you hire a car. > > You should probably take the opportunity of touring round the country a bit as there are some real > treasures outside of London. > > Let me know if I can be any more help. > > Rachel > > > > From: "David" > > Subject: [h-cost] Advice wanted for an England trip > > To: , > > Message-ID: <01f501c31a36$c9ee4e20$5b0ebbd0@bently> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Since I never thought I'd actually ever wind up going to England, I never > > paid too much attention to which museums and the like people said > > interesting pieces were in. Now, as kind of a reward for getting through my > > lung cancer treatment, my parents are going to send me there, probably for > > most of August. I'll most likely spend the bulk of my time in London, but > > can go anywhere I want, if there's something worth going there for. > > > > Overall, I'm an all-things-fiber addict, with a strong bias towards anything > > over a thousand years old, and an unexpected weakness for Edwardian gowns. > > I'm the sort who would happily spend several hours in front of the same > > case, trying to trace thread paths, and making notes (heaven help me!). So, > > where would you recommend I go, and what should I see? And do you have any > > great advice as to where I should stay while I'm seeing it? > > > > Thank you for whatever help you can provide. This is a once-in-a-lifetime > > kind of thing for me, and I'd really like to do it well. > > > > Pam Dotson > > Everett, WA USA > > > > > ===== > Rachel > > Tudor Bibliography > http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ > > __________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Plus > For a better Internet experience > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 1 13:56:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61HuMHP007541 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:56:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61HtpUw005500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:55:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61HtnED009086; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:55:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav48.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.171.78]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61HtkED008951 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:55:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:55:40 -0700 Received: from 66.123.53.66 by bay4-dav48.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 01 Jul 2003 17:55:40 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.123.53.66] X-Originating-Email: [ysandra8@msn.com] From: "ysandra sliverneedle" To: References: <200307011331.h61DV3d8005193@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:55:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:55:40 -0700 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Jul 2003 17:55:40.0947 (UTC) FILETIME=[FC56F630:01C33FF9] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Blue Dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h61HuMHP007541 Status: RO Bjarne, What a luck lady to receive this outstanding beautiful dress! It has been a pleasure to watch your progress start to finish. Many thanks for sharing. It is always a joy to hear what you are up too. Happy Sewing Ysandra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 1 14:07:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61I7gHP007634 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:07:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61I76Uw006965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:07:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61I73ED017795; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:07:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h61I6wED017728 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:06:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 17074 invoked by uid 1005); 1 Jul 2003 18:06:22 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.340244 secs); 01 Jul 2003 18:06:22 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.340244 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 2003 18:06:22 -0000 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:06:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Advice wanted for an England trip In-Reply-To: <013901c33ff6$619a1b20$ea9fbbd0@bently> Message-ID: <20030701140205.F48334-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > While I love Elizabethan, and would love to see Sulgrave Manor, I just don't > think it's going to happen, especially since I don't plan on renting a car > (I'm terrified of the idea of driving on the left, my brain just doesn't > make those kind of adjustments). Pam, I didn't have a car in England, but got to Sulgrave Manor for the re-enactment and was so glad I did. I took the train to the nearest large town, took a bus to Banbury (?) and it was a 10-minute taxi ride from there. Not the cheapest trip, but cheaper--and much less stress--than driving. Me + Car + English highways=Much Badness. It was Sooo worth it! The people were amazing! The manor was amazing! I learned so much about so many different 16th c. activities: Embroidery, bookbinding, candlemaking, dyeing, etc--plus, I made some really good contacts in the 16th c. costume research community over there. If you can afford the train & bus fare, I definitely recommend going. Drea > > Thank you so much for telling me about it, even if I can't go! > > Pam Dotson > Everett, WA USA > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rachel" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 1:10 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Re: Advice wanted for an England trip > > > > Hi Pam, > > > > Well there is lots you can do in August. Musuem wise there is the > Victoria and Albert Museum, > > British Museum, Museum of London all in London as well as lots more > smaller museums and the art > > galleries as well. > > > > Hampton Court Palace is well worth a visit and fairly easy to get to on > the train from London > > (Waterloo Station every 30 mins to Hampton Court), Buckingham Palace > should be open to the public > > and it's worth going to see the Royal Collection which is a separate bit > in a building on the same > > site, they have an exhibition of sketches by da Vinci at the moment, may > still be on in August but > > you should be able to check over the internet. Windsor Castle is another > good place to visit. > > > > I don't know what period in history you are particularly interested in but > if Elizabethan is up > > your street you can come and pay my group a visit (The Tudor Group) as we > will be doing our week > > long inhabitation of a lower gentry house in August (see > www.tudorgroup.co.uk) for more details. > > It's outside London but not too difficult to get to if you hire a car. > > > > You should probably take the opportunity of touring round the country a > bit as there are some real > > treasures outside of London. > > > > Let me know if I can be any more help. > > > > Rachel > > > > > > > From: "David" > > > Subject: [h-cost] Advice wanted for an England trip > > > To: , > > > Message-ID: <01f501c31a36$c9ee4e20$5b0ebbd0@bently> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > > > Since I never thought I'd actually ever wind up going to England, I > never > > > paid too much attention to which museums and the like people said > > > interesting pieces were in. Now, as kind of a reward for getting > through my > > > lung cancer treatment, my parents are going to send me there, probably > for > > > most of August. I'll most likely spend the bulk of my time in London, > but > > > can go anywhere I want, if there's something worth going there for. > > > > > > Overall, I'm an all-things-fiber addict, with a strong bias towards > anything > > > over a thousand years old, and an unexpected weakness for Edwardian > gowns. > > > I'm the sort who would happily spend several hours in front of the same > > > case, trying to trace thread paths, and making notes (heaven help me!). > So, > > > where would you recommend I go, and what should I see? And do you have > any > > > great advice as to where I should stay while I'm seeing it? > > > > > > Thank you for whatever help you can provide. This is a > once-in-a-lifetime > > > kind of thing for me, and I'd really like to do it well. > > > > > > Pam Dotson > > > Everett, WA USA > > > > > > > > > ===== > > Rachel > > > > Tudor Bibliography > > http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Yahoo! Plus > > For a better Internet experience > > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 1 14:11:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61IBeHP007642 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:11:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61IB9Uw007395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:11:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61IB8ED020687; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:11:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61IB4ED020627 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:11:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bently (dialport74.tukwila.eskimo.net [208.187.15.139]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA09398 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:11:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <015d01c33ffc$475b9a80$ea9fbbd0@bently> From: "David" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030515081030.66508.qmail@web40020.mail.yahoo.com> <013901c33ff6$619a1b20$ea9fbbd0@bently> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Advice wanted for an England trip Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:12:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear list, Sorry for that last posting, I meant to send it privately, but obviously made a mistake! Pam Dotson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 1 14:47:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61Il3HP007744 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:47:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61IkUUw011348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:46:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61IkSED017110; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:46:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt20.cluster1.charter.net (remt20.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61IkPED016968 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:46:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [68.185.167.6] (HELO laptop) by remt20.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with SMTP id 80263282 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 01 Jul 2003 14:46:15 -0400 Message-ID: <005601c34000$e350b200$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030515081030.66508.qmail@web40020.mail.yahoo.com><013901c33ff6$619a1b20$ea9fbbd0@bently> <015d01c33ffc$475b9a80$ea9fbbd0@bently> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Advice wanted for an England trip Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:45:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's OK - I 'm going to London in September, so all these posts are getting saved in my "London" folder! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Advice wanted for an England trip > Dear list, > > Sorry for that last posting, I meant to send it privately, but obviously > made a mistake! > > Pam Dotson > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 1 15:52:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61JqWHP008176 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 15:52:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61JpwUw019489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:51:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61Jpv7h006952; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:51:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40403.mail.yahoo.com (web40403.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h61Jps7h006876 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:51:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030701195149.21111.qmail@web40403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.77.204.32] by web40403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Jul 2003 12:51:49 PDT Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:51:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Quite Contrary To: h-costume@net.indra.com In-Reply-To: <200307011331.h61DV3d8005193@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 363 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try this site: http://www.ladymesmerism.net/medchildren/main.html ~Mary (back to lurking...) > Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 22:55:06 +0100 > From: "Melanie Wilson" > Subject: [h-cost] Kid's in Elizabethan costume ? > To: "LIST H costume" > Message-ID: <01fe01c33f52$4607f2a0$d1754ed5@pavilion> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Kid's in Elizabethan costume ? > > Does anyone have any pics of kids in Elizabethan costume they can > send me > direct tonight please ? > > I have had a request to show some at my daughter's school tomorrow, > nothing > like lots of notice ! > > Thanks > > Mel > ===== "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before." ~ Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 1 16:09:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61K9hHP008401 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 16:09:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61K9DUw021603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:09:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61K9Bqs019209; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:09:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61K98qs019164 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:09:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030701200907.JPJU16215.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:09:07 +0100 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030701210819.01815240@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 21:09:01 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Advice wanted for an England trip In-Reply-To: <005601c34000$e350b200$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> References: <20030515081030.66508.qmail@web40020.mail.yahoo.com> <013901c33ff6$619a1b20$ea9fbbd0@bently> <015d01c33ffc$475b9a80$ea9fbbd0@bently> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-3B6E7928; boundary="=======F915BFA=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======F915BFA======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-3B6E7928; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 13:45 01/07/2003 -0500, you wrote: >That's OK - I 'm going to London in September, so all these posts are >getting saved in my "London" folder! Go to the British Museum. There's a special exhibition until November called "1753." It's all about London in 1753 and by all accounts it is wonderful! Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance Author of the Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books, 4 stars from RT http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======F915BFA======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======F915BFA=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 1 16:53:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61KrNHP008909 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 16:53:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61KqqUw029199 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:52:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61Kqlem026312; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:52:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61Kqfem026239 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:52:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-32-115.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.32.115])h61KqOSQ029864 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 15:52:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030701135121.00e217c0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 13:52:12 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] (oops) Revolution in Fashion. In-Reply-To: <3F0194F0.90803@grics.net> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20030701012445.02dddeb0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20030701012445.02dddeb0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >...the one that worked was the one you (Nicole) suggested. Some of us still can't get there. I know I found it once, but I was just checking it out so I could go back there. Not I can't get there at all. Whazzup? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 03:08:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6278jHP007825 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 03:08:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62786Uw028511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 01:08:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62780Pt016997; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 01:08:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41502.mail.yahoo.com (web41502.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6277vPt016926 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 01:07:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030702070751.51092.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 08:07:51 BST Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:07:51 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Children image site, Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 363 To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20030701195149.21111.qmail@web40403.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Quite Contrary wrote: > Try this site: > http://www.ladymesmerism.net/medchildren/main.html > > ~Mary (back to lurking...) Wow! Thank you Mary, I never came across this site, it is great! Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 03:45:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h627jtHP021045 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 03:45:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h627jWUw001460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 01:45:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h627jUPt002966; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 01:45:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h627jRPt002942 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 01:45:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (adsl-67-124-118-61.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [67.124.118.61])h627jOSJ007526 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 02:45:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030702004031.00b2ac00@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 00:43:00 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished the robe francaise In-Reply-To: <000d01c33f0d$c6a36e70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:44 PM 6/30/2003 +0200, you wrote: >Finally i have finished the embroidered robe francaise with chenille >embroidery. >That is why i was so quiet lately, because i was buisy. >I am very pleased with the result, it looks very like the drawing i made in >the first place. >I have made 3 significant costumes in my life, Nicoles blue Baroque dress, >my own embroidered suit, and now this fine dress. >Boy am i glad i finally finished it! >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/the_finished_dress.htm > >Bjarne >Well that's certainly pretty! Congratulations on creating a lovely gown. Now I've got to get my butt in gear and build a robe a la francaise for myself, but I'm sure it won't look quite as nice as yours does. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 04:23:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h628NMHP005369 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 04:23:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h628MtUw003700 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 02:22:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h628MrJn017118; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 02:22:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7-svc.business.ntl.com (mta7-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h628MpJn017101 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 02:22:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Imedia5043 ([80.1.14.194]) by mta7-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20030702082249.IKGK13147.mta7-svc.business.ntl.com@Imedia5043> for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:22:49 +0100 Message-ID: <002801c34073$1aa6c6a0$c20e0150@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030515081030.66508.qmail@web40020.mail.yahoo.com><013901c33ff6$619a1b20$ea9fbbd0@bently><015d01c33ffc$475b9a80$ea9fbbd0@bently> <005601c34000$e350b200$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Advice wanted for an England trip Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:22:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO depending on what periods you are interested in you should take a wander over to west London and visit all the historic houses there. This was once the area for the court to retreat in the country and there are many splendid country houses over that way including Chiswick House, Hogarths house, Boston Manor House, Syon Park, Ham House, Osterley & Marble Hill house, as well as Kew Gardens most with Tudor Origins refurbished in the 18thc and all with magnificent portraits furniture etc. Also don't forget the Wallace Collection just behind Oxford Street largest collection of Canaletto's, not to mention Bouchers etc Dawn listing all the places she misses now she's moved to Leeds where the Royal Armouries is Ages Of Elegance makers of Historical reproduction Clothing, Uniforms and Bridalwear http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 7:45 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Advice wanted for an England trip > That's OK - I 'm going to London in September, so all these posts are > getting saved in my "London" folder! > > ********************** > Rebecca Schmitt > aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot > BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence > > A room without books is like a body without a soul > ---Cicero > > lotsofteapots@charter.net > ********************** > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:12 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Advice wanted for an England trip > > > > Dear list, > > > > Sorry for that last posting, I meant to send it privately, but obviously > > made a mistake! > > > > Pam Dotson > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 08:33:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62CXgHP016670 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:33:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62CXDUw022916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 06:33:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62CXBWh001165; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 06:33:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (imap.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h62CX8Wh001107 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 06:33:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 17183 invoked by uid 65534); 2 Jul 2003 12:33:02 -0000 Received: from p50801BA7.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.2.21]) (80.128.27.167) by mail.gmx.net (mp005) with SMTP; 02 Jul 2003 14:33:02 +0200 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 14:33:00 +0200 From: Cassandra Greer To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h62CX8Wh001107 Subject: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO HI all! I just had the great pleasure of having Deredere and her husband over for the past week. We had tons of fun and thanks to her knowledge and my 150 meters of ponge, we will both soon have new chemises with blackwork :))) Anyway, besides the hours we spent surfing, talking and looking at pictures, we also spent an hour staring at the extant 16th and 17th costumes at the Bayerisches Nationalmuseum here in Munich. We saw all sorts of details that we hadn't noticed before and would affect how one would make a dress from the late 16th century. Deredere is better at details than I am so when she gets back home, I'm sure she'll make a report. The highlight of our museum visits was the visit to the archives of the Bayerisches Nationalmuseum. Since the curator of the Textil exhibit (for which I arranged the sending of many catalogs) offered to take me there, I took her up on the offer and we were able to go yesterday. We saw close-up several of the pieces that had been on exhibit as well as some early Tudor shows (similar to the ones we see Henry VIII see - I still can't see how they kept those things on!) and a very long pointed delicate patten. The coolest thing though was getting to see the corset worn by Pfaltzgrfin Dorothea Sabine von Neuberg who died in 1598 (one place to see this is at http://costume.dm.net/corsets/history.html. Birgit held it up so we could see all sides and inside as well. I was surprised how little fabric was used (Birgit said one layer of linen and one layer of silk but I think it was 2 layers of linen as described in Janet Arnold (page 47 and 112-113 Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620) and correspondingly on the web page I mention above. Nevertheless it was very thin (even taking age and deterioration into account). The lady who wore it (died at age 22) was very tiny compared to most of us and I doubt had much to form. At this point Deredere and I had an epiphany of sorts. We noticed that the front (and the back) of the corset was quite high. It would have hit Dorothea right at the point where the bulge of the breastbone starts (I have no clue what the correct anatomical designations are so bear with). About 2-2.5 inches (5-6 cm) below the hole in your neck where you collar bones and your neck tendons meet the breastbone. If you draw a line from this point over to you arms you come to the bottom point of the ball of you big arm bone. The back is similary high, therefore the straps are quite short. When we got home and the shock had worn off a bit, Deredere started looking at her wedding dress pictures and realized that her dress has a noticeable flaw when compared to this corset. Her corset is too low. I would also have to say that she probably wears way too low on the hips as well. She is always complaining that it hurts her hip after a while. This is my conclusion after seeing Dorothea's corset and dress. The corset (and bodice) hit no lower than the top of the natural waist if not right at where the ribs end. (This also fits in with whatever thread that was mentioning women resting their elbows or arms or whatever on their dresses supported by farthingales). Since the bodice is high-necked, I can't make any statement as to whether this corset would also be used for low-necked bodices - a though we came up with. After this we surfed around quite a bit looking at Tudor and Elizabethian and other 16th century dresses (English, Spanish, French) portraits and noticed how high the fronts of the neck cutouts (as well as how far down the shoulders usually sit). In the majority of these portraits (the major exceptions being Italian), the bodices hit at the point on the chest I described above. We then looked at many examples of Tudor and Elizabethian and other 16th century dresses (English, Spanish, French) that have been made by people from all over the world and our conclusion is that about 95% of these costumes have the same flaw(s) Deredere's costume has. Everyone's corset (and bodice) sits probably - at least- 2 inches two low (at least) and also sits too low on the hips as well. The only portraits we saw had -no- little breast bubbles at the top. If the corset is high enough there can't be any. After I realized this I realized why so many of the wonderful costumes I had seen still bothered me the tiniest little bit... This is of course no comfort to those of us who are well endowed but are still trying to get that flat look - that I haven't yet figured out without at least some sort of shelf. Oh- a new thought - many of the portraits (but not all) have the woman sitting - maybe that makes a difference.... Cass :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 09:38:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62DcSHP016780 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:38:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62Dc3Uw028566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62Dc1Eb001814; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62DbtEb001775 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:37:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f85.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.133]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7E76F47FFA0 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:37:53 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000501c3409f$c14fdc40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:42:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-DCC-WEiAPG-Metrics: net.indra.com 1072; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Cassandra. How wonderfull it is, when 2 Costume Freaks ( like all of us) meets, and starts some brainstorming! Thanks a lot for sharing that valuable usefull informations to all the rest of us! I am so jaloux, it seems that you had such a wonderfull time! Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 09:48:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62Dm4HP016825 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:48:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62DlcUw029449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:47:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62DlaEb007324; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:47:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h62DlUEb007242 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:47:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 49235 invoked by uid 1005); 2 Jul 2003 13:47:25 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.080975 secs); 02 Jul 2003 13:47:25 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.080975 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 2003 13:47:25 -0000 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:47:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030702094534.J66380-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id h62DlUEb007242 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow, lucky! I can't wait till I have a chance to see the real thing (tm) as well. Congrats! There's nothing like seeing the original. I noticed the same thing a while back about recreation Tudor costumes--on the whole, the necklines are too low. I wonder how this came about. Perhaps it's been influenced by the "wench effect" in the past. One of the things I liked about the movie Lady Jane was that all of the gowns had necklines at the appropriate height...and they all looked right. Drea On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, Cassandra Greer wrote: > HI all! > > I just had the great pleasure of having Deredere and her husband over for > the past week. We had tons of fun and thanks to her knowledge and my 150 > meters of ponge, we will both soon have new chemises with blackwork :))) > > Anyway, besides the hours we spent surfing, talking and looking at pictures, > we also spent an hour staring at the extant 16th and 17th costumes at the > Bayerisches Nationalmuseum here in Munich. We saw all sorts of details that > we hadn't noticed before and would affect how one would make a dress from > the late 16th century. Deredere is better at details than I am so when she > gets back home, I'm sure she'll make a report. > > The highlight of our museum visits was the visit to the archives of the > Bayerisches Nationalmuseum. Since the curator of the Textil exhibit (for > which I arranged the sending of many catalogs) offered to take me there, I > took her up on the offer and we were able to go yesterday. We saw close-up > several of the pieces that had been on exhibit as well as some early Tudor > shows (similar to the ones we see Henry VIII see - I still can't see how > they kept those things on!) and a very long pointed delicate patten. > > The coolest thing though was getting to see the corset worn by Pfaltzgrfin > Dorothea Sabine von Neuberg who died in 1598 (one place to see this is at > http://costume.dm.net/corsets/history.html. Birgit held it up so we could > see all sides and inside as well. I was surprised how little fabric was used > (Birgit said one layer of linen and one layer of silk but I think it was 2 > layers of linen as described in Janet Arnold (page 47 and 112-113 Patterns > of Fashion 1560-1620) and correspondingly on the web page I mention above. > Nevertheless it was very thin (even taking age and deterioration into > account). The lady who wore it (died at age 22) was very tiny compared to > most of us and I doubt had much to form. At this point Deredere and I had an > epiphany of sorts. We noticed that the front (and the back) of the corset > was quite high. It would have hit Dorothea right at the point where the > bulge of the breastbone starts (I have no clue what the correct anatomical > designations are so bear with). About 2-2.5 inches (5-6 cm) below the hole > in your neck where you collar bones and your neck tendons meet the > breastbone. If you draw a line from this point over to you arms you come to > the bottom point of the ball of you big arm bone. The back is similary high, > therefore the straps are quite short. > > When we got home and the shock had worn off a bit, Deredere started looking > at her wedding dress pictures and realized that her dress has a noticeable > flaw when compared to this corset. Her corset is too low. I would also have > to say that she probably wears way too low on the hips as well. She is > always complaining that it hurts her hip after a while. This is my > conclusion after seeing Dorothea's corset and dress. The corset (and bodice) > hit no lower than the top of the natural waist if not right at where the > ribs end. (This also fits in with whatever thread that was mentioning women > resting their elbows or arms or whatever on their dresses supported by > farthingales). Since the bodice is high-necked, I can't make any statement > as to whether this corset would also be used for low-necked bodices - a > though we came up with. > > After this we surfed around quite a bit looking at Tudor and Elizabethian > and other 16th century dresses (English, Spanish, French) portraits and > noticed how high the fronts of the neck cutouts (as well as how far down the > shoulders usually sit). In the majority of these portraits (the major > exceptions being Italian), the bodices hit at the point on the chest I > described above. We then looked at many examples of Tudor and Elizabethian > and other 16th century dresses (English, Spanish, French) that have been > made by people from all over the world and our conclusion is that about 95% > of these costumes have the same flaw(s) Deredere's costume has. Everyone's > corset (and bodice) sits probably - at least- 2 inches two low (at least) > and also sits too low on the hips as well. The only portraits we saw had > -no- little breast bubbles at the top. If the corset is high enough there > can't be any. After I realized this I realized why so many of the wonderful > costumes I had seen still bothered me the tiniest little bit... This is of > course no comfort to those of us who are well endowed but are still trying > to get that flat look - that I haven't yet figured out without at least some > sort of shelf. Oh- a new thought - many of the portraits (but not all) have > the woman sitting - maybe that makes a difference.... > > Cass :) > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 09:52:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62DqIHP016833 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:52:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62DpoUw029841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:51:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62DpnEb009429; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:51:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (imap.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h62DpiEb009333 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:51:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 28819 invoked by uid 65534); 2 Jul 2003 13:51:38 -0000 Received: from p50801BA7.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.2.21]) (80.128.27.167) by mail.gmx.net (mp003) with SMTP; 02 Jul 2003 15:51:38 +0200 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:51:35 +0200 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations From: Cassandra Greer To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000501c3409f$c14fdc40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, Bjarne, I do recall inviting you down to stay with us so you could go to the musuem too - the invitation still stands ;))) Cass :) > Dear Cassandra. > How wonderfull it is, when 2 Costume Freaks ( like all of us) meets, and > starts some brainstorming! > Thanks a lot for sharing that valuable usefull informations to all the rest > of us! > I am so jaloux, it seems that you had such a wonderfull time! > > Bjarne > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 10:01:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62E1xHP016861 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:01:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62E1WUw000810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:01:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62E1Vnj014477; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:01:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h62E1Rnj014410 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:01:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 31992 invoked by uid 65534); 2 Jul 2003 14:01:21 -0000 Received: from p50801BA7.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.2.21]) (80.128.27.167) by mail.gmx.net (mp007) with SMTP; 02 Jul 2003 16:01:21 +0200 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 16:01:18 +0200 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations From: Cassandra Greer To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030702094534.J66380-100000@shell.siscom.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h62E1Rnj014410 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Wow, lucky! I can't wait till I have a chance to see the real thing (tm) > as well. Congrats! There's nothing like seeing the original. Indeed! ehem I had actually forgotten this corset was at this museum. We didn't ask to see it, she just brought it out (ergo the shock :))) Another thing I noticed which backs up our hypothesis is that in the Janet Arnold exhibit, the display for the Eleanor de Toledo dress (which was never finished) shows that the front of this 'low-necked' dress hits where I described on the chest. Deredere found an online image of this but I don't know exactly where it is now. She can find faster than me so I'll let her :))) > > I noticed the same thing a while back about recreation Tudor costumes--on > the whole, the necklines are too low. I wonder how this came about. > Perhaps it's been influenced by the "wench effect" in the past. Maybe that and the fact that in the 17th century (and the Italians anyway) they did start going lower till you have those really nice breast bubbles in the 18th century ;) >One of the > things I liked about the movie Lady Jane was that all of the gowns had > necklines at the appropriate height...and they all looked right. I do have that movie but I lent it out some time ago and haven't managed to get it it back - but I do recall that the fronts were high too. Cass :) > > Drea > > On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, Cassandra Greer wrote: > >> HI all! >> >> I just had the great pleasure of having Deredere and her husband over for >> the past week. We had tons of fun and thanks to her knowledge and my 150 >> meters of ponge, we will both soon have new chemises with blackwork :))) >> >> Anyway, besides the hours we spent surfing, talking and looking at pictures, >> we also spent an hour staring at the extant 16th and 17th costumes at the >> Bayerisches Nationalmuseum here in Munich. We saw all sorts of details that >> we hadn't noticed before and would affect how one would make a dress from >> the late 16th century. Deredere is better at details than I am so when she >> gets back home, I'm sure she'll make a report. >> >> The highlight of our museum visits was the visit to the archives of the >> Bayerisches Nationalmuseum. Since the curator of the Textil exhibit (for >> which I arranged the sending of many catalogs) offered to take me there, I >> took her up on the offer and we were able to go yesterday. We saw close-up >> several of the pieces that had been on exhibit as well as some early Tudor >> shows (similar to the ones we see Henry VIII see - I still can't see how >> they kept those things on!) and a very long pointed delicate patten. >> >> The coolest thing though was getting to see the corset worn by Pfaltzgrfin >> Dorothea Sabine von Neuberg who died in 1598 (one place to see this is at >> http://costume.dm.net/corsets/history.html. Birgit held it up so we could >> see all sides and inside as well. I was surprised how little fabric was used >> (Birgit said one layer of linen and one layer of silk but I think it was 2 >> layers of linen as described in Janet Arnold (page 47 and 112-113 Patterns >> of Fashion 1560-1620) and correspondingly on the web page I mention above. >> Nevertheless it was very thin (even taking age and deterioration into >> account). The lady who wore it (died at age 22) was very tiny compared to >> most of us and I doubt had much to form. At this point Deredere and I had an >> epiphany of sorts. We noticed that the front (and the back) of the corset >> was quite high. It would have hit Dorothea right at the point where the >> bulge of the breastbone starts (I have no clue what the correct anatomical >> designations are so bear with). About 2-2.5 inches (5-6 cm) below the hole >> in your neck where you collar bones and your neck tendons meet the >> breastbone. If you draw a line from this point over to you arms you come to >> the bottom point of the ball of you big arm bone. The back is similary high, >> therefore the straps are quite short. >> >> When we got home and the shock had worn off a bit, Deredere started looking >> at her wedding dress pictures and realized that her dress has a noticeable >> flaw when compared to this corset. Her corset is too low. I would also have >> to say that she probably wears way too low on the hips as well. She is >> always complaining that it hurts her hip after a while. This is my >> conclusion after seeing Dorothea's corset and dress. The corset (and bodice) >> hit no lower than the top of the natural waist if not right at where the >> ribs end. (This also fits in with whatever thread that was mentioning women >> resting their elbows or arms or whatever on their dresses supported by >> farthingales). Since the bodice is high-necked, I can't make any statement >> as to whether this corset would also be used for low-necked bodices - a >> though we came up with. >> >> After this we surfed around quite a bit looking at Tudor and Elizabethian >> and other 16th century dresses (English, Spanish, French) portraits and >> noticed how high the fronts of the neck cutouts (as well as how far down the >> shoulders usually sit). In the majority of these portraits (the major >> exceptions being Italian), the bodices hit at the point on the chest I >> described above. We then looked at many examples of Tudor and Elizabethian >> and other 16th century dresses (English, Spanish, French) that have been >> made by people from all over the world and our conclusion is that about 95% >> of these costumes have the same flaw(s) Deredere's costume has. Everyone's >> corset (and bodice) sits probably - at least- 2 inches two low (at least) >> and also sits too low on the hips as well. The only portraits we saw had >> -no- little breast bubbles at the top. If the corset is high enough there >> can't be any. After I realized this I realized why so many of the wonderful >> costumes I had seen still bothered me the tiniest little bit... This is of >> course no comfort to those of us who are well endowed but are still trying >> to get that flat look - that I haven't yet figured out without at least some >> sort of shelf. Oh- a new thought - many of the portraits (but not all) have >> the woman sitting - maybe that makes a difference.... >> >> Cass :) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 11:39:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62FdMHP017006 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:39:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62FcKUw010908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:38:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62FcHHw019418; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:38:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62FcDHw019343 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:38:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip177.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.177]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D2656EFB5 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:38:08 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 08:36:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Message-ID: <3F029975.21517.3216517D@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <006501c340ad$2b6a9130$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Being a large-busted woman, when I wear 16th c. and my bust is > flattened up, I basically get a shelf effect. My question to you is, > then, should the corset and bodice go straight up past this shelf > point (basically leaving empty space behind the corset/bodice once > it's higher than the bust point)? I'd say absolutely not. Look at Lady Guildford: http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein21.html While the neckline is not so low that her nipples are going to pop out, neither is it so high that it doesn't at all times touch her skin. You can also see that she actually has some cleavage showing as a little line up between the chains of her necklace where it descend into her bodice. You can also see this on Holbein's wife: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/h/holbein/hans_y/1531/2family.html But what is different about her cleavage and Lady Guildford's is that they are not pushed *up* (as we so often see in modern ladies who are trying to "go Tudor") but just controlled. And if you have a less endowed lady, you would see that it just looked like a higher neckline. (Too many of the modern gals want to show off their chests rather than have an accurate outfit. That's fine with me, as long as they know it isn't actually what would have been worn in the period.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 11:49:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62FnnHP017022 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:49:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62FnMUw012503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:49:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62FnKHw028005; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:49:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h62FnHHw027971 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:49:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-118-213-37.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@67.118.213.37 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2003 15:49:15 -0000 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:49:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <006501c340ad$2b6a9130$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h62FnnHP017022 Status: RO I had an "ah-ha" moment on this a few months ago. I was attempting to make a supportive kirtle for a late 15th century/early Tudor gown and ran into the "shelf affect" which caused it to appear that my neckline was too low and my breasts too high: http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/1480s/kirtlecomparison.gif The picture on the left is the "before" shot and the one on the right is the "after" shot. It honestly took a man to point out to me what I was doing wrong, and had been doing "wrong" for years (thanks Ben, if you're on the list!). What it amounted to was that I was hoisting my breasts upward in my kirtle (and with my corsets) which gave the shelf look at top. What Ben suggested trying was *flattening* my bosom rather than hauling up. I guess a better way to describe it would be let the fabric compress my breasts without pulling them up so that they give me the TOAP look. In the second photo I've done just this and guess what? The neckline falls correctly and doesn't look too low! I still have a noticeable bit of cleavage at top, but that's the nature of the beasties. ;) Also, I should add that compressing the bosom is a lot less comfortable than hosting. It's a more restrictive feeling and even somewhat painful and takes some getting used to. Here's a mid-16th century bodice I'm working on that has the same principles: http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/frenchdress/side02.JPG http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/frenchdress/front02.JPG Sarah On Wednesday, July 2, 2003, at 08:18 AM, Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > Wow, this is really interesting! > > I found the Janet Arnold exhibit pics: > http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/arnold.html > > Looks like the toile (two bottom pictures) is what you're talking > about -- > the neckline would definitely come up past the bust point. > > There's a picture of the Pfaltzgrfin corset at: > http://costume.dm.net/corsets/images/pfaltzcors.gif > > Being a large-busted woman, when I wear 16th c. and my bust is > flattened up, > I basically get a shelf effect. My question to you is, then, should > the > corset and bodice go straight up past this shelf point (basically > leaving > empty space behind the corset/bodice once it's higher than the bust > point)? > > I do think I noticed something similar in the "Lady Jane" moving > costumes, > and I remember wondering why the bodices were all so ill-fitted! > > - Kendra > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 11:52:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62FqWHP017032 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:52:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62Fq0Uw012918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:52:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62FpwHw029920; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:51:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62FprHw029834 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:51:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-018scfairp0351.dialsprint.net ([63.183.177.97] helo=faucet.net) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Xjtf-0006LC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 08:51:52 -0700 Message-ID: <3F030D39.2050004@faucet.net> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 11:50:01 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cassandra--thanks so much for the detailed report! That was fascinating. Cassandra Greer wrote: > We noticed that the front (and the back) of the corset > was quite high. It would have hit Dorothea right at the point where the > bulge of the breastbone starts (I have no clue what the correct anatomical > designations are so bear with). About 2-2.5 inches (5-6 cm) below the hole > in your neck where you collar bones and your neck tendons meet the > breastbone. I agree that many people's re-created bodices are too low (and I completely agree with Drea about the "wench effect"), but I would like to point out that even in the 16th century there was quite a bit of variation. Here are several images of women with the center of their neckline perhaps 4 or 5 inches below the base of their neck. This is just a small random sampling across Tudor and Elizabethan: From Web Gallery of Art (http://gallery.euroweb.hu) drawing of the family of Sir Thomas More http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/2drawing/1530/11family.jpg Both Lady Mary Guildford (speaking of breast bubbles...) and the Lady with Squirrel on this page http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/h/holbein/hans_y/1528/index.html From Tudor and Elizabethan Portraits (http://www.tudor-portraits.com) Elizabeth's phoenix portrait http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth_13.jpg Ann Cresacre http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Anne%20Cresacre.jpg Holbein's Unknown Lady (front and back views, and hint of breast bubbles) http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Unknown%20Lady%20A.jpg another unknown lady http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Unknown%20Lady%20G.jpg Happy Surfing, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 12:05:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62G5DHP017046 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:05:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62G4mUw014536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:04:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62G4l0Q009263; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:04:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f11.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62G4i0Q009193 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:04:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:04:39 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.78 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 16:04:39 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.78] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 11:04:39 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jul 2003 16:04:39.0704 (UTC) FILETIME=[A457B180:01C340B3] Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan cap questions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a couple of somewhat strange questions. 1. I am looking for extant examples of of what I've seen referred to as a "Holbein" cap, or any other working and middle class hearwear from the late 1500s. 2. Anyone know how far back the use of the Monmouth Cap goes? Marc _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 12:09:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62G97HP017053 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:09:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62FK1Uw008578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62FK0Hw004443; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:20:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62FJuHw004388 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:19:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip177.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.177]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC21270253 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:19:52 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 08:10:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Message-ID: <3F029370.5949.31FECF2D@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-DCC-Misty-Metrics: net.indra.com 1170; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Everyone's corset (and bodice) sits > probably - at least- 2 inches two low (at least) and also sits too low > on the hips as well. The only portraits we saw had -no- little breast > bubbles at the top. If the corset is high enough there can't be any. As to the height of the corset, I think that it may vary depending on whether it is meant to go under a high necked gown (which would help smooth the front of the gown) or a low necked gown. In the Tudor gowns, the corset would show above the chemise if it were as high as you say this one was. Perhaps it is because of the lack of anatomical language, but on me that part of the breastbone which protrudes is above the level of the muscle points. And the Henry VIII period bodices definitely use that level as the top of their dresses. (The muscle point is that place where the muscles of the chest, specifically the pectoralis major, attach to the upper arm bone.) On me, if you drew a curve between the two muscle points (slightly arched upward in the center as in the H8 Tudor portraits) it would still be about 2" below the protrusion in my breastbone (which is only an inch below the neck notch at the top of my breastbone.) So it seems to me that a low necked gown would require a lower top on the corset. But I usually put it so that it is about 1", sometimes more, above the top of the brown part of the nipples (aka the areolar edge). Many people tend to put it so that the areolar edge is nearly showing. One slight movement and out they'd pop. (Not a pretty sight!) As to the lower edge of the corset, I have noticed that people try too hard to have that as low as possible. When I was taught corsetry, I was told that with the corset on, if you bend to the side as much as possible, it should not dig into the hip or the waist. It should not be sitting on the hipline at all. That would put the bottom of the corset at the lower edge of the ribcage and perhaps only a slight bit below, as you describe. Tudor corsets were not meant to constrict the waist, but to shape the bodice. (Unlike later corsets.) The tiny waists were an illusion made by the dip in the front of the bodice/corset. (Note: this isn't to say that some women didn't have tiny waists. They did, as in the case of Dorothea, who probably was a rather sickly woman from what I've been able to gather about her life.) Besides, the corsets which are cut too low on the sides cut into the hips and push up into the armpits. (Which is what always drove me crazy about the one on Helene Bonham Carter in Lady Jane. That thing did *not* fit her and it really showed whenever she slumped, which she did a lot.) I do believe that you are correct that many people doing Tudor era corsets are heavily influenced by the "needs" of later corsets to do things like constrict the waist and push the breasts into a more "wench" like position. > After I realized this I realized why so many of the wonderful costumes > I had seen still bothered me the tiniest little bit... This is of > course no comfort to those of us who are well endowed but are still > trying to get that flat look - that I haven't yet figured out without > at least some sort of shelf. Oh- a new thought - many of the portraits > (but not all) have the woman sitting - maybe that makes a > difference.... I don't think that sitting would help. In fact, sitting tends to push things up more than if you are standing erect. I do think that being well endowed makes the fit of the corset different than on someone without much bustline at all. I've noticed that on the women I've made corsets for who are less well endowed, I can easily put the corset much higher than on those who are C+ or larger. (And since I went from a A cup to a DD cup, it has certainly changed where I can put the top of my corset.) And it's not like they didn't have large women. Look at Lady Dacre, who was just plain big, and Lady Guildford, who has enough bustline to actually show cleavage. (She's one of the few I've seen who do.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 12:09:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62G9YHP017056 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:09:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62FIOUw008422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:18:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62FIMHw003470; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:18:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h62FIJHw003447 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:18:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-116-255-87.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.116.255.87 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2003 15:18:18 -0000 Message-ID: <006501c340ad$2b6a9130$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030702094534.J66380-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:18:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow, this is really interesting! I found the Janet Arnold exhibit pics: http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/arnold.html Looks like the toile (two bottom pictures) is what you're talking about -- the neckline would definitely come up past the bust point. There's a picture of the Pfaltzgrfin corset at: http://costume.dm.net/corsets/images/pfaltzcors.gif Being a large-busted woman, when I wear 16th c. and my bust is flattened up, I basically get a shelf effect. My question to you is, then, should the corset and bodice go straight up past this shelf point (basically leaving empty space behind the corset/bodice once it's higher than the bust point)? I do think I noticed something similar in the "Lady Jane" moving costumes, and I remember wondering why the bodices were all so ill-fitted! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 12:27:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62GRcHP017102 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:27:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62GP1WI016830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:27:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62GN60Q022270; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:23:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62GN20Q022145 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.146.149f56b4 (16112) for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:22:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-d19.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.135]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (v94.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID124-3ef03f0306de2fa; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:22:54 -0400 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:22:54 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: RE: [h-cost] Elizabethan cap questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <486C61B1.30DE0847.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Marc Carlson" wrote: >I have a couple of somewhat strange questions. > >1. I am looking for extant examples of of what I've seen referred to as a >"Holbein" cap, or any other working and middle class hearwear from the late >1500s. > >2. Anyone know how far back the use of the Monmouth Cap goes? do you mean the long stocking cap? Monmouth was a mecca for cappers long before that stocking cap, you may be interested in http://www.isca-morrismen.com/monmouth.htm which has several early extant pieces. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 13:00:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62H0DHP017179 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:00:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62GscUw020708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:54:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62Gsa0Q016987; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:54:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62GsW0Q016941 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:54:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19XksK-0005Sb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 09:54:32 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Elizabethan cap questions Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:54:33 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c340ba$9dbe3950$6601a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This will be an interesting topic Marc, I am looking forward to what others have to say about it. I think they will wonder a little about more specifics. It is a little confusing; Elizabethan from the 1500's? I am assuming women's headdress? Do you mean only English? Does a burger's income still mean middle class to you? The reason I ask is the BBC version of Henry the VIII did a pretty cool job of recreating the dress and headdress for Jane Seymour from Holbein's (or is it Durer? Someone will correct me if I have it mixed up) "Burger's Wife" I have captured images from the DVD and would be willing to send them to you if you are interested. Can you describe what the "Holbein Cap" means? I have lots of picture images of the bund caps and also some extant rolls that go underneath them. Sg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Marc Carlson Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 9:05 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan cap questions I have a couple of somewhat strange questions. 1. I am looking for extant examples of of what I've seen referred to as a "Holbein" cap, or any other working and middle class hearwear from the late 1500s. 2. Anyone know how far back the use of the Monmouth Cap goes? Marc _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 14:17:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62IH5HP017421 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:17:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62IG8Uw029983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:16:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62IG2no018639; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f28.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62IFxno018530 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:15:54 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.95 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 18:15:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.95] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Elizabethan cap questions Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 13:15:53 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jul 2003 18:15:54.0756 (UTC) FILETIME=[FA3D4440:01C340C5] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" >This will be an interesting topic Marc, I am looking forward to what >others have to say about it. I think they will wonder a little about >more specifics. It is a little confusing; Elizabethan from the 1500's? >I am assuming women's headdress? Do you mean only English? No, you're right, I should be more specific with my terminology on this. The cap I'm thinking of is generally a man's cap, although I certainly don't want to limit the discussion on that basis. Apparently it is also sometimes called a "flat cap" and is generally shown as being made from three circles of fabric, the bottom two with large concentric inner circles cut out. You can find a picture of a knitted version at http://www.qualitycaps.247e.info/pages/main/caps1.htm >Does a burger's income still mean middle class to you?... Absolutely. Marc _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 14:41:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62IfBHP017487 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:41:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62FMtUw008853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:22:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62FMrHw006465; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:22:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.179]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h62FMoHw006422 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:22:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-116-255-87.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.116.255.87 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2003 15:22:49 -0000 Message-ID: <000a01c340ad$ccacc360$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:22:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Yay! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just found out that I get to write the entries on fashion during World War I and World War II for the upcoming _Encyclopedia of the Home Front_! Yay! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 14:41:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62IfeHP017491 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:41:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62HDQUw022898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:13:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62HDOmu001495; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:13:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62HDKmu001450 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:13:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-001scfairp0359.dialsprint.net ([63.184.193.105] helo=faucet.net) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19XlAW-0006M2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 10:13:20 -0700 Message-ID: <3F032051.9020102@faucet.net> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 13:11:29 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan cap questions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc Carlson wrote: > I have a couple of somewhat strange questions. > > 1. I am looking for extant examples of of what I've seen referred to > as a "Holbein" cap, or any other working and middle class hearwear from > the late 1500s. Are you specifically looking for English examples? I'm not sure what a "Holbein" cap is, but there are some extant hats and caps in Textiler Hausrat by Jutta Zander-Seidel. They may all be too early for your purposes, but perhaps the styles didn't change as much in the lower classes as in the upper. I don't know what class it comes from, but on page 222 there's a picture of a knitted flat cap with a narrow brim labelled "Strickbarett. Wolle, 15./16. Jahrhundert" and also a fancier one below with fur? feathers? around it labelled "Barett des Christoph Kress von Kressenstein. Um 1530." There are a couple of earlier ones on page 130--another flat cap and one with earflaps, both knitted wool, but both "um 1500." There's also a high-crowned hat covered with fabric pleated into the hatband and a narrow brim labelled "Mannerhut. Um 1580" but again I don't know what class person wore it. Cheers, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 14:53:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62IrVHP017520 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:53:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62Ir6Uw004740 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:53:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62Ir4no017635; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:53:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62Iquno017441 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:52:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id r.29.43a10a94 (17228); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:52:44 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <29.43a10a94.2c3483fc@aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:52:44 EDT To: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 cc: elizabethanclothing@yahoogroups.com cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Started a New Dress Diary X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah, what the subject line says http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/lowclass.html -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 15:45:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62JjEHP017613 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:45:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62JiXUw011036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:44:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62JiTrb026970; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:44:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h62JiRrb026861 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:44:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCpceFrtArDXTA0w1yQm16z7LPEGvua5CQg==">; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:44:14 EDT Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H34XRN6H; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:44:14 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:49:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] date for mid-16th-century portrait? Message-ID: <20030702.144905.-471247.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-7,9-24 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO According to Jane AShelford's "Visual History of Costume- The Sixteenth Century" that portrait is of Mary I, and was painted by Hans Eworth between 1550-5. Hope that helps! Karen On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 10:16:38 -0500 Melanie Schuessler writes: > Greetings to all > > Can anyone give me a date for this portrait? > > http://infotrope.net/sca/textiles/costume/pemberton/blackmary.jpg > > Thanks, > Melanie Schuessler > http://www.faucet.net/costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 16:30:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62KU8HP017802 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 16:30:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62KTKUw016041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:29:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62KTH8C002759; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:29:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h62KTB8C002607 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:29:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 4976 invoked by uid 65534); 2 Jul 2003 20:29:04 -0000 Received: from p50801BA7.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.2.21]) (80.128.27.167) by mail.gmx.net (mp015) with SMTP; 02 Jul 2003 22:29:04 +0200 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:29:04 +0200 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations From: Cassandra Greer To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3F029370.5949.31FECF2D@localhost> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h62KTB8C002607 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmm let's see if I can get one big reply to all the replies so far :))) Kat's reply: > As to the height of the corset, I think that it may vary depending on > whether it is meant to go under a high necked gown (which would help > smooth the front of the gown) or a low necked gown. I think this definitely a possibility though we saw many low-necked gowns under which this type of corset would work nicely (most of them I think) > In the Tudor gowns, the corset would show above the chemise if it > were as high as you say this one was. Why would it do that if the chemise was tucked in properly? >Perhaps it is because of the > lack of anatomical language, but on me that part of the breastbone > which protrudes is above the level of the muscle points. >And the > Henry VIII period bodices definitely use that level as the top of > their dresses. (The muscle point is that place where the muscles of > the chest, specifically the pectoralis major, attach to the upper arm > bone.) On me, if you drew a curve between the two muscle points > (slightly arched upward in the center as in the H8 Tudor portraits) > it would still be about 2" below the protrusion in my breastbone > (which is only an inch below the neck notch at the top of my > breastbone.) I think we are talking about the same thing - but my vocab sucks here. >So it seems to me that a low necked gown would require a > lower top on the corset. But I usually put it so that it is about 1", > sometimes more, above the top of the brown part of the nipples (aka > the areolar edge). Many people tend to put it so that the areolar > edge is nearly showing. One slight movement and out they'd pop. (Not > a pretty sight!) Gee, your set point on me would have a large amount of cleavage showing (due to my ehem no longer young and definitely ample. But mine is higher and when I am squished properly sits (at the top) almost at the right point with only a minimal shelf. > As to the lower edge of the corset, I have noticed that people try > too hard to have that as low as possible. When I was taught corsetry, > I was told that with the corset on, if you bend to the side as much > as possible, it should not dig into the hip or the waist. It should > not be sitting on the hipline at all. That would put the bottom of > the corset at the lower edge of the ribcage and perhaps only a slight > bit below, as you describe. This is exactly what most people don't do (unfortunately!) I know know mine sits to low though thank goodness it never caused me problems and if I can modify it a bit maybe I can get it higher too. >Tudor corsets were not meant to constrict > the waist, but to shape the bodice. (Unlike later corsets.) The tiny > waists were an illusion made by the dip in the front of the > bodice/corset. (Note: this isn't to say that some women didn't have > tiny waists. They did, as in the case of Dorothea, who probably was a > rather sickly woman from what I've been able to gather about her > life.) When I say she was tiny - I meant all of her. I didn't find from looking at the dress or corset that her waist had been constricted really - as a matter of fact I think that the corset and bodice didn't get past the top part of her natural waistline. > Besides, the corsets which are cut too low on the sides cut into the > hips and push up into the armpits. (Which is what always drove me > crazy about the one on Helene Bonham Carter in Lady Jane. That thing > did *not* fit her and it really showed whenever she slumped, which > she did a lot.) I do remember her slouching a lot - I wonder how much real women slouched ;) or whether everyone (who wore these things) was so trained that they sloped their shoulders back like they were supposed to :))) or whether it was just the actress letting her unperiod bad posture show through. > I do believe that you are correct that many people doing Tudor era > corsets are heavily influenced by the "needs" of later corsets to do > things like constrict the waist and push the breasts into a more > "wench" like position. > > I don't think that sitting would help. In fact, sitting tends to push > things up more than if you are standing erect. I was thinking that it would maybe make the corset and therefore the bodice sit as I described... > And it's not like they didn't have large women. Look at Lady Dacre, > who was just plain big, and Lady Guildford, who has enough bustline > to actually show cleavage. (She's one of the few I've seen who do.) Yes I see - from all the links that have come in so far Thanks Kendra for these links >I found the Janet Arnold exhibit pics: > http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/arnold.html > > Looks like the toile (two bottom pictures) is what you're talking about -- > the neckline would definitely come up past the bust point. > > There's a picture of the Pfaltzgrfin corset at: > http://costume.dm.net/corsets/images/pfaltzcors.gif This picture seems to me like the bodice is sitting to low on the mannequin - at least according to what I think now: http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/arnold/arnold05.jpg > I had an "ah-ha" moment on this a few months ago. I was attempting to > make a supportive kirtle for a late 15th century/early Tudor gown and > ran into the "shelf affect" which caused it to appear that my neckline > was too low and my breasts too high: > > http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/1480s/kirtlecomparison.gif > > The picture on the left is the "before" shot and the one on the right > is the "after" shot. It honestly took a man to point out to me what I > was doing wrong, and had been doing "wrong" for years (thanks Ben, if > you're on the list!). > > What it amounted to was that I was hoisting my breasts upward in my > kirtle (and with my corsets) which gave the shelf look at top. What > Ben suggested trying was *flattening* my bosom rather than hauling up. > I guess a better way to describe it would be let the fabric compress my > breasts without pulling them up so that they give me the TOAP look. In > the second photo I've done just this and guess what? The neckline > falls correctly and doesn't look too low! I still have a noticeable > bit of cleavage at top, but that's the nature of the beasties. ;) > > Also, I should add that compressing the bosom is a lot less comfortable > than hosting. It's a more restrictive feeling and even somewhat > painful and takes some getting used to. I totally agree that smushing is less comfortable but I think this is because we are used to the 'lift and separate' tradition of these so many years. As for my corset, I think it is still salvageable if I can make the areas for arms larger and lower but otherwise when I wore it I did the smush thing because otherwise I think I would overflow. As it is with the smushing I still have a small but noticeable shelf and a cavity large enough to hide the crown jewels or at least the contents of the Schatzkammer at the Residenz in Munich (which we saw last Sunday - yummy!) Thanks Melanie for pointing these out: > > I agree that many people's re-created bodices are too low (and I > completely agree with Drea about the "wench effect"), but I would like > to point out that even in the 16th century there was quite a bit of > variation. Here are several images of women with the center of their > neckline perhaps 4 or 5 inches below the base of their neck. This is > just a small random sampling across Tudor and Elizabethan: > > From Web Gallery of Art (http://gallery.euroweb.hu) > drawing of the family of Sir Thomas More > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/2drawing/1530/11family.jpg Lady 1 (from the left) I find her neckline a bit low. Lady 2 is highnecked Lady 3 I think follows the hypothesis but from the side looks lower than it would from the front. Lady 4 I found a bit low Lady 5 I think if she were not so well endowed the top of the bodice would hit in the hypothesized area Lady 6 I find pretty much on the mark even though endowed though I think she is bending over slightly, which may have pushed the corset/bodice up a bit. > Both Lady Mary Guildford (speaking of breast bubbles...) and the Lady > with Squirrel on this page > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/h/holbein/hans_y/1528/index.html Yes indeed.. ;) > From Tudor and Elizabethan Portraits (http://www.tudor-portraits.com) > Elizabeth's phoenix portrait > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth_13.jpg I think Elizabeth may have had an ample amount up there ;) or it is just the artist > Ann Cresacre > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Anne%20Cresacre.jpg If find that this fits our description. It think if we could view it from the front it wouldn't seem as low. > Holbein's Unknown Lady (front and back views, and hint of breast > bubbles) http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Unknown%20Lady%20A.jpg Yes cleavage... > > another unknown lady > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Unknown%20Lady%20G.jpg I think this lady is quite endowed but without the 'bubble' marks, she looks a bit disformed (gee her waist seems really too narrow). But in the end if her breasts weren't so big I think her bodice would sit more as hypothesized. Variation is definitely to be expected - that is just how clothes and people are. However I think that the phenomenon we observed was the general desired effect and perhaps those pictures that show something different (lower neckline, etc) are due to larger breasts and maybe the artist. From the pictures I've seen so far, I spot a neckline that seems too low to me by looking where the corner (right or left) of the neckline sits. If it seems lower than the spot where the arm connects to the side than it is too low for what I -feel- was the desired effect from Tudor times to the beginning of the 17th century in Europe (not counting Italy and only the nobility). I also think (after thinking about it haha) that the curve of the top of the bodice we see so often (on the flat-chested examples) is at least partly an optical illusion resulting from the curvature of the chest and the habit of sloping the shoulders down and back which would tilt the rib cage forward and up, as well as bringing the hips forward and arching the small of the back (this being eccentuated by the curve of the back of the dress - bumrolled, padded or whatever.).... ' Which reminds me, Birgit said Dorothea's dress had a bum roll. Now I don't know if this was really a detachable roll or was padding (attached to the dress). Does it say anthing about this in Janet Arnold's book? (I have ordered them but they aren't here yet). Cass :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 16:32:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62KWUHP017807 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 16:32:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62KW4Uw016407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:32:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62KW38C004996; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:32:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62KW08C004950 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-018scfairp0096.dialsprint.net ([63.183.176.96] helo=faucet.net) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19XoGm-0007Ls-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 13:32:00 -0700 Message-ID: <3F034EE1.6000405@faucet.net> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 16:30:09 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] date for mid-16th-century portrait? References: <20030702.144905.-471247.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > According to Jane AShelford's "Visual History of Costume- The Sixteenth > Century" that portrait is of Mary I, and was painted by Hans Eworth > between 1550-5. > > Hope that helps! Thanks, Karen. I found that soon after I sent the query in, but I was hoping someone had a single year. Oh well. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 16:37:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62KbmHP017827 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 16:37:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62KbHUw016982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:37:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62KbG8C008872; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:37:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62KbD8C008842 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:37:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-018scfairp0096.dialsprint.net ([63.183.176.96] helo=faucet.net) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19XoLp-0000KO-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 13:37:13 -0700 Message-ID: <3F03501A.7000804@faucet.net> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 16:35:22 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan cap questions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc Carlson wrote: > You can find a picture of a knitted version at > http://www.qualitycaps.247e.info/pages/main/caps1.htm What a great source! In that case, the caps in Textiler Hausrat that I mentioned are: page 222 possibly a Holbein cap, but there is no visible split in the brim; page 130 definitely a Holbein cap and below it a Breughel, but without the turn-up at the front and with longer ear-flap extensions just at the sides. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 18:14:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62MEtHP018258 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 18:14:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62MERUw001333 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 16:14:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62MEOoW003616; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 16:14:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from topcat.systemsfirm.net (pcp822591pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [68.49.41.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62MEJoW003459 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 16:14:20 -0600 (MDT) content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 18:14:16 -0400 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: 16th c. women's necklines Thread-Index: AcNA50WITltUWb3jTJ2GD2/FaffTXg== From: "A.Thurman" To: "Historic Costume List (E-mail)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h62MEJoW003459 Subject: [h-cost] 16th c. women's necklines X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been reading this with great interest. When I made my middle class Tudor (photos at photos.yahoo.com/anotherthurman; you have to navigate to the "Costume Projects/Historical" costume folder), I always thought it was too high, but left it because I didn't want to expose myself excessively. And though I always tried to shove the stays downwards they always crept back upwards. Now I know it's supposed to do that! Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 20:09:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6309bHP018646 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:09:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63099Uw021109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 18:09:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63097Nl012843; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 18:09:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63075Nl011284 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 18:07:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.237.147]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HHF0057O9NR0U@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 17:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 17:06:06 -0700 From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030702164213.00e22740@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <3F029370.5949.31FECF2D@localhost> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > As to the lower edge of the corset, I have noticed that people try > > too hard to have that as low as possible. When I was taught corsetry, > > I was told that with the corset on, if you bend to the side as much > > as possible, it should not dig into the hip or the waist. It should > > not be sitting on the hipline at all. That would put the bottom of > > the corset at the lower edge of the ribcage and perhaps only a slight > > bit below, as you describe. >This is exactly what most people don't do (unfortunately!) I know know mine >sits to low though thank goodness it never caused me problems and if I can >modify it a bit maybe I can get it higher too. I'm surprised that you think most people put the waist too low. I have always been somewhat overweight, and find corsets/bodices sit better if their waists are somewhat above my actual waist. I also put bodice/corset waists there for the people I do fittings for, and they don't complain later about the corset/bodice trying to shift upwards, away from the skirt, during the day. This may be a Ren. Faire thing, but I can bend over much better if the waist of the corset/bodice is higher. I tend to put it right at the bottom of the rib cage, as that's the top of a roll of extra me which doesn't like to be compressed. This makes my skirt a little longer, but my skirt doesn't mind sitting on top of that roll of extra me either. (I'm 5'6", and making my legs look longer is always a plus.) If I want the bodice waistline pointed in front, I make it so, and this point helps deal with my tummy which doesn't mind being compressed in front. I find many Italian examples of this higher waist and longer skirt combination in period illos of women who look like they weigh as much as I do. Vecellio has lots of these. The same trick works very well for mid-Victorian too, with their similar large skirts and bodices with pointed waists and low necklines. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 20:38:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h630cLHP018736 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:38:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h630blUw025830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 18:37:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h630bbNl004279; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 18:37:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h630bNNl004102 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 18:37:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p118-nas10.akl.ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz) [203.173.212.118] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19Xs6D-0003rg-00; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:37:21 +1200 Message-ID: <3F037AB7.9030902@ihug.co.nz> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:37:11 +1200 From: michaela User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Also, I should add that compressing the bosom is a lot less comfortable > than hosting. It's a more restrictive feeling and even somewhat painful > and takes some getting used to. I have to admit it was quite uncomfortable in my black kirtle of my burgundian: http://costumes.glittersweet.com/burgundian.htm I am not excessively compressed either, this is what happens to an A cup;) The real reason it's not comfortable is because the pressure is coming *down* rather than actually having support. Now I thought this was a fault in my design, but I don't think so. I think it's just a matter of adjusting properly while lacing. Actually it may even be a tad too loose at the top, which allows things to shift down over time. Breast health is far more imoportant to me than getting the correct shape btw, and so I'd rather have equal pressure on all parts rather than essentially folding my breasts down to my chest. I don't need to be pulled out of shape any more thankyouverymuch. So I just wanted to warn people that if it's uncomfortable it's not necessarily a good thing;) Lots of things are uncomfortable, some are fine, some can be harmful. Just as we have to learn to walk in period shoes, so we have to learn how to wear our support. Surely what's needed is essentially a pull directly in, rather than a pull down feeling? If you pull down the bust becomes much lower. And while no the women didn't have bosoms up around their ears, neither did they appear to be pushed down. michaela http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 21:47:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h631lfHP018832 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:47:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h631lHUw008291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 19:47:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h631lENd029440; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 19:47:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h631lANd029384 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 19:47:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00612 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:11:18 -0500 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:11:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations In-Reply-To: <3F037AB7.9030902@ihug.co.nz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, michaela wrote: > The real reason it's not comfortable is because the pressure is coming > *down* rather than actually having support ... > Surely what's needed is essentially a pull directly in, rather than a > pull down feeling? If you pull down the bust becomes much lower. And > while no the women didn't have bosoms up around their ears, neither did > they appear to be pushed down. Perhaps the trick I use for fitting (and dressing in) a 14th c. fitted dress will work here: Lie down. The breast mass falls directly against the body and spreads out, and it's fairly easy to manipulate what remains of the protrusion to the desired level without "folding" in either direction. I fit the dresses this way, and the wearer also lies down while lacing in. You know you have it right when the breasts don't move when you stand up. They're fairly evenly compressed, and the result is a gentle swell rather than a shelf in either direction. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 22:12:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h632CvHP018882 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 22:12:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h632CWUw012056 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:12:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h632CULw016603; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:12:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h632CQLx016544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:12:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (acty3094.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.248.94]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h632CSoW004117 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 22:12:29 -0400 Message-ID: <3F039060.6030509@dandy.net> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:09:36 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan cap questions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Marc. There are numerous examples of the "Tudor Flat Cap" extant in both knitted and cut cloth versions. Janet Arnold in her earlier period "Patterns" book shows cut ones. and there have been knitted ones recovered from the Baltic Sea (in a Venetian trade ship's chest), Scotland (Mairead Dunleavy and Richard Rutt's books both show them), London (City Museum) and, I believe, Germany. Other middle class headwear can include, but is not limited to, felted caps with a variety of brim sizes (also seen in Dunleavy and in the MoL). and knit brimless and folded brim caps which would later, in the mid-17th Cent., become known as Monmouth caps (due to the center of their trade and manufacture, Monmouth and the surrounding areas). Also for seamen, there was the ubiquitous Thrum Cap, which was a version of the "Monmouth" with tufts of wool (thrums) hooked into the knit. I have a great deal of information on the variety of these caps, as my wife and I have been experimenting with various styles (she knits, and I full and felt, then block the pieces). She has, so far, created brimmed and brimless knitted bonnets, skullcaps, "acorn" style (15th Cent.) caps, Monmouth caps, Thrum Caps, 15th Cent. style rolled brim caps, and the large, so-called "Peter the Great" 1 lb. Monmouth (made with 1 lb of wool) which greatly resembles the hat worn by the man on pg. 32 (pic. #219) of JA's PoF. I would be glad to share our info with you if you would like to send me a note at mikes@dandy.net I will be glad to cite the references and give you any assistance. Cheers, Mike T. Marc Carlson wrote: > I have a couple of somewhat strange questions. > > 1. I am looking for extant examples of of what I've seen referred to > as a "Holbein" cap, or any other working and middle class hearwear > from the late 1500s. > > 2. Anyone know how far back the use of the Monmouth Cap goes? > > Marc > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 22:36:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h632aZHP018947 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 22:36:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h632ZsUw014959 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:35:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h632ZqLw001750; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:35:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h632ZlLw001631 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:35:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.bc.3a915488 (4312) for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 22:35:38 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 22:35:37 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/2/2003 8:48:10 PM Central Standard Time, robin@shell.nightowl.net writes: > Perhaps the trick I use for fitting (and dressing in) a 14th c. fitted > dress will work here: Lie down. The breast mass falls directly against the > body and spreads out, and it's fairly easy to manipulate what remains of > the protrusion to the desired level without "folding" in either direction. > I fit the dresses this way, and the wearer also lies down while lacing in. > You know you have it right when the breasts don't move when you stand up. > They're fairly evenly compressed, and the result is a gentle swell rather > than a shelf in either direction. > Got any cool tricks for someone with itty-bitty and breastfeeding ravaged boobs? Actually, now that I think about it...I always make my corset and bodices pretty high because the only "shelf" I would get would look like two tiny sharpei puppies trying to escape. -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 22:57:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h632v3HP018986 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 22:57:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h632uIUw018273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:56:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h632uGuQ015899; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:56:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h632uBuQ015860 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:56:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h632uBSH024481 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 19:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.103] (tnt-1-167.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.103]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h632txjP024022 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 19:56:09 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:53:08 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan cap questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:04 AM -0500 7/2/03, Marc Carlson wrote: >I have a couple of somewhat strange questions. > >1. I am looking for extant examples of of what I've seen referred >to as a "Holbein" cap, or any other working and middle class >hearwear from the late 1500s. > >2. Anyone know how far back the use of the Monmouth Cap goes? There's a very useful article on the history of the Monmouth cap: Buckland, Kirstie. 1979. "Monmouth Cap" in Costume: 13:23-37. From what I remember of the article, part of the issue involved in "how far back" is going to depend on what version of the cap you have in mind, since it evolved in style over the years while keeping the same name. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 2 23:55:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h633tdHP019075 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:55:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h633r7Uw027141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:53:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h633r5uQ025726; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:53:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h633qxuQ025656 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:53:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Xv9T-0000q8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:52:55 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:52:57 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01c34116$98618640$6601a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Got any cool tricks for someone with itty-bitty and breastfeeding ravaged boobs? You won't like this, but you could gain some weight! I know what you mean though I've never breast fed and normally am a 36 b cup. When I get down to a comfortable weight, mine look just like you described. I have told my self when I loose the weight I want to I will get a boobie tuck! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 00:02:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6342SHP019086 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:02:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63421Uw028633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 22:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6341ubF002219; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 22:01:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f53.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.53]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6341pbF002108 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 22:01:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:01:45 -0700 Received: from 129.244.252.50 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 04:01:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.252.50] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan cap questions Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 23:01:45 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jul 2003 04:01:45.0807 (UTC) FILETIME=[D1E5FDF0:01C34117] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: michael tartaglio >Hi, Marc. There are numerous examples of the "Tudor Flat Cap" extant in >both knitted and cut cloth versions. Janet Arnold in her earlier period >"Patterns" book shows cut ones... Thank you, I -knew- I'd seen them someplace. I'll drop you a note off list shortly Marc _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 00:39:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h634dUHP019115 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:39:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h634ctUw004432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 22:38:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h634ceOU028141; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 22:38:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f6.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h634cSOU027955 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 22:38:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:38:23 -0700 Received: from 129.244.252.50 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 04:38:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.252.50] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan cap questions Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 23:38:22 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jul 2003 04:38:23.0155 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF9EB030:01C3411C] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Heather Rose Jones >There's a very useful article on the history of the Monmouth cap: >Buckland, Kirstie. 1979. "Monmouth Cap" in Costume: 13:23-37. Thank you Ma'am. I'll see if I can't track that down. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 01:31:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h635VNHP019173 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 01:31:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h635UpUw011566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:30:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h635Uhg9029745; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:30:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h635Uag9029644 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:30:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-001scfairp0242.dialsprint.net ([63.184.192.242] helo=faucet.net) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Xwfz-0005TO-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:30:35 -0700 Message-ID: <3F03CD1B.7010100@faucet.net> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 01:28:43 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cassandra Greer wrote: >>From Tudor and Elizabethan Portraits (http://www.tudor-portraits.com) >>Elizabeth's phoenix portrait >>http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth_13.jpg > > I think Elizabeth may have had an ample amount up there ;) or it is just the > artist It must have been the artist, because Elizabeth was famously slender, not known to have been well-endowed at all. Or it could be that this dress is just cut lower. Though I agree with you that there are some examples where the center of the neckline rests perhaps 3" below the base of the neck, others are clearly 4" or 5" down. It seems that there was an acceptable range which was not dependent on bust size. > From Web Gallery of Art (http://gallery.euroweb.hu) >> drawing of the family of Sir Thomas More >> http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/2drawing/1530/11family.jpg > > Lady 1 (from the left) I find her neckline a bit low. That's as may be, but my point is that a neckline that low was obviously acceptable to the people who were wearing it. >>Ann Cresacre >>http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Anne%20Cresacre.jpg > > If find that this fits our description. It think if we could view it from > the front it wouldn't seem as low. Why would it look different from the front? Just curious. If you look at it using proportions, the distance from the base of her neck to the middle of her neckline (the dress, that is, not the chemise) is the same as the distance from her eyebrows to her chin, which on most people is more than four inches. > I also think (after thinking about it haha) that the curve of the top of the > bodice we see so often (on the flat-chested examples) is at least partly an > optical illusion The curved neckline was a desirable fashion trait, cut into the bodice on purpose, at least according to Janet Arnold in both Patterns of Fashion and QEWU. You can also see it in period pattern books such as Alcega's. Thanks for the interesting discussion! Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 02:49:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h636nwHP005336 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 02:49:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h636lTUw022186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:47:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h636lOvh017720; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:47:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h636klvh017343 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:46:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip13.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.13]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A42306A7BA for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:46:45 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 23:44:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Message-ID: <3F036E60.7373.35560830@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3F037AB7.9030902@ihug.co.nz> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The real reason it's not comfortable is because the pressure is coming > *down* rather than actually having support. Now I thought this was a > fault in my design, but I don't think so. I think it's just a matter > of adjusting properly while lacing. Actually it may even be a tad too > loose at the top, which allows things to shift down over time. It shouldn't push up or down, nor should it be too constrictive (althugh they do look more compressed.) > Breast health is far more imoportant to me than getting the correct > shape btw, and so I'd rather have equal pressure on all parts rather > than essentially folding my breasts down to my chest. I don't need to > be pulled out of shape any more thankyouverymuch. Frankly, a Tudor or Elizabethan corset is better for breast health than a bra, especially an underwire bra. There have been studies recently showing that modern bras tend to cut off the lymph flow from the breasts so that they are not "cleansed" the way they should be. It's been postulated that this is contributing to the rise in breast cancer. (I'd give you the references, but since they weren't pediatric related, I didn't keep them after I read them in the journals.) > So I just wanted to warn people that if it's uncomfortable it's not > necessarily a good thing;) Lots of things are uncomfortable, some are > fine, some can be harmful. Just as we have to learn to walk in period > shoes, so we have to learn how to wear our support. An Elizabethan or Tudor corset should not be uncomfortable. It should support you properly. If it's not properly constructed, it will hurt like the dickens. Also, if it is not boned properly it will also hurt. People think that you need to use 1/2" stays for big women. However, I've corseted women with 56G/H breasts and had them comfortable only using 1/4" stays. But the stays have to be next to each other like you see in the Grafina Dorothea corset or Elizabeth I's corset, not placed as if they were only in every other bone case like you see with more modern corsets and many theatrical corsets. > Surely what's needed is essentially a pull directly in, rather than a > pull down feeling? If you pull down the bust becomes much lower. And > while no the women didn't have bosoms up around their ears, neither > did they appear to be pushed down. Exactly. If you look at the portraits, the women don't look like they've moved their "girls" into odd positions (either up or down). They're gently held in place. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 02:49:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h636nwHP005337 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 02:49:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h636ktUw022116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:46:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h636knvh017367; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:46:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h636khvh017303 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:46:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip13.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.13]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 391856A7BA for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:46:41 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 23:44:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Message-ID: <3F036E61.27124.35560A72@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <3F029370.5949.31FECF2D@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > In the Tudor gowns, the corset would show above the chemise if it > > were as high as you say this one was. > Why would it do that if the chemise was tucked in properly? It just seems like the top of the corset would be higher than the area where I generally see the top of the chemise. (Possibly due to having trouble visualizing exactly where your line is.) > >So it seems to me that a low necked gown would require a > > lower top on the corset. But I usually put it so that it is about > > 1", sometimes more, above the top of the brown part of the nipples > > (aka the areolar edge). Many people tend to put it so that the > > areolar edge is nearly showing. One slight movement and out they'd > > pop. (Not a pretty sight!) > Gee, your set point on me would have a large amount of cleavage > showing (due to my ehem no longer young and definitely ample. But mine > is higher and when I am squished properly sits (at the top) almost at > the right point with only a minimal shelf. That 1" is not the maximum. From your description, you'd probably have much more than 1" from the edge of the areola to the top of the corset. (I'm a DD and mine is about 1 1/2". Some I've done have had more. None are less than !".) My actual point was that most women seem to put that edge right at the edge of the areola. It doesn't look period to me either, and it certainly has what William Theiss used to refer to regarding his titillation theory. > > As to the lower edge of the corset, I have noticed that people try > > too hard to have that as low as possible. When I was taught > > corsetry, I was told that with the corset on, if you bend to the > > side as much as possible, it should not dig into the hip or the > > waist. It should not be sitting on the hipline at all. That would > > put the bottom of the corset at the lower edge of the ribcage and > > perhaps only a slight bit below, as you describe. > This is exactly what most people don't do (unfortunately!) I know know > mine sits to low though thank goodness it never caused me problems and > if I can modify it a bit maybe I can get it higher too. Good luck. I *hate* doing alterations. I'd ratehr make an entirely new corset (and that's saying a lot.) > > Besides, the corsets which are cut too low on the sides cut into the > > hips and push up into the armpits. (Which is what always drove me > > crazy about the one on Helene Bonham Carter in Lady Jane. That thing > > did *not* fit her and it really showed whenever she slumped, which > > she did a lot.) > I do remember her slouching a lot - I wonder how much real women > slouched ;) or whether everyone (who wore these things) was so trained > that they sloped their shoulders back like they were supposed to :))) > or whether it was just the actress letting her unperiod bad posture > show through. I wondered about that when I saw the movie. However, I can certainly slouch in my corsets (as well as do silly things like forward rolls) but it doesn't push up into my armpits or give me a funny empty space above the breasts like HB Carter had. > > I don't think that sitting would help. In fact, sitting tends to > > push things up more than if you are standing erect. > I was thinking that it would maybe make the corset and therefore the > bodice sit as I described... You can try it, but I really don't think that you'd get that effect. If anything I think you'd get the opposite effect. > > another unknown lady > > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Unknown%20Lady%20G.jpg > I think this lady is quite endowed but without the 'bubble' marks, she > looks a bit disformed (gee her waist seems really too narrow). But in > the end if her breasts weren't so big I think her bodice would sit > more as hypothesized. Ouch. She does look deformed. Of course, her chemise/partlet hides what cleavage she would have. In some ways it almost looks like parts of it have been repainted. (Nice gloves. I'll have to bookmark this pic!) > Variation is definitely to be expected - that is just how clothes and > people are. However I think that the phenomenon we observed was the > general desired effect and perhaps those pictures that show something > different (lower neckline, etc) are due to larger breasts and maybe > the artist. From the pictures I've seen so far, I spot a neckline that > seems too low to me by looking where the corner (right or left) of the > neckline sits. If it seems lower than the spot where the arm connects > to the side than it is too low for what I -feel- was the desired > effect from Tudor times to the beginning of the 17th century in Europe > (not counting Italy and only the nobility). Yep. That's the way I've thought they should look: no lower than the front muscle points. > > I also think (after thinking about it haha) that the curve of the top > of the bodice we see so often (on the flat-chested examples) is at > least partly an optical illusion resulting from the curvature of the > chest and the habit of sloping the shoulders down and back which would > tilt the rib cage forward and up, as well as bringing the hips forward > and arching the small of the back (this being eccentuated by the curve > of the back of the dress - bumrolled, padded or whatever.).... ' Which > reminds me, Birgit said Dorothea's dress had a bum roll. Now I don't > know if this was really a detachable roll or was padding (attached to > the dress). Does it say anthing about this in Janet Arnold's book? (I > have ordered them but they aren't here yet). JA's book (Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620) which has the dress and corset in it do not mention a bum roll. Too bad. I know that there are a lot of people who would like to see a real one! Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 07:47:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63Bl7HP022722 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 07:47:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63BkLUw002435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 05:46:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63BkHt5014032; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 05:46:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h63BkDt5013966 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 05:46:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 19315 invoked by uid 65534); 3 Jul 2003 11:46:08 -0000 Received: from pD9E4FD4B.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.2.21]) (217.228.253.75) by mail.gmx.net (mp026) with SMTP; 03 Jul 2003 13:46:08 +0200 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 13:46:06 +0200 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations From: Cassandra Greer To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3F037AB7.9030902@ihug.co.nz> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gee, don't pull them down! I squish them flat -it's uncomfortable but not -that- uncomfortable! There is no pressure down except for normal gravity and the horizontal pressure of the corset. I think what Robin says in the her post is on target. Cass :) >> Also, I should add that compressing the bosom is a lot less comfortable >> than hosting. It's a more restrictive feeling and even somewhat painful >> and takes some getting used to. > > I have to admit it was quite uncomfortable in my black kirtle of my > burgundian: > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/burgundian.htm > > I am not excessively compressed either, this is what happens to an A cup;) > > The real reason it's not comfortable is because the pressure is coming > *down* rather than actually having support. Now I thought this was a > fault in my design, but I don't think so. I think it's just a matter of > adjusting properly while lacing. Actually it may even be a tad too loose > at the top, which allows things to shift down over time. > > Breast health is far more imoportant to me than getting the correct > shape btw, and so I'd rather have equal pressure on all parts rather > than essentially folding my breasts down to my chest. I don't need to be > pulled out of shape any more thankyouverymuch. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 08:17:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63CHRHP022824 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:17:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63CH3Uw006052 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:17:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63CH1Xx002056; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h63CGrXx001931 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:16:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 26326 invoked by uid 65534); 3 Jul 2003 12:16:47 -0000 Received: from pD9E4FD4B.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.2.21]) (217.228.253.75) by mail.gmx.net (mp003) with SMTP; 03 Jul 2003 14:16:47 +0200 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 14:16:46 +0200 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations From: Cassandra Greer To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3F03CD1B.7010100@faucet.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Melanie wrote: > It must have been the artist, because Elizabeth was famously slender, > not known to have been well-endowed at all. Or it could be that this > dress is just cut lower. Though I agree with you that there are some > examples where the center of the neckline rests perhaps 3" below the > base of the neck, others are clearly 4" or 5" down. It seems that there > was an acceptable range which was not dependent on bust size. I do not disagree that there is an 'acceptable range' but I hypothesize that there is also a desirable target - this was also most likely subconscious in the society of the time. So far (in my 36 hours of thinking about this) I think it has not been noticed in modern times either - unless some of you more well-read researchers out there can point me in the direction of literature on the topic? This kind of reminds me of the studies I read eons ago about aesthetic factors/details that make a human face attractive. Researchers figured out that there are certain geometric parameters (i.e. ranges) that got the 'most attractive' responses along with a bit of asynchronicity (because people who look too perfect went down a bit on the scale). (And now plastic surgery clinics are milking this for all it is worth). In this case it is like wearing jeans, all of us look a particular way wearing jeans (if we wear them of course ;), yet no matter what we look like in them, they are acceptable wear. Nevertheless there are people who, when they wear jeans, receive wow responses from many people. I have developed this feeling of where I think the optimal spot is for a corset/bodice to sit on the body for this particular style. I developed it after seeing many portraits. Of course there were some that didn't fit the ideal that my brain came up with, but the majority did and so the ones that didn't jump out at me as not quite being there. > >> From Web Gallery of Art (http://gallery.euroweb.hu) >>> drawing of the family of Sir Thomas More >>> http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/2drawing/1530/11family.jpg >> >> Lady 1 (from the left) I find her neckline a bit low. > > That's as may be, but my point is that a neckline that low was obviously > acceptable to the people who were wearing it. > >>> Ann Cresacre >>> http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Anne%20Cresacre.jpg >> >> If find that this fits our description. It think if we could view it from >> the front it wouldn't seem as low. > > Why would it look different from the front? Just curious. If you look > at it using proportions, the distance from the base of her neck to the > middle of her neckline (the dress, that is, not the chemise) is the same > as the distance from her eyebrows to her chin, which on most people is > more than four inches. Mmm I am not in agreement with the calculations of these proportions. Just by taking a ruler and placing it on my monitor: From her eyebrow (arch - on her left) vertically to the plane of her chin, I measure 3.1 cm. If I measure from the top of the bodice (the line between the chemise and the line below), 3.1 cm goes quite a bit further than the base of her neck. As for why it I think it would look different is because from the side we see how low it looks at the corners near the arms, but the posture and the bodice curving around the chest make that part seem higher a bit. >> I also think (after thinking about it haha) that the curve of the top of the >> bodice we see so often (on the flat-chested examples) is at least partly an >> optical illusion > > The curved neckline was a desirable fashion trait, cut into the bodice > on purpose, at least according to Janet Arnold in both Patterns of > Fashion and QEWU. You can also see it in period pattern books such as > Alcega's. I don't know about what J. Arnold says yet - the books are coming! Cass :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 08:19:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63CJNHP022834 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:19:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63CIxUw006222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:19:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63CIwXx002941; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:18:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h63CItXx002877 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:18:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWtEKlvHGLYDv0sOIBuCVmOUGc5rOJ4h7Zw==">; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 05:18:41 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H36QNKR6; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 05:18:41 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:17:33 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Message-ID: <20030703.081733.-358321.1.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-10 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I made my Elizabethan corset from Margo's pattern. And wore it for almost a week at an event. I was walking around on asphalt and cement for from seven to twelve hours and at the end of the day my feet and legs were killing me, but my back (that normally aches) was not at all painful. As far as the bust goes, I do tend to the squash flat method and the corset was actually more comfortable than any bra I have ever owned. It doesn't seem reasonable, but there it is. I love mine and would wear it daily if it weren't so hot and so damned hard to get into. And it does give an odd shape for T-shirt and jeans. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 08:20:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63CKkHP022837 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:20:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63CKLUw006316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:20:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63CKIXx003588; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:20:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h63CKDXx003507 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:20:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 11658 invoked by uid 65534); 3 Jul 2003 12:20:07 -0000 Received: from pD9E4FD4B.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.2.21]) (217.228.253.75) by mail.gmx.net (mp026) with SMTP; 03 Jul 2003 14:20:07 +0200 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 14:20:06 +0200 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations From: Cassandra Greer To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3F036E60.7373.35560830@localhost> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Another interesting detail about this corset is that there is no boning where the breasts sit. The breasts would only get the pressure of the fabric. There is also no boning on the sides and only minimal in the back. Cass :) >> The real reason it's not comfortable is because the pressure is coming >> *down* rather than actually having support. Now I thought this was a >> fault in my design, but I don't think so. I think it's just a matter >> of adjusting properly while lacing. Actually it may even be a tad too >> loose at the top, which allows things to shift down over time. > > It shouldn't push up or down, nor should it be too constrictive > (althugh they do look more compressed.) > >> Breast health is far more imoportant to me than getting the correct >> shape btw, and so I'd rather have equal pressure on all parts rather >> than essentially folding my breasts down to my chest. I don't need to >> be pulled out of shape any more thankyouverymuch. > > Frankly, a Tudor or Elizabethan corset is better for breast health > than a bra, especially an underwire bra. There have been studies > recently showing that modern bras tend to cut off the lymph flow from > the breasts so that they are not "cleansed" the way they should be. > It's been postulated that this is contributing to the rise in breast > cancer. (I'd give you the references, but since they weren't > pediatric related, I didn't keep them after I read them in the > journals.) > >> So I just wanted to warn people that if it's uncomfortable it's not >> necessarily a good thing;) Lots of things are uncomfortable, some are >> fine, some can be harmful. Just as we have to learn to walk in period >> shoes, so we have to learn how to wear our support. > > An Elizabethan or Tudor corset should not be uncomfortable. It should > support you properly. If it's not properly constructed, it will hurt > like the dickens. Also, if it is not boned properly it will also > hurt. > > People think that you need to use 1/2" stays for big women. However, > I've corseted women with 56G/H breasts and had them comfortable only > using 1/4" stays. But the stays have to be next to each other like > you see in the Grafina Dorothea corset or Elizabeth I's corset, not > placed as if they were only in every other bone case like you see > with more modern corsets and many theatrical corsets. > >> Surely what's needed is essentially a pull directly in, rather than a >> pull down feeling? If you pull down the bust becomes much lower. And >> while no the women didn't have bosoms up around their ears, neither >> did they appear to be pushed down. > > Exactly. If you look at the portraits, the women don't look like > they've moved their "girls" into odd positions (either up or down). > They're gently held in place. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 08:24:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63COlHP022846 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:24:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63COLUw006860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:24:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63COHXx005757; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:24:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h63CODXx005655 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:24:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 23936 invoked by uid 65534); 3 Jul 2003 12:24:07 -0000 Received: from pD9E4FD4B.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.2.21]) (217.228.253.75) by mail.gmx.net (mp010) with SMTP; 03 Jul 2003 14:24:07 +0200 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 14:24:06 +0200 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations From: Cassandra Greer To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030703.081733.-358321.1.catpurson@juno.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mine is a variation of the corset generator corset. After I get used to the corset (it has warmed up and the broom has started to become more pliable), it is quite comfortable. I also slouch a lot and I find that wearing a corset is especially convenient when there is no back to your chair ;) Cass :) > I made my Elizabethan corset from Margo's pattern. And wore it > for almost a week at an event. I was walking around on asphalt and > cement for from seven to twelve hours and at the end of the day my feet > and legs were killing me, but my back (that normally aches) was not at > all painful. As far as the bust goes, I do tend to the squash flat > method and the corset was actually more comfortable than any bra I have > ever owned. It doesn't seem reasonable, but there it is. I love mine > and would wear it daily if it weren't so hot and so damned hard to get > into. And it does give an odd shape for T-shirt and jeans. > > Lalah > Never give up, Never surrender > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 08:51:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63CpvHP022918 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:51:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63CpVUw010600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:51:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63CpNXx022948; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:51:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63CpEXx022845 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:51:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03026 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:15:24 -0500 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:15:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations In-Reply-To: <3F036E61.27124.35560A72@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Unknown%20Lady%20G.jpg > > I think this lady is quite endowed but without the 'bubble' marks, she > > looks a bit disformed (gee her waist seems really too narrow). But in > > the end if her breasts weren't so big I think her bodice would sit > > more as hypothesized. > > Ouch. She does look deformed. Of course, her chemise/partlet hides > what cleavage she would have. In some ways it almost looks like parts > of it have been repainted. It screams "repainted" to me. Many portraits of this era have had heavy restoration, and it looks like we're seeing a later (as late as 19th century) hand in the shaping of the torso, parts of the face, possibly the whole background. The site creator gives no info on the picture or where he found it, just "An unknown lady. Formerly called Mary Queen of Scots by an unknown artist, c.1560." If it was out of, say, a Sotheby's catalog, it's anyone's guess who she was or how many hands were on this painting. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 09:57:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63DvJHP023107 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:57:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63DtTUw019308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 07:55:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63DtOYC004874; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 07:55:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [66.136.30.169]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63DtGYC004760 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 07:55:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from escom.antek [192.168.0.151] by web.antekhou.com (SMTPD32-8.00) id A5C19FC0148; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 08:55:13 -0500 Received: From 74w0d01 ([65.45.18.250]) by escom.antek (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 1057240511254; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:55:11 -0500 Message-ID: <003d01c34166$9c42d0c0$0764a8c0@algx> From: "Cyn Bucheger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:25:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In studying the issue of bust support through several eras, I noticed that it seemed that when the corset first came into use it was in Spain, England and France. Most areas of Italy and Germany tended not to use corsets until later 16 C, when everyone was wearing them. It may be just me, but when thinking of busty women, I'm more incline to start naming German or Italian women, not Spanish, English or French. Could this whole corset issue be because those that first started to wear and use corsets are genetically inclined to be smaller busted? And that's why we don't see a lot of shape in the English portraits of these eras? Or maybe I should spend some more time in the portraiture galleries... Cyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 10:47:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63ElgHP023247 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:47:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63EjuUw027269 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:45:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63Ejj0i013237; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:45:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt27.cluster1.charter.net (remt27.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63EjX0i013020 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:45:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [68.185.167.6] (HELO laptop) by remt27.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with SMTP id 80719955 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:45:26 -0400 Message-ID: <002b01c34171$933a7ea0$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030703.081733.-358321.1.catpurson@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:44:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I love mine > and would wear it daily if it weren't so hot and so damned hard to get > into. And it does give an odd shape for T-shirt and jeans. > > Lalah > Never give up, Never surrender AMEN! Although I have to see if I can take the sides in a bit on mine - I seem to have dropped some weight since first constructing it (in one sense - YAY; in another - grrrr ;-) I have also pondered a bit the thought of a sports corset. My husband and I are starting to run, and I commented that my corset certainly holds me better than any sports bra I have worn (now I have not sprung for the $40+ bras, so I don't know how they would work). And that just naturally led to "how would I make a corset that was sports-proof?" Would steel boning work, or would I need some other, lighter material? What about fabric - CoolMax corsets? And of course, how would it be marketed? I can't see a whole lot of women being excited about wearing a *corset* to exercise in! Any thoughts? (gee, maybe I *should* look at some sort of patent on this!) ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 10:55:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63EteHP023289 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:55:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63EruUw028503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:53:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63Ers0i019637; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:53:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu (kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu [169.147.166.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63Ero0i019587 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:53:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:53:49 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:53:40 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Corset Comfort X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Finally caught up on the digests from vacation and this is an ohsoapropro thread for me :). I have always found that when fitted right (whatever is comfortable for you) a corset is much more comfortable than my underwire and I can wear it all day. I have demoed bobbin lace at faire in my corset and hadn't had any pain in the back or shoulders from hunching over the pillow pretty much all day (bench butt, but no back pain :) ). A couple of weekends ago I finally was able to attend a 2-day lace workshop, doing pretty much the same thing and Oy, did my back and upper shoulders hurt! I had always wondered how those little old ladies in the postcards from Belgium had managed to do lace for all those years without ruining their posture, now I know :). Tip for adjusting 'the girls' from the 'madam' at our local renfaire (this is for the renfest cleveage but might help with others): take the flesh from under the arm and pull forward, then tuck the front/nipple down. I've had a fairly low neckline several times and never worried about falling out with a good fit and this method for 'adjusting'. Great discussion on the the 16thC corset at BayNat, thanks for the insights! Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 10:57:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63EviHP023299 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:57:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63Eu5Uw028862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:56:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63Etvbd021114; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:55:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu (kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu [169.147.166.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63Ethbd020956 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:55:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:55:43 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:55:30 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Washing linen X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Was wondering if anyone else had heard of this method for softening linen: wash it in Dawn. I have a bunch of linen to prewash and this was recommended to me. Anyone else try it? I have also been told that if you pre-soak a new swimsuit in a weak vineagar solution it will hold up a lot longer to the chlorine from the pool. Again, anyone have experience with this? Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 11:26:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63FQWHP023457 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:26:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63FOpUw003089 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:24:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63FOe0H013337; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:24:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63FOQ0H013103 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:24:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77D8C19FF70 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:24:20 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F044B65.7030103@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:27:33 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Back from vakation X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, STill tired and feel like my brains are fried but happy. The SCA event we went to was great! Here are some pictures http://www.deredere.dds.nl/DTYC/DTYC.html I still don't have nice pictures of me wearing te partlet :-[ And the picture of my dress isn't very flattering. I was tired and it was so hot that I decided not to wear my corset. Her are some pictures of my back http://www.skauma.org/bildarkiv/dynpage.cgi?last=1057166908&dir=/2003/dw10yc/frid-evn/P6204316.jpg http://www.skauma.org/bildarkiv/dynpage.cgi?last=1057166908&dir=/2003/dw10yc/frid-evn/P6204318.jpg There was no Arts and science contest but a display where I talked with some people over my dress. But too my supprise I've got an aword for all the work I put in making costumes. They made me a member of the Order of the Panache. :-) :-) :-) Order of the Panache The Panache is the awarded to those who have distinguished themselves by long and consistent excellence in the Arts (and Sciences) and who have also constantly made their expertise available to the various members of the Kingdom. The symbol of the Order is (Fieldless) issuant to chief from a torteau charged with a bezant pierced sable three feathers gules, Or and Sable. Unfortionally I had an exident with my dress. Someone had a pack of blackberry juse standing on the ground an kicked it over. So there were some purple stains on my dress :-( :-( . We tried to take it out by putting salt on the stains. The stains are almost gone. But making white silk satin wet with water already distrois the fabrick. Grrrr.... I now have so many ideas of what I want to make.... A hat where I can sow the Panache token on, New corset, Two different 16th century dresses, A Robe a la Francaise(bought Kyoto book)..... Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 11:27:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63FRXHP023462 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:27:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63FPfUw003260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:25:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63FPb0H014182; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:25:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63FOu0H013579 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:24:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-004scfairp0046.dialsprint.net ([63.184.224.46] helo=faucet.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Y5x8-0006Z6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 08:24:55 -0700 Message-ID: <3F045869.9010209@faucet.net> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:23:05 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: >>http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Unknown%20Lady%20G.jpg > > It screams "repainted" to me. Many portraits of this era have had heavy > restoration, and it looks like we're seeing a later (as late as 19th > century) hand in the shaping of the torso, parts of the face, possibly the > whole background. The site creator gives no info on the picture or where > he found it, just "An unknown lady. Formerly called Mary Queen of Scots > by an unknown artist, c.1560." If it was out of, say, a Sotheby's catalog, > it's anyone's guess who she was or how many hands were on this painting. It's from the National Portrait Gallery, also found in Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd, fig. 242 (though Arnold dates it to 1575-80). The NPG site has this to say: NPG 96 Unknown woman, formerly known as Mary, Queen of Scots by Unknown artist Date: circa 1560 Medium: oil on canvas Measurements: 37 7/8 in. x 27 5/8 in. (962 mm x 702 mm) Primary Collection On display at Montacute House This portrait was originally acquired by the Gallery from a private owner who believed it to be of Mary, Queen of Scots. Despite the fact that the portrait includes many symbols connected with Mary subsequent examination revealed that the portrait had been much repainted. By 1888 it was thought to be of Mary's mother, Mary of Lorraine, but this identification was discounted on the basis of the costume. Extensive analysis in the 1960s confirmed that it was painted in about 1560 but the identity of the sitter is yet to be discovered. In its current state it is a charming portrait with an unusual landscape setting including a distant view of mountains, a castle and a hilltop town. Cheers, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 11:56:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63FuCHP023506 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:56:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63FsTUw007255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:54:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63FsP0H007422; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:54:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h63FsJ0H007240 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:54:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCoY4MoXgNvJHB5UHjVZQH2gnVsQ8VRXPsw==">; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:54:06 EDT Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H364YZTE; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:54:06 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:32:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from vakation Message-ID: <20030703.103251.-300484251.10.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Congratulations! We always knew you had Panache and now it's official! Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 12:00:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63G0THP023519 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:00:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63FwnUw008017 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:58:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63FwfoS011213; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:58:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63FwKoS010916 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:58:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5980936A6D for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19Y6TM-00084F-00 for ; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:58:12 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan cap questions In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:58:12 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc wrote: > I have a couple of somewhat strange questions. > > 1. I am looking for extant examples of of what I've seen referred to as a > "Holbein" cap, or any other working and middle class hearwear from the late > 1500s. > > 2. Anyone know how far back the use of the Monmouth Cap goes? I found examples of those kinds of caps in "The History of Handknitting" which I recently picked up. I don't have the bibliographic details handy, but you should be able to find it easily enough; it's in print, and quite recent too I think. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 12:08:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63G86HP023571 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:08:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63G6DUw009292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:06:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63G68oS018112; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:06:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63G61oS017944 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04001 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:30:11 -0500 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:30:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations In-Reply-To: <3F045869.9010209@faucet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Melanie Schuessler wrote: > Robin Netherton wrote: > > >>http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Unknown%20Lady%20G.jpg > > > > It screams "repainted" to me. Many portraits of this era have had heavy > > restoration, and it looks like we're seeing a later (as late as 19th > > century) hand in the shaping of the torso, parts of the face, possibly the > > whole background. > It's from the National Portrait Gallery, also found in Queen Elizabeth's > Wardrobe Unlock'd, fig. 242 (though Arnold dates it to 1575-80). The > NPG site has this to say: > ... > This portrait was originally acquired by the Gallery from a private > owner who believed it to be of Mary, Queen of Scots. Despite the fact > that the portrait includes many symbols connected with Mary subsequent > examination revealed that the portrait had been much repainted. Aha. I'd nail that background as being a later addition, which calls the torso profile into question. I bet there's an interesting file on it at NPG. I wonder what X-ray would show... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 12:12:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GCtHP023578 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:12:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63G9EUw009744 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:09:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63G93oS020889; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:09:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63G8ooS020614 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:08:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2339519FBA2 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 18:08:45 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F0455CF.9030805@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:11:59 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] For people who thought my partlet was a lot of work :-) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I found this picture. Recreating this dress would take lots of pearls. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Pearldress/Pearldress.html I would be to affraid that I will loose many pearls by wearing it Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 12:14:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GEVHP023583 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:14:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GCmUw010240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:12:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GCkoS024177; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:12:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h63GCgoS024120 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:12:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 39701 invoked by uid 1005); 3 Jul 2003 16:12:35 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.101239 secs); 03 Jul 2003 16:12:35 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.101239 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2003 16:12:35 -0000 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:12:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations In-Reply-To: <002b01c34171$933a7ea0$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> Message-ID: <20030703121037.U90718-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I have also pondered a bit the thought of a sports corset. My husband and I > are starting to run, and I commented that my corset certainly holds me > better than any sports bra I have worn (now I have not sprung for the $40+ > bras, so I don't know how they would work). And that just naturally led to > "how would I make a corset that was sports-proof?" Would steel boning work, > or would I need some other, lighter material? What about fabric - CoolMax > corsets? And of course, how would it be marketed? I can't see a whole lot of > women being excited about wearing a *corset* to exercise in! Any thoughts? Hm...my instinct would be to make it of lightweight linen, which draws sweat away from the body better than any other natural fabric, and corset reed. The reed is lightweight and flexible, and since you just want mongo support instead of an ultra flat front, would be enough to do the trick. Being natural, it also breathes. Though you wouldn't be able to wash it in the machine, which could create a stank issue after a while. Drea > (gee, maybe I *should* look at some sort of patent on this!) > > ********************** > Rebecca Schmitt > aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot > BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence > > A room without books is like a body without a soul > ---Cicero > > lotsofteapots@charter.net > ********************** > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 12:18:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GIeHP023596 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:18:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GGxUw010819 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:16:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GGwoS028008; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:16:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GGroS027944 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:16:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21D0C36A2E for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19Y6lQ-00085L-00 for ; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:16:52 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations In-Reply-To: References: <006501c340ad$2b6a9130$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:16:52 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sarah wrote: > > What it amounted to was that I was hoisting my breasts upward in my > kirtle (and with my corsets) which gave the shelf look at top. What > Ben suggested trying was *flattening* my bosom rather than hauling up. > I guess a better way to describe it would be let the fabric compress my > breasts without pulling them up so that they give me the TOAP look. In > the second photo I've done just this and guess what? The neckline > falls correctly and doesn't look too low! I still have a noticeable > bit of cleavage at top, but that's the nature of the beasties. ;) > > Also, I should add that compressing the bosom is a lot less comfortable > than hosting. It's a more restrictive feeling and even somewhat > painful and takes some getting used to. Actually, I find compressing the breasts inwards to be pretty comfortable, compared to hoisting them upwards. The trick is to push them "inwards" towards your torso, just like if you were wearing a sturdy sports bra. Your nipples should stay in the same place (when seen from the front) as when you are not wearing the bodice... perhaps a *smidgen* higher than where they naturally sit, but not more than about an inch higher unless you're particularly saggy. Not as high as most modern bras put them, anyway. The breast should kind of be squished flat with the nipple in the same place, rather than hoisted up or pushed down. Though if you want cleavage *without* TOAP or having your nipples pop out the top of the bodice, the trick is to keep your nipples at the same *height* as they were originally, but move them *inwards*... front-lacing bodices help with this naturally but with a back or side-back lacing one you'll have to reach in and move the puppies around a bit. The overall tightness of the bodice should be the minimum to keep your nipples where you put them, and no tighter. This overall strategy leads to a more "conical" shape to your bodices, and less curvy. Here's a pic of me in a bodice that fits that way... nipples are about 3" below the top of the bodice, I think (I'm a DD): http://infotrope.net/sca/album//projects/costuming/2001-reddress/katherine4.jpg Here's a side view of the same outfit: http://infotrope.net/sca/album//projects/costuming/2001-reddress/katherine5.jpg K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 12:28:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GSMHP023631 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:28:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GP1VC011876 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:26:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GB1oS022623; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx01.supplyguys.net (mx01.supplyguys.net [65.115.27.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h63GAfoS022331 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:10:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 31890 invoked by uid 89); 3 Jul 2003 16:11:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vivid.net) (209.206.17.208) by 0 with SMTP; 3 Jul 2003 16:11:55 -0000 Message-ID: <3F045577.DAA67B6E@vivid.net> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:10:59 -0400 From: Wendy Colbert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan cap questions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The History of Handknitting by Bishop Richard Rutt was out of print for a long time and was recently (April) reprinted by Interweave Press ISBN 1-931499-37-3 Wendy Kirrily Robert wrote: > > Marc wrote: > > I have a couple of somewhat strange questions. > > > > 1. I am looking for extant examples of of what I've seen referred to as a > > "Holbein" cap, or any other working and middle class hearwear from the late > > 1500s. > > > > 2. Anyone know how far back the use of the Monmouth Cap goes? > > I found examples of those kinds of caps in "The History of Handknitting" > which I recently picked up. I don't have the bibliographic details > handy, but you should be able to find it easily enough; it's in print, > and quite recent too I think. > > K. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 12:35:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GZiHP023648 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:35:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GY4Uw013077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:34:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GY2oS013207; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:34:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GXuoS013095 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:33:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip157.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.157]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A18A6DE88 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:33:50 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:31:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Message-ID: <3F03F7F7.10696.376F7DBA@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <3F036E60.7373.35560830@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Another interesting detail about this corset is that there is no > boning where the breasts sit. The breasts would only get the pressure > of the fabric. There is also no boning on the sides and only minimal > in the back. In doing some experimentation with this, we found that busty women *should* *not* do this. It actually causes the bones to bite into the breast tissue. The skinny women had no problems. Some of the people involved in the "experiment" postulated that this style may have been for women who were going through puberty: still small but with very tender breasts. (Those breast buds are painful little things. I used to get several mommas every spring bringing their newly pubescent girls in thinking that they must have breast cancer because they were so painful. Nope, just the first onslaught of estrogen stimulation. I always wondered if these girls would also get the pre-menstrual breast pain. But that is often more common in caffeine consumers.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 12:41:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GfNHP023657 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:41:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GdZUw013892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:39:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GdVoS018207; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:39:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GdOoS018027 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:39:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEC94BEA70 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 18:39:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F045CF9.1070202@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:42:33 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations References: <3F045621.2010601@faucet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Melanie Schuessler wrote: > Cassandra Greer wrote: > >> I do not disagree that there is an 'acceptable range' but I >> hypothesize that >> there is also a desirable target - this was also most likely >> subconscious in >> the society of the time. So far (in my 36 hours of thinking about >> this) I >> think it has not been noticed in modern times either - unless some of >> you >> more well-read researchers out there can point me in the direction of >> literature on the topic > > > No, I don't think anything has been written about the optimal neckline > level in the 16th century--maybe you should write an article! Perhaps > it would help convince cleavage-addicted people to cover up a bit > more. (I'm speaking mainly of those whose breasts cast a shadow on > the outside of their bodice...) That is an interesting idea! With pictures of paintings compeared to recreated gowns on real people. The placing of the straps of the courset and bodice is also very important. I will post someting about that but my food is ready :-) . Greetings, Deredere > > > regarding > >>> Ann Cresacre >>> http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Anne%20Cresacre.jpg >> > >> Mmm I am not in agreement with the calculations of these proportions. >> Just >> by taking a ruler and placing it on my monitor: From her eyebrow >> (arch - on >> her left) vertically to the plane of her chin, I measure 3.1 cm. If I >> measure from the top of the bodice (the line between the chemise and the >> line below), 3.1 cm goes quite a bit further than the base of her neck. > > > We're measuring from different places. I'm measuring to the black > line that marks the edge of her outer gown. But I think we basically > agree, though we probably differ in our thoughts about what the > "ideal" was. While you're thinking about what to put in your article, > you might consider doing a broad survey of Tudor and comparing it with > a broad survey of Elizabethan. It looks to me like the Tudors favored > a slightly lower neckline than the Elizabethans in general. There > also might be regional differences. We haven't even talked about the > Italians... > >> I don't know about what J. Arnold says yet - the books are coming! > > > You will love them! > > Melanie Schuessler > http://www.faucet.net/costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 12:42:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GgKHP023664 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:42:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GeZUw014096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:40:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GeYoS019175; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:40:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h63GeOoS018932 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:40:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 26291 invoked by uid 65534); 3 Jul 2003 16:40:18 -0000 Received: from pD9E4FD4B.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.2.21]) (217.228.253.75) by mail.gmx.net (mp009) with SMTP; 03 Jul 2003 18:40:18 +0200 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:40:17 +0200 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations From: Cassandra Greer To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3F045621.2010601@faucet.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Cassandra Greer wrote: > >> I do not disagree that there is an 'acceptable range' but I hypothesize that >> there is also a desirable target - this was also most likely subconscious in >> the society of the time. So far (in my 36 hours of thinking about this) I >> think it has not been noticed in modern times either - unless some of you >> more well-read researchers out there can point me in the direction of >> literature on the topic > > No, I don't think anything has been written about the optimal neckline > level in the 16th century--maybe you should write an article! Hmmmm :)))) >Perhaps > it would help convince cleavage-addicted people to cover up a bit more. > (I'm speaking mainly of those whose breasts cast a shadow on the > outside of their bodice...) LOL!!! :))) > > regarding >>> Ann Cresacre >>> http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Anne%20Cresacre.jpg > >> Mmm I am not in agreement with the calculations of these proportions. Just >> by taking a ruler and placing it on my monitor: From her eyebrow (arch - on >> her left) vertically to the plane of her chin, I measure 3.1 cm. If I >> measure from the top of the bodice (the line between the chemise and the >> line below), 3.1 cm goes quite a bit further than the base of her neck. > > We're measuring from different places. I'm measuring to the black line > that marks the edge of her outer gown. But I think we basically agree, > though we probably differ in our thoughts about what the "ideal" was. > While you're thinking about what to put in your article, you might > consider doing a broad survey of Tudor and comparing it with a broad > survey of Elizabethan. It looks to me like the Tudors favored a > slightly lower neckline than the Elizabethans in general. There also > might be regional differences. We haven't even talked about the Italians... Ah the Italians. If you noticed I specifically avoided them because from what I've seen they pretty much were not into a higher neckline :) Gee an article - as if I didn't have enough to do! (heheheeh) I will have to look around to see if there is some literature somewhere... At any rate I guess I need to start collecting picturs and making measurments and stuff - hey Deredere! Let's do it! Cass :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 12:44:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GiSHP023671 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:44:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GgpUw014521 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:42:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63GgloS021208; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:42:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h63GgdoS020977 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:42:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 11467 invoked by uid 65534); 3 Jul 2003 16:42:33 -0000 Received: from pD9E4FD4B.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.2.21]) (217.228.253.75) by mail.gmx.net (mp013) with SMTP; 03 Jul 2003 18:42:33 +0200 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:42:32 +0200 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations From: Cassandra Greer To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3F03F7F7.10696.376F7DBA@localhost> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oops ok! Dorothea was definitely on the petite side! Cass :) >> Another interesting detail about this corset is that there is no >> boning where the breasts sit. The breasts would only get the pressure >> of the fabric. There is also no boning on the sides and only minimal >> in the back. > > In doing some experimentation with this, we found that busty women > *should* *not* do this. It actually causes the bones to bite into the > breast tissue. The skinny women had no problems. > > Some of the people involved in the "experiment" postulated that this > style may have been for women who were going through puberty: still > small but with very tender breasts. (Those breast buds are painful > little things. I used to get several mommas every spring bringing > their newly pubescent girls in thinking that they must have breast > cancer because they were so painful. Nope, just the first onslaught > of estrogen stimulation. I always wondered if these girls would also > get the pre-menstrual breast pain. But that is often more common in > caffeine consumers.) > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 13:23:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63HMxHP023773 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:22:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63HLCUw020074 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:21:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63HLAvK021660; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:21:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63HL5vK021608 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:21:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.183] (pm5-183.eos.net [205.133.149.183]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17451 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:21:01 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 13:15:21 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200307030236.h632aHLx002090@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: corset too low X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is slightly off-topic but I thought you might enjoy this funny modern example of a corset being too low around the hips. I was in a wedding last year and I had to wear a strapless dress. The strapless shapers I tried on at modern department stores were laughable, and I am only a size 10. They fell right off. I went to a bridal store and the lady said I needed a "Goddess" shaper, which I take it is specially made for full-figured women, a description of myself that I find hilarious. Anyway, I tried it on and it was fantastic! I could have jumped on a trampoline in that thing without going anywhere. BUT -- I have a short waist. This was the most comfortable undergarment I've ever worn, until we sat down to dinner (we changed at the site). After about 20 minutes I felt a stabbing pain under my left breast -- the steel bone had been pushed up by my hips and had finally bent inwards! No, I wasn't really stabbed -- but it was horribly uncomfortable for the rest of the day. The shaper is made do go over the hips and give you some tummy control, but it's about an inch too long. Oh well, I guess for something like that to really fit I'd have to have it custom made. And maybe it would actually be worth the price for the comfort. I would definitely have it end at around my natural (high) waist. The dress, which was altered, didn't look right to me either -- I guess I'm too used to fitting costumes and seeing fitted gowns to be satisfied with an altered off-the-shelf bridesmaid dress, even if it did cost $200! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 13:46:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63HkIHP023841 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:46:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63HhDUw023156 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:43:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63HhAvK008936; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:43:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20208.mail.yahoo.com (web20208.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h63Hh7vK008906 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:43:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030703174307.46914.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [168.103.60.157] by web20208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:43:07 PDT Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:43:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Angela Kovatch To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO huh?? --- Kirrily Robert wrote: > > so that they give > me the TOAP look > Though if you want > cleavage *without* TOAP __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 14:15:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63IFdHP023959 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:15:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63IDtUw027395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:13:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63IDqhL003761; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:13:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f102.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63IDohL003657 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:13:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:13:44 -0700 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:13:44 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:13:44 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jul 2003 18:13:44.0787 (UTC) FILETIME=[D72F5230:01C3418E] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Feelin' ignernt X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm glad someone asked, because I just can't figure this one out!!! btw, I LOVE this conversation. It's something that's been poking around in my foggy mind but hadn't really come to light until you all started discussing. Thanks! :) jessica >huh?? > > >--- Kirrily Robert wrote: > > > so that they give > > me the TOAP look > > > Though if you want > > cleavage *without* TOAP > _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 14:30:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63ITxHP024026 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:30:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63IR0Uw028739 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63IQxhL012105; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63IQshL012022 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:26:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4A1D36AA5 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:26:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19Y8nD-0008DS-00 for ; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 14:26:51 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt In-Reply-To: <20030703174307.46914.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030703174307.46914.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:26:51 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO TOAP is "tits on a platter". K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 14:51:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63Ip6HP024122 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:51:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63InAUw001400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:49:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63In9hL027180; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:49:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63In4hL027120 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:49:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix, from userid 313) id 16CF72F96C; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:50:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "Kirrily Robert" at Jul 03, 2003 02:26:51 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030703185003.16CF72F96C@jabberwock.wonderland.com> From: alice@wonderland.com (Heather Meadows) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've always heard "tits on a ritz" which I like better ;) > > TOAP is "tits on a platter". > > K. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 14:54:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63IsFHP024141 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:54:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63IpCUw001574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:51:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63IpChL028501; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:51:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20206.mail.yahoo.com (web20206.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h63Ip9hL028479 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:51:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030703185109.40885.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [168.103.60.157] by web20206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:51:09 PDT Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:51:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Angela Kovatch Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ahh. Thanks. --- Kirrily Robert wrote: > TOAP is "tits on a platter". > > K. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 14:56:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63Iu2HP024148 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:56:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63IsHUw001862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:54:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63IsEhL000644; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:54:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63IsAhL000614 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail22.ureach.com (mail22.ureach.com [172.16.2.82]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07618 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:54:10 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-223-181.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.223.181]) by mail22.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA30872 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:54:10 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01c34193$f89295e0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F0455CF.9030805@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] For people who thought my partlet was a lot of work :-) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:50:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And I would bet it would be extremely heavy.... lovely, but heavy. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "H-Costume" Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 12:11 PM Subject: [h-cost] For people who thought my partlet was a lot of work :-) > Hi, > > I found this picture. > Recreating this dress would take lots of pearls. > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Pearldress/Pearldress.html > I would be to affraid that I will loose many pearls by wearing it > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 15:15:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JF9HP024221 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:15:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JDLUw003939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:13:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JDJkm013148; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:13:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JDFkm013091 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:13:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fa6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.166]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8F9CD47FF7D for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:13:13 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001601c34197$33955e40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030703185109.40885.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:13:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi :-) I am confused, dont understand anything (grins) But it must be a girl thing!!! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela Kovatch" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt > Ahh. Thanks. > > --- Kirrily Robert wrote: > > TOAP is "tits on a platter". > > > > K. > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 15:22:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JMXHP024282 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:22:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JFGUw004159 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:15:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JFGkm014450; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:15:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JFAkm014328 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:15:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fa6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.166]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 464C447FF03 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:15:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001c01c34197$7895dba0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F0455CF.9030805@kabelfoon.nl> <000c01c34193$f89295e0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> Subject: Re: [h-cost] For people who thought my partlet was a lot of work :-) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:15:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. Yes, this has made me wonder many times, it seems to be an impossible thing, if those pearls are real. Could they have used some fake pearls somehow? Made of ? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 8:50 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] For people who thought my partlet was a lot of work :-) > And I would bet it would be extremely heavy.... lovely, but heavy. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Deredere Galbraith" > To: "H-Costume" > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 12:11 PM > Subject: [h-cost] For people who thought my partlet was a lot of work :-) > > > > Hi, > > > > I found this picture. > > Recreating this dress would take lots of pearls. > > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Pearldress/Pearldress.html > > I would be to affraid that I will loose many pearls by wearing it > > > > Greetings, > > Deredere > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 15:24:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JOkHP024291 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:24:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JKwUw004772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:20:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JKukm017993; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:20:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JKskm017965 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:20:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fa6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.166]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 40D2447FFEE for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:20:53 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002201c34198$45d6df10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: corset too low Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:21:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All this talk about corsets, lovely........... I have a question, I am making a skirt and a caraco jacket. And because i have to drape it on the dress stand, i make a corset two, because it would be impossible to make without. Anyway i am using this Wissner artificially whalebone from Germany, and i wondered if i could steam and iron it into the shape i want. I really would like to make that beautifull fashionable curved back used in the late 18th century. If i ironed it while it is on the dresstand, and then let it get cold again..................... Anyone with any experiences with this? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 7:15 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: corset too low > > This is slightly off-topic but I thought you might enjoy this funny modern > example of a corset being too low around the hips. > > I was in a wedding last year and I had to wear a strapless dress. The > strapless shapers I tried on at modern department stores were laughable, and > I am only a size 10. They fell right off. I went to a bridal store and the > lady said I needed a "Goddess" shaper, which I take it is specially made for > full-figured women, a description of myself that I find hilarious. Anyway, I > tried it on and it was fantastic! I could have jumped on a trampoline in > that thing without going anywhere. > > BUT -- I have a short waist. This was the most comfortable undergarment I've > ever worn, until we sat down to dinner (we changed at the site). After about > 20 minutes I felt a stabbing pain under my left breast -- the steel bone had > been pushed up by my hips and had finally bent inwards! No, I wasn't really > stabbed -- but it was horribly uncomfortable for the rest of the day. The > shaper is made do go over the hips and give you some tummy control, but it's > about an inch too long. > > Oh well, I guess for something like that to really fit I'd have to have it > custom made. And maybe it would actually be worth the price for the comfort. > I would definitely have it end at around my natural (high) waist. The dress, > which was altered, didn't look right to me either -- I guess I'm too used to > fitting costumes and seeing fitted gowns to be satisfied with an altered > off-the-shelf bridesmaid dress, even if it did cost $200! > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 15:30:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JU2HP024319 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:30:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JSJUw005522 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:28:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JSHkm023153; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:28:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JSEkm023124 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:28:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fa6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.166]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id EACBE47FF3E for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:28:12 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002f01c34199$4c3af5c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F044B65.7030103@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from vakation Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:28:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Deredere, Lovely pictures, you looked great, and congratulations with the avard! Where did this take place? It looks so good, is it Norwegian? Please forgive me my ignorance, i have no idea where it was, but it looks soo great! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "H-Costume" Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 5:27 PM Subject: [h-cost] Back from vakation > Hi, > > STill tired and feel like my brains are fried but happy. > The SCA event we went to was great! > Here are some pictures > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/DTYC/DTYC.html > I still don't have nice pictures of me wearing te partlet :-[ > And the picture of my dress isn't very flattering. > I was tired and it was so hot that I decided not to wear my corset. > > Her are some pictures of my back > http://www.skauma.org/bildarkiv/dynpage.cgi?last=1057166908&dir=/2003/dw10yc /frid-evn/P6204316.jpg > http://www.skauma.org/bildarkiv/dynpage.cgi?last=1057166908&dir=/2003/dw10yc /frid-evn/P6204318.jpg > > There was no Arts and science contest but a display where I talked with > some people over my dress. > But too my supprise I've got an aword for all the work I put in making > costumes. > They made me a member of the Order of the Panache. :-) :-) :-) > > Order of the Panache > The Panache is the awarded to those who have distinguished themselves by > long and consistent excellence in the Arts (and Sciences) and who have > also constantly made their expertise available to the various members of > the Kingdom. The symbol of the Order is (Fieldless) issuant to chief > from a torteau charged with a bezant pierced sable three feathers gules, > Or and Sable. > > Unfortionally I had an exident with my dress. Someone had a pack of > blackberry juse standing on the ground an kicked it over. So there were > some purple stains on my dress :-( :-( . We tried to take it out by > putting salt on the stains. The stains are almost gone. But making white > silk satin wet with water already distrois the fabrick. Grrrr.... > > I now have so many ideas of what I want to make.... > A hat where I can sow the Panache token on, New corset, Two different > 16th century dresses, A Robe a la Francaise(bought Kyoto book)..... > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 15:53:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63Jr5HP024382 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:53:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JpFUw008244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:51:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JpEkm009745; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:51:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63Jp9km009676 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:51:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HHG00MS0SH7SI@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:51:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:39:27 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] For people who thought my partlet was a lot of work :-) In-reply-to: <001c01c34197$7895dba0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030703122701.02e51048@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested References: <3F0455CF.9030805@kabelfoon.nl> <000c01c34193$f89295e0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:15 PM 7/3/2003 +0200, you wrote: >Hi. >Yes, this has made me wonder many times, it seems to be an impossible thing, >if those pearls are real. >Could they have used some fake pearls somehow? >Made of ? > >Bjarne Deredere, how heavy was your partlet? Have you weighed it? And I don't know if Lynn is on this group list, but after creating her chemise of pearls, she might have some idea perhaps? http://www.lynnmcmasters.com/chemise.html And I have heard of fake pearls during this time, but I have forgotten what they were made of... a paste of some sort, was it fish scales? Ah, found the book... _Bead Embroidery_ ... not during the 16th c., but later (1660s) there is a description of how fake pearls are made using fish scales. I would think that the Queen/Queen Mother of such standing as Catherine would have made the dress from real pearls. But my pondering is... were they actually all beautiful round warm water pearls as we know them today, or were they possibly freshwater pearls and made more perfect by the artist? Just some ponderings... Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 15:57:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JvGHP024415 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:57:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JsLUw008638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:54:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JsKkm011845; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:54:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63JsHkm011771 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:54:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC899BEB8F for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:54:11 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F048AA7.1020409@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 21:57:27 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] For people who thought my partlet was a lot of work :-) References: <3F0455CF.9030805@kabelfoon.nl> <000c01c34193$f89295e0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> <001c01c34197$7895dba0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am not sure when they started to make fake pearls. You can make fake pearls by grinding mother of pearl and glue it unto glass balls ore something. Maby I can find it in one of my books... Greetings, Deredere Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Hi. >Yes, this has made me wonder many times, it seems to be an impossible thing, >if those pearls are real. >Could they have used some fake pearls somehow? >Made of ? > >Bjarne > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Beteena Paradise" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 8:50 PM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] For people who thought my partlet was a lot of work >:-) > > > > >>And I would bet it would be extremely heavy.... lovely, but heavy. >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Deredere Galbraith" >>To: "H-Costume" >>Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 12:11 PM >>Subject: [h-cost] For people who thought my partlet was a lot of work :-) >> >> >> >> >>>Hi, >>> >>>I found this picture. >>>Recreating this dress would take lots of pearls. >>>http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Pearldress/Pearldress.html >>>I would be to affraid that I will loose many pearls by wearing it >>> >>>Greetings, >>> Deredere >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>h-costume mailing list >>>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 16:13:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63KCxHP024460 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:12:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63BhGUw002041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 05:43:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63Bh7t5012187; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 05:43:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h63BgXt5011801 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 05:42:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 31142 invoked by uid 65534); 3 Jul 2003 11:42:27 -0000 Received: from pD9E4FD4B.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.2.21]) (217.228.253.75) by mail.gmx.net (mp003) with SMTP; 03 Jul 2003 13:42:27 +0200 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 13:42:25 +0200 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations From: Cassandra Greer To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030702164213.00e22740@mail.frys.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >>> As to the lower edge of the corset, I have noticed that people try >>> too hard to have that as low as possible. When I was taught corsetry, >>> I was told that with the corset on, if you bend to the side as much >>> as possible, it should not dig into the hip or the waist. It should >>> not be sitting on the hipline at all. That would put the bottom of >>> the corset at the lower edge of the ribcage and perhaps only a slight >>> bit below, as you describe. >> This is exactly what most people don't do (unfortunately!) I know know mine >> sits to low though thank goodness it never caused me problems and if I can >> modify it a bit maybe I can get it higher too. > > I'm surprised that you think most people put the waist too low. I have > always been somewhat overweight, and find corsets/bodices sit better if > their waists are somewhat above my actual waist. I also put bodice/corset > waists there for the people I do fittings for, and they don't complain > later about the corset/bodice trying to shift upwards, away from the skirt, > during the day. On reflection these 'most' are 'mostly' ones that aren't overweight - At least with me being overweight, my natural rolls automatically kept my corset from getting toooo low ;) Cass :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 16:13:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63KD7HP024463 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:13:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63BfdUw001868 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 05:41:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63BfUt5011219; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 05:41:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63BfPt5011095 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 05:41:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessica.webwarren.com (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.17.255]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by webwarren.com (8.12.8/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h63BfGlp010157 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 07:41:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030703072448.050fe278@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: arachne@pop.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 07:40:35 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmm. I've always felt uncomfortable with corsets that don't try to cover the entire areole: too much chance of "overflow" during the day. (Forget about "ToaP", these are more like T *overflowing* the P.) Add to this that I've lost rather a bit of weight this past year, and the ladies are more flesh than fat. Right now, "hoisting" tends to create the "Ugly Duchess" effect. Badly. OTOH, letting them hang and compressing them leaves little room for me being able to move around as needed. Using the lower-cut corset, I think getting the "hang" of fit may be a matter of lifting the ladies *only just enough* for the wearer to be able to move freely. This seems to have happened rather fortuitiously when I tried on my latest corset (a Margo's Patterns corset) which creates too much overflow if I "hoist properly" -- it created a nice swell upon tightening the laces without the "Ugly Duchess" chest-and-breast wrinkles. Hmm. Maybe that *is* the hang of it (pardon the expression). Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 16:13:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63KDtHP024467 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:13:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63FFIUw001764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:15:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63FFG0H006272; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:15:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63FFB0H006216 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:15:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-004scfairp0046.dialsprint.net ([63.184.224.46] helo=faucet.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Y5ni-0000bn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 08:15:10 -0700 Message-ID: <3F045621.2010601@faucet.net> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:13:21 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cassandra Greer wrote: > I do not disagree that there is an 'acceptable range' but I hypothesize that > there is also a desirable target - this was also most likely subconscious in > the society of the time. So far (in my 36 hours of thinking about this) I > think it has not been noticed in modern times either - unless some of you > more well-read researchers out there can point me in the direction of > literature on the topic No, I don't think anything has been written about the optimal neckline level in the 16th century--maybe you should write an article! Perhaps it would help convince cleavage-addicted people to cover up a bit more. (I'm speaking mainly of those whose breasts cast a shadow on the outside of their bodice...) regarding >>Ann Cresacre >>http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Anne%20Cresacre.jpg > Mmm I am not in agreement with the calculations of these proportions. Just > by taking a ruler and placing it on my monitor: From her eyebrow (arch - on > her left) vertically to the plane of her chin, I measure 3.1 cm. If I > measure from the top of the bodice (the line between the chemise and the > line below), 3.1 cm goes quite a bit further than the base of her neck. We're measuring from different places. I'm measuring to the black line that marks the edge of her outer gown. But I think we basically agree, though we probably differ in our thoughts about what the "ideal" was. While you're thinking about what to put in your article, you might consider doing a broad survey of Tudor and comparing it with a broad survey of Elizabethan. It looks to me like the Tudors favored a slightly lower neckline than the Elizabethans in general. There also might be regional differences. We haven't even talked about the Italians... > I don't know about what J. Arnold says yet - the books are coming! You will love them! Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 16:18:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63KE4HP024473 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:14:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63KCMUw010862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:12:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63KCLvo024651; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:12:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63KCHvo024598 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:12:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip161.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.161]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 362BB6A996 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:50:20 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 13:10:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3F042B34.13210.3837A24D@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3F048AA7.1020409@kabelfoon.nl> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Subject: [h-cost] Fake pearls, was: For people who thought my partlet was a lot of work :-) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I am not sure when they started to make fake pearls. > You can make fake pearls by grinding mother of pearl and glue it unto > glass balls ore something. Maby I can find it in one of my books... Fake pearls were quite common in the 16th C. They were made as early as c1260 because there is a statute in Paris forbidding their use. (As opposed to using fresh water, aka "Scottish" pearls instead of the salt water "Oriental" pearls, which got separate mention in terms of statutes.) (See Lightbown, _Mediaeval European Jewellery_). A 15th C Italian recipe for pearls (also from Lightbown) states that they use powdered crystal glass mixed with white of egg and snail slime as the foundation of the pearl. "After stirring it into a paste, press it into a round shape in moulds. The pearls so formed are pierced with a hog's bristle, baked in a vessel until they are white hot, and then cooled with clear water 'and they will be most beautiful'." A 1652 method for making them (from Scarisbrick, _Jewellery in Britain 1066-1837__ ) quote from Thomas Nicols: There are factitious jewels made of double glasse which being set in gold, jewellers cannot discern from Pearl, except that they take them out. Some will adulterate them with the powder of the shell of Margarite; and others with chalk covered over with leaves of silver, and then anointed with the white of an egg. Some adulterate them with the powder of Margarites, mixt with the white of an egge, and dried, and then polished, but these will easily be discovered from the true by the weight and colour." The mother of pearl method you mention is probably like the "shell of Margarite." Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 16:26:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63KQOHP024513 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:26:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63KOiUw012665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:24:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63KOdvo005119; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:24:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63KOWvo004941 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:24:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0F35BE885 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:24:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F0491BE.3050900@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 22:27:42 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from vakation References: <3F044B65.7030103@kabelfoon.nl> <002f01c34199$4c3af5c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you! It was in germany at castle Burgau near Duren. I love your robe a la francaise! What kind of silk did you use? It looks a lot like the fabric in a painting of Maria di Cosimo wich I would like to recreate http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Bluedress/Bluedress.html Greetings, Deredere >Hi Deredere, >Lovely pictures, you looked great, and congratulations with the avard! >Where did this take place? It looks so good, is it Norwegian? >Please forgive me my ignorance, i have no idea where it was, but it looks >soo great! > >Bjarne > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 16:32:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63KWjHP024539 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:32:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63KV4Uw013713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:31:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63KV1vo010474; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:31:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63KUvvo010413 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:30:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h63KVAJ00636 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:31:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200307032031.h63KVAJ00636@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >(now I have not sprung for the $40+ >bras, so I don't know how they would work) The bras that have non-stretch cups and straps work much better than the usual bra, simply because they don't bounce and sag with every step. I've got a couple "posture bras" that are actually better than the usual sports bra, simply because very little of the bra is made of stretch material. And it has a full back, rather like a tank top which has wide criss-cross straps sewn down onto it. This keeps the straps from biting into your shoulder blades. Let me see if I can find a photo anywhere... Here we go: http://www.justmysize.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=6002&prmenbr=2701&cgrfnbr=1602958233&V=B And a longline version: http://www.justmysize.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=11453&prmenbr=2701&cgrfnbr=1602958233&V=B Now, if only these were made in cotton or coolmax rather than polyester. My bras have cotton lining, but that does just about nothing in hot weather... Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 17:19:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LJpHP024623 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:19:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LH6Uw020012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:17:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LH4PI016895; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dukcds.cds.duke.edu (dukcds.cds.duke.edu [152.3.16.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LGxPI016829 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:16:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cds.duke.edu (dukcds.cds.duke.edu [152.3.16.60]) by dukcds.cds.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h63LDrQ17212 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:13:53 -0400 Message-ID: <3F049D4B.20604@cds.duke.edu> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:16:59 -0400 From: Vicki Lamb User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Margo's website doesn't like me X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry to use the bandwidth, but I have a question for Margo Anderson. I was trying to access your website and I got a message that said "Forbidden. You don't have permission to access / on this server." What's up? Did the URL change? Thanks for any help! Back to lurking... Vicki _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 17:22:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LM3HP024634 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:22:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LKMUw020378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:20:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LKFPI018866; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:20:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LK8PI018744 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:20:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f11.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.17]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C73E1262893 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:20:06 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c341a8$ef0b6b40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F044B65.7030103@kabelfoon.nl><002f01c34199$4c3af5c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3F0491BE.3050900@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from vakation Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:20:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Deredere That is a beautifull portrait. Well the taffeta i baught in England. James Hare is the company, they have a large range of collours to choose from in silk taffeta. If you would like to have a scan of their colour chart, i would gladly help you. They take online orders. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 10:27 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from vakation > Thank you! > It was in germany at castle Burgau near Duren. > > I love your robe a la francaise! > What kind of silk did you use? > It looks a lot like the fabric in a painting of Maria di Cosimo wich I > would like to recreate > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Bluedress/Bluedress.html > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > >Hi Deredere, > >Lovely pictures, you looked great, and congratulations with the avard! > >Where did this take place? It looks so good, is it Norwegian? > >Please forgive me my ignorance, i have no idea where it was, but it looks > >soo great! > > > >Bjarne > > > > > > > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 17:39:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LdgHP024704 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:39:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LbwUw022958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:37:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LbrPI002839; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:37:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m3.nyc.untd.com (m3.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h63LblPI002653 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:37:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"dBh/I51fsHv9NCoYYJioTCJ+fiX9bdYbR3pbxKSkmBTMkVjRsP8xKw==">; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:37:30 EDT Received: (from spynnere@juno.com) by m3.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H37QMS5H; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:37:30 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:39:28 -0400 Message-ID: <20030703.174004.-178087.3.spynnere@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,9-14 From: Elizabeth A Heckert Subject: [h-cost] Modern fabric question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My roommate found some attractive oriental-esque brocade at far too reasonable a price to pass up. The drawback is that it is (shudder) polyester. It is much heavier than the polyester sold as 'slipper' or 'bridal' satin. Now that it is washed, it is too wrinkly to cut into, and she is afraid that the wrinkles won't iron out without lots of help. She was wondering if you can starch this kind of fabric. Because all my starching experience involves high heat and natural fibers, I didn't know what to tell her, and thought someone on the list might have played with something like this for SF/fantasy costumes. Thanks for the help! Elizabeth (PS. It is *very* handsome, and she wants to make the Folkwear Patterns' quilted Turkish coat out of it, but will need to have very flat fabric to get the pattern pieces nicely shaped.) ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 17:40:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LeOHP024709 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:40:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LciUw023119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:38:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LcePI003427; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:38:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law8-oe66.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LcYPI003266 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:38:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:38:29 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by law8-oe66.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 21:38:29 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: corset too low Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:38:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jul 2003 21:38:29.0436 (UTC) FILETIME=[7167FFC0:01C341AB] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I sympathise. I can NOT, EVER, buy strapless bodices or shapers, they're always at least one inch too long in the waist. It's easy enough to figure out: put them on, and bend forward. If it lays flat, it's fine. If it buckles, it's too long. One of the things I like about being able to sew is that I can remove one inch in length from every single pattern I make before I cut my fabric. I did that with my corset, and it's perfect. I can bend, twist, no problem at all. Most people are not aware how much waist length affects the right fit of a piece of clothing. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 1:15 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: corset too low > > This is slightly off-topic but I thought you might enjoy this funny modern > example of a corset being too low around the hips. > > I was in a wedding last year and I had to wear a strapless dress. The > strapless shapers I tried on at modern department stores were laughable, and > I am only a size 10. They fell right off. I went to a bridal store and the > lady said I needed a "Goddess" shaper, which I take it is specially made for > full-figured women, a description of myself that I find hilarious. Anyway, I > tried it on and it was fantastic! I could have jumped on a trampoline in > that thing without going anywhere. > > BUT -- I have a short waist. This was the most comfortable undergarment I've > ever worn, until we sat down to dinner (we changed at the site). After about > 20 minutes I felt a stabbing pain under my left breast -- the steel bone had > been pushed up by my hips and had finally bent inwards! No, I wasn't really > stabbed -- but it was horribly uncomfortable for the rest of the day. The > shaper is made do go over the hips and give you some tummy control, but it's > about an inch too long. > > Oh well, I guess for something like that to really fit I'd have to have it > custom made. And maybe it would actually be worth the price for the comfort. > I would definitely have it end at around my natural (high) waist. The dress, > which was altered, didn't look right to me either -- I guess I'm too used to > fitting costumes and seeing fitted gowns to be satisfied with an altered > off-the-shelf bridesmaid dress, even if it did cost $200! > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 17:52:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LqtHP024779 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:52:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63Lp9Uw025031 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:51:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LopPI012754; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:50:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law8-oe62.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.197]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LofPI012545 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:50:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:50:35 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by law8-oe62.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 21:50:35 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Washing linen Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:45:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jul 2003 21:50:35.0923 (UTC) FILETIME=[226D1E30:01C341AD] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Was wondering if anyone else had heard of this method for softening > linen: wash it in Dawn. I have a bunch of linen to prewash and this was > recommended to me. Anyone else try it? Dawn being a fabric softener, I'd think it would soften any fabric. In my experience, linen will soften as you wash it, no matter what you use. > I have also been told that if you pre-soak a new swimsuit in a weak > vineagar solution it will hold up a lot longer to the chlorine from the > pool. Again, anyone have experience with this? I think I remember from my chemistry classes that chlorine is a strong base. Soaking your swimsuit in weak vinegar (which is acidic) would neutralise the chlorine and keep it from attacking the swimsuit material. However, I don't think pre-soaking it would help, since acids and bases are washed away easily with plain water (I could be wrong, though). But I'd tend to believe that adding some vinegar to the rinse water would help making it hold up longer. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 18:00:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63M08HP024796 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 18:00:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63Lt1V8025505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:58:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LrqPI014885; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:53:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h63LqHPI013773 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:52:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCoY4MoXgNvJH0EIzBM6GrZpWFQQmsufXzA==">; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:51:43 EDT Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H37RFTRX; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:51:43 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:20:47 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Margo's website doesn't like me Message-ID: <20030703.162047.-157147587.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-6,8-21 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-DCC-SdV-Metrics: net.indra.com 1179; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just checked and apparently I don't have permission ot view the site either1 Who knew?! Karen On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:16:59 -0400 Vicki Lamb writes: > Sorry to use the bandwidth, but I have a question for Margo Anderson. > I was trying to access your website and I got > a message that said "Forbidden. You don't have permission to access / > on this server." What's up? Did the URL change? Thanks for any help! > > Back to lurking... > Vicki > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 18:00:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63M0cHP024799 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 18:00:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LwfUw026101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:58:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LweF5018819; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:58:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63LwaF5018673 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:58:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-103-208.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.103.208]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFC10349; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:58:15 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <028501c341ae$cb3d1a00$91694ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030703.162047.-157147587.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Margo's website doesn't like me Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:02:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Me neither :(( Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 18:09:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63M99HP024813 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 18:09:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63M7RUw027336 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:07:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63M7GF5024925; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:07:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63M75F5024769 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:07:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-026scfairp0037.dialsprint.net ([63.176.16.37] helo=faucet.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19YCEK-0006NU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 15:07:04 -0700 Message-ID: <3F04B6A9.9030206@faucet.net> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:05:13 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <3F042B34.13210.3837A24D@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Subject: [h-cost] Italian portraits 1550-1570 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO While I'm distracted from my work anyway, I thought I would share with you all a book that I just got. It's an exhibition catalog from the Kimbell Art Museum in Fort Worth, Texas, entitled "Giovanni Battista Moroni: Renaissance Portraitist." It's only 80 pages long, but it has over 30 different portraits (not all by him), some in color. Many of them I've never seen before, and most of them are 1550-1570. The majority are of men, but there are several nice ones of women and a few children as well. I hunted this down because I was trying to find a better copy of the delectable portrait of Isotta Brembati, which you can see here http://www.skiff.tcu.edu/SkiffWeb032400/Special.html though that pic makes her dress look black and it's actually green. You can get this from the Museum gift shop. Go to http://www.kimbellart.org/index.cfm and click on online shopping, then catalogues. [standard disclaimer--just a happy costumer, drooling on her new book] Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 18:54:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63MsnHP024877 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 18:54:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63Mr1Uw003566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63Mqq35027815; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:52:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h63Mqc35027600 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:52:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 5823 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2003 22:52:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail2.inreach.com) (209.142.2.51) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2003 22:52:33 -0000 Received: from 162.119.64.111 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <53170.162.119.64.111.1057272757.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian portraits 1550-1570 From: To: In-Reply-To: <3F04B6A9.9030206@faucet.net> References: <3F042B34.13210.3837A24D@localhost> <3F04B6A9.9030206@faucet.net> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.9) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > While I'm distracted from my work anyway, I thought I would share with > you all a book that I just got. It's an exhibition catalog from the > Kimbell Art Museum in Fort Worth, Texas, entitled "Giovanni Battista > Moroni: Renaissance Portraitist." It's only 80 pages long, but it has > over 30 different portraits (not all by him), some in color. Many of > them I've never seen before, and most of them are 1550-1570. The > majority are of men, but there are several nice ones of women and a few > children as well. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!! I have liked Moroni's stuff for years and have *never* found a good catalog of his portraits. And this one is in color for less than $30. Yipee!! Diana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 19:27:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63NRXHP024926 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 19:27:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63NPnUw006382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:25:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63NPksw021368; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:25:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63NPhsw021334 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:25:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19YDSQ-0001Gz-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:25:43 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Modern fabric question Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:25:47 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c341ba$6f3a9aa0$6601a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20030703.174004.-178087.3.spynnere@juno.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have you tried ironing it with a Teflon press cloth? Even a damp cloth with steam might be okay. Do you have enough to fiddle with a little of it? ___________ My roommate found some attractive oriental-esque brocade at far too reasonable a price to pass up. The drawback is that it is (shudder) polyester. It is much heavier than the polyester sold as 'slipper' or 'bridal' satin. Now that it is washed, it is too wrinkly to cut into, and she is afraid that the wrinkles won't iron out without lots of help. She was wondering if you can starch this kind of fabric. Because all my starching experience involves high heat and natural fibers, I didn't know what to tell her, and thought someone on the list might have played with something like this for SF/fantasy costumes. Thanks for the help! Elizabeth (PS. It is *very* handsome, and she wants to make the Folkwear Patterns' quilted Turkish coat out of it, but will need to have very flat fabric to get the pattern pieces nicely shaped.) ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 19:34:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63NYhHP024942 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 19:34:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63NX1Uw006981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63NWwsw026400; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:32:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h63NWtsw026368 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:32:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19YDZM-0002hq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:32:52 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:32:51 -0700 Message-ID: <000101c341bb$6f4bbc30$6601a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] New Book -Painting and the Market in Early Modern Antwerp X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Argh! I am getting itchy fingers on this one!! Especially since the cover painting is one I have not seen before! Thought you all might be interested! http://www.yale.edu/yup/images/0300072392.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 20:13:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h640D7HP025009 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:13:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6408JUw009695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 18:08:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64087sV020372; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 18:08:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6407wsV020289 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 18:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host-66-81-241-71.rev.o1.com ([66.81.241.71] helo=[66.81.242.254]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19YE7J-0006zY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 20:07:57 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:23:16 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Washing linen X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 5:45 PM -0400 7/3/03, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > Was wondering if anyone else had heard of this method for softening >> linen: wash it in Dawn. I have a bunch of linen to prewash and this was >> recommended to me. Anyone else try it? > >Dawn being a fabric softener, I'd think it would soften any fabric. In my >experience, linen will soften as you wash it, no matter what you use. Time to repeat this tip: I haven't had a chance to try this, but a friend's mom says that the quickest way to soften scratchy cotton or linen is to wet it thoroughly, then freeze it. Then take it out, and work the fabric while it's still partly frozen: roll, twist, rub, thump, et cetera. Wash and dry it again and it should come out quite a bit softer. I have some very inexpensive, but unfortunately rather scratchy, linen that I want to try this on, but there's never any room in my home freezer.... > > I have also been told that if you pre-soak a new swimsuit in a weak >> vineagar solution it will hold up a lot longer to the chlorine from the >> pool. Again, anyone have experience with this? > >I think I remember from my chemistry classes that chlorine is a strong base. >Soaking your swimsuit in weak vinegar (which is acidic) would neutralise the >chlorine and keep it from attacking the swimsuit material. However, I don't >think pre-soaking it would help, since acids and bases are washed away >easily with plain water (I could be wrong, though). But I'd tend to believe >that adding some vinegar to the rinse water would help making it hold up >longer. This sounds to me like the myth about vinegar "setting" colors popping up again. The short version of the explanation is that vinegar _might_ have been helpful in the original dyeing of the fabric, but doesn't do anything useful once the fabric is finished. Also, the reason swimsuits become discolored is not that the color is being "bled" out of them but that the color is being _bleached_, which is a different process. As far as I know, none of the remedies against colors _running_ offer any protection against _bleaching_. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 21:59:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h641x5HP025271 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:59:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h641vMUw017388 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 19:57:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h641vDZW001217; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 19:57:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h641v5ZW001147 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 19:57:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19YFor-0002Ez-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:57:01 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Italian portraits 1550-1570 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 18:57:06 -0700 Message-ID: <000501c341cf$92ab6e50$6601a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <3F04B6A9.9030206@faucet.net> X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow, so you never did say; did you get the better picture you were looking for? What an unusual portrait. Very cool, thanks for sharing! [standard disclaimer--just a happy costumer, drooling on her new book] Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 22:00:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64205HP025278 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:00:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h641wIUw017458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 19:58:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h641wCZW001821; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 19:58:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h641vXZW001394 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 19:57:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p20-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz) [203.173.192.20] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19YFpG-0004Mr-00; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 13:57:29 +1200 Message-ID: <3F04DEE6.80408@ihug.co.nz> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 13:56:54 +1200 From: michaela User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: mostly about bras now Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset References: <3F036E60.7373.35560830@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3F036E60.7373.35560830@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-Misty-Metrics: net.indra.com 1170; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Frankly, a Tudor or Elizabethan corset is better for breast health > than a bra, especially an underwire bra. There have been studies > recently showing that modern bras tend to cut off the lymph flow from > the breasts so that they are not "cleansed" the way they should be. > It's been postulated that this is contributing to the rise in breast > cancer. (I'd give you the references, but since they weren't > pediatric related, I didn't keep them after I read them in the > journals.) "(just as Sydney Ross Singer's 1995 book Dressed to Kill theorized that the wearing of tight-fitting bras leads to a concentration of carcinogenic compounds in the breasts and lymphatic system). However, as Thomas Henry Huxley once wrote, the "great tragedy of science" is "a beautiful hypothesis slain by an ugly fact." In this case it's both ugly facts and a lack of attractive ones that drive a stake through the heart of the hypothesis offered above. " From Snopes.com http://www.maurer-foundation.org/faq.asp Underwire bras causing cancer is a myth http://www.royalmarsden.org/patientinfo/booklets/breast_care/care_support.asp "Underwire bras Be particularly careful to choose an underwire bra which fits correctly. A badly fitting underwire bra can cause pain and discomfort if the wires dig into the upper part of the breast. More expensive underwire bras tend to have softer, more flexible wires. Don't wear an underwire bra if you're pregnant or have recently had a mastectomy. " http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/8293/24783.html the problems with ill fitting bras does not mention lymph problems. http://www.breastimplants4you.com/underwire_bra.htm yes it's about implants but "Underwire bras do NOT cause cancer from constant friction or pressure on the glands or lymph nodes of or around the breast -- that is a myth. There is absolutely NO scientific study which has determined that an underwire bras has ever been the direct cause of breast cancer. Nor do patient groups who wear underwire bras have an increased rate of cancer or benign tumors. This rumor was allegedly spread by Internet Email and had reasoned that lymph flow obstruction was the chief cause of an increased risk of cancer. This is simply not so." http://chetday.com/breastcancerandbras.htm And again.. it seems to be only the Singer's work that is mentioned. Not really conclusive evidence. http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/24684/29488/345629.html?d=dmtContent "Poor positioning; missed feedings; irregular nursing patterns; engorgement; poor milk drainage from breast; external pressure on the breast (e.g., underwire bra, tight bra, clothing)" For a Plugged Duct. Which can be massaged away. http://svc009.bne011i.server-web.com/INETUCRIDGUEST_1048205931_25376_13561/catalogue/db_bodywise/lymphatic.htm While it's promoting their bra, it does talk about properly fitted bras... http://www.gh.vic.gov.au/periop/breast/breastcan.htm Straight after surgery you shouldn't wear an underwire, but you can after 4 weeks. http://www.bmc.med.utoronto.ca/breastmatters/overview_myths.html It is a myth...that wearing an underwire bra is a risk factor for developing breast cancer. Bras have never been shown to cause breast cancer. Source: Canadian Cancer Society http://www.cancer.org/docroot/MED/content/MED_6_1x_Underwire_Bras.asp?sitearea=MED " Two anthropologists made this association in a book called Dressed to Kill. Their study was not conducted according to standard principles of epidemiological research and did not take into consideration other variables, including known risk factors for breast cancer. " (just like the recent "study" that links milk to type two diabetes.. not taking into account all the lifestyle choices that are prevalent in the same societies that are known to contribute to type 2 diabetes.) http://www.clevelandclinic.org/health/health-info/docs/1800/1896.asp?index=8353 OK, finally a real link, but it's listed *well* after nutrition, excercise and avoiding infections... "Secondary lymphedema can develop from an infection, malignancy, surgery, scar tissue formation, trauma, deep vein thrombosis, radiation or other cancer treatment." So it's not a specific cause but if you are at risk of Lymphedema then it might be a problem. "Avoid tight clothing, shoes or jewelry. Women should wear well-fitted bras; bra straps should not be too tight, avoid underwire styles, and wear pads under the bra straps if necessary. Wear comfortable, closed-toe shoes and avoid tight hosiery. Wear watches or jewelry loosely, if at all, on the affected arm (surgical side)." It's really about proper fit. And you need a proper fit with a corset too. And of course if you have trauma the last thing you want is a piece of metal, padded or not in any shape pushing into the region. Boning too really.... > An Elizabethan or Tudor corset should not be uncomfortable. It should > support you properly. If it's not properly constructed, it will hurt > like the dickens. Also, if it is not boned properly it will also > hurt. Which is exactly my point. I was replying to an email that said how uncomfortable it was. I was explaining my discomfort was probably through it being to loose at the top, and that discomfort is not necessarily a good thing. Seems people have been only reading bits of my email.. sigh... several responses along this line you see. >>Surely what's needed is essentially a pull directly in, rather than a >>pull down feeling? If you pull down the bust becomes much lower. And >>while no the women didn't have bosoms up around their ears, neither >>did they appear to be pushed down. > Exactly. If you look at the portraits, the women don't look like > they've moved their "girls" into odd positions (either up or down). > They're gently held in place. Yep again I was responding to another email, but I think it mayhave been a misunderstanding of the wording, because it sounded like they were advocating a push down.. but I think it may have been one of those miscommunication things. I think she meant push in and support as opposed to hitching up;) michaela http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 22:08:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6428QHP025301 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:08:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6426gUw018289 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:06:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6426YZW007498; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:06:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6426OZW007389 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:06:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-001scfairp0160.dialsprint.net ([63.184.192.160] helo=faucet.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19YFxv-0001NH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 19:06:23 -0700 Message-ID: <3F04EEC0.1020508@faucet.net> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 22:04:32 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian portraits 1550-1570 References: <000501c341cf$92ab6e50$6601a8c0@SG01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > Wow, so you never did say; did you get the better picture you were > looking for? What an unusual portrait. Very cool, thanks for sharing! Oh yes. There's detail of it facing the title page, and a full version in the catalogue in the back, both in color. Her gown is a beautiful deep green. There's also a scrumptious glowing red satin one with a red-cloth-of-gold kirtle underneath that's trying to seduce me into reproducing it. dch@inreach.com wrote: > THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!! > > I have liked Moroni's stuff for years and have *never* found a good > catalog of his portraits. And this one is in color for less than $30. > Yipee!! You're most welcome. I _love_ finding books full of 16th-century portraits that are both inexpensive and still in print! And if lots of people buy them and help to support the museum, that's even better. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 22:11:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h642BcHP025307 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:11:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6429vUw018455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:09:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6429tZW009575; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:09:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6429pZW009506 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:09:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LLWatts@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.153.213cc87b (4254) for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:09:39 -0400 (EDT) From: LLWatts@aol.com Message-ID: <153.213cc87b.2c363be3@aol.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:09:39 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Margo's website doesn't like me To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I just checked and apparently I don't have permission ot view the site > > either1 Who knew?! > Funny, I just clicked the bookmark and it came up. That was around 9 PM Central Daylight Time. Now, it tried to automatically route me to a high-resolution with-frames version -- maybe it was down for upgrading? Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 22:27:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h642RQHP025345 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:27:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h642PgUw019516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:25:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h642PNZW019326; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:25:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h642PHZW019204 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:25:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a225.in-tch.com [66.62.107.25]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6426DT28197 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:06:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F04E5F4.C07D02DF@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 20:27:00 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ROTFLMAO! --sue (who does just that, as she had a *good* set of girls) Kirrily Robert wrote: > > TOAP is "tits on a platter". > > K. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 22:31:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h642VEHP025365 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:31:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h642TbUw019878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:29:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h642TSZW021960; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:29:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h642TJZW021801 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:29:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a225.in-tch.com [66.62.107.25]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h642AFT29520 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:10:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F04E6E6.3BE78B38@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 20:31:02 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] For people who thought my partlet was a lot of work :-) References: <3F0455CF.9030805@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh. Gawd. Deredere, you're a *horrible* temptress! I must have that dress..... (Lessee...if I start now, it would take me...hmmm....) --sue Deredere Galbraith wrote: > > Hi, > > I found this picture. > Recreating this dress would take lots of pearls. > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Pearldress/Pearldress.html > I would be to affraid that I will loose many pearls by wearing it > > Greetings, > Deredere > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 22:31:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h642VkHP025371 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:31:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h642U6Uw019933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:30:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h642U3ZW022340; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:30:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h642TSZW021906 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:29:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a225.in-tch.com [66.62.107.25]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h642AOT29552 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:10:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F04E6EF.3ED0E0BD@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 20:31:11 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] For people who thought my partlet was a lot of work:-) References: <3F0455CF.9030805@kabelfoon.nl> <000c01c34193$f89295e0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> <3F048AA7.1020409@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There's something in one of my costuming books about fake pearls in the 16th c. IIRC, the exterior coating can be done with ground-up fish scales. --sue Deredere Galbraith wrote: > > I am not sure when they started to make fake pearls. > You can make fake pearls by grinding mother of pearl and glue it unto > glass balls ore something. > Maby I can find it in one of my books... > > Greetings, > Deredere > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > >Hi. > >Yes, this has made me wonder many times, it seems to be an impossible thing, > >if those pearls are real. > >Could they have used some fake pearls somehow? > >Made of ? > > > >Bjarne > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews > >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Beteena Paradise" > >To: "Historical Costume" > >Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 8:50 PM > >Subject: Re: [h-cost] For people who thought my partlet was a lot of work > >:-) > > > > > > > > > >>And I would bet it would be extremely heavy.... lovely, but heavy. > >> > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "Deredere Galbraith" > >>To: "H-Costume" > >>Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 12:11 PM > >>Subject: [h-cost] For people who thought my partlet was a lot of work :-) > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>Hi, > >>> > >>>I found this picture. > >>>Recreating this dress would take lots of pearls. > >>>http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Pearldress/Pearldress.html > >>>I would be to affraid that I will loose many pearls by wearing it > >>> > >>>Greetings, > >>> Deredere > >>> > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>h-costume mailing list > >>>h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>h-costume mailing list > >>h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 22:43:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h642hmHP025397 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:43:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h642g8Uw020837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:42:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h642fpZW029809; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:41:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h642fhZW029727 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:41:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19YGW6-0006Pc-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 19:41:42 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] For people who thought my partlet was a lot of work:-) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 19:41:47 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c341d5$d0c81980$6601a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <3F04E6EF.3ED0E0BD@in-tch.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Betcha' that smells yummy....:) What delightful things we are discussing today; boobage and fish scales...poor Bjarne..I didn't know the lingo either and I am a girl! _______________ There's something in one of my costuming books about fake pearls in the 16th c. IIRC, the exterior coating can be done with ground-up fish scales. --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 22:46:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h642kPHP025408 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:46:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h642iiUw021026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:44:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h642iYZW001628; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:44:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h642iSZW001573 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:44:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-118-213-91.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@67.118.213.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2003 02:44:27 -0000 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 19:44:31 -0700 Subject: Re: mostly about bras now Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3F04DEE6.80408@ihug.co.nz> Message-Id: <703A69A4-ADC9-11D7-B749-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> Surely what's needed is essentially a pull directly in, rather than a >>> pull down feeling? If you pull down the bust becomes much lower. And >>> while no the women didn't have bosoms up around their ears, neither >>> did they appear to be pushed down. >> Exactly. If you look at the portraits, the women don't look like >> they've moved their "girls" into odd positions (either up or down). >> They're gently held in place. > > Yep again I was responding to another email, but I think it mayhave > been a misunderstanding of the wording, because it sounded like they > were advocating a push down.. but I think it may have been one of > those miscommunication things. I think she meant push in and support > as opposed to hitching up;) Michaela, I was one of the ones you responded to and that's exactly what I meant. I know I didn't exactly describe the "push in" rather than "up", but that's what I was getting at. It's a different method than what I'm used to, having been reared in the ways of "grab and hoist" maneuvers from my days in Ren Faire, but I think it's the more accurate one for all of the reasons discussed before. And thanks for providing the debunking links to the old "underwire causes cancer" myth. I love snopes! ;) Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 23:12:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h643CTHP025453 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:12:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h643AfUw022901 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:10:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h643AcAp014725; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:10:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h643AZAp014693 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:10:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19YGy2-0005Rf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 20:10:34 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:10:39 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c341d9$d924c480$6601a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3F04E6EF.3ED0E0BD@in-tch.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Another very cool site for artifacts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.cotswold.gov.uk/museum/Collections.asp I came across this last night while looking for extant dress hooks. There are a bunch under Post Medieval, but there is so much other cool stuff too! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 23:23:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h643NTHP025475 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:23:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h643LpUw023816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:21:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h643LgAp021508; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:21:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h643LaAp021438 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:21:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 63644 invoked by uid 1005); 4 Jul 2003 03:21:21 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.085657 secs); 04 Jul 2003 03:21:21 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.085657 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 4 Jul 2003 03:21:21 -0000 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:21:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030703072448.050fe278@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20030703232042.J2570-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I've always felt uncomfortable with corsets that don't try to cover the > entire areole: too much chance of "overflow" during the day. (Forget about > "ToaP", these are more like T *overflowing* the P.) Add to this that I've > lost rather a bit of weight this past year, and the ladies are more flesh > than fat. Right now, "hoisting" tends to create the "Ugly Duchess" effect. Hm...maybe why wearing one's partlet closed was a sign of a married (i.e., older and more mature) woman in the later 16th c... Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 23:26:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h643QGHP025481 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:26:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h643OcUw023966 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:24:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h643OaAp023296; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:24:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h643OVAp023235 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:24:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 70122 invoked by uid 1005); 4 Jul 2003 03:24:16 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.08039 secs); 04 Jul 2003 03:24:16 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.08039 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 4 Jul 2003 03:24:16 -0000 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:24:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] For people who thought my partlet was a lot of work:-) In-Reply-To: <3F04E6EF.3ED0E0BD@in-tch.com> Message-ID: <20030703232303.O2570-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've come across several recipes for fake pearles in the 16th century, all entertaining. One starts with a wooden bead, dipped in glue, covered in silver leaf and then dipped in glue. Another has beads made of ground up snail shells mixed with glue, which are then dipped in mercury and other fun substances. There was quite an industry in fake pearls at the time, apparently... Drea On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Sue Clemenger wrote: > There's something in one of my costuming books about fake pearls in the > 16th c. IIRC, the exterior coating can be done with ground-up fish > scales. > --sue > > Deredere Galbraith wrote: > > > > I am not sure when they started to make fake pearls. > > You can make fake pearls by grinding mother of pearl and glue it unto > > glass balls ore something. > > Maby I can find it in one of my books... > > > > Greetings, > > Deredere > > > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > > >Hi. > > >Yes, this has made me wonder many times, it seems to be an impossible thing, > > >if those pearls are real. > > >Could they have used some fake pearls somehow? > > >Made of ? > > > > > >Bjarne > > > > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews > > >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > > > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Beteena Paradise" > > >To: "Historical Costume" > > >Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 8:50 PM > > >Subject: Re: [h-cost] For people who thought my partlet was a lot of work > > >:-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>And I would bet it would be extremely heavy.... lovely, but heavy. > > >> > > >>----- Original Message ----- > > >>From: "Deredere Galbraith" > > >>To: "H-Costume" > > >>Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 12:11 PM > > >>Subject: [h-cost] For people who thought my partlet was a lot of work :-) > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>>Hi, > > >>> > > >>>I found this picture. > > >>>Recreating this dress would take lots of pearls. > > >>>http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Pearldress/Pearldress.html > > >>>I would be to affraid that I will loose many pearls by wearing it > > >>> > > >>>Greetings, > > >>> Deredere > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>_______________________________________________ > > >>>h-costume mailing list > > >>>h-costume@mail.indra.com > > >>>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>_______________________________________________ > > >>h-costume mailing list > > >>h-costume@mail.indra.com > > >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >h-costume mailing list > > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 23:28:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h643ShHP025490 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:28:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h643R5Uw024128 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:27:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h643R2Ap024707; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h643QuAp024628 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:26:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.185.1d7ff5c6 (17228) for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:26:45 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <185.1d7ff5c6.2c364df5@aol.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:26:45 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/3/2003 10:22:31 PM Central Standard Time, drea@nospam writes: > >I've always felt uncomfortable with corsets that don't try to cover the > >entire areole: too much chance of "overflow" during the day. (Forget about > >"ToaP", these are more like T *overflowing* the P.) Add to this that I've > >lost rather a bit of weight this past year, and the ladies are more flesh > >than fat. Right now, "hoisting" tends to create the "Ugly Duchess" effect. > > Hm...maybe why wearing one's partlet closed was a sign of a married (i.e., > older and more mature) woman in the later 16th c... > True Dat. It's why I be lovin' the partlets and the higher bodices. -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 23:31:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h643VmHP025497 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:31:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h643U7Uw024304 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:30:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h643TxAp026350; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law8-oe60.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.195]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h643TpAp026237 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:29:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:29:46 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by law8-oe60.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 03:29:45 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <185.1d7ff5c6.2c364df5@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:30:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jul 2003 03:29:46.0149 (UTC) FILETIME=[841B2D50:01C341DC] X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hm...maybe why wearing one's partlet closed was a sign of a married (i.e., > older and more mature) woman in the later 16th c... I thought that was a myth?... Or, in any case, an overgeneralization... Has someone got more info on this? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 3 23:42:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h643ftHP025511 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:42:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h643eGUw024847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:40:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h643e6Ap002367; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:40:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h643e1Ap002302 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCoY4MoXgNvJHSi4oVGW98j377lF9hpzoaw==">; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 23:39:27 EDT Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H38DCJWS; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 23:39:27 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:03:19 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Message-ID: <20030703.220319.-289396275.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 11-18,20-32 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO While I can't claim to have made an exhaustive study of the issue, I have been looking carefully at period portraits to see if any pattern indicating this was common practice can be found. As far as I can tell, there's no evidence in portraits that this practice existed. The only reference that I'm aware of which mentions it is a letter from a foreign ambassador describing customs of the English Court during the reign of Elizabeth. As such, it's accuracy can be called into question. And if it was common practice that married ladies covered their chests, how do we explain all the married ladies in low, square cut bodices during the reigns immediately preceding that of Good Queen Bess? At this point in time, I'd put that 'open partlet=unmarried, closed partlet=married/older' down as another costume myth. Always eager to find differing sources! Karen On Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:30:14 -0400 "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" writes: > > Hm...maybe why wearing one's partlet closed was a sign of a married > (i.e., > > older and more mature) woman in the later 16th c... > > I thought that was a myth?... Or, in any case, an > overgeneralization... Has > someone got more info on this? > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 00:02:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6442LHP025548 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 00:02:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6440dUw026416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:00:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6440aTg013465; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:00:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6440XTg013428 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:00:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-027scfairp0319.dialsprint.net ([63.176.25.65] helo=faucet.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19YHkO-00049I-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 21:00:33 -0700 Message-ID: <3F050981.1010305@faucet.net> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 23:58:41 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations References: <20030703232042.J2570-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drea Leed wrote: > Hm...maybe why wearing one's partlet closed was a sign of a married (i.e., > older and more mature) woman in the later 16th c... I'm interested in seeing evidence for this--I've never even heard of it before, but I'm always wanting to learn more. At the moment, I think I'm with Karen, as I can find portraits of Elizabeth with ruffs (and partlets) both open and closed as the fashion demanded, unmarried ladies with closed ruffs/partlets, and married ladies with open ruffs/partlets. This is in a scan over several decades of the later 16th c., however, during which the fashion changed several times. I think you'd have to pick a span of five years and look at everything you could find from that span. Or maybe I'm not interpreting this correctly--by wearing the partlet closed do you mean simply without the triangular opening below the closed ruff, or do you mean a closed ruff as opposed to an open ruff? (Immersed in doing the 16th-century portion of the costume history lesson plan, so I've got Elizabethan on the brain. I mean, more than usual... :) ) Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 01:32:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h645WPHP025681 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 01:32:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h645UVUw002958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:30:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h645UMB9011301; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:30:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from trollnet.no (mail.trollnet.no [213.161.161.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h645UFB9011221 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:30:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brittdspp63nqs [213.161.187.168] by trollnet.no (SMTPD32-7.07) id A1153E100132; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 07:31:01 +0200 Message-ID: <012e01c341ed$5c1b6660$0b01a8c0@brittdspp63nqs> From: "Britt Halonen" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F049D4B.20604@cds.duke.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Margo's website doesn't like me Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 07:30:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Declude-Sender: bhalonen@trollnet.no [213.161.187.168] X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have no problems , the website showed up fine. Hilsen fra Britt Marie Halonen Lulit Gahkkorluodda 8 9520 Kautokeino, Norway bhalonen@trollnet.no http://community.webshots.com/user/briha100 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 01:59:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h645x1HP025704 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 01:59:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h645vDUw004540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:57:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h645vBow028336; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:57:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40413.mail.yahoo.com (web40413.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h645v7ow028236 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:57:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030704055702.34933.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.148.113.11] by web40413.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 22:57:02 PDT Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:57:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Quite Contrary To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200307032117.h63LHVPK017206@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Snail slime, was: Fake pearls X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 13:10:12 -0700 > From: kat@grendal.rain.com > Subject: [h-cost] Fake pearls, was: For people who thought my > partlet was a lot of work :-) > A 15th C Italian recipe for pearls (also from Lightbown) states > that > they use powdered crystal glass mixed with white of egg and snail > slime as the foundation of the pearl. OK, is it just me? Or does anyone else have visions of people squeezing snails for their slime? I mean, how in the world do you collect snail slime?!?!?!? Blech.... :-P A thoroughly grossed out Mary ===== "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before." ~ Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 01:59:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h645xpHP025707 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 01:59:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h645w6Uw004650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:58:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h645w5ow028666; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:58:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h645vRow028363 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:57:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-99-46.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.99.46]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFC27534; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 06:57:06 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <030c01c341f1$ac5ff740$91694ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030703.162047.-157147587.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Margo's website doesn't like me Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 07:01:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yep it is working for me now ! This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 02:10:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h646A8HP028993 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 02:10:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6468KUw005496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 00:08:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6468Iow002699; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 00:08:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net ([64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6468Gow002669 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 00:08:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (adsl-67-124-118-61.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [67.124.118.61])h6468E2q003956 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:08:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030703225853.00b566a0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 23:05:54 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Washing linen In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 05:45 PM 7/3/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > Was wondering if anyone else had heard of this method for softening > > linen: wash it in Dawn. I have a bunch of linen to prewash and this was > > recommended to me. Anyone else try it? > >Dawn being a fabric softener, I'd think it would soften any fabric. In my >experience, linen will soften as you wash it, no matter what you use. > > Correction: Dawn dishwashing liquid is not a fabric softener. It is, however, a terrific degreaser (it really "keeps grease away from your hands," as advertised), probably because it contains both anionic and nonanionic surfactants. As it removes "stuff," including whatever a mill adds to its fabric to finish it (sizing, starch, etc), using Dawn will give the impression of softening a fabric. You probably would get the same results from using a good laundry detergent (Tide, for example). One non-dish use for Dawn is scouring fleece before spinning. It breaks through the lanolin and removes it from the fleece much more efficiently than Orvus or other scouring agents. I've used it for years, and will never go back to using Orvus (too much work!). Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 02:11:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h646BcHP029548 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 02:11:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6469tUw005637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 00:09:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6469sow003581; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 00:09:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.186]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6469qow003561 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 00:09:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ppp-66-126-75-244.dialup.sndg02.pacbell.net (HELO sbcglobal.net) (lady?m?de?j%sbcglobal.net@66.126.75.244 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2003 06:09:52 -0000 Message-ID: <3F051A2F.3090108@sbcglobal.net> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 23:09:51 -0700 From: Maura Folsom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-CA; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-ca, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@net.indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Help! Re: h-costume Digests 368 - 372 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO HELP! After two days of pure computer hell, once I was able to get my mail again, Netscape ate these digests. I got the subject but no message. Since I have been following with interest some of the discussions, would someone be so kind as to forward them to me? Thank you! Maura Folsom _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 02:15:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h646FrHP031222 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 02:15:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h646E4Uw006029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 00:14:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h646E3ow005549; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 00:14:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h646E1ow005525 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 00:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net ([67.124.118.61]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HHH005WELBBFO@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 23:14:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 23:11:39 -0700 From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Book -Painting and the Market in Early Modern Antwerp In-reply-to: <000101c341bb$6f4bbc30$6601a8c0@SG01> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030703230857.00b45e00@pop.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:32 PM 7/3/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Argh! I am getting itchy fingers on this one!! Especially since the >cover painting is one I have not seen before! Thought you all might be >interested! > >http://www.yale.edu/yup/images/0300072392.jpg Drat! I just tried to order this, and the bookseller had it listed as available by mistake. With a cover like that, I'm really going to have to try to find a copy (especially as I'm supposed to build an upper-middle-class Flemish woman's dress for myself in the next few months!). Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 02:16:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h646GlHP031556 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 02:16:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h646F4Uw006178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 00:15:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h646F4ow006023; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 00:15:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h646F1ow005973 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 00:15:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1e8.c62e2b4 (4592) for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 02:14:53 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <1e8.c62e2b4.2c36755d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 02:14:53 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Washing linen To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/4/03 2:10:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dme_maud@pacbell.net writes: > Correction: Dawn dishwashing liquid is not a fabric softener. It is, > however, a terrific degreaser (it really "keeps grease away from your > hands," as advertised), probably because it contains both anionic and > nonanionic surfactants. As it removes "stuff," including whatever a mill > adds to its fabric to finish it (sizing, starch, etc), using Dawn will give > the impression of softening a fabric. You probably would get the same > results from using a good laundry detergent (Tide, for example). Dawn is also really good for stains on anything vaguely washable by hand. Pre-treating with Dawn and letting it soak in warm water will generally get the stain out, or at least loosened. Y'know, Dawn, if I didn't know better, I'd say you were advertising yourself! Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 03:35:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h647ZuHP029090 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 03:35:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h647YGUw011084 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 01:34:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h647YEt1005253; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 01:34:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h647YBt1005186 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 01:34:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.4a.1f4466de (17228) for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 03:34:02 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <4a.1f4466de.2c3687e9@aol.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 03:34:01 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] *English* Working class X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow, there really isn't much out there about english working class (Elizabethan) in the way of period illustrations, eh? I've seen the Fete at B-something, the three London Gentlewomen (the fishmonger's wife) and a few others. I'm doing a couple of lower class outfits based on the girl in the blue bodice from the Fete at B-somethingsomething and I got a question for ya'll. Do english working class chicks of the 'bethan era wear their partlets outside their bodices? It's hard to tell in the Fete. And the fishmonger's wife is wearing that little shoulder cape thing. Would this be totally wrong? : shift -> kirtle (boned) ->partlet with a ruff (small but there, like the fishmonger's wife) inside -> outer dress (front laced through lacing rings but closed or nearly closed ala Fete girl -> black wool partlet outside gown ->apron. -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 03:37:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h647b4HP029425 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 03:37:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h647ZNUw011213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 01:35:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h647ZMt1005812; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 01:35:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41507.mail.yahoo.com (web41507.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h647ZKt1005740 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 01:35:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030704073515.49753.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 08:35:15 BST Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 08:35:15 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > Hm...maybe why wearing one's partlet closed was a sign of a married (i.e., > > older and more mature) woman in the later 16th c... > > I thought that was a myth?... Or, in any case, an overgeneralization... Has > someone got more info on this? If I may say so, while not knowing aything about this particular occurrence, having indulged in Early Modern Women Studies as part of my research, I must say that there is surprisingly LITTLE if any evidence for anything denoting married or unmarried status in clothing. Admittedly, I am looking at a period 50 - 100 years later, but this just as a small hint that it may well be a myth. Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 04:29:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h648TNHP019566 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 04:29:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h648QIUw015677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 02:26:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h648QH6J027364; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 02:26:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h648QE6J027349 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 02:26:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-65-29-25-230.mn.rr.com [65.29.25.230])h648QC7c006162 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 03:26:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030704031654.03178a90@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 03:29:15 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] *English* Working class In-Reply-To: <4a.1f4466de.2c3687e9@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:34 AM 7/4/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Wow, there really isn't much out there about english working class >(Elizabethan) in the way of period illustrations, eh? I've seen the Fete >at B-something, >the three London Gentlewomen (the fishmonger's wife) and a few others. I'm >doing a couple of lower class outfits based on the girl in the blue bodice >from >the Fete at B-somethingsomething and I got a question for ya'll. Do english >working class chicks of the 'bethan era wear their partlets outside their >bodices? It's hard to tell in the Fete. And the fishmonger's wife is >wearing that >little shoulder cape thing. Would this be totally wrong? : shift -> kirtle >(boned) ->partlet with a ruff (small but there, like the fishmonger's >wife) inside >-> outer dress (front laced through lacing rings but closed or nearly closed >ala Fete girl -> black wool partlet outside gown ->apron. > >-Sarra Wryght >Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html >Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ Actually, I don't think they are partlets at all. I've looked at over 800 16th century English wills and inventories from the labouring and merchant classes and out of the approx 1500 clothing references there are only 7 mentions of partlets - six of which were velvet and one was satin. They were all in wills from the 1540s. On the other hand, there are a great many references to shirts, smocks, and neckerchers. So, what I think you're seeing in the Bermondsley and other images is the shirt or smock not a partlet in most cases. Besides, with the neckerchers the two women are wearing in the image on your site, it strikes me as rather redundant to wear a partlet as well. Oh and the one mention I had of ruffs and the few of shirt bands, they were listed separate from the shirts and smocks. Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 08:57:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64CvxHP029772 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 08:57:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64CsUUw003825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 06:54:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64CsOmf025678; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 06:54:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64CsNmf025631 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 06:54:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m12.in-tch.com [216.166.191.12]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h64CZIT21066 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 06:35:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F057965.CA7BF872@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 06:56:05 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Washing linen References: <1e8.c62e2b4.2c36755d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And in a completely non-costume related bit, Dawn liquid all does a great job disbursing paint evenly. Well, at least, Christmas tree paint. You may be thinking "???", but some species of evergreens used for Christmas trees range naturally in color, some even yellowish, and this can be counteracted, a while prior to harvest, by spraying them with a special, thinned mixture of green paint, which helps act as a sunscreen for the tree's needles. My Dad always "boosted" it with some Dawn. How's that for completely odd trivia for your day? --sue, getting ready for 4th of July stuff...... IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 7/4/03 2:10:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > dme_maud@pacbell.net writes: > > > Correction: Dawn dishwashing liquid is not a fabric softener. It is, > > however, a terrific degreaser (it really "keeps grease away from your > > hands," as advertised), probably because it contains both anionic and > > nonanionic surfactants. As it removes "stuff," including whatever a mill > > adds to its fabric to finish it (sizing, starch, etc), using Dawn will give > > the impression of softening a fabric. You probably would get the same > > results from using a good laundry detergent (Tide, for example). > > Dawn is also really good for stains on anything vaguely washable by hand. > Pre-treating with Dawn and letting it soak in warm water will generally get the > stain out, or at least loosened. > Y'know, Dawn, if I didn't know better, I'd say you were advertising yourself! > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 09:55:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64Dt7HP029892 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:55:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64DrLUw007823 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 07:53:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64DrKSV017821; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 07:53:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64Dr7SV017732 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 07:53:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDD6D36B60 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:53:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19YQzq-0000tF-00 for ; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 09:53:06 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] *English* Working class In-Reply-To: <4a.1f4466de.2c3687e9@aol.com> References: <4a.1f4466de.2c3687e9@aol.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:53:06 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sarra wrote: > Wow, there really isn't much out there about english working class > (Elizabethan) in the way of period illustrations, eh? I've seen the Fete at B-something, > the three London Gentlewomen (the fishmonger's wife) and a few others. I'm > doing a couple of lower class outfits based on the girl in the blue bodice from > the Fete at B-somethingsomething and I got a question for ya'll. Do english > working class chicks of the 'bethan era wear their partlets outside their > bodices? It's hard to tell in the Fete. And the fishmonger's wife is wearing that > little shoulder cape thing. Would this be totally wrong? : shift -> kirtle > (boned) ->partlet with a ruff (small but there, like the fishmonger's wife) inside > -> outer dress (front laced through lacing rings but closed or nearly closed > ala Fete girl -> black wool partlet outside gown ->apron. Without the whole Flemish genre painting thing, you have to go looking outside of "real art" for English working class stuff. Woodcuts are your best bet, but tend to show men disproportionately. A couple of sources you might find useful are Ashelford's "Dress in the age of Elizabeth I" which has a chapter on clothes for lower classes IIRC, and the "Dress of the common Man/Woman" pamphlets from Stuart Press - Sykes Sutlery carries them. Full bibliographic info can be found hereish: http://elizabethangeek.com/biblio/browse.mhtml?subject=28 Oh, and the rest of you can consider that to be an announcement of sorts... http://elizabethangeek.com/biblio/ is a bibliography for all things Elizabethan. It's in progress at the moment, but I've entered all my costuming books and most of my textiles stuff already, so it might be of interest to some. And it will of course continue to grow. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 10:53:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64ErDHP030021 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 10:53:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64EpDUw011267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 08:51:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64EpBfl011469; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 08:51:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h64Ep8fl011402 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 08:51:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWrnHziXcMw8Tztrkv/bhDicWsJijj+vcNQ==">; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 07:50:40 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H39KRLDM; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 07:50:40 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 06:13:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another very cool site for artifacts Message-ID: <20030704.061315.-357767.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Great site! Thanks for sharing. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 10:58:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64Ew4HP030052 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 10:58:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64EuIUw011560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 08:56:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64EuFLE013125; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 08:56:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h64EuDLE013082 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 08:56:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWrnHziXcMw8TCFhsmPsvBO/0y9noGrJ5tw==">; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 07:55:47 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H39K2YE5; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 07:55:47 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 06:18:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Modern fabric question Message-ID: <20030704.061853.-357767.1.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-8 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Polyester is difficult to press creases or to remove wrinkles. HOWEVER, if you spray the fabric with a mixture of water and white vinegar (about a quarter of a cup vinegar to a pint of water, but it isn't critical) and then press it should remove the wrinkles. Or you can dip a pressing cloth in the vinegar/water mixture and use that. I gave up messing with the spray and just use the mixture to fill my steam iron. Keeps the iron clean and presses anything. The smell goes away almost immediately when the fabric is cool. Good Luck Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 11:30:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64FUCHP030135 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:30:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64FSCUw013273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:28:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64FSBLE025628; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:28:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64FS8LE025543 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:28:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EC5B1A0154 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:28:02 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F059DC6.1020806@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 17:31:18 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from vakation References: <3F044B65.7030103@kabelfoon.nl><002f01c34199$4c3af5c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3F0491BE.3050900@kabelfoon.nl> <000701c341a8$ef0b6b40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Thanks! I would love to have a scan of there colour card and there adress. Maby I can visit them some day. But I won't need it for this dress. I went shopping for a birthday present for a friend today. I didn't find her a present but found some lovely blue silk..... http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Bluedress/Bluedress.html Greetings, Deredere Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Hi Deredere >That is a beautifull portrait. >Well the taffeta i baught in England. James Hare is the company, they have a >large range of collours to choose from in silk taffeta. >If you would like to have a scan of their colour chart, i would gladly help >you. They take online orders. > >Bjarne > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Deredere Galbraith" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 10:27 PM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from vakation > > > > >>Thank you! >>It was in germany at castle Burgau near Duren. >> >>I love your robe a la francaise! >>What kind of silk did you use? >>It looks a lot like the fabric in a painting of Maria di Cosimo wich I >>would like to recreate >>http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Bluedress/Bluedress.html >> >>Greetings, >> Deredere >> >> >> >> >>>Hi Deredere, >>>Lovely pictures, you looked great, and congratulations with the avard! >>>Where did this take place? It looks so good, is it Norwegian? >>>Please forgive me my ignorance, i have no idea where it was, but it looks >>>soo great! >>> >>>Bjarne >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Leif og Bjarne Drews >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 11:35:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64FZeHP030143 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:35:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64FXZUw013585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:33:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64FXYLE027898; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:33:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64FXVLE027869 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:33:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f92.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.146]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1754D5EE170 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:33:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000501c34241$b80a5c20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F044B65.7030103@kabelfoon.nl><002f01c34199$4c3af5c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><3F0491BE.3050900@kabelfoon.nl><000701c341a8$ef0b6b40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3F059DC6.1020806@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from vakation Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:34:12 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ta ta!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is much better colour Deredere, Congratus...................... Sometimes, luck is just right the corner Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from vakation > Hi, > > Thanks! > I would love to have a scan of there colour card and there adress. > Maby I can visit them some day. > But I won't need it for this dress. I went shopping for a birthday > present for a friend today. > I didn't find her a present but found some lovely blue silk..... > > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Bluedress/Bluedress.html > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > >Hi Deredere > >That is a beautifull portrait. > >Well the taffeta i baught in England. James Hare is the company, they have a > >large range of collours to choose from in silk taffeta. > >If you would like to have a scan of their colour chart, i would gladly help > >you. They take online orders. > > > >Bjarne > > > > > > > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews > >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Deredere Galbraith" > >To: "Historical Costume" > >Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 10:27 PM > >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from vakation > > > > > > > > > >>Thank you! > >>It was in germany at castle Burgau near Duren. > >> > >>I love your robe a la francaise! > >>What kind of silk did you use? > >>It looks a lot like the fabric in a painting of Maria di Cosimo wich I > >>would like to recreate > >>http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Bluedress/Bluedress.html > >> > >>Greetings, > >> Deredere > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>Hi Deredere, > >>>Lovely pictures, you looked great, and congratulations with the avard! > >>>Where did this take place? It looks so good, is it Norwegian? > >>>Please forgive me my ignorance, i have no idea where it was, but it looks > >>>soo great! > >>> > >>>Bjarne > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Leif og Bjarne Drews > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>h-costume mailing list > >>h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 11:37:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64FbGHP030152 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:37:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64FZPUw013706 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:35:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64FZPLE028478; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:35:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64FZMLE028458 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:35:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f92.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.146]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1DC515EE12D for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:35:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000b01c34241$fac29730$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F04E5F4.C07D02DF@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:36:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Now that makes sence. Anyone wants to enlighten an ignorant male member? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 4:27 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt > ROTFLMAO! > --sue (who does just that, as she had a *good* set of girls) > > Kirrily Robert wrote: > > > > TOAP is "tits on a platter". > > > > K. > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 12:30:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64GUmHP030359 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:30:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64GRiUw017306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 10:27:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64GRgX4020707; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 10:27:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64GReX4020689 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 10:27:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip46.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.46]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50291703EA for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:27:39 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 09:25:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] For people who thought my partlet was a lot of work:-) Message-ID: <3F054813.684.3C906C14@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3F04E6EF.3ED0E0BD@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > There's something in one of my costuming books about fake pearls in > the 16th c. IIRC, the exterior coating can be done with ground-up > fish scales. --sue Right. Isinglass. I have seen that too, but I couldn't find the citation when I went looking for info on fake pearls. (Didn't have time for a more exhaustive search.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 12:31:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64GV6HP030362 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:31:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64GS6Uw017338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 10:28:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64GS6X4020925; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 10:28:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64GRgX4020705 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 10:27:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip46.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.46]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05B1C703B7 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:27:41 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 09:25:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Message-ID: <3F054814.9774.3C906CDF@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20030703.220319.-289396275.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > And if it was common practice that married ladies covered > their chests, how do we explain all the married ladies in low, square > cut bodices during the reigns immediately preceding that of Good Queen > Bess? At this point in time, I'd put that 'open partlet=unmarried, > closed partlet=married/older' down as another costume myth. I agree. In looking at the portraits, it almost seems more likely that covered=unmarried and uncovered=married. Most of the really elaborate partlets seem to be on the young women. (And looking at EI doesn't count, since she considered herself "married" to her country and did several dress things which were more for married than unmarried women.) Heaven only knows that they showed a lot more than that during James I/VI reign! (Which is why we have all those lovely repainted portraits which make it look like they had bustlines with nipples which were seated at waist level and all the woodcuts with strategic scratch marks where uncovered nipples would be.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 13:34:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64HYYHP030517 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:34:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64HW7Uw021015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:32:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64HW6V6014062; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:32:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64HW3V6014042 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:32:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h64HW2SH017352 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 10:32:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.184] (tnt-1-248.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.184]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64HVvjN017255 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 10:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000b01c34241$fac29730$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <3F04E5F4.C07D02DF@in-tch.com> <000b01c34241$fac29730$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 10:19:07 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 5:36 PM +0200 7/4/03, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Sue Clemenger" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 4:27 AM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt > > >> ROTFLMAO! >> --sue (who does just that, as she had a *good* set of girls) >> >> Kirrily Robert wrote: >> > > > > TOAP is "tits on a platter". >Now that makes sence. >Anyone wants to enlighten an ignorant male member? > >Bjarne Well, with all the talk about breasts, I suppose we can talk about "male members" too! (English slang note to Bjarne: "male member" is sometimes used in trashy romance novels as a euphemism for penis.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 13:57:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64HvJHP030591 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:57:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64Ht9Uw022282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:55:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64Ht9YI022191; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:55:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64Ht6YI022177 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:55:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f92.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.146]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DCAEA5EE001 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:55:05 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000901c34255$83082bb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F04E5F4.C07D02DF@in-tch.com> <000b01c34241$fac29730$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:55:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I totally missed that, am i stupid or something! Bjarne I give up!! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Rose Jones" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt > At 5:36 PM +0200 7/4/03, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Sue Clemenger" > >To: "Historical Costume" > >Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 4:27 AM > >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt > > > > > >> ROTFLMAO! > >> --sue (who does just that, as she had a *good* set of girls) > >> > >> Kirrily Robert wrote: > >> > > > > > TOAP is "tits on a platter". > > >Now that makes sence. > >Anyone wants to enlighten an ignorant male member? > > > >Bjarne > > Well, with all the talk about breasts, I suppose we can talk > about "male members" too! (English slang note to Bjarne: "male > member" is sometimes used in trashy romance novels as a euphemism for > penis.) > > Heather > -- > ***** > Heather Rose Jones > hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu > ***** > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 14:09:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64I9tHP030680 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:09:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64I7oUw023002 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:07:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64I7nYI026535; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:07:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4.mebtel.net [64.40.67.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64I7kYI026524 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:07:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-71.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.71]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37EF52787C for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:00:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F05D0CC.6050908@grics.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 14:09:00 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Book -Painting and the Market in Early Modern Antwerp References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030703230857.00b45e00@pop.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030703230857.00b45e00@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Could start here - if they're out of it, you could use the data for a ABE search... http://www.yale.edu/yup/books/072392.htm Edwinna Information Junkie Dawn Jacobson wrote: > At 04:32 PM 7/3/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >> Argh! I am getting itchy fingers on this one!! Especially since the >> cover painting is one I have not seen before! Thought you all might be >> interested! >> >> http://www.yale.edu/yup/images/0300072392.jpg > > > Drat! I just tried to order this, and the bookseller had it listed as > available by mistake. > > With a cover like that, I'm really going to have to try to find a copy > (especially as I'm supposed to build an upper-middle-class Flemish > woman's dress for myself in the next few months!). > > Dawn > > > Dawn Jacobson > Vallejo, CA, USA > > Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 14:12:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64ICFHP030688 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:12:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64IAMUw023121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:10:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64IALYI027479; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:10:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64IAIYI027445 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:10:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f92.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.146]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E2D825EE152 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:10:17 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000d01c34257$a1bde2f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F04E5F4.C07D02DF@in-tch.com> <000b01c34241$fac29730$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:11:02 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok, sorry, welll i am really slow today, just got home from work, long hours and did not get my brains with me. Ok, well that is interresting, never heard that before. This is the same as: Bjarne is the same as Dick and Cock Robin Willie and so further, comeon ladies, you know what i meen, well, no further................... But what has that to do with corsets and tits on a platter? :-) :-) All smiles here Sorry ladies Does size really matter? I say yes!!!! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Rose Jones" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt > At 5:36 PM +0200 7/4/03, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Sue Clemenger" > >To: "Historical Costume" > >Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 4:27 AM > >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt > > > > > >> ROTFLMAO! > >> --sue (who does just that, as she had a *good* set of girls) > >> > >> Kirrily Robert wrote: > >> > > > > > TOAP is "tits on a platter". > > >Now that makes sence. > >Anyone wants to enlighten an ignorant male member? > > > >Bjarne > > Well, with all the talk about breasts, I suppose we can talk > about "male members" too! (English slang note to Bjarne: "male > member" is sometimes used in trashy romance novels as a euphemism for > penis.) > > Heather > -- > ***** > Heather Rose Jones > hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu > ***** > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 14:23:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64INSHP030711 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:23:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64ILlUw023797 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:21:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64ILkYI001806; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:21:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64ILhYI001782 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:21:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.249.181.41] (pool181-26.patriot.net [209.249.181.26]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h64ILfUa012558 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:21:42 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000d01c34257$a1bde2f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <3F04E5F4.C07D02DF@in-tch.com> <000b01c34241$fac29730$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <000d01c34257$a1bde2f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:21:42 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok, I'll give it a try! We speak in euphamisms or use abbreviations for some things, but please be aware that we are many languages and cultures. While it's funny to those who understand it, if we really want to share information we have to be more clear! :-) Some women wear corsets or stays that lift their breasts very high and they look like they're being presented on a platter. Tits on a platter, or TOAP. Other discussion went on at the same time regarding the best way to position oneself to look the same as the portraits of the period. When you wrote "male member", we just kept on giggling. -Carol >Ok, sorry, welll i am really slow today, just got home from work, long hours >and did not get my brains with me. >Ok, well that is interresting, never heard that before. >This is the same as: Bjarne is the same as Dick and Cock Robin Willie and so >further, comeon ladies, you know what i meen, well, no >further................... >But what has that to do with corsets and tits on a platter? > >:-) :-) >All smiles here >Sorry ladies > >Does size really matter? >I say yes!!!! > > >Bjarne > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 14:25:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64IPaHP030722 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:25:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64INsUw023871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:23:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64INrYI002568; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:23:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64INpYI002560 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-001scfairp0273.dialsprint.net ([63.184.193.19] helo=faucet.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19YVDr-000275-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 11:23:51 -0700 Message-ID: <3F05D3D5.1060200@faucet.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 14:21:57 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Book -Painting and the Market in Early Modern Antwerp References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030703230857.00b45e00@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn Jacobson wrote: > > Drat! I just tried to order this, and the bookseller had it listed as > available by mistake. > > With a cover like that, I'm really going to have to try to find a copy > (especially as I'm supposed to build an upper-middle-class Flemish > woman's dress for myself in the next few months!). Amazon.com has it, and there are a number of copies at addall.com Happy Shopping, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 14:27:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64IRnHP030729 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:27:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64IQ3Uw024086 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64IQ2YI003690; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h64IQ0YI003655 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-64-175-43-66.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@64.175.43.66 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2003 18:25:59 -0000 Message-ID: <005201c34259$b45d1eb0$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.0.0.25.2.20030704031654.03178a90@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] *English* Working class Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:25:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Subject: Re: [h-cost] *English* Working class > > Actually, I don't think they are partlets at all. I've looked at over 800 > 16th century English wills and inventories from the labouring and merchant > classes and out of the approx 1500 clothing references there are only 7 > mentions of partlets - six of which were velvet and one was satin. They > were all in wills from the 1540s. On the other hand, there are a great > many references to shirts, smocks, and neckerchers. So, what I think > you're seeing in the Bermondsley and other images is the shirt or smock not > a partlet in most cases. Besides, with the neckerchers the two women are > wearing in the image on your site, it strikes me as rather redundant to > wear a partlet as well. Oh and the one mention I had of ruffs and the few > of shirt bands, they were listed separate from the shirts and smocks. Well this brings up an interesting question -- Danielle, maybe you can shed some light! I first started my Elizabethan costuming based on the Winter/Savoy book, which as we all know cuts LOTS of corners. So to me, a "partlet" was a high-necked shift that was open down the center front. The issue here is that if one wants to wear one's "partlet" (in the above definition -- hence the quotes) open, you basically have nothing between you and your corset or bodice in front. Once I discovered the whole partlet-as-a-garment-separate-from-the-shift, it made sense to me. You'd have your low-necked shift between you and your corset/bodice, and then the partlet on top of that (which could be worn open or closed). The thing that puzzled me (and granted, I'm haven't read as much as I should on this period) is that I know in the period of Mary I, a partlet was an outer garment (meaning worn over the bodice). So -- was there a change where partlets (separate from shifts) began to be worn under the bodice? Or is the whole partlet thing (in Elizabeth's era) just a big costumer's myth? - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 14:30:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64IUZHP030739 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:30:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64ISgUw024323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:28:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64ISfYI005093; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:28:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64ISdYI005058 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:28:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h64IScSH018027 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:28:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.184] (tnt-1-248.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.184]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64ISXjN017992 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:28:35 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000901c34255$83082bb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <3F04E5F4.C07D02DF@in-tch.com> <000b01c34241$fac29730$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <000901c34255$83082bb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:29:20 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I totally missed that, am i stupid or something! > >Bjarne > >I give up!! No no no no no -- of course you're not stupid! It's the sort of thing that any non-native speaker could come up with in any language. I wouldn't even have mentioned it except that the thread was already ... *ahem* ... a bit risque. Heather >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Heather Rose Jones" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 7:19 PM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt > > >> At 5:36 PM +0200 7/4/03, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >> >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Sue Clemenger" >> >To: "Historical Costume" >> >Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 4:27 AM >> >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt >> > >> > >> >> ROTFLMAO! >> >> --sue (who does just that, as she had a *good* set of girls) >> >> >> >> Kirrily Robert wrote: >> >> > >> > > > TOAP is "tits on a platter". >> >> >Now that makes sence. >> >Anyone wants to enlighten an ignorant male member? >> > >> >Bjarne >> >> Well, with all the talk about breasts, I suppose we can talk >> about "male members" too! (English slang note to Bjarne: "male >> member" is sometimes used in trashy romance novels as a euphemism for >> penis.) >> >> Heather >> -- >> ***** >> Heather Rose Jones >> hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu >> ***** >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 14:32:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64IW9HP030743 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:32:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64IUMUw024486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:30:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64IUMYI005749; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:30:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64IUJYI005731 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:30:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-001scfairp0273.dialsprint.net ([63.184.193.19] helo=faucet.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19YVK7-0001Ri-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 11:30:19 -0700 Message-ID: <3F05D55A.8070801@faucet.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 14:28:26 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] *English* Working class References: <4a.1f4466de.2c3687e9@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kirrily Robert wrote: > "Dress of the common Man/Woman" pamphlets from Stuart Press - Sykes > Sutlery carries them. Full bibliographic info can be found hereish: > http://elizabethangeek.com/biblio/browse.mhtml?subject=28 I've never seen those before--are they good? They sound interesting. How much of the info is prior to 1600? > Oh, and the rest of you can consider that to be an announcement of > sorts... http://elizabethangeek.com/biblio/ is a bibliography for all > things Elizabethan. That's cool! Thanks. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 14:45:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64Ij1HP030776 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:45:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64IhOUw025933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:43:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64IhMYI012108; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:43:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64IhJYI012063 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:43:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f92.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.146]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E69485EE10B for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:43:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004001c3425c$41c50040$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:44:10 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] Advice needed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Back to reallity, I am making a Caraco Jacket and Skirt for the lady i am escorting to Sweden. I told you that before, but!! I have leftover blue silk taffeta, enough for 3 widths of fabric and i would like to make a jacket to match the skirt. Well hmmm. i am not skilled in knowing so much about the fahion so i would like to ask your oppinnion!!!!!!!! I considered to make the Caraco jacket in Janet Arnolds book, but i would like to make some alterations' I would like to make a jacket wich has a stomacher opening front and curved waistline to the C:B And Cartridgepleated (little skirt) from the stomacher to the CB. Is this fashionable from 1770 and onwards? Do any of you have any ideas of how i should make the sleaves? Should i make some cuffs? I plan to make the jacket in some grey damask and the skirt in leftover blue taffeta. And i want to trim the bust with blue taffeta ribbon covered with silver lace wich i have made myself Any advices? Plan to make a little diary about this project next week Bjarne Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 14:51:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64IpqHP032042 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:51:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64InoUw026317 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:49:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64InnYI014459; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:49:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64InlYI014453 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:49:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19YVcx-0001hR-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 11:49:47 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:49:54 -0700 Message-ID: <001001c3425d$0f2c5060$6601a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <000b01c34241$fac29730$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO LOL! I had to take a look in my "Adult" mail folder because it doesn't usually fill up so fast. Imagine my surprise when it was full of H-Cost emails! I was filtering out all those "Want the biggest "you know what?"" emails. Bjarne, you sure are a great sport!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 14:51:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64IpxHP032072 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:51:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64Ij7Uw026074 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:45:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64Ij7YI012793; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:45:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4.mebtel.net [64.40.67.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64Ij4YI012784 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:45:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-71.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.71]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EED8B2771E for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:37:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F05D96B.8000404@grics.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 14:45:47 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <153.213cc87b.2c363be3@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <153.213cc87b.2c363be3@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] FYI Margo's other website X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ...is http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm Her personal one. Info, funnies and stuff. LLWatts@aol.com wrote: >> > I just checked and apparently I don't have permission ot view the site >> >> >>> either1 Who knew?! >>> >>> > >Funny, I just clicked the bookmark and it came up. That was around 9 PM >Central Daylight Time. Now, it tried to automatically route me to a >high-resolution with-frames version -- maybe it was down for upgrading? > >Leah >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 14:57:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64IvFHP001573 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:57:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64ItOUw026611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:55:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64ItM3Q016621; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:55:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64ItI3Q016591 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:55:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 207-237-35-214.s214.tnt1.nywct.ny.dialup.rcn.com ([207.237.35.214] helo=rcn.com) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 19YViI-0006h5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 14:55:18 -0400 Message-ID: <3F05CD91.2000402@rcn.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 14:55:13 -0400 From: Catelli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200307041800.h64I0bYK024111@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Fake pearls X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I thought isenglass was another name for mica? It's the commonly found sparkly mineral in an awful lot of rocks, and can sometimes be found in large slabs on its own. Somewhat transparent on its own & refractory; it's been used in stoves and fireplaces for wiindows. Ann in CT _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 15:04:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64J4UHP001627 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:04:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64J2hUw027044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:02:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64J2g3Q019649; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:02:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64J2b3Q019617 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:02:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f92.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.146]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C96035EE15E for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:02:36 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <005401c3425e$f4d1e020$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001001c3425d$0f2c5060$6601a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:03:29 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Saragrace Naughty me::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::.. Sorry I really am a bad person. I should go to bed now A good story for you and the ladies would be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you are not merried and you would like an endoved male person. It goes for a merried person two!!!!!!!!!!!111111111 Give him a doubble Whiskey or Bourbon Meassure his fingertips to his underarm If he can take his longfinger down to the underarm Then he has a long Bjarne!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111 Time for Coffe! Whopsadausi You are surely right about the .................. May i take up another poll? In the sum,mertime? Do you prefer cut or uncut? DICK Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 8:49 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt > LOL! I had to take a look in my "Adult" mail folder because it doesn't > usually fill up so fast. Imagine my surprise when it was full of H-Cost > emails! I was filtering out all those "Want the biggest "you know > what?"" emails. Bjarne, you sure are a great sport!! > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 15:32:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64JWQHP001733 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:32:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64JPeUw028687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:25:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64JPd3Q028133; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:25:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h64JPa3Q028112 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:25:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 60553 invoked by uid 1005); 4 Jul 2003 19:25:27 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.074783 secs); 04 Jul 2003 19:25:27 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.074783 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 4 Jul 2003 19:25:27 -0000 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:25:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] *English* Working class In-Reply-To: <3F05D55A.8070801@faucet.net> Message-ID: <20030704152124.W13623-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've found them to be very useful, though somewhat later in period than my specialty (their main body of research evidence centers around the early 17th c., rather than the mid-to late 16th c.). Due to their method of publication--copied pamphlets--and the lack of good copyright-free pics, the illustrations are a bit scanty. But the authors do reference some delightfully obscure and unknown texts and manuscripts, and do a great job (in my opinion) of laying out evidence for certain garment trends without making overly broad assumptions. Definitely worth adding to your library. Great bibliography site, btw! Drea On Fri, 4 Jul 2003, Melanie Schuessler wrote: > Kirrily Robert wrote: > > > "Dress of the common Man/Woman" pamphlets from Stuart Press - Sykes > > Sutlery carries them. Full bibliographic info can be found hereish: > > http://elizabethangeek.com/biblio/browse.mhtml?subject=28 i> > I've never seen those before--are they good? They sound interesting. > How much of the info is prior to 1600? > > > Oh, and the rest of you can consider that to be an announcement of > > sorts... http://elizabethangeek.com/biblio/ is a bibliography for all > > things Elizabethan. > > That's cool! Thanks. > > Melanie Schuessler > http://www.faucet.net/costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 15:50:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64JoTHP001850 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:50:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64JmaUw001018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:48:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64JmP3Q010426; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:48:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h64Jlc3Q009684 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:47:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 6407 invoked by uid 1005); 4 Jul 2003 19:47:28 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.066049 secs); 04 Jul 2003 19:47:28 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.066049 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 4 Jul 2003 19:47:28 -0000 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:47:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] *English* Working class In-Reply-To: <4a.1f4466de.2c3687e9@aol.com> Message-ID: <20030704154122.G13623-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Wow, there really isn't much out there about english working class > (Elizabethan) in the way of period illustrations, eh? I've seen the Fete at B-something, > the three London Gentlewomen (the fishmonger's wife) and a few others. I'm > doing a couple of lower class outfits based on the girl in the blue bodice from > the Fete at B-somethingsomething and I got a question for ya'll. Do english > working class chicks of the 'bethan era wear their partlets outside their > bodices? It's hard to tell in the Fete. And the fishmonger's wife is wearing that > little shoulder cape thing. Would this be totally wrong? : shift -> kirtle > (boned) ->partlet with a ruff (small but there, like the fishmonger's wife) inside > -> outer dress (front laced through lacing rings but closed or nearly closed > ala Fete girl -> black wool partlet outside gown ->apron. I'd go with this analysis, too, but without the black outer partlet. Looks like she's wearing a shoulder-cape cloth instead. The only questionable item is the partlet; the ruff that's showing could be: a) a ruffed partlet worn over the shift and kirtle and under the gown b) the ruff of a high-bodied smock worn under the kirtle. c) a ruffed partlet worn over the outer gown & under the shoulder cape. All three are valid authentic ensembles of the time; but based upon other pictures I've seen (Flemish, admittedly, but all that's really out there on the subject), I'd choose the low-necked smock -> kirtle -> gown -> ruffed partlet option as the most likely. Good luck with your project, Drea > > -Sarra Wryght > Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html > Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 15:50:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64JorHP001854 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:50:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64Jn7Uw001078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:49:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64Jn63Q010878; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:49:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h64Jlm3Q009852 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:47:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 93000 invoked by uid 1005); 4 Jul 2003 19:40:58 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.078349 secs); 04 Jul 2003 19:40:58 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.078349 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 4 Jul 2003 19:40:58 -0000 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:41:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] *English* Working class In-Reply-To: <005201c34259$b45d1eb0$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> Message-ID: <20030704152552.P13623-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Once I discovered the whole partlet-as-a-garment-separate-from-the-shift, it > made sense to me. You'd have your low-necked shift between you and your > corset/bodice, and then the partlet on top of that (which could be worn open > or closed). The thing that puzzled me (and granted, I'm haven't read as > much as I should on this period) is that I know in the period of Mary I, a > partlet was an outer garment (meaning worn over the bodice). > > So -- was there a change where partlets (separate from shifts) began to be > worn under the bodice? Or is the whole partlet thing (in Elizabeth's era) > just a big costumer's myth? That is the $10,000 question. Partlets worn outside the garment show up a) in Tudor court pics of the 1530s-1550s, and b) in Flemish genre art depicting lower class folk from the 1550s-1570s. When it comes to partlets worn /under/ the other gowns...that's where the fun begins, as there's really no tried-and-true way to tell if a woman's wearing a separate partlet, or a shirt w/ sleeves. Danielle's correct in pointing out that there are precious few references to partlets in the later 16th century. I've been reading through Queen E's wardrobe accounts for a while now, and out of 170 pages of listings, only one partlet has shown up. The other place I've seen partlets mentioned is in the effects of a c. 1600 welsh servingwoman, where a "ruffed partlets" are mentioned a few times. Of course, there's been no mention of smocks in Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts either, as they were made by her Chamberers. So, either partlets weren't as widespread as the savoy & winter book says they were...or else they were considered "underwear" like smocks & such, which recieved precious little attention in wardrobe accounts of the time. It's a fascinating topic, and I hope someone *cough*Danielle*cough* puts together a definitive examination of it someday. ;) Drea > - Kendra > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 15:54:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64JsSHP001860 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:54:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64JqnUw001298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:52:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64Jqn3Q012450; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:52:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h64Jql3Q012439 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:52:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 17957 invoked by uid 1005); 4 Jul 2003 19:52:38 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.068577 secs); 04 Jul 2003 19:52:38 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.068577 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 4 Jul 2003 19:52:38 -0000 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:52:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations In-Reply-To: <3F050981.1010305@faucet.net> Message-ID: <20030704154740.V13623-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Hm...maybe why wearing one's partlet closed was a sign of a married (i.e., > > older and more mature) woman in the later 16th c... > > I'm interested in seeing evidence for this--I've never even heard of it > before, but I'm always wanting to learn more. At the moment, I think > I'm with Karen, as I can find portraits of Elizabeth with ruffs (and > partlets) both open and closed as the fashion demanded, unmarried ladies > with closed ruffs/partlets, and married ladies with open ruffs/partlets. Actually, there's only one reference to it: An Italian ambassador at Elizabeth's court mentioned it in a letter back home. The quote is somewhere in QEWU. So there's not /much/ evidence for it. It could have been a short lived trend. About portraits: we all know that they don't accuratley reflect daily reality, so they too aren't the best source either...guess there's no firm answer one way or the other. My original comment was sort of tongue in cheek, too. (Lord knows I've seen some overexposed, "mature" tracts of land that would be better off protected behind a closed partlet. ;) Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 16:01:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64K1kHP001892 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:01:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64JxsUw001832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:59:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64JxrgS015584; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:59:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h64JxogS015562 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:59:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 33202 invoked by uid 1005); 4 Jul 2003 19:59:40 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.066623 secs); 04 Jul 2003 19:59:40 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.066623 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 4 Jul 2003 19:59:40 -0000 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:59:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Book -Painting and the Market in Early Modern Antwerp In-Reply-To: <000101c341bb$6f4bbc30$6601a8c0@SG01> Message-ID: <20030704155324.T13623-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a great book! It has pictures of lowerclass women and men that I've never seen anywhere else. Plus, it has bunches of great info on how one should interpret genre paintings of the late 16th & early 17th century...what can be taken as literal, and which aspects are more symbolic. Definitely get it, if you can afford it! The other must-get book for Flemish genre art is "Joachim Beuckelaer: Het Markt-En Keukenstuk in De Nederlanden 1550-1650.", published by Stad Gent (the city of Ghent.) It's in Dutch, but is cram-packed full of tons of huge color pictures of marketwomen and the marketplace and 16th c kitchens. Drea On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > Argh! I am getting itchy fingers on this one!! Especially since the > cover painting is one I have not seen before! Thought you all might be > interested! > > > > http://www.yale.edu/yup/images/0300072392.jpg > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 16:05:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64K5RHP001899 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:05:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64K3oUw002271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:03:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64K3ngS017362; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:03:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h64K3lgS017338 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:03:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 41518 invoked by uid 1005); 4 Jul 2003 20:03:38 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.066577 secs); 04 Jul 2003 20:03:38 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.066577 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 4 Jul 2003 20:03:37 -0000 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:03:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian portraits 1550-1570 In-Reply-To: <3F04B6A9.9030206@faucet.net> Message-ID: <20030704160223.M13623-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You are evil. I like that in a person. Drea (one book richer) On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Melanie Schuessler wrote: > While I'm distracted from my work anyway, I thought I would share with > you all a book that I just got. It's an exhibition catalog from the > Kimbell Art Museum in Fort Worth, Texas, entitled "Giovanni Battista > Moroni: Renaissance Portraitist." It's only 80 pages long, but it has > over 30 different portraits (not all by him), some in color. Many of > them I've never seen before, and most of them are 1550-1570. The > majority are of men, but there are several nice ones of women and a few > children as well. > > I hunted this down because I was trying to find a better copy of the > delectable portrait of Isotta Brembati, which you can see here > http://www.skiff.tcu.edu/SkiffWeb032400/Special.html > though that pic makes her dress look black and it's actually green. > > You can get this from the Museum gift shop. Go to > http://www.kimbellart.org/index.cfm > and click on online shopping, then catalogues. > > [standard disclaimer--just a happy costumer, drooling on her new book] > > Melanie Schuessler > http://www.faucet.net/costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 16:11:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64KBdHP001924 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:11:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64K9tUw003179 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:09:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64K9qgS021221; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:09:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h64K9mgS021168 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:09:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-64-175-46-78.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (angelalazear@sbcglobal.net@64.175.46.78 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2003 20:09:47 -0000 Message-ID: <00cd01c34268$8d8288c0$4e2eaf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Angela F. Lazear" To: Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:12:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone have a quick & dirty pictoral guide on toga draping up on his or her site? I had a copy of Threads and I can't find it (if anyone remembers the issue that would be helpful). This is for the Music Man and I need to show them tomorrow (Saturday). Thanks in advance for any direction. I did several google searches and found a little, but nothing with any clarity of direction. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Do you not know I am a woman?. When I think, I must speak." As You Like It; III, ii - W. Shakespeare _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 16:11:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64KBlHP001927 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:11:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64KAAUw003233 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:10:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64KA9gS021437; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:10:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64KA6gS021404 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:10:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-027scfairp0150.dialsprint.net ([63.176.24.150] helo=faucet.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19YWsg-0001K6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 13:10:06 -0700 Message-ID: <3F05ECBC.1020602@faucet.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 16:08:12 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian portraits 1550-1570 References: <20030704160223.M13623-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drea Leed wrote: > You are evil. > > I like that in a person. > > Drea (one book richer) I'm just impressed I found this book before you did! I was joking with someone that you could charge people tons of money for a weekend with free access to your library, a scanner, and a CD burner. (sing with me) I love books, books love me, we're a happy family... Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 16:25:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64KPsHP001949 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:25:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64KOFUw004178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:24:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64KOEgS027754; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:24:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from colossus.systems.pipex.net (colossus.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64KOBgS027691 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:24:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bella (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151]) by colossus.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 964AB16000040 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:24:05 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <014e01c3426a$390c9b80$97725651@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00cd01c34268$8d8288c0$4e2eaf40@angelap3a8d978> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:24:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h64KOBgS027691 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try these two:- http://www.villaivlilla.com/toga.htm and http://home.pacific.net.au/~chrisandpeter/radical/male/male.htm Linda Walton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela F. Lazear" To: Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 9:12 PM Subject: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's > Does anyone have a quick & dirty pictoral guide on toga draping up on his or > her site? > > I had a copy of Threads and I can't find it (if anyone remembers the issue > that would be helpful). > This is for the Music Man and I need to show them tomorrow (Saturday). > > Thanks in advance for any direction. I did several google searches and found > a little, but nothing with any clarity of direction. > > angela > +++++ > Angela F. Lazear > Cabbage Rose Costumes > http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com > Theatrical Costume Design > > "Do you not know I am a woman?. When I think, I must speak." > As You Like It; III, ii - W. Shakespeare > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 16:28:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64KSIHP001953 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:28:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64KP1W0004290 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:26:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64KGYgS024292; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:16:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64KGWgS024272 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:16:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-027scfairp0150.dialsprint.net ([63.176.24.150] helo=faucet.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19YWyt-0000AV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 13:16:31 -0700 Message-ID: <3F05EE3C.803@faucet.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 16:14:36 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations References: <20030704154740.V13623-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drea Leed wrote: >>>Hm...maybe why wearing one's partlet closed was a sign of a married (i.e., >>>older and more mature) woman in the later 16th c... Then I wrote: >>I'm interested in seeing evidence for this--I've never even heard of it >>before, but I'm always wanting to learn more. At the moment, I think >>I'm with Karen, as I can find portraits of Elizabeth with ruffs (and >>partlets) both open and closed as the fashion demanded, unmarried ladies >>with closed ruffs/partlets, and married ladies with open ruffs/partlets. Then Drea wrote: > Actually, there's only one reference to it: An Italian ambassador at > Elizabeth's court mentioned it in a letter back home. The quote is > somewhere in QEWU. Thanks, I'll have to dig that up. > So there's not /much/ evidence for it. It could have been a short lived > trend. About portraits: we all know that they don't accuratley reflect > daily reality, so they too aren't the best source either...guess there's > no firm answer one way or the other. Well, ain't it always the way! Still, portraits are one of our best sources, and if used with care can be helpful. Since portraits are so emblematic, I would think that if the closed/open thing was an important social symbol for "married" or "not married" it would show up in portraiture. There are lots of portraits that commemorate betrothals and marriages, and they usually have symbolic content to hammer the point home--though perhaps that was more popular in Italy than England. I've looked at way too many portraits lately, and they're all starting to blend together in my head... > My original comment was sort of tongue in cheek, too. (Lord knows I've > seen some overexposed, "mature" tracts of land that would be better off > protected behind a closed partlet. ;) Oh yeah--I'm with you there!! (Keeping her little "girls" out of the sun!) Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 17:28:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64LSNHP002067 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:28:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64LQhUw010094 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:26:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64LQf3n028758; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:26:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law8-oe41.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64LQc3n028684 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:26:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:26:33 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by law8-oe41.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 21:26:32 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030703225853.00b566a0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Washing linen Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:27:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jul 2003 21:26:33.0071 (UTC) FILETIME=[F0D51FF0:01C34272] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Correction: Dawn dishwashing liquid is not a fabric softener. Oops. Sorry about this one :-) Got the names mixed up... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 17:51:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64LpbHP002121 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:51:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64LngUw011769 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:49:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64Lnf3n008644; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:49:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64Lnb3o008616 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:49:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64LmvAL015358 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:48:58 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:53:32 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3F059DC6.1020806@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: [h-cost] Deredere's partlet! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just got back from my trip to Drachenwald 10 year where I got to see Deredere, her dress, and that marvelous partlet (got to cheer for her Panache too! Welcome to the order!) None of her pictures do justice to the amount of work and beauty of these pieces. Vivat Deredere and say hello to Bertrik and Floris for me and say I made it back to AnTir safely. Viscountess Regina (the short lady with the silver dragon coronet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 18:05:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64M5mHP002175 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:05:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64M48Uw013163 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:04:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64M47vQ015900; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:04:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64M43vQ015830 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:04:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-207-103-100.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.103.100]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2AF72F930 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:05:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:04:03 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200307032031.h63KVAJ00636@gw.retro.com> Message-Id: <6C5CB4E0-AE6B-11D7-935C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO this is my favorite sports bra: http://www.title9sports.com/cgi-bin/title9/ Summer03___Bras_and_Bra_Tops___Bras_for_DDD_cups318901?SessionID=rfYxfSf Q&Args=&Pos=34 it has some stretch, but it's just AMAZING. Made of CoolMax, too. On Thursday, July 3, 2003, at 01:31 PM, Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > >> (now I have not sprung for the $40+ >> bras, so I don't know how they would work) > > The bras that have non-stretch cups and straps work much better than > the > usual bra, simply because they don't bounce and sag with every step. > I've > got a couple "posture bras" that are actually better than the usual > sports > bra, simply because very little of the bra is made of stretch > material. And > it has a full back, rather like a tank top which has wide criss-cross > straps > sewn down onto it. This keeps the straps from biting into your > shoulder > blades. Let me see if I can find a photo anywhere... > Here we go: > http://www.justmysize.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce/ > ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=6002&prmenbr=2701&cgrfnbr=1602958233&V=B > And a longline version: > http://www.justmysize.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce/ > ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=11453&prmenbr=2701&cgrfnbr=1602958233&V=B > > Now, if only these were made in cotton or coolmax rather than > polyester. My > bras have cotton lining, but that does just about nothing in hot > weather... > > Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 > Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris > Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. > "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 18:17:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64MH6HP002212 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:17:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64MFPUw013937 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:15:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64MFOvQ020288; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:15:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4-7.mebtel.net [64.40.67.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64MFNvQ020280 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:15:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-71.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.71]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7A5239D1F for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:15:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F06092A.20306@grics.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 18:09:30 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Snail slime, was: Fake pearls References: <20030704055702.34933.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030704055702.34933.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO hummmm... This has got my curiosity up... Would fish slime work? Garden slugs? Or i wonder if there's a suitable *thoroughly artificial* substitute. Semi-seriously (and noticing the heat again) HL Quite Contrary wrote: >>Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 13:10:12 -0700 >>From: kat@grendal.rain.com >>Subject: [h-cost] Fake pearls, was: For people who thought my >> partlet was a lot of work :-) >> >> > > > > > >>A 15th C Italian recipe for pearls (also from Lightbown) states >>that >>they use powdered crystal glass mixed with white of egg and snail >>slime as the foundation of the pearl. >> >> > > > >OK, is it just me? Or does anyone else have visions of people >squeezing snails for their slime? I mean, how in the world do you >collect snail slime?!?!?!? Blech.... :-P > >A thoroughly grossed out Mary > > >===== >"Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before." ~ Steven Wright >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 18:18:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64MIdHP002217 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:18:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64MH3Uw014021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:17:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64MH2vQ020883; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64MH1vQ020877 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-207-103-100.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.103.100]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 011D52F930 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:17:01 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <000901c34255$83082bb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-Id: <3C2AA27D-AE6D-11D7-935C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Don't worry Bjarne, practically every other word in American English is slang for "penis", it seems. .heather. On Friday, July 4, 2003, at 10:55 AM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > I totally missed that, am i stupid or something! > > Bjarne > > I give up!! > > > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heather Rose Jones" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 7:19 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt > > >> At 5:36 PM +0200 7/4/03, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >>> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Sue Clemenger" >>> To: "Historical Costume" >>> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 4:27 AM >>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt >>> >>> >>>> ROTFLMAO! >>>> --sue (who does just that, as she had a *good* set of girls) >>>> >>>> Kirrily Robert wrote: >>>>> >>>>> TOAP is "tits on a platter". >> >>> Now that makes sence. >>> Anyone wants to enlighten an ignorant male member? >>> >>> Bjarne >> >> Well, with all the talk about breasts, I suppose we can talk >> about "male members" too! (English slang note to Bjarne: "male >> member" is sometimes used in trashy romance novels as a euphemism for >> penis.) >> >> Heather >> -- >> ***** >> Heather Rose Jones >> hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu >> ***** >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 19:02:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64N24HP002347 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:02:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64N0FUw016352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:00:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64N0Dx4006044; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:00:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.186]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h64N0Ax4006020 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:00:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ppp-209-77-10-147.dialup.sndg02.pacbell.net (HELO sbcglobal.net) (lady?m?de?j%sbcglobal.net@209.77.10.147 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2003 23:00:10 -0000 Message-ID: <3F0606FB.70009@sbcglobal.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 16:00:11 -0700 From: Maura Folsom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-CA; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-ca, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@net.indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Help! Need digests 368 - 372 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm resending (with a different subject) since this seems to have been eaten by the listbot. HELP! After two days of pure computer hell, once I was able to get my mail again, Netscape ate these digests. I got the subject but no message. Since I have been following with interest some of the discussions, would someone be so kind as to forward them to me? Thank you! Maura Folsom _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 19:22:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64NMEHP002376 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:22:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64NKXUw018117 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:20:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64NKWx4015571; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:20:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64NKTx4015502 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:20:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4917A1B2578 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:20:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01b301c34282$d7d79f40$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030704160223.M13623-100000@shell.siscom.net> <3F05ECBC.1020602@faucet.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian portraits 1550-1570 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:20:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > (sing with me) I love books, books love me, we're a happy family... > > Melanie Schuessler Ack! That's my favorite version of a Christmas Carol, and I can't find it on video, and now it's stuck in my head AGAIN! Nice lyrics, though...I can relate.. OB costume content--I started an Italian gown today (from the Period Patterns) in some lovely light weight green silk, lined with a heavier fabric to make it drape better. I had just gotten bodice and sleeves cut out when my inlaws showed up unexpectedly to celebrate my son's birthday. (Yes, he is my little Yankee Doodle Dandy, born on the 4th of July..) Well, since they had driven 600 miles, I figured I should be nice and socialize. And my son *was* thrilled! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 19:55:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64NtAHP002440 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:55:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64NrSUw021171 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:53:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64NrQx4029569; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:53:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64NrNx4029509 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:53:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a235.in-tch.com [66.62.107.35]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h64NYIT27031 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:34:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F0613DA.5D2ECD9F@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 17:55:06 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt References: <000b01c34241$fac29730$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <000901c34255$83082bb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Absolutely not! You're just not a native English speaker familiar with all of the weird slang terms Americans use. Heck, I don't think I know a single word of Danish! --sue Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > I totally missed that, am i stupid or something! > > Bjarne > > I give up!! > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heather Rose Jones" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 7:19 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt > > > At 5:36 PM +0200 7/4/03, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Sue Clemenger" > > >To: "Historical Costume" > > >Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 4:27 AM > > >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt > > > > > > > > >> ROTFLMAO! > > >> --sue (who does just that, as she had a *good* set of girls) > > >> > > >> Kirrily Robert wrote: > > >> > > > > > > TOAP is "tits on a platter". > > > > >Now that makes sence. > > >Anyone wants to enlighten an ignorant male member? > > > > > >Bjarne > > > > Well, with all the talk about breasts, I suppose we can talk > > about "male members" too! (English slang note to Bjarne: "male > > member" is sometimes used in trashy romance novels as a euphemism for > > penis.) > > > > Heather > > -- > > ***** > > Heather Rose Jones > > hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu > > ***** > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 19:56:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64NuuHP002447 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:56:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64NtKUw021413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:55:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64NtKDo000644; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:55:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h64NtHDo000604 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:55:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a235.in-tch.com [66.62.107.35]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h64NaCT27554 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:36:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F06144D.1C95B306@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 17:57:01 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt References: <3F04E5F4.C07D02DF@in-tch.com> <000b01c34241$fac29730$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, Carol! What I meant, in my post, was that I am well endowed enough, that I kinda do a TOAP presentation in garb, whether I want to or not. Sorry I confused you, Bjarne! --sue Carol Kocian wrote: > > Ok, I'll give it a try! We speak in euphamisms or use > abbreviations for some things, but please be aware that we are many > languages and cultures. While it's funny to those who understand it, > if we really want to share information we have to be more clear! :-) > > Some women wear corsets or stays that lift their breasts very > high and they look like they're being presented on a platter. Tits > on a platter, or TOAP. > > Other discussion went on at the same time regarding the best way > to position oneself to look the same as the portraits of the period. > > When you wrote "male member", we just kept on giggling. > > -Carol > > >Ok, sorry, welll i am really slow today, just got home from work, long hours > >and did not get my brains with me. > >Ok, well that is interresting, never heard that before. > >This is the same as: Bjarne is the same as Dick and Cock Robin Willie and so > >further, comeon ladies, you know what i meen, well, no > >further................... > >But what has that to do with corsets and tits on a platter? > > > >:-) :-) > >All smiles here > >Sorry ladies > > > >Does size really matter? > >I say yes!!!! > > > > > >Bjarne > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews > >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 20:02:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6502AHP002470 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:02:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6500TUw021738 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:00:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6500SDo002300; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:00:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6500QDo002271 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:00:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.146.14ca5528 (3940) for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:00:15 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <146.14ca5528.2c376f0e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:00:14 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] epiphany X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I hate making ruffs. I love how they look, I like wearin' 'em. hate making them. Hate. Hate. Hate. Thank you. That is all. -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 21:54:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h651sLHP002758 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:54:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h651pCUw028378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:51:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h651pAln011017; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:51:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h651p8ln011008 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:51:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h651pMA08006 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:51:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:51:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200307050151.h651pMA08006@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Summer03___Bras_and_Bra_Tops___Bras_for_DDD_cups318901?SessionID=rfYxfSf > Q&Args=&Pos=34 > > it has some stretch, but it's just AMAZING. > Made of CoolMax, too. But it's back to the skimpy little straps in the back, which is why I'm wearing posture bras right now. A thin little strap that runs across the shoulder blade is painful for many women. If the "Last Resort" bra they sell were coolmax instead of nylon/spandex, I'd have the perfect bra. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 22:02:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6522DHP002786 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 22:02:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6520VUw028862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:00:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6520TCe013655; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:00:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6520SCe013636 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:00:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-207-103-100.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.103.100]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3EC02F957 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:00:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200307050151.h651pMA08006@gw.retro.com> Message-Id: <725524E2-AE8C-11D7-935C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's listed as a Wicking bra, though Lee. Coolmax isn't the only option for comfort. You might want to try the store in Berkeley to see it in person. http://www.title9sports.com/cgi-bin/title9/ Summer03___Bras_and_Bra_Tops___Wicking_Bras > > But it's back to the skimpy little straps in the back, which is why > I'm wearing posture bras right now. A thin little strap that runs > across the shoulder blade is painful for many women. If the "Last > Resort" > bra they sell were coolmax instead of nylon/spandex, I'd have the > perfect > bra. > > Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 > Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris > Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. > "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 22:24:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h652OZHP002924 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 22:24:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h652MLUw000135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:22:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h652MKCe020763; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:22:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h652MHCe020739 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:22:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip121.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.121]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A6796AA76 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:22:14 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 19:20:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fake pearls Message-ID: <3F05D36E.9564.3EB0C4DD@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3F05CD91.2000402@rcn.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I thought isenglass was another name for mica? I don't know if the name is similar but spelled differently or if the spelling is the same. However, this one is fish related. You can actually buy it to use in brewing. (It helps to get the sediment out.) I've used it mostly for doing period fish glues. (Ick.) > It's the commonly found sparkly mineral in an awful lot of rocks, and > can sometimes be found in large slabs on its own. > > Somewhat transparent on its own & refractory; it's been used in stoves > and fireplaces for wiindows. Believe me, this one is definitely fish, not mineral. (Although you'd think you could also use mica for the pearls as well.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 23:09:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65394HP003047 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:09:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6537HUw002750 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:07:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6537Gwp005835; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:07:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6537Cwp005800 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:07:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.33.3b147a94 (4592) for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:06:59 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <33.3b147a94.2c379ad3@aol.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:06:59 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/4/2003 4:10:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, angelalazear@sbcglobal.net writes: > Does anyone have a quick &dirty pictoral guide on toga draping up on his or > her site? > But aren't the people in "Music Man" supposed to be Greek? Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 23:10:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653AGHP003051 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:10:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6538WUw002798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:08:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6538Wwp006187; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:08:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6538Twp006128 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:08:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.2d.310b80d9 (4592) for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:08:17 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <2d.310b80d9.2c379b21@aol.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:08:17 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] epiphany To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Glad to be of service as a place for you to vent that! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 23:30:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653U5HP003092 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:30:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653SMUw004017 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:28:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653SLwp013890; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:28:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653SHwp013843 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:28:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p46-max8.akl.ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz) [203.173.204.110] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19Ydig-0001Xj-00; Sat, 05 Jul 2003 15:28:15 +1200 Message-ID: <3F0645BE.6040906@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 15:27:58 +1200 From: michaela User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: back to pre 1600 figures was mostly about bras now Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset References: <703A69A4-ADC9-11D7-B749-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> In-Reply-To: <703A69A4-ADC9-11D7-B749-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Michaela, I was one of the ones you responded to and that's exactly > what I meant. I know I didn't exactly describe the "push in" rather > than "up", but that's what I was getting at. It's a different method > than what I'm used to, having been reared in the ways of "grab and > hoist" maneuvers from my days in Ren Faire, but I think it's the more > accurate one for all of the reasons discussed before. *phew* glad I added that comment;) I read it as being a monoevre *opposite* to hoist you see;) Then the light went on, *bing*! I could probably get away with the hoist, just to get what is closer to a mean size or even the very girlish look of late 15thC. I can't even wear a bathing suit or a moderately fitting top without looking like some huge pre-teen;) I don't know about Robin's method for me.. I think I'd need to lean forward, and hang upside down as much as possible. Lying down sends things heading too far out the side;) And I could also go gainst what painting show of lacing starting at the top and being undone at the bottom... My kirtle is dry now I can experiment with this. Also making it slightly smaller at the top. The amount of stretch in linen is quite surprising for someone who hasn't worked with it too often;) Can we say new favourite fibre;) Well besides wool that is;) Heck, I may complain about being small, but I can of course always pad up for designs that require a more ample bosom;) And as a public apology to Kat, I misread her too, discussed it privately but I thought I'd better also mention it publicly. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com (got new plans for garb:) ) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 23:37:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653bFHP003100 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:37:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653ZQUw004405 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:35:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653ZNwp015987; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:35:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653ZJwp015961 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:35:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p46-max8.akl.ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz) [203.173.204.110] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19YdpV-0007Dh-00; Sat, 05 Jul 2003 15:35:17 +1200 Message-ID: <3F064772.2080000@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 15:35:14 +1200 From: michaela User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fake pearls References: <3F05D36E.9564.3EB0C4DD@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3F05D36E.9564.3EB0C4DD@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just as a side note, I have People and pearls and it does mention practically all the methods of faking pearls so far submitted. But I also have to say I would suspect Catherine di Medici would most probably have had real pearls. And from looking at extant items with pearls on them... I'd say either the artist was painting fake pearls or useda lot of artistic licence to make them completely regular. Probably to look better, but I'm sure it was also easier to paint regular circles rather than try and make each pearl individual;) Lovely photo of a coronet/crown in Burgundian Netherlands from Margaret of York's marriage. If they use pearls that are far from regular for an item of that import, I'd say it's a safe bet that pearls on garments were equally irregular. In fact it's promted me to go buy real pearls as opposed avoiding pearls altogether rather than use fake ones. We are not talking rice crispie type pearls, but simply small irregular pearls:) michaela http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 23:38:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653cgHP003107 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:38:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653atUw004500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:36:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653atwp016503; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:36:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653aqwq016475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:36:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h653ausp003137 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:36:56 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h653auaj003135 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:36:56 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Washing linen Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:36:55 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307042336.55717.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 03 July 2003 05:45 pm, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > Was wondering if anyone else had heard of this method for softening > > linen: wash it in Dawn. I have a bunch of linen to prewash and this was > > recommended to me. Anyone else try it? > > Dawn being a fabric softener, I'd think it would soften any fabric. In my > experience, linen will soften as you wash it, no matter what you use. ? I thought Dawn was a dishwashing detergent. -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 23:40:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653eKHP003111 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:40:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653cbUw004588 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:38:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653cbwp016999; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:38:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653cWwq016981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:38:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h653casp003157 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:38:36 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h653cZJJ003155 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:38:35 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Washing linen Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:38:35 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307042338.35672.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 03 July 2003 07:23 pm, Chris Laning wrote: > At 5:45 PM -0400 7/3/03, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > > Was wondering if anyone else had heard of this method for softening > >> > >> linen: wash it in Dawn. I have a bunch of linen to prewash and this > >> was recommended to me. Anyone else try it? > > > >Dawn being a fabric softener, I'd think it would soften any fabric. In my > >experience, linen will soften as you wash it, no matter what you use. > > Time to repeat this tip: I haven't had a chance to try this, but a > friend's mom says that the quickest way to soften scratchy cotton or > linen is to wet it thoroughly, then freeze it. Then take it out, and > work the fabric while it's still partly frozen: roll, twist, rub, > thump, et cetera. Wash and dry it again and it should come out quite > a bit softer. Sounds interesting. Has anybody on the list ever tried this? I'd be concerned that it would be easier to break/damage the fibers.... -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 23:43:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653h5HP003121 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:43:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653fIUw004707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:41:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653fHwp017789; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:41:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653fEwp017765 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:41:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-6-059.dav.jps.net ([216.119.6.59] helo=w7m1l6) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19YdvF-0004tu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 20:41:13 -0700 Message-ID: <023201c342a7$349ecd60$3b0677d8@w7m1l6> From: "Stephen Bergdahl" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F044B65.7030103@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from vakation Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:51:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-ELNK-Trace: 08dba192340bde6e1a6ab3b9b70940f894f5150ab1c16ac027907a4ca0ac1adf672d250a1cb5901443c015732125e85f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-DCC-MessageCare-Metrics: net.indra.com 1108; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Congratulations Deredere And welcome to the club. I'd forgotten that I have a Panache too. Gotten more years ago than I care to remember. Anyway it is a great honor. Stephen - Lord Porfirevich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "H-Costume" Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 8:27 AM Subject: [h-cost] Back from vakation > Hi, > > STill tired and feel like my brains are fried but happy. > The SCA event we went to was great! > Here are some pictures > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/DTYC/DTYC.html > I still don't have nice pictures of me wearing te partlet :-[ > And the picture of my dress isn't very flattering. > I was tired and it was so hot that I decided not to wear my corset. > > Her are some pictures of my back > http://www.skauma.org/bildarkiv/dynpage.cgi?last=1057166908&dir=/2003/dw10yc /frid-evn/P6204316.jpg > http://www.skauma.org/bildarkiv/dynpage.cgi?last=1057166908&dir=/2003/dw10yc /frid-evn/P6204318.jpg > > There was no Arts and science contest but a display where I talked with > some people over my dress. > But too my supprise I've got an aword for all the work I put in making > costumes. > They made me a member of the Order of the Panache. :-) :-) :-) > > Order of the Panache > The Panache is the awarded to those who have distinguished themselves by > long and consistent excellence in the Arts (and Sciences) and who have > also constantly made their expertise available to the various members of > the Kingdom. The symbol of the Order is (Fieldless) issuant to chief > from a torteau charged with a bezant pierced sable three feathers gules, > Or and Sable. > > Unfortionally I had an exident with my dress. Someone had a pack of > blackberry juse standing on the ground an kicked it over. So there were > some purple stains on my dress :-( :-( . We tried to take it out by > putting salt on the stains. The stains are almost gone. But making white > silk satin wet with water already distrois the fabrick. Grrrr.... > > I now have so many ideas of what I want to make.... > A hat where I can sow the Panache token on, New corset, Two different > 16th century dresses, A Robe a la Francaise(bought Kyoto book)..... > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 23:46:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653k0HP003127 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:46:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653i1Uw004892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653i1wp018646; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h653hxwp018633 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:43:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-64-175-46-78.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@64.175.46.78 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2003 03:43:58 -0000 Message-ID: <009001c342a8$00b05180$4e2eaf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: "Historical Costume" References: <33.3b147a94.2c379ad3@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:46:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > But aren't the people in "Music Man" supposed to be Greek? > Ann Wass Actually, they are supposed to be Iowan. ;) Seriously, they aren't supposed to know what they're doing, that's sort of the point of the bit. Also, the costumes are rentals and were predesigned. For the "Grecian Urn" Rivers of Spring scene, I have these precut ovals that are large, much like men's Roman togas. In order to use them, they need to be draped on these women in any fashion that won't look completely sloppy and which will be somewhat secure. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "O, what a world of vile ill-favored faults looks handsome in three hundred pounds a year!..." The Merry Wives of Windsor, III, iv - W. Shakespeare _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 23:47:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653l7HP003131 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:47:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653jVUw004942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:45:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653jUwp019008; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:45:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653jSwp018993 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:45:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19YdzL-0003ZV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 20:45:27 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:45:26 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c342a7$e5000020$6601a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <725524E2-AE8C-11D7-935C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Bra site; Was: Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow! Thanks for this site...you know I just realized I haven't been shopping for clothes in over two years. I was not aware of the new stuff out there. I am definitely hunting down a few of these babies for MY babies.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 4 23:49:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653nvHP003135 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:49:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653mCUw005059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:48:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653mBwp019762; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:48:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h653m9wp019747 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:48:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13172 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:12:26 -0500 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:12:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: back to pre 1600 figures was mostly about bras now Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset In-Reply-To: <3F0645BE.6040906@ihug.co.nz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 5 Jul 2003, michaela wrote: > I don't know about Robin's method for me.. I think I'd need to lean > forward, and hang upside down as much as possible. Lying down sends > things heading too far out the side;) Don't worry, you catch that back up as you fit. The idea is that you're not fighting downwards gravity as you work; the mass is mostly drawn in against your ribcage, not hanging, and you can pretty much maneuver it where you want. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 5 00:27:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h654RpHP003183 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 00:27:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h654Q0Uw007155 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 22:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h654PxkN001330; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 22:25:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net (turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.126]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h654PukN001312 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 22:25:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19YecW-0005Lq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 21:25:56 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: back to pre 1600 figures was mostly about bras now Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:25:59 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c342ad$8c6328b0$6601a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You've got to try it to believe it....it really works even on VERY large busted gals!!! I can see it coming Robin, you might as well post your directions again!! :) On Sat, 5 Jul 2003, michaela wrote: > I don't know about Robin's method for me.. I think I'd need to lean > forward, and hang upside down as much as possible. Lying down sends > things heading too far out the side;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 5 00:34:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h654YaHP003189 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 00:34:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h654WvUw007431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 22:32:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h654WukN003049; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 22:32:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h654WskN003042 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 22:32:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13409 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:57:12 -0500 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:57:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: back to pre 1600 figures was mostly about bras now Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset In-Reply-To: <000001c342ad$8c6328b0$6601a8c0@SG01> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 4 Jul 2003, Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > You've got to try it to believe it....it really works even on VERY > large busted gals!!! I can see it coming Robin, you might as well > post your directions again!! :) Collected posts on 14th/15th c. fitted dress at http://www.netherton.net/robin . You'll also find a handout about the fitted dress there. No how-to instructions, but enough to give the experienced dressmaker a head start. (I hope to update this page with more summaries on more topics, but my first priority this summer is to shop for, buy, and become familiar with a new computer...) Caveat: I have never tried the lying-down method for anything later than 1450, but it makes bust manipulation so much easier I'd suggest at least giving it a shot, for any period in which you're trying to rearrange the bosom. It's helped me both to make large busts manageable and to make small busts more shapely. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 5 00:56:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h654uGHP003207 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 00:56:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h654sZUw008344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 22:54:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h654sZkN009173; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 22:54:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h654sXkN009165 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 22:54:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Yf4C-00062m-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 21:54:32 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Snail slime, was: Fake pearls Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:54:40 -0700 Message-ID: <000701c342b1$8b8045f0$6601a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20030704055702.34933.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK, is it just me? Or does anyone else have visions of people squeezing snails for their slime? I mean, how in the world do you collect snail slime?!?!?!? Blech.... :-P A thoroughly grossed out Mary ===== This ought to really push you over the edge: In another life while researching the effects of Poly Chlorinated Bi-Phenyls (aka as PCBs) We used to collect snails, expose them to the PCBs, cook 'em and grind 'em up in a blender, then extract their 'juice' to run gas spectrometry on them. They sure smelled good cookin' in the lab.... I had to keep reminding myself that we were using radio-isotopic tracers in them to prevent me from dipping! I never paid much attention to it, but I betcha there was plenty of slime in there! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 5 01:18:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h655IbHP003254 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 01:18:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h655GqUw010060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:16:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h655GoPx017255; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:16:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h655GlPx017245 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:16:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.249.181.11] (pool181-22.patriot.net [209.249.181.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h655GjUa008225 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 01:16:46 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <005401c3425e$f4d1e020$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <001001c3425d$0f2c5060$6601a8c0@SG01> <005401c3425e$f4d1e020$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 01:16:43 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne wrote, >May i take up another poll? >In the sum,mertime? > >Do you prefer cut or uncut? This being a costume list, I assume Bjarne must be asking about clothing cut & sewn to fit, versus uncut fabric that's draped about the body. Like a quick and dirty toga, sari, kilt, etc. Right? For summer, yes, a draped, nonrestricting garment can be more comfortable. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 5 01:52:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h655qIHP003299 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 01:52:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h655oeUw012126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:50:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h655ocPx000188; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:50:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.186]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h655oaPx000175 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:50:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ppp-66-126-74-232.dialup.sndg02.pacbell.net (HELO sbcglobal.net) (lady?m?de?j%sbcglobal.net@66.126.74.232 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2003 05:50:36 -0000 Message-ID: <3F06672C.6090107@sbcglobal.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 22:50:36 -0700 From: Maura Folsom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-CA; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-ca, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@net.indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Cote step-by-step X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin, I was especially thinking of you when I decided to post this. :) http://www.cottesimple.com/ She just put it up and it is admittedly a bit rough, but so far ti looks great, IMO. Maura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 5 05:33:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h659XmHP006723 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 05:33:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h659W6Uw022202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Jul 2003 03:32:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h659W4VL002485; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 03:32:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41511.mail.yahoo.com (web41511.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h659W2VL002465 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 03:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030705093157.63319.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41511.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 05 Jul 2003 10:31:57 BST Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 10:31:57 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Washing linen To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200307042338.35672.cathy@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Sounds interesting. Has anybody on the list ever tried this? I'd be > concerned that it would be easier to break/damage the fibers.... > The whole idea IS to break the fibres in the linen. It apparently works, and has the same effect as aging linen has: the older a linen garment the more often washed it is, and the softer and fluffier it gets. Linen is very sturdy indeed, breaking the fibres won't kill it, just push forward the aging process. Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 5 09:02:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65D2oHP007107 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 09:02:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65D0eUw007443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Jul 2003 07:00:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65D0Vv3010415; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 07:00:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65D0Tv3010400 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 07:00:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15289 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 08:24:48 -0500 Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 08:24:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cote step-by-step In-Reply-To: <3F06672C.6090107@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 4 Jul 2003, Maura Folsom wrote: > Robin, I was especially thinking of you when I decided to post this. > :) > > http://www.cottesimple.com/ > > She just put it up and it is admittedly a bit rough, but so far ti > looks great, IMO. Wow, what a great job! Tasha and I talk a fair amount, and have talked recently, and she hasn't mentioned working on this, so I hope you haven't spoiled a surprise; is it public yet, or is she beta-testing? (This happened to another friend of mine lately -- she let a few friends know about a site-in-progress before she was done, and next thing she knew it was all over the net, and she was scrambling to fill in blanks.) It took me a while to read through, and I'll probably have to go back and read it closer. It's very impressive. We've talked quite a bit over the last couple of years, and I know she's refined her own method based on my tips, which she indicates in her writeup. There are some things I know she got from me (e.g. fitting lying down, and fitting the lining first to use as a guide for the outer fabric), and there were other things she might have picked up from my handouts, but probably quite bit more she came up with independently, and I was tickled to see how much we think alike. I laughed when I read her bit about labeling the pieces while they're on the person -- I'm pretty sure I haven't written that down anywhere, so it's nice to see I'm not the only one. (Of course, Tasha says to "label unobtrusively," but I usually scrawl LF and RF and LB and RB all over the lining body in chalk.) We also find the shoulder line in the same way, by feeling for the muscle. And so on. There are some things we do very differently. I always do fittings over a chemise, for instance, since that's how the dress will be worn, and it does change the movement of the fabric as well as make a slight size difference. And I don't often baste on the body -- partly because I tend to catch the chemise ;-) but also because I do a lot of on-and-off. That allows me to even out left-to-right pattern pieces at several points throughout the process instead of trying to play catch-up at the end. I do two to four incremental fittings, changing the body (and warping the fabric) a little more with each one; it takes longer but it also creates (for me) a truer shape. I'm really impressed that Tasha can do so much by basting-on-the-body; maybe my fingers aren't strong enough, or maybe I'm just too anal about trying to keep things symmetrical for as long as possible in the process. (I have the nagging feeling that medieval seamstresses were a bit more relaxed about some things that I tend to check obsessively.) What does concern me is that some people may look at this and see it as a sort of a competition between "Robin's way" and "Tasha's way." That would be, I think, an oversimplification, and I don't think it's what Tasha would intend. Our methods are essentially the same, in that they're both a four-panel gown fitted on the body to create a shape that echoes period artwork. Most of the "alternatives" people discuss are vastly different in overall principle: princess cuts, Herjolfsnes-based cuts, cuts with waist seams, pattern-drafted methods, methods based on measurements, dresses fit over bras, etc. Tasha's experiment here was, by comparison, a minor tweak, to see how her method came out if she didn't curve the front, because she knows I advocate a straight front. But we're really far more alike than different. One of the things I try to stress in my lectures/workshops is that there were no doubt a lot of individual variations in approach from one place/year/dressmaker to another, and that I teach the version that has worked best for me. I also identify a few of the common silhouette variations in my slide lecture -- obviously they'd all require slight changes in approach. So a curved front seam is a viable variation, depending on what you're aiming for. It's not the one I prefer, but I do what I'm most comfortable with, and I encourage others to make intelligent choices based on what's known and what's logical. Tasha's curved-front approach looks to me like a logical variant, for certain looks/cases/preferences, and that's what *she's* comfortable with. Overall, though, it's still the same technique, and we're coming from the same side of the discussion. I do worry, though, that some people will look over Tasha's list of pros and cons of her two dresses and figure they've got a head-to-head comparison of the two front-seam approaches. I think it's important to that the comparison isn't really curved-seam vs. front-seam, but rather Tasha's usual well-refined approach vs. her first attempt to change one element of it based on a description of another approach. Anyone's first try at something is going to be less successful than the nth try. For the record, most of the things Tasha lists as "cons" on her straight-front attempt are problems I experienced and learned to work around over the years. I'd hate to see someone judge the entire method based on Tasha's first try -- or my first try, for that matter! Tasha also lists the things she'd do differently, and she's exactly on the mark with most of that: for instance, if she'd cut the armhole higher at the bottom, her model would have had much more freedom of movement, and a higher back would have spread the pressure more evenly. There are other things I do differently, from experience, that Tasha hasn't had a chance to discover yet -- for instance, I ran into her "quadriboob" problem (what a great description!) periodically till I learned to do a bit of a tweak on the front upper part of the side seam that pulled a certain part off-grain and eliminated the tension along a horizontal grainline. I also do much more with stretching and molding the shoulder area; Tasha speculates about that, but didn't try it, and as a result her model says the straight-front dress feels like a corset because all the support is coming from below and none from the shoulder. That's way different from my technique, and probably way different from what Tasha would do on a second, third, or fourth try. But I bet I'm going to hear people saying "Oh, Tasha showed that Robin's method isn't as comfortable." That's not what Tasha's saying, of course -- she's very clear that this was a first try, based on description alone. I think it's impressive that she had as successful a result as she did; she's certainly got a good-looking and workable dress, even though it's not as flexible and comfortable as it could have been (and do doubt would be with practice). And her bottom line on the resulting silhouette shape captures the essence of the difference. One thing I think Tasha didn't guess right on is that she speculates that the straight front seam is probably better only for small-busted women. In my own experience, I think a curved front -- though easier to fit -- exaggerates the front projection for a larger-busted woman. A straight front adds more support down the middle (same principle as the busk, but more flexible) and lets you shape the bust to go wider, rather than forward, which I think is more typical of period aesthetic. But there were certainly some variations in period, and a lot of it comes down to personal preference. In my case, I've learned from practice to work around the initial difficulties of a straight front seam more satisfactorily than a curved front. (I absolutely can't stand dealing with the problems of the lacing bunching or skewing at the point where you go off-grain in a curved front!) All in all, a good and comprehensive job, and one I'll probably refer people to if they want to see visuals. Though I have a feeling I'm going to have to start dealing with a lot of people who don't read carefully and base their opinions of *my* work on Tasha's experiment ... I haven't read Tasha's paper yet, though -- my limp little computer can't handle the download. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 5 11:20:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65FKlHP007385 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 11:20:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65FIoUw022394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Jul 2003 09:18:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65FIm7M025646; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 09:18:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65FIl7M025632 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 09:18:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (adsl-67-124-118-61.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [67.124.118.61])h65FIiwK018071 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 10:18:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030705081247.00b2be20@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 08:16:24 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Book -Painting and the Market in Early Modern Antwerp In-Reply-To: <3F05D0CC.6050908@grics.net> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030703230857.00b45e00@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030703230857.00b45e00@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:09 PM 7/4/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Could start here - if they're out of it, you could use the data for a ABE >search... > >http://www.yale.edu/yup/books/072392.htm > >Edwinna >Information Junkie Edwinna-- I ran an ABE search about 3 weeks ago; that was where I originally thought I had found it. There are several copies available in the UK, all for much higher prices than from Barnes & Noble here in the US. It's currently selling for $45 before any discounts. B&N was kind enough to send me a 15% off coupon this week, so I'll probably run over to the store and order it today (the coupon is good for only the stores, or I'd order it online). Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 5 12:57:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65GvBHP007583 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:57:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65GtKUw020403 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Jul 2003 10:55:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65GtI2T008299; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 10:55:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65GtE2U008281 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 10:55:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h65Gt6sp004445 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:55:10 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h65Gt5q3004443 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:55:05 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Washing linen Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:55:05 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20030705093157.63319.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030705093157.63319.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307051255.05248.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 05 July 2003 05:31 am, N Kipar wrote: > > Sounds interesting. Has anybody on the list ever tried this? I'd be > > concerned that it would be easier to break/damage the fibers.... > > The whole idea IS to break the fibres in the linen. It apparently works, > and has the same effect as aging linen has: the older a linen garment the > more often washed it is, and the softer and fluffier it gets. Linen is very > sturdy indeed, breaking the fibres won't kill it, just push forward the > aging process. Hmmm. I have a piece I probably should try this on. Thanks. -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 5 13:35:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65HZhHP007662 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 13:35:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65HXtUw022666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Jul 2003 11:33:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65HXr2T022041; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 11:33:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h65HXo2T021994 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 11:33:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OnXeIAiuf6uIyDYs7pj9OV8=">; Sat, 05 Jul 2003 10:33:18 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H4CFF4G6; Sat, 05 Jul 2003 10:33:18 PDT To: bayruh@comcast.net Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 09:02:56 -0700 Message-ID: <20030705.103251.1644.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-65 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] KWCS / KWAR Announcement X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all. Thought this SCA event might be of interest--the Known World Costuming Symposium. Arlys On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 03:34:27 +0000 bayruh@comcast.net writes: > > Note: You have less than 30 days left to get 20% off your event > fees! > Please feel free to crosspost this to appropriate lists. > > Known World Costuming Symposium Known World Academy of the Rapier > October 17-19, 2003 > Barony of Caerthe, Kingdom of the Outlands (Denver, Colorado) > Denver Renaissance Hotel > www.caerthe.org/knownworld > > The Barony of Caerthe is hosting THE Known World event that you > wont want to > miss. There will be classes for everyone no matter your skill level. > Teachers > from all over the Known World are coming together to teach the > broadest course > of classes in their fields ever assembled. > > This double event features: > 200+ hours of classes on costuming, fencing, dance, and joint > interest classes. > A 5000+ sq ft merchant room. > Featured speakers Robin Netherton and Tawny Sherrill. > A unique opportunity to learn from teachers from all over the Known > World, all > in one place, all in one weekend. > The Come-As-You-Arent masked ball with live music and > entertainment. > A Friday night warm-up social. > Raffles all weekend long including a one-of-a-kind sword. > Three meals (including the Saturday feast) included with your $40 > fee ($50 > after 7/31) > Reserved hotel rooms at $59 a night featuring all the amenities in a > Class A > hotel. > Hotel shuttles from Denver International Airport. > > Expected merchants at KWCS/KWAR. Please check the web site for the > latest > confirmed merchants. > Chivalry Bookshelf > T.L. Barnes Enterprises > Poison Pen Press > Calontir Trim > Canyon Keep Enterprises > Realm of Regalia > Merlions Tail / Sewing Central > The Silk Robe > Ursulas Alcove > > Full event details are available on the event web site: > www.caerthe.org/knownworld > > KWCS Autocrat: Desptissa Eirene Tzimiskina Kontostephanina > eirenetz@comcast.net > > KWAR Autocrat: The Honorable Lady Rivka Vladimirovna Rivkina > rivka@caerthe.org ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 5 13:35:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65HZnHP007665 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 13:35:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65HY7Uw022684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Jul 2003 11:34:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65HY72T022111; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 11:34:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h65HXo2T021993 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 11:33:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OnXeIAiuf6uIomJ1q2EsP4k=">; Sat, 05 Jul 2003 10:33:18 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H4CFF4G4; Sat, 05 Jul 2003 10:33:18 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 09:00:11 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt Message-ID: <20030705.103251.1644.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-5,7-10,13-17 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:29:20 -0700 Heather Rose Jones writes: > >I totally missed that, am i stupid or something! > > > >Bjarne Absolutely not! If anything, I would say our perceptions are dictated by our language. > >I give up!! Bjarne, I've tutored adult non-native English speakers in this ridiculous, mutates-every-10-seconds language of ours for nearly 15 years. You do great! And you gave we ladies a giggle! :D best always, Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 5 13:36:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65HaHHP007669 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 13:36:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65HYEUw022710 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Jul 2003 11:34:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65HYE2T022154; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 11:34:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h65HXp2T021996 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 11:33:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OnXeIAiuf6uI9ulpBK/sajY=">; Sat, 05 Jul 2003 10:33:18 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H4CFF4G8; Sat, 05 Jul 2003 10:33:18 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 09:09:53 -0700 Message-ID: <20030705.103251.1644.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-6,8-13,15-20 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Subject: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Totally modern question, but while we're on the subject-- Do you have any suggestions as to where a gal of somewhat irregular size can find a comfortable bra? I'm a 36C, which isn't hard, but owing to a lifetime of singing have an torso that belongs on an American football player and I can never find bras that fit right. I am looking at getting fitted, just wondering if anyone knew of any commercial outlets or websites. Thanks, Arlys in Portland, Oregon On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:00:26 -0700 Heather Meadows writes: > > That's listed as a Wicking bra, though Lee. Coolmax > isn't the only option for comfort. You might want to > try the store in Berkeley to see it in person. > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 5 14:18:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65II2HP007783 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 14:18:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65IGFUw024886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:16:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65IGDMK005783; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:16:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65IGBMK005769 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:16:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16372 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 13:40:31 -0500 Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 13:40:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS / KWAR Announcement In-Reply-To: <20030705.103251.1644.1.Cley@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 5 Jul 2003, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > Greetings all. Thought this SCA event might be of interest--the Known > World Costuming Symposium. I'll be there (obviously!). Anyone else? I'd love to meet some people from the list... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 5 14:37:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65IblHP007809 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 14:37:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65IaBUw026234 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:36:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65IaAMK012340; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:36:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f27.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65IZ6MK012025 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:35:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 11:35:01 -0700 Received: from 129.244.23.156 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 05 Jul 2003 18:35:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.23.156] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS / KWAR Announcement Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 13:35:00 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jul 2003 18:35:01.0159 (UTC) FILETIME=[24C9BB70:01C34324] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Robin Netherton >I'll be there (obviously!). Anyone else? I'd love to meet some people from >the list... Rumor has it I'm supposed to attend. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 5 14:38:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65IcPHP007812 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 14:38:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65IaPUw026276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:36:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65IaOMK012439; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:36:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65IaMMK012397 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:36:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m55.in-tch.com [216.166.191.55]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h65IFgT27561 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:15:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F071AAC.8B4CCF23@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 12:36:28 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS / KWAR Announcement References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Me. Although you've already met me. I hope to have a GFD dress done by then.... I'm actually skipping a local SCA event to go . --sue Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Sat, 5 Jul 2003, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > > > Greetings all. Thought this SCA event might be of interest--the Known > > World Costuming Symposium. > > I'll be there (obviously!). Anyone else? I'd love to meet some people from > the list... > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 5 15:28:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65JSiHP008048 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:28:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65JR0Uw029515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Jul 2003 13:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65JQxe9003030; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 13:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h65JQse9003000 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 13:26:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-207-103-106.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.103.106]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9EC12F986 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:27:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:26:52 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030705.103251.1644.2.Cley@juno.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you are complaining about your torso (and by that I assume you mean ribcage? unless you're looking for longline bras) then you may be wearing a band that is simply too small. I'd start with a professional fitting at Nordstroms or something to determine your size. On Saturday, July 5, 2003, at 09:09 AM, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > Totally modern question, but while we're on the subject-- > > Do you have any suggestions as to where a gal of somewhat irregular > size > can find a comfortable bra? I'm a 36C, which isn't hard, but owing to a > lifetime of singing have an torso that belongs on an American football > player and I can never find bras that fit right. > > I am looking at getting fitted, just wondering if anyone knew of any > commercial outlets or websites. > > Thanks, > > Arlys in Portland, Oregon > > On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:00:26 -0700 Heather Meadows > > writes: >> >> That's listed as a Wicking bra, though Lee. Coolmax >> isn't the only option for comfort. You might want to >> try the store in Berkeley to see it in person. >> > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 6 17:06:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h66L61HP022867 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 17:06:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h66L3cUw000801 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Jul 2003 15:03:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h66L3WIB024333; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 15:03:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h66L3TIB024294 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 15:03:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30C35BE95C for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 23:03:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F088F61.5080505@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:06:41 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] searching for pictures of sleeves X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I am looking for detailed pictures of the type of sleeves as in the portrait of Maria di Cosimo. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Bluedress/Bluedress.html Untill now I have only found some very smal pictures. The sleeves in the portrait look like the are from transparent silk with gold stripes and patterns woven in to it, and some white silk lining. I wonder if I could get fabric like this. The forepart looks different, more like silk with gold ribbon sewn on to it...I think. Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 6 19:01:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h66N1kHP023056 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 19:01:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h66MxiUw008437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Jul 2003 16:59:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h66MxhGD007470; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 16:59:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h66MxgGD007466 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 16:59:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ZITt-0003pG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Jul 2003 15:59:41 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] searching for pictures of sleeves Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 15:59:53 -0700 Message-ID: <000301c34412$50f290c0$6601a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <3F088F61.5080505@kabelfoon.nl> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes! You can...not sure where right now, but I bought some sheer white silk with gold stripes in it from an upholstery store. I wonder if you might find something similar here: http://www.designerfabrics.ca They have the most unique silks I have found online....Good Luck. Sure is a pretty dress. What are the blue strips going to be on it? I think you are right about the images being of the same sleeves if not the same person...could be or might be a daughter or relative who inherited the sleeves. I think you may have made a discovery here...do you know who has the second picture these days? -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Deredere Galbraith Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 2:07 PM To: H-Costume Subject: [h-cost] searching for pictures of sleeves Hi, I am looking for detailed pictures of the type of sleeves as in the portrait of Maria di Cosimo. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Bluedress/Bluedress.html Untill now I have only found some very smal pictures. The sleeves in the portrait look like the are from transparent silk with gold stripes and patterns woven in to it, and some white silk lining. I wonder if I could get fabric like this. The forepart looks different, more like silk with gold ribbon sewn on to it...I think. Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 6 19:29:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h66NTDHP023091 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 19:29:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h66NRLUw010273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Jul 2003 17:27:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h66NRKGD018429; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 17:27:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h66NRIGD018404 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 17:27:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asv9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (asv9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.30]) by mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Jul 2003 19:27:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optonline.net (ool-18bde58e.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.229.142]) h66NRCZW009052 for ; Sun, 06 Jul 2003 19:27:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 19:27:16 -0400 From: "J.A.Urbik" To: Historical Costume Message-id: <3F08B054.FF7DB986@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <000301c34412$50f290c0$6601a8c0@SG01> Subject: [h-cost] Nails -Painting and other decoraations X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My interest area is europe in the 1500's. I get fairly short acrylic (i think...), but with a french manicure. Nails are not always available for looking at in the pictures on the web. Has anyone noticed a pictures of people with any type of nail treatments? I am not really willing to get rid of my nails, but I am curious about if anyone had noticed it. thanks for your time, jordana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 6 20:08:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6708LHP023372 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 20:08:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6706VUw013555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Jul 2003 18:06:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6706T8f002706; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 18:06:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6706R8f002642 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 18:06:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.169.211d6451 (18251) for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 20:06:16 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <169.211d6451.2c3a1377@aol.com> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 20:06:15 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 910 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/4/03 4:24:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, linda.walton@dsl.pipex.com writes: > http://www.villaivlilla.com/toga.htm > and > http://home.pacific.net.au/~chrisandpeter/radical/male/male.htm > > I thought a toga was a circle. Not a football-like shape or a half circle [though I thought they did fold the circle in half....slightly off center so you got two bands showing on the edge]. I wouldn't trust either of these sites. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 6 21:22:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h671MLHP023591 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 21:22:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h671KeUw018456 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Jul 2003 19:20:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h671KcI5028732; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 19:20:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h671KYI5028691 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 19:20:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.155]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id h671ffP15934 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:41:41 +1000 Message-ID: <07b901c34426$4257c440$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <169.211d6451.2c3a1377@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:22:31 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Depends on the period- togae were worn for hundreds of years, and the styles changed somewhat over time. My husband contributed somewhat to the second mentioned site. This is for the late 1st century - early 2nd century AD. Wayne has been researching Roman wear for around 20 years now, and has read many well-respected articles on this subject, as have many of our fellow Roman reenactors here in Australia. This website is a quick overview they did for people dressing for an ad we filmed where we had other-period reenactors come along and make some cash, so it's fairly simplistic. Wayne's late 1st century tunica et toga, which I made to his specs in 1995 (photo is 2003 - and it's still white (no urine washing, though!), can be seen on http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=45 . Wayne can go into huge and complex amounts of detail on the changes in toga design over time, which I will try to get him to do for you all sometime, but this week his work is taking precedence over his life. Glenda. > > I thought a toga was a circle. Not a football-like shape or a half circle > [though I thought they did fold the circle in half....slightly off center so you > got two bands showing on the edge]. I wouldn't trust either of these sites. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 6 23:14:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h673ElHP024128 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 23:14:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h673D6Uw024410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Jul 2003 21:13:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h673D4Cx004377; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 21:13:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h673D3Cx004357 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 21:13:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m145.in-tch.com [216.166.191.145]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h672rvT20207 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 20:53:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F08E5A6.E7CB2B7A@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 21:14:46 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] [Fwd: Just testing....] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Trying this again. I'm still getting fatal error messages....most annoying! --sue -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Just testing.... Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 10:36:16 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com To: "h-costume@indra.com" Had "permanent fatal errors" crop up when I tried to respond to some threads from earlier in the week. <> --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 00:47:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h674lFHP024342 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 00:47:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h674j1sU001620 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:45:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h674j0rG007672; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:45:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11402.mail.yahoo.com (web11402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h674ivrG007648 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:44:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030707044457.8044.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.219] by web11402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 06 Jul 2003 21:44:57 PDT Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 21:44:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: [h-cost] Washing linen To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F057965.CA7BF872@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO suzy, you would know wierd crap like that ;> Jeff Brainard --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > And in a completely non-costume related bit, Dawn liquid all does a > great job disbursing paint evenly. Well, at least, Christmas tree > paint. You may be thinking "???", but some species of evergreens > used > for Christmas trees range naturally in color, some even yellowish, > and > this can be counteracted, a while prior to harvest, by spraying them > with a special, thinned mixture of green paint, which helps act as a > sunscreen for the tree's needles. My Dad always "boosted" it with > some > Dawn. > How's that for completely odd trivia for your day? > --sue, getting ready for 4th of July stuff...... > > IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > > > > In a message dated 7/4/03 2:10:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > > dme_maud@pacbell.net writes: > > > > > Correction: Dawn dishwashing liquid is not a fabric softener. It > is, > > > however, a terrific degreaser (it really "keeps grease away from > your > > > hands," as advertised), probably because it contains both anionic > and > > > nonanionic surfactants. As it removes "stuff," including whatever > a mill > > > adds to its fabric to finish it (sizing, starch, etc), using Dawn > will give > > > the impression of softening a fabric. You probably would get the > same > > > results from using a good laundry detergent (Tide, for example). > > > > Dawn is also really good for stains on anything vaguely washable by > hand. > > Pre-treating with Dawn and letting it soak in warm water will > generally get the > > stain out, or at least loosened. > > Y'know, Dawn, if I didn't know better, I'd say you were advertising > yourself! > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 00:56:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h674u2HP024356 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 00:56:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h674sRsU002262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:54:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h674sQrG010935; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:54:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11401.mail.yahoo.com (web11401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h674sOrG010915 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:54:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030707045423.70215.qmail@web11401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.219] by web11401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 06 Jul 2003 21:54:23 PDT Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 21:54:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's not such a bad idea. Anybody really delve into the real construction of the codpiece? I finally broke down and got me a copy of the Arnold Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620 and eventually will do up one of the Sture boys' pants. On another titillating note, I'm researching the robes of the Order of the Garter during Liz's reign and have nailed a *legal* copy of Janet Arnold's article on the robes belonging to Christian IV of Denmark/Norway just slightly post SCA period but still within the time of the robes being purple rather than blue. I'll keep you all posted if you like. I suppose this would be as good a time as any to introduce myself. I'm Jeff Brainard, though some of you may know me in the SCA as Marco di Caprioli (marcello amoung friends). I usually do the Elizabethan thing but am dead sick of not being as hardcore as I'd like, so I'm on this list now. Laters, Jeff > Well, with all the talk about breasts, I suppose we can talk > about "male members" too! (English slang note to Bjarne: "male > member" is sometimes used in trashy romance novels as a euphemism for > > penis.) > > Heather __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 03:43:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h677hEHP030949 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 03:43:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h677fVsU011630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 01:41:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h677fTFG007614; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 01:41:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web60004.mail.yahoo.com (web60004.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.116.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h677fOFG007530 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 01:41:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030707074119.68586.qmail@web60004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.53] by web60004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 08:41:19 BST Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:41:19 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kid's in Elizabethan costume ? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200307011331.h61DV3d9005193@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know this reply is too late for you Melanie, my server decided to hold onto my mail for a week! I do have a link to a picture of a little girl in Elizabethan costume, from my group: http://www.tudorgroup.co.uk/gallery/misc/katherine.htm Rachel ===== Threads of History www.threadsofhistory.co.uk __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 04:13:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h678DgHP010573 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 04:13:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h678BQsU013406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 02:11:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h678BOaU017782; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 02:11:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web60002.mail.yahoo.com (web60002.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.116.225]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h678BNaU017751 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 02:11:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030707081118.86322.qmail@web60002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.53] by web60002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 09:11:18 BST Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:11:18 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Advice wanted for an England trip To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200307011801.h61I1QEG013360@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Pam, Well if you do decide to come up let me know and I will show you around. If not I will take my camera this year and put some photos up to show you what you missed. Rachel > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:29:49 -0700 > From: "David" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Advice wanted for an England trip > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: <013901c33ff6$619a1b20$ea9fbbd0@bently> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dear Rachel, > > I've been keeping your note in my inbox until I got things straightened out > enough to know what I'd be doing when, and where. > > While I love Elizabethan, and would love to see Sulgrave Manor, I just don't > think it's going to happen, especially since I don't plan on renting a car > (I'm terrified of the idea of driving on the left, my brain just doesn't > make those kind of adjustments). > > Thank you so much for telling me about it, even if I can't go! > > Pam Dotson > Everett, WA USA ===== Threads of History www.threadsofhistory.co.uk __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 04:53:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h678rbHP028011 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 04:53:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h678prsU015482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 02:51:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h678pqaU029462; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 02:51:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h678poaU029393 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 02:51:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-100-82.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.100.82])3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFH83540; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:51:34 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <0dfa01c34464$f396f1c0$63754ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030707074119.68586.qmail@web60004.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kid's in Elizabethan costume ? Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:51:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks maybe next time I do the talk :) It went really well so I'm sure I'll get roped in again ! Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 06:48:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67AmUHP028210 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:48:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67AknsU020974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 04:46:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Akllx029408; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 04:46:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Akilx029306 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 04:46:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 782A1BE7E5 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:46:28 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F09504A.1080406@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 12:49:46 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] searching for pictures of sleeves References: <000301c34412$50f290c0$6601a8c0@SG01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Thanks for the link! They have very beautiful stuf! Like this Product ID 70196 Sheer Middle Embroidered With Metallic Gold Trim. I am not sure where the dark blue green embroidered strips are made from. It looks like silk or maby velvet? Still trying to figure out how I am going to do the embroidery. But I am planning to replicate this dress as authentic as possible. It will take a wile :-) . This portrait is in the Historical Art museum in Vienna The other is in Schlo Fasanerie, Eichenzel. I would love to see both portraits... Greetings, Deredere Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: >Yes! You can...not sure where right now, but I bought some sheer white >silk with gold stripes in it from an upholstery store. I wonder if you >might find something similar here: http://www.designerfabrics.ca >They have the most unique silks I have found online....Good Luck. Sure >is a pretty dress. What are the blue strips going to be on it? I think >you are right about the images being of the same sleeves if not the same >person...could be or might be a daughter or relative who inherited the >sleeves. I think you may have made a discovery here...do you know who >has the second picture these days? > >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] >On Behalf Of Deredere Galbraith >Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 2:07 PM >To: H-Costume >Subject: [h-cost] searching for pictures of sleeves > > > >Hi, > >I am looking for detailed pictures of the type of sleeves as in the >portrait of Maria di Cosimo. >http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Bluedress/Bluedress.html >Untill now I have only found some very smal pictures. > >The sleeves in the portrait look like the are from transparent silk with >gold stripes and patterns woven in to it, and some white silk lining. >I wonder if I could get fabric like this. > >The forepart looks different, more like silk with gold ribbon sewn on to >it...I think. > >Greetings, > Deredere > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 08:31:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67CViHP028532 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:31:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67CTrsU027433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:29:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67CTqEk003849; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67CToEk003809 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:29:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m167.in-tch.com [216.166.191.167]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h67CAhT04315 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:10:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F096825.A7E458F7@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 06:31:33 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: [Fwd: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sending this again (didn't work the 1st time). --sue -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 12:19:10 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com To: Historical Costume References: <20030703.081733.-358321.1.catpurson@juno.com> <002b01c34171$933a7ea0$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> I'd recommend doing one of those bodices or corsets stiffened with hemp cord. Use a decent-weight linen for the fabric. With these materials, your sports corset would be washable, and "breathable" from the natural fibers. --sue Rebecca wrote: > > I have also pondered a bit the thought of a sports corset. My husband and I > are starting to run, and I commented that my corset certainly holds me > better than any sports bra I have worn (now I have not sprung for the $40+ > bras, so I don't know how they would work). And that just naturally led to > "how would I make a corset that was sports-proof?" Would steel boning work, > or would I need some other, lighter material? What about fabric _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 08:33:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67CXZHP028537 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:33:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67CVgsU027546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:31:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67CVgEk004409; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:31:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67CVeEk004374 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:31:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m167.in-tch.com [216.166.191.167]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h67CCYT05007 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:12:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F096894.3F3B719C@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 06:33:24 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: [Fwd: Re: [h-cost] Started a New Dress Diary] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sending this again.... --sue -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [h-cost] Started a New Dress Diary Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 10:31:54 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com To: Historical Costume References: <29.43a10a94.2c3483fc@aol.com> How fun! I look forward to seeing more of your details as your project progresses. My "project" for the year is a complete middle-class outfit, in much the same way you're doing one, but I'm being sidetracked at the moment by having to find a new place to live. Oh, and learning drop spindle (my new guilty pleasure! ). --sue, who adores dress diaries in any case LoreleiMorte@aol.com wrote: > > Yeah, what the subject line says > > http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/lowclass.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 08:34:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67CYKHP028542 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:34:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67CWXsU027634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:32:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67CWXEk004747; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:32:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67CWVEk004681 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:32:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m167.in-tch.com [216.166.191.167]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h67CDPT05327 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:13:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F0968C7.658734D@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 06:34:15 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: [Fwd: Re: [h-cost] New Book -Painting and the Market in Early ModernAntwerp] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sending it again.... --sue -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Book -Painting and the Market in Early Modern Antwerp Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 10:26:14 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com To: Historical Costume References: <20030704155324.T13623-100000@shell.siscom.net> Drea, do you have any more info on that Beuckelaer book? Like an ISBN? --sue, who never needs an excuse for a new book or more fabric ;o) Drea Leed wrote: > > This is a great book! It has pictures of lowerclass women and men that > I've never seen anywhere else. Plus, it has bunches of great info on how > one should interpret genre paintings of the late 16th & early 17th > century...what can be taken as literal, and which aspects are more > symbolic. Definitely get it, if you can afford it! > > The other must-get book for Flemish genre art is "Joachim Beuckelaer: > Het Markt-En Keukenstuk in De Nederlanden 1550-1650.", published by Stad > Gent (the city of Ghent.) > > It's in Dutch, but is cram-packed full of tons of huge color pictures of > marketwomen and the marketplace and 16th c kitchens. > > Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 09:04:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67D4eHP028619 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:04:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67D2gsU029332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 07:02:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67D2eK2015432; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 07:02:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67D2cK2015405 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 07:02:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail23.ureach.com (mailout.ureach.com [172.16.2.83]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA31832 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:02:38 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-223-181.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.223.181]) by mail23.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA04153 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:02:37 -0400 Message-ID: <001801c34487$7795de10$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS / KWAR Announcement Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:58:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Are we going to wear little "h"s so we know each other? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Carlson" To: Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS / KWAR Announcement > >From: Robin Netherton > >I'll be there (obviously!). Anyone else? I'd love to meet some people from > >the list... > > Rumor has it I'm supposed to attend. > > Marc > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 09:06:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67D62HP028630 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:06:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67D4AsU029419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 07:04:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67D4AK2015946; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 07:04:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67D48K2015909 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 07:04:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.193.1cddf6c1 (4004) for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:03:59 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <193.1cddf6c1.2c3ac9bf@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:03:59 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 910 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/6/03 9:21:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, glendar@compassnet.com.au writes: > Wayne can go into huge and complex amounts of detail on the changes in toga > design over time, which I will try to get him to do for you all sometime, > but this week his work is taking precedence over his life. > > Cool. Sounds interesting. We'll have to remind you later..... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 09:12:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67DCjHP028654 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:12:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67DAvsU029754 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 07:10:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67DAuK2018222; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 07:10:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67DAsK2018198 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 07:10:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail20.ureach.com (mail20.ureach.com [172.16.2.80]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01511 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:10:53 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-223-181.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.223.181]) by mail20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA01507 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:10:53 -0400 Message-ID: <006301c34488$9f0f31c0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F088F61.5080505@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] searching for pictures of sleeves Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:06:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To me, the sleeves look like the gold might be sewn on. Look at the close up picture of the sleeve. It looks like the gold is slightly raised in comparison to the white. You can especially see it on the topmost gold stripe. Of course this could just be my eyes! Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "H-Costume" Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 5:06 PM Subject: [h-cost] searching for pictures of sleeves > > > Hi, > > I am looking for detailed pictures of the type of sleeves as in the > portrait of Maria di Cosimo. > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Bluedress/Bluedress.html > Untill now I have only found some very smal pictures. > > The sleeves in the portrait look like the are from transparent silk with > gold stripes and patterns woven in to it, and some white silk lining. > I wonder if I could get fabric like this. > > The forepart looks different, more like silk with gold ribbon sewn on to > it...I think. > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 09:42:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Dg0HP028696 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:42:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67DdxsU001667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 07:39:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67DdvK2028832; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 07:39:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h67DdtK2028797 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 07:39:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 22180 invoked by uid 65534); 7 Jul 2003 13:39:49 -0000 Received: from p5080109A.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.2.21]) (80.128.16.154) by mail.gmx.net (mp027) with SMTP; 07 Jul 2003 15:39:49 +0200 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 15:39:48 +0200 Subject: Re: [h-cost] searching for pictures of sleeves From: Cassandra Greer To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <006301c34488$9f0f31c0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all! I found this cool portrait of a 16th lady with a really cool pearl and flower and what looks like black velvet cap. Does anyone have any idea where the original is etc? http://homepage.mac.com/cassandragreer/question.html Thanks! Cass :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 10:04:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67E4kHP028746 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:04:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67E2gsU003406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:02:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67E2ep3008342; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:02:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67E2bp3008315 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:02:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p4-max20.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.118.161.68] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19ZWZe-0002wl-00; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 02:02:34 +1200 Message-ID: <002001c34490$696a2810$44a176cb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F088F61.5080505@kabelfoon.nl> <006301c34488$9f0f31c0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> Subject: Re: [h-cost] searching for pictures of sleeves Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 02:02:31 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > To me, the sleeves look like the gold might be sewn on. Look at the close up > picture of the sleeve. It looks like the gold is slightly raised in > comparison to the white. You can especially see it on the topmost gold > stripe. Of course this could just be my eyes! No, it probably is sewn on given the sheer number of gold on white striped sleeves I've come across in recent searches of late 16thC clothing. They all seem to have that vertical line down the cf of the sleeve too. It may be obvious to those who study this era closely as to how many ways these sleeves were constructed;) Well as a whole bodice actually, I keep seeing the same pattern on an under bodice (thinking of making one of these gowns myself, just need to get the perfect cotton velvet;) ) The stripes all come in a variety of widths/number/fabrics. I found a great portrait of Elizabeth de Valois an the print really showed her stripes were definately sewn down. The white silk (satin or whatever) is ever so slightly puffed/gathered between each stripe. And I don't really think the other portrait shows the same sleeves. The number of stripes are different, though there does seem to be a sheer layer over the top too. michaela annoyed as I lost *all* my email at the same time as having my emails returned from the h-cost list server.. so I lost a long write up of my how to lace my kirtle properly post... http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 10:10:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67EA9HP028756 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:10:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67E83sU004121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67E80p3011868; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h67E7op3011602 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:07:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 10407 invoked by uid 65534); 7 Jul 2003 14:07:44 -0000 Received: from p5080109A.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.2.21]) (80.128.16.154) by mail.gmx.net (mp004) with SMTP; 07 Jul 2003 16:07:44 +0200 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 16:07:43 +0200 From: Cassandra Greer To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] 16th cent ladies cap with peals and flowers on black velvet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Whoops let me chance the heading! > Hi all! > > I found this cool portrait of a 16th lady with a really cool pearl and > flower and what looks like black velvet cap. Does anyone have any idea where > the original is etc? > > http://homepage.mac.com/cassandragreer/question.html > > Thanks! > > Cass :) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 10:16:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67EG2HP028781 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:16:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67EDxsU004604 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:13:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67EDwp3014850; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:13:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu (kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu [169.147.166.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67EDUp3014657 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:13:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 09:13:30 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 09:13:24 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Washing linen X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Also, the reason swimsuits become discolored is not that the color is being "bled" out of them but that the color is being _bleached_, which is a different process. As far as I know, none of the remedies against colors _running_ offer any protection against _bleaching_. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My water aerobics instructor was the one who recommended the soaking with vinegar and she seemed to feel it would help the fabric last longer, not so worried about the colors. I kind of figured the vinegar was to counteract the bleach but soaking, and then swimming/washing, over and over would seem to negate it's effect pretty fast. Using a little vinegar in the wash makes much more sense to me. As I am now a regular at water aerobics I will have a chance to give this a try :). Thanks for everyone's input! Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 11:26:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67FQRHP028909 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:26:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67FOIsU011398 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:24:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67FOGRv023357; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:24:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67FOCRv023306 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:24:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net ([67.124.118.61]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HHN002PTUQJOA@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 08:23:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 08:20:47 -0700 From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nails -Painting and other decoraations In-reply-to: <3F08B054.FF7DB986@optonline.net> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030707075008.00b347c8@pop.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 References: <000301c34412$50f290c0$6601a8c0@SG01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:27 PM 7/6/2003 -0400, you wrote: >My interest area is europe in the 1500's. I get fairly short acrylic (i >think...), but with a french manicure. Nails are not always available >for looking at in the pictures on the web. Has anyone noticed a >pictures of people with any type of nail treatments? > >I am not really willing to get rid of my nails, but I am curious about >if anyone had noticed it. > >thanks for your time, > >jordana Having just checked the following portraits (color photos from Boucher): A. Bronzino: "Lucretia Panciatichi," c.1550-60 Holbein: "Jane Seymour", 1536 Anon.: "Mary, Queen of Scots", before 1575 Anon: "Queen Elizabeth I", c.1593 (the Ditchley Portrait) L. Cranach: "Woman with a Hat", c.1525 L. Cranach: "Portrait of Sybilla of Cleves," (n.d.) Anon. "Portrait presumed to be Elizabeth, daughter of Gustavus I," c.1590 Antonio Moro: "Catherine of Austria, Queen of Portugal," c.1552 Titian: "Isabella of Portugal, Wife of Charles V," c.1535 I feel pretty safe in saying that varnishing or doing anything special to nails was not done by regular people in Europe during the 16th century. As most of the compounds used to manufacture nail varnish were not invented until the early 20th century, I would be surprised to see any mention of varnishing nails prior to that time. All of the women whose portraits I checked are depicted with their nails cut short (at the finger tip) and unvarnished. The earliest mention of nail varnish being available that I could find was a page reference in a reprint of a 1927 Sears Roebuck catalog. Unfortunately, that page was not included, so I can't tell you what colors were available. I do know, however, that it was fairly commonplace by the 1930s (the first several scenes of the play/movie "The Women" (1939) revolve around the story a manicurist is relating and a specific color of nail varnish--Jungle Red--one should ask for to get the story), and a cosmetology textbook I have from 1940 gives complete instructions on how to give manicures and varnish nails. IIRC, long, varnished nails became fashionable about the same time as being tan: both were symbols of having money. Long nails indicated that you didn't have to do any work with your hands, including housework, and varnish draws attention to the fact you have long nails, while having a tan indicated that you had enough money to travel to places like California and Florida to do nothing except work on a tan. Unfortunately, a french manicure does stand out, just as modern make-up stands out, on photographs taken of people in 16th C. costume. You must remember, the camera sees every detail, where the eye can be drawn to specific areas and away from others. The bands of white from a french manicure stand out as a jarring note, as nails long enough to give an impression similar to a french manicure were not worn. You may want to consider wearing gloves: they are period, appropriate, and can disguise/hide acrylic nails. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 11:43:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67FhQHP028936 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:43:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67FfPsU013394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:41:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67FfORv004634; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:41:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67FfKRv004588 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:41:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (adsl-67-124-118-61.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [67.124.118.61]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h67FfIDm017085 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:41:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030707083043.00b5b168@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 08:38:58 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt In-Reply-To: <20030707045423.70215.qmail@web11401.mail.yahoo.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:54 PM 7/6/2003 -0700, you wrote: >That's not such a bad idea. Anybody really delve into the real >construction of the codpiece? I finally broke down and got me a copy of >the Arnold Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620 and eventually will do up one >of the Sture boys' pants. On another titillating note, I'm researching >the robes of the Order of the Garter during Liz's reign and have nailed >a *legal* copy of Janet Arnold's article on the robes belonging to >Christian IV of Denmark/Norway just slightly post SCA period but still >within the time of the robes being purple rather than blue. I'll keep >you all posted if you like. > >I suppose this would be as good a time as any to introduce myself. I'm >Jeff Brainard, though some of you may know me in the SCA as Marco di >Caprioli (marcello amoung friends). I usually do the Elizabethan thing >but am dead sick of not being as hardcore as I'd like, so I'm on this >list now. > >Laters, > >Jeff Hi Jeff and welcome! The pattern for Svante Sture's pluderhose in Arnold work, but you'll probably want to build a toile before cutting into the actual fabric, just to make sure the fit works on your body. A friend of mine has built about 10 sets of pluders for different people; she says you just have to leave everything you know about building modern pants behind, and take it on faith that it will work, as the seams are in (to us) really weird places. My husband's pluders are constructed of dark green wool edged with red braid, flat-lined with white linen, and with light brown linen "bags" (the baggy center lining). Oh, the codpiece pattern works too. His matches his pluders, and has a bell on it (those silly German boys!). Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 11:57:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67FvtHP028986 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:57:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67FtpsU015155 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:55:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67FtoM5014642; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:55:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67FtjM5014578 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:55:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ZYL9-00041b-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 08:55:43 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:55:57 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01c344a0$41bf0640$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <20030707045423.70215.qmail@web11401.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Welcome Jeff: Was: Feelin' ignernt X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Welcome Jeff, It is great to have another guy on the list! There aren't too many..... Sounds like a very interesting project...I am sure if you post your results you will have lots of attention. I know there are folks who have done codpieces on the list (I am not one of them). If you will repost and change the subject line, you will have more luck getting answers. Again, welcome to the crazy h-cost list! Saragrace (aka Sg) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 12:00:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67G0iHP028995 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:00:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67FwosU015458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:58:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67FwoM5016974; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:58:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67FwlM5016953 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:58:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ZYO7-0000im-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 08:58:47 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 16th cent ladies cap with peals and flowers on black velvet Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:58:56 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01c344a0$af581f70$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Did you try writing the museum? Very cool picture... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 12:10:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67GAhHP029015 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:10:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67G8WsU016657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:08:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67G8UM5023369; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:08:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67G8PM5023312 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:08:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ZYXQ-0007fJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 09:08:25 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:08:38 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01c344a2$07c1adb0$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <3F09504A.1080406@kabelfoon.nl> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Designer Fabrics-how do you get to product 70196? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have never noticed that these folks don't have a search function. I always just browse and drool. How did you get to 70196..I tried silks and sheers...? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 12:17:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67GHUHP029026 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:17:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67GFVsU017382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:15:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67GFUM5027841; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:15:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67GFOM5027739 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:15:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bently (dialport26.tukwila.eskimo.net [208.187.9.162]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA04874 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:15:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00af01c344a3$22ce2880$a209bbd0@bently> From: "David" To: "Historical Costume" References: <169.211d6451.2c3a1377@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:16:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO After looking at these web sites, I have a question (possibly a dumb one, I've never paid much attention to Roman before): How do you weave something "into a semi-circular form"? I'm not familiar with any weaving technique that would allow you to do such a thing, and I'd love to learn about a new one! Pam Dotson Everett, WA USA ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's > In a message dated 7/4/03 4:24:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > linda.walton@dsl.pipex.com writes: > > > http://www.villaivlilla.com/toga.htm > > and > > http://home.pacific.net.au/~chrisandpeter/radical/male/male.htm > > > > > > I thought a toga was a circle. Not a football-like shape or a half circle > [though I thought they did fold the circle in half....slightly off center so you > got two bands showing on the edge]. I wouldn't trust either of these sites. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 12:20:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67GKcHP029054 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:20:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67GIgsU017733 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:18:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67GIeM5029864; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:18:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67GIbM5029747 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:18:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C817BE96C for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:18:31 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F099E1E.3080606@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:21:50 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Designer Fabrics-how do you get to product 70196? References: <000e01c344a2$07c1adb0$6401a8c0@SG01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It is not a fabrick but a trim :-) http://www.designerfabrics.ca/cgi-bin/DCShops/dcshop.cgi?database=trims&action=view_product&productID=70196&category=9DCRB1¤tNO=1 Greetings, Deredere Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: >I have never noticed that these folks don't have a search function. I >always just browse and drool. How did you get to 70196..I tried silks >and sheers...? > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 13:06:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67H6fHP029156 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:06:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67H4nsU022806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:04:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67H4k0I001839; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:04:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67H4h0I001806 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:04:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail21.ureach.com (mail21.ureach.com [172.16.2.81]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19497 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:04:43 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-223-181.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.223.181]) by mail21.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA12912 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:04:42 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01c344a9$47e2e600$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] searching for pictures of sleeves Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:00:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know where it is from, but the hat is spectacular! Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cassandra Greer" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] searching for pictures of sleeves > Hi all! > > I found this cool portrait of a 16th lady with a really cool pearl and > flower and what looks like black velvet cap. Does anyone have any idea where > the original is etc? > > http://homepage.mac.com/cassandragreer/question.html > > Thanks! > > Cass :) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 13:15:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67HFfHP029167 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:15:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67HDwsU023759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:13:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67HDu0I008757; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:13:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67HDr0I008696 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:13:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asv8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (asv8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.47]) by mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HHN00MDUZV4D7@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:13:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optonline.net (ool-18bde58e.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.229.142]) h67HDY1F000389 for ; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:13:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:13:47 -0400 From: "J.A.Urbik" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nails -Painting and other decoraations To: Historical Costume Message-id: <3F09AA4B.79C68B79@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <000301c34412$50f290c0$6601a8c0@SG01> <5.2.0.9.0.20030707075008.00b347c8@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, the glove idea is a great one. I like my fake nails in modern life-my own nails up to the point that I started to get fake ones alwasy were so weak they bent back and hurt unless i kept them alsmost too short but i have been wondering what to do with them in costume. I only started to get them done in the last year, so i have not delt with nails as a facet of dress before. Dawn Jacobson wrote: >(lots of god stuff cliped) You may want to > consider wearing gloves: they are period, appropriate, and can > disguise/hide acrylic nails. > > Dawn > > Dawn Jacobson > Vallejo, CA, USA > > Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 14:05:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67I5OHP029309 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:05:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67I3NsU029956 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:03:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67I3LUs014212; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:03:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67I3GUs014136 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:03:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-14.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.14]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F5392F94C for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:03:14 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nails -Painting and other decoraations Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3F09AA4B.79C68B79@optonline.net> Message-Id: <47B327E8-B0A5-11D7-935C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-DCC-MessageCare-Metrics: net.indra.com 1108; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO you can always keep them short-ish and ask for a "natural" as well. They usually have a sheer buff color that just makes your nails look clean. Also, many salons have matte top coats for "male manicures" (women can of course get them too) for a natural look. On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 10:13 AM, J.A.Urbik wrote: > Thanks, the glove idea is a great one. I like my fake nails in modern > life-my own nails up to the point that I started to get fake ones > alwasy > were so weak they bent back and hurt unless i kept them alsmost too > short but i have been wondering what to do with them in costume. I > only > started to get them done in the last year, so i have not delt with > nails > as a facet of dress before. > > > Dawn Jacobson wrote: >> (lots of god stuff cliped) > > You may want to >> consider wearing gloves: they are period, appropriate, and can >> disguise/hide acrylic nails. >> >> Dawn >> >> Dawn Jacobson >> Vallejo, CA, USA >> >> Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 14:31:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67IV3HP029373 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:31:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67ITEsU003738 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:29:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67ITCUs004449; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:29:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67IT8Us004400 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:29:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool0620.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.178.148.110] helo=earthlink.net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Zajb-0006KB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 11:29:07 -0700 Message-ID: <3F09BD15.81B70EC0@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 11:33:57 -0700 From: Cecilia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's References: <169.211d6451.2c3a1377@aol.com> <00af01c344a3$22ce2880$a209bbd0@bently> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO David wrote: > After looking at these web sites, I have a question (possibly a dumb one, > I've never paid much attention to Roman before): How do you weave something > "into a semi-circular form"? I'm not familiar with any weaving technique > that would allow you to do such a thing, and I'd love to learn about a new > one! There is a technique where you take a circle (such as the outside of a wheel) and weave a circular piece (often a rug). You first put in your warps, in the same manner as hubs would go if it were a wagon wheel. Then you begin weaving from the middle, going to the outside. As the warps become farther a part, you add in new warps. I see no reason why this technique couldn't be adapted to a semi-circle by beginning with a semi-circle. By the way - Everett is great. My sister lives in Snohomish and I was there last week and will be going back later this month. -- Cecilia knitting a new paradigm in southern California pyrfectpup@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~pyrfectpup/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 14:37:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67IbaHP029390 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:37:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67IZtsU004528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:35:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67IZsUs009025; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:35:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67IZgUs008866 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:35:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-32-234.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.32.234]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h67IZVDx006103 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030707105832.051189d0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 11:02:28 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations In-Reply-To: <002b01c34171$933a7ea0$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> References: <20030703.081733.-358321.1.catpurson@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I love mine > > and would wear it daily if it weren't so hot and so damned hard to get > > into. And it does give an odd shape for T-shirt and jeans. > > > > Lalah > > Never give up, Never surrender > >AMEN! Although I have to see if I can take the sides in a bit on mine - I >seem to have dropped some weight since first constructing it (in one sense - >YAY; in another - grrrr ;-) > >I have also pondered a bit the thought of a sports corset. My husband and I >are starting to run, and I commented that my corset certainly holds me >better than any sports bra I have worn (now I have not sprung for the $40+ >bras, so I don't know how they would work). And that just naturally led to >"how would I make a corset that was sports-proof?" Would steel boning work, >or would I need some other, lighter material? What about fabric - CoolMax >corsets? And of course, how would it be marketed? I can't see a whole lot of >women being excited about wearing a *corset* to exercise in! Any thoughts? >(gee, maybe I *should* look at some sort of patent on this!) Let me be your first customer. I wear my Victorian corset while morris dancing, which involves lots of jumping up and down, because no sports bra I have ever seen prevents the bouncing I find so painful. But it's seriously not a modern shape. I'd like a corset that I could wear for everyday (Margo - you listen too). I would buy someone else's pattern for them, if one existed, and make several. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 14:39:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67IdTHP029396 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:39:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67IZjsU004481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:35:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67IZhUs008885; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:35:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67IZfUs008852 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:35:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-32-234.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.32.234]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h67IZVDv006103 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:35:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030707105342.0510aa10@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 10:56:20 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Modern corset (was Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations In-Reply-To: <20030703.081733.-358321.1.catpurson@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is there a historical corset that gives anything like a modern shape when worn under modern clothes? I'd wear one for everyday if I had it. Actually, I'd build several and wear them. > I made my Elizabethan corset from Margo's pattern. And wore it >for almost a week at an event. I was walking around on asphalt and >cement for from seven to twelve hours and at the end of the day my feet >and legs were killing me, but my back (that normally aches) was not at >all painful. As far as the bust goes, I do tend to the squash flat >method and the corset was actually more comfortable than any bra I have >ever owned. It doesn't seem reasonable, but there it is. I love mine >and would wear it daily if it weren't so hot and so damned hard to get >into. And it does give an odd shape for T-shirt and jeans. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 14:46:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67IkOHP029413 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:46:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67IiasU005517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:44:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67IiZUs014874; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:44:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ohsmtp03.ogw.rr.com (ohsmtp03.ogw.rr.com [65.24.7.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67IiWUs014830 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:44:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-059-119.neo.rr.com [24.209.59.119]) by ohsmtp03.ogw.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with SMTP id h67IiVtw021255 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:44:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002701c344b7$c88e2a90$773bd118@duncan> From: "Ailith Mackintosh" To: "Historical Costume" References: <169.211d6451.2c3a1377@aol.com> <00af01c344a3$22ce2880$a209bbd0@bently> <3F09BD15.81B70EC0@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:43:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h67IkOHP029413 Status: RO Greetings. On July 16 and 23, PBS will be airing a 2 part documentary on The Six Wives of Henry VIII from the wives' points of view. Is this the one that was broadcast a while back in the UK? Dr. David Starkey is the host. kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 14:54:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Is4HP029420 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:54:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67IqNsU006270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:52:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67IqKUs019553; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:52:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67IqEUs019487 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:52:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-14.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.14]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19D752F942 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:53:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:52:13 -0700 Subject: Re: Modern corset (was Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030707105342.0510aa10@mail.frys.com> Message-Id: <1F388B4E-B0AC-11D7-935C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would think a regency corset would give the most modern shape, or could be adapted to, since it's the lift & separate style that most modern bras aim for. On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 10:56 AM, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > Is there a historical corset that gives anything like a modern shape > when worn under modern clothes? I'd wear one for everyday if I had > it. Actually, I'd build several and wear them. > >> I made my Elizabethan corset from Margo's pattern. And wore >> it >> for almost a week at an event. I was walking around on asphalt and >> cement for from seven to twelve hours and at the end of the day my >> feet >> and legs were killing me, but my back (that normally aches) was not at >> all painful. As far as the bust goes, I do tend to the squash flat >> method and the corset was actually more comfortable than any bra I >> have >> ever owned. It doesn't seem reasonable, but there it is. I love mine >> and would wear it daily if it weren't so hot and so damned hard to get >> into. And it does give an odd shape for T-shirt and jeans. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 14:59:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67IxSHP029435 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:59:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67IvmsU006734 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:57:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67IvlxY022856; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:57:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [63.251.216.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67IvixY022824 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:57:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from megan2 (pcp04229141pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [68.37.6.107]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 899071BF65 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:57:51 -0700 (PDT) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] sports corset Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:59:15 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030707105832.051189d0@mail.frys.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You all might just have something here. Let's see, if I recall correctly, we need a sports corset boned with something like hemp or cotton cord to make it washable, made out of either linen or coolmax fabric, multi-sized as we run the range from size 2 to 30+ on this list, with cup sized from small to multiple-D. What about take Margo's corset, shorten a few inches off the bottom, perhaps add just a bit of curve to the front instead of completely straight-fronted (that can be done if not using the heavy spring steel), and try that out? I'm game, but just moved and my sewing room is all over the garage right now, and it will be a week or two before I get it put together again. Who's first? -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 15:28:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67JSQHP029484 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:28:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67JQgsU009991 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:26:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67JQexY013194; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:26:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67JQaxY013148 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:26:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030707192636.XVFW18592.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:26:36 +0100 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030707202519.0192e760@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:26:35 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII In-Reply-To: <002701c344b7$c88e2a90$773bd118@duncan> References: <169.211d6451.2c3a1377@aol.com> <00af01c344a3$22ce2880$a209bbd0@bently> <3F09BD15.81B70EC0@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-27B7D1D; boundary="=======360A5EED=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======360A5EED======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-27B7D1D; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 14:43 07/07/2003 -0400, you wrote: >On July 16 and 23, PBS will be airing a 2 part documentary on The Six >Wives of Henry VIII from the wives' points of view. Is this the one that >was broadcast a while back in the UK? Dr. David Starkey is the host. No, it was on Channel 5 last year. David Starkey is not my favourite academic, and the series was a great disappointment to me. Very simplistic, repeating some of the old myths that have been discarded by other scholars. Definitely the old view. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======360A5EED======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======360A5EED=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 15:29:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67JT1HP029488 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:29:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67JRMsU010083 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:27:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67JRIxY013866; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:27:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67JRExY013806 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:27:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030707192714.XWDA18592.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:27:14 +0100 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030707202645.01822118@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:27:13 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: Modern corset (was Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations In-Reply-To: <1F388B4E-B0AC-11D7-935C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20030707105342.0510aa10@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-27B7D1D; boundary="=======6CF04E98=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======6CF04E98======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-27B7D1D; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 11:52 07/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: >I would think a regency corset would give the most modern shape, >or could be adapted to, since it's the lift & separate style that most >modern bras aim for. It was rumoured that the women in "Pride and Prejudice" used Wonderbras to get the shape! Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======6CF04E98======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======6CF04E98=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 15:29:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67JTwHP029492 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:29:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67JSGsU010221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:28:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67JSGxY014727; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:28:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67JSCxY014674 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:28:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asv15.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (asv15.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.149]) by mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HHO00D9X63024@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 15:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optonline.net (ool-18bde58e.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.229.142]) h67JQWvl017406 for ; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 15:26:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 15:28:06 -0400 From: "J.A.Urbik" Subject: Re: [h-cost] sports corset To: Historical Costume Message-id: <3F09C9C6.20550E49@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My contrabutioon- Have the back lace up but have the front with one of those l800 (i think) busks that hook, so it can be ajusted for time of the month/weight gain and also easly gotten in and out of. its a good idea. I am just finishing my first corset today( sewing down the inside of the pipping around the edges and putting in the lacing holes) so i will have to see if it is as suppotive as all you ladies say. But i have to go out and get my nails and face done as i have just been called for a job intervview for tomorrow morning. PLEASE let me get this one. I am starting (h**l, i HAVE BEEN) to get very worried about having a job come the start of the new year. I actually applied to CITY (NYC) schools over the weekend. jordana "Megan M." wrote: > > You all might just have something here. Let's see, if I recall correctly, > we need a sports corset boned with something like hemp or cotton cord to > make it washable, made out of either linen or coolmax fabric, multi-sized as > we run the range from size 2 to 30+ on this list, with cup sized from small > to multiple-D. What about take Margo's corset, shorten a few inches off the > bottom, perhaps add just a bit of curve to the front instead of completely > straight-fronted (that can be done if not using the heavy spring steel), and > try that out? I'm game, but just moved and my sewing room is all over the > garage right now, and it will be a week or two before I get it put together > again. Who's first? > -Megan > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 15:33:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67JXTHP029501 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:33:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67JVhsU010570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:31:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67JVexY017508; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:31:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67JVaxY017419 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:31:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) OAA08194 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:31:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <000401c344be$84608960$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: "Historical Costume" References: <169.211d6451.2c3a1377@aol.com><00af01c344a3$22ce2880$a209bbd0@bently> <3F09BD15.81B70EC0@earthlink.net> <002701c344b7$c88e2a90$773bd118@duncan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:32:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, it is. I have the DVD on its way to me and have had the huge companion book for several months--the UK version--it has just been published here in the states. The book spends a lot more time and space with Henry's first two wives; Starkey has spent a lot of research going back to original and contemporary sources to bring some new light on especially Catherine of Aragon and theorizes a possible different cause of death for Prince Arthur, for instance. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 15:38:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67JcjHP029515 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:38:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Jb1sU011253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67JawxY021988; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:36:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67JasxY021944 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:36:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.234]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HHO00A9W6FXHN@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 12:35:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 12:35:50 -0700 From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: Modern corset (was Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations In-reply-to: <1F388B4E-B0AC-11D7-935C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030707121523.00e22a10@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20030707105342.0510aa10@mail.frys.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sounds like a good idea. I think I have the Past Pattterns 1830s corset pattern. Has anyone here ever used this one? Is it OK? >I would think a regency corset would give the most modern shape, >or could be adapted to, since it's the lift & separate style that most >modern bras aim for. > >>Is there a historical corset that gives anything like a modern shape when >>worn under modern clothes? I'd wear one for everyday if I had >>it. Actually, I'd build several and wear them. >> >>> I made my Elizabethan corset from Margo's pattern. And wore it >>>for almost a week at an event. I was walking around on asphalt and >>>cement for from seven to twelve hours and at the end of the day my feet >>>and legs were killing me, but my back (that normally aches) was not at >>>all painful. As far as the bust goes, I do tend to the squash flat >>>method and the corset was actually more comfortable than any bra I have >>>ever owned. It doesn't seem reasonable, but there it is. I love mine >>>and would wear it daily if it weren't so hot and so damned hard to get >>>into. And it does give an odd shape for T-shirt and jeans. I do other periods than historical, and my beady little brain started thinking about making a Regency-style corset into a mundane garment. I could use any cheap plastic boning I could find, since these would bend into my shape anyway, which would be perfect here. I could make it in outerwear fabrics, call it a bustier, and wear it under unbuttoned shirts. A removable non-washable busk could still be used, as it would come out before I washed the garment. I could make it fasten in the front, using real metal bones there instead of a busk. Thank you. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 16:01:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67K1oHP029560 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:01:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67K1FsU013873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:01:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67K1Eog009373; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:01:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h67K1Cog009361 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:01:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-122-230-26.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@67.122.230.26 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jul 2003 20:01:12 -0000 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:01:07 -0700 Subject: Re: Modern corset (was Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030707202645.01822118@pop.ntlworld.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 12:27 PM, Lynne Connolly wrote: > At 11:52 07/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: >> I would think a regency corset would give the most modern shape, >> or could be adapted to, since it's the lift & separate style that most >> modern bras aim for. > > It was rumoured that the women in "Pride and Prejudice" used > Wonderbras to get the shape! Um. No. Those were honest to God regency corsets under those gowns in A&E's "P&P". Jennifer Erle is just rather well endowed naturally. ;) Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 16:04:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67K4iHP029580 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:04:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67K4FsU014184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:04:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67K4Eog011374; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:04:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67K4Aog011312 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:04:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h67K49SH021933 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:04:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.196.227] (tnt-1-35.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.227]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67K44jN021743 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:04:07 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00af01c344a3$22ce2880$a209bbd0@bently> References: <169.211d6451.2c3a1377@aol.com> <00af01c344a3$22ce2880$a209bbd0@bently> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:57:33 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 9:16 AM -0700 7/7/03, David wrote: >After looking at these web sites, I have a question (possibly a dumb one, >I've never paid much attention to Roman before): How do you weave something >"into a semi-circular form"? I'm not familiar with any weaving technique >that would allow you to do such a thing, and I'd love to learn about a new >one! I don't know how solid the reasoning is for believing that togas were woven to shape, but consider that the evidence we have for Roman-style _tunics_ (via Egypt, although many of the examples are somewhat later) shows some fairly sophisticated weaving-to-shape. The tunics were made on a very wide loom -- probably upright -- with the garment set sideways across the loom. You'd start weaving at the top with one cuff edge, weave the first sleeve, widen the weaving area to do the body (leaving an open vertical slit for the neck opening) then finish up with the second sleeve. If one were weaving a toga to shape on the loom, it would be done similarly -- you'd simply ignore warp threads that weren't part of the shape you were trying to create. Keep in mind that these looms would have involved passing the shuttle through the shed by hand -- no flying shuttles! -- so you aren't slowing the process down by doing only partial wefts. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 16:05:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67K5AHP029585 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:05:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67K4esU014283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:04:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67K4cog011719; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:04:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67K4Eog011373 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:04:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h67K4DSH022171 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.196.227] (tnt-1-35.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.227]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67K44jP021743 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3F09BD15.81B70EC0@earthlink.net> References: <169.211d6451.2c3a1377@aol.com> <00af01c344a3$22ce2880$a209bbd0@bently> <3F09BD15.81B70EC0@earthlink.net> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:59:58 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:33 AM -0700 7/7/03, Cecilia wrote: >David wrote: > >> After looking at these web sites, I have a question (possibly a dumb one, >> I've never paid much attention to Roman before): How do you weave something >> "into a semi-circular form"? I'm not familiar with any weaving technique >> that would allow you to do such a thing, and I'd love to learn about a new >> one! > >There is a technique where you take a circle (such as the outside of a wheel) >and weave a circular piece (often a rug). You first put in your warps, in the >same manner as hubs would go if it were a wagon wheel. Then you begin weaving >from the middle, going to the outside. As the warps become farther a part, you >add in new warps. I see no reason why this technique couldn't be adapted to a >semi-circle by beginning with a semi-circle. I can't see this working for anything larger than, say, a hand-sized piece, unless you were adding new warps as you go along (as in some basketry techniques). I've never heard of using this sort of technique for large pieces of fabric. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 16:05:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67K5tHP029588 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:05:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67K5XsU014438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:05:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67K5Wog012471; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:05:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h67K5Jog012343 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:05:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-122-230-26.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@67.122.230.26 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jul 2003 20:05:18 -0000 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:05:13 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <000401c344be$84608960$55c98693@creighton.edu> Message-Id: <52162FC0-B0B6-11D7-90CE-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 12:32 PM, Cynthia Abel wrote: > Yes, it is. I have the DVD on its way to me and have had the huge > companion > book for several months--the UK version--it has just been published > here in > the states. The book spends a lot more time and space with Henry's > first > two wives; Starkey has spent a lot of research going back to original > and > contemporary sources to bring some new light on especially Catherine of > Aragon and theorizes a possible different cause of death for Prince > Arthur, > for instance. Starkey is an *interesting* historian. Definitely not my favorite. For the best "Six Wives" history ever, I suggest reading Alison Weir's "The Six Wives of Henry VIII". It's her best historical biography she's written, no doubt because she felt some personal connection to each of the wives. I'm reading her newest book "Mary Queen of Scots and the Murder of Lord Darnley" and it's slower going than "Six Wives", but loaded with research. I think that tends to be her weakness, actually... She's so well researched that getting all that information into one book is difficult without it being on the dry side. Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 16:09:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67K9SHP029605 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:09:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67K90sU014851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67K8xog014888; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:08:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law8-f36.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67K8uog014808 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:08:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:08:51 -0700 Received: from 207.96.224.159 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:08:51 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.96.224.159] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:08:51 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jul 2003 20:08:51.0642 (UTC) FILETIME=[95A4C1A0:01C344C3] Subject: [h-cost] Cloche hat pattern? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Would any of you know of a nice cloche hat pattern I could buy? Or would one of you have one and be nice enough to send me a copy (I'll pay for it, don't worry)? I've seen some on eBay but they always go for 30$+ US... once converted to CDN dollars, it's not worth it anymore... Thanks! Audrey _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 16:13:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KDTHP029620 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:13:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KD1sU015301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KD0og017385; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law8-f49.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KCwog017307 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:12:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:12:53 -0700 Received: from 207.96.224.159 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:12:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.96.224.159] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Washing linen Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:12:52 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jul 2003 20:12:53.0024 (UTC) FILETIME=[2584BA00:01C344C4] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Dawn being a fabric softener, I'd think it would soften any fabric. In >my > > experience, linen will soften as you wash it, no matter what you use. > >? I thought Dawn was a dishwashing detergent. Yes it is, I already sent a "whoops" email a few days back :-) Sorry again! _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 16:19:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KJoHP029641 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:19:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KE2sU015431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:14:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KE1og018078; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KDuog018015 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:13:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool0620.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.178.148.110] helo=earthlink.net) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ZcN1-0001y8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:13:55 -0700 Message-ID: <3F09D5A6.CC5A8AA7@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:18:46 -0700 From: Cecilia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] modern corsets, etc X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One reason that I'd like to learn how to draft patterns is to replicate the sari top that was made for me when I was 16. A friend of my mom's needed occasional help, and as a thank-you made me a sari. For the top she took a few measurements *(see below), then began to directly draw on the sari top material with a pencil. The end result fit wonderfully, and though I was told that it could be worn w/o a bra, as it was made to full that capacity, as a very modest 16 year old, I didn't try it then. However, over the years (until I could no longer fit into that top), I did try it as a top and bra all in one and it was very comfortable. My goal is to replicate the general idea, but without the sleeves. Instead of thin (and often hurtful) shoulder straps, there would be sort of tank top straps. It would also dip down some in the front and back, but not so far (especially in the back) that the material could cut into my back shoulder and hurt. It would also not end at the bottom just below the bust, which often causes more binding and (was it on this list) maybe problems with lymph nodes? * neck to edge of sleeve top - should seam to tip of breast (for each side / breast) - from tip of L breast to tip of R breast - overall bust measurements (above the bust; at the widest point; just below the bust) - diameter of arm -- Cecilia knitting a new paradigm in southern California pyrfectpup@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~pyrfectpup/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 16:20:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KKjHP029646 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:20:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KKFsU016176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:20:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KKDog022317; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:20:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KK9og022243 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:20:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool0620.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.178.148.110] helo=earthlink.net) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ZcT2-0004Pf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:20:08 -0700 Message-ID: <3F09D71A.7D63DA6C@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:24:58 -0700 From: Cecilia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's References: <169.211d6451.2c3a1377@aol.com> <3F09BD15.81B70EC0@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heather Rose Jones wrote: > At 11:33 AM -0700 7/7/03, Cecilia wrote: > > >There is a technique where you take a circle (such as the outside of a wheel) > >and weave a circular piece (often a rug). You first put in your warps, in the > >same manner as hubs would go if it were a wagon wheel. Then you begin weaving > >from the middle, going to the outside. As the warps become farther a part, you > >add in new warps. I see no reason why this technique couldn't be adapted to a > >semi-circle by beginning with a semi-circle. > > I can't see this working for anything larger than, say, a hand-sized > piece, unless you were adding new warps as you go along (as in some > basketry techniques). I've never heard of using this sort of > technique for large pieces of fabric. What I wrote at the top was a bit rambling. Anyway -- as noted in the passage that should now appear in italics and underlined, you do add warps along the way. After your circle is woven so that the initial warps are now further apart (as the spokes to a wheel would be), you take more of your warp yarn and begin attaching it at each new point by weaving back into the middle a bit more, then extending that new warp back to the outside of the circle. This technique works well with rugs that are made of relatively thick warp and weft yarns. To change it so that a semi-circle were the end result, would not be that difficult. What I see problematic, is to get a fabric that would work as a toga, much thinner yarns would be used and the process would be very time consuming - as compared to a "straight" fabric loom that had a rigid heddle or two heddles. -- Cecilia knitting a new paradigm in southern California pyrfectpup@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~pyrfectpup/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 16:24:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KOTHP029654 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:24:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KO0sU016617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KNxog024848; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KNtog024774 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:23:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bently (dialport64.tukwila.eskimo.net [208.187.15.36]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA24356 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:23:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008401c344c5$dd923ae0$240fbbd0@bently> From: "David" To: "Historical Costume" References: <169.211d6451.2c3a1377@aol.com><3F09BD15.81B70EC0@earthlink.net> <3F09D71A.7D63DA6C@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:25:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This technique works well with rugs that are made of relatively thick warp and weft > yarns. To change it so that a semi-circle were the end result, would not be that > difficult. What I see problematic, is to get a fabric that would work as a toga, > much thinner yarns would be used and the process would be very time consuming - as > compared to a "straight" fabric loom that had a rigid heddle or two heddles. > I can't see how this technique would give an appropriate drape for a toga. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 16:25:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KPTHP029666 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:25:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KP1sU016720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KP0og025540; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KOvog025513 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:24:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool0620.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.178.148.110] helo=earthlink.net) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ZcXg-0004u8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:24:56 -0700 Message-ID: <3F09D83A.A72197AF@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:29:46 -0700 From: Cecilia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cloche hat pattern? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > Hi, > Would any of you know of a nice cloche hat pattern I could buy? Or would one > of you have one and be nice enough to send me a copy (I'll pay for it, don't > worry)? > I've seen some on eBay but they always go for 30$+ US... once converted to > CDN dollars, it's not worth it anymore... What type of construction? Sewn? Crochet? Knit? I've seen free patterns for crocheted and knit cloche hat patterns. In fact, I knit a really darling cloche hat out of one of these patterns. This particular pattern is great in that you don't need a particular type of yarn. You make a sample with your yarn, then use a calculating system to determine your own pattern. The url for that hat is http://knitting.about.com/library/blmiterhat.htm If anyone wants to see a picture of my daughter's hat, I can scan it and e-mail it. -- Cecilia knitting a new paradigm in southern California pyrfectpup@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~pyrfectpup/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 16:28:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KSOHP029675 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:28:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KRvsU017080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:27:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KRuog027636; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:27:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KRqog027585 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:27:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool0620.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.178.148.110] helo=earthlink.net) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ZcaW-0001mp-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:27:52 -0700 Message-ID: <3F09D8EA.F1AD4C24@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:32:42 -0700 From: Cecilia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's References: <169.211d6451.2c3a1377@aol.com> <3F09BD15.81B70EC0@earthlink.net><3F09D71A.7D63DA6C@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cecilia wrote: > What I wrote at the top was a bit rambling. Anyway -- as noted in the passage that > should now appear in italics and underlined, you do add warps along the way. OK, so much for computer technology - What I'd had configured on my computer did not appear on the list copy. The passage referred to above is the 4th and 5th line of what I wrote. -- Cecilia knitting a new paradigm in southern California pyrfectpup@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~pyrfectpup/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 16:30:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KUHHP029684 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:30:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KTksU017265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:29:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KTjog028980; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:29:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KTQog028691 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:29:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75140369A6 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:29:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19Zcbz-0005R2-00 for ; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 16:29:23 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's In-Reply-To: References: <169.211d6451.2c3a1377@aol.com> <00af01c344a3$22ce2880$a209bbd0@bently> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:29:23 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heather wrote: > If one were weaving a toga to shape on the loom, it would be done > similarly -- you'd simply ignore warp threads that weren't part of > the shape you were trying to create. Keep in mind that these looms > would have involved passing the shuttle through the shed by hand -- > no flying shuttles! -- so you aren't slowing the process down by > doing only partial wefts. Presumably you then have to cut it off the loom and trim the remaining warps down close to the woven area. How do you then stop it from fraying? K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 16:36:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KaeHP029703 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:36:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Ka9sU018061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:36:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Ka7og004479; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:36:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Ka5og004452 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:36:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail21.ureach.com (mail21.ureach.com [172.16.2.81]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA30801 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:36:05 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-223-181.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.223.181]) by mail21.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA10837 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:36:05 -0400 Message-ID: <001f01c344c6$ce731dd0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cloche hat pattern? Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:31:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This site has a couple of cloche patterns that are $14: http://www.longago.com/hat.html Good luck! Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 4:08 PM Subject: [h-cost] Cloche hat pattern? > Hi, > Would any of you know of a nice cloche hat pattern I could buy? Or would one > of you have one and be nice enough to send me a copy (I'll pay for it, don't > worry)? > I've seen some on eBay but they always go for 30$+ US... once converted to > CDN dollars, it's not worth it anymore... > Thanks! > Audrey > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 16:37:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KbrHP029707 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:37:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Kb5sU018188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:37:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Kb5og005114; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:37:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Kb1og004965 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C16FDBE67B for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:36:55 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F09DAAE.20302@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 22:40:14 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th cent ladies cap with peals and flowers on black velvet References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just search for Frauenleben in sterreich on the internet and found this. http://www.frauen.spoe.at/body_topics_100j_eroeffnung_ega.htm I am not sure if it is the same. Here is the Schlo Kirchstetten http://www.schloss-kirchstetten.at/ Vernissage http://www.vernissageverlag.de/ Maby they know more aboud the portrait Greetings, Deredere Cassandra Greer wrote: >Whoops let me chance the heading! > > > >>Hi all! >> >>I found this cool portrait of a 16th lady with a really cool pearl and >>flower and what looks like black velvet cap. Does anyone have any idea where >>the original is etc? >> >>http://homepage.mac.com/cassandragreer/question.html >> >>Thanks! >> >>Cass :) >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 16:43:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Kh4HP029727 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:43:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KgbsU018746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:42:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Kgaog008862; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:42:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from SRVNODE7.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h67KgUog008714 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:42:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by SRVNODE7.cho.org; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:42:22 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:45:34 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cloche hat pattern? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, For cloche patterns you could try Vintage Pattern Lending Library. Go to: http://www.vpll.org/ and find "Hats, All Eras" on the contents list on the left. They have several different cloche patterns. I didn't look at them because I'm not certain what exactly you're looking for. You can buy the patterns or borrow them if you're a member of the library. Alternately, a straw or felt cloche is easy to make from an old hat or a 'hood', a hat blank, lacking a better definition. You use water, heat and steam and form the hat to a mold, even a styrofoam head, to make what you want. It's easier than you can possibly imagine. Then comes the fun - decoration! I remeber reading something in a magazine from the 20's where the writer says something to the effect of, "No lady would ever show her eyebrows in a cloche," so remember to pull the hat way down in the front. LynnD >Hi, >Would any of you know of a nice cloche hat pattern I could buy? Or >would one of you have one and be nice enough to send me a copy (I'll >pay for it, don't worry)? >I've seen some on eBay but they always go for 30$+ US... once >converted to CDN dollars, it's not worth it anymore... >Thanks! >Audrey > >_________________________________________________________________ >STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 16:43:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KhGHP029730 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:43:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KgksU018771 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:42:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Kgkog008957; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:42:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Kggog008912 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:42:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030707204241.MQXJ4771.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:42:41 +0100 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030707213931.018c7b58@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 21:42:36 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII In-Reply-To: <52162FC0-B0B6-11D7-90CE-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> References: <000401c344be$84608960$55c98693@creighton.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-71E65948; boundary="=======2113473A=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======2113473A======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-71E65948; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 13:05 07/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: >For the best "Six Wives" history ever, I suggest reading Alison Weir's >"The Six Wives of Henry VIII". It's her best historical biography she's >written, no doubt because she felt some personal connection to each of the >wives. I'm reading her newest book "Mary Queen of Scots and the Murder of >Lord Darnley" and it's slower going than "Six Wives", but loaded with >research. I think that tends to be her weakness, actually... She's so >well researched that getting all that information into one book is >difficult without it being on the dry side. She made a lot of mistakes in her book on the Princes in the Tower. She's not well regarded over here. But I haven't read the Henry VIII book, I stopped after the Princes one. The reviews have been poor for the Mary Queen of Scots one. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======2113473A======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======2113473A=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 16:43:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KhgHP029733 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:43:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KhJsU018844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:43:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KhIog009340; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:43:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KhFog009292 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:43:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool0620.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.178.148.110] helo=earthlink.net) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ZcpO-0003Nr-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:43:15 -0700 Message-ID: <3F09DC85.B3011810@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:48:05 -0700 From: Cecilia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's References: <169.211d6451.2c3a1377@aol.com><3F09BD15.81B70EC0@earthlink.net> <008401c344c5$dd923ae0$240fbbd0@bently> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO David wrote: > > This technique works well with rugs that are made of relatively thick warp > and weft > > yarns. To change it so that a semi-circle were the end result, would not > be that > > difficult. What I see problematic, is to get a fabric that would work as a > toga, > > much thinner yarns would be used and the process would be very time > consuming - as > > compared to a "straight" fabric loom that had a rigid heddle or two > heddles. > > > I can't see how this technique would give an appropriate drape for a toga. Not knowing how a toga should drape, I can only observe that resulting fabric would be some type of hybrid between material cut on the grain and material cut on the bias. Since the only samples that I've seen of this are rugs, and since rugs don't do a whole lot of draping , I don't have real experience in how it would drape. -- Cecilia knitting a new paradigm in southern California pyrfectpup@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~pyrfectpup/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 16:53:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67KrSHP029767 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:53:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Kr2sU019973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:53:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Kr0og018138; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:53:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f21.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Kqvog018006 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:52:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:52:52 -0700 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:52:51 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:52:51 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jul 2003 20:52:52.0165 (UTC) FILETIME=[BB849750:01C344C9] Subject: [h-cost] Lady Jane X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've found the thread of corsets extremely interesting and really love the idea of a modern corset. If anyone puts anytime into this, I'd love to read about your results. Well I decided to rent Lady Jane over the long holiday weekend. I was really struck by how slouchy HCB was! I don't understand how she could have such poor posture. Was she not wearing a corset? Was it just way too loose? I could sometimes see boning under the blue bodice she had one for most of the movie. I was trying to figure out if the bodice was boned or if she had a corset on... Either way, there were some very beautiful dresses to be seen and I also really enjoyed looking at the men's clothing. I find that I often overlook men's clothing, unintentionally. I did notice the bodice height and have new plans to make a new corset pattern and corset so that I can experiment with this neckline. I really like it better then the Ren Faire Wench types. I just made a really tough decision... I have decided to take a leave of absence from school. I am newly pregnant and so exhausted that I can't get energy up to do my homework, let alone sit in class until 10pm every night after working a full day. I'm really trying to be careful as to avoid miscarriage (again). So now that I've come to grips with this, I am starting to feel like I will actually get some personal sewing done again! I'm kind of excited about that. Maybe this won't be the best time to revamp my corset pattern, but I can definitely give it some serious thought! Anyway, great thread. And as always... I LOVE THIS LIST!!!!! :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 17:12:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LClHP029834 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:12:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LCBsU022337 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:12:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LC86X004789; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:12:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LC46X004652 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:12:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net15sp28.directcon.net [209.79.209.28] (may be forged)) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h67LCwk03406; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:12:59 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030707141347.010dfec0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 14:13:47 -0700 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady Jane In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Well I decided to rent Lady Jane over the long holiday weekend. I was >really struck by how slouchy HCB was! I don't understand how she could have >such poor posture. She does have terrible posture, but it was particularly bad in this movie. I think she was doing it intentionally as part of her character, but it sure was annoying. I kept wanting to yell, "Get you chin off your chest!". Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 17:21:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LLXHP029861 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:21:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LL0sU023288 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:21:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LKw6X010899; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:20:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LKu6X010787 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:20:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.73.32d0dc73 (4116) for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:20:45 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <73.32d0dc73.2c3b3e2c@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:20:44 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady Jane To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/7/03 5:16:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, margo@margospatterns.com writes: > She does have terrible posture, but it was particularly bad in this movie. > I think she was doing it intentionally as part of her character, but it > sure was annoying. I kept wanting to yell, "Get you chin off your chest!". And I have this sudden image of Margo sitting in front of the TV in full Tudor or Elizabethan regalia shouting "Get your chin off your chest!" while sewing embellishment bits onto a forepart, and then prodding the needle at the TV threateningly! Christine Having way too much fun thinking of that! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 17:30:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LU1HP029886 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:30:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LTYsU024218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:29:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LTV6X017008; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:29:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5-svc.business.ntl.com (mta5-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LTM6X016871 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:29:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Imedia5043 ([80.1.29.36]) by mta5-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20030707212911.WOJX14037.mta5-svc.business.ntl.com@Imedia5043> for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:29:11 +0100 Message-ID: <00b901c344ce$c3159870$37140150@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Washing linen Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:28:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO actually she's a very overworked and underpaid costume maker who is always having pistols pointed at her LOL Dawn Ages Of Elegance makers of Historical reproduction Clothing, Uniforms and Bridalwear http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 > > > >? I thought Dawn was a dishwashing detergent. > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 17:40:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LdxHP029907 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:39:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LdZsU025406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:39:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LdY6X024869; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:39:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LdS6X024800 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:39:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be30.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.48]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A80F2480008 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:39:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002901c344d0$873b4280$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:41:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] feeling ignernt X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ladies, and gents.............. Pheeeewwwwwwwwwww. I am so sorry about the stupid things i said and the poor language i used the other day. The topic was so frisky, and i was tired after a long day at work, and i was carried away about the frisky language. As a matter of fact i had such a huge laugh that i actually poored myself an xxxxl large gin, with no tonic and no ice. and i got carried away. Please ladies and please gents. I hope you will forget the stupid things i said...............(please) Bjarne who has recovered again from that large gin. Anyway it was ok to do, because i have a holliday now, and i finished the dress..................... Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 17:47:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Ll5HP029926 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:47:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LkYsU026097 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:46:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LkX6X029341; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:46:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LkS6X029267 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:46:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be30.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.48]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D765B47FFF9 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:46:27 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003401c344d1$82b046b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <146.14ca5528.2c376f0e@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] epiphany Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:48:32 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I love making ruffs, I love how they look, i dont wear them, love making them love love love :-) I love making corsets, I love how they looks, I dont wear them, Love making them, love love love.. But i absolutely hate binding the tabs with bias tape absolutely hate hate hate.................. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 2:00 AM Subject: [h-cost] epiphany > I hate making ruffs. I love how they look, I like wearin' 'em. hate making > them. Hate. Hate. Hate. > > Thank you. > > That is all. > > -Sarra Wryght > Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html > Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 17:47:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LlhHP029930 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:47:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LlDsU026207 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:47:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LlB6X029780; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:47:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Ll86X029732 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:47:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19ZdpD-000CJg-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 22:47:07 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:49:56 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] searching for pictures of sleeves References: <006301c34488$9f0f31c0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I really hope someone finds it! I find it interesting, it looks like a higher cap than most of a similar period, many of them look flat to the head but this is more vertical. And I love the way her hair is rolled with the flowers at the front just peeking over. Jean Cassandra Greer wrote >Hi all! > >I found this cool portrait of a 16th lady with a really cool pearl and >flower and what looks like black velvet cap. Does anyone have any idea where >the original is etc? > >http://homepage.mac.com/cassandragreer/question.html > >Thanks! > >Cass :) > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 17:48:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LmKHP029938 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:48:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LlssU026295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:47:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Lls6X000403; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:47:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h67Lln6X000303 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:47:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWkmgwljUElloJMxtUmwOg9L/81wX4UvWnQ==">; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 14:47:35 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H4H2S5YY; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 14:47:35 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:49:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] feeling ignernt Message-ID: <20030707.174945.-171623.1.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-4 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gosh, I wish I had saved you message now to see what you are apologizing for. I don't remember anything bad enough to worry about. We all love you Bjarne - gin or no gin. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 17:49:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Ln5HP029941 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:49:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LmasU026380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:48:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LmZ6X000872; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:48:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LmU6X000797 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:48:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be30.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.48]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8A22647FFD5 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:48:29 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003b01c344d1$cb5e62c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001001c3425d$0f2c5060$6601a8c0@SG01> <005401c3425e$f4d1e020$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:50:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Red head here!!!!!!!!! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Kocian" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 7:16 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Feelin' ignernt > Bjarne wrote, > >May i take up another poll? > >In the sum,mertime? > > > >Do you prefer cut or uncut? > > This being a costume list, I assume Bjarne must be asking about > clothing cut & sewn to fit, versus uncut fabric that's draped about > the body. Like a quick and dirty toga, sari, kilt, etc. Right? For > summer, yes, a draped, nonrestricting garment can be more comfortable. > > -Carol > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 17:50:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LotHP029952 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:50:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LoLsU026613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:50:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LoK6X002515; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:50:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bluejay.mail.pas.earthlink.net (bluejay.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.218]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LnP6X001701 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:49:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-15-113.o1.jps.net ([216.119.15.113] helo=w7m1l6) by bluejay.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ZdrO-0001sd-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 14:49:22 -0700 Message-ID: <005801c344d1$8ad25680$710f77d8@w7m1l6> From: "Stephen Bergdahl" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002901c344d0$873b4280$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] feeling ignernt Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:48:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-ELNK-Trace: 08dba192340bde6e1a6ab3b9b70940f894f5150ab1c16ac027907a4ca0ac1adf5907384e6f5f88cf693077083a6f95a5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Don't worry Bjarne I for one was not offended in anyway. You always hear about the locker room comments of men. Well women at a stitch & bitch can be just as bad. Trust me I been to both. Stephen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 2:41 PM Subject: [h-cost] feeling ignernt > Ladies, and gents.............. > Pheeeewwwwwwwwwww. > I am so sorry about the stupid things i said and the poor language i used > the other day. > The topic was so frisky, and i was tired after a long day at work, and i was > carried away about the frisky language. > As a matter of fact i had such a huge laugh that i actually poored myself an > xxxxl large gin, with no tonic and no ice. and i got carried away. > Please ladies and please gents. I hope you will forget the stupid things i > said...............(please) > Bjarne who has recovered again from that large gin. > Anyway it was ok to do, because i have a holliday now, and i finished the > dress..................... > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 17:58:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67LwFHP029972 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:58:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Lt0sY027106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:57:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Lnu6X002164; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:49:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Lml6X000984 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:48:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.109.2583cef7 (4184) for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:48:35 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <109.2583cef7.2c3b44b3@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:48:35 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10634 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/7/2003 4:30:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, skud@infotrope.net writes: > Presumably you then have to cut it off the loom and trim the remaining > warps down close to the woven area. How do you then stop it from > fraying? > There's nothing to stop you from hemming it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 18:18:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67MIoHP030003 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:18:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67MIHsU029637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:18:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67MIE85021389; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:18:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta06ps.bigpond.com (mta06ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.138]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67MI685021230 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:18:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clarke ([144.135.25.78]) by mta06ps.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta06ps May 23 2002 23:53:28) with SMTP id HHODXJ00.HNY for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:17:43 +1000 Received: from 144.139.221.46 ([144.139.221.46]) by psmam04.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2c 92/15796868); 08 Jul 2003 08:17:41 Message-ID: <00a601c344d5$9ecb9210$2edd8b90@clarke> From: "Claire Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" References: <109.2583cef7.2c3b44b3@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:17:51 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's > In a message dated 7/7/2003 4:30:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, > skud@infotrope.net writes: > > > > Presumably you then have to cut it off the loom and trim the remaining > > warps down close to the woven area. How do you then stop it from > > fraying? > > > > There's nothing to stop you from hemming it. > _______________________________________________ > Or weaving the trim into the cut edge. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 18:22:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67MMpHP030014 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:22:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67MMRsU000304 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:22:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67MMR85024265; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:22:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67MMM85024193 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:22:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be30.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.48]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 093B947FF71 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:22:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <006c01c344d6$87ec5b50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:24:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] Caraco jacket X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Anyway, ladies, gents. i would be very pleased to have some feed back of a question 18th century. I plan to make a lady a Caraco Jacket and a skirt. I have made the corset to fit, very nice with horisontal bones over the bust to make extra shape. What are the rules for a Caraco Jacket. Should this follow the seams cf. side cb. or could a Caraco Jacket have a stomacher front, laced and a gathered frill round the waistline to the center back? Or is it like this example Janet Arnold shows in Patterns of Fashion where there are pleats in the side and center back? Is it possible to use a little fantasy to make a Caraco Jacket my way? Feed back much apreciated! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 18:36:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67MaQHP030036 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:36:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67MV1sU001147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67MV085029857; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:31:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67MUs85029786 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:30:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A49B60034C; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 17:30:51 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] feeling ignernt Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:30:50 -0500 Message-ID: <003301c344d7$6bfee470$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <002901c344d0$873b4280$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Said what? I don't recall being offended... Betsy (Might be time for a lie-down, though) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 4:42 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] feeling ignernt Ladies, and gents.............. Pheeeewwwwwwwwwww. I am so sorry about the stupid things i said and the poor language i used the other day. The topic was so frisky, and i was tired after a long day at work, and i was carried away about the frisky language. As a matter of fact i had such a huge laugh that i actually poored myself an xxxxl large gin, with no tonic and no ice. and i got carried away. Please ladies and please gents. I hope you will forget the stupid things i said...............(please) Bjarne who has recovered again from that large gin. Anyway it was ok to do, because i have a holliday now, and i finished the dress..................... Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 18:43:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67MhqHP030063 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:43:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67MhRsU002635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:43:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Mh985008449; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:43:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law8-oe16.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67Mgc85007804 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:42:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:42:32 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by law8-oe16.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 22:42:32 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cloche hat pattern? Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:43:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jul 2003 22:42:32.0485 (UTC) FILETIME=[0DB1BD50:01C344D9] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh gosh... this is an amazing place... Wow... I don't even want to start looking through that, I'll want to buy the whole collection! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Downward" > Hi, > For cloche patterns you could try Vintage Pattern Lending Library. Go to: > > http://www.vpll.org/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 18:53:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67MrdHP030093 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:53:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67MrCsU004310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:53:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67MrB85016931; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:53:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from SRVNODE7.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h67Mr785016878 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:53:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by SRVNODE7.cho.org; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 15:52:52 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:56:04 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cloche hat pattern? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO They're quick and much cheaper if you're a member. Memberships are cheap and if you rent enough patterns per year you save enough for next year's membership. You can either buy the pattern outright or borrow the pattern, make your own copy and send it back, pricing is listed for each. Lynn Satisfied customer, although they're in Oakland CA where I live. >Oh gosh... this is an amazing place... Wow... >I don't even want to start looking through that, I'll want to buy the whole >collection! > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Lynn Downward" > >> Hi, >> For cloche patterns you could try Vintage Pattern Lending Library. Go to: >> >> http://www.vpll.org/ >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 19:00:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67N0dHP030109 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:00:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67N07sU005649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:00:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67N06Nm022421; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:00:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67N02Nm022383 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:00:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-026scfairp0011.dialsprint.net ([63.176.16.11] helo=faucet.net) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Zexl-0001mA-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 16:00:02 -0700 Message-ID: <3F0A090E.2040502@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:58:06 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] searching for pictures of sleeves References: <3F088F61.5080505@kabelfoon.nl> <006301c34488$9f0f31c0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> <002001c34490$696a2810$44a176cb@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO michaela wrote: > No, it probably is sewn on given the sheer number of gold on white striped > sleeves I've come across in recent searches of late 16thC clothing. They all > seem to have that vertical line down the cf of the sleeve too. The vertical line is trim sewn on to hide the seam down the front of the sleeve (it's a two-piece sleeve with seams down the front and back). It's likely that there's trim hiding the seam in the back as well. Putting trim on to hide seams is quite common--you can often see it on shoulder seams as well. Once you start looking for it, you'll see it all over the place in portraits. There are a number of examples of ladies wearing this style of sleeve in Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd. Cheers, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 19:05:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67N5LHP030123 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:05:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67N4xsU006601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:04:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67N4wNm026000; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:04:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h67N4uNm025983 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:04:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-122-230-26.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@67.122.230.26 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jul 2003 23:04:56 -0000 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:04:50 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030707213931.018c7b58@pop.ntlworld.com> Message-Id: <6996512B-B0CF-11D7-90CE-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > She made a lot of mistakes in her book on the Princes in the Tower. > She's not well regarded over here. But I haven't read the Henry VIII > book, I stopped after the Princes one. The reviews have been poor for > the Mary Queen of Scots one. I didn't care for the "Princes in the Tower" to be honest. Her shorter books, like "Princes", and "The Children of Henry VIII" don't make for satisfactory reading, honestly, as they're too short and too pat for the actual history involved. My main beef with both those books was that it seemed as though she was trying to find information that didn't exist about a really vague topic to begin with. And "War of the Roses" was absolutely painful to read! I couldn't finish it because it just dragged on and on... But then, I'm not emotionally invested in that particular era, so that could have something to do with it. But "Eleanor of Aquitaine" and "The Six Wives of Henry VIII" are both quite thorough, interesting, well written books. She really hit her stride with "Six Wives" and I keep expecting that same level of workmanship with her more recent books, but they're still falling short of that. "The Murder of Lord Darnley" is good, though. I've only made it half way through, as it is slow reading, but it's more accurate in the depiction of Mary than any other book I've read on the subject (which are either highly flattering, or highly critical. This one is neither. It's just Mary, damned if she did and damned if she didn't). Most historical biographers who tackle female subjects have a horrible propensity towards either deifying them as saints, or trouncing them as whores. I can't stand Starkey because of his way of turning everything into some titillating piece of juicy gossip. Ugh. It just irritates me. But Weir got it right with "Six Wives" as far as I'm concerned. None of those women were stupid, and none of them were saints, either. Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 19:07:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67N7vHP030134 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:07:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67N7VsU007109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:07:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67N7UNm027626; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:07:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67N7KNm027491 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:07:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h67N7KOq010024 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:07:20 -0400 Message-Id: <200307072307.h67N7KOq010024@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:03:46 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com said: > There's nothing to stop you from hemming it. But then why bother weaving it as an oval - why not just cut & hem to shape? I handwove fabric for some Roman cloaks, and we decided to cut them as ovals with the back a bit longer than the front. The sides were shorter for better access for arms & hands. We made the hoods out of the leftover fabric. In one area, I butted the fulled wool and stitched it together, than fulled it a bit more to hide the stitches. It worked! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 19:08:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67N8VHP030139 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:08:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67N88sU007248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:08:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67N88Nm028036; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:08:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40303.mail.yahoo.com (web40303.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h67N7ZNm027623 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:07:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030707230729.71108.qmail@web40303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.75.115.218] by web40303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 16:07:29 PDT Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:07:29 -0700 (PDT) From: sekhmet To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] dress form help! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi everyone, I've been lurking for a couple months, really enjoying the various discussions. I'm hoping someone can help me with my dress form. I've got many years of experience sewing modern clothes from flat patterns, but I've never done any draping or used a dress form. I need to make a Regency costume for September, and I'm starting with the corset. A friend very kindly gave me her old dress form so I don't have to try and fit a back lacing corset on myself! She is so skinny that she just made the form as small as possible. I need expand the panels for it to fit me. It's an old Tru-Shape Singer with slotted metal slides and butterfly nuts inside to adjust the pieces up/down and in/out. The problem is that as soon as I get one measurement set, moving another panel alters it. How should I start? I originally set the bust, waist and hip horizontal measurements and then tried to get the vertical measurements. Since that didn't work, I'm wondering if I should work top to bottom, doing both vertical and horizontal measurements on the way, or just give up and bring the panels in tight the way they were and padding it until it matches me. Or, any other suggestions? I can't afford to buy a better dress form right now and none of my friends have the patience or interest to hang around to lace me while I sew and fit and sew and fit on myself. No family within 2000 miles. Last boyfriend is now ex-. So I really need this dress form to work. Any suggestions gratefully received. Thanks! Irene __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 19:23:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67NNUHP030200 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:23:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67NN1sU009620 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67NN0Nm007520; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67NMuNm007441 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:22:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.5f.3c3aa625 (4426) for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:22:45 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <5f.3c3aa625.2c3b5ac4@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:22:44 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/7/2003 1:44:59 PM Central Standard Time, ailith@neo.rr.com writes: > On July 16 and 23, PBS will be airing a 2 part documentary on The Six Wives > of Henry VIII from the wives' points of view. Is this the one that was > broadcast a while back in the UK? Dr. David Starkey is the host. > Hot damn! Hopefully, my lame-o local PBS station won't decide to air a telethon or the national Bingo Finals or something.... -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 19:30:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67NUuHP030249 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:30:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67NUTsU010797 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:30:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67NUSNm012181; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:30:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67NUPNm012152 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:30:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be30.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.48]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7BFD947FEF3 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 01:30:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00ac01c344e0$0d9aaeb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030707230729.71108.qmail@web40303.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress form help! Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 01:32:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Irene. Dont dispare............... You have plenty of time. May i ask you how yourself is shaped? Are you skinny two? or how are you shaped? In most cases it is not nescessary to have a corset for a regency dress. You could use a push up bra............... that would be very nice. And then you just have to meassure your bust, and underbust and the meassure to the ground to make such a Regency Dress. That would be very nice! I am sorry i could not help you otherwise, but i dont think i understood your meening. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "sekhmet" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 1:07 AM Subject: [h-cost] dress form help! > Hi everyone, I've been lurking for a couple months, > really enjoying the various discussions. I'm hoping > someone can help me with my dress form. > > I've got many years of experience sewing modern > clothes from flat patterns, but I've never done any > draping or used a dress form. I need to make a Regency > costume for September, and I'm starting with the > corset. A friend very kindly gave me her old dress > form so I don't have to try and fit a back lacing > corset on myself! > > She is so skinny that she just made the form as small > as possible. I need expand the panels for it to fit > me. It's an old Tru-Shape Singer with slotted metal > slides and butterfly nuts inside to adjust the pieces > up/down and in/out. > > The problem is that as soon as I get one measurement > set, moving another panel alters it. How should I > start? I originally set the bust, waist and hip > horizontal measurements and then tried to get the > vertical measurements. Since that didn't work, I'm > wondering if I should work top to bottom, doing both > vertical and horizontal measurements on the way, or > just give up and bring the panels in tight the way > they were and padding it until it matches me. Or, any > other suggestions? > > I can't afford to buy a better dress form right now > and none of my friends have the patience or interest > to hang around to lace me while I sew and fit and sew > and fit on myself. No family within 2000 miles. Last > boyfriend is now ex-. So I really need this dress form > to work. > > Any suggestions gratefully received. > > Thanks! Irene > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 19:55:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67NtDHP030786 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:55:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67NsksU014808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:54:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67NsjNm026252; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:54:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h67NshNm026219 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:54:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h67NsgOq027154 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:54:42 -0400 Message-Id: <200307072354.h67NsgOq027154@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:51:08 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress form help! From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Don't despair! First of all, you don't fit a corset to yourself, it moves things around to bring you to the right shape. To check how it works, you will need to try it on. The problem is usually you don't see the problem until it's boned and nearly finished! If a similar-sized friend has one, it's great if you can try it on and then use the same pattern & know how to alter it. Next, those sliding panel dress forms are a pain! For Regency, however, you just need the correct shoulders, bust, underbust, and height. Ignore the waist & hips. I worked in a costume shop with the Wolf forms, which are not adjustable. We would pick the closest size and then pad it to the actors shape. This is a normal and legitimate approach. We don't use the forms for actual fitting, but to check the way something hangs, position trims, let a skirt hang before hemming, etc. It's not impossible to fit yourself, only slow & tedious. I find I have to re-pin several times until I get it, but I get it. A rear-view mirror is necessary. Have you checked the list to see if there is someone else nearby? Even a non-historic seamstress can be helpful for fitting. Or simply a friend who can follow instructions. One final thing I've heard about Regency gowns (and learned it on this list) - if your stomach pooches at all, don't attach the skirt at your ribcage. Attach it to the bodice a little ways out under the bust. This clears your stomach and avoids the pregnant look. -Carol sekhmet said: > The problem is that as soon as I get one measurement > set, moving another panel alters it. How should I > start? I originally set the bust, waist and hip > horizontal measurements and then tried to get the > vertical measurements. Since that didn't work, I'm > wondering if I should work top to bottom, doing both > vertical and horizontal measurements on the way, or > just give up and bring the panels in tight the way > they were and padding it until it matches me. Or, any > other suggestions? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 20:07:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68079HP030904 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:07:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6806csU016577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:06:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6806bWO002934; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:06:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6806YWO002873 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:06:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OkIp4tgKsd5+URZyGSfxUWw=">; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 17:05:33 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H4JAPRXM; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 17:05:33 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:43:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII Message-ID: <20030707.170443.1844.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-20 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There's an accompanying book as well. Dry, dull, and riddled with "my opinion." How anyone could make this period of history dull is beyond me. :/ Arlys, mundanely an MA in History > No, it was on Channel 5 last year. David Starkey is not my favourite > academic, and the series was a great disappointment to me. Very > simplistic, > repeating some of the old myths that have been discarded by other > scholars. > Definitely the old view. > > > Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT > Award winning Historical Romance author. > The Richard and Rose books from > Novelbooks Inc. > YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE > VANESSA from Awe-Struck books > http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 20:14:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680EEHP031198 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:14:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680DhsU017525 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:13:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680DhWO006823; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:13:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680DeWO006722 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:13:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.140.15085fac (4446) for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:13:30 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <140.15085fac.2c3b66aa@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:13:30 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10634 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/7/2003 7:07:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, aquazoo@patriot.net writes: > There's nothing to stop you from hemming it. > > But then why bother weaving it as an oval - why not just cut & hem to > shape? > > I dunno? You didn't ask that. :-P _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 20:27:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680RlHP031222 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:27:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680RLsU018543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:27:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680RKWO013281; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:27:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h680RIWO013264 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:27:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 18762 invoked by uid 1005); 8 Jul 2003 00:27:02 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.127181 secs); 08 Jul 2003 00:27:02 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.127181 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 8 Jul 2003 00:27:02 -0000 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:27:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian portraits 1550-1570 In-Reply-To: <3F05ECBC.1020602@faucet.net> Message-ID: <20030707202627.R68138-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I'm just impressed I found this book before you did! I was > joking with someone that you could charge people tons of money for a > weekend with free access to your library, a scanner, and a CD burner. Hm, idea... though my husband is convinced that, if I post lists of my books on the internet, one night a crazed costuming fiend is going to crawl through the sewing room window and make off with them all... Drea > > (sing with me) I love books, books love me, we're a happy family... > > Melanie Schuessler > http://www.faucet.net/costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 20:36:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680a3HP031241 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:36:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680ZZsU019247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:35:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680ZXWO017432; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:35:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680ZUWO017350 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:35:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m151.in-tch.com [216.166.191.151]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h680GNL28263 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:16:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F0A1239.DEC79992@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:37:13 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS / KWAR Announcement References: <001801c34487$7795de10$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO *snort* I have this image of a list-only competition, involving the fanciest embroidered "H" at KWCS.... --sue "just call me Hester" clemenger Beteena Paradise wrote: > > Are we going to wear little "h"s so we know each other? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marc Carlson" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 2:35 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS / KWAR Announcement > > > >From: Robin Netherton > > >I'll be there (obviously!). Anyone else? I'd love to meet some people > from > > >the list... > > > > Rumor has it I'm supposed to attend. > > > > Marc > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 20:37:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680bwHP031246 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:37:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680bXsU019390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:37:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680bWWO018407; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:37:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680bUWO018346 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:37:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m151.in-tch.com [216.166.191.151]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h680IML29038 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:18:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F0A12B1.70B20D3C@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:39:13 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady Jane References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I seem to recall some distinct slouching in "Elizabeth," too. I think my favorite outfits in "Lady Jane" were the hunting outfits her parents wore.... Speaking of bodice heights, I was indulging in my copy of "Dangerous Beauty" and noticed in one scene, at least, that the mother's bodice was quite modest (no TOAP), while the daughter's was not (definite TOAP). Next time I watch the movie, I'll see if it's a trend. Certainly not something I noticed in previous watchings..... Best of luck, Jessica, with this new pregnancy. I think it's very, very smart to figure out your limits and stick to them! --sue jessica stier wrote: > > I've found the thread of corsets extremely interesting and really love the > idea of a modern corset. If anyone puts anytime into this, I'd love to read > about your results. > > Well I decided to rent Lady Jane over the long holiday weekend. I was > really struck by how slouchy HCB was! I don't understand how she could have > such poor posture. Was she not wearing a corset? Was it just way too > loose? I could sometimes see boning under the blue bodice she had one for > most of the movie. I was trying to figure out if the bodice was boned or if > she had a corset on... > > Either way, there were some very beautiful dresses to be seen and I also > really enjoyed looking at the men's clothing. I find that I often overlook > men's clothing, unintentionally. > > I did notice the bodice height and have new plans to make a new corset > pattern and corset so that I can experiment with this neckline. I really > like it better then the Ren Faire Wench types. > > I just made a really tough decision... I have decided to take a leave of > absence from school. I am newly pregnant and so exhausted that I can't get > energy up to do my homework, let alone sit in class until 10pm every night > after working a full day. I'm really trying to be careful as to avoid > miscarriage (again). So now that I've come to grips with this, I am > starting to feel like I will actually get some personal sewing done again! > I'm kind of excited about that. Maybe this won't be the best time to revamp > my corset pattern, but I can definitely give it some serious thought! > > Anyway, great thread. And as always... I LOVE THIS LIST!!!!! > > :) jessica > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 20:48:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680m8HP031262 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:48:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680lisU020261 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:47:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680lhWO023681; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:47:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680lfWO023634 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:47:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1d4.d7c3eae (4426) for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:47:32 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <1d4.d7c3eae.2c3b6ea4@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:47:32 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian portraits 1550-1570 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/7/2003 7:27:48 PM Central Standard Time, drea@nospam writes: > though my husband is convinced that, if I post lists of my books on the > internet, one night a crazed costuming fiend is going to crawl through the > sewing room window and make off with them all... > Drat! My feindish plot revealed! Curses! -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 20:49:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680nuHP031266 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:49:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680nYsU020422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:49:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680nXWO024560; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:49:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680nTWO024482 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:49:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m151.in-tch.com [216.166.191.151]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h680UML03674 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:30:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F0A1581.ACF497DF@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:51:13 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] epiphany References: <146.14ca5528.2c376f0e@aol.com> <003401c344d1$82b046b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey, Bjarne...you make me a corset, and I'll deal with the bias tape! --sue Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > I love making ruffs, I love how they look, i dont wear them, love making > them love love love :-) > > I love making corsets, I love how they looks, I dont wear them, Love making > them, love love love.. > > But i absolutely hate binding the tabs with bias tape absolutely hate hate > hate.................. > > Bjarne > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 2:00 AM > Subject: [h-cost] epiphany > > > I hate making ruffs. I love how they look, I like wearin' 'em. hate making > > them. Hate. Hate. Hate. > > > > Thank you. > > > > That is all. > > > > -Sarra Wryght > > Elizabethan Dress Journals: > http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html > > Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 20:56:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680ugHP031276 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:56:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680uHsU021006 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:56:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680uFEd027403; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:56:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h680uBEd027351 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:56:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be30.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.48]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A071747FEC2 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 02:56:10 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00d101c344ec$0d781510$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <146.14ca5528.2c376f0e@aol.com><003401c344d1$82b046b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3F0A1581.ACF497DF@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] epiphany Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 02:58:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok Sue. What do i get in stead? What kind of Corset do you want? 17th. 18th 19th? That is a deal if i get something back! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 2:51 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] epiphany > Hey, Bjarne...you make me a corset, and I'll deal with the bias tape! > > --sue > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > > I love making ruffs, I love how they look, i dont wear them, love making > > them love love love :-) > > > > I love making corsets, I love how they looks, I dont wear them, Love making > > them, love love love.. > > > > But i absolutely hate binding the tabs with bias tape absolutely hate hate > > hate.................. > > > > Bjarne > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 2:00 AM > > Subject: [h-cost] epiphany > > > > > I hate making ruffs. I love how they look, I like wearin' 'em. hate making > > > them. Hate. Hate. Hate. > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > That is all. > > > > > > -Sarra Wryght > > > Elizabethan Dress Journals: > > http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html > > > Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 21:04:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6814HHP031285 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:04:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6813osU021752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:03:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6813nEd001868; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:03:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6813lEd001849 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:03:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail20.ureach.com (mail20.ureach.com [172.16.2.80]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA22763 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:03:47 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-223-181.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.223.181]) by mail20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA22759 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:03:47 -0400 Message-ID: <000801c344ec$332a80e0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307072354.h67NsgOq027154@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress form help! Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:59:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 7:51 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress form help! [snip] > One final thing I've heard about Regency gowns (and learned it on this > list) - if your stomach pooches at all, don't attach the skirt at your ribcage. > Attach it to the bodice a little ways out under the bust. This clears your > stomach and avoids the pregnant look. > > -Carol Yes, when I made my first Regency gown, I did the skirt gathered equally all the way around and hated it. I had a much flatter stomach then too! I ended up doing it over with the front totally flat and the pleating or gathering (I have used both and prefer more of a pleated look) on the back. It gave it a much cleaner line and looked more like the images I have seen. It was much more flattering too! Teena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 21:13:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h681DcHP031303 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:13:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h681DDsU022360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:13:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h681DBEd005887; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:13:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h681D9Ed005860 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:13:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be30.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.48]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 46F0B47FEB9 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 03:13:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <010401c344ee$6ce30b70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 03:15:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] test X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 21:21:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h681LNHP031321 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:21:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h681KwsU022897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:20:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h681KvEd009659; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:20:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h681KtEd009641 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:20:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip12.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.12]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED2D76AE1A for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:20:53 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:20:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady Jane Message-ID: <3F09B9F7.5716.B821C29@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Well I decided to rent Lady Jane over the long holiday weekend. I was > really struck by how slouchy HCB was! I don't understand how she > could have such poor posture. Was she not wearing a corset? Was it > just way too loose? I could sometimes see boning under the blue > bodice she had one for most of the movie. I was trying to figure out > if the bodice was boned or if she had a corset on... She was wearing a corset and it fit very badly. That's why the bodice (especially when she was slouching) kept pushing up into armpits in what had to be an uncomfortable way. (The length of the corset was too long for one thing.) It wasn't because it was too loose (although she may have asked them to make it "looser" to be more comfortable, but if the corset length had been less, it would have probably been comfortable without that.) > Either way, there were some very beautiful dresses to be seen and I > also really enjoyed looking at the men's clothing. I find that I > often overlook men's clothing, unintentionally. I thought that the basic design was pretty good for a lot of it, but the fitting was the problem with many of them (especially the ones on "Jane.") Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 21:21:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h681LtHP031324 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:21:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h681LVsU022965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:21:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h681LUEd009908; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:21:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h681KvEd009650 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:20:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip12.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.12]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3A2D6AE4F for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:20:55 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:20:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII Message-ID: <3F09B9F7.9353.B821B2F@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <5.2.0.9.0.20030707202519.0192e760@pop.ntlworld.com> References: <002701c344b7$c88e2a90$773bd118@duncan> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > No, it was on Channel 5 last year. David Starkey is not my favourite > academic, and the series was a great disappointment to me. Very > simplistic, repeating some of the old myths that have been discarded > by other scholars. Definitely the old view. Interesting since most of the things I've read by him have been full of documentation from original sources instead of the usual rehash from other history books. But then if it is a companion book rather than a scholarly one (like the other books by him) he might have had editing to take out the actual meat of the book so that it would be more palatable to the masses. (The quotes which he seems to use so liberally.) Certainly his book on Elizabeth I was one of the best reads I've seen in a book of that sort in a long time. He had sources I've never seen in such a book (and that includes scholarly journals). He's also the editor of _The Inventories of Henry VIII_. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 21:25:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h681PLHP031343 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:25:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h681OwsU023342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:24:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h681OvEd011623; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:24:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h681OuEd011567 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:24:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2E6F81B2531 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:24:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <030e01c344ef$b998feb0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030707202627.R68138-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian portraits 1550-1570 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:24:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > though my husband is convinced that, if I post lists of my books on the > internet, one night a crazed costuming fiend is going to crawl through the > sewing room window and make off with them all... > > Drea > > damn! Did someone rat me out? Dianne crossing Drea's house off the to-be-raided list... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 21:42:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h681gpHP031382 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:42:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h681gNsU024570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:42:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h681gNEd019334; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:42:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h681gJEd019299 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:42:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h681gb621789 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:42:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:42:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200307080142.h681gb621789@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] modern corsets, etc X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > From: Cecilia > > One reason that I'd like to learn how to draft > patterns is to replicate the sari top that was > made for me when I was 16. A friend of my mom's > needed occasional help, and as a thank-you made me > a sari. For the top she took a few measurements > *(see below), then began to directly draw on the > sari top material with a pencil. The end result > fit wonderfully, and though I was told that it > could be worn w/o a bra, as it was made to full > that capacity, as a very modest 16 year old, I > didn't try it then. However, over the years (until > I could no longer fit into that top), I did try it > as a top and bra all in one and it was very > comfortable. There is a choli pattern available from Fat Chance Belly Dance. It's mostly instructions on _how_ to draft your measurements into the pattern. I followed their instructions and got a top that fit. I can see one mistake I made, which was making the bottom piece of the cup too short (the cup is made up of three triangular pieces). But even the first try came out okay. The two pattern versions fit A-B cups and C-D cups. I'm a DD, and it took very little effort to make the pattern fit me. http://fcbd.com/html/folkwear.html#choli >My goal is to replicate the general > idea, but without the sleeves. Instead of thin > (and often hurtful) shoulder straps, there would > be sort of tank top straps. It would also dip down > some in the front and back, but not so far > (especially in the back) that the material could > cut into my back shoulder and hurt. It would also > not end at the bottom just below the bust, which > often causes more binding and (was it on this > list) maybe problems with lymph nodes? A wider band also gives more support than a narrow one, so there's less binding and less of a feeling that all the weight is suspended from the shoulder. For the choli I made, I used a 3" band made of decorative fabric with reinforcing inside. That was probably overkill, but it made for a very comfortable top. My two suggestions on modifying the Fat Chance pattern are to use some sort of hook and eye fasteners instead of ties in the back (there's a second tie that runs across the back and keeps the shoulders from slipping, make that wider as well) and pull the armscrye up higher if you're going to make it sleeveless. [geez, now I have to go dig up that pattern. Should've thought of that one sooner] Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 22:14:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h682EjHP031444 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:14:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h682EGsU027120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:14:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h682EEkv004043; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:14:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law15-f95.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.23.95]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h682EBkv003989 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:14:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:14:06 -0700 Received: from 209.179.130.45 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 02:14:05 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.179.130.45] X-Originating-Email: [anne_fairchild@hotmail.com] From: "Anne Fairchild" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 02:14:05 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jul 2003 02:14:06.0326 (UTC) FILETIME=[9BD02960:01C344F6] Subject: [h-cost] Help on late 18th-early 19th C undergarments X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I'm delurking here in hopes that you all can help me. I need clear descriptions, and/or decent sized photos so I can see details, of both men's and women's undergarments from the period 1790 to about 1815, as well as details of mens trousers. Specifically, I need descriptions of what men wore under their shirts, vests and trousers to serve as underwear - what it was made of, how it fastened, how it was held up, etc. - and the 'fly' details of mens trousers/breeches within that time frame, and how they were held up. I'm interested in the same sort of details for women of the same period, but it's the men's details that I'm really finding it hard to research. Thanks very much, Anne _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 22:59:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h682xoHP031527 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:59:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h682xNsU000986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:59:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h682xLdP024171; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:59:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h682xJdP024144 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:59:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be30.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.48]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A3F3E26290F for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 04:59:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000d01c344fd$4558fba0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 05:01:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] Caraco? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello again. Now here is the outfit i would like to make for the swedish lady. U know the swedish society of Gustafs Skl prefer to dress very late 18th century. I found this fashion print. but what would you call this? And do you think i have made it right CF? With buttons closings? I want to make it in grey damask and blue underskirt. Thanks for any advises http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/is_this_a_caraco_jacket.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 23:05:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6835xHP031562 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:05:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6835asU001338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:05:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6835ZdP026750; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:05:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6835WdP026729 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:05:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be30.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.48]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 49E18262838 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 05:05:32 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001401c344fe$24557c70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help on late 18th-early 19th C undergarments Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 05:08:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Anne Fairchild I know from the book from Colonial Williamsburg that mens's underwear trousers were made excactly the same way as their fall front breeches in 18th century. Except there was no fall front in the underwear. Only........... This is a waistband closing with buttons and nothing else. There is an opening from the waistline and down to the legs, no buttons and nothing Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Fairchild" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 4:14 AM Subject: [h-cost] Help on late 18th-early 19th C undergarments > Hi, > > I'm delurking here in hopes that you all can help me. I need clear > descriptions, and/or decent sized photos so I can see details, of both men's > and women's undergarments from the period 1790 to about 1815, as well as > details of mens trousers. > > Specifically, I need descriptions of what men wore under their shirts, vests > and trousers to serve as underwear - what it was made of, how it fastened, > how it was held up, etc. - and the 'fly' details of mens trousers/breeches > within that time frame, and how they were held up. > > I'm interested in the same sort of details for women of the same period, but > it's the men's details that I'm really finding it hard to research. > > Thanks very much, > > Anne > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 23:30:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h683UOHP031620 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:30:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h683TtsU003199 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:29:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h683TsdP007873; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:29:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40909.mail.yahoo.com (web40909.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h683TqdP007825 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030708032947.10729.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.167.44.28] by web40909.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:29:47 PDT Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:29:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200307072112.h67LCv6Z005424@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] testing... having trouble posting X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If I see this message come through, I'll try to respond to Robin's helpful comments about my website (for the 4th time... bad timing for technical difficulties!) Thanks, Tasha ===== http://www.cottesimple.com An exploration of European clothing and accessories from the late 14th/early 15th centuries. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 23:31:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h683V7HP031623 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:31:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h683UisU003293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:30:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h683UhdP008242; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:30:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h683UfdP008185 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:30:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.115.25ff0c3e (16781) for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:30:32 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <115.25ff0c3e.2c3b94d8@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:30:32 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Caraco? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10634 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/7/2003 10:59:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > And do you think i have made it right CF? With buttons closings? > Buttons are big....literally and fashion-wise....then so button it up the front. Lacing is also popular....with the big neckerchief tucked down into the lacing. Have you seen the film "Jefferson in Paris"? It is full of lovely gowns of this silhouette. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 23:38:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h683cGHP031633 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:38:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h683bnsU003836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:37:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h683bmdP011202; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:37:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h683bhdQ011164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:37:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h683bvsp022211 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:37:57 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h683buTh022209 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:37:56 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cloche hat pattern? Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:37:55 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <001f01c344c6$ce731dd0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> In-Reply-To: <001f01c344c6$ce731dd0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307072337.56001.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 07 July 2003 04:31 pm, Beteena Paradise wrote: > This site has a couple of cloche patterns that are $14: > > http://www.longago.com/hat.html AlterYears also carries the same DL Designs line of hat patterns. -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 7 23:49:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h683npHP031647 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:49:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h683nIsU004754 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:49:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h683nHdP016233; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:49:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40311.mail.yahoo.com (web40311.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h683nEdP016182 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:49:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030708034909.94140.qmail@web40311.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.75.98.18] by web40311.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:49:09 PDT Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:49:09 -0700 (PDT) From: sekhmet To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200307080121.h681L7Ef009722@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re:dress form help/regency X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne: >Are you skinny two? or how are you shaped? In most cases > it is not nescessary to have a corset for a regency >dress. I'm not skinny at all, I'm a US size 12. I do wear an A cup, so I could probably get by with a push up bra. But I'm going to be dancing in this dress, and I will move better if I have everything as accurate as possible from the skin out. I know it's all in my head, but if I just wear a dress I will feel like I'm "faking it", whereas if I have all the layers of clothing, I'll relax and pay more attention to my dancing than the clothes. Carol: >If a similar-sized friend has one, it's great if you > can try it on and then use the same pattern & know >how to alter it. Unfortunately everyone I've asked is either going the WonderBra route or using corsets from other eras. I'm on my own, I think. >For Regency, however, you just need the correct >shoulders, bust, underbust, and height. Ignore the >waist & hips. Ah, good point. That might be manageable with this dress form. Eventually I want to get all the measurements set up so I can use it for regular clothes, but you're right, for now I don't need everything. >It's not impossible to fit yourself, only slow & >tedious. OK, so how do you manage the lacing up the back? All I could think of was to turn the back to the front, lace it and then twist it back. >One final thing I've heard about Regency gowns (and >learned it on this list) - if your stomach pooches at >all, don't attach the skirt at your ribcage. Attach >it to the bodice a little ways out under the bust. >This clears your stomach and avoids the pregnant look. Good to know, I'll keep it in mind if I haven't lost my sanity and/or given up after the corset and chemise. I haven't yet figured out if there's more undergarments needed. Thanks for the help, Irene __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 00:14:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684EMHP031681 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:14:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684DtsU006576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:13:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684DsdB026497; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:13:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h684DpdB026477 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:13:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ppp-66-126-75-104.dialup.sndg02.pacbell.net (HELO sbcglobal.net) (lady?m?de?j%sbcglobal.net@66.126.75.104 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2003 04:13:50 -0000 Message-ID: <3F0A450B.3060208@sbcglobal.net> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 21:14:03 -0700 From: Maura Folsom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-CA; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-ca, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cote step-by-step References: <200307051800.h65I0gML001184@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >Robin Netherton wrote: > > >Maura Folsom wrote: >> http://www.cottesimple.com/ >> >> She just put it up and it is admittedly a bit rough, but so far ti >> looks great, IMO. > > > > is it public yet, or is she beta-testing? > She posted it to the Authentic-SCA list a few days ago. She didn't say anything about it being secret :) >There are some things we do very differently. > This is true of everyone, really. Thanks for going into so much detail! >(I have the nagging feeling that medieval >seamstresses were a bit more relaxed about some things that I tend to >check obsessively.) > Very likely. I do some things about patterning and sewing instinctively, since I have been sewing so long. That has its ups and downs - my approach to sewing is very hard to teach on anything but one-on-one basis. >What does concern me is that some people may look at this and see it as a >sort of a competition between "Robin's way" and "Tasha's way." That would >be, I think, an oversimplification, and I don't think it's what Tasha >would intend. > I get this sort of thing from time to time in correspondence from people who have used and liked my 'bliaut' page, where they deride the work of others (pick any of the other five or so people who have widely known and used articles) while telling me how great my theory is (which it isn't -it's being HEAVILY revised for the next update). A good example of this is Arriane de Chateau-Michel's article on the pleated skirt type of bliaut. Hers isn't the only way, and neither is mine - both are supported by period artworks and descriptions. I really wish people didn't take what amounts to a well-researched guess as gospel truth. :P >All in all, a good and comprehensive job, and one I'll probably refer >people to if they want to see visuals. Though I have a feeling I'm going >to have to start dealing with a lot of people who don't read carefully and >base their opinions of *my* work on Tasha's experiment ... > > It really helped me get a better idea of your technique, although I was able to figure out that there were differences - nothing is ever the same second hand! I'm beginning to think that all costuming research amounts to a huge game of "telephone"... >I haven't read Tasha's paper yet, though -- my limp little computer can't >handle the download. > Mine either. :/ I'm curious though! Maura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 00:26:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684QfHP031714 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:26:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684QAsU007391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:26:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684Q9dB002193; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:26:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684Q7dB002180 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:26:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-176-91.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.176.91]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D68532F924 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:26:05 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cote step-by-step Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3F0A450B.3060208@sbcglobal.net> Message-Id: <4A6E3A70-B0FC-11D7-935C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just get a file not found error when I try! > >> I haven't read Tasha's paper yet, though -- my limp little computer >> can't handle the download. >> > > Mine either. :/ I'm curious though! > > Maura > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 00:37:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684bMHP031728 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:37:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684ahsU007933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:36:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684agdB006954; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:36:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684acdB006875 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:36:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a27.in-tch.com [66.62.107.7]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h684HUL26897; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:17:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F0A4ABE.B1268249@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 22:38:22 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume , demontsegur@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] testing... having trouble posting References: <20030708032947.10729.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Tasha, I had lots of problems this weekend posting *anything* to the list--got several fatal errors. Keep trying, though.... --sue Tasha McGann wrote: > > If I see this message come through, I'll try to > respond to Robin's helpful comments about my website > (for the 4th time... bad timing for technical > difficulties!) > > Thanks, > Tasha > > ===== > http://www.cottesimple.com > An exploration of European clothing and accessories from the late 14th/early 15th centuries. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 00:39:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684dRHP031735 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:39:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684d6sU008140 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:39:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684d5dB008031; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:39:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684d3dB007984 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:39:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a27.in-tch.com [66.62.107.7]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h684JuL27777 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:19:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F0A4B50.6DB92CEC@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 22:40:48 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cote step-by-step References: <200307051800.h65I0gML001184@net.indra.com> <3F0A450B.3060208@sbcglobal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was able to download it, although it sure took a while! However, when I tried to open the document, it kept crashing. Some sort of error I don't understand. I'll try it at work tomorrow. --sue Maura Folsom wrote: > > > > >Robin Netherton wrote: > >I haven't read Tasha's paper yet, though -- my limp little computer can't > >handle the download. > > > > Mine either. :/ I'm curious though! > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 00:41:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684fEHP031742 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:41:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684ersU008230 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:40:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684eqdB008696; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:40:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684eodB008670 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:40:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a27.in-tch.com [66.62.107.7]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h684LhL28447 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:21:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F0A4BBB.9091891D@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 22:42:35 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian portraits 1550-1570 References: <20030707202627.R68138-100000@shell.siscom.net> <030e01c344ef$b998feb0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No, but if you guys distract them, the "B" team's all ready for action! --sue Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > > > though my husband is convinced that, if I post lists of my books on the > > internet, one night a crazed costuming fiend is going to crawl through the > > sewing room window and make off with them all... > > > > Drea > > > > > damn! Did someone rat me out? > > Dianne > > crossing Drea's house off the to-be-raided list... > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 00:50:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684oGHP031780 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:50:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684nmsU008776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:49:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684nldB012226; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:49:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684nhdB012191 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:49:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93DA136CB1 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:28:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19ZhH6-0005iY-00 for ; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 21:28:08 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's In-Reply-To: <109.2583cef7.2c3b44b3@aol.com> References: <109.2583cef7.2c3b44b3@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:28:08 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> Presumably you then have to cut it off the loom and trim the remaining >> warps down close to the woven area. How do you then stop it from >> fraying? > > There's nothing to stop you from hemming it. Well then, where on earth is the benefit to weaving it in the shape in the first place, if you're just going to hem it? It ends up almost indistinguishable from a garment that's been cut from normal cloth. Sure, cutting a T involves wastage of fabric, but that's what piecing is for. Sure, with the weaving-in-shape method you get a garment with a couple less seams, but it hardly seems worth the effort. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 00:52:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684qXHP031796 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:52:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684q8sU009142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:52:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684q8dB013375; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:52:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h684q4dB013333 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:52:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA31328 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:16:34 -0500 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:16:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cote step-by-step In-Reply-To: <3F0A450B.3060208@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Maura Folsom wrote: > >(I have the nagging feeling that medieval > >seamstresses were a bit more relaxed about some things that I tend to > >check obsessively.) > > > Very likely. I do some things about patterning and sewing > instinctively, since I have been sewing so long. That has its ups and > downs - my approach to sewing is very hard to teach on anything but > one-on-one basis. Heh. I could have written that paragraph myself, and have on occasion. For instance, I rarely use measurements any more (something that greatly disturbs people who want to be able to chart things out). I tend to draw sleeve caps by eye in a couple of strokes -- a friend who is an expert in German Renaissance and Elizabethan said about this, "You scare me." And I didn't realize for years that I do some of the side-seam fitting steps literally with my eyes closed, till someone I was working on pointed it out. At that point I finally gave up on the hope of writing down in some sort of coherent fashion what I was doing. The things I check obsessively are things like whether my sketched-by-eye-on-the-body cutting lines are the same on the left side as they are on the right -- I take the mockup off, flatten it out, and match up the lines before I cut them. Of course they're almost always exactly the same; one of these years I'll learn to trust my eye and skip the checking. > >All in all, a good and comprehensive job, and one I'll probably refer > >people to if they want to see visuals. Though I have a feeling I'm going > >to have to start dealing with a lot of people who don't read carefully and > >base their opinions of *my* work on Tasha's experiment ... > > > It really helped me get a better idea of your technique, although I was > able to figure out that there were differences - nothing is ever the > same second hand! I'm beginning to think that all costuming research > amounts to a huge game of "telephone"... Well, that's certainly true of some of period dressmaking too. You can see it in the incremental changes that occur over distances (usually as measured from Paris, if you're talking about Western Europe). As for giving people a better idea of my technique, perhaps Tasha would be willing to put a link to my own documents on her page. I have a collection of posts and also a workshop handout at http://www.netherton.net/robin . For instance, I discuss what Tasha calls the "quadriboob" problem in the handout, under the question "How do I get rid of that horizontal pulling across my breast, at the level of the underarm?" And I also describe the use of the neckline and shoulder cut as a crucial element in the manipulation of the bust. It would perhaps help also to make it clearer to people reading Tasha's site that the problems she found with the straight-front method aren't necessarily intrinsic drawbacks of the approach, but just a matter of experience and technique. As I said, I wouldn't want someone (reading quickly) to think they were seeing a comparison of Tasha's approach to Robin's, when what they're really seeing is Tasha's usual approach compared with her first try at a slight alteration of her usual approach, based on something she heard Robin does. Ultimately, I think it's most important to get across that Tasha and I share some strong convictions about the fundamentals of cutting approach in this period. The minimal differences between our methods reflect only how two different individuals apply that basic approach. They're still both four-panel gowns fitted on the body to manipulate the figure, without princess seams, waist seams, or separate foundation garments. As the "camps" go on 14th-century construction, Tasha and I are squarely in the same one. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 01:23:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h685NKHP031837 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 01:23:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h685MssU011106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:22:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h685MqCO026268; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:22:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web9403.mail.yahoo.com (web9403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h685MoCO026244 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:22:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030708052249.70101.qmail@web9403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.153] by web9403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 22:22:49 PDT Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:22:49 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cote step-by-step To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4A6E3A70-B0FC-11D7-935C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I get error messages as well:( Albra Heather Meadows wrote: I just get a file not found error when I try! > >> I haven't read Tasha's paper yet, though -- my limp little computer >> can't handle the download. >> > > Mine either. :/ I'm curious though! > > Maura > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 01:26:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h685QCHP031841 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 01:26:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h685PksU011250 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:25:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h685PkCO027692; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:25:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web9403.mail.yahoo.com (web9403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h685PhCO027676 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:25:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030708052543.70242.qmail@web9403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.153] by web9403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 22:25:43 PDT Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:25:43 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cote step-by-step To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F0A4B50.6DB92CEC@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's very odd--I was having the same trouble.It consistently froze up and crashed each time I tried. I finally gave up. I'm not fluent enough in 'computer- ese' to trouble shoot:( albra Sue Clemenger wrote: I was able to download it, although it sure took a while! However, when I tried to open the document, it kept crashing. Some sort of error I don't understand. I'll try it at work tomorrow. --sue Maura Folsom wrote: > > > > >Robin Netherton wrote: > >I haven't read Tasha's paper yet, though -- my limp little computer can't > >handle the download. > > > > Mine either. :/ I'm curious though! > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 02:50:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h686onHP018212 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 02:50:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h686oIsU016534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:50:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h686oEYA002361; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:50:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h686oCYA002341 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:50:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net ([67.124.117.215]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HHP005MU1NNJM@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 23:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 23:47:50 -0700 From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Washing linen In-reply-to: <00b901c344ce$c3159870$37140150@Imedia5043> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030707234506.00b34a40@pop.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:28 PM 7/7/2003 +0100, you wrote: >actually she's a very overworked and underpaid costume maker who is always >having pistols pointed at her LOL >Dawn >Ages Of Elegance makers of Historical reproduction Clothing, Uniforms and >Bridalwear > http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 > > > Wait! I resemble that remark! ;-D ...but I haven't had a pistol pointed at me in years. The other Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 03:21:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h687LKHP028946 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 03:21:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h687KcsU018175 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 01:20:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h687Kbgb014365; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 01:20:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41506.mail.yahoo.com (web41506.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h687KZgb014324 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 01:20:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030708072030.52635.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41506.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 08:20:30 BST Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:20:30 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Blow the trumpets! New L'Age d'Or web site online at long last X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear All, In case you are interested - if you are not I shall find you, wherever you may hide :-) I have finally, at long last and after painful labour of over 9 months, more or less finished the new L'Age d'Or web site. I hope you like it (if not, don't even think of telling me! *laughs*) http://www.kipar.org/index.html There will be lots of bookmarks and links out there which point to nothing, because the re-structure was truly an upheaval, so please be aware of that, in case you have bookmarked anything beyond the index page. Best wishes Nicole - who can finally look at her switched-off comp at home without feeling guilty ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 03:32:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h687WtHP001607 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 03:32:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h687WNsU018899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 01:32:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h687WMgb019163; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 01:32:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h687WJgb019120 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 01:32:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97B2B19FE89 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:32:13 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F0A7444.5020503@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 09:35:32 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blow the trumpets! New L'Age d'Or web site online at long last References: <20030708072030.52635.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The time travel gallery is fun!!!!!!! :-) :-) :-) Greetings, Deredere N Kipar wrote: >Dear All, > >In case you are interested - if you are not I shall find you, wherever you >may hide :-) I have finally, at long last and after painful labour of over 9 >months, more or less finished the new L'Age d'Or web site. I hope you like it >(if not, don't even think of telling me! *laughs*) > >http://www.kipar.org/index.html > >There will be lots of bookmarks and links out there which point to nothing, >because the re-structure was truly an upheaval, so please be aware of that, in >case you have bookmarked anything beyond the index page. > >Best wishes > >Nicole - who can finally look at her switched-off comp at home without feeling >guilty > >===== >Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism > >Email: nicole@kipar.org >URL: http://www.kipar.org > >________________________________________________________________________ >Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! >Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 09:08:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68D8ZHP003876 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:08:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68D81sU008838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68D7uBq026932; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:07:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68D7pBq026879 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:07:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h68D7np12678.; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:07:49 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:07:49 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:07:31 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help on late 18th-early 19th C undergarments Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Anne Fairchild wrote: Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> Specifically, I need descriptions of what men wore under their shirts, >vests and trousers to serve as underwear - what it was made of, how it >fastened, how it was held up, etc. - and the 'fly' details of mens >trousers/breeches within that time frame, and how they were held up. It isn't my period, but I do know that shirts were themselves thought of as underwear until about a century after that (which is why even to expose the shirtsleeves was regarded as *very* informal). And I think breeches/trousers still had fall fronts (i.e. a flap buttoned up to a deep waistband). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 09:25:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68DPhHP003908 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:25:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68DNKsU010279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:23:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68DNIBq004529; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:23:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68DNFBq004504 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:23:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.249.181.11] (pool181-46.patriot.net [209.249.181.46]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h68DNDOr021675 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:23:14 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030708072030.52635.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030708072030.52635.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:23:09 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] kilt school X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was at the Smithsonain Folklife Festival this past Sunday where one of the featured countries was Scotland. The kilt display was staffed by some faculty of the Keith Kilt School. Yes, there is a school that teaches traditional handcrafted kiltmaking. www.kiltschool.moray.org -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 09:38:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Dc6HP003927 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:38:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68DbgsU011338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:37:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68DbfBq011554; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:37:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h68DbZBq011501 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:37:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 63051 invoked by uid 1005); 8 Jul 2003 13:37:30 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.607704 secs); 08 Jul 2003 13:37:30 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.607704 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 8 Jul 2003 13:37:29 -0000 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:37:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian portraits 1550-1570 In-Reply-To: <3F0A4BBB.9091891D@in-tch.com> Message-ID: <20030708093538.C79262-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow! And here I thought he was being paranoid! It's a terrible world, where one's books aren't safe from fellow costumers... Drea (heading to Home Depot after work to pick up some window bars. ;) On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Sue Clemenger wrote: > No, but if you guys distract them, the "B" team's all ready for action! > > --sue > > Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > > > > > though my husband is convinced that, if I post lists of my books on the > > > internet, one night a crazed costuming fiend is going to crawl through the > > > sewing room window and make off with them all... > > > > > > Drea > > > > > > > > damn! Did someone rat me out? > > > > Dianne > > > > crossing Drea's house off the to-be-raided list... > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 09:50:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68DotHP003961 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:50:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68DoRsU012519 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:50:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68DoPBq017637; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:50:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68DoNBq017587 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:50:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.15d.2115f46a (18251) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:50:13 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <15d.2115f46a.2c3c2615@aol.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:50:13 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10634 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/8/2003 12:50:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, skud@infotrope.net writes: > Well then, where on earth is the benefit to weaving it in the shape in > the first place, if you're just going to hem it? Of course all this assumes you have a plain one color toga, not one with a border other woven decorations....in the 1st place. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 09:55:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68DtQHP003968 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:55:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68DsvsU012887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:54:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68DsuBq019928; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:54:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68DsrBq019835 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:54:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200307081354.h68DsrBq019835@net.indra.com> Received: from rwcrwbc03 (unknown[204.127.197.113](misconfigured sender)) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20030708135447015006ps2ue>; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:54:48 +0000 Received: from [198.178.8.81] by rwcrwbc03; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 13:54:45 +0000 From: eirenetz@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS / KWAR Announcement Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 13:54:45 +0000 X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jun 26 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWlyZW5ldHpAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Perhaps we could arrange an h-cost social-get-together-type-thingy. I'm sure we could get some space for an hour or two; I have a bit of pull with the autocrat. ;-) Eirene > Are we going to wear little "h"s so we know each other? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marc Carlson" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 2:35 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS / KWAR Announcement > > > > >From: Robin Netherton > > >I'll be there (obviously!). Anyone else? I'd love to meet some people > from > > >the list... > > > > Rumor has it I'm supposed to attend. > > > > Marc > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 09:56:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68DuWHP003971 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:56:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Du5sU012949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:56:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Du34W020422; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:56:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web60001.mail.yahoo.com (web60001.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.116.224]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h68Du14W020339 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030708135555.79317.qmail@web60001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.53] by web60001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:55:55 BST Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:55:55 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= To: Tudor Fashions , H-costume list , HNW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Demo on Tudor Embroidery at V&A - report X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well this weekend, jus gone, I gave a demonstration on Tudor Embroidery at the V&A. Fortunately there was quite a bit of interest. Most people seemed to be interested in the sources for the designs common in Tudor Embroidery, so it was quite fortunately that I brought along some pages from Gerards Herbal to demonstrate. I'd brought a few pieces along with me to show different styles of embroidery. Strangely it was my blackwork sampler that most people were interested in, probably due to the range of different patterns. I also brought a piece of goldwork, currently in progress, which eventually will be for a sweet purse. Unfortunately I had managed to hurt my arm so the demonstration was less that and more of a running commentary (lasting three hours!). Still it was good fun and I met alot of interesting people, and even managed to get a few men talking about embroidery! Rachel ===== Threads of History www.threadsofhistory.co.uk __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 10:22:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68EM9HP004036 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:22:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68ELhsU014911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:21:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68ELf4W004532; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:21:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68ELb4W004449 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:21:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1a9.175096ac (3940) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:21:31 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1a9.175096ac.2c3c2d6a@aol.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:21:30 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help on late 18th-early 19th C undergarments To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/7/2003 10:15:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, anne_fairchild@hotmail.com writes: > Specifically, I need descriptions of what men wore under their shirts, > vests > and trousers to serve as underwear - what it was made of, how it fastened, > how it was held up, etc. - Men did not usually wear under breeches, except for warmth. The shirt was pretty much it. There is an extant pair of underdrawers that belonged to Thomas Jefferson, who wore them for warmth. Does anyone on the list know where this pair is pictured? I can't remember if they are knitted wool or woven. My memory is that they are cut like regular breeches, with a drop front, but don't know if that is correct. After my first off-the-cuff response, above, I checked with Baumgarten's "What Clothes Reveal." Jefferson wore undervests, too, and other men also wore drawers. Lord Botetourt's inventory listed 22 pairs of drawers of linen, cotton, and flannel, and 10 under waistcoats. And Washington's orders to his London tailor specified that his breeches were to be worn over drawers and that his measurements were taken accordingly. (p. 30). Jefferson's drawers are not pictured, but fig. 43-44, on p. 28, is a photo of a linen pair from France. It has the wide waistband of breeches, and fastens with two covered buttons on the waistband above an open placket. The knee bands have linen tape ties. The waistband is open at back with eyelets, again as breeches were often cut. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 10:22:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68EMeHP004039 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:22:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68EMBsU014950 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:22:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68EMA4W004795; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:22:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web9407.mail.yahoo.com (web9407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h68EM84W004760 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:22:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030708142207.46802.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.153] by web9407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 07:22:07 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:22:07 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blow the trumpets! New L'Age d'Or web site online at long last To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F0A7444.5020503@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nicole--what an interesting site! This is a time period I am unfamilar with---and it looks fascinating:) thanks for sharing ! Albra Deredere Galbraith wrote: The time travel gallery is fun!!!!!!! :-) :-) :-) Greetings, Deredere N Kipar wrote: >Dear All, > >In case you are interested - if you are not I shall find you, wherever you >may hide :-) I have finally, at long last and after painful labour of over 9 >months, more or less finished the new L'Age d'Or web site. I hope you like it >(if not, don't even think of telling me! *laughs*) > >http://www.kipar.org/index.html > >There will be lots of bookmarks and links out there which point to nothing, >because the re-structure was truly an upheaval, so please be aware of that, in >case you have bookmarked anything beyond the index page. > >Best wishes > >Nicole - who can finally look at her switched-off comp at home without feeling >guilty > >===== >Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism > >Email: nicole@kipar.org >URL: http://www.kipar.org > >________________________________________________________________________ >Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! >Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 10:34:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68EYIHP004061 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:34:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68EXjsU016153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:33:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68EXh4W011137; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:33:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68EXf4W011118 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:33:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) JAA17639 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:33:40 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <000401c3455e$0f8199e0$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5f.3c3aa625.2c3b5ac4@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:34:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just got the video yesterday (actually 2 disc DVD set) from BN.com. The one I ordered is the Canadian(will play on US equipment)version. Haven't had a chance to watch it all yet, but looked at the first five minutes or so of the Anne Boleyn section--there are lots of reinactments in costumes so we'll have a lot to critique. I'm sure PBS will offer the video and the book. I got the British printing of the book back in March and like the cover much better than the American version. The background is a dramatic black with head & shoulders "shot" of each wife arranged in stairstep fashion. The pics of the wives are bigger than on the American cover and very striking. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 11:06:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68F6EHP004166 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:06:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68F5dsU019561 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:05:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68F5bB0001385; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:05:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68F5UB0001291 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:05:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.170] (pm5-170.eos.net [205.133.149.170]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14838 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:05:27 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:59:42 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200307080452.h684qIdC013469@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: bjarne's new dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne: That is a really striking style, I'm sure it will be lovely! I haven't ever seen it before, so I don't know . . . but the collar on the lady's short coat (?) looks bigger to me than you have made it -- more like a big semi-circle. But it very pretty! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 11:22:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FMtHP004205 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:22:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FMSsU021181 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:22:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FMQB0012161; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:22:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FMLB0012115 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:22:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.170] (pm5-170.eos.net [205.133.149.170]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20758 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:22:18 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 11:16:34 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200307080452.h684qIdC013469@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: cote step-by-step X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I love this site! It's so nicely put together and easy to follow! Having made some of these gowns myself and followed some of Robin's written instructions, I know this will work. There are some differences between Tasha's and Robin's instructions, but it seems to me that following either would give anyone a good gown. What I liked best: 1) The model has an "in-between" sort of figure, neither straight nor heavy, which should give people of all figure types a base to go on. 2) Showing the fitting in so many detailed steps really lets you see how the cut and fit of this gown makes the model look her most attractive. 3) The comparison of both methods and the model's experiences of wearing both. 4) Showing period art that supports (pardon the pun) both looks. Anyway, that's my opinion! Thanks for doing this great site. With both Tasha and Robin do go from, everyone interested in one of these gowns should be able to find instructions he/she can follow. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 11:30:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FUbHP004217 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:30:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FUAsU022068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:30:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FU7B0017983; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:30:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FThB0017644 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:29:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ZuPT-0000rQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 08:29:43 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:29:55 -0700 Message-ID: <001501c34565$c9c94490$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] When you have trouble posting....might want to file this note X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h68FUbHP004217 Status: RO This weekend when my mail was bouncing, I tried to go here: http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Instead of the usual list information a 'bug' problem report sheet popped up with instructions to send it to webmaster@indra.com to facilitate it getting fixed. In less than a half hour I got a very nice response from someone and the list was working again. Thought you all might want to file this away for future reference when you can't get in touch with Elizabeth. Saragrace _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 11:34:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FY8HP004232 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:34:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FXdsU022432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:33:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FXcB0020622; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:33:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FXWB0020547 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:33:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h68FXVSH016252 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.196.207] (tnt-1-15.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.207]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FXRjN016031 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:33:29 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <169.211d6451.2c3a1377@aol.com> <00af01c344a3$22ce2880$a209bbd0@bently> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:16:32 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 4:29 PM -0400 7/7/03, Kirrily Robert wrote: >Heather wrote: >> If one were weaving a toga to shape on the loom, it would be done >> similarly -- you'd simply ignore warp threads that weren't part of >> the shape you were trying to create. Keep in mind that these looms >> would have involved passing the shuttle through the shed by hand -- >> no flying shuttles! -- so you aren't slowing the process down by >> doing only partial wefts. > >Presumably you then have to cut it off the loom and trim the remaining >warps down close to the woven area. How do you then stop it from >fraying? I believe that on tunics the cut ends get tied off in small groups and then either woven in or incorporated into seams. But I'd have to look to see if I've got any definitive information -- it doesn't tend to be what the publications focus on. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 11:41:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Ff1HP004283 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:41:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FdNsU023202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:39:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FdMB0024731; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:39:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f9.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FdJB0024654 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:39:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:39:14 -0700 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:39:13 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:39:13 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jul 2003 15:39:14.0023 (UTC) FILETIME=[1571BF70:01C34567] Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 387 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO snip... >There is a choli pattern available from Fat Chance Belly Dance. >It's mostly instructions on _how_ to draft your measurements into >the pattern. I followed their instructions and got a top that fit. >I can see one mistake I made, which was making the bottom piece of the >cup too short (the cup is made up of three triangular pieces). But even >the first try came out okay. The two pattern versions fit A-B cups and >C-D cups. I'm a DD, and it took very little effort to make the pattern >fit me. >http://fcbd.com/html/folkwear.html#choli I have this same choli pattern and love it. It's great for all body types and varieties are only inhibited by the imagination. I've been thinking about making an adaptation of this pattern into a tankini top. It would offer great support and the coverage that I'm looking for. My biggest problem when putting this together the first time was the under arm gusset. I wasn't aware that there was a technique for these types of corners. The one thing my sewing class at school taught me, was how to do this. It made the entire borring class worthwhile!!! I think that if you try this pattern you won't be disappointed. :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 11:46:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Fk1HP004305 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:46:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FjSsU023875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:45:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FjPB0028949; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:45:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f44.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FjMB0028842 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:45:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:45:17 -0700 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:45:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:45:17 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jul 2003 15:45:17.0767 (UTC) FILETIME=[EE40AD70:01C34567] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Help on late 18th-early 19th C undergarments X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, There is a neat little book available that discusses the history of underclothes. I bought it recently and have really enjoyed reading it. I'm not as familiar with my facts so I can't really vouch for it's historical accuracy. Perhaps someone else here will know if it is to be trusted or not... Anyway, I found that it had some nice pictures and lots of details. You can find it at this link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486271242/qid=1057678839/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/102-9791921-2032124?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 I'm sure you can find it elsewhere but I just looked at amazon to see if it was available. Hope that helps a little bit. :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 11:47:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FldHP004310 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:47:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Fl6sU024127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:47:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Fl5B0000250; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:47:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f9.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Fl3B0000111 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:47:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:46:58 -0700 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:46:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:46:57 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jul 2003 15:46:58.0010 (UTC) FILETIME=[2A008BA0:01C34568] Subject: [h-cost] Help on late 18th-early 19th C undergarments X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oops! I meant to address that response to Anne, not Bjarne. Sorry about any confusion that might have caused!!!! :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 11:50:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FoYHP004314 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:50:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FnusU024429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:49:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FnrB0001929; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:49:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40909.mail.yahoo.com (web40909.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h68FnoB0001835 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:49:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030708154945.34393.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.167.44.149] by web40909.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 08:49:45 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:49:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200307081530.h68FUXB2018403@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: cote step-by-step X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is Part 1 of the response I tried to send to this list on Sunday but had trouble getting through. I'll send Part 2 immediately following. I broke it up in case it was too long and would require manual review by our list admin... --Tasha ____________ Maura wrote: > > Robin, I was especially thinking of you when I > decided to post this. Thanks, Maura, for posting my site here. I must admit that when I posted the link I was rather fried and didn't have the energy to continue posting it to other pertinent lists, like this one, that night -- I had to leave town at the crack of dawn on Friday for a grueling 2-day interstate move of some family which I've just recovered from as of this morning. :^) > Wow, what a great job! Thank you so much, Robin. Coming from you, that means a LOT to me. > Tasha and I talk a fair > amount, and have talked > recently, and she hasn't mentioned working on this, > so I hope you haven't > spoiled a surprise; No, definitely not a surprise, but I feel the site is still technically in draft mode -- subject to future small fixes, here and there. I often can't remember who I've mumbled to about working on the site. :^) One thing I regretted as I faded off to sleep on Thursday evening after I posted the link to a couple of pertinent SCA-related lists was "Forgot to email Robin too..." This morning I was all set to send out individual emails for folks who might enjoy it and saw that it has already spread here, which is good, certainly! > is it public yet, or is she > beta-testing? A little of both -- I'm looking for feedback, and will certainly use your comments, Robin, to consider rephrasing or clarifying certain bits -- like making sure folks understand that there are other advantages to the straight-front-seam method, and that it WAS my first time attempting it, etc. Also, I don't want folks to think it's a "you're either doing it Robin's way or Tasha's way and the twain shall never meet". It would probably be a good idea to stress the similarity of philosophical approach between the two methods. I've been saying for some time that folks need not assume that my tweaks are vastly different in process from yours, though lots of folks do seem to stress that they are. Also, my photo-essays are of two completely unique fittings in the sense that next time, I might do things slightly differently (well, probably a lot differently if it were to be a straight-front-seam one). No two fittings would ever be the same, and so folks can't really use the photo-essays as rigid steps -- more like a general overview for someone who wants to try draping or is already experienced with it in other ways but hasn't done this particular version. > There are some things I know she > got from me (e.g. fitting lying down, and fitting > the lining first to use > as a guide for the outer fabric), Oh yes, and those are great ideas that work fabulously. I'm pretty sure it's mentioned in various places that I'm following your methods there, because it's very important to me not to simply become the "owner" of something that I didn't come up with myself. Interestingly enough, I don't have any gowns of my _own_ that are lined yet (they are all cottes simples), but will definitely be doing that later this year (when my weight stabilizes). I've got some gorgeous silk twill and silk broadcloth waiting to become "The Gown" for winter wear... :^) > There are some things we do very differently. I > always do fittings over a > chemise, Good idea, and now I recall you mentioning this before. I do tend to do the fittings with my model in the buff from the waist up. :^) Many jokes about banishing any poor men who happen to be around ensue. Part 2 coming next! -Tasha ===== http://www.cottesimple.com An exploration of European clothing and accessories from the late 14th/early 15th centuries. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 11:57:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FuxHP004323 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:56:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FuQsU025140 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:56:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68FuNT1006675; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:56:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40912.mail.yahoo.com (web40912.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.209]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h68FuIT1006489 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:56:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030708155612.33745.qmail@web40912.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.167.44.149] by web40912.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 08:56:12 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:56:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200307081530.h68FUXB2018403@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: cote step-by-step (2) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Part 2 of my original attempted response to Robin's comments: ________ > maybe my fingers aren't strong > enough I did mention that basting takes finger muscles.... I know it sounds like a joke, but I've had cramps from it. And, like you said, it would catch the chemise if you basted with it on the body, so now I'm wondering, how do you get really tight fits without poking your models with pins?? That's something that I certainly haven't perfected yet. > What does concern me is that some people may look at > this and see it as a > sort of a competition between "Robin's way" and > "Tasha's way." That would > be, I think, an oversimplification, and I don't > think it's what Tasha > would intend. Oh goodness, no. I think I will rework the comparison page, perhaps with a little more in the introductory text at the top to make it clear that this was my experiment to learn more/satisfy my curiosity, not to disprove or downgrade your method. I'll get right to it. When I started the experiment, it was actually to get to the point of showing the different silhouettes -- that part fascinates me much more than the fitting processes themselves, actually. > One of the things I try to stress in my > lectures/workshops is that there were no doubt a lot > of individual variations in approach from one > place/year/dressmaker to another, and that > I teach the version that has worked best for me. Robin, you might be amazed how often I have to remind people that you yourself say this -- that you are not advocating a "my way or the highway" approach, and that you feel there were probably variations in period, etc. I am often met with bemused or polite silence. It is a rather human quirk that folks will codify a great theory into a Very Specific Law , right down the the exact shape of a seam. > Overall, though, it's still the same technique, and > we're coming from the > same side of the discussion. I think so, too. My fitting variations came out of some access to your descriptions of fitting in writing and a lot of time on my own, trying to fill in the gaps. I am 'of your school', so to speak. > "Oh, Tasha showed that Robin's method isn't as > comfortable." I need to rework that comparison section to make it clearer that it was my first attempt and one that I find flawed -- not in the possibilities of what could be, but in the mistakes I made. My model, Sheree, can tell you how disappointed I was when we noticed the 'issues' with the straight-front-seam gown -- I SO wanted it to be as successful as the other one. I think I said something like, "Why would I want anyone to think I'm not a great seamstress??" ;^P Also, my mistakes on that gown take away from the comparison. If it had turned out perfectly, I could have done much more of a "head-to-head" comparison, like you describe. > And her bottom line on the resulting silhouette > shape captures the essence > of the difference. I'm glad you liked that! I've tried to explain that general difference to folks in person and it always results in me manhandling my own bosom in a rather comical way. Now I can just point to a URL and preserve my body's dignity. > In > my own experience, I think a curved front -- though > easier to fit -- > exaggerates the front projection for a larger-busted > woman. Yes, it generally does, I think, though there is _some_ compression and laying-down. I fit a friend recently who is well-endowed (and on this list) and the result was much less front-projected than how her everyday bra supported her. There's no chance of getting anything that looks distinctly modern or bra-like, at least. I've wondered if this sort of curved-seam fitting in 8 (or 6) panels might create more of a modern bra look, but haven't yet 'gone there' in my experimentation. (I'm imagining the Agnes Sorel gown, which looks like the center-front seam is quite straight -- while there could be shaping through the seams that lay over each breast..) > A straight > front adds more support down the middle (same > principle as the busk, but > more flexible) and lets you shape the bust to go > wider, rather than > forward, which I think is more typical of period > aesthetic. I think I didn't get this as much in my straight-front-seam fitting because I was pulling too tightly on the side seams. > All in all, a good and comprehensive job, and one > I'll probably refer > people to if they want to see visuals. Thank you. :^) > Though I have > a feeling I'm going > to have to start dealing with a lot of people who > don't read carefully and > base their opinions of *my* work on Tasha's > experiment ... I'd like to avoid that too! > I haven't read Tasha's paper yet, though -- my limp > little computer can't > handle the download. I know that paper is a problem, size-wise and technically -- people having trouble accessing it. I'm still thinking about workarounds. Once again, thank you Robin, for your fair and comprehensive review of my site, and I will be working on it a bit over the next few weeks to (hopefully) make it more clear that this was my FIRST TIME attempting a straight-front-seam draping, etc. and that my take on how it came out can only be based on that -- not on expert experience with that fitting method. -Tasha ===== http://www.cottesimple.com An exploration of European clothing and accessories from the late 14th/early 15th centuries. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 12:20:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68GKrHP004355 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:20:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68GKLsU028203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:20:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68GKJT1026185; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:20:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68GKHT1026110 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:20:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-237-231.client.attbi.com[12.246.237.231](untrusted sender)) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003070816201101100fgtese>; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:20:11 +0000 Message-ID: <3F0AEF3A.5050408@fenris.net> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 09:20:10 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: choli, was Re: [h-cost] modern corsets, etc References: <200307080142.h681gb621789@gw.retro.com> In-Reply-To: <200307080142.h681gb621789@gw.retro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Folkwear has a pattern that includes a choli top (closed back, unlike the Fat Chance open back style). http://www.folkwear.com/asian.html (South Asian tops and wraps) liz young Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: >>From: Cecilia >> >>One reason that I'd like to learn how to draft >>patterns is to replicate the sari top that was >>made for me when I was 16. >> >There is a choli pattern available from Fat Chance Belly Dance. >It's mostly instructions on _how_ to draft your measurements into >the pattern. I followed their instructions and got a top that fit. >I can see one mistake I made, which was making the bottom piece of the >cup too short (the cup is made up of three triangular pieces). But even >the first try came out okay. The two pattern versions fit A-B cups and >C-D cups. I'm a DD, and it took very little effort to make the pattern >fit me. >http://fcbd.com/html/folkwear.html#choli > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 12:53:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Gr6HP004405 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:53:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68GqSsU001815 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:52:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68GqPT1020820; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:52:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68GqKT1020742 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:52:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-176-91.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.176.91]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11DF52F95C for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:52:10 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: cote step-by-step (2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030708155612.33745.qmail@web40912.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <846460BF-B164-11D7-935C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >> I haven't read Tasha's paper yet, though -- my limp >> little computer can't >> handle the download. > > I know that paper is a problem, size-wise and > technically -- people having trouble accessing it. I'm > still thinking about workarounds. > Perhaps you could get someone to convert it to PDF for you, since that works on all formats? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 13:17:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HHbHP004462 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:17:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HHCsU004792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:17:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HHBnA010618; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:17:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HGhnA010326 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:16:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h68HGgSH004202 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:16:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.196.207] (tnt-1-15.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.207]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HGUjP003752 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <109.2583cef7.2c3b44b3@aol.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:05:24 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 9:28 PM -0400 7/7/03, Kirrily Robert wrote: > >> Presumably you then have to cut it off the loom and trim the remaining >>> warps down close to the woven area. How do you then stop it from >>> fraying? >> >> There's nothing to stop you from hemming it. > >Well then, where on earth is the benefit to weaving it in the shape in >the first place, if you're just going to hem it? It ends up almost >indistinguishable from a garment that's been cut from normal cloth. >Sure, cutting a T involves wastage of fabric, but that's what piecing is >for. Sure, with the weaving-in-shape method you get a garment with a >couple less seams, but it hardly seems worth the effort. I rather suspect that the difference comes in with the weaving technology. If you're weaving with a type of loom that's designed to work much more efficiently when throwing the shuttle the entire width of the fabric, then it's much more reasonable to cut and piece to get the shapes you want. But my impression is that the Roman-era looms had different efficiency parameters. If you wove the fabric larger than you needed and cut it, you weren't simply creating waste fabric, but you were creating waste fabric that had been noticeably more work to create in the first place than simply not weaving that section would have been. But when it comes down to it, they _did_ weave tunics to shape. We know that for a fact. So there must have been some advantage to doing it that way that may not be obvious. It wasn't a matter of "not knowing how" to do it another way, because cut and shaped garments appear in Egypt significantly earlier -- it's specifically the Roman- (and post-Roman) era "T tunics" that are typically woven to shape. While it's tangential to the cause-and-effect of the weaving style, the particular loom arrangement used for these tunics -- with the warps going horizontally across the body of the garment -- had a strong influence on the nature of the woven-in ornamentation typical of this era. The "clavii" stripes, which in surviving garments are often highly elaborate tapestry designs, would be a horizontal weft band on the loom. You'd go merrily along weaving plain fabric, and then spend a brief intense period creating an elaborate tapestry design, then go back to plain weaving for a while. It seems likely to me that the clavii style decoration was a byproduct of the weaving arrangement. The ability to create the neck opening as a "selvedge" slit within the fabric also depended on arranging the garment horizontally on the loom. Many of these features must have been considered strongly desirable, since setting up a loom wide enough for this arrangement would be more awkward than one that was simply the width of the body of the garment. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 13:19:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HJFHP004465 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:19:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HGisU004722 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:16:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HGfnA010310; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:16:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HGdnA010282 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:16:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h68HGcSH003976 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.196.207] (tnt-1-15.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.207]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HGUjN003752 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:16:34 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3F0A1239.DEC79992@in-tch.com> References: <001801c34487$7795de10$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> <3F0A1239.DEC79992@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:47:26 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS / KWAR Announcement Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 6:37 PM -0600 7/7/03, Sue Clemenger wrote: >*snort* >I have this image of a list-only competition, involving the fanciest >embroidered "H" at KWCS.... >--sue "just call me Hester" clemenger Funny ... I had exactly the same image! (I won't be there myself. Now that I'm job-hunting, I'm being even _more_ careful about money than when it was just a matter of being in school.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 13:24:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HO5HP004478 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:24:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HNYsU005597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:23:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HNXnA015363; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:23:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11406.mail.yahoo.com (web11406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h68HNUnA015335 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:23:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030708172329.94056.qmail@web11406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.188] by web11406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:23:29 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:23:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS / KWAR Announcement To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001801c34487$7795de10$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO maybe scarlet ones... Jeff --- Beteena Paradise wrote: > Are we going to wear little "h"s so we know each other? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 13:24:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HOfHP004482 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:24:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HOHsU005671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:24:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HODnA015855; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:24:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HO9nA015791 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:24:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h68HO8iv020734 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:24:08 -0400 Message-Id: <200307081724.h68HO8iv020734@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:20:34 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS / KWAR Announcement From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's a thought - print out a few copies of how to join the list. Then if anyone asks what the "H" is for, you can recruit them onto the list! -Carol At 6:37 PM -0600 7/7/03, Sue Clemenger wrote: >*snort* >I have this image of a list-only competition, involving the fanciest >embroidered "H" at KWCS.... >--sue "just call me Hester" clemenger _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 13:37:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HbHHP004502 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:37:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HadsU007350 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:36:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HabnA024844; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:36:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11401.mail.yahoo.com (web11401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h68HaWnA024788 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:36:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030708173632.33740.qmail@web11401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.188] by web11401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:36:32 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:36:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <002701c344b7$c88e2a90$773bd118@duncan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OOH. I've not got cable. Anybody recording it? Jeff --- Ailith Mackintosh wrote: > Greetings. > > On July 16 and 23, PBS will be airing a 2 part documentary on The Six > Wives of Henry VIII from the wives' points of view. Is this the one > that was broadcast a while back in the UK? Dr. David Starkey is the > host. > > kate > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 13:42:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HgfHP004516 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:42:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Hg3sU008069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:42:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Hg0nA028871; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:42:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HfunA028821 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:41:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from karen (CPE-65-26-82-7.kc.rr.com [65.26.82.7]) h68HfuZF024955 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:41:56 -0500 (CDT) From: "Talia" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: cote step-by-step Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:41:41 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: <846460BF-B164-11D7-935C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No problems here. I downloaded it and it opens just fine. Talia > >> I haven't read Tasha's paper yet, though -- my limp > >> little computer can't > >> handle the download. > > > > I know that paper is a problem, size-wise and > > technically -- people having trouble accessing it. I'm > > still thinking about workarounds. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 13:43:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HhOHP004520 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:43:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HgtsU008185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:42:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HgsnA029555; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:42:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h68HgHnA029097 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:42:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-118-212-17.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@67.118.212.17 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2003 17:42:16 -0000 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:42:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030708173632.33740.qmail@web11401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <7FCD80BA-B16B-11D7-BBD5-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, this program is on PBS. Check http://www.pbs.org for times in your area. :) Sarah On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 10:36 AM, Jeff Brainard wrote: > OOH. I've not got cable. Anybody recording it? > > Jeff > > > --- Ailith Mackintosh wrote: >> Greetings. >> >> On July 16 and 23, PBS will be airing a 2 part documentary on The Six >> Wives of Henry VIII from the wives' points of view. Is this the one >> that was broadcast a while back in the UK? Dr. David Starkey is the >> host. >> >> kate >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 13:52:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HqAHP004544 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:52:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HnWsU009046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:49:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HnUnA004217; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:49:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.188]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h68Hn4nA003931 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:49:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-118-212-17.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@67.118.212.17 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2003 17:48:24 -0000 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:48:17 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030708173632.33740.qmail@web11401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <5B0303B8-B16C-11D7-BBD5-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I found PBS's website for the program: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/sixwives/ Okay, will you *look* at that god-awful excuse for head gear on the ladies heads??? Alright. I promised myself I wasn't going to snark, but wow. That's just depressingly bad. Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 13:55:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HtDHP004551 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:55:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HsksU009713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:54:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68HsinA008145; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:54:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.183]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h68HsenA008101 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:54:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-118-212-17.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@67.118.212.17 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2003 17:54:39 -0000 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:54:30 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <5B0303B8-B16C-11D7-BBD5-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> Message-Id: <3961E946-B16D-11D7-BBD5-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 10:48 AM, Sarah wrote: > I found PBS's website for the program: > http://www.pbs.org/wnet/sixwives/ > > Okay, will you *look* at that god-awful excuse for head gear on the > ladies heads??? > > Alright. I promised myself I wasn't going to snark, but wow. That's > just depressingly bad. Okay, I retract that statement a bit... After flipping though some of the website, it seems that *all* the headgear isn't quite so comical, but I just want to know one thing: Was anyone looking at the actual portrait of Anne of Cleves when they made that contraption for the actress? It looks like it's about to take flight off her head! Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 14:28:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68IS4HP004599 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:28:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68IP4sc013065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:27:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68INPJL000114; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:23:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11401.mail.yahoo.com (web11401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h68IN2JL029603 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:23:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030708182301.40818.qmail@web11401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.188] by web11401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 11:23:01 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:23:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: [h-cost] feeling ignernt To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <005801c344d1$8ad25680$710f77d8@w7m1l6> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-DCC-MessageCare-Metrics: net.indra.com 1108; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Negatory, good buddy. Women are worse. Jeff --- Stephen Bergdahl wrote: > Don't worry Bjarne > > I for one was not offended in anyway. You always hear about the > locker room > comments of men. Well women at a stitch & bitch can be just as bad. > Trust > me I been to both. > > Stephen > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > To: > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 2:41 PM > Subject: [h-cost] feeling ignernt > > > > Ladies, and gents.............. > > Pheeeewwwwwwwwwww. > > I am so sorry about the stupid things i said and the poor language > i used > > the other day. > > The topic was so frisky, and i was tired after a long day at work, > and i > was > > carried away about the frisky language. > > As a matter of fact i had such a huge laugh that i actually poored > myself > an > > xxxxl large gin, with no tonic and no ice. and i got carried away. > > Please ladies and please gents. I hope you will forget the stupid > things > i > > said...............(please) > > Bjarne who has recovered again from that large gin. > > Anyway it was ok to do, because i have a holliday now, and i > finished the > > dress..................... > > > > Bjarne > > > > > > > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 14:33:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68IXgHP004625 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:33:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68IWrsU013858 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:32:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68IWqJL007410; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:32:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11403.mail.yahoo.com (web11403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.233]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h68IWiJL007296 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:32:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030708183244.18670.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.188] by web11403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 11:32:44 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:32:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS / KWAR Announcement To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F0A1239.DEC79992@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was thinking more along the lines of "Dorkus". On another note, who all is going to KWCS? I'm planning to go but need to find some folks to share the gas with me. I'm in Great Falls, MT. Lemme know. Jeff --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > *snort* > I have this image of a list-only competition, involving the fanciest > embroidered "H" at KWCS.... > --sue "just call me Hester" clemenger > > Beteena Paradise wrote: > > > > Are we going to wear little "h"s so we know each other? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Marc Carlson" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 2:35 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS / KWAR Announcement > > > > > >From: Robin Netherton > > > >I'll be there (obviously!). Anyone else? I'd love to meet some > people > > from > > > >the list... > > > > > > Rumor has it I'm supposed to attend. > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 14:37:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68IbbHP004709 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:37:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68IausU014237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:36:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68IasJL010375; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:36:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68IanJL010274 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:36:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030708183648.OMRD2652.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:36:48 +0100 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030708193627.0198ba80@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 19:36:47 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII In-Reply-To: <3961E946-B16D-11D7-BBD5-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> References: <5B0303B8-B16C-11D7-BBD5-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-8981F85; boundary="=======72224354=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======72224354======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-8981F85; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 10:54 08/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Okay, I retract that statement a bit... After flipping though some of the >website, it seems that *all* the headgear isn't quite so comical, but I >just want to know one thing: Was anyone looking at the actual portrait of >Anne of Cleves when they made that contraption for the actress? It looks >like it's about to take flight off her head! This series was made for Channel 5, which probably means it was made on the cheap. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======72224354======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======72224354=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 14:47:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68IlYHP004757 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:47:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68IkksU015442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:46:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68IkjJL017557; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:46:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11410.mail.yahoo.com (web11410.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.221]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h68IkfJL017514 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:46:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030708184631.13570.qmail@web11410.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.188] by web11410.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 11:46:31 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:46:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <7FCD80BA-B16B-11D7-BBD5-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah, here in BFE, Montana, PBS _is_ a cable channel. I know...ugh...can't wait to move back to a city. J. --- Sarah wrote: > Actually, this program is on PBS. Check http://www.pbs.org for times > > in your area. :) > > Sarah > > On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 10:36 AM, Jeff Brainard wrote: > > > OOH. I've not got cable. Anybody recording it? > > > > Jeff > > > > > > --- Ailith Mackintosh wrote: > >> Greetings. > >> > >> On July 16 and 23, PBS will be airing a 2 part documentary on The > Six > >> Wives of Henry VIII from the wives' points of view. Is this the > one > >> that was broadcast a while back in the UK? Dr. David Starkey is > the > >> host. > >> > >> kate > >> _______________________________________________ > >> h-costume mailing list > >> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 14:47:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68IlkHP004760 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:47:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68IlCsU015484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:47:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68IlBJL017910; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:47:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11409.mail.yahoo.com (web11409.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.220]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h68Il9JL017877 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:47:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030708184708.12351.qmail@web11409.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.188] by web11409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 11:47:08 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:47:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <7FCD80BA-B16B-11D7-BBD5-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah, here in BFE, Montana, PBS _is_ a cable channel. I know...ugh...can't wait to move back to a city. J. PS. Bjarne, the answer is "uncut". ;> --- Sarah wrote: > Actually, this program is on PBS. Check http://www.pbs.org for times > > in your area. :) > > Sarah > > On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 10:36 AM, Jeff Brainard wrote: > > > OOH. I've not got cable. Anybody recording it? > > > > Jeff > > > > > > --- Ailith Mackintosh wrote: > >> Greetings. > >> > >> On July 16 and 23, PBS will be airing a 2 part documentary on The > Six > >> Wives of Henry VIII from the wives' points of view. Is this the > one > >> that was broadcast a while back in the UK? Dr. David Starkey is > the > >> host. > >> > >> kate > >> _______________________________________________ > >> h-costume mailing list > >> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 15:07:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68J7cHP004806 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:07:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68J5XsU017841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:05:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68J5WMZ002875; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:05:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68J5PMZ002779 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:05:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-176-91.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.176.91]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0499C2F95B for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:06:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:00:45 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030708184631.13570.qmail@web11410.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <7AFDE93B-B176-11D7-935C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO and in this city (San Francisco) you can't get a single channel without paying for cable because of all the interference! .heather. (therefore, doesn't have PBS either. thank goodness for Netflix) On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 11:46 AM, Jeff Brainard wrote: > Yeah, here in BFE, Montana, PBS _is_ a cable channel. I > know...ugh...can't wait to move back to a city. > > J. > > > --- Sarah wrote: >> Actually, this program is on PBS. Check http://www.pbs.org for times >> >> in your area. :) >> >> Sarah >> >> On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 10:36 AM, Jeff Brainard wrote: >> >>> OOH. I've not got cable. Anybody recording it? >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> >>> --- Ailith Mackintosh wrote: >>>> Greetings. >>>> >>>> On July 16 and 23, PBS will be airing a 2 part documentary on The >> Six >>>> Wives of Henry VIII from the wives' points of view. Is this the >> one >>>> that was broadcast a while back in the UK? Dr. David Starkey is >> the >>>> host. >>>> >>>> kate >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> h-costume mailing list >>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >>> >>> __________________________________ >>> Do you Yahoo!? >>> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >>> http://sbc.yahoo.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 15:28:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68JS2HP004843 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:28:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68JRIsU020119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:27:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68JRGMZ019061; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:27:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20208.mail.yahoo.com (web20208.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h68JRCMZ019009 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:27:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030708192712.7821.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [168.103.60.157] by web20208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 12:27:12 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:27:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Angela Kovatch To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20030708183244.18670.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] FO: My wedding dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What period, you ask? Well, I admit to not doing specific research, but I like to think it's my take on how they could have done 16th-17th century in the 1890s. (Underclothing is '90s, details are inspired by the drawing for Richard the Thread's "Restoration" woman, as well as from my opinions on "the best of Yore.") Sorry I couldn't wait until we've got our final pics, but the photographer's got them up on his website. Only problem is, they take a while to load. There are three sets of pictures, but the dressing process as well as the portraits of me are mostly in the first one: http://www.michaelnaimo.com/JerAngone/index.htm These are particularly good shots of the dress: 0025 (about 1/4 down page, in the thumbnails on the left)- overview 0039 (1/3 down page)- skirt (the picture is sideways) 015 (halfway down page)- bodice front (I'm hoping I can get high-res versions of some like this one for my own website, because there's lots of detail going on here) 071 (close to bottom- another nice overview 072- back view 081- side view Meanwhile, does anyone know of a good list like this for wedding dressmakers? I feel kind of guilty asking questions for projects that aren't specifically historical, though they're often the same techniques. For example, my current question is whether anyone has experience working with or wearing white velvet. For the next wedding dress I'm making, we're considering using a burnout velvet, and I don't know whether the burnout pattern would be enough to mitigate the "lint-brush effect" of velvet, and would it look too dingy near the floor after an hour or two? Thanks for letting me show off my handiwork. -Angela P.S. Despite the concern of family and friends when they saw the design, the dress was in fact finished *hours* before the ceremony. At least, I think it was a full two hours before. Anyway, in time for me to do my hair and makeup. :) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 15:32:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68JWXHP004864 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:32:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68JVssU020768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:31:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68JVrMZ022498; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:31:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20207.mail.yahoo.com (web20207.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h68JVnMZ022420 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:31:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030708193148.49548.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [168.103.60.157] by web20207.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 12:31:48 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:31:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Angela Kovatch To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20030708183244.18670.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] 1890s bodice "shrinkage" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I meant to say that on my wedding dress, the same thing happened as on the only other 19th-C dress I've made, a '90s ballgown. Although I fitted the bodice mock-up very carefully over the corset fairly loosely laced (with Katy Bishop's help on the second one--thanks), by the time the actual bodice was finished I had to tight-lace the corset to get it on. I'm guessing this has to do with the number of layers in the actual dress (though they're thin fabric) and the added thickness of the stays & bone casings, but it still seems wierd to me. Have other people experienced this, or am I introducing error while sewing, somehow? If this is normal, I will just have to remember to fit the mock-up loose next time. -Angela __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 15:49:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68JneHP004918 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:49:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68JmwsU022919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:48:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68JmsMZ005733; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:48:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h68JmoMZ005594 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:48:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCiFExoOqHLv9qWB1kopIZoLJ7VTbwwT4ag==">; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:47:50 EDT Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H4LECLTK; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:47:50 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:00:02 -0500 Message-ID: <20030708.150002.-284603.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-12 From: seamstrix@juno.com Subject: [h-cost] New Pix Posted X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello Everyone, The photos of my new Elizabethan Court gown are now up on my web site. Muchos gracias to Marie Post (Big Pink Marie) for her services as photographer. There are also a couple of new middle class outfits as well. http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/ Click on the friendly leaf that says 'Elizabethan Costumes'. Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 16:45:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68KjgHP005029 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:45:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68KiosU000523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:44:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68KimW8020618; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:44:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster1.mebtel.net [64.40.67.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68KiiW8020562 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:44:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-71.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.71]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93DD91F89B for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:31:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F0B3BAA.3020301@grics.net> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:46:18 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's References: <109.2583cef7.2c3b44b3@aol.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This page has a lot of fascinating info on togas. (I have no idea how accurate but there oughtta be something useable) http://infotoronto.com/mythnet/romel/html/clothmen.html HL Heather Rose Jones wrote: > At 9:28 PM -0400 7/7/03, Kirrily Robert wrote: > >> >> Presumably you then have to cut it off the loom and trim the >> remaining >> >>>> warps down close to the woven area. How do you then stop it from >>>> fraying? >>> >>> >>> There's nothing to stop you from hemming it. >> >> >> Well then, where on earth is the benefit to weaving it in the shape in >> the first place, if you're just going to hem it? It ends up almost >> indistinguishable from a garment that's been cut from normal cloth. >> Sure, cutting a T involves wastage of fabric, but that's what piecing is >> for. Sure, with the weaving-in-shape method you get a garment with a >> couple less seams, but it hardly seems worth the effort. > > > I rather suspect that the difference comes in with the weaving > technology. If you're weaving with a type of loom that's designed to > work much more efficiently when throwing the shuttle the entire width > of the fabric, then it's much more reasonable to cut and piece to get > the shapes you want. But my impression is that the Roman-era looms > had different efficiency parameters. If you wove the fabric larger > than you needed and cut it, you weren't simply creating waste fabric, > but you were creating waste fabric that had been noticeably more work > to create in the first place than simply not weaving that section > would have been. > > But when it comes down to it, they _did_ weave tunics to shape. We > know that for a fact. So there must have been some advantage to doing > it that way that may not be obvious. It wasn't a matter of "not > knowing how" to do it another way, because cut and shaped garments > appear in Egypt significantly earlier -- it's specifically the Roman- > (and post-Roman) era "T tunics" that are typically woven to shape. > > While it's tangential to the cause-and-effect of the weaving style, > the particular loom arrangement used for these tunics -- with the > warps going horizontally across the body of the garment -- had a > strong influence on the nature of the woven-in ornamentation typical > of this era. The "clavii" stripes, which in surviving garments are > often highly elaborate tapestry designs, would be a horizontal weft > band on the loom. You'd go merrily along weaving plain fabric, and > then spend a brief intense period creating an elaborate tapestry > design, then go back to plain weaving for a while. It seems likely to > me that the clavii style decoration was a byproduct of the weaving > arrangement. The ability to create the neck opening as a "selvedge" > slit within the fabric also depended on arranging the garment > horizontally on the loom. Many of these features must have been > considered strongly desirable, since setting up a loom wide enough for > this arrangement would be more awkward than one that was simply the > width of the body of the garment. > > Heather _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 16:57:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68KvfHP005069 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:57:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68KursU001858 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:56:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Kup5L029670; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:56:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Kul5L029516 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:56:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id r.63.1f95d268 (3924); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:56:38 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <63.1f95d268.2c3c8a06@aol.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:56:38 EDT To: elizabethanclothing@yahoogroups.com, h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 cc: baronyfenix@yahoogroups.com Subject: [h-cost] Who wants a LJ code? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I got three Live Journal codes to hand out...first three suckers who email me gets 'em. -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 16:59:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68KxMHP005080 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:59:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68KwPsU002065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:58:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68KwO5L001075; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:58:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4-7.mebtel.net [64.40.67.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68KwJ5L001001 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:58:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-71.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.71]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A574E39DC0 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:58:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F0B3ED2.70202@grics.net> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:59:46 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's References: <109.2583cef7.2c3b44b3@aol.com> <3F0B3BAA.3020301@grics.net> In-Reply-To: <3F0B3BAA.3020301@grics.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A bit off the site i just mentioned: > Some articles of clothing came from the loom ready to wear, but most > garments required some sewing. Tunics were made of two pieces of cloth > sewed together. Togas had to be measured, cut, and sewed to fit. Even > a coarse paenula was not woven in one piece. FWIW HL _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 17:32:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68LWrHP005154 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:32:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68LVgsU006713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:31:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68LVb5L026904; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:31:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40401.mail.yahoo.com (web40401.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h68LVY5L026785 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:31:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030708213129.41097.qmail@web40401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.77.204.32] by web40401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:31:29 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:31:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Quite Contrary To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200307051800.h65I0gMM001184@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Snail slime, was: Fake pearls X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:54:40 -0700 > From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Snail slime, was: Fake pearls > > OK, is it just me? Or does anyone else have visions of people > squeezing snails for their slime? I mean, how in the world do you > collect snail slime?!?!?!? Blech.... :-P > > A thoroughly grossed out Mary > > > ===== > This ought to really push you over the edge: In another life while > researching the effects of Poly Chlorinated Bi-Phenyls (aka as > PCBs) We > used to collect snails, expose them to the PCBs, cook 'em and grind > 'em > up in a blender, then extract their 'juice' to run gas spectrometry > on > them. They sure smelled good cookin' in the lab.... > > I had to keep reminding myself that we were using radio-isotopic > tracers > in them to prevent me from dipping! > > I never paid much attention to it, but I betcha there was plenty of > slime in there! > > Sg > You're right! That was just a tad too graphic for my stomach! Good thing I haven't eaten yet... :-D ~Mary ===== "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before." ~ Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 17:52:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68LqRHP005192 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:52:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68LoCsU009393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:50:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Lo85L011373; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:50:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Lo15L011254 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19a0LY-000IlW-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:50:00 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:48:27 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Toga how to's References: <200307072307.h67N7KOq010024@jefferson.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <200307072307.h67N7KOq010024@jefferson.patriot.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone happen to know whether Romans favoured fulled woolens or not? It would make a difference to whether you worried about hemming or not. Jean aquazoo@patriot.net wrote >AlbertCat@aol.com said: >> There's nothing to stop you from hemming it. > > But then why bother weaving it as an oval - why not just cut & hem to >shape? > > I handwove fabric for some Roman cloaks, and we decided to cut them as >ovals with the back a bit longer than the front. The sides were shorter for >better access for arms & hands. We made the hoods out of the leftover >fabric. >In one area, I butted the fulled wool and stitched it together, than fulled it >a bit more to hide the stitches. It worked! > > -Carol > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 18:16:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68MG3HP005286 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:16:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68MDnsU012437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:13:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68MDk65028722; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:13:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68MDh65028674 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:13:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-36-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.36.253])h68MDce2003834 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:13:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030708151026.00e1ed90@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:13:34 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How tall was Queen Elizabeth I? What modern equivalent dress size was she? Davenport says a jacket of hers is in the Elizabeth Day McCormic collection in the Boston Fine Arts Museum, if that's any help (Davenport compares her size with that of a ten-year-old girl). There must be other garments of hers around, mustn't there? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 18:21:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68MLLHP005331 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:21:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68MIGsU013638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:18:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68MIE65002519; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:18:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68MHl65002173 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:17:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Sopwith900@cs.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.18.328fedb4 (25914) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:17:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Sopwith900@cs.com Message-ID: <18.328fedb4.2c3c9d01@cs.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:17:37 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 8001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: help on late 18th/early19th C undergarments X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello Anne, Willett & Cunnington's The History of Underclothes has photos of some drawers from the Victoria & Albert Museum's collection, specifically "long drawers, of stockinette with feet" and a pair of short flannel drawers. There are also good descriptions of what changes you'll see in the cut of the shirt during the period; notably size of collar and cuffs differs from previous period. The 1808 Lady's Economical Assistant has been republished (ISBN 0-9640161-3-3) and details the men's shirt dimensions very well. This was an undergarment for men, with the possible addition of an underwaistcoat as has been mentioned. Ladies' undergarments are described in these sources as well. Good luck! Linda Bolla _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 18:41:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Mf9HP005415 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:41:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68McmsU016461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:38:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Mcj65018264; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:38:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68McV65018122 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:38:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030708223830.LSAD4771.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:38:30 +0100 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030708233755.029e5eb8@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 23:38:30 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030708151026.00e1ed90@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-78C97EE5; boundary="=======284E67FD=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======284E67FD======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-78C97EE5; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 15:13 08/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: >How tall was Queen Elizabeth I? What modern equivalent dress size was >she? Davenport says a jacket of hers is in the Elizabeth Day McCormic >collection in the Boston Fine Arts Museum, if that's any help (Davenport >compares her size with that of a ten-year-old girl). There must be other >garments of hers around, mustn't there? There's a wax effigy of her in the museum of Westminster Abbey. It was used at her funeral, as was customary in those days. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======284E67FD======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======284E67FD=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 18:43:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Mh1HP005423 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:43:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68MedsU016720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:40:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Meb65019673; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:40:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4-7.mebtel.net [64.40.67.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68MeY65019638 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:40:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-71.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.71]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36FFC39DBE for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:40:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F0B565B.7090502@grics.net> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 18:40:11 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] feeling ignernt ...and enjoying it :-) References: <002901c344d0$873b4280$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <002901c344d0$873b4280$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dang... and I was going to bring up the SCA-India list's new word for "the Ladies": Grapefruits! (Seeing pix of those period idealized Indian ladies in cholis would explain that better than I could. It's a very distinctive look.) Personally I enjoyed the party :-) Heather L Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Ladies, and gents.............. >Pheeeewwwwwwwwwww. >I am so sorry about the stupid things i said and the poor language i used >the other day. >The topic was so frisky, and i was tired after a long day at work, and i was >carried away about the frisky language. >As a matter of fact i had such a huge laugh that i actually poored myself an >xxxxl large gin, with no tonic and no ice. and i got carried away. >Please ladies and please gents. I hope you will forget the stupid things i >said...............(please) >Bjarne who has recovered again from that large gin. >Anyway it was ok to do, because i have a holliday now, and i finished the >dress..................... > >Bjarne > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 18:46:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68MkIHP005436 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:46:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68MhrsU017062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:43:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Mhp65021893; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:43:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4.mebtel.net [64.40.67.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Mhm65021852 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:43:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-71.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.71]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA64827C31 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:35:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F0B5719.4070507@grics.net> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 18:43:21 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Caraco jacket fantasy? References: <006c01c344d6$87ec5b50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <006c01c344d6$87ec5b50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, most people have fantasies about being able to make *anything* your way! Sorry not much help doc'ing accuracy... HL Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Anyway, ladies, gents. i would be very pleased to have some feed back of a >question 18th century. >I plan to make a lady a Caraco Jacket and a skirt. >I have made the corset to fit, very nice with horisontal bones over the >bust to make extra shape. What are the rules for a Caraco Jacket. Should >this follow the seams cf. side cb. or could a Caraco Jacket have a stomacher >front, laced and a gathered frill round the waistline to the center back? >Or is it like this example Janet Arnold shows in Patterns of Fashion where >there are pleats in the side and center back? >Is it possible to use a little fantasy to make a Caraco Jacket my way? > >Feed back much apreciated! > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 18:48:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Mm1HP005441 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:48:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68MjasU017296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:45:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68MjX65023203; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:45:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta05bw.bigpond.com (mta05bw.bigpond.com [144.135.24.153]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68Mi965022071 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:44:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clarke ([144.135.24.72]) by mta05bw.email.bigpond.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with SMTP id <0HHQ00FJR9RU5S@mta05bw.email.bigpond.com> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 08:43:07 +1000 (EST) Received: from cwpp-p-203-54-206-217.prem.tmns.net.au ([203.54.206.217]) by bwmam02.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2c 11/1367658); Wed, 09 Jul 2003 08:43:08 +0000 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 08:43:19 +1000 From: Claire Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: cote step-by-step (2) To: Historical Costume Message-id: <00d201c345a2$54d416f0$d9ce36cb@clarke> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <20030708155612.33745.qmail@web40912.mail.yahoo.com> X-DCC-MessageCare-Metrics: net.indra.com 1108; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tasha McGann" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 1:56 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: cote step-by-step (2) > Part 2 of my original attempted response to Robin's > comments: > ________ > > > maybe my fingers aren't strong > > enough > > I did mention that basting takes finger > muscles.... I know it sounds like a joke, but I've had > cramps from it. And, like you said, it would catch the > chemise if you basted with it on the body, so now I'm > wondering, how do you get really tight fits without > poking your models with pins?? That's something that I > certainly haven't perfected yet. > Um, mark the desired seam very very carefully (on both sides) and then take the whole thing off, baste and put it back on again. I do this all the time on me. I guess it's a bit harder if your model is standing around in the nuddy in the meantime. But they wouldn't be if you were doing it over a chemise. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 19:13:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68ND5HP005537 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:13:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68NAmsU020412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:10:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68NAjao011922; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:10:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h68NAdao011789 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:10:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id r.de.3b4f73d6 (3924); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:10:26 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:10:25 EDT To: elizabethanclothing@yahoogroups.com, h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] LJ codes all goney X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm out! See ya on LJ! -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 20:17:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h690HCHP005647 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:17:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h690DFsU026736 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:13:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h690DDM5019783; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:13:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h690DAM5019753 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:13:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (adsl-67-124-117-215.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [67.124.117.215]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h690D85R016538 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:13:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030708170640.00b2de50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:10:46 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Dawn Jacobson Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] New Web Sites X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is quick, but... Nicole, I love the new site, especially the time-travelling members of your group. Stephen also says you did a great job with PhotoShop. Tasha, wow! I feel like I just went to a class on gown construction. Your photo-essays are extremely good. Thanks! Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 20:20:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h690KCHP005655 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:20:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h690HdsU027026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:17:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h690HcM5022030; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:17:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h690HaM5022003 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:17:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-36-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.36.253])h690HXe2013154 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:17:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030708171556.04c6a990@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:17:04 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030708233755.029e5eb8@pop.ntlworld.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20030708151026.00e1ed90@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lynne Connolly writes, in a message sent 11:38 PM 7/8/03 +0100: >At 15:13 08/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: >>How tall was Queen Elizabeth I? What modern equivalent dress size was >>she? Davenport says a jacket of hers is in the Elizabeth Day McCormic >>collection in the Boston Fine Arts Museum, if that's any help (Davenport >>compares her size with that of a ten-year-old girl). There must be other >>garments of hers around, mustn't there? > >There's a wax effigy of her in the museum of Westminster Abbey. It was >used at her funeral, as was customary in those days. But I live in California, a few thousand miles from being able to go there and measure it. I was just wondering if anyone on the list knew how tall she was. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 20:35:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h690ZiHP005680 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:35:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h690XQsU028581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:33:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h690XOM5002205; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:33:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h690XMM5002126 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:33:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a244.in-tch.com [66.62.107.44]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h690EBb20333 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:14:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F0B6295.ABEAAC31@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 18:32:21 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS / KWAR Announcement References: <001801c34487$7795de10$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Are you done with your work for your doctorate? Do we get to celebrate? --sue Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > At 6:37 PM -0600 7/7/03, Sue Clemenger wrote: > >*snort* > >I have this image of a list-only competition, involving the fanciest > >embroidered "H" at KWCS.... > >--sue "just call me Hester" clemenger > > Funny ... I had exactly the same image! > > (I won't be there myself. Now that I'm job-hunting, I'm being even > _more_ careful about money than when it was just a matter of being in > school.) > > Heather > -- > ***** > Heather Rose Jones > hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu > ***** > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 20:50:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h690oaHP005701 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:50:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h690lisU029753 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:47:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h690lhM5009188; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:47:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h690leM5009085 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:47:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a244.in-tch.com [66.62.107.44]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h690SXb22830 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:28:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F0B65F4.B0EED9A8@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 18:46:44 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII References: <5B0303B8-B16C-11D7-BBD5-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Urk! They're awful. What *is* that, that Katherine of Aragon's supposed to be wearing? --sue Sarah wrote: > > I found PBS's website for the program: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/sixwives/ > > Okay, will you *look* at that god-awful excuse for head gear on the > ladies heads??? > > Alright. I promised myself I wasn't going to snark, but wow. That's > just depressingly bad. > > Sarah > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 20:51:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h690pZHP005704 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:51:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h690nJsU029895 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:49:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h690nJM5009953; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:49:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h690nGM5009936 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:49:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h690nGSH029394 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.32.4.36] (doeadpub148.LIPS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.4.36]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h690nCjN029296 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3F0B6295.ABEAAC31@in-tch.com> References: <001801c34487$7795de10$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> <3F0B6295.ABEAAC31@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:48:58 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS / KWAR Announcement Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 6:32 PM -0600 7/8/03, Sue Clemenger wrote: >Heather Rose Jones wrote: >> >> At 6:37 PM -0600 7/7/03, Sue Clemenger wrote: >> >*snort* >> >I have this image of a list-only competition, involving the fanciest >> >embroidered "H" at KWCS.... >> >--sue "just call me Hester" clemenger >> >> Funny ... I had exactly the same image! >> >> (I won't be there myself. Now that I'm job-hunting, I'm being even >> _more_ careful about money than when it was just a matter of being in > > school.) >Are you done with your work for your doctorate? Do we get to celebrate? > >--sue > I'm in the final editing stages of the dissertation. (Read: incorporating all the comments from my advisor, who tends to say ever-so-useful things like, "You should mention Smith's work on this topic." Just "Smith". Just "Smith's work". No first name. No date. No journal name or book title. Just "Smith". We've had a number of angsty go-rounds about this feedback style.) But the job hunt is proceeding because the university will give me no more TA work (nor student loans) so regardless of when the dissertation gets finally signed off, I need a job _now_. Actually, I needed a job last month. The frustrating thing is that there actually _are_ a fair number of editorial/writing jobs being advertised around here, I'm just not getting called back on any of the ones I'm applying for. Well, and then there was the company I had two interviews with and then they never contacted me back and ignored my follow-up phone messages and e-mails. I'm hoping that's an aberration. But hey, at least I made $30 on jury duty this week! Heather (will conjugate Hittite verbs for food) -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 21:36:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h691aBHP005786 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:36:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h691XpsU003812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:33:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h691XnbE000434; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:33:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h691XkbE000415 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:33:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-119-193-210.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.119.193.210 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2003 01:33:46 -0000 Message-ID: <01a001c345ba$2313f550$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20030708151026.00e1ed90@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:33:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a black & white image of that jacket in a catalog from the Boston MFA, but unfortunately it doesn't give any dimensions! - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 22:04:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69248HP005835 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:04:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6921tsU005888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:01:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6921pno013198; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:01:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11408.mail.yahoo.com (web11408.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.238]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6921ono013185 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:01:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030709020150.74076.qmail@web11408.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.184] by web11408.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 19:01:50 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:01:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <7AFDE93B-B176-11D7-935C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO yeah, but who needs tv with all those hunky men in san fran! Jeff --- Heather Meadows wrote: > and in this city (San Francisco) you can't get a single channel > without paying for cable because of all the interference! > > .heather. > > (therefore, doesn't have PBS either. thank goodness > for Netflix) > > > On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 11:46 AM, Jeff Brainard wrote: > > > Yeah, here in BFE, Montana, PBS _is_ a cable channel. I > > know...ugh...can't wait to move back to a city. > > > > J. > > > > > > --- Sarah wrote: > >> Actually, this program is on PBS. Check http://www.pbs.org for > times > >> > >> in your area. :) > >> > >> Sarah > >> > >> On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 10:36 AM, Jeff Brainard wrote: > >> > >>> OOH. I've not got cable. Anybody recording it? > >>> > >>> Jeff > >>> > >>> > >>> --- Ailith Mackintosh wrote: > >>>> Greetings. > >>>> > >>>> On July 16 and 23, PBS will be airing a 2 part documentary on > The > >> Six > >>>> Wives of Henry VIII from the wives' points of view. Is this the > >> one > >>>> that was broadcast a while back in the UK? Dr. David Starkey is > >> the > >>>> host. > >>>> > >>>> kate > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> h-costume mailing list > >>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >>> > >>> > >>> __________________________________ > >>> Do you Yahoo!? > >>> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > >>> http://sbc.yahoo.com > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> h-costume mailing list > >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >>> > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> h-costume mailing list > >> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > http://search.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 22:05:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6925qHP005839 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:05:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6923SsU006027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:03:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6923Rno013959; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:03:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6921wno013234 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:01:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip25.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.25]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 813BB6DCE2 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:01:55 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 19:01:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII Message-ID: <3F0B1518.26882.10CE12B0@localhost> Priority: normal References: <20030708173632.33740.qmail@web11401.mail.yahoo.com> In-reply-to: <5B0303B8-B16C-11D7-BBD5-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-DCC-SPAMCHECK.NET-Metrics: net.indra.com 1168; From=1 Message-ID=1 Received=1 Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I found PBS's website for the program: > http://www.pbs.org/wnet/sixwives/ > > Okay, will you *look* at that god-awful excuse for head gear on the > ladies heads??? Did they get them from the same rental house that seems to provide so many hats? I still remember seeing the same awful French Hood from Anne of a Thousand Days in one of the old "Six Wives of Henry VIII" episodes. It was beaded or embroidered and looked like something from Victorian times (with the jet beaded purses although this one was gold and white.) People keep showing me that and saying "see, you can embroider/bead French Hoods" as if *that* were documentation. "But BBC always does such a good job on documentation, it has to be right." Yeah, sure. >From what I can find they were made of gold work as in jewellery work, not gold work as in beading/embroidering. All of the references in the Inventories of King Henry VIII were obviously jewellery work. However, if someone has inventory or extant object documentation for embroidery/beadwork on French Hoods, I'd like to see it. Always looking for more solid information on the things! (That and gabled hoods, especially from the c.1540 time period.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 22:07:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6927MHP005848 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:07:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6924usU006163 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:04:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6924tno014821; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:04:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law15-f29.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.23.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69224no013243 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:02:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:01:59 -0700 Received: from 209.179.194.48 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 02:01:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.179.194.48] X-Originating-Email: [anne_fairchild@hotmail.com] From: "Anne Fairchild" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 02:01:57 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jul 2003 02:01:59.0044 (UTC) FILETIME=[14BB7C40:01C345BE] Subject: [h-cost] Help on late 18th-early 19th C undergarments X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sincere thanks to all who have responded to my query! Jessica, taking a peek on Amazon.com, the book definitely looks as if it's worth ordering, and reasonably priced too. Thanks also to Bjarne, and to both Ann's and Kate's descriptions and background. If I'm understanding correctly - it wasn't common or considered necessary for the average man to wear under-drawers beneath their breeches/trousers, but the gentry, the nobility, military officers, etc., likely would, fabric to be determined by their finances? And the colder the climate, the more necessary they'd be considered? Sound about right? Thanks again to all. Anne _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 22:18:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692IgHP005868 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:18:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692GGsU006900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:16:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692GFno020021; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:16:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11402.mail.yahoo.com (web11402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h692GDno019997 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:16:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030709021613.66148.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.184] by web11402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 19:16:13 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:16:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] fabric stores and men X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's one for you to stew over: I (at least for the present) work at a fabric store, only recently, and have noticed in the 3 weeks or month that I've been there that there's this really wierd gender dynamic about a guy working at a fabric store, with the customers and the workers. It's really really messed up in this case enough that I'm talking to a lawyer, but have any of you ever noticed a "ew. there's a MAN in the FABRIC STORE" reaction from a lot of stitch bitches? I've noticed it as being a customer in some stores, but never took note of it until now. Sorry, I'm snarky and tweaked out right now with that and other things and my palm pilot (subtext there reads "LIFE") dumped after the batteries got knocked loose by a nameless person and I'm in a little crisis. Lemme know what you guys think. Bjarne? Jeff __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 22:21:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692LlHP005877 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:21:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692ILsU007071 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:18:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692ILno021036; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:18:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692Huno020788 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:17:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail20.ureach.com (mail20.ureach.com [172.16.2.80]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20315 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:17:56 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-223-181.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.223.181]) by mail20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA20310 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:17:55 -0400 Message-ID: <000701c345bf$b440edd0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20030708151026.00e1ed90@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20030708171556.04c6a990@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:13:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not the best of sources, I know.... but I found two references to her height. One said 5'3"-5'5" (an Elizabeth bio page with no sources given) and the other said 5'4" (a genetics page with no source for the info given). Hope it helps a little! Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? > Lynne Connolly writes, in a message sent 11:38 PM 7/8/03 +0100: > >At 15:13 08/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >>How tall was Queen Elizabeth I? What modern equivalent dress size was > >>she? Davenport says a jacket of hers is in the Elizabeth Day McCormic > >>collection in the Boston Fine Arts Museum, if that's any help (Davenport > >>compares her size with that of a ten-year-old girl). There must be other > >>garments of hers around, mustn't there? > > > >There's a wax effigy of her in the museum of Westminster Abbey. It was > >used at her funeral, as was customary in those days. > > But I live in California, a few thousand miles from being able to go there > and measure it. I was just wondering if anyone on the list knew how tall > she was. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 22:26:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692QsHP005885 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:26:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692OOsU007580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:24:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692ONno023946; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:24:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692OLno023933 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:24:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from karen (CPE-65-26-82-7.kc.rr.com [65.26.82.7]) h692OK5T008644 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:24:20 -0500 (CDT) From: "Talia" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] fabric stores and men Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:24:05 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: <20030709021613.66148.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gosh...I know I wouldn't give a second thought to a guy working in a fabric store...I for one know that my guy is better at color matching and selection than I'll ever be! Talia > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Jeff Brainard > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:16 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] fabric stores and men > > > Here's one for you to stew over: I (at least for the present) work at a > fabric store, only recently, and have noticed in the 3 weeks or month > that I've been there that there's this really wierd gender dynamic > about a guy working at a fabric store, with the customers and the > workers. It's really really messed up in this case enough that I'm > talking to a lawyer, but have any of you ever noticed a "ew. there's a > MAN in the FABRIC STORE" reaction from a lot of stitch bitches? I've > noticed it as being a customer in some stores, but never took note of > it until now. Sorry, I'm snarky and tweaked out right now with that and > other things and my palm pilot (subtext there reads "LIFE") dumped > after the batteries got knocked loose by a nameless person and I'm in a > little crisis. Lemme know what you guys think. Bjarne? > > Jeff > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > http://search.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 22:28:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692SQHP005888 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:28:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692JpsU007203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:19:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692Jpno021705; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:19:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692Jino021640 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:19:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail20.ureach.com (mail20.ureach.com [172.16.2.80]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20483 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:19:44 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-223-181.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.223.181]) by mail20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA20479 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:19:44 -0400 Message-ID: <000801c345bf$f4fce3b0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:15:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One other thing, the genetics page said that her height of 5'4" was "strikingly tall" for her time period. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? > Not the best of sources, I know.... but I found two references to her > height. One said 5'3"-5'5" (an Elizabeth bio page with no sources given) and > the other said 5'4" (a genetics page with no source for the info given). > > Hope it helps a little! > > Teena > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:17 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? > > > > Lynne Connolly writes, in a message sent 11:38 PM 7/8/03 +0100: > > >At 15:13 08/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: > > >>How tall was Queen Elizabeth I? What modern equivalent dress size was > > >>she? Davenport says a jacket of hers is in the Elizabeth Day McCormic > > >>collection in the Boston Fine Arts Museum, if that's any help (Davenport > > >>compares her size with that of a ten-year-old girl). There must be > other > > >>garments of hers around, mustn't there? > > > > > >There's a wax effigy of her in the museum of Westminster Abbey. It was > > >used at her funeral, as was customary in those days. > > > > But I live in California, a few thousand miles from being able to go there > > and measure it. I was just wondering if anyone on the list knew how tall > > she was. > > > > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > > www.FunStuft.com > > > > //// \\\ > > ////-@@\\\ > > (((( 7 ))) > > ((( <> )))) > > ) (((((( > > /----\ /---\)) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 22:36:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692a7HP005898 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:36:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692XosU008353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:33:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692Xnno028409; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:33:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20206.mail.yahoo.com (web20206.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h692Xmno028394 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:33:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030709023347.32525.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.150.60.98] by web20206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 19:33:47 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:33:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Angela Kovatch Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores and men To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20030709021613.66148.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My DH, who goes to the fabric store with me rather frequently, sometimes even shopping for himself, says he's noticed a little of this, but actually kind of likes it--if he wants to just browse, no one bothers him (actualy, I can't recall any instance of agressive sales myself, in a fabric store, so I don't know whether that's meaningful), and if he wants to ask a question, he still gets service. But he's never worked in a fabric store. Sorry to hear you're having a bad experience. -Angela --- Jeff Brainard wrote: > Here's one for you to stew over: I (at least for the > present) work at a > fabric store, only recently, and have noticed in the > 3 weeks or month > that I've been there that there's this really wierd > gender dynamic > about a guy working at a fabric store, with the > customers and the > workers. It's really really messed up in this case > enough that I'm > talking to a lawyer, but have any of you ever > noticed a "ew. there's a > MAN in the FABRIC STORE" reaction from a lot of > stitch bitches? I've > noticed it as being a customer in some stores, but > never took note of > it until now. Sorry, I'm snarky and tweaked out > right now with that and > other things and my palm pilot (subtext there reads > "LIFE") dumped > after the batteries got knocked loose by a nameless > person and I'm in a > little crisis. Lemme know what you guys think. > Bjarne? > > Jeff > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > http://search.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 22:39:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692dMHP005906 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:39:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692ausU008559 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:36:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692atno029775; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:36:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692aqno029750 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:36:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-217.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.217]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C8202F932 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:37:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:36:49 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030709020150.74076.qmail@web11408.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <3125D340-B1B6-11D7-935C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ha! You'd love where I live... it's the "gay ghetto" just north of the Castro, and I do often just sit at my front window and people watch. I'm one of only two female types that live on my block - the rest are hunky men. .heather. On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 07:01 PM, Jeff Brainard wrote: > yeah, but who needs tv with all those hunky men in san fran! > > Jeff > > > --- Heather Meadows wrote: >> and in this city (San Francisco) you can't get a single channel >> without paying for cable because of all the interference! >> >> .heather. >> >> (therefore, doesn't have PBS either. thank goodness >> for Netflix) >> >> >> On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 11:46 AM, Jeff Brainard wrote: >> >>> Yeah, here in BFE, Montana, PBS _is_ a cable channel. I >>> know...ugh...can't wait to move back to a city. >>> >>> J. >>> >>> >>> --- Sarah wrote: >>>> Actually, this program is on PBS. Check http://www.pbs.org for >> times >>>> >>>> in your area. :) >>>> >>>> Sarah >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 10:36 AM, Jeff Brainard wrote: >>>> >>>>> OOH. I've not got cable. Anybody recording it? >>>>> >>>>> Jeff >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- Ailith Mackintosh wrote: >>>>>> Greetings. >>>>>> >>>>>> On July 16 and 23, PBS will be airing a 2 part documentary on >> The >>>> Six >>>>>> Wives of Henry VIII from the wives' points of view. Is this the >>>> one >>>>>> that was broadcast a while back in the UK? Dr. David Starkey is >>>> the >>>>>> host. >>>>>> >>>>>> kate >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> h-costume mailing list >>>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __________________________________ >>>>> Do you Yahoo!? >>>>> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >>>>> http://sbc.yahoo.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> h-costume mailing list >>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> h-costume mailing list >>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >>> >>> __________________________________ >>> Do you Yahoo!? >>> The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. >>> http://search.yahoo.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 22:47:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692l4HP005923 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:47:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692iasU009306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:44:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692iZno003598; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:44:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692iWno003536 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:44:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.18.32924b10 (16099) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:44:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-m19.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.135]) by air-id11.mx.aol.com (v94.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID113-3ee33f0b81863db; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:44:23 -0400 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:44:22 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: RE: [h-cost] fabric stores and men MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7AC3F675.6C8077BB.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A man in a fabric store? I think that's as great as a guy that does laundry, dishes, or changes diapers. Every male reenactor should be able to sew! Of course, I've recently been scarred by the experience of fitting my husband for woolen hose: "Stop that. Quit doing that, you're messing up the fit. Well, I'm not doing anything, just moving the fabric around!" Thank God I made a pattern. :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 22:49:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692nSHP005938 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:49:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692khsU009533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:46:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692kgno004685; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:46:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692jBno003860 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:45:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200307090245.h692jBno003860@net.indra.com> Received: from mtiwebc37 (unknown[204.127.135.76]) by mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <2003070902450511100sih2oe>; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 02:45:05 +0000 Received: from [24.92.178.69] by mtiwebc37; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 02:45:04 +0000 From: sewinggoddess@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores and men Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 02:45:04 +0000 X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jun 27 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: c2V3aW5nZ29kZGVzc0BhdHQubmV0 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, in the fabric store I work in we have three guys, one of whom is a black gentleman that the customers come to see from all over town because he went to our local fashion academy and he has, as the customers say, such a great sense of style! I've never seen him stumped by a sewing question yet. And the color combinations and pattern choices he makes are jsut to DIE for! I can't say enough good things about him. Oh that reminds me, I have to bring him some spiral steel boning in so he can play with it for these corsets he's playing with constructing..... Crissy > Here's one for you to stew over: I (at least for the present) work at a > fabric store, only recently, and have noticed in the 3 weeks or month > that I've been there that there's this really wierd gender dynamic > about a guy working at a fabric store, with the customers and the > workers. It's really really messed up in this case enough that I'm > talking to a lawyer, but have any of you ever noticed a "ew. there's a > MAN in the FABRIC STORE" reaction from a lot of stitch bitches? I've > noticed it as being a customer in some stores, but never took note of > it until now. Sorry, I'm snarky and tweaked out right now with that and > other things and my palm pilot (subtext there reads "LIFE") dumped > after the batteries got knocked loose by a nameless person and I'm in a > little crisis. Lemme know what you guys think. Bjarne? > > Jeff > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > http://search.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 22:55:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692tNHP005954 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:55:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692rHsU010224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:53:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692rGno008165; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:53:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692rEnp008157 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:53:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.8/Submit) id h692rE95008155 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:53:14 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:53:14 -0600 From: Elizabeth Lear To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <20030709025314.GA5185@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] list admin announcement X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry I haven't been available for admin concerns, but ... I would like to announce the arrival of my son, born at 3:45am on 7/5. He weighed 8 lbs., 14 oz., and was 20" long. His Apgar scores were 9 and 10. Name will be announced at the Bris on Sunday. ...eliz -- "The decision to have a child is to accept that your heart will forever walk about outside of your body" - Katharine Hadley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 22:57:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692vLHP005959 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:57:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692sssU010377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:54:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692srno008920; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:54:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h692sQno008701 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:54:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail20.ureach.com (mail20.ureach.com [172.16.2.80]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA29421 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:54:26 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-223-181.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.223.181]) by mail20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA29417 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:54:26 -0400 Message-ID: <000801c345c4$cdc174a0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores and men Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:50:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wouldn't think twice about a man working in a fabric store any more than I would balk at a woman working in a hardware store. The fabric store where I mainly shop has about 3 or 4 men working there (roughly 1/3 of the staff). In fact, I generally search a particular one out when I have a question as he seems to be the most knowledgeable. My husband usually goes with me when I am fabric shopping and as I am usually looking for something specific, he helps me look. He is getting quite good at knowing what the different fabrics are, by the way. :) I asked him and he said he doesn't feel uncomfortable at all nor has anyone looked at him askance. Teena > > -----Original Message----- > > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > > Behalf Of Jeff Brainard > > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:16 PM > > To: Historical Costume > > Subject: [h-cost] fabric stores and men > > > > > > Here's one for you to stew over: I (at least for the present) work at a > > fabric store, only recently, and have noticed in the 3 weeks or month > > that I've been there that there's this really wierd gender dynamic > > about a guy working at a fabric store, with the customers and the > > workers. It's really really messed up in this case enough that I'm > > talking to a lawyer, but have any of you ever noticed a "ew. there's a > > MAN in the FABRIC STORE" reaction from a lot of stitch bitches? I've > > noticed it as being a customer in some stores, but never took note of > > it until now. Sorry, I'm snarky and tweaked out right now with that and > > other things and my palm pilot (subtext there reads "LIFE") dumped > > after the batteries got knocked loose by a nameless person and I'm in a > > little crisis. Lemme know what you guys think. Bjarne? > > > > Jeff _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 23:03:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6933rHP005970 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:03:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69315sU010891 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:01:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69314NZ011887; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:01:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law8-oe59.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69312NZ011839 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:01:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:00:57 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by law8-oe59.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 03:00:57 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030709021613.66148.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores and men Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:01:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jul 2003 03:00:57.0496 (UTC) FILETIME=[51D06980:01C345C6] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I can tell you that *my* reaction to a guy working in a fabric store is generally to go to him instead of one of the ladies. If he's working in a fabric store, I figure he has more of a chance of knowing a bit about fabrics, rather than a woman that was chosen for the job "because women know about these things". I think it's pretty cool, actually. But it always depends on your own environment. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Brainard" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 10:16 PM Subject: [h-cost] fabric stores and men > Here's one for you to stew over: I (at least for the present) work at a > fabric store, only recently, and have noticed in the 3 weeks or month > that I've been there that there's this really wierd gender dynamic > about a guy working at a fabric store, with the customers and the > workers. It's really really messed up in this case enough that I'm > talking to a lawyer, but have any of you ever noticed a "ew. there's a > MAN in the FABRIC STORE" reaction from a lot of stitch bitches? I've > noticed it as being a customer in some stores, but never took note of > it until now. Sorry, I'm snarky and tweaked out right now with that and > other things and my palm pilot (subtext there reads "LIFE") dumped > after the batteries got knocked loose by a nameless person and I'm in a > little crisis. Lemme know what you guys think. Bjarne? > > Jeff > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > http://search.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 23:05:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6935qHP005976 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:05:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6933SsU011057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:03:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6933SNZ012815; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:03:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6933PNZ012773 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:03:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r4p26.directcon.net [206.170.184.75]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h6934Qk02707; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:04:26 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030708200509.0110c560@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 20:05:09 -0700 To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] list admin announcement In-Reply-To: <20030709025314.GA5185@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Congratulations! that's wonderful news! Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 23:15:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693F4HP006010 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:15:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693CnsU011772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:12:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693ClNZ017157; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:12:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693CjNZ017136 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:12:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-217.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.217]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87C852F930 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:13:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:12:39 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] list admin announcement Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030709025314.GA5185@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <327F863A-B1BB-11D7-935C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh congratulations! On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 07:53 PM, Elizabeth Lear wrote: > Sorry I haven't been available for admin concerns, but ... > > I would like to announce the arrival of my son, born at 3:45am on 7/5. > He weighed 8 lbs., 14 oz., and was 20" long. His Apgar scores were 9 > and 10. Name will be announced at the Bris on Sunday. > > ...eliz > > > -- > "The decision to have a child is to accept that your heart will > forever walk about outside of your body" - Katharine Hadley > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 23:17:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693HpHP006014 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:17:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693FVsU012053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:15:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693FUNZ018459; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:15:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693FRNZ018429 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:15:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-171.75.226.89.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.226.89] helo=Dan) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19a5QU-00070w-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 23:15:26 -0400 Message-ID: <02f301c345c8$89e0e960$f1c34bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030709021613.66148.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores and men Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:16:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Where is this store located? In a large metropolitan area or more rural. I work part-time for Hancock's and we have no problem with male customer's per se. Is it your co-workers or the clientel you're getting this reaction from. Our female customer's really seemed to enjoy having a male clerk waiting on them the few times we had one. Genie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Brainard" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:16 PM Subject: [h-cost] fabric stores and men > Here's one for you to stew over: I (at least for the present) work at a > fabric store, only recently, and have noticed in the 3 weeks or month > that I've been there that there's this really wierd gender dynamic > about a guy working at a fabric store, with the customers and the > workers. It's really really messed up in this case enough that I'm > talking to a lawyer, but have any of you ever noticed a "ew. there's a > MAN in the FABRIC STORE" reaction from a lot of stitch bitches? I've > noticed it as being a customer in some stores, but never took note of > it until now. Sorry, I'm snarky and tweaked out right now with that and > other things and my palm pilot (subtext there reads "LIFE") dumped > after the batteries got knocked loose by a nameless person and I'm in a > little crisis. Lemme know what you guys think. Bjarne? > > Jeff > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > http://search.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 23:20:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693KLHP006019 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:20:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693HusU012309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:17:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693HtNZ019724; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:17:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693HqNZ019716 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:17:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-171.75.226.89.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.226.89] helo=Dan) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19a5So-0005Mw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 23:17:50 -0400 Message-ID: <02fb01c345c8$dfb71800$f1c34bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c345bf$f4fce3b0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:19:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I remember a comment about height even in Victorian era a streetwalker named Long Meg was 5'4", this was considered tall for a female. Genie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? > One other thing, the genetics page said that her height of 5'4" was > "strikingly tall" for her time period. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beteena Paradise" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 10:13 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? > > > > Not the best of sources, I know.... but I found two references to her > > height. One said 5'3"-5'5" (an Elizabeth bio page with no sources given) > and > > the other said 5'4" (a genetics page with no source for the info given). > > > > Hope it helps a little! > > > > Teena > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:17 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? > > > > > > > Lynne Connolly writes, in a message sent 11:38 PM 7/8/03 +0100: > > > >At 15:13 08/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: > > > >>How tall was Queen Elizabeth I? What modern equivalent dress size was > > > >>she? Davenport says a jacket of hers is in the Elizabeth Day McCormic > > > >>collection in the Boston Fine Arts Museum, if that's any help > (Davenport > > > >>compares her size with that of a ten-year-old girl). There must be > > other > > > >>garments of hers around, mustn't there? > > > > > > > >There's a wax effigy of her in the museum of Westminster Abbey. It was > > > >used at her funeral, as was customary in those days. > > > > > > But I live in California, a few thousand miles from being able to go > there > > > and measure it. I was just wondering if anyone on the list knew how > tall > > > she was. > > > > > > > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > > > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > > > www.FunStuft.com > > > > > > //// \\\ > > > ////-@@\\\ > > > (((( 7 ))) > > > ((( <> )))) > > > ) (((((( > > > /----\ /---\)) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 23:23:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693NIHP006037 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:23:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693L6sU012592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:21:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693L5NZ021213; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:21:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693IpNZ020212 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:18:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com (CPE-65-30-107-115.kc.rr.com [65.30.107.115])h693Io5U006578 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:18:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030708222408.00a0db40@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:25:20 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] list admin announcement In-Reply-To: <20030709025314.GA5185@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fantastic! Congratulations! Sheryl Nance-Durst At 08:53 PM 7/8/03 -0600, you wrote: >Sorry I haven't been available for admin concerns, but ... > >I would like to announce the arrival of my son, born at 3:45am on 7/5. >He weighed 8 lbs., 14 oz., and was 20" long. His Apgar scores were 9 >and 10. Name will be announced at the Bris on Sunday. > > ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 23:29:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693TvHP006052 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:29:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693RisU013050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:27:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693RhNZ024203; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:27:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693RcNa024153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:27:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h693Rbbh001625 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:27:37 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h693RbDS001623 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:27:37 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:27:36 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <4.3.1.2.20030708151026.00e1ed90@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030708151026.00e1ed90@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307082327.36900.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 08 July 2003 06:13 pm, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > How tall was Queen Elizabeth I? What modern equivalent dress size was > she? Davenport says a jacket of hers is in the Elizabeth Day McCormic > collection in the Boston Fine Arts Museum, if that's any help (Davenport > compares her size with that of a ten-year-old girl). There must be other > garments of hers around, mustn't there? I don't know. I seem to remember reading somewhere that she was 5 ft. 3 in. tall, but I can't remember where I got that tidbit from or what the source of the information was. -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 23:30:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693UQHP006058 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:30:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693SEsU013104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:28:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693SENZ024448; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:28:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693SANa024420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:28:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h693SAbh001640 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:28:10 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h693SAIH001638 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:28:10 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] list admin announcement Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:28:09 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <327F863A-B1BB-11D7-935C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> In-Reply-To: <327F863A-B1BB-11D7-935C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307082328.09858.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 08 July 2003 11:12 pm, Heather Meadows wrote: > Oh congratulations! > > On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 07:53 PM, Elizabeth Lear wrote: > > Sorry I haven't been available for admin concerns, but ... > > > > I would like to announce the arrival of my son, born at 3:45am on 7/5. > > He weighed 8 lbs., 14 oz., and was 20" long. His Apgar scores were 9 > > and 10. Name will be announced at the Bris on Sunday. Congratulations! -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 23:34:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693YrHP006064 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:34:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693WgsU013443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:32:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693WfNZ026524; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:32:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693WcNa026507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:32:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h693Wbbh001769 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:32:38 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h693WbA0001767 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:32:37 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] feeling ignernt ...and enjoying it :-) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:32:37 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <002901c344d0$873b4280$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3F0B565B.7090502@grics.net> In-Reply-To: <3F0B565B.7090502@grics.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307082332.37450.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 08 July 2003 07:40 pm, H. Law wrote: > Dang... and I was going to bring up the SCA-India list's new word for > "the Ladies": Grapefruits! (Seeing pix of those period idealized > Indian ladies in cholis would explain that better than I could. It's a > very distinctive look.) I know women with grapefruits. However, I only have strawberries. Small strawberries at that, too. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 23:42:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693g5HP006078 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:42:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693dbsU013922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:39:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693daNZ029500; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:39:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40805.mail.yahoo.com (web40805.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.182]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h693dXNZ029445 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:39:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030709033928.42791.qmail@web40805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.229.184.44] by web40805.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 20:39:28 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:39:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Cynthia Corley To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] re:announcement X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Congratulations and Mazel Tov! May he bring you much joy! Cynthia ===== An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Gandhi __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 23:42:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693grHP006082 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:42:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693egsU014007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:40:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693efNZ000218; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:40:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693e0NZ029679 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p89-max20.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.118.161.219] by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19a5oD-00058L-00; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:39:57 +1200 Message-ID: <00c001c345cb$c349b0d0$dba176cb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002901c344d0$873b4280$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><3F0B565B.7090502@grics.net> <200307082332.37450.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] feeling ignernt ...and enjoying it :-) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:39:54 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Dang... and I was going to bring up the SCA-India list's new word for > > "the Ladies": Grapefruits! (Seeing pix of those period idealized > > Indian ladies in cholis would explain that better than I could. It's a > > very distinctive look.) > I know women with grapefruits. > However, I only have strawberries. Small strawberries at that, too. :-) Or to quote from Bend it like Beckham: "Mosquito bites" for me;) As opposed to "juicy juicy mangoes";) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 8 23:56:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693u5HP006102 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:56:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693rosU015011 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:53:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h693rnNZ006173; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:53:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h693rlNZ006161 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:53:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-118-212-17.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@67.118.212.17 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2003 03:53:47 -0000 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:53:38 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <000701c345bf$b440edd0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 07:13 PM, Beteena Paradise wrote: > Not the best of sources, I know.... but I found two references to her > height. One said 5'3"-5'5" (an Elizabeth bio page with no sources > given) and > the other said 5'4" (a genetics page with no source for the info > given). I'd always heard the "taller than average" bit, but considering "average" in the 16th century was about 5 feet tall, this gives a lot of room for anyone's guess. I always imagined her to be around 5'6, for some reason, but this is just me. I know that Mary, Queen of Scots was as tall as the average man at that time (Alison Weir put her at 6 feet tall, but I'll have to check the source she used for that) and there is a famous reference to Elizabeth's conversation with James Melville about Mary being "too tall" (the assumption being that Elizabeth was "just right"). Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 00:04:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6944SHP006129 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 00:04:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69422sU015601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69421ds009806; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6941wds009777 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:01:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p89-max20.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.118.161.219] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19a69T-0006eX-00; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 16:01:55 +1200 Message-ID: <00c101c345ce$d78f2d10$dba176cb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5B0303B8-B16C-11D7-BBD5-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> <3F0B65F4.B0EED9A8@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:01:56 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] experiments in lacing my kirtle X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is an attempt to rewrite what I lost as all my mail got deleted just at the same time as the problems with the h-cost mail server. This might be better illustrated with a step by step comparisson thing, though as recently seen people tend to take these things as either an usurpation of someone elses work, or the new and only way to go about something;) And it's not. We all have different body types, and they have different needs. I just found a way that works for me. Having tried simply putting my side laced kirtle on and lacing in standing up, mostly through necessity as I was in a rush and hadn't tested the outfit before, I decided there had to be a better way of wearing the thing. People suggested the lie on the floor method, without realising I was talking about a side laced outfit, and indeed a finished garment. I am not trying to fit my kirtle, just find a better way to get into it. So I tested lying down and also my idea of using what I know is advised with putting a bra on, the lean forward and fit in place;) I tested each several times, seeing if there was any way to better, or find faults with both methods and found for me lying down was not of benefit, but the leaning forward was. As it probably should be: I really ought to know what works for my own body by now having lived in it for more than twenty *mumble* years. Lying down made things go simply too far outwards, and flattened even more than normal. Which might have been fine if the kirtle laced/buttoned up the front, but it didn't, the laces are at the sides which means there is no room to manouvre. This is beacuse when one lies down one fills out a garment more than when one stands up. With a fitted garment this leaves no room to move about, even beofre being finished with lacing. And being laced at the sides rather than the front, the only way to get under the kirtle was through the neckline, which is not at all helpful. When I then stood up I was very uncomfortable, it felt like the pressure was pushing down, and was more pronounced than when I had simply laced the kirtle together. This may not be the same for anyone else, as I said it's all about how *my* body works. Not just size but also shape and physiological factors. As I said I tried this several times, with no improvement. So I tried standing and leaning forward and then pulling the laces taut. The leaning forward had the useful effect of lifting and bringing the bosom together, which as it is may not be completely the ideal of the time, but it does lead to a final result that is. Leaning forward also meant there was room through the neck opening to move the shift and to make sure everything was stable and in place. So having laced the top half to fit, I was able to pull the laces at the bottom and then take stock of what had happened. As I stood up, things were able to shift a bit due to gravity and actually found a good lift and support and did not look all squished up and like I was trying to achieve cleavage, but there was shape and best of all it was comfortable. I think a series of photos might be useful.. and further experimentation of course (seeig whether lacing over different types of shift etc change things)... and it might be helpful for others who have the same problems to try new ways to dress. And it might even give someone an idea totally unrelated, the way tips on this list have often helped me;) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 00:09:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6949nHP006153 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 00:09:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6947asU015939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:07:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6947Zds012245; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:07:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from stanford.loosefoot.com (stanford.loosefoot.com [207.195.54.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6947Sds012171 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:07:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bernie.loosefoot.com (bernie.loosefoot.com [207.195.54.243]) by stanford.loosefoot.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6A49B164EC2 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:07:27 -0600 (CST) Received: (qmail 2974 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2003 04:07:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mabion.spublofe.com) (12.246.76.5) by bernie.loosefoot.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2003 04:07:26 -0000 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20030708210303.00a4dec0@pop3.lfchosting.com> X-Sender: mabse/spublofe.com@pop3.lfchosting.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:06:13 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones In-Reply-To: <200307090217.h692Honq020745@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] gender issues X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:17 PM 7/8/2003 -0600, you wrote: >Here's one for you to stew over: I (at least for the present) work at a >fabric store, only recently, and have noticed in the 3 weeks or month >that I've been there that there's this really wierd gender dynamic >about a guy working at a fabric store, with the customers and the >workers. It's really really messed up in this case enough that I'm >talking to a lawyer, but have any of you ever noticed a "ew. there's a >MAN in the FABRIC STORE" reaction from a lot of stitch bitches? I've >noticed it as being a customer in some stores, but never took note of >it until now. Sorry, I'm snarky and tweaked out right now with that and >other things and my palm pilot (subtext there reads "LIFE") dumped >after the batteries got knocked loose by a nameless person and I'm in a >little crisis. Lemme know what you guys think. Bjarne? > >Jeff Sorry this is happening to you. It isn't right regardless of the circumstances. If you are competent at what you do (and if we compare you to a lot of the women working in fabric stores, that isn't always very difficult comparatively), then no one should care about anything else about you. Good luck, I hope that it works out. maryann _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 00:12:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h694CvHP006160 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 00:12:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h694AfsU016158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:10:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h694Aeds013701; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:10:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h694Acds013641 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:10:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h694Bojp025709 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:11:51 -0700 Message-ID: <3F0B9508.60101@misc.com> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:07:36 -0700 From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Web Sites References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030708170640.00b2de50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To Nicole- Where's the time-travelling feature? Will my Netscape/iMac not allow it to work or show up? Thanks for your time, Theresa Eacker > Nicole, I love the new site, especially the time-travelling members of > your group. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 01:03:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6953JHP006283 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:03:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6950fsU019886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:00:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6950dFm007998; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:00:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web9405.mail.yahoo.com (web9405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6950TFm007926 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:00:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030709050028.94061.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.153] by web9405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:00:28 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:00:28 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] list admin announcement To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20030709025314.GA5185@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Congrats, Eliz!! Cheers and Best--- Albra Elizabeth Lear wrote: Sorry I haven't been available for admin concerns, but ... I would like to announce the arrival of my son, born at 3:45am on 7/5. He weighed 8 lbs., 14 oz., and was 20" long. His Apgar scores were 9 and 10. Name will be announced at the Bris on Sunday. ...eliz -- "The decision to have a child is to accept that your heart will forever walk about outside of your body" - Katharine Hadley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 01:15:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695FEHP006294 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:15:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695CbsU020703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:12:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695CaFm013606; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:12:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695CWFm013561 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:12:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p212-nas1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.210.212] by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19a7Fm-0000eX-00; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:12:31 +1200 Message-ID: <001b01c345d8$b2d19d00$d4d2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030709050028.94061.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] list admin announcement Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:12:29 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I would like to announce the arrival of my son, born at 3:45am on 7/5. > He weighed 8 lbs., 14 oz., and was 20" long. His Apgar scores were 9 > and 10. Name will be announced at the Bris on Sunday. Congratulations:) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 01:18:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695IJHP006298 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:18:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695FqsU020974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:15:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695FpFm015094; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:15:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gpvissmtpgw02.splitrock.net (gpvissmtpgw01.splitrock.net [63.254.138.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h695FnFm015072 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:15:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 8073 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2003 05:15:48 -0000 Received: from 207-191-202-36.cpe.ats.mcleodusa.net (HELO computer) (207.191.202.36) by gpvissmtpgw01.splitrock.net with SMTP; 9 Jul 2003 05:15:48 -0000 Message-ID: <014e01c345d9$5dcad6e0$24cabfcf@ats.mcleodusa.net> From: "Avien" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030709021613.66148.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores and men Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 00:17:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, I've heard a lot saying that this isn't the case for them so I just had to say that you're not the only one! My husband gets it all the time when he goes in there. All the women clerks are asking him how he got roped into coming in with me when really we're picking out stuff for him. The few times I've made him go pick stuff up for me, they ask him continuously if he's sure and maybe he should wait until his wife can come in with him. While he doesn't sew a lot, he prolly knows more than the clerks there. Then again, I just really hate my local store. They've asked me several times to bring my mom in before buying that fabric, and how dare I even consider to wash wool in the washing machine, and am I sure that I really need more than five yards of this fabric, and... Needless to say, I will travel 45 minutes to go to the next closest store rather than hitting the one that is 15 minutes away at most. They may still question my husband at times but they are much nicer about it and don't make him argue for five minutes before cutting the fabric. Avien ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Brainard" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:16 PM Subject: [h-cost] fabric stores and men > Here's one for you to stew over: I (at least for the present) work at a > fabric store, only recently, and have noticed in the 3 weeks or month > that I've been there that there's this really wierd gender dynamic > about a guy working at a fabric store, with the customers and the > workers. It's really really messed up in this case enough that I'm > talking to a lawyer, but have any of you ever noticed a "ew. there's a > MAN in the FABRIC STORE" reaction from a lot of stitch bitches? I've > noticed it as being a customer in some stores, but never took note of > it until now. Sorry, I'm snarky and tweaked out right now with that and > other things and my palm pilot (subtext there reads "LIFE") dumped > after the batteries got knocked loose by a nameless person and I'm in a > little crisis. Lemme know what you guys think. Bjarne? > > Jeff > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > http://search.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 01:27:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695RSHP006317 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:27:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695P6sU021556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:25:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695P5Fm019226; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:25:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695P2Fm019138 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:25:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-101-226.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.101.226]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFH55575; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:24:53 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00fe01c345db$095ab600$bb7c4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.2.20030708210303.00a4dec0@pop3.lfchosting.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] gender issues Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:29:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >other things and my palm pilot (subtext there reads "LIFE") dumped >after the batteries got knocked loose by a nameless person and I'm in a >little crisis. Lemme know what you guys think. Bjarne? Weird, here in the UK many fabric stores have males in them, I'd never consider it an issue at all. Hope it sorts itself out Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 01:29:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695TPHP006324 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:29:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695QwsU021648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:26:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695QvFm020063; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:26:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695QtFm020050 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:26:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ar-008neomahp036.dialsprint.net ([63.178.246.148] helo=hppav.radiks.net) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19a7Ti-0006V7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 01:26:55 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20030709001825.02816ff0@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 00:26:39 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200307090318.h693I9Na019865@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: Fabric stores and men X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO DH Pierre knows more about fabric than most of the women that work in our local Hancock's and Joann's (all we have, except WalMart). They all know both of us, and always want to know what we're working on this time. They let us use one of the cutting tables if we need to because the pieces are too big to lay out at home. I say most because one of them who used to work there was a fashion graduate (and good friend), and another is a laurel in SCA. He works in a retail store (as stockroom manager currently, but has done most other jobs there as well), and sometimes the ladies at the fitting room come and ask him if they're stumped by a customer's question about fit, color, fabric, etc. He and I both bemoan the poor quality of most ready-to-wear, but at least he's (somewhat) easier to fit. Sandy "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly-- Why They Are Simply Doomed." Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 01:31:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695VrHP006338 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:31:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695T1sU021826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695T0Fm021157; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:29:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695SvFm021135 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:28:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-101-226.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.101.226]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFH55888; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:28:55 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <013001c345db$99809100$bb7c4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c345bf$f4fce3b0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> <02fb01c345c8$dfb71800$f1c34bab@Dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:33:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I remember a comment about height even in Victorian era a streetwalker named Long Meg was 5'4", this was considered tall for a female. Victorians (in England) were notably shorter particularly in cities than in some earlier time. Generally it goes the more rural or the richer you were the more likely you are to reach full heigh potrential QE1 was rich , came from rich parents so 5'4" does not seem impossible Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 01:56:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695uTHP006382 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:56:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695sBsU023364 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695sBFm005231; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f88.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695s9Fm005174 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:54:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:54:04 -0700 Received: from 129.244.252.89 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 05:54:04 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.252.89] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] gender issues Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 00:54:04 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jul 2003 05:54:04.0666 (UTC) FILETIME=[810CC5A0:01C345DE] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have to say that I've -never- had any problems in fabric stores. Unless you count being ignored at the cutting table, but my wife gets that too so I don't think it's just a gender thing. OTOH, I am rarely ignored by the same clerk more than once... Marc _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 02:02:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69627HP006547 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 02:02:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695qasU023273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:52:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h695qYFm004529; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:52:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h695qWFm004514 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:52:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-118-212-17.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@67.118.212.17 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2003 05:52:31 -0000 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:52:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <013001c345db$99809100$bb7c4ed5@pavilion> Message-Id: <82AA7700-B1D1-11D7-B4D0-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > QE1 was rich , came from rich parents so 5'4" does not seem impossible Anne Boleyn was actually pretty petite. Henry VIII on the other hand was somewhere in the region of 6'3", a tall guy by any era's standards. ;) Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 02:03:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6963eHP006710 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 02:03:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69617sU024062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 00:01:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69614k4008091; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 00:01:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69611k4008063 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 00:01:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-101-226.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.101.226]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFH58242; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:00:59 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <019e01c345e0$145966a0$bb7c4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <82AA7700-B1D1-11D7-B4D0-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:05:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Anne Boleyn was actually pretty petite. The richness gives her the ability to norish the babe in the womb, thus giving it the best chance of max height. I didn't mean to imply if you were rich you were necessarily tall, just that you had the best chance to meet you max potential (which might be tiny depending in your genes !) :0) > Henry VIII on the other hand was somewhere in the region of 6'3", a tall guy by any era's standards. Except very very early European Hunter gathers :) But yes that is way tall and above average although in Blood red roses (a little earlier) there are several common(?) soldiers at the 5 11 -6ft mark Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 02:45:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h696jIHP011700 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 02:45:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h696h4sU026511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 00:43:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h696h3k4024991; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 00:43:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h696h1k4024924 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 00:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.cb.35075a59 (4592) for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 02:42:53 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 02:42:53 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores and men To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, Your two husbands are definitely NOT alone in this! My father and I walked into JoAnns so that I could get fabric and he could get lichen for his train set, and he got bothered and such by sales ladies, while I stood on line with the oldest woman alive...poor lady. Bet she was real happy that it was payday by the time she finished cutting everything for me. However, in New York City, which is where I highly prefer to shop, since it's really only 10 minutes more on the road than JoAnn's, no one bats an eye at all the male clerks, cutters, etc. My "usual" store, on Broadway (P&S Fabrics) is made up of an entirely male staff with the exception of one or two women. And the fashion fabric guy knows me there, so I can sometimes get discounts. He also didn't bat an eye when I bought $300 worth of fabric for a school play. aviendiora@mcleodusa.net writes: > Then again, I just really hate my local store. They've asked me several > times to bring my mom in before buying that fabric, and how dare I even > consider to wash wool in the washing machine, and am I sure that I really > need more than five yards of this fabric, and... Needless to say, I will > travel 45 minutes to go to the next closest store rather than hitting the > one that is 15 minutes away at most. They may still question my husband at > times but they are much nicer about it and don't make him argue for five > minutes before cutting the fabric. I've encountered this as well, but again, never in NYC, and also never at the local store, which is overpriced but staffed by women who mostly know what they're doing, though the sewing instructor stared at me as if I'd gone nuts when I told her about the load of costumes I was handling. Anyhow. Things like this have always happened at Joanns, and since I'm 18, it's "Have your mom look at this." And I think to myself, "My mother knows how to sew a button on. She can't operate a sewing machine or a serger without supervision. She wouldn't know the difference between bemberg and silk essence if I made a flowchart." Granted this is too long to say to a sales clerk, so I just smile politely and say, "Oh, she doesn't sew." Goodness, I'd love to send my boyfriend into one of these stores with orders for a specific type/color/whatever fabric for a T-tunic or something for himself. I'll hide in a corner to watch, because he's 6'4" and built like a linebacker- or a person who chops wood all the time, and seeing all the ladies go "Um, ah, er" while trying to figure out what such a large, non-sewer-like person is doing in the store, would be very amusing. Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 02:56:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h696u5HP012998 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 02:56:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h696rdsU027234 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 00:53:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h696rck4029214; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 00:53:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h696rZk4029164 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 00:53:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.12.33378c30 (4592) for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 02:53:24 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <12.33378c30.2c3d15e4@aol.com> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 02:53:24 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores and men To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/9/03 2:45:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, IceGirlNIN@aol.com writes: > Your two husbands are definitely NOT alone in this! Ah, I should clarify that. I meant to say the two people who were mentioning that the men in their lives were being given this treatment, and I think the original poster was..Jeff? So that's really three people, I think? I should just not write e-mails at 2am. Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 03:18:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h697IfHP015644 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 03:18:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h697FPsU028707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:15:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h697FObA007560; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:15:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41505.mail.yahoo.com (web41505.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h697FLbA007498 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:15:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030709071516.76230.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41505.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 08:15:16 BST Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:15:16 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Web Sites To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F0B9508.60101@misc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Theresa Eacker wrote: > To Nicole- > > Where's the time-travelling feature? Will my Netscape/iMac not allow it > to work or show up? It's in 'Living History' and under the chapter 'photo galleries'. The direct link is here: http://www.kipar.org/society/galleries_timetravel.html The coding of the siteis clean and simple, no matter which broswer or OS you are using, it should all work. I don't like fancy scripting that only works for some. If it doesn't work, then I made an error. *laughs* Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 03:46:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h697k6HP018838 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 03:46:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h697hosU001115 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:43:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h697hnbA021403; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:43:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41507.mail.yahoo.com (web41507.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h697hlbA021358 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:43:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030709074341.23509.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 08:43:41 BST Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:43:41 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores and men To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20030709021613.66148.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Jeff Brainard wrote: > Here's one for you to stew over: I (at least for the present) work at a > fabric store, only recently, and have noticed in the 3 weeks or month > that I've been there that there's this really wierd gender dynamic > about a guy working at a fabric store, with the customers and the > workers. It's really really messed up in this case enough that I'm > talking to a lawyer, but have any of you ever noticed a "ew. there's a > MAN in the FABRIC STORE" reaction from a lot of stitch bitches? Really? I'm so sorry to hear that Jeff. Might it be a country/culture thing? There are men working in lots of fabric stores I visited in Germany, and male customers, and men working in fabric stores here in England, and male customers too, including my partner. Hmm,.... hang in there, perhaps you can change the climate! Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 04:20:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h698KRHP023427 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 04:20:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h698IAsU003337 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 02:18:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h698I8iR004699; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 02:18:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h698I5iR004687 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 02:18:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h698INh26984 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:18:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:18:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200307090818.h698INh26984@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1890s bodice "shrinkage" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Angela Kovatch wrote: > > I meant to say that on my wedding dress, the same > thing happened as on the only other 19th-C dress I've > made, a '90s ballgown. Although I fitted the bodice > mock-up very carefully over the corset fairly loosely > laced (with Katy Bishop's help on the second > one--thanks), by the time the actual bodice was > finished I had to tight-lace the corset to get it on. > I'm guessing this has to do with the number of layers > in the actual dress (though they're thin fabric) and > the added thickness of the stays & bone casings, but > it still seems wierd to me. Have other people > experienced this, or am I introducing error while > sewing, somehow? If this is normal, I will just have > to remember to fit the mock-up loose next time. I know that when we did my 1890s wedding dress, we made the bodice _very_ loose, basted the top and lining layers together, then put it on me with my underpinnings. We then used silk tailor's thread to hand baste the seams to what would be their final fitting. This helps avoid the ever-shrinking garment problem that pops up whenever you have multiple layers. I did the same with our double-breasted band jackets, which were wool with interlining and cotton lining. Cutting too big is far better than not-quite-big-enough. You can always take in the seams on a too-loose garment. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 05:01:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6991UHP027685 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 05:01:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h698xBsU006738 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 02:59:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h698x9SX022948; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 02:59:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h698x7SX022864 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 02:59:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D689FBE593 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:59:01 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F0BDA1C.5000000@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 11:02:20 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Interesting tings to see in Glasgow? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In september I will be on vakation for a week in Glasgow, Scotland and I wonder if there are things I really should see. Are there musea's with historical costumes?? Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 05:17:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h699HGHP028204 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 05:17:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h699EwsU007983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 03:14:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h699EtSX002284; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 03:14:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (mta6-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h699EpSX001842 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 03:14:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Imedia5043 ([80.1.22.75]) by mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20030709091449.IHBG392.mta6-svc.business.ntl.com@Imedia5043> for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:14:49 +0100 Message-ID: <00ff01c345fa$884500f0$4b160150@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F0BDA1C.5000000@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting tings to see in Glasgow? Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:14:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO there's the Kelvingrove in the city which has a very good armour collection (William Randolph Hurst's collection) and lots of Rennie mackintosh things and also the Burrell collection which is just outside set in a lovely house in fab grounds which has some very nice Tudor embroideries amongst other items Dawn Ages Of Elegance makers of Historical reproduction Clothing, Uniforms and Bridalwear http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "H-Costume" Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 10:02 AM Subject: [h-cost] Interesting tings to see in Glasgow? > In september I will be on vakation for a week in Glasgow, Scotland and I > wonder if there are things I really should see. > Are there musea's with historical costumes?? > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 05:24:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h699OcHP031419 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 05:24:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h699MCsU008511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 03:22:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h699M6SX027425; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 03:22:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h699M2SX027380 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 03:22:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2787019FB38 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:21:57 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F0BDF7D.6070202@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 11:25:17 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting tings to see in Glasgow? References: <3F0BDA1C.5000000@kabelfoon.nl> <00ff01c345fa$884500f0$4b160150@Imedia5043> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.glasgowmuseums.com/venue/index.cfm?venueid=4 They say Kelvingrove is closed untill 2006 :-( Greetings, Deredere Dawn Wood wrote: >there's the Kelvingrove in the city which has a very good armour collection >(William Randolph Hurst's collection) and lots of Rennie mackintosh things >and also the Burrell collection which is just outside set in a lovely house >in fab grounds which has some very nice Tudor embroideries amongst other >items >Dawn >Ages Of Elegance makers of Historical reproduction Clothing, Uniforms and >Bridalwear > http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Deredere Galbraith" >To: "H-Costume" >Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 10:02 AM >Subject: [h-cost] Interesting tings to see in Glasgow? > > > > >>In september I will be on vakation for a week in Glasgow, Scotland and I >>wonder if there are things I really should see. >>Are there musea's with historical costumes?? >> >>Greetings, >> Deredere >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 05:44:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h699ipHP004647 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 05:44:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h699gVsU009592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 03:42:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h699fQSX004806; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 03:41:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h699fOSX004797 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 03:41:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030709094123.OIDU2652.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:41:23 +0100 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030709104045.019591c8@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:41:22 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help on late 18th-early 19th C undergarments In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-31E2B23; boundary="=======6095F0B=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======6095F0B======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-31E2B23; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 02:01 09/07/2003 +0000, you wrote: >If I'm understanding correctly - it wasn't common or considered necessary >for the average man to wear under-drawers beneath their breeches/trousers, >but the gentry, the nobility, military officers, etc., likely would, >fabric to be determined by their finances? And the colder the climate, >the more necessary they'd be considered? Sound about right? I think in Britain underdrawers were usual. The Victoria and Albert Museum have several examples. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======6095F0B======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======6095F0B=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 05:56:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h699uwHP010185 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 05:56:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h699sdsU010407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 03:54:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h699scSX010770; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 03:54:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h699sZSX010751 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 03:54:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030709095434.PASI2652.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:54:34 +0100 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030709105349.019591c8@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:54:33 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII In-Reply-To: <3F0B1518.26882.10CE12B0@localhost> References: <5B0303B8-B16C-11D7-BBD5-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> <20030708173632.33740.qmail@web11401.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-31E2B23; boundary="=======7F5A6A6C=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======7F5A6A6C======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-31E2B23; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 19:01 08/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: >I still remember seeing the same awful French Hood from Anne of a >Thousand Days in one of the old "Six Wives of Henry VIII" episodes. >It was beaded or embroidered and looked like something from Victorian >times (with the jet beaded purses although this one was gold and >white.) > >People keep showing me that and saying "see, you can embroider/bead >French Hoods" as if *that* were documentation. "But BBC always does >such a good job on documentation, it has to be right." Yeah, sure. It was nothing to do with the BBC. It was produced for Channel 5, the 'other' terrestrial channel, ie the smallest. The recreations were deeply naff, I thought. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======7F5A6A6C======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======7F5A6A6C=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 05:59:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h699xfHP010942 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 05:59:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h699vVsU010556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 03:57:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h699vUai011755; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 03:57:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h699vSai011722 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 03:57:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030709095727.PFCZ2652.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:57:27 +0100 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030709105542.019591c8@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:57:26 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting tings to see in Glasgow? In-Reply-To: <3F0BDF7D.6070202@kabelfoon.nl> References: <3F0BDA1C.5000000@kabelfoon.nl> <00ff01c345fa$884500f0$4b160150@Imedia5043> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-31E2B23; boundary="=======70BF4FBD=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======70BF4FBD======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-31E2B23; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 11:25 09/07/2003 +0200, you wrote: >http://www.glasgowmuseums.com/venue/index.cfm?venueid=4 >They say Kelvingrove is closed untill 2006 :-( You have to go to the Art School. It's Charles Rennie Mackintosh. Not costume per se, but unmissable. The Art Gallery is wonderful. And there's this nice pub on Sauchiehall St Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======70BF4FBD======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======70BF4FBD=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 06:14:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69AEOHP017263 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:14:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69ABxsU011386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 04:11:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69ABwai017841; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 04:11:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69ABtai017786 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 04:11:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BOSTONHAHN@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.198.1cf6c9ff (30950) for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:11:48 -0400 (EDT) From: BOSTONHAHN@aol.com Message-ID: <198.1cf6c9ff.2c3d4464@aol.com> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:11:48 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] list admin announcement To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10581 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO CONGRATULATIONS. HOPE YOU ARE BOTH DOING FINE!!! NOW THE REAL FUN BEGINS..... ELISABETH _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 06:19:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69AIxHP020410 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:19:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69AGksU011582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 04:16:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69AGjai019648; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 04:16:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (mta6-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69AGgai019629 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 04:16:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Imedia5043 ([80.1.15.183]) by mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20030709101641.LIGS392.mta6-svc.business.ntl.com@Imedia5043> for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:16:41 +0100 Message-ID: <015d01c34603$2ca2aa50$4b160150@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F0BDA1C.5000000@kabelfoon.nl><00ff01c345fa$884500f0$4b160150@Imedia5043> <3F0BDF7D.6070202@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting tings to see in Glasgow? Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:16:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO hmm I know they are refurbishing as my friend is the arms curator and redesigning the gallery but didn't think they were actually closed go and stand on the doorstep and hammer until they let you in Dawn Ages Of Elegance makers of Historical reproduction Clothing, Uniforms and Bridalwear http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting tings to see in Glasgow? > http://www.glasgowmuseums.com/venue/index.cfm?venueid=4 > They say Kelvingrove is closed untill 2006 :-( > > Greetings, > Deredere > > Dawn Wood wrote: > > >there's the Kelvingrove in the city which has a very good armour collection > >(William Randolph Hurst's collection) and lots of Rennie mackintosh things > >and also the Burrell collection which is just outside set in a lovely house > >in fab grounds which has some very nice Tudor embroideries amongst other > >items > >Dawn > >Ages Of Elegance makers of Historical reproduction Clothing, Uniforms and > >Bridalwear > > http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Deredere Galbraith" > >To: "H-Costume" > >Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 10:02 AM > >Subject: [h-cost] Interesting tings to see in Glasgow? > > > > > > > > > >>In september I will be on vakation for a week in Glasgow, Scotland and I > >>wonder if there are things I really should see. > >>Are there musea's with historical costumes?? > >> > >>Greetings, > >> Deredere > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>h-costume mailing list > >>h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 06:51:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69ApQHP000881 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:51:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69An1sU013302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 04:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69An0ai002195; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 04:49:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Amxai002185 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 04:48:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-67.31.36.200.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([67.31.36.200] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19aCVN-0003oF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 03:48:58 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030708233853.050c5f08@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 06:48:06 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Caraco jacket fantasy? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK, I'm sitting here with the only sources *I* have for this period: Janet Arnold, _Patterns of Fashion 1: Englishwomen's dresses and their construction c. 1660-1860_ and Robert L. Klinger, "Distaff Sketch Book: A Collection of Notes and Sketches on Women's Dress in America, 1774-1783". Note that the Klinger opus does not contain a bibliography; furthermore, it appears to be the equivalent of Winters & Savoy for the Colonial Williamsburg (re-en)actors/docents/whatever they're called. Other biblio info for the Sketch Book: copyright Robert Lee Klinger, 1974; published by Pioneer Press, Box 684, Union City, TN 38261; Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 74-29086. When I purchased the book, I think in the early 1990's, it was selling for $4.95 at the Colonial Williamsburg gift shop. Between the two publications, I have three sketches and patterns for a caraco. They are all between hip length and knee length, the hems even all around except that one has a cut-away center-front and one has a false open front with center front insert. The first, in Arnold, also appears in Klinger. It has three main pattern pieces: a front piece, from which an integral would-be-skirt-gore extends from the waist (it is invert-pleated into the jacket); a back piece, in which a similar would-be-skirt-gore extends the skirt into almost a 90-degree wedge; and a sleeve piece, which covers to just below the elbows. It is cut short at the front, the cutaway taking the shape of a stomacher with a squared-off center-front point. The fronts meet at center front and are secured edge-to-edge by hooks and eyes. There is an inverted pleat at the center back of the skirt as well. The neckline is square-ish and cut low; a fichu fills it in. According to Arnold, there would have been removable sleeve flounces of organza, and the petticoat would either have matched the caraco's fabric, or it would have been decorated with a flounce. The non-cutaway portions of the caraco are knee-length all around. The other two are only in Klinger. The first of these looks to be working-class. Instead of an extension to the side front for a pleat, the side-front angles to a 45-degree A-line from the waist down. The back pleat does remain. There is no front cutaway, and the jacket is laced down to what would be the bottom of a lady's corset. The sleeves are elbow-length at the inner arm, extending a little lower to cover the outer elbow, and the sleeve bottom is pleated to form a triple-pleated decorative cuff. The neckline is squared but modest, completely covering the breasts. The hem is hip-length all around. The title of the page is "Long Jacket or Caraco", and the front view is also labeled "French 'Casaquin'". The other caraco in Klinger includes an attached pleated hood that otherwise looks to be tightly-fitted. This gives the caraco the appearance of being an out-of-doors garment. A buttoned false front gives the appearance of a stomacher (or a buttoned-front bodice) beneath an open lapelled-front jacket. The front pattern piece extends through the side back with an extension for a side-back pleat; it has also an armhole tuck that ends in a side (false side-seam) pleat. It has the typical extended front shoulder. The back pattern piece includes extensions for inverted pleats at center back and side back. The center-back seam is slightly curved for fitting through the waist, and the side-back seam is curved much like a for a semi-princess seam. The hood is pleated along both the back seam and the neckline and is attached to a band which is then applied to the neckline. The hood neckline is somewhat shorter than the expanse between the front turnbacks/lapels, so there is a bit of a gap between turnback and hood. The top of the false front appears to cover most of the breast, leaving a comely swell of bosom and possibly the barest hint of cleavage. The false front comes to a point about 2-3" below the waist; the rest of the caraco skirt extends about 3-5" below the hip, even all around. The sleeves are elbow length with a graduated attached flounce. I know words don't always describe a garment well, so I hope this is at least of some help. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 08:18:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69CIeHP010398 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:18:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69CGMsU019386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:16:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69CGI6h008031; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:16:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web42005.mail.yahoo.com (web42005.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h69CGG6h007991 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:16:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030709121611.62381.qmail@web42005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.164.201.16] by web42005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 08:16:11 EDT Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:16:11 -0400 (EDT) From: liz haines Subject: Re: [h-cost] list admin announcement To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20030709025314.GA5185@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO congrats ! parenthood is the grandest adventure liz Elizabeth Lear wrote: Sorry I haven't been available for admin concerns, but ... I would like to announce the arrival of my son, born at 3:45am on 7/5. He weighed 8 lbs., 14 oz., and was 20" long. His Apgar scores were 9 and 10. Name will be announced at the Bris on Sunday. ...eliz -- "The decision to have a child is to accept that your heart will forever walk about outside of your body" - Katharine Hadley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 08:40:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69CeKHP010473 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:40:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Cb5sU020918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:37:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Cb26h017382; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Cax6h017359 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:37:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h69Cawp21517.; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:36:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:36:58 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:36:25 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] feeling ignernt ...and enjoying it :-) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cathy Raymond wrote: >>>I know women with grapefruits. >However, I only have strawberries. Small strawberries at that, too. :-) Reminds me of a sketch in the "Two Ronnies" TV series years ago. Ronnie Corbett: I want to buy my wife a new bra, but I don't know what size to ask for. Ronnie Barker: Well, are they like melons? Or grapefruits? Or oranges? RC: [thinks a bit] They're like eggs. [Pause] ........Fried. Having a figure of the fried egg variety myself, that always makes me smile. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 08:48:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69CmFHP010504 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:48:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69CjxsU021581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:45:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Cjw6h021341; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:45:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40907.mail.yahoo.com (web40907.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h69Cjs6h021298 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:45:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030709124549.45623.qmail@web40907.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.105.108.30] by web40907.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 05:45:49 PDT Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 05:45:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200307090529.h695T8Fo021230@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: side-lacing kirtle X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > 8. experiments in lacing my kirtle (michaela) > though as recently seen people tend to take these > things as either an > usurpation of someone elses work, or the new and > only way to go about something;) Hopefully, though, that was just Robin and I fretting that such a thing *might* happen, not that it already has, at least with my website. (On that topic -- I hope to make a bunch of fixes/tweaks this weekend. A web developer friend even found some phantom javascript I thought I'd taken out floating around in my source code. That alone could be tripping up people's browsers, if they're using an older generation of browser.) > I am not > trying to fit my kirtle, just find a better way to > get into it. I can see the challenges you must face, having to reach to the side, and under one arm to boot... Do you have an extra-long lace in the eyelets? Or, are you also threading the lace as you do your lean-forward method? I just imagine that a long lace that can stay in the eyelets, loosened ahead of time, would at least eliminate some of the awkwardness. > I think a series of photos might be useful.. As a technical writer by profession, I think you're on to something here.. Tasha ===== http://www.cottesimple.com An exploration of European clothing and accessories from the late 14th/early 15th centuries. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 08:55:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69CtQHP010590 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:55:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69CqJsU021846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:52:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69CqH6h023897; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:52:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h69CqE6h023797 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:52:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWoN7aRzAcCoSWheMPP/fKaqHazRKNXdYzQ==">; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 05:51:44 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H4M8XD3Z; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 05:51:44 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:52:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? Message-ID: <20030709.085256.-519975.1.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-9 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I hate to jump in without my references at hand, but I do know that I read she was well above average in height. At that time the well to do were about on the par with us modern folk (or so I read). I have seen several references to Mary Stuart being almost six feet tall (did a lot of research on her and believe this is correct). Somehow, I always thought of QE1 as being in the five foot seven to nine inch range, but, like I said, I don't remember the sources. Sorry, I doubt that this is a bit of help. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 09:11:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DBNHP010642 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:11:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69D82sU023215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69D82La002929; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h69D7xLa002891 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:07:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWoN7aRzAcCoSgnZ5ou0p1YWPFgoKX1/5aw==">; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 06:07:00 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H4M9TDBQ; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 06:07:00 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:08:09 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] list admin announcement Message-ID: <20030709.090810.-519975.2.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Congratulations!! Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 09:13:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DDrHP010651 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:13:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DAcsU023433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:10:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DAcLa004192; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:10:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (imo-m01.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DAaLa004149 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:10:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.19a.17a5fe14 (4426) for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:10:28 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <19a.17a5fe14.2c3d6e42@aol.com> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:10:26 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores and men To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can't say I ever noticed it. I worked for Hancock for several years with male managers who of course had to pitch in and do everything as we were always running on a skeleton staff. Maybe it has something to do with your geographic location? We are in a large metropolitan area (Washington, DC), so we may have more male customers, too. Sorry you are running into that. As a customer, I don't care who is helping me, as long as he or she is competent (can you tell that the staff at my local JoAnn's, where I have to go when I just need a thing or two, leave something to be desired?) Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 09:15:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DF3HP010655 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:15:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DClsU023659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:12:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DClLa005431; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:12:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41505.mail.yahoo.com (web41505.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h69DCiLa005336 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:12:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030709131239.47170.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41505.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:12:39 BST Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:12:39 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20030709.085256.-519975.1.catpurson@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- catpurson@juno.com wrote: > I hate to jump in without my references at hand, but I do know > that I read she was well above average in height. At that time the well > to do were about on the par with us modern folk (or so I read). That's kind of relative, because I find that I am tall here in England (5'9") but average in Germany and almost short in Scandinavia. Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 09:31:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DVMHP010715 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:31:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DSesU025306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:28:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DSdLa014663; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:28:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h69DSaLa014644 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:28:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 6018 invoked by uid 1005); 9 Jul 2003 13:28:32 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.106587 secs); 09 Jul 2003 13:28:32 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.106587 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 9 Jul 2003 13:28:31 -0000 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:28:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? In-Reply-To: <20030709.085256.-519975.1.catpurson@juno.com> Message-ID: <20030709092629.D1438-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If it's true that the effigy corset in Westminster was from QE's store, it might be possible to extrapolate her height based on the height of the corset. I know that it is around 21 inches around the waist, but is very long and narrow. Hard to believe it fit an actual woman! Drea On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 catpurson@juno.com wrote: > I hate to jump in without my references at hand, but I do know > that I read she was well above average in height. At that time the well > to do were about on the par with us modern folk (or so I read). I have > seen several references to Mary Stuart being almost six feet tall (did a > lot of research on her and believe this is correct). Somehow, I always > thought of QE1 as being in the five foot seven to nine inch range, but, > like I said, I don't remember the sources. Sorry, I doubt that this is a > bit of help. > > Lalah > Never give up, Never surrender > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 09:33:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DXQHP010723 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:33:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DUnsU025564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:30:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DUnLa015810; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:30:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h69DUkLa015716 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:30:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWoN7aRzAcCoS5lXZqo4WzhMOrKlc3VZPoQ==">; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 06:29:47 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H4NA433B; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 06:29:47 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:31:11 -0400 Message-ID: <20030709.093112.-519975.3.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-6 From: catpurson@juno.com Subject: [h-cost] velvet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fabric.com has cotton velvet for 12.95 a yard and cotton velveteen for 7.95 a yard. Why do they always have the fabric I want after I spend more at Joann's? Never mind. That was a rhetorical question. If you are looking for cotton velvet or velveteen, I can say I have had good luck with these people over the past couple of years. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 09:34:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DY0HP010726 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:34:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DVjsU025692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:31:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DViLa016432; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:31:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DVfLa016385 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:31:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.249.181.11] (pool181-76.patriot.net [209.249.181.76]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h69DVbiw028167 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:31:38 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030708233853.050c5f08@mail.earthlink.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030708233853.050c5f08@mail.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:31:04 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Caraco jacket fantasy? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Brenda, Beware - the Distaff Sketch Book is a bad source. Anything decent is plagerized without citation. That's why the same caraco is in Arnold, it's copied from there. A much better book was recently published - Whatever Shall I Wear, A Guide to Assembling a Woman's Basic 18th Century Wardrobe by Mara Riley, illustrated by Kate Johnson. There's not much about caracos specifically, but it's a well-researched, beautifully illustrated book! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 09:35:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DZQHP010733 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:35:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DW7sU025727 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:32:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DW6La016697; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:32:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h69DW2La016661 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:32:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 13502 invoked by uid 1005); 9 Jul 2003 13:31:53 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.14305 secs); 09 Jul 2003 13:31:53 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.14305 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 9 Jul 2003 13:31:53 -0000 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:31:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Web Sites In-Reply-To: <20030709071516.76230.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030709093114.E1438-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nicole, That's fantastic! Wow! I love it. Thanks, Drea (Eyeing her Flemish Genre painting scans in a whole new light) On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, [iso-8859-1] N Kipar wrote: > --- Theresa Eacker wrote: > To Nicole- > > > > Where's the time-travelling feature? Will my Netscape/iMac not allow it > > to work or show up? > > It's in 'Living History' and under the chapter 'photo galleries'. The direct > link is here: > > http://www.kipar.org/society/galleries_timetravel.html > > The coding of the siteis clean and simple, no matter which broswer or OS you > are using, it should all work. I don't like fancy scripting that only works for > some. If it doesn't work, then I made an error. *laughs* > > Nicole > > ===== > Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism > > Email: nicole@kipar.org > URL: http://www.kipar.org > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 09:47:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DlfHP010779 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:47:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DiosU027189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:44:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DinLa025273; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:44:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu (kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu [169.147.166.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DikLa025242 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:44:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 08:44:46 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 08:44:38 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Re: fabric stores and men X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gosh...I know I wouldn't give a second thought to a guy working in a fabric store...I for one know that my guy is better at color matching and selection than I'll ever be! Talia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I use my DH for second opinions on color all the time too. Of course his favorites are black and red :). Sorry you are having troubles Jeff. A good friend of mine also has problems when he goes into fabrics stores to shop, at least Hancock's or JoAnn's. They know him very well in the two higher-end stores here in town and he has no problems there. That could also be because, especially in one of them, they are very familiar with his work and he is an awesome costume (started in Civil War and we are sucking him into Elizabethan, yes I'm trying to get him onto this list :). http://www.kcrenfest.com/PhotoGallery/Fops.html. Jason is the gentleman on the right and he created all 3 costumes). I had not really thought of it before but after Jeff has brought this up, I don't see very many men in our local fabric stores, at least the Hancock's and JoAnn's, either working at them or shopping. One of the remaining, smaller, JoAnn's used to be managed by a man but he has since left. Both of the higher-end stores do have male employees, one is owned by a man. Sounds like any problems might be more with the larger chains. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 09:50:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Do5HP010789 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:50:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DlpsU027416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:47:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DloLa026757; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:47:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DlkLa026680 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:47:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id AD0130856; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 08:47:45 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] list admin announcement Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:47:45 -0500 Message-ID: <003d01c34620$ad349cb0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <20030709025314.GA5185@net.indra.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This might explain my virtual lack of messages over the weekend- 10 or so instead of 80+ but a reasonable excuse in anyone's book. Congratulations, and happy future! Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Lear Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:53 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] list admin announcement Sorry I haven't been available for admin concerns, but ... I would like to announce the arrival of my son, born at 3:45am on 7/5. He weighed 8 lbs., 14 oz., and was 20" long. His Apgar scores were 9 and 10. Name will be announced at the Bris on Sunday. ...eliz -- "The decision to have a child is to accept that your heart will forever walk about outside of your body" - Katharine Hadley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 09:50:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DoHHP010792 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:50:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Dm2sU027451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Dm2La026850; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DlqLa026714 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:47:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A7A919FB78 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:47:47 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F0C1DCC.6070903@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:51:08 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? References: <20030709092629.D1438-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are some mesurements In Janet Arnolds Patterns of fashion. They mesure from back neck to ground 1570-1580 Kirtle worn under a loose gown by a slim woman 57.5" 146.1cm This person was probably aboud 1.66-170cm tall Greetings, Deredere >> I hate to jump in without my references at hand, but I do know >>that I read she was well above average in height. At that time the well >>to do were about on the par with us modern folk (or so I read). I have >>seen several references to Mary Stuart being almost six feet tall (did a >>lot of research on her and believe this is correct). Somehow, I always >>thought of QE1 as being in the five foot seven to nine inch range, but, >>like I said, I don't remember the sources. Sorry, I doubt that this is a >>bit of help. >> >>Lalah >>Never give up, Never surrender >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 09:58:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DwSHP010807 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:58:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DuFsU028165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:56:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DuEhx001376; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:56:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69DuBhx001316 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:56:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m122.in-tch.com [216.166.191.122]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h69Db3b18365 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:37:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F0C1EC2.CE69AE02@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 07:55:14 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] list admin announcement References: <20030709025314.GA5185@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OH, wow! That's wonderful news! Congratulations, Mom! --sue Elizabeth Lear wrote: > > Sorry I haven't been available for admin concerns, but ... > > I would like to announce the arrival of my son, born at 3:45am on 7/5. > He weighed 8 lbs., 14 oz., and was 20" long. His Apgar scores were 9 > and 10. Name will be announced at the Bris on Sunday. > > ...eliz > > -- > "The decision to have a child is to accept that your heart will > forever walk about outside of your body" - Katharine Hadley > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 10:05:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69E5AHP010828 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:05:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69E2isU028851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:02:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69E2fhx004884; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:02:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69E2bhx004799 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:02:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.9/8.11.4) with SMTP id h69E2T2f018231 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:02:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <025a01c34622$c1b23560$56a810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030709021613.66148.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores and men Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:02:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Most times I figure any male working in a fabric store came into it as family business --the 'rag trade'. See it on the East coast (read that as New York and Philly) a lot. They usually know their stuff. Of course most of these places are not the JoAnn type chains and many are run by ethnics other than 'white bread America', but not all. It doesn't faze me a bit. Where are you? Kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Brainard" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 10:16 PM Subject: [h-cost] fabric stores and men > Here's one for you to stew over: I (at least for the present) work at a > fabric store, only recently, and have noticed in the 3 weeks or month > that I've been there that there's this really wierd gender dynamic > about a guy working at a fabric store, with the customers and the > workers. It's really really messed up in this case enough that I'm > talking to a lawyer, but have any of you ever noticed a "ew. there's a > MAN in the FABRIC STORE" reaction from a lot of stitch bitches? I've > noticed it as being a customer in some stores, but never took note of > it until now. Sorry, I'm snarky and tweaked out right now with that and > other things and my palm pilot (subtext there reads "LIFE") dumped > after the batteries got knocked loose by a nameless person and I'm in a > little crisis. Lemme know what you guys think. Bjarne? > > Jeff > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > http://search.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 10:13:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69EDXHP010854 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:13:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69EBDsU029485 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:11:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69EBChx009585; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:11:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69EB9hx009499 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:11:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m122.in-tch.com [216.166.191.122]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h69Dq1b21224 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F0C2244.7480B21C@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 08:10:12 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores and men References: <20030709021613.66148.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> <014e01c345d9$5dcad6e0$24cabfcf@ats.mcleodusa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I haven't experienced that sort of discrimination in a fabric store (not being male ), but I don't have any trouble imagining it, either. I guess I'd just look at it as an opportunity to educate. Which, of course, would get old if it happens a lot, but at least might get one past the frustration. I have gotten incredulous looks and minor comments about the amount of material I buy (the whole bolt, if necessary), or washing wools and linens in the machine (why would I possibly want that nice wool to full??!), but really, it's only comments and not arguments. I'd venture to say it's a pretty safe guess that virtually none of the people who work in most of our local little JoAnn's and Hancock's ever see many serious costumers on a daily basis, so their frame of reference will be someone buying a bit of that upholstery fabric for a pillow, and not the whole bolt for a 'bethan, or buying that nice wool twill for an interview suit, and not a 14th c. gown and hose. --sue Avien wrote: > > Hello, > > I've heard a lot saying that this isn't the case for them so I just had to > say that you're not the only one! My husband gets it all the time when he > goes in there. All the women clerks are asking him how he got roped into > coming in with me when really we're picking out stuff for him. The few > times I've made him go pick stuff up for me, they ask him continuously if > he's sure and maybe he should wait until his wife can come in with him. > While he doesn't sew a lot, he prolly knows more than the clerks there. > > Then again, I just really hate my local store. They've asked me several > times to bring my mom in before buying that fabric, and how dare I even > consider to wash wool in the washing machine, and am I sure that I really > need more than five yards of this fabric, and... Needless to say, I will > travel 45 minutes to go to the next closest store rather than hitting the > one that is 15 minutes away at most. They may still question my husband at > times but they are much nicer about it and don't make him argue for five > minutes before cutting the fabric. > > Avien > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Brainard" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:16 PM > Subject: [h-cost] fabric stores and men > > > Here's one for you to stew over: I (at least for the present) work at a > > fabric store, only recently, and have noticed in the 3 weeks or month > > that I've been there that there's this really wierd gender dynamic > > about a guy working at a fabric store, with the customers and the > > workers. It's really really messed up in this case enough that I'm > > talking to a lawyer, but have any of you ever noticed a "ew. there's a > > MAN in the FABRIC STORE" reaction from a lot of stitch bitches? I've > > noticed it as being a customer in some stores, but never took note of > > it until now. Sorry, I'm snarky and tweaked out right now with that and > > other things and my palm pilot (subtext there reads "LIFE") dumped > > after the batteries got knocked loose by a nameless person and I'm in a > > little crisis. Lemme know what you guys think. Bjarne? > > > > Jeff > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > > http://search.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 10:14:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69EEjHP010861 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:14:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69ECTsU029588 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:12:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69ECShx010337; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:12:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69ECOhx010267 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:12:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m122.in-tch.com [216.166.191.122]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h69DrFb21538 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:53:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F0C228F.DC5B153E@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 08:11:27 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? References: <000801c345bf$f4fce3b0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> <013001c345db$99809100$bb7c4ed5@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Also, her father was notably tall. --sue Melanie Wilson wrote: > > >I remember a comment about height even in Victorian era a streetwalker > named > Long Meg was 5'4", this was considered tall for a female. > > Victorians (in England) were notably shorter particularly in cities than in > some earlier time. > > Generally it goes the more rural or the richer you were the more likely you > are to reach full heigh potrential > > QE1 was rich , came from rich parents so 5'4" does not seem impossible > > Mel > > This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received > it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose > the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of > this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the > Company, unless specifically stated. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 10:49:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69EnDHP010958 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:49:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Ei0sU002662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Ehwhx027685; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:43:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Ehnhx027568 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:43:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) JAA26512 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:43:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <000c01c34628$9d008900$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030708173632.33740.qmail@web11401.mail.yahoo.com> <3F0B1518.26882.10CE12B0@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:44:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I did a French hood for a 24" porcelain doll I made about five years ago and while the metal framework was quite beyond my skills, I'm still rather proud of it, although I didn't do a separate coif underneath as the entire unit had to be removeable by the doll judges(lest the headdress was hiding a flaw on the doll). I did do a wire framework covered with fabric and had to redraw the original commercial pattern(very influenced by Anne of the Thousand Days)to the correct shape and size. To simulate the framework, I found two different types of antique gold braid in the right scale and set two different sizes of half "pearls" and cabachon "gems"--faceted "gems" look way too modern and overpower a doll's face--to get something that looked reasonably authentic. Cindy Abel ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII > > > I found PBS's website for the program: > > http://www.pbs.org/wnet/sixwives/ > > > > Okay, will you *look* at that god-awful excuse for head gear on the > > ladies heads??? > > Did they get them from the same rental house that seems to provide so > many hats? > > I still remember seeing the same awful French Hood from Anne of a > Thousand Days in one of the old "Six Wives of Henry VIII" episodes. > It was beaded or embroidered and looked like something from Victorian > times (with the jet beaded purses although this one was gold and > white.) > > People keep showing me that and saying "see, you can embroider/bead > French Hoods" as if *that* were documentation. "But BBC always does > such a good job on documentation, it has to be right." Yeah, sure. > > >From what I can find they were made of gold work as in jewellery > work, not gold work as in beading/embroidering. All of the references > in the Inventories of King Henry VIII were obviously jewellery work. > > However, if someone has inventory or extant object documentation for > embroidery/beadwork on French Hoods, I'd like to see it. Always > looking for more solid information on the things! (That and gabled > hoods, especially from the c.1540 time period.) > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 10:53:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69ErUHP010966 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:53:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69EnosU003238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:49:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Enmhx001646; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:49:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h69Enihx001537 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:49:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OuKoJ3NZ/B9a/leGuY/SGyU=">; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 07:49:19 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H4NFNPPG; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 07:49:19 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:02:59 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores and men Message-ID: <20030709.074810.1588.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-56 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Our guys here have no trouble. If anyone asks, they say they're with the local SCA, which has a large presence here (three big branches within spitting distance of the best fabric stores around). Clerks tend to smile and nod. :) If a guy works in a fabric store, more power to him! Arlys > --- Jeff Brainard wrote: > > Here's one for you to stew over: I (at least for the > > present) work at a > > fabric store, only recently, and have noticed in the > > 3 weeks or month > > that I've been there that there's this really wierd > > gender dynamic > > about a guy working at a fabric store, with the > > customers and the > > workers. It's really really messed up in this case > > enough that I'm > > talking to a lawyer, but have any of you ever > > noticed a "ew. there's a > > MAN in the FABRIC STORE" reaction from a lot of > > stitch bitches? I've > > noticed it as being a customer in some stores, but > > never took note of > > it until now. Sorry, I'm snarky and tweaked out > > right now with that and > > other things and my palm pilot (subtext there reads > > "LIFE") dumped > > after the batteries got knocked loose by a nameless > > person and I'm in a > > little crisis. Lemme know what you guys think. > > Bjarne? > > > > Jeff > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > > http://search.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 10:53:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69ErqHP010969 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:53:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69EoAsU003288 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:50:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Eo8hx001868; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:50:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h69Enihx001535 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:49:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OuKoJ3NZ/B9aHRLHGpUYEFs=">; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 07:49:19 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H4NFNPPE; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 07:49:19 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:53:55 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? Message-ID: <20030709.074810.1588.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-29 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-DCC-SdV-Metrics: net.indra.com 1179; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I read something a long time ago that had her at about 5'2". She thought Mary, Queen of Scots was absurdly tall. Arlys On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 23:38:30 +0100 Lynne Connolly writes: > At 15:13 08/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >How tall was Queen Elizabeth I? What modern equivalent dress size > was > >she? Davenport says a jacket of hers is in the Elizabeth Day > McCormic > >collection in the Boston Fine Arts Museum, if that's any help > (Davenport > >compares her size with that of a ten-year-old girl). There must be > other > >garments of hers around, mustn't there? > > There's a wax effigy of her in the museum of Westminster Abbey. It > was used > at her funeral, as was customary in those days. > > > Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT > Award winning Historical Romance author. > The Richard and Rose books from > Novelbooks Inc. > YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE > VANESSA from Awe-Struck books > http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 10:53:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69ErrHP010972 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:53:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Eo1sU003265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Eo0hx001781; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h69Enihx001549 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:49:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OuKoJ3NZ/B9aiPtmrTqajHc=">; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 07:49:19 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H4NFNPPJ; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 07:49:19 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:09:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] list admin announcement Message-ID: <20030709.074810.1588.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-DCC-SdV-Metrics: net.indra.com 1179; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Congratulations! :D Arlys > I would like to announce the arrival of my son, born at 3:45am on > 7/5. > He weighed 8 lbs., 14 oz., and was 20" long. His Apgar scores were 9 > and 10. Name will be announced at the Bris on Sunday. > > ...eliz ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 11:17:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69FHEHP011030 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:17:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69FE6sU005629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:14:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69FE4R8017600; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:14:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law8-f10.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69FE1R8017524 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:13:55 -0700 Received: from 207.96.224.159 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:13:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.96.224.159] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores and men Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:13:55 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jul 2003 15:13:55.0832 (UTC) FILETIME=[B6F1EF80:01C3462C] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I have gotten incredulous looks and minor comments about the amount of >material I buy (the whole bolt, if necessary), or washing wools and >linens in the machine (why would I possibly want that nice wool to >full??!) I think we've all gotten that. I got that look when I bought a whole bolt of *bright pink* linen at 2$/meter. When she asked what I wanted to do with it, I said "I don't know yet, but it can be dyed". The poor girl was so confused :-) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 11:28:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69FS9HP011057 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:28:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69FOdsU006952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:24:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69FOaR8025189; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:24:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69FOVR8025137 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:24:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip144.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.144]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18A006A9E6 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:02:21 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 08:24:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII Message-ID: <3F0BD12A.17653.13ACB9DB@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <5.2.0.9.0.20030709105349.019591c8@pop.ntlworld.com> References: <3F0B1518.26882.10CE12B0@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > At 19:01 08/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >I still remember seeing the same awful French Hood from Anne of a > >Thousand Days in one of the old "Six Wives of Henry VIII" episodes. > >It was beaded or embroidered and looked like something from Victorian > >times (with the jet beaded purses although this one was gold and > >white.) > > > >People keep showing me that and saying "see, you can embroider/bead > >French Hoods" as if *that* were documentation. "But BBC always does > >such a good job on documentation, it has to be right." Yeah, sure. > > It was nothing to do with the BBC. It was produced for Channel 5, the > 'other' terrestrial channel, ie the smallest. The recreations were > deeply naff, I thought. You misunderstood my post. I was saying that they probably rented the hats from the same place that BBC and Anne of a Thousand Days did. You mentioned that it was Channel 5, but my comment about the BBC referred to people looking at the older Six Wives of Henry VIII and saying that it must be documentable because BBC had done it. Unfortunately, the other SWoH8 was done on a budget (unlike the one also done by them near that time on Elizabeth) and they used that awful rental house. I was wondering if this one did as well. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 11:39:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69FdRHP011098 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:39:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69FaJsU008326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:36:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69FaIR8003693; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:36:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h69FaCR8003616 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:36:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-66-127-113-230.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@66.127.113.230 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2003 15:36:11 -0000 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:36:04 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030709092629.D1438-100000@shell.siscom.net> Message-Id: <0D12A0A8-B223-11D7-8080-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 06:28 AM, Drea Leed wrote: > If it's true that the effigy corset in Westminster was from QE's > store, it > might be possible to extrapolate her height based on the height of the > corset. I know that it is around 21 inches around the waist, but is > very > long and narrow. Hard to believe it fit an actual woman! Yeah, but on the "right" kind of body, a 21" corseted waist is pretty average. A long torso'd woman (assuming QEI falls into this range) could naturally have a waist around 21" and be 5'6 or taller. Supermodels do it all the time. ;) Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 12:00:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69G0NHP011132 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:00:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Fv3sU010605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:57:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Fv27R018057; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:57:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Fuw7R017982 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:56:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.167.41] (helo=wamui03.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19aHJS-0005Uq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 11:56:58 -0400 Received: from [192.168.167.61] by EarthlinkWAM via HTTP; Wed Jul 09 11:56:58 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <8054544.1057766218214.JavaMail.nobody@wamui03.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:00:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Web Access Mail version 3.0 Subject: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -------Original Message------- From: Catherine Olanich Raymond Sent: 07/08/03 08:27 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? > On Tuesday 08 July 2003 06:13 pm, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > How tall was Queen Elizabeth I? What modern equivalent dress > size was she? Davenport says a jacket of hers is in the > Elizabeth Day McCormic collection in the Boston Fine Arts > Museum, if that's any help (Davenport compares her size with > that of a ten-year-old girl). There must be other > garments of hers around, mustn't there? (Why do I always try to answer these questions when my books are at the other end of a 30-minute commute? Don't answer that! ) It sounds like there actually _is_ some information we could access on QE I's size, rather than speculating, if someone has the right books to hand. I know Janet Arnold mentions that there's evidence that Elizabeth gained weight at one point (IIRC) and a lot of her gowns had to be remade. As far as I know, there are _no_ surviving garments of QE I that are currently regarded as authentic. Apparently there are accounts of extensive cutting-up and giving-away of Elizabeth's clothes by Queen Anne (James's queen). A couple of things have been pointed out as possible surviving fragments, but if so, they have been re-cut and made into something else (cushion covers, decorative panels on other garments etc.) so we can't extract any size information from them. And I don't think any of them can be _proved_ to have been hers. There are several items -- the Devereux bodice among them (which is I think what Kayta is referring to, if I remember correctly what it's called) -- that are first referenced in the 18th or 19th centuries with family stories attached that they belonged to Elizabeth. These include the stockings and the rather odd summer hat at Hatfield House, a pair of boots, a christening gown and some other odds and ends. On stylistic grounds, some of these are virtually certain to date from later centuries and couldn't have been hers, and for others there is no information one way or the other. This seems to me to be grounds for doubting the attribution of all of them unless more evidence appears. (I should, however, point out that I think there are a couple of pairs of gloves that are exceptions to this and do seem to have a better provenance.) Also, I know we've discussed the "people were smaller back then" issue here in the past, but briefly, apparently the story isn't that simple; from skeletal studies, it seems that average people were very much our size in some periods and smaller in others; it's not a steady upward trend. Unfortunately the Victorian era, which is the "back then" that there's the most evidence for, seems to have been one where people tended to be particularly small (except the best-nourished classes, of course), which is probably why the myth got started. I believe the Elizabethan average was only an inch or so lower than ours. ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 12:08:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69G8fHP011156 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:08:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69G5YsU011569 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:05:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69G5W7R024315; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:05:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69G5T7R024276 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:05:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h69G5Tiv009284 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:05:29 -0400 Message-Id: <200307091605.h69G5Tiv009284@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:01:54 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores and men From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > or washing wools and linens in the machine (why would I > possibly want that nice wool to full??!) While it's obvious how much fabric you're going to buy, I don't bother mentioning whether or not I will follow the manufacturer's care label. It's not like I'm planning to return it if it doesn't full properly. :-) -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 12:10:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GAXHP011169 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:10:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69G7ssU011938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:07:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69G7l7R025998; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:07:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from SRVNODE7.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h69G7b7R025823 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:07:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by SRVNODE7.cho.org; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:07:26 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20030708210303.00a4dec0@pop3.lfchosting.com> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20030708210303.00a4dec0@pop3.lfchosting.com> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:10:40 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: [h-cost] gender issues Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've found at my Joann's two types of male customers - the kind of guy who runs in, looks at the long line at the register and asks for some velcro anyway and can't understand why he should wait in the line because it's long and he only has one item ("can't they open up another register?"). The other kind is the sort of guy who usually buys from a better quality store but only needs lining or something; he's slumming. I found it interesting that at our Joann's the new manager is a man and people have started going to him for questions rather than asking even the few sewing women who work there. It's almost a sexist thing - go to theman because he's better than the women. The one woman I know well who still works there is a bit frustrated. Howeever, there's a Discount Fabrics nearby run by a man who seems to be second generation in the business and really knows his stuff. The longest-term employee for the company is a man with exquisite color sense. The other employees are women and some are good and some aren't - but they all sew. LynnD >At 08:17 PM 7/8/2003 -0600, you wrote: >>Here's one for you to stew over: I (at least for the present) work at a >>fabric store, only recently, and have noticed in the 3 weeks or month >>that I've been there that there's this really wierd gender dynamic >>about a guy working at a fabric store, with the customers and the >>workers. It's really really messed up in this case enough that I'm >>talking to a lawyer, but have any of you ever noticed a "ew. there's a >>MAN in the FABRIC STORE" reaction from a lot of stitch bitches? I've >>noticed it as being a customer in some stores, but never took note of >>it until now. Sorry, I'm snarky and tweaked out right now with that and >>other things and my palm pilot (subtext there reads "LIFE") dumped >>after the batteries got knocked loose by a nameless person and I'm in a >>little crisis. Lemme know what you guys think. Bjarne? >> >>Jeff > >Sorry this is happening to you. It isn't right regardless of the >circumstances. If you are competent at what you do (and if we >compare you to a lot of the women working in fabric stores, that >isn't always very difficult comparatively), then no one should care >about anything else about you. Good luck, I hope that it works out. >maryann -- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 12:14:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GEDHP011183 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:14:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GBNsU012399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:11:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GBK7R028986; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:11:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h69GBF7R028914 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:11:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 72918 invoked by uid 1005); 9 Jul 2003 16:11:08 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.074844 secs); 09 Jul 2003 16:11:08 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.074844 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 9 Jul 2003 16:11:08 -0000 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:11:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? In-Reply-To: <8054544.1057766218214.JavaMail.nobody@wamui03.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20030709120501.K1438-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > It sounds like there actually _is_ some information we could access on > QE I's size, rather than speculating, if someone has the right books to > hand. I know Janet Arnold mentions that there's evidence that Elizabeth > gained weight at one point (IIRC) and a lot of her gowns had to be > remade. I've read this, too. I'm currently transcribing the wardrobe accounts Arnold based QEWU on (but didn't bother to publish :P ) and there are several reference in 1573 and 1574 to "enlarginge and pecing bodies" of various gowns. Unfortunately, in all the looking I've done, I've found no measurements of height. In Turberville's book of hunting, she is depicted as only a few inches shorter than the surrounding men...though how much of this is fact and how much glorification is unknown. BTW, speaking of Elizabethan stuff: I have been looking for a source for "bent rope", or twisted rope made out of 1 to 1.5 mm reeds, for a while now with no luck. Anyone have any ideas or sources for such a thing? Thanks, Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 12:24:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GO2HP011216 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:24:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GKbsU013485 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:20:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GKX7R006255; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:20:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GKV7R006189 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:20:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.180.1d027a1f (3932) for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:20:18 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <180.1d027a1f.2c3d9ac2@aol.com> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:20:18 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/9/2003 8:29:28 AM Central Standard Time, drea@nospam writes: > If it's true that the effigy corset in Westminster was from QE's store, it > might be possible to extrapolate her height based on the height of the > corset. I know that it is around 21 inches around the waist, but is very > long and narrow. Hard to believe it fit an actual woman! > Anybody know what the exact measurements of the back length, shoulder width, etc? -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 12:29:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GTfHP011228 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:29:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GR3sU014331 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:27:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GR17R010983; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GQv7R010842 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:26:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1e6.cdab4b6 (3932) for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:26:40 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <1e6.cdab4b6.2c3d9c40@aol.com> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:26:40 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/9/2003 11:11:41 AM Central Standard Time, drea@nospam writes: > BTW, speaking of Elizabethan stuff: I have been looking for a source for > "bent rope", or twisted rope made out of 1 to 1.5 mm reeds, for a while > now with no luck. Anyone have any ideas or sources for such a thing? > Buy a a big ol' coil of reed, boiled 'em up, grab some buddies and sturdy gloves and start a-twistin'? Man, I'm not helpful this morning -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 12:33:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GXRHP011246 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:33:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GUEsU014632 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:30:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GUC7R013276; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:30:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com (rhenium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GU77R013200 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:30:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host217-39-7-190.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.7.190] helo=dan) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #23) id 19aHpW-0001h7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:30:06 +0100 Message-ID: <001e01c34637$5c330920$be0727d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030709120501.K1438-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:30:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drea wrote: > > Unfortunately, in all the looking I've done, I've found no measurements of > height. I assume people are familiar with her exchange with the Scottish Ambassador on this question; I'm not aware of any other direct evidence. Since I am rather short I don't want to know, either... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 12:35:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GZsHP011252 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:35:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GWesU014919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:32:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GWa7R015246; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:32:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h69GWV7R015163 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:32:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 44871 invoked by uid 1005); 9 Jul 2003 16:32:25 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.067582 secs); 09 Jul 2003 16:32:25 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.067582 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 9 Jul 2003 16:32:24 -0000 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:32:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? In-Reply-To: <1e6.cdab4b6.2c3d9c40@aol.com> Message-ID: <20030709123107.W1438-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah heck, I'm lazy. :) If it's for sale anywhere, I'd rather buy it. But it's looking more and more like I'll have to make some myself...I get the whole rope making concept, but am puzzled as to how to splice new reeds in and keep the circumference of the whole thing even. Drea On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 LoreleiMorte@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/9/2003 11:11:41 AM Central Standard Time, > drea@nospam writes: > > > BTW, speaking of Elizabethan stuff: I have been looking for a source for > > "bent rope", or twisted rope made out of 1 to 1.5 mm reeds, for a while > > now with no luck. Anyone have any ideas or sources for such a thing? > > > > Buy a a big ol' coil of reed, boiled 'em up, grab some buddies and sturdy > gloves and start a-twistin'? > > Man, I'm not helpful this morning > -Sarra Wryght > Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html > Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 12:39:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GdbHP011266 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:39:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Ga9sU015377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:36:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Ga87R017826; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:36:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Ga57R017708 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:36:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.f4.2e77c554 (3932) for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:35:58 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:35:57 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/9/2003 11:33:06 AM Central Standard Time, drea@nospam writes: > Ah heck, I'm lazy. :) If it's for sale anywhere, I'd rather buy it. > > But it's looking more and more like I'll have to make some myself...I get > the whole rope making concept, but am puzzled as to how to splice new > reeds in and keep the circumference of the whole thing even. > You've probably already thought of this, but there's a lot of furniture made out of what looks like twisted ropes of reeds...it's gotta come from somewhere.. -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 12:48:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GmsHP011303 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:48:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GjjsU016328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:45:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GjhG9024905; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:45:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GjeG9024859 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:45:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net ([67.124.117.215]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HHR009H5NQIO5@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:39:56 -0700 From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores and men In-reply-to: <20030709021613.66148.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030709093403.00b2e550@pop.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:16 PM 7/8/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Here's one for you to stew over: I (at least for the present) work at a >fabric store, only recently, and have noticed in the 3 weeks or month >that I've been there that there's this really wierd gender dynamic >about a guy working at a fabric store, with the customers and the >workers. It's really really messed up in this case enough that I'm >talking to a lawyer, but have any of you ever noticed a "ew. there's a >MAN in the FABRIC STORE" reaction from a lot of stitch bitches? I've >noticed it as being a customer in some stores, but never took note of >it until now. Sorry, I'm snarky and tweaked out right now with that and >other things and my palm pilot (subtext there reads "LIFE") dumped >after the batteries got knocked loose by a nameless person and I'm in a >little crisis. Lemme know what you guys think. Bjarne? > >Jeff I was curious (and a little put off by the description "stitch bitches"), so I asked Stephen, my local expert on being a guy, if he got the feeling that women were doing the "Eeeeewwwwww, there's a guy in our store," thing, and he said yes. OTOH, if he goes in for something specific and asks the clerks, they are immediately very helpful. He compared the reaction he gets to the one I get when I walk into a gun store--rather condescending, or completely ignored. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 12:51:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GpVHP011310 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:51:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GmTsU016597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:48:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GmSG9026671; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:48:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GmPG9026631 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:48:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net ([67.124.117.215]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HHR0096ENXGNQ@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:46:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:44:06 -0700 From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] list admin announcement In-reply-to: <20030709025314.GA5185@net.indra.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030709094336.00b51e18@pop.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:53 PM 7/8/2003 -0600, you wrote: >Sorry I haven't been available for admin concerns, but ... > >I would like to announce the arrival of my son, born at 3:45am on 7/5. >He weighed 8 lbs., 14 oz., and was 20" long. His Apgar scores were 9 >and 10. Name will be announced at the Bris on Sunday. > > ...eliz Mazel Tov! Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 12:58:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GwKHP011328 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:58:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Gt8sU017318 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:55:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Gt4AQ002181; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:55:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69GsvX6001940 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:54:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.b0.3bd10137 (3932) for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:54:46 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:54:45 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/9/2003 11:36:48 AM Central Standard Time, LoreleiMorte@aol.com writes: > > You've probably already thought of this, but there's a lot of furniture made > > out of what looks like twisted ropes of reeds...it's gotta come from > somewhere.. > Woo, I'm replying to myself. I was curious about Drea's reed rope problem and while I didn't find any reed ropes, (did find some braided reed rope, but I don't think that's what she's looking for) did find a lot of cool stuff that could be used for neato things like corsets and corded petticoats, etc... http://www.franksupply.com/basketry.html Any Cane Chair making website seems to have lots of neat stuff, and dirt cheap. -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 13:14:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HEkHP011371 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:14:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HBRsU019254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:11:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69H5lAQ010642; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:05:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69H4rAQ010230 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:04:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (adsl-67-124-117-215.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [67.124.117.215]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h69H4lFw015924 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030709095233.00b53e68@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:02:24 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores and men In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:42 AM 7/9/2003 -0400, Christine wrote: >However, in New York City, which is where I highly prefer to shop, since it's >really only 10 minutes more on the road than JoAnn's, no one bats an eye at >all the male clerks, cutters, etc. My "usual" store, on Broadway (P&S >Fabrics) >is made up of an entirely male staff with the exception of one or two women. >And the fashion fabric guy knows me there, so I can sometimes get discounts. >He also didn't bat an eye when I bought $300 worth of fabric for a school >play. And this sums up all the reasons I drive to Los Angeles 2-3 times a year to make a big purchase of fabrics. Our local Hancock's is OK for little things (I nearly cleaned them out when they marked all their notions 50% off and I "stocked up"), and JoAnn's is a laughingstock. I deal mostly with fabric jobbers, and I would say that with only a couple of exceptions they are all men, and all have grown up with some connection with the "shmatte trade." Also, these guys are willing to haggle--when was the last time you could "lean" on the clerk in JoAnn's or Hancock's and get them to drop the price another 20% if you take the entire bolt? Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 13:25:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HPbHP011389 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:25:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HMosU020400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:22:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HMnAQ024136; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:22:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HMgAQ024031 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:22:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 024AB369BA for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:22:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19aIeO-0007zQ-00 for ; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:22:40 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:dress form help/regency In-Reply-To: <20030708034909.94140.qmail@web40311.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200307080121.h681L7Ef009722@net.indra.com> <20030708034909.94140.qmail@web40311.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:22:40 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Irene wrote: > OK, so how do you manage the lacing up the back? All I > could think of was to turn the back to the front, lace > it and then twist it back. The trick is to have a long enough lace that you don't have to actually lace it each time you wear it... you just loosen it to take it off, and tighten it to put it on. Also, having a secondary front fastening (like the hook-and-eye busks you see) makes it better because you don't have to unlace it so far to get out of it, and so it doesn't get all loopy and hard to figure out later. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 13:49:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HnkHP011460 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:49:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HlSsU023096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:47:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HlSAQ012987; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:47:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav17.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HlHAQ012806 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:47:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:47:12 -0700 Received: from 12.89.9.56 by bay1-dav17.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:47:12 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [12.89.9.56] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030709.085256.-519975.1.catpurson@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:52:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jul 2003 17:47:12.0310 (UTC) FILETIME=[20791D60:01C34642] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I also have no data at all but a while ago I recall reading that Mry Stuart was close to 6' and that genetic doctor's claim she had some disease that made the bones long and the people highly strung and that it was a stuart malady. Her father was prone to mood fits and was overly tall. Anyone recall this?? Bice http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? > I hate to jump in without my references at hand, but I do know > that I read she was well above average in height. At that time the well > to do were about on the par with us modern folk (or so I read). I have > seen several references to Mary Stuart being almost six feet tall (did a > lot of research on her and believe this is correct). Somehow, I always > thought of QE1 as being in the five foot seven to nine inch range, but, > like I said, I don't remember the sources. Sorry, I doubt that this is a > bit of help. > > Lalah > Never give up, Never surrender > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 13:52:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Hq0HP011467 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:52:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HnjsU023348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:49:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HngAQ014632; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:49:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HncAQ014584 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:49:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h69HnYiv001416 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:49:34 -0400 Message-Id: <200307091749.h69HnYiv001416@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:45:59 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] clothing on display at Colonial Williamsburg? From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You're in luck, Melanie! The De Witt Wallace presently has a huge costume exhibit up. They're in a much bigger space that what is normally used for textiles & clothing. The exhibit is up (I think) through November and is very much worth seeing. -Carol > I'll be taking a road trip at the end of next week, and I'd like to > visit Colonial Williamsburg on the way since I've never been there. I > was wondering if any of their historic clothing collection is on > display? I believe Ron Carnegie works there and is also on this list...Ron? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 13:53:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Hr1HP011471 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:53:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HiTsU022721 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:44:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HiPAQ010725; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:44:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HiLAQ010678 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:44:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-029scfairp0444.dialsprint.net ([63.179.121.190] helo=faucet.net) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19aIzM-0004GQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:44:20 -0700 Message-ID: <3F0C620E.3080404@faucet.net> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:42:22 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <18.328fedb4.2c3c9d01@cs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] clothing on display at Colonial Williamsburg? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings I'll be taking a road trip at the end of next week, and I'd like to visit Colonial Williamsburg on the way since I've never been there. I was wondering if any of their historic clothing collection is on display? I believe Ron Carnegie works there and is also on this list...Ron? Thanks, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 13:54:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HsKHP011477 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:54:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HphsU023582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:51:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HpgAQ016227; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:51:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HpbAQ016037 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:51:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.50.1f6fed0d (3948) for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:51:27 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <50.1f6fed0d.2c3db01f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:51:27 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] clothing on display at Colonial Williamsburg? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/9/2003 1:50:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, aquazoo@patriot.net writes: > The exhibit is up (I think) through November and is very > much worth seeing. > Ditto. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 13:55:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Ht0HP011481 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:55:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HlJsU023069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:47:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HlJAQ012890; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:47:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav39.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.96]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HlFAQ012781 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:47:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:47:10 -0700 Received: from 12.89.9.56 by bay1-dav39.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:47:09 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [12.89.9.56] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3.0.6.32.20030708200509.0110c560@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] list admin announcement Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:48:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jul 2003 17:47:10.0071 (UTC) FILETIME=[1F237870:01C34642] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It is!! Mazel tov!! Bice http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margo Anderson" To: "Historical Costume" ; "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 11:05 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] list admin announcement > Congratulations! that's wonderful news! > > Margo > > > "One Tough Costumer" > > www.margospatterns.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 13:56:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HuNHP011486 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:56:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HrBsU023724 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:53:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69HrAAQ017357; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:53:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Hr7AR017220 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:53:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-224.sonic.net [209.148.112.224]) by eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h69Hr0hl017235 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:53:01 -0700 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030709104559.0330fe00@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:54:54 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores and men In-Reply-To: <20030709.074810.1588.1.Cley@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. Although most fabric store employees here seem to be women, some are men. Britex, the big-fancy-expensive store, has a couple of male clerks, the same ones for years. Since Britex's policy is to help customers find fabrics whether they want help or not, I try to hook up with my favorite clerk, who is one of the men. He's the one who best seems to understand what I am doing and to provide actual help finding things. In Oakland there is a store called Silk Road that is owned by two men who also staff it. They seem knowledgeable about fabric, and no one seems to have problems buying from them. I've also seen male clerks on occasion at other stores. My husband can only sew a little, but he's pretty good with finding fabric, matching thread, etc. I often send him on errands, as in "pick up the following thread and notions for me on the way home," or to other parts of the store when we are both in it. As far as I can tell, all the clerks treat him like any other customer. One factor is that, some clerks at some stores think it's weird to buy costuming type fabrics or the large quantities often needed. This has nothing to do with gender. Female clerks sometimes do it to me--look askance at me when I buy 10 yards of a fabric instead of the 3 or so they expect customers to buy. Fran At 07:02 AM 7/9/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Our guys here have no trouble. If anyone asks, they say they're with the >local SCA, which has a large presence here (three big branches within >spitting distance of the best fabric stores around). Clerks tend to smile >and nod. :) > >If a guy works in a fabric store, more power to him! > >Arlys Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 14:04:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69I4bHP011513 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:04:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69FlpsU009697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:47:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69FlmR8011741; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:47:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69FlkR8011630 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:47:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessica.webwarren.com (h-64-105-120-98.NYCMNY83.covad.net [64.105.120.98]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by webwarren.com (8.12.8/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h69Flc7S012383 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:47:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030709113810.045dd008@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: arachne@pop.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 11:46:51 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Subject: Re: Re: Re: [h-cost] Caraco jacket fantasy? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carol Kocian wrote: > Beware - the Distaff Sketch Book is a bad source. Anything decent > is plagerized without citation. That's why the same caraco is in Arnold, > it's copied from there. I figured as much about it being a bad source, and seeing the same caraco copied, well... I was just looking for examples to describe to Bjarne. It was an inexpensive publication that was enough to satisfy my interest at the time, and it's not a period that I've researched in any detail whatsoever. I hoped to have put in enough info in my previous post to give the list an idea of the reliability (or lack thereof!) of the source. Thanks for the confirmation of it in more detail. >A much better book was recently published - Whatever Shall I Wear, A Guide >to Assembling a Woman's Basic 18th Century Wardrobe by Mara Riley, >illustrated by Kate Johnson. There's not much about caracos specifically, >but it's a well-researched, beautifully illustrated book! Sounds interesting... something to add to the list of things I might like to look at at some future date (too busy right now, and looking primarily at other places/periods). Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 14:30:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69IUEHP011561 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:30:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69IRNsU027829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:27:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69IRLHT012719; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:27:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69IRGHT012644 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:27:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h69ISWjp031874 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:28:32 -0700 Message-ID: <3F0C5DCF.8020806@misc.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 11:24:15 -0700 From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Web Sites References: <20030709071516.76230.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To Nicole- Got it!!! Thanks so much for your time. What a wonderful new site, although the old one was quite valuable and fun to prowl around in also!!! Theresa Eacker N Kipar wrote: > > It's in 'Living History' and under the chapter 'photo galleries'. The direct > link is here: > > http://www.kipar.org/society/galleries_timetravel.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 14:32:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69IWQHP011565 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:32:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69ITFsU028036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:29:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69ITDHT014141; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:29:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69ITAHT014034 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:29:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp03509979pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net[68.54.185.111](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <200307091829050160029k60e> (Authid: cozit); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:29:05 +0000 Message-ID: <3F0C5EFE.5090704@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:29:18 -0400 From: Cozit / Liz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] clothing on display at Colonial Williamsburg? References: <200307091753.h69HrMAR017577@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The DeWitt - Wallace has a room just for clothing and embroidery (and other textiles)... Unless they're in the middle of making a major change to the exhibit there's always something. Having said that, as a heads up... Double check the hours of the room before you head over there. I know that someone told me that it's always open now, but just a few years ago it had fairly limited hours... which weren't actually listed on the program for the Colonial area. *G* I got *very* *very* lucky... I was complaining (nicely, but I was very unhappy because I had to leave the area before it was supposed to open for the afternoon) at the information desk about how it was mentioned specifically, but that no mention had been given of the limited hours, and I had walked all the way over there *just* for that exhibit... and one of the curators for the room just happened to be nearby, and on her way to the room. She was *so* nice... not only did she let me in, but she let me stay there all by my lonesome in the (then) locked room when she had to leave about 30 min. later... though she did turn the lights by the doors off .... no prob, I was checking out the samplers at that point :-) .... Best ever trip for me there... I had the chance at a 30 min chat with the Tailor who happened to be in "his shop" that day as well... about stays, corsets, and undertrimmings in general.) I'm going to have to chose between CW and the Jamestown (including the re-enactment area) this year... kiddies are coming along, so I'm thinking it'll be Jamestown this summer.... -Elisabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 14:33:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69IXkHP011572 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:33:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69IUesU028210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:30:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69IUcHT015595; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:30:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69IUaHT015565 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:30:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-029scfairp0444.dialsprint.net ([63.179.121.190] helo=faucet.net) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19aJi7-0001tP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 11:30:36 -0700 Message-ID: <3F0C6CE5.8000700@faucet.net> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:28:37 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] clothing on display at Colonial Williamsburg? References: <200307091749.h69HnYiv001416@jefferson.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO aquazoo@patriot.net wrote: > You're in luck, Melanie! The De Witt Wallace presently has a huge costume > exhibit up. They're in a much bigger space that what is normally used for > textiles & clothing. The exhibit is up (I think) through November and is very > much worth seeing. Oooh! Thanks! rubbing hands gleefully... Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 14:39:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69IdWHP011588 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:39:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69IaVsU028929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:36:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69IaSHT020202; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:36:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69IaMHT020088 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:36:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-029scfairp0444.dialsprint.net ([63.179.121.190] helo=faucet.net) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19aJnh-0003Wk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 11:36:22 -0700 Message-ID: <3F0C6E3F.8090808@faucet.net> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:34:23 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] clothing on display at Colonial Williamsburg? References: <200307091753.h69HrMAR017577@net.indra.com> <3F0C5EFE.5090704@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cozit / Liz wrote: > The DeWitt - Wallace has a room just for clothing and embroidery (and > other textiles)... Unless they're in the middle of making a major change > to the exhibit there's always something. > > Having said that, as a heads up... Double check the hours of the room > before you head over there. Ah--thanks. I'll check on that before I leave. Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 14:42:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69IgOHP011592 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:42:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Ie2sU029304 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:40:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Ie1HT022571; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69IdvHT022526 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:39:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h69Idviv027974 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:39:57 -0400 Message-Id: <200307091839.h69Idviv027974@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:36:23 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] clothing on display at Colonial Williamsburg? From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's worth checking the hours, and the textiles room does have limited hours. The current exhibit, however, should be open any time the museum is open. It's a very special thing! Usually that area has furniture, though I think it has always been major exhibits that change every year. -Carol Cozit / Liz said: > Having said that, as a heads up... Double check the hours of the room > before you head over there. I know that someone told me that it's > always open now, but just a few years ago it had fairly limited hours... > which weren't actually listed on the program for the Colonial area. *G* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 14:52:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Iq9HP011612 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:52:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69ImasU000270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:48:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69ImYHT029128; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:48:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69ImSHT028940 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:48:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KKlocko@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.95.2fec42fb (15887) for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:48:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-d19.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.135]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v94.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID82-3e0f3f0c636b200; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:48:11 -0400 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:48:11 -0400 From: KKlocko@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4AFBECB5.4E084432.0016BF3A@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] More Gothic fitted dress fitting questions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, I've recently been interested in making a Gothic Fitted dress for myself, however, for various medical reasons my weight keeps changing, plus I can't stand pressure on my abdomen. Which fitting method (curved front or straight front) would be best? Help? Is there any way to make this dress accomodate large fluctuations in weight? Robin? Tasha? Anyone? --Kathy K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 15:16:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69JG8HP011675 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:16:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69JDfsU002828 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:13:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69JDdgY017935; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:13:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69JDZgY017859 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:13:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bently (bgates@c-67-168-13-62.client.comcast.net [67.168.13.62]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA19801 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:13:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <016801c3464e$61def160$3e0da843@comcast.net> From: "David" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030709025314.GA5185@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] list admin announcement Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:25:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mazel Tov! Pam Dotson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Lear" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 7:53 PM Subject: [h-cost] list admin announcement > Sorry I haven't been available for admin concerns, but ... > > I would like to announce the arrival of my son, born at 3:45am on 7/5. > He weighed 8 lbs., 14 oz., and was 20" long. His Apgar scores were 9 > and 10. Name will be announced at the Bris on Sunday. > > ...eliz > > > -- > "The decision to have a child is to accept that your heart will > forever walk about outside of your body" - Katharine Hadley > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 16:00:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69K0MHP011862 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:00:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69JwAsU007749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:58:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Jw8mK021874; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:58:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Jw4mK021812 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:58:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19aL4l-0002Ra-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:58:03 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:58:05 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c34654$69bae8c0$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Three middle-class English Women picture online? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Okay, I give up..who can tell me where I can find a picture of the three middle-class English Women (gossips?) online? I know I've seen it somewhere, but can't, for the life of me, find it now! Thanks in advance, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 9 16:01:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69K1EHP011867 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:01:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Jt1tK007352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:58:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69JfwgY009456; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:41:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69JfngY009288 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:41:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-237-231.client.attbi.com[12.246.237.231](untrusted sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003070919414401300k6v8re>; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 19:41:44 +0000 Message-ID: <3F0C6FFA.8000106@fenris.net> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:41:46 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: splicing, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? References: <20030709123107.W1438-100000@shell.siscom.net> In-Reply-To: <20030709123107.W1438-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A long splice is used to join rope pieces together. It is not lumpy (when done properly - takes practice) and was developed to allow the spliced rope to travel through pulleys and eyes and not bind or jam. Here is a page with instructions http://www.wdcra.org.uk/study/long.htm I have no idea how this would work with reed. liz young Drea Leed wrote: >Ah heck, I'm lazy. :) If it's for sale anywhere, I'd rather buy it. > >But it's looking more and more like I'll have to make some myself...I get >the whole rope making concept, but am puzzled as to how to splice new >reeds in and keep the circumference of the whole thing even. > >Drea > >On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 LoreleiMorte@aol.com wrote: > > > >>In a message dated 7/9/2003 11:11:41 AM Central Standard Time, >>drea@nospam writes: >> >> >> >>>BTW, speaking of Elizabethan stuff: I have been looking for a source for >>>"bent rope", or twisted rope made out of 1 to 1.5 mm reeds, for a while >>>now with no luck. Anyone have any ideas or sources for such a thing? >>> >>> >>> >>Buy a a big ol' coil of reed, boiled 'em up, grab some buddies and sturdy >>gloves and start a-twistin'? >> >>Man, I'm not helpful this morning >>-Sarra Wryght >> >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:30:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEUwHP014129 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:30:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEPu0P025865 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:25:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEP4Du019219; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:25:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEO6Du018504 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:24:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A70090034C; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:24:00 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] US Airline restrictions - sewing stuff (?) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:23:59 -0500 Message-ID: <001801c346ee$e88818e0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <5EA74AC2.2F048A84.349D0FDF@cs.com> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Run down to the sewing or quilting store- there is a little round thread cutter that is only a couple of dollars- it has several slots for the thread to fall into to touch the cutting blade-which is permanently covered. I have one I wear to camping events, on a necklace or string it is handy and almost un-losable, and passes for a pendant. Worth a look-see. Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of ConstanceFairfax@cs.com Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 9:12 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] US Airline restrictions - sewing stuff (?) Hi- I'm making a coast-to-coast run this weekend with fairly long layovers & I'd like to get some hemming/handwork finished. Since 9/11, I know some of my coworkers have had their manicure set scissors taken away. I want to be completely on the up-and-up, but I also don't want to be bored out of my skull. Have any of you traveled in the US lately with sewing implements? Are needles (little sharps) ok? How about snips? I assume ghingers are still out. I can imagine trying to get through with a set of pinking shears. :) Constance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:32:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEWUHP014690 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:32:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AERT0P026009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:27:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEQpDu020670; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:26:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6AEQnDu020646 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:26:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 69167 invoked by uid 1005); 10 Jul 2003 14:26:44 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.104531 secs); 10 Jul 2003 14:26:44 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.104531 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 14:26:43 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:26:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] US Airline restrictions - sewing stuff (?) In-Reply-To: <5EA74AC2.2F048A84.349D0FDF@cs.com> Message-ID: <20030710101625.U24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Little scissors are apparently bad juju (after all, we have to protect upstanding americans from the rampaging masses of commuting homicidal seamstresses out there), but in some cases, nail-clippers make it through. I use my teeth. As for needles: again, technically they aren't allowed. Apparently the airport security forces are convinced that Terrorist X will attempt to poke someone to death with a needle rather than, say, the far more deadly ballpoint pen or number 2 pencil, both of which are allowed. But you can unscrew a metal ballpoint pen and slip a needle inside, and it will go through the carry-on scan just fine. Not that I would EVER do something illegal like that, or advocate such activity to any other parties. ;> On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 ConstanceFairfax@cs.com wrote: > Hi- > > I'm making a coast-to-coast run this weekend with fairly long layovers & I'd like to get some hemming/handwork finished. Since 9/11, I know some of my coworkers have had their manicure set scissors taken away. > > I want to be completely on the up-and-up, but I also don't want to be bored out of my skull. Have any of you traveled in the US lately with sewing implements? Are needles (little sharps) ok? How about snips? I assume ghingers are still out. I can imagine trying to get through with a set of pinking shears. :) > > Constance > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:33:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEXVHP015038 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:33:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AET90P026237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:29:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AESRDu021664; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:28:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AESNDu021546 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:28:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1cc.d718741 (4320) for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:28:04 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <1cc.d718741.2c3ed1f4@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:28:04 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/10/2003 8:15:28 AM Central Standard Time, melanie@faucet.net writes: > This whole experiment sounds fascinating! > > Drea Leed wrote: > > >I'm really looking forward to making a farthingale out of it. I think > >I'll do the spiral-up-the-farthingale method, rather than separate rings, > >to avoid kinking. > > I can picture this, but I've never heard of it--was it done in the 16th > century? > Any chance you have a digital camera and want to slap a few pics on the 'net of the process? -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:37:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEbtHP016561 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:37:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEXh0P026792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:33:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEXfDu024897; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:33:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6AEXdDu024872 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:33:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 88486 invoked by uid 1005); 10 Jul 2003 14:33:34 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.076452 secs); 10 Jul 2003 14:33:34 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.076452 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 14:33:33 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:33:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope In-Reply-To: <1cc.d718741.2c3ed1f4@aol.com> Message-ID: <20030710103324.S24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sure thang! I'll be bringing it to Push to work on...will you be there? Drea On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 LoreleiMorte@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/10/2003 8:15:28 AM Central Standard Time, > melanie@faucet.net writes: > > > This whole experiment sounds fascinating! > > > > Drea Leed wrote: > > > > >I'm really looking forward to making a farthingale out of it. I think > > >I'll do the spiral-up-the-farthingale method, rather than separate rings, > > >to avoid kinking. > > > > I can picture this, but I've never heard of it--was it done in the 16th > > century? > > > > Any chance you have a digital camera and want to slap a few pics on the 'net > of the process? > > -Sarra Wryght > Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html > Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:39:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEdJHP017057 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:39:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ADXa0P021160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:33:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ADXJOf018826; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:33:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41903.mail.yahoo.com (web41903.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6ADXGOf018774 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:33:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030710133309.35127.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.164.163.130] by web41903.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:33:09 PDT Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:33:09 -0700 (PDT) From: sheree krasley To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] re: gothic fitted dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As the victim...er model for Tasha, I have to say from my own experience that the front curved gown seemed to have much less tightness across the abdomen. The straight front seam felt like it was much more confining across the ribs and becuase of that the diaphragm could not expand properly, hence the corseted feeling. Now I know some of the pre 1340's style gowns were not nearly a tighly fit along to torso as well as some of the Italian styles. If tighness across the abdomen is an issue I would look to those styles, they still look quite wonderful and would be much more comfortable. - Sheree PS I had a lot of fun working with Tasha, learned tons and got two great gowns out of it to boot. :) --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:39:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEdJHR017057 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:39:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ADYK0P021227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:34:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ADY5Of019224; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:34:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ADXfOf018970 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:33:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from FABRICHOARDER@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1c6.c753b1a (15864) for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:33:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m09.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.137]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v94.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID63-3df83f0d6b2c3d5; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:33:33 -0400 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:33:32 -0400 From: FABRICHOARDER@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redneck fabric stores and men MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <03A5C64C.21952046.E9DE60AC@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fabric with tractors on it? You could do a historical interpretation of a WWII-era dress. Picture this: a woman writing to her boyfriend overseas, saying she's breaking off the engagement to stay home & work on the farm--a John Deere letter. Dear John, get it? Ramona _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:39:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEdKHP017066 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:39:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEZb0P026927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:35:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEZbDu025963; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:35:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41511.mail.yahoo.com (web41511.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6AEZWDu025886 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:35:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030710143527.8861.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41511.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:35:27 BST Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:35:27 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] US Airline restrictions - sewing stuff (?) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20030710101625.U24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you ever so much Drea for NOT letting us know about this trick! *big grin* That's so nifty... As for thread cutting: I say it again, take a dental floss package with you. Nicole --- Drea Leed wrote: > > Little scissors are apparently bad juju (after all, we have to protect > upstanding americans from the rampaging masses of commuting homicidal > seamstresses out there), but in some cases, nail-clippers make it > through. I use my teeth. > > As for needles: again, technically they aren't allowed. Apparently the > airport security forces are convinced that Terrorist X will attempt to > poke someone to death with a needle rather than, say, the far more deadly > ballpoint pen or number 2 pencil, both of which are allowed. > > But you can unscrew a metal ballpoint pen and slip a needle inside, and it > will go through the carry-on scan just fine. > > Not that I would EVER do something illegal like that, or advocate such > activity to any other parties. > > ;> > > > > On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 ConstanceFairfax@cs.com wrote: > > > Hi- > > > > I'm making a coast-to-coast run this weekend with fairly long layovers > & I'd like to get some hemming/handwork finished. Since 9/11, I know > some of my coworkers have had their manicure set scissors taken away. > > > > I want to be completely on the up-and-up, but I also don't want to be > bored out of my skull. Have any of you traveled in the US lately with > sewing implements? Are needles (little sharps) ok? How about snips? I > assume ghingers are still out. I can imagine trying to get through with a set > of pinking shears. :) > > > > Constance > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:39:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEdJHT017057 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:39:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ADF80P019550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:15:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ADEqOf008446; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:14:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ADEmOf008416 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:14:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-005scfairp0137.dialsprint.net ([63.184.232.137] helo=faucet.net) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19abG3-0004Dm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:14:48 -0700 Message-ID: <3F0D745F.20208@faucet.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:12:47 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope References: <20030709222327.R15755-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This whole experiment sounds fascinating! Drea Leed wrote: > I'm really looking forward to making a farthingale out of it. I think > I'll do the spiral-up-the-farthingale method, rather than separate rings, > to avoid kinking. I can picture this, but I've never heard of it--was it done in the 16th century? Thanks for keeping us up-to-date! Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:39:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEdJHV017057 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:39:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AD0V0P018532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:00:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AD0FOf001859; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:00:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6AD0DOf001834 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:00:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 17816 invoked by uid 1005); 10 Jul 2003 13:00:09 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.069608 secs); 10 Jul 2003 13:00:09 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.069608 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 13:00:08 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:00:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: splicing, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? In-Reply-To: <3F0CE8DA.4090709@dandy.net> Message-ID: <20030710085730.J24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hi, All. In this case, a rope splice would not be applicable, but it is > possible that reeds could be joined in some way and wrapped, similarly > to the method used for the hoops on barrels and buckets seen in 16th > Cent. paintings. Yup, that's what I ended up doing--taking a bunch, twisting it slightly, and wrapping it tightly with artificial sinew. Nice to know there's a period example of something like this. :) Do you have the names of any pictures that show buckets & barrels with hoops like this? Just a musing thought... In addition, anything that is > made of long fibers joined together has breaks in the fibers at some > point... the idea is to keep the breaks away from each other, and the > spin of the fibers will bind the lot together along the whole length (if > this makes any sense) Mike T. The reeds are pretty bulky; 20 of them create a 5/8 inch diameter cord. I'm going to try hand-twisting some into a two strand rope once I've finished with this method, to see what sort of differences I find between the two methods. Thanks, Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:39:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEdJHX017057 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:39:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ACvi0P018369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:57:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ACvROf000725; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:57:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6ACvNOf000676 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:57:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 11047 invoked by uid 1005); 10 Jul 2003 12:57:19 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.491728 secs); 10 Jul 2003 12:57:19 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.491728 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 12:57:18 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:57:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? In-Reply-To: <54931684-B29B-11D7-8080-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> Message-ID: <20030710085251.G24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > My opinion on the effigy corset is that it wasn't made specifically > *for* Elizabeth and then put to use on the effigy after her death. > Call it costumer's intuition, but I think it was likely made > specifically for the effigy after her death, in the style of the time. > There's no real evidence that I've seen that suggests it was actually > worn on a living human being (and the fact that the stays are in such > good condition is probably the best testament to this), and I don't > think I've ever come across sources that say whether or not the effigy > was even meant to *resemble* QEI's actual figure, or if it was, say, > taken from a lady in waiting's measurements, etc. There is a photo > of the corset on the effigy: > http://www.elizabethi.org/wardrobe/corset.htm > Here's what Janet Arnold had to say on the subject: "In the course of restoration in 1995 it was discovered that the original wooden armature of the 1603 effigy had been reused in 1760, complete with the original grass padding, drawers, and corset or 'paire of straight-bodies'. This unique garment is likely to have been one of a stock of corsets kept ready for use, needing only to be lined with silk before being worn by the Queen. Its use on the effigy would have made it easy to shape the body to represent the Queen's figure correctly." and "The 'pair of straight bodies' provided by John Colte were probably made by Queen Elizabeth's tailor, William Jones, or one of his journeymen; full details of the maker are not given in the accounts. They were probably made specially for the effigy and are unlikely to have been an old pair worn by the Queen, as those listed in the tailor's warrants for her Wardrobe of Robes are covered with silk or satin." Unfortunately, the summary about the stays in the Westminster Library (which the above is quoted from) doesn't go into details about where she got her information, or what caused her to come to the above conclusions. There will be a pattern for and notes on the effigy corset in her posthumous pattern book (if it ever comes out...) so hopefully there will be a bit more information about it in there. Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:39:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEdJHZ017057 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:39:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AChl0P017369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:43:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AChV56024840; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:43:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (imo-m01.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AChR56024703 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:43:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.ca.1f3c0614 (25914) for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:43:15 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:43:13 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redneck fabric stores and men To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/9/2003 9:05:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, lynnx@grics.net writes: > Where i live you can't find gingham > (I like the 1" for mockups) I don't know why this is getting so hard to find everywhere! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:39:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEdJHb017057 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:39:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ACkF0P017642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:46:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ACk056025840; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:46:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ACju56025788 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:45:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.165.2283f79f (25914) for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:45:50 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <165.2283f79f.2c3eb9fe@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:45:50 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: fabric stores and men To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/9/2003 10:05:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, marcocaprioli@yahoo.com writes: > it's Hancock's I'm having problems with. And of course most of Hancock's top management is male. What about your (former) DM? You are probably better off elsewhere, though. I know from experience that Hancock's pay is not exactly what I would call competitive. (And I still have fabric I bought when I worked there that I will probably never make up! I'm in the process of giving much of it away. My tastes and interests have changed since I worked there.) Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:41:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEfRHP017839 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:41:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A6Y00P025073 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A6Xhq1025616; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:33:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pd2mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A6Xfq1025594 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:33:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pd6mr1so.prod.shaw.ca (pd6mr1so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.216]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HHS003EDQ85AG@l-daemon> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:33:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml8so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml8so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.152]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HHS002F8Q85AL@l-daemon> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:33:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jenpotts (h24-70-101-70.ok.shawcable.net [24.70.101.70]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with SMTP id <0HHS00165Q84QM@l-daemon> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:33:41 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 23:30:37 -0700 From: Jennifer Potts To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <000a01c346ac$c6d876a0$46654618@ok.shawcable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Blackwork shift questions/beading questions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry about my addition to this thread being so behind. Im packing my house to move right now and am VERY behind in my reading. I have a picture of an extant Italian chemise with embroidery around the neck and down the sleeves and body of the chemise. The embroidery goes all the way around the neckline. As soon as I can find it, I will post it on my website for you if you would like. Im sorry, I cant even give you a book to look for right now. All my books are packed and have left for Kamloops already. You can contact me privately if you would like a copy. Jennifer Potts aka Senor Giacyntha Francesca Maria Cocchetti, Shire of Ramsgaard, SCA Message: 1 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:37:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Cascio Michael Subject: [h-cost] blackwork shift questions/beading questions To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-ID: <20030617133723.90188.qmail@web12005.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi All, I'm finally caught up on my posts and have a few questions. On square neck Elizabethan shifts with the blackwork embroidery around the edge of the square neck would the embroidery go around the entire edge or would it just be a band across the front where it would show? I know Janet Arnold mentions a square neck shift somewhere but I don't recall ever seeing a picture of it anywhere. I'm working on a shift with the low square neck and blackwork on the cuffs as per the Helena Snakenborg, although you can't see her shift sleeves underneath that beautifully embroidered partlet and sleeves. Second question---One of the beading magazines I pick up occasionally has some choker patterns that I thought would make nice beaded trims. The chokers were made with a light weight gauge wire but as I want to sew these patterns down to a garment edge should I use wire and make the choker as per the instructions and then sew it onto the velvet? Since I was going to put a band of velvet along the edge of the sleeves and hem, like a guard, I could stitch each bead down to the velvet and then take it off should I need to clean the garment. And since I'm going to put these on a garment should I use flat beads or the round beads the pattern suggests? Any help would be most appreciated. Cassandra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:42:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEgBHP018106 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:42:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A8OC0P002010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 02:24:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A8NuV6013961; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 02:23:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A8NrV6013941 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 02:23:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h6A8Nqp13973.; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:23:52 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:23:52 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:23:17 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bice wrote: Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com 07/09/03 03:52pm >>> >I also have no data at all but a while ago I recall reading that Mry Stuart >was close to 6' and that genetic doctor's claim she had some disease that >made the bones long and the people highly strung and that it was a stuart >malady. Her father was prone to mood fits and was overly tall. Anyone >recall this?? The Channel 4 series "Royal Deaths and Diseases", shown earlier this year, suggested that Mary and her son James may have had porphyria, the condition thought to have caused George III's madness. http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/heads/footnotes/disease04.html though this wouldn't have affected her height, AFAIK. {The series was interesting but not entirely consistent with itself. The programme on mental illness claimed that King George was actually manic depressive.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:43:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEhJHP018489 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:43:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ACNA0P016101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:23:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ACMr56016433; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:22:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ACMo56016398 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:22:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-171.75.228.116.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.228.116] helo=Dan) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19aaRl-0002E9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:22:50 -0400 Message-ID: <012201c346de$2d1d8820$74e44bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030710020418.82383.qmail@web11404.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: fabric stores and men Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:20:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jeff, you gotta consider where Hancock's is based, one of the owner's is named "Bubba" for gosh sakes. No joke. And yes the manager of the store I work at is a man. they still want us to do everything on a skeleton staff, and given the level of knowledge on sewing or lack of that most of our young staff has, oh well. Genie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Brainard" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: fabric stores and men > yeah, it's Hancock's I'm having problems with. I wonder if part of it > is sideways homophobia. I took a new job today, so cross your fingers > girls! > > Jeff > > > > > > Sorry you are having troubles Jeff. A good friend of mine also has > > problems when he goes into fabrics stores to shop, at least Hancock's > > or > > JoAnn's. They know him very well in the two higher-end stores here > > in > > town and he has no problems there. That could also be because, > > especially in one of them, they are very familiar with his work and > > he > > is an awesome costume (started in Civil War and we are sucking him > > into > > Elizabethan, yes I'm trying to get him onto this list :). > > http://www.kcrenfest.com/PhotoGallery/Fops.html. Jason is the > > gentleman on the right and he created all 3 costumes). > > > > I had not really thought of it before but after Jeff has brought this > > up, I don't see very many men in our local fabric stores, at least > > the > > Hancock's and JoAnn's, either working at them or shopping. One of > > the > > remaining, smaller, JoAnn's used to be managed by a man but he has > > since > > left. Both of the higher-end stores do have male employees, one is > > owned by a man. Sounds like any problems might be more with the > > larger > > chains. > > > > Catherine > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:43:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEhkHP018645 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:43:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69NnFsU000599 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:49:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Nmx4a008432; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:48:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h69Nms4a008319 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:48:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCmKbWtqVnYs/DC5qjxjjwmBdeNZZEr/WCA==">; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 19:48:21 EDT Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H4PEHQHV; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 19:48:21 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:52:45 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Caraco Redingote? Message-ID: <20030709.185246.-939567.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-35 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It looks really good. I've been wanting a piece like that for quite some time myself, I'll be following along with great interest. Karen On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:57:18 +0200 "Bjarne og Leif Drews" writes: > Hello again, > My my, i cant cope with all those letters send every day, > But here is my dress diary of the Caraco or Redingote? > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/caraco_jacket.htm > > I think i have made it all right anyway. > It helped a lot when some of you said i should look at Jefferson In > Paris > > Let me know what you think about it! > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:44:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEgBHR018106 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:44:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A8FU0P001492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 02:15:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A8FDV6010278; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 02:15:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41503.mail.yahoo.com (web41503.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6A8FAV6010203 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 02:15:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030710081505.16621.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41503.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:15:05 BST Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:15:05 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Web Sites To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F0C5DCF.8020806@misc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Theresa Eacker wrote: > To Nicole- > > Got it!!! Thanks so much for your time. What a wonderful new site, > although the old one was quite valuable and fun to prowl around in also!!! Thank you Theresa, well it is pretty much the same as the old site, at least when it comes to contents, and actually there are more images than before, but I did remove some pages I did not deem accurate enough or good enough anymore, and mainly, I re-structured it, to reflect the society as well as the research aspect. It wouldn't have taken so long, if I still switched on the computer at home except for rarely... Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:44:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEgBHT018106 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:44:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A81h0P000663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 02:01:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A81QV6004724; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 02:01:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41502.mail.yahoo.com (web41502.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6A81OV6004687 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 02:01:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030710080118.16234.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:01:18 BST Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:01:18 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Web Sites To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F0C9A9E.6030809@grics.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- "H. Law" wrote: > Wheee! Whose graphic work is that? Smooth! > > Heather L Thanks! It's mine, but I must say looking at it, that I could have done it better *laughs* One is never content, is one? ;-) Nicole - still finding lotsof little glitches on the new site... ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:45:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEhkHR018645 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:45:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69KvBsU014423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:57:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69KvA1b009109; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:57:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Kv61b009072 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:57:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-36-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.36.253]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h69Kv5Db008529 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030709131754.00d667f0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:21:28 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? In-Reply-To: <8054544.1057766218214.JavaMail.nobody@wamui03.slb.atl.eart hlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >There are several items -- the Devereux bodice among them (which is I >think what Kayta is referring to, if I remember correctly what it's called) The Devereux bodice is a bodice with a pointed waist in front (I couldn't tell how it was embroidered in the auction house picture I saw), and the garment in Boston is a crewel-embroidered, front-opening jacket-thing. Two different garments. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:45:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEhkHT018645 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:45:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69LBasU016145 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:11:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69LBZ1b021163; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:11:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h69LBT1b021077 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:11:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-121-120-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.121.120.123 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2003 21:11:29 -0000 Message-ID: <007e01c3465f$042e81a0$7b787943@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030709025314.GA5185@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] list admin new baby boy Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:13:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mazel Tov angela lazear ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Lear" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 7:53 PM Subject: [h-cost] list admin announcement > Sorry I haven't been available for admin concerns, but ... > > I would like to announce the arrival of my son, born at 3:45am on 7/5. > He weighed 8 lbs., 14 oz., and was 20" long. His Apgar scores were 9 > and 10. Name will be announced at the Bris on Sunday. > > ...eliz > > > -- > "The decision to have a child is to accept that your heart will > forever walk about outside of your body" - Katharine Hadley > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:45:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEhkHV018645 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:45:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69L9HsU015847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:09:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69L9G1b019277; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:09:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69L9A1b019179 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:09:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-031scfairp0348.dialsprint.net ([158.253.121.94] helo=faucet.net) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19aMBZ-00014h-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:09:09 -0700 Message-ID: <3F0C920E.7070800@faucet.net> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:07:10 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Three middle-class English Women picture online? References: <000001c34654$69bae8c0$6401a8c0@SG01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > Okay, I give up..who can tell me where I can find a picture of the three > middle-class English Women (gossips?) online? I know I've seen it > somewhere, but can't, for the life of me, find it now! Well, you didn't specify a century, but do you mean this one? Only three of them are middle class... http://costume.dm.net/gallery/middle-wmn.html Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:45:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEhkHX018645 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:45:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69L4esU015335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:04:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69L4Z1b015283; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:04:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69L4P1b015085 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:04:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bebe.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.190]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 736F95EE0BC for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:04:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <017101c3465e$205509e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030709113810.045dd008@mail.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Re: Re: [h-cost] Caraco jacket fantasy? Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:07:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Brenda, and Carrol two I much apreciated the help you have given me. Belive me, it is very difficult to make something in between of real fashion and reallity. The fashion print i was looking at was french, and it called the dress to be Asiatique whatever that is, But then it was very fashionabble to dress exotic in those days............... I have now desided to make it this way: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/caraco_jacket.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 5:46 PM Subject: Re: Re: Re: [h-cost] Caraco jacket fantasy? > Carol Kocian wrote: > > > Beware - the Distaff Sketch Book is a bad source. Anything decent > > is plagerized without citation. That's why the same caraco is in Arnold, > > it's copied from there. > > I figured as much about it being a bad source, and seeing the same caraco > copied, well... I was just looking for examples to describe to Bjarne. It > was an inexpensive publication that was enough to satisfy my interest at > the time, and it's not a period that I've researched in any detail whatsoever. > > I hoped to have put in enough info in my previous post to give the list an > idea of the reliability (or lack thereof!) of the source. Thanks for the > confirmation of it in more detail. > > >A much better book was recently published - Whatever Shall I Wear, A Guide > >to Assembling a Woman's Basic 18th Century Wardrobe by Mara Riley, > >illustrated by Kate Johnson. There's not much about caracos specifically, > >but it's a well-researched, beautifully illustrated book! > > Sounds interesting... something to add to the list of things I might like > to look at at some future date (too busy right now, and looking primarily > at other places/periods). > > > > Brenda > webwarren@earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:45:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEhkHZ018645 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:45:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69L8hsU015799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:08:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69L8g1b018881; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:08:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69L8Z1b018787 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:08:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19aMB0-000M1v-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 22:08:34 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 19:43:10 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting tings to see in Glasgow? References: <3F0BDA1C.5000000@kabelfoon.nl> <00ff01c345fa$884500f0$4b160150@Imedia5043> <3F0BDF7D.6070202@kabelfoon.nl> <015d01c34603$2ca2aa50$4b160150@Imedia5043> In-Reply-To: <015d01c34603$2ca2aa50$4b160150@Imedia5043> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To save you banging on the door... no, it's true, the Kelvingrove is CLOSED. There were big articles in all the Scottish news about it, pictures of the chief curator locking the big door... (while I'm sure people were still running in and out with vanloads at the back) Jean Dawn Wood wrote >hmm I know they are refurbishing as my friend is the arms curator and >redesigning the gallery but didn't think they were actually closed go and >stand on the doorstep and hammer until they let you in >Dawn >Ages Of Elegance makers of Historical reproduction Clothing, Uniforms and >Bridalwear > http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Deredere Galbraith" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 10:25 AM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting tings to see in Glasgow? > > >> http://www.glasgowmuseums.com/venue/index.cfm?venueid=4 >> They say Kelvingrove is closed untill 2006 :-( >> >> Greetings, >> Deredere >> >> Dawn Wood wrote: >> >> >there's the Kelvingrove in the city which has a very good armour >collection >> >(William Randolph Hurst's collection) and lots of Rennie mackintosh >things >> >and also the Burrell collection which is just outside set in a lovely >house >> >in fab grounds which has some very nice Tudor embroideries amongst other >> >items >> >Dawn >> >Ages Of Elegance makers of Historical reproduction Clothing, Uniforms and >> >Bridalwear >> > http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Deredere Galbraith" >> >To: "H-Costume" >> >Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 10:02 AM >> >Subject: [h-cost] Interesting tings to see in Glasgow? >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >>In september I will be on vakation for a week in Glasgow, Scotland and I >> >>wonder if there are things I really should see. >> >>Are there musea's with historical costumes?? >> >> >> >>Greetings, >> >> Deredere >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>h-costume mailing list >> >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >> >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >h-costume mailing list >> >h-costume@mail.indra.com >> >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:45:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEhkHb018645 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:45:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69LEGsU016435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:14:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69LEE1b023194; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:14:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.183]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h69LEC1b023169 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:14:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-121-120-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.121.120.123 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2003 21:14:11 -0000 Message-ID: <00e601c3465f$651f66a0$7b787943@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001f01c344c6$ce731dd0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> <200307072337.56001.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cloche hat pattern? Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:16:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have used Alter Years pattern and it's very easy and turns out well. It can easily be modified (I made 65 plus) to have many different looks just by tweaking brim size and adornments. angela Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "O, what a world of vile ill-favored faults looks handsome in three hundred pounds a year!..." The Merry Wives of Windsor, III, iv - W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cloche hat pattern? > On Monday 07 July 2003 04:31 pm, Beteena Paradise wrote: > > This site has a couple of cloche patterns that are $14: > > > > http://www.longago.com/hat.html > > AlterYears also carries the same DL Designs line of hat patterns. > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "You live and learn, or you don't live long." > Robert Heinlein > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:45:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEjtHP019438 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:45:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEgG0P027564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:42:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEgEDu029868; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:42:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEgADu029817 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:42:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail22.ureach.com (mail22.ureach.com [172.16.2.82]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25614 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:42:10 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-223-181.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.223.181]) by mail22.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA10894 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:42:10 -0400 Message-ID: <001001c346f0$e95edef0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5EA74AC2.2F048A84.349D0FDF@cs.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] US Airline restrictions - sewing stuff (?) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:38:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I travel quite a bit with my job and in my experience it depends upon the airport. If it were me, I wouldn't travel with any scissors at all. I have seen where they confiscated cuticle "nippers" at the airport. If you need something to cut thread while you work, I would suggest getting one of those coupon cutter things. You know, the sort of round plastic things with a slit in it where a blade is concealed. It would cut your thread and there would be no danger of it being seen as a weapon. Good luck! Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 10:12 AM Subject: [h-cost] US Airline restrictions - sewing stuff (?) > Hi- > > I'm making a coast-to-coast run this weekend with fairly long layovers & I'd like to get some hemming/handwork finished. Since 9/11, I know some of my coworkers have had their manicure set scissors taken away. > > I want to be completely on the up-and-up, but I also don't want to be bored out of my skull. Have any of you traveled in the US lately with sewing implements? Are needles (little sharps) ok? How about snips? I assume ghingers are still out. I can imagine trying to get through with a set of pinking shears. :) > > Constance > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:46:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEk2HP019481 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:46:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A0desU002773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:39:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A0celt009567; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:38:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A0bvlt009198 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:37:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip249.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.249]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D2206AD84 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:37:56 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:37:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Message-ID: <3F0C52D1.19597.15A72EA0@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In a message dated 7/9/2003 11:33:06 AM Central Standard Time, > drea@nospam writes: > > > Ah heck, I'm lazy. :) If it's for sale anywhere, I'd rather buy it. > > > > But it's looking more and more like I'll have to make some > > myself...I get the whole rope making concept, but am puzzled as to > > how to splice new reeds in and keep the circumference of the whole > > thing even. > > > > You've probably already thought of this, but there's a lot of > furniture made out of what looks like twisted ropes of reeds...it's > gotta come from somewhere.. That sounds like rattan. You can buy it from Cane and Basketry shops. But I don't think that's quite what Drea needs although the Cane and Basketry shops might have something else that would work. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:47:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEk2HR019481 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:47:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A0cGsU002767 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:38:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A0bxlt009214; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:37:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A0bult009181 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:37:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip249.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.249]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADD1F6AF56 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:37:53 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:37:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Message-ID: <3F0C52D1.1434.15A72FAA@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <8054544.1057766218214.JavaMail.nobody@wamui03.slb.atl.earthlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Also, I know we've discussed the "people were smaller back then" issue > here in the past, but briefly, apparently the story isn't that simple; > from skeletal studies, it seems that average people were very much our > size in some periods and smaller in others; it's not a steady upward > trend. Unfortunately the Victorian era, which is the "back then" that > there's the most evidence for, seems to have been one where people > tended to be particularly small (except the best-nourished classes, of > course), which is probably why the myth got started. I believe the > Elizabethan average was only an inch or so lower than ours. Exactly. An excellent book on the subject is _London Bodies_ put out by the Museum of London as a companion to their exhibit of the same name. Actually, the Victorians were found to be the smallest of all, probably because of a combination of really bad pollution (worse than today because of all the home coal burning and industrial waste problems), disease, and sanitation. The pollution got to even the best-nourished classes, as did disease. And since most people base their assumptions about "growth" on what their immediate ancestors were like, that has lead to the myth about us being bigger than any time in history (which isn't necessarily true.) Oh, to be a Saxon woman. They were the tallest in history according to the information available for the _London Bodies_ book. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:48:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEm2HP020177 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:48:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEhW0P027710 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:43:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEhUDu000788; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:43:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEhQDu000661 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:43:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.f5.2eed4b74 (4320) for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:43:19 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:43:19 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/10/2003 9:34:25 AM Central Standard Time, drea@nospam writes: > Sure thang! > > I'll be bringing it to Push to work on...will you be there? > Yup! -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:49:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEnVHP020691 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:49:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AElS0P028214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:47:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AElRDu003425; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:47:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AElNDu003343 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:47:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15060 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:12:04 -0500 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:12:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: gothic fitted dress In-Reply-To: <20030710133309.35127.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, sheree krasley wrote: > As the victim...er model for Tasha, I have to say from my own > experience that the front curved gown seemed to have much less > tightness across the abdomen. The straight front seam felt like it was > much more confining across the ribs and becuase of that the diaphragm > could not expand properly, hence the corseted feeling. Hmm, sounds like the front continued straight far lower than I would have done. I look for the point at which the pieces want to diverge and flare/gore gently from that point. You *want* the belly to protrude. My dresses are firm around the ribcage but don't put pressure on the abdomen. (I have GERD, so this is a serious issue for me!) It does discourage ribcage expansion, and so forces you to breathe from the diaphragm, but that's not a bad thing. ("Straight front seam" is probably a misleading term, in this regard; it came up originally in discussions about handling the bustline. I hope I've never suggested keeping the front straight all the way down. Sounds a bit 1890s ;-) ) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:50:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEoOHP020997 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:50:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEkj0P028105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:46:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEkjDu002873; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:46:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEkfDu002763 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:46:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.136.21b6824f (15901) for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:46:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-m19.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.135]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v94.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID94-3e1d3f0d7c45269; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:46:30 -0400 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:46:29 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] US Airline restrictions - sewing stuff (?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <43DDA51E.209E1EE7.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO N Kipar wrote: >As for thread cutting: I say it again, take a dental floss package with you. Ha! :) That's a much more convincing arguement than my dentist ever gave me for carrying floss. :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:51:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEp6HP021253 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:51:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEkA0P028031 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:46:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEk8Du002467; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:46:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEjrDu002300 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:45:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19acgD-0005O8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:45:53 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] US Airline restrictions - sewing stuff (?) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:45:19 -0700 Message-ID: <000301c346f1$f97ce380$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <20030710101625.U24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have also successfully brought two types of squeeze scissors on board. The first are children's scissors and they looked at them and said no problems. (They just don't have devious enough minds in my book). The other looks like a ball point pen. When the cap is removed they work kind of like a tweezers and have a sharp point. I am sure they look just like a ball point pen in the x-ray amongst all my writing paraphernalia. Not that I wave those around when I use them....but. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 10:51:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEp9HP021274 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:51:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEjw0P027996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:45:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEjvDu002351; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:45:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEjrDu002287 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:45:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19acfx-0005O8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:45:53 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:45:19 -0700 Message-ID: <000201c346f1$efc873e0$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <20030710085251.G24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] QE Death Mask- was: QE I - how tall? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Speaking of post mortem QE stuff. Does anyone know if the effigy of her (I think the marble one?) was made from a death mask? It just looks so jowly for someone who was so supposedly so thin? I think I remember QEWU talking about letting out garments later in life (gosh knows I have to these days!)...just curious. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:00:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AF0rHP024695 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:00:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Lu4sU020851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:56:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69LtmhG024692; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:55:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11402.mail.yahoo.com (web11402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h69LtghG024617 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:55:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030709215542.25082.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.184] by web11402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:55:42 PDT Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:55:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores and men To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <12.33378c30.2c3d15e4@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jeez, and I was just thinking, "who's got TWO husbands, that lucky b****!" Thanks for the support. Were I in a city or such, I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem working in a fabric store, but I'm in the middle of the rednecky half of Montana (there are pockets of enlightenment, just not anywhere near THIS town). I'm job hunting right now and am going to speak to a lawyer next week just to scope out my options, though I suspect a lawsuit wouldn't be worth the emotional toll it'd take. Jeff --- IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/9/03 2:45:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > IceGirlNIN@aol.com writes: > > > Your two husbands are definitely NOT alone in this! > > Ah, I should clarify that. I meant to say the two people who were > mentioning > that the men in their lives were being given this treatment, and I > think the > original poster was..Jeff? So that's really three people, I think? > I should > just not write e-mails at 2am. > > Christine > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:00:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AF0rHR024695 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:00:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69KghsU012848 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:42:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69KgemK027073; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:42:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69KgamK027005 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:42:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10489 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:07:14 -0500 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:07:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] More Gothic fitted dress fitting questions In-Reply-To: <4AFBECB5.4E084432.0016BF3A@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 KKlocko@aol.com wrote: > I've recently been interested in making a Gothic Fitted dress for > myself, however, for various medical reasons my weight keeps changing, > plus I can't stand pressure on my abdomen. Which fitting method > (curved front or straight front) would be best? Help? Is there any > way to make this dress accomodate large fluctuations in weight? In my experience, there is no way to make this dress accommodate large fluctuations in weight. I would hate to advise you on ways to try, because I think you'll be disappointed. (I suppose it's possible to adjust *down*, but even this isn't a picnic.) The crucial area is really the ribcage, but there are other problems with other areas, such as the upper arms. In any case, pressure on the abdomen shouldn't be an issue. There's no need to make the dress tight below the waist; it can flare from there, which makes it skim the top of the abdomen without squeezing and promotes the fashionable big-bellied look. I've fitted singers who tell me that the dress encourages them to breathe from the diaphragm the way they're supposed to, because it's easy to expand there, as opposed to high up in the ribcage. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:00:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AF0rHT024695 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:00:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69KsBsU014087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:54:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69KsAJu006713; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:54:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Ks7Ju006674 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:54:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bebe.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.190]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C75E25EE1D0 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:54:05 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c3465c$af5ed870$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:57:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] Caraco Redingote? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello again, My my, i cant cope with all those letters send every day, But here is my dress diary of the Caraco or Redingote? http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/caraco_jacket.htm I think i have made it all right anyway. It helped a lot when some of you said i should look at Jefferson In Paris Let me know what you think about it! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:00:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AF0rHV024695 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:00:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69LfKsU019383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:41:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Lev1b013973; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:40:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4.mebtel.net [64.40.67.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Les1b013934 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:40:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-68.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.68]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8E1A2792E for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:33:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F0C9A9E.6030809@grics.net> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:43:42 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Web Sites References: <20030709071516.76230.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030709071516.76230.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wheee! Whose graphic work is that? Smooth! Heather L N Kipar wrote: > --- Theresa Eacker wrote: > To Nicole- > > >>Where's the time-travelling feature? Will my Netscape/iMac not allow it >>to work or show up? >> >> > >It's in 'Living History' and under the chapter 'photo galleries'. The direct >link is here: > >http://www.kipar.org/society/galleries_timetravel.html > >The coding of the siteis clean and simple, no matter which broswer or OS you >are using, it should all work. I don't like fancy scripting that only works for >some. If it doesn't work, then I made an error. *laughs* > >Nicole > >===== >Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism > >Email: nicole@kipar.org >URL: http://www.kipar.org > >________________________________________________________________________ >Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! >Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:00:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AF0rHX024695 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:00:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69MJasU023158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:19:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69MJJhG011685; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:19:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster1.mebtel.net [64.40.67.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69MJGhG011625 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:19:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-68.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.68]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64E301FE84 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:06:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F0CA399.8050004@grics.net> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 18:22:01 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores and men References: <20030709074341.23509.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030709074341.23509.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chicago area observations: Seems like I saw more men working in fabric stores in the city than in the burbs. It also seems like there were a lot more redneck types in the burbs than in the city itself. (Money itself has very little to do with "redneck" behavior and attitudes. Education does somewhat, although by no means always). My own reactions to fabric (or any) store employees are usually based on how they act, regardless! I'm curious, Jeff, what type of area are you in? Heather L Veni vidi emi tunicam N Kipar wrote: > --- Jeff Brainard wrote: > Here's one for you to >stew over: I (at least for the present) work at a > > >>fabric store, only recently, and have noticed in the 3 weeks or month >>that I've been there that there's this really wierd gender dynamic >>about a guy working at a fabric store, with the customers and the >>workers. It's really really messed up in this case enough that I'm >>talking to a lawyer, but have any of you ever noticed a "ew. there's a >>MAN in the FABRIC STORE" reaction from a lot of stitch bitches? >> >> > >Really? I'm so sorry to hear that Jeff. Might it be a country/culture thing? >There are men working in lots of fabric stores I visited in Germany, and male >customers, and men working in fabric stores here in England, and male customers >too, including my partner. Hmm,.... hang in there, perhaps you can change the >climate! > >Nicole > >===== >Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism > >Email: nicole@kipar.org >URL: http://www.kipar.org > >________________________________________________________________________ >Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! >Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:00:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AF0rHZ024695 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:00:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69MPasU023703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:25:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69MPKhG015911; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:25:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69MPHhG015891 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:25:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19aNNE-00059w-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:25:17 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Three middle-class English Women picture online?-Thats It! Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:25:15 -0700 Message-ID: <000501c34668$fb3910b0$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3F0C920E.7070800@faucet.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Duh! Now I know where it is in my books too.....I just could not remember who had done it! Thanks Melanie! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:01:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AF1BHP024818 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:01:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEwx0P029370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:58:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEwweh011415; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:58:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEwseh011353 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:58:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15171 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:23:35 -0500 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:23:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] More Gothic fitted dress fitting questions In-Reply-To: <0DB3EAE8.264EDEB2.0016BF3A@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 KKlocko@aol.com wrote: > Hmmm...how much give can you reasonably expect in this dress? An inch > in lacing? Would it be possible to do the underdress with a... I know > there's a word for this...flap under the front lacing so you could > expand it a little? That might be possible; it's not something I've tried. Much depends on where you're going to put weight on and off. There is about an inch give at the lacing area, depending on the flexibility of your fabric and how much overlap you allow at the lacing. I had to make new dresses after I had babies, because my ribcage expanded permanently (even after I'd gone back to my original weight; the bone structure had changed). Before that, I once "outgrew" a dress just from gradual weight gain. Interestingly, the crucial area was at the level of the underarms -- I put on the weight at my side bust and shoulders, apparently. If I gained anything lower down, either my ribs were flexible enough or the dress was flexible enough to accommodate that. But when I couldn't fit into the armhole, there was no going back. I found this out when I was dressing for a photo session, for publicity shots for a lecture. I was going to be wearing a houppelande over the underdress, so I did what I had to do -- grabbed a razor and slashed across the front of the armholes, releasing the pressure on the upper arms and side bust. The dress still supported me enough for the shoot, and the damage was covered by the overdress. I could never wear that dress again, of course. My current lecture dress, after many years, is now feeling the strain, in the same spot and in the upper arms. I expect it'll get me through my appearance next month in Seattle, but I'm not going to bet on anything further; I've just ordered wool for a replacement to make up this fall, before KWCS. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:10:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFAKHP028006 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:10:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A5vZ0P023074 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:57:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A5vJq1011249; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:57:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6A5vGq1011231 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:57:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-66-127-113-230.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@66.127.113.230 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 05:57:15 -0000 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:57:03 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <00ed01c346a4$a161d4f0$41d2adcb@michaela> Message-Id: <54931684-B29B-11D7-8080-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Just steering back to the pondering of the effigy corset:) Now if QEI > gained > weight in the 70s... did she lose wight to be able to fit that corset > in the > end? Or was it perhaps laced over something and that was discarded for > the > effigy to make it glorify her more? Or was it made for the effigy only > and > not based on her real size at all? > > Or was it indeed made at a later date again not based on her actual > measurements? My opinion on the effigy corset is that it wasn't made specifically *for* Elizabeth and then put to use on the effigy after her death. Call it costumer's intuition, but I think it was likely made specifically for the effigy after her death, in the style of the time. There's no real evidence that I've seen that suggests it was actually worn on a living human being (and the fact that the stays are in such good condition is probably the best testament to this), and I don't think I've ever come across sources that say whether or not the effigy was even meant to *resemble* QEI's actual figure, or if it was, say, taken from a lady in waiting's measurements, etc. There is a photo of the corset on the effigy: http://www.elizabethi.org/wardrobe/corset.htm Of course, I could be overlooking research here, but that's just the sense I get from the corset. Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:10:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFAKHR028006 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:10:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A5iW0P022340 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:44:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A5iGTQ006098; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:44:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A5iETQ006080 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:44:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip178.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.178]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 645496AFCE for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:44:12 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 22:42:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? Message-ID: <3F0C9A51.4878.16BE7996@localhost> Priority: normal References: <20030710022123.97578.qmail@web11407.mail.yahoo.com> In-reply-to: <83C480D2-B294-11D7-8080-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Actually, I think a 21" waist without corseting is actually > conceivable (least of all because I had it myself, once upon a time, > but then, I'm barely 5 feet tall). I've been studying body size for > the last few months and there's a lot of modern women who can fall > into that 21" or less waist category, some of whom are petite like me > and others who are quite a bit taller. I'm 5'4" and had a 19" uncorseted waist for many years. Even after I gained weight it was only 25" (until I gained 30#, then it was a wee bit more.) (And I'm *very* shortwaisted. Most of my height is in legs.) So, 21" is not outlandish, especially if corseted from a fairly early age. > > Well, think of a 21 inch waist in terms of a size 6 or 8 petite and > > then consider that these ladies were corsetted very early on, thus > > allowing for a notable lack of developed back muscles, which would > > have been made up for by the boning of a corset. When you consider > > all this, 21 or even 16 inches ("miz scarlet, you ain't gonna have a > > 16 inch waist no mo') really isn't so very outlandish. Corsetting (at least in the Tudor period) doesn't necessarily prevent back muscle development. Lack of using the upper body strength (for example, if you never had to lift things like babies, buckets, archery, etc) would do that, but not the corset alone. You might not get much in the way of longissimus thoracis development (the muscle that runs along side the spine) but certainly the trapezius, rhomboids, teres (minor and major), latissimus dorsi and the like would get plenty of exercise even in a corset as long as they were using their upper extremities. But the major reason for lack of back muscle development in women has nothing to do with corsetting, but rather with lack of exercise. (Same as now.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:10:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFAKHT028006 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:10:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A5Wg0P021675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:32:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A5WPTQ000952; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:32:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A5WMTQ000912 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:32:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p65-nas1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.210.65] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19aU2U-0004Wv-00; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:32:19 +1200 Message-ID: <00ed01c346a4$a161d4f0$41d2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307100319.h6A3JVMx000249@net.indra.com> <3F0CF0AC.3040306@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:32:18 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > How extreme a silhouette can be acheived comfortably by a person really > depends more on bone structure than anything else. I'm not super short- > or longwaisted, > Hopefully that made sense! Just trying to say that 21" is neither weird > nor partcularly extreme :) This is true, I can lace down far and still be comfortable and I've not been trained. But as far as goes for the Effigy corset: I don't think it was just the waist measurement, it was the whole shape. I could get down to a 21" waist but I would not fit that corset. It's the way the torso is so long and thin, it's quite different to focussing on the waist and corseting down. I'd get a ver very hourglass shape, as most people would, expect those with a long torso that's also very narrow. Much like that pink 17thC sleeved satys in the V&A. It's also of a shape that's very long and narrow. http://www.vam.ac.uk/aboutus/whoiswho/departments/collections/furniture/?sec tion=furniture there is a piccies in that framed page.. and I think you can get some better photos in the search function http://images.vam.ac.uk/images/photo/sch/20000504/high/mb37-002.jpg http://images.vam.ac.uk/images/photo/sch/20000504/high/mb37-001.jpg Just steering back to the pondering of the effigy corset:) Now if QEI gained weight in the 70s... did she lose wight to be able to fit that corset in the end? Or was it perhaps laced over something and that was discarded for the effigy to make it glorify her more? Or was it made for the effigy only and not based on her real size at all? Or was it indeed made at a later date again not based on her actual measurements? michaela http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:11:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFBHHP028336 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:11:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A6vE0P026497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:57:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A6uwd2005532; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:56:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A6uud2005518 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:56:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-36-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.36.253]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6A6usFv015319 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030709235518.0586d850@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 23:56:46 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork shift questions/beading questions In-Reply-To: <000a01c346ac$c6d876a0$46654618@ok.shawcable.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There's one in Koehler's book. I think the L.A. County Museum of Art owns another one (I saw one there, but maybe it was part of a travelling exhibit). >I have a picture of an extant Italian chemise with embroidery around the >neck and down the sleeves and body of the chemise. The embroidery goes >all the way around the neckline. As soon as I can find it, I will post it >on my website for you if you would like. Im sorry, I cant even give you a >book to look for right now. All my books are packed and have left for >Kamloops already. > >You can contact me privately if you would like a copy. > >Jennifer Potts >aka Senor Giacyntha Francesca Maria Cocchetti, >Shire of Ramsgaard, SCA > > >Message: 1 >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:37:23 -0700 (PDT) >From: Cascio Michael >Subject: [h-cost] blackwork shift questions/beading questions >To: h-costume@net.indra.com >Message-ID: <20030617133723.90188.qmail@web12005.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Hi All, > I'm finally caught up on my posts and have a few >questions. > On square neck Elizabethan shifts with the >blackwork embroidery around the edge of the square >neck would the embroidery go around the entire edge or >would it just be a band across the front where it >would show? I know Janet Arnold mentions a square >neck shift somewhere but I don't recall ever seeing a >picture of it anywhere. I'm working on a shift with >the low square neck and blackwork on the cuffs as per >the Helena Snakenborg, although you can't see her >shift sleeves underneath that beautifully embroidered >partlet and sleeves. > Second question---One of the beading magazines I >pick up occasionally has some choker patterns that I >thought would make nice beaded trims. The chokers >were made with a light weight gauge wire but as I want >to sew these patterns down to a garment edge should I >use wire and make the choker as per the instructions >and then sew it onto the velvet? Since I was going to >put a band of velvet along the edge of the sleeves and >hem, like a guard, I could stitch each bead down to >the velvet and then take it off should I need to clean >the garment. And since I'm going to put these on a >garment should I use flat beads or the round beads the >pattern suggests? > Any help would be most appreciated. > Cassandra > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:14:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFEmHP029551 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:14:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Mt0sk026445 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:56:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69MqthG005556; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:52:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from topcat.systemsfirm.net (pcp822127pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [68.49.40.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69MqlhG005456 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:52:49 -0600 (MDT) content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:52:45 -0400 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: QE I and Mary of Scots - height Thread-Index: AcNGbM204MTykxUOSyKNYUpr4TIJfw== From: "A.Thurman" To: "Historic Costume List (E-mail)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h69MqlhG005456 Subject: [h-cost] QE I and Mary of Scots - height X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just a few notes on this subject: For some reason, I seem to remember Weir describing Elizabeth as about 5'5", but I also remember reading about her being about 5'9-10" in a resource I can't remember. If the discussion with the Scottish ambassador is accurate, and pending the affirmation of a garment as definitely belonging to her, all I guess we can say for sure without digging her up is that she was shorter than Mary of Scots. Re: Mary of Scots, and the disease that made her so tall - I think that's Marfan's syndrome, symptoms of which are exaggerated height and length of limbs/fingers, and problems with eyesight, but nothing about mood or anxiety. I have never read about Mary as a possible Marfan's case before, though I do remember that it was attributed to Elizabeth at one point, possibly based on her pride over her long fingers (again, I have no source. Take with a salt lick :P ) I know that it has been suggested that Lincoln, Pharaoh Akhenaten, and many basketball players are afflicted. I did a quick search but found nothing about historic Marfan's specifically; if you're still curious start at www.marfan.org. Re: people in the past weren't as large as people now - I think this has been fairly well debunked, by the Museum of London, at least. I think logically that nutrition/health care in different periods/classes probably varied a lot more than is often given credit, and would probably be a significant influence over how large a person grew. Allison T. (please forgive lousy grammar - it has been a LONG day!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:14:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFEmHR029551 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:14:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69MYhsU024631 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:34:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69MYRhG022312; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:34:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta1.adelphia.net (mta1.adelphia.net [64.8.50.175]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69MYOhG022215 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:34:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adelphia.net ([24.55.189.230]) by mta1.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP id <20030709223900.CSVZ25556.mta1.adelphia.net@adelphia.net> for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:39:00 -0400 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:34:17 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: rob and laurie gage To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200307091608.h69G8C7S026324@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <79CA91C8-B25D-11D7-A0F6-000393D2F36E@adelphia.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [h-cost] h-cost Re: QEI-how tall? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Message: 12 > Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:00:03 -0700 (PDT) > From: Chris Laning > Subject: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? > To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: > <8054544.1057766218214.JavaMail.nobody@wamui03.slb.atl.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii What timing, I was flipping thru Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd last night and read thru this section... > It sounds like there actually _is_ some information we could access on > QE I's size, rather than speculating, if someone has the right books > to hand. I know Janet Arnold mentions that there's evidence that > Elizabeth gained weight at one point (IIRC) and a lot of her gowns had > to be remade. > QEWU pg 2 ch 1: "William Jones, the Queen's tailor, carried out several large groups of alterations b/w 1585-1588. In 1585 he was engaged in 'alteringe enlarginge pecinge longer and wider...'" "In the same year Arthur Middleton, an alterations hand, was employed in 'alteringe & enlarginge of ...'" From the same paragraph, Ms Arnold informs us that Mr Jones altered the bodice and sleeves of 40 gowns and doublets b/w Sept 1587 and April 1588. By September 1588 he carried out similar work on another 30 and another 32 by April 1589. Just a drop in the bucket considering the items listed in the Stowe and Folger inventories from July 1600. Man, I would not mind that wardrobe at all:) > As far as I know, there are _no_ surviving garments of QE I that are > currently regarded as authentic. Apparently there are accounts of > extensive cutting-up and giving-away of Elizabeth's clothes by Queen > Anne (James's queen). A couple of things have been pointed out as > possible surviving fragments, but if so, they have been re-cut and > made into something else (cushion covers, decorative panels on other > garments etc.) so we can't extract any size information from them. And > I don't think any of them can be _proved_ to have been hers. An earlier post (Drea?) pointed out that the "effigy corset "(Priory, Westminster Abbey) was the original corset on QE's funeral effigy, luckily escaping the Victorian overhaul that the rest of the effigy costume fell victim to. Further perusal thru QEWU indicates that Ms Arnold has been unable to locate any surviving clothing of QE I. Laurie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:14:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFEpHP029571 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:14:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A3JB0P012593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:19:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A3IsMw029822; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:18:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A3IpMw029793 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:18:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.249.181.11] (pool181-23.patriot.net [209.249.181.23]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6A3In33016481 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:18:50 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <017101c3465e$205509e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030709113810.045dd008@mail.earthlink.net> <017101c3465e$205509e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:18:46 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: Re: Re: [h-cost] Caraco jacket fantasy? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Once I think of it as a redingote it makes more sense. I don't think it's a caraco. The side ruffles in the illustration don't continue around the back. Maybe the back goes to full length at that point? That makes more sense for the style. -Carol >Hi Brenda, and Carrol two >I much apreciated the help you have given me. >Belive me, it is very difficult to make something in between of real fashion >and reallity. >The fashion print i was looking at was french, and it called the dress to be >Asiatique whatever that is, >But then it was very fashionabble to dress exotic in those >days............... >I have now desided to make it this way: >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/caraco_jacket.htm > >Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:14:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFEpHR029571 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:14:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A2Tk0P009016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:29:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A2TUuu006596; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:29:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6A2TQuu006536 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:29:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 24378 invoked by uid 1005); 10 Jul 2003 02:29:11 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.117048 secs); 10 Jul 2003 02:29:11 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.117048 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 02:29:11 -0000 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:29:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F0C52D1.19597.15A72EA0@localhost> Message-ID: <20030709222327.R15755-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > > You've probably already thought of this, but there's a lot of > > furniture made out of what looks like twisted ropes of reeds...it's > > gotta come from somewhere.. > > That sounds like rattan. You can buy it from Cane and Basketry shops. > But I don't think that's quite what Drea needs although the Cane and > Basketry shops might have something else that would work. The closest I've found is #0 round reed (1 to 1.5 mm). No-one sells bent grass that I know of. :( After thinking about it all day at work, and drawing obscure ropy looking doodles all through two meetings, I experiemented with my small reed when I got home. I took 20 pieces, gave them a slight twist, and wrapped them tightly in artificial sinew. I got through 8 yards before my fingers gave up. But it was easy to splice, since I went slowly and only one reed ran out at a time. Probably not exactly what they meant by "bent rope"...but it looks really period, and is amazingly light compared to hemp rope of the same diameter and length. Much stiffer, too....yet very flexible, and unlikely to break. I'm really looking forward to making a farthingale out of it. I think I'll do the spiral-up-the-farthingale method, rather than separate rings, to avoid kinking. Drea > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:20:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFKTHP031433 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:20:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A3gs0P014248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:42:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A3gbMw011114; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:42:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A3gVMx011045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:42:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6A3gYbh004547 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:42:34 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6A3gYmo004545 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:42:34 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] feeling ignernt ...and enjoying it :-) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:42:34 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307092342.34159.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 09 July 2003 08:36 am, Kate M Bunting wrote: > Cathy Raymond wrote: > >>>I know women with grapefruits. > > > >However, I only have strawberries. Small strawberries at that, too. > > > :-) > > Reminds me of a sketch in the "Two Ronnies" TV series years ago. > > Ronnie Corbett: I want to buy my wife a new bra, but I don't know what > size to ask for. > Ronnie Barker: Well, are they like melons? Or grapefruits? Or oranges? > RC: [thinks a bit] They're like eggs. [Pause] ........Fried. > > Having a figure of the fried egg variety myself, that always makes me > smile. Sunny side up, or flipped and broken? :-) On the other hand, as a (male) friend of mine says, "more than a mouthful is wasted." :-) I -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:21:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFLIHP031635 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:21:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFIJ0P001581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:18:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFIGeh025542; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:18:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6AFIDeh025480 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:18:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 25985 invoked by uid 1005); 10 Jul 2003 15:18:03 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.082438 secs); 10 Jul 2003 15:18:03 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.082438 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 15:18:02 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:18:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030710111759.T24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO See you there! :) Drea On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 LoreleiMorte@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/10/2003 9:34:25 AM Central Standard Time, > drea@nospam writes: > > > Sure thang! > > > > I'll be bringing it to Push to work on...will you be there? > > > > Yup! > > -Sarra Wryght > Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html > Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:26:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFQhHP000470 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:26:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A4LD0P016901 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:21:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A4KuAS028191; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:20:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A4KrAT028175 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:20:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (acty5063.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.250.63]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h6A4Kveg006450 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:20:58 -0400 Message-ID: <3F0CE8DA.4090709@dandy.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:17:30 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: splicing, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? References: <20030709123107.W1438-100000@shell.siscom.net> <3F0C6FFA.8000106@fenris.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. In this case, a rope splice would not be applicable, but it is possible that reeds could be joined in some way and wrapped, similarly to the method used for the hoops on barrels and buckets seen in 16th Cent. paintings. Just a musing thought... In addition, anything that is made of long fibers joined together has breaks in the fibers at some point... the idea is to keep the breaks away from each other, and the spin of the fibers will bind the lot together along the whole length (if this makes any sense) Mike T. Elizabeth Young wrote: > A long splice is used to join rope pieces together. > liz young > > Drea Leed wrote: > >> Ah heck, I'm lazy. :) If it's for sale anywhere, I'd rather buy it. >> >> But it's looking more and more like I'll have to make some myself...I >> get >> the whole rope making concept, but am puzzled as to how to splice new >> reeds in and keep the circumference of the whole thing even. >> >> >>> >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:30:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFULHP001453 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:30:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFQN0P002365 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:26:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFQLeh001768; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:26:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFQIeh001735 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:26:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip161.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.161]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 838A76DEE5 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:26:04 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:25:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork shift questions/beading questions Message-ID: <3F0D2307.15328.18D48019@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000a01c346ac$c6d876a0$46654618@ok.shawcable.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have a picture of an extant Italian chemise with embroidery around > the neck and down the sleeves and body of the chemise. The embroidery > goes all the way around the neckline. As soon as I can find it, I > will post it on my website for you if you would like. Im sorry, I > cant even give you a book to look for right now. All my books are > packed and have left for Kamloops already. Milia Davenport's Book of Costume has one. There are several embroidery books which have pictures of them too. Kamloops! What a drive! > On square neck Elizabethan shifts with the > blackwork embroidery around the edge of the square > neck would the embroidery go around the entire edge or > would it just be a band across the front where it > would show? The embroidery is over the entire shift often times much like ours do with printed fabrics. The embroidery on seams was to a purpose: strengthening the seams. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:36:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFaCHP005298 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:36:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFYL0P003229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:34:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFYKeh007548; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:34:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFYHeh007451 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:34:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1d2.d8ecf8a (4320) for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:34:08 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <1d2.d8ecf8a.2c3ee16f@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:34:07 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/10/2003 10:19:05 AM Central Standard Time, drea@nospam writes: > See you there! :) > Party on, homey. -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:41:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFfTHP006222 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:41:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFdR0P003764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:39:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFdPeh011435; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:39:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFdKeh011377 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:39:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem-595.lion.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.135.162.83] helo=lance5) by cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.14) id 19adVv-00031w-Ls for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:39:20 +0100 From: "Freyalyn Close-Hainsworth" To: Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:43:16 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200307101435.h6AEZkDx026066@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 402 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > As for thread cutting: I say it again, take a dental floss > package with you. When I flew to America last year, I tucked a couple of sewing needles inside my dental floss case, which split open very easily. I also tucked metal double-pointed knitting needles down the metal spine of my diary/organiser thing. Got both through without a problem, even with *very* thorough checking. Nobody queried the ball of knitting yarn or fabric and thread - without any visible means of using them. The airstaff didn't even notice when I started to knit and sew. I took a small spindle and some fibre and did that openly in the airport - again, no-one said anything. when I've spoken to other people about this, the general response seems to be that if you ask airline staff "is this OK?" the answer is always no. Carry something small and apparently innocuous, and they won't notice. Freyalyn the Fluff Fiend "If you're gonna ask someone to save the world, make sure they like it the way it is". (XC, 2002) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 11:54:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFsAHP010221 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:54:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFnu0P004809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:49:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AFnteh018926; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:49:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.179]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6AFnpeh018864 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:49:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-66-127-113-236.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@66.127.113.236 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 15:49:51 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:49:42 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030710095627.Y24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> Message-Id: <1EFD78F5-B2EE-11D7-B7FF-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> I can picture this, but I've never heard of it--was it done in the >> 16th >> century? > > There's a picture of a woman in the Milanese Tailor's Handbook, where > her > farthingale appears to start at the bottom and spiral up: > http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/pages/f103R.html This was the same image Melissa Heischberg based her spiral farthingale off of a few years back. The only difference is that she used rope rather than cane, but it's pretty darn sturdy. As I understand it, the spiral keeps the farthingale from compressing unevenly at any given angle, the way it would if there were concentric rings of boning through it. I've been meaning to make one of these, myself... I'm in the process of overhauling all of my Elizabethan undies, so this project is getting closer and closer to the top of the pile. ;) Oh, and Missa's spiral farthingale can be found here: http://www.sempstress.org/diaries/grey2002/underpinnings.shtml She rocks. Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 12:06:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AG6wHP015534 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:06:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AG550P006460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AG54V6000268; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:05:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6AG52V6000244 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:05:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 70025 invoked by uid 1005); 10 Jul 2003 16:04:54 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.083326 secs); 10 Jul 2003 16:04:54 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.083326 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 16:04:54 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:04:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope In-Reply-To: <1EFD78F5-B2EE-11D7-B7FF-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> Message-ID: <20030710115326.K24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > This was the same image Melissa Heischberg based her spiral farthingale > off of a few years back. The only difference is that she used rope > rather than cane, but it's pretty darn sturdy. As I understand it, the > spiral keeps the farthingale from compressing unevenly at any given > angle, the way it would if there were concentric rings of boning > through it. Missa's cool. I remember that farthingale of hers. I did make one rope-stiffened farthingale, and though it held out very impressively (much more than I would have expected), pinning and stitching the rope into the tucks was a royal pain. Plus, the end result was staggeringly heavy, after the light hoopskirt boning farthingales I'd gotten used to. I'm crossing my fingers that this bent rope stuff, even 20 yards of it, will be lighter in comparison. One pound of it looks like it will make about 15 yards of bent rope. > > I've been meaning to make one of these, myself... I'm in the process of > overhauling all of my Elizabethan undies, so this project is getting > closer and closer to the top of the pile. ;) > Me too! I kept putting off making a new effigy corset to fit the new, more voluptuous me, in the hopes that she would turn back into the old, slimmer me. But I've finally resigned myself, and am going to go ahead and make a new corset--burgundy silk taffata, with heavy linen fustian backing it, with blak velvet edging & reed boning. I have a cunning plan: it's going to lace up the side backs as well as the center front. That way, if I do lose weight (or gain any more), I can replace the back panel with a smaller or larger one. The farthingale's going to match, and tie to the corset at the sides. So, you're in Flaming Gryphon? I don't think I've met you, have I? See you soon, Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 12:07:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AG7RHP015750 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:07:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEOu0P025772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:24:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEO6Du018512; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:24:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20205.mail.yahoo.com (web20205.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6AEO3Du018456 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:24:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030710142403.91823.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [168.103.60.157] by web20205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:24:03 PDT Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:24:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Angela Kovatch To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <002601c31ffd$c7a25f40$f50577d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] interesting ebay auction X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO After all the humdingers of costume we've seen, here's an auction with nothing to criticize. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2933240866&category=1469 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 12:07:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AG7RHR015750 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:07:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEMU0P025572 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:22:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEL3Du016845; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:21:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEL1Du016793 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KKlocko@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.6d.1516baf7 (15898) for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:20:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m19.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.135]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v94.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID91-3e1a3f0d7644c8; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:20:52 -0400 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:20:52 -0400 From: KKlocko@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] More Gothic fitted dress fitting questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0DB3EAE8.264EDEB2.0016BF3A@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/9/2003 4:07:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, robin@shell.nightowl.net writes: > > > > On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 KKlocko@aol.com wrote: > > > I've recently been interested in making a Gothic Fitted dress for > > myself, however, for various medical reasons my weight keeps changing, > > plus I can't stand pressure on my abdomen. Which fitting method > > (curved front or straight front) would be best? Help? Is there any > > way to make this dress accomodate large fluctuations in weight? > > In my experience, there is no way to make this dress >accommodate large fluctuations in weight. Hmmm...how much give can you reasonably expect in this dress? An inch in lacing? Would it be possible to do the underdress with a... I know there's a word for this...flap under the front lacing so you could expand it a little? Maybe it's time to go to Plan B, which is to make both a skinny dress and a full-figured dress. > In any case, pressure on the abdomen shouldn't be an issue. >There's no need to make the dress tight below the waist; it >can flare from there, which makes it skim the top of the >abdomen without squeezing and promotes the fashionable big->bellied look. oooh, I love that look, if only because it's perfect for me. :> Thanks! --Kathy K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 12:07:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AG7RHT015750 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:07:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEDc0P024806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:13:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AECbNo012087; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:12:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AECYNo012026 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:12:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1c2.c589d3a (15899) for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:12:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-d16.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.132]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v94.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID92-3e1b3f0d744820b; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:12:24 -0400 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:12:24 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5EA74AC2.2F048A84.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] US Airline restrictions - sewing stuff (?) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi- I'm making a coast-to-coast run this weekend with fairly long layovers & I'd like to get some hemming/handwork finished. Since 9/11, I know some of my coworkers have had their manicure set scissors taken away. I want to be completely on the up-and-up, but I also don't want to be bored out of my skull. Have any of you traveled in the US lately with sewing implements? Are needles (little sharps) ok? How about snips? I assume ghingers are still out. I can imagine trying to get through with a set of pinking shears. :) Constance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 12:07:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AG7RHV015750 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:07:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEBn0P024637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:11:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AEB2No011200; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6AEB0No011172 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:11:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 18631 invoked by uid 1005); 10 Jul 2003 14:10:55 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.092185 secs); 10 Jul 2003 14:10:55 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.092185 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 14:10:54 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:10:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope In-Reply-To: <3F0D745F.20208@faucet.net> Message-ID: <20030710095627.Y24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> I'm really looking forward to making a farthingale out of it. I think >> I'll do the spiral-up-the-farthingale method, rather than separate >> rings, to avoid kinking. > > I can picture this, but I've never heard of it--was it done in the 16th > century? There's a picture of a woman in the Milanese Tailor's Handbook, where her farthingale appears to start at the bottom and spiral up: http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/pages/f103R.html The rope appears to have been whipstitched to the outside of the Italian woman's farthingale, rather than sewn into tucks. I've seen another, similar picture, showing the bottom ring going around and then the rest slanting a bit, but can't currently remember where. I found a tailor's bill which mentioned "50 yds of bent rope" (sic) for two spanish farthingales, which works out to @25 yds apiece...only workable if the rope was sewn on as narrowly as it is on the Italian woman's skirt. That's the amount I plan to use on my next farthingale. In such a case it would be much easier, work-wise, to have one band of bent rope spiraling around than to cut and splice the two dozen or so separate rounds required. I have a hunch it will make the farthingale sturdier as well. I've found references to bent rope on farthingales being covered with bands of contrasting fabric, which is what I plan to do: burgundy shot-silk taffeta farthingale, with a black velvet band covering the bent rope. 17 yards to go...:) Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 12:10:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGA2HP016981 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:10:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A24c0P006928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:04:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A24Luu024466; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:04:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11404.mail.yahoo.com (web11404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.234]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6A24Iuu024420 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:04:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030710020418.82383.qmail@web11404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.206] by web11404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 19:04:18 PDT Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 19:04:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: fabric stores and men To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO yeah, it's Hancock's I'm having problems with. I wonder if part of it is sideways homophobia. I took a new job today, so cross your fingers girls! Jeff > > Sorry you are having troubles Jeff. A good friend of mine also has > problems when he goes into fabrics stores to shop, at least Hancock's > or > JoAnn's. They know him very well in the two higher-end stores here > in > town and he has no problems there. That could also be because, > especially in one of them, they are very familiar with his work and > he > is an awesome costume (started in Civil War and we are sucking him > into > Elizabethan, yes I'm trying to get him onto this list :). > http://www.kcrenfest.com/PhotoGallery/Fops.html. Jason is the > gentleman on the right and he created all 3 costumes). > > I had not really thought of it before but after Jeff has brought this > up, I don't see very many men in our local fabric stores, at least > the > Hancock's and JoAnn's, either working at them or shopping. One of > the > remaining, smaller, JoAnn's used to be managed by a man but he has > since > left. Both of the higher-end stores do have male employees, one is > owned by a man. Sounds like any problems might be more with the > larger > chains. > > Catherine > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 12:10:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGA2HR016981 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:10:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A2Lf0P008328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:21:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A2LPuu002354; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:21:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11407.mail.yahoo.com (web11407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6A2LNuu002339 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:21:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030710022123.97578.qmail@web11407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.206] by web11407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 19:21:23 PDT Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 19:21:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <0D12A0A8-B223-11D7-8080-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, think of a 21 inch waist in terms of a size 6 or 8 petite and then consider that these ladies were corsetted very early on, thus allowing for a notable lack of developed back muscles, which would have been made up for by the boning of a corset. When you consider all this, 21 or even 16 inches ("miz scarlet, you ain't gonna have a 16 inch waist no mo') really isn't so very outlandish. Jeff --- Sarah wrote: > > On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 06:28 AM, Drea Leed wrote: > > > If it's true that the effigy corset in Westminster was from QE's > > store, it > > might be possible to extrapolate her height based on the height of > the > > corset. I know that it is around 21 inches around the waist, but > is > > very > > long and narrow. Hard to believe it fit an actual woman! > > Yeah, but on the "right" kind of body, a 21" corseted waist is pretty > > average. A long torso'd woman (assuming QEI falls into this range) > could naturally have a waist around 21" and be 5'6 or taller. > Supermodels do it all the time. ;) > > Sarah > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 12:10:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGA2HT016981 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:10:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A2KX0P008249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:20:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A2KHuu001874; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:20:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net (turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.126]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A2KEuu001841 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:20:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19aR2b-0006u9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Jul 2003 19:20:14 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New Web Sites Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 19:20:14 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c34689$cd9fed60$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3F0C9A9E.6030809@grics.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow! Very spiff! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 12:15:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGFtHP019578 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:15:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGDm0P007384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:13:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGDlV6006463; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:13:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGDiV6006285 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:13:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D23D0BE809 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:13:28 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F0D9172.7020905@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:16:50 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Bodice From tailors book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I scaled the bodice pattern f.60 Page 45 Tailor's Pattern Book 1589 Juan de Alcega up until it fitted me. I didn't make any other alterations to the pattern. The cut of the straps look a bit strange on the pattern but are quite comfortable. I was supprised how wel it fits. I could use a little more room at my waist and maby a little les at the top. I wonder how the actual dress would have looked like. The pattern say's Kirtle and low cut bodice of cloth rash for a woman. Does this mean that was the bodice of a kirtle or that it were two different items? The point in front is long and pointy, from wich time would this bodice have been? http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Bodice/Bodice.html Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 12:21:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGLUHP023341 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:21:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A58l0P020294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:08:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A58VTQ020102; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:08:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.183]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6A58STQ020073 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:08:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-66-127-113-230.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@66.127.113.230 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 05:08:28 -0000 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:08:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] QE I - how tall? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030710022123.97578.qmail@web11407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <83C480D2-B294-11D7-8080-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, I think a 21" waist without corseting is actually conceivable (least of all because I had it myself, once upon a time, but then, I'm barely 5 feet tall). I've been studying body size for the last few months and there's a lot of modern women who can fall into that 21" or less waist category, some of whom are petite like me and others who are quite a bit taller. I used the supermodel example, but really, there are supermodels out there with 28" waists who are nearly anorexic... It just depends on bone structure, rib-to-hip length and a few other genetic factors, but it's not as rare as one might think. Sarah On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 07:21 PM, Jeff Brainard wrote: > Well, think of a 21 inch waist in terms of a size 6 or 8 petite and > then consider that these ladies were corsetted very early on, thus > allowing for a notable lack of developed back muscles, which would have > been made up for by the boning of a corset. When you consider all this, > 21 or even 16 inches ("miz scarlet, you ain't gonna have a 16 inch > waist no mo') really isn't so very outlandish. > > Jeff > > > --- Sarah wrote: >> >> On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 06:28 AM, Drea Leed wrote: >> >>> If it's true that the effigy corset in Westminster was from QE's >>> store, it >>> might be possible to extrapolate her height based on the height of >> the >>> corset. I know that it is around 21 inches around the waist, but >> is >>> very >>> long and narrow. Hard to believe it fit an actual woman! >> >> Yeah, but on the "right" kind of body, a 21" corseted waist is pretty >> >> average. A long torso'd woman (assuming QEI falls into this range) >> could naturally have a waist around 21" and be 5'6 or taller. >> Supermodels do it all the time. ;) >> >> Sarah >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 12:21:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGLUHR023341 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:21:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A4p40P019141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:51:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A4olAS011987; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:50:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6A4okAS011973 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:50:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ppp-66-126-75-111.dialup.sndg02.pacbell.net (HELO sbcglobal.net) (lady?m?de?j%sbcglobal.net@66.126.75.111 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 04:50:45 -0000 Message-ID: <3F0CF0AC.3040306@sbcglobal.net> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 21:50:52 -0700 From: Maura Folsom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-CA; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-ca, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200307100319.h6A3JVMx000249@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >Jeff Brainard wrote: > >Well, think of a 21 inch waist in terms of a size 6 or 8 petite and >then consider that these ladies were corsetted very early on, thus >allowing for a notable lack of developed back muscles, which would have >been made up for by the boning of a corset. When you consider all this, >21 or even 16 inches ("miz scarlet, you ain't gonna have a 16 inch >waist no mo') really isn't so very outlandish. > Actually, one needs neither to be tiny nor to be habitually tightlaced to acheive such a silhouette. I'm about 5'5"-5'6" and when I was about, say 145 lbs and a standard size 9-10, I corseted very easily to 20-21" in my victorian-era corsets for 1st-person interpreting on alternate weekends. I was, at the time, doing fairly physical work, mostly involving my back, and was very fit, so it didn't mean that I was corseting small because of low muscle mass, either. Normally my waist isn't especially small compared to my hips and bust, and I certainly did not wear corsets regularly enough to claim body modification, so neither of those are the answer. How extreme a silhouette can be acheived comfortably by a person really depends more on bone structure than anything else. I'm not super short- or longwaisted, I have slim-average hips (regardless of my size - they are still slim for whatever size I am), and my ribcage naturally slopes in toward my waist, with the added bonus of being somewhat doublejointed (moreso when I was younger than now, at 32) which makes my ribcage cartilage probably more willing to let things move about than otherwise. Hopefully that made sense! Just trying to say that 21" is neither weird nor partcularly extreme :) Maura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 12:21:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGLUHT023341 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:21:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A4tC0P019489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:55:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A4suAS013948; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:54:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A4srAT013929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:54:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A4s1TZ018906 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:54:02 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:59:20 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3F0CF0AC.3040306@sbcglobal.net> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If there is an effigy that the corset fit, or at least was on, couldn't it be measured for the height? Or is it a complete full body manikin? Wanda > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 12:30:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGUpHP026185 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:30:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGR80P008848 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:27:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGR6V6016038; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:27:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6AGQxV6015960 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:27:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 41237 invoked by uid 1005); 10 Jul 2003 16:26:51 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.072694 secs); 10 Jul 2003 16:26:51 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.072694 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 16:26:51 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:26:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bodice From tailors book In-Reply-To: <3F0D9172.7020905@kabelfoon.nl> Message-ID: <20030710122545.R24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I scaled the bodice pattern f.60 Page 45 Tailor's Pattern Book 1589 Juan > de Alcega up until it fitted me. > I didn't make any other alterations to the pattern. > The cut of the straps look a bit strange on the pattern but are quite > comfortable. > I was supprised how wel it fits. I could use a little more room at my > waist and maby a little les at the top. > I wonder how the actual dress would have looked like. The pattern say's > Kirtle and low cut bodice of cloth rash for a woman. > Does this mean that was the bodice of a kirtle or that it were two > different items? > The point in front is long and pointy, from wich time would this bodice > have been? Wow, that does look straight out of a picture. The time period would be 80s/90s for this particular pattern. Looks like it will make a great gown, with a few tweaks & stiffening. Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 12:30:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGUwHP026198 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:30:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGRf0P008917 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:27:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGRdV6016488; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:27:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6AGRaV6016374 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:27:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OjSBDGgPXHemnMChOI1mUtU=">; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:26:37 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H4Q7MLQE; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:26:37 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:11:10 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] US Airline restrictions - sewing stuff (?) Message-ID: <20030710.092607.1612.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-53 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've found ones which are meant to be worn on a finger. handy little jobbers. :) Arlys On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:23:59 -0500 "Betsy Marshall" writes: > Run down to the sewing or quilting store- there is a little round > thread > cutter that is only a couple of dollars- it has several slots for > the > thread to fall into to touch the cutting blade-which is permanently > covered. I have one I wear to camping events, on a necklace or > string it > is handy and almost un-losable, and passes for a pendant. Worth a > look-see. Betsy > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On Behalf Of ConstanceFairfax@cs.com > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 9:12 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] US Airline restrictions - sewing stuff (?) > > Hi- > > I'm making a coast-to-coast run this weekend with fairly long > layovers & > I'd like to get some hemming/handwork finished. Since 9/11, I know > some > of my coworkers have had their manicure set scissors taken away. > > I want to be completely on the up-and-up, but I also don't want to > be > bored out of my skull. Have any of you traveled in the US lately > with > sewing implements? Are needles (little sharps) ok? How about > snips? I > assume ghingers are still out. I can imagine trying to get through > with > a set of pinking shears. :) > > Constance > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 12:33:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGXYHP026612 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:33:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A1560P002118 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 19:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A14mIP023449; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 19:04:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4.mebtel.net [64.40.67.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A14jIP023380 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 19:04:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-68.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.68]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3712927F83 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:56:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F0CCA44.4030705@grics.net> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 21:07:00 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <20030709215542.25082.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030709215542.25082.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Subject: [h-cost] Redneck fabric stores and men X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO (Oops, looks like I missed that last post Jeff) Maybe you could stick a screwdriver in your shirt pocket and act like you do stuff in the back? You have my deepest sympathies, marooned out in BFE *and* stuck in a fabric shop with the quilt ladies. Where i live you can't find gingham (I like the 1" for mockups) but you *can* find fabric with little green and yellow tractors all over it. ! Hang in there, it has to end someday, and you have the World's Largest Stitch-n-B**** welcoming you back when you get off work! Heather L Jeff Brainard wrote: >Jeez, and I was just thinking, "who's got TWO husbands, that lucky >b****!" Thanks for the support. Were I in a city or such, I'm sure it >wouldn't be a problem working in a fabric store, but I'm in the middle >of the rednecky half of Montana (there are pockets of enlightenment, >just not anywhere near THIS town). I'm job hunting right now and am >going to speak to a lawyer next week just to scope out my options, >though I suspect a lawsuit wouldn't be worth the emotional toll it'd >take. > >Jeff > > >--- IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > > >>In a message dated 7/9/03 2:45:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >>IceGirlNIN@aol.com writes: >> >> >> >>>Your two husbands are definitely NOT alone in this! >>> >>> >>Ah, I should clarify that. I meant to say the two people who were >>mentioning >>that the men in their lives were being given this treatment, and I >>think the >>original poster was..Jeff? So that's really three people, I think? >>I should >>just not write e-mails at 2am. >> >>Christine >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo >http://search.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 12:35:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGYxHP026825 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:34:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGWl0P009517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:32:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGWjV6020500; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:32:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGWgV6020409 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:32:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-237-231.client.attbi.com[12.246.237.231](untrusted sender)) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003071016323601100im8f5e>; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:32:36 +0000 Message-ID: <3F0D9527.1060301@fenris.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:32:39 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: airline security, Re: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 402 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Freyalyn Close-Hainsworth wrote: >>As for thread cutting: I say it again, take a dental floss >>package with you. >> >> > >When I flew to America last year, I tucked a couple of sewing needles inside >my dental floss case, which split open very easily. I also tucked metal >double-pointed knitting needles down the metal spine of my diary/organiser >thing. > snip > >when I've spoken to other people about this, the general response seems to >be that if you ask airline staff "is this OK?" the answer is always no. >Carry something small and apparently innocuous, and they won't notice. > > > The fellow at the Toledo OH airport asked me, "do you have any sharp objects?". And I said "No", because I didn't consider my wooden dp knitting needles 'sharp'. I have no idea what they'd look like in a scanner. liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 12:35:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGZFHP026868 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:35:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGXO0P009569 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:33:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGXOV6020988; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:33:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.179]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6AGXKV6020938 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:33:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-66-127-113-236.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@66.127.113.236 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 16:33:19 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:33:10 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030710115326.K24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> Message-Id: <31C041A2-B2F4-11D7-B7FF-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > So, you're in Flaming Gryphon? I don't think I've met you, have I? Different Sarah. ;) This is Sarah Goodman. I think Sarra is the "sarah" you're looking for. Hehehe. Okay, this is why I should legally change my name. "Sarah" is just too common! Of course "Goodman" is also a really common last name, and apparently there are quite a few Sarah Goodman's out there who are not me, one of whom is even a costumer, herself! Thankfully, the last name problem will be resolved the weekend after next when I shall magically transform myself into Sarah Rodriguez. Or should that be Goodman-Rodriguez? Hmmm. Sarah The-As-Yet-Untitled _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 12:52:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGqMHP002790 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:52:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGoK0P011276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:50:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGoIV6004544; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:50:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGoCV6004415 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:50:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.3e.324d0882 (4320) for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:49:57 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <3e.324d0882.2c3ef335@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:49:57 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/10/2003 11:33:54 AM Central Standard Time, sarah@elizabethanlady.com writes: > >So, you're in Flaming Gryphon? I don't think I've met you, have I? > > Different Sarah. ;) > > This is Sarah Goodman. I think Sarra is the "sarah" you're looking > for. Hehehe. > I am Sarra who is also Sarah but not Sarah. Mundanely, I am Sarah, not mundanely I am Sarra. See how creative and original I am? I think I should have a title "No-The-Other-One". You know, I once read a book set in the 16th C that had a character called Goodman Wright. Coincidence? I think not. I can't remember if he was a snazzy dresser or if he married a Spaniard. Yup, I'm in Flaming Gryphon (Marche of the Unicorny flavored) and nope I have not met you yet. I'm trying to get better at going to events....even though they are *Outside* and have no AC..and there's all these guys hitting each other with sticks, wussup with that? I did lurk around Kingdom A&S but it was inside, with AC, and therefore good. -Sarra "No, The Other One" Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 13:04:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AH49HP010037 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:04:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGxT0P012223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:59:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGxPpl011799; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:59:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AGxIpl011714 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:59:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool0515.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.178.148.5] helo=earthlink.net) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19aelJ-0005KZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:59:18 -0700 Message-ID: <3F0D9C8D.E53D04AF@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:04:13 -0700 From: Cecilia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] US Airline restrictions - sewing stuff (?) References: <5EA74AC2.2F048A84.349D0FDF@cs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ConstanceFairfax@cs.com wrote: > I want to be completely on the up-and-up, but I also don't want to be bored out of my skull. Have any of you traveled in the US lately with sewing implements? Are needles (little sharps) ok? How about snips? I assume ghingers are still out. I can imagine trying to get through with a set of pinking shears. :) I've flown recently on Alaska Air and had no problems with my knitting. However, I made sure that my scissors were put in my baggage and not with my carry-on stuff. It's always a good idea to look up the carrier/s that you will be flying on the internet -- most have a site which lists what is / is not permitted with carry-on. That being said, a few people have been surprised at how this list is interpreted by the security personal themselves. Personally, I wouldn't bring anything as carry-on that I would not be willing to forfeit at security. As someone else noted, it is also a good idea to find out what is / is not allowed at the various airports you'll be at. Again, remember that, if our level of concern were to increase while you were on your trip, the rules could change. On this trip (a few days ago) and when I was admitted to the actual waiting area with my invalid mother last fall (3 different occasions), I saw several women working on various types of handwork that involved needles. Those flights were all last fall and were all on Southwest. The airport was Ontario, California. Regarding the pendant/cutter - Though it may pass as just a pendant, I wouldn't count on it. In my recent experience, people with much less than the medal on this pendant have set off the metal walk-through detectors. If a security guard were to carefully scrutinize the pendant, you can see the sections of what look like razor blade within the unit. It might be enough to get taken away. Floss sounds like the best approach to this problem. -- Cecilia, who had jury duty yesterday and was concerned about bringing her knitting to the courthouse. Actually they were more concerned with the breakfast that I brought. So what do I know? knitting a new paradigm in southern California pyrfectpup@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~pyrfectpup/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 13:12:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AHC6HP013838 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:12:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AH7L0P013217 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:07:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AH7Jpl018533; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:07:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6AH7Cpl018467 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:07:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 68962 invoked by uid 1005); 10 Jul 2003 17:07:05 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.127447 secs); 10 Jul 2003 17:07:05 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.127447 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 17:07:04 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:07:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope In-Reply-To: <31C041A2-B2F4-11D7-B7FF-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> Message-ID: <20030710130524.G24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Doh! Sorry. Too many Sarahs. :) In fact, I was a hairsbreadth away from being named Sarah at birth. I've been told I looked like a Sarah. Maybe I am secretly a Sarah, after all. Che Sarah, Sarah. I lucked out. So did my sister Inga, who, if she had been male, would have been saddled with the name "Joachim Amadeus"... Drea On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Sarah wrote: > > > So, you're in Flaming Gryphon? I don't think I've met you, have I? > > Different Sarah. ;) > > This is Sarah Goodman. I think Sarra is the "sarah" you're looking > for. Hehehe. > > Okay, this is why I should legally change my name. "Sarah" is just too > common! Of course "Goodman" is also a really common last name, and > apparently there are quite a few Sarah Goodman's out there who are not > me, one of whom is even a costumer, herself! Thankfully, the last name > problem will be resolved the weekend after next when I shall magically > transform myself into Sarah Rodriguez. Or should that be > Goodman-Rodriguez? Hmmm. > > Sarah The-As-Yet-Untitled > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 13:18:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AHI1HP013851 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:18:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AHDt0P013978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:13:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AHDspl023616; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:13:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AHDnpl023539 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:13:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12F6436B33 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19aezM-0000xC-00 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:13:48 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope In-Reply-To: <20030710095627.Y24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> References: <3F0D745F.20208@faucet.net> <20030710095627.Y24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:13:48 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drea wrote: > There's a picture of a woman in the Milanese Tailor's Handbook, where her > farthingale appears to start at the bottom and spiral up: > http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/pages/f103R.html > > The rope appears to have been whipstitched to the outside of the Italian > woman's farthingale, rather than sewn into tucks. Oooh, that makes me happy! I'm about to start a corded petticoat, and was dreading sewing those channels. Whipstitching, though, *that* I can do very happily! Though I think I might sew it to the inside of the petticoat rather than the outside. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 13:27:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AHRtHP013868 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:27:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AHNW0P015131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:23:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AHNUpl001525; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:23:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AHNRpl001495 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:23:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix, from userid 313) id A80B52F94E; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:24:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: airline security, Re: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:24:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "Elizabeth Young" at Jul 10, 2003 09:32:39 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030710172420.A80B52F94E@jabberwock.wonderland.com> From: alice@wonderland.com (Heather Meadows) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It seems to me since this topic comes up at least once every two months, it might be a good time for someone to put together an FAQ. I don't want to write it, but I do have webspace to host it if someone else does. .heather. > > Freyalyn Close-Hainsworth wrote: > > >>As for thread cutting: I say it again, take a dental floss > >>package with you. > >> > >> > > > >When I flew to America last year, I tucked a couple of sewing needles inside > >my dental floss case, which split open very easily. I also tucked metal > >double-pointed knitting needles down the metal spine of my diary/organiser > >thing. > > > snip > > > > >when I've spoken to other people about this, the general response seems to > >be that if you ask airline staff "is this OK?" the answer is always no. > >Carry something small and apparently innocuous, and they won't notice. > > > > > > > The fellow at the Toledo OH airport asked me, "do you have any sharp > objects?". And I said "No", because I didn't consider my wooden dp > knitting needles 'sharp'. > I have no idea what they'd look like in a scanner. > > liz young > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 13:47:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AHlsHP013906 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:47:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AHjt0P017265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:45:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AHjrpl019224; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:45:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40912.mail.yahoo.com (web40912.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.209]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6AHjopl019133 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:45:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030710174544.75003.qmail@web40912.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.104.32.34] by web40912.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:45:44 PDT Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:45:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200307101628.h6AGRsV8016670@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: gothic fitted gown questions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin wrote: Hmm, sounds like the front continued straight far lower than I would have done. I look for the point at which the pieces want to diverge and flare/gore gently from that point. You *want* the belly to protrude. Well, yes, and I think this gown was made too tight across the ribcage, and that probably carried over to the abdomen. I do include a section in my website for fitting the abdomen, and it discusses the same issue -- that we can create our waist wherever we want, often much higher than the bellybutton-waist that modern fashion dictates. I flare from that point of smallest circumference around the middle. The flare often begins anywhere from 2 to 4 inches below the bottom of the bust, max. The bellybutton tends to be around 6-7 inches below the bottom of the bust, very roughly guessing. I once flat-drafted a costume pattern (not for one of these gowns, but for another dress style that had an a-line skirt) for a friend who was quite upset when she saw how 'high' I was placing her waist. She panicked and insisted I place it lower. The problem was, the way her body was shaped, I could not draw the pattern in an hour-glass fashion if I tried to put the waist where she was used to thinking it was. When she realized this, she saw what I had been doing -- accentuating the only spot on her middle that still indented a bit beneath her bust. Most mature women tend to grow little pot bellies in the bellybutton region, and having children certainly can make them more pronounced. I stopped caring about a flat stomach years ago -- when I realized it was for the adolescent and the naturally gazelle-like, but not me. :^) Luckily the period art shows a lot of variety in abdomen-shaping, and you can either fit closely to the hips all the way around or flare the front (and to some degree the side seams too) as high up as you want, provided the bust is still supported. Tasha ===== http://www.cottesimple.com An exploration of European clothing and accessories from the late 14th/early 15th centuries. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 13:48:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AHmHHP013909 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:48:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AHkL0P017301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:46:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AHkLpl019580; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:46:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pd2mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AHkIpl019547 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:46:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pd4mr2so.prod.shaw.ca (pd4mr2so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.213]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HHT003A7L4V3A@l-daemon> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:41:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml9so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml9so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.7]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HHT00E8SL4V47@l-daemon> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:41:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jenpotts (h24-70-101-70.ok.shawcable.net [24.70.101.70]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with SMTP id <0HHT00718L4U8O@l-daemon> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:41:19 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:38:16 -0700 From: Jennifer Potts To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <002001c3470a$0bb28600$46654618@ok.shawcable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Caraco? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h6AHmHHP013909 Status: RO I have a copy of a pattern made from an extant Caraco, if you are interested in a copy. Your draping has the right idea, but the construction is a bit different than a normal bodice. Let me know privately if you would like a copy. Jennifer Potts aka Senora Giacyntha Francesca Maria Cocchetti jenpotts@shaw.ca THERE IS A FINE LINE BETWEEN HOBBY AND MENTAL ILLNESS.... Message: 5 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 05:01:47 +0200 From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Subject: [h-cost] Caraco? To: Message-ID: <000d01c344fd$4558fba0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello again. Now here is the outfit i would like to make for the swedish lady. U know the swedish society of Gustafs Skl prefer to dress very late 18th century. I found this fashion print. but what would you call this? And do you think i have made it right CF? With buttons closings? I want to make it in grey damask and blue underskirt. Thanks for any advises http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/is_this_a_caraco_jacket.htm Bjarne Jennifer Potts aka Senora Giacyntha Francesca Maria Cocchetti jenpotts@shaw.ca THERE IS A FINE LINE BETWEEN HOBBY AND MENTAL ILLNESS...._______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 14:01:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AI1uHP013964 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:01:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AHvd0P018485 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:57:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AHvbLF027964; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:57:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pd6mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AHvYLF027912 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:57:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pd5mr3so.prod.shaw.ca (pd5mr3so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.144]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HHT00GIWLRXL8@l-daemon> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:55:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml1so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml1so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.145]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HHT00GDXLRWFS@l-daemon> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:55:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jenpotts (h24-70-101-70.ok.shawcable.net [24.70.101.70]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with SMTP id <0HHT00F2MLRV4L@l-daemon> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:55:08 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:52:05 -0700 From: Jennifer Potts To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <004901c3470b$f9e8c5e0$46654618@ok.shawcable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Blackwork shift questions/beading questions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Kat, Not such a drive as I live in Vernon right now - in the Okanagan Region of BC - about a 1 1/2 hour drive from here. The problem is going to be finding some place to store my stuff while Im living in my mom's basement, looking for a new home. ACK! In response to your comment about embroidery being used to strengthen seams, Im working on a chemise with blackwork to finish the seams. I cut all the panels of the chemise at 23 inches wide, as that is the approx. width of an ell of fabric (or so it was quoted here a while back). As soon as I have my "stuff" sorted out again, and have access to a digital camera, I'll put it up on my website (which is in dire need of attention right now.) Jennifer Potts aka Senora Giacyntha Francesca Maria Cocchetti jenpotts@shaw.ca THERE IS A FINE LINE BETWEEN HOBBY AND MENTAL ILLNESS.... Message: 9 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:25:43 -0700 From: kat@grendal.rain.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork shift questions/beading questions To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <3F0D2307.15328.18D48019@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > I have a picture of an extant Italian chemise with embroidery around > the neck and down the sleeves and body of the chemise. The embroidery > goes all the way around the neckline. As soon as I can find it, I > will post it on my website for you if you would like. Im sorry, I > cant even give you a book to look for right now. All my books are > packed and have left for Kamloops already. Milia Davenport's Book of Costume has one. There are several embroidery books which have pictures of them too. Kamloops! What a drive! > On square neck Elizabethan shifts with the > blackwork embroidery around the edge of the square > neck would the embroidery go around the entire edge or > would it just be a band across the front where it > would show? The embroidery is over the entire shift often times much like ours do with printed fabrics. The embroidery on seams was to a purpose: strengthening the seams. Kat Jennifer Potts aka Senora Giacyntha Francesca Maria Cocchetti jenpotts@shaw.ca THERE IS A FINE LINE BETWEEN HOBBY AND MENTAL ILLNESS.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 14:11:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AIBgHP013990 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:11:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AI9c0P020121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:09:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AI9bLF007627; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:09:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imf22aec.bellsouth.net (imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.59.70]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AI9XLF007522 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:09:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sarah ([216.76.153.228]) by imf22aec.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.27 201-253-122-126-127-20021220) with SMTP id <20030710180926.SHVI27778.imf22aec.bellsouth.net@sarah> for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:09:26 -0400 From: "Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Spiral farthingale Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:09:08 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20030710095627.Y24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just out of curiosity, why would you think this a farthingale, and not a decorated forepart? Apollonia Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi Kingdom of Atlantia www.livejournal.com/users/apollonia **La vita senz'onore e un viver morto.** -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Drea Leed Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 10:11 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope >> I'm really looking forward to making a farthingale out of it. I think >> I'll do the spiral-up-the-farthingale method, rather than separate >> rings, to avoid kinking. > > I can picture this, but I've never heard of it--was it done in the 16th > century? There's a picture of a woman in the Milanese Tailor's Handbook, where her farthingale appears to start at the bottom and spiral up: http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/pages/f103R.html The rope appears to have been whipstitched to the outside of the Italian woman's farthingale, rather than sewn into tucks. I've seen another, similar picture, showing the bottom ring going around and then the rest slanting a bit, but can't currently remember where. I found a tailor's bill which mentioned "50 yds of bent rope" (sic) for two spanish farthingales, which works out to @25 yds apiece...only workable if the rope was sewn on as narrowly as it is on the Italian woman's skirt. That's the amount I plan to use on my next farthingale. In such a case it would be much easier, work-wise, to have one band of bent rope spiraling around than to cut and splice the two dozen or so separate rounds required. I have a hunch it will make the farthingale sturdier as well. I've found references to bent rope on farthingales being covered with bands of contrasting fabric, which is what I plan to do: burgundy shot-silk taffeta farthingale, with a black velvet band covering the bent rope. 17 yards to go...:) Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 14:12:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AICXHP013996 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:12:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AI8b0P020028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:08:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AI8ZLF006927; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:08:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AI8TLF006809 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:08:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-36-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.36.253]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6AI8RFv028283 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030710102420.00e2c100@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:25:40 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] US Airline restrictions - sewing stuff (?) In-Reply-To: <5EA74AC2.2F048A84.349D0FDF@cs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I'm making a coast-to-coast run this weekend with fairly long layovers & >I'd like to get some hemming/handwork finished. Since 9/11, I know some >of my coworkers have had their manicure set scissors taken away. > >I want to be completely on the up-and-up, but I also don't want to be >bored out of my skull. Have any of you traveled in the US lately with >sewing implements? Are needles (little sharps) ok? How about snips? I >assume ghingers are still out. I can imagine trying to get through with a >set of pinking shears. :) I saw an ad, in a recent needlework catalog, for those Clover round medallions that are really thread cutters, and the ad said it was OK for airline travel. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 14:22:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AIMXHP014043 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:22:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AIKW0P021183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:20:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AIKVLF015492; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:20:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6AIKRLF015466 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:20:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 6399 invoked by uid 1005); 10 Jul 2003 18:20:19 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.075148 secs); 10 Jul 2003 18:20:19 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.075148 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 18:20:19 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:20:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Spiral farthingale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030710141419.W24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There's no real proof one way or the other that it's a forepart or a farthingale. >From the descriptions of decorated foreparts I've read and the ones I've seen in pictures, however, I'm more included to believe this is a farthingale. It looks more like bent rope stitched to a skirt than the decorative embroidery motifs found in portraits and wardrobe accounts. Plus, the asymettrical bottom is something you'd more likely see in a farthingale, rather than a forepart with decorative welts or cord going around it, where it would be much easier to keep the trim parallel at the bottom. Decorative foreparts were sometimes sewn to farthingales, an indication that in some cases the farthingale could be worn directly beneath the front skirt opening, rather than under a kirtle beneath the front skirt opening. I'm keeping an eye out for more definitive proof; if you find any, I'd love to know. Thanks, Drea On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi wrote: > Just out of curiosity, why would you think this a farthingale, and not a > decorated forepart? > > Apollonia > > Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi > Kingdom of Atlantia > www.livejournal.com/users/apollonia > > **La vita senz'onore e un viver morto.** > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Drea Leed > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 10:11 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope > > > > >> I'm really looking forward to making a farthingale out of it. I think > >> I'll do the spiral-up-the-farthingale method, rather than separate > >> rings, to avoid kinking. > > > > > I can picture this, but I've never heard of it--was it done in the 16th > > century? > > There's a picture of a woman in the Milanese Tailor's Handbook, where her > farthingale appears to start at the bottom and spiral up: > http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/pages/f103R.html > > The rope appears to have been whipstitched to the outside of the Italian > woman's farthingale, rather than sewn into tucks. > > I've seen another, similar picture, showing the bottom ring going around > and then the rest slanting a bit, but can't currently remember where. > > I found a tailor's bill which mentioned "50 yds of bent rope" (sic) for > two spanish farthingales, which works out to @25 yds apiece...only > workable if the rope was sewn on as narrowly as it is on the Italian > woman's skirt. That's the amount I plan to use on my next farthingale. > > In such a case it would be much easier, work-wise, to have one band of > bent rope spiraling around than to cut and splice the two dozen or so > separate rounds required. I have a hunch it will make the farthingale > sturdier as well. I've found references to bent rope on > farthingales being covered with bands of contrasting fabric, which is > what I plan to do: burgundy shot-silk taffeta farthingale, with a black > velvet band covering the bent rope. > > 17 yards to go...:) > > Drea > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 14:26:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AIQNHP014053 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:26:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AIMZ0P021418 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:22:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AIMXLF016889; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:22:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AIMTLF016796 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:22:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.4a.1f7fbd1d (15875) for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:22:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-m11.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.139]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v94.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID72-3e033f0daecd394; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:22:06 -0400 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:22:05 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1D4B7F12.6B2523CB.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been involved in some debates lately over the importance/authenticity of finishing seams. I was asked to judge an entry that was made of the most beautiful hand woven (by the entrant), slightly fulled diamond lozenge wool. When I lifted the tunic, the front gore and rear gore were bulky in an odd way - and I turned to the inside & ALL of the seams were frenched. I talked to the entrant later about other construction techniques and the entrant agreed the frenching (unneccessary for this fabric) caused the problems with the gore. Someone had told the entrant that it was proper to french those seams and if she did not she would lose points. *I* have also had people ask me "how did you finish that seam" - my reply is usually, "I ironed it flat" and occasionally, "I ironed it flat and fulled" The last time, the asker replied with a disappointed "Oh. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk." I haven't had any problem with the unfinished seams of linen shirts raveling...or wool dresses. Certainly, there are instances that you'd want to finish a seam - if there's high stress, if you're using old or fine silk, etc...but WOOL on a non-stressed seam? And, if you must finish the seam, why not do it in a more documentable way? Is this a "serger mentality"? Constance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 14:36:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AIamHP014108 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:36:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AIX50P022466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:33:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AIX3LF024726; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:33:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AIV9LF023323 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:31:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49](untrusted sender)) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20030710183104016000v932e>; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:31:04 +0000 Message-ID: <05d001c34711$7124d040$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1D4B7F12.6B2523CB.349D0FDF@cs.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:31:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I remember once when I was young finding a tailor's kit that belonged to my father. This kit was one that showed you how to weave the frayed edges of wool rip back into the fabric. I had been thinking about this a while and wondered if this was possibly how they finished seams for items such as these. I mean not only would you avoid the fraying problem but the bulkiness as well. Is there evidence of frayed edges being rewoven back into the fabric? Sincerely, Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 1:22 PM Subject: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish : I've been involved in some debates lately over the importance/authenticity of finishing seams. : : I was asked to judge an entry that was made of the most beautiful hand woven (by the entrant), slightly fulled diamond lozenge wool. When I lifted the tunic, the front gore and rear gore were bulky in an odd way - and I turned to the inside & ALL of the seams were frenched. I talked to the entrant later about other construction techniques and the entrant agreed the frenching (unneccessary for this fabric) caused the problems with the gore. Someone had told the entrant that it was proper to french those seams and if she did not she would lose points. : : *I* have also had people ask me "how did you finish that seam" - my reply is usually, "I ironed it flat" and occasionally, "I ironed it flat and fulled" The last time, the asker replied with a disappointed "Oh. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk." I haven't had any problem with the unfinished seams of linen shirts raveling...or wool dresses. : : Certainly, there are instances that you'd want to finish a seam - if there's high stress, if you're using old or fine silk, etc...but WOOL on a non-stressed seam? And, if you must finish the seam, why not do it in a more documentable way? Is this a "serger mentality"? : : Constance : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 14:51:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AIpZHP014154 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:51:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AIlJ0P024097 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:47:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AIlHLF005725; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:47:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AIlELF005609 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:47:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp03509979pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net[68.54.185.111](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20030710184706015008vqhqe> (Authid: cozit); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:47:06 +0000 Message-ID: <3F0DB4BD.6030603@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:47:25 -0400 From: Cozit / Liz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200307101435.h6AEZkDv026066@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: US Airline restrictions - sewing stuff (?) --- WEBSITE to check X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sigh... there's a website... I'm just moaning 'cause it's the 5th or 6th time I've posted it somewhere or other. http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/tsa_policy/tsa_policy_0010.xml Yes, it's the official site, there's a link to the PDF file there. *Yes* blunt tipped children's scissors are on the permitted list... have been for *months* now... as are nail clippers, even with the nice pointy files. Knitting needles (and they finally updated the silly thing to include crochet hooks :-) are also permitted.. they don't even specify length/size/type limitations. Personally, I think they finally realized that all of us who are major fidgiters were much easier to deal with when we had our safe "pointies" to keep our hands and at least half a brain busy on flights... rather than having to repeatedly tell us to stop climbing the sides of the plane, 'cause it makes them wobble :-) I know people who have started taking sewing with them.... and the needles have been allowed. I also know a few who took tapestry needles for cross-stitched who had them almost taken away. Best bet is only take one or two with your project, put a couple more in your checked luggage just in case... then *respectfully* ask them (only if they object to them) to allow you to keep them, given that they are blunt, and not only smaller than a knitting needle but also less sharp than the pins on many PDA styluses. Then don't object if they tell you to give them up anyway. BTW, you *can* sew with a 26 or 28 tapestry needle, if the weave isn't *too* tight. I've done it a couple of times because either I didn't realize it or because I'd lost my sharps. Now after all of that... one thing they vaguely mention halfway down the first page is that individual screeners can decide that just because it's on the permitted list doesn't mean that you can bring it on. If you have a copy of the official list, sometimes they'll decide "ok"... or at least let you mail it back to your home or destination. *g* I had a pair of kid's scissors (blunt tipped) in my purse, and didn't realize it *before* it was put back on the permitted list (had forgotten they were there for the trip back home). I also had needles pass through when they were *not* permitted.... left it in my work... again, by accident. Then again, I'm the one who seems to always get dusted for explosive residue... too many computer chips in the kid's activities (like a Jumpstart LeapPad) I guess.... Best bet? Pre-cut some lengths, wrap them on an empty bobbin/spool. Take a needle or two, pack extras so you don't have to go shoppping, just in case. Take the scissors with you (*blunt* tipped... see the website).... and be prepared to give them up if security proves to be PITAs.... Crayola's kiddie scissors cut fairly well, and they're usually under $5. *g* And this time I'm saving this message so I can just run it up the next time... -Elisabeth >From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com >Subject: [h-cost] US Airline restrictions - sewing stuff (?) > >I'm making a coast-to-coast run this weekend with fairly long layovers & I'd like to get some hemming/handwork finished. Since 9/11, I know some of my coworkers have had their manicure set scissors taken away. > >I want to be completely on the up-and-up, but I also don't want to be bored out of my skull. Have any of you traveled in the US lately with sewing implements? Are needles (little sharps) ok? How about snips? I assume ghingers are still out. I can imagine trying to get through with a set of pinking shears. :) > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 15:11:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AJBcHP014231 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:11:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AJ7g0P026518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:07:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AJ7elL021991; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:07:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AJ7alL021892 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:07:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1ce.d957cd3 (15899) for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:07:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-m19.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.135]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v94.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID92-3e1b3f0db96f1a7; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:07:28 -0400 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:07:27 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: THANK YOU - RE: [h-cost] Re: US Airline restrictions - sewing stuff (?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <46C0888F.5DBC7C04.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you everyone for your help - I'm a bit hypersensitive as I once unknowingly had a leatherman tool (a swiss army knife on steroids) in one of the many pockets of an overnight case - I got chewed out, and that was well before 9/11. >Sigh... there's a website... I'm just moaning 'cause it's the 5th or 6th >time I've posted it somewhere or other. Sorry for the trouble- I did look on the internet before I posted my request but found very conflicting information. Constance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 15:40:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AJedHP014291 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:40:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AJch0P029935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:38:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AJcelL015526; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:38:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out006.verizon.net (out006pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AJcZlL015380 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:38:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by out006.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20030710193830.ODUA16647.out006.verizon.net@localhost> for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:38:30 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.10 (webedge20-101-190-20021211) From: Ron Carnegie To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] clothing on display at Colonial Williamsburg? Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:38:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [127.0.0.1] at Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:38:30 -0500 Message-Id: <20030710193830.ODUA16647.out006.verizon.net@localhost> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > From: Cozit / Liz > Date: 2003/07/09 Wed PM 02:29:18 EDT > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] clothing on display at Colonial Williamsburg? > > The DeWitt - Wallace has a room just for clothing and embroidery (and > other textiles)... Unless they're in the middle of making a major change > to the exhibit there's always something. > > Having said that, as a heads up... Double check the hours of the room > before you head over there. I know that someone told me that it's > always open now, but just a few years ago it had fairly limited hours... > which weren't actually listed on the program for the Colonial area. *G* > I got *very* *very* lucky... I was complaining (nicely, but I was very > unhappy because I had to leave the area before it was supposed to open > for the afternoon) at the information desk about how it was mentioned > specifically, but that no mention had been given of the limited hours, > and I had walked all the way over there *just* for that exhibit... and > one of the curators for the room just happened to be nearby, and on her > way to the room. She was *so* nice... not only did she let me in, but > she let me stay there all by my lonesome in the (then) locked room when > she had to leave about 30 min. later... though she did turn the lights > by the doors off .... no prob, I was checking out the samplers at that > point :-) .... Best ever trip for me there... I had the chance at a 30 > min chat with the Tailor who happened to be in "his shop" that day as > well... about stays, corsets, and undertrimmings in general.) > > I'm going to have to chose between CW and the Jamestown (including the > re-enactment area) this year... kiddies are coming along, so I'm > thinking it'll be Jamestown this summer.... > > -Elisabeth > If you do go to Jamestowne rather than the Dewitt you will miss the" Language of Clothing" exhibit which is currently up. At least I think it is still up. This is an very nice exhibit of historic clothing, and due to muted lighting conditions it is open when the muesum is. Try the CW webpage www.history.org if you want more information, or the 1-800-history line. Of course if you do go to the Jamsetown Settlement you can meet my wife! Cheers, Ron R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 15:52:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AJqQHP014322 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:52:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AJnb0P001372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:49:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AJnalL024096; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:49:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out006.verizon.net (out006pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AJnVlL023928 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:49:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by out006.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20030710194926.OHBV16647.out006.verizon.net@localhost> for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:49:26 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.10 (webedge20-101-190-20021211) From: Ron Carnegie To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] clothing on display at Colonial Williamsburg? Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:49:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [127.0.0.1] at Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:49:26 -0500 Message-Id: <20030710194926.OHBV16647.out006.verizon.net@localhost> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > From: Melanie Schuessler > Date: 2003/07/09 Wed PM 02:42:22 EDT > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] clothing on display at Colonial Williamsburg? > > Greetings > > I'll be taking a road trip at the end of next week, and I'd like to > visit Colonial Williamsburg on the way since I've never been there. I > was wondering if any of their historic clothing collection is on > display? I believe Ron Carnegie works there and is also on this list...Ron? > > Thanks, > Melanie Schuessler > http://www.faucet.net/costume > Yes I do, though not as a costumer. The "Language of Costume" exhibit is currently on display at the Dewitt and is well worth anyone's time. Unlike the old textiles room it has subdued lighting allowing it to remain open when the mueseum is open. If you have the time, and are interested in something in particuler you can contact Linda Baumgarten to see things that are not currently displayed, but conservetors can be a little wonky if you just want to peruse. Also you may want to meet Mark Hutter who is the tailor that is occasionally mentioned here or Max Hamric is is an excellent weaver currently working at the Abby Aldrich. Some of his cloth is for sale at the "new" prentis store, but it is expensive. Cheers, Ron R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 16:14:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AKEnHP014423 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:14:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AKBG0P003903 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:11:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AKBEGI010777; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:11:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6AKBAGI010731 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:11:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 10847 invoked by uid 1005); 10 Jul 2003 20:11:00 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.079834 secs); 10 Jul 2003 20:11:00 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.079834 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 20:11:00 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:11:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish In-Reply-To: <1D4B7F12.6B2523CB.349D0FDF@cs.com> Message-ID: <20030710160916.V24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Certainly, there are instances that you'd want to finish a seam - if there's high stress, if you're using old or fine silk, etc...but WOOL on a non-stressed seam? And, if you must finish the seam, why not do it in a more documentable way? Is this a "serger mentality"? I think it's more of an SCA-knee-jerk-A&S-judging-mentality. I've met other victims of it...one woman made a linen smock with unfinished seams, and had photos of the unfinished seams of the original she based it off of in her documentation and explained that that's why she'd done it the way she had, and /still/ one of the judges docked her points for it. Very silly. Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 16:38:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AKcfHP014538 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:38:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AKUC0P005993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:30:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AKU5Bd025119; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:30:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6AKTvBd024888 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:29:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWiX8l4Ou1xX8EXRpEO7TdAELNcpjut16IQ==">; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:29:33 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H4RMJEWV; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:29:33 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:26:22 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Message-ID: <20030710.162622.-156531.1.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6-8 From: catpurson@juno.com X-DCC-SPAMCHECK.NET-Metrics: net.indra.com 1168; From=1 Message-ID=1 Received=1 Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It might be an SCA thing or not, but unless it is absolutely not period, I prefer to finish some seams. Linen ravels, velveteen spreads little bits of fluff all over everything, and it is just neater. Of course, I haven't put any of my garb in competition either. I don't really think the judges know as much as they think they do and I know that I don't know enough to argue with them myself. It just seems like a finished seam is - well - a finished seam. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 16:39:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AKdaHP014552 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:39:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AKaT0P006762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:36:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AKaRBd000455; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:36:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt25.cluster1.charter.net (remt25.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AKaNBd000304 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:36:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [68.185.167.6] (HELO laptop) by remt25.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with SMTP id 88383039 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:36:16 -0400 Message-ID: <00af01c34722$e26780c0$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F0D745F.20208@faucet.net><20030710095627.Y24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:36:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Oooh, that makes me happy! I'm about to start a corded petticoat, and > was dreading sewing those channels. Whipstitching, though, *that* I can > do very happily! Though I think I might sew it to the inside of the > petticoat rather than the outside. > I made myself a corded petticoat just recently and used this trick: Use a double needle, put the cording on the bottom of your fabric and have the needle straddle it. The bobbin thread zig-zags to keep the cording in place! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 16:53:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AKrRHP014612 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:53:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AKoK0P008586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:50:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AKoIJi012101; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:50:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AKoBJi011990 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:50:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id h6AKoBx164297 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:50:11 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:50:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish In-Reply-To: <20030710.162622.-156531.1.catpurson@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've become a proponent of finished seams, usually with the seam allowance pressed flat (with my thumb, not an iron) and whipped down. I've found that it makes the seam flatter, especially with fabrics that are bulky or particularly springy (a well-fulled wool and a wool crepe, respectively), and I never have to re-press them open. I think the entry's mistake (not necesssarily the entrant's mistake) was the assumption that french seams are the only proper seam finish. Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 16:54:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AKsUHP014617 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:54:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AKq60P008816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:52:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AKq4Ji013477; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:52:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AKq0Ji013418 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17307 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:16:42 -0500 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:16:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gothic fitted gown questions In-Reply-To: <20030710174544.75003.qmail@web40912.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin: > Hmm, sounds like the front continued straight far lower than I would > have done. I look for the point at which the pieces want to diverge > and flare/gore gently from that point. You *want* the belly to > protrude. Tasha: > Well, yes, and I think this gown was made too tight across the > ribcage, and that probably carried over to the abdomen. I do include a > section in my website for fitting the abdomen, and it discusses the > same issue -- that we can create our waist wherever we want, often > much higher than the bellybutton-waist that modern fashion dictates. I > flare from that point of smallest circumference around the middle. The > flare often begins anywhere from 2 to 4 inches below the bottom of the > bust, max. The bellybutton tends to be around 6-7 inches below the > bottom of the bust, very roughly guessing. Me again: Yes! Me too. When I fit the torso, I let the fabric pieces fall open below the functional supportive fitting area and then pin the edges in place to skim the swell of the top of the belly, increasing the flare on the same angle as I go further down so it falls into the typical folding pattern you see in the artwork -- from about halfway between waist and hip. There's actually a mathematical model you can use for this, but just doing it on the body means you don't have to measure or figure. The point at which you depart from the "skimming" and simply maintain the flare determines the ultimate flare on the skirt. I allow enough seam allowance on the front opening to let me get a little of the flare into the front panels; when I hit the edge of the panel, that's where the gore comes in. This is, of course, on the lining. When I use the lining to cut the main fabric, I can sometimes scoot the entire piece a bit further over from the selvedge to capture all of the flare without having to gore the main fabric. In other words, you can have a gore on your lining and still not need a gore on the outside. It all depends on the degree of flare required on the particular woman, and the degree of fullness you want in the skirt. It's worth noting that the earlier fitted dresses (c. 1350) have a more columnar look, and clearly less flare; they're narrower all the way down compared with later ones. The Machaut manuscripts are the obvious example, though there are many others, all from this period. I have some theories about why this was so at this point in the century, and what technological developments contributed to the wider skirts of a few decades later, but this is better explained in person, with pictures. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 17:03:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AL3pHP014659 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:03:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AL1v0P009969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:01:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AL1rlJ021975; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:01:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6AL1nlJ021907 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:01:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 94551 invoked by uid 1005); 10 Jul 2003 21:01:38 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.593942 secs); 10 Jul 2003 21:01:38 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.593942 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 21:01:37 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:01:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030710162150.K24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Oooh, that makes me happy! I'm about to start a corded petticoat, and > was dreading sewing those channels. Whipstitching, though, *that* I can > do very happily! Though I think I might sew it to the inside of the > petticoat rather than the outside. True. One thing, though--it can be demmed uncomfortable trying to sit in a petticoat corded on the inside, depending on the size of the cording. :) I'm looking forward to seeing how the bands of contrasting color look on the outside, once I'm done. Let me know how yours works...we can compare. I've been thinking about exactly what evidence we have, from period sources, about how farthingales were stiffened. *We have the name: verdugado, or "sapling-guard", an indication that they were made of wood (or willow withies, or osiers) and sewn as "guards" onto skirts. *We have pictures of farthingales from late 15th c. spain, that clearly have round hoops fastened to the outside of the skirt at various points along the length of the skirt, covered with fabric. (http://costume.dm.net/farthingale/images/salome.gif) *We have Alcega's pattern for the shape of the skirt, but unfortunately he says nothing about how the willow bents are to be attached to this item. (http://costume.dm.net/images/alcega.gif) *We have written references to farthingales stiffened with bent rope and whalebone in 1560s and 1570s england. Again, no details about how they were sewn on. Also, references to "styffeninge" farthingales, by some unknown method. (starch? adding more bent?) and references to covering bent rope with fabric. All from Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts. *We have a depiction of a "spanish apron", which bears a striking resemblance to a farthingale sliced up the front with padding around the hips. (http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/farthingale/spanishapron.jpg) *We have a picture of a Spanish lady in Morocco wearing a farthingale stiffened with a semi-stiff material, sewn into what looks like tucked channels, dated from 1545. (http://costume.dm.net/farthingale/images/rope-farth1545-sm.gif) *We have various pictures (such as the italian woman aforementioned, the woodcut of Queen Elizabeth out hunting, and others) which could possibly show farthingales worn under skirts...though this isn't certain. (http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/pages/f103R.html), and (http://costume.dm.net/gallery/images/lizpic1.gif) *We have a picture showing the back side of a french woman that reveals the bottom edge of her farthingale underneath her skirt, revealing a hoop along the bottom edge. And that's it, really. All other information that I've found has been interpretations based on the above facts, including Arnold's recreation of the alcega farthingale by sewing separate wood hoops into tucks, and comments by the authors of all other major costume history works. There's really precious little out there. One picture supports the idea that the stiffening material was sewn into tucks; two others support the idea that they were sewn on as separate rings around the skirt, and then covered with fabric. One picture suggests that the rope was applied as a spiral on the outside of the skirt. All 16th c. pics of what we interpret to be farthingales show the stiffening applied in rows much closer than the 5 or 6 rows that most recreated farthingales display. We don't even know much about exactly what was used for stiffening. The name suggests willow osiers, the 1545 picture suggests rope or rag or some non-stiff material, and Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts suggest bent-rope. There's no indication that hoops were sewn on the inner side of the farthingale, or rope sewn on tucks on the inner side of the farthingale. Though given the dearth of evidence, it's entirely possible this was done as well. Just thinking out loud... Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 17:12:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ALCoHP014693 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:12:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ALB40P011180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:11:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ALB2lJ029628; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ALAulJ029478 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:10:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.37.3b5d7ce6 (3932) for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:10:47 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <37.3b5d7ce6.2c3f3057@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:10:47 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/10/2003 4:02:38 PM Central Standard Time, drea@nospam writes: > *We have Alcega's pattern for the shape of the skirt, but unfortunately he > says nothing about how the willow bents are to be attached to this item. > (http://costume.dm.net/images/alcega.gif) > Hey! I was wondering something. Janet arnold says that Alcega's farthingale was so long because of the extra material needed for the tucks....but all of his kirtles are that long...49.5" long (bm). His instructions say nothing about tucks. Wussup wit dat? -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 17:15:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ALFgHP014704 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:15:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ALDw0P011560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:13:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ALDvlJ002090; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:13:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6ALDplJ002029 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:13:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ppp-66-126-75-250.dialup.sndg02.pacbell.net (HELO sbcglobal.net) (lady?m?de?j%sbcglobal.net@66.126.75.250 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 21:13:50 -0000 Message-ID: <3F0DD715.7060202@sbcglobal.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:13:57 -0700 From: Maura Folsom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-CA; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-ca, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Name stuff was Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope References: <200307101801.h6AI1XLG001348@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >Sarra LoreleiMorte@aol.com wrote: > >I am Sarra who is also Sarah but not Sarah. Mundanely, I am Sarah, not >mundanely I am Sarra. See how creative and original I am? I think I should have a >title "No-The-Other-One". > Well, honestly, you aren't alone there! Nealy every time I have had to pick a name for reenacting/interpreting/persona, I have picked ... something beginning with "Ma". Usually with an "r" in it somewhere. Mary, Marie, Marian, Margery, Marguerie. And my real name (the part I like) is Maura. It just makes sense, because I ought to answer to the name I pick, and the one time I didn't, I always did that obvious "Huh? What? Me?" thing when my name was called, so the other interpreters just told the audience I was hard of hearing (when they noticed) and waved at me. :P Now, here's the fun part. In SCA, my name is Marguerie. The herald who helped me document my full name and fill out the paperwork to register it is ... Marguerite. She's also my sister-in-law. No, neither of us caught this when we were researching it. So, now people who are trying to get my attention when both of us are around say "no, the t-less one". Unfortunately, we are often around each other at events ... I have a horrible feeling that it's going to degenerate into "Tee" and "Notee" at some long event. Her kids get around it by calling me Auntie Em. Whee ;) Maura, or maybe that should read "Just call me Em". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 17:28:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ALSTHP014724 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:28:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ALQf0P013070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:26:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ALQalJ012069; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:26:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6ALQVlJ011986 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:26:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 88406 invoked by uid 1005); 10 Jul 2003 21:26:06 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.071721 secs); 10 Jul 2003 21:26:06 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.071721 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 21:26:06 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:26:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope In-Reply-To: <37.3b5d7ce6.2c3f3057@aol.com> Message-ID: <20030710172508.C24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's exactly what I was thinking that got me started on reevaluating farthingale reconstruction...sounds like a problem with drafting up, or some such, rather than extra material designed for tucks. Damn, website rewrite time... Drea On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 LoreleiMorte@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/10/2003 4:02:38 PM Central Standard Time, > drea@nospam writes: > > > *We have Alcega's pattern for the shape of the skirt, but unfortunately he > > says nothing about how the willow bents are to be attached to this item. > > (http://costume.dm.net/images/alcega.gif) > > > > Hey! I was wondering something. Janet arnold says that Alcega's farthingale > was so long because of the extra material needed for the tucks....but all of > his kirtles are that long...49.5" long (bm). His instructions say nothing about > tucks. Wussup wit dat? > > -Sarra Wryght > Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html > Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 17:46:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ALkTHP014757 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:46:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ALih0P015310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:44:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ALidNo026734; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:44:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6ALiaNo026706 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:44:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 28970 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2003 21:44:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail2.inreach.com) (209.142.2.51) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 21:44:35 -0000 Received: from 162.119.64.111 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33832.162.119.64.111.1057873475.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:44:35 -0700 (PDT) From: To: In-Reply-To: <002801c33b27$51a81880$7e8c01d0@castlebooks> References: <002801c33b27$51a81880$7e8c01d0@castlebooks> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.9) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear list, I saw this movie last night (not realizing that it had just opened) and wanted to comment that the costuming wasn't too bad. Of course it isn't a true period movie but the costumes were pretty good and tended to stay within the same period (1770-ish). On the non-costume side, Johnny Depp was fabulous and Orlando Bloom (Legolas from LOTR) was great to watch! He is a good actor and I don't think I will get tired of watching him on screen. The female lead was pretty and a strong woman which was nice to watch as well. It was a fun movie overall. Diana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 18:02:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AM2mHP014799 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:02:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AM100P017231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:01:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AM0vAw008734; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:00:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AM0qAw008599 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:00:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49](untrusted sender)) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <200307102200470160029342e>; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:00:47 +0000 Message-ID: <06da01c3472e$bd58ffa0$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002801c33b27$51a81880$7e8c01d0@castlebooks> <33832.162.119.64.111.1057873475.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:00:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The costumes are already on ebay, the corsets are not too shabby. :) Sincerely, Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 4:44 PM Subject: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean : Dear list, : : I saw this movie last night (not realizing that it had just opened) and : wanted to comment that the costuming wasn't too bad. Of course it isn't a : true period movie but the costumes were pretty good and tended to stay : within the same period (1770-ish). : : On the non-costume side, Johnny Depp was fabulous and Orlando Bloom : (Legolas from LOTR) was great to watch! He is a good actor and I don't : think I will get tired of watching him on screen. The female lead was : pretty and a strong woman which was nice to watch as well. It was a fun : movie overall. : : Diana : : : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 18:47:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AMlNHP014899 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:47:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AMiq0P021924 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:44:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AMimAw014534; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:44:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AMiaAw014277 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:44:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.7b.15237af5 (3932) for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:44:26 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <7b.15237af5.2c3f4649@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:44:25 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 X-DCC-SdV-Metrics: net.indra.com 1179; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/10/2003 4:27:22 PM Central Standard Time, drea@nospam writes: > That's exactly what I was thinking that got me started on > reevaluating farthingale reconstruction...sounds like a problem with > drafting up, or some such, rather than extra material designed for tucks. > > Damn, website rewrite time... > When I was making my first Alcega kirtle, I was like..."daaaaaamn, this is hella long!" I'm 5' 10" and had to hack off a huge amount of length. I saw that the farthingale was the same length and was like "WTF?" ...I feel all disillusioned now :) -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 18:49:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AMnpHP014923 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:49:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AMm70P022290 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:48:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AMm3Aw017018; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:48:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AMk5Aw015578 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:46:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19akAu-0003vB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:46:04 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean-oooh Johnny! Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:46:09 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c34735$0ec97b70$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <33832.162.119.64.111.1057873475.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't follow movies much, but since I saw Chocolate with Johnny Dep I swore I would see him in everything he makes. I saw the trailers for POTC and, well...drooled a little. I think he is hot, hot, hot. I'd jump his bones any day! Sorry Bjarne, Sorry Jeff! :} _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 18:58:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AMw9HP014935 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:58:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AMuW0P023110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:56:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AMuUMS024342; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:56:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6AMuQMS024265 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:56:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-66-127-113-236.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@66.127.113.236 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2003 22:56:25 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:56:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean-oooh Johnny! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <000001c34735$0ec97b70$6401a8c0@SG01> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 03:46 PM, Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > I don't follow movies much, but since I saw Chocolate with Johnny Dep I > swore I would see him in everything he makes. I saw the trailers for > POTC > and, well...drooled a little. I think he is hot, hot, hot. I'd jump > his > bones any day! Sorry Bjarne, Sorry Jeff! :} I hope I'm not the only one out here who fell in love with Johnny Depp during his stint on "21 Jump Street". That show rocked for so many reasons, Depp was the main one. ;) Sarah-not-Sarra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 19:12:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ANCAHP014950 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:12:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AN950P024258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:09:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AN94MS002584; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:09:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AN91MS002559 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 467383694C for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:09:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19akX7-0001HR-00 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:09:01 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope In-Reply-To: <00af01c34722$e26780c0$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> References: <3F0D745F.20208@faucet.net><20030710095627.Y24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> <00af01c34722$e26780c0$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:09:01 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rebecca wrote: >> Oooh, that makes me happy! I'm about to start a corded petticoat, and >> was dreading sewing those channels. Whipstitching, though, *that* I can >> do very happily! Though I think I might sew it to the inside of the >> petticoat rather than the outside. > > I made myself a corded petticoat just recently and used this trick: Use a > double needle, put the cording on the bottom of your fabric and have the > needle straddle it. The bobbin thread zig-zags to keep the cording in place! Um, I was intending to hand stitch it. But I'm sure your method would also work :) K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 19:13:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ANDqHP014953 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:13:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ANCA0P024511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:12:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ANC9MS004517; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:12:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ANAeMS003504 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:10:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from VALINOR ([65.50.96.88]) by fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.comESMTP <20030710231026.QKEM427382.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@VALINOR> for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:10:26 -0400 Message-ID: <00ae01c34738$74b49c00$6401a8c0@VALINOR> From: "Herself-the-Elf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002801c33b27$51a81880$7e8c01d0@castlebooks><33832.162.119.64.111.1057873475.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> <06da01c3472e$bd58ffa0$31baee0c@c59303a> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:10:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [65.50.96.88] using ID at Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:10:25 -0400 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Johnny Depp is quite scrumptialicious as a pirate....but there were a few things that really irritated me. The major one was that the heroine keeps complaining throughout the movie about having to wear corsets as if it's a new thing to her. An upper-class lady like herself would have been wearing corsets for years....it bugged me. Plus her father gives her a new dress from London (they had ready-to-wear back then?) and when he asks about how it fits she's just putting her corset on and commenting that ladies in London must not breathe. I wanted to yell at the screen "he gave you a DRESS, not UNDERWEAR!!!" *sigh* But it still made me want to dress all piratey. ^_^ -- Maral ----- Original Message ----- From: "chiara" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean > The costumes are already on ebay, the corsets are not too shabby. :) > > Sincerely, > Chiara > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 4:44 PM > Subject: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean > > > : Dear list, > : > : I saw this movie last night (not realizing that it had just opened) and > : wanted to comment that the costuming wasn't too bad. Of course it isn't a > : true period movie but the costumes were pretty good and tended to stay > : within the same period (1770-ish). > : > : On the non-costume side, Johnny Depp was fabulous and Orlando Bloom > : (Legolas from LOTR) was great to watch! He is a good actor and I don't > : think I will get tired of watching him on screen. The female lead was > : pretty and a strong woman which was nice to watch as well. It was a fun > : movie overall. > : > : Diana > : > : > : _______________________________________________ > : h-costume mailing list > : h-costume@mail.indra.com > : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 19:18:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ANIlHP014960 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:18:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ANH80P025039 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:17:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ANH6MS007890; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:17:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ANH3MS007838 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:17:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A32F736974 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:17:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19akes-0001JO-00 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:17:02 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope In-Reply-To: <20030710162150.K24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> References: <20030710162150.K24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:17:02 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drea wrote: > True. One thing, though--it can be demmed uncomfortable trying to sit in > a petticoat corded on the inside, depending on the size of the cording. :) My cord is 6mm hemp. I was planning on only cording up to about knee height, at about 2" separation between bands. > *We have written references to farthingales stiffened with bent rope and > whalebone in 1560s and 1570s england. Again, no details about how they > were sewn on. Also, references to "styffeninge" farthingales, by some > unknown method. (starch? adding more bent?) and references to covering > bent rope with fabric. All from Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts. Hrm, no written references to hempen cord, though. Though the Italian woman definitely *looks* like hers is using normal rope. > We don't even know much about exactly what was used for stiffening. The > name suggests willow osiers, the 1545 picture suggests rope or rag or some > non-stiff material, and Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts suggest bent-rope. > There's no indication that hoops were sewn on the inner side of the > farthingale, or rope sewn on tucks on the inner side of the farthingale. > Though given the dearth of evidence, it's entirely possible this was done > as well. Hrm, perhaps I would consider doing my hemp on the outside (as seems more accurate) if I dye it and the fabric to match. I think brown hemp on white or undyed brownish linen would look dorky, but if both were red or something it would be pretty cool. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 19:21:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ANLpHP014977 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:21:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ANKD0P025343 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:20:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ANKDMS009951; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:20:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ANJMMS009435 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:19:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 995F136974 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:19:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19akh6-0001JW-00 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:19:20 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean In-Reply-To: <33832.162.119.64.111.1057873475.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> References: <002801c33b27$51a81880$7e8c01d0@castlebooks> <33832.162.119.64.111.1057873475.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:19:20 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Diana wrote: > I saw this movie last night (not realizing that it had just opened) and > wanted to comment that the costuming wasn't too bad. Of course it isn't a > true period movie but the costumes were pretty good and tended to stay > within the same period (1770-ish). I thought that the purplish gown that Barbosa gave to Elizabeth to wear looked like a much earlier period... mid-17th century? ... but I wasn't sure. But yes, most of the costumes were pretty well done, I thought. > It was a fun > movie overall. I loved it. Depp was amazing, in particular. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 20:00:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B00THP015067 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:00:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ANwH0P028471 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:58:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ANwGVU002497; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:58:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f82.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ANwDVU002426 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:58:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:58:08 -0700 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 23:58:07 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 23:58:07 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jul 2003 23:58:08.0221 (UTC) FILETIME=[1C7160D0:01C3473F] Subject: [h-cost] Re: OT:Pirates of the Caribbean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OH, I have to jump on the OT bandwagon!!! I haven't seen the movie yet. I tried last night, but didn't want to see an 11 o'clock showing so will try again later. I want to say that I fell for Johnny in his 21 Jump Street days. I was just a little kid, but I knew a good thing when I saw it!!! :) Ever since, I've been a huge fan. I also want to add that ever time I saw the preview for this movie I would start yelling at the screen about how corsets are not painful. I would make this huge scene making sure that everyone I was with knew that that lady is just a wimp and it is this terrible myth that I have a personal vindetta against. Anyway... can't wait to drool... I mean *see* the movie!!! :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 20:38:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B0cvHP015151 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:38:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B0bF0P001711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:37:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B0bEVU023460; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:37:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B0bBVU023426 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:37:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip35.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.35]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0251C70205 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:37:10 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:36:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bodice From tailors book Message-ID: <3F0DA436.23791.1ACD204D@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3F0D9172.7020905@kabelfoon.nl> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I scaled the bodice pattern f.60 Page 45 Tailor's Pattern Book 1589 > Juan de Alcega up until it fitted me. I didn't make any other > alterations to the pattern. The cut of the straps look a bit strange > on the pattern but are quite comfortable. I was supprised how wel it > fits. I could use a little more room at my waist and maby a little les > at the top. I wonder how the actual dress would have looked like. The > pattern say's Kirtle and low cut bodice of cloth rash for a woman. > Does this mean that was the bodice of a kirtle or that it were two > different items? By this time kirtle referred only to the skirt, not a skirt and bodice combination. So, this refers to two items: a skirt and separate bodice. >The point in front is long and pointy, from wich time > would this bodice have been? Alcega is from 1589 (or thereabouts, with 1589 being the main date given for the book.) So the bodice would be 1589 or thereabouts if you used the same depth of point as the one in Alcega. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 20:57:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B0vVHP015181 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:57:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B0th0P003169 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:55:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B0tfmJ002425; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:55:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B0temJ002419 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:55:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-005-220.jps.net ([216.119.5.220] helo=pavilion) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19amCJ-0005lY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:55:39 -0700 Message-ID: <003901c34749$682a6760$dc0577d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030710162150.K24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:11:48 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ummm.....hemp rope has little stray ends that poke out of the channels through the fabric and is uncomfortable and itchy. Tried this once and decided that wrapping the rope in fabric a couple of times before inserting into channels might be wise. Cutting off wild bits before wrapping in fabric is also recommended. Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirrily Robert" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope > Drea wrote: > > True. One thing, though--it can be demmed uncomfortable trying to sit in > > a petticoat corded on the inside, depending on the size of the cording. :) > > My cord is 6mm hemp. I was planning on only cording up to about knee > height, at about 2" separation between bands. > > > *We have written references to farthingales stiffened with bent rope and > > whalebone in 1560s and 1570s england. Again, no details about how they > > were sewn on. Also, references to "styffeninge" farthingales, by some > > unknown method. (starch? adding more bent?) and references to covering > > bent rope with fabric. All from Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts. > > Hrm, no written references to hempen cord, though. Though the Italian > woman definitely *looks* like hers is using normal rope. > > > We don't even know much about exactly what was used for stiffening. The > > name suggests willow osiers, the 1545 picture suggests rope or rag or some > > non-stiff material, and Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts suggest bent-rope. > > There's no indication that hoops were sewn on the inner side of the > > farthingale, or rope sewn on tucks on the inner side of the farthingale. > > Though given the dearth of evidence, it's entirely possible this was done > > as well. > > Hrm, perhaps I would consider doing my hemp on the outside (as seems > more accurate) if I dye it and the fabric to match. I think brown hemp > on white or undyed brownish linen would look dorky, but if both were red > or something it would be pretty cool. > > K. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 21:18:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1IjHP015233 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:18:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1Gq0P004972 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:16:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1GomJ012582; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:16:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1GmmJ012572 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:16:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip35.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.35]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 834F96FE0D for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:16:46 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:16:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Message-ID: <3F0DAD91.5091.1AF1ADC9@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <1D4B7F12.6B2523CB.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I > talked to the entrant later about other construction techniques and > the entrant agreed the frenching (unneccessary for this fabric) caused > the problems with the gore. Someone had told the entrant that it was > proper to french those seams and if she did not she would lose points. Did they show the person any documentation that frenching was period to begin with? I haven't found documentation for it until quite a bit past the usual "pre17thC" period. I've found felled seams, mock felled seams, overcast edges (which to me can take the place of "serging") and the like, but I've never found french seams. > *I* have also had people ask me "how did you finish that seam" - my > reply is usually, "I ironed it flat" and occasionally, "I ironed it > flat and fulled" The last time, the asker replied with a disappointed > "Oh. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk." I haven't had any problem with the unfinished > seams of linen shirts raveling...or wool dresses. I've found a lot of problems with linen ravelling like crazy. In fact, I know some people who won't make things with linen because they say that they hate the way it ravels and can't afford a serger. In terms of wool, it depends on how well fulled it is. Fulling it sufficiently *is* a form of seam finish. > Certainly, there are instances that you'd want to finish a seam - if > there's high stress, if you're using old or fine silk, etc...but WOOL > on a non-stressed seam? And, if you must finish the seam, why not do > it in a more documentable way? Is this a "serger mentality"? I don't think it's "serger mentality" since most of the people I hear about it the most from don't even use sergers. I think it is just misinformation. They hear that seams should be appropriately finished, remember the French Seams that someone taught them, and think that that's "appropriate". What they need is *appropriate" information about *appropriate* seam finishing techniques. If I had to finish the seams on a dress with gores, I think that I'd probably use a mock fell. More documentable to more time periods (from early Viking through 14th C through 16th C and on to "early modern" times.) And it's not so bulky! (It's especially helpful for keeping those awful little points at the top of gores from fraying out. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 21:19:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1JTHP015238 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:19:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1Hp0P005032 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:17:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1HpmJ013119; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:17:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1HmmJ013100 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:17:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-171.75.228.181.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.228.181] helo=Dan) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19amXj-0002ky-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:17:47 -0400 Message-ID: <00f901c3474a$70f719a0$b5e44bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: <03A5C64C.21952046.E9DE60AC@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redneck fabric stores and men Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:19:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bad, bad Ramona. Go stand in the corner now. Genie ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 8:33 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redneck fabric stores and men > Fabric with tractors on it? You could do a historical interpretation of a WWII-era dress. Picture this: a woman writing to her boyfriend overseas, saying she's breaking off the engagement to stay home & work on the farm--a John Deere letter. Dear John, get it? > > Ramona > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 21:20:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1KAHP015241 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:20:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1IS0P005083 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:18:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1ISmJ013396; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:18:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1IOmJ013338 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:18:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bently (dialport33.tukwila.eskimo.net [208.187.159.225]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA19662 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:18:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008a01c3474a$74c00880$0200a8c0@bently> From: "David" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030709215542.25082.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> <3F0CCA44.4030705@grics.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redneck fabric stores and men Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:04:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Where i live you can't find gingham (I like the 1" for mockups) Omigosh! You're a genius, and for the life of me, I can't think why I didn't think of it myself, earlier. Back to the Joann's from hell, to check out 1" gingham! Pam Dotson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 21:26:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1Q8HP015250 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:26:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1OW0P005558 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:24:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1OVmJ016330; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:24:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1OSmJ016294 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:24:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE8E3369B3 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:24:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19ame0-0001QS-00 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:24:16 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean In-Reply-To: <00ae01c34738$74b49c00$6401a8c0@VALINOR> References: <002801c33b27$51a81880$7e8c01d0@castlebooks><33832.162.119.64.111.1057873475.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> <06da01c3472e$bd58ffa0$31baee0c@c59303a> <00ae01c34738$74b49c00$6401a8c0@VALINOR> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:24:16 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well if we're going to be like *that*, I'd like to mention that 18th century pistols don't fire very reliably (that's what we call understatement) after 10 years of being carried around loaded, soaked in seawater, etc. Also, granny smith apples are a 19th century variety originating in Tasmania. But then, I'm a great big nerd when it comes to picking holes in the historical aspects of films. I still think the movie was great. But (ob-Costume) do you think Will's costume in the final scene was kinda "three musketeers"? I did. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 21:26:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1QZHP015253 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:26:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1Ou0P005623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:24:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1OtmJ016526; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:24:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1OrmJ016471 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:24:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49](untrusted sender)) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2003071101244701600aickie>; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:24:47 +0000 Message-ID: <080f01c3474b$3d3998d0$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F0DAD91.5091.1AF1ADC9@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:24:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Then I guess the question then I have is this: What is the seam finish and dates with them do we have? hand pressed: hand pressed and whipped stitched: frenched: flat felled: mock flat felled: pinked: hemmed: sergred: Others: Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish : : > I : > talked to the entrant later about other construction techniques and : > the entrant agreed the frenching (unneccessary for this fabric) caused : > the problems with the gore. Someone had told the entrant that it was : > proper to french those seams and if she did not she would lose points. : : Did they show the person any documentation that frenching was period : to begin with? I haven't found documentation for it until quite a bit : past the usual "pre17thC" period. I've found felled seams, mock : felled seams, overcast edges (which to me can take the place of : "serging") and the like, but I've never found french seams. : : > *I* have also had people ask me "how did you finish that seam" - my : > reply is usually, "I ironed it flat" and occasionally, "I ironed it : > flat and fulled" The last time, the asker replied with a disappointed : > "Oh. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk." I haven't had any problem with the unfinished : > seams of linen shirts raveling...or wool dresses. : : I've found a lot of problems with linen ravelling like crazy. In : fact, I know some people who won't make things with linen because : they say that they hate the way it ravels and can't afford a serger. : : In terms of wool, it depends on how well fulled it is. Fulling it : sufficiently *is* a form of seam finish. : : > Certainly, there are instances that you'd want to finish a seam - if : > there's high stress, if you're using old or fine silk, etc...but WOOL : > on a non-stressed seam? And, if you must finish the seam, why not do : > it in a more documentable way? Is this a "serger mentality"? : : I don't think it's "serger mentality" since most of the people I hear : about it the most from don't even use sergers. : : I think it is just misinformation. They hear that seams should be : appropriately finished, remember the French Seams that someone taught : them, and think that that's "appropriate". What they need is : *appropriate" information about *appropriate* seam finishing : techniques. : : If I had to finish the seams on a dress with gores, I think that I'd : probably use a mock fell. More documentable to more time periods : (from early Viking through 14th C through 16th C and on to "early : modern" times.) And it's not so bulky! (It's especially helpful for : keeping those awful little points at the top of gores from fraying : out. : : Kat : : : : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 21:27:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1RhHP015256 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:27:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1Q80P005749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:26:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1Q8mJ017108; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:26:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B1Q6mJ017080 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:26:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5D9E36979 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:26:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19amfl-0001Qm-00 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:26:05 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope In-Reply-To: <003901c34749$682a6760$dc0577d8@pavilion> References: <20030710162150.K24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> <003901c34749$682a6760$dc0577d8@pavilion> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:26:05 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa wrote: > ummm.....hemp rope has little stray ends that poke out of the channels > through the fabric and is uncomfortable and itchy. Tried this once and > decided that wrapping the rope in fabric a couple of times before inserting > into channels might be wise. Cutting off wild bits before wrapping in > fabric is also recommended. Mine's not too scratchy, and I was also planning on putting it through the washing machine to bang it up a bit and pre-shrink it... since if I want the farthingale to be washable, I don't want the rope to shrink more than the cloth. Also, if I sew the hemp to the outside of the farthingale, it'll have the farthingale, and my long smock, and my long stockings to get through before it can poke at me. I think it'll be fine. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 22:05:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B25pHP015325 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:05:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B23H0P008911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:03:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B23Gvh004740; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:03:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt23.cluster1.charter.net (remt23.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B23Cvh004697 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:03:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [68.185.167.6] (HELO laptop) by remt23.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with SMTP id 88954615 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:03:07 -0400 Message-ID: <00ee01c34750$87fd8340$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F0D745F.20208@faucet.net><20030710095627.Y24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> <00af01c34722$e26780c0$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:02:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Um, I was intending to hand stitch it. But I'm sure your method would > also work :) > > K. You obviously have a lot more time than I do - I have too many other projects to sit and stitch anything by hand! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 22:15:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2FCHP015354 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:15:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2DV0P009732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:13:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2DUvh009439; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:13:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2DSvi009412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:13:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (acty2004.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.243.4]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h6B2DVeg011031 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:13:32 -0400 Message-ID: <3F0E1C62.2010500@dandy.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:09:38 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: splicing, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? References: <20030710085730.J24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. Do you wet the reeds or steam them first to make them pliable? A good example of the binding of the hoops on containers is seen in the foreground of Vincenzo Campi's The Fruit Seller ca 1580. The container of grapes has hoops that are bound with willow or vine (?). Cheers, Mike T. Drea Leed wrote: >The reeds are pretty bulky; 20 of them create a 5/8 inch diameter cord. >I'm going to try hand-twisting some into a two strand rope once I've >finished with this method, to see what sort of differences I find between >the two methods. > >Thanks, > >Drea > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 22:42:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2gRHP015557 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:42:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2ei0P011869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:40:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2egvh021845; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:40:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2ecvh021779 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:40:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net (146.newark-05rh15rt.nj.dial-access.att.net[12.89.168.146]) by mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <2003071102403211100rrklfe>; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:40:32 +0000 Message-ID: <3F0E239F.8000209@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:40:31 -0400 From: Justine Magill User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redneck fabric stores and men References: <20030709215542.25082.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> <3F0CCA44.4030705@grics.net> <008a01c3474a$74c00880$0200a8c0@bently> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It certainly helped fitting a couple of cottes, 1 for myself fitted by Marcelle, and one that I fitted using what I learned from Marcelle. It made it absurdly simple to keep the fitting on grain. Just make sure you get the woven type of gingham, not printed. Jenne >Omigosh! You're a genius, and for the life of me, I can't think why I >didn't think of it myself, earlier. Back to the Joann's from hell, to >check out 1" gingham! > >Pam Dotson > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 22:43:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2hKHP015574 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:43:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2fi0P011929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:41:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2fivh022314; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:41:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2ffvi022297 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:41:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (acty2004.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.243.4]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h6B2fjeg020211 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:41:45 -0400 Message-ID: <3F0E22F9.1010608@dandy.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:37:45 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean References: <002801c33b27$51a81880$7e8c01d0@castlebooks> <33832.162.119.64.111.1057873475.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. Haven't seen the movie (and won't, 'cause I don't like Disney or their politics), but the trailers are everywhere, and the hype is tremendous. From what I have seen, though, the military uniforms appear later in period than the "pirates". Depp appears to be wearing a coat from the "Golden Age of Piracy", usually considered to be 1690-1730, but I'm sure that accuracy was a piddling consideration compared to the "look" that they were trying to get. Just a question, though. Besides Howard Pyle and his ilk, does anyone know of any real historically documented evidence that any "pirates" were wearing the "bucket top boot" style of footwear? I have never seen a picture of any people reported to be pirates wearing other than shoes of the period, or bare feet. I don't believe anyone on the seas would bother wearing what was predominantly a horseman's form of footwear (spurs or not). Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 22:46:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2kpHP015608 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:46:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2jE0P012176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:45:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2jDvh023958; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:45:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2jBvi023940 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:45:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (acty2004.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.243.4]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h6B2jEeg012542 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:45:15 -0400 Message-ID: <3F0E23CA.3040208@dandy.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:41:14 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean References: <002801c33b27$51a81880$7e8c01d0@castlebooks> <33832.162.119.64.111.1057873475.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> <06da01c3472e$bd58ffa0$31baee0c@c59303a> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. Of course, as if to contradict all of the evidence presented by the many women on this list, as well as others, one of the ads for the movie presented the female lead stating "Oh, you like pain, do you? Try wearing a corset." Is there a little character for a sneer on my keyboard? Mike T. chiara wrote: >The costumes are already on ebay, the corsets are not too shabby. :) > >Sincerely, >Chiara > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 22:52:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2quHP015742 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:52:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2pK0P013096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:51:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2pJvh028528; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:51:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2pGvh028492 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:51:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18834 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:15:59 -0500 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:15:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redneck fabric stores and men In-Reply-To: <3F0E239F.8000209@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Justine Magill wrote: > It certainly helped fitting a couple of cottes, 1 for myself fitted by > Marcelle, and one that I fitted using what I learned from Marcelle. It > made it absurdly simple to keep the fitting on grain. Just make sure > you get the woven type of gingham, not printed. I think it was fabric-store.com that used to have, and maybe still has, linen woven with a gingham-like pattern that would have made a good grid. You'd want to do your fittings in linen if possible; it behaves differently from cotton. So it would be ideal to have a gridded linen rather than use cotton gingham. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 22:56:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2uAHP015751 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:56:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2sM0P013352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:54:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2sLvh000206; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:54:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2sHvh000144 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:54:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-164-238-205.s205.tnt4.frdb.va.dialup.rcn.com ([216.164.238.205] helo=ashley) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 19ao36-0001Cr-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:54:17 -0400 From: "Ashley Wells" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: THANK YOU - RE: [h-cost] Re: US Airline restrictions - sewing stuff(?) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:54:03 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c34757$b3c33ef0$cdeea4d8@ashley> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <46C0888F.5DBC7C04.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Could be worse - I was in the middle of a business trip when Desert Storm was launched in 1991 - they weren't looking for "sharp objects," but they WERE going bonkers looking for "suspicious items" that could "conceal terrorist devices" (i.e., explosives) - all at the local airport security worker's discretion (translation: imagination). I still remember having to not only dump the contents of my cosmetics pouch at 56 a.m. in Cincinnati, and not only tell the security screener that the suspect item was a tube of lipstick/mascara/lipliner/whatever, but actually open and demonstrate each and every item in the %*&&@) bag! I must have delayed that flight by at least 15 minutes, single-handedly.... Regards, Ashley -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of ConstanceFairfax@cs.com Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 3:07 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: THANK YOU - RE: [h-cost] Re: US Airline restrictions - sewing stuff(?) Thank you everyone for your help - I'm a bit hypersensitive as I once unknowingly had a leatherman tool (a swiss army knife on steroids) in one of the many pockets of an overnight case - I got chewed out, and that was well before 9/11. >Sigh... there's a website... I'm just moaning 'cause it's the 5th or 6th >time I've posted it somewhere or other. Sorry for the trouble- I did look on the internet before I posted my request but found very conflicting information. Constance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 22:57:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2vlHP015756 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:57:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2u40P013562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:56:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B2u4vx001146; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:56:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6B2tnvx001007 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:55:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 53970 invoked by uid 1005); 11 Jul 2003 02:55:48 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.244816 secs); 11 Jul 2003 02:55:48 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.244816 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 2003 02:55:47 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:55:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030710224631.S38339-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You could try covering it with a strip of fabric. The way I'm doing mine is, I'm stitching a narrow strip of fabric in a spiral up the skirt, from hem to top. then I'm hand-whip-stitching the bent rope over the fabric seam allowance, then folding the fabric over the rope and hand-stitching it down. Rope's coming along great, by the way! 15 yards made so far, 15 to go. The more I handle it, the more I think this is the ultimate farthingale boning material--made of period materials, stiffer along it's length than hemp rope so it won't kink, much lighter than hemp rope (the 15 yards of 5/8" diameter rope weighs in at less than a pound), and incredibly strong yet very flexible. I can almost bend it entirely back on itself, without anything snapping. With stiffening like bent rope sewn on the outside, I'll bet the farthingale material itself can be much lighter, since it doesn't have to be sturdy enough to hold the boning material stiched inside tucks. The fabric would act more as a shaped base to keep the spiral of bent rope in place, rather than the rope working to "hold out" the skirt to the proper location. Happy happy, Drea On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Kirrily Robert wrote: > Drea wrote: > > True. One thing, though--it can be demmed uncomfortable trying to sit in > > a petticoat corded on the inside, depending on the size of the cording. :) > > My cord is 6mm hemp. I was planning on only cording up to about knee > height, at about 2" separation between bands. > > > *We have written references to farthingales stiffened with bent rope and > > whalebone in 1560s and 1570s england. Again, no details about how they > > were sewn on. Also, references to "styffeninge" farthingales, by some > > unknown method. (starch? adding more bent?) and references to covering > > bent rope with fabric. All from Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts. > > Hrm, no written references to hempen cord, though. Though the Italian > woman definitely *looks* like hers is using normal rope. > > > We don't even know much about exactly what was used for stiffening. The > > name suggests willow osiers, the 1545 picture suggests rope or rag or some > > non-stiff material, and Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts suggest bent-rope. > > There's no indication that hoops were sewn on the inner side of the > > farthingale, or rope sewn on tucks on the inner side of the farthingale. > > Though given the dearth of evidence, it's entirely possible this was done > > as well. > > Hrm, perhaps I would consider doing my hemp on the outside (as seems > more accurate) if I dye it and the fabric to match. I think brown hemp > on white or undyed brownish linen would look dorky, but if both were red > or something it would be pretty cool. > > K. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 23:17:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B3HvHP015789 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 23:17:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B3GD0P015138 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:16:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B3GCvx011185; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:16:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B3G9vx011079 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:16:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1d0.d7f9e3a (15865) for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 23:15:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-d15.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.131]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v94.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID64-3df93f0e2bee216; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 23:15:58 -0400 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 23:15:58 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <51D1F599.7DE0720F.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Did they show the person any documentation that frenching was period >to begin with? Nope. I think it's just a well-wishing person w/ that "back of the embroidery has to be as neat as the front" theory - that it must transfer over into clothing construction - the neater the better, and the better, the more accurate, right? :) There's always *someone* whose opinion is more valued than documentation - I always listened to everything you had to say when I lived in OR & only wish I'd been able to hear more! I haven't found documentation for it until quite a bit >past the usual "pre17thC" period. I've found felled seams, mock >felled seams, overcast edges (which to me can take the place of >"serging") and the like, but I've never found french seams. Nope. Me neither. I think they look odd, too. Plus, french seams don't (IMHO) add any strength to the seam itself, as opposed to felled seams... >I've found a lot of problems with linen ravelling like crazy. In >fact, I know some people who won't make things with linen because >they say that they hate the way it ravels and can't afford a serger. Wow. I have a serger & the only time my seams pull is when I use it. :) It's been gathering dust, but I pull it out once in a while. When I machine-stitch, it's a plain-old straight stitch. >If I had to finish the seams on a dress with gores, I think that I'd >probably use a mock fell. More documentable to more time periods >(from early Viking through 14th C through 16th C and on to "early >modern" times.) And it's not so bulky! (It's especially helpful for >keeping those awful little points at the top of gores from fraying >out. Yep. I think the best gift to get any aspiring costumer is crowfoot, even if it's not their period. I often refer to it, and I'm doing 16c Brussels. :) Constance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 23:31:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B3VxHP015808 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 23:31:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B3UJ0P016346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:30:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B3UIvx018292; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:30:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B3UFvx018237 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:30:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-237-231.client.attbi.com[12.246.237.231](untrusted sender)) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003071103301001100frrcae>; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 03:30:10 +0000 Message-ID: <3F0E2F42.8090101@fenris.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:30:10 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope References: <20030710162150.K24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> <003901c34749$682a6760$dc0577d8@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <003901c34749$682a6760$dc0577d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa Sinervo wrote: >ummm.....hemp rope has little stray ends that poke out of the channels >through the fabric and is uncomfortable and itchy. Tried this once and >decided that wrapping the rope in fabric a couple of times before inserting >into channels might be wise. Cutting off wild bits before wrapping in >fabric is also recommended. > > > One can also singe the 'hair' off rope, use a bic lighter or something. Mind your fingers! liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 10 23:39:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B3dkHP015814 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 23:39:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B3c10P016998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B3c0vx022049; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:38:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B3bvvx021987 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:37:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-237-231.client.attbi.com[12.246.237.231](untrusted sender)) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003071103375101100ilht4e>; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 03:37:52 +0000 Message-ID: <3F0E3114.7090709@fenris.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:37:56 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redneck fabric stores and men References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: >On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Justine Magill wrote: > > > >>It certainly helped fitting a couple of cottes, 1 for myself fitted by >>Marcelle, and one that I fitted using what I learned from Marcelle. It >>made it absurdly simple to keep the fitting on grain. Just make sure >>you get the woven type of gingham, not printed. >> >> > >I think it was fabric-store.com that used to have, and maybe still has, >linen woven with a gingham-like pattern that would have made a good grid. > > > And I have some (not enough for fitting a GFD) *smirk* I've seen it in black and purple check and a green and lavender check. liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 00:18:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B4IjHP015864 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:18:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B4Fl0P020459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:15:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B4Fjou012004; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:15:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B4Feou011909 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:15:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a236.in-tch.com [66.62.107.36]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6B3uUc25705 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:56:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F0E3A53.B6BAD73E@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:17:23 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: THANK YOU - RE: [h-cost] Re: US Airline restrictions - sewingstuff(?) References: <000001c34757$b3c33ef0$cdeea4d8@ashley> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. I'm slogging through a lot of emails that backed up while my ISP was having server meltdowns, plus I'm missing some emails, so pardon if I've missed the point of this thread, or am duplicating someone's comment. I traveled to England and Ireland last summer, and what I did was check restrictions with my airline, and also check the restrictions for the various airports (Salt Lake City, Atlanta, and London). They were mostly concerned about sharp, pointy, cutty things. So, my embroidery scissors were packed into my checked luggage, and I took pre-cut lengths of silk floss on the plane with me (my interminable project is blackworked stripes on a linen camicia). I packed needles in with my scissors, and also took a few on the plane with me. I had no problems whatsoever (and, mind you, I was traveling around the anniversary of 9-11, so security was exquisitely tight). The needles I had with me were simply tucked right into the fabric contained in the embroidery hoop--it was quite obvious what they were for, and no one said a thing. I asked someone, at one point, and they said it helped to know (through physical proximity) what the intended use was. So maybe hiding things isn't the best idea.... The embroidery helped keep me busy (gawd, but that's a long flight!), and proved a *great* conversation piece--I had an aisle seat near a bathroom coming back, and there was lots of foot traffic. Not only was it really nice to talk handcrafts with a bunch of different people, but also a good opportunity to spread a bit of knowledge about an uncommon embroidery style! --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 00:56:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B4ubHP015918 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:56:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B4sl0P024459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:54:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B4skou001947; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:54:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B4shou001906 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:54:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-16-15.o1.jps.net ([216.119.16.15] helo=pavilion) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19apvd-0002iy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:54:42 -0700 Message-ID: <002901c3476a$cd704ba0$0f1077d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030710162150.K24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:10:51 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's another image I recently ran across ........ http://www.threadneedlest.com/Bulletinboard.htm French 1567 according to Dress and Undress, Ahistory of Women's Underware. Elizabeth Ewing Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drea Leed" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope > > > Oooh, that makes me happy! I'm about to start a corded petticoat, and > > was dreading sewing those channels. Whipstitching, though, *that* I can > > do very happily! Though I think I might sew it to the inside of the > > petticoat rather than the outside. > > True. One thing, though--it can be demmed uncomfortable trying to sit in > a petticoat corded on the inside, depending on the size of the cording. :) > > I'm looking forward to seeing how the bands of contrasting color look on > the outside, once I'm done. > > Let me know how yours works...we can compare. > > I've been thinking about exactly what evidence we have, from period > sources, about how farthingales were stiffened. > > *We have the name: verdugado, or "sapling-guard", an indication that > they were made of wood (or willow withies, or osiers) and sewn as "guards" > onto skirts. > > *We have pictures of farthingales from late 15th c. spain, that clearly > have round hoops fastened to the outside of the skirt at various points > along the length of the skirt, covered with fabric. > (http://costume.dm.net/farthingale/images/salome.gif) > > *We have Alcega's pattern for the shape of the skirt, but unfortunately he > says nothing about how the willow bents are to be attached to this item. > (http://costume.dm.net/images/alcega.gif) > > *We have written references to farthingales stiffened with bent rope and > whalebone in 1560s and 1570s england. Again, no details about how they > were sewn on. Also, references to "styffeninge" farthingales, by some > unknown method. (starch? adding more bent?) and references to covering > bent rope with fabric. All from Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts. > > *We have a depiction of a "spanish apron", which bears a striking > resemblance to a farthingale sliced up the front with padding around the > hips. (http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/farthingale/spanishapron.jpg) > > *We have a picture of a Spanish lady in Morocco wearing > a farthingale stiffened with a semi-stiff material, sewn into what looks > like tucked channels, dated from 1545. > (http://costume.dm.net/farthingale/images/rope-farth1545-sm.gif) > > *We have various pictures (such as the italian woman aforementioned, the > woodcut of Queen Elizabeth out hunting, and others) which could possibly > show farthingales worn under skirts...though this isn't certain. > (http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/pages/f103R.html), and > (http://costume.dm.net/gallery/images/lizpic1.gif) > > *We have a picture showing the back side of a french woman that reveals > the bottom edge of her farthingale underneath her skirt, revealing a hoop > along the bottom edge. > > And that's it, really. All other information that I've found has been > interpretations based on the above facts, including Arnold's recreation of > the alcega farthingale by sewing separate wood hoops into tucks, and > comments by the authors of all other major costume history works. > > There's really precious little out there. One picture supports the > idea that the stiffening material was sewn into tucks; two others > support the idea that they were sewn on as separate rings around the > skirt, and then covered with fabric. One picture suggests that the > rope was applied as a spiral on the outside of the skirt. All 16th c. pics > of what we interpret to be farthingales show the stiffening applied in > rows much closer than the 5 or 6 rows that most recreated farthingales display. > > We don't even know much about exactly what was used for stiffening. The > name suggests willow osiers, the 1545 picture suggests rope or rag or some > non-stiff material, and Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts suggest bent-rope. > There's no indication that hoops were sewn on the inner side of the > farthingale, or rope sewn on tucks on the inner side of the farthingale. > Though given the dearth of evidence, it's entirely possible this was done > as well. > > Just thinking out loud... > > Drea > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 02:17:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B6H1HP022262 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:17:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B6Eh0P029958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:14:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B6EgSQ010121; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:14:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B6EdSQ010094 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:14:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem-1509.lemur.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.135.133.229] helo=lance5) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.14) id 19arAz-0003Az-Rk for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:14:38 +0100 From: "Freyalyn Close-Hainsworth" To: Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:18:39 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200307102321.h6ANKQMV010066@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] RE: Pirates of the Caribbean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This isn't fair. This doesn't open in the UK until 8th August. How can I wait for Johnny and Orlando??? But this just underlines the general impression that all media want to give of any costume that isn't modern - that it's uncomfortable. People lived and worked in their clothes - if it wasn't comfortable, they couldn't. Freyalyn the Fluff Fiend "If you're gonna ask someone to save the world, make sure they like it the way it is". (XC, 2002) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 03:37:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B7bPHP020617 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 03:37:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B7Zg0P005160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:35:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B7ZcWS015137; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:35:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41508.mail.yahoo.com (web41508.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6B7ZSWS015040 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:35:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030711073523.4418.qmail@web41508.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41508.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:35:23 BST Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:35:23 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F0E22F9.1010608@dandy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DCC-SdV-Metrics: net.indra.com 1179; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Frankly, for once I don't care what the two male leads' costumes look like, though it should be right in my area of expertise, I'll just shut off the authenticity-gene and DROOL over the two sexy boys/men. *laughs* Nicole - in 'dirty old woman' mode ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 03:50:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B7oCHP026502 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 03:50:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B7mK0P005949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:48:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B7mJWS020419; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:48:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41509.mail.yahoo.com (web41509.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6B7mIWS020371 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:48:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030711074813.54483.qmail@web41509.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41509.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:48:13 BST Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:48:13 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <00ae01c34738$74b49c00$6401a8c0@VALINOR> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Herself-the-Elf wrote: > > corsets for years....it bugged me. Plus her father gives her a new dress > from London (they had ready-to-wear back then?) Shockingly enough, yes they did, to a certain extend, already in the second half of the 17th century,and it started in the first half, though by then only with smaller items and accessories. I have just read through quite a few specialist late 17th c & 18th c studies in historical economics, and I was astonished to see that 'almost ready-made' clothing was available, certainly if he ordered it from a tailor, the customer wouldn't necessarily have to be there. Not quite what we understand of 'ready made clothing', granted, but not entirely untrue. Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 03:54:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B7saHP029547 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 03:54:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B7qv0P006173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:52:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B7qvWS022163; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:52:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41509.mail.yahoo.com (web41509.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6B7qrWS022075 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:52:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030711075248.55147.qmail@web41509.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41509.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:52:48 BST Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:52:48 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean-oooh Johnny! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000001c34735$0ec97b70$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- "Saragrace T. Knauf" wrote: > I don't follow movies much, but since I saw Chocolate with Johnny Dep I > swore I would see him in everything he makes. I saw the trailers for POTC > and, well...drooled a little. I think he is hot, hot, hot. I'd jump his > bones any day! Sorry Bjarne, Sorry Jeff! :} *just nods gravely and with a manic glint in her eyes* Ever since I saw him in Don Juan di Marco I fell for his dark eyes, dark hair and boy those cheekbones are to die for! Costume content? Nahhhh.... Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 04:06:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B86mHP032659 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 04:06:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B85B0P006808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:05:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B85AI6027334; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:05:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B857I6027307 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:05:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-38-132.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.38.132]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6B855Db016573 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:05:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030711010416.0548a7b0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:04:52 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean In-Reply-To: <06da01c3472e$bd58ffa0$31baee0c@c59303a> References: <002801c33b27$51a81880$7e8c01d0@castlebooks> <33832.162.119.64.111.1057873475.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >The costumes are already on ebay, the corsets are not too shabby. :) ...except that it ripped right off Elizabeth when they tugged on it. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 04:59:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B8xRHP019921 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 04:59:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B8vd0P009947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:57:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B8vbQl019727; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:57:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6B8vYQl019658 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:57:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 13792 invoked by uid 65534); 11 Jul 2003 08:57:27 -0000 Received: from p50801480.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.2.21]) (80.128.20.128) by mail.gmx.net (mp027) with SMTP; 11 Jul 2003 10:57:27 +0200 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:57:26 +0200 Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope From: Cassandra Greer To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <002901c3476a$cd704ba0$0f1077d8@pavilion> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmmm is that a 'low' neckline or a doublet she's wearing for her bodice? Cass :) > Here's another image I recently ran across ........ > http://www.threadneedlest.com/Bulletinboard.htm French 1567 according to > Dress and Undress, Ahistory of Women's Underware. Elizabeth Ewing > > Lisa > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Drea Leed" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 2:01 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope > > >> >>> Oooh, that makes me happy! I'm about to start a corded petticoat, and >>> was dreading sewing those channels. Whipstitching, though, *that* I can >>> do very happily! Though I think I might sew it to the inside of the >>> petticoat rather than the outside. >> >> True. One thing, though--it can be demmed uncomfortable trying to sit in >> a petticoat corded on the inside, depending on the size of the cording. :) >> >> I'm looking forward to seeing how the bands of contrasting color look on >> the outside, once I'm done. >> >> Let me know how yours works...we can compare. >> >> I've been thinking about exactly what evidence we have, from period >> sources, about how farthingales were stiffened. >> >> *We have the name: verdugado, or "sapling-guard", an indication that >> they were made of wood (or willow withies, or osiers) and sewn as "guards" >> onto skirts. >> >> *We have pictures of farthingales from late 15th c. spain, that clearly >> have round hoops fastened to the outside of the skirt at various points >> along the length of the skirt, covered with fabric. >> (http://costume.dm.net/farthingale/images/salome.gif) >> >> *We have Alcega's pattern for the shape of the skirt, but unfortunately he >> says nothing about how the willow bents are to be attached to this item. >> (http://costume.dm.net/images/alcega.gif) >> >> *We have written references to farthingales stiffened with bent rope and >> whalebone in 1560s and 1570s england. Again, no details about how they >> were sewn on. Also, references to "styffeninge" farthingales, by some >> unknown method. (starch? adding more bent?) and references to covering >> bent rope with fabric. All from Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts. >> >> *We have a depiction of a "spanish apron", which bears a striking >> resemblance to a farthingale sliced up the front with padding around the >> hips. (http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/farthingale/spanishapron.jpg) >> >> *We have a picture of a Spanish lady in Morocco wearing >> a farthingale stiffened with a semi-stiff material, sewn into what looks >> like tucked channels, dated from 1545. >> (http://costume.dm.net/farthingale/images/rope-farth1545-sm.gif) >> >> *We have various pictures (such as the italian woman aforementioned, the >> woodcut of Queen Elizabeth out hunting, and others) which could possibly >> show farthingales worn under skirts...though this isn't certain. >> (http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/pages/f103R.html), and >> (http://costume.dm.net/gallery/images/lizpic1.gif) >> >> *We have a picture showing the back side of a french woman that reveals >> the bottom edge of her farthingale underneath her skirt, revealing a hoop >> along the bottom edge. >> >> And that's it, really. All other information that I've found has been >> interpretations based on the above facts, including Arnold's recreation of >> the alcega farthingale by sewing separate wood hoops into tucks, and >> comments by the authors of all other major costume history works. >> >> There's really precious little out there. One picture supports the >> idea that the stiffening material was sewn into tucks; two others >> support the idea that they were sewn on as separate rings around the >> skirt, and then covered with fabric. One picture suggests that the >> rope was applied as a spiral on the outside of the skirt. All 16th c. pics >> of what we interpret to be farthingales show the stiffening applied in >> rows much closer than the 5 or 6 rows that most recreated farthingales > display. >> >> We don't even know much about exactly what was used for stiffening. The >> name suggests willow osiers, the 1545 picture suggests rope or rag or some >> non-stiff material, and Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts suggest bent-rope. >> There's no indication that hoops were sewn on the inner side of the >> farthingale, or rope sewn on tucks on the inner side of the farthingale. >> Though given the dearth of evidence, it's entirely possible this was done >> as well. >> >> Just thinking out loud... >> >> Drea >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 06:11:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BABPHP020142 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:11:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BA9h0P016191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 04:09:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BA9gnL019581; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 04:09:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BA9PnL019430 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 04:09:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47EA93692E for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:09:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19auqD-0001tf-00 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:09:25 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope In-Reply-To: <00ee01c34750$87fd8340$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> References: <3F0D745F.20208@faucet.net><20030710095627.Y24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> <00af01c34722$e26780c0$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> <00ee01c34750$87fd8340$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:09:25 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rebecca wrote: >> Um, I was intending to hand stitch it. But I'm sure your method would >> also work :) > > You obviously have a lot more time than I do - I have too many other > projects to sit and stitch anything by hand! I don't do everything by hand, but quite a bit. Basically I use my machine for long straight seams that don't show on the outside, and that's about it. Partly it's because I don't like the noisy machine and having to go to the other room to use it, because if I sew by hand I can sit on the comfy couch, chat to friends, watch Buffy, etc. Partly it's an authenticity thing. I do SCA, but I tend towards the more obsessive end of the accuracy scale :) K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 06:54:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BAsAHP020216 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:54:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BAqU0P018879 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 04:52:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BAqSnL006271; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 04:52:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BAqQnL006201 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 04:52:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m170.in-tch.com [216.166.191.170]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6BAXGc16936 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 04:33:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F0E9752.2B159479@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 04:54:10 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope References: <20030710162150.K24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> <002901c3476a$cd704ba0$0f1077d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Interesting that they say she's French, when the label says "L'Angloyse." (English?) Or is it just the image that's French? It certainly is an intriguely odd hat style, though....and I'm trying to figure out what that knotted piece of fabric is behind her (veil?) Thanks for sharing! --sue Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > Here's another image I recently ran across ........ > http://www.threadneedlest.com/Bulletinboard.htm French 1567 according to > Dress and Undress, Ahistory of Women's Underware. Elizabeth Ewing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 07:54:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BBsIHP020288 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:54:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BBqS0P023324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 05:52:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BBqOpJ002274; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 05:52:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BBqMpJ002260 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 05:52:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-171.75.220.7.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.220.7] helo=Dan) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19awRp-0000JO-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:52:21 -0400 Message-ID: <002301c347a3$16f37080$c0ae3841@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030710224631.S38339-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:53:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, could you post some pic's of this? My mind is not working to well this AM. Thanks, Genie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drea Leed" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope > You could try covering it with a strip of fabric. > > The way I'm doing mine is, I'm stitching a narrow strip of fabric in a > spiral up the skirt, from hem to top. then I'm hand-whip-stitching the > bent rope over the fabric seam allowance, then folding the fabric over the > rope and hand-stitching it down. > > Rope's coming along great, by the way! 15 yards made so far, 15 to go. > The more I handle it, the more I think this is the ultimate farthingale > boning material--made of period materials, stiffer along it's length than > hemp rope so it won't kink, much lighter than hemp rope (the 15 yards of > 5/8" diameter rope weighs in at less than a pound), and incredibly strong > yet very flexible. I can almost bend it entirely back on itself, without > anything snapping. > > With stiffening like bent rope sewn on the outside, I'll bet the > farthingale material itself can be much lighter, since it doesn't have to > be sturdy enough to hold the boning material stiched > inside tucks. The fabric would act more as a shaped base to keep the > spiral of bent rope in place, rather than the rope working to "hold out" > the skirt to the proper location. > > Happy happy, > > Drea > > > On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, > Kirrily Robert wrote: > > > Drea wrote: > > > True. One thing, though--it can be demmed uncomfortable trying to sit in > > > a petticoat corded on the inside, depending on the size of the cording. :) > > > > My cord is 6mm hemp. I was planning on only cording up to about knee > > height, at about 2" separation between bands. > > > > > *We have written references to farthingales stiffened with bent rope and > > > whalebone in 1560s and 1570s england. Again, no details about how they > > > were sewn on. Also, references to "styffeninge" farthingales, by some > > > unknown method. (starch? adding more bent?) and references to covering > > > bent rope with fabric. All from Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts. > > > > Hrm, no written references to hempen cord, though. Though the Italian > > woman definitely *looks* like hers is using normal rope. > > > > > We don't even know much about exactly what was used for stiffening. The > > > name suggests willow osiers, the 1545 picture suggests rope or rag or some > > > non-stiff material, and Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts suggest bent-rope. > > > There's no indication that hoops were sewn on the inner side of the > > > farthingale, or rope sewn on tucks on the inner side of the farthingale. > > > Though given the dearth of evidence, it's entirely possible this was done > > > as well. > > > > Hrm, perhaps I would consider doing my hemp on the outside (as seems > > more accurate) if I dye it and the fabric to match. I think brown hemp > > on white or undyed brownish linen would look dorky, but if both were red > > or something it would be pretty cool. > > > > K. > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 08:15:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BCFCHP020370 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:15:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BCDJ0P024855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:13:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BCDHDg011388; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:13:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BCDDDg011350 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:13:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h6BCDBp15606.; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:13:11 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:13:11 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:13:01 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In fact, the verse claims that it's a distinctively English style of cap! Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> mooncat@in-tch.com 07/11/03 11:54am >>> Interesting that they say she's French, when the label says "L'Angloyse." (English?) Or is it just the image that's French? It certainly is an intriguely odd hat style, though....and I'm trying to figure out what that knotted piece of fabric is behind her (veil?) Thanks for sharing! --sue Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > Here's another image I recently ran across ........ > http://www.threadneedlest.com/Bulletinboard.htm French 1567 according to > Dress and Undress, Ahistory of Women's Underware. Elizabeth Ewing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 08:39:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BCdJHP020413 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:39:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BCba0P027401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:37:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BCaRDg024199; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:36:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6BCa8Dg023757 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:36:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCu14KLhqchk9VlGXDqmqfVRm4yX+XB+0mQ==">; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:28:18 EDT Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H4TCDXS4; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:28:18 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:04:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope Message-ID: <20030711.070420.-299019507.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-5,7-9 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > and I'm trying to figure out what that knotted piece of fabric is behind her (veil?) > Thanks for sharing! > --sue I'd say that the knotted fabric is two long straight hanging sleeves which have been knotted together to keep them out of the way. Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 08:59:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BCxoHP020440 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:59:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BCw50P029703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:58:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BCw3Fi008510; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:58:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BCw1Fi008424 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:58:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp456786pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net[68.51.39.237](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20030711125756015008ui2ge>; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:57:56 +0000 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:57:00 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Allison Pace To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200307110254.h6B2sTvi000301@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <297721D4-B39F-11D7-B313-000393D446D6@comcast.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [h-cost] fitting a GFD/cotte X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does this mean if I use the same fabric (i.e., linen) I can use the "fitting" dress as a pattern from which to cut subsequent dresses? It was my understanding that each dress would need to be fitted directly on my person. Allison >> It certainly helped fitting a couple of cottes, 1 for myself fitted by >> Marcelle, and one that I fitted using what I learned from Marcelle. >> It >> made it absurdly simple to keep the fitting on grain. Just make sure >> you get the woven type of gingham, not printed. > > I think it was fabric-store.com that used to have, and maybe still has, > linen woven with a gingham-like pattern that would have made a good > grid. > > You'd want to do your fittings in linen if possible; it behaves > differently from cotton. So it would be ideal to have a gridded linen > rather than use cotton gingham. > > --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 09:12:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDC8HP020472 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:12:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDAR0P000791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:10:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDAOFi014381; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:10:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDAMFi014364 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:10:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail23.ureach.com (mailout.ureach.com [172.16.2.83]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA07782 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:10:22 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-223-181.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.223.181]) by mail23.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA14483 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:10:21 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c347ad$3c8b43e0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean-oooh Johnny! Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:06:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh yeah.... I have been a stalker.... uh I mean fan... since 21 Jump Street. ;-) Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean-oooh Johnny! > > On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 03:46 PM, Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > > > I don't follow movies much, but since I saw Chocolate with Johnny Dep I > > swore I would see him in everything he makes. I saw the trailers for > > POTC > > and, well...drooled a little. I think he is hot, hot, hot. I'd jump > > his > > bones any day! Sorry Bjarne, Sorry Jeff! :} > > I hope I'm not the only one out here who fell in love with Johnny Depp > during his stint on "21 Jump Street". That show rocked for so many > reasons, Depp was the main one. ;) > > Sarah-not-Sarra > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 09:25:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDPuHP020497 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:25:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDNX0P001724 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:23:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDNWFi020166; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:23:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6BDNTFi020137 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:23:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 22462 invoked by uid 1005); 11 Jul 2003 13:23:24 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.603055 secs); 11 Jul 2003 13:23:24 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.603055 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 2003 13:23:22 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:23:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope In-Reply-To: <002901c3476a$cd704ba0$0f1077d8@pavilion> Message-ID: <20030711091749.L45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cool pic!! OK, another book I have to hunt up...you wouldn't happen to have the source for this picture available? You know, I'm not sure that this on /is/ a farthingale, rather than a welted kirtle skirt. Look at the way the bottom edge ripples, and how the side-on view of the edge of the welts is completely flat. Thanks for the picture, Drea On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > Here's another image I recently ran across ........ > http://www.threadneedlest.com/Bulletinboard.htm French 1567 according to > Dress and Undress, Ahistory of Women's Underware. Elizabeth Ewing > > Lisa > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Drea Leed" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 2:01 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope > > > > > > > Oooh, that makes me happy! I'm about to start a corded petticoat, and > > > was dreading sewing those channels. Whipstitching, though, *that* I can > > > do very happily! Though I think I might sew it to the inside of the > > > petticoat rather than the outside. > > > > True. One thing, though--it can be demmed uncomfortable trying to sit in > > a petticoat corded on the inside, depending on the size of the cording. :) > > > > I'm looking forward to seeing how the bands of contrasting color look on > > the outside, once I'm done. > > > > Let me know how yours works...we can compare. > > > > I've been thinking about exactly what evidence we have, from period > > sources, about how farthingales were stiffened. > > > > *We have the name: verdugado, or "sapling-guard", an indication that > > they were made of wood (or willow withies, or osiers) and sewn as "guards" > > onto skirts. > > > > *We have pictures of farthingales from late 15th c. spain, that clearly > > have round hoops fastened to the outside of the skirt at various points > > along the length of the skirt, covered with fabric. > > (http://costume.dm.net/farthingale/images/salome.gif) > > > > *We have Alcega's pattern for the shape of the skirt, but unfortunately he > > says nothing about how the willow bents are to be attached to this item. > > (http://costume.dm.net/images/alcega.gif) > > > > *We have written references to farthingales stiffened with bent rope and > > whalebone in 1560s and 1570s england. Again, no details about how they > > were sewn on. Also, references to "styffeninge" farthingales, by some > > unknown method. (starch? adding more bent?) and references to covering > > bent rope with fabric. All from Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts. > > > > *We have a depiction of a "spanish apron", which bears a striking > > resemblance to a farthingale sliced up the front with padding around the > > hips. (http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/farthingale/spanishapron.jpg) > > > > *We have a picture of a Spanish lady in Morocco wearing > > a farthingale stiffened with a semi-stiff material, sewn into what looks > > like tucked channels, dated from 1545. > > (http://costume.dm.net/farthingale/images/rope-farth1545-sm.gif) > > > > *We have various pictures (such as the italian woman aforementioned, the > > woodcut of Queen Elizabeth out hunting, and others) which could possibly > > show farthingales worn under skirts...though this isn't certain. > > (http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/pages/f103R.html), and > > (http://costume.dm.net/gallery/images/lizpic1.gif) > > > > *We have a picture showing the back side of a french woman that reveals > > the bottom edge of her farthingale underneath her skirt, revealing a hoop > > along the bottom edge. > > > > And that's it, really. All other information that I've found has been > > interpretations based on the above facts, including Arnold's recreation of > > the alcega farthingale by sewing separate wood hoops into tucks, and > > comments by the authors of all other major costume history works. > > > > There's really precious little out there. One picture supports the > > idea that the stiffening material was sewn into tucks; two others > > support the idea that they were sewn on as separate rings around the > > skirt, and then covered with fabric. One picture suggests that the > > rope was applied as a spiral on the outside of the skirt. All 16th c. pics > > of what we interpret to be farthingales show the stiffening applied in > > rows much closer than the 5 or 6 rows that most recreated farthingales > display. > > > > We don't even know much about exactly what was used for stiffening. The > > name suggests willow osiers, the 1545 picture suggests rope or rag or some > > non-stiff material, and Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts suggest bent-rope. > > There's no indication that hoops were sewn on the inner side of the > > farthingale, or rope sewn on tucks on the inner side of the farthingale. > > Though given the dearth of evidence, it's entirely possible this was done > > as well. > > > > Just thinking out loud... > > > > Drea > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 09:27:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDRfHP020505 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:27:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDQ30P001905 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDQ2Fi021225; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDPxFi021202 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:25:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail21.ureach.com (mail21.ureach.com [172.16.2.81]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA12479 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:25:59 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-223-181.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.223.181]) by mail21.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA27658 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:25:58 -0400 Message-ID: <003001c347af$6b038eb0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F0DAD91.5091.1AF1ADC9@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:22:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you have some references I could check to see the proper way to finish seams? I am sadly ignorant of how to do many of the techniques mentioned in this thread. I know how to french seam, but I usually just serge. I would prefer to do something more appropriate. Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish > > > I > > talked to the entrant later about other construction techniques and > > the entrant agreed the frenching (unneccessary for this fabric) caused > > the problems with the gore. Someone had told the entrant that it was > > proper to french those seams and if she did not she would lose points. > > Did they show the person any documentation that frenching was period > to begin with? I haven't found documentation for it until quite a bit > past the usual "pre17thC" period. I've found felled seams, mock > felled seams, overcast edges (which to me can take the place of > "serging") and the like, but I've never found french seams. > > > *I* have also had people ask me "how did you finish that seam" - my > > reply is usually, "I ironed it flat" and occasionally, "I ironed it > > flat and fulled" The last time, the asker replied with a disappointed > > "Oh. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk." I haven't had any problem with the unfinished > > seams of linen shirts raveling...or wool dresses. > > I've found a lot of problems with linen ravelling like crazy. In > fact, I know some people who won't make things with linen because > they say that they hate the way it ravels and can't afford a serger. > > In terms of wool, it depends on how well fulled it is. Fulling it > sufficiently *is* a form of seam finish. > > > Certainly, there are instances that you'd want to finish a seam - if > > there's high stress, if you're using old or fine silk, etc...but WOOL > > on a non-stressed seam? And, if you must finish the seam, why not do > > it in a more documentable way? Is this a "serger mentality"? > > I don't think it's "serger mentality" since most of the people I hear > about it the most from don't even use sergers. > > I think it is just misinformation. They hear that seams should be > appropriately finished, remember the French Seams that someone taught > them, and think that that's "appropriate". What they need is > *appropriate" information about *appropriate* seam finishing > techniques. > > If I had to finish the seams on a dress with gores, I think that I'd > probably use a mock fell. More documentable to more time periods > (from early Viking through 14th C through 16th C and on to "early > modern" times.) And it's not so bulky! (It's especially helpful for > keeping those awful little points at the top of gores from fraying > out. > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 09:30:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDUDHP020512 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:30:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDSZ0P002092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:28:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDSYFi022445; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:28:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6BDSWFi022423 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:28:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 50136 invoked by uid 1005); 11 Jul 2003 13:28:28 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.113212 secs); 11 Jul 2003 13:28:28 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.113212 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 2003 13:28:28 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:28:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030711092645.L45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I don't do everything by hand, but quite a bit. Basically I use my > machine for long straight seams that don't show on the outside, and > that's about it. Partly it's because I don't like the noisy machine and > having to go to the other room to use it, because if I sew by hand I can > sit on the comfy couch, chat to friends, watch Buffy, etc. Partly it's an > authenticity thing. I do SCA, but I tend towards the more obsessive end > of the accuracy scale :) Me too. I started out doing everything by machine, then started doing visible stitching (hems, applique & such) by hand, and now I only do by machine seams that will never see the light of day. Ditto Buffy...though, I've found that Austen flicks are the best for stitching, because you don't need to keep your eyes fixed on the movie to follow the plot. Drea > > K. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 09:37:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDbMHP020520 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:37:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDZT0P002623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:35:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDZSFi025787; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:35:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6BDZPFi025772 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:35:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 79075 invoked by uid 1005); 11 Jul 2003 13:35:20 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.846622 secs); 11 Jul 2003 13:35:20 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.846622 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 2003 13:35:19 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:35:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope In-Reply-To: <002301c347a3$16f37080$c0ae3841@Dan> Message-ID: <20030711092838.T45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It is pretty hard to visualize... 1. draw a chalk spiral all around your skirt 2. lay a 2 inch wide strip of velvet face down, pinning it so the bottom edge matches the chalk line you've drawn 3. stitch the velvet down, half an inch from the edge (and half an inch from the chalk line) 4. Take the bent rope, lay it so that it rests over the seam allowance of the velvet (between the stitching and the chalk line) and whip-stitch it to the farthingale, all along the spiral. 5. pull the velvet over the bent rope, so it's right side out. Tuck the excess under, and whipstitch/hemstitch it down on the other side of the bent rope, covering it. If you're still puzzled, never fear--pictures of this will be going online when I'm done with the project. Drea On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Genie wrote: > Hi, > > could you post some pic's of this? My mind is not working to well this AM. > Thanks, > > Genie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Drea Leed" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 9:55 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope > > > > You could try covering it with a strip of fabric. > > > > The way I'm doing mine is, I'm stitching a narrow strip of fabric in a > > spiral up the skirt, from hem to top. then I'm hand-whip-stitching the > > bent rope over the fabric seam allowance, then folding the fabric over the > > rope and hand-stitching it down. > > > > Rope's coming along great, by the way! 15 yards made so far, 15 to go. > > The more I handle it, the more I think this is the ultimate farthingale > > boning material--made of period materials, stiffer along it's length than > > hemp rope so it won't kink, much lighter than hemp rope (the 15 yards of > > 5/8" diameter rope weighs in at less than a pound), and incredibly strong > > yet very flexible. I can almost bend it entirely back on itself, without > > anything snapping. > > > > With stiffening like bent rope sewn on the outside, I'll bet the > > farthingale material itself can be much lighter, since it doesn't have to > > be sturdy enough to hold the boning material stiched > > inside tucks. The fabric would act more as a shaped base to keep the > > spiral of bent rope in place, rather than the rope working to "hold out" > > the skirt to the proper location. > > > > Happy happy, > > > > Drea > > > > > > On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, > > Kirrily Robert wrote: > > > > > Drea wrote: > > > > True. One thing, though--it can be demmed uncomfortable trying to sit > in > > > > a petticoat corded on the inside, depending on the size of the > cording. :) > > > > > > My cord is 6mm hemp. I was planning on only cording up to about knee > > > height, at about 2" separation between bands. > > > > > > > *We have written references to farthingales stiffened with bent rope > and > > > > whalebone in 1560s and 1570s england. Again, no details about how they > > > > were sewn on. Also, references to "styffeninge" farthingales, by some > > > > unknown method. (starch? adding more bent?) and references to covering > > > > bent rope with fabric. All from Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts. > > > > > > Hrm, no written references to hempen cord, though. Though the Italian > > > woman definitely *looks* like hers is using normal rope. > > > > > > > We don't even know much about exactly what was used for stiffening. > The > > > > name suggests willow osiers, the 1545 picture suggests rope or rag or > some > > > > non-stiff material, and Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts suggest > bent-rope. > > > > There's no indication that hoops were sewn on the inner side of the > > > > farthingale, or rope sewn on tucks on the inner side of the > farthingale. > > > > Though given the dearth of evidence, it's entirely possible this was > done > > > > as well. > > > > > > Hrm, perhaps I would consider doing my hemp on the outside (as seems > > > more accurate) if I dye it and the fabric to match. I think brown hemp > > > on white or undyed brownish linen would look dorky, but if both were red > > > or something it would be pretty cool. > > > > > > K. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 09:38:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDc6HP020523 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:38:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDaI0P002677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:36:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDaIFi026108; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:36:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6BDaFFi026083 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:36:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 82756 invoked by uid 1005); 11 Jul 2003 13:36:10 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.092877 secs); 11 Jul 2003 13:36:10 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.092877 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 2003 13:36:10 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:36:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish In-Reply-To: <003001c347af$6b038eb0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> Message-ID: <20030711093539.B45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Museum of London's "Textiles and Clothing" book has some good demonstrations of various medieval finishes used. Drea On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Beteena Paradise wrote: > Do you have some references I could check to see the proper way to finish > seams? I am sadly ignorant of how to do many of the techniques mentioned in > this thread. I know how to french seam, but I usually just serge. I would > prefer to do something more appropriate. > > Teena > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 9:16 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish > > > > > > > I > > > talked to the entrant later about other construction techniques and > > > the entrant agreed the frenching (unneccessary for this fabric) caused > > > the problems with the gore. Someone had told the entrant that it was > > > proper to french those seams and if she did not she would lose points. > > > > Did they show the person any documentation that frenching was period > > to begin with? I haven't found documentation for it until quite a bit > > past the usual "pre17thC" period. I've found felled seams, mock > > felled seams, overcast edges (which to me can take the place of > > "serging") and the like, but I've never found french seams. > > > > > *I* have also had people ask me "how did you finish that seam" - my > > > reply is usually, "I ironed it flat" and occasionally, "I ironed it > > > flat and fulled" The last time, the asker replied with a disappointed > > > "Oh. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk." I haven't had any problem with the unfinished > > > seams of linen shirts raveling...or wool dresses. > > > > I've found a lot of problems with linen ravelling like crazy. In > > fact, I know some people who won't make things with linen because > > they say that they hate the way it ravels and can't afford a serger. > > > > In terms of wool, it depends on how well fulled it is. Fulling it > > sufficiently *is* a form of seam finish. > > > > > Certainly, there are instances that you'd want to finish a seam - if > > > there's high stress, if you're using old or fine silk, etc...but WOOL > > > on a non-stressed seam? And, if you must finish the seam, why not do > > > it in a more documentable way? Is this a "serger mentality"? > > > > I don't think it's "serger mentality" since most of the people I hear > > about it the most from don't even use sergers. > > > > I think it is just misinformation. They hear that seams should be > > appropriately finished, remember the French Seams that someone taught > > them, and think that that's "appropriate". What they need is > > *appropriate" information about *appropriate* seam finishing > > techniques. > > > > If I had to finish the seams on a dress with gores, I think that I'd > > probably use a mock fell. More documentable to more time periods > > (from early Viking through 14th C through 16th C and on to "early > > modern" times.) And it's not so bulky! (It's especially helpful for > > keeping those awful little points at the top of gores from fraying > > out. > > > > Kat > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 09:43:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDh5HP020532 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:43:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDfG0P003015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:41:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDfFFi028655; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:41:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDfDFi028643 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:41:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-005-089.jps.net ([216.119.5.89] helo=pavilion) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ay99-0001rk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:41:12 -0700 Message-ID: <000f01c347b4$5b4f12a0$590577d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030711091749.L45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:57:23 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The picture comes from Dress and Undress, A History of Women's Underwear by Elizabeth Ewing, Drama Book Specialists (Publishers) New York, 1978 - I'd wouldn't spend money on this one, a library lend is all that it's worth. But I don't recall seeing this image before. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drea Leed" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 6:23 AM Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope > Cool pic!! OK, another book I have to hunt up...you wouldn't happen to > have the source for this picture available? > > You know, I'm not sure that this on /is/ a farthingale, rather than a > welted kirtle skirt. Look at the way the bottom edge ripples, and how the > side-on view of the edge of the welts is completely flat. > > Thanks for the picture, > > Drea > > > On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > > Here's another image I recently ran across ........ > > http://www.threadneedlest.com/Bulletinboard.htm French 1567 according to > > Dress and Undress, Ahistory of Women's Underware. Elizabeth Ewing > > > > Lisa > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Drea Leed" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 2:01 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope > > > > > > > > > > > Oooh, that makes me happy! I'm about to start a corded petticoat, and > > > > was dreading sewing those channels. Whipstitching, though, *that* I can > > > > do very happily! Though I think I might sew it to the inside of the > > > > petticoat rather than the outside. > > > > > > True. One thing, though--it can be demmed uncomfortable trying to sit in > > > a petticoat corded on the inside, depending on the size of the cording. :) > > > > > > I'm looking forward to seeing how the bands of contrasting color look on > > > the outside, once I'm done. > > > > > > Let me know how yours works...we can compare. > > > > > > I've been thinking about exactly what evidence we have, from period > > > sources, about how farthingales were stiffened. > > > > > > *We have the name: verdugado, or "sapling-guard", an indication that > > > they were made of wood (or willow withies, or osiers) and sewn as "guards" > > > onto skirts. > > > > > > *We have pictures of farthingales from late 15th c. spain, that clearly > > > have round hoops fastened to the outside of the skirt at various points > > > along the length of the skirt, covered with fabric. > > > (http://costume.dm.net/farthingale/images/salome.gif) > > > > > > *We have Alcega's pattern for the shape of the skirt, but unfortunately he > > > says nothing about how the willow bents are to be attached to this item. > > > (http://costume.dm.net/images/alcega.gif) > > > > > > *We have written references to farthingales stiffened with bent rope and > > > whalebone in 1560s and 1570s england. Again, no details about how they > > > were sewn on. Also, references to "styffeninge" farthingales, by some > > > unknown method. (starch? adding more bent?) and references to covering > > > bent rope with fabric. All from Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts. > > > > > > *We have a depiction of a "spanish apron", which bears a striking > > > resemblance to a farthingale sliced up the front with padding around the > > > hips. (http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/farthingale/spanishapron.jpg) > > > > > > *We have a picture of a Spanish lady in Morocco wearing > > > a farthingale stiffened with a semi-stiff material, sewn into what looks > > > like tucked channels, dated from 1545. > > > (http://costume.dm.net/farthingale/images/rope-farth1545-sm.gif) > > > > > > *We have various pictures (such as the italian woman aforementioned, the > > > woodcut of Queen Elizabeth out hunting, and others) which could possibly > > > show farthingales worn under skirts...though this isn't certain. > > > (http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/pages/f103R.html), and > > > (http://costume.dm.net/gallery/images/lizpic1.gif) > > > > > > *We have a picture showing the back side of a french woman that reveals > > > the bottom edge of her farthingale underneath her skirt, revealing a hoop > > > along the bottom edge. > > > > > > And that's it, really. All other information that I've found has been > > > interpretations based on the above facts, including Arnold's recreation of > > > the alcega farthingale by sewing separate wood hoops into tucks, and > > > comments by the authors of all other major costume history works. > > > > > > There's really precious little out there. One picture supports the > > > idea that the stiffening material was sewn into tucks; two others > > > support the idea that they were sewn on as separate rings around the > > > skirt, and then covered with fabric. One picture suggests that the > > > rope was applied as a spiral on the outside of the skirt. All 16th c. pics > > > of what we interpret to be farthingales show the stiffening applied in > > > rows much closer than the 5 or 6 rows that most recreated farthingales > > display. > > > > > > We don't even know much about exactly what was used for stiffening. The > > > name suggests willow osiers, the 1545 picture suggests rope or rag or some > > > non-stiff material, and Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts suggest bent-rope. > > > There's no indication that hoops were sewn on the inner side of the > > > farthingale, or rope sewn on tucks on the inner side of the farthingale. > > > Though given the dearth of evidence, it's entirely possible this was done > > > as well. > > > > > > Just thinking out loud... > > > > > > Drea > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 09:44:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDiOHP020535 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:44:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDgk0P003120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:42:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDgjFi029443; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:42:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDgfFi029390 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:42:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21894 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:07:26 -0500 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:07:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fitting a GFD/cotte In-Reply-To: <297721D4-B39F-11D7-B313-000393D446D6@comcast.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Allison Pace wrote: > Does this mean if I use the same fabric (i.e., linen) I can use the > "fitting" dress as a pattern from which to cut subsequent dresses? > It was my understanding that each dress would need to be fitted > directly on my person. Yes, it does, but there's a shortcut. Don't know how others prefer it, but here's one thing I do: I do an initial fitting of just the torso (down just past the point of flare) in linen, preferably the same linen I'd use for a lining. I mark the seams, gore insertion points and angles, depth of eyelet holes, etc. and make other notes very clearly, and save it as a mockup. I use this as a "pattern" for cutting the real lining and also for the outer fabric. Assuming the real lining is the same fabric as the mockup, the full version should be essentially identical; it might need a tweak here and there after you assemble it and check it on the body. I fit the full lining first, then attach the outer fabric and do any last adjustments on that. The outer fabric doesn't usually require much adjustment, as the lining does most of the work, and the outer fabric mostly sits on top of it; also, I usually use wool for the outer fabric, which is a bit more flexible and forgiving and tends to mold over the shape that the lining has established. If you have a silk on the outside, it gets dicier -- leave large seam allowances on your first run ;-) Then you can save the lining half-length mockup as a shortcut for future dresses. It cuts out a few steps of the process. However, each dress does still need a final fitting adjustment -- first for the lining, and then for the whole dress together -- because each piece of fabric has slight differences in "give." And your body may change too; it's a good idea to fit the (real) lining before you cut the main fabric each time, so that if you have major changes to make, you do them in the lining. For someone who is only going to want one dress, I go ahead and just fit the lining, and don't bother with making a mockup to save. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 09:52:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDqZHP020547 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:52:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDor0P003829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:50:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDoqFi003723; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:50:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40907.mail.yahoo.com (web40907.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6BDonFi003655 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:50:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030711135044.75566.qmail@web40907.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.104.32.34] by web40907.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:50:44 PDT Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:50:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200307111336.h6BDaOFk026154@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] re: fitting a GFD/cotte X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Allison wrote: Does this mean if I use the same fabric (i.e., linen) I can use the "fitting" dress as a pattern from which to cut subsequent dresses? It was my understanding that each dress would need to be fitted directly on my person. I respond: Robin can explain this in more detail, but the 'short' answer is that you can do a number of different things: fit with the fashion fabric (if making a cotte simple, for instance [an unlined cotte]), fit with the lining fabric and then use that to cut your fashion fabric, or you can do either of those and then copy your pattern to muslin as a starting point the next time you want to make one of these gowns (now my personal preference). You can also fit with fabric you don't intend to use for a gown. The purpose of this last option is to simply have a pattern by which you will start and then tweak your lining and/or fashion fabrics as the actual gown comes together. If you use a plain weave cotton, for instance, there will be subtle differences between the way it holds you in and the way linen would, if you fit using linen. It should be understood that a fitting done with fabric other than that which will go into your gown is not 100% an exact fit, but it's close enough to get you 95% there when you cut out your actual dress pieces. The rest will have to be fiddled with as you work on the dress itself. -Tasha ===== http://www.cottesimple.com An exploration of European clothing and accessories from the late 14th/early 15th centuries. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 10:00:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BE0LHP020554 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:00:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDwd0P004433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:58:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDwbnO007677; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:58:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BDwanO007626 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:58:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49](untrusted sender)) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2003071113583101200atmuhe>; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:58:31 +0000 Message-ID: <024c01c347b4$890075e0$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002801c33b27$51a81880$7e8c01d0@castlebooks> <33832.162.119.64.111.1057873475.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> <4.3.1.2.20030711010416.0548a7b0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:58:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are two on ebay, one is the ripped one the other is not, it is a clean nice one. I suspect the ripped one must have been the stunt double. ;) Sincerely, Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 3:04 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean : : >The costumes are already on ebay, the corsets are not too shabby. :) : : ...except that it ripped right off Elizabeth when they tugged on it. : : : CarolynKayta Barrows : dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian : www.FunStuft.com : : //// \\\ : ////-@@\\\ : (((( 7 ))) : ((( <> )))) : ) (((((( : /----\ /---\)) : : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 10:02:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BE2tHP020560 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:02:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BE1E0P004663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:01:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BE1CnO009261; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:01:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BE1AnO009234 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:01:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22016 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:25:56 -0500 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:25:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: fitting a GFD/cotte In-Reply-To: <20030711135044.75566.qmail@web40907.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Tasha McGann wrote: > You can also fit with fabric you don't intend to use for a gown. The > purpose of this last option is to simply have a pattern by which you > will start and then tweak your lining and/or fashion fabrics as the > actual gown comes together. If you use a plain weave cotton, for > instance, there will be subtle differences between the way it holds > you in and the way linen would, if you fit using linen. It should be > understood that a fitting done with fabric other than that which will > go into your gown is not 100% an exact fit, but it's close enough to > get you 95% there when you cut out your actual dress pieces. The rest > will have to be fiddled with as you work on the dress itself. I'd go far enough to say that I wouldn't recommend cotton for any step anymore. So many of my "usual" fitting problems disappeared completely when I eliminated cotton. There are just some things cotton doesn't do very well. For instance, part of my technique involves distorting the warp/weft angle in certain parts (e.g. around the armhole, shoulders, and neckline), and cotton resists that. The same property that makes linen crawl while you try to cut it on the table makes it very flexible on the body; I hate doing major flat cutting of linen, but I love working with it on the body. So it's well suited to this method. (Medieval people had cotton at this place and time, but they apparently weren't using it much for clothing. I can see why.) I bought a ton of linen cheap on clearance at Jo-Ann's once -- some people here will remember the infamous fuchsia linen discussion, as a bunch of us on the list found the same stuff at our local stores, all at the same time. That's now my fitting stash. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 10:06:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BE5xHP020568 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:05:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BE4K0P004900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:04:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BE4InO010767; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:04:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BE4FnO010722 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:04:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www20.ureach.com (www20.ureach.com [172.16.2.48]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28470 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:04:15 -0400 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by www20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA13097; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:04:15 -0400 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:04:15 -0400 Message-Id: <200307111404.KAA13097@www20.ureach.com> Received: from [68.155.223.181] by www20.ureach.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:04:15 GMT To: "Drea Leed" From: Teena Kessinger Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-vsuite-type: e X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oooh! That book is on my wishlist for my birthday. Thanks! ---- On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Drea Leed (drea@nospam) wrote: > The Museum of London's "Textiles and Clothing" book has some good > demonstrations of various medieval finishes used. > > Drea > > > On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Beteena Paradise wrote: > > > Do you have some references I could check to see the proper way to finish > > seams? I am sadly ignorant of how to do many of the techniques mentioned in > > this thread. I know how to french seam, but I usually just serge. I would > > prefer to do something more appropriate. > > > > Teena > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 9:16 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish > > > > > > > > > > > I > > > > talked to the entrant later about other construction techniques and > > > > the entrant agreed the frenching (unneccessary for this fabric) caused > > > > the problems with the gore. Someone had told the entrant that it was > > > > proper to french those seams and if she did not she would lose points. > > > > > > Did they show the person any documentation that frenching was period > > > to begin with? I haven't found documentation for it until quite a bit > > > past the usual "pre17thC" period. I've found felled seams, mock > > > felled seams, overcast edges (which to me can take the place of > > > "serging") and the like, but I've never found french seams. > > > > > > > *I* have also had people ask me "how did you finish that seam" - my > > > > reply is usually, "I ironed it flat" and occasionally, "I ironed it > > > > flat and fulled" The last time, the asker replied with a disappointed > > > > "Oh. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk." I haven't had any problem with the unfinished > > > > seams of linen shirts raveling...or wool dresses. > > > > > > I've found a lot of problems with linen ravelling like crazy. In > > > fact, I know some people who won't make things with linen because > > > they say that they hate the way it ravels and can't afford a serger. > > > > > > In terms of wool, it depends on how well fulled it is. Fulling it > > > sufficiently *is* a form of seam finish. > > > > > > > Certainly, there are instances that you'd want to finish a seam - if > > > > there's high stress, if you're using old or fine silk, etc...but WOOL > > > > on a non-stressed seam? And, if you must finish the seam, why not do > > > > it in a more documentable way? Is this a "serger mentality"? > > > > > > I don't think it's "serger mentality" since most of the people I hear > > > about it the most from don't even use sergers. > > > > > > I think it is just misinformation. They hear that seams should be > > > appropriately finished, remember the French Seams that someone taught > > > them, and think that that's "appropriate". What they need is > > > *appropriate" information about *appropriate* seam finishing > > > techniques. > > > > > > If I had to finish the seams on a dress with gores, I think that I'd > > > probably use a mock fell. More documentable to more time periods > > > (from early Viking through 14th C through 16th C and on to "early > > > modern" times.) And it's not so bulky! (It's especially helpful for > > > keeping those awful little points at the top of gores from fraying > > > out. > > > > > > Kat > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 10:19:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BEJqHP020587 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:19:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BEHx0P006077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:17:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BEHvnO017900; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:17:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BEHtnO017879 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:17:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-010-067.jps.net ([216.119.10.67] helo=pavilion) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ayif-0001Ii-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:17:53 -0700 Message-ID: <003c01c347b9$7b751b60$590577d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030711091749.L45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:33:09 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry, no source for the illustration is listed in the book. Just "French farthingale, c.1580 - the author lists other sources for images, but nothing for this one. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drea Leed" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 6:23 AM Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope > Cool pic!! OK, another book I have to hunt up...you wouldn't happen to > have the source for this picture available? > > You know, I'm not sure that this on /is/ a farthingale, rather than a > welted kirtle skirt. Look at the way the bottom edge ripples, and how the > side-on view of the edge of the welts is completely flat. > > Thanks for the picture, > > Drea > > > On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > > Here's another image I recently ran across ........ > > http://www.threadneedlest.com/Bulletinboard.htm French 1567 according to > > Dress and Undress, Ahistory of Women's Underware. Elizabeth Ewing > > > > Lisa > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Drea Leed" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 2:01 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope > > > > > > > > > > > Oooh, that makes me happy! I'm about to start a corded petticoat, and > > > > was dreading sewing those channels. Whipstitching, though, *that* I can > > > > do very happily! Though I think I might sew it to the inside of the > > > > petticoat rather than the outside. > > > > > > True. One thing, though--it can be demmed uncomfortable trying to sit in > > > a petticoat corded on the inside, depending on the size of the cording. :) > > > > > > I'm looking forward to seeing how the bands of contrasting color look on > > > the outside, once I'm done. > > > > > > Let me know how yours works...we can compare. > > > > > > I've been thinking about exactly what evidence we have, from period > > > sources, about how farthingales were stiffened. > > > > > > *We have the name: verdugado, or "sapling-guard", an indication that > > > they were made of wood (or willow withies, or osiers) and sewn as "guards" > > > onto skirts. > > > > > > *We have pictures of farthingales from late 15th c. spain, that clearly > > > have round hoops fastened to the outside of the skirt at various points > > > along the length of the skirt, covered with fabric. > > > (http://costume.dm.net/farthingale/images/salome.gif) > > > > > > *We have Alcega's pattern for the shape of the skirt, but unfortunately he > > > says nothing about how the willow bents are to be attached to this item. > > > (http://costume.dm.net/images/alcega.gif) > > > > > > *We have written references to farthingales stiffened with bent rope and > > > whalebone in 1560s and 1570s england. Again, no details about how they > > > were sewn on. Also, references to "styffeninge" farthingales, by some > > > unknown method. (starch? adding more bent?) and references to covering > > > bent rope with fabric. All from Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts. > > > > > > *We have a depiction of a "spanish apron", which bears a striking > > > resemblance to a farthingale sliced up the front with padding around the > > > hips. (http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/farthingale/spanishapron.jpg) > > > > > > *We have a picture of a Spanish lady in Morocco wearing > > > a farthingale stiffened with a semi-stiff material, sewn into what looks > > > like tucked channels, dated from 1545. > > > (http://costume.dm.net/farthingale/images/rope-farth1545-sm.gif) > > > > > > *We have various pictures (such as the italian woman aforementioned, the > > > woodcut of Queen Elizabeth out hunting, and others) which could possibly > > > show farthingales worn under skirts...though this isn't certain. > > > (http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/pages/f103R.html), and > > > (http://costume.dm.net/gallery/images/lizpic1.gif) > > > > > > *We have a picture showing the back side of a french woman that reveals > > > the bottom edge of her farthingale underneath her skirt, revealing a hoop > > > along the bottom edge. > > > > > > And that's it, really. All other information that I've found has been > > > interpretations based on the above facts, including Arnold's recreation of > > > the alcega farthingale by sewing separate wood hoops into tucks, and > > > comments by the authors of all other major costume history works. > > > > > > There's really precious little out there. One picture supports the > > > idea that the stiffening material was sewn into tucks; two others > > > support the idea that they were sewn on as separate rings around the > > > skirt, and then covered with fabric. One picture suggests that the > > > rope was applied as a spiral on the outside of the skirt. All 16th c. pics > > > of what we interpret to be farthingales show the stiffening applied in > > > rows much closer than the 5 or 6 rows that most recreated farthingales > > display. > > > > > > We don't even know much about exactly what was used for stiffening. The > > > name suggests willow osiers, the 1545 picture suggests rope or rag or some > > > non-stiff material, and Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts suggest bent-rope. > > > There's no indication that hoops were sewn on the inner side of the > > > farthingale, or rope sewn on tucks on the inner side of the farthingale. > > > Though given the dearth of evidence, it's entirely possible this was done > > > as well. > > > > > > Just thinking out loud... > > > > > > Drea > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 10:24:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BEOxHP020594 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:24:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BENL0P006640 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:23:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BENKnO020692; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:23:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BENGnO020621 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:23:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.146.152fd94c (3932) for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:23:05 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <146.152fd94c.2c402248@aol.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:23:04 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/11/2003 9:04:53 AM Central Standard Time, bkessinger@ureach.com writes: > Oooh! That book is on my wishlist for my birthday. Thanks! > Does anybody find that they have no willpower for books on wishlists? I just find that anything I try to put on my "I'll get it on my !" ends up being gotten about 5 seconds later due to the whole Book Instant Gratification Need? Or am I just a big spoiled baby? -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 10:38:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BEc9HP020613 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:38:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BEYk0P007827 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:34:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BEYjnO027569; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:34:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6BEYenO027488 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:34:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 15446 invoked by uid 1005); 11 Jul 2003 14:34:34 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.531708 secs); 11 Jul 2003 14:34:34 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.531708 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 2003 14:34:33 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:34:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish In-Reply-To: <146.152fd94c.2c402248@aol.com> Message-ID: <20030711103233.Y45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Does anybody find that they have no willpower for books on wishlists? I just > find that anything I try to put on my "I'll get it on my day>!" ends up being gotten about 5 seconds later due to the whole Book > Instant Gratification Need? Or am I just a big spoiled baby? No, sister, you're a member of the Ancient and Sacred Order of Bibliophiles. :) There is nothing as exhilarating as recieving a rare costume book in the mail and then spending a good 15 minutes leaping about the living room with it clutched to your chest, crowing "Mine! It's all Mine!" Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 10:59:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BExOHP020655 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:59:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BEvZ0P010570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:57:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BEvX8G012853; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:57:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law15-f10.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.23.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BEvT8G012732 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:57:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:57:24 -0700 Received: from 141.154.75.98 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:57:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [141.154.75.98] X-Originating-Email: [lauradi7@hotmail.com] From: "Laura Dickerson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:57:24 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2003 14:57:24.0699 (UTC) FILETIME=[BD028AB0:01C347BC] Subject: [h-cost] sharp object on airplanes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We always travel with the Fiskars rounded end kids' scissors. They've been scrutinized but never confiscated. Shocking lapse on the part of airline personnel - last summer I walked through the x-ray machine (having emptied my pockets) wearing a large straw hat that was pinned to my head. With hat pins. 4 inches long, with a decorative item on one end but really sharp at the other end. Machine didn't beep. Screening folks said nothing. Flight attendants said nothing. Hat stayed on when I walked out into the wind at the other end of the trip, but those pins have to be more dangerous than the little sewing sharps (which I carry on in my wooden needle case, with no problem). Laura Dickerson _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 11:00:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BF0XHP020674 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:00:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BEwp0P010677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:58:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BEwo8G013678; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:58:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21411.mail.yahoo.com (web21411.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6BEwl8G013638 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:58:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030711145844.30055.qmail@web21411.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.14.95] by web21411.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:58:44 PDT Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:58:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F0E23CA.3040208@dandy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- michael tartaglio wrote: > Hi. Of course, as if to contradict all of the > evidence presented by the > many women on this list, as well as others, one of > the ads for the movie > presented the female lead stating "Oh, you like > pain, do you? Try > wearing a corset." Is there a little character for > a sneer on my > keyboard? Mike T. mike, i can top the sneer....about 7 of us, plus my son went to see this on wednesday-half of us dressed up and amused the other people at the theater by answering questions on 'pirates' and clothing and when that scene came up, the three women who wear them said the line, followed by "NOT!" had fun telling the children that no, corsets don't hurt unless they fit wrong. :-P Angharat, planning on doing the same to League of Extraordinary Gentlemen tonight :-) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 11:08:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BF8JHP020699 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:08:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BF5H0P011560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:05:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BF5F8G018023; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:05:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.mackie.com (mail2.mackie.com [12.144.237.152]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BF5B8G017962 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:05:11 -0600 (MDT) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:46:06 -0700 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Thread-Index: AcNHuakjQcWbF7jsTjK+SIW+ytTaTgAAVADQ From: "Colleen McDonald" To: "Historical Costume" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6BF5B8G017962 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO <> Drea, it's a darn good thing I just swallowed my drink when I read this! LOL! The image is right on and I have been there, too. Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 11:23:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BFNgHP020717 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:23:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BFLv0P013367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:21:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BFLu8G029951; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:21:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BFLp8G029845 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:21:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.6b.151f5648 (16098) for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:21:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-d14.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.130]) by air-id11.mx.aol.com (v94.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID112-3ee23f0ed5fef6; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:21:34 -0400 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:21:34 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: RE: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <71BB5A01.0455A257.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >"Mine! It's all Mine!">> Heh. :) It must be the Scots-Irish in me, but my triumphal dance only comes out when I get that book on ILL, or long-term loan from U of Chi. Constance "Honey, I've got a 50% off coupon, let's buy a bolt of linen" Fairfax _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 11:28:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BFSvHP020744 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:28:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BFR20P013944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:27:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BFR28G003505; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BFQw8G003453 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:26:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-001scfairp0176.dialsprint.net ([63.184.192.176] helo=faucet.net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19aznV-0005eG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:26:58 -0700 Message-ID: <3F0EE4D4.9010109@faucet.net> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:24:52 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope plus period corsets References: <20030710095627.Y24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drea, thanks so much for sharing all of this with us as you go along. I can see a bent-rope farthingale in my future. (I've been wanting to make a new one but was a bit lost as to how to make it more period without using something that was either really heavy or too brittle.) What is the diameter of the finished rope? How much reed do you need to make enough for the whole farthingale? What is artificial sinew and where do I get some? (Or would you use something else if you did it again?) How much sinew will I need? Speaking of more-period underpinnings, I've also been toying with the idea of a new corset. Though mine works perfectly well, it's boned with steel. I've thought about bents, but the end product isn't washable, is it? The hemp cord version seems a little curvy for 1575 Elizabethan (and no one has come up with any solid evidence for it, as far as I know). Any thoughts? Thanks, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 11:36:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BFaiHP020759 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:36:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BFZ00P014834 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:35:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BFYx8G009179; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:34:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [66.136.30.169]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BFYt8G009130 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:34:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from escom.antek [192.168.0.151] by web.antekhou.com (SMTPD32-8.00) id A91E165A0112; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:34:54 -0500 Received: From 74w0d01 ([65.45.18.250]) by escom.antek (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 105793769465; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:34:54 -0500 Message-ID: <00cd01c347bd$ce926ec0$1d64a8c0@algx> From: "Cyn Bucheger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030710095627.Y24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> <3F0EE4D4.9010109@faucet.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope plus period corsets Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:05:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Speaking of more-period underpinnings, I've also been toying with the > idea of a new corset. Though mine works perfectly well, it's boned with > steel. I've thought about bents, but the end product isn't washable, is > it? The hemp cord version seems a little curvy for 1575 Elizabethan > (and no one has come up with any solid evidence for it, as far as I > know). Any thoughts? I've used broom straw from a craft broom for a corset and it is quite comfortable and stiff, lots to hold in so it is strong, and when I think it needs more than an airing, I put it on a plastic hanger and give it a shower, then let hang dry in the bathroom. It's done fine. Cyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 11:38:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BFbpHP020762 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:38:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BFZb0P014919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:35:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BFZb8G009665; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:35:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BFZV8G009599 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:35:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from karen (CPE-65-26-82-7.kc.rr.com [65.26.82.7]) h6BFZTKd027657 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:35:29 -0500 (CDT) From: "Talia" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope plus period corsets Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:35:12 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <3F0EE4D4.9010109@faucet.net> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Haven't read all the messages in this thread, but I just had an idea for those of you that do corsets...has anyone tried ABS or Kydex plastic as boning in their corset? It's the heat-moldable plastic that some fighters use in their armor. I've got formed Kydex vambraces (forearms) in my armor. Had them for eight years and they're still going strong without deformation. I would think that boning cut and heat-bent to the proper shape would work wonderfully for corsets, plus it would be incredibly washable. It is after all plastic. The nice thing is that it can be cut with a $6 cutting tool, and heated in your kitchen oven to be bent. Depending on how much stiffness you want, you could use thicker or thinner plastic. My armor pieces are 3/8" to 1/4" thick and they don't bend at all, even under a heavy blow. Talia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 11:53:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BFrOHP020816 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:53:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BFpc0P016634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:51:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BFpY8G021215; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:51:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BFpR8G021060 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:51:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-237-231.client.attbi.com[12.246.237.231](untrusted sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2003071115512101400lsj7se>; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:51:22 +0000 Message-ID: <3F0EDCFE.8030300@fenris.net> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:51:26 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] italian hat question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Has anyone seen a hat like this other than in Vecellio? http://www.costumes.org/history/broderbund/boo/BOO50281.gif liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 12:14:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGEaHP020909 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:14:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGCm0P019014 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:12:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGCfH9006356; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:12:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGCcH9006319 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:12:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (adsl-67-124-118-50.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [67.124.118.50])h6BGCYe3024267 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:12:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030711090212.00b2ece0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:10:11 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] US Airline restrictions - sewing stuff (?) In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030710102420.00e2c100@mail.frys.com> References: <5EA74AC2.2F048A84.349D0FDF@cs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:25 AM 7/10/2003 -0700, Kayta wrote: >>I'm making a coast-to-coast run this weekend with fairly long layovers & >>I'd like to get some hemming/handwork finished. Since 9/11, I know some >>of my coworkers have had their manicure set scissors taken away. >> >>I want to be completely on the up-and-up, but I also don't want to be >>bored out of my skull. Have any of you traveled in the US lately with >>sewing implements? Are needles (little sharps) ok? How about snips? I >>assume ghingers are still out. I can imagine trying to get through with a >>set of pinking shears. :) > >I saw an ad, in a recent needlework catalog, for those Clover round >medallions that are really thread cutters, and the ad said it was OK for >airline travel. They are. I have 3 (people give them to me as gifts), and always take one along with me and my needlework when I fly. The only question I've ever gotten was from a security guard who wanted to know where she could get one (answer: any fabric store, including JoAnn's and Hancock's). I don't wear it unless I'm working on my needlework; instead, it lives in my smallest needlework box and goes in my purse and through the baggage scanner when I go through the security checkpoint. I've also taken entire assembled embroidery frames with several needles stuck through them as carry-on (the most recent one is 12X18") and not had any problems. As I don't knit, I can't comment on knitting needles, but I know that crochet hooks are also not a problem, having traveled with them several times recently. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 12:15:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGFRHP020915 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:15:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGDl0P019147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:13:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGDgH9007157; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:13:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from SRVNODE7.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6BGDdH9007071 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:13:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by SRVNODE7.cho.org; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:13:24 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002901c3476a$cd704ba0$0f1077d8@pavilion> References: <20030710162150.K24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> <002901c3476a$cd704ba0$0f1077d8@pavilion> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:16:40 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Very cool; I wish my French wasn't so rusty. Are those her hanging sleeves tied behind her? LynnD >Here's another image I recently ran across ........ >http://www.threadneedlest.com/Bulletinboard.htm French 1567 according to >Dress and Undress, Ahistory of Women's Underware. Elizabeth Ewing > >Lisa > -- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 12:16:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGGrHP020924 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:16:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGFD0P019317 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:15:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGFBH9008180; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:15:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGF6H9008088 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:15:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22792 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:39:51 -0500 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:39:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Upcoming lectures X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Since people have asked me to keep them posted, here's the status of my lecture schedule for the rest of 2003. Seattle, August 9. Full-day lecture series. Just a few seats left; for information, see http://www.runway.net/a/netherton/ or send questions to Colleen McDonald at colleen.mcdonald@comcast.net . Denver, October 18. SCA event, Known World Costume Symposium. On Saturday I'll be doing a 2-hour set on the Gothic Fitted Dress and the Greenland Gored Gown, as well as a lecture on the influence of the Victorians on our understanding of medieval costume. On Sunday I'll be doing some sort of informal GFD fitting demonstration open to observers (note: NOT a formal workshop/class); we're still ironing out the details. For information on the event, see http://www.caerthe.org/kwcs/ . Boston, Nov. 8. Full-day lecture series. About a dozen seats left; for information, contact Laura Dickerson at lauradi7@hotmail.com . --Robin http://www.netherton.net/robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 12:33:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGXcHP021054 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:33:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGVq0P021478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:31:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGVkH9020121; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:31:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGVfH9020076 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:31:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail21.ureach.com (mail21.ureach.com [172.16.2.81]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17832 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:31:41 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-223-181.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.223.181]) by mail21.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA06674 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:31:41 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c347c9$5beb6d20$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <146.152fd94c.2c402248@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:27:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am trying to get better about that. Between my costuming books and my husband's heraldry books, we have been spending hundreds a month on books.... not to mention the problem of having places to put them! I did get rewarded for my patience however. Last weekend we celebrated my birthday early because we were visiting family. I received Janet Arnold's 1560-1620 and Medieval Tailor's Assistant as well as gift cards for Michaels and Joanns.... they know me well. :) Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish > In a message dated 7/11/2003 9:04:53 AM Central Standard Time, > bkessinger@ureach.com writes: > > > Oooh! That book is on my wishlist for my birthday. Thanks! > > > > Does anybody find that they have no willpower for books on wishlists? I just > find that anything I try to put on my "I'll get it on my day>!" ends up being gotten about 5 seconds later due to the whole Book > Instant Gratification Need? Or am I just a big spoiled baby? > > -Sarra Wryght > Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html > Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 12:36:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGa4HP021064 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:36:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGYA0P021789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:34:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGY8H9021770; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:34:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGY5H9021702 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:34:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip110.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.110]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDE506AB1C for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:34:03 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:33:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: fitting a GFD/cotte Message-ID: <3F0E8487.9248.1E395CA6@localhost> Priority: normal References: <20030711135044.75566.qmail@web40907.mail.yahoo.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I bought a ton of linen cheap on clearance at Jo-Ann's once -- some > people here will remember the infamous fuchsia linen discussion, as a > bunch of us on the list found the same stuff at our local stores, all > at the same time. That's now my fitting stash. Oh, I remember that find clearly. I think I'm finally nearly out of the fuchsia linen. Only one length of it left. And linen isn't the only fabric to crawl like that. I've been working with an interesting piece of 100% silk that does it too. It's a plain weave with perhaps a bit of a taffeta accentuation to it (although it's not a true taffeta). I've had to do all sorts of things just to cut it out on grain and instead of being able to sew the decorations on it (as it's a Byzantine), I'm having to do them *all* by hand. It has really slowed things down. I've even had to pull out some of the handsewing where the fabric was not lying quite on grain when I laid the decorative patches on it for positioning. I think it would have made a great GFD! Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 12:36:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGaQHP021068 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:36:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGYT0P021867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:34:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGYSH9022096; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:34:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGY8H9021751 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:34:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip110.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.110]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F3D46AAC7 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:34:05 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:33:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope Message-ID: <3F0E8487.28392.1E395B8C@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <002901c3476a$cd704ba0$0f1077d8@pavilion> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hmmm is that a 'low' neckline or a doublet she's wearing for her > bodice? Looks like a doublet to me, along the line of one of the Mary Queen of Scots portraits which has a line high across the top of the chest as decoration with slashing below it. > > Cass :) > > > Here's another image I recently ran across ........ > > http://www.threadneedlest.com/Bulletinboard.htm French 1567 > > according to Dress and Undress, Ahistory of Women's Underware. > > Elizabeth Ewing Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 12:36:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGaSHP021071 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:36:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGYe0P021900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:34:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGYdH9022208; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:34:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGY8H9021772 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:34:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip110.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.110]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BE7C6AD39 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:34:07 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:33:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Message-ID: <3F0E8487.9881.1E395DAF@localhost> Priority: normal References: <146.152fd94c.2c402248@aol.com> In-reply-to: <20030711103233.Y45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > No, sister, you're a member of the Ancient and Sacred Order of > Bibliophiles. :) There is nothing as exhilarating as recieving a rare > costume book in the mail and then spending a good 15 minutes leaping > about the living room with it clutched to your chest, crowing "Mine! > It's all Mine!" Usually closely followed at my house by "Here! Take a look at this!" as the book gets passed around to everyone else who hasn't had the good sense to run from the room as the fervor hits. (It's best to do this in a group of stitchers, not when the squires or blacksmithing crew has just come in.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 12:36:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGaxHP021080 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:36:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGYm0P021949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:34:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGYlH9022302; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:34:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGY4H9021675 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:34:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip110.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.110]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E1C46AB33 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:34:01 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:33:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Message-ID: <3F0E8486.16980.1E395A73@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <003001c347af$6b038eb0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Do you have some references I could check to see the proper way to > finish seams? I am sadly ignorant of how to do many of the techniques > mentioned in this thread. I know how to french seam, but I usually > just serge. I would prefer to do something more appropriate. The best reference depends on your time period. For early periods the best books are in archeology. _Textiles in Archeology_ by John Peter Wild is a good place to start. Margrethe Hald's _Ancient Textiles from Bogs and Burials_ is also good. I don't know if you can get it but "An 11th C shirt from Viborg Sonderso, Denmark" by Mytte Fentz in _Archaeological Textile in Northern Europe- Report from the 4th NESAT Symposium_ (Ed. by Lise Bender Jorgensen and Elizabeth Muncksgaard) (pages 83-92) is another good one. For more middle periods, the MOL book _Clothing and Textiles c1150- 1450_ by Elizabeth Crowfoot (the book mentioned by Constance Fairfax), Frances Pritchard and kay Staniland is good. For 16th C, Janet Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion: 1560-1620_. For 17th and 18th C, _Historical Fashion in Detail_ by Avril Hart and Susan North is ok (although it primarily looks at the outside, but you can still get some ideas of how things were stitched) and _Rural Pennsylvania Clothing_ by Ellen J. Gehret (if you can find a copy of it) are sources. After that, there are slews of books on stitching from those time periods in books for "Ladies". You can even find Dover reprints of them often times. And of course there are the various incarnations of Therese deDillmont's work (which J&P Coats and DMC, etc seem to have used liberally with/without the deDillmont attribution.) The best modern book on the subject is Claire B. Shaeffer's _Couture Sewing Techniques_. Hope this gives you an idea of where to start at least. They don't always have "how to's" but rather show the techniques (sometimes as they are actually showing some other detail.) It really pays to look at the photographs as well as their interpretations, since they may show a technique in a photograph where they are interpreting other aspects of the photograph. If you find stuff like this for before 1600 that I haven't mentioned, please let me know as I'm always in search of more material (especially if it is textile archeology based.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 12:48:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGmlHP021181 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:48:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGl60P023683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:47:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGl0H9001605; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:47:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGkuH9001520 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:46:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.17d.1dd3921f (16930) for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:46:48 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <17d.1dd3921f.2c4043f8@aol.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:46:48 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/11/03 12:37:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kat@grendal.rain.com writes: > Usually closely followed at my house by "Here! Take a look at this!" > as the book gets passed around to everyone else who hasn't had the > good sense to run from the room as the fervor hits. (It's best to do > this in a group of stitchers, not when the squires or blacksmithing > crew has just come in.) Which is followed closely at my house by "Christine! For god's sakes stop shaking that book at me!" from either mom or dad. Which is then followed by an indulgent smile from them as I run upstairs hugging the book. Literally. (and yes, the "It's mine, it's mine!" applies here) Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 12:57:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGvGHP021230 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:57:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGtV0P024639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:55:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGtODF007570; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:55:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law15-f16.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.23.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGtBDF007291 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:55:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:55:05 -0700 Received: from 141.154.75.98 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:55:04 GMT X-Originating-IP: [141.154.75.98] X-Originating-Email: [lauradi7@hotmail.com] From: "Laura Dickerson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:55:04 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2003 16:55:05.0213 (UTC) FILETIME=[2D677AD0:01C347CD] Subject: [h-cost] film costumes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How do you search to find film costumes on ebay? feeling ignorant, Laura Dickerson _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 13:00:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BH0AHP021258 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:00:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGwY0P024985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:58:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGwX7Q009974; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:58:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6BGwS7Q009899 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:58:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 44178 invoked by uid 1005); 11 Jul 2003 16:58:20 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.241558 secs); 11 Jul 2003 16:58:20 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.241558 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 2003 16:58:20 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:58:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope plus period corsets In-Reply-To: <3F0EE4D4.9010109@faucet.net> Message-ID: <20030711113421.B45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > What is the diameter of the finished rope? How much reed do you need to > make enough for the whole farthingale? What is artificial sinew and > where do I get some? (Or would you use something else if you did it > again?) How much sinew will I need? The finished rope, which includes 20 pieces of 1.5mm bent (#0 round reed), is between 1/2 and 5/8 inches in diameter. I bought the reed in 1 lb bundles from a basketry supply place; each bundle contains about 2000 feet of reed. I'm about 3/4 of the way through the first bundle, and have 15 yds of bent rope completed. I'm estimating that one bundle will do about 20 yards. Artificial sinew can be found at hobby shops & (I think) jewelry supply catalogs...I got mine from hubby's archery supply catalog. It comes in a big bundle. I don't have any documentation for using sinew specifically...but it works really well, as the wax coating makes it slightly sticky and helps it not shift when wrapped. The 15 yards I've wrapped so far has used up about 1/2 a spool. > > Speaking of more-period underpinnings, I've also been toying with the > idea of a new corset. Though mine works perfectly well, it's boned with > steel. I've thought about bents, but the end product isn't washable, is > it? The hemp cord version seems a little curvy for 1575 Elizabethan > (and no one has come up with any solid evidence for it, as far as I > know). Any thoughts? Go for the reed, baby! :) It's not washable...but once you experience the comfort of a reed-boned corset, you'll never go back. I've had a reed corset that I've worn for more than a year. Laying it out in the sun for an afternoon is usually enough to get any odor out of it. Because all of the materials are so breathable, scent doesn't linger. If washability's important, I'd recomment narrow artificial whalebone, instead. Much heavier and less breathable, but still more comfy than steel. Drea > > Thanks, > Melanie Schuessler > http://www.faucet.net/costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 13:01:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BH11HP021263 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:01:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGxE0P025072 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:59:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGxB7Q010430; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:59:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BGwf7Q010009 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:58:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1df.d1addf4 (3932) for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:58:32 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <1df.d1addf4.2c4046b8@aol.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:58:32 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/11/2003 9:35:14 AM Central Standard Time, drea@nospam writes: > No, sister, you're a member of the Ancient and Sacred Order of > Bibliophiles. :) There is nothing as exhilarating as recieving a rare > costume book in the mail and then spending a good 15 minutes leaping > about the living room with it clutched to your chest, crowing "Mine! > It's all Mine!" > It's freakin' Xmas when ya see that beautiful, glorious, big brown truck comin' down the street.....or the white one with the Holy Words "Fed Ex".... or you see your beloved mail guy, with the hint of manilla peeking forth from his bag, or with, better yet, the Sign-o-Thingy..... I love the brown truck, with it's glossy chocolate exterior...it always comes between 5 and 6..... Here, some people might not know this link: http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/lace.html It has some costume-y goodness as well as lace, and nifty embroidery, too. -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 13:20:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHJxHP021323 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:20:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHIH0P027292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:18:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHIB7Q024907; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:18:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHI77Q024857 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:18:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net ([67.124.118.50]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HHV008LCENEVX@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:16:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:14:03 -0700 From: Dawn Jacobson In-reply-to: <20030710162150.K24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030711100228.00bc5008@pop.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Bents, reeds, and corset questions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drea-- All this discussion of rope from bents, effigy corsets, etc., has gotten me thinking: Have you ever tried using reeds from bulrushes (Scirpus spp) or cattails (typha spp) for anything? I'm curious, as I have a virtually inexhaustible supply of free materials, if I just go out and gather them. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 13:23:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHNsHP021349 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:23:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHMH0P027680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:22:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHMG7Q027513; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:22:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHME7Q027498 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:22:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h6BHMDSH001626 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:22:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.62] (tnt-1-126.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.62]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHM6jN001446 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:22:09 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <080f01c3474b$3d3998d0$31baee0c@c59303a> References: <3F0DAD91.5091.1AF1ADC9@localhost> <080f01c3474b$3d3998d0$31baee0c@c59303a> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:29:53 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 8:24 PM -0500 7/10/03, chiara wrote: >Then I guess the question then I have is this: > >What is the seam finish and dates with them do we have? > >hand pressed: >hand pressed and whipped stitched: >frenched: >flat felled: >mock flat felled: >pinked: >hemmed: >sergred: >Others: > >Chiara I collated together information on seam types, including "finishes" up through the medieval period in an article entitled "Archaeological Sewing". There's a copy of the text only at -- I put a copy with the figures in the files section of the authentic-SCA yahoo-groups list, but now that yahoo changed the location of graphics files, the figure links won't work so it isn't much better than the plain text version. One of these days when I have my own web site I'll make the full version available again. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 13:30:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHUEHP021358 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:30:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHSO0P028564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:28:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHSI7Q002019; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:28:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6BHSB7Q001892 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:28:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 90993 invoked by uid 1005); 11 Jul 2003 17:28:03 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.070071 secs); 11 Jul 2003 17:28:03 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.070071 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 2003 17:28:02 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:28:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bents, reeds, and corset questions In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030711100228.00bc5008@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030711132801.G45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hm, no...what diameter are they? Drea On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Dawn Jacobson wrote: > Drea-- > > All this discussion of rope from bents, effigy corsets, etc., has gotten me > thinking: Have you ever tried using reeds from bulrushes (Scirpus spp) or > cattails (typha spp) for anything? > > I'm curious, as I have a virtually inexhaustible supply of free materials, > if I just go out and gather them. > > Dawn > > Dawn Jacobson > Vallejo, CA, USA > > Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 13:30:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHUmHP021373 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:30:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHTA0P028676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:29:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHT57Q002563; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:29:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHT27Q002459 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:29:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp456786pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net[68.51.39.237](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <200307111728560160021q2ae>; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:28:56 +0000 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:27:59 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Allison Pace To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200307111459.h6BExA8H013930@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <04B87AC4-B3C5-11D7-A02B-000393D446D6@comcast.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [h-cost] Re: fitting a GFD/cotte X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, Robin and Tasha! When I can find someone around here I trust to help fit me, I finally feel secure in knowing how to go about it. Allison _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 13:31:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHVKHP021379 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:31:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHTX0P028731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:29:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHTR7Q002853; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:29:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHTP7Q002825 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:29:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asv9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (asv9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.30]) by mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HHV00J3YF90E9@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:29:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optonline.net (ool-18bde58e.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.229.142]) h6BHTKZW018513 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:29:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:29:28 -0400 From: "J.A.Urbik" Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bentrope To: Historical Costume Message-id: <3F0EF3F8.4C5EEE91@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <20030711091749.L45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> <000f01c347b4$5b4f12a0$590577d8@pavilion> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can someone who knows the language translate the writing? I am curious, but since I last took french about 16 years ago i am LOST. Though I did spend the morning trying to teach equations to summer school creole speakers if that has any impact on french :> jordana Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > The picture comes from Dress and Undress, A History of Women's Underwear by > Elizabeth Ewing, Drama Book Specialists (Publishers) New York, 1978 - I'd > wouldn't spend money on this one, a library lend is all that it's worth. > But I don't recall seeing this image before. > > Lisa > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Drea Leed" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 6:23 AM > Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding > bent rope > > > Cool pic!! OK, another book I have to hunt up...you wouldn't happen to > > have the source for this picture available? > > > > You know, I'm not sure that this on /is/ a farthingale, rather than a > > welted kirtle skirt. Look at the way the bottom edge ripples, and how the > > side-on view of the edge of the welts is completely flat. > > > > Thanks for the picture, > > > > Drea > > > > > > On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > > > > Here's another image I recently ran across ........ > > > http://www.threadneedlest.com/Bulletinboard.htm French 1567 according > to > > > Dress and Undress, Ahistory of Women's Underware. Elizabeth Ewing > > > > > > Lisa > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Drea Leed" > > > To: "Historical Costume" > > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 2:01 PM > > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oooh, that makes me happy! I'm about to start a corded petticoat, > and > > > > > was dreading sewing those channels. Whipstitching, though, *that* I > can > > > > > do very happily! Though I think I might sew it to the inside of the > > > > > petticoat rather than the outside. > > > > > > > > True. One thing, though--it can be demmed uncomfortable trying to sit > in > > > > a petticoat corded on the inside, depending on the size of the > cording. :) > > > > > > > > I'm looking forward to seeing how the bands of contrasting color look > on > > > > the outside, once I'm done. > > > > > > > > Let me know how yours works...we can compare. > > > > > > > > I've been thinking about exactly what evidence we have, from period > > > > sources, about how farthingales were stiffened. > > > > > > > > *We have the name: verdugado, or "sapling-guard", an indication that > > > > they were made of wood (or willow withies, or osiers) and sewn as > "guards" > > > > onto skirts. > > > > > > > > *We have pictures of farthingales from late 15th c. spain, that > clearly > > > > have round hoops fastened to the outside of the skirt at various > points > > > > along the length of the skirt, covered with fabric. > > > > (http://costume.dm.net/farthingale/images/salome.gif) > > > > > > > > *We have Alcega's pattern for the shape of the skirt, but > unfortunately he > > > > says nothing about how the willow bents are to be attached to this > item. > > > > (http://costume.dm.net/images/alcega.gif) > > > > > > > > *We have written references to farthingales stiffened with bent rope > and > > > > whalebone in 1560s and 1570s england. Again, no details about how they > > > > were sewn on. Also, references to "styffeninge" farthingales, by some > > > > unknown method. (starch? adding more bent?) and references to covering > > > > bent rope with fabric. All from Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts. > > > > > > > > *We have a depiction of a "spanish apron", which bears a striking > > > > resemblance to a farthingale sliced up the front with padding around > the > > > > hips. > (http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/farthingale/spanishapron.jpg) > > > > > > > > *We have a picture of a Spanish lady in Morocco wearing > > > > a farthingale stiffened with a semi-stiff material, sewn into what > looks > > > > like tucked channels, dated from 1545. > > > > (http://costume.dm.net/farthingale/images/rope-farth1545-sm.gif) > > > > > > > > *We have various pictures (such as the italian woman aforementioned, > the > > > > woodcut of Queen Elizabeth out hunting, and others) which could > possibly > > > > show farthingales worn under skirts...though this isn't certain. > > > > (http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/pages/f103R.html), and > > > > (http://costume.dm.net/gallery/images/lizpic1.gif) > > > > > > > > *We have a picture showing the back side of a french woman that > reveals > > > > the bottom edge of her farthingale underneath her skirt, revealing a > hoop > > > > along the bottom edge. > > > > > > > > And that's it, really. All other information that I've found has been > > > > interpretations based on the above facts, including Arnold's > recreation of > > > > the alcega farthingale by sewing separate wood hoops into tucks, and > > > > comments by the authors of all other major costume history works. > > > > > > > > There's really precious little out there. One picture supports the > > > > idea that the stiffening material was sewn into tucks; two others > > > > support the idea that they were sewn on as separate rings around the > > > > skirt, and then covered with fabric. One picture suggests that the > > > > rope was applied as a spiral on the outside of the skirt. All 16th c. > pics > > > > of what we interpret to be farthingales show the stiffening applied in > > > > rows much closer than the 5 or 6 rows that most recreated farthingales > > > display. > > > > > > > > We don't even know much about exactly what was used for stiffening. > The > > > > name suggests willow osiers, the 1545 picture suggests rope or rag or > some > > > > non-stiff material, and Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts suggest > bent-rope. > > > > There's no indication that hoops were sewn on the inner side of the > > > > farthingale, or rope sewn on tucks on the inner side of the > farthingale. > > > > Though given the dearth of evidence, it's entirely possible this was > done > > > > as well. > > > > > > > > Just thinking out loud... > > > > > > > > Drea > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > h-costume mailing list > > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 13:38:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHcOHP021423 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:38:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHaJ0P029482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:36:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHaD7Q008337; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:36:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHa87Q008289 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:36:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asv4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (asv4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.153]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:36:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optonline.net (ool-18bde58e.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.229.142]) h6BHZv5h003789 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:35:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:36:10 -0400 From: "J.A.Urbik" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish To: Historical Costume Message-id: <3F0EF58A.A0D9055@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <20030711093539.B45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is very much not primary sourse, but Mistresss Thorkatla (mka Katheryn Nikolich) in a booklet on "The Greenland Gowns" says on p.14 "Gowns were sewn with some form of french seam(1) to prolong wear, or less frequently, some were lined" "(1) see back cover for sample of french seam on the front and sideseams" Unforunetly, even though the book is very informative (and I would welcome anyone's constuctive comments on it) that illustration is, due to copying, quite unclear. jordana Drea Leed wrote: > > The Museum of London's "Textiles and Clothing" book has some good > demonstrations of various medieval finishes used. > > Drea > > On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Beteena Paradise wrote: > > > Do you have some references I could check to see the proper way to finish > > seams? I am sadly ignorant of how to do many of the techniques mentioned in > > this thread. I know how to french seam, but I usually just serge. I would > > prefer to do something more appropriate. > > > > Teena > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 9:16 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish > > > > > > > > > > > I > > > > talked to the entrant later about other construction techniques and > > > > the entrant agreed the frenching (unneccessary for this fabric) caused > > > > the problems with the gore. Someone had told the entrant that it was > > > > proper to french those seams and if she did not she would lose points. > > > > > > Did they show the person any documentation that frenching was period > > > to begin with? I haven't found documentation for it until quite a bit > > > past the usual "pre17thC" period. I've found felled seams, mock > > > felled seams, overcast edges (which to me can take the place of > > > "serging") and the like, but I've never found french seams. > > > > > > > *I* have also had people ask me "how did you finish that seam" - my > > > > reply is usually, "I ironed it flat" and occasionally, "I ironed it > > > > flat and fulled" The last time, the asker replied with a disappointed > > > > "Oh. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk." I haven't had any problem with the unfinished > > > > seams of linen shirts raveling...or wool dresses. > > > > > > I've found a lot of problems with linen ravelling like crazy. In > > > fact, I know some people who won't make things with linen because > > > they say that they hate the way it ravels and can't afford a serger. > > > > > > In terms of wool, it depends on how well fulled it is. Fulling it > > > sufficiently *is* a form of seam finish. > > > > > > > Certainly, there are instances that you'd want to finish a seam - if > > > > there's high stress, if you're using old or fine silk, etc...but WOOL > > > > on a non-stressed seam? And, if you must finish the seam, why not do > > > > it in a more documentable way? Is this a "serger mentality"? > > > > > > I don't think it's "serger mentality" since most of the people I hear > > > about it the most from don't even use sergers. > > > > > > I think it is just misinformation. They hear that seams should be > > > appropriately finished, remember the French Seams that someone taught > > > them, and think that that's "appropriate". What they need is > > > *appropriate" information about *appropriate* seam finishing > > > techniques. > > > > > > If I had to finish the seams on a dress with gores, I think that I'd > > > probably use a mock fell. More documentable to more time periods > > > (from early Viking through 14th C through 16th C and on to "early > > > modern" times.) And it's not so bulky! (It's especially helpful for > > > keeping those awful little points at the top of gores from fraying > > > out. > > > > > > Kat > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 13:55:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHtAHP021497 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:55:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHrU0P001533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:53:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHrP7Q019797; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:53:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHrF7Q019621 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:53:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KKlocko@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.145.1536e63b (15864) for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:53:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m05.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.133]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v94.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID63-3df83f0ef98167; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:53:06 -0400 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:53:05 -0400 From: KKlocko@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: fitting a GFD/cotte MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2D18C264.3B9E79B5.0016BF3A@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Thanks, Robin and Tasha! > > When I can find someone around here I trust to help fit me, > I finally feel secure in knowing how to go about it. > Allison Ditto! Thank you very much! --Kathy K. (off to survey stash and select GFD fabric!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 13:55:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHtHHP021500 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:55:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHr90P001489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:53:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHr37Q019544; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:53:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHqx7Q019507 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:52:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB61436996 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19b24o-0002Ms-00 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:52:58 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope In-Reply-To: <20030711092645.L45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> References: <20030711092645.L45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:52:58 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drea wrote: > Ditto Buffy...though, I've found that Austen flicks are the best for > stitching, because you don't need to keep your eyes fixed on the movie to > follow the plot. Entirely agreed. Though if you'd watched Buffy through and through like I have (there are repeats every night, and I own a good chunk of the DVDs) you wouldn't have to watch it to follow the plot either :) Same goes for Blackadder and Red Dwarf, the entirety of which I have on video. My general fallback for sewing is documentaries, though, as they tend to have a fairly high ratio of explanatory speech to visual stuff. And the absolute *worst* thing is anything in a foreign language with subtitles! (Or, as I discovered once when in a mad sewing rush in preparation for Rowany Festival, that season 4 Buffy episode where they all lose their voices and it becomes like a silent movie. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 14:01:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BI1MHP021525 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:01:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHxf0P002301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:59:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHxZph024608; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:59:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHxHph024366 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:59:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net ([67.124.118.50]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HHV008FXGMMVV@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:56:45 -0700 From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: RE: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish In-reply-to: <71BB5A01.0455A257.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030711105250.00bbbe78@pop.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:21 AM 7/11/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >"Mine! It's all Mine!">> > >Heh. :) It must be the Scots-Irish in me, but my triumphal dance only >comes out when I get that book on ILL, or long-term loan from U of Chi. Unfortunately, my local library has a lousy ILL program (sad because I'm only 25 minutes from the Bancroft Library at UC Berkeley), so the postman brings me *lots* of packages. OTOH, I'm buying through abebooks now, so I don't feel so bad (I still wince if a book is more than $50, but it's getting easier--unfortunately!). >Constance "Honey, I've got a 50% off coupon, let's buy a bolt of linen" >Fairfax Bad Constance! I have a 50% off coupon too, and didn't even think of buying linen. Thanks for the idea. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 14:01:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BI1IHP021522 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:01:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHxR0P002260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:59:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHxKph024415; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:59:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHxGph024335 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:59:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24B2836981 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:59:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19b2Ar-0002NS-00 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:59:13 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish In-Reply-To: <20030711103233.Y45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> References: <146.152fd94c.2c402248@aol.com> <20030711103233.Y45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:59:13 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drea wrote: > No, sister, you're a member of the Ancient and Sacred Order of > Bibliophiles. :) There is nothing as exhilarating as recieving a rare > costume book in the mail and then spending a good 15 minutes leaping > about the living room with it clutched to your chest, crowing "Mine! > It's all Mine!" For me the real leaping and dancing happens when I get a really good book on Elizabethan household management, but then I'm strange that way. Suffice it to say that about 100 of the books in the Elizabethan bibliography (http://elizabethangeek.com/biblio/) are straight off my shelves, and that's definitely not the only period I have books on. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 14:14:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BIEMHP021560 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:14:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BICK0P003840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:12:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BIC6ph003871; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:12:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BIBwph003700 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:11:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net ([67.124.118.50]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HHV0076AH7W4B@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:09:33 -0700 From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bents, reeds, and corset questions In-reply-to: <20030711132801.G45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030711110500.02d096e8@pop.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030711100228.00bc5008@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:28 PM 7/11/2003 -0400, Drea wrote: >On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Dawn Jacobson wrote: > > > Drea-- > > > > All this discussion of rope from bents, effigy corsets, etc., has gotten me > > thinking: Have you ever tried using reeds from bulrushes (Scirpus spp) or > > cattails (typha spp) for anything? > > > > I'm curious, as I have a virtually inexhaustible supply of free materials, > > if I just go out and gather them. >Hm, no...what diameter are they? I don't have any on hand, but I believe they're about 5mm diameter. I can go cut a few this afternoon and get accurate measurements. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 14:19:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BIJOHP021587 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:19:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BIHk0P004573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:17:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BIHgph008683; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:17:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BIGYph007234 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:16:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.ea.3ad0775a (15974) for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:16:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-m06.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.134]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (v94.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID101-3e663f0efef0239; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:16:17 -0400 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:16:16 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: RE: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <51B4C786.468AC1F8.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Bad Constance! I have a 50% off coupon too, and didn't even think of buying >linen. Thanks for the idea. > >Dawn Also, about a month ago, I got an email from fabric.com that said they missed me, and here was a 20% off code for my entire order. Well, I immediately went to use it, and our network crashed. The next morning, I went to buy it again, but got interrupted by work (it has been incredibly slow here). Then, I came back that afternoon surprised to find that fabric.com was putting their linen on 30% off - they honored the 30% and then gave me an additional 20% off - I paid about $3.25 a yard (plus they give you 3 inches extra per yard) for that haul, which came in a box that was about 3'x3'. I only have two lengths left, and my family is happy. :) Thank you, IT guys! :) Now I need wool. Constance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 14:30:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BIU1HP021614 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:30:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BISE0P005580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:28:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BISDph016811; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:28:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6BIS7ph016732 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:28:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-66-127-112-202.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@66.127.112.202 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2003 18:28:07 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:27:54 -0700 Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bentrope Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3F0EF3F8.4C5EEE91@optonline.net> Message-Id: <63424573-B3CD-11D7-830C-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 10:29 AM, J.A.Urbik wrote: > Can someone who knows the language translate the writing? I am > curious, > but since I last took french about 16 years ago i am LOST. Though I > did > spend the morning trying to teach equations to summer school creole > speakers if that has any impact on french :> >>>> http://www.threadneedlest.com/Bulletinboard.htm French 1567 >>>> according You know... I'm just going off my extraordinarily rusty French, but I'm assuming it's referring to an English woman. "Angloyse" (that funny "f" thing is an "s" in case anyone is confused) is close enough to "Anglais" to make that assumption, but I know someone will correct me if I'm wrong. ;) Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 14:45:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BIjPHP021653 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:45:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BIhT0P007341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:43:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BIhRph029433; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:43:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.rawbw.com (IDENT:root@shell.rawbw.com [198.144.192.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BIhNph029386 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:43:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (IDENT:hbv@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shell.rawbw.com (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6BIhNa29358 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:43:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:43:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Ho X-X-Sender: hbv@shell.rawbw.com To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030711113623.J25702@shell.rawbw.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Hollywood film costumes shops X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, A recent visit to my Uncle in Canada got us working to put our family tree slowly back together. One of the things that we found out is that I have a great granduncle from my mother side named Tom Gibbons who owned a costume business in Hollywood back in the 30s and 40s and did a lot of busines there, until he retired around the war time. I wonder if anyone here has any connections to the costume business in the Hollywood area who might help find me trace the history of that side of my family...maybe there are still some very old persons in the costumes business still remember my great granduncle by any chance? or see if there are any descendants of his? I don't think searching in any US Government database woudl work...because we are not sure if he ever got US citizenship. -- Vincent B. Ho hbv@tsoft.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 14:50:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BIo5HP021676 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:50:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BIm60P007825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:48:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BIm5ph002715; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:48:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BIm2ph002617 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49](untrusted sender)) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20030711184755016001mlhse>; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:47:55 +0000 Message-ID: <046901c347dc$f6ecb0f0$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] film costumes Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:36:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, for the Disney ones you go to disneyauctions.com and it takes you to their site which in my professional opinion is not done very well at all search wise. The others are buried, you have to know how to manipulated the search parameters to find them. Here is how I do it, everyone else please chime in with your best ways too. go to http://pages.ebay.com/theme/movies.html then go to Movie Costumes and go from there. Otherwise go to the studio and search for the auction links off of them. Some will lead you to their areas on ebay or other auction houses. Sincerely, Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laura Dickerson" To: Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 11:55 AM Subject: [h-cost] film costumes : How do you search to find film costumes on ebay? : : feeling ignorant, : Laura Dickerson : : _________________________________________________________________ : Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* : http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail : : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 14:53:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BIr9HP021682 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:53:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BIpE0P008160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:51:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BIpDph004756; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:51:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BIp4ph004625 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:51:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A7161403B4; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:51:02 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Bents, reeds, and corset questions Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:51:02 -0500 Message-ID: <003a01c347dd$605f51f0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030711110500.02d096e8@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If I recollect correctly, the cattails that grow around here (DFW Texas) are almost flat, or slightly d-shaped and from 3/8th to 3/4ths inches wide-very very light once they are dried tho'; don't know how well they stand up to lateral stresses- i.e. twisting and bending across the lengthwise direction- however they flex nicely if you rotate the ends perpendicular to the length Just a few thoughts. Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Dawn Jacobson Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 1:10 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bents, reeds, and corset questions At 01:28 PM 7/11/2003 -0400, Drea wrote: >On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Dawn Jacobson wrote: > > > Drea-- > > > > All this discussion of rope from bents, effigy corsets, etc., has gotten me > > thinking: Have you ever tried using reeds from bulrushes (Scirpus spp) or > > cattails (typha spp) for anything? > > > > I'm curious, as I have a virtually inexhaustible supply of free materials, > > if I just go out and gather them. >Hm, no...what diameter are they? I don't have any on hand, but I believe they're about 5mm diameter. I can go cut a few this afternoon and get accurate measurements. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 15:04:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJ4KHP021732 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:04:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJ2Y0P009489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:02:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJ2Vq1012845; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:02:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJ2Tq1012808 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:02:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asv18.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (asv18.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.172]) by mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HHV0037RJK4WT@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:02:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optonline.net (ool-18bde58e.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.229.142]) h6BJ1aRP015523 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:01:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:02:31 -0400 From: "J.A.Urbik" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope To: Historical Costume Message-id: <3F0F09C7.2F0A909C@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <20030710224631.S38339-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I guess the only question I would have about something that light is "How well will it hold up heavy skirts"? jordana Drea Leed wrote: > With stiffening like bent rope sewn on the outside, I'll bet the > farthingale material itself can be much lighter, since it doesn't have to > be sturdy enough to hold the boning material stiched > inside tucks. The fabric would act more as a shaped base to keep the > spiral of bent rope in place, rather than the rope working to "hold out" > the skirt to the proper location. > > Happy happy, > > Drea > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 15:11:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJBMHP021746 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:11:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJ9O0P010440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:09:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJ9Mq1018177; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:09:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJ9Iq1018106 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:09:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h6BJ9HSH026430 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.62] (tnt-1-126.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.62]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJ9CjN026296 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:09:14 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:57:41 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6BJ9Iq1018106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 1:13 PM +0100 7/11/03, Kate M Bunting wrote: > >>> mooncat@in-tch.com 07/11/03 11:54am >>> >Lisa Sinervo wrote: >> >> Here's another image I recently ran across ........ > > http://www.threadneedlest.com/Bulletinboard.htm French 1567 >according to > > Dress and Undress, Ahistory of Women's Underware. Elizabeth Ewing >Interesting that they say she's French, when the label says >"L'Angloyse." (English?) >Or is it just the image that's French? >It certainly is an intriguely odd hat style, though....and I'm trying >to >figure out what that knotted piece of fabric is behind her (veil?) >Thanks for sharing! >--sue > >In fact, the verse claims that it's a distinctively English style of >cap! This is fascinating because the picture is clearly closely related to the illustration of "L'angloise" in Francois Deserps' 1562 book, reprinted in facsimile recently as: Deserps, Franois. 2001. The Various Styles of Clothing. James Ford Bell, Minneapolis. ISBN 0-8166-4013-0 It's a French book surveying "costumes of the world". Now, the image at the above web site has a different "frame" and uses a different typeface for the verse, although the verse is identical. But the really weird point comes in with the hat. In the 1562 book, the neckline of the bodice rises in a high standing collar, which the 1567 image on the web site lacks, while having some indecipherable horizontal marking. And in the 1562 image, the woman appears to be wearing a squarish biretta-style cap, which corresponds much better the the description in the verse of "son bonnet carr" (her square bonnet) than the rather odd winged thingie in the 1567 image. Other than the head area, the two images appear to be identical line-for-line. Clearly the same printing plates were being re-used (or carefully copied) with modifications of unknown motivation. Deserps is one of those maddening sources to try to use for research. If you take the images in isolation, you might think that you were really getting eyewitness renditions of "the Persian woman" or "the Basque man". But when you start looking at the collection as a whole, a bit more doubt starts arising -- especially when you get to the images of "the fish-bishop" and "the fish-monk" (I'm not even going to _try_ to describe them) and realize that more than a little pure imagination has gone into the drawings. It's also interesting to see how people use this type of source selectively. You'll commonly see Deserps' images of "the savage of Scotland" and "the savage [Scottish] captain" used to illustrate discussions of 16th century Scottish clothing, quite likely because the match people's notions of what that clothing _ought_ to have looked like. But you almost never see the same discussions including the images of "the Scotsman" and "the Scotswoman" that immediately precede them -- and I suspect this is partly because the clothes portrayed in them are not what people want 16th c. Scottish clothing to have looked like. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 15:11:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJBNHP021747 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:11:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJ9c0P010489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:09:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJ9bq1018351; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:09:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJ9Lq1018167 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:09:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h6BJ9LSH026506 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.62] (tnt-1-126.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.62]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJ9CjP026296 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:09:19 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <146.152fd94c.2c402248@aol.com> References: <146.152fd94c.2c402248@aol.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:01:26 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:23 AM -0400 7/11/03, LoreleiMorte@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 7/11/2003 9:04:53 AM Central Standard Time, >bkessinger@ureach.com writes: > >> Oooh! That book is on my wishlist for my birthday. Thanks! >> > >Does anybody find that they have no willpower for books on wishlists? I just >find that anything I try to put on my "I'll get it on my day>!" ends up being gotten about 5 seconds later due to the whole Book >Instant Gratification Need? Or am I just a big spoiled baby? My friends and family know better than to try to buy me books as presents. If it's a book I'd really like, then by the time it impinges on their radar, I've already owned it for a few years. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 15:11:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJBXHP021752 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:11:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJ9o0P010542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:09:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJ9oq1018480; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:09:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6BJ9Nq1018194 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:09:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 29803 invoked by uid 1005); 11 Jul 2003 19:09:14 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.546795 secs); 11 Jul 2003 19:09:14 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.546795 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 2003 19:09:13 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:09:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bentrope In-Reply-To: <63424573-B3CD-11D7-830C-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> Message-ID: <20030711150649.D45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You know, this woman is almost identical to a woman depicted on a map of Tudor London, at http://lewis.up.edu/efl/asarnow/TudorMapofLondon.html. Interesting... Drea On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Sarah wrote: > > On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 10:29 AM, J.A.Urbik wrote: > > > Can someone who knows the language translate the writing? I am > > curious, > > but since I last took french about 16 years ago i am LOST. Though I > > did > > spend the morning trying to teach equations to summer school creole > > speakers if that has any impact on french :> > >>>> http://www.threadneedlest.com/Bulletinboard.htm French 1567 > >>>> according > > You know... I'm just going off my extraordinarily rusty French, but I'm > assuming it's referring to an English woman. "Angloyse" (that funny > "f" thing is an "s" in case anyone is confused) is close enough to > "Anglais" to make that assumption, but I know someone will correct me > if I'm wrong. ;) > > Sarah > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 15:12:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJCqHP021755 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:12:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJB60P010702 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:11:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJB4q1019420; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:11:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6BJB2q1019386 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 37671 invoked by uid 1005); 11 Jul 2003 19:10:53 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.39916 secs); 11 Jul 2003 19:10:53 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.39916 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 2003 19:10:52 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:10:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope In-Reply-To: <3F0F09C7.2F0A909C@optonline.net> Message-ID: <20030711150939.F45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah, the 10,000 shilling question! :) I'll let you all know, once I finish it. Drea On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, J.A.Urbik wrote: > I guess the only question I would have about something that light is > "How well will it hold up heavy skirts"? > > jordana > > > Drea Leed wrote: > > > With stiffening like bent rope sewn on the outside, I'll bet the > > farthingale material itself can be much lighter, since it doesn't have to > > be sturdy enough to hold the boning material stiched > > inside tucks. The fabric would act more as a shaped base to keep the > > spiral of bent rope in place, rather than the rope working to "hold out" > > the skirt to the proper location. > > > > Happy happy, > > > > Drea > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 15:15:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJFKHP021759 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:15:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJDg0P010981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:13:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJDfq1021364; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:13:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6BJDcq1021306 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:13:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 47579 invoked by uid 1005); 11 Jul 2003 19:13:29 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.104193 secs); 11 Jul 2003 19:13:29 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.104193 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 2003 19:13:29 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:13:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bentrope In-Reply-To: <20030711150649.D45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> Message-ID: <20030711151231.G45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow, and the entire group off of the London map--including the same woman-- is re-depicted in the Civitates Orbis Terrarum of 1572! http://costume.dm.net/mappeople/mappeoplefullsize/london.jpeg Drea On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Drea Leed wrote: > > You know, this woman is almost identical to a woman depicted on a map of > Tudor London, at http://lewis.up.edu/efl/asarnow/TudorMapofLondon.html. > > Interesting... > > Drea > > > On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Sarah wrote: > > > > > On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 10:29 AM, J.A.Urbik wrote: > > > > > Can someone who knows the language translate the writing? I am > > > curious, > > > but since I last took french about 16 years ago i am LOST. Though I > > > did > > > spend the morning trying to teach equations to summer school creole > > > speakers if that has any impact on french :> > > >>>> http://www.threadneedlest.com/Bulletinboard.htm French 1567 > > >>>> according > > > > You know... I'm just going off my extraordinarily rusty French, but I'm > > assuming it's referring to an English woman. "Angloyse" (that funny > > "f" thing is an "s" in case anyone is confused) is close enough to > > "Anglais" to make that assumption, but I know someone will correct me > > if I'm wrong. ;) > > > > Sarah > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 15:23:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJN9HP021773 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:23:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJLS0P011873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:21:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJLRq1027007; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:21:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6BJLOq1026916 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:21:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWgyvfRm7s5wiQ5PBI9kY4nCRBTQ9NxGGEg==">; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:21:10 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H4T3ZWV5; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:21:10 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 03:09:09 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: fitting a GFD/cotte Message-ID: <20030711.030909.-195739.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-4 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO <<>> HA! If you want to deal with crawl, try cutting and sewing silk chiffon. Even with years of sewing experience, the thought of it makes my stomach churn! Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 15:25:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJPaHP021776 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:25:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJNl0P012116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:23:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJNjq1028410; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:23:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BJNaq1028276 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:23:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3D3E51B2546 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:23:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007201c347e1$ea28c520$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <146.152fd94c.2c402248@aol.com><20030711103233.Y45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:23:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirrily Robert" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish > Drea wrote: > > No, sister, you're a member of the Ancient and Sacred Order of > > Bibliophiles. :) There is nothing as exhilarating as recieving a rare > > costume book in the mail and then spending a good 15 minutes leaping > > about the living room with it clutched to your chest, crowing "Mine! > > It's all Mine!" > > For me the real leaping and dancing happens when I get a really good > book on Elizabethan household management Huh. I have that reaction to ANY new book I get! I used to think I had a lot of books--and then I joined the SCA. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 16:13:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BKDPHP021876 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:13:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BKBQ0P017133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:11:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BKBPiF003025; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:11:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BKBKiF002948 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:11:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A9E74AB009E; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:11:19 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A9E64D015A; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:11:18 -0500 Message-ID: <00f401c347e8$eaea1520$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000f01c347ad$3c8b43e0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean-oooh Johnny! Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:13:36 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have been a fan of Johnny's since Don Juan... got the movie and soundtrack. What a romantic movie! My daughter is taking me to the Pirates movie tonight for my birthday. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 16:27:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BKRNHP021901 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:27:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BKPS0P018745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:25:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BKPRiF013345; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:25:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from SRVNODE7.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6BKPNiF013231 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:25:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by SRVNODE7.cho.org; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:25:15 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030711.030909.-195739.0.catpurson@juno.com> References: <20030711.030909.-195739.0.catpurson@juno.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:28:31 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: fitting a GFD/cotte Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I agree. The first I worked with silk chiffon (for a 20's beaded slip dress) I basted the pattern to the fabric and still had a time with the fabric. I was SO afraid of cutting into this very expensive fabric and messing it up. The basting took a lot of time but it cut better than it would have and the dress turned out wonderfully. After the chiffon, the linen wasn't as big a deal any longer. LynnD ><<>> HA! If you >want to deal with crawl, try cutting and sewing silk chiffon. Even with >years of sewing experience, the thought of it makes my stomach churn! > >Lalah >Never give up, Never surrender >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 17:35:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BLYxHP022044 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:35:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BLX30P026113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:33:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BLX1nH002371; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law8-oe57.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.192]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BLWunH002222 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:32:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:32:51 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by law8-oe57.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:32:50 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030710162150.K24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> <002901c3476a$cd704ba0$0f1077d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:33:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2003 21:32:51.0051 (UTC) FILETIME=[FB048BB0:01C347F3] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What's THAT on her head?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 1:10 AM Subject: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope > Here's another image I recently ran across ........ > http://www.threadneedlest.com/Bulletinboard.htm French 1567 according to > Dress and Undress, Ahistory of Women's Underware. Elizabeth Ewing > > Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 17:41:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BLfFHP022054 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:41:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BLdN0P026789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:39:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BLdKnH006856; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:39:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f33.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BLdInH006762 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:39:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:39:13 -0700 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:39:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] X-Originating-Email: [distantdesigns@hotmail.com] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates quote Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:39:12 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2003 21:39:13.0046 (UTC) FILETIME=[DEB45B60:01C347F4] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Hi. Of course, as if to contradict all of the evidence presented by the >many women on this list, as well as others, one of the ads for the movie >presented the female lead stating "Oh, you like pain, do you? Try wearing a >corset." Is there a little character for a sneer on my keyboard? Mike T. I thought that her father had brought her a "New Fashion from London" which I thought explained some initial discomfort. If you had just worn a New corset for however many scenes and hadn't had it custom fitted since it WAS a suprise, might it not have been less than perfect? That was just how I justified it all in my mind so I could go Back to staring. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 17:52:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BLqRHP022079 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:52:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BLnV0P027761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:49:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BLn8nH013831; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:49:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law8-oe34.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BLn0nH013600 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:48:55 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by law8-oe34.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:48:54 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030711091749.L45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> <000f01c347b4$5b4f12a0$590577d8@pavilion> <3F0EF3F8.4C5EEE91@optonline.net> Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bentrope Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:49:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2003 21:48:55.0154 (UTC) FILETIME=[39AAFD20:01C347F6] X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well... it's old French and the pic is not very clear, some letters I just can't make out, but... in modern French it would be something like: L'Angloyse Anisi vtue est une femme Angloise Par le dessus son bonnet est [foutr?fourr?] On la conn (unreadable) [qu'aux lieux on ne la voise] Facilement son bonnet carr. An Angloise lady is dressed like this Her bonnet is (stuffed?) from the top (and then I'm not sure what it is, but it sounds like: "you can recognize her easily because of her square bonnet") Sorry I can't do any better. I might be a native French speaker, but I'm not a student of old languages :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.A.Urbik" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 1:29 PM Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bentrope > Can someone who knows the language translate the writing? I am curious, > but since I last took french about 16 years ago i am LOST. Though I did > spend the morning trying to teach equations to summer school creole > speakers if that has any impact on french :> > > jordana > > > > > Here's another image I recently ran across ........ > > > > http://www.threadneedlest.com/Bulletinboard.htm French 1567 according > > to > > > > Dress and Undress, Ahistory of Women's Underware. Elizabeth Ewing > > > > > > > > Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 18:57:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BMvTHP022188 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:57:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BMsK0P004521 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:54:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BMsIkX027539; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:54:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BMsFkX027509 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:54:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9571A36966 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19b6mM-0002eh-00 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:54:14 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bentrope In-Reply-To: <20030711151231.G45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> References: <20030711150649.D45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> <20030711151231.G45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:54:14 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drea wrote: > Wow, and the entire group off of the London map--including the same > woman-- is re-depicted in the Civitates Orbis Terrarum of 1572! > > http://costume.dm.net/mappeople/mappeoplefullsize/london.jpeg Is that a muff hanging in front? K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 19:12:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BNCdHP022225 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:12:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BNAi0P006144 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:10:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BNAhcP008071; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:10:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BNAecP008044 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:10:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h6BNAdSH003851 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.5] (tnt-1-69.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.5]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BNAOjR003533 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3F0EF3F8.4C5EEE91@optonline.net> References: <20030711091749.L45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> <000f01c347b4$5b4f12a0$590577d8@pavilion> <3F0EF3F8.4C5EEE91@optonline.net> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:06:38 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bentrope Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6BNAecP008044 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 1:29 PM -0400 7/11/03, J.A.Urbik wrote: >Can someone who knows the language translate the writing? I am curious, >but since I last took french about 16 years ago i am LOST. Though I did >spend the morning trying to teach equations to summer school creole >speakers if that has any impact on french :> Do you mean the verse on the 1567 print? Pardon me for a moment while I take off on a tangential rant that has nothing to do with you specifically. It seems like in the last couple of months _every_ list I'm on has slipped into lots of top-posting and lack of trimming of previous material. When someone asks for a clarification about an existing post, it can be almost impossible to tell what's being asked for when the post includes the last eight or nine layers of postings with no editing. I'm having more and more problems trying to follow the thread of conversations when responses just sit there at the top of the screen without any carefully selected context to show what they're replying to. I'm not anybody with any authority to tell anyone how to post -- I'm just a pathetic little reader trying desperately to follow the conversations without having to bounce up and down the scroll-window to figure out what somebody's "Yes -- I absolutely agree with you!" is actually agreeing with. up is not it. practice, and bottom in standard English to reading text There's a normal order Thank you for letting me get that out of my system. The verse as given in Deserps (1562), which is identical to the one on the 1567 print, is: L'angloise Ainsi vestue est une femme Angloise, Par le dedans son bonnet est fourr On la cognoist (bien qu'au lieux on ne voise) Facilement son bonnet carr. Which is given in modern translation as: The English woman An English woman dresses like this, The inside of her bonnet is lined with fur, She is easily recognizable (even in foreign places) By her square bonnet. Most of the verses are even more content-free, being variations of the theme of "this is what the people of such-and-such a place really wear -- you can believe me although it seems strange". An example is the illustration of "Le sauvage en pompe" (the savage on display -- no particular location is specified): When the savage is boasting or displaying, He is suitably dressed like this. If you are afraid that this portrait deceives you, Go to these places to see his clothes. Or for "the Flemish woman" This portrait is made with the intention of Showing a true-to-life Flemish woman. If you do not go to these places: her clothing, Is represented here in great detail. Much less commonly, the verses mention specifics of the picture, as for the "woman of Brabant": The woman of Brabant has a stiff manner here, In this portrait which is simply composed, Her outfit has a tucked up train, And her coiffure is like starched linen. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 19:12:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BNCoHP022229 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:12:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BNAw0P006173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:10:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BNAwcP008249; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:10:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BNAicP008088 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:10:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h6BNAhSH003900 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:10:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.5] (tnt-1-69.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.5]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BNAOjT003533 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:10:41 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3F0EF58A.A0D9055@optonline.net> References: <20030711093539.B45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> <3F0EF58A.A0D9055@optonline.net> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:13:57 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 1:36 PM -0400 7/11/03, J.A.Urbik wrote: >This is very much not primary sourse, but Mistresss Thorkatla (mka >Katheryn Nikolich) in a booklet on "The Greenland Gowns" says on p.14 > "Gowns were sewn with some form of french seam(1) to prolong wear, or >less frequently, some were lined" >"(1) see back cover for sample of french seam on the front and >sideseams" > >Unforunetly, even though the book is very informative (and I would >welcome anyone's constuctive comments on it) that illustration is, due >to copying, quite unclear. I'm not familiar with this booklet, and it's possible that she had access to information not in general circulation, but Norlund's descriptions of the seams don't include anything interpretable as a French seam. The only seam finish that he mentions is some decorative backstitching (which I interpret as being added after the seam is flattened). Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 19:20:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BNKRHP022305 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:20:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BNIY0P006880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:18:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BNIXcP013284; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:18:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.188]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6BNIWcP013269 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:18:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-66-127-112-202.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@66.127.112.202 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2003 23:18:31 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:18:18 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Sarah To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I bought this gorgeous silk brocade on ebay thinking it looked like this: http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/i-1.JPG Instead, I got this: http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/silkbrocade.jpg (Not that anything in the auction mentioned the photo was waaaaay off on the color, but that's beside the point) I'm not a purple person, but I decided to keep it because it sure is pretty, no matter how you look at it. The only trouble is that I want to use it in a Tudor or Elizabethan gown, but I can't seem to think of any purple being used during that time period. Does anyone know of any purple being used in clothing during the 16th century? Sources? Images? Ideas? The fact that it's purple will probably not keep me from using it in a costume, but I'm just stumped that I can't actually consciously remember seeing purple being used in clothing in any of the thousands of portraits I've looked at over the years. Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 19:56:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BNuHHP022550 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:56:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BNs40P010200 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:54:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BNs3cP002976; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:54:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BNs0cP002942 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:54:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19b7ho-0002he-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:53:47 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:53:40 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c34807$a9e601a0$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Bamberg Lining? Anyone used this before? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h6BNuHHP022550 Status: RO Hi all, my cousin has asked me to make her a riding coat for her show season this year. She gave me one of her old ones to make a pattern out of. I was surprised to find that the lining was a synthetic satin. (The fashion fabric is silk dupioni) I was wondering if they did this because the lining is exposed to perspiration. Anyway, I can't find duchess satin in the right color and I don't trust my dyeing skills to make sure it is colour fast, especially under "High sweat" conditions (My cousins swears she sweats more than her mounts). So after that long explanation, I have heard great things about Bamberg linings. Have any of you used this lining and what are your opinions about using it under extreme conditions? Thanks in advance, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 20:14:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6C0DxHP022588 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 20:13:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6C0C50P011513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:12:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6C0C4j6011122; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:12:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6C0C0j6011094 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-124-69.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.124.69]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6C0BwFx014711 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:11:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030711171005.00e2d6b0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:11:26 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates quote In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>Hi. Of course, as if to contradict all of the evidence presented by the >>many women on this list, as well as others, one of the ads for the movie >>presented the female lead stating "Oh, you like pain, do you? Try wearing >>a corset." Is there a little character for a sneer on my keyboard? Mike T. > >I thought that her father had brought her a "New Fashion from London" >which I thought explained some initial discomfort. If you had just worn a >New corset for however many scenes and hadn't had it custom fitted since >it WAS a suprise, might it not have been less than perfect? That was just >how I justified it all in my mind so I could go Back to staring. And if the curse had already happened before she arrived in the Caribbean, the plum dress could well be several years out of date too. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 11 23:13:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6C3DdHP022982 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 23:13:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6C36O0P023230 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:06:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6C36MFu000941; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:06:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6C36KFu000922 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:06:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-67.30.198.11.dial1.atlanta1.level3.net ([67.30.198.11]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19bAiJ-0003QV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 20:06:19 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:07:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS / KWAR Announcement From: Grace Morris To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm teaching on 13th c. Spain. This will be my third KWCS. Grace/Jessamyn > From: Robin Netherton > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 13:40:31 -0500 (CDT) > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS / KWAR Announcement > > > On Sat, 5 Jul 2003, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > >> Greetings all. Thought this SCA event might be of interest--the Known >> World Costuming Symposium. > > I'll be there (obviously!). Anyone else? I'd love to meet some people from > the list... > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 02:31:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6C6VJHP030947 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 02:31:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6C6TN0P006151 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:29:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6C6TJq4023213; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:29:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6C6THq4023147 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:29:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessica.webwarren.com (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.17.255]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by webwarren.com (8.12.8/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6C6T9Yl015432 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 02:29:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030712022503.065be380@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: arachne@pop.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 02:28:15 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] L'Angloyfe X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 10:29 AM, J.A.Urbik wrote: >Can someone who knows the language translate the writing? I am curious, >but since I last took french about 16 years ago i am LOST. Though I did >spend the morning trying to teach equations to summer school creole >speakers if that has any impact on french :> Mine is a bit rusty, too. Perhaps someone can correct any errors? The Englishwoman So attired is an English woman On top, her bonnet is furred One may recognize her (at least where she can be seen) Easily by her square(d) bonnet. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 05:25:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6C9PYHP027153 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 05:25:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6C9LR0P016371 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 03:21:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6C9LPYk028390; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 03:21:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6C9LIYk028301 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 03:21:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h6C9Ldl14564 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 02:21:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 02:21:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200307120921.h6C9Ldl14564@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >planning on doing the same to League of Extraordinary >Gentlemen tonight :-) Ooh ohh! All the stuff related to Captain Nemo was gorgeous. Even the deep sea divers had elaborate metalwork on their helmets. And Dorian Grey was prime, grade-A eye candy! Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 06:48:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CAmpHP027333 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 06:48:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CAic0P021104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 04:44:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CAiaon002442; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 04:44:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41507.mail.yahoo.com (web41507.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6CAiXon002371 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 04:44:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030712104427.5643.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:44:27 BST Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:44:27 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Personally, I would have sent it back and complained that the colour was different & unusable, but that's personal choice :-) It IS a very beautiful fabric! However, not being a 16th c. fiend I won't be able to add to your hopeful search, and being a 17th c. fiend I have to say that I, too, have not come across a single portrait in this type of modern purple. Sorry.... However, it is a gorgeous, gorgeous fabric! Perosnally, I'd make something seriously fancy to wear to work (okay, so my work clotehs are not particularly 'normal' :-) Nicole --- Sarah wrote: > I bought this gorgeous silk brocade on ebay thinking it looked like > this: http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/i-1.JPG > > Instead, I got this: > http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/silkbrocade.jpg > > (Not that anything in the auction mentioned the photo was waaaaay off > on the color, but that's beside the point) > > I'm not a purple person, but I decided to keep it because it sure is > pretty, no matter how you look at it. The only trouble is that I want > to use it in a Tudor or Elizabethan gown, but I can't seem to think of > any purple being used during that time period. Does anyone know of any > purple being used in clothing during the 16th century? Sources? > Images? Ideas? > > The fact that it's purple will probably not keep me from using it in a > costume, but I'm just stumped that I can't actually consciously > remember seeing purple being used in clothing in any of the thousands > of portraits I've looked at over the years. > > Sarah > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 10:48:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CEm6HP027706 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:48:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CEjv0P007079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 08:45:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CEjtgl008062; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 08:45:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CEjrgl008051 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 08:45:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-005scfairp0220.dialsprint.net ([63.184.232.220] helo=faucet.net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19bLdI-0007MD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 07:45:52 -0700 Message-ID: <3F102CB1.4030700@faucet.net> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:43:45 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <20030711.030909.-195739.0.catpurson@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] cutting chiffon and other woodgy fabric (was fitting a GFD/cotte) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lynn Downward wrote: > I agree. The first I worked with silk chiffon (for a 20's beaded slip > dress) I basted the pattern to the fabric and still had a time with the > fabric. I was SO afraid of cutting into this very expensive fabric and > messing it up. The basting took a lot of time but it cut better than it > would have and the dress turned out wonderfully. One thing that really helps when cutting fabric that's trying to crawl off the table (and out the door) is to get a pair of Gingher micro-serrated shears. They're designed just for this, and they have tons of teeny tiny teeth that grab the fabric and hold it so that they can cut it without it sliding. They're amazing. There are several sizes and shapes of them at http://www.gingher.com/products/serrdrsmkrs.htm [standard disclaimer: just a happy customer] Happy cutting, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 10:59:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CExAHP027723 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:59:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CEuG0P007876 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 08:56:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CEuFCZ012189; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 08:56:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta11.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta11.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CEuCCZ012171 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 08:56:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asv5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (asv5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.154]) by mta11.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HHX00CXR2TBO5@mta11.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:55:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optonline.net (ool-18bde58e.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.229.142]) h6CEtoRp016154 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:55:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:56:05 -0400 From: "J.A.Urbik" Subject: Re: [h-cost] L'Angloyfe -a translation To: Historical Costume Message-id: <3F102185.42605136@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030712022503.065be380@mail.earthlink.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here is the web page > > > > Here's another image I recently ran across ........ > > > > http://www.threadneedlest.com/Bulletinboard.htm French 1567 according Here is the translation. > The Englishwoman > > So attired is an English woman > On top, her bonnet is furred > One may recognize her (at least where she can be seen) > Easily by her square(d) bonnet. > > Brenda > webwarren@earthlink.net Thank you Brenda, Audrey, and Heather for the translation. I appricate the quickness of it as i was quite curious. Heather, I also apoliogize for the bad netquette, I was getting quite lazy :> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 11:48:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CFmMHP027779 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:48:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CFkD0P012865 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:46:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CFkBCZ007715; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:46:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CFk8CZ007695 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:46:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-171.75.220.106.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.220.106] helo=Dan) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19bMZb-0003bW-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:46:08 -0400 Message-ID: <005401c3488c$eb143fe0$6adc4bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] sharp object on airplanes Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:47:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I seem to recall "reading somewhere" that some ladies did use these as self defense. Probably anecdotal. Genie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laura Dickerson" To: Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 9:57 AM Subject: [h-cost] sharp object on airplanes > We always travel with the Fiskars rounded end kids' scissors. They've > been scrutinized but never confiscated. > > Shocking lapse on the part of airline personnel - last summer I walked > through the x-ray machine (having emptied my pockets) wearing a large straw > hat that was pinned to my head. With hat pins. 4 inches long, with a > decorative item on one end but really sharp at the other end. Machine > didn't beep. Screening folks said nothing. Flight attendants said nothing. > Hat stayed on when I walked out into the wind at the other end of the trip, > but those pins have to be more dangerous than the little sewing sharps > (which I carry on in my wooden needle case, with no problem). > > Laura Dickerson > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 11:56:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CFu2HP027782 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:56:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CFqd0P013206 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:52:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CFqcCZ010148; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:52:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CFqaCZ010128 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:52:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-171.75.220.106.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.220.106] helo=Dan) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19bMfr-0004IB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:52:35 -0400 Message-ID: <007201c3488d$d202e6e0$6adc4bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: <146.152fd94c.2c402248@aol.com> <000b01c347c9$5beb6d20$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> Subject: Re: [h-cost]books, was: Seams - to finish or not to finish Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:54:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have been asking family members to check my amazon wishlist for gift ideas. Or, gift cert.'s from fabric/book stores. Sometimes they listen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish > I am trying to get better about that. Between my costuming books and my > husband's heraldry books, we have been spending hundreds a month on > books.... not to mention the problem of having places to put them! > > I did get rewarded for my patience however. Last weekend we celebrated my > birthday early because we were visiting family. I received Janet Arnold's > 1560-1620 and Medieval Tailor's Assistant as well as gift cards for Michaels > and Joanns.... they know me well. :) > > Teena > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 10:23 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish > > > > In a message dated 7/11/2003 9:04:53 AM Central Standard Time, > > bkessinger@ureach.com writes: > > > > > Oooh! That book is on my wishlist for my birthday. Thanks! > > > > > > > Does anybody find that they have no willpower for books on wishlists? I > just > > find that anything I try to put on my "I'll get it on my getting > > day>!" ends up being gotten about 5 seconds later due to the whole Book > > Instant Gratification Need? Or am I just a big spoiled baby? > > > > -Sarra Wryght > > Elizabethan Dress Journals: > http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html > > Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 12:08:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CG8AHP027802 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:08:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CG610P014055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CG60M5015324; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CG5vM5015307 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:05:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-11-68.smf.jps.net ([216.119.11.68] helo=pavilion) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19bMsm-0002g8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:05:57 -0700 Message-ID: <001301c34891$c04f8300$440b77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030711.030909.-195739.0.catpurson@juno.com> <3F102CB1.4030700@faucet.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting chiffon and other woodgy fabric (was fitting a GFD/cotte) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:22:11 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Lynn Downward wrote: > > I agree. The first I worked with silk chiffon (for a 20's beaded slip > > dress) I basted the pattern to the fabric and still had a time with the > > fabric. I was SO afraid of cutting into this very expensive fabric and > > messing it up. The basting took a lot of time but it cut better than it > > would have and the dress turned out wonderfully. > Temporary spray adhesive has become a standard sewing tool of mine and would work well in this situation too. Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 12:08:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CG8XHP027805 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:08:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CG6Q0P014098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:06:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CG6PM5015523; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:06:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6CG6NM5015471 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:06:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Olp1vzmnQ+ObGrp0XgXKflA=">; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:05:19 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H4WA72BW; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:05:19 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:05:12 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] sharp object on airplanes: hatpins Message-ID: <20030712.090513.1208.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3,5-10,12-64 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My mother and grandmother both told me that they found hat pins very useful items in their youth for warding off unwanted advances, so not as anecdotal as you might think. As an aside, a fork can be a singularly useful tool too, in the right circumstances. Arlys On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:47:35 -0500 "Genie" writes: > I seem to recall "reading somewhere" that some ladies did use these > as self > defense. Probably anecdotal. > > Genie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Laura Dickerson" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 9:57 AM > Subject: [h-cost] sharp object on airplanes > > > > We always travel with the Fiskars rounded end kids' scissors. > They've > > been scrutinized but never confiscated. > > > > Shocking lapse on the part of airline personnel - last summer I > walked > > through the x-ray machine (having emptied my pockets) wearing a > large > straw > > hat that was pinned to my head. With hat pins. 4 inches long, > with a > > decorative item on one end but really sharp at the other end. > Machine > > didn't beep. Screening folks said nothing. Flight attendants said > nothing. > > Hat stayed on when I walked out into the wind at the other end of > the > trip, > > but those pins have to be more dangerous than the little sewing > sharps > > (which I carry on in my wooden needle case, with no problem). > > > > Laura Dickerson > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 13:02:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CH2aHP027899 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:02:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CGxQ0P017753 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:59:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CGxP0k009773; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:59:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CGxL0k009746 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:59:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (adsl-67-124-118-50.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [67.124.118.50])h6CGxJe3017063 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:59:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030712095236.02d1ec60@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:56:55 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting chiffon and other woodgy fabric (was fitting a GFD/cotte) In-Reply-To: <3F102CB1.4030700@faucet.net> References: <20030711.030909.-195739.0.catpurson@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Lynn Downward wrote: >>I agree. The first I worked with silk chiffon (for a 20's beaded slip >>dress) I basted the pattern to the fabric and still had a time with the >>fabric. I was SO afraid of cutting into this very expensive fabric and >>messing it up. The basting took a lot of time but it cut better than it >>would have and the dress turned out wonderfully. Then Melanie replied: >One thing that really helps when cutting fabric that's trying to crawl off >the table (and out the door) is to get a pair of Gingher micro-serrated >shears. They're designed just for this, and they have tons of teeny tiny >teeth that grab the fabric and hold it so that they can cut it without it >sliding. They're amazing. > >There are several sizes and shapes of them at >http://www.gingher.com/products/serrdrsmkrs.htm > >[standard disclaimer: just a happy customer] Oooh, thank you, thank you! I just realized--I'm cutting out a 1920s tea dress from silk chiffon this afternoon. I think I'll run over to JoAnn's and spend my 50% off coupon on a pair of those scissors before I start. Oh, and the absolute worst stuff I've ever worked with: silk charmeuse. There's a reason it's called "silk slime." ;-> Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 13:05:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CH5FHP027910 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:05:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CH360P018039 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:03:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CH360k011262; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:03:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CH340k011233 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:03:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip202.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.202]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DCB06D9DD for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:03:00 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:02:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Message-ID: <3F0FDCC9.14400.6365CD@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3F0EF58A.A0D9055@optonline.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This is very much not primary sourse, but Mistresss Thorkatla (mka > Katheryn Nikolich) in a booklet on "The Greenland Gowns" says on p.14 > "Gowns were sewn with some form of french seam(1) to prolong wear, > or > less frequently, some were lined" > "(1) see back cover for sample of french seam on the front and > sideseams" > > Unforunetly, even though the book is very informative (and I would > welcome anyone's constuctive comments on it) that illustration is, due > to copying, quite unclear. Unfortunately, the illustrations are the important part. Otherwise we don't know for sure whether "french seam" according to this person is what "french seam" means to someone else. Also, the original pieces which would actually show the stitching are important to know for sure that the interpretation of it is accurate. I've seen any number of redrawings which did not accurately represent the original garments at all. (Like seams going at an 85 degree angle to where they should go according to the original garment and according to experimentation with both forms.) I've also seen things like "flat felled" seams labeled as "french seams" (which are totally different and certainly not interchangeable.) Where is this pamphlet available? Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 13:35:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CHZNHP027945 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:35:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CHW30P019892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:32:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CHVx0k023627; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:32:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CHVw0k023611 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:31:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-176-239.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.176.239]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09AD62F9B4 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:32:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:31:56 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting chiffon and other woodgy fabric (was fitting a GFD/cotte) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3F102CB1.4030700@faucet.net> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm a big fan of quilt basting spray. you can use this (it's like hair spray, but kinder to fabric) and set the woodgie fabric onto thin paper and cut them together. I also use quilt basting spray to make underlining go faster for modern garments. .heather. On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 08:43 AM, Melanie Schuessler wrote: > Lynn Downward wrote: >> I agree. The first I worked with silk chiffon (for a 20's beaded >> slip dress) I basted the pattern to the fabric and still had a time >> with the fabric. I was SO afraid of cutting into this very expensive >> fabric and messing it up. The basting took a lot of time but it cut >> better than it would have and the dress turned out wonderfully. > > One thing that really helps when cutting fabric that's trying to crawl > off the table (and out the door) is to get a pair of Gingher > micro-serrated shears. They're designed just for this, and they have > tons of teeny tiny teeth that grab the fabric and hold it so that they > can cut it without it sliding. They're amazing. > > There are several sizes and shapes of them at > http://www.gingher.com/products/serrdrsmkrs.htm > > [standard disclaimer: just a happy customer] > > Happy cutting, > Melanie Schuessler > http://www.faucet.net/costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 13:38:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CHchHP027951 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:38:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CHZi0P020130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:35:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CHZh0k025115; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:35:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80408.mail.yahoo.com (web80408.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6CHZe0k025064 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:35:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030712173534.2090.qmail@web80408.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.124.118.50] by web80408.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:35:34 PDT Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:35:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F0FDCC9.14400.6365CD@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > This is very much not primary sourse, but > Mistresss Thorkatla (mka > > Katheryn Nikolich) in a booklet on "The Greenland > Gowns" says on p.14 > > "Gowns were sewn with some form of french seam(1) > to prolong wear, > > or > > less frequently, some were lined" > > "(1) see back cover for sample of french seam on > the front and > > sideseams" > > > > Unforunetly, even though the book is very > informative (and I would > > welcome anyone's constuctive comments on it) that > illustration is, due > > to copying, quite unclear. > > Unfortunately, the illustrations are the important > part. Otherwise we > don't know for sure whether "french seam" according > to this person is > what "french seam" means to someone else. Also, the > original pieces > which would actually show the stitching are > important to know for > sure that the interpretation of it is accurate. > > I've seen any number of redrawings which did not > accurately represent > the original garments at all. (Like seams going at > an 85 degree angle > to where they should go according to the original > garment and > according to experimentation with both forms.) I've > also seen things > like "flat felled" seams labeled as "french seams" > (which are totally > different and certainly not interchangeable.) > > Where is this pamphlet available? > > Kat > Kat-- Talk about finding things in weird places... I got curious so I "googled" Mistress Thorkatla and Greenland Gowns and got a reference back to h-costume, to a post published 4/2/97 regarding a discussion of construction of a Greenland gown, and she notes in her last paragraph that she was preparing a handout at that time. Her full SCA name was/is Mistress Thorkatla Herjolfsdotter, OP, and she was in the Shire of Eisental, East Kingdom. Hope this information helps. Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 13:53:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CHrVHP027970 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:53:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CHor0P021220 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:50:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CHoq0k002157; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:50:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CHol0k002114 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:50:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29399 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:15:38 -0500 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:15:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting chiffon and other woodgy fabric (was fitting a GFD/cotte) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 12 Jul 2003, Heather Meadows wrote: > I'm a big fan of quilt basting spray. you can use this (it's like hair > spray, but kinder to fabric) > and set the woodgie fabric onto thin paper and cut them together. I > also use quilt basting > spray to make underlining go faster for modern garments. This sounds cool.How do you get it out? Does it wash out, iron out, just disappear over time? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 14:06:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CI6eHP027988 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:06:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CI3H0P022326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:03:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CI3GpD007403; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:03:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CI3DpD007387 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:03:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-176-239.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.176.239]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8FCE2F9A2 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:04:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:03:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting chiffon and other woodgy fabric (was fitting a GFD/cotte) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <18671CC2-B493-11D7-935C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO it washes out! On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 11:15 AM, Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Sat, 12 Jul 2003, Heather Meadows wrote: > >> I'm a big fan of quilt basting spray. you can use this (it's like >> hair >> spray, but kinder to fabric) >> and set the woodgie fabric onto thin paper and cut them together. I >> also use quilt basting >> spray to make underlining go faster for modern garments. > > This sounds cool.How do you get it out? Does it wash out, iron out, > just > disappear over time? > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 14:15:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CIFEHP028000 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:15:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CICG0P023232 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:12:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CICDpD012742; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:12:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law8-oe35.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CICApD012635 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:12:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:12:05 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by law8-oe35.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:12:05 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307120921.h6C9Ldl14564@gw.retro.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:12:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jul 2003 18:12:05.0495 (UTC) FILETIME=[19B85070:01C348A1] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >planning on doing the same to League of Extraordinary > >Gentlemen tonight :-) > > Ooh ohh! All the stuff related to Captain Nemo was gorgeous. Even > the deep sea divers had elaborate metalwork on their helmets. And > Dorian Grey was prime, grade-A eye candy! I loved the way the woman dressed too :-) The libraries with books to the ceiling were really impressive too... And the old buildings all throughout the book. Plus all those nice costumes, and those nice-looking people in the costumes :-) I guess we can't really criticise the costumes or historical accuracy of the movie because... well... it just wasn't meant to be authentic :-) So we can just watch and have fun... that's a relief! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 18:03:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CM3iHP028345 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:03:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CLxk0P016028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:59:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CLxb1f001760; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:59:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.186]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6CLwx1f001080 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:59:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ppp-66-126-75-131.dialup.sndg02.pacbell.net (HELO sbcglobal.net) (lady?m?de?j%sbcglobal.net@66.126.75.131 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2003 21:58:58 -0000 Message-ID: <3F1084A6.4060400@sbcglobal.net> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:59:02 -0700 From: Maura Folsom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-CA; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-ca, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] sharp object on airplanes References: <200307121800.h6CI0gpE006167@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-SPAMCHECK.NET-Metrics: net.indra.com 1168; From=1 Message-ID=1 Received=1 Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Genie" charset="iso-8859-1" wrote: >I seem to recall "reading somewhere" that some ladies did use these as self >defense. Probably anecdotal. "Laura Dickerson" wrote: >> Shocking lapse on the part of airline personnel - last summer I walked >> through the x-ray machine (having emptied my pockets) wearing a large >> straw hat that was pinned to my head. With hat pins. 4 inches long, >> with a decorative item on one end but really sharp at the other end. Well, ISTR that there was an urban legend in the early part of the 20th C that women were murdering people with hatpins and that iwas some kind of menace so they should be banned. OTOH, this could be a Modern Historical Costuming Legend, instead. Don't remember if I've ever seen it in print. Maura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 18:38:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CMcMHP028420 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:38:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CMYw0P018701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:34:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CMYv1f018941; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:34:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.grics.net (64-40-67-29.madisonriver.net [64.40.67.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CMYt1f018921 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:34:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-68.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.68]) by mailrelay.grics.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3947A4134E for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:34:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3F108DE0.2000306@grics.net> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:38:24 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: fabric stores and men References: <20030710020418.82383.qmail@web11404.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030710020418.82383.qmail@web11404.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fingers x'd. Good to hear! Has anyone else noticed their local Hancock's going down the tubes (ours no longer has Threads or Sew News magazine!) Or is it just this area which is depressed anyhow? Heather L Jeff Brainard wrote: >yeah, it's Hancock's I'm having problems with. I wonder if part of it >is sideways homophobia. I took a new job today, so cross your fingers >girls! > >Jeff > > > > >>Sorry you are having troubles Jeff. A good friend of mine also has >>problems when he goes into fabrics stores to shop, at least Hancock's >>or >>JoAnn's. They know him very well in the two higher-end stores here >>in >>town and he has no problems there. That could also be because, >>especially in one of them, they are very familiar with his work and >>he >>is an awesome costume (started in Civil War and we are sucking him >>into >>Elizabethan, yes I'm trying to get him onto this list :). >>http://www.kcrenfest.com/PhotoGallery/Fops.html. Jason is the >>gentleman on the right and he created all 3 costumes). >> >>I had not really thought of it before but after Jeff has brought this >>up, I don't see very many men in our local fabric stores, at least >>the >>Hancock's and JoAnn's, either working at them or shopping. One of >>the >>remaining, smaller, JoAnn's used to be managed by a man but he has >>since >>left. Both of the higher-end stores do have male employees, one is >>owned by a man. Sounds like any problems might be more with the >>larger >>chains. >> >>Catherine >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >http://sbc.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 18:52:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CMq2HP028445 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:52:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CMmf0P019725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:48:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CMme1f025246; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:48:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.grics.net (64-40-67-28.madisonriver.net [64.40.67.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CMmb1f025214 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:48:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-68.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.68]) by mailrelay.grics.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DB2E41493 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:48:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3F109113.2020204@grics.net> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:52:03 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <20030709215542.25082.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> <3F0CCA44.4030705@grics.net> <008a01c3474a$74c00880$0200a8c0@bently> In-Reply-To: <008a01c3474a$74c00880$0200a8c0@bently> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Gingham X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Glad I could help :-) ! Of course you don't wash it first. Does anyone know of any good online sources for **large** quantities of 1" or 1/2" stuff cheap? (And, do they do it in cm. in Europe? :-P ) Heather L >>Where i live you can't find gingham (I like the 1" for mockups) >> >> > >Omigosh! You're a genius, and for the life of me, I can't think why I >didn't think of it myself, earlier. Back to the Joann's from hell, to >check out 1" gingham! > >Pam Dotson > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 19:57:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CNvkHP028533 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:57:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CNsK0P024711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CNsJnH025347; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:54:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp.austarmetro.com.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6CNsEnH025310 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:54:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ewalpole (dialup-248.47.194.203.acc02-nort-cbr.comindico.com.au [203.194.47.248])h6CNs9pg006040 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:54:12 +1000 Message-ID: <002d01c348d0$3a9a6420$f82fc2cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:24:59 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In her portrait Jane Seymour wears a reddish purple velvet. That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Elizabeth Walpole -----Original Message----- From: Sarah To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Saturday, July 12, 2003 9:18 AM Subject: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric >I bought this gorgeous silk brocade on ebay thinking it looked like >this: http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/i-1.JPG > >Instead, I got this: >http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/silkbrocade.jpg > >(Not that anything in the auction mentioned the photo was waaaaay off >on the color, but that's beside the point) > >I'm not a purple person, but I decided to keep it because it sure is >pretty, no matter how you look at it. The only trouble is that I want >to use it in a Tudor or Elizabethan gown, but I can't seem to think of >any purple being used during that time period. Does anyone know of any >purple being used in clothing during the 16th century? Sources? >Images? Ideas? > >The fact that it's purple will probably not keep me from using it in a >costume, but I'm just stumped that I can't actually consciously >remember seeing purple being used in clothing in any of the thousands >of portraits I've looked at over the years. > >Sarah > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 20:24:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D0ONHP028570 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 20:24:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D0Kt0P026649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:20:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D0KsD0006810; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:20:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D0KpD0006736 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:20:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1cd.d999be1 (16484) for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 20:20:44 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1cd.d999be1.2c41ffdc@aol.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 20:20:44 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redneck fabric stores and men To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/10/2003 9:18:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, someone@eskimo.com writes: > You're a genius, and for the life of me, I can't think why I > didn't think of it myself, earlier. We've been teaching this in flat pattern/draping classes for years. Gingham, of course, also has very clear woven grainlines. Much better than the old couture method of tracing the straight grain, both lengthwise and crosswise, on plain muslin with a basting thread. Good discipline, I suppose, but takes forever and you could be using that time to actually be draping/patterning. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 20:25:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D0PLHP028573 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 20:25:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D0ME0P026722 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:22:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D0MDD0007284; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:22:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D0MBD0007213 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:22:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.99.3a84f2d5 (16484) for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 20:22:02 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <99.3a84f2d5.2c42002a@aol.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 20:22:02 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Other" The selvege of the fabric--early 19th c. gown panels are almost always the full width of the fabric, with the selvege then also serving as a seam finish. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 20:34:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D0YnHP028587 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 20:34:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D0VX0P027507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:31:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D0VWD0011201; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:31:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D0VUD0011139 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:31:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.49.30f1ddd6 (16484) for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 20:31:23 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <49.30f1ddd6.2c42025b@aol.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 20:31:23 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bamberg Lining? Anyone used this before? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/11/2003 7:54:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, saragrace@earthlink.net writes: > Bamberg > linings. It is "Bemberg," being a type of rayon. Rayon linings has traditionally not held up well. They have poor abrasion resistance, but certainly would be absorbent. Unlike polyester linings, which are not absorbent but have good wear qualities. Nylon might be good if you could find it--kind of the best of both worlds. But you would probably have trouble finding it is a range of colors, too. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 21:09:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D19oHP028641 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:09:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D16I0P000168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:06:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D16GmP026194; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:06:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.183]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6D16DmP026173 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:06:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-116-253-4.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.116.253.4 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2003 01:06:13 -0000 Message-ID: <051801c348da$eff447a0$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030711145844.30055.qmail@web21411.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:06:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This reminds me of when I went to see Kate & Leopold with a (non-costumer) friend. At the end of the movie, when Kate has travelled back to the 19th century, my friend sighs and says to me, "Yeah, but then who'd want to wear a corset for the rest of her life?" I said, "Um, me!" - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 12 22:50:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D2omHP028822 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 22:50:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D2lF0P007301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 20:47:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D2lEf8010527; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 20:47:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D2lBf8010511 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 20:47:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asv3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (asv3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.152]) by mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 22:46:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optonline.net (ool-18bde58e.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.229.142]) h6D2kb87024340 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 22:46:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 22:46:44 -0400 From: "J.A.Urbik" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish To: Historical Costume Message-id: <3F10C814.AB067E2F@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <3F0FDCC9.14400.6365CD@localhost> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: ...snip of jaurbik's post about a pamphlet > I've seen any number of redrawings which did not accurately represent > the original garments at all. (Like seams going at an 85 degree angle > to where they should go according to the original garment and > according to experimentation with both forms.) I've also seen things > like "flat felled" seams labeled as "french seams" (which are totally > different and certainly not interchangeable.) > > Where is this pamphlet available? > Kat I got the pamphlet at pennsic several years ago when I went to a lecture she gave, but the contact info on the back of the booklet gives her email adrress as nikolich@ptdprolog.net, however, I have no garunttey that that is still current. It also gives an snail mail address, in case the email does not. Jordana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 00:31:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D4V7HP028992 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:31:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D4Re0P015014 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 22:27:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D4Rb0R025099; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 22:27:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D4RY0S025075 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 22:27:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (acty3192.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.248.192]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h6D4Rteg017670 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:27:56 -0400 Message-ID: <3F10DEE3.3090103@dandy.net> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:24:03 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope plus period corsets References: <20030711113421.B45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. Just catching up on all of the posts, so if this has been answered, pls disregard. Real hemp (not the stuff you get in hardware stores, but the real thing) is very soft and pliable, and doesn't have any bits that should stick out and be itchy. If anyone is looking for real hemp rope in a variety of diameters, please send me a note offlist, and I can probably help. I order it regularly for my tent ropes as well as to make slowmatch for blackpowder weapons, and if I don't have the right stuff sitting around, I might be able to get it fairly easily. Cheers, Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 01:30:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D5UmHP029107 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 01:30:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D5RH0P018665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 23:27:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D5RGpN016926; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 23:27:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D5RDpN016914 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 23:27:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-176-239.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.176.239]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB3102F92E for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 22:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:22:00 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <051801c348da$eff447a0$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> Message-Id: <670A81F9-B4D0-11D7-8616-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You have a non-costumer friend? what are you thinking? ;) On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 06:06 PM, Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > This reminds me of when I went to see Kate & Leopold with a > (non-costumer) > friend. At the end of the movie, when Kate has travelled back to the > 19th > century, my friend sighs and says to me, "Yeah, but then who'd want to > wear > a corset for the rest of her life?" > > I said, "Um, me!" > > - Kendra > http://demode.tweedlebop.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 06:41:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DAfeHP009019 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 06:41:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DAds0P006758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 04:39:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DAdkrD007616; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 04:39:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp.austarmetro.com.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DAdhrD007571 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 04:39:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ewalpole (dialup-102.34.194.203.acc01-nort-cbr.comindico.com.au [203.194.34.102])h6DAcnpq010036 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:39:41 +1000 Message-ID: <000601c3492a$2ed0dd40$6622c2cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:22:00 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia Abel To: Historical Costume Date: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 5:32 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Six Wives of Henry VIII >Yes, it is. I have the DVD on its way to me and have had the huge companion >book for several months--the UK version--it has just been published here in >the states. The book spends a lot more time and space with Henry's first >two wives; Starkey has spent a lot of research going back to original and >contemporary sources to bring some new light on especially Catherine of >Aragon and theorizes a possible different cause of death for Prince Arthur, >for instance. >Cindy Abel I was reading a book a few weeks ago on Tudor Women focussing essentially on the royal family from Henry VII's mother Margaret Beafort down to Elizabeth I. When I was discussing the part on Catherine of Aragon's difficulty producing a live healthy baby with my mum (ex midwife) she commented that it sounded to her like the woman had a weak cervix and therefore could not hold the babies to full term. Some of her pregnancies resluted in early miscarriage & some of them were near full term (e.g. they had one son who lived for a few days) but without modern technology to assist the premature babies they ended up dying. Mary was apparently a particularly strong or lucky baby & being a girl helped (as a general rule female babies survive slightly more often than males). Amazing to think that something so easily treated in the modern world resulted in such huge religious problems, just because she happened to be married to the King of England Elizabeth Walpole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 06:42:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DAgFHP009023 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 06:42:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DAeL0P006781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 04:40:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DAeKrD007818; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 04:40:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp.austarmetro.com.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DAdgrD007564 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 04:39:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ewalpole (dialup-102.34.194.203.acc01-nort-cbr.comindico.com.au [203.194.34.102])h6DAcnpo010036 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:39:39 +1000 Message-ID: <000501c3492a$2dbb2780$6622c2cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:53:33 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I find I am much more comfortable pulling my breasts upwards than just letting them sit where they are when I finish lacing my corset. then again put on my own corset & it's back lacing with shoulder straps. So when I reach around the back to tighten the laces my shoulders come up, which pulls up the whole corset & once I've finished pulling in the laces I need to pull my corset back down which means my breasts are folded down like someone else said (sorry I can't recall who) & I need to pull them up to put them back into a more normal position. I'm a C cup but I can't get the TOAP look with my corset no matter what I do. Apparently my neckline is too high *g* Just my experience I'm sure people in period had different ways of achieving the look they wanted too. Elizabeth Walpole P.S. Sorry this reply is late I've been trying to spend more time sewing & less time emailing but then I end up spending a week catching up on what I missed -----Original Message----- From: Kirrily Robert To: Historical Costume Date: Friday, July 04, 2003 2:17 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations >Sarah wrote: >> Also, I should add that compressing the bosom is a lot less comfortable >> than hosting. It's a more restrictive feeling and even somewhat >> painful and takes some getting used to. > >Actually, I find compressing the breasts inwards to be pretty >comfortable, compared to hoisting them upwards. The trick is to push >them "inwards" towards your torso, just like if you were wearing a >sturdy sports bra. Your nipples should stay in the same place (when >seen from the front) as when you are not wearing the bodice... perhaps a >*smidgen* higher than where they naturally sit, but not more than about >an inch higher unless you're particularly saggy. Not as high as most >modern bras put them, anyway. > >The breast should kind of be squished flat with the nipple in the same >place, rather than hoisted up or pushed down. Though if you want >cleavage *without* TOAP or having your nipples pop out the top of the >bodice, the trick is to keep your nipples at the same *height* as they >were originally, but move them *inwards*... front-lacing bodices help >with this naturally but with a back or side-back lacing one you'll have >to reach in and move the puppies around a bit. > >The overall tightness of the bodice should be the minimum to keep your >nipples where you put them, and no tighter. This overall strategy leads >to a more "conical" shape to your bodices, and less curvy. > >Here's a pic of me in a bodice that fits that way... nipples are about >3" below the top of the bodice, I think (I'm a DD): >http://infotrope.net/sca/album//projects/costuming/2001-reddress/katherine4 .jpg > >Here's a side view of the same outfit: >http://infotrope.net/sca/album//projects/costuming/2001-reddress/katherine5 .jpg > >K. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 08:33:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DCXFHP009258 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 08:33:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DCVR0P012602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 06:31:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DCVPVW015274; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 06:31:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (sea1-f171.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DCVMVW015228 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 06:31:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 05:31:17 -0700 Received: from 151.199.129.140 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:31:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.129.140] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting chiffon and other woodgy fabric (was fitting aGFD/cotte) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 08:31:17 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jul 2003 12:31:17.0462 (UTC) FILETIME=[A827D760:01C3493A] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can you then remove the thin paper, or do you need paper that washes away? This sounds like just the thing to cure "the creeps." Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice. >From: Heather Meadows >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: Historical Costume >Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting chiffon and other woodgy fabric (was fitting >aGFD/cotte) >Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:31:56 -0700 > >I'm a big fan of quilt basting spray. you can use this (it's like hair >spray, but kinder to fabric) >and set the woodgie fabric onto thin paper and cut them together. I also >use quilt basting >spray to make underlining go faster for modern garments. > >.heather. > > >On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 08:43 AM, Melanie Schuessler wrote: > >>Lynn Downward wrote: >>>I agree. The first I worked with silk chiffon (for a 20's beaded slip >>>dress) I basted the pattern to the fabric and still had a time with the >>>fabric. I was SO afraid of cutting into this very expensive fabric and >>>messing it up. The basting took a lot of time but it cut better than it >>>would have and the dress turned out wonderfully. >> >>One thing that really helps when cutting fabric that's trying to crawl off >>the table (and out the door) is to get a pair of Gingher micro-serrated >>shears. They're designed just for this, and they have tons of teeny tiny >>teeth that grab the fabric and hold it so that they can cut it without it >>sliding. They're amazing. >> >>There are several sizes and shapes of them at >>http://www.gingher.com/products/serrdrsmkrs.htm >> >>[standard disclaimer: just a happy customer] >> >>Happy cutting, >>Melanie Schuessler >>http://www.faucet.net/costume >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 09:06:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DD6RHP009316 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:06:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DD4j0P014560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:04:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DD4iCj026730; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:04:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (sea1-f117.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.117]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DD4gCj026680 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:04:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 06:04:36 -0700 Received: from 151.199.129.140 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:04:36 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.129.140] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork shift questions/beading questions Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:04:36 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jul 2003 13:04:36.0902 (UTC) FILETIME=[4FEA2C60:01C3493F] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As I am working on just such a shift, do you happen to remember the authors/names of these embroidery books? The more information, the better..... Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice. >From: kat@grendal.rain.com >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: Historical Costume >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork shift questions/beading questions >Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:25:43 -0700 > > > > I have a picture of an extant Italian chemise with embroidery around > > the neck and down the sleeves and body of the chemise. The embroidery > > goes all the way around the neckline. As soon as I can find it, I > > will post it on my website for you if you would like. Im sorry, I > > cant even give you a book to look for right now. All my books are > > packed and have left for Kamloops already. > >Milia Davenport's Book of Costume has one. There are several >embroidery books which have pictures of them too. > _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 09:08:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DD85HP009327 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:08:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DD6M0P014652 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:06:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DD6LCj027502; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:06:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (sea1-f152.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.152]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DD6KCj027450 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:06:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 06:06:14 -0700 Received: from 151.199.129.140 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:06:14 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.129.140] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork shift questions/beading questions Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:06:14 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jul 2003 13:06:14.0778 (UTC) FILETIME=[8A40DDA0:01C3493F] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would definitely like a copy of this. Thanks! Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice. >From: Jennifer Potts >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: h-costume@net.indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] Blackwork shift questions/beading questions >Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 23:30:37 -0700 > >Sorry about my addition to this thread being so behind. Im packing my >house to move right now and am VERY behind in my reading. > >I have a picture of an extant Italian chemise with embroidery around the >neck and down the sleeves and body of the chemise. The embroidery goes all >the way around the neckline. As soon as I can find it, I will post it on >my website for you if you would like. Im sorry, I cant even give you a >book to look for right now. All my books are packed and have left for >Kamloops already. > >You can contact me privately if you would like a copy. > >Jennifer Potts >aka Senor Giacyntha Francesca Maria Cocchetti, >Shire of Ramsgaard, SCA > > >Message: 1 >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:37:23 -0700 (PDT) >From: Cascio Michael >Subject: [h-cost] blackwork shift questions/beading questions >To: h-costume@net.indra.com >Message-ID: <20030617133723.90188.qmail@web12005.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Hi All, > I'm finally caught up on my posts and have a few >questions. > On square neck Elizabethan shifts with the >blackwork embroidery around the edge of the square >neck would the embroidery go around the entire edge or >would it just be a band across the front where it >would show? I know Janet Arnold mentions a square >neck shift somewhere but I don't recall ever seeing a >picture of it anywhere. I'm working on a shift with >the low square neck and blackwork on the cuffs as per >the Helena Snakenborg, although you can't see her >shift sleeves underneath that beautifully embroidered >partlet and sleeves. > Second question---One of the beading magazines I >pick up occasionally has some choker patterns that I >thought would make nice beaded trims. The chokers >were made with a light weight gauge wire but as I want >to sew these patterns down to a garment edge should I >use wire and make the choker as per the instructions >and then sew it onto the velvet? Since I was going to >put a band of velvet along the edge of the sleeves and >hem, like a guard, I could stitch each bead down to >the velvet and then take it off should I need to clean >the garment. And since I'm going to put these on a >garment should I use flat beads or the round beads the >pattern suggests? > Any help would be most appreciated. > Cassandra > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 09:34:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DDY6HP009408 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:34:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DDWB0P016204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:32:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DDWACj007340; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:32:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DDW8Cj007326 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:32:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-171.75.226.31.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.226.31] helo=Dan) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19bgxT-0002X1-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:32:07 -0400 Message-ID: <001201c34943$5cca3ca0$1fe24bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1cd.d999be1.2c41ffdc@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redneck fabric stores and men Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 08:33:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Excuse me, but ewhat does this have to do with the subject line?? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 7:20 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redneck fabric stores and men > In a message dated 7/10/2003 9:18:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > someone@eskimo.com writes: > > > > You're a genius, and for the life of me, I can't think why I > > didn't think of it myself, earlier. > > We've been teaching this in flat pattern/draping classes for years. Gingham, > of course, also has very clear woven grainlines. Much better than the old > couture method of tracing the straight grain, both lengthwise and crosswise, on > plain muslin with a basting thread. Good discipline, I suppose, but takes > forever and you could be using that time to actually be draping/patterning. > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 09:38:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DDcDHP009430 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:38:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DDZp0P016384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:35:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DDZoCj008524; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:35:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DDZmCj008507 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:35:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-171.75.226.31.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.226.31] helo=Dan) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19bh11-000658-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:35:48 -0400 Message-ID: <001801c34943$e06ecc60$1fe24bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: <49.30f1ddd6.2c42025b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bamberg Lining? Anyone used this before? Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 08:37:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, in last week's sewing column in my local paper they were talking about a rayon lining called "ambience"(?). She was recommending it for lining summer fashions for those who prefer linings. Genie ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 7:31 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bamberg Lining? Anyone used this before? > In a message dated 7/11/2003 7:54:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > saragrace@earthlink.net writes: > > > > Bamberg > > linings. > > It is "Bemberg," being a type of rayon. Rayon linings has traditionally not > held up well. They have poor abrasion resistance, but certainly would be > absorbent. Unlike polyester linings, which are not absorbent but have good wear > qualities. Nylon might be good if you could find it--kind of the best of both > worlds. But you would probably have trouble finding it is a range of colors, > too. > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 09:43:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DDhaHP009480 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:43:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DDfw0P016644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:41:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DDfuCj010473; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:41:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DDfsCj010430 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:41:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-171.75.220.108.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.220.108] helo=Dan) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19bh6u-00077Z-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:41:54 -0400 Message-ID: <002701c34944$b9fa53a0$1fe24bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 08:40:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] goddess fashions? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h6DDhaHP009480 Status: RO Watching Sunday Morning, they're talking about the latest fashion look. Not exactly historical, but, interesting. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 10:24:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DEOPHP009614 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:24:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DEMh0P018428 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 08:22:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DEMgCd023548; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 08:22:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DEMeCd023534 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 08:22:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-002-151.jps.net ([216.119.2.151] helo=pavilion) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19bhkN-00076d-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:22:39 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01c3494c$7e267ea0$970277d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting chiffon and other woodgy fabric (was fittingaGFD/cotte) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:38:56 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: "Nancy Kiel wrote: > Can you then remove the thin paper, or do you need paper that washes away? > This sounds like just the thing to cure "the creeps." > > Nancy, temporary adhesive spray (for fabric) is like "post it note type glue" in a can. You can spray the pattern with the lightest mist and place it on the fabric, pick it up and reposition it if you wish, and peel it off after you have finished cutting. The pattern is only slightly tacky. And you don't need much a little can goes a long long way. Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 12:10:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DGAeHP009867 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:10:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DG8r0P024501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:08:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DG8nwJ003389; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:08:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DG8iwJ003234 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:08:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a216.in-tch.com [66.62.107.16]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6DFnV604788 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:49:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F118473.AED2D87B@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:10:27 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ISTR records of Mary I having gowns of purple (think it's mentioned in the back sections of QE Unlocked). Also, I've *seen* actual cut-and-voided velvet (mid-16th c, IIRC) that was done in gold and purple. There's also the mulberry clothing in Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620. Those are about the only examples I can think of, right off the bat. I can't think of any pictorial examples, either, though.... --sue Sarah wrote: > > I bought this gorgeous silk brocade on ebay thinking it looked like > this: http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/i-1.JPG > > Instead, I got this: > http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/silkbrocade.jpg > > (Not that anything in the auction mentioned the photo was waaaaay off > on the color, but that's beside the point) > > I'm not a purple person, but I decided to keep it because it sure is > pretty, no matter how you look at it. The only trouble is that I want > to use it in a Tudor or Elizabethan gown, but I can't seem to think of > any purple being used during that time period. Does anyone know of any > purple being used in clothing during the 16th century? Sources? > Images? Ideas? > > The fact that it's purple will probably not keep me from using it in a > costume, but I'm just stumped that I can't actually consciously > remember seeing purple being used in clothing in any of the thousands > of portraits I've looked at over the years. > > Sarah > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 12:20:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DGKRHP009914 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:20:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DGIi0P025231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:18:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DGIhwJ008261; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:18:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DGIgwJ008222 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:18:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a216.in-tch.com [66.62.107.16]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6DFxT605657 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:59:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F1186CC.EB35B279@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:20:28 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] italian hat question References: <3F0EDCFE.8030300@fenris.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It reminds me a bit of the pleated tall hats in Patterns of Fashion, although a bit puffier (which could be materials or artist's interpretation). --sue Elizabeth Young wrote: > > Has anyone seen a hat like this other than in Vecellio? > http://www.costumes.org/history/broderbund/boo/BOO50281.gif> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 12:23:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DGNsHP009923 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:23:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DGMF0P025467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:22:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DGMFwJ009565; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:22:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DGMCwJ009536 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:22:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a216.in-tch.com [66.62.107.16]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6DG30605935 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F11879F.EA7020DE@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:23:59 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope plus period corsets References: <20030710095627.Y24337-100000@shell.siscom.net> <3F0EE4D4.9010109@faucet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Whalebone (there's apparently some good artificial stuff available) or reeds/broom straw are, I think, both documentable in the 16th c. IIRC, Drea's got some stuff on her website about doing a corset with reed bents.... --sue Melanie Schuessler wrote: > > Speaking of more-period underpinnings, I've also been toying with the > idea of a new corset. Though mine works perfectly well, it's boned with > steel. I've thought about bents, but the end product isn't washable, is > it? The hemp cord version seems a little curvy for 1575 Elizabethan > (and no one has come up with any solid evidence for it, as far as I > know). Any thoughts? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 12:26:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DGQoHP009931 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:26:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DGP50P025595 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:25:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DGP4wJ010577; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:25:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4-svc.business.ntl.com (mta4-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DGP1wJ010550 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:25:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Imedia5043 ([80.1.24.188]) by mta4-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20030713162458.QQLN18420.mta4-svc.business.ntl.com@Imedia5043> for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:24:58 +0100 Message-ID: <003101c3495b$48960a30$bc180150@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F118473.AED2D87B@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:24:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO there are sumptuary laws in England during Henry V111 reign to do with purple as it was extremely expensive, hence it being called royal purple but can't remember when they were repealed Dawn Ages Of Elegance makers of Historical reproduction Clothing, Uniforms and Bridalwear http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 > ISTR records of Mary I having gowns of purple (think it's mentioned in > the back sections of QE Unlocked). > Also, I've *seen* actual cut-and-voided velvet (mid-16th c, IIRC) that > > any purple being used during that time period. Does anyone know of any > > purple being used in clothing during the 16th century? Sources? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 12:51:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DGp2HP009965 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:51:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DGnJ0P027048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:49:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DGnHwJ020245; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:49:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from stanford.loosefoot.com (stanford.loosefoot.com [207.195.54.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DGnEwJ020224 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:49:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bernie.loosefoot.com (bernie.loosefoot.com [207.195.54.243]) by stanford.loosefoot.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 018F0161480 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:49:14 -0600 (CST) Received: (qmail 15418 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2003 16:49:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mabion.spublofe.com) (12.246.76.5) by bernie.loosefoot.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2003 16:49:13 -0000 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20030713090525.00a50010@pop3.lfchosting.com> X-Sender: mabse/spublofe.com@pop3.lfchosting.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:47:55 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones In-Reply-To: <200307121456.h6CEuSCb012309@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Pirates of the Caribbean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I just saw Pirates, and I am sure that all of you think that I am writing this just so I can droll all over Johnny Depp and how incredibly hot he is, but actually, I have a costume question. The scene after Elizabeth goes into the water... and Johnny rips her dress off underwater, pretty good trick that one. and then somebody rips off her corset, I never found it that easy, but okay, she is then lying there is a shift and some kind of stays. Does this have any kind of historical significance? Is this undercorset - not a corset garment something that has any significance for this century? And, of course, Johnny Depp is to die for... maryann _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 13:38:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DHceHP010036 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:38:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DHat0P029779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:36:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DHasde011962; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:36:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DHapde011941 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:36:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (adsl-67-124-118-50.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [67.124.118.50]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6DHanFw013889 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:36:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030713102431.00b2f9f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:34:25 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pirates of the Caribbean In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20030713090525.00a50010@pop3.lfchosting.com> References: <200307121456.h6CEuSCb012309@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:47 AM 7/13/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Well, I just saw Pirates, and I am sure that all of you think that I am >writing this just so I can droll all over Johnny Depp and how incredibly >hot he is, but actually, I have a costume question. The scene after >Elizabeth goes into the water... and Johnny rips her dress off underwater, >pretty good trick that one. and then somebody rips off her corset, I >never found it that easy, but okay, she is then lying there is a shift and >some kind of stays. Does this have any kind of historical >significance? Is this undercorset - not a corset garment something that >has any significance for this century? And, of course, Johnny Depp is to >die for... maryann Not that I know of, but as I'm not heavily researching this period right now... OTOH, I think all of the costumes (except possibly the military uniforms) were simply Disney. The "great costumes" aspect of the movie was ruined for me in the first scene, when they showed the back of the young girl Elizabeth, and there was a *very* visible zipper up the back of her gown. After that, I just settled down to enjoy the movie as the piece of eye-candy it was meant to be. I also was a little disappointed by Johnny Depp's performance; while the dialog was extremely cute, I found his mannerisms to be rather irritating after a while. Speaking of good costuming/sewing movies, Turner Classic Movies is running a good selection today (for those who have cable in their sewing areas). Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 14:21:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DILbHP010160 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:21:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DIJq0P002692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:19:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DIJg4e001367; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:19:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DIJd4e001337 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:19:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-176-239.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.176.239]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2115B2F90F for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:20:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:19:37 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting chiffon and other woodgy fabric (was fitting aGFD/cotte) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <8FE5D49F-B55E-11D7-B3EB-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO you can just peel it off - it's basting spray, it's removable. I actually haven't used this with chiffon myself yet, but if I were, I would probably machine baste the chiffon together while still attached to the paper (I usually sew chiffon with paper and then tear the paper off so my machine won't eat it) so that it won't distort between peeling the paper off and getting the seams stitched. On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 05:31 AM, Nancy Kiel wrote: > Can you then remove the thin paper, or do you need paper that washes > away? This sounds like just the thing to cure "the creeps." > > > > Nancy Kiel > nancy_kiel@hotmail.com > Never tease a weasel! > This is very good advice. > For the weasel will not like it > And teasing isn't nice. > > > > > >> From: Heather Meadows >> Reply-To: Historical Costume >> To: Historical Costume >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting chiffon and other woodgy fabric (was >> fitting aGFD/cotte) >> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:31:56 -0700 >> >> I'm a big fan of quilt basting spray. you can use this (it's like >> hair spray, but kinder to fabric) >> and set the woodgie fabric onto thin paper and cut them together. I >> also use quilt basting >> spray to make underlining go faster for modern garments. >> >> .heather. >> >> >> On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 08:43 AM, Melanie Schuessler wrote: >> >>> Lynn Downward wrote: >>>> I agree. The first I worked with silk chiffon (for a 20's beaded >>>> slip dress) I basted the pattern to the fabric and still had a time >>>> with the fabric. I was SO afraid of cutting into this very >>>> expensive fabric and messing it up. The basting took a lot of time >>>> but it cut better than it would have and the dress turned out >>>> wonderfully. >>> >>> One thing that really helps when cutting fabric that's trying to >>> crawl off the table (and out the door) is to get a pair of Gingher >>> micro-serrated shears. They're designed just for this, and they >>> have tons of teeny tiny teeth that grab the fabric and hold it so >>> that they can cut it without it sliding. They're amazing. >>> >>> There are several sizes and shapes of them at >>> http://www.gingher.com/products/serrdrsmkrs.htm >>> >>> [standard disclaimer: just a happy customer] >>> >>> Happy cutting, >>> Melanie Schuessler >>> http://www.faucet.net/costume >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 14:23:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DINIHP010168 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:23:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DILf0P002847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DILe4e002187; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:21:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DILT4e002055 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:21:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip223.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.223]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 542E96AD8E for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:21:25 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:21:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting chiffon and other woodgy fabric (was fitting a GFD/cotte) Message-ID: <3F1140B4.7753.5D1B432@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3F102CB1.4030700@faucet.net> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'm a big fan of quilt basting spray. you can use this (it's like > hair spray, but kinder to fabric) and set the woodgie fabric onto thin > paper and cut them together. I also use quilt basting spray to make > underlining go faster for modern garments. This sound wonderful! Could you use it to cut out several layers of fabric as well? (I always hate it that the chiffon/charmeuse/woodgyfabricofyourexperience makes it so that you have to cut out each layer separately. If they were just staying together while they were cut, it would be soooooo much easier!) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 14:23:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DINSHP010172 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:23:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DILV0P002809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:21:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DILV4e002106; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:21:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DILT4e002071 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:21:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip223.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.223]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C4F96ADD4 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:21:27 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:21:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope plus period corsets Message-ID: <3F1140B4.5333.5D1B51C@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3F11879F.EA7020DE@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Whalebone (there's apparently some good artificial stuff available) or > reeds/broom straw are, I think, both documentable in the 16th c. > IIRC, Drea's got some stuff on her website about doing a corset with > reed bents.... --sue Do you have any documentation to whalebone's use in corsets in the early 16th C? (Especially 1525-1550.) I have all sorts of documentation for its use in late 16th C and for other things starting in the 12th C, but I'm having a devil of a time finding it for the early 16th C. (Inventories of H8 don't specify what is in the bodies, nor do most of the other inventories from that time period.) Each time I think I have something tracked down it is for 1570 or later, mostly. (I can find reed bent and pasted linen, but not whalebone.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 15:42:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DJgQHP010351 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:42:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DJe80P008730 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:40:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DJe6qp008749; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:40:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DJe2qp008722 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:40:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A59134031E; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:40:01 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:40:00 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c34976$8cba6420$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It looks to me- amateur that I am- like a fabric that would be the ostentatious sleeve lining and or matching forepart- against a more solid and sober backdrop it would really sparkle! Just my .02 lira. Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 6:18 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric I bought this gorgeous silk brocade on ebay thinking it looked like this: http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/i-1.JPG Instead, I got this: http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/silkbrocade.jpg (Not that anything in the auction mentioned the photo was waaaaay off on the color, but that's beside the point) I'm not a purple person, but I decided to keep it because it sure is pretty, no matter how you look at it. The only trouble is that I want to use it in a Tudor or Elizabethan gown, but I can't seem to think of any purple being used during that time period. Does anyone know of any purple being used in clothing during the 16th century? Sources? Images? Ideas? The fact that it's purple will probably not keep me from using it in a costume, but I'm just stumped that I can't actually consciously remember seeing purple being used in clothing in any of the thousands of portraits I've looked at over the years. Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 16:30:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DKUgHP010447 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:30:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DKSq0P012337 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:28:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DKSoGI029664; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:28:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DKSlGI029633 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:28:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030713202846.IYXE21249.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:28:46 +0100 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030713212719.00de9c70@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:28:46 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] bugle beads In-Reply-To: <8FE5D49F-B55E-11D7-B3EB-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-75D313A; boundary="=======617E79CC=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======617E79CC======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-75D313A; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Has the design of bugle beads changed over the centuries? Someone on the Regency list has found a description of them as black glass and oblong. So haven't they always been long and tubular? Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======617E79CC======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======617E79CC=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 16:51:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DKpqHP010488 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:51:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DKoA0P014512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:50:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DKo7GI012004; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:50:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6DKo4GI011966 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:50:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-122-74-147.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (angelalazear@sbcglobal.net@67.122.74.147 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2003 20:50:03 -0000 Message-ID: <00dc01c34980$b2d438c0$934a7a43@angelap3a8d978> From: "Angela F. Lazear" To: Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:52:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] Theater Costumers survey, please help out! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gentle List - Can those of you who have any experience in theatrical costume please complete the survey below and return to Christine at her email below? This is for an article in a theatrical magazine, I believe the name is something like Stage Tech (I can't find my old email from her, but I spoke to her at length on the phone) +++++++++++++++++++++ Many thanks for your interest. Here is a quick quiz, shouldn't take you long at all. Please note, it's done in a lighthearted manner and still manages to address some serious professional issues. It's based in part on the interviews I've done with costumers. Please star or put your answers in bold when you return the survey. It would be great if you could copy/let others know about the survey as well. Please return to: csparta@aol.com as soon as you can. Best, Christine Sparta 1) What % of the time are you stressed about your job as a costumer? a) less than 10%--My job is a breeze most of the time. b) 30-40%--Yes, work gets stressful but it's nothing I can't handle. c) 50%-75%--Can I have a cup of coffee with a side order of stress? d) 90% -100%--Yikes, stress really consumes me. 2) My biggest stressors are: (You can indicate more than one) a) Diva behavior from actors, directors and others b) Too many projects at once--I can't say no. c) Unrealistic expectations from directors/other theater staff d) Not enough staff to support the project e) Other 3) I release stress by: a) sewing or other handicraft b) exercise c) taking a trip d) yelling at everyone around me e) other 4) I find (fill in the blank with an activity) helpful to relax because: a) it takes my mind off my work b) it gives me a feeling of artistic accomplishment without the stress of working with others c) it's just a fun diversion d) it beats throwing darts at someone's picture e) other 5) If I could choose my profession again, I'd still be a costumer: a) yes b) no c) unsure--Could I outfit Brad Pitt? 6) The most rewarding thing about my work is: a) knowing I did a great job b) hearing the audience applause and knowing I contributed to that c) the acknowledgment of my crew d) it makes my mother happy e) other 7) If I knew then what I know know I'd... Please fill in the blank 8) Preventing costumer burnout is: a) a matter of pacing yourself, like you're doing a dance b) easy if you just choosing projects you're passionate about and devoting yourself to them c) possible if you have some artistic projects outside of your work that help you grow as a professional d) impossible in this fast-paced unpredictable business e) other 9) Generally, what time of the year is most stressful for you? a) winter b) summer c)spring d) fall e) other 10) Anything you would like to add that has helped you deal with stress as a costumer. +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 19:06:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DN6dHP011039 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:06:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DN4i0P024473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:04:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DN4g1I014278; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:04:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DN4O1I014125 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:04:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-026scfairp0228.dialsprint.net ([63.176.16.228] helo=faucet.net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19bptH-0003VY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:04:23 -0700 Message-ID: <3F11F2FA.3000708@faucet.net> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:02:02 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] bugle beads References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030713212719.00de9c70@pop.ntlworld.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lynne Connolly wrote: > > Has the design of bugle beads changed over the centuries? Someone on the > Regency list has found a description of them as black glass and oblong. > So haven't they always been long and tubular? There's a green satin sleeve from c. 1600 in the V&A with what we think of as bugle beads (also green) on it. It's figure 443 in _Queen Eliz Ward Unlock'd_. There's also a droolsome two-page color close-up in _Fashion in Detail From the 17th and 18th Centuries_ as a background to the title page for the "Stitching, Seams, Quilting & Cording" section and a more modest photo and description on pp. 28-29. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 20:40:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E0eqHP011285 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:40:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E0cs0P001132 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:38:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E0coRD024375; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:38:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f9.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E0cnRD024311 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:38:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:38:43 -0700 Received: from 68.101.167.186 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:38:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.101.167.186] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:38:43 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jul 2003 00:38:43.0831 (UTC) FILETIME=[476B3870:01C349A0] Subject: [h-cost] Pirates Costume Question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK, I saw PotC last night. I had some major beefs but tried to look at it through the eyes of a 14 year old. Then it was great! However, I stand by my earlier statement... Johnny rocks! So now I have a costume question. Towards the end of the movie, Elizabeth is wearing just a shift of sorts (I'm ignoring the bra line that I saw when she was walking onto the deserted island...). The interesting thing was this slit on each arm that started about three inches below the shoulder. This ran somewhere to mid forearm length. It was laced closed. I'm not sure that I'm explainng this very well... Does anyone remember this detail? Is there historical accuracy to this? I can't really figure out the point of it. I kept thinking about and just couldn't make any sense it out. Thanks! :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 21:22:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E1MNHP011441 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:22:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E1I70P003973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:18:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E1I1At010156; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DFvhwJ029095 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:57:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a216.in-tch.com [66.62.107.16]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6DFcR603640; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:38:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F1181DD.5E865691@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:59:25 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aerie , BSK List , Artemisian Laurels , GermanRenList , "h-costume@indra.com" , HNW list , Lace List , Peers List , "SCA Cooks' List" , SCA Laurels List , "artretinue-request@lists.gallowglass.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:18:00 -0600 Subject: [h-cost] Testing.... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just testing....Emails have suspiciously dwindled to almost nothing.... --maire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 22:36:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E2awHP011582 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:36:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E2ZE0P009149 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:35:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E2ZClU011027; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:35:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E2Z7lU010980 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:35:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-176-239.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.176.239]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9B612F993 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:35:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:35:01 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting chiffon and other woodgy fabric (was fitting a GFD/cotte) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3F1140B4.7753.5D1B432@localhost> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I probably wouldn't do that, but you could always cut out some samples and see if they stayed true! On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 11:21 AM, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > >> I'm a big fan of quilt basting spray. you can use this (it's like >> hair spray, but kinder to fabric) and set the woodgie fabric onto thin >> paper and cut them together. I also use quilt basting spray to make >> underlining go faster for modern garments. > > This sound wonderful! Could you use it to cut out several layers of > fabric as well? (I always hate it that the > chiffon/charmeuse/woodgyfabricofyourexperience makes it so that you > have to cut out each layer separately. If they were just staying > together while they were cut, it would be soooooo much easier!) > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 13 23:34:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E3YAHP011815 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:34:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E3WU0P013895 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:32:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E3WQjr007528; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:32:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E3WMjr007495 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:32:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail21.ureach.com (mail21.ureach.com [172.16.2.81]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02343 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:32:22 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-200-213.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.213]) by mail21.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA21350 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:32:16 -0400 Message-ID: <00e801c349b7$f19d0c30$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F118473.AED2D87B@in-tch.com> <003101c3495b$48960a30$bc180150@Imedia5043> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:27:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I believe those sumptuary laws didn't limit the color purple.... it limited purple colored silk. Such as: None shall wear . . .cloth of gold or silver, or silk of purple color. . . except . . .Earls, all above that rank, and Knights of the King (and then only in their mantles). None shall wear . . .cloth of gold or silver, or silk of purple color. . . except . . .Countesses and all above that rank. (Viscountesses may wear it in their kirtles) also None shall wear in his apparel: Any silk of the color of purple, cloth of gold tissued, nor fur of sables, but only the King, Queen, King's mother, children, brethren, and sisters, uncles and aunts; and except dukes, marquises, and earls, who may wear the same in doublets, jerkins, linings of cloaks, gowns, and hose; and those of the Garter, purple in mantles only. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric > there are sumptuary laws in England during Henry V111 reign to do with > purple as it was extremely expensive, hence it being called royal purple but > can't remember when they were repealed > Dawn > Ages Of Elegance makers of Historical reproduction Clothing, Uniforms and > Bridalwear > http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 > > > > > ISTR records of Mary I having gowns of purple (think it's mentioned in > > the back sections of QE Unlocked). > > Also, I've *seen* actual cut-and-voided velvet (mid-16th c, IIRC) that > > > any purple being used during that time period. Does anyone know of any > > > purple being used in clothing during the 16th century? Sources? > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 00:04:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E44THP011870 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:04:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E42f0P016545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:02:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E42da2022487; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:02:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E42aa2022396 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:02:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.184.1de02732 (2612) for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:02:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Message-ID: <184.1de02732.2c43854c@aol.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:02:20 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pirates Costume Question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 912 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just saw the film. That shift was so off the wall. I noticed the bra line too. Glad to know I wasn't hallucinating. What about the "Three Musketeers" cape & hat Orlando Bloom was wearing at the end? Did he get that from his character's father's sea chest? Well, Disney never was one for historical accuracy in costuming. KAthy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 01:06:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E56fHP012006 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:06:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E54t0P021095 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:04:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E54rFC018675; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:04:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E54nFC018637 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:04:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-239-233.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.239.233]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6E54kDb029234 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:04:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030713220026.00d697c0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:01:26 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pirates Costume Question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >So now I have a costume question. Towards the end of the movie, >Elizabeth is wearing just a shift of sorts (I'm ignoring the bra line that >I saw when she was walking onto the deserted island...). The interesting >thing was this slit on each arm that started about three inches below the >shoulder. >This ran somewhere to mid forearm length. It was laced closed. > >I'm not sure that I'm explainng this very well... > >Does anyone remember this detail? The website with the actual costumes, that somebody posted a while ago (was that this list?) shows this clearly. Don't know if it's period or not, buy my uneducated guess is not, as that shift's sleeves are too long for the sleeves of dresses - they'd show. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 01:08:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E58pHP012011 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:08:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E57B0P021236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:07:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E57BFC019435; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:07:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E578FD019412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:07:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6E57Sbh023440 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:07:28 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6E57SpK023438 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:07:28 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:07:27 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <146.152fd94c.2c402248@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <146.152fd94c.2c402248@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307140107.27807.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 11 July 2003 10:23 am, LoreleiMorte@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/11/2003 9:04:53 AM Central Standard Time, > > bkessinger@ureach.com writes: > > Oooh! That book is on my wishlist for my birthday. Thanks! > > Does anybody find that they have no willpower for books on wishlists? I > just find that anything I try to put on my "I'll get it on my getting day>!" ends up being gotten about 5 seconds later due to the whole > Book Instant Gratification Need? Or am I just a big spoiled baby? I've done that often enough to sympathize. :-) There is only one solution: Only put books on a wishlist that are literally *too* expensive for you to buy. -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 01:11:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E5B2HP012016 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:11:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E59P0P021384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:09:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E59PFC020376; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:09:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E59MFD020361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:09:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6E59gbh023525 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:09:42 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6E59gBV023523 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:09:42 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:09:41 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3F0E8486.16980.1E395A73@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3F0E8486.16980.1E395A73@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307140109.41708.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 11 July 2003 12:33 pm, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: [text cut here] > For early periods the best books are in archeology. _Textiles in > Archeology_ by John Peter Wild is a good place to start. Margrethe > Hald's _Ancient Textiles from Bogs and Burials_ is also good. I don't > know if you can get it but "An 11th C shirt from Viborg Sonderso, > Denmark" by Mytte Fentz in _Archaeological Textile in Northern Europe- > Report from the 4th NESAT Symposium_ (Ed. by Lise Bender Jorgensen > and Elizabeth Muncksgaard) (pages 83-92) is another good one. Oxbow Books (www.oxbowbooks.com is the URL, I think) is selling the 4th NESAT proceedings right now for $68.50 USD. The British branch may also be selling it--I don't know what the price in pounds is. -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 01:32:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E5WSHP012067 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:32:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E5Tr0P022510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:29:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E5TrFC028318; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:29:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E5TnFC028285 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:29:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.141]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id h6E5pVP24658 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:51:31 +1000 Message-ID: <077e01c349c9$526c76c0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F0E8486.16980.1E395A73@localhost> <200307140109.41708.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:32:27 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the tip Cathy! They also have NESAT 5, and they're both around 30 pounds. I'm really glad we're not visiting Oxford this visit. My husband is even more of a book-fiend than me, and I think we'd be sleeping in the car for the rest of the trip, having spent our 3.5 week accommodation budget at Oxbow. We'd probably be going hungry too! Glenda. > Oxbow Books (www.oxbowbooks.com is the URL, I think) is selling the 4th NESAT > proceedings right now for $68.50 USD. The British branch may also be selling > it--I don't know what the price in pounds is. > > > -- > Cathy Raymond _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 03:24:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E7OfHP025718 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:24:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E7Mt0P029057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:22:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E7MrX2014756; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:22:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41506.mail.yahoo.com (web41506.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6E7MoX2014672 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:22:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030714072244.40518.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41506.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:22:44 BST Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:22:44 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pirates Costume Question To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- jessica stier wrote: > > she was walking onto the deserted island...). The interesting thing was > this slit on each arm that started about three inches below the shoulder. > This ran somewhere to mid forearm length. It was laced closed. > > I'm not sure that I'm explainng this very well... > > Does anyone remember this detail? Is there historical accuracy to this? I > can't really figure out the point of it. Whioch year is it supposed to be, or even which century? However, in all my 17th and early 18th. c. studies I have never ever ever ever come across such a thing. Costume designer freedom of choice, my guess. Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 05:48:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E9mcHP010547 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 05:48:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E9kq0P009736 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:46:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E9kojM005054; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:46:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp.austarmetro.com.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E9kjjM005016 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:46:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ewalpole (dialup-41.40.220.203.acc05-nort-cbr.comindico.com.au [203.220.40.41])h6E9kfpg029011 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:46:44 +1000 Message-ID: <000101c349ec$01911260$2928dccb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: Modern corset (was Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:57:41 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: Lynne Connolly To: Historical Costume Date: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 5:27 AM Subject: Re: Modern corset (was Re: [h-cost] Extant 16th corset at BayNatMuseum - observations >At 11:52 07/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: >>I would think a regency corset would give the most modern shape, >>or could be adapted to, since it's the lift & separate style that most >>modern bras aim for. > >It was rumoured that the women in "Pride and Prejudice" used Wonderbras to >get the shape! > >Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Actually I heard that the woman who played Elizabeth Bennett (Jennifer Erle) was strapped in to reduce her bust size as it was thought she did not fit the fashionable Regency silhouette. Then again Gwyneth Paltrow could have used a wonder bra in the film Emma in half the dresses looked awful because she was just too thin to fill them in the appropriate places Elizabeth Walpole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 05:48:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E9mwHP010710 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 05:48:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E9lH0P009779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:47:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E9lHjM005192; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:47:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp.austarmetro.com.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E9kjjM005008 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:46:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ewalpole (dialup-41.40.220.203.acc05-nort-cbr.comindico.com.au [203.220.40.41])h6E9kfpe029011 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:46:42 +1000 Message-ID: <000001c349ec$006c1a60$2928dccb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] *English* Working class Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:22:50 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: Kendra Van Cleave To: Historical Costume Date: Saturday, July 05, 2003 4:26 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] *English* Working class >I first started my Elizabethan costuming based on the Winter/Savoy book, >which as we all know cuts LOTS of corners. So to me, a "partlet" was a >high-necked shift that was open down the center front. The issue here is >that if one wants to wear one's "partlet" (in the above definition -- hence >the quotes) open, you basically have nothing between you and your corset or >bodice in front. > >Once I discovered the whole partlet-as-a-garment-separate-from-the-shift, it >made sense to me. You'd have your low-necked shift between you and your >corset/bodice, and then the partlet on top of that (which could be worn open >or closed). The thing that puzzled me (and granted, I'm haven't read as >much as I should on this period) is that I know in the period of Mary I, a >partlet was an outer garment (meaning worn over the bodice). > >So -- was there a change where partlets (separate from shifts) began to be >worn under the bodice? Or is the whole partlet thing (in Elizabeth's era) >just a big costumer's myth? > >- Kendra > Yes In earlier 16th century portraits you can see many pictures of women wearing lined partlets in relatively heavy materials, Mary I wears this style of partlet in all but 1 or 2 of her portraits. In some portraits of this era you can also see what could be either a high necked smock or a partlet made of similar materials to the smock. When you think about the fact that part of a smock's purpose was to protect the clothing from the wearer i.e. keep sweat & body oils etc away from the pretty silks etc. wearing something like that beneath a partlet makes sense. Later in the Century you begin to see something which could not feasibly be either a high necked smock or a separate garment worn beneath the neckline of the bodice worn on its own without an over partlet covering it. I've theorised that women who wanted to wear an over partlet (Mary I style) may have wanted to remove it as the day proceeded (e.g. wear it in the morning when it's cold but once the day warms up remove it) but did not want to show their high necked smock. It's not such a huge leap to wearing a smock with a low neckline & a partlet made of the same sort of easily laundered fabrics as a smock, underneath the over partlet. Later it became fashionable to wear a lightweight partlet on its own. I suspect the over partlets would still have been used for warmth but because they were no longer fashionable they don't appear in portraits. Just wild theorising from someone who has managed to complete only one 16th century English gown & no partlets at all (though that is on my to do list) Elizabeth Walpole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 08:13:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ECDUHP016319 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:13:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ECBT0P020623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 06:11:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ECBRum008323; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 06:11:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta01ps.bigpond.com (mta01ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ECBNum008290 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 06:11:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clarke ([144.135.25.81]) by mta01ps.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta01ps Jul 16 2002 22:47:55) with SMTP id HI0KIR00.DCR for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:11:15 +1000 Received: from 144.139.221.38 ([144.139.221.38]) by psmam05.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.2g 101/15383972); 14 Jul 2003 22:11:11 Message-ID: <036601c34a01$06724280$26dd8b90@clarke> From: "Claire Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030712.090513.1208.1.Cley@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] sharp object on airplanes: hatpins Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:11:09 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia J Ley" To: Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 2:05 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] sharp object on airplanes: hatpins > My mother and grandmother both told me that they found hat pins very > useful items in their youth for warding off unwanted advances, so not as > anecdotal as you might think. > > As an aside, a fork can be a singularly useful tool too, in the right > circumstances. > My great great aunt by all accounts used to carry a large quantity of pennies in her handbag for similar reasons - no one could accuse her of carrying a concealed weapon, but by the same token, you wouldn't want to get whomped by that bag. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 10:20:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EEJxHP016552 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:20:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EEHe0P000355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:17:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EEHcCM007003; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:17:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EEHZCM006969 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:17:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.103] (pm4-103.eos.net [205.133.149.103]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12618 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:17:32 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:11:40 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200307140509.h6E59WFD020427@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: pirates of the caribbean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have been reading all the posts and as Johnny Depp fan (and swashbuckler movie fan) I am ready to go see the film. But would somebody please email me privately with the answer to this question: Is it appropriate for children? I know a couple of parents who are confused about this, because it's Disney's first PG-13 movie but all the little kids want to see it. Now that I've read about corsets being ripped off, and of course about skeletal undead pirates, I can't imagine this being appropriate for Disney's usual crowd. But none of the reviews I've read have mentioned it. So what do you think is the lower age limit? Fourteen? Ten? Again, off-list is fine. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 11:21:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EFL2HP016660 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:21:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EFGh0P006881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:16:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EFGdJk019039; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:16:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6EFGaJk018943 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:16:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OoxOVbDE+spHiw59egkTDwc=">; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:16:28 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H43C7ZR4; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:16:28 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:01:00 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] sharp object on airplanes: hatpins Message-ID: <20030714.081624.896.9.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2,4-10,16-19,22-25 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > My great great aunt by all accounts used to carry a large quantity > of pennies in her handbag for similar reasons - no one could accuse her of > carrying a concealed weapon, but by the same token, you wouldn't want to get > whomped by that bag. > > Claire Oh, very good! I'll bet she had quite the arm too, for carrying all that. The fork story--a friend has a very attractive and underage daughter who was the unfortunate recipient of unwanted advances of a much older guy and who would not take "No" for an answer. I taught her the value of forks. Next time he tried something was at a feast--she pinned his hand to the table with her fork, and said, "Now that I have your attention, the answer is NO." Her mother tells me that he's been a perfect gentleman ever since. Obligatory costume content--does anyone know of anyone who makes medieval style straight pins? Does anyone have websites of persons who make costume accessories? Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 11:38:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EFcDHP016694 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:38:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EFUt0P008752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:30:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EFUqJk001124; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:30:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EFUnJk001048 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:30:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip70.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.70]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6FC16ACFF for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:08:25 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:30:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] bugle beads Message-ID: <3F126A31.25980.A5BE88C@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <5.2.1.1.0.20030713212719.00de9c70@pop.ntlworld.com> References: <8FE5D49F-B55E-11D7-B3EB-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Has the design of bugle beads changed over the centuries? Someone on > the Regency list has found a description of them as black glass and > oblong. So haven't they always been long and tubular? I don't think it's a bugle bead unless it is long and tubular. There is a photograph of one in Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion 1560- 1620. I think there is a color one of it in Historical Fashion in Detail 17th and 18th C. At any rate, that one is green and looks long and tubular. However, there was a change in the way glass beads were made during the 19th C. It did change somewhat how they looked. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 12:24:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EGO1HP016852 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:24:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EGIC0P014663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:18:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EGIAnt008975; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:18:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EGI5nt008904 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:18:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-028scfairp0500.dialsprint.net ([63.179.113.246] helo=faucet.net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19c61d-0005aP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:18:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3F12E53D.1010503@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:15:41 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <20030714.081624.896.9.Cley@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] medieval straight pins (was: sharp object on airplanes: hatpins) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Obligatory costume content--does anyone know of anyone who makes medieval > style straight pins? Does anyone have websites of persons who make > costume accessories? I have a friend who makes brass straight pins in several sizes. He's a fiend for research, so I imagine he could provide documentation as well. Let me know if you'd like his contact information. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 12:24:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EGOAHP016856 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:24:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EGJf0P014831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:19:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EGJfnt010109; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:19:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EGJbnt010058 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:19:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A819CDC0078; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:19:37 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A818C6015C; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:19:36 -0500 Message-ID: <005101c34a24$0e4b4d80$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: pirates of the caribbean Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:22:00 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail, I took my 11 y.o. daughter and she loved the film. She wants to see it again. I didn't find anything inappropriate. I think very young children might be scared by the ghosts. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 12:36:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EGaGHP016883 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:36:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EGX80P016508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:33:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EGX6nt020685; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:33:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EGX4nt020605 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:33:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200307141633.h6EGX4nt020605@net.indra.com> Received: from rwcrwbc04 (unknown[204.127.197.114](misconfigured sender)) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20030714163258014004olpse>; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:32:58 +0000 Received: from [198.178.8.81] by rwcrwbc04; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:32:55 +0000 From: eirenetz@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] sharp object on airplanes: hatpins Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:32:55 +0000 X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jun 26 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWlyZW5ldHpAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Historic Enterprises has one style - //www.historicenterprises.com/ Eirene > > Obligatory costume content--does anyone know of anyone who makes medieval > style straight pins? Does anyone have websites of persons who make > costume accessories? > > Arlys > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 13:48:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EHm1HP017086 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:48:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EHk9Od004375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:46:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EHk53K023731; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:46:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EHk23K023689 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:46:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-33qt1id.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.134.77] helo=Meza2K) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19c7Og-0002my-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:46:01 -0400 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:48:43 -0500 From: jlkelley X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.62r) Personal Organization: slight X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <149495193.20030714124843@ix.netcom.com> To: Historical Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: pirates of the caribbean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok I know I am late getting into this conversation but I wanted to add my two cents worth. I was under the impression that her father had ordered her a new dress without realizing that she had filled out since then so in order to wear the dress she had to be corseted with in an inch of her life to fit into it . . . therefor she was complaining that it was to tightly laced -- Best regards, jlkelley mailto:jlkelley@ix.netcom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 14:19:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EIJ1HP017174 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:19:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EIHHOd008385 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:17:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EIHDWd020467; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:17:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from uni06mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni06mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.169]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EIHAWd020404 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:17:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])h6EIH8oi014222 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:17:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni06mr.unity.ncsu.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (uni06mr.unity.ncsu.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14123-05 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:17:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from WEBDIVA.ncsu.edu (lucy-lt.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.129.144]) h6EIGux0014148 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:16:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20030714140926.00afcc38@ringland.mail.ncsu.edu> X-Sender: ringland@ringland.mail.ncsu.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:17:22 -0400 To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: LPRingland Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] please help with places to visit in France this summer/fall X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi! I have been lurking on the list for quite a long while and have a question for those knowledgeable of France. I will be in Nice, Arles, Avignon, Lyon, Paris, and parts of the Loire valley from the end of August thru the middle of September (a gift from my mother-in-law!). I would like to see as many costume-related and fabric-oriented sites as time permits. Can you recommend places to add to a "must-see" list? Thanks so much for your help with this, and for the wonderful information I have gotten from you all over the years. Lucy Raleigh, NC, USA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 14:23:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EIN6HP017191 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:23:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EIL5Od008762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:21:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EIKxWd023231; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:20:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EIKvWd023208 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:20:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030714182055.QTOR16215.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:20:55 +0100 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030714192048.00d6ea50@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:20:55 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] bugle beads In-Reply-To: <3F126A31.25980.A5BE88C@localhost> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030713212719.00de9c70@pop.ntlworld.com> <8FE5D49F-B55E-11D7-B3EB-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-47E26918; boundary="=======44257532=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======44257532======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-47E26918; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 08:30 14/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: >However, there was a change in the way glass beads were made during >the 19th C. It did change somewhat how they looked. Thank you! Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======44257532======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======44257532=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 15:08:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EJ89HP017315 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:08:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EJ6OOd014679 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:06:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EJ6MI5001399; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:06:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.mackie.com (mail2.mackie.com [12.144.237.152]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EJ6II5001321 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:06:18 -0600 (MDT) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] please help with places to visit in France this summer/fall Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:43:39 -0700 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] please help with places to visit in France this summer/fall Thread-Index: AcNKNJpZqmPULM3SQP++DRSs5fn+bAAAvulg From: "Colleen McDonald" To: "Historical Costume" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6EJ6II5001321 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I will be in Nice, Arles, Avignon, Lyon, Paris, and parts of the Loire valley from the end of August thru the middle of September (a gift from my mother-in-law!). I would like to see as many costume-related and fabric-oriented sites as time permits. Can you recommend places to add to a "must-see" list?>> Lyon - The Musee de Tissue Historique is there and from what I've heard, is a must-see. Oooo, I'm so jealous - have a wonderful time! Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 15:49:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EJnXHP017544 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:49:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EJjDOd019782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:45:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EJjCI5004636; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:45:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EJitI5004340 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:44:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E02761B2558 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:44:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008801c34a40$63d54730$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] please help with places to visit in France thissummer/fall Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:44:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colleen McDonald" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 2:43 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] please help with places to visit in France thissummer/fall > I will be in Nice, Arles, Avignon, Lyon, > Paris, and parts of the Loire valley from the end of August thru the middle > of September (a gift from my mother-in-law!). I would like to see as many > costume-related and fabric-oriented sites as time permits. Can you > recommend places to add to a "must-see" list?>> Oooh, the Chateau de Chambord is in the Loire Valley. And take pictures for me please!! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 15:56:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EJuDHP017565 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:56:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EJqWOd020888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:52:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EJqVI5010870; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:52:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EJq7I5010400 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:52:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09479 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:17:06 -0500 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:17:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: pirates of the caribbean In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 14 Jul 2003, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > I have been reading all the posts and as Johnny Depp fan (and > swashbuckler movie fan) I am ready to go see the film. But would > somebody please email me privately with the answer to this question: > Is it appropriate for children? I know a couple of parents who are > confused about this, because it's Disney's first PG-13 movie but all > the little kids want to see it. Now that I've read about corsets being > ripped off, and of course about skeletal undead pirates, I can't > imagine this being appropriate for Disney's usual crowd. But none of > the reviews I've read have mentioned it. This site should give you enough information to make a decision appropriate for your family. I use it a lot, and I like it because it gives me a lot of detail as well as just recommendations: http://www.filmvalues.com I see they don't have Pirates up yet, but I expect it won't take long. Here's a similar site, though I don't like their rating system as well, and they have a lot of pop-up ads. But they do have their Pirates review up now: http://www.kids-in-mind.com --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 16:24:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EKOrHP017630 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:24:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EKN2Od025406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:23:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EKN1cB007921; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EKMwcB007821 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:22:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.7c.3b384fea (4410) for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:22:37 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <7c.3b384fea.2c446b0d@aol.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:22:37 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Doublets-n-kirtles-n-skirts, oh my! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just pondering.... I'm a form believer in the Whole Gown vs the skirt'n'bodice theory in 'bethan garment construction. I always sew my bodices to my skirts...makes it way easier and hangs better in my personal experience. Now, doublets..... my pondering is (for doublets that match the skirt)....doublet over matching kirtle (note I said kirtle, not skirt)OR skirt and doublet sewn as one? PoF seems to say sewn-as-one. -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 17:42:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ELgDHP017790 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:42:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ELeIOd005153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:40:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ELeD2M013233; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:40:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.fuse.net (mx4.fuse.net [216.68.1.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ELe82M013155 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:40:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eyrie.fuse.net ([66.161.173.48]) by smtp02.fuse.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.27 201-253-122-126-127-20021220) with ESMTP id <20030714214008.KFNB233.smtp02.fuse.net@eyrie.fuse.net> for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:40:08 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030714174330.00b1b620@pop.fuse.net> X-Sender: jemarshall@pop.fuse.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:44:56 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: "J.E. M-C" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope In-Reply-To: References: <20030711092645.L45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> <20030711092645.L45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 13:52 11-07-03 -0400, you wrote: >Drea wrote: > > Ditto Buffy...though, I've found that Austen flicks are the best for > > stitching, because you don't need to keep your eyes fixed on the movie to > > follow the plot. > >Entirely agreed. Though if you'd watched Buffy through and through like >I have (there are repeats every night, and I own a good chunk of the >DVDs) you wouldn't have to watch it to follow the plot either :) Same >goes for Blackadder and Red Dwarf, the entirety of which I have on >video. My preference is B movies. Very cheap to rent/buy, and usually little to no true plot to follow. Jennifer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 17:42:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ELgmHP017795 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:42:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ELf5Od005268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:41:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ELf52M013917; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:41:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6ELek2M013618 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:40:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 9797 invoked by uid 1005); 14 Jul 2003 21:40:34 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.117222 secs); 14 Jul 2003 21:40:34 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.117222 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 14 Jul 2003 21:40:34 -0000 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:40:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Doublets-n-kirtles-n-skirts, oh my! In-Reply-To: <7c.3b384fea.2c446b0d@aol.com> Message-ID: <20030714163417.Y4561-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There's two types of garments that can look like a doublet & skirt: the a high-bodied gown, with a bodice that fastens up to the neck, attached skirt, and tabs at the waist...or a separate doublet bodice, worn over another gown/kirtle. The former, obviously, would have bodice and skirt attached. A separate doublet w/ petticoat (sans bodies) shows up in 1590s records, and doublets for women show up in the mid 70s...but I've found no hard data indicating whether they were worn over petticoats/kirtles with or sans bodies. Probably both. Drea On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 LoreleiMorte@aol.com wrote: > Just pondering.... > > I'm a form believer in the Whole Gown vs the skirt'n'bodice theory in 'bethan > garment construction. I always sew my bodices to my skirts...makes it way > easier and hangs better in my personal experience. Now, doublets..... my > pondering is (for doublets that match the skirt)....doublet over matching kirtle (note > I said kirtle, not skirt)OR skirt and doublet sewn as one? PoF seems to say > sewn-as-one. > > -Sarra Wryght > Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html > Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 18:04:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EM4OHP017823 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:04:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EM2BOd007937 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:02:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EM28RH000887; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:02:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EM25RH000817 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:02:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.239.233]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HI100EE1BVDWY@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:02:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:01:55 -0700 From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Fwd: [h-cost] Re: pirates of the caribbean X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030714144444.0532d950@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Now that >I've read about corsets being ripped off, The actress is wearing an opaque shift both when she faints and has her corset cut off and when the pirate decides to rip off her corset after taking the plum dress back. Modern medical advice warns against cutting off corsets in the case of fainting, as this can cause serious complications. Modern costumers will wonder how a real corset can be ripped off at all. > and of course about skeletal >undead pirates, Slightly scary, but not so bad for a ten-year-old. I babysit for a four-year-old, and she'd have to wait for the video, so it could be explained to her. I also babysit for a five-year-old, and she might be able to cope. >I can't imagine this being appropriate for Disney's usual >crowd. But none of the reviews I've read have mentioned it. So what do you >think is the lower age limit? Fourteen? Ten? Again, off-list is fine. I don't remember any real indecency in the whole film. My fifteen-year-old is taking me to see it (again for me, first time for her) for my birthday. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 18:35:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMZKHP017867 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:35:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMXUOd011664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:33:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMXJRH022938; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:33:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law8-oe51.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMXFRH022861 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:33:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:33:10 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by law8-oe51.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:33:09 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <670A81F9-B4D0-11D7-8616-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:33:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jul 2003 22:33:10.0166 (UTC) FILETIME=[E76AEB60:01C34A57] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Meadows" > You have a non-costumer friend? > > what are you thinking? ;) I don't know what she's thinking, but I've found that my own non costumer friends help me stay sane. If I had only costumer friends, my house would be filled to the roof with fabric and patterns and books and sketches and notions and old hats and old dresses and old shoes and weird shirts and bizarre pants and... well... you get the idea :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 18:36:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMa5HP017871 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:36:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMYHOd011773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:34:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMYGRH023541; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:34:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMXGRH022880 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:33:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49](untrusted sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20030714223311014000likce>; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:33:11 +0000 Message-ID: <03c901c34a57$e7e57290$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "Ches" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20030714144444.0532d950@mail.frys.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:23:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] Movie costume question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Brotherhood of the Wolf Can anyone direct me to websites of folks who have tried to make costumes from this movie AND to actual costumes from the movie please. Thank you. Sincerely, Chiara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 18:41:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMfgHP017877 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:41:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMdsOd012406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:39:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMdqRH027828; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:39:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law8-oe24.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMdlRH027712 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:39:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:39:42 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by law8-oe24.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:39:42 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F102CB1.4030700@faucet.net> <3F1140B4.7753.5D1B432@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting chiffon and other woodgy fabric (was fitting aGFD/cotte) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:40:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jul 2003 22:39:42.0435 (UTC) FILETIME=[D13A6B30:01C34A58] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One thing just occured to me... What about starch? Or something that would have a similar result? I think I remember seeing it or hearing about it somewhere, to help stiffen slippery fabrics and make them more manageable... Or maybe I'm just dreaming? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 18:46:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMkFHP017887 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:46:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMiZOd012955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:44:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMiYRH001467; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:44:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMiVRH001360 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:44:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.174.1ddc2523 (4410) for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:44:20 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <174.1ddc2523.2c448c44@aol.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:44:20 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Doublets-n-kirtles-n-skirts, oh my! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/14/2003 4:41:31 PM Central Standard Time, drea@nospam writes: > There's two types of garments that can look like a doublet &skirt: the a > high-bodied gown, with a bodice that fastens up to the neck, attached > skirt, and tabs at the waist...or a separate doublet bodice, worn over > another gown/kirtle. > > The former, obviously, would have bodice and skirt attached. A separate > doublet w/ petticoat (sans bodies) shows up in 1590s records, and doublets > for women show up in the mid 70s...but I've found no hard data indicating > whether they were worn over petticoats/kirtles with or sans bodies. > Probably both. > Cool. So, it's pretty much a case of "whatever blows my hair back", eh? Make a high bodied gown or a doublet over a kirtle. -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 18:58:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMwQHP017899 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:58:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMtPOd014244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:55:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMtNFW009514; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:55:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law8-oe23.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMtKFW009395 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:55:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:55:15 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by law8-oe23.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:55:15 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030714140926.00afcc38@ringland.mail.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] please help with places to visit in France this summer/fall Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:50:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jul 2003 22:55:15.0312 (UTC) FILETIME=[FD442700:01C34A5A] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, for paintings and portraits, don't miss the Louvre and Versailles. It's not very original, but you can't go to Paris and not go there... ----- Original Message ----- From: "LPRingland" To: Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 2:17 PM Subject: [h-cost] please help with places to visit in France this summer/fall > Hi! > I have been lurking on the list for quite a long while and have a question > for those knowledgeable of France. I will be in Nice, Arles, Avignon, Lyon, > Paris, and parts of the Loire valley from the end of August thru the middle > of September (a gift from my mother-in-law!). I would like to see as many > costume-related and fabric-oriented sites as time permits. Can you > recommend places to add to a "must-see" list? > > Thanks so much for your help with this, and for the wonderful information I > have gotten from you all over the years. > Lucy > Raleigh, NC, USA > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 19:00:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EN0QHP017907 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:00:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMwkOd014852 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:58:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMwiFW011979; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:58:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMweFW011920 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:58:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A59F8320080; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:58:39 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A59FDC0308; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:58:39 -0500 Message-ID: <003301c34a5b$cb824f20$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <670A81F9-B4D0-11D7-8616-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:01:00 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Audrey, Or you could have friends like mine... I have fashion and costume books in three rooms, and two closets with fans, masks, and vintage evening gowns. Then in my office... has a path between the fashion publications, to get to my desk, and all walls are covered with postcards and posters of past fashions. Its enough to turn any of my person costuming crazy. There something for everyone. My friends all have different interests in costuming. Funny... friends of my kids that come over here, love my fan collection. They love to learn to pop my fans. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 19:29:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ENTpHP018153 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:29:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ENRsOd020189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:27:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ENRiFW006032; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:27:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11410.mail.yahoo.com (web11410.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.221]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6ENRdFW005961 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:27:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030714232739.50622.qmail@web11410.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.213] by web11410.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:27:39 PDT Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:27:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO hey, what about waxed seams? I'm dying to do THAT for an A&S (subtext=S&M) entry. Sue will probably die laughing when Caryn and Kortland see that. Jeff --- Heather Rose Jones wrote: > At 8:24 PM -0500 7/10/03, chiara wrote: > >Then I guess the question then I have is this: > > > >What is the seam finish and dates with them do we have? > > > >hand pressed: > >hand pressed and whipped stitched: > >frenched: > >flat felled: > >mock flat felled: > >pinked: > >hemmed: > >sergred: > >Others: > > > >Chiara > > I collated together information on seam types, including "finishes" > up through the medieval period in an article entitled "Archaeological > > Sewing". There's a copy of the text only at > -- I > put a copy with the figures in the files section of the authentic-SCA > > yahoo-groups list, but now that yahoo changed the location of > graphics files, the figure links won't work so it isn't much better > than the plain text version. One of these days when I have my own > web site I'll make the full version available again. > > Heather > -- > ***** > Heather Rose Jones > hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu > ***** > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 19:34:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ENYjHP018162 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:34:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ENWtOd021211 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:32:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ENWrFW010175; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:32:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11407.mail.yahoo.com (web11407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6ENWoFW010133 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:32:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030714233250.21276.qmail@web11407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.213] by web11407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:32:50 PDT Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:32:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean-oooh Johnny! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20030711075248.55147.qmail@web41509.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > --- "Saragrace T. Knauf" wrote: > I don't > follow > movies much, but since I saw Chocolate with Johnny Dep I > > swore I would see him in everything he makes. I saw the trailers > for POTC > > and, well...drooled a little. I think he is hot, hot, hot. I'd > jump his > > bones any day! Sorry Bjarne, Sorry Jeff! :} Don't sweat it. That already happened this weekend and you are hearing from one happy boy. I'll have to go see the film. Still trying to wrangle the illusive "decent job", so send me a spare thought. Jeff __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 19:38:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ENcgHP018172 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:38:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ENb3Od022068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:37:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ENb3FW012965; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:37:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11405.mail.yahoo.com (web11405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6ENb0FW012932 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030714233700.88345.qmail@web11405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.213] by web11405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:37:00 PDT Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:37:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bent rope To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO better yet, what"s the tailor doing with that goat? J. --- Kate M Bunting wrote: > In fact, the verse claims that it's a distinctively English style of > cap! > > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > >>> mooncat@in-tch.com 07/11/03 11:54am >>> > Interesting that they say she's French, when the label says > "L'Angloyse." (English?) > Or is it just the image that's French? > It certainly is an intriguely odd hat style, though....and I'm trying > to > figure out what that knotted piece of fabric is behind her (veil?) > Thanks for sharing! > --sue > > Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > > > Here's another image I recently ran across ........ > > http://www.threadneedlest.com/Bulletinboard.htm French 1567 > according to > > Dress and Undress, Ahistory of Women's Underware. Elizabeth Ewing > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email > Security System. For more information on a proactive email security > service working around the clock, around the globe, visit > http://www.messagelabs.com > ________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 19:54:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ENseHP018201 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:54:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ENr0Od024768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:53:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ENqxFW023715; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:52:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11403.mail.yahoo.com (web11403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.233]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6ENqtFW023685 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:52:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030714235255.80011.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.213] by web11403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:52:55 PDT Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:52:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <1df.d1addf4.2c4046b8@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ever hear of Pavlov's dogs? J. --- LoreleiMorte@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/11/2003 9:35:14 AM Central Standard Time, > drea@nospam writes: > > > No, sister, you're a member of the Ancient and Sacred Order of > > Bibliophiles. :) There is nothing as exhilarating as recieving a > rare > > costume book in the mail and then spending a good 15 minutes > leaping > > about the living room with it clutched to your chest, crowing > "Mine! > > It's all Mine!" > > > > It's freakin' Xmas when ya see that beautiful, glorious, big brown > truck > comin' down the street.....or the white one with the Holy Words "Fed > Ex".... or > you see your beloved mail guy, with the hint of manilla peeking forth > from his > bag, or with, better yet, the Sign-o-Thingy..... > > I love the brown truck, with it's glossy chocolate exterior...it > always comes > between 5 and 6..... > > Here, some people might not know this link: HREF="http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/lace.html"> > http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/lace.html > > It has some costume-y goodness as well as lace, and nifty embroidery, > too. > > > -Sarra Wryght > Elizabethan Dress Journals: > http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html > Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 20:24:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0OfHP018267 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:24:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0MJOd028728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:22:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0MHdQ011816; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:22:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0MEdQ011756 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:22:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessica.webwarren.com (h-64-105-120-98.NYCMNY83.covad.net [64.105.120.98]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by webwarren.com (8.12.8/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6F0M7u4000924 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:22:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030714201925.0b600450@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: arachne@pop.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:21:14 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Subject: Ripping corsets? (WAS: Fwd: [h-cost] Re: pirates of the caribbean) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >Modern medical advice warns against cutting off corsets in the case of >fainting, as this can cause serious complications. Pray tell, what -- and why? (This could be of very practical interest at Renfaires, and/or to those of our listmembers who run whatever-genre-of-first-aid at costumed/recreation events.) Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 20:41:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0fSHP018310 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:41:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0dmOd000351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:39:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0dkdQ021276; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:39:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web9405.mail.yahoo.com (web9405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6F0dhdQ021252 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:39:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030715003943.55835.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.239.202] by web9405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:39:43 PDT Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:39:43 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: RE: [h-cost] please help with places to visit in France this summer/fall To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In Paris--there is La Musee des Artes Decoratif, as well as La Musee ds Mode and Costumne, as I recall. They were busy re-vamping it last time I was there---so the exhibit was not displayed in it's Full Glorey. Still worth seeing. I adore Paris --lived there during my junior year of college. I have also been back since. Surewould love to go again:( Sniff!! Have a wonderful , wonderful time! Albra Colleen McDonald wrote: I will be in Nice, Arles, Avignon, Lyon, Paris, and parts of the Loire valley from the end of August thru the middle of September (a gift from my mother-in-law!). I would like to see as many costume-related and fabric-oriented sites as time permits. Can you recommend places to add to a "must-see" list?>> Lyon - The Musee de Tissue Historique is there and from what I've heard, is a must-see. Oooo, I'm so jealous - have a wonderful time! Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 20:48:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0mMHP018322 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:48:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0fTOd000485 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:41:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0fSdQ022178; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:41:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0fPdQ022153 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:41:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ADB5945009E; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:41:25 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ADB5A3021A; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:41:25 -0500 Message-ID: <00b401c34a6a$219e09e0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030714201925.0b600450@mail.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Ripping corsets? (WAS: Fwd: [h-cost] Re: pirates of the caribbean) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:43:38 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Why would you not rip a corset off it someone is fainting from lack of oxygen? When I wore a corset to the last two Balls those suckers came off in the car on the way home. The last Ball it was over 100 degrees and I was getting heat exhaustion. I couldn't get it off fast enough so I could breathe deep. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 20:49:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0nCHP018326 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:49:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0lLOd000872 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:47:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0lKdQ025231; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:47:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0lBdR025162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:47:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6F0lLbh024859 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:47:28 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6F0lHRq024857 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:47:17 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval straight pins (was: sharp object on airplanes: hatpins) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:47:17 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20030714.081624.896.9.Cley@juno.com> <3F12E53D.1010503@faucet.net> In-Reply-To: <3F12E53D.1010503@faucet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307142047.17133.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 14 July 2003 01:15 pm, Melanie Schuessler wrote: > > Obligatory costume content--does anyone know of anyone who makes medieval > > style straight pins? Does anyone have websites of persons who make > > costume accessories? > > I have a friend who makes brass straight pins in several sizes. He's a > fiend for research, so I imagine he could provide documentation as > well. Let me know if you'd like his contact information. Historic Enterprises makes medieval style straight pins. www.historicenterprises.com -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 20:55:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0tAHP018436 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:55:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0rGOd001392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:53:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0rFdQ028445; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:53:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0rBdQ028403 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:53:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p42-max20.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.118.161.106] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19cE44-0007EE-00; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:53:08 +1200 Message-ID: <004d01c34a6b$78509950$6aa176cb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8FE5D49F-B55E-11D7-B3EB-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> <3F126A31.25980.A5BE88C@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] bugle beads Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:53:12 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I don't think it's a bugle bead unless it is long and tubular. There > is a photograph of one in Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion 1560- > 1620. I think there is a color one of it in Historical Fashion in > Detail 17th and 18th C. At any rate, that one is green and looks long > and tubular. I love those sleeves:) The beads in HFiD are indeed tubular and there are some with a broken edge so we can see they also look about as thick as our modern bugles. Not silver lined of course, but not all modern buglesa re either;) And they call them tubular beads of course not bugles. "Tubular green glass beads, arranged in a starburst, surround the tufts, and are outlined with a spray of seed stitches in the floss silk." Should mention for those who don't have the book, or access to it the beads are sewn across the bead, as well as through, so there is a decoratiove stitch as well as an anchoring stitch. And there's the portrait of a girl by Petrus Christus and there are bugle beads in her necklace. Not sure if they are glass though to be honest. They are gold coloured, and it's possible they are gold lined clear glass, or silver lined yellow glass, but they really look solid gold. And of course they are tubular. Maybe the meaning of the word Bugle has changed? I know when I was playing Phoebe for a scene from As You Like It, there is mention of her "bugle bows" and she later says "he" called her eyebrows black. Not that they were tubular;) Nor trumpetish shaped.... (re Bugle Boy from Company B;) ) So there are long beads that look like our bugle beads but they may have been called something else, just as there were bugle beads that may have refered to another type of bead. I would just suggest people who are writing about one or the other clarify whether they are meaning the modern use of the word or contemporary ... michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 20:59:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0xCHP018458 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:59:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0vIOd001735 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:57:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0vIMD000800; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:57:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F0vFMD000729 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:57:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m155.in-tch.com [216.166.191.155]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6F0c1423229 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F1351D5.F862A590@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:59:01 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost]books, was: Seams - to finish or not to finish References: <146.152fd94c.2c402248@aol.com> <007201c3488d$d202e6e0$6adc4bab@Dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have decided that y'all are evil! just evil! Here I am, wasting away without email (dramatic hand to forehead), and what do I do, having read the few posts on this thread that I got, but go out and buy mumblety-mumble dollars' worth of natural dyes, a huge sliver of multi-colored, jewel-toned wool for spinning, and two! new! books! I've got a book on hand-spinning, and another called "Textiles: 5000 Years," which is absolutely full of lovely pictures and commentary on historical and ethnic fabrics of all sorts from around the world. My favorite, at the moment, is this patterned, 14th c. Spanish silk....mmmmm..... --sue, going back to slogging through emails.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 21:17:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1HRHP018698 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:17:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1FlOd003393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:15:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1FkMD010764; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:15:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav36.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1FhMD010677 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:15:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:15:37 -0700 Received: from 12.89.9.238 by bay1-dav36.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:15:37 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [12.89.9.238] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030714201925.0b600450@mail.earthlink.net> <00b401c34a6a$219e09e0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Ripping corsets? (WAS: Fwd: [h-cost] Re: pirates of thecaribbean) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:12:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jul 2003 01:15:37.0715 (UTC) FILETIME=[9968DC30:01C34A6E] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What *could* happen is that if the person has passed out and you cut the corset open the fast spread of cut off blood supply could (in theory) cause the blood to rush to fast causing shock or clotting. Bice http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 8:43 PM Subject: Re: Ripping corsets? (WAS: Fwd: [h-cost] Re: pirates of thecaribbean) > Why would you not rip a corset off it someone is fainting from lack of > oxygen? When I wore a corset to the last two Balls those suckers came off > in the car on the way home. The last Ball it was over 100 degrees and I was > getting heat exhaustion. I couldn't get it off fast enough so I could > breathe deep. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 21:24:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1O3HP018720 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:24:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1MQOd004018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:22:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1MOMD014082; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:22:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11403.mail.yahoo.com (web11403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.233]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6F1MMMD014055 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:22:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030715012221.91037.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.171] by web11403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:22:21 PDT Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:22:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bentrope To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <63424573-B3CD-11D7-830C-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Angloise is an old french version of , the feminine form of , if that helps. I'll see if I have it in me to transcribe the whole thing. Jeff --- Sarah wrote: > > On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 10:29 AM, J.A.Urbik wrote: > > > Can someone who knows the language translate the writing? I am > > curious, > > but since I last took french about 16 years ago i am LOST. Though > I > > did > > spend the morning trying to teach equations to summer school creole > > speakers if that has any impact on french :> > >>>> http://www.threadneedlest.com/Bulletinboard.htm French 1567 > >>>> according > > You know... I'm just going off my extraordinarily rusty French, but > I'm > assuming it's referring to an English woman. "Angloyse" (that funny > "f" thing is an "s" in case anyone is confused) is close enough to > "Anglais" to make that assumption, but I know someone will correct me > > if I'm wrong. ;) > > Sarah > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 21:36:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1aQHP018756 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:36:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1YmOd005109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:34:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1YjMD020079; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:34:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11409.mail.yahoo.com (web11409.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.220]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6F1YfMD020025 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:34:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030715013440.63952.qmail@web11409.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.171] by web11409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:34:40 PDT Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:34:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bentrope To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20030711151231.G45131-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, it's no uncommon thing for publishers and engraver to have recycled already made materials just as embroiderers copied from books and such (see Arnold: QEWU'd, in the chapter on embellishment). Civitates Orbis Terrarum was a widely copied and plagerised book. Jeff --- Drea Leed wrote: > Wow, and the entire group off of the London map--including the same > woman-- is re-depicted in the Civitates Orbis Terrarum of 1572! > > http://costume.dm.net/mappeople/mappeoplefullsize/london.jpeg > > Drea > > > On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Drea Leed wrote: > > > > > You know, this woman is almost identical to a woman depicted on a > map of > > Tudor London, at > http://lewis.up.edu/efl/asarnow/TudorMapofLondon.html. > > > > Interesting... > > > > Drea > > > > > > On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Sarah wrote: > > > > > > > > On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 10:29 AM, J.A.Urbik wrote: > > > > > > > Can someone who knows the language translate the writing? I am > > > > curious, > > > > but since I last took french about 16 years ago i am LOST. > Though I > > > > did > > > > spend the morning trying to teach equations to summer school > creole > > > > speakers if that has any impact on french :> > > > >>>> http://www.threadneedlest.com/Bulletinboard.htm French 1567 > > > >>>> according > > > > > > You know... I'm just going off my extraordinarily rusty French, > but I'm > > > assuming it's referring to an English woman. "Angloyse" (that > funny > > > "f" thing is an "s" in case anyone is confused) is close enough > to > > > "Anglais" to make that assumption, but I know someone will > correct me > > > if I'm wrong. ;) > > > > > > Sarah > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 21:40:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1enHP018765 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:40:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1ctOd005495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:38:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1cqMD022047; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:38:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6F1cmMD022005 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:38:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-121-115-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.121.115.127 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2003 01:38:47 -0000 Message-ID: <00fb01c34a71$d5fcf2f0$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <008801c34a40$63d54730$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Subject: Re: [h-cost] please help with places to visit in Francethissummer/fall Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:38:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In Paris, you must go to the Musee de la Mode et du Textile, which is at the Louvre but has a separate entrance -- NOT in the center pyramid, but outside that courtyard. The entrance is on the Rue de Rivoli. http://www.ucad.fr/infos_pratiques.htm#107 Obviously the Louvre as well. If you're into the 19th century, the Musee d'Orsay (http://www.musee-orsay.fr/) is a fabulous art (sorry, no costumes) museum -- you can see all the Impressionists etc. - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 21:45:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1jlHP018783 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:45:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1iBOd005931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:44:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1iAMD024530; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:44:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11408.mail.yahoo.com (web11408.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.238]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6F1i7MD024496 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:44:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030715014407.55345.qmail@web11408.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.171] by web11408.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:44:07 PDT Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:44:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bentrope To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey, does anyone have some fun engravings of "savages of the new world" they'd like to share? For the Symposium in Denver I'm seriously considering doing the "a king of Florida" outfit from Vecellio (plate 490) but more ideas are always better. Jeff --- Heather Rose Jones wrote: > the illustration of "Le sauvage en pompe" (the savage on display -- > no particular location is specified): > > When the savage is boasting or displaying, > He is suitably dressed like this. > If you are afraid that this portrait deceives you, > Go to these places to see his clothes. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 21:59:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1xPHP018945 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:59:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1vnOd006881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:57:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1vlKw001200; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:57:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11403.mail.yahoo.com (web11403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.233]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6F1vkKw001187 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:57:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030715015746.95045.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.171] by web11403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:57:46 PDT Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:57:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bamberg Lining? Anyone used this before? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000001c34807$a9e601a0$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bembourg...mmmm. J. --- "Saragrace T. Knauf" wrote: > Hi all, my cousin has asked me to make her a riding coat for her show > season > this year. She gave me one of her old ones to make a pattern out of. > I was > surprised to find that the lining was a synthetic satin. (The > fashion > fabric is silk dupioni) I was wondering if they did this because the > lining > is exposed to perspiration. Anyway, I can't find duchess satin in > the right > color and I don't trust my dyeing skills to make sure it is colour > fast, > especially under "High sweat" conditions (My cousins swears she > sweats more > than her mounts). > > > > So after that long explanation, I have heard great things about > Bamberg > linings. Have any of you used this lining and what are your opinions > about > using it under extreme conditions? > > > Thanks in advance, > > Sg > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 22:00:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F20ZHP018960 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:00:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1wpOd006974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:58:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1woKw001682; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:58:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F1wmKw001653 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:58:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-002-191.jps.net ([216.119.2.191] helo=pavilion) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19cF5a-0002rL-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:58:47 -0700 Message-ID: <001001c34a76$e9dbd340$bf0277d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:15:06 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] 16th or early 17th century umbrellas/coloured shirts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h6F20ZHP018960 Status: RO Hi folks, I've been busy lately trying to compile a glossary of 16th century clothing and have been pouring through Elizabethan Pageantry by H. K. Morse-1934 and found a couple things I hadn't seen before. One is a reference to an umberlla in Coryat's Crudities from 1611 although I think he is describing Elizabeth's time, I have to check further. The quote is - "...may of them doe carry other fine things (than fans) of a far greater price, that will cost, at the least, a duckat, which they commonly call in the Italian toungue umbrellaes, that is, things the minister shadow unto them for shelter against the scorching heate of the sunne. These are made of leather, something answerable to the forme of a little cannopy, and hooped in the inside with divers little wooden hoopes that extend the umbrella in a pretty large compasse. They are used especially by horsemen, who carry them in their hands when they ride, fastning the end of the handle upon one of their thighes, and they impart so large a shadow unto them, that it keepeth the heate of the sunne from the upper parts of their bodies." Also, a mention of coloured shirts. "Item-ix shertes whereof iiii whyte sherts, ii blacke, a blewe one edged with gold and one with silver-40 shilling." from a Folger Manuscript. (Inventorye of the goods...of George Cope, 1572) I also thought Cotgrave's Dictionary from 1632 had a funny entry for Chopines - "A kind of high slippers for low women" The umbrella reference is handy, the date of the introduction of the umbrella (umbrello, umbrellaes) often comes up at ren faires here in California. I always thought they were an anacronism, but maybe not. Another reference from 1618 is "An umbrello of perfumed leather with a gould fryndge abowte yt which I broughte out of Italie." (Will of R. Toft, 1618, Fairholt) Has anyone come across any period images of umbrellos? Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 22:14:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F2EaHP018990 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:14:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F2CwOd008261 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:12:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F2CvKw008517; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:12:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F2CsKw008487 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:12:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from karen (CPE-65-26-82-7.kc.rr.com [65.26.82.7]) h6F2CqKd016524 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:12:52 -0500 (CDT) From: "Talia" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 16th or early 17th century umbrellas/coloured shirts Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:12:33 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <001001c34a76$e9dbd340$bf0277d8@pavilion> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Even the ancient Egyptians had umbrellas. Talia > The umbrella reference is handy, the date of the introduction of > the umbrella (umbrello, umbrellaes) often comes up at ren faires > here in California. I always thought they were an anacronism, > but maybe not. Another reference from 1618 is "An umbrello of > perfumed leather with a gould fryndge abowte yt which I broughte > out of Italie." (Will of R. Toft, 1618, Fairholt) > > Has anyone come across any period images of umbrellos? > > Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 22:14:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F2EkHP018994 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:14:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F2DBOd008293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:13:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F2DAKw008618; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:13:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11404.mail.yahoo.com (web11404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.234]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6F2CtKw008499 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:12:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030715021255.41774.qmail@web11404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.171] by web11404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:12:55 PDT Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:12:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <002d01c348d0$3a9a6420$f82fc2cb@ewalpole> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Purple was very restricted in tudor england. You can see this in the sumptuaries by Elizabeth on Drea's site: http://costume.dm.net/sumptuary.html Somewhere online there is an actual transcription of both sets of sumptuaries that Elizabeth set forth and (I think maybe) the last of those that her father wrote. If memory serves correct right now (and because I'm feeling a little indolent) only earls and upward could wear purple suits and only knights of the king/queen could wear it in mantles (I read this as "knights of the garter", not that I've got THAT on the brain). In the actual transcription, Elizabeth is adament that the laws aren't only to distinguish the classes but to protect England economically, as seen in the thing about wearing foreign wool. Anyhow, I've been drinking and blabbing history. Jeff --- Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > In her portrait Jane Seymour wears a reddish purple velvet. > That's all I can think of off the top of my head. > Elizabeth Walpole > -----Original Message----- > From: Sarah > To: h-costume@indra.com > Date: Saturday, July 12, 2003 9:18 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric > > > >I bought this gorgeous silk brocade on ebay thinking it looked like > >this: http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/i-1.JPG > > > >Instead, I got this: > >http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/silkbrocade.jpg > > > >(Not that anything in the auction mentioned the photo was waaaaay > off > >on the color, but that's beside the point) > > > >I'm not a purple person, but I decided to keep it because it sure is > > >pretty, no matter how you look at it. The only trouble is that I > want > >to use it in a Tudor or Elizabethan gown, but I can't seem to think > of > >any purple being used during that time period. Does anyone know of > any > >purple being used in clothing during the 16th century? Sources? > >Images? Ideas? > > > >The fact that it's purple will probably not keep me from using it in > a > >costume, but I'm just stumped that I can't actually consciously > >remember seeing purple being used in clothing in any of the > thousands > >of portraits I've looked at over the years. > > > >Sarah > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 22:26:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F2QYHP019128 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:26:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F2OcOd009067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:24:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F2ObKw014126; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:24:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11403.mail.yahoo.com (web11403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.233]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6F2OZKw014097 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:24:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030715022435.98214.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.171] by web11403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:24:35 PDT Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:24:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F0FDCC9.14400.6365CD@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone know the whole name and/or kingdom of Mst. Thorkatla? There is and early period mst. by the same name here in Artemisia that may be the same woman. Jeff --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > This is very much not primary sourse, but Mistresss Thorkatla (mka > > Katheryn Nikolich) in a booklet on "The Greenland Gowns" says on > p.14 > > "Gowns were sewn with some form of french seam(1) to prolong > wear, > > or > > less frequently, some were lined" > > "(1) see back cover for sample of french seam on the front and > > sideseams" > > > > Unforunetly, even though the book is very informative (and I would > > welcome anyone's constuctive comments on it) that illustration is, > due > > to copying, quite unclear. > > Unfortunately, the illustrations are the important part. Otherwise we > > don't know for sure whether "french seam" according to this person is > > what "french seam" means to someone else. Also, the original pieces > which would actually show the stitching are important to know for > sure that the interpretation of it is accurate. > > I've seen any number of redrawings which did not accurately represent > > the original garments at all. (Like seams going at an 85 degree angle > > to where they should go according to the original garment and > according to experimentation with both forms.) I've also seen things > like "flat felled" seams labeled as "french seams" (which are totally > > different and certainly not interchangeable.) > > Where is this pamphlet available? > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 22:35:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F2ZsHP019143 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:35:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F2XqOd009726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:33:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F2XoKw018728; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:33:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11401.mail.yahoo.com (web11401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6F2XmKw018701 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:33:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030715023348.45220.qmail@web11401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.171] by web11401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:33:48 PDT Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:33:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: [h-cost] sharp object on airplanes To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F1084A6.4060400@sbcglobal.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've got a rather large piercing that one may not see with my clothes on that I've gotten right through customs. My friend who works in airline security tells me that most places have things set touchy enough that I shouldn't be able to get through w/o a little looky-loo, but I had no problem in Denver, Providence, or Newark. J. > "Laura Dickerson" wrote: > >> Shocking lapse on the part of airline personnel - last summer > I > walked > >> through the x-ray machine (having emptied my pockets) wearing a > large > >> straw hat that was pinned to my head. With hat pins. 4 inches > long, > >> with a decorative item on one end but really sharp at the other > end. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 22:47:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F2ldHP019171 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:47:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F2k2Od011076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:46:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F2k0Kw025329; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6F2jwKw025297 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:45:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 71559 invoked by uid 1005); 15 Jul 2003 02:45:43 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.083077 secs); 15 Jul 2003 02:45:43 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.083077 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 15 Jul 2003 02:45:43 -0000 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:45:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Doublets-n-kirtles-n-skirts, oh my! In-Reply-To: <174.1ddc2523.2c448c44@aol.com> Message-ID: <20030714224511.U15981-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yup. Though the fashion seems to have been a bit more prevalent in Germany of the later 16th c., and really hit England in the 80s. Drea On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 LoreleiMorte@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/14/2003 4:41:31 PM Central Standard Time, > drea@nospam writes: > > > There's two types of garments that can look like a doublet &skirt: the a > > high-bodied gown, with a bodice that fastens up to the neck, attached > > skirt, and tabs at the waist...or a separate doublet bodice, worn over > > another gown/kirtle. > > > > The former, obviously, would have bodice and skirt attached. A separate > > doublet w/ petticoat (sans bodies) shows up in 1590s records, and doublets > > for women show up in the mid 70s...but I've found no hard data indicating > > whether they were worn over petticoats/kirtles with or sans bodies. > > Probably both. > > > > Cool. So, it's pretty much a case of "whatever blows my hair back", eh? Make > a high bodied gown or a doublet over a kirtle. > > -Sarra Wryght > Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html > Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 22:53:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F2rHHP019183 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:53:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F2nrOd011408 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:49:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F2nrKw027459; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:49:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F2noKw027436 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:49:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail20.ureach.com (mail20.ureach.com [172.16.2.80]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA22918 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:49:50 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-200-213.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.213]) by mail20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA22914 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:49:50 -0400 Message-ID: <000801c34a7b$392ba3e0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030715021255.41774.qmail@web11404.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:45:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Only purple silk. There is no mention of purple with regard to any other type of cloth. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Brainard" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 10:12 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric > Purple was very restricted in tudor england. You can see this in the > sumptuaries by Elizabeth on Drea's site: > > http://costume.dm.net/sumptuary.html > > Somewhere online there is an actual transcription of both sets of > sumptuaries that Elizabeth set forth and (I think maybe) the last of > those that her father wrote. If memory serves correct right now (and > because I'm feeling a little indolent) only earls and upward could wear > purple suits and only knights of the king/queen could wear it in > mantles (I read this as "knights of the garter", not that I've got THAT > on the brain). In the actual transcription, Elizabeth is adament that > the laws aren't only to distinguish the classes but to protect England > economically, as seen in the thing about wearing foreign wool. Anyhow, > I've been drinking and blabbing history. > > Jeff > > --- Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > > In her portrait Jane Seymour wears a reddish purple velvet. > > That's all I can think of off the top of my head. > > Elizabeth Walpole > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sarah > > To: h-costume@indra.com > > Date: Saturday, July 12, 2003 9:18 AM > > Subject: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric > > > > > > >I bought this gorgeous silk brocade on ebay thinking it looked like > > >this: http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/i-1.JPG > > > > > >Instead, I got this: > > >http://www.elizabethanlady.com/images/silkbrocade.jpg > > > > > >(Not that anything in the auction mentioned the photo was waaaaay > > off > > >on the color, but that's beside the point) > > > > > >I'm not a purple person, but I decided to keep it because it sure is > > > > >pretty, no matter how you look at it. The only trouble is that I > > want > > >to use it in a Tudor or Elizabethan gown, but I can't seem to think > > of > > >any purple being used during that time period. Does anyone know of > > any > > >purple being used in clothing during the 16th century? Sources? > > >Images? Ideas? > > > > > >The fact that it's purple will probably not keep me from using it in > > a > > >costume, but I'm just stumped that I can't actually consciously > > >remember seeing purple being used in clothing in any of the > > thousands > > >of portraits I've looked at over the years. > > > > > >Sarah > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >h-costume mailing list > > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 23:08:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F38iHP019206 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:08:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F35hOd012619 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:05:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F35ggf005749; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:05:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F35dgg005727 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:05:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6F363bh025087 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:06:03 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6F362do025085 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:06:02 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:06:02 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3F0E8486.16980.1E395A73@localhost> <200307140109.41708.cathy@thyrsus.com> <077e01c349c9$526c76c0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> In-Reply-To: <077e01c349c9$526c76c0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307142306.02632.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 14 July 2003 01:32 am, Glenda Robinson wrote: > Thanks for the tip Cathy! > > They also have NESAT 5, and they're both around 30 pounds. Sounds about right. I just bought NESAT 5 from them, in fact. If only I read German! They had NESAT 3 a few years ago, and I blew my chance to buy it then (because of lack of money). Hope they still have 4 when I can afford another one. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 23:39:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F3dpHP019246 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:39:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F3aFOd015676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:36:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F3aDgf022125; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:36:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F3aAgf022093 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:36:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip117.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.117]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C0346A9C0 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:13:45 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:36:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Message-ID: <3F131432.10071.CF3FDFB@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20030714232739.50622.qmail@web11410.mail.yahoo.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > hey, what about waxed seams? I'm dying to do THAT for an A&S > (subtext=S&M) entry. Sue will probably die laughing when Caryn and > Kortland see that. Lordy, I forgot about that one (which seems to be especially good on silk.) Janet Arnold mentioned (when we were talking at a lecture she gave) about using gum arabic as well. (I wish that they would say what the results of testing was and what the tests were when they mention things like this!) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 23:40:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F3eDHP019250 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:40:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F3adOd015743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:36:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F3acgf022345; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:36:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F3aGgf022162 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:36:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip117.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.117]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F40D16A9C0 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:13:51 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:36:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Ripping corsets? (WAS: Fwd: [h-cost] Re: pirates of the caribbean) Message-ID: <3F131431.6926.CF3FA23@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00b401c34a6a$219e09e0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Why would you not rip a corset off it someone is fainting from lack of > oxygen? When I wore a corset to the last two Balls those suckers came > off in the car on the way home. The last Ball it was over 100 degrees > and I was getting heat exhaustion. I couldn't get it off fast enough > so I could breathe deep. Short answer: rapid removal of corset can cause the heart to stop. Long answer: if the chest is compressed it gets "used" to having that amount of blood in the chest and major vessels. If that pressure is suddenly released, it results in a sudden decompression which leads to rapid exit of the blood from the L ventricle without adequate inflow. This results in asystole (heart stopping.) The *only* time that you should suddenly release a corset is when the heart has *already* stopped. Then any change can help get the heart going again, as well as allowing you to do CPR. But it can stop it if it is done too rapidly (such as a corset whose laces are suddenly cut or the bodice itself is ripped off.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 23:40:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F3eDHP019251 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:40:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F3aUOd015715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:36:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F3aUgf022283; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:36:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F3aDgf022121 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:36:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip117.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.117]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B65BD6A9C0 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:13:48 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:36:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Doublets-n-kirtles-n-skirts, oh my! Message-ID: <3F131432.21478.CF3FB1D@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <7c.3b384fea.2c446b0d@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Just pondering.... > > I'm a form believer in the Whole Gown vs the skirt'n'bodice theory in > 'bethan garment construction. I always sew my bodices to my > skirts...makes it way easier and hangs better in my personal > experience. Now, doublets..... my pondering is (for doublets that > match the skirt)....doublet over matching kirtle (note I said kirtle, > not skirt)OR skirt and doublet sewn as one? PoF seems to say > sewn-as-one. While I'm sure that they did have sewn-as-one garments, they also, as evidenced by the inventories and wills of the period (such as in Janet Arnold's QEWU) have separate bodices and skirts. From what I've seen in that sort of evidence, they started doing them separately somewhere around the middle of the 16th C for women's garments. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 14 23:40:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F3eDHP019252 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:40:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F3amOd015760 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:36:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F3algf022434; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:36:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F3aHgf022184 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:36:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip117.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.117]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91EC46A4BF for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:13:53 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:36:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting chiffon and other woodgy fabric (was fitting aGFD/cotte) Message-ID: <3F131432.9856.CF3FC17@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > What about starch? Or something that would have a similar result? > I think I remember seeing it or hearing about it somewhere, to help > stiffen slippery fabrics and make them more manageable... Nope. Not dreaming. However, last year I did a dress with a pintucked front in a lightweight taffeta (yeah, silly me, I know) and had to do a *lot* of experimentation to see what would work to let me do that. I tried various brands of starch but found that the only washable thing which really worked was the Palmer Plesch brand of stiffener. (Aleen's was a poor second best.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 00:22:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F4MFHP019323 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:22:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F4J6Od019171 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:19:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F4J4hY013262; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:19:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F4J2hY013237 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19cHHJ-00013e-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:19:01 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:19:16 -0700 Message-ID: <000201c34a88$41b42ac0$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] QE-how tall again-Madame Tussaud's? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My email has been on again off again all week. If someone had already thought of this, sorry. Anyone ask the Madame Tussaud's Museum how they figured out how tall she was? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 00:33:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F4XtHP019349 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:33:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F4UpOd020152 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:30:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F4UohY019055; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:30:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F4UmhY019035 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:30:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-28-188.o1.jps.net ([216.119.28.188] helo=pavilion) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19cHSh-000528-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:30:47 -0700 Message-ID: <000801c34a8c$24d19e20$bc1c77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F131432.9856.CF3FC17@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting chiffon and other woodgy fabric (was fittingaGFD/cotte) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:47:04 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I tried the starch thing once, and if I recall correctly, and I can't remember the fabric I used, it was great to cut, great to sew but the starch never really completly, washed out of the french seams I used so it was a bit of a failure. Some light starch might be okay, depending on the fabric. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting chiffon and other woodgy fabric (was fittingaGFD/cotte) > > > What about starch? Or something that would have a similar result? > > I think I remember seeing it or hearing about it somewhere, to help > > stiffen slippery fabrics and make them more manageable... > > Nope. Not dreaming. However, last year I did a dress with a pintucked > front in a lightweight taffeta (yeah, silly me, I know) and had to do > a *lot* of experimentation to see what would work to let me do that. > I tried various brands of starch but found that the only washable > thing which really worked was the Palmer Plesch brand of stiffener. > (Aleen's was a poor second best.) > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 02:51:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F6pXHP029455 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:51:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F6nWOd029386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:49:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F6nStO022468; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:49:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F6nQtO022455 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:49:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net ([67.124.118.50]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HI2001MC0ABRK@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:49:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:46:59 -0700 From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean In-reply-to: X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030714234539.00bbcc18@pop.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 References: <670A81F9-B4D0-11D7-8616-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 06:33 PM 7/14/2003 -0400, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Heather Meadows" > > > You have a non-costumer friend? > > > > what are you thinking? ;) > >I don't know what she's thinking, but I've found that my own non costumer >friends help me stay sane. > >If I had only costumer friends, my house would be filled to the roof with >fabric and patterns and books and sketches and notions and old hats and old >dresses and old shoes and weird shirts and bizarre pants and... well... you >get the idea :-) And you say this like it's a bad thing? ;-) Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 04:15:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F8FNHP026838 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 04:15:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F8DiOd004604 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:13:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F8DgN4000935; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:13:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F8DcN4000900 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:13:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h6F8DZp05440.; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:13:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:13:35 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:13:21 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pirates Costume Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com 07/14/03 08:22am >>> --- jessica stier wrote: > >> she was walking onto the deserted island...). The interesting thing was >> this slit on each arm that started about three inches below the shoulder. >> This ran somewhere to mid forearm length. It was laced closed. >> >> Does anyone remember this detail? Is there historical accuracy to this? I >> can't really figure out the point of it. >Whioch year is it supposed to be, or even which century? However, in all >my 17th and early 18th. c. studies I have never ever ever ever come >across such a thing. Costume designer freedom of choice, my guess. >Nicole Perhaps a confused recollection of the open sleeve seams of the mid-17th century? - but that was always the *outer* sleeve, leting the shirt/shift show through. (I think Jessica said this was the shift sleeve which was slit?) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 04:20:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F8KiHP029390 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 04:20:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F8IjOd004907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:18:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F8IiN4003022; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:18:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F8IgN4003006 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:18:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.124.39.88]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HI2001KY4F2RL@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:18:29 -0700 From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: Ripping corsets? (WAS: Fwd: [h-cost] Re: pirates of the caribbean) In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20030714201925.0b600450@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030715001330.05417b20@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>Modern medical advice warns against cutting off corsets in the case of >>fainting, as this can cause serious complications. > >Pray tell, what -- and why? (This could be of very practical interest at >Renfaires, and/or to those of our listmembers who run >whatever-genre-of-first-aid at costumed/recreation events.) The blood suddenly rushes into the previously constricted area, causing blood pressure to drop in other places, like the brain. In extreme cases, this could lead to a coma. Not good. Removing the corset quickly may be a good idea, just don't do it too quickly. Unlace it, or take several seconds to undo the busk, rather than just cutting it off. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 04:24:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F8OVHP031313 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 04:24:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F8MqOd005148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:22:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F8MpN4004624; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:22:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F8MmN4004603 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:22:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-39-88.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.39.88]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6F8Mlru006686 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:22:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030715012038.054c0850@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:22:42 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pirates Costume Question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >Whioch year is it supposed to be, or even which century? However, in >all >my 17th and early 18th. c. studies I have never ever ever ever come > >across such a thing. Costume designer freedom of choice, my guess. > > >Nicole > >Perhaps a confused recollection of the open sleeve seams of the >mid-17th century? - but that was always the *outer* sleeve, leting the >shirt/shift show through. (I think Jessica said this was the shift >sleeve which was slit?) The shift in question has straight sleeves which lace, where an outer seam would be, all the way down to several inches below the elbow. They would show under dresses worn in the mid to later 1700s. Therefore I think it's a costume designer thing, not a historical one. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 04:31:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F8VYHP003458 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 04:31:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F8ToOd005576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:29:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F8TnN4007570; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:29:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F8TkN4007533 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:29:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h6F8Tjp06998.; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:29:46 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:29:45 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:29:20 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th or early 17th century umbrellas/coloured shirts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are some (rain) umbrellas among the crowd approaching the theatre at the beginning of the Depardieu "Cyrano de Bergerac". I thought this was an error until I remembered that they had been used in Europe before they reached Britain. Umbrellas for rain were not introduced here until the 18th century. I think sunshades may have been known before that, but were definitely uncommon. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 05:33:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F9WsHP024699 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 05:33:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F9V1Od011567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F9Uxh1005884; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:30:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F9Uuh1005850 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:30:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2514A36942 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 05:30:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19cM99-0007fM-00 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 05:30:55 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Doublets-n-kirtles-n-skirts, oh my! In-Reply-To: <3F131432.21478.CF3FB1D@localhost> References: <7c.3b384fea.2c446b0d@aol.com> <3F131432.21478.CF3FB1D@localhost> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 05:30:55 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kat wrote: > While I'm sure that they did have sewn-as-one garments, they also, as > evidenced by the inventories and wills of the period (such as in > Janet Arnold's QEWU) have separate bodices and skirts. From what I've > seen in that sort of evidence, they started doing them separately > somewhere around the middle of the 16th C for women's garments. For what it's worth, if it were me, I would look at how the waistline looks. If there is a distinct stylistic "break" at the waistline - like, totally different fabrics, or something - then I'd go with separate garments, a doublet and either a kirtle-with-bodice or perhaps a skirt. If the outfit is more "whole", though, and looks like the parts wouldn't be worn separately, and *especially* if the waist treatment doesn't have tabs or similar, then I'd consider attaching the two parts at least semi-permanently. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 06:44:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FAiJHP024904 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 06:44:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FAgZOd015607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 04:42:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FAgUhF005857; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 04:42:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp.austarmetro.com.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FAgPhF005805 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 04:42:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ewalpole (dialup-172.40.220.203.acc05-nort-cbr.comindico.com.au [203.220.40.172])h6FAgMpe014845 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:42:22 +1000 Message-ID: <000401c34abd$1eda4040$ac28dccb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:30:37 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Date: Thursday, July 10, 2003 1:57 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? >Also, I know we've discussed the "people were smaller back then" issue here in the past, but briefly, apparently the story isn't that simple; from skeletal studies, it seems that average people were very much our size in some periods and smaller in others; it's not a steady upward trend. Unfortunately the Victorian era, which is the "back then" that there's the most evidence for, seems to have been one where people tended to be particularly small (except the best-nourished classes, of course), which is probably why the myth got started. I believe the Elizabethan average was only an inch or so lower than ours. > >____________________________________________________________ >0 Chris Laning I recall hearing recently that Scientists searching for explanations for why the average height is continually getting taller, have come up with a new theory, the old theory focussed mainly on nutrition in childhood, however since about W.W.II most of the population has been getting good nutrition but people are still getting taller. The new theory focuses on childhood diseases, until recently in history there were a set of standard diseases that children went through, measles, mumps, etc. they were thought of as normal & most children experienced all of them. However with mass immunizations children are no longer catching these diseases, this relates to height in that while your body is busy fighting off infection it stops putting valuable resources into non essential things like growing taller. Based on that theory that even in the well nourished upper classes the average height would be less than it is now, because despite their money they still caught those diseases. Elizabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 07:35:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FBZaHP025043 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:35:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FBXgOd019223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 05:33:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FBXeAj027470; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 05:33:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net (relay01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FBXbAj027439 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 05:33:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 23726 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2003 11:33:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO computername) ([170.215.195.142]) (envelope-sender ) by relay01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net (FrontierMTA 2.3.6) with SMTP for ; 15 Jul 2003 11:33:36 -0000 Message-ID: <000701c34ac4$eed77950$03fea8c0@computername> From: "Home Ec" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030715022435.98214.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:33:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO She is in the East, but not active. I can call her, but it would help if I had the exact questions you want answered. Could they be restated? That way I know I won't have to try playing telephone tag with her. Rowena Aethelmearc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Brainard" Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 10:24 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish > Does anyone know the whole name and/or kingdom of Mst. Thorkatla? There > is and early period mst. by the same name here in Artemisia that may be > the same woman. > > Jeff > > > --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > > > This is very much not primary sourse, but Mistresss Thorkatla (mka > > > Katheryn Nikolich) in a booklet on "The Greenland Gowns" says on > > p.14 > > > "Gowns were sewn with some form of french seam(1) to prolong > > wear, > > > or > > > less frequently, some were lined" > > > "(1) see back cover for sample of french seam on the front and > > > sideseams" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 08:03:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FC38HP025143 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:03:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FC1DOd021012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 06:01:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FC1CS6008844; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 06:01:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FC19S6008825 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 06:01:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asv1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (asv1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.150]) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:58:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optonline.net (ool-18bde58e.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.229.142]) h6FBw5g5029784 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:58:24 -0400 From: "J.A.Urbik" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish To: Historical Costume Message-id: <3F13EC60.8D8322DB@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <20030715022435.98214.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think I posted in an erlier post her full name is Katheryn Nikolick, or Thorkatla Herjolfsdottir. Also, in carefully looking at the booklet, I discovered that the picture that I was refering to was from _Buried Norsemen at Heerjolfsnes_ pp109, Male gown #42. I don't have the book, but those of you who do have it, can you look at the picture and see what it looks like? jordana Jeff Brainard wrote: > > Does anyone know the whole name and/or kingdom of Mst. Thorkatla? There > is and early period mst. by the same name here in Artemisia that may be > the same woman. > > Jeff > > --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > > > This is very much not primary sourse, but Mistresss Thorkatla (mka > > > Katheryn Nikolich) in a booklet on "The Greenland Gowns" says on > > p.14 > > > "Gowns were sewn with some form of french seam(1) to prolong > > wear, > > > or > > > less frequently, some were lined" > > > "(1) see back cover for sample of french seam on the front and > > > sideseams" > > > > > > Unforunetly, even though the book is very informative (and I would > > > welcome anyone's constuctive comments on it) that illustration is, > > due > > > to copying, quite unclear. >..snips of comments about it would be nice to see the picture right. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 08:58:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FCw1HP025292 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:58:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FCt0Od025303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 06:55:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FCsxS6003591; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 06:54:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FCsuS6003512 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 06:54:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m226.in-tch.com [216.166.191.226]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6FCZf428800 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 06:35:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F13FA0A.B921476B@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 06:56:42 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pirates Costume Question References: <4.3.1.2.20030715012038.054c0850@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The shift in question also more closely resembles a proto-GFD than any of the extant shifts from that time period that I've seen. IIRC, it even laced down the front. Of course, the actress looked good in it, and, looking more like a light-colored, long dress might make it more appropriate for her sole garment on the deserted island, at least to some modern eyes. --sue Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > >Whioch year is it supposed to be, or even which century? However, in > >all >my 17th and early 18th. c. studies I have never ever ever ever come > > >across such a thing. Costume designer freedom of choice, my guess. > > > > >Nicole > > > >Perhaps a confused recollection of the open sleeve seams of the > >mid-17th century? - but that was always the *outer* sleeve, leting the > >shirt/shift show through. (I think Jessica said this was the shift > >sleeve which was slit?) > > The shift in question has straight sleeves which lace, where an outer seam > would be, all the way down to several inches below the elbow. They would > show under dresses worn in the mid to later 1700s. Therefore I think it's > a costume designer thing, not a historical one. > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 09:17:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FDHTHP025362 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:17:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FDEXOd026623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:14:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FDEWXr012233; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:14:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FDERXr012181 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:14:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-16-101.o1.jps.net ([216.119.16.101] helo=pavilion) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19cPdT-0005kS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 06:14:27 -0700 Message-ID: <001201c34ad5$4f4ad6a0$651077d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th or early 17th century umbrellas/colouredshirts Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 06:30:49 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Kate M Bunting" wrote: > There are some (rain) umbrellas among the crowd approaching the theatre > at the beginning of the Depardieu "Cyrano de Bergerac". I thought this > was an error until I remembered that they had been used in Europe before > they reached Britain. Umbrellas for rain were not introduced here until > the 18th century. I think sunshades may have been known before that, but > were definitely uncommon. > Okay, that does make sense. I was aware of the 18th century date too. Would be kind of fun to take a sweet smelling leather umbrella with hoops and fringe though. As if I ever had the time! Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 09:27:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FDRPHP025377 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:27:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FDO3Od027321 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:24:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FDO2Xr016831; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6FDNwXr016805 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:23:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 97364 invoked by uid 1005); 15 Jul 2003 13:23:53 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.075984 secs); 15 Jul 2003 13:23:53 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.075984 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 15 Jul 2003 13:23:53 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:23:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th or early 17th century umbrellas/colouredshirts In-Reply-To: <001201c34ad5$4f4ad6a0$651077d8@pavilion> Message-ID: <20030715092149.T23555-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The earliest I've seen is 1570s, from the Milanese Tailor's Handbook. A man in armor is riding on a horse and carrying a big umbrella. I used to have a scan of it online, but can't find it right now... Drea On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > "Kate M Bunting" wrote: > > > There are some (rain) umbrellas among the crowd approaching the theatre > > at the beginning of the Depardieu "Cyrano de Bergerac". I thought this > > was an error until I remembered that they had been used in Europe before > > they reached Britain. Umbrellas for rain were not introduced here until > > the 18th century. I think sunshades may have been known before that, but > > were definitely uncommon. > > > > Okay, that does make sense. I was aware of the 18th century date too. > Would be kind of fun to take a sweet smelling leather umbrella with hoops > and fringe though. As if I ever had the time! > > Lisa > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 09:42:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FDg9HP025431 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:42:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FDd8Od028415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:39:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FDd7Xr024324; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:39:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta8-svc.business.ntl.com (mta8-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FDd3Xr024302 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:39:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Imedia5043 ([80.1.3.17]) by mta8-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20030715133901.GPEQ291.mta8-svc.business.ntl.com@Imedia5043> for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:39:01 +0100 Message-ID: <027301c34ad6$6df42740$39080150@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030715021255.41774.qmail@web11404.mail.yahoo.com> <000801c34a7b$392ba3e0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:38:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO brocade was silk so it therefore applies and there are also laws against the wearing of velvets so it applies to that as well Dawn Ages Of Elegance makers of Historical reproduction Clothing, Uniforms and Bridalwear http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 > Only purple silk. There is no mention of purple with regard to any other > type of cloth. > > > Purple was very restricted in tudor england. You can see this in the > > sumptuaries by Elizabeth on Drea's site: > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 09:42:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FDgLHP025435 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:42:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FDdROd028448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:39:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FDdQXr024484; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:39:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FDd9Xr024346 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:39:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail22.ureach.com (mail22.ureach.com [172.16.2.82]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA05670 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:39:09 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-200-213.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.213]) by mail22.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA19451 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:39:09 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c34ad5$ecca0d60$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030715021255.41774.qmail@web11404.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:35:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Medieval pins X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Someone was asking about vendors for medieval pins. Fettered Cock Pewters sells two styles. One is a quatrefoil and the other is an acorn. They are at the bottom of this page: http://www.fetteredcockpewters.com/page_various_sundry.htm Teena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 10:07:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FE7mHP025508 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:07:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FE4WOd000666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:04:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FE4ULu009096; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:04:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FE4OLu009033 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:04:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail22.ureach.com (mail22.ureach.com [172.16.2.82]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA13753 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:04:24 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-200-213.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.213]) by mail22.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA16518 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:04:24 -0400 Message-ID: <000d01c34ad9$73b58360$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030715021255.41774.qmail@web11404.mail.yahoo.com><000801c34a7b$392ba3e0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> <027301c34ad6$6df42740$39080150@Imedia5043> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:00:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Many types of fabrics are mentioned: satin, damask, velvet, taffeta, etc. These can be made of various fibers including, but not limited to, silk.. My point was that the only fiber associated directly with the color purple is silk. I often hear people state that the purple itself was restricted by the sumptuary laws and this is not the case. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric > brocade was silk so it therefore applies and there are also laws against the > wearing of velvets so it applies to that as well > Dawn > Ages Of Elegance makers of Historical reproduction Clothing, Uniforms and > Bridalwear > http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 > > > Only purple silk. There is no mention of purple with regard to any other > > type of cloth. > > > > > Purple was very restricted in tudor england. You can see this in the > > > sumptuaries by Elizabeth on Drea's site: > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 10:08:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FE8oHP025513 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:08:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FE5oOd000790 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:05:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FE5nLu009840; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:05:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FE5kLu009763 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:05:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.17f.1e0bd176 (15865) for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:05:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-m05.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.133]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v95.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID64-3df93f140a2b214; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:05:32 -0400 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:05:31 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] =?ISO-8859-1?B?oGN1dHRpbmcgY2hpZmZvbiBhbmQgb3RoZXIgd29vZGd5IGZhYnJpYyAod2FzIGZpdHRpbmdhR0ZEL2NvdHRlKQ==?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <59052C95.39DBB692.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You can use starch on silk, but if it's a synthetic fiber, I think you will need to use sizing made of polyvinyl acetate (PVA). "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" wrote: >One thing just occured to me... > >What about starch? Or something that would have a similar result? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 10:22:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FEMkHP025528 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:22:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FEJhOd002050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:19:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FEJgLu018220; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:19:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FEJdLu018197 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:19:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) JAA00144 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:19:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <000401c34adc$38fef780$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000401c34abd$1eda4040$ac28dccb@ewalpole> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:20:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heredity, then as now, had a lot to do with it too. Henry VIII was well over six feet tall as was his maternal grandfather Edward IV. His mother Elizabeth was also apparently tall for a woman. However, Henry's fraternal grandmother, Margaret Beaufort, was very short, and passed that trait down to her great-great nieces, the Grey sisters: Jane, Katherine, and Mary. Nutrition, or lack thereof, would probably more obviously manifest itself in skeletal density than height itself. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 10:24:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FEOVHP025533 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:24:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FELXOd002262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:21:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FELWLu019439; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:21:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FELSLu019314 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:21:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.18e.1d39fcf5 (15974) for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-m24.webmail.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (v94.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID101-3e663f140ddeb7; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:21:18 -0400 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:21:18 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2C315F31.597EF7C7.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I believe her father's sumptuary laws also controlled purple velvet. Regardless, the original poster's question was in regard to a brocade which looked like silk to me. Constance "Beteena Paradise" wrote: >Only purple silk. There is no mention of purple with regard to any other >type of cloth. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 10:34:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FEYoHP025593 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:34:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FEOXOd002650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:24:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FEOULu022081; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:24:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6FEOPLu021880 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:24:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWt9J6uIeaGGNwqzU/+SwOX5DrClcq7iUTQ==">; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:24:02 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H45ULP9P; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:24:02 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:08:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Message-ID: <20030715.101005.-76521.1.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,10-12 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO <<>> I find that a bit hard to believe. As a child, I had German measles, three day measles, mumps, chicken pox, whooping cough, and still grew to be 5'10" tall. My mother was 5'3" tall and came from a well to do family. My dad was 5'11" tall and came from a lower middle class family. I suspect it is more in the genes than in the diet or what disease we had as kids. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 10:44:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FEiiHP025629 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:44:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FEfgOd005113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:41:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FEffLu006219; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:41:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FEfbLu006151 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:41:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h6FEfZp11196.; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:41:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:41:35 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:41:14 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lalah wrote: Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> catpurson@juno.com 07/15/03 03:08pm >>> <<>> > I find that a bit hard to believe. As a child, I had German >measles, three day measles, mumps, chicken pox, whooping cough, and >still grew to be 5'10" tall. My mother was 5'3" tall and came from a well to >do family. My dad was 5'11" tall and came from a lower middle class >family. I suspect it is more in the genes than in the diet or what >disease we had as kids. I'm sure nobody was suggesting that *everyone* who caught childhood illnesses has ended up short in stature! Of course there have always been some people with a genetic predisposition to grow tall. There must be some environmental (or whatever) reason why *average* heights are increasing, though. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 10:54:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FEsQHP025647 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:54:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FEpEOd006219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:51:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FEpCLu013430; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:51:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FEp8Lu013380 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:51:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p4-max5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.207.132] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19cR90-0007BO-00; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:51:06 +1200 Message-ID: <007401c34ae0$89d40890$84cfadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030715.101005.-76521.1.catpurson@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:51:13 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I find that a bit hard to believe. As a child, I had German > measles, three day measles, mumps, chicken pox, whooping cough, and still > grew to be 5'10" tall. My mother was 5'3" tall and came from a well to > do family. My dad was 5'11" tall and came from a lower middle class > family. I suspect it is more in the genes than in the diet or what > disease we had as kids. Yes but our diet now (food additives etc aside) allow us to reach our full growth potential. If you took those same genes and had the poor diet of (especially) the Victorian era you probably would not acheive that full height. You were also able to fight those infections mostly through the wonders of modern medicine especially anitbiotics (though in the above they might have been helpful in only *one* instance, it's still a help in general) but also all those lovely pain releivers and the knowelege of how to deal with the diseases (with room to further understanding as always). We tend not to die of diseases we once did as well. Genes and environment go very much hand in hand. With genes being expressed etc due to factors beyond what is in the genetic code.Oh.. one of my new favourite quote: "we may indeed share 98% of our genes with chimpanzees, but then, we share 47% with cabbages." From Science of the Discworld II, a nice wee tome though I prefered the first book. As a side note, I had German measles even though I had been imunised. So I got it when I was 15... aparently there was an epidemic here as many kids my age had simply been imunised too early. Chicken pox I got as a very little child, but my poor brother got it in his late teens. We both have scars, but as I was a very very impressionable child I believed my mother when she said I'd grow chicken feathers if I scratched rather than the reality of getting nasty scars. (yes there is some debate about how scarred you can get, but we do also know the adage "it'll get worse if you pick it".) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 11:32:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FFWeHP025697 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:32:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FFTVOd011772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:29:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FFTQr8016872; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:29:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FFTHr8016600 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:29:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp03509979pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net[68.54.185.111](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003071515291201100jvqvde> (Authid: cozit); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:29:12 +0000 Message-ID: <3F141DD3.7020102@comcast.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:29:23 -0400 From: Cozit / Liz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200307151421.h6FELgLv019555@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: why not to release corsets quickly X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO BTW, for anyone who works at a ren-faire... if you don't *know* that the EMTs or whoever is providing First Aid at your event has worked at faire before and *knows* about corsets and what happens if they're released too quickly, it's not a bad idea to let them know. I know that the wonderful EMTs from Anne Arundel Co. who work at MDRF get a reminder from someone or other at least once a year (and they usually pass it on to the others who man the booth as well)... and I heard one of them last year comment that they hadn't realized the consequences, though once they thought for a moment or two it made perfect sense. There is an exception, BTW. If someone is in an extreme heat emergency and/or is having extreme difficulty in breathing and the corset/bodice cannot be released easily... then the other situation needs to take priority over the risk of the quick release... or so I've been told... I'd double check before you pass *that* part on. As far as just how *much*of an effect a quick release can have? I, personally, do not tie tight.... I like to be able to use a bit more lung capacity than it would allow... so I tie snug enough to support what little needs supporting, but no more than a comfy hug (and less than some hugs I've been given). I have a friend who ties a little tighter, in part due to her having a bit more that needs support. Still, it's not anywhere near "Gone With the Wind" lacing. A couple of years ago, I was helping her out of her corset and *one* of the ends of the lace slipped from my hand (note: I will avoid whenever possible even *touching* the corset of someone who has used lacing that is "slippery" now... she used the synthetic braided boot laces, btw). She dropped, even though I caught it a moment later and wasn't fully released. Straight (almost) down... and she's over a half a foot taller than me, and similar build (overweight). All I could do was slow her fall, and cushion it a bit, as she landed partly on me.... Admittedly it was a warm day, but... And yes, I still feel guilty, even though it was something that 'just happened', not a result of fast loosening on purpose (I'd already let out a few inches twice as well... before the lace slipped). I've been told that lacing from the bottom up helps a *bit* because as you slowly release, things fall into place... top down, things can fall faster, even with a slower release of the strings. YMMV. -Elisabeth >From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >>>Modern medical advice warns against cutting off corsets in the case of >>>fainting, as this can cause serious complications. >>> >>> >>Pray tell, what -- and why? (This could be of very practical interest at >>Renfaires, and/or to those of our listmembers who run >>whatever-genre-of-first-aid at costumed/recreation events.) >> >> > >The blood suddenly rushes into the previously constricted area, causing >blood pressure to drop in other places, like the brain. In extreme cases, >this could lead to a coma. Not good. Removing the corset quickly may be a >good idea, just don't do it too quickly. Unlace it, or take several >seconds to undo the busk, rather than just cutting it off. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 11:38:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FFbxHP025704 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:37:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FFYsOd012764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:34:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FFYrr8022159; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:34:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6FFYmr8022089 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:34:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-116-252-14.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.116.252.14 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2003 15:34:48 -0000 Message-ID: <000c01c34ae6$a0768040$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030715.101005.-76521.1.catpurson@juno.com> <007401c34ae0$89d40890$84cfadcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:34:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was just looking at another Boston MFA catalog that I have, and noticed that the jacket supposedly given by QEI is in here -- with dimensions! It's a woman's waistcoat, linen embroidered with metallic yarns and spangles, trimmed with metallic lace. The length at the center back is 43 cm. (17 in.). The jacket extends past the waist over the hips. The caption says, in part, "These costume parts, among the most important in the McCormick collection, are said to have been given to the wife of Roger Woodhouse by Queen Elizabeth I on August 22, 1578..." [Does this mean it was originally QEI's? Could it have been altered for Mrs. Woodhouse?] ----- oooo! And I just found an image on the MFA's site! With interactive zoom! Try this link: http://www.mfa.org/artemis/fullrecord.asp?oid=116779&did=800 If that doesn't work, go to http://www.mfa.org/artemis/default.asp and search for "jacket" -- item title is "Woman's jacket, England, about 1610-15." - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 11:47:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FFl7HP025736 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:47:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FFheOd013900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:43:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FFhbr8029315; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:43:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FFhUr8029169 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:43:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net15sp47.directcon.net [209.79.209.47] (may be forged)) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h6FFHHk23315; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:17:18 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030715081606.00d25de0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:16:06 -0700 To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric In-Reply-To: <20030715021255.41774.qmail@web11404.mail.yahoo.com> References: <002d01c348d0$3a9a6420$f82fc2cb@ewalpole> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:12 PM 07/14/2003 -0700, Jeff Brainard wrote: >Somewhere online there is an actual transcription of both sets of >sumptuaries that Elizabeth set forth and (I think maybe) the last of >those that her father wrote. If memory serves correct right now (and >because I'm feeling a little indolent) only earls and upward could wear >purple suits and only knights of the king/queen could wear it in >mantles Yes, but what you're missing here is that the restriction is only for purple *silk*. Nothing about purple wool! Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 11:49:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FFnZHP025747 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:49:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FFkOOd014252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:46:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FFkNr8001589; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:46:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f40.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FFkKr8001505 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:46:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:46:15 -0700 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:46:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:46:10 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jul 2003 15:46:15.0665 (UTC) FILETIME=[39A77610:01C34AE8] Subject: [h-cost] Pirates Costume Question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I think you may be right. Confused costumer and creative license probably had a huge part in this decision. I guess if you are the type of person who is of the adament belief that the corset is uncomfortable you might not have enough foresight to realize that that lacing on the shift's sleeves is going to be even more uncomfortable then the corset. I just kept thinking about her dress sleeves pushing that lacing into her flesh and every time she would move her arm, skin would get pinched in between the loose lacing. I have to wonder about people that don't realize that value of comfort. Anyway... until I'm making costumes for big movies... I'll just have to be satisfied with watching and thinking about the why's. :) jessica > >>> nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com 07/14/03 08:22am >>> > --- jessica stier wrote: > > >> she was walking onto the deserted island...). The interesting thing >was > >> this slit on each arm that started about three inches below the >shoulder. > >> This ran somewhere to mid forearm length. It was laced closed. > >> > >> Does anyone remember this detail? Is there historical accuracy to >this? I > >> can't really figure out the point of it. > > >Whioch year is it supposed to be, or even which century? However, in >all >my 17th and early 18th. c. studies I have never ever ever ever come > >across such a thing. Costume designer freedom of choice, my guess. > > >Nicole > >Perhaps a confused recollection of the open sleeve seams of the >mid-17th century? - but that was always the *outer* sleeve, leting the >shirt/shift show through. (I think Jessica said this was the shift >sleeve which was slit?) > _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 11:52:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FFqBHP025770 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:52:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FFmhOd014551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:48:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FFmfr8003216; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:48:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav36.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FFmdr8003103 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:48:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:48:33 -0700 Received: from 12.89.9.27 by bay1-dav36.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:48:33 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [12.89.9.27] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307151421.h6FELgLv019555@net.indra.com> <3F141DD3.7020102@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: why not to release corsets quickly Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:49:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jul 2003 15:48:33.0820 (UTC) FILETIME=[8C003DC0:01C34AE8] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Also for reference if you MUST release a corset quickly (and this is going to sound really weird) lean on the person with your body putting very gentle pressure while you open the corset. This slows the air and blood so that it doesn't rush. Also smelling salts (victorian ladies were very smart) waved in the nasal area will get them moving enough to loosen the corset. Always start snipping the laces at the bootom as the top area is closer to the heart and blood rushing in that area can be risky. Bice http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cozit / Liz" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:29 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: why not to release corsets quickly > BTW, for anyone who works at a ren-faire... if you don't *know* that the > EMTs or whoever is providing First Aid at your event has worked at faire > before and *knows* about corsets and what happens if they're released > too quickly, it's not a bad idea to let them know. I know that the > wonderful EMTs from Anne Arundel Co. who work at MDRF get a reminder > from someone or other at least once a year (and they usually pass it on > to the others who man the booth as well)... and I heard one of them last > year comment that they hadn't realized the consequences, though once > they thought for a moment or two it made perfect sense. > > There is an exception, BTW. If someone is in an extreme heat emergency > and/or is having extreme difficulty in breathing and the corset/bodice > cannot be released easily... then the other situation needs to take > priority over the risk of the quick release... or so I've been told... > I'd double check before you pass *that* part on. > > As far as just how *much*of an effect a quick release can have? I, > personally, do not tie tight.... I like to be able to use a bit more > lung capacity than it would allow... so I tie snug enough to support > what little needs supporting, but no more than a comfy hug (and less > than some hugs I've been given). I have a friend who ties a little > tighter, in part due to her having a bit more that needs support. > Still, it's not anywhere near "Gone With the Wind" lacing. A couple of > years ago, I was helping her out of her corset and *one* of the ends of > the lace slipped from my hand (note: I will avoid whenever possible > even *touching* the corset of someone who has used lacing that is > "slippery" now... she used the synthetic braided boot laces, btw). She > dropped, even though I caught it a moment later and wasn't fully > released. Straight (almost) down... and she's over a half a foot taller > than me, and similar build (overweight). All I could do was slow her > fall, and cushion it a bit, as she landed partly on me.... Admittedly > it was a warm day, but... And yes, I still feel guilty, even though it > was something that 'just happened', not a result of fast loosening on > purpose (I'd already let out a few inches twice as well... before the > lace slipped). > > I've been told that lacing from the bottom up helps a *bit* because as > you slowly release, things fall into place... top down, things can fall > faster, even with a slower release of the strings. > > YMMV. > > -Elisabeth > > > >From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > > >>>Modern medical advice warns against cutting off corsets in the case of > >>>fainting, as this can cause serious complications. > >>> > >>> > >>Pray tell, what -- and why? (This could be of very practical interest at > >>Renfaires, and/or to those of our listmembers who run > >>whatever-genre-of-first-aid at costumed/recreation events.) > >> > >> > > > >The blood suddenly rushes into the previously constricted area, causing > >blood pressure to drop in other places, like the brain. In extreme cases, > >this could lead to a coma. Not good. Removing the corset quickly may be a > >good idea, just don't do it too quickly. Unlace it, or take several > >seconds to undo the busk, rather than just cutting it off. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 12:09:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FG9mHP025880 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:09:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FG1QOd016260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:01:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FG1OPx013631; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:01:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FG1GPx013510 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:01:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A54C2C20098; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:01:16 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A54B1130110; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:01:15 -0500 Message-ID: <00a301c34aea$a92ff140$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307151421.h6FELgLv019555@net.indra.com><3F141DD3.7020102@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: why not to release corsets quickly Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:03:41 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is such an interesting topic. I don't think this has been discussed on the list before. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 12:16:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FGGEHP025904 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:16:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FGD3Od017923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:13:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FGD1Px024349; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FGCvPx024287 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:12:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from susan (ip157.usw19.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [207.202.235.157]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3B39E6B02C for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:12:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004801c34aec$a9fbbad0$0300a8c0@susan> From: "Susan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F102CB1.4030700@faucet.net> <3F1140B4.7753.5D1B432@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting chiffon and other woodgy fabric (was fittingaGFD/cotte) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:18:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I am sewing silk gauze and other really light silks, I starch them. I wash, and then iron and starch. It's time consuming, but makes them actually workable. If I'm going for the real floaty look, I sometimes need to wash it again before I wear it to get the starch out. I just use the spray stuff and, while ironing is best, I have just sprayed the fabric and let it dry (the time I made three dresses out of 30+ yards of silk). Haven't tried it with non-silk fabric, so ymmv > One thing just occured to me... > > What about starch? Or something that would have a similar result? > > I think I remember seeing it or hearing about it somewhere, to help stiffen > slippery fabrics and make them more manageable... > > Or maybe I'm just dreaming? > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 12:20:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FGKtHP025932 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:20:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FGHpOd018577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:17:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FGHnPx028802; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:17:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6FGHkPx028761 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:17:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-118-215-139.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@67.118.215.139 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2003 16:17:45 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:17:27 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <007401c34ae0$89d40890$84cfadcb@michaela> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Yes but our diet now (food additives etc aside) allow us to reach our > full > growth potential Except if your mom is 5'2 and your dad is 5'4, you're doomed to be short, even at "full potential". ;) I'm barely skimming 5 feet tall myself, and it's not due to malnutrition or disease (I'm disgustingly healthy, and have been my whole life). So, sometimes genetics is the only thing you can blame it on... Tho', I would have loved to been slightly taller. I should have stuck with gymnastics, really. ;) Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 12:26:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FGQlHP025953 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:26:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FGNJOd019461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:23:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FGNIPx003758; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:23:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FGNGPx003657 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:23:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net15sp47.directcon.net [209.79.209.47] (may be forged)) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h6FGOkk29276; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:24:46 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030715092335.00d255a0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:23:35 -0700 To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Doublets-n-kirtles-n-skirts, oh my! In-Reply-To: <3F131432.21478.CF3FB1D@localhost> References: <7c.3b384fea.2c446b0d@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:36 PM 07/14/2003 -0700, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > >While I'm sure that they did have sewn-as-one garments, they also, as >evidenced by the inventories and wills of the period (such as in >Janet Arnold's QEWU) have separate bodices and skirts. From what I've >seen in that sort of evidence, they started doing them separately >somewhere around the middle of the 16th C for women's garments. There's also the technique of constructing the bodice and skirt as completely seperate garments and then tacking them together, which is what I usually do. Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 12:33:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FGX1HP026020 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:33:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FGThOd020557 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:29:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FGTcPx009723; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:29:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6FGTWPx009532 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:29:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWt9J6uIeaGGNNzPOwg62J1sXA/QIRfsRCQ==">; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:29:24 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H453SAUN; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:29:24 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:11:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Message-ID: <20030715.121140.-76521.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,15-17 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO <<> Not a chance. They didn't even have penicillin for non military people in the early 40's. I fought them off by staying in bed (in a dark room with measles) and that was all the medication I got. We were a farm family in a very rural area. We ate well because we grew most of our food with the exception of flour and sugar and that sort of thing. Actually, sugar and a lot of other foods were rationed then too, so we didn't get much of the way of sweets. I never received any pain killers (even aspirin) until I was in high school, and very little then. As a matter of fact, my sister almost died with the whooping cough that went into pneumonia and all they could do for her was keep her warm and hydrated at home. Living on a farm in the late 30's and early 40's wasn't much better than Victorian. We didn't even have electricity and running water until the mid 40's. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 12:45:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FGjQHP026040 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:45:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FGg2Od022657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:42:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FGg0Px021084; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:42:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6FGfsPx020942 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:41:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OhcwftPOn75GAJ6q9dE8o64=">; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:41:21 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H454F6QR; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:41:21 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:04:54 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval pins Message-ID: <20030715.081014.816.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-5,7-8,10-16 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oo, fun! My heraldry uses a quartefoil as its primary charge--I could definately find a use for these! ;) Thanks! Arlys On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:35:15 -0400 "Beteena Paradise" writes: > Someone was asking about vendors for medieval pins. Fettered Cock > Pewters sells two styles. One is a quatrefoil and the other is an acorn. > They are at > the bottom of this page: > > http://www.fetteredcockpewters.com/page_various_sundry.htm > > Teena ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 12:47:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FGl6HP026050 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:47:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FGi4Od022867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:44:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FGi3Px022778; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:44:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6FGg7Px021114 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:42:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OhcwftPOn75Gtkx7wa8YPvo=">; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:41:21 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H454F6QP; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:41:21 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:01:09 -0700 Message-ID: <20030715.081014.816.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-43 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Subject: [h-cost] Re: Ripping corsets? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Doesn't that sort of problem mean it was laced too tightly in the first place? Arlys On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:18:29 -0700 Carolyn Kayta Barrows writes: > > >>Modern medical advice warns against cutting off corsets in the > case of > >>fainting, as this can cause serious complications. > > > >Pray tell, what -- and why? (This could be of very practical > interest at > >Renfaires, and/or to those of our listmembers who run > >whatever-genre-of-first-aid at costumed/recreation events.) > > The blood suddenly rushes into the previously constricted area, > causing > blood pressure to drop in other places, like the brain. In extreme > cases, > this could lead to a coma. Not good. Removing the corset quickly > may be a > good idea, just don't do it too quickly. Unlace it, or take several > > seconds to undo the busk, rather than just cutting it off. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 13:13:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHD3HP026111 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:13:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHA2Od026168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FH9wSP015607; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:09:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FH9sSP015550 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:09:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip133.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.133]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B048F6AA5B for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:09:52 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:08:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Doublets-n-kirtles-n-skirts, oh my! Message-ID: <3F13D29A.2090.FDBC1BA@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.20030715092335.00d255a0@pop.directcon.net> References: <3F131432.21478.CF3FB1D@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Forwarded by: "Nicholas Marcelja" Forwarded to: kat Date forwarded: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:30:42 -0700 > >While I'm sure that they did have sewn-as-one garments, they also, as > > evidenced by the inventories and wills of the period (such as in > >Janet Arnold's QEWU) have separate bodices and skirts. From what I've > > seen in that sort of evidence, they started doing them separately > >somewhere around the middle of the 16th C for women's garments. > > There's also the technique of constructing the bodice and skirt as > completely seperate garments and then tacking them together, which is > what I usually do. But they probably had them separately. Why else have them as separate garments in the inventories (when they had the "one piece" dresses listed as well)? The all in one piece dresses are listed as things like "Item one rounde gowne of white Sipers laide upon silver chamblet with some embroiderie of golde like branches of flowers or Nutts" or "Item one French gowne of Carmacion Capha stiped with golde and silver edged with the same stuffe." Then later you get into separate entries for things like kirtles (all in one section, f.37 in the Stowe inventory) listed with foreparts (also a skirt-like thing). (Although in the Folger inventories foreparts got their own section all to themselves, except for when there was a matching doublet.) Sometimes they do have a "Dublet" listed with them, but not always. (Petticoats seem to be listed separately from the kirtles and foreparts.) Then much later you get the section for the "Dublettes". Are you saying that despite that, and despite the existance of extant separate doublets, that they would have sewn/tacked them together always? Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 13:24:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHOjHP026140 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:24:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHLmOd027625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:21:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHLdSP025559; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:21:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHLTSP025373 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:21:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h6FHLRSH006599 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.196.194] (tnt-1-2.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.194]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHLIjP006214 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:21:25 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030715012221.91037.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030715012221.91037.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:39:09 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Another farthingale image was - Re: [h-cost] Making/finding bentrope Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 6:22 PM -0700 7/14/03, Jeff Brainard wrote: >Angloise is an old french version of , the feminine form of >, if that helps. I'll see if I have it in me to transcribe the >whole thing. You may have missed it -- I already posted a transcription from a slightly earlier edition of the material. Don't let that stop you if you're having fun .... Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 13:25:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHPfHP026145 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:25:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHMjOd027778 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:22:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHMiSP026529; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:22:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHMSSP026336 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:22:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-176-46.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.176.46]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 582FD2F984 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:23:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:22:24 -0700 Subject: [h-cost] OT: non costumer friends Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, I do indeed get the idea. Every once in a while my non-costumer boyfriend starts to threaten to chuck crates of fabric at random, and I have to either hide them better, or use them quickly... thank goodness for basements. .heather. On Monday, July 14, 2003, at 03:33 PM, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > If I had only costumer friends, my house would be filled to the roof > with > fabric and patterns and books and sketches and notions and old hats > and old > dresses and old shoes and weird shirts and bizarre pants and... > well... you > get the idea :-) > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 13:28:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHRxHP026160 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:27:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHN0Od027835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHMxSP026741; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:22:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHMqSP026651 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:22:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-2injg04.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.192.4] helo=[165.247.223.20]) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19cTVr-0000x5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:22:51 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:23:00 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Pirates of the Caribbean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK, i just saw "Pirates of the Caribbean" last night and i want a Johnny Depp for my birthday next month... (but, then, i'll rent almost anything with him in it. Not only is he beautiful, but he can *act*) Orlando Bloom, however, doesn't do much for me. He's ok, but i fail to see what the fuss is about. That aside, there were many Many MANY costume "errors" in the movie. I annoyed my friend by leaning over with great frequency commenting on them. But, i enjoyed it anyway - yeah, it's kinda dumb, but it was fun. It's a summer movie. And, sheesh, folks, it's a *fantasy* film, not historical recreation. For those who are uncertain, it's reasonable to ask, "was that 'period'?" But it's silly, IMO, for folks to diss the movie for its fantasy-costume aspects. Also, i hope folks stayed until the end of all the credits for the little tricky bit that came after them... Anahita _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 13:29:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHTlHP026167 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:29:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHP2Oh028101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:26:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHMMSP026212; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:22:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHLWSP025438 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:21:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h6FHLVSH006733 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:21:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.196.194] (tnt-1-2.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.194]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHLIjR006214 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3F13EC60.8D8322DB@optonline.net> References: <20030715022435.98214.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com> <3F13EC60.8D8322DB@optonline.net> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:55:50 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seams - to finish or not to finish Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-DCC-XactSystems-Metrics: net.indra.com 1083; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 7:58 AM -0400 7/15/03, J.A.Urbik wrote: >I think I posted in an erlier post her full name is Katheryn Nikolick, >or Thorkatla Herjolfsdottir. >Also, in carefully looking at the booklet, I discovered that the picture >that I was refering to was from _Buried Norsemen at Heerjolfsnes_ pp109, >Male gown #42. I don't have the book, but those of you who do have it, >can you look at the picture and see what it looks like? It's a black-and-white photograph of the original (conserved) garment, displayed on a form. Since you're looking at the outside of the garment, I don't see how you could get French seams from it. The seams of the center-front gore do show a slight ridge on the main fabric The description notes "The dress ... was taken up whole with the seams joined together. It was neither cut to pieces nor unpicked." but the specific nature of the sleeves is not described. Given this, it can't be ruled out that the odd ridge visible in the photograph could be a byproduct of conservation (i.e.attachment to a backing fabric in a way to take stress off the original seam). It could also be a result of a felled seam. In fact, as I understand French seams, they would seem unlikely to produce this particular visual effect. (That the photograph reproduced badly in the booklet is not at all surprising -- it's fairly mediocre in the original.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 13:30:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHUOHP026174 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:30:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHREOd028388 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:27:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHRDSP000453; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:27:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHRASP000406 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:27:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-176-46.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.176.46]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEF3D2F9CA for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:28:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:27:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] please help with places to visit in Francethissummer/fall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <00fb01c34a71$d5fcf2f0$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> Message-Id: <8E3BA68C-B6E9-11D7-B3EB-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Also not costume related, but my favorite museum in Paris has to be the Rodin museum. If you're a fan of his sculpture, it's a must-see. .heather. On Monday, July 14, 2003, at 06:38 PM, Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > In Paris, you must go to the Musee de la Mode et du Textile, which is > at the > Louvre but has a separate entrance -- NOT in the center pyramid, but > outside > that courtyard. The entrance is on the Rue de Rivoli. > > http://www.ucad.fr/infos_pratiques.htm#107 > > Obviously the Louvre as well. If you're into the 19th century, the > Musee > d'Orsay (http://www.musee-orsay.fr/) is a fabulous art (sorry, no > costumes) > museum -- you can see all the Impressionists etc. > > - Kendra > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 13:42:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHgbHP026212 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:42:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHdZOd029736 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:39:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHdWSP010231; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:39:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt25.cluster1.charter.net (remt25.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHdUSP010134 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:39:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [68.185.167.6] (HELO laptop) by remt25.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with SMTP id 92948149 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:39:24 -0400 Message-ID: <013201c34af8$01537f60$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F131432.21478.CF3FB1D@localhost> <3F13D29A.2090.FDBC1BA@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Doublets-n-kirtles-n-skirts, oh my! Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:39:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO word definition clarification please - by "kirtle" are people meaning petticoat bodies type of garment (i.e. bodice & skirt in one) or a separate skirt (i.e. found in Alcega)? Or are people talking past each other using the same word for both things? I think I'm starting to get lost... Also, if as I have heard elsewhere, the doublet is simply worn over a full gown with bodice attached, what happens to the waist and shoulder treatments from the bodice? wouldn't they show, or at least make some pretty big bulges? ...following conversation closely cuz I'm thinking of adding a doublet for me to the list of things to do... ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 13:44:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHiTHP026225 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:44:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHfZOd029995 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:41:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHfYSP011859; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:41:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHfGSP011532 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:41:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.166.23374654 (4410) for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:40:59 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <166.23374654.2c4596aa@aol.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:40:58 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Doublets-n-kirtles-n-skirts, oh my! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/15/2003 12:10:42 PM Central Standard Time, kat@grendal.rain.com writes: > Are you saying that despite that, and despite the existance of extant > separate doublets, that they would have sewn/tacked them together > always? > Drea pointed out that doublets and high bodied gowns aren't exactly the same thing. Anything that says "gown" is most likely sewn together. Kirtles generally have bodices. The kirtles in Alcega are meant to be sewn together, the only mention of a waist band is for the circular skirts, which are basically petticoats to be worn under the outer garments for warmth and to fluff them out. Most of the skirts in PoF have a distinct slant to the CF which implies they are shaped to the bodice point in the front. One skirt even has the jig-jag look of pleats cut to meet the bottom of the bodice. With the exception of doublets and jerkins, it makes very little sense to make a bodice and skirt seperately (if you're tacking them together, then they are now a gown and one garment). Every single person I know who's ever made a bodice AND skirt outfit, had to put hooks along the waistband of the skirt and the bottom of the bodice to make it look right. Why bother with that? Period construction technique often had seperate pieces of a garment completely finished, then butted together and whipstitched. I do that with my gowns (as far as connecting the skirt to the bodice, finish each edge, then butt and stitch. As far as doublets go, I believe most were worn over a kirtle. -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 13:56:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHuNHP026268 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:56:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHrNOd001627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:53:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHrLSP021702; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:53:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHrHSP021573 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:53:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.17c.1df17964 (4410) for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:52:57 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <17c.1df17964.2c459979@aol.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:52:57 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Doublets-n-kirtles-n-skirts, oh my! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/15/2003 12:40:15 PM Central Standard Time, lotsofteapots@charter.net writes: > word definition clarification please - by "kirtle" are people meaning > petticoat bodies type of garment (i.e. bodice &skirt in one) or a separate > skirt (i.e. found in Alcega)? Or are people talking past each other using > the same word for both things? I think I'm starting to get lost... > We're using "kirtle" as in "Petticoat with bodies". > Also, if as I have heard elsewhere, the doublet is simply worn over a full > gown with bodice attached, what happens to the waist and shoulder treatments > from the bodice? wouldn't they show, or at least make some pretty big > They wouldn't be wearing them over gowns or kirtles with shoulder treatments. The kirtle in PoF, that's meant to be worn under a loose gown, has no shoulder treatments, just bound around the arms and plenty o' eyelets for lacing on sleeves. One probably had a few plain gowns with no shoulder treatments that could be worn under different things. -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 13:56:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHueHP026272 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:56:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHrkOd001703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:53:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHrjSP022014; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:53:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (mta2-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHreSP021949 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:53:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Imedia5043 ([80.1.23.130]) by mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20030715175328.OHZO18309.mta2-svc.business.ntl.com@Imedia5043> for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:53:28 +0100 Message-ID: <036f01c34af9$cf09bd60$39080150@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030715021255.41774.qmail@web11404.mail.yahoo.com><000801c34a7b$392ba3e0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP><027301c34ad6$6df42740$39080150@Imedia5043> <000d01c34ad9$73b58360$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:26:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO and my point was that as silk comes in all shapes and forms then it applied here as the sender was asking about silk brocade Dawn Ages Of Elegance makers of Historical reproduction Clothing, Uniforms and Bridalwear http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 > Many types of fabrics are mentioned: satin, damask, velvet, taffeta, etc. > These can be made of various fibers including, but not limited to, silk.. My > point was that the only fiber associated directly with the color purple is > silk. I often hear people state that the purple itself was restricted by the > sumptuary laws and this is not the case. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 13:57:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHvTHP026277 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:57:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHsYOd001831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:54:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHsXSP022790; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:54:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (mta2-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FHsUSP022764 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:54:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Imedia5043 ([80.1.23.130]) by mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20030715175423.OJDC18309.mta2-svc.business.ntl.com@Imedia5043> for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:54:23 +0100 Message-ID: <037101c34af9$e8a893e0$39080150@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pirates Costume Question Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:38:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO and whilst making costumes for movies I also sit and think WHY!!!!! but as they are paying they obviously know best Dawn Ages Of Elegance makers of Historical reproduction Clothing, Uniforms and Bridalwear http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 > > Anyway... until I'm making costumes for big movies... I'll just have to be > satisfied with watching and thinking about the why's. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 14:05:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FI5dHP026303 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:05:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FI2QOd002881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:02:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FI2MER028895; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:02:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FI18ER027749 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:01:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-2injg04.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.192.4] helo=[165.247.223.20]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19cU6t-0003HP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:01:07 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:01:16 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] pirates of the caribbean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail Finke wrote: >I have been reading all the posts and as Johnny Depp fan (and swashbuckler >movie fan) I am ready to go see the film. But would somebody please email me >privately with the answer to this question: Is it appropriate for children? >I know a couple of parents who are confused about this, because it's >Disney's first PG-13 movie but all the little kids want to see it. Now that >I've read about corsets being ripped off, and of course about skeletal >undead pirates, I can't imagine this being appropriate for Disney's usual >crowd. But none of the reviews I've read have mentioned it. So what do you >think is the lower age limit? Fourteen? Ten? Again, off-list is fine. I would think there's nothing in the movie that could disturb a 14 year old much, unless they are awfully "impressionable". Ten? Well, maybe... Ultimately it depends on your child. If your child is easily frightened, then perhaps not. I'd have brought my daughter at the age 12 or 11. Maybe even 10. There are no sex scenes. There's only a little upper bust exposure. There are lots of skeletons... but they are humorously portrayed at least part of the time. And there's one drunken scene, but only Jack Sparrow (Johnny Depp's character) is drunk... When my daughter was under 13, she said she found realistic movies more frightening because they portrayed things that might happen, but fantasies were not so frightening, since they were obviously not real. This is definitely not a kid's film, but it doesn't have all sorts of things a movie aimed purely at adults would have. The movie has a PG-13 rating because of the "violence" and the skeletal crew. The ratings are a suggestion to parents. Obviously this isn't "the Love Bug" or "Flubber". So you have to decide, based on your knowledge of your child and of the film. Anahita _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 14:10:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FIAUHP026318 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:10:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FI7QOd003536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:07:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FI7NER003377; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:07:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6FI7JER003317 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:07:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 46108 invoked by uid 1005); 15 Jul 2003 18:07:11 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.075404 secs); 15 Jul 2003 18:07:11 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.075404 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 15 Jul 2003 18:07:10 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:07:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Doublets-n-kirtles-n-skirts, oh my! In-Reply-To: <013201c34af8$01537f60$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> Message-ID: <20030715135847.D36368-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 lotsofteapots@charter.net wrote: > word definition clarification please - by "kirtle" are people meaning > petticoat bodies type of garment (i.e. bodice & skirt in one) or a > separate skirt (i.e. found in Alcega)? Or are people talking past each > other using the same word for both things? I think I'm starting to get > lost... "Kirtle" is a confusing term. In Elizabethan England, I've seen more references to kirtles with bodies than to kirtles without; In Alcega's spanish pattern book, most "kirtles" are without bodices. Keep in mind, though, that the word "Kirtle" in Alcega is a translation of a Spanish word, and may well not be precisely what an Elizabethan would have meant when they said "kyrtle". Alcega's our main source for kirtle skirts without bodies attached to them. Of course, he's our main source for a lot of gown construction patterns that noone else saw fit to write down. :) > > Also, if as I have heard elsewhere, the doublet is simply worn over a full > gown with bodice attached, what happens to the waist and shoulder treatments > from the bodice? wouldn't they show, or at least make some pretty big > bulges? > Yup--it would be worn over a kirtle, which wouldn't have as fancy shoulder or waist treatments as a full gown. Whether the kirtle was simply a skirt or a full undergarment is currently unsure; there's references to both, and both were possible. I wear a doublet over a kirtle (with bodies) at http://costume.dm.net/wardrobe/dublet.html, for an example of this. Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 14:32:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FIWsHP026371 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:32:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FITqOd006320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FITpqZ022655; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:29:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FITnqZ022639 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:29:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail23.ureach.com (mailout.ureach.com [172.16.2.83]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA15687 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:29:49 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-200-213.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.213]) by mail23.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA08976 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:29:49 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c34afe$870fbcd0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:25:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I read a study somewhere where they listed the attributes people find attractive in a mate. It said that people find tall people more attractive. If that is so.... then couldn't it just be evolution? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? > Lalah wrote: > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > >>> catpurson@juno.com 07/15/03 03:08pm >>> > << to height in that while your body is busy fighting off infection it > stops > putting valuable resources into non essential things like growing > taller.>>> > > > I find that a bit hard to believe. As a child, I had German > >measles, three day measles, mumps, chicken pox, whooping cough, and > >still grew to be 5'10" tall. My mother was 5'3" tall and came from a > well to > >do family. My dad was 5'11" tall and came from a lower middle class > >family. I suspect it is more in the genes than in the diet or what > >disease we had as kids. > > I'm sure nobody was suggesting that *everyone* who caught childhood > illnesses has ended up short in stature! Of course there have always > been some people with a genetic predisposition to grow tall. There must > be some environmental (or whatever) reason why *average* heights are > increasing, though. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 14:40:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FIeOHP026392 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:40:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FIbBOd007049 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:37:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FIb9qZ028163; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:37:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FIb4qZ028099 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:37:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail22.ureach.com (mail22.ureach.com [172.16.2.82]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18823 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:37:03 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-200-213.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.213]) by mail22.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA13164 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:37:03 -0400 Message-ID: <007a01c34aff$8a0d7700$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030715021255.41774.qmail@web11404.mail.yahoo.com><000801c34a7b$392ba3e0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP><027301c34ad6$6df42740$39080150@Imedia5043><000d01c34ad9$73b58360$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> <036f01c34af9$cf09bd60$39080150@Imedia5043> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:33:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had thought (as had at least one other) that the conversation had changed from the original question as often happens on these threads. Thank you for letting me know that I was mistaken. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Ideas For This Fabric > and my point was that as silk comes in all shapes and forms then it applied > here as the sender was asking about silk brocade > Dawn > Ages Of Elegance makers of Historical reproduction Clothing, Uniforms and > Bridalwear > http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 > > > > Many types of fabrics are mentioned: satin, damask, velvet, taffeta, etc. > > These can be made of various fibers including, but not limited to, silk.. > My > > point was that the only fiber associated directly with the color purple is > > silk. I often hear people state that the purple itself was restricted by > the > > sumptuary laws and this is not the case. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 14:55:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FItNHP026448 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:55:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FIq9Od008779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:52:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FIq7qZ010548; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:52:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt29.cluster1.charter.net (remt29.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FIq3qZ010416 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:52:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [68.185.167.6] (HELO laptop) by remt29.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with SMTP id 80254222 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:51:57 -0400 Message-ID: <015d01c34b02$2206e1c0$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030715135847.D36368-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Doublets-n-kirtles-n-skirts, oh my! Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:51:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Drea & Sarah - that helps me picture it much better! So, I need to add a bodies to the skirt I have and then I can make a doublet to go over it. (sketching and planning and plotting in my head...) And you know, putting that skirt on a bodice will help the wearing of it soooooooo much - that thing is damned heavy! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 15:52:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FJqpHP026616 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:52:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FJnpOd015906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:49:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FJno9N029520; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:49:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FJnk9N029468 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:49:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-12hc6te.cable.mindspring.com ([69.22.27.174] helo=earthlink.net) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19cVo1-00048h-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:49:45 -0700 Message-ID: <3F145AE9.6050900@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:50:01 -0500 From: Charlene Charette User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: why not to release corsets quickly References: <200307151421.h6FELgLv019555@net.indra.com><3F141DD3.7020102@comcast.net> <00a301c34aea$a92ff140$0400a8c0@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <00a301c34aea$a92ff140$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny Ladnier wrote: > This is such an interesting topic. I don't think this has been discussed on > the list before. I could have sworn I learned all this before from the list. If it has been discussed here it's been awhile. A useful topic to come up once in awhile. Any other costume safety tips/concerns? Personally, I'm terrified to walk near open camp fires in full skirts. --Charlene -- The object of education is to prepare the young to educate themselves throughout their lives. --Robert Maynard Hutchings _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 16:05:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FK5cHP026642 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:05:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FK2cOd017522 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:02:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FK2aAY010312; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:02:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13404.mail.yahoo.com (web13404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6FK2XAY010271 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:02:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030715200233.37367.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.170] by web13404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:02:33 PDT Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:02:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting chiffon and other woodgy fabric (was fitting aGFD/cotte) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F131432.9856.CF3FC17@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Didn't Threads Magazine have an article in a recent issue about sewing with sheers? -- Mara __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 16:32:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKW8HP026713 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:32:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKSnOd020666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:28:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKSmAY002253; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:28:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41511.mail.yahoo.com (web41511.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6FKSiAY002139 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:28:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030715202839.77755.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41511.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:28:39 BST Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:28:39 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Kate M Bunting wrote: > > been some people with a genetic predisposition to grow tall. There must > be some environmental (or whatever) reason why *average* heights are > increasing, though. Are they, Kate? Are they really? It seems to me that in this country (England) people are getting shorter and smaller. The students at university seem tinier and tinier, is it really true that people are getting taller in all countries? Sure, in Denmark many girls were very tall, but here? Just a thought. Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 16:34:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKYgHP026719 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:34:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKVHOd020996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:31:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKVFAY004298; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:31:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt20.cluster1.charter.net (remt20.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKV7AY004104 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:31:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [68.185.167.6] (HELO laptop) by remt20.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with SMTP id 93241524 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:31:01 -0400 Message-ID: <016d01c34b0f$f8100d20$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307151421.h6FELgLv019555@net.indra.com><3F141DD3.7020102@comcast.net><00a301c34aea$a92ff140$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <3F145AE9.6050900@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:30:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Re: costume safety tips X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Charlene, > Any other costume safety tips/concerns? > > Personally, I'm terrified to walk near open camp fires in full skirts. I am currently working at Bristol Renn Faire around a cooking fire in a middle-class Eliz. gown. Mostly, I just keep an eye on where my skirts are. I also have made my gown of wool (less likely to start burning if a spark happens to land on it). However, my underskirt is linen, and I have had no problems (yet!) I think just being aware is the best thing. Also, a cooking fire does not, and in fact should not, be a roaring bonfire, but a nice, small, controllable flame that makes coals to cook over. > > --Charlene > > -- > The object of education is to prepare the young to educate themselves > throughout their lives. --Robert Maynard Hutchings Ack! My alma mater is U of Chicago - I haven't heard anything of Hutchins in a *loooooooong* time! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 16:46:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKjoHP026739 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:46:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKgSOd022429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:42:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKgQAY013336; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:42:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.186]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6FKgOAY013315 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:42:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-118-215-139.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@67.118.215.139 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2003 20:42:23 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:42:04 -0700 Subject: Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030715202839.77755.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OAre they, Kate? Are they really? It seems to me that in this country (England) > people are getting shorter and smaller. The students at university > seem tinier > and tinier, is it really true that people are getting taller in all > countries? > Sure, in Denmark many girls were very tall, but here? > Just a thought. My fiance was working for an elementary school this past year and while not every kid was gargantuan, there seemed to be an increasing number of *girls* who were taller than what the average was when I was a 4th and 5th grader. Boys seemed to stay around the same height over the last 20 years, but girls have been getting bigger and developing sooner, and that is actually a scientifically supported fact here in the States. Also, looking at children's shoes (which I often do because I can still wear them...), I've noticed that sizing has changed in the last 20 years as well. What I wore as an 8 year old is about three sizes smaller than what the same age group apparently wears today, although the size name has stayed the same. For instance, a size 3 US girls is about the same as a size 6 or 7 US women's. When I wore a size 3 girls, it was about 3 sizes smaller than a women's size 6. This doesn't mean that females in general are getting bigger, just that they're reaching their adult heights (and in a lot of cases, the rest of their adult baggage like menstruation) a lot sooner than before. Some people speculate that this is because of hormones used to beef up cattle making their way into the food chain via milk and other cattle products. I'm not sure if it's been proven, but it's so far the most popular assumption. Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 16:48:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKmsHP026749 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:48:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKjlOd022861 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:45:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKjjAY016206; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:45:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKjgAY016143 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:45:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.181] (pm5-181.eos.net [205.133.149.181]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13462 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:45:39 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:39:43 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200307151421.h6FELgLv019555@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: average height X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No one has said it, so I thought I'd remind anyone thinking about the average height of European populations that during the times that the average size was smaller than ours, there would still be a range similar to ours. In other words, there WERE tall people. Just not as many of them. Most of us know this but it's the kind of information newer folks to historical research often find surprising. And I apologize for my awful grammar, grammar and I aren't getting along today. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 16:58:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKwWHP026756 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:58:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKtTOd024067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:55:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKtTo0024448; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:55:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKtOo0024268 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:55:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-105-129.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.105.129]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFV98595; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:55:11 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <000601c34b14$00767c20$81694ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030715202839.77755.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:59:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Are they, Kate? Are they really? It seems to me that in this country (England) people are getting shorter and smaller. I disagree, you see things from way up there because you come from a land of giants ;) On the other hand I'm not so tall & have to look up at these teenagers ! Seriously, research shows bigger people in this country(UK) than in the past and younger ages for period starting . Personal experiance backs this up, I used to be tall at 5 ft 6inches, but compared to modern female teenagers I'm not. Also Children' s clothes attract no VAT here as most Mums will tell you teenagers don't fit kids clothes generally. I don't count Alex as he has too much Germanic blood to be counted as proper English ;0) But I will cite middle child Bryony, who when she left for france was size 2 shoe (who know what she is now) she is 9 (8 when she left) Size 1 English used to be the first adult size (Victorian times) But the 50s 60s 4 was the sample (standard) size. Now you struggle to find any younger girl with feet that small. >The students at university seem tinier and tinier, is it really true that people are getting taller in all countries? Maybe a large asian influence ? I suppose if you took a mix of people in Leicester as opposed to Leicestershire you would get smaller average as the Asian population tends to be smaller ? >Sure, in Denmark many girls were very tall, but here? Yes , we are smaller than our industrial ancestors (if we talk white caucasion(sp)), but about the same as our 9th C Anglo Saxon ancestors (Germaic influence perhaps ? ) and still smaller than your average European Hunter Gatherer, by most accounts. It isn't one factor at all, but a combination of things. I'm not convinced there is a big genetic influence that might make bigger people since Victorian times, in England so I agree environment is influencing this. But it influences the potential in the genes. So to show a parallel however well you feed a Shetland he won't get as big as a racehorse. But if you don't feed you racehorse well he won't get to his full height. One of my horses never made full height as somebody shot her in the eye & I believe resources went to healing that rather than growing.I could go on about biological examples but they arn't costume related. So I will finish on people in victorian period were however bigger(from skeletal evidence) than the tiny clothes more often found tend to indicate, see costume content !! Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 16:59:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKx9HP026762 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:59:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKt7Od024024 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:55:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKt3o0024084; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:55:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41504.mail.yahoo.com (web41504.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.87]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6FKsxAY023943 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:54:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030715205454.21365.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:54:54 BST Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:54:54 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th or early 17th century umbrellas/colouredshirts To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20030715092149.T23555-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is a 1715 French advert for collpasible rain-umbrellas (paraplui) Too late for your question, but nevertheless an amusing snippet of info. ;-) Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 17:00:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FL0eHP026771 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:00:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKvXOd024334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:57:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKvWo0026203; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:57:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FKvRo0026044 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:57:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.c1.3425249d (4116) for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:57:20 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:57:20 EDT Subject: Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/15/03 4:36:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes: > Are they, Kate? Are they really? It seems to me that in this country > (England) > people are getting shorter and smaller. The students at university seem > tinier > and tinier, is it really true that people are getting taller in all > countries? > Sure, in Denmark many girls were very tall, but here? > Just a thought. To me it seems that the girls in my school keep getting smaller and smaller- I was 5' even when I hit 5th grade, and the girls in 5th grade at my school last year (we go 5th through 12th, or ages 10-18, for anyone outside of the US) were TINY! Say, 4'6"! I felt giant next to them, and I'm just under 5'4". Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 17:03:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FL3tHP026781 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:03:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FL0aOd024704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:00:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FL0Yo0028637; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:00:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FL0Uo0028565 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:00:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-105-129.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.105.129]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFV99164; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:00:28 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <001901c34b14$bd750da0$81694ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:04:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >This doesn't mean that females in general are getting bigger, just that they're reaching their adult heights (and in a lot of cases, the rest of their adult baggage like menstruation) a lot sooner than before. This is also true it seems, looking skeletally again. >Some people speculate that this is because of hormones used to beef up cattle making their way into the food chain via milk and other cattle products. Not sure I'm completly convinced on that, as my son was about the height & musculatur he is now at 13(he has grown maybe 2 inches in 4 years). And he is very well muscled ! Given he only had 'normal' food for the first four years of his life then was on an adative free diet, including totally organic meat, milk etc etc I'm pretty sure no hormones beefed him up :) However he is very physically active and this increases bone mass and can be seen in the skeletal record. the AS popuklation I know best are very very muscular (men & Women) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 17:30:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FLUhHP026837 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:30:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FLRbOd028045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:27:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FLRXo0021132; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:27:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FLRNo0020994 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:27:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h6FLRl300718 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:27:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:27:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200307152127.h6FLRl300718@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Melanie Wilson" wrote: [...] > But I will cite middle child Bryony, who when she left for france was size 2 > shoe (who know what she is now) she is 9 (8 when she left) Size 1 English > used to be the first adult size (Victorian times) But the 50s 60s 4 was the > sample (standard) size. Now you struggle to find any younger girl with feet > that small. Yeah, the clogmaker in Wigan that I ordered my stepdancing clogs from remembers me every time I call. He says there aren't too many people who wear a size 2 clog (okay, it'd be size 3 now, as my feet have gotten a little more deformed from the arthritis). Especially someone from California with size 2 clogs. Walter has made clogs for a number of us out here, but I'm the one he rememebers because I have such freakishly small feet. And I just have to forget buying formal women's shoes that fit. For that matter, the smallest adult Birkenstock size is a little too large for me... Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 17:39:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FLdpHP026865 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:39:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FLaoOd029420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:36:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FLamo0029172; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:36:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FLaho0029115 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:36:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) QAA02648 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:36:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <000e01c34b19$42d92ae0$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030715202839.77755.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> <000601c34b14$00767c20$81694ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:37:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I remember reading recently that the Rolling Stones were just amazed at the height and more solid build of most Americans on their first American tour way back in the early 60's. Seems the kids of during and postwar UK didn't do too much growing limited to the ration cards that were used up to the early 50's or so. And their parents had insufficient prenatal nutrition themselves. WWI had also done some major depleting of the gene pool as so many men were killed in the war, many of the tallest and strongest. One positive thing that came out of WWI from the British standpoint was that so many men didn't meet minimum standards; that was blamed on poor nutrition and created an awareness of the shortfalls in the British diet for the poor. The 1917-19 influenza epidemic also killed a large part of the 20-40 yr age cohort worldwide. Also my grandfather's small town Iowa community had a lot of German POW's during WWII. These POW's worked on the farms and most never remembered having such plenty growing up during and after post WWI Germany as they saw on American tables. This was during wartime rationing. Not a few of these POW's were really teenagers and the farmers and their wives wouldn't put these kids to work until they got them fed and healthy by American standards. They were appalled by what these kids could tell them about the average standard of living in Germany. The German kids, if they had any family to write home to, were able to assure their families that they were well-fed and well-treated. I believe there was at least one of these very young POW's, that lost all of his family, was able to get American sponsorship and stay in the U.S. I'm just under 5 ft and thought fine-boned, but I was raised on plenty of whole milk and Wonder Bread as a baby-boomer and even though I was always the tiniest kid in the class, I could barely squeeze into a circa 1900 wool and braid commercially-made ladies' jacket as a teenager as my wide, but bony shoulders, made very difficult. I still have the jacket, btw--it has a few moth holes as it was stored for many years before I inheirted it and if fit me now, I could weigh no more than 80 lbs I think! Cindy Abel Cindy Abel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 3:59 PM Subject: Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? > >Are they, Kate? Are they really? It seems to me that in this country > (England) > people are getting shorter and smaller. > > I disagree, you see things from way up there because you come from a land of > giants ;) On the other hand I'm not so tall & have to look up at these > teenagers ! > > Seriously, research shows bigger people in this country(UK) than in the past > and younger ages for period starting . Personal experiance backs this up, I > used to be tall at 5 ft 6inches, but compared to modern female teenagers I'm > not. Also Children' s clothes attract no VAT here as most Mums will tell you > teenagers don't fit kids clothes generally. I don't count Alex as he has > too much Germanic blood to be counted as proper English ;0) > > But I will cite middle child Bryony, who when she left for france was size 2 > shoe (who know what she is now) she is 9 (8 when she left) Size 1 English > used to be the first adult size (Victorian times) But the 50s 60s 4 was the > sample (standard) size. Now you struggle to find any younger girl with feet > that small. > > >The students at university seem tinier > and tinier, is it really true that people are getting taller in all > countries? > > Maybe a large asian influence ? I suppose if you took a mix of people in > Leicester as opposed to Leicestershire you would get smaller average as the > Asian population tends to be smaller ? > > >Sure, in Denmark many girls were very tall, but here? > > Yes , we are smaller than our industrial ancestors (if we talk white > caucasion(sp)), but about the same as our 9th C Anglo Saxon ancestors > (Germaic influence perhaps ? ) and still smaller than your average European > Hunter Gatherer, by most accounts. It isn't one factor at all, but a > combination of things. > > I'm not convinced there is a big genetic influence that might make bigger > people since Victorian times, in England so I agree environment is > influencing this. But it influences the potential in the genes. So to show a > parallel however well you feed a Shetland he won't get as big as a > racehorse. But if you don't feed you racehorse well he won't get to his full > height. One of my horses never made full height as somebody shot her in the > eye & I believe resources went to healing that rather than growing.I could > go on about biological examples but they arn't costume related. So I will > finish on people in victorian period were however bigger(from skeletal > evidence) than the tiny clothes more often found tend to indicate, see > costume content !! > > Mel > > This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received > it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose > the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of > this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the > Company, unless specifically stated. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 17:45:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FLjkHP026883 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:45:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FLgjOd000195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:42:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FLgfo0004153; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:42:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13408.mail.yahoo.com (web13408.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6FLgco0004124 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:42:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030715214238.36849.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.49.91.100] by web13408.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:42:38 PDT Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:42:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20030715.101005.-76521.1.catpurson@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, our genes haven't changed greatly in the last several hundred years. So disease and nutrition obviously play a big role. -- Mara --- catpurson@juno.com wrote: > I find that a bit hard to believe. As a child, I had > German > measles, three day measles, mumps, chicken pox, whooping cough, and > still > grew to be 5'10" tall. My mother was 5'3" tall and came from a > well to > do family. My dad was 5'11" tall and came from a lower middle > class > family. I suspect it is more in the genes than in the diet or what > disease we had as kids. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 17:51:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FLpZHP026902 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:51:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FLmUOd000924 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:48:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FLmRo0008665; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:48:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13404.mail.yahoo.com (web13404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6FLmKo0008559 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:48:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030715214820.54961.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.49.91.100] by web13404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:48:20 PDT Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:48:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <007401c34ae0$89d40890$84cfadcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Another thing -- I think the reason we think that "people were shorter back then" is that ceilings in many historic homes are low, as are door lintels. Well, by that reasoning, Southerners must have been giants in the 18th century, whereas Northerners were dwarfs. The real answer? Ceilings were lower in Northern houses to conserve heat, whereas they were higher in the South to dissipate it. Clothes being smaller? Well, if you figure that many of the clothes preserved are wedding or fancy ball dresses, which were worn by young women -- I don't fit into the wedding dress I wore at 21, either, alas! Beds were shorter? People slept in a semi-sitting position in the 18th c., so needed less footroom. The current clothing exhibit at Williamsburg has a chart on the wall that shows the heights of a number of known individuals in the 18th and 20th centuries, as well as the averages. The average height for both men and women appears to have been about an inch less than the current average. -- Mara __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 17:56:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FLuqHP026911 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:56:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FLrjOd001548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:53:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FLrgo0012884; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:53:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13407.mail.yahoo.com (web13407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6FLrco0012837 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:53:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030715215338.7790.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.49.91.100] by web13407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:53:38 PDT Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:53:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: why not to release corsets quickly To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F141DD3.7020102@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ooof! Now that's tightlacing... I lace my 18th c. style stays from the bottom up. Had a lace break this spring with no adverse effects, other than a bit of cursing on my part about the breakage . A few years ago I was asked to help make a wedding dress for a friend of a friend. She showed up with a RenFaire corset, and had to be laced into it so tightly that I was sure the thing was going to burst. She swore up and down that it fit perfectly, and that the salespeople who sold it to her even told her it was a bit on the large side. Never mind that the corset bore no resemblance to a historical design; it made me wonder about legal liability on the part of the folks who sold her this thing! -- Mara --- Cozit / Liz wrote: > I have a friend who ties a little > tighter, in part due to her having a bit more that needs support. > Still, it's not anywhere near "Gone With the Wind" lacing. A > couple of > years ago, I was helping her out of her corset and *one* of the > ends of > the lace slipped from my hand (note: I will avoid whenever > possible > even *touching* the corset of someone who has used lacing that is > "slippery" now... she used the synthetic braided boot laces, btw). > She > dropped, even though I caught it a moment later and wasn't fully > released. (snip) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 18:17:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FMHTHP026948 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:17:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FMEGOd004063 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:14:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FMEB9b029363; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:14:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41507.mail.yahoo.com (web41507.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6FME69b029214 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:14:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030715221401.52824.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:14:01 BST Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:14:01 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000601c34b14$00767c20$81694ed5@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Melanie Wilson wrote: > >Are they, Kate? Are they really? It seems to me that in this country > (England) > people are getting shorter and smaller. > > I disagree, you see things from way up there because you come from a land of > giants ;) On the other hand I'm not so tall & have to look up at these > teenagers ! *laughs!* Okay, I stand corrected, next time I bang my head against some ridiculously low doorway I blame the land of giants. :-) Costume content? Nah, too hot and I should be in bed. Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 18:22:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FMMRHP026959 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:22:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FMJUOd004657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:19:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FMJT9b003411; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:19:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FMJP9b003288 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:19:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-119-48.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.119.48]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFW06642; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:19:17 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00a101c34b1f$c067bfc0$81694ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030715202839.77755.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com><000601c34b14$00767c20$81694ed5@pavilion> <000e01c34b19$42d92ae0$55c98693@creighton.edu> Subject: Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:23:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Also my grandfather's small town Iowa community had a lot of German POW's during WWII. These POW's worked on the farms and most never remembered having such plenty growing up during and after post WWI Germany as they saw on American tables Interestingly my Uncle a British POW, on seeing German soldiers thought they were so well fed and well built that he was amazed ! Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 18:51:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FMpXHP027068 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:51:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FMmMOd007918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:48:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FMmL9b025821; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:48:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law8-oe49.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FMmG9b025696 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:48:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:48:10 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by law8-oe49.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:48:10 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <670A81F9-B4D0-11D7-8616-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030714234539.00bbcc18@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:48:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jul 2003 22:48:10.0743 (UTC) FILETIME=[2A9DD070:01C34B23] Subject: [h-cost] About costumer friends X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > >If I had only costumer friends, my house would be filled to the roof with > >fabric and patterns and books and sketches and notions and old hats and old > >dresses and old shoes and weird shirts and bizarre pants and... well... you > >get the idea :-) > > And you say this like it's a bad thing? ;-) > > Dawn Well, it's a good thing in itself... but it would end up making me feel like I didn't do anything else in my life but pile up stuff. And I'd also feel bad because all that stuff wouldn't be used for anything else than my looking at it once in a while. And I'm also a believer that everything has to be done with a certain amount of... hmm... restraint? If I let myself get everything I want, I don't think I'll enjoy it as much as if I get things as a treat once in a while, or as a gift. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 18:55:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FMtHHP027084 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:55:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FMqKOd008514 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:52:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FMqK9b028538; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:52:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FMqH9c028493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:52:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6FMqhbh028047 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:52:44 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6FMqhGZ028045 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:52:43 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval pins Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:52:43 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20030715021255.41774.qmail@web11404.mail.yahoo.com> <000b01c34ad5$ecca0d60$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> In-Reply-To: <000b01c34ad5$ecca0d60$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307151852.43468.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 15 July 2003 09:35 am, Beteena Paradise wrote: > Someone was asking about vendors for medieval pins. Fettered Cock Pewters > sells two styles. One is a quatrefoil and the other is an acorn. They are > at the bottom of this page: > > http://www.fetteredcockpewters.com/page_various_sundry.htm Thanks for the URL--I wasn't familiar with this site, but it looks great! -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 18:56:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FMuFHP027088 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:56:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FMrJOd008657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:53:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FMrI9b029230; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:53:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FMrG9b029211 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:53:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.173] (pm5-173.eos.net [205.133.149.173]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19776 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:53:14 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:47:17 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200307152100.h6FL0to1028956@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 426 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 7/15/03 5:00 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com at h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > > I read a study somewhere where they listed the attributes people find > attractive in a mate. It said that people find tall people more attractive. > If that is so.... then couldn't it just be evolution? > That would be pretty fast evolution! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 19:10:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FNAHHP027155 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:10:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FN71Od010256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FN6xGI009498; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law8-oe48.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FN6dGI009203 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:06:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:06:33 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by law8-oe48.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:06:33 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307151421.h6FELgLv019555@net.indra.com><3F141DD3.7020102@comcast.net><00a301c34aea$a92ff140$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <3F145AE9.6050900@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: why not to release corsets quickly Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:07:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jul 2003 23:06:33.0845 (UTC) FILETIME=[BC1DD250:01C34B25] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Personally, I'm terrified to walk near open camp fires in full skirts. > > --Charlene Well... depends what they're made of. Natural fibers will burn, but they won't do anything nasty, they won't melt, and they're relatively easy to put out. Though it would be sad to burn something you've taken a lot of time making :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 20:33:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G0XZHP027320 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:33:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G0TMOd019041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:29:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G0TIW9003195; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:29:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G0TDW9003138 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:29:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-63.208.42.13.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([63.208.42.13] helo=Dan) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19caAS-0001Hs-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:29:12 -0400 Message-ID: <01d401c34b31$7f5a2240$f1e34bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030715202839.77755.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> <000601c34b14$00767c20$81694ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:30:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've also heard the theory that extant(?) garments/clothing were items that were for unusual shaped/sized people. And for whatever reason were not cut down or remade. Genie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 3:59 PM Subject: Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? > >Are they, Kate? Are they really? It seems to me that in this country > (England) > people are getting shorter and smaller. > > I disagree, you see things from way up there because you come from a land of > giants ;) On the other hand I'm not so tall & have to look up at these > teenagers ! > > Seriously, research shows bigger people in this country(UK) than in the past > and younger ages for period starting . Personal experiance backs this up, I > used to be tall at 5 ft 6inches, but compared to modern female teenagers I'm > not. Also Children' s clothes attract no VAT here as most Mums will tell you > teenagers don't fit kids clothes generally. I don't count Alex as he has > too much Germanic blood to be counted as proper English ;0) > > But I will cite middle child Bryony, who when she left for france was size 2 > shoe (who know what she is now) she is 9 (8 when she left) Size 1 English > used to be the first adult size (Victorian times) But the 50s 60s 4 was the > sample (standard) size. Now you struggle to find any younger girl with feet > that small. > > >The students at university seem tinier > and tinier, is it really true that people are getting taller in all > countries? > > Maybe a large asian influence ? I suppose if you took a mix of people in > Leicester as opposed to Leicestershire you would get smaller average as the > Asian population tends to be smaller ? > > >Sure, in Denmark many girls were very tall, but here? > > Yes , we are smaller than our industrial ancestors (if we talk white > caucasion(sp)), but about the same as our 9th C Anglo Saxon ancestors > (Germaic influence perhaps ? ) and still smaller than your average European > Hunter Gatherer, by most accounts. It isn't one factor at all, but a > combination of things. > > I'm not convinced there is a big genetic influence that might make bigger > people since Victorian times, in England so I agree environment is > influencing this. But it influences the potential in the genes. So to show a > parallel however well you feed a Shetland he won't get as big as a > racehorse. But if you don't feed you racehorse well he won't get to his full > height. One of my horses never made full height as somebody shot her in the > eye & I believe resources went to healing that rather than growing.I could > go on about biological examples but they arn't costume related. So I will > finish on people in victorian period were however bigger(from skeletal > evidence) than the tiny clothes more often found tend to indicate, see > costume content !! > > Mel > > This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received > it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose > the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of > this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the > Company, unless specifically stated. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 22:49:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G2nvHP027559 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:49:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G2ksOd001850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:46:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G2kqnp021724; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:46:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G2kmnp021660 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:46:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p40-max8.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.204.104] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19ccJZ-0003d4-00; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:46:45 +1200 Message-ID: <00de01c34b44$83fa8ac0$68ccadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: average height Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:46:53 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > No one has said it, so I thought I'd remind anyone thinking about the > average height of European populations that during the times that the > average size was smaller than ours, there would still be a range similar to > ours. In other words, there WERE tall people. Just not as many of them. Most > of us know this but it's the kind of information newer folks to historical > research often find surprising. Oh yes, Mary of Hungary's dress dimentions are practically the same as the dress I made myself (Though I di make the skirt longer as it was more an interpretation of the dress not a replica). And there is mention of people being taller too. There were also times when the average height was as tall posibly taller. It's thought that urbanisation is the most likely contributor to the height issue. No refridgeration etc sanitary conditions were porrer. Especially in Victorian England (possibly other countries.. but I've not read anything particularly in that regard) the industrial evolution and all it's pollution also contributed. > Except if your mom is 5'2 and your dad is 5'4, you're doomed to be > short, even at "full potential". ;) Yeah but you can't reach that full potential if environment > I'm barely skimming 5 feet tall myself, and it's not due to > malnutrition or disease (I'm disgustingly healthy, and have been my > whole life). So, sometimes genetics is the only thing you can blame it > on... Tell that to people who seriously research genetic factors. You cannot take genetic code and determine what an organism will turn out to be. Environment plays a far bigger factor in how we turn out than you may think. Which is why breatfeeding is so important, as new borns we need a kickstart for our immune system to work, and we get that through breast milk. That is environment over genes. I have RA. There is thought to be a genetic *predisposition* but it doesn't mean if you have that you will get RA. There is soem kind of triggering event. And it may take years for it to be expressed or a few weeks in my case (and I know of others who had a phyical trauma triggering event). And no, our genes can't change that quickly to have short people in some eras and tall people (average) in others;) Though there is some interesting info about how quickly an eye can evolve from photosenstive skin but we are talking a very very long time as far as human culural evolution is concerned;) As for garments only being preserved because they were of people with out of norm shapes.. I doubt it. Especially as a lot of the garments are from tombs, or bogs, or unearthed in some way prior to whenever... Then the huge amount of items from the 18th and 19thC.. there's just too much to suggest they were saved because no one else could use them. There would have been enough people of those times who could have used or had passed down items. And of course peopel interested in history, or purely sentimental and wanted to keep their garments. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 23:13:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G3DjHP027589 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:13:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G3AaOd003917 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:10:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G3AZb1004255; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:10:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G3AXb1004178 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:10:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.161.89])3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFP27094; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 04:10:23 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <004c01c34b48$68b7a460$59a14ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030715202839.77755.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com><000601c34b14$00767c20$81694ed5@pavilion> <01d401c34b31$7f5a2240$f1e34bab@Dan> Subject: Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 04:14:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I've also heard the theory that extant(?) garments/clothing were items that were for unusual shaped/sized people. And for whatever reason were not cut down or remade I tend to believe extant garment were either special garments or those that could not be cut down further, of course this is a generalisation. Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 15 23:47:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G3l5HP027656 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:47:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G3h0Od006893 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G3gwb1021755; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:42:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11407.mail.yahoo.com (web11407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6G3gtb1021732 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:42:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030716034255.28492.qmail@web11407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.152] by web11407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:42:55 PDT Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:42:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval pins To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000b01c34ad5$ecca0d60$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO fettered cock? sounds more like an associate of Mr.S (well known leather shop in the Castro--I'm sure Heather lives across the street or something) J. --- Beteena Paradise wrote: > Someone was asking about vendors for medieval pins. Fettered Cock > Pewters > sells two styles. One is a quatrefoil and the other is an acorn. They > are at > the bottom of this page: > > http://www.fetteredcockpewters.com/page_various_sundry.htm > > Teena > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 00:03:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G43AHP027696 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:03:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G40GOd008621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:00:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G40ExY001632; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:00:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G40CxY001596 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:00:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-67.73.128.11.dial1.chicago1.level3.net ([67.73.128.11] helo=earthlink.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19cdSd-0006Tv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:00:11 -0700 Message-ID: <3F14CD5A.A8F7100D@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:58:18 -0500 From: Ms Berard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? References: <20030715.101005.-76521.1.catpurson@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How do you know that you wouldn't been *taller* if you had not had German measles, three day measles, mumps, chicken pox, whooping cough? Onaree catpurson@juno.com wrote: > > I find that a bit hard to believe. As a child, I had German > measles, three day measles, mumps, chicken pox, whooping cough, and still > grew to be 5'10" tall. My mother was 5'3" tall and came from a well to > do family. My dad was 5'11" tall and came from a lower middle class > family. I suspect it is more in the genes than in the diet or what > disease we had as kids. > > Lalah > Never give up, Never surrender > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Proud list mom of Irish Crochet Lovers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Irish_Crochet_Lovers/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 00:05:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G45gHP027706 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:05:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G42hOd008847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:02:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G42gxY002939; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:02:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G42dxZ002899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:02:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (acty1191.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.242.191]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h6G42gG5002621 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:02:43 -0400 Message-ID: <3F14CD88.5050205@dandy.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:59:04 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: pirates of the caribbean References: <149495193.20030714124843@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. Just to add a little more fuel to the fire, and then I'll retire (as they used to say, start the fight and then offer to hold the coats...). If the Lady was too tightly laced, then maybe she should have directed her venom towards the cause of the problem..it seems that the whole "joke" of the thing was directed toward the not-so-knowledgeable (read "gullible" ) public who equate corsetting with horrible deformities and some sort of male induced bondage/punishment ritual. If some of you did indeed gather something else from the plotline, then perhaps there was more to the thing than first attacked my senses. I am also partially offended because, as usual, Hollywood has taken a legitimate historical period, with legitimate historical documentation regarding the lives of some nautical criminal elements, and made it "jolly good fun". It is very hard to do any mid to late 17th Cent. or early 18th Cent. reenactment of any military or nautical type without (especially after such a film) being bombarded with people wanting their kids to have their pictures taken with "the pirates", then not wanting to be provided with any real information of any historical value. It maked the job harder for folks actually reenacting "The Golden Age of Piracy", or almost any maritime venture. And besides, I don't think I've ever seen a pirate with mascara (though, if it helps them get through their day, I say, go for it) ;) Trying to get off the Hook, Mike T. > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 00:05:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G45kHP027710 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:05:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G42qOd008867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:02:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G42pxY003064; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:02:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.186]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6G42mxY003015 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:02:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-118-215-139.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@67.118.215.139 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2003 04:02:48 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:02:28 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: average height Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <00de01c34b44$83fa8ac0$68ccadcb@michaela> Message-Id: <50C827DD-B742-11D7-BAB3-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> I'm barely skimming 5 feet tall myself, and it's not due to >> malnutrition or disease (I'm disgustingly healthy, and have been my >> whole life). So, sometimes genetics is the only thing you can blame >> it >> on... > > Tell that to people who seriously research genetic factors. You cannot > take > genetic code and determine what an organism will turn out to be. > Environment > plays a far bigger factor in how we turn out than you may think. > Which is why breatfeeding is so important, as new borns we need a > kickstart > for our immune system to work, and we get that through breast milk. > That is > environment over genes. I never said environment had no effect. I was breast fed, and my mom was when she was pregnant with me, the model of perfect health, but there is no way on God's green earth that with parents as short as mine I would ever be taller than I am. It's just not gonna happen naturally (disregarding some wild chance that I would have a recessive disorder such as Marfan's, which is clearly not the case). I think this one is primarily genetics. I understand what you're talking about in terms of genetics not being the sole determining factor in how we develop, but it's a pretty darn big one. Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 00:55:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G4tRHP027791 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:55:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G4qWOd012571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:52:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G4qUxY028072; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:52:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G4qRxY028047 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:52:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ar-007neomahp212.dialsprint.net ([63.178.246.124] helo=hppav.radiks.net) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ceHC-0006Sk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:52:26 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20030715234154.0449ad20@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:48:21 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200307151643.h6FGhfQ0022408@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: why not to release corsets quickly X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This from a SCA medic (as told to me): And you must NEVER release the corset in any way if a person is choking. Do the Heimlich with the corset in place. Yes, it's really hard. If you loosen (or worse, cut) the corset, there is a sharp intake of breath - which pushes the object they're choking on even deeper. Sandy >Subject: [h-cost] Re: why not to release corsets quickly > >BTW, for anyone who works at a ren-faire... if you don't *know* that the >EMTs or whoever is providing First Aid at your event has worked at faire >before and *knows* about corsets and what happens if they're released >too quickly, it's not a bad idea to let them know. > >There is an exception, BTW. If someone is in an extreme heat emergency >and/or is having extreme difficulty in breathing and the corset/bodice >cannot be released easily... then the other situation needs to take >priority over the risk of the quick release... or so I've been told... >I'd double check before you pass *that* part on. > >YMMV. > >-Elisabeth "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly-- Why They Are Simply Doomed." Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 01:11:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G5BmHP027839 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:11:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G53JOd013569 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:03:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G53IEd003321; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:03:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G53GEe003296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:03:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6G53hbh028642 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:03:43 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6G53h4m028640 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:03:43 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: pirates of the caribbean Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:03:43 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <149495193.20030714124843@ix.netcom.com> <3F14CD88.5050205@dandy.net> In-Reply-To: <3F14CD88.5050205@dandy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307160103.43385.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 15 July 2003 11:59 pm, michael tartaglio wrote: > Hi, All. Just to add a little more fuel to the fire, and then I'll > retire (as they used to say, start the fight and then offer to hold the > coats...). If the Lady was too tightly laced, then maybe she should > have directed her venom towards the cause of the problem..it seems that > the whole "joke" of the thing was directed toward the > not-so-knowledgeable (read "gullible" ) public who equate corsetting > with horrible deformities and some sort of male induced > bondage/punishment ritual. I agree with you (having just seen the movie tonight). Particularly since the young lady in question was clearly depicted as a healthy, vigorous girl, and no weakling or slave to fashion or convention. >If some of you did indeed gather something > else from the plotline, then perhaps there was more to the thing than > first attacked my senses. I am also partially offended because, as > usual, Hollywood has taken a legitimate historical period, with > legitimate historical documentation regarding the lives of some nautical > criminal elements, and made it "jolly good fun". I was more offended by the rank inconsistencies of behavior with setting. By the time they got *into* the plot, I was so incapable of suspending disbelief that I couldn't make myself care what happened. > It is very hard to do > any mid to late 17th Cent. or early 18th Cent. reenactment of any > military or nautical type without (especially after such a film) being > bombarded with people wanting their kids to have their pictures taken > with "the pirates", then not wanting to be provided with any real > information of any historical value. It maked the job harder for folks > actually reenacting "The Golden Age of Piracy", or almost any maritime > venture. And besides, I don't think I've ever seen a pirate with mascara > (though, if it helps them get through their day, I say, go for it) ;) I will say that Depp definitely did his best to get into the spirit of things. -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 01:27:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G5RFHP027900 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:27:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G5NmOd015201 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:23:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G5NlEd013053; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:23:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G5NgEd013006 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:23:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A15F74B0094; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:23:43 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A15F1BA019A; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:23:43 -0500 Message-ID: <021e01c34b5a$bf527d60$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:26:01 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Re: Average Height X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually for the past 25 years, girls have been getting taller in the U.S. It is attributed to better food and availability. Girls in general do the majority of their growing between the ages of 11-13. My youngest sister was 6' by 12 years old. According to our pediatrician, girls' body are maturing at a faster rate that 25 years ago. Most girls are starting their period now between the age of 11-13 y.o. This is also backed up with better nutrition. On the other hand, boys do the majority of their growing between 13-18. Most men will grow 1" in height between 18-21. I can't quote the source on this one. I learned it in my child development and nutrition classes in college... see that Home Ec. Ed did come in handy! I can tell you from teaching in a middle school, that there is a big difference in female's body maturity between a 6th and 8th grader. Comparing the 8th grade students that I taught last and then at 18 years old, they are still the same height and about the same body weight. The boys... some of them I don't even recognize. Their faces have changed to a more squared look, body shape, height, etc. The girls I always recognize right off the bat. The main thing that has changed is their fashions. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 01:40:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G5eWHP027932 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:40:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G5aCOd016175 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:36:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G5aAEd018796; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:36:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G5a3Ee018748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:36:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6G5aVbh029009 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:36:31 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6G5aMoe029007 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:36:22 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:36:22 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <021e01c34b5a$bf527d60$0400a8c0@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <021e01c34b5a$bf527d60$0400a8c0@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307160136.22252.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 16 July 2003 01:26 am, Penny Ladnier wrote: > Actually for the past 25 years, girls have been getting taller in the U.S. > It is attributed to better food and availability. Girls in general do the > majority of their growing between the ages of 11-13. My youngest sister > was 6' by 12 years old. According to our pediatrician, girls' body are > maturing at a faster rate that 25 years ago. Most girls are starting their > period now between the age of 11-13 y.o. This is also backed up with > better nutrition. > > On the other hand, boys do the majority of their growing between 13-18. > Most men will grow 1" in height between 18-21. And some men continue to grow even later. My father gained about 4 inches in height after 30. And my husband went from a size 38 to a size 42 suit after 30 (this is increased breadth across the shoulders, not an increase in waist size). -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 02:39:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G6dKHP000482 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:39:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G6ZtOd020811 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:35:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G6Zr3c018417; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:35:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G6Zo3c018400 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:35:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2477D90094; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:35:51 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A24731A0210; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:35:51 -0500 Message-ID: <027c01c34b64$d149e6c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <021e01c34b5a$bf527d60$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <200307160136.22252.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:38:07 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cathy, Men do gain a lot in chest size in their 20s and 30s. This is when their shoulders get broad. We have a photo taken of my 15 y.o. son on the platform for swimming. He was in position to dive. I was floored to see all the muscles in his upper body. Swimmers male and female generally have broader shoulders. My son and daughter have been competitive swimming for the past five years. My 11 y.o. daughter has swimmer's shoulders this year. Now I understand why women's competitive swim suits are cut the way they are. I was watching ESPN tonight with the women's water polo event. My goodness, these women's shoulder's were are broad as men's. Then I watched the synicized (sp) ladies swimming and men's diving. Their shoulders were not as large. I guess they don't have to do endurance swimming like lap swimming. To make this costume related... I was raised with a river in my front yard... so we swam every day. In my first round of college, I swam on the school's team. This turned into my interest in historic swim suits and why I have it on my website. See, I can make just about anything costume related. I am really interested in finding some documentation on when swimmer's started the trick of shaving all their body hair to increase speed. I was listening to an interview of one of the female 2000 Olympic gold medal swimmers. She said during the Olympics she shaved her body hair three times a day. Another fairly new trick during training is to wear pantyhose... to create drag. Even the men do this. So when they swim an event in competition, they will go faster without the hose. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 02:40:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G6eDHP000615 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:40:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G4xxOd013301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:59:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G4xwEd001915; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:59:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G4xtEd001897 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:59:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABCB99D0068; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:59:55 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABCB2950210; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:59:55 -0500 Message-ID: <01f201c34b57$6c6c9840$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] tall/short people Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:02:14 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I come from a very tall family. My Mom is 5' 10" and Dad was 6' 3". My brothers range in height from 6' 3" to 7'. My sister are from 5' 9" to 6' 2". All of use have very long necks, legs, feet, hands, and arms. All the girls wear size 12+ in shoes, and the boys 15+. I was 5' 11" before having back problems and married a man who is 6' 1". I think we saved all of my tall genes for son #2 who is 6' 7". All the rest of my boys range between 5' 10" to 6' 1"... what I think is short compared to my siblings. I got so used to looking up at guys around my brothers. Now, I can look eye to eye with most of my sons. I think people became really fascinated with tall people in the 1920s when the silhouette for women became very linear. There is documentation in the 1921 etiquette book that I have online about how tall women could wear anything and look good except for certain stripes. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 04:03:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G83ZHP010935 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 04:03:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G80JOd026574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:00:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G80HXP027446; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:00:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41503.mail.yahoo.com (web41503.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6G80FXP027390 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:00:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030716080010.24841.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41503.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:00:10 BST Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:00:10 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Extant clothing, was Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <004c01c34b48$68b7a460$59a14ed5@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Melanie Wilson wrote: > >I've also heard the theory that extant(?) garments/clothing were items > that > were for unusual shaped/sized people. And for whatever reason were not cut > down or remade > > I tend to believe extant garment were either special garments or those that > could not be cut down further, of course this is a generalisation. I agree Mel, just look a things like the Isham clothes and especially the wedding suit, which survived pristinely, because poor Sir Isham died two days before his wedding. Just talking of 17th c. clothes: This is why it is so difficult to find any examples of bogstandard every-day clothing, and that's why I love the findings of garments that were incorporated in houses. Then you may have bog finds, as well as extraordinarily preserved graves - some with clothing in some parts of the world, but rarely, because it was not the custom in that period to bury people in their clothes, but in a fine shroud, and so on. I wish I could find a whole set of English middling working class everyday clothes. :-) Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 04:13:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G8DrHP011859 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 04:13:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G8AvOd027164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:10:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G8AsXP002384; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:10:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G8AoXP002303 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:10:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-121-122.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.121.122]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFP41779; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:10:35 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <007701c34b72$580b5b00$7a794ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030716080010.24841.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Extant clothing, was Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I -how tall? Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:14:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Just talking of 17th c. clothes: This is why it is so difficult to find any examples of bogstandard every-day clothing, and that's why I love the findings of garments that were incorporated in houses. Oh yes have you read about the project detailing those ? Apparently builders are still really supersticious about them and rarely tell anyone ! > Then you may have bog finds, as well as extraordinarily preserved graves - some with clothing in some parts of the world, but rarely, because it was not the custom in that period to bury people in their clothes, but in a fine shroud, and so on. Yes it is so rare and often as in clothed graves (eg Pagan Anglo Saxons) we cannot be sure this was an everyday costume rather than a burial costume. >I wish I could find a whole set of English middling working class everyday clothes. :-) Dream on ;) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 04:45:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G8jPHP016293 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 04:45:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G8gNOd029075 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:42:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G8gLXP015892; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:42:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G8gHXP015848 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:42:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AFE9B140068; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 03:42:17 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AFEA307019A; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 03:42:18 -0500 Message-ID: <005201c34b76$6e68ec60$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 04:44:12 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] OT: Thank you!!!!! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know this is off-topic but we wanted to thank everyone! Many people on h-costume supported the project. You are angels! Several of you adopted critters for my son, Patrick's Eagle Scout project a few months ago. The critters went to the children cancer patients at the Medical College of Virginia's Research Hospital (MCV) in Richmond, Virginia. Patrick wanted to have something for the children to cuddle while they were in pain and going through treatments. Individuals, businesses, and college clubs sent donations of $10 per critter to purchase the kit to make the critters. Patrick directed his Boy Scout troop in assembling and stuffing the animals. Each critter has a story book with a place for a guardian angel's name to be written. Several people wanted the children's guardian angels to be former scouts, friends or relatives who have had cancer, or just themselves. We are very pleased to announce that Patrick delivered 62 critters on June 25 to the MCV's Director of Volunteers. She said, "This is such a great gift to the children. The children have been asking us for a stuffed animal for weeks and we had run out of them. This will make many children happy." You can see photos at Pat with all the critters: http://www.costumegallery.com/Pat/EagleScout/Project/critters.jpg http://www.costumegallery.com/Pat/EagleScout/Project/critters2.jpg Pat delivering the critters to the Director of Volunteer Services at MCV: http://www.costumegallery.com/Pat/EagleScout/Project/critters3.jpg The trash bag to Pat's right is full of critters. He delivered three bags full of critters. Many, many thanks to the people with kind hearts who helped with Patrick's Eagle Scout Project. Thank you to those who sent letters of support! He is in the process of submitting his final paperwork and his final Board of Review for Eagle Scout. Hopefully by September, Patrick will receive his final approval to be an Eagle Scout. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 04:55:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G8tbHP017351 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 04:55:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G8qVOd029690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:52:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G8qTXP020395; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:52:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G8qQXP020368 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:52:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h6G8qOp16827.; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:52:24 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:52:24 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:51:48 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Re: average height Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail wrote: Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> No one has said it, so I thought I'd remind anyone thinking about the average height of European populations that during the times that the average size was smaller than ours, there would still be a range similar to ours. In other words, there WERE tall people. Just not as many of them. >>> That is what I meant to imply in my earlier comment. The fact that Lalah is tall despite having had childhood illnesses doesn't disprove the theory that immunisation may be a factor in the *average* height of today's young people being greater. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 05:41:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G9fEHP001384 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 05:41:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G9bvOd004269 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 03:37:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G9btqs009149; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 03:37:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta1-svc.business.ntl.com (mta1-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G9bpqs009111 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 03:37:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Imedia5043 ([80.1.18.75]) by mta1-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20030716093750.RNDT24453.mta1-svc.business.ntl.com@Imedia5043> for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:37:50 +0100 Message-ID: <00b301c34b7d$e5fb6940$4b120150@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" References: <021e01c34b5a$bf527d60$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <200307160136.22252.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:37:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I suspect this has a lot to do with hormones in food as much as anything else several of my friends daughters have started theirs by the age of 10 Dawn Ages Of Elegance makers of Historical reproduction Clothing, Uniforms and Bridalwear http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 , girls' body are > > maturing at a faster rate that 25 years ago. Most girls are starting their > > period now between the age of 11-13 y.o. This is also backed up with > > better nutrition. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 05:45:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G9jRHP003197 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 05:45:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G9gCOd004555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 03:42:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G9gBqs010964; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 03:42:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G9g8qs010912 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 03:42:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CD96BE873 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:42:02 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F151EB7.8070100@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:45:27 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Corset of Dorothea Sabina 1598 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I am working on a corset from the pattern of the corset of Dorothea Sabina from the book Patterns of fashion of Janet Arnold. The corset fits me suprisingly well. But I had to enlarge the pattern an extra 40%, she was very tiny. I made the corset out of two layers of linnen and used reeds as boning. The corset is very comfortable and gives a nice smooth line. It is not completely finished but you can see some pictures here. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Bluedress/Bluedress.html Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 05:46:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G9kYHP003941 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 05:46:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G9hIOd004658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 03:43:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G9hHqs011508; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 03:43:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G9hFqs011479 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 03:43:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-39-24.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.39.24]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6G9gus2022788 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030716012403.00e48de0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:24:17 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Ripping corsets? In-Reply-To: <20030715.081014.816.0.Cley@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Doesn't that sort of problem mean it was laced too tightly in the first >place? Not necessarily. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 07:52:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GBptHP032350 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:52:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GBmgOd013260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 05:48:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GBmeTw007548; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 05:48:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from david.io.com (root@david.io.com [199.170.88.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GBmbTw007525 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 05:48:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 5qurt (aus-as2-117.io.com [199.170.89.117]) by david.io.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6GBmOZ12498 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:48:31 -0500 From: "Amanda Reeves" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1940s House Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:48:58 -0500 Message-ID: <002401c34b90$475d8170$7559aac7@5qurt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We live in a house built in the '20s. After 25 years of the former owners covering all the history with thick paints, we're trying to get it back, as close as we can, to it's original state. I've never hot gunned so much thick paint in my life!!! I've always been a '40's body. I even look just like my grandmother and would give anything to have all those dresses she wore! In the '70s when it was cool to dress "in costume" I wore a lot of '40s style clothing - with my jeans...you remember? GRITS Rule Girls Raised In The South -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Jean Waddie Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 4:50 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: Lalah T Tillinghast Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1940s House Linda Krecker-Schkred wrote >I still live in a home from the 40's. This house was built by my >in-Laws. The floors are still the same. No additions have been made.The >kitchen and bathroom are still the same. Talk about the epitome of >inefficiency. But I do love the clothes from that period. Only my body >type wasn't built for that decade. I'm better suited for the 20's. > >What about the rest of you. What is your best time period per your body >type? > >Linda K-S > Used to be 20s or 60s - slim and boyish - but getting more 50s every year :-( Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 08:56:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GCugHP032472 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:56:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GCrbOd017493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:53:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GCra2h006658; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:53:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GCrT2h006593 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:53:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p880-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.195.118] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19clmg-0001Sm-00; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:53:27 +1200 Message-ID: <002c01c34b99$3c905fc0$76c3adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F151EB7.8070100@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset of Dorothea Sabina 1598 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:53:20 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I made the corset out of two layers of linnen and used reeds as boning. > The corset is very comfortable and gives a nice smooth line. > It is not completely finished but you can see some pictures here. > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Bluedress/Bluedress.html Looking good:) Can't wait to see the whole thing:) Actually I'm thinking I might make this corset myself, actually use the whole outfit as patterned for an outfit I'm planning on making. I just got a relook at the book last night and realised it would just need some tweaking for a project I'm planing on. Of course I'm a totally different shape to her and you so it'll require some fiddling. Actually there was a nice surprise at the back of the book. Ther eis a petticoat skirt thing made from straight widths of fabric. That was really very interesting as the rest are all shaped even slightly (ie even the closest to the idea were a few widths sewn together then the sides shpaed and the hem too). It reminded me a lot of the skirts of the 1840s where the hem was all one level and all the adjusting for height was done at the waist. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com still focused at the start of the 16thC still, and with all the wonderful allegorical paintings am likely to stay there for some time.. besides this one project;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 09:01:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GD1AHP032493 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:01:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GCw5Od017849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:58:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GCw5xS008636; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:58:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GCw2xS008614 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:58:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail22.ureach.com (mail22.ureach.com [172.16.2.82]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA24889 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:58:02 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-200-213.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.213]) by mail22.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA05586 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:58:02 -0400 Message-ID: <006c01c34b99$54e948c0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030716034255.28492.qmail@web11407.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval pins Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:54:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually they do have some "adult" pilgrim badges in a specially marked area. But they are period, believe it or not. And I really miss living in San Francisco (but not for that reason!). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Brainard" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval pins > fettered cock? sounds more like an associate of Mr.S (well known > leather shop in the Castro--I'm sure Heather lives across the street or > something) > > J. > > > --- Beteena Paradise wrote: > > Someone was asking about vendors for medieval pins. Fettered Cock > > Pewters > > sells two styles. One is a quatrefoil and the other is an acorn. They > > are at > > the bottom of this page: > > > > http://www.fetteredcockpewters.com/page_various_sundry.htm > > > > Teena > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 09:19:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GDJsHP032541 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:19:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GDGsOd019325 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:16:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GDGrxS018874; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:16:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GDGnxS018837 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:16:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h6GDGmp10943.; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:16:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:16:47 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:16:23 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Doublets-n-kirtles-n-skirts, oh my! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a question for those ladies who say they always stitch their bodices to their "skirts". How do you get into the resulting combination? Does it assume that both garments open at the back? I do 1630s/40s, and as these styles are somewhat high-waisted it would be handy to have the two parts attached, so as to avoid gaps. However, I normally make my bodices front-opening (for convenience) and skirts opening at the right side (for easy access to a tied-on pocket underneath). I have used hooks in the past, but that means a further complication to an outfit that's already slow and laborious to put on. Comments, anyone? Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 09:22:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GDMiHP032566 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:22:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GDJjOd019554 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:19:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GDJixS020480; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:19:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web9406.mail.yahoo.com (web9406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6GDJgxS020458 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:19:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030716131942.26062.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.239.171] by web9406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:19:42 PDT Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:19:42 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset of Dorothea Sabina 1598 To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F151EB7.8070100@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Deredere-----very nice progress that you are aking! The corste looks very nice.I was also very interested in the 'testers' for the embroidery bits.Is that gold bullion you are using? Albra Deredere Galbraith wrote: Hi, I am working on a corset from the pattern of the corset of Dorothea Sabina from the book Patterns of fashion of Janet Arnold. The corset fits me suprisingly well. But I had to enlarge the pattern an extra 40%, she was very tiny. I made the corset out of two layers of linnen and used reeds as boning. The corset is very comfortable and gives a nice smooth line. It is not completely finished but you can see some pictures here. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Bluedress/Bluedress.html Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 09:52:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GDpvHP032728 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:52:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GDmgOd021857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:48:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GDmfxS006027; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:48:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GDmdxS005990 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:48:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7871BE8A9 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:48:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F15587E.5000908@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:51:58 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset of Dorothea Sabina 1598 References: <20030716131942.26062.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, It is just brass wire :-) KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: >Hi Deredere-----very nice progress that you are aking! The corste looks very nice.I was also very interested in the 'testers' for the embroidery bits.Is that gold bullion you are using? >Albra > >Deredere Galbraith wrote: >Hi, > >I am working on a corset from the pattern of the corset of Dorothea >Sabina from the book Patterns of fashion of Janet Arnold. >The corset fits me suprisingly well. But I had to enlarge the pattern an >extra 40%, she was very tiny. >I made the corset out of two layers of linnen and used reeds as boning. >The corset is very comfortable and gives a nice smooth line. >It is not completely finished but you can see some pictures here. >http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Bluedress/Bluedress.html > >Greetings, >Deredere > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 09:55:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GDtEHP032736 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:55:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GDq2Od022158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GDq1xS008018; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GDpvxS007916 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:51:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200307161351.h6GDpvxS007916@net.indra.com> Received: from rwcrwbc09 (unknown[204.127.197.119](misconfigured sender)) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20030716135151015006pu16e>; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:51:51 +0000 Received: from [198.178.8.81] by rwcrwbc09; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:51:48 +0000 From: eirenetz@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval pins Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:51:48 +0000 X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jun 26 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWlyZW5ldHpAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Any idea how to get hold of Fettered Cock? The e-mail contact has bounced since the beginning of June. I've got a list of things I want to purchase from them, but until I can make contact... Eirene > > --- Beteena Paradise wrote: > > > Someone was asking about vendors for medieval pins. Fettered Cock > > > Pewters > > > sells two styles. One is a quatrefoil and the other is an acorn. They > > > are at > > > the bottom of this page: > > > > > > http://www.fetteredcockpewters.com/page_various_sundry.htm > > > > > > Teena > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 10:14:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEDnHP000312 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:14:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GE5ZOd023589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:05:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GE5XlY016311; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:05:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web9405.mail.yahoo.com (web9405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6GE5UlY016281 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:05:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030716140530.74649.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.239.171] by web9405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:05:30 PDT Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:05:30 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset of Dorothea Sabina 1598 To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F15587E.5000908@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Whooo---brass will probably tarnish---have you thought of using gold bullion? That would be absolutely stunning, if you did! Albra Deredere Galbraith wrote: Hi, It is just brass wire :-) KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: >Hi Deredere-----very nice progress that you are aking! The corste looks very nice.I was also very interested in the 'testers' for the embroidery bits.Is that gold bullion you are using? >Albra > >Deredere Galbraith wrote: >Hi, > >I am working on a corset from the pattern of the corset of Dorothea >Sabina from the book Patterns of fashion of Janet Arnold. >The corset fits me suprisingly well. But I had to enlarge the pattern an >extra 40%, she was very tiny. >I made the corset out of two layers of linnen and used reeds as boning. >The corset is very comfortable and gives a nice smooth line. >It is not completely finished but you can see some pictures here. >http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Bluedress/Bluedress.html > >Greetings, >Deredere > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 10:20:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEKhHP000339 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:20:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEHlOd024788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:17:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEHklY023873; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:17:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEHhlY023802 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:17:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a231.in-tch.com [66.62.107.31]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6GDwRL17957 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:58:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F155EF1.C4F62EB4@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:19:29 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset of Dorothea Sabina 1598 References: <3F151EB7.8070100@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey! It looks really good! What will you be using for the busk point? --sue, having fun romping around in other centuries.... Deredere Galbraith wrote: > > Hi, > > I am working on a corset from the pattern of the corset of Dorothea > Sabina from the book Patterns of fashion of Janet Arnold. > The corset fits me suprisingly well. But I had to enlarge the pattern an > extra 40%, she was very tiny. > I made the corset out of two layers of linnen and used reeds as boning. > The corset is very comfortable and gives a nice smooth line. > It is not completely finished but you can see some pictures here. > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Bluedress/Bluedress.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 10:33:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEXIHP000369 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:33:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEU4Od025950 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:30:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEU2lY002105; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:30:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GETxlY002065 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:30:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A1662904DE; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:29:58 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Corset of Dorothea Sabina 1598 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:29:58 -0500 Message-ID: <000401c34ba6$bc0367e0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <20030716140530.74649.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is also a substance known as "gold-filled" wire- many jewelers use it for wire-wrap jewelry styles. It's much nicer than the "Gold-plated" and much cheaper than solid gold, even 9 or 10 carat. Try a Google search for "wire wrap jewelry supplies" or similar, that should keep you busy for a while! Hoping to help- Betsy (FYI- 9 carat-that is 9 out of 24 parts of the alloy is gold and the rest is not- copper, silver, zinc, nickel mixtures are used depending on the final utilization of the metal. 10 carat is the least purity of gold alloy that can be advertised in the US as "Gold" jewelry, IIRC! 12 carat is half gold and 24 is pure gold- not often seen in Jewelry as it is TOO soft to stand up to daily wear and tear, 22 carat is popular as an investment grade piece, 18 is prevalent at Fine Jewelers, and 14 carat is what you'll mostly find at the retail chain/mall stores-) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of KATHRYN WOLTERS Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 9:06 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset of Dorothea Sabina 1598 Whooo---brass will probably tarnish---have you thought of using gold bullion? That would be absolutely stunning, if you did! Albra Deredere Galbraith wrote: Hi, It is just brass wire :-) KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: >Hi Deredere-----very nice progress that you are aking! The corste looks very nice.I was also very interested in the 'testers' for the embroidery bits.Is that gold bullion you are using? >Albra > >Deredere Galbraith wrote: >Hi, > >I am working on a corset from the pattern of the corset of Dorothea >Sabina from the book Patterns of fashion of Janet Arnold. >The corset fits me suprisingly well. But I had to enlarge the pattern an >extra 40%, she was very tiny. >I made the corset out of two layers of linnen and used reeds as boning. >The corset is very comfortable and gives a nice smooth line. >It is not completely finished but you can see some pictures here. >http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Bluedress/Bluedress.html > >Greetings, >Deredere > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 10:38:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEcRHP000377 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:38:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEZCOd026341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:35:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEZAlY005070; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:35:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6GEZ7lY005045 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:35:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-118-212-74.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@67.118.212.74 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2003 14:35:07 -0000 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:34:47 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <021e01c34b5a$bf527d60$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday, July 15, 2003, at 10:26 PM, Penny Ladnier wrote: > Actually for the past 25 years, girls have been getting taller in the > U.S. > It is attributed to better food and availability. Girls in general do > the > majority of their growing between the ages of 11-13. My youngest > sister was > 6' by 12 years old. According to our pediatrician, girls' body are > maturing > at a faster rate that 25 years ago. Most girls are starting their > period > now between the age of 11-13 y.o. This is also backed up with better > nutrition. Actually, Americans have overall pretty poor nutrition, except that it's in overconsumption of rich foods, rather than underconsumption in general. I haven't studied nutrition all that much, but I do know that at least some of this business of girls maturing younger than previously is in some part due to a diet that includes a lot of "estrogenizing" highly fatty foods. And I think the 11-13 age of onset of menses is really younger now. There are quite a few 8 year old girls out there starting their periods, a phenomenon particularly found in African American girls (I'm not sure why, but I remember reading about it in Discover a couple years back). In my generation (born in the mid-70's), girls were starting their periods around 12-15 years old. My fiance was telling me that at the school where he was teaching last year it wasn't odd to see third grade girls starting their periods. Obligatory costume content? Uhhh... ;) Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 10:41:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEeqHP000385 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:41:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEbWOd026607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:37:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEbUlY006451; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:37:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEbPlY006351 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:37:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 262D5BE726 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:37:20 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F1563ED.5000607@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:40:45 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset of Dorothea Sabina 1598 References: <000401c34ba6$bc0367e0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sounds interesting. The gold bullion is expensive and I am looking for cheeper options Greetings, Deredere Betsy Marshall wrote: >There is also a substance known as "gold-filled" wire- many jewelers use >it for wire-wrap jewelry styles. It's much nicer than the "Gold-plated" >and much cheaper than solid gold, even 9 or 10 carat. > >Try a Google search for "wire wrap jewelry supplies" or similar, that >should keep you busy for a while! > >Hoping to help- Betsy > >(FYI- 9 carat-that is 9 out of 24 parts of the alloy is gold and the >rest is not- copper, silver, zinc, nickel mixtures are used depending on >the final utilization of the metal. 10 carat is the least purity of gold >alloy that can be advertised in the US as "Gold" jewelry, IIRC! 12 carat >is half gold and 24 is pure gold- not often seen in Jewelry as it is TOO >soft to stand up to daily wear and tear, 22 carat is popular as an >investment grade piece, 18 is prevalent at Fine Jewelers, and 14 carat >is what you'll mostly find at the retail chain/mall stores-very broad strokes here, please nobody get offended by my >over-generalizations!>) > >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] >On Behalf Of KATHRYN WOLTERS >Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 9:06 AM >To: Historical Costume >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset of Dorothea Sabina 1598 > >Whooo---brass will probably tarnish---have you thought of using gold >bullion? That would be absolutely stunning, if you did! >Albra > >Deredere Galbraith wrote: >Hi, > >It is just brass wire :-) > >KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: > > > >>Hi Deredere-----very nice progress that you are aking! The corste looks >> >> >very nice.I was also very interested in the 'testers' for the embroidery >bits.Is that gold bullion you are using? > > >>Albra >> >>Deredere Galbraith wrote: >>Hi, >> >>I am working on a corset from the pattern of the corset of Dorothea >>Sabina from the book Patterns of fashion of Janet Arnold. >>The corset fits me suprisingly well. But I had to enlarge the pattern >> >> >an > > >>extra 40%, she was very tiny. >>I made the corset out of two layers of linnen and used reeds as boning. >>The corset is very comfortable and gives a nice smooth line. >>It is not completely finished but you can see some pictures here. >>http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Bluedress/Bluedress.html >> >>Greetings, >>Deredere >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >>--------------------------------- >>Do you Yahoo!? >>SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> >> >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 10:49:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEncHP000417 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:49:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEkaOd027519 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:46:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEkYlY012560; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:46:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEkUlY012457 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:46:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86C17BE8BA for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:46:25 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F15660F.5010101@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:49:51 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset of Dorothea Sabina 1598 References: <3F151EB7.8070100@kabelfoon.nl> <3F155EF1.C4F62EB4@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I don't know yet. I am not even sure I am going to put a busk in the corset. The strange thing is, is that Janet Arnold sayd that there was a busk but doesn't say how you are supposed to put it in the corset. And it is working well witout the busk. Would the busk be sewn in to the corset or should it be easy to remove it from the coset?? What I heard is that the busk normally was put in a poket and then tied to the corset on the top so it wouldn't come out. Here there are no lacingholes at the top of the corset. There are holes at the end of the point, but they are to close to the edge to work. Mmmm... it is hot and my brains aren't working very wel ;-) Greetings, Deredere Sue Clemenger wrote: >Hey! It looks really good! >What will you be using for the busk point? >--sue, having fun romping around in other centuries.... > >Deredere Galbraith wrote: > > >>Hi, >> >>I am working on a corset from the pattern of the corset of Dorothea >>Sabina from the book Patterns of fashion of Janet Arnold. >>The corset fits me suprisingly well. But I had to enlarge the pattern an >>extra 40%, she was very tiny. >>I made the corset out of two layers of linnen and used reeds as boning. >>The corset is very comfortable and gives a nice smooth line. >>It is not completely finished but you can see some pictures here. >>http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Bluedress/Bluedress.html >> >> >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 10:57:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEvVHP000478 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:57:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEsLOd028314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:54:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEsJlY017743; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:54:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GEsFlY017708 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:54:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail20.ureach.com (mail20.ureach.com [172.16.2.80]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04894 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:54:15 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-200-213.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.213]) by mail20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA04890 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:54:15 -0400 Message-ID: <001a01c34ba9$910424f0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307161351.h6GDpvxS007916@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval pins Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:50:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I asked them a question once and the response came from this email. Maybe try it? kes@fetteredcockpewters.com Good luck! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval pins > Any idea how to get hold of Fettered Cock? The e-mail contact has bounced since > the beginning of June. I've got a list of things I want to purchase from them, > but until I can make contact... > > Eirene > > > > --- Beteena Paradise wrote: > > > > Someone was asking about vendors for medieval pins. Fettered Cock > > > > Pewters > > > > sells two styles. One is a quatrefoil and the other is an acorn. They > > > > are at > > > > the bottom of this page: > > > > > > > > http://www.fetteredcockpewters.com/page_various_sundry.htm > > > > > > > > Teena > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > h-costume mailing list > > > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > > > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 11:45:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GFjHHP000616 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:45:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GFelOd004010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:40:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GFedAu024306; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:40:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GFeWAu024197 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:40:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19coOM-00053l-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:40:32 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Corset of Dorothea Sabina 1598 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:40:28 -0700 Message-ID: <000701c34bb0$985ced20$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3F15660F.5010101@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6GFeWAu024197 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here there are no lacingholes at the top of the corset. There are holes at the end of the point, but they are to close to the edge to work. [Sg] Maybe it tied at the bottom? Yours looks great! Aren't they comfortable? Mine is. I just boned the center part of mine, and it gives me the shape I wanted perfectly. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 12:07:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GG71HP000674 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:07:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GG2UOd006603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:02:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GG2SgL010883; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:02:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6GG2NgL010824 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:02:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-118-212-74.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@67.118.212.74 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2003 16:02:20 -0000 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:02:00 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset of Dorothea Sabina 1598 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <000701c34bb0$985ced20$6401a8c0@SG01> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Deja vu. We just had a discussion of this on another list only a few days ago. Someone mentioned that the lacing holes on the corset match with a set of eyelets on the point of the doublet and theorized that they might have been pointed together. This brought up a good question as to how the corset might have been worn (ie. under the doublet, but over the skirts, etc). So far no one has offered a good argument either way, but it is curious that the eyelets on the corset that are supposedly for a busk match up with a set on the doublet and Janet Arnold managed to overlook it. Sarah On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 08:40 AM, Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > Here there are no lacingholes at the top of the corset. There are holes > at the end of the point, but they are to close to the edge to work. > > > [Sg] Maybe it tied at the bottom? Yours looks great! Aren't they > comfortable? Mine is. I just boned the center part of mine, and it > gives me > the shape I wanted perfectly. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 12:51:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GGpVHP000845 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:51:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GGm3Od011925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:48:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GGm2gL018610; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GGlwgL018511 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:47:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1d8.df9d683 (3890) for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:47:45 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <1d8.df9d683.2c46dbb1@aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:47:45 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset of Dorothea Sabina 1598 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/16/2003 11:03:01 AM Central Standard Time, sarah@elizabethanlady.com writes: > but it is curious that the eyelets on the corset that are > supposedly for a busk match up with a set on the doublet and Janet > Arnold managed to overlook it. > Hell, Janet Arnold managed to overlook that the length of Alcega's farthingale matched the length of every kirtle skirt in the whole book...she assumed that it was so long because of the tucks...but all the skirts are 49.5 inches long. Go figure. -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 13:04:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GH4GHP000888 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:04:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GH15Od013856 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:01:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GH13Uo000404; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:01:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GH0xUo000354 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:01:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (adsl-67-124-118-50.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [67.124.118.50])h6GH0qe3013156 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:00:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030716095009.00b300c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:58:21 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pirates Costume Question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:46 PM 7/15/2003 +0000, Jessica wrote: >Yes, I think you may be right. Confused costumer and creative license >probably had a huge part in this decision. I guess if you are the type of >person who is of the adament belief that the corset is uncomfortable you >might not have enough foresight to realize that that lacing on the shift's >sleeves is going to be even more uncomfortable then the corset. I just >kept thinking about her dress sleeves pushing that lacing into her flesh >and every time she would move her arm, skin would get pinched in between >the loose lacing. I have to wonder about people that don't realize that >value of comfort. > >Anyway... until I'm making costumes for big movies... I'll just have to >be satisfied with watching and thinking about the why's. If Disney exerts the same control over the "look" of films with their own name (as opposed to Touchstone or Buena Vista) as they do with other forms of media, then the "why" is that the costumer was told by the Disney people that it will have a look that goes with the ride at the theme park, be tasteful, and not offend *anybody.* Disney exerts tremendous power over people doing design work for them, so that everything that is connected with their name has that "Disney" look. They produce big design guideline books, and usually have final approval on everything, so the final authority for the costume designs was not the designer, the director, or the producer: it was somebody sitting in an office in Burbank that works for the corporation. Not exactly the most creative atmosphere, but it guarantees that if it says "Disney" on it, it will be wholesome family entertainment with a certain look. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 13:18:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GHIoHP000926 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:18:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GHFmOd015838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:15:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GHFdUo013315; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:15:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GHFFUo012920 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:15:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (adsl-67-124-118-50.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [67.124.118.50])h6GHF0e3020951 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:15:03 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030716100559.00b59688@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:12:34 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Doublets-n-kirtles-n-skirts, oh my! In-Reply-To: <166.23374654.2c4596aa@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:40 PM 7/15/2003 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 7/15/2003 12:10:42 PM Central Standard Time, >kat@grendal.rain.com writes: > > > Are you saying that despite that, and despite the existance of extant > > separate doublets, that they would have sewn/tacked them together > > always? > > > >Drea pointed out that doublets and high bodied gowns aren't exactly the same >thing. Anything that says "gown" is most likely sewn together. Kirtles >generally have bodices. The kirtles in Alcega are meant to be sewn >together, the only >mention of a waist band is for the circular skirts, which are basically >petticoats to be worn under the outer garments for warmth and to fluff >them out. >Most of the skirts in PoF have a distinct slant to the CF which implies >they are >shaped to the bodice point in the front. One skirt even has the jig-jag >look of pleats cut to meet the bottom of the bodice. With the exception of >doublets and jerkins, it makes very little sense to make a bodice and skirt >seperately (if you're tacking them together, then they are now a gown and one >garment). Every single person I know who's ever made a bodice AND skirt >outfit, had to >put hooks along the waistband of the skirt and the bottom of the bodice to >make it look right. Why bother with that? And now you know of at least 1 person who didn't have to. Me. Admittedly, it's been a number of years since I built an English Elizabethan (I'm doing different times/styles now), but I've never had to put hooks at the waistband, simply because I cut the bodice about 1/2" longer. Once it's finished, it's long enough that it is slightly longer than the length to the bottom of the waistband, and is on the skirt material (just a tiny bit!) itself. As I'm a firm believer in, "If it moves, flat-line it; if it still moves, bone it!", I've always lightly boned my bodices with 1/4" flat steels. The bodice stays put. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 13:19:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GHJUHP000932 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:19:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GHGUOd015937 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:16:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GHGQUo014038; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:16:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GHFmUo013385 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:15:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 286DDBE8DE for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:15:43 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F15890C.2060209@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:19:08 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset of Dorothea Sabina 1598 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I love her books but no one is without mistakes. There is a small mistake in the corset pattern. The piece of strap wich has an angle at one side schould be pointing towards the neck. When I saw the original corset I forgot to look at many things. I realised that when I was working on the corset. I wonder how close she could examen the dress and if the corset was there to. The dress is in the museum but the corset is in the archieves... Greetings, Deredere Sarah wrote: > Deja vu. We just had a discussion of this on another list only a few > days ago. Someone mentioned that the lacing holes on the corset match > with a set of eyelets on the point of the doublet and theorized that > they might have been pointed together. This brought up a good > question as to how the corset might have been worn (ie. under the > doublet, but over the skirts, etc). So far no one has offered a good > argument either way, but it is curious that the eyelets on the corset > that are supposedly for a busk match up with a set on the doublet and > Janet Arnold managed to overlook it. > > Sarah > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 14:02:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GI2DHP001020 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:02:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GHwvOd021187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:58:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GHwr6w019297; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:58:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GHwo6w019158 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:58:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.7a.4433aeba (4012) for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:58:29 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <7a.4433aeba.2c46ec45@aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:58:29 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Kilt pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Howdy folks, I have been asked to make a kilt by several people. Apparently there is some party or some event coming up that has to do with clans and kilts and such. I only know enough about kilts to be dangerous. I do know if I make one I want it to be reasonably right. Nine yards is just too much, however. Is there an expectable pattern that would not make a Scott gag? I know one of the guys will be wearing the linen, late 18th/early 19th century shirt I made him. Is there a pattern from this period that is not so full and more controlled than a belt holding pleats? No one seems to want a jacket of any kind [damn!]....it is not a formal event. How about sporrans? [something that "saves" a kilt, IMHO. It kills the Catholic school girl image.....that and a long red beard.] Help me make the guys look good and not clueless! No one wants "Brigadoon"! Albert "If it's not Scottish....IT'S CRAP!" Cat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 14:25:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GIPLHP001084 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:25:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GIMOOd024290 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:22:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GIMH6w008626; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:22:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GIM76w008417 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:22:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-120-133.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.120.133]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFW98144; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:22:04 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <007901c34bc7$c5d8ca00$85784ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7a.4433aeba.2c46ec45@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kilt pattern Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:26:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Nine yards is just too much, however. You could try less 4-5 metres. wee kilts really need very heavy wool to work >How about sporrans I have some sporrans what is your budget ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 15:04:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GJ45HP001232 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:04:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GIvjPt028609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:00:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GINS6w009716; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:23:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GINI6w009539 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:23:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-127-204.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.127.204]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6GING94017371 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:23:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030716111401.05551790@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:14:36 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pirates Costume Question In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030716095009.00b300c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Not exactly the most creative atmosphere, but it guarantees that if it >says "Disney" on it, it will be wholesome family entertainment with a >certain look. And suitable to bring your kids to go see. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 15:11:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GJB0HP001250 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:11:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GJ7wOd000188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:07:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GJ7oaX016795; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:07:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay2-f106.bay2.hotmail.com [65.54.247.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GJ7faX016526 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:07:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:07:35 -0700 Received: from 140.161.57.38 by by2fd.bay2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:07:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [140.161.57.38] X-Originating-Email: [moefen@hotmail.com] From: "" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:07:35 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jul 2003 19:07:35.0904 (UTC) FILETIME=[84736600:01C34BCD] Subject: [h-cost] Pirates of the Caribbean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If Disney exerts the same control over the "look" of films with their own name (as opposed to Touchstone or Buena Vista) as they do with other forms of media, then the "why" is that the costumer was told by the Disney people that it will have a look that goes with the ride at the theme park, be tasteful, and not offend *anybody.* Disney exerts tremendous power over people doing design work for them, so that everything that is connected with their name has that "Disney" look. They produce big design guideline books, and usually have final approval on everything, so the final authority for the costume designs was not the designer, the director, or the producer: it was somebody sitting in an office in Burbank that works for the corporation. Not exactly the most creative atmosphere, but it guarantees that if it says "Disney" on it, it will be wholesome family entertainment with a certain look. Of course Disney exerts huge control over their movies, and costumes are just one area that fall under their creative control. A costume designer on a film rarely ever works autonomously, with complete artistic freedom. Most of the time, costume design is part of a collaborative effort, and especially on a major feature, it has to fit into the director's idea, and the producer's idea, as well as the production designer's idea of the film. In this case they are adapting a film from a very popular ride. No doubt there are rabid fans of the Pirates of the Caribbean ride. Disney probably wants to keep those fans very happy, in the same way that the Lord of the Rings movie could not radically redesign the whole story. The fans would not put up with it. And yes, this is pure, escapist fantasy. No doubt the costumes give the fantastical impression of pirates and wenches. It doesn't reflect the reality of costumes of the time... or hygiene ... or class structure ... or any reality. Back to lurking, great list everyone! Moira _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 15:19:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GJJgHP001280 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:19:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GJA9Q3000536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:16:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GJ2raX012569; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:02:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GJ2ZaX012220 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:02:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fbf.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.191]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1CC085EE102 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:02:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001301c34bcd$1844b240$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:04:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-DCC-MessageCare-Metrics: net.indra.com 1108; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Subject: [h-cost] Carako Jacket? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi.......... First i want to thanks all those of you who helped me so generously with informations and tips about Carako Jackets. I have ben very buisy sewing: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/caraco_jacket.htm Well not entirely, but today i was on a lovely trip, biking to Jegersborg Dyrehave, where i visited Eremitage Slottet. Eremitage Castle, wich is not like the real Heremitage at Sct. Petersburg, but only a small hunting castle in the woods. The deers there, are quite tame, and not afraid of people, so you can pass them without them notice you, quite wonderfull. Otherwise, i am afraid i have to go back to my work tomorrow, and then i only have the evenings and 3 days next week, to finish this outfit. I have a hat to make, and a blue cartridge pleated skirt. Luckily a skirt is not complicated to make.................. Thanks for your help, and sorry i have ben much two buisy to stay long on the list.......... Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 15:26:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GJQAHP001332 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:26:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GJIFOd001546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:18:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GJIAaX026625; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:18:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80403.mail.yahoo.com (web80403.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.58]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6GJI2aX026396 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:18:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030716191757.78961.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.124.118.50] by web80403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:17:57 PDT Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:17:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030716111401.05551790@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Need quick 1920s underpinning help X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm trying to find (quickly!) an all-in-one body shaper that will minimize the bust to wear under a (copy) 1928 tea frock. It seems that that was the solution for the "woman with the generous figure trying to achieve the desired boyish look called for by modish fashions," (1927 Sears catalog), but most of the ones I've seen recently don't minimize the bust. Any ideas on where to look? Thanks! Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 16:08:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GK8nHP001430 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:08:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GJtJOd006090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:55:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GJtHJU027399; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:55:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GJtAJU027194 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:55:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from COMPUTER (pcp01721530pcs.union01.nj.comcast.net[68.37.30.129](untrusted sender)) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003071619535601100ituh6e>; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:53:56 +0000 Message-ID: <001e01c34bd3$fcbd8f90$811e2544@COMPUTER> From: "Valerie Frank" To: Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:53:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Kilt X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h6GK8nHP001430 Status: RO I think Folkwear Patterns have a complete Scottish package with kilts in the contemporary style. Anna _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 16:27:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GKRCHP001467 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:27:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GKO2Od009610 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GKNmJU020345; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:23:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cybrhost.net (server051.cybrhost.com [63.74.12.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GKNeJU020212 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:23:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [216.254.102.72] (HELO cc707811b) by cybrhost.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 26910468 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:13:35 -0700 From: "Suzanne" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Kilt Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:14:11 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <001e01c34bd3$fcbd8f90$811e2544@COMPUTER> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Pattern number 152 in Folkwear. We carry it among others :) Suzanne Grannd Companies www.grannd.com > I think Folkwear Patterns have a complete Scottish package with > kilts in the contemporary style. > > > Anna _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 16:28:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GKSHHP001473 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:28:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GKPGOd009817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:25:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GKPDJU021832; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:25:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cybrhost.net (server051.cybrhost.com [63.74.12.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GKNeJW020212 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:23:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [216.254.102.72] (HELO cc707811b) by cybrhost.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 26910954 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:18:03 -0700 From: "Suzanne" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:18:39 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <001e01c34bd3$fcbd8f90$811e2544@COMPUTER> Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] ADV Grand Opening of Costume Supply Shope X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hopefully this will be excused, however since it does apply to the list and I do know quite a few of you out there, I wanted to let everyone know that our new store is having it's grand opening events. Saturday, July 19th from 11:00 am until 7:00 pm and again on Sunday, July 27th from 12:00 pm until 5:00 pm For extra fun, we are taking 10% off all orders over $20 if you come in full costume. (Sorry, simply a mask or hat won't do...we want to see what you can do with these supplies.) See our website for more information and link to a map. Suzanne Grannd Companies 295 Main Street South River NJ 08882 732-390-0506 FAX 732-390-1694 http://www.grannd.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 17:01:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GL1AHP001555 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:01:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GKw7Od013676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:58:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GKw1en018511; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:58:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6GKvten018368 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:57:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWnMJMJJEgYdi888d+Juy7FVeP/picNfh+g==">; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:57:01 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H485GZ9G; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:57:01 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:24:38 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? Message-ID: <20030716.164720.-228733.2.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,4-6 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO <<>> God forbid!!! I was taller than everyone in my class while growing up and could never buy any clothes "off the rack" that fit. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 17:46:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GLk2HP001693 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:46:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GLfUOd018482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:41:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GLf9en023465; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:41:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GLf4en023399 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:41:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A6705C9008A; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:41:04 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A66F3601C4; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:41:03 -0500 Message-ID: <012801c34be3$3e6a0220$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030716.164720.-228733.2.catpurson@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: height Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:43:06 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lalah, Have to laugh at you girl!!!!! All of my siblings and I had all these diseases as children except whooping cough. Hmmm... could we have been all 7-8 ft tall if we didn't get the diseases. We couldn't buy clothing off the rack either. My mother used to say that we grew so tall because we played and worked hard, everyone ate at least a teaspoon of dirt as a toddler, and we all went barefooted nine months out of the year. Now I will confess, I did make mudpies frequently and feed them to my little brother who grew up to be 7 ft. tall. Maybe that Mississippi Mud has something special in it! Does anyone remember the Kellogg's Corn Flakes commercials that said, "If you eat Corn Flakes, you will grow as tall as corn." Then they showed a big field of tall corn. When people would make comments to my Mom about how tall we were, she would say, "They ate lots of Corn Flakes." Actually we didn't... bacon, eggs, grits, and biscuits was more like it... everyday. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 19:40:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GNeWHP001905 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:40:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GNbYOd001035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:37:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GNbVdl020736; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:37:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GNbLdm020627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:37:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6GNbUbh032056 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:37:41 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6GNbOm0032054 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:37:24 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pirates Costume Question Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:37:24 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030716095009.00b300c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030716095009.00b300c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307161937.24567.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 16 July 2003 12:58 pm, Dawn Jacobson wrote: > At 03:46 PM 7/15/2003 +0000, Jessica wrote: > >Yes, I think you may be right. Confused costumer and creative license > >probably had a huge part in this decision. I guess if you are the type of > >person who is of the adament belief that the corset is uncomfortable you > >might not have enough foresight to realize that that lacing on the shift's > >sleeves is going to be even more uncomfortable then the corset. Even if that didn't happen, the cord was quite thick, and would hurt where it was pushed into the skin. Those sleeves are the stupidest thing I've ever seen in any kind of costume, ever. [text cut here] > > Disney exerts tremendous power over people doing design work for them, so > that everything that is connected with their name has that "Disney" look. > They produce big design guideline books, and usually have final approval on > everything, so the final authority for the costume designs was not the > designer, the director, or the producer: it was somebody sitting in an > office in Burbank that works for the corporation. Not exactly the most > creative atmosphere, but it guarantees that if it says "Disney" on it, it > will be wholesome family entertainment with a certain look. Though I don't see why sleeves laced to the shoulder are more "wholesome" or "family" than simple straight ones.... -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 19:47:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GNlNHP001924 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:47:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GNiBOd001684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:44:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GNi9dl025038; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:44:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GNi0dm024960 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6GNiAbh032103 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:44:21 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6GNi4Ej032101 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:44:04 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carako Jacket? Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:44:04 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <001301c34bcd$1844b240$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <001301c34bcd$1844b240$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307161944.04452.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 16 July 2003 03:04 pm, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi.......... > First i want to thanks all those of you who helped me so generously with > informations and tips about Carako Jackets. > I have ben very buisy sewing: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/caraco_jacket.htm It's breath-taking, Bjarne. I envy you your ability to sew--and your patience with the details. -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 19:49:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GNnnHP001929 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:49:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GNktOd001905 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:46:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GNksdl026507; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:46:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GNkmdm026455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:46:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6GNlBbh032121 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:47:15 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6GNlAIp032119 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:47:10 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:47:09 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200307160136.22252.cathy@thyrsus.com> <027c01c34b64$d149e6c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <027c01c34b64$d149e6c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307161947.09961.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 16 July 2003 02:38 am, Penny Ladnier wrote: > Cathy, > > Men do gain a lot in chest size in their 20s and 30s. This is when their > shoulders get broad. I knew there were other examples, but if it's as common for this to happen as you suggest, I'm surprised it isn't a better known fact. > > We have a photo taken of my 15 y.o. son on the platform for swimming. He > was in position to dive. I was floored to see all the muscles in his upper > body. > > Swimmers male and female generally have broader shoulders. My son and > daughter have been competitive swimming for the past five years. My 11 > y.o. daughter has swimmer's shoulders this year. Now I understand why > women's competitive swim suits are cut the way they are. That doesn't surprise me. For men, the more you use your muscles the bigger they get. The same is somewhat true of women, but the effect is less pronounced because of the difference in hormonal balance. > > I was watching ESPN tonight with the women's water polo event. My > goodness, these women's shoulder's were are broad as men's. Then I watched > the synicized (sp) ladies swimming and men's diving. Their shoulders were > not as large. I guess they don't have to do endurance swimming like lap > swimming. See above. -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 19:59:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GNx6HP001943 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:59:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GNu2Od002771 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:56:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GNu1jH002715; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GNtwjH002644 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:55:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-100-211.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.100.211]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFX26412; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:55:50 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <009b01c34bf6$66816560$d3644ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307160136.22252.cathy@thyrsus.com><027c01c34b64$d149e6c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <200307161947.09961.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:00:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >This is when their > shoulders get broad. Help ! if this is in everycase my son will never fit through doors by the time he is 20-30 :) >For men, the more you use your muscles the bigger they get. Not necessarily it depends on the type of work and the person, I know many tiny unmuscular (looking) farmers and climbers who are very strong. >The same is somewhat true of women, but the effect is less pronounced because of the difference in hormonal balance. The differance in work applies here too I think. Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 20:02:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H023HP001954 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:02:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GNx7Od003014 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:59:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GNx5jH004392; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:59:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f92.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GNx2jH004288 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:59:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:58:57 -0700 Received: from 129.244.252.93 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:58:56 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.252.93] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Extant clothing, was Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QEI -how tall? Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:58:56 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jul 2003 23:58:57.0270 (UTC) FILETIME=[38282960:01C34BF6] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "Melanie Wilson" >>Just talking of 17th c. clothes: This is why it is so difficult to find >>any >>examples of bogstandard every-day clothing, and that's why I love the >>findingsof garments that were incorporated in houses. >Oh yes have you read about the project detailing those ? Apparently >builders >are still really supersticious about them and rarely tell anyone ! You know, I'm aware that this is the current belief - and a lot of people have been -told- that this was the reason that it certainly IS a reason now, but I haven't seen convincing evidence that says the reason things were concealed was for superstitious reasons in the past. Sorry, pet peeve. Marc _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 20:11:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H0B5HP001963 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:11:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H086Od003833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:08:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H081jH009683; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H07rjH009627 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:07:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-100-211.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.100.211]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFX26853; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:07:51 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00bd01c34bf8$14f9e580$d3644ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QEI-how tall? Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:12:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >You know, I'm aware that this is the current belief - and a lot of people have been -told- that this was the reason that it certainly IS a reason now, but I haven't seen convincing evidence that says the reason things were concealed was for superstitious reasons in the past. Sorry are you saying you don't believe they hide clothing due to superstision in the past ? I've no idea one way or the other, but I do wonder why else would you hide it ? Here is the site I read it on http://www.concealedgarments.org/information/what_dcg.html Maybe they have some basis for the suggestion Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 20:40:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H0eYHP002019 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:40:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H0baOd006439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:37:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H0bWjH026979; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:37:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H0bSjI026951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:37:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6H0bwbh032356 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:37:59 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6H0bw0I032354 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:37:58 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:37:57 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200307161947.09961.cathy@thyrsus.com> <009b01c34bf6$66816560$d3644ed5@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <009b01c34bf6$66816560$d3644ed5@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307162037.57739.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 16 July 2003 08:00 pm, Melanie Wilson wrote: > >This is when their > > shoulders get broad. > > Help ! if this is in everycase my son will never fit through doors by the > time he is 20-30 :) > > >For men, the more you use your muscles the bigger > they get. > > Not necessarily it depends on the type of work and the person, I know many > tiny unmuscular (looking) farmers and climbers who are very strong. I accept your correction. I was making a generalization, and as a lawyer I should have remembered Oliver Wendell Holmes' remark that generalizations are no good--including this one. :-) > > >The same is somewhat true of women, but the effect is less > pronounced because of the difference in hormonal balance. > > The differance in work applies here too I think. But there I was talking about women and men both engaged in the same types of muscle use--swimming. I think that there's a gender difference in how big your muscles get even if you are doing the same types of work. -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 21:15:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H1FkHP002080 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:15:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H1CoOd009043 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:12:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H1CmJ9016709; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:12:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H1CjJ9016642 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:12:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.114.2663a196 (2519) for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:12:31 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <114.2663a196.2c4751fe@aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:12:30 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carako Jacket? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/16/2003 7:44:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cathy@thyrsus.com writes: > It's breath-taking, Bjarne. Yes, Just lovely. I can't wait to see it on someone with its petticoat, a fluffy neckerchief and a big hat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 21:25:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H1P1HP002100 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:25:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H1M0Od009772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H1LxJ9012698; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:21:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H1LtJ9012669 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:21:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AA33A130092; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:21:55 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AA331BF01E6; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:21:55 -0500 Message-ID: <01c701c34c02$0b018380$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307160136.22252.cathy@thyrsus.com><027c01c34b64$d149e6c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <200307161947.09961.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:23:34 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cathy, Oh, my favorite subject... Menswear. The men's chest growth is kind of a trade fact. I was taught about menswear from three old seasoned salesmen. I learned so much from them when selling menswear. Funny, men's clothing is not talked about that much outside of the stores. Some of it, you just know, and really don't talk about. Most men just want something to fit and not an explanation why. Just dress them for the occasion, they are happy, but dress them well. We all have visions of the tailor with the measuring tape that we see in the movies. There is so much more to it. Their clothing is very much suited to personality, professional, color themes, event/occasion for dress, fit, and above all comfort. So much falls into dressing a man and making him feel comfortable in what he is wearing. Have you ever seen a man who doesn't feel comfortable in his clothing. They look like little boys squirming.... OR get me out of this as soon as possible. I guess I am weird, when I see a man, I try to figure out what to dress him in. I really got into menswear because my younger brother was having so much trouble finding store bought clothing to fit him. It was funny in the mid- 70s there was a big push in the industry to hire women to sell menswear. So I saw the opportunity and jumped in. When selling menswear, you really have to judge a lot about a man really quick. They generally do not want to try on dozens of items... may be one or two items. So you need to know what questions to ask when the customer approaches. I truly do miss selling menswear. I just can't stand for eight hours a day. If I could, I would be out on the salesfloor. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 21:32:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H1WAHP002147 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:32:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H1TDOd010586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:29:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H1TAJ9020300; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:29:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H1T6J9020236 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:29:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABE212009A; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:29:06 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABE21E201E6; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:29:06 -0500 Message-ID: <01cc01c34c03$0b609e00$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307160136.22252.cathy@thyrsus.com><027c01c34b64$d149e6c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net><200307161947.09961.cathy@thyrsus.com> <009b01c34bf6$66816560$d3644ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:30:44 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Mel!!!! This is very true in what you said. That was part of the point about the swimmers. Divers and syn. swimmers generally have small shoulders compared to the lap swimmers shoulders that were broad. I just got my kids' swim team photos today. We almost fell over when we saw my daughter's photo and how large her shoulders and upper arm muscles are compared to last year. Even more shocked that she swam 55 laps today for a charity. I think I would be dead if I did that now. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 21:59:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H1xIHP002186 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:59:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H1uIOd012797 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:56:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H1uHs8005063; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:56:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H1uDs9005041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:56:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6H1uhbh032468 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:56:43 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6H1uhqa032466 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:56:43 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:56:43 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200307161947.09961.cathy@thyrsus.com> <01c701c34c02$0b018380$0400a8c0@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <01c701c34c02$0b018380$0400a8c0@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307162156.43111.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 16 July 2003 09:23 pm, Penny Ladnier wrote: > Cathy, > > Oh, my favorite subject... Menswear. The men's chest growth is kind of a > trade fact. I was taught about menswear from three old seasoned salesmen. > I learned so much from them when selling menswear. Fascinating. > Funny, men's clothing > is not talked about that much outside of the stores. Some of it, you just > know, and really don't talk about. Most men just want something to fit and > not an explanation why. Just dress them for the occasion, they are happy, > but dress them well. Yes, that's too true. My husband has certain preferences (of color and fabric), but beyond that he's not interested in involving himself with the details. > > We all have visions of the tailor with the measuring tape that we see in > the movies. There is so much more to it. Their clothing is very much > suited to personality, professional, color themes, event/occasion for > dress, fit, and above all comfort. So much falls into dressing a man and > making him feel comfortable in what he is wearing. Have you ever seen a > man who doesn't feel comfortable in his clothing. They look like little > boys squirming.... OR get me out of this as soon as possible. Oh, yes. Thanks for your comments. -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 22:24:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H2NxHP002254 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:23:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H2L5Od014762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:21:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H2L5s8018642; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:21:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H2L2s8018606 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A80E9910074; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:21:02 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A80E587021C; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:21:02 -0500 Message-ID: <022301c34c0a$447666a0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307161947.09961.cathy@thyrsus.com><01c701c34c02$0b018380$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <200307162156.43111.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:22:27 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Your welcome Cathy. I think people shy away from menswear because it seems to be a mystery. You have to give men their space, but then read their mind too. These three old salesmen did one of the most wonderful things... passed on their knowledge before they retired. Recently I meet one of my old neighbors.. come to find out he sold menswear for 35 years. We talked for half a day. It was so fascinating to hear about his years of salesmanship. He started out selling after WW2 and retired in the late 70s. It was so neat to talk with someone who had first hand experience during this wonderful span of time. I really should go visit him again... or get locked out of my house... that is how I met him. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 22:24:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H2OLHP002258 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:24:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H2HSOd014452 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:17:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H2HQs8016572; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:17:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6H2HMs8016513 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:17:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-116-255-140.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.116.255.140 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2003 02:17:21 -0000 Message-ID: <000801c34c09$8dad5730$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030716191757.78961.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need quick 1920s underpinning help Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:17:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Dawn, I'm not sure if this will work, but I found one minimizing bodyshaper at herroom.com -- http://www.herroom.com/Va_Bien,Vab001-701,4.cfm It doesn't cover the thighs, though. Let me know if you find anything else -- I need one of these too! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 22:33:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H2XHHP002268 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:33:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H2U6Od015714 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:30:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H2U4s8023346; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:30:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H2U1s9023270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-237.sonic.net [209.148.112.237]) by eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h6H2Tsiu014423 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:29:55 -0700 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030716192856.00af3ff8@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:31:52 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QEI-how tall? In-Reply-To: <00bd01c34bf8$14f9e580$d3644ed5@pavilion> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:12 AM 7/17/2003 +0100, you wrote: > >You know, I'm aware that this is the current belief - and a lot of people >have been -told- that this was the reason that it certainly IS a reason now, >but I haven't seen convincing evidence that says the reason things were >concealed was for superstitious reasons in the past. > >Sorry are you saying you don't believe they hide clothing due to >superstision in the past ? > >I've no idea one way or the other, but I do wonder why else would you hide >it ? A while back I corresponded with someone who studies concealed garments. Yes, superstition/magic is a factor. But he said some items got built into buildings out of sheer carelessness with the trash. Builders still apparently leave junk in place, including occasionally clothing, just because they don't want to clean up. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 23:21:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H3L4HP002403 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:21:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H3HqOd019760 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:17:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H3HnYM017720; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:17:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f64.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H3HlYM017638 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:17:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:17:42 -0700 Received: from 129.244.252.27 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:17:41 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.252.27] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:17:41 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jul 2003 03:17:42.0044 (UTC) FILETIME=[FBE045C0:01C34C11] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re: AverageHeight, wa X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "Melanie Wilson" >>You know, I'm aware that this is the current belief - and a lot of people >>have been -told- that this was the reason that it certainly IS a reason >>now, >>but I haven't seen convincing evidence that says the reason things were >>concealed was for superstitious reasons in the past. >Sorry are you saying you don't believe they hide clothing due to >superstision in the past ? I'm saying that we don't know why they did it, or even if there was a single reason for it. >I've no idea one way or the other, but I do wonder why else would you hide >it ? Some concealments are just as likely to be trash dumps by workers, Others may be kids stuffing things in walls, or under floors. There are any number of reasons we may never know (and yes, some sort of superstitious thing may werll account for some of them). People often do weird things for some truly pointless reasons. You check out some of the places I grew up in you will find some ritual silberware concealments from me getting seriously bored and findling ways to amuse me. God only knows what I would have been hiding if we hadn't had TV to distract me :) >Here is the site I read it on >http://www.concealedgarments.org/information/what_dcg.html Maybe they have >some basis for the suggestion i've read their literature (excellent site, BTW), as well as the literature that has shown up elsewhere. As I said, it's a popular theory, and has become more so since it started getting published as 'ritual concealment'. If you haven't seen the works of Ronald Hutton, he's got some interesting examples of "folklore" that was presented back in the 19th century as extending back to pagan times, that is now frequently repeated as such, but in fact only goes back to the 18th century. Marc _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 16 23:50:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H3oqHP002463 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:50:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H3lJOd022257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:47:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H3lIYM002292; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:47:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H3lDYM002214 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:47:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p239-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.239] by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19czjZ-0005fr-00; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:47:09 +1200 Message-ID: <007001c34c16$17b33d80$efc0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030716034255.28492.qmail@web11407.mail.yahoo.com> <006c01c34b99$54e948c0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval pins Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:40:27 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Actually they do have some "adult" pilgrim badges in a specially marked > area. But they are period, believe it or not. I have to admit I had a good laugh at some of them. They are just brilliantly wicked and anyone who hs ideas that the middle ages were extremely prude would have their eyes opened. Personally I think "chicken love" would make a great addition to my charm bracelet;) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 00:11:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H4BFHP002522 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:11:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H486Od024071 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:08:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H481qU012352; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H47vqU012292 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:07:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1e0.d6fe610 (16099) for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:07:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-m06.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.134]) by air-id11.mx.aol.com (v95.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID113-3ee33f1621142e0; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:07:48 -0400 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:07:48 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re:Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QEI-how tall? MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <6027B830.7A6BF65A.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >A while back I corresponded with someone who studies concealed garments. >Yes, superstition/magic is a factor. But he said some items got built into >buildings out of sheer carelessness with the trash. Builders still >apparently leave junk in place, including occasionally clothing, just >because they don't want to clean up. That was my conclusion as well - I've seen several citations in 17th century works about what to wall up in a house. First question I ask when talking to someone who's doing a rehab is "What'd ya find?" I've found neat things that were obviously put there on purpose, but I've also personally found lots of "crap" in walls...and I'll never forget the ancient family car that always had the rattle in the door. The window stopped working. When he took the door panel off, an old coke can fell out. I know my grandfather has walled up valuables-but that's another story. Constance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 00:14:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H4DvHP002526 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:14:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H4AeOd024278 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:10:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H4AdqU013552; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:10:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H4AZqU013462 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:10:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1e5.d647d7c (15901) for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-m05.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.133]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v95.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID94-3e1d3f1621b0310; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:10:24 -0400 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:10:24 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval pins MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4C55ED66.6FAF2258.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I have to admit I had a good laugh at some of them. One of the fellows who tends the shop at Pennsic thought I was a drunk until someone explained that just seeing the sign sets me into fits of giggles. Constance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 00:54:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H4sLHP002570 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:54:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H4oHOd027217 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:50:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H4oFqU003275; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:50:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp.austarmetro.com.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H4nfqW003051 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:49:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ewalpole (dialup-136.40.220.203.acc05-nort-cbr.comindico.com.au [203.220.40.136])h6H4kLpi001955 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:46:26 +1000 Message-ID: <000201c34c1d$ad5e3220$8828dccb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: why not to release corsets quickly Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:16:43 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 2:52 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: why not to release corsets quickly >This from a SCA medic (as told to me): > >And you must NEVER release the corset in any way if a person is >choking. Do the Heimlich with the corset in place. Yes, it's really >hard. If you loosen (or worse, cut) the corset, there is a sharp intake of >breath - which pushes the object they're choking on even deeper. > >Sandy > In the most recent 1st aid course I did (about 10 months ago) they suggested that the heimlich maneuver was not commonly used anymore instead common practice is what's called a lateral chest thrust (lie them on their side spread your hands over the side of their ribcage and push down sharply) this would seem to be more feasible with a corset on than the heimlich maneuver which requires you to dig your fist in underneath their ribs, not something you can achieve with a rigid busk running down the front. The heimlich maneuver also has other associated dangers if it's not done properly and has been shown to be less reliable (mainly because you are fighting gravity to get whatever it is up & out of the airway) Just a suggestion in case you ever find yourself in that situation Elizabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 00:54:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H4sLHP002571 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:54:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H4ntOd027180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:49:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H4nrqU003132; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:49:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp.austarmetro.com.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H4nfqU003051 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:49:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ewalpole (dialup-136.40.220.203.acc05-nort-cbr.comindico.com.au [203.220.40.136])h6H4kLpg001955 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:46:24 +1000 Message-ID: <000101c34c1d$ac626d00$8828dccb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: why not to release corsets quickly Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:37:28 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: Cozit / Liz To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 1:30 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: why not to release corsets quickly >There is an exception, BTW. If someone is in an extreme heat emergency >and/or is having extreme difficulty in breathing and the corset/bodice >cannot be released easily... then the other situation needs to take >priority over the risk of the quick release... or so I've been told... >I'd double check before you pass *that* part on. >-Elisabeth Based on the first aid courses I've attended I'd suggest that this would be the case, it's the same idea if you have someone with a suspected spinal injury You try not to move their spine, but if they aren't breathing you need to tilt their head back to give them EAR (expired air respiration/ mouth to mouth) otherwise the windpipe will not open properly (I'm sure you know it's harder to breathe if your chin is on your chest). The advice I've been given is see if you can get their lungs to inflate with their head in position, but if you can't then you've just got to tilt their head, better for them to be alive with a spinal injury than dead. Elizabeth (no, the other one) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 00:54:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H4sXHP002577 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:54:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H4oPOd027249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:50:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H4oOqU003383; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:50:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp.austarmetro.com.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H4nfqY003051 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:49:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ewalpole (dialup-136.40.220.203.acc05-nort-cbr.comindico.com.au [203.220.40.136])h6H4kLpe001955 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:46:22 +1000 Message-ID: <000001c34c1d$ab1be340$8828dccb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: disease & height (was: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall?) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:20:02 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: catpurson@juno.com To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 12:24 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall? ><<to height in that while your body is busy fighting off infection it stops >putting valuable resources into non essential things like growing >taller.>>> > > I find that a bit hard to believe. As a child, I had German >measles, three day measles, mumps, chicken pox, whooping cough, and still >grew to be 5'10" tall. My mother was 5'3" tall and came from a well to >do family. My dad was 5'11" tall and came from a lower middle class >family. I suspect it is more in the genes than in the diet or what >disease we had as kids. > >Lalah >Never give up, Never surrender Oh yes I agree that genes are more of a determining factor than childhood diseases, but diseases (especially if you get a severe dose, or it becomes a protracted illness) still have an impact especially if they come during a growth spurt. Nutrition is not usually an issue unless you are severely undernourished, but some people are that severely undernourished, e.g. my grandmother was the youngest child in her family & the depression hit her family hard, when she was about 7 years old, her older siblings had largely finished growing but because of that period of a few years in which she did not receive enough food she was the shortest of all her sisters & shorter than her mother. Obviously this is not a really scientific study with only one example to go on, but it does show that food (or lack thereof) can affect whether or not you reach your full genetic potential. Just my bit Elizabeth Walpole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 02:07:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H67cHP003890 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:07:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H64TOd002707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:04:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H64R8u009735; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:04:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H64N8u009646 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:04:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-96-195.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.96.195]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFY05228; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:04:15 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00ca01c34c29$de22d260$d3644ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307161947.09961.cathy@thyrsus.com><009b01c34bf6$66816560$d3644ed5@pavilion> <200307162037.57739.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:08:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >But there I was talking about women and men both engaged in the same types of muscle use--swimming. Fair enough :) >I think that there's a gender difference in how big your muscles get even if you are doing the same types of work. My modern instinct tells me you are right, physical size of muscle propably appears bigger, but I wonder if bigger necessarily means stronger or how it affects the bones ? For instance is a 5 ft 6 inch woman comparable to a 5 ft 6 inch man ? I'd suggest they were on the grounds I'm as strong if not stronger than most 5 ft 6 men I know, however as most men are bigger than most women, your hypothosis would seem to be true simply because it is not like for like ? Not sure I can back that up at present but if I get time next week when I'm on site with a load of skellies I'll try and look. Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 02:11:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H6BQHP004675 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:11:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H68aOd002928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:08:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H68Z8u011489; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:08:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H68W8u011464 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:08:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-96-195.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.96.195]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFY05370; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:08:29 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00d301c34c2a$7697c0a0$d3644ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307160136.22252.cathy@thyrsus.com><027c01c34b64$d149e6c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net><200307161947.09961.cathy@thyrsus.com><009b01c34bf6$66816560$d3644ed5@pavilion> <01cc01c34c03$0b609e00$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:12:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Penny >Even more shocked that she swam 55 laps today for a charity. I think I would be dead if I did that now You & me both :) How long is a lap ? Here we tend to do lengths or more often metres, either way more that 4 lengths at 25m and I'd be dead I think :) My daughters record is 800m (the 9 y o) She is a strong swimmer as is her brother. Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 02:15:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H6FtHP005673 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:15:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H6CcOd003204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:12:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H6CZ8u013408; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:12:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H6CW8u013388 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:12:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-96-195.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.96.195]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFY05517; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:12:30 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00e201c34c2b$05f43120$d3644ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030716192856.00af3ff8@pop.sonic.net> Subject: Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QEI-how tall? Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:16:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Builders still apparently leave junk in place, including occasionally clothing, just because they don't want to clean up. Oh dear now I'm going to have to be very sure my builder do not go building any of my clothes especially my costumes into my extension, if I ever get it :) Really that is a good enough reason I guess, but in days when clothing was valuble it still seem a fairly odd way to get rid of the rubbish, why build a specical place for it if I read that web page correctly ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 02:16:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H6GrHP005854 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:16:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H68uOd002953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:08:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H68u8u011680; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:08:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80401.mail.yahoo.com (web80401.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6H68r8u011613 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:08:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030717060848.79605.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.124.118.50] by web80401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:08:48 PDT Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:08:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QEI-how tall? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030716192856.00af3ff8@pop.sonic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Lavolta Press wrote: > A while back I corresponded with someone who studies > concealed garments. > Yes, superstition/magic is a factor. But he said > some items got built into > buildings out of sheer carelessness with the trash. > Builders still > apparently leave junk in place, including > occasionally clothing, just > because they don't want to clean up. OTOH, most heavy construction workers I know follow superstitions (such as putting a fresh-cut conifer at the top of the steel framing when it's completed) just in case. This thread jogged my memory--a friend of mine used to work for one of the big construction companies that was hired by CalTrans to build part of the 210 Freeway (she drove one of the machines that laid concrete). The day they were to finish the paving, the guys on her crew took up a collection to pay for a replacement bra so she could run out during lunch, buy the replacement, change bras, and bring the worn bra back to the site, so it could be put on the roadbed before they poured the last bit of concrete to finish the freeway. I don't recall if any of the guy "donated" their undershorts or T-shirts to be paved over. Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 02:22:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H6MIHP006645 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:22:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H6J9Od003671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:19:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H6J88u016536; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:19:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H6J58u016514 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:19:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-96-195.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.96.195]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFY05775; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:19:03 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00ed01c34c2b$f06d3760$d3644ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re:AverageHeight, wa Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:23:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I'm saying that we don't know why they did it, or even if there was a single reason for it. OK got you, yes I think we agree too often 'ritual' is a word for I don't know why. I had a similar argument on who smiths must be considered magical because of the general populus not knowing how metal was made. I argued that most people now didsn't know the chemical reactrions in cake baking but nobody considered turning raw ingrediants into cakes majic. There are legends of magical smith, but yes I do sometimes think ritual is overstated >Some concealments are just as likely to be trash dumps by workers, Not having read the site reports it is hard to say, but the impression I get is they are deliberate sealings. Next time I see a building archaeologist I'll quiz them on their first hand knowledge. >People often do weird things for some truly pointless reasons. Agreed >i've read their literature (excellent site, BTW), as well as the literature that has shown up elsewhere. As I said, it's a popular theory, and has become more so since it started getting published as 'ritual concealment'. I haven't read much as it is the textiles themselves that interest me more that why they are there >If you haven't seen the works of Ronald Hutton, Yes I have a very good read Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 02:25:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H6PrHP007352 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:25:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H6N0Od003963 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H6N08u018255; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H6Mv8u018238 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:22:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-96-195.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.96.195]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFY05897; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:22:55 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <010201c34c2c$7aadfa40$d3644ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c34c1d$ab1be340$8828dccb@ewalpole> Subject: Re: disease & height (was: Re: [h-cost] Re: QE I - how tall?) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:27:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Nutrition is not usually an issue unless you are severely undernourished, but some people are that severely undernourished In the past people had the potential to be persistantly undernourised, surprisingly men seem to sugffer more easily than women. We are so used to all food all year we forget how bad spring & early summer was in the past, yes they were fed but the nutritional values were way down Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 02:48:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H6mGHP011830 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:48:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H6j3Od005166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:45:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H6j18u027075; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:45:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H6iw8u027034 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:44:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A5EA236009A; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:44:58 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A5EA240292; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:44:58 -0500 Message-ID: <004a01c34c2f$46204640$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307160136.22252.cathy@thyrsus.com><027c01c34b64$d149e6c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net><200307161947.09961.cathy@thyrsus.com><009b01c34bf6$66816560$d3644ed5@pavilion><01cc01c34c03$0b609e00$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <00d301c34c2a$7697c0a0$d3644ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:47:21 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mel, Congrads to your 9 y.o. I love to watch kids in competitive swimming. Several people don't realize the amount of kids that receive college scholarships for swimming. Our neighborhood pool is a 25 yard or meter pool. I can't remember. My daughter only stopped because I told her the max I would give the charity is $20. Several of the 11-13 old girls swam 100+ laps. Her best friend swam 115 laps... because her grandmother was donating $1 a lap. I guess she didn't know how much these kids really love to swim! Now Mel, when they finished the charity swim, all the girls stayed at the pool playing Marco Polo until 8 PM... when the pool closed. Oh, to be young and have energy! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 03:00:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H70eHP014092 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:00:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H6vlOd006046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:57:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H6vj1o002859; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:57:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H6vg1o002827 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:57:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-96-195.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.96.195]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFY07452; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:57:40 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <019001c34c31$55a6a940$d3644ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307160136.22252.cathy@thyrsus.com><027c01c34b64$d149e6c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net><200307161947.09961.cathy@thyrsus.com><009b01c34bf6$66816560$d3644ed5@pavilion><01cc01c34c03$0b609e00$0400a8c0@comcast.net><00d301c34c2a$7697c0a0$d3644ed5@pavilion> <004a01c34c2f$46204640$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:02:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Penny >Congrads to your 9 y.o. I love to watch kids in competitive swimming. Several people don't realize the amount of kids that receive college scholarships for swimming. Not here the don't :) >Our neighborhood pool is a 25 yard or meter pool. I can't remember. My daughter only stopped because I told her the max I would give the charity is $20. Thanks just curioous really is the lap up & down or round the pool ? Anyway it is a good distance >Several of the 11-13 old girls swam 100+ laps. Her best friend swam 115 laps... because her grandmother was donating $1 a lap. I guess she didn't know how much these kids really love to swim! Pretty good ! We did a worm charm once and Alex was sponsered 1 pound a worm by one chap we got over 100 worms !!!! >Now Mel, when they finished the charity swim, all the girls stayed at the pool playing Marco Polo until 8 PM... when the pool closed. I hate that kind of energy makes me feel really old :) Is Marco Polo like Water Polo ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 03:21:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H7LZHP018234 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:21:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H7IVOd007267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:18:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H7IT1o011674; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:18:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H7IQ1o011649 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:18:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ADC317C0070; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:18:27 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ADC3F0294; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:18:27 -0500 Message-ID: <005e01c34c33$f342f300$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307160136.22252.cathy@thyrsus.com><027c01c34b64$d149e6c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net><200307161947.09961.cathy@thyrsus.com><009b01c34bf6$66816560$d3644ed5@pavilion><01cc01c34c03$0b609e00$0400a8c0@comcast.net><00d301c34c2a$7697c0a0$d3644ed5@pavilion><004a01c34c2f$46204640$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <019001c34c31$55a6a940$d3644ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:20:49 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mel, Thinking back to the events... they considered a lap one length of the pool today for the charity. Normally when they compete, each event is 50 meters. Back and forth the length of the pool. About half the pools in our circuit are yards and the other meters. They have to separate the scores/records for these. Our three coaches are home for the summer from college. All of them are going to college on swimming scholarships. One of the swimmers in the 2000 Olympics was on our swimteam throughout her childhood. She was in college for swimming when she qualified for the Olympics. It was wonderful seeing someone from the neighborhood swimming live in Sidney! It gave great inspiration to the kids in our neighborhood. When she returned, she talked with all the kids on the team. What is a worm charm? I am imagining all kinds of things. You already had me laughing once about the cake comparison... are you going to do it again? Marco Polo is a game the kids play at the pool. It is not like water polo from what I have observed. I will have Katie explain it to me in the morning. I'll get back to you on that one. I just know the kids can play it for hours. Shashy told me that in the section of Pennsylvania where she lives in if you are a good swimmer, you are like a celebrity. She said lots of kids receive swimming scholarships. It is time for bed... I will continue giggling until I find out what a worm charm is. Try my cake experiment! It would make a good show for a science fair. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 03:26:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H7Q2HP018947 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:26:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H7N0Od007742 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H7N01o015844; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41510.mail.yahoo.com (web41510.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6H7Mv1o015779 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:22:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030717072252.18000.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:22:52 BST Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:22:52 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QEI-how tall? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <00bd01c34bf8$14f9e580$d3644ed5@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I can give you proof, living proof, in my very vivid memory. Granted, in germany not in England, but in germany clothes were concealed as well, together with shoes and dead cats - often they had a rosary pulled through their bodies. I KNOW that this was done for superstituous reasons because my own grandmother told me that this is what they did, and she livd in village, thus I talked to the other old ladies in that village when I was a kid,coz I was so fascinated, and they told me the same, about how the house is protected when they put in a piece of their clothing, how it protects the owner of that piece and their children, etc. Black mummified cats with rosaries probably don't need too much of an explanation... Thre may be a lot of other reasons, but I can vouch that in this particular region I am talking about, there were superstitous reasons. Off to the first aid exam and then on to Ely to meet Mel. :-) Nicole --- Melanie Wilson wrote: > >You know, I'm aware that this is the current belief - and a lot of people > have been -told- that this was the reason that it certainly IS a reason now, > but I haven't seen convincing evidence that says the reason things were > concealed was for superstitious reasons in the past. > > Sorry are you saying you don't believe they hide clothing due to > superstision in the past ? > > I've no idea one way or the other, but I do wonder why else would you hide > it ? > > Here is the site I read it on > http://www.concealedgarments.org/information/what_dcg.html Maybe they have > some basis for the suggestion > > Mel > > This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received > it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose > the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of > this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the > Company, unless specifically stated. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 03:27:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H7RhHP019023 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:27:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H7OaOd007910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:24:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H7OZ1o016608; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:24:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au (adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au [143.216.236.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H7OX1o016547 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:24:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h6H7OQNC007319 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:54:26 +0930 (CST)' Received: from sagemsbb006.saugov.sa.gov.au (sagemsbb006.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au [143.216.59.14])(8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h6H7OQQ1007302 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:54:26 +0930 (CST)' Received: by sagemsbb006.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2654.89) id ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:54:26 +0930 Message-ID: <195B62C492A1D51199350002A589F66E09581EA8@sagemsg0013.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au> From: "Tonkin, Rebecca (PIRSA-SARDI)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:54:19 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2654.89) Content-Type: text/plain Subject: [h-cost] Re: average height X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Somebody (sorry, don't know who) wrote: >I think that there's a gender difference in how big your muscles get even if you are doing the same types of work. and Mel wrote: My modern instinct tells me you are right, physical size of muscle propably appears bigger, but I wonder if bigger necessarily means stronger or how it affects the bones ? For instance is a 5 ft 6 inch woman comparable to a 5 ft 6 inch man ? I'd suggest they were on the grounds I'm as strong if not stronger than most 5 ft 6 men I know, however as most men are bigger than most women, your hypothosis would seem to be true simply because it is not like for like ? Not sure I can back that up at present but if I get time next week when I'm on site with a load of skellies I'll try and look. Mel Statistics show that, *on average*, for a male and a female who have the same height, weight, and fitness, the male will be stronger, due to testosterone. For the same reason, *on average*, males gain muscle faster when doing an exercise program. They have inbuilt steroids. Costume content ? Ummm... gym outfit ? No, not ancient Greek. Anyone ever tried a leather strophium ? Was it leather ? Blither... Rebecca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 03:38:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H7cLHP021393 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:38:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H7ZPOd008563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:35:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H7ZN1o021768; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:35:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41511.mail.yahoo.com (web41511.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6H7ZK1o021668 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:35:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030717073515.59033.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41511.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:35:15 BST Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:35:15 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re:AverageHeight, wa To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <00ed01c34c2b$f06d3760$d3644ed5@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Melanie Wilson wrote: > > > because of the general populus not knowing how metal was made. I argued that > most people now didsn't know the chemical reactrions in cake baking but > nobody considered turning raw ingrediants into cakes majic. Hey, I DO think that cake baking is magic! :-) Magic is the science of those who existed or exist in a different belief system than ours. We explain everything with science, do we really? Ask a true scientist, many say that they reach a certain limit to their explanations, and after that they start to wonder if it is magic. *laughs* Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 03:43:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H7hXHP022447 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:43:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H7eQOd008835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:40:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H7eP1o023972; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:40:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41502.mail.yahoo.com (web41502.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6H7eM1o023909 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:40:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030717074017.84051.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:40:17 BST Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:40:17 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: why not to release corsets quickly To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000201c34c1d$ad5e3220$8828dccb@ewalpole> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > > In the most recent 1st aid course I did (about 10 months ago) they suggested > that the heimlich maneuver was not commonly used anymore instead common > practice is what's called a lateral chest thrust (lie them on their side > spread your hands over the side of their ribcage and push down sharply) this > would seem to be more feasible with a corset on than the heimlich maneuver > which requires you to dig your fist in underneath their ribs, not something > you can achieve with a rigid busk running down the front. The heimlich > maneuver also has other associated dangers if it's not done properly and has > been shown to be less reliable (mainly because you are fighting gravity to > get whatever it is up & out of the airway) Interesting, because I am NOW doing my First Aid at work refresher course (written exam in half an hour) and there is no such thing as the maneouver you suggest. I wonder if there are country differences in First Aid. The Heimlich is not called heimlich anymore to confuse everybody *laughs* but according to the teacher this week, it is still done, the difference is, the straddling of the casualty, once unconscious and lying on the ground, is NOT done anymore, instead 15 chest compressions are done. Weird, if you ask me, and the hushed explanation was: political correctness gone mad coz one shouldn't straddle anyone. Yeah rght, if I ever choke to death I don't give a doodah who straddles me to get the stuff out. It's very interesting what you say, I have to ask the teacher in a mo! Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 04:18:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H8I4HP032699 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 04:18:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H8F5Od010886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:15:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H8F3qw008428; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:15:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H8F1qw008357 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:15:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-117-110.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.117.110]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFY12515; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:14:52 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <020901c34c3c$1e8e5920$d3644ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <195B62C492A1D51199350002A589F66E09581EA8@sagemsg0013.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: average height Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:19:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Statistics show that, *on average*, for a male and a female who have the same height, weight, and fitness, the male will be stronger, due to testosterone. Is he stronger or does he just push the envelope further ? I'd be interested to see the justification, because now I think about equal sizes and strength I'm not so convinced there is a difference. Ah well so many questions so little time. Costume content If you are muscular normal clothes don't fit ! Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 04:23:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H8NMHP002924 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 04:23:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H8JYOd011167 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:19:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H8JXqw010333; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:19:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6H8JUqw010306 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:19:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-117-110.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.117.110]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFY12921; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:19:28 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <021201c34c3c$c2cd77a0$d3644ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307160136.22252.cathy@thyrsus.com><027c01c34b64$d149e6c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net><200307161947.09961.cathy@thyrsus.com><009b01c34bf6$66816560$d3644ed5@pavilion><01cc01c34c03$0b609e00$0400a8c0@comcast.net><00d301c34c2a$7697c0a0$d3644ed5@pavilion><004a01c34c2f$46204640$0400a8c0@comcast.net><019001c34c31$55a6a940$d3644ed5@pavilion> <005e01c34c33$f342f300$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:23:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny >Thinking back to the events... they considered a lap one length of the pool today for the charity. Ok got it >One of the swimmers in the 2000 Olympics was on our swimteam throughout her childhood. She was in college for swimming when she qualified for the Olympics. Cool, we live near Loughborough University, and the girls get coaching there, it probably is famous in the US but it is a famous UK sports University, the runner Seb Coe & loads of others studied there >What is a worm charm? I am imagining all kinds of things. You already had me laughing once about the cake comparison... are you going to do it again? Probably you have to get as many worms as you can to rise in a set square metre. I dressedup in my African dance stuff, Alex played the drums and I did trible dance worked like a charm the nearest wormn count to us was 20. Ok the village thinks I'm a bit odd now but what is new :) >Marco Polo OK >It is time for bed.. night ! >Try my cake experiment! It would make a good show for a science fair. If we had them it might well :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 07:13:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HBDkHP007135 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:13:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HB9qOd022538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 05:09:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HB9ofG019457; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 05:09:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HB9lfH019417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 05:09:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6HBAKbh001202 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:10:20 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6HBAKtr001199 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:10:20 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: average height Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:10:19 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <195B62C492A1D51199350002A589F66E09581EA8@sagemsg0013.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au> <020901c34c3c$1e8e5920$d3644ed5@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <020901c34c3c$1e8e5920$d3644ed5@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307170710.19762.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 17 July 2003 04:19 am, Melanie Wilson wrote: > >Statistics show that, *on average*, for a male and a female who have the > > same height, weight, and fitness, the male will be stronger, due to > testosterone. However, I have read that, for a man and woman of the *same* height and weight the strength difference is very modest, somewhere in the vicinity of 10%. > Is he stronger or does he just push the envelope further ? Don't know what you mean by this. -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 07:36:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HBaHHP007168 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:36:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HBXKOd023986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 05:33:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HBXIfG029389; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 05:33:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HBXEfG029277 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 05:33:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessica.webwarren.com (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.17.255]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by webwarren.com (8.12.8/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6HBX7mx016941 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:33:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030717072637.0a86c9b8@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: arachne@pop.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:32:07 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Corsets and "bondage" (WAS: Re: pirates of the caribbean) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mike T. writes: >..it seems that the whole "joke" of the thing was directed toward the >not-so-knowledgeable (read "gullible" ) public who equate corsetting with >horrible deformities and some sort of male induced bondage/punishment ritual... Those of us who were of an age to read some of the news of the period remember that in the 1970's, a number of women believed that bras and girdles were garments of oppression forced upon us by dominant (and possibly sadistic) males who wanted to keep women down. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 07:59:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HBxOHP007200 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:59:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HBuNOd025322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 05:56:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HBuM8g008647; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 05:56:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HBuK8g008596 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 05:56:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessica.webwarren.com (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.17.255]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by webwarren.com (8.12.8/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6HBuD25028138 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:56:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030717073211.0a874008@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: arachne@pop.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:55:12 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Growth, menarche, swimming, and body size (WAS: re: Average Height) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny writes: >Girls in general do the majority of their growing between the ages of >11-13... According to our pediatrician, girls' body are maturing at a >faster rate that 25 years ago. Most girls are starting their period now >between the age of 11-13 y.o. Hmm. That's about the age I started in 1972; most of my friends didn't start until about 13 or 14 (and yes, I'm hearing that a lot of girls are starting at 8 or 9 today). Though to counter the idea of "too tall" or "taller adult height", one must consider (1) the onset of menarche usually means the cessation of vertical growth, and (2) the increasing population of short female immigrants (usually from Asian countries). Both of these, I think, will contribute to a moderation, if not perhaps a slight reversal, of the "growing female height" trend over the next generation or two. Somewhat later, Penny asked: >I am really interested in finding some documentation on when swimmer's >started the trick of shaving all their body hair to increase speed. At least since the mid 1970's. The boys' swim team, and the wrestling team, would shave before major meets. For the swimmers, it was to reduce drag; for the wrestlers, it was to minimize having anything on which their opponents could grab hold. (Some of the swimmers and wrestlers even shaved their heads for these reasons.) >Another fairly new trick during training is to wear pantyhose... to create >drag. Even the men do this. So when they swim an event in competition, >they will go faster without the hose. I'm not sure, but I think the boys worked with this back in high school... Rebecca Tonkin responds to Mel: >>My modern instinct tells me you are right, physical size of muscle >>propablyappears bigger, but I wonder if bigger necessarily means stronger >>or how it affects the bones ? For instance is a 5 ft 6 inch woman >>comparable to a 5 ft 6 inch man ? Normally a woman has a larger percentage of body fat than a man, so if they are the same weight, I'd expect the man to have more muscle mass, and therefore be stronger. >Statistics show that, *on average*, for a male and a female who have the >same height, weight, and fitness, the male will be stronger, due to >testosterone. I have anecdotal evidence of this from a post-op MTF transgender friend. She also notes that at the same height, people she perceived herself taller than as a man, she perceives herself shorter than as a woman. She attributes all of this to testosterone levels. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 08:12:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HCCAHP007231 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:12:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HC99Od026959 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:09:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HC998g014648; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:09:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HC958g014601 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:09:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.c3.3608bd78 (3940) for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:08:57 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:08:57 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re: ... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/16/2003 11:18:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, marccarlson20@hotmail.com writes: > If you haven't seen the works of Ronald Hutton, he's got some interesting > examples of "folklore" that was presented back in the 19th century as > extending back to pagan times, that is now frequently repeated as such, but > in fact only goes back to the 18th century. > Can you tell us which works of his has this info? I just looked him up in the card catalogue and it was not obvious which of his books might address this, except for the one on the history of modern witchcraft. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 08:16:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HCG3HP007246 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:16:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HCD8Od027177 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:13:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HCD78g016250; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:13:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HCD58g016230 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:13:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-171.75.226.212.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.226.212] helo=Dan) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19d7dA-0008FH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:13:05 -0400 Message-ID: <007401c34c5c$ffba2f80$d4e24bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307161947.09961.cathy@thyrsus.com><009b01c34bf6$66816560$d3644ed5@pavilion><200307162037.57739.cathy@thyrsus.com> <00ca01c34c29$de22d260$d3644ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:14:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Mel, IIRC forensic pathologists can tell the difference between mens and womens skeletons by the pelvic size/differences? Something to do with childbearing. Also, the length/thickness of the skeleton. Genie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 1:08 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height > >But there I was talking about women and men both engaged in the same types > of > muscle use--swimming. > > Fair enough :) > > >I think that there's a gender difference in how big your muscles get even > if > you are doing the same types of work. > > My modern instinct tells me you are right, physical size of muscle propably > appears bigger, but I wonder if bigger necessarily means stronger or how it > affects the bones ? For instance is a 5 ft 6 inch woman comparable to a 5 ft > 6 inch man ? I'd suggest they were on the grounds I'm as strong if not > stronger than most 5 ft 6 men I know, however as most men are bigger than > most women, your hypothosis would seem to be true simply because it is not > like for like ? Not sure I can back that up at present but if I get time > next week when I'm on site with a load of skellies I'll try and look. > > Mel > > > > > This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received > it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose > the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of > this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the > Company, unless specifically stated. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 08:20:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HCKWHP007259 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:20:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HCHZOd027394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:17:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HCHY8g017903; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:17:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from regulus2.blazenet.net (regulus2.blazenet.net [24.104.0.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HCHV8g017876 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:17:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from homesewer (ip166.7.blca.blazenet.net [24.104.7.166]) by regulus2.blazenet.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h6HBGPZ21226 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:16:25 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01c34c5d$629669c0$a6076818@blazenet.net> From: "linda sterner" To: Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:17:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] hiding clothes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h6HCKWHP007259 Status: RO My husband and I purchased a small house which we have deeds for it back to 1846. Someone over the years have put clothing into the walls which to me looks like they did that to block out the cold air...to keep it warmer in the winter, and also to keep out the hot air in the summer as well. Linda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 08:28:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HCSqHP007271 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:28:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HCQ0Od028129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HCPx8g022155; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:25:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HCPv8g022091 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:25:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.146.158cc48d (3940) for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:25:44 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <146.158cc48d.2c47efc7@aol.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:25:43 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] hiding clothes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/17/2003 8:17:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, homesewer@blazenet.net writes: > Someone over the years have put clothing into the walls which to me looks > like they did that to block out the cold air...to keep it warmer in the > winter, and also to keep out the hot air in the summer as well. > Does a pair of athletic shorts stuffed into an unused dryer vent count? (We discovered this was why our dryer wouldn't work well when we moved into a rental house in Middletown, RI. Clearly they were put there to keep out the cold air.) Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 08:34:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HCYFHP007289 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:34:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HCVIOd028396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:31:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HCVH8g024240; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:31:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HCVE8g024215 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:31:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from karen (CPE-65-26-82-7.kc.rr.com [65.26.82.7]) h6HCVCKd021752 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:31:12 -0500 (CDT) From: "Talia" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] hiding clothes Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:30:51 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: <146.158cc48d.2c47efc7@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That could certainly make your house warmer, all right -- by starting a fire! Talia > Does a pair of athletic shorts stuffed into an unused dryer vent > count? (We > discovered this was why our dryer wouldn't work well when we moved into a > rental house in Middletown, RI. Clearly they were put there to > keep out the cold > air.) > Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 09:20:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HDKNHP007376 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:20:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HDFgOd001659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:15:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HDFe1d015281; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:15:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HDFc1d015270 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:15:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail22.ureach.com (mail22.ureach.com [172.16.2.82]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA03146 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:15:37 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-200-213.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.213]) by mail22.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA02399 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:15:37 -0400 Message-ID: <007701c34c64$f0546850$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4C55ED66.6FAF2258.349D0FDF@cs.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval pins Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:11:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval pins > >I have to admit I had a good laugh at some of them. > > One of the fellows who tends the shop at Pennsic thought I was a drunk until someone explained that just seeing the sign sets me into fits of giggles. > > Constance I have gotten a couple of looks in a crowd when talking about period-style belts and I ask if they have tried Fettered Cock. I guess I am so used to the company I don't even think about the name! Teena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 09:49:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HDn4HP007444 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:49:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HDk1Od004185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HDjx1d001097; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:46:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HDjv1d001084 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:45:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-67.73.137.178.dial1.chicago1.level3.net ([67.73.137.178] helo=earthlink.net) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19d951-0002pd-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:45:56 -0700 Message-ID: <3F16A822.D0539C9@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:44:02 -0500 From: Ms Berard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height References: <200307161947.09961.cathy@thyrsus.com><009b01c34bf6$66816560$d3644ed5@pavilion><200307162037.57739.cathy@thyrsus.com> <007401c34c5c$ffba2f80$d4e24bab@Dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think it is something like -- on an adult skeleton, if you can put your thumb through the hole in the wing it is female. Someone told me this a long time ago. She was in something to do with forensics -- you know how sometimes you get into really weird conversations with people. Onaree Genie wrote: > > Hi Mel, > > IIRC forensic pathologists can tell the difference between mens and womens > skeletons by the pelvic size/differences? Something to do with > childbearing. Also, the length/thickness of the skeleton. > > Genie -- Proud list mom of Irish Crochet Lovers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Irish_Crochet_Lovers/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 10:05:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HE57HP007473 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:05:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HE21Od005617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HE20RT009175; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:02:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HE1wRT009121 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:01:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp456786pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net[68.51.39.237](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2003071714015301600365f7e>; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:01:53 +0000 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:00:50 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Allison Pace To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200307170038.h6H0cOjI027456@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <1284A543-B85F-11D7-AE9A-000393D446D6@comcast.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [h-cost] body shaper X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'm trying to find (quickly!) an all-in-one body > shaper that will minimize the bust to wear under a > (copy) 1928 tea frock. It seems that that was the > solution for the "woman with the generous figure > trying to achieve the desired boyish look called for > by modish fashions," (1927 Sears catalog), but most of > the ones I've seen recently don't minimize the bust. > > Any ideas on where to look? Thanks! > > Dawn I've tried to solve this same problem, and it's nearly impossible. Since those all-in-one body shapers are sized for women's figures, it's not possible to find one which compresses the bust. My first solution would be to wear a tight-fitting sports bra *over* the body shaper, to compress as much as possible. Or, better yet, use a 16th or 17th C corset over a long-line panty girdle. Lace the corset tighter at the top and looser toward the waist, aiming for the straight up and down look. Good luck - and please let us know what you did and how well it worked! Allison _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 10:06:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HE6rHP007482 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:06:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HE3nOd005777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:03:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HE3nRT009995; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:03:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HE3kRT009918 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:03:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2AE2B1B24F1 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:03:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0a7801c34c6c$3a4cb370$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re:AverageHeight, wa Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:03:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Carlson" > >I've no idea one way or the other, but I do wonder why else would you hide > >it ? Many years ago, when my mother was living with us and my now 14 y.o. son was only two, he discovered a hole in one of our walls. He also discovered that it was a really neat place to hide Grandma's shoes! We never did get them all out--so someone, someday, will find them and wonder why...some sort of ritual attached to high-heeled shoes, perhaps? lol Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 11:13:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HFDLHP007801 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:13:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HFAEOd013144 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:10:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HFACQK025931; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:10:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HF9TQK025384 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:09:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h6HF9Sp28157.; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:09:28 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:09:28 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:09:02 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Don't forget that archaeologists need to know about these things as well. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> msberard@earthlink.net 07/17/03 02:44pm >>> I think it is something like -- on an adult skeleton, if you can put your thumb through the hole in the wing it is female. Someone told me this a long time ago. She was in something to do with forensics -- you know how sometimes you get into really weird conversations with people. Onaree Genie wrote: > > Hi Mel, > > IIRC forensic pathologists can tell the difference between mens and womens > skeletons by the pelvic size/differences? Something to do with > childbearing. Also, the length/thickness of the skeleton. > > Genie -- Proud list mom of Irish Crochet Lovers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Irish_Crochet_Lovers/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 11:17:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HFHOHP007816 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:17:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HF9IOd012998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:09:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HF9GQK025249; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:09:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt30.cluster1.charter.net (remt30.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HF9BQK025140 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:09:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [68.185.167.6] (HELO laptop) by remt30.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with SMTP id 91369646 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:09:06 -0400 Message-ID: <003701c34c75$565b1440$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <195B62C492A1D51199350002A589F66E09581EA8@sagemsg0013.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au> <020901c34c3c$1e8e5920$d3644ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: average height/muscle mass Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:08:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Is he stronger or does he just push the envelope further ? I'd be interested > to see the justification, because now I think about equal sizes and strength > I'm not so convinced there is a difference. Ah well so many questions so > little time. Costume content If you are muscular normal clothes don't fit ! I'm pretty sure that the man is stronger - something about actually having more muscle mass than a woman even if they are of the same size...this is also why men tend to lose weight faster when they start to exercise/diet ~ the more muscle they have burns calories faster, while we women still have that layer of fat under the skin no matter what. Disclaimer: The above is based on statistical generalizations. Specific examples will throw this explanation right out the window. (Or as my husband said, "Me vs. Selena Williams, yeah she'd tie me into a pretzel. But overall....") ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 11:20:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HFKqHP007844 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:20:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HFHnOd014219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:17:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HFHlQK001868; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:17:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HFHjQK001731 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:17:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp456786pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net[68.51.39.237](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003071715173901100im9obe>; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:17:39 +0000 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:16:35 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Allison Pace To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200307170605.h6H6548v009997@net.indra.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [h-cost] menswear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Oh, my favorite subject... Menswear. The men's chest growth is kind of > a > trade fact. I was taught about menswear from three old seasoned > salesmen. > I learned so much from them when selling menswear. Funny, men's > clothing is Penny, I have for years tried to figure out something that I bet you would know. (I love this list!) Occasionally, I need to fit actors with modern men's suits. Since most of the stock suits aren't marked for size, I measure from armpit to armpit across the chest to figure out what size chest I think the suit will fit, and try them on the actors until I get one that does fit. My question is: Is there a "standard" way to do this? I've asked menswear salespeople but they all seem to do it by intuition - no formula. (Which I completely understand!) Example: I've got an actor with an X-inch chest. I start by putting him in a coat with an armpit-to-armpit measurement a few inches bigger than X, and proceed from there. This works fine, but I'm just curious if there's a better way... Many thanks for your help. Allison _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 11:23:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HFN4HP007864 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:23:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HFK6Od014529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:20:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HFK5QK003578; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:20:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6HFK3QK003485 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:20:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OoR/QKZIA7vTEQ0BgWgptHk=">; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:19:14 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H5A4J896; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:19:14 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:44:58 -0700 Message-ID: <20030717.081839.896.7.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-6 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Subject: [h-cost] corsets & First Aid X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Could someone maybe please summarize the what to do-what not to do with corseted people in distress? The SCA is full of ladies in corsets, and the information could be quite valuable to our First-Aid people. I didn't save the posts, drat it. Thanks, Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 12:10:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HGAQHP008089 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:10:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HG7QOd020098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:07:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HG7MQU009530; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:07:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HG7EQU009315 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:07:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.14.1599c274 (15865) for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-m06.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.134]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v95.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID64-3df93f16c9a3ff; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:06:59 -0400 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:06:59 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: RE: [h-cost] body shaper MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5EEDD7A1.5EA952AE.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> I'm trying to find (quickly!) an all-in-one body >> shaper that will minimize the bust to wear under a >> (copy) 1928 tea frock. It seems that that was the OK - I'm reading "quick but not necessarily authentic" into your query. How about a couple sizes too small racing swimsuit, the ones that don't have cups? Have you tried an ace bandage? Another idea might be to get one of those dimestore belly trimmers - basically a velcro speed version of an ace bandage - you could get the largest one and see if that would work on the "problem area"... Good luck! Constance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 12:29:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HGTMHP008148 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:29:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HGQ7Od022079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:26:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HGQ5QU024813; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:26:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12506.mail.yahoo.com (web12506.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.198]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6HGPwQU024670 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:25:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030717162556.60109.qmail@web12506.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.192.152.154] by web12506.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:25:56 PDT Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:25:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Lil Sorepaws To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200307171607.h6HG7pQW009915@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Ace Bandages & Other Binding methods (was bodyshaper) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I agree with the suggestion of a racing suit (speedo makes them flatten you out like a board!) or even two layered one on top of another (we used to do that for swimpractice) but if you want further ideas, how about a sportsbra that is a size or two too small? I have several I hate wearing because they make me look like a chubby boy and I am usually a 38C... Depending on whether or not you will have someone help you to "flatten" another option will work even better. You know that thing neoprene (?) gauzy stuff they use for wrapping wrists and ankles for sports (the stuff they put UNDER the sports tape so it doesn't rip a few layers off when you remove it!) .. have someone help mummify your upper torso in that (make it snug) and then use a wide sports tape to confine your shape further. Once you have the torso taped to the shape you want, you can even re-use it if you later slice the "bandage" down the back or sides and find a way to "lace" it for next time. Hope this helps. ;) - Lil (back to lurking) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 12:39:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HGdGHP008176 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:39:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HGaAOd023238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:36:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HGa3QU003441; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:36:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HGZpQV003152 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:35:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-179.sonic.net [209.148.112.179]) by eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h6HGZhiu005142 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:35:44 -0700 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030717092809.00b00da0@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:37:41 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re:AverageHeight, wa In-Reply-To: <00ed01c34c2b$f06d3760$d3644ed5@pavilion> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:23 AM 7/17/2003 +0100, you wrote: > >I'm saying that we don't know why they did it, or even if there was a >single >reason for it. > >OK got you, yes I think we agree too often 'ritual' is a word for I don't >know why. I think one thing some people are missing in this discussion is that _some_ concealments_ may be ritual and others not. I went through a whole exercise on some bottles my family found bricked up in a fireplace. Someone kindly put me in touch with an expert on the things-concealed-in-buildings folklore. "Witch bottles" are one of the items people used to conceal. Fireplaces were a common place to conceal magical objects. However, the folklore expert also analyzed the date the bottles were probably bricked up, the geographic area where they were found, and if I remember correctly other factors. The bottles were concealed at least a century after the practice had ceased everywhere (as far as is known) and it was done in a geographic area where witch bottles weren't ever concealed anyway (as far as is known). End result of analysis: The builders didn't feel like walking out to the trash heap, or they wanted to conceal evidence that they were drinking on the job. So, it's not like you can always assume a concealment is necessarily ritual. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 12:42:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HGgGHP008188 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:42:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HGdLOd023632 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:39:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HGdGQU006457; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:39:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12505.mail.yahoo.com (web12505.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.197]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6HGd3QU006216 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:39:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030717163902.58392.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.192.152.154] by web12505.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:39:02 PDT Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:39:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Lil Sorepaws To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200307171607.h6HG7pQW009915@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Pensic/SCA Fighter Shirts HELP?! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO With Pensic right around the corner I find myself somehow volunteered to help make a few fellow fighters some garb for combat (I am not authorized yet so I don't have to worry about myself for the moment).. The pants I think I figured out how to make extra heavy duty (french seams then "flat-fell-over" and stitched with a zigzag - the cross seams are a nightmare to sew through but it will take godzilla to rip that seam apart!!) but am not sure that the same method would be best for the shirts (lighter fabric used so thick seams may be extra discomfort) - Can any of you suggest a type (I assume t-tunic would be easiest but would it be most durable under plastic armour on a body that is in constant motion?) of shirt and how to finish it to make it last (or at least not rip easily or unravel at the seams .. I will be using mostly a cotton/linen blend fabric) ... Illustrations or pattern suggestions most welcome!! I am helping one stocky/curvy gal and one tall skinny guy with their garb and neither want the floofy & flowy peasant style which I know will be loose and easy on movement = ( Many thanks!! - Lil __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 12:49:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HGnbHP008205 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:49:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HGkdOd024530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:46:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HGkXQU012804; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:46:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HGkTQU012736 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:46:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h6HGkSSH008596 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:46:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bearmail.berkeley.edu (bearmail.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.132.38]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HGkQjM008523 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:46:26 -0700 (PDT) X-WebMail-UserID: hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:46:32 -0700 From: hrjones To: Historical Costume X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00003427, 00003483 Subject: RE: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QEI-how tall? Message-ID: <3F1875E5@bearmail.berkeley.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.62 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >===== Original Message From "Melanie Wilson" ===== >>You know, I'm aware that this is the current belief - and a lot of people >have been -told- that this was the reason that it certainly IS a reason now, >but I haven't seen convincing evidence that says the reason things were >concealed was for superstitious reasons in the past. > >Sorry are you saying you don't believe they hide clothing due to >superstision in the past ? > >I've no idea one way or the other, but I do wonder why else would you hide >it ? Well, the people who built the house I grew up in had a habit of hiding leftover lunch-bags in the walls of the houses they built. I rather doubt that superstition had anything to do with it, as opposed to sheer laziness. There might be any number of reasons for random objects ending up inside walls. Calling it superstition is often another way of saying "we have no bleeping idea". Heather _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 12:58:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HGw5HP008247 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:58:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HGt4Od025468 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:55:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HGt2tM020445; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HGswQU020294 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:54:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A4DC2840070; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:54:52 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A4DC10F0290; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:54:52 -0500 Message-ID: <007901c34c84$7b6c6040$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:57:09 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Marco Polo Game X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mel asked last night what is the swimming game Marco Polo. Here is an explanation of the game: http://www.partygamecentral.com/pgcstandard/gametmpstd.asp?gn=MARCO+POLO The game is very popular all around the world even in the UK, Mel. I found explanation on dozens of website, even some in the UK. This is my 17 y.o. reasoning as to why the game is called Marco Polo: Marco Polo was known for getting lost. This is why the person who is IT (Marco) has to keep their eyes closed during the game. The players venture around the pool because they are to represent the places that Marco Polo wanted to find but had a hard time finding. When the IT person does find a player, it is supposed to be find of amazing. When the players yell POLO, that is the only clue for Marco has as to where to go to find the players. The players are continuously moving even after yelling Polo. The game is a form of tag. My kids, even the college age love to play this game. They spend hours playing it in the pool. I never did find on the websites the reason why the game is called Marco Polo. Now this makes me wonder why is the horse game polo is called *polo.* Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 13:43:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HHhrHP008371 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:43:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HHerOd001047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:40:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HHeqtM029647; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:40:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20305.mail.yahoo.com (web20305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6HHeltM029583 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:40:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030717174045.42350.qmail@web20305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.24.179.208] by web20305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:40:45 PDT Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:40:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Sharon Greany To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Spanish Ropa Question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi everyone, I'm a lurker, and I love everyones input on project. I in the middle of making a Spanish Ropa or sometimes it's called a Loose Dress (1550-1600's) Most of the portraits on the subject only show to about there hip line. So here is the question Farthingale? or no Farthingale? Janet Arnold's Loose gown in "Pattern of Fashion" is German, and I read that in that time period, that region didn't pick up the Spanish fashion of Farthingale's. Some of the English Loose Gowns look like they have a small version farthingale This is the portrait. http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Isabella%20Eugenia%20C.jpg Any Ideas? Thanks Sharon --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 14:19:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIJUHP008443 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:19:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIGBOd005447 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:16:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIG7Mx029304; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:16:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIG3Mx029235 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip140.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.140]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 290036DF24 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:15:50 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:13:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset of Dorothea Sabina 1598 Message-ID: <3F165A9B.3037.110F3FA@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3F15890C.2060209@kabelfoon.nl> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I love her books but no one is without mistakes. > There is a small mistake in the corset pattern. The piece of strap > wich has an angle at one side schould be pointing towards the neck. > When I saw the original corset I forgot to look at many things. I > realised that when I was working on the corset. I wonder how close she > could examen the dress and if the corset was there to. The dress is in > the museum but the corset is in the archieves... We asked Janet Arnold about some of those sorts of mistakes in her PoF books (when she was doing a lecture in Vancouver, BC.) She said that many of the drawings had been done by her students and that she hadn't double checked them, figuring that people weren't going to use them to copy them exactly, but only to use them the way most of us use Alcega: as a general guide to the shape. I had my copy of PoF where I had taken Robert Trump's "The Annotated Arnold" and put in every "mistaken detail" as margin notes. She complimented me on how I must appreciate her because I had taken the time to do that. I hadn't the heart to tell her that Bob had showed me the rather scathing letter she wrote him when he sent her a complimentary copy of his book (which originally was done because he appreciated her work.) Of course, I *do* (as even though she is gone, her work is not) appreciate all that she did and wish she could have lived *much* longer. (But that doesn't mean that I think she's perfect. No one is.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 14:29:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HITtHP008468 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:29:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIQnOd006549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:26:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIQmMx007704; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:26:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIQjMx007663 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:26:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19dDSn-0004D0-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:26:45 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Spanish Ropa Question Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:26:49 -0700 Message-ID: <000501c34c90$fd47ab40$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <20030717174045.42350.qmail@web20305.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6HIQjMx007663 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Very interesting picture....I'd say no on the farthingale in this particular picture, but I've seen others where it would appear they have a small one on. What I am confused about is it looks like she has a shoulder roll on her left arm but not on her right? I realize she has a big puffy sleeve, but it really looks pretty different on her left side. What does anyone else think?? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 14:34:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIYkHP008484 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:34:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIVlOd007196 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:31:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIVdMx011800; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:31:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f31.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIVTMx011585 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:31:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:31:24 -0700 Received: from 129.244.252.91 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:31:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.252.91] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing,was Re: ... Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:31:24 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jul 2003 18:31:24.0495 (UTC) FILETIME=[A09A6DF0:01C34C91] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: AnnBWass@aol.com >Can you tell us which works of his has this info? I just looked him up in >the card catalogue and it was not obvious which of his books might address >this, >except for the one on the history of modern witchcraft. Oops, sorry. The Rise and fall of Merry England and the Stations of the Sun both have discussions of folklore in them - I -believe- the discussion of the Fraxie/Cambridger "coterie" and its effect on local folklore traditions is in Stations. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 14:37:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIbqHP008499 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:37:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIYmOd007557 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:34:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIYkMx014573; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:34:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIYcMx014426 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:34:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip140.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.140]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F2FF6ABFA for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:12:07 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:34:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QEI-how tall? Message-ID: <3F1689CA.30469.A14883@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3F1875E5@bearmail.berkeley.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Well, the people who built the house I grew up in had a habit of > hiding leftover lunch-bags in the walls of the houses they built. I > rather doubt that superstition had anything to do with it, as opposed > to sheer laziness. There might be any number of reasons for random > objects ending up inside walls. Calling it superstition is often > another way of saying "we have no bleeping idea". Along with the same sort of things being said about cardweaving cards before a textile worker got a good look at the photograph taken when they were in situ. Playing cards or religious items were what they were called for years! Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 14:38:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIc4HP008504 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:38:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIZ1Od007594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIZ0Mx014782; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:35:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIYgMx014474 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:34:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip140.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.140]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CE8D6AAB5 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:12:11 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:34:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Extant clothing, was Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QEI -how tall? Message-ID: <3F1689C9.25928.A145C4@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > You know, I'm aware that this is the current belief - and a lot of > people have been -told- that this was the reason that it certainly IS > a reason now, but I haven't seen convincing evidence that says the > reason things were concealed was for superstitious reasons in the > past. I'm inclined to believe that it's not superstition either. I've seen too many things dropped into our walls and duct work (usually by bored children. Especially shoes.) And I *know* that it's not superstition that put them in my walls. I'll be curious to see what people in the future make of the National Geographics that people have used for insulation in their walls over the past 50 years. ;) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 14:41:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIfhHP008543 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:41:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIcmOd008073 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:38:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIclMx017735; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:38:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIciMx017694 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:38:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip140.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.140]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A9736DC37 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:38:31 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:38:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QEI-how tall? Message-ID: <3F168AA5.9916.A4A1D0@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00e201c34c2b$05f43120$d3644ed5@pavilion> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Really that is a good enough reason I guess, but in days when clothing > was valuble it still seem a fairly odd way to get rid of the rubbish, > why build a specical place for it if I read that web page correctly ? But they put it in old wells and other places too (like to fill in Tudor fish ponds). Clothing was valuable, but not when it's worn out or of poor quality to begin with. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 14:47:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIlRHP008572 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:47:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIiSOd008842 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:44:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIhvMx021840; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:43:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIhsMx021792 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:43:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool0221.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.178.170.221] helo=earthlink.net) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19dDjO-00030M-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:43:54 -0700 Message-ID: <3F16EFA1.5CB763B2@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:49:05 -0700 From: Cecilia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Extant clothing, was Re: Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QEI-how tall? References: <3F1689C9.25928.A145C4@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In the early '70's when my ex and I bought our first house, we got to know the retiring couple that had lived in that house before selling it to us. To hear the "Mrs." talk, after their later in life marriage, she was able to persuade him to "find religion" and give up, among other things, alcohol. Now, the version heard from the "Mr." indicates that the "Mrs." could be a bit overbearing, especially concerning alcohol -- but there were ways around that. While we were moving in, my ex was putting stuff into the garage and kept coming back to the house with bottle after bottle of alcohol. There was a variety of sorts, and the bottles all had different amounts left in them. The bottles were found in numerous nooks and crannies throughout the garage. -- Cecilia knitting a new paradigm in southern California pyrfectpup@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~pyrfectpup/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 14:48:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HImtHP008580 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:48:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIhVR7008633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:45:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIdMMx018234; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:39:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIdIMx018094 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:39:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200307171839.h6HIdIMx018094@net.indra.com> Received: from rwcrwbc05 (unknown[204.127.197.115](misconfigured sender)) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2003071718391201400rf1r0e>; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:39:12 +0000 Received: from [198.178.8.81] by rwcrwbc05; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:39:10 +0000 From: eirenetz@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:39:10 +0000 X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jun 26 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWlyZW5ldHpAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= Subject: [h-cost] SCA Event announcement - KWCS X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hopefully I'm not totally out of line posting this information here; perhaps some SCA folks on this list will be interested.... Known World Costume Symposium III is just three months away as of **today**. But the pre-registration cut-off is much closer - July 31! What does this mean? Well, if you pre- register (and write Herrin Katrein a check) before August 1, you can take a full 20% off your registration fees, reducing the registration from $50 to $40 for two days of classes, dancing, three meals, classes, notable speakers, parties, workshops, entertainment, and classes. For more information - and to register - go to www.caerthe.org/KWE . Additionally, any Medieval or Renaissance costume-related classes would be *most* welcome. Teachers will receive an additional 15% off their event fees, and you don't have to be a member to teach; we would welcome any costume historians working in our time period. Now returning you to your regularly scheduled list.... Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 14:50:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIo0HP008591 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:50:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIkuOd009155 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:46:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIkuMx024121; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:46:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f55.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIkrMx024053 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:46:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:46:48 -0700 Received: from 129.244.252.91 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:46:48 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.252.91] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re:Avera Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:46:48 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jul 2003 18:46:48.0776 (UTC) FILETIME=[C7848480:01C34C93] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Lavolta Press >I think one thing some people are missing in this discussion is that _some_ >concealments_ may be ritual and others not. I went through a whole exercise >on some bottles my family found bricked up in a fireplace. Someone kindly >put me in touch with an expert on the things-concealed-in-buildings >folklore. "Witch bottles" are one of the items people used to conceal. >Fireplaces were a common place to conceal magical objects. However, the >folklore expert also analyzed the date the bottles were probably bricked >up, the geographic area where they were found, and if I remember correctly >other factors. The bottles were concealed at least a century after the >practice had ceased everywhere (as far as is known) and it was done in a >geographic area where witch bottles weren't ever concealed anyway (as far >as is known). End result of analysis: The builders didn't feel like >walking out to the trash heap, or they wanted to conceal evidence that they >were drinking on the job. I'd be suspicous myself :) One of the things that we do have information on is a variety of magical and occult practices over the centuries, many of these traditions and practices -have- been written down and follow specific symbolic patterns. 'Witch bottles' fall into this category, and yes, they have a specific contect that they are likely to be found in. You know, I don't have problems with *some* concealments were done for ritual reasons, or what someone thought might have been a ritual concealment, but I have to wonder if the superstitious builders were ubiquitous as they seem tobe be presented, why aren't ALL (or even most) houses so "protected", and why don't we have any records of these beliefs in the old documents (Heck, I'd expect to find it in the "Long Lost Friend" at the very least, which contains at least one practice that can be clearly show to connect baclk to before the Saxons moved to England...) I shouldl point out that I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything - just trying to indicate that the belief about these things being ritual isn't universally accepted. Some people are still skeptical. That's all. I'm sorry for the off-topic digression. marc >So, it's not like you can always assume a concealment is necessarily >ritual. > >Fran > > > > >Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming >http://www.lavoltapress.com >Historic and Vintage Dance >http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 14:55:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HItZHP008606 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:55:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIqdOd009660 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:52:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIqYMx028880; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:52:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f44.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIqTMx028721 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:52:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:52:19 -0700 Received: from 129.244.252.91 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:52:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.252.91] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:52:19 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jul 2003 18:52:19.0446 (UTC) FILETIME=[8C9CC160:01C34C94] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re:Average Height, wa X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "Melanie Wilson" >Really that is a good enough reason I guess, but in days when clothing was >valuble it still seem a fairly odd way to get rid of the rubbish, why build >a specical place for it if I read that web page correctly ? "Building a special place" for it covers a lot of ground, some of which is quite interpretive. Marc _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 14:57:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIvTHP008612 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:57:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIsYOd009942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:54:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIsXMx000741; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:54:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIsTMx000685 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:54:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool0221.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.178.170.221] helo=earthlink.net) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19dDtc-0004Gz-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:54:28 -0700 Message-ID: <3F16F21B.FCFE2587@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:59:39 -0700 From: Cecilia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: average height/muscle mass References: <195B62C492A1D51199350002A589F66E09581EA8@sagemsg0013.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au> <003701c34c75$565b1440$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Depending on the source, some researchers place the average difference in muscle mass and strength between men and women at about 12%, while others put it at about 20%. One interesting theory goes -- all other things being equal (diet, amount of exercise, type of exercise, etc) there would be a 12% difference. However, many children raised before and during the 1900's had many so many restrictions placed on them due to gender expectations that the reality is more like 20%. Personally, I've been seeing more and more girls allowed to grow to their full (or close to) muscle mass potential over the last several years (more sports involvement, less insistence on "girls" clothing which restricts movement, etc). Another fact - I have a friend who is in the process of trans-gendering. While having been born a "he," Chris never felt comfortable as a male. Chris (currently late 20's) is now living as a "she." Beyond the expected changes in clothing, hairstyle, make-up, Chris is also working towards a total, surgical change, which includes taking hormones that decrease testosterone and increase female hormones (estrogen and progesterone). Before making the decision to transgender, Chris had been a car mechanic and really valued the strength that he had, to the point of working out regularly. Currently, Chris still works on cars. However, despite continuing to work out through the changing hormones, she now finds that her strength has diminished by about 15%. -- Cecilia knitting a new paradigm in southern California pyrfectpup@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~pyrfectpup/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 14:58:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIwQHP008617 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:58:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HItLOd010044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:55:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HItKJC001408; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:55:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f101.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HItIJC001296 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:55:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:55:13 -0700 Received: from 129.244.252.91 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:55:13 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.252.91] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing,was Re:Averag Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:55:13 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jul 2003 18:55:13.0417 (UTC) FILETIME=[F44E9F90:01C34C94] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Marc Carlson" > > >I've no idea one way or the other, but I do wonder why else would you >hide > > >it ? I didn't write this (just mentioning it) >Many years ago, when my mother was living with us and my now 14 y.o. son >was >only two, he discovered a hole in one of our walls. He also discovered that >it was a really neat place to hide Grandma's shoes! We never did get them >all out--so someone, someday, will find them and wonder why...some sort of >ritual attached to high-heeled shoes, perhaps? lol Ritual shoe concealments are a complete subset of this field (and the reason I first started looking at them). Marc _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 15:04:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJ4EHP008637 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:04:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJ1HOd010756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:01:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJ1FJC006139; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:01:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f120.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJ1BJC005992 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:01:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:01:06 -0700 Received: from 129.244.252.91 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:01:05 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.252.91] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:01:05 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jul 2003 19:01:06.0274 (UTC) FILETIME=[C6A05420:01C34C95] Subject: [h-cost] RE: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re:Average Height, wa X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: hrjones >...walls. Calling it superstition is often another way of saying "we have >no >bleeping idea". One of the most annoying things I can think of is with the Bocksten bog find, there is an item that servers no clear purpose, but annoyingly might be an amulet, since of course there is nothing else it could be :) (It's a roll of red wooll, wrapped in one but of leather, with some pretty designs on it, which is in turn wrapped in another bit of leather. The top is closed, and the wool is exposed on the bottom. A broken strap was attached). Marc _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 15:08:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJ87HP008644 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:08:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJ57Od011428 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:05:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJ56JC009472; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJ52JC009418 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip140.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.140]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E67086DBF0 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:04:59 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:05:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Growth, menarche, swimming, and body size (WAS: re: Average Height) Message-ID: <3F1690EE.23495.BD2FA4@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20030717073211.0a874008@mail.earthlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >Girls in general do the majority of their growing between the ages of > > 11-13... According to our pediatrician, girls' body are maturing at > >a faster rate that 25 years ago. Most girls are starting their > >period now between the age of 11-13 y.o. > > Hmm. That's about the age I started in 1972; most of my friends didn't > start until about 13 or 14 (and yes, I'm hearing that a lot of girls > are starting at 8 or 9 today). Though to counter the idea of "too > tall" or "taller adult height", one must consider (1) the onset of > menarche usually means the cessation of vertical growth, and (2) the > increasing population of short female immigrants (usually from Asian > countries). Both of these, I think, will contribute to a moderation, > if not perhaps a slight reversal, of the "growing female height" trend > over the next generation or two. Actually, menarche doesn't stop all vertical growth. It just signals the stop of the pubertal growth spurt. In fact, most women can grow as much as an inch *after* high school, which is usually quite a bit after menarche, considering we pediatricians do workups on girls who have not had menarche by age 16 years, which indicates that it is an absolute outside age for normal girls. (That's not to say that some otherwise normal girls don't have menarche until after 16 years, but they are generally the gymnasts, figure skaters and anorexics.) And while we have seen a decrease in the age of menarche, we haven't seen any decrease in expected height in these same girls. They still range larger than they did years ago (which is why in 2000 they released brand new, revised growth charts which had last been revised in 1972.) Interestingly enough, many of the "short" Asian gals are producing babies who are "American" in size. Really throws off the calculations. The endocrinologists (growth and hormone specialists) use a formula for computing the expected height of a child. It is called the mid- parental height. It does assume that both parents were generally healthy and had no dwarfism or excess growth hormone problems. Basically, the formula is mother's height in inches plus father's height in inches (plus 5" if the child is a boy, minus 5" is the child is a girl) and divide that whole thing by 2. It is correct (even now) to within 2-4". Height is multifactorial in genetics. That means that there are several genes which contribute to height. Back in college (undergraduate) when I was teaching genetics, they used to have us show the students a series of straws of different heights (about 10 as I recall). A different set of straws was used to indicate the other parent. Then we took half of the straws from one set and half the straws from the other set, then found out what the average length of the straws was. When this was done on similar sets (to show several sets of siblings from the same parents) it was fascinating to see the differences that "siblings" could have. And how some of the "average" were surprising to the students (but still within what would have been the "mid-parental height.") > >I am really interested in finding some documentation on when > >swimmer's started the trick of shaving all their body hair to > >increase speed. > > At least since the mid 1970's. The boys' swim team, and the wrestling > team, would shave before major meets. For the swimmers, it was to > reduce drag; for the wrestlers, it was to minimize having anything on > which their opponents could grab hold. (Some of the swimmers and > wrestlers even shaved their heads for these reasons.) Probably late 60's as I remember my swimming classmates shaving themselves totally bald from head to foot (leaving only eyebrows and lashes.) > >Another fairly new trick during training is to wear pantyhose... to > >create drag. Even the men do this. So when they swim an event in > >competition, they will go faster without the hose. Pantyhose is something that was not used for that purpose that I can recall. (But then, pantyhose were still pretty "special" back then, not the L'Eggs generation.) > >>My modern instinct tells me you are right, physical size of muscle > >>propablyappears bigger, but I wonder if bigger necessarily means > >>stronger or how it affects the bones ? For instance is a 5 ft 6 inch > >>woman comparable to a 5 ft 6 inch man ? > > Normally a woman has a larger percentage of body fat than a man, so if > they are the same weight, I'd expect the man to have more muscle mass, > and therefore be stronger. Yes, and male hormones contribute to a difference in the strength of the muscles too. Women, no matter how hard they work out (unless they are also taking steroids) won't have the same strength for the amount of work they put in. They don't have the ability to get the same muscle bulk (any more than a pre-pubertal boy does.) It would be interesting to know if a woman of the same height, weight *and* body fat could be stronger or weaker than a man. I haven't seen any studies on that, nor have I heard anything about it during personal trainer sessions. (Nor in the body building magazines they keep on the tables to read while you wait. However, I usually take everything they say with a grain of salt because most of them are still touting things that have been repeatedly proven to be ineffective or dangerous as things to be use. Sigh!) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 15:19:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJJYHP008667 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:19:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJGDOd013146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:16:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJGBJC019745; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:16:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (imo-m01.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJDdJC017260 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:13:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.38.3b50ad6b (4012) for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:13:31 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <38.3b50ad6b.2c484f5a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:13:30 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish Ropa Question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/17/2003 2:27:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, saragrace@earthlink.net writes: > Very interesting picture.... Yes, it is. I like the embroidery down the fronts. Too bad her pearls are obscuring the entire pattern. And it's kinda unusual to see the ropa buttoned at the waist, no? Usually it's done up at the top or not at all. As for the sleeve thing....I think that's just questionable rendering on the artist's side. Is this a kirtle underneath the ropa or a doublet bodice and petticoats? Kirtles can have a modest Farthingale under them. This will help the open part of the ropa spread to reveal the kirtle or gown. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 15:20:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJKDHP008672 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:20:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJH7Od013358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:17:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJH5JC020592; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:17:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJGvJC020483 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:16:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip140.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.140]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D1C26ABE6 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:16:55 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:16:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] corsets & First Aid Message-ID: <3F1693BA.16607.C819E4@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20030717.081839.896.7.Cley@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Could someone maybe please summarize the what to do-what not to do > with corseted people in distress? The SCA is full of ladies in > corsets, and the information could be quite valuable to our First-Aid > people. I didn't save the posts, drat it. If someone is in any form of distress, slowly loosen the corset cords. (Top down or bottom up is not critical according to what they taught us in Pediatric Advanced Life Support. I don't know why they talked about it because it wasn't in the book. I guess they figured that there were still a lot of young gals, like our Goth population, who are corsetting themselves.) Often just opening the corset another 2" is enough to help them feel better. Do not cut the corset off the person unless they are in cardiac arrest already, as you may put them into cardiac arrest. All of the first aid people (chirurgeons) that I know already have this information, however. Other places experiences may vary. I used to have an excellent article (which of course is probably buried in one of my boxes of articles, not in the textbooks where I expected it to be) written about corsets. They were specifically talking about the types of corsets which tend to be worn by the Civil War re-enactors, which have lacing at the back, but have a bar with nubs with the other side having holes going over the nubs in the front. I wish I could find it, as it was very helpful in explaining the effects. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 15:20:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJKNHP008675 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:20:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJGpOd013308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:16:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJGoJC020382; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:16:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJFSJD018909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:15:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-179.sonic.net [209.148.112.179]) by eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h6HJFKaw002147 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:15:21 -0700 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030717121508.02fe9020@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:17:18 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re:Avera In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >One of the things that we do have information on is a variety of magical >and occult practices over the centuries, many of these traditions and >practices -have- been written down and follow specific symbolic >patterns. 'Witch bottles' fall into this category, and yes, they have a >specific contect that they are likely to be found in. > So is it written down what modern construction workers think they are doing if they intentionally conceal items? Is it a prank rather than a magical belief? Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 15:23:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJNTHP008689 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:23:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJKLOd013699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:20:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJKKJC023090; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:20:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJKGJC023033 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:20:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19dEIV-000359-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:20:11 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCA Event announcement - KWCS Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:20:13 -0700 Message-ID: <000701c34c98$746daab0$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <200307171839.h6HIdIMx018094@net.indra.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6HJKGJC023033 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO www.caerthe.org/KWE/ You need the slash on the end to get to the link....just thought you should know! -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of eirenetz@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:39 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] SCA Event announcement - KWCS Hopefully I'm not totally out of line posting this information here; perhaps some SCA folks on this list will be interested.... Known World Costume Symposium III is just three months away as of **today**. But the pre-registration cut-off is much closer - July 31! What does this mean? Well, if you pre- register (and write Herrin Katrein a check) before August 1, you can take a full 20% off your registration fees, reducing the registration from $50 to $40 for two days of classes, dancing, three meals, classes, notable speakers, parties, workshops, entertainment, and classes. For more information - and to register - go to www.caerthe.org/KWE . Additionally, any Medieval or Renaissance costume-related classes would be *most* welcome. Teachers will receive an additional 15% off their event fees, and you don't have to be a member to teach; we would welcome any costume historians working in our time period. Now returning you to your regularly scheduled list.... Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 15:28:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJSDHP008696 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:28:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJPDOd014241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:25:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJPAJC027065; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:25:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJO2JC026128 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:24:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip140.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.140]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 220116FFA5 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:24:01 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:24:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: why not to release corsets quickly Message-ID: <3F169564.30757.CE9938@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000101c34c1d$ac626d00$8828dccb@ewalpole> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Based on the first aid courses I've attended I'd suggest that this > would be the case, it's the same idea if you have someone with a > suspected spinal injury You try not to move their spine, but if they > aren't breathing you need to tilt their head back to give them EAR > (expired air respiration/ mouth to mouth) otherwise the windpipe will > not open properly (I'm sure you know it's harder to breathe if your > chin is on your chest). The advice I've been given is see if you can > get their lungs to inflate with their head in position, but if you > can't then you've just got to tilt their head, better for them to be > alive with a spinal injury than dead. Elizabeth (no, the other one) There are two methods of tilting the head to get air in that we are taught in Pediatric Advanced Life Support. One is for the general population and the other is for people with suspected neck injuries. But merely having distress is not enough of a reason to remove a corset rapidly. Only cardiac arrest is. (As it is especially important in the person in distress to do it in such a way that you don't make things *worse* by causing cardiac arrest.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 15:29:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJTXHP008701 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:29:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJQVOd014437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:26:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJQUJC028096; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:26:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJQRJC027978 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:26:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.159.21a79e0a (15899) for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-m19.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.135]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v95.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID92-3e1b3f16f852115; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:26:10 -0400 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:26:10 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pensic/SCA Fighter Shirts HELP?! MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <599A64E3.266C5091.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lil Sorepaws wrote: >With Pensic right around the corner I find myself somehow volunteered to Oy. :) I would base the shirt/tunic on the St. Louis tunic, etc. The only "modern" nod that I'd completely avoid is the tendency to cut the shirt all in one gingerbread man piece - there's an enormous amount of stress at the armpits, which is the last place a fighter wants it. Instead, a moderately close-fitting sleeve with a gusset will give the person lots of room to move. You could leave the center front and back gores out if you wanted to save time at the cost of wasting some fabric. Personally, I wouldn't bother with french seams, etc - the fabric is going to take much more wear on the surface than stress on the seams. Constance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 15:35:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJZfHP008725 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:35:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJWOOd015197 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:32:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJWMJC002949; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:32:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJWJJC002858 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:32:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessica.webwarren.com (h-64-105-120-98.NYCMNY83.covad.net [64.105.120.98]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by webwarren.com (8.12.8/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6HJVg6B016067 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:31:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030717152309.0ab393f8@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: arachne@pop.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:30:48 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Growth, menarche, swimming, and body size Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kat wrote: >Actually, menarche doesn't stop all vertical growth. It just signals >the stop of the pubertal growth spurt. In fact, most women can grow >as much as an inch *after* high school... >...And while we have seen a decrease in the age of menarche, we haven't >seen any decrease in expected height in these same girls. They still >range larger than they did years ago (which is why in 2000 they >released brand new, revised growth charts which had last been revised >in 1972.) I would expect, then, that they would then reach that final adult height somewhat faster (i.e., at a younger chronological age) than they would have in 1972. Is this in line with, or contrary to, what you have been seeing clinically? >Pantyhose is something that was not used for that purpose that I can >recall. (But then, pantyhose were still pretty "special" back then, >not the L'Eggs generation.) Umm... the generation when women were transitioning from stockings (held on with garters, garter belts, or panty girdles) to pantyhose (held on with panty waistbands), right? >It would be interesting to know if a woman of the same height, weight >*and* body fat could be stronger or weaker than a man. I haven't seen >any studies on that, nor have I heard anything about it during >personal trainer sessions. Hmm. Also, same skeletal mass. Don't want that to throw off calculations I'd like to see that, too. And now you have two anecdotal FoaF stories about MTF transgenders seeing a drop in strength because of increased female hormones, decreased male hormones, etc. Wonder how many it will take to have researchers perform studies to take it out of the "urban legend" category ... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 15:36:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJajHP008730 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:36:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJXaOd015323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:33:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJXZJC004000; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:33:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13405.mail.yahoo.com (web13405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6HJXWJC003951 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:33:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030717193332.23645.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.170] by web13405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:33:32 PDT Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:33:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re:AverageHeight, wa To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20030717073515.59033.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And don't cakes (with ritual marks or otherwise) show up in folklore etc. from various sources? -- Mara --- N Kipar wrote: > Hey, I DO think that cake baking is magic! :-) (snip) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 15:47:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJlkHP008807 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:47:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJiiOd016737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:44:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HJigJC012922; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:44:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from SRVNODE7.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6HJiUJC012739 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:44:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by SRVNODE7.cho.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:44:19 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:47:40 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lynn Downward Subject: [h-cost] RE: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re:Average Height, wa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>From: hrjones >>...walls. Calling it superstition is often another way of saying "we have no >>bleeping idea". > >One of the most annoying things I can think of is with the Bocksten >bog find, there is an item that servers no clear purpose, but >annoyingly might be an amulet, since of course there is nothing else >it could be :) > >(It's a roll of red wooll, wrapped in one but of leather, with some >pretty designs on it, which is in turn wrapped in another bit of >leather. The top is closed, and the wool is exposed on the bottom. >A broken strap was attached). > >Marc > Mom's wrapped birthday present? LynnD (I mean, it could be anything, couldn't it?) -- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 16:47:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HKlSHP009032 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:47:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HKkhOd024533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:46:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HKkdm5004815; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:46:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HKkWm5004676 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:46:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from VALINOR ([65.50.96.88]) by fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.comESMTP <20030717204555.YEVF507719.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@VALINOR> for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:45:55 -0400 Message-ID: <006501c34ca4$7a079290$6401a8c0@VALINOR> From: "Herself-the-Elf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <195B62C492A1D51199350002A589F66E09581EA8@sagemsg0013.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au><003701c34c75$565b1440$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> <3F16F21B.FCFE2587@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: average height/muscle mass Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:46:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [65.50.96.88] using ID at Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:45:54 -0400 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Somewhat related...Awhile ago I saw a program about cognitive differences between men and women; don't remember what it was called, but it was pretty interesting. Most of us have heard the thing about how men are better at spatial awareness, they navigate by creating mental maps whereas women tend to navigate by landmarks, women are better at language-related tasks, etc. Well what I found really fascinating was this experiment they showed where they conducted cognitive tests on a F to M transgendered person before and throughout her hormonal treatments. They found a marked difference in the way she/he responded to tests--before the treatments, her results to the spatial, language, math etc. tests were typically 'female', but after the hormonal treatments the patterns had completely changed and the test results were more like a man's (for example, language skills were down, whereas spatial orientation and mapping abilities were way up). So it isn't just physical attributes such as strength and muscle mass that are being changed by these hormones. *shrug* I just though it was really interesting. -- Maral ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cecilia" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: average height/muscle mass > Depending on the source, some researchers place the average difference in muscle > mass and strength between men and women at about 12%, while others put it at > about 20%. One interesting theory goes -- all other things being equal (diet, > amount of exercise, type of exercise, etc) there would be a 12% difference. > However, many children raised before and during the 1900's had many so many > restrictions placed on them due to gender expectations that the reality is more > like 20%. Personally, I've been seeing more and more girls allowed to grow to > their full (or close to) muscle mass potential over the last several years (more > sports involvement, less insistence on "girls" clothing which restricts > movement, etc). > > Another fact - I have a friend who is in the process of trans-gendering. While > having been born a "he," Chris never felt comfortable as a male. Chris > (currently late 20's) is now living as a "she." Beyond the expected changes in > clothing, hairstyle, make-up, Chris is also working towards a total, surgical > change, which includes taking hormones that decrease testosterone and increase > female hormones (estrogen and progesterone). Before making the decision to > transgender, Chris had been a car mechanic and really valued the strength that > he had, to the point of working out regularly. Currently, Chris still works on > cars. However, despite continuing to work out through the changing hormones, she > now finds that her strength has diminished by about 15%. > > -- > Cecilia > knitting a new paradigm in southern California > pyrfectpup@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~pyrfectpup/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 17:00:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HL07HP014908 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:00:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HKxbOd026388 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:59:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HKxVlv015653; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:59:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6HKxQlv015573 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:59:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 14966 invoked by uid 1005); 17 Jul 2003 20:59:16 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.086954 secs); 17 Jul 2003 20:59:16 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.086954 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 17 Jul 2003 20:59:15 -0000 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:59:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20030717134439.A71269-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Victorian color swatch book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm so excited, I had to share...I just nabbed a copy of a book called "The English Dyer: With Instructions Showing How To Dye 150 Shades On Cotton Yarns In The Hank; 50 Shades On Cotton Wool; 150 Shades On Worsted Yarns; 100 Shades On Animal Wool; And 50 Shades On Silk In The Skein". The book was printed in 1882. And here's the cool part: /every recipe has an actual fabric swatch showing the results!/ Can we say, finally matching up color names with the actual shades? And, knowing if a dye batch came out right or not? Wowsers!! *bounce*bounce* Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 17:07:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HL72HP014926 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:07:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HL6XOd027401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:06:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HL6Tlv022499; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:06:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HL6Qlv022356 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:06:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.18b.1d28ff15 (4459) for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:06:16 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <18b.1d28ff15.2c4869c8@aol.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:06:16 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian color swatch book To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/17/2003 4:00:47 PM Central Standard Time, drea@nospam writes: > I'm so excited, I had to share...I just nabbed a copy of a book called > "The English Dyer: With Instructions Showing How To Dye 150 Shades On > Cotton Yarns In The Hank; 50 Shades On Cotton Wool; 150 Shades On Worsted > Yarns; 100 Shades On Animal Wool; And 50 Shades On Silk In The Skein". > > The book was printed in 1882. And here's the cool part: /every recipe has > an actual fabric swatch showing the results!/ Can we say, finally matching > up color names with the actual shades? And, knowing if a dye batch came > out right or not? > Holy McF**k! -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 17:13:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLDlHP014939 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:13:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLCWOd028182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:12:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLCUlv027632; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:12:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6HLCRlv027581 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:12:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 58643 invoked by uid 1005); 17 Jul 2003 21:12:16 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.454636 secs); 17 Jul 2003 21:12:16 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.454636 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 17 Jul 2003 21:12:16 -0000 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:12:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian color swatch book In-Reply-To: <18b.1d28ff15.2c4869c8@aol.com> Message-ID: <20030717171026.C75973-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Holy McF**k! > > Hey, watch it! I just installed those bars on my windows last week, don't bend 'em. :) So, will I see you up at my place tonight? Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 17:19:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLJ2HP014948 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:19:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLIaOd028958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:18:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLIZlv002464; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:18:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLIVlw002355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:18:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-222.sonic.net [209.148.112.222]) by eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h6HLIPaw022903 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:18:25 -0700 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030717141932.00a9c670@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:20:22 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian color swatch book In-Reply-To: <18b.1d28ff15.2c4869c8@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A > > The book was printed in 1882. And here's the cool part: /every recipe has > > an actual fabric swatch showing the results!/ Can we say, finally matching > > up color names with the actual shades? And, knowing if a dye batch came > > out right or not? > > Well, unfortunately no . . . because the dyes have had 120 years to fade. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 17:23:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLNQHP014965 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:23:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLMpOd029496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:22:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLMnlv006146; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:22:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLMglv006030 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:22:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-237-245.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.237.245]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6HLMDrw027440 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:22:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030717131829.053a0c60@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:20:17 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] corsets & First Aid In-Reply-To: <20030717.081839.896.7.Cley@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Could someone maybe please summarize the what to do-what not to do with >corseted people in distress? The SCA is full of ladies in corsets, and >the information could be quite valuable to our First-Aid people. I didn't >save the posts, drat it. Get them to lie down, if possible, and loosen their corsets slowly if you have to do it at all. Beforehand, remind them to stay in the shade whenever possible, keep their fluid intake up, and make sure they remember to eat at regular intervals. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 17:26:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLQQHP014979 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:26:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLPkOd029977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:25:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLPjlv008839; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:25:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLMklv006098 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:22:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-237-245.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.237.245]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6HLMDru027440 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:22:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030717131507.00e2a250@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:17:19 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corsets and "bondage" (WAS: Re: pirates of the caribbean) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030717072637.0a86c9b8@mail.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>..it seems that the whole "joke" of the thing was directed toward the >>not-so-knowledgeable (read "gullible" ) public who equate corsetting with >>horrible deformities and some sort of male induced bondage/punishment ritual... > >Those of us who were of an age to read some of the news of the period >remember that in the 1970's, a number of women believed that bras and >girdles were garments of oppression forced upon us by dominant (and >possibly sadistic) males who wanted to keep women down. There are corsets, and there are male induced bondage/punishment rituals (and there are female induced bondage/punishment rituals), and they are not necessarily the same. Some people do both, separately, because they know the difference. Others may do one or the other, or neither one at all. The Hippie period, for example, requires no corset at all. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 17:32:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLWYHP014997 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:32:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLW9Od001018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:32:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLW4lv014032; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:32:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLRUlv010146 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:27:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.ac.4457db6e (4459) for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:27:20 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:27:20 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian color swatch book To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/17/2003 4:13:01 PM Central Standard Time, drea@nospam writes: > >Holy McF**k! > > > > > > Hey, watch it! I just installed those bars on my windows last week, > don't bend 'em. :) > > So, will I see you up at my place tonight? > > No can do tonight...the man has to work in Columbus tonight....The weiner. I'll be at Push, wandering around aimlessly, teaching people the proper pronunciation of "nevada". I'll see ya and come up to say "Yo". -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 17:34:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLYVHP015003 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:34:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLT7Od000471 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:29:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLT5lv011459; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:29:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6HLQSlv009404 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:26:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 10776 invoked by uid 1005); 17 Jul 2003 21:26:17 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.068116 secs); 17 Jul 2003 21:26:17 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.068116 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 17 Jul 2003 21:26:17 -0000 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:26:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian color swatch book In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030717141932.00a9c670@pop.sonic.net> Message-ID: <20030717172554.J75973-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Still, it's the closest one can come these days. And they've been protected in a book rather than exposed to sunlight, which helps. Drea On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Lavolta Press wrote: > A > > > The book was printed in 1882. And here's the cool part: /every recipe has > > > an actual fabric swatch showing the results!/ Can we say, finally matching > > > up color names with the actual shades? And, knowing if a dye batch came > > > out right or not? > > > > > Well, unfortunately no . . . because the dyes have had 120 years to fade. > > Fran > > > > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > Historic and Vintage Dance > http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 17:36:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLa0HP015011 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:36:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLZaOd001621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:35:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLZalv016652; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:35:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f33.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLXVlv015072 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:33:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:33:26 -0700 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:33:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:33:26 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jul 2003 21:33:26.0640 (UTC) FILETIME=[0EB57F00:01C34CAB] Subject: [h-cost] Re: hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heather wrote: > > Well, the people who built the house I grew up in had a habit of > > hiding leftover lunch-bags in the walls of the houses they built. I > > rather doubt that superstition had anything to do with it, as opposed > > to sheer laziness. There might be any number of reasons for random > > objects ending up inside walls. Calling it superstition is often > > another way of saying "we have no bleeping idea". My post may kind of take this OT, but if anyone is up for a little laugh, there is a great satirical documentation of the archeological discovery of the Nacirema coulter. This takes place some time in the very distant future and an archeologist is surveying a hotel room from the perspective of not knowing about this culture at all. Our everyday objects such as a bathroom sink or toilet are examined as if they are religious relics and shrines. It's been quite a long time since I read this, but it's always stuck with me and has made me second guess items that are deemed as for religious use or as sacred objects from ancient cultures. I'm probably stating the obvious, but Nacerima is American backwards. And our UK friends can definitely get a kick out of it too. :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 17:39:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLdGHP015028 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:39:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLcmOd001997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:38:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLcklv019169; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:38:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6HLcSlv018892 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:38:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 54991 invoked by uid 1005); 17 Jul 2003 21:38:17 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.938219 secs); 17 Jul 2003 21:38:17 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.938219 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 17 Jul 2003 21:38:15 -0000 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:38:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian color swatch book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030717173809.J75973-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Aww. Well, see you this weekend... Drea On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 LoreleiMorte@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/17/2003 4:13:01 PM Central Standard Time, > drea@nospam writes: > > > >Holy McF**k! > > > > > > > > > > Hey, watch it! I just installed those bars on my windows last week, > > don't bend 'em. :) > > > > So, will I see you up at my place tonight? > > > > > > No can do tonight...the man has to work in Columbus tonight....The weiner. > I'll be at Push, wandering around aimlessly, teaching people the proper > pronunciation of "nevada". I'll see ya and come up to say "Yo". > > -Sarra Wryght > Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html > Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 17:44:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLhvHP015049 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:44:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLhHOd002632 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:43:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLhGlv023350; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:43:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLh9lw023169 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:43:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-222.sonic.net [209.148.112.222]) by eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h6HLh2aw026800 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:43:03 -0700 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030717144317.0306f258@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:45:00 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is this titled _The Motel of the Mysteries_? The illustrated book where, among other things, they show the museum gift shop selections at the end--the toothbrushes suspended from the ears and the toilet seat worn as a sort of torque? Fran >My post may kind of take this OT, but if anyone is up for a little laugh, >there is a great satirical documentation of the archeological discovery of >the Nacirema coulter. This takes place some time in the very distant >future and an archeologist is surveying a hotel room from the perspective >of not knowing about this culture at all. Our everyday objects such as a >bathroom sink or toilet are examined as if they are religious relics and >shrines. > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 17:44:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLiQHP015054 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:44:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLhlOd002690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:43:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLhjlv023732; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:43:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLhQlv023477 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:43:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00428 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:08:39 -0500 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:08:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, jessica stier wrote: > My post may kind of take this OT, but if anyone is up for a little > laugh, there is a great satirical documentation of the archeological > discovery of the Nacirema coulter. This takes place some time in the > very distant future and an archeologist is surveying a hotel room from > the perspective of not knowing about this culture at all. Our > everyday objects such as a bathroom sink or toilet are examined as if > they are religious relics and shrines. "Motel of the Mysteries," by the brilliant David Macaulay. Though it's the culture of Usa that his archaeologists are studying; the Nacerima is from another satire -- I've forgotten whose. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 17:45:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLjrHP015077 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:45:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLjNOd002995 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:45:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLjLlv025023; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:45:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLjHlv024962 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:45:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-022scfairp0127.dialsprint.net ([65.179.32.127] helo=faucet.net) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19dGYu-0005FJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:45:17 -0700 Message-ID: <3F172662.90506@faucet.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:42:42 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] catholic priest hats X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was hoping that someone on the list would have some hints for me. I'm researching Catholic priests in 1935 France for a show that I'm designing. The director has sent me a photo that he likes, which you can see here http://www.faucet.net/costume/priest.html I have no idea whether this is accurate to 1935, but since it is specifically what the director wants, that question is moot. What I need is more images of this hat. I have an image in my head of a black hat with a lowish round crown and a brim that turns up on both sides, which seems to match what I see in this photo, but I can't find any other images of them, and I can't really see well enough in this image. In addition, does anyone know where I might find such a hat? Thanks for any help, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 17:48:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLm8HP015088 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:48:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIULOd007001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:30:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIUIMx010744; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:30:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HIUEMx010660 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:30:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19dDVx-0001i7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:30:13 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:30:04 -0700 Message-ID: <000601c34c91$728ae520$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <3F165A9B.3037.110F3FA@localhost> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] Robert Trump-Was:Corset of Dorothea Sabina 1598 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You obviously know Mr. Trump...do you know if his book is still available? I had heard that he was going to republish it. I have a copy of a copy of booklet which shows a man's ensemble that he created with some of the calculations etc. Is this the same one? ___________________________________________ I had my copy of PoF where I had taken Robert Trump's "The Annotated Arnold" and put in every "mistaken detail" as margin notes. She complimented me on how I must appreciate her because I had taken the time to do that. I hadn't the heart to tell her that Bob had showed me the rather scathing letter she wrote him when he sent her a complimentary copy of his book (which originally was done because he appreciated her work.) Of course, I *do* (as even though she is gone, her work is not) appreciate all that she did and wish she could have lived *much* longer. (But that doesn't mean that I think she's perfect. No one is.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 17:48:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLmDHP015093 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:48:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLlkOd003395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:47:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLlilv026915; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:47:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLlalv026735 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:47:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.9f.3b5cce0b (4459) for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:47:26 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <9f.3b5cce0b.2c48736e@aol.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:47:26 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/17/2003 4:43:54 PM Central Standard Time, fran@lavoltapress.com writes: > > Is this titled _The Motel of the Mysteries_? The illustrated book where, > among other things, they show the museum gift shop selections at the > end--the toothbrushes suspended from the ears and the toilet seat worn as a > sort of torque? OMG! When I was in third grade, I read a Reader's Digest that had an "article" written by a future anthropologist...and had a picture of a model wearing a toilet seat around her neck. I rmember I couldn't stop thinking about it for weeks, and promptly made several time capsules so future generations would "understand". Man, that freaked me out as a kid. I wanna find that article again. -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 17:52:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLq4HP015112 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:52:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLpZOd003855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:51:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLpWlv029609; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:51:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HLpOlv029386 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:51:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessica.webwarren.com (h-64-105-120-98.NYCMNY83.covad.net [64.105.120.98]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by webwarren.com (8.12.8/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6HLpCe2000743 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:51:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030717173900.0ab50008@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: arachne@pop.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:50:15 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] corsets & First Aid Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO kat@grendal.rain.com writes: >If someone is in any form of distress, slowly loosen the corset >cords. (Top down or bottom up is not critical according to what they >taught us in Pediatric Advanced Life Support. I don't know why they >talked about it because it wasn't in the book. I guess they figured >that there were still a lot of young gals, like our Goth population, >who are corsetting themselves.) Actually, ballet students. My doctor's 11-yo daughter is apparently an audition away from acceptance in some rather exclusive ballet school in which the mothers do a lot of the costuming. (We got into the conversation because I was sewing eyelets into an Margo's-Elizabethan corset while waiting for her to come back with some test results.) She says that the girls really like the tightly-corseted costumes, and the way she describes it, I'd say that those girls are into tight-lacing. Given the types of exhaustion and injuries that can be sustained by the physicality of ballet, under hot-stage-light performance conditions, I could certainly see you -- or an EMT -- running across the (very) occasional young ballerina who's passed out onstage, or just after coming off stage, or the one who's managed to fracture a limb from a bad jump (or a partnering that somehow just went *wrong*)... Then of course there are our young maidens (well, one *hopes* they're still maidens!) in activities such as SCA, renfaire, and historical interpretation in corset-wearing eras (Colonial Williamsburg, American Civil War, Kentwell, etc.) who are oblivious to the heat and less prone to take care of themselves under those conditions... until something happens. The same sort of thing may happen with other young performers, beauty-pageant contestants, etc. So I'd say, be glad they discussed it (and that you remember it), pass on the info so others can make use of it, and hope that none of us actually has TO use it. BTW, I think I'll pass this info on to my doc when I see her on Monday. May she never have to use it! Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 18:20:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HMKmHP015238 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:20:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HMKAOd007333 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:20:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HMK8Tb023724; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:20:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta06ps.bigpond.com (mta06ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.138]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HMK2Tb023588 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:20:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clarke ([144.135.25.87]) by mta06ps.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta06ps May 23 2002 23:53:28) with SMTP id HI6WP600.7OV for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:19:54 +1000 Received: from 144.139.223.200 ([144.139.223.200]) by psmam07.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.2g 119/22491223); 18 Jul 2003 08:19:50 Message-ID: <00d901c34cb1$89c928d0$c8df8b90@clarke> From: "Claire Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F1690EE.23495.BD2FA4@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Growth, menarche, swimming, and body size (WAS: re:Average Height) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:19:43 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Yes, and male hormones contribute to a difference in the strength of > the muscles too. Women, no matter how hard they work out (unless they > are also taking steroids) won't have the same strength for the amount > of work they put in. They don't have the ability to get the same > muscle bulk (any more than a pre-pubertal boy does.) > > It would be interesting to know if a woman of the same height, weight > *and* body fat could be stronger or weaker than a man. I haven't seen > any studies on that, nor have I heard anything about it during > personal trainer sessions. (Nor in the body building magazines they > keep on the tables to read while you wait. However, I usually take > everything they say with a grain of salt because most of them are > still touting things that have been repeatedly proven to be > ineffective or dangerous as things to be use. Sigh!) > Well I do remember reading an article about Beverly di Angelo (if that was her name), a female body-builder in the 80's. It said that pound for pound she was stronger than Arnold Schwartzenegger, which I took to mean that if she had been as tall as him she would have been stronger (presumably because she had more muscle bulk). I think it's probably quite possible for a woman of similar size to a man to be stronger, but it probably, as you've said, takes more work for her to get there. It's certainly not universal that any given man is stronger than any given woman, but the height advantage helps. In terms of costume content, didn't corset-making remain a men only domain for some time, because men were considered stronger? When did women become involved in corset making? Presumably when the desire for mass produced corsets meant that their cheaper wages were more attractive? Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 19:02:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HN2pHP015463 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:02:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HN2MOd014253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:02:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HN2KHp027354; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:02:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HN2HHp027237 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:02:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp456786pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net[68.51.39.237](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003071723021201300pcsv4e>; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:02:12 +0000 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:01:06 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Allison Pace To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200307172128.h6HLSdlw011100@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <8C49633E-B8AA-11D7-9622-000393D446D6@comcast.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [h-cost] Drea's Most Excellent New Book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'll be right over... Allison > I'm so excited, I had to share...I just nabbed a copy of a book called > "The English Dyer: With Instructions Showing How To Dye 150 Shades On > Cotton Yarns In The Hank; 50 Shades On Cotton Wool; 150 Shades On > Worsted > Yarns; 100 Shades On Animal Wool; And 50 Shades On Silk In The Skein". > > The book was printed in 1882. And here's the cool part: /every recipe > has > an actual fabric swatch showing the results!/ Can we say, finally > matching > up color names with the actual shades? And, knowing if a dye batch > came > out right or not? > > Wowsers!! > > *bounce*bounce* > > Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 19:15:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HNFAHP015514 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:15:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HNEeOd016069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:14:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HNEbHp005932; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:14:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HNEXHp005863 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:14:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ADD4746001E; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:14:28 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ADD4F20294; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:14:28 -0500 Message-ID: <010e01c34cb9$801ab300$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <195B62C492A1D51199350002A589F66E09581EA8@sagemsg0013.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au><003701c34c75$565b1440$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> <3F16F21B.FCFE2587@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: average height/muscle mass Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:16:49 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO While at the doctor's today I asked what was the average height of males and females. She said the AMA says average males: 5' 10", females: 5' 5" - 5' 6". Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 19:25:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HNPqHP015534 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:25:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HNPMOd017855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:25:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HNPLHp013214; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:25:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HNPEHp013041 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:25:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A05576F001E; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:25:09 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A0551870106; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:25:09 -0500 Message-ID: <011701c34cba$fe301d60$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F1690EE.23495.BD2FA4@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Growth, menarche, swimming, and body size (WAS: re:Average Height) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:27:30 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Kat for answering the questions. I did your formula, and it worked but all my boys except the extra tall one. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 19:43:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HNhjHP015575 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:43:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HNhIOd020372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:43:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HNhGHp024368; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:43:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6HNhDHp024224 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:43:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OuDLfUshxPaltK62JKUapH0=">; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:43:04 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H5BZDSMZ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:43:04 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:36:25 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] corsets & First Aid Message-ID: <20030717.164216.1284.8.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO thanks! :-) Arlys On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:16:58 -0700 kat@grendal.rain.com writes: > > > Could someone maybe please summarize the what to do-what not to do > > with corseted people in distress? The SCA is full of ladies in > > corsets, and the information could be quite valuable to our > First-Aid > > people. I didn't save the posts, drat it. > > If someone is in any form of distress, slowly loosen the corset > cords. (Top down or bottom up is not critical according to what they > > taught us in Pediatric Advanced Life Support. I don't know why they > talked about it because it wasn't in the book. I guess they figured > that there were still a lot of young gals, like our Goth population, > > who are corsetting themselves.) Often just opening the corset > another > 2" is enough to help them feel better. > > Do not cut the corset off the person unless they are in cardiac > arrest already, as you may put them into cardiac arrest. > > All of the first aid people (chirurgeons) that I know already have > this information, however. Other places experiences may vary. > > I used to have an excellent article (which of course is probably > buried in one of my boxes of articles, not in the textbooks where I > expected it to be) written about corsets. They were specifically > talking about the types of corsets which tend to be worn by the > Civil > War re-enactors, which have lacing at the back, but have a bar with > nubs with the other side having holes going over the nubs in the > front. I wish I could find it, as it was very helpful in explaining > the effects. > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 19:53:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HNrAHP015604 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:53:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HNqfOd021888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:52:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HNqdHp000866; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:52:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HNqZHp000825 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:52:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-36-112.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.36.112]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6HNptrw025380 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030717164932.00e2d870@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:50:54 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] catholic priest hats In-Reply-To: <3F172662.90506@faucet.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >seems to match what I see in this photo, but I can't find any other images >of them, and I can't really see well enough in this image. > >In addition, does anyone know where I might find such a hat? I've seen hats like this on priests in older movies. There's one in the Leslie Howard "Scarlet Pimpernell", and there will certainly be others. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 20:04:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I04XHP015624 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:04:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I043Od023454 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:04:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I041XD007550; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11409.mail.yahoo.com (web11409.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.220]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6I03wXD007529 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:03:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030718000358.81500.qmail@web11409.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.166.186.133] by web11409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:03:58 PDT Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:03:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Brainard Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval pins To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200307161351.h6GDpvxS007916@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO well, pulling his pants down is a good start. Jeff --- eirenetz@comcast.net wrote: > Any idea how to get hold of Fettered Cock? The e-mail contact has > bounced since > the beginning of June. I've got a list of things I want to purchase > from them, > but until I can make contact... > > Eirene > > > > --- Beteena Paradise wrote: > > > > Someone was asking about vendors for medieval pins. Fettered > Cock > > > > Pewters > > > > sells two styles. One is a quatrefoil and the other is an > acorn. They > > > > are at > > > > the bottom of this page: > > > > > > > > http://www.fetteredcockpewters.com/page_various_sundry.htm > > > > > > > > Teena > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > h-costume mailing list > > > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > > > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 20:21:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0LcHP015646 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:21:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0L0Od025856 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0KiXD018234; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:20:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0KgXD018211 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:20:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from casamai (adsl-65-69-46-161.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net [65.69.46.161]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with SMTP id h6I0Kf93000655 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <021f01c34cc2$b4bc1fa0$3ce3fea9@sbcglobal.net> From: "Bruce & Nora Mai" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8FE5D49F-B55E-11D7-B3EB-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:18:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] basting spray (was cutting chiffon and other woodgy fabric) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ---- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Meadows" you can just peel it off - it's basting spray, it's removable. > I actually haven't used this with chiffon myself yet, but > if I were, I would probably machine baste the chiffon together while > still attached to the paper (I usually sew chiffon with paper and then > tear the paper off so my machine won't eat it) so that it won't distort > between peeling the paper off and getting the seams stitched. There are basting sprays that simply disappear, you don't have to wash them out; look for Sulky KK2000 Temporary Spray Adhesive. There are also tear-away stabilizers that you should use in place of paper backing (they look like a light pellon), they are used for machine applique work for quilts and such. Sulky makes these in a variety of weights. Hancock's or JoAnn's will have some of these but not the entire range. Higher end sewing or quilting place should carry them or you can always get them online. I used to work in an upscale fabric store and got to try many of these products for display items and can promise you they work very well. Nora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 20:21:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0LiHP015650 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:21:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0LJOd025888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:21:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0LGXD018587; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:21:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0KhXD018214 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:20:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from casamai (adsl-65-69-46-161.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net [65.69.46.161]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with SMTP id h6I0Kf95000655 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:20:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <022001c34cc2$b517ad20$3ce3fea9@sbcglobal.net> From: "Bruce & Nora Mai" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307161947.09961.cathy@thyrsus.com><009b01c34bf6$66816560$d3644ed5@pavilion><200307162037.57739.cathy@thyrsus.com> <00ca01c34c29$de22d260$d3644ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:08:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Wilson" > My modern instinct tells me you are right, physical size of muscle propably > appears bigger, but I wonder if bigger necessarily means stronger or how it > affects the bones ? For instance is a 5 ft 6 inch woman comparable to a 5 ft > 6 inch man ? Size doesn't equal strength - most body-builders aren't all that strong given their size because they build muscle in a different way. Neither height nor weight is a determinate either, your strength is determine by the type and quantity of muscle mass you have. A person of 5'2" (any gender) can easily be much stronger than a person of 6' even if that person outweighs them. Obligatory costuming input: Have you noticed that Bodybuilders generally look terrible in modern suits even if when custom-made (which they almost have to be)? Their silhouette is more suited to ancient styles. Nora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 20:30:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0UFHP015674 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:30:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0PvOd026609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:25:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0PuXD021806; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:25:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web9403.mail.yahoo.com (web9403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6I0PsXD021768 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:25:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030718002553.14720.qmail@web9403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.239.171] by web9403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:25:53 PDT Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:25:53 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Drea's Most Excellent New Book To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <8C49633E-B8AA-11D7-9622-000393D446D6@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ohhhhhhhh!!! Sounds like just what I need, too! where did you nab this wonderful book from? Albra Allison Pace wrote: I'll be right over... Allison > I'm so excited, I had to share...I just nabbed a copy of a book called > "The English Dyer: With Instructions Showing How To Dye 150 Shades On > Cotton Yarns In The Hank; 50 Shades On Cotton Wool; 150 Shades On > Worsted > Yarns; 100 Shades On Animal Wool; And 50 Shades On Silk In The Skein". > > The book was printed in 1882. And here's the cool part: /every recipe > has > an actual fabric swatch showing the results!/ Can we say, finally > matching > up color names with the actual shades? And, knowing if a dye batch > came > out right or not? > > Wowsers!! > > *bounce*bounce* > > Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 20:34:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0YLHP015692 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:34:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0XfOd027698 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:33:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0XdXD026811; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:33:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0XYXE026768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:33:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6I0Y9bh002121 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:34:09 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6I0Y8rh002119 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:34:08 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Growth, menarche, swimming, and body size (WAS: re: Average Height) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:34:08 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3F1690EE.23495.BD2FA4@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3F1690EE.23495.BD2FA4@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307172034.08569.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 17 July 2003 03:05 pm, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: [text cut here] > Actually, menarche doesn't stop all vertical growth. It just signals > the stop of the pubertal growth spurt. In fact, most women can grow > as much as an inch *after* high school, which is usually quite a bit > after menarche, considering we pediatricians do workups on girls who > have not had menarche by age 16 years, which indicates that it is an > absolute outside age for normal girls. (That's not to say that some > otherwise normal girls don't have menarche until after 16 years, but > they are generally the gymnasts, figure skaters and anorexics.) You may very well be right for most, but for me vertical growth *did* stop with menarche--61 1/4 inches at age 12 1/2.... [text cut here] > Interestingly enough, many of the "short" Asian gals are producing > babies who are "American" in size. Really throws off the > calculations. Ah. But are the Asian girls who are producing large "American" size babies married to Asian men or (large) white male Americans? -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 20:51:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0p9HP015754 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:51:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0oIOd029771 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:50:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0oDXD006737; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:50:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0o9XD006671 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:50:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a255.in-tch.com [66.62.107.55]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6I0UqL26524 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:30:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F1744AD.78EF13D7@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:51:57 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian color swatch book References: <20030717171026.C75973-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You might be seeing half the list at your house tonight! --sue Drea Leed wrote: > > > Holy McF**k! > > > > > > Hey, watch it! I just installed those bars on my windows last week, > don't bend 'em. :) > > So, will I see you up at my place tonight? > > Drea > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 21:00:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I101HP015769 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:00:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0xEOd000934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:59:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0xDIx012541; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:59:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I0xAIx012519 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:59:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip149.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.149]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 053757003A for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:59:09 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:58:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Robert Trump-Was:Corset of Dorothea Sabina 1598 Message-ID: <3F16E3D9.5558.2012B37@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000601c34c91$728ae520$6401a8c0@SG01> References: <3F165A9B.3037.110F3FA@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > You obviously know Mr. Trump...do you know if his book is still > available? I had heard that he was going to republish it. I have a > copy of a copy of booklet which shows a man's ensemble that he created > with some of the calculations etc. Is this the same one? The men's ensemble calculation is a separate book. (I think you're talking about Doublet and Trunkhose, as opposed to The Annotated Arnold.) I haven't talked to Bob for a while. And the publisher he was using is no longer being managed by my best friend, so I have no clue whether it's still available through them. (Alfhaurager Press, if I spelled that right.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 21:06:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I168HP015792 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:06:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I15WOd001646 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:05:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I15VIx016326; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:05:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I15OIx016262 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:05:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-28-17.o1.jps.net ([216.119.28.17] helo=pavilion) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19dJga-0001B9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:05:24 -0700 Message-ID: <001401c34cca$ed861cc0$111c77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030717171026.C75973-100000@shell.siscom.net> <3F1744AD.78EF13D7@in-tch.com> Subject: Plundering Schemes - was Re: [h-cost] Victorian color swatch book Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:21:32 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bars on the windows!........... I guess this book snatching will not just involve burglary but now murder as well! Lisa BTW - When's you next speaking engagement? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 5:51 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian color swatch book > You might be seeing half the list at your house tonight! > --sue > > Drea Leed wrote: > > > > > Holy McF**k! > > > > > > > > > > Hey, watch it! I just installed those bars on my windows last week, > > don't bend 'em. :) > > > > So, will I see you up at my place tonight? > > > > Drea > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 21:15:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1FlHP015834 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:15:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1EJOd002708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:14:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1BcIx019845; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:11:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1BaIx019716 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:11:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 39jz301 ([63.139.50.31]) by fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.comESMTP <20030718011130.VGAJ48303.fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:11:30 -0400 Message-ID: <001d01c34cc9$74a4ca00$1f328b3f@shprd.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030718000358.81500.qmail@web11409.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval pins Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:11:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [63.139.50.31] using ID at Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:11:30 -0400 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > --- eirenetz@comcast.net wrote: > > Any idea how to get hold of Fettered Cock? The e-mail contact has > > bounced since > > the beginning of June. I've got a list of things I want to purchase > > from them, > > but until I can make contact... Try this web page: http://skraeling.sca.org/ The Baron and Baroness are also the nice folks behind Fettered Cock. There's even a phone number :-) Susan long-time patron and satisfied customer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 21:16:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1GJHP015842 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:16:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1FuOd002900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:15:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1EXIx021736; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:14:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law8-oe25.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1CgIx020467 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:12:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:12:37 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by law8-oe25.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 01:12:36 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030717074017.84051.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: why not to release corsets quickly Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:13:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jul 2003 01:12:37.0141 (UTC) FILETIME=[AD04B450:01C34CC9] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The Heimlich > is not called heimlich anymore to confuse everybody *laughs* but according to > the teacher this week, it is still done, the difference is, the straddling of > the casualty, once unconscious and lying on the ground, is NOT done anymore, > instead 15 chest compressions are done. > Weird, if you ask me, and the hushed explanation was: political correctness > gone mad coz one shouldn't straddle anyone. No, in fact it is too easy to cause internal injuries when pushing in the soft parts of the belly while straddling. That's why they tell us not to do it anymore. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 21:16:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1GYHP015846 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:16:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1G7Od002927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:16:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1G5Ix022737; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:16:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f49.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1D6Ix020679 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:13:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:13:01 -0700 Received: from 129.244.252.77 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 01:13:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.252.77] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re:Avera Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:13:00 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jul 2003 01:13:01.0156 (UTC) FILETIME=[BB551A40:01C34CC9] X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Lavolta Press >So is it written down what modern construction workers think they are doing >if they intentionally conceal items? Is it a prank rather than a magical >belief? Sure it's written down - it's been written down at least twice in this thread. The trick is trying to figure out whether they've always done it, or only since the folklorists told them that's why they do it. I know plenty of people who've hidden shoes in houses since they've read that it's good luck (or repels witches, or whatnot). And again, no one's said that -none- of these concealments were for ritual reasons - some may be (just as some may well be for pranks). Marc _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 21:27:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1RNHP015870 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:27:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1PjOd004167 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:25:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1PcIx028442; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:25:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1PZIx028409 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:25:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.156] (pm5-156.eos.net [205.133.149.156]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27804 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:25:32 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:18:45 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200307170605.h6H6548v009997@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: menswear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Warning: No history costume content at all. Penny's post on menswear hit home! Over the 4th of July weekend my husband and I went shopping for a sports coat for him. He hadn't bought one in years, because he doesn't need one for work and the one coat he possesses has worked for funerals (the only weddings we've attended in several years are ones he's been in, so every time we thought it was time for a new coat he ended up renting a tux). Anyway, we ended up at a Mens Wearhouse, which is a chain of men's stores in malls. Maybe national, but certainly regional to the east and midwest US. It was incredible! Eight people worked at this tiny store, and when we walked in a salesman grabbed him and started measuring him and pulling things off the shelf. Before we knew it, they had him in a pair of dress trousers and shoes (he was wearing shorts and a t-shirt) and a fine gauge knit sweater. While he was looking at the coats, two other employees were whirring around the store pulling out shirts, ties, and sweaters to show him all the different outfits that he could get with each coat. We bought three, and two sweaters. I hope he will wear them all -- but they were each different and smashing. He is going to do more sales calls with our business, so he can use them for that. It was great! I since found out that my brother shops there, and that he just goes in and tells him what he needs clothes for and what his budget is, and they get him great stuff. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 21:35:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1ZnHP015899 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:35:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1XsOd005108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:33:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1XkIx003489; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:33:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.traknet.com ([64.9.82.131]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1XiIx003472 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:33:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WorkingGirl ([64.9.82.190]) by mail.traknet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-58579U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:44:56 -0400 From: "Margaret Baird " To: Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:33:38 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c34ccc$9d906070$be520940@WorkingGirl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200307170038.h6H0cOjJ027456@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] RE: concealing clothing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mel: What if it wasn't deliberately concealed by adults? What if other people have children like mine were? I had to do some plumbing last month that required taking a wall partly down and I found 14 socks (none matching), 3 pairs of batman underwear (it's been a decade since they wore that kind of thing) and 2 of my bras in the wall. Also assorted desiccated foods, matchbox cars, and 2 stuffed animals. Turns out Bunsen and Beaker discovered that they could pull the baseboard away from the second floor bathroom wall and so they used to casually drop things behind it. Charming aren't they? Margaret Baird _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 21:39:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1ddHP015906 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:39:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1c3Od005649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1c2Ix005862; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1c0Ix005840 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip149.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.149]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A23B6B12C for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:37:53 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:37:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was... Message-ID: <3F16ECEE.5940.224A34B@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > My post may kind of take this OT, but if anyone is up for a little > laugh, there is a great satirical documentation of the archeological > discovery of the Nacirema coulter. This takes place some time in the > very distant future and an archeologist is surveying a hotel room from > the perspective of not knowing about this culture at all. Our > everyday objects such as a bathroom sink or toilet are examined as if > they are religious relics and shrines. This is a classic from the Journal of Irreproduceable Results! Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 21:39:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1dpHP015912 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:39:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1cBOd005684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:38:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1cBIx005930; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:38:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1c3Ix005871 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip149.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.149]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D062E6B10A for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:38:00 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:37:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Growth, menarche, swimming, and body size (WAS: re:Average Height) Message-ID: <3F16ECEE.9684.224A251@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <011701c34cba$fe301d60$0400a8c0@comcast.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Thanks Kat for answering the questions. > > I did your formula, and it worked but all my boys except the extra > tall one. Any Marfan's in your family? That's one of the causes for people to be larger than the midparental height would predict. There are also other causes for it (such as growth hormone excess such as Fred Gwynn the guy who played Herman Munster supposedly had. But they get a typical look to their foreheads.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 21:44:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1i2HP015931 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:44:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1e0QJ005939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:42:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1T7Ix000469; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:29:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1SwIx000306 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:28:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip149.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.149]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 538756A7F4 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:06:26 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:28:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Growth, menarche, swimming, and body size (WAS: re: Average Height) Message-ID: <3F16EADE.25120.21C94FA@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3F1690EE.23495.BD2FA4@localhost> In-reply-to: <200307172034.08569.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Actually, menarche doesn't stop all vertical growth. It just signals > > the stop of the pubertal growth spurt. In fact, most women can grow > > as much as an inch *after* high school, which is usually quite a bit > > after menarche, considering we pediatricians do workups on girls who > > have not had menarche by age 16 years, which indicates that it is an > > absolute outside age for normal girls. (That's not to say that some > > otherwise normal girls don't have menarche until after 16 years, but > > they are generally the gymnasts, figure skaters and anorexics.) > > You may very well be right for most, but for me vertical growth *did* > stop with menarche--61 1/4 inches at age 12 1/2.... Have you been measured accurately recently? I thought that I hadn't grown either, but when I got measured for my life insurance policy (when I was about 40), I was 1/4" taller than I had been since high school (and when I thought I hadn't grown since I was 15 and hit menarche.) It was the insurance lady who told me that they usually find that people are taller than they were in high school. > [text cut here] > > Interestingly enough, many of the "short" Asian gals are producing > > babies who are "American" in size. Really throws off the > > calculations. > > Ah. But are the Asian girls who are producing large "American" size > babies married to Asian men or (large) white male Americans? Asian men. They are also finding that the average height of people in Japan has been increasing since they started eating a more American diet. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 21:44:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1i6HP015935 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:44:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1e0QH005939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:42:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1SvIx000305; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:28:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1SsIx000272 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:28:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip149.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.149]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC2A86A7F4 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:06:22 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:28:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Growth, menarche, swimming, and body size Message-ID: <3F16EADE.7376.21C95E4@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20030717152309.0ab393f8@mail.earthlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I would expect, then, that they would then reach that final adult > height somewhat faster (i.e., at a younger chronological age) than > they would have in 1972. Is this in line with, or contrary to, what > you have been seeing clinically? Seems to be. > >Pantyhose is something that was not used for that purpose that I can > >recall. (But then, pantyhose were still pretty "special" back then, > >not the L'Eggs generation.) > > Umm... the generation when women were transitioning from stockings > (held on with garters, garter belts, or panty girdles) to pantyhose > (held on with panty waistbands), right? Yep. I remember trying to figure out how Uhura on Star Trek kept her nylons up with those short skirts. *She* had access to pantyhose that we couldn't get. (Evidently, based on discussions about pantyhose on this list a couple of years back, they had them on the East Coast long before they hit the Pacific NW.) > >It would be interesting to know if a woman of the same height, weight > >*and* body fat could be stronger or weaker than a man. I haven't seen > >any studies on that, nor have I heard anything about it during > >personal trainer sessions. > > Hmm. Also, same skeletal mass. Don't want that to throw off > calculations I'd like to see that, too. Good point. Men do have thicker bones (and denser depending on the age.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 17 21:49:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1n0HP015953 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:49:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1mZOd006972 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:48:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1mYIx011592; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:48:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I1mUIx011559 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:48:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-28-17.o1.jps.net ([216.119.28.17] helo=pavilion) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19dKMH-0003QF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:48:30 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01c34cd0$efb17980$111c77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing,was Re:Avera Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:04:33 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You know, I can really relate to this, because when I was really little I watched a Perry Mason episode where Perry Mason trapped the killer because the sequence of his cheque writing on his bank statements didn't match with his alimony story. And you know, to this day, I occasionally write my cheques out of numerical order just for the hell of it, especially when I'm bored or if I find the sales assistant snooty. No doubt other people do unusual things for unconventional reasons as in this hidden clothes example. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Carlson" To: Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing,was Re:Avera > >From: Lavolta Press > >So is it written down what modern construction workers think they are doing > >if they intentionally conceal items? Is it a prank rather than a magical > >belief? > > Sure it's written down - it's been written down at least twice in this > thread. The trick is trying to figure out whether they've always done it, > or only since the folklorists told them that's why they do it. > > I know plenty of people who've hidden shoes in houses since they've read > that it's good luck (or repels witches, or whatnot). > > And again, no one's said that -none- of these concealments were for ritual > reasons - some may be (just as some may well be for pranks). > > Marc > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:07:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LF7xHP021074 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:07:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LF6oOd024001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:06:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LF6eHL015759; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:06:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I2lmNb006632 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:47:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6I2arbh002488 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:36:53 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6I2aq32002486 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:36:52 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Growth, menarche, swimming, and body size (WAS: re: Average Height) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:36:52 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3F1690EE.23495.BD2FA4@localhost> <3F16EADE.25120.21C94FA@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3F16EADE.25120.21C94FA@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307172236.52401.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 17 July 2003 09:28 pm, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > Actually, menarche doesn't stop all vertical growth. It just signals > > > the stop of the pubertal growth spurt. In fact, most women can grow > > > as much as an inch *after* high school, which is usually quite a bit > > > after menarche, considering we pediatricians do workups on girls who > > > have not had menarche by age 16 years, which indicates that it is an > > > absolute outside age for normal girls. (That's not to say that some > > > otherwise normal girls don't have menarche until after 16 years, but > > > they are generally the gymnasts, figure skaters and anorexics.) > > > > You may very well be right for most, but for me vertical growth *did* > > stop with menarche--61 1/4 inches at age 12 1/2.... > > Have you been measured accurately recently? I was last measured by my doctor about 5 years ago, and it checks out. Moreover, my mother was 5 foot 2 inches tall, and was consistently taller than me (at least until her final illness and death in 1994 at the age of 79). I remember because my (lack of) height was the only thing she ever teased me about. I thought that I hadn't > grown either, but when I got measured for my life insurance policy > (when I was about 40), I was 1/4" taller than I had been since high > school (and when I thought I hadn't grown since I was 15 and hit > menarche.) It was the insurance lady who told me that they usually > find that people are taller than they were in high school. Oh, believe me, I would have noticed. :-( Though I have to admit I'd have a hard time getting excited about discovering an extra quarter-inch--that kind of difference you can get practically through improving your posture. > > > [text cut here] > > > > > Interestingly enough, many of the "short" Asian gals are producing > > > babies who are "American" in size. Really throws off the > > > calculations. > > > > Ah. But are the Asian girls who are producing large "American" size > > babies married to Asian men or (large) white male Americans? > > Asian men. Interesting. Though even the Asian men likely are also better nourished than they would have been if they had stayed in Asia--and are probably themselves larger than their immediate male ancestors. -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:12:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFCpHP021087 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:12:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFCDOd024822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:12:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFCAHL019714; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:12:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt21.cluster1.charter.net (remt21.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I43J62015730 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:03:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.205.139.124] (HELO Maxwell) by remt21.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 96033118 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:03:14 -0400 From: "Cat Devereaux" To: Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:03:15 -0700 Message-ID: <002701c34ce1$839ef090$7c8bcd18@Maxwell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200307171905.h6HJ5RJE009778@net.indra.com> X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > He also discovered that >it was a really neat place to hide Grandma's shoes! We never did get them >all out--so someone, someday, will find them and wonder why...some sort of >ritual attached to high-heeled shoes, perhaps? Lol Ah, that is not just something little boys do. Part of my family (multi-generation) has been in construction. Future archeologist are going to find at the end of every major freeway section (that was built at one time), things like big bras, panties and sometime stiletto heels. It is a tradition that this stuff goes in with the last load of concrete. It is something management has learned not to mess with... or the construction team will do something to screw up that batch of concrete, and the final bit will have to be repoured again. Further, the same archeologists will be able to date when the construction teams (in a specific geographic region) because integrated enough that the females' opinions were listened to. Only managment tried to be PC and stop the bra going in. The women think it's fine, and sometimes donate the items... BUT the men must add a jock strap or underwear too. I'm not joking... this is dead seriously what goes on during the last pour... and isn't just regional. (couldn't resist so am falling out of lurk mode to share this bit of future history) -Cat- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:13:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFDNHP021091 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:13:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFCfOd024885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:12:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFCdHL020087; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:12:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I4Ef62021159 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:14:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A42CA12001E; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:14:36 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A42C96029E; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:14:36 -0500 Message-ID: <003101c34ce3$705965e0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F1690EE.23495.BD2FA4@localhost> <3F16EADE.25120.21C94FA@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Growth, menarche, swimming, and body size (WAS: re:Average Height) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:16:58 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kat my oldest son married a girl from Cambodia. They have a daughter who is 2 y.o. now. Her doctor is said that she is over 100% percentile on the growth chart. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:16:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFGXHP021102 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:16:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFG1Od025479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFG0tY022639; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I54GEo016636 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:04:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m51.in-tch.com [216.166.191.51]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6I4ivL23734 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:44:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F17803B.F3A7ED73@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:06:03 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Doublets-n-kirtles-n-skirts, oh my! References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030716100559.00b59688@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO She knows two of us--I've never done that to my skirt-and-separate-bodice outfits, either. On me, they've been pretty successful, although I, too, am muddling about in other styles/time periods for the nonce. On the other hand, I've made basic "wench" garb for several friends (okay, _nice_ wench garb--the kind that's got a long skirt, a sleeveless bodice, and a shift), and it's running 3:1 in favor of getting the bodice too short. I think what's happening is that the skirts are shifting to a point lower than the bottom of the bodices--perhaps a function of a different kind of waistline? Mine's unusually high (right under my bust, practically--I've always thought of myself as short-waisted, but the length's in the bottom half of my torso, and not in my legs at all). --sue Dawn Jacobson wrote: > > > Every single person I know who's ever made a bodice AND skirt > >outfit, had to > >put hooks along the waistband of the skirt and the bottom of the bodice to > >make it look right. Why bother with that? > > And now you know of at least 1 person who didn't have to. Me. > > Admittedly, it's been a number of years since I built an English > Elizabethan (I'm doing different times/styles now), but I've never had to > put hooks at the waistband, simply because I cut the bodice about 1/2" > longer. Once it's finished, it's long enough that it is slightly longer > than the length to the bottom of the waistband, and is on the skirt > material (just a tiny bit!) itself. As I'm a firm believer in, "If it > moves, flat-line it; if it still moves, bone it!", I've always lightly > boned my bodices with 1/4" flat steels. The bodice stays put. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:17:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFHVHP021107 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:17:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFH7Od025714 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:17:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFH6tY023500; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:17:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I8IbNw009356 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:18:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h6I8IZp28128.; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:18:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:18:35 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:18:05 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Growth, menarche, swimming, and body size (WAS: re:Average Height) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6I8IbNw009356 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kat wrote: >Have you been measured accurately recently? I thought that I hadn't >grown either, but when I got measured for my life insurance policy >(when I was about 40), I was 1/4" taller than I had been since high >school (and when I thought I hadn't grown since I was 15 and hit >menarche.) It was the insurance lady who told me that they usually >find that people are taller than they were in high school. I swear I grew about " in my late 20s. It was when I was really active in reenactment and was carrying a musket most weekends over the summer. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:17:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFHkHP021110 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:17:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFHJOd025749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:17:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFHItY023628; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:17:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6I8LhNw011060 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:21:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h6I8Lgp28353.; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:21:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:21:42 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:21:21 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] catholic priest hats Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think what you're after is what is called a shovel hat. They were worn by Anglican clergymen too in the 19th century. A Google search on "shovel hat" brings up http://www.hatsinthebelfry.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=Priest+Hats&Category_Code=Theatrical+Hat%2CCostume+Hat%2CMilitary+Hat Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:18:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFIjHP021114 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:18:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFHlOd025834 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:17:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFHjtY023952; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:17:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ICKAiO016247 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 06:20:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a224.in-tch.com [66.62.107.24]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6IC0pL25762 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 06:00:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F17E665.12447398@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 06:21:57 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] testing.... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just testing. Again. --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:19:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFJ8HP021117 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:19:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFICOd025885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:18:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFI8tY024250; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:18:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ICfEiO025549 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 06:41:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a224.in-tch.com [66.62.107.24]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6ICLuL06522 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 06:21:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F17EB55.B3420435@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 06:43:01 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Doublets-n-kirtles-n-skirts, oh my! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Kate. I do earlier stuff, mostly, but it occurs to me that if you want to access a tied-on pocket under your skirts (and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm envisioning those 18th c. pairs of pockets on a waist-thingie here), you could just make a finished access-slit where your pocket will be, and put the skirt's actual opening where it needs to go. I've done front, back, and side-opening gowns successfully, and have evidence for all, so that's not a problem (at least in my time period). I'll admit, though, that the front-opening ones are definitely easier to get into, as I'm usually dressing myself. --sue Kate M Bunting wrote: > > I have a question for those ladies who say they always stitch their > bodices to their "skirts". How do you get into the resulting > combination? Does it assume that both garments open at the back? > > I do 1630s/40s, and as these styles are somewhat high-waisted it would > be handy to have the two parts attached, so as to avoid gaps. However, I > normally make my bodices front-opening (for convenience) and skirts > opening at the right side (for easy access to a tied-on pocket > underneath). I have used hooks in the past, but that means a further > complication to an outfit that's already slow and laborious to put on. > > Comments, anyone? > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:22:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFMmHP021132 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:22:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFM5Od026342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:22:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFM2tY027453; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6IDetTs025846 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:40:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.122] (pm7-122.eos.net [205.133.149.122] (may be forged)) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27144 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:40:54 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:34:55 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200307180138.h6I1cJJ0005985@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: menswear2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry! I sent my earlier post without finishing it. All I was going to say was that I would shop ANYWHERE that helped me find clothes that looked good together. The people at this store really put together great looking outfits, and fit my husband wel. They didn't just grab lots of things they wanted to sell and TELL him they looked good. I'm under the impression that fine menswear stores always used to do this. When did they stop? Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:23:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFNFHP021136 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:23:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFMPOd026390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:22:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFMMtY027740; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:22:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu (kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu [169.147.166.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6IDtwlL004151 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:55:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:55:58 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:55:54 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Mens measurements & Bob Trump X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The men's ensemble calculation is a separate book. (I think you're talking about Doublet and Trunkhose, as opposed to The Annotated Arnold.) I haven't talked to Bob for a while. And the publisher he was using is no longer being managed by my best friend, so I have no clue whether it's still available through them. (Alfhaurager Press, if I spelled that right.) Kat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I haven't seen Bob's book in awhile either but Matt of Desert Torch Tailoring: http://www.deserttorch.com/ worked with him for several years and is now off on his own. At Lilies he mentioned he has a new way to figure the measurements in Alcega. He might be able to help. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:23:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFNbHP021141 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:23:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFMvOd026498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:22:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFMutY028203; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:22:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6IEiflL002075 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:44:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 306ACBEB7A for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:44:36 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F1808A2.5010002@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:48:02 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish Ropa Question References: <20030717174045.42350.qmail@web20305.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I found some simular pictures on this site http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/diary2002/page1.html Greetings, Deredere Sharon Greany wrote: >Hi everyone, > >I'm a lurker, and I love everyones input on project. I in the middle of making a Spanish Ropa or sometimes it's called a Loose Dress (1550-1600's) Most of the portraits on the subject only show to about there hip line. So here is the question > >Farthingale? or no Farthingale? > >Janet Arnold's Loose gown in "Pattern of Fashion" is German, and I read that in that time period, that region didn't pick up the Spanish fashion of Farthingale's. Some of the English Loose Gowns look like they have a small version farthingale > >This is the portrait. http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Isabella%20Eugenia%20C.jpg > >Any Ideas? > >Thanks >Sharon > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:24:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFO0HP021148 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:24:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFNGOd026551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:23:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFNFtY028434; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:23:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6IEl7lL003593 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:47:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OriYaTSQG19zQmWeIXAv6QM=">; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:46:15 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H5DL3J85; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:46:15 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:24:37 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: menswear Message-ID: <20030718.074548.2012.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-38 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Pacific NW has them too. And you're right, the service is incredible. My husband's rather hard to fit, and they did a great job! Arlys > Anyway, we ended up at a Mens Wearhouse, which is a chain of men's > stores in > malls. Maybe national, but certainly regional to the east and > midwest US. It > was incredible! Eight people worked at this tiny store, and when we > walked > in a salesman grabbed him and started measuring him and pulling > things off > the shelf. Before we knew it, they had him in a pair of dress > trousers and > shoes (he was wearing shorts and a t-shirt) and a fine gauge knit > sweater. > While he was looking at the coats, two other employees were whirring > around > the store pulling out shirts, ties, and sweaters to show him all the > different outfits that he could get with each coat. > > We bought three, and two sweaters. I hope he will wear them all -- > but they > were each different and smashing. He is going to do more sales calls > with > our business, so he can use them for that. > > It was great! I since found out that my brother shops there, and > that he > just goes in and tells him what he needs clothes for and what his > budget is, > and they get him great stuff. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:24:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFO6HP021153 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:24:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFNROd026583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:23:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFNQtY028547; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:23:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6IEl7lL003594 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:47:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OriYaTSQG19zStTyLogBslY=">; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:46:15 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H5DL3J9G; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:46:15 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:32:43 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Growth, menarche, swimming, and body size (WAS: re:Average Height) Message-ID: <20030718.074548.2012.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-6,9-37 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Slightly off topic--why would my endicronologist suspect I have Marfan's? I'm tall and gangly and big-boned. Am adopted so have no idea re: biological heritage. Hit menarche just a few weeks before my 12th birthday and reached my full height by the age of 16. Despite that, managed not to have a completely dreadful adolescence, much to my parents' relief. ;) Costume content--of coure all that tall and gangly made it impossible for me to find clothes, especially as a teenager. I bought men's dress shirts for years because it was the only way I could get sleeves long enough! Arlys On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:37:34 -0700 kat@grendal.rain.com writes: > > > Thanks Kat for answering the questions. > > > > I did your formula, and it worked but all my boys except the extra > > tall one. > > Any Marfan's in your family? That's one of the causes for people to > be larger than the midparental height would predict. There are also > other causes for it (such as growth hormone excess such as Fred > Gwynn > the guy who played Herman Munster supposedly had. But they get a > typical look to their foreheads.) > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:24:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFOLHP021160 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:24:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFNeOd026610 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:23:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFNctY028692; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:23:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f121.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6IFVTJ1006012 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:31:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:31:20 -0700 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:31:20 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:31:20 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jul 2003 15:31:20.0565 (UTC) FILETIME=[A35F4A50:01C34D41] Subject: [h-cost] OT - Motel of Mysteries X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Aahh. I'll have to look it up again. It's been far too long (as you can tell from my butured description of the satire). I wonder if I read them both and they've meshed together over the years. Thanks for giving the author's name and title. It shouldn't be too dificult for me to locate again. :) jessica >"Motel of the Mysteries," by the brilliant David Macaulay. Though it's the >culture of Usa that his archaeologists are studying; the Nacerima is from >another satire -- I've forgotten whose. > >--Robin > > > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:24:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFOsHP021163 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:24:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFO6Od026675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:24:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFO4tY029089; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:24:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6IFjqJ1015025 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:45:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net ([67.124.118.50]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HI8005QL914Z9@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:43:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:17:48 -0700 From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: pirates of the caribbean In-reply-to: <3F14CD88.5050205@dandy.net> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030716111121.00b32b00@pop.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 References: <149495193.20030714124843@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:59 PM 7/15/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Hi, All. Just to add a little more fuel to the fire, and then I'll retire >(as they used to say, start the fight and then offer to hold the >coats...). If the Lady was too tightly laced, then maybe she should have >directed her venom towards the cause of the problem..it seems that the >whole "joke" of the thing was directed toward the not-so-knowledgeable >(read "gullible" ) public who equate corsetting with horrible deformities >and some sort of male induced bondage/punishment ritual. If some of you >did indeed gather something else from the plotline, then perhaps there was >more to the thing than first attacked my senses. I am also partially >offended because, as usual, Hollywood has taken a legitimate historical >period, with legitimate historical documentation regarding the lives of >some nautical criminal elements, and made it "jolly good fun". It is very >hard to do any mid to late 17th Cent. or early 18th Cent. reenactment of >any military or nautical type without (especially after such a film) >being bombarded with people wanting their kids to have their pictures >taken with "the pirates", then not wanting to be provided with any real >information of any historical value. It maked the job harder for folks >actually reenacting "The Golden Age of Piracy", or almost any maritime >venture. And besides, I don't think I've ever seen a pirate with mascara >(though, if it helps them get through their day, I say, go for it) ;) >Trying to get off the Hook, Mike T. This should make it interesting for the owner of the Royaliste, as she's now berthed in Sausalito (San Francisco Bay), and he's been recruiting in the local reenacting community for a crew. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:25:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFPKHP021168 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:25:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFOVOd026746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:24:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFOStY029413; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:24:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f20.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6IFtTUi021310 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:55:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:55:24 -0700 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:55:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:55:23 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jul 2003 15:55:24.0109 (UTC) FILETIME=[FFCA9FD0:01C34D44] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Menswear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have to jump on the bandwagon and sing the praises of Men's Warehouse. My husband is quite large. I can't remember his shirt size off the top of my head, but I can't find it in any store except Nordstroms (which I'm not about to pay $200 for a stupid dress shirt he's going to ruin in a month's time!!!!!), the big & tall stores (poor selection and most of the clothes are WAY too big) and Men's Warehouse. I've learned my lesson. If he needs new clothes for work, we go straight to M.W. I don't waist any time trying to find them any where else. The sales people are so fantastic. They really know their stuff! And they understand the customer who is on a budget. They also understand my husbands mentality of not knowing specifically what he wants but he knows what he doesn't like. Very particular about what he doesn't like to wear, with no real details of what he actually likes to wear. I think they are national. At least they are all over the West Coast. They also have a great service to their customers in which they fit the pants, suits, coats, etc. in their store and you can pick it up in the next couple of days and they offer lifetime pressing for suits and coats. This is fantastic for the traveling male. We've been out of town to a wedding and realized that his suit got wrinkled in the trip. We took it to M.W. in the morning and in a couple of hours was able to pick it up pressed as good as new. Anyway, just a very happy customer, no affiliation at all. :) jessica >Anyway, we ended up at a Mens Wearhouse, which is a chain of men's stores >in >malls. Maybe national, but certainly regional to the east and midwest US. >It >was incredible! _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:25:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFPMHP021171 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:25:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFOmOd026792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:24:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFOjtY029620; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:24:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6IGVhUi016128 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:31:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (adsl-67-124-118-50.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [67.124.118.50]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6IGVf95010709 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:31:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030718091610.00b67e28@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:29:15 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] body shaper In-Reply-To: <1284A543-B85F-11D7-AE9A-000393D446D6@comcast.net> References: <200307170038.h6H0cOjI027456@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:00 AM 7/17/2003 -0500, you wrote: >>I'm trying to find (quickly!) an all-in-one body >>shaper that will minimize the bust to wear under a >>(copy) 1928 tea frock. It seems that that was the >>solution for the "woman with the generous figure >>trying to achieve the desired boyish look called for >>by modish fashions," (1927 Sears catalog), but most of >>the ones I've seen recently don't minimize the bust. >> >>Any ideas on where to look? Thanks! >> >>Dawn > >I've tried to solve this same problem, and it's nearly impossible. >Since those all-in-one body shapers are sized for women's figures, it's >not possible to find one which compresses the bust. My first solution >would be to wear a tight-fitting sports bra *over* the body shaper, to >compress as much as possible. Or, better yet, use a 16th or 17th C corset >over a long-line panty girdle. Lace the corset tighter at the top and >looser toward the waist, aiming for the straight up and down look. > >Good luck - and please let us know what you did and how well it worked! > >Allison It turn out that Bali makes one ("Body by Bali") with moderate control that "minimizes" the bust. I just this minute tried it on with the slip and the dress and it works. Now I just have to find an appropriate pair of bone pumps and a bone clutch, and see if I have a pair of ecru gloves. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:26:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFQ2HP021174 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:26:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFPTOd026882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:25:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFPRtY000291; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:25:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6IGsfUi002363 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:54:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (adsl-67-124-118-50.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [67.124.118.50]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6IGsc95006502 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:54:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030718094514.00b65460@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:52:12 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pensic/SCA Fighter Shirts HELP?! In-Reply-To: <599A64E3.266C5091.349D0FDF@cs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:26 PM 7/17/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Lil Sorepaws wrote: > > >With Pensic right around the corner I find myself somehow volunteered to >Oy. :) > >I would base the shirt/tunic on the St. Louis tunic, etc. The only >"modern" nod that I'd completely avoid is the tendency to cut the shirt >all in one gingerbread man piece - there's an enormous amount of stress at >the armpits, which is the last place a fighter wants it. > >Instead, a moderately close-fitting sleeve with a gusset will give the >person lots of room to move. > >You could leave the center front and back gores out if you wanted to save >time at the cost of wasting some fabric. > >Personally, I wouldn't bother with french seams, etc - the fabric is going >to take much more wear on the surface than stress on the seams. > >Constance Uh, if the information in MOL "Textiles" is correct, there are shoulder seams, as the sleeves are cut separate from the body of the shirt (it also means you can cut it out of narrow--24-28 inch wide--fabric). The pattern layout is ingenious--I've used it and had only 1 tiny scrap (from the hole for the head to go through) when I've finished. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:26:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFQIHP021177 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:26:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFPmOd026945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:25:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFPitY000512; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:25:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6IH01TT006566 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:00:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (adsl-67-124-118-50.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [67.124.118.50]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6IGxx95018848 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:00:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030718095452.00b53590@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:57:33 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian color swatch book In-Reply-To: <20030717134439.A71269-100000@shell.siscom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:59 PM 7/17/2003 -0400, Drea wrote: >I'm so excited, I had to share...I just nabbed a copy of a book called >"The English Dyer: With Instructions Showing How To Dye 150 Shades On >Cotton Yarns In The Hank; 50 Shades On Cotton Wool; 150 Shades On Worsted >Yarns; 100 Shades On Animal Wool; And 50 Shades On Silk In The Skein". > >The book was printed in 1882. And here's the cool part: /every recipe has >an actual fabric swatch showing the results!/ Can we say, finally matching >up color names with the actual shades? And, knowing if a dye batch came >out right or not? > >Wowsers!! > >*bounce*bounce* Oh, now that *is* cool! Congratulations! And you're going to share all this lovely information with your friends online, right? ;-D Dawn (doin' the happy dance with 4 new books on 16th century Flanders) Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:27:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFR4HP021180 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:27:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFQZOd027060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:26:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFQZtY001107; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:26:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6IHO9TU024988 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:24:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bently (c-67-168-14-153.client.comcast.net[67.168.14.153](untrusted sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20030718171201014000midbe>; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:12:01 +0000 Message-ID: <009b01c34d4f$f487c700$0200a8c0@comcast.net> From: "David" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030717134439.A71269-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian color swatch book Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:13:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am so, so incredibly jealous! I'd (almost but not quite) trade my London trip for the book! Pam Dotson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drea Leed" To: Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 1:59 PM Subject: [h-cost] Victorian color swatch book > I'm so excited, I had to share...I just nabbed a copy of a book called > "The English Dyer: With Instructions Showing How To Dye 150 Shades On > Cotton Yarns In The Hank; 50 Shades On Cotton Wool; 150 Shades On Worsted > Yarns; 100 Shades On Animal Wool; And 50 Shades On Silk In The Skein". > > The book was printed in 1882. And here's the cool part: /every recipe has > an actual fabric swatch showing the results!/ Can we say, finally matching > up color names with the actual shades? And, knowing if a dye batch came > out right or not? > > Wowsers!! > > *bounce*bounce* > > Drea > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:41:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFf7HP021248 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:41:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFecOd029602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:40:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFeZtY014163; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:40:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6IKMeqV010133 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:22:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.156] (pm5-156.eos.net [205.133.149.156]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20303 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:22:38 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:16:37 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200307170038.h6H0cOjI027456@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-DCC-MessageCare-Metrics: net.indra.com 1108; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: caraco jacket X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh Bjarne, it's lovely! What beautiful fabric! Another fantastic garment from your needle! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:41:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFfkHP021252 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:41:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFfBOd029695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:41:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFfAtY014610; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:41:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40806.mail.yahoo.com (web40806.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.183]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6IKYdqV019450 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:34:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030718203433.19202.qmail@web40806.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.126.157.101] by web40806.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:34:33 PDT Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:34:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Cynthia Corley To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Subject: [h-cost] re:body shaper X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Could you achieve the slim 1920's shape using a combination of shaper and breast binding? I'm thinking you could put the shaper (with modern bra shape) on first, then Ace bandages over, and then a snug sports bra to finish. Would that be too awful/hot/weird or show with your dress? The ace bandage/sports bra combo is pretty comfortable, i'm told by actresses who've worn it when playing male roles, even one gal in her first trimester. ===== An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Gandhi __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:41:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFfvHP021256 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:41:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFfPOd029745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:41:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFfNtY014783; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:41:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ILMaoH025823 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:22:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-97-117.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.97.117]) 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id AGA21366; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:22:28 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <025801c34d73$502e5f60$75614ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307161947.09961.cathy@thyrsus.com><009b01c34bf6$66816560$d3644ed5@pavilion><200307162037.57739.cathy@thyrsus.com><00ca01c34c29$de22d260$d3644ed5@pavilion> <007401c34c5c$ffba2f80$d4e24bab@Dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:26:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Genie >IIRC forensic pathologists can tell the difference between mens and womens skeletons by the pelvic size/differences? The those who say it I must say in the nicest possible way tosh :) It is 'a' pointer only You take several factors into consideration in sexing, but often you are wrong (if they later do DNA) Pelviss(sp ??) of the female (living) are pelvic type 20% have male type (android) 25% have Ape like (anthropoid) 5% have flat (Platypelloid) and only 50% have normal female (gynecoid) > Something to do with childbearing. Childbearing is easier with a female pelvis, but not all females HAVE a female pelvis :) And you can't reliabily tell if a pelvis has born children ! > Also, the length/thickness of the skeleton. Men are generally more robust, or so the assumption goes. But I could cite so many examples of moving goal posts to suit but I will just use one I typed up recently Mel I have finally got the Blood Red Roses book ! Page 47 in the first paragraph of "Assessment of sex" " In a medieval battlefield situation it is to be expected that the majority, if not all, of the burials will be those of males" Could there be a more biased statement than that prior to presenting the evidence ? We then have sexing on the pelvis they give 100% male, as I've said previously 20% of females have typical male pelvii But they have assessed on pelvic examination as 100% male On cranial assessment they suggest three individual have less robust cramia 1, 10, 12 They then go onto say this robustacy is difficult to assess in young men but 1, 10 and 23 are assessed as age groups 26-35, 16-25, 26-35 overall but if you look closly at 10 only his dentition really falls in that age range with other assment being over 23 min, Therefore I'm not really convinced to their youth. In Measurmnt of vertical diameters .... part "Three males from Towton fall into the ? sex catagory" perhaps it is just me but how can those skellies be males and ? sex These are 1, 6, 23 So 1 has two out of 3 indication of non maleness, sexing is based on bias and pelvis in the main I feel. Page 55 height notes 23 and 18 are particularly small. Stature can be an indication of sex too. 23 is 5'2 1/2" and yes 23 was also a ? sex , so possible female if you are unbiased So we have two, possibily 3, who I belive in a domestic grave situation would at least be considered as possible females. Another factor on height p 55 suggests "The stature of the three mature adults from Towton reinforce the latter theory" They were by far the tallest with a statue of 175cm" /But look at the table 5.5 there are several considerably taller 22 at 183.5, (age 25-36)24 179.3 (same age) 33 181.6 (same age) there are others a little taller too The book then sayes "It is probable that the two taller individuals from this group (Towton 8 and 16) were more experianced soldiers, espectially when cosidering their general build and evidence of healed trauma...." This is supposed to support the theory that they were the tallest, more awe inspiring and therefore more experiance. But the big flaw is they were not the tallest ! being 2 or 3 inches shorter that the real tallest in the group !! That they were more experianced due to age & battle scars I could buy, but the rest is flawed This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:42:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFg6HP021259 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:42:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFfhOd029806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:41:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFfhtY015031; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:41:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ILOnoH027482 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:24:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-97-117.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.97.117]) 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id AGA21547; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:24:47 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <026601c34d73$a28c7e40$75614ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <195B62C492A1D51199350002A589F66E09581EA8@sagemsg0013.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au><020901c34c3c$1e8e5920$d3644ed5@pavilion> <200307170710.19762.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: average height Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:29:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >However, I have read that, for a man and woman of the *same* height and weight the strength difference is very modest, somewhere in the vicinity of 10%. This sounds more likely to me > Is he stronger or does he just push the envelope further ? >Don't know what you mean by this. Men have more to prove, ie our culture 'requires' them to be strong, but it does not require this of women Mel# This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:42:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFgDHP021263 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:42:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFfaOd029773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:41:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFfZtY014950; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:41:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ILNboH026652 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:23:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-97-117.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.97.117]) 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id AGA21458; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:23:36 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <025f01c34d73$788b9fe0$75614ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307161947.09961.cathy@thyrsus.com><009b01c34bf6$66816560$d3644ed5@pavilion><200307162037.57739.cathy@thyrsus.com><00ca01c34c29$de22d260$d3644ed5@pavilion> <022001c34cc2$b517ad20$3ce3fea9@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:28:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Size doesn't equal strength I meant height/body frame Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:42:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFgbHP021266 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:42:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFg8Od029888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:42:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFg7tY015382; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:42:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ILSLoH000418 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:28:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-97-117.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.97.117]) 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id AGA21771; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:28:19 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <027c01c34d74$21e66c00$75614ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <0a7801c34c6c$3a4cb370$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing,was Re:AverageHeight, wa Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:32:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Many years ago, when my mother was living with us and my now 14 y.o. son was only two, he discovered a hole in one of our walls The differance as I understand it is that these appear to have been sealed in at the time Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:42:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFgmHP021269 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:42:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFfrOd029857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:41:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFfqtY015155; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:41:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ILQvoH029062 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:26:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-97-117.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.97.117]) 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id AGA21692; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:26:54 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <027101c34d73$ef0eacc0$75614ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <195B62C492A1D51199350002A589F66E09581EA8@sagemsg0013.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au><003701c34c75$565b1440$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net><3F16F21B.FCFE2587@earthlink.net> <010e01c34cb9$801ab300$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: average height/muscle mass Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:31:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >She said the AMA says average males: 5' 10", females: 5' 5" - 5' 6". Pretty similar to my skellies interesting :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:43:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFh0HP021272 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:43:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFgSOd029929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:42:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFgQtY015661; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:42:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ILUYoH001937 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:30:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-97-117.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.97.117]) 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id AGA21901; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:30:33 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <028701c34d74$71298f40$75614ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F168AA5.9916.A4A1D0@localhost> Subject: Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re:Average Height, was Re: [h-cost] Re: QEI-how tall? Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:34:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Clothing was valuable, but not when it's worn out or of poor quality to begin with. The stuff is NOT rags or worn out clothing, it was clothing and shoes. Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:43:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFhNHP021275 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:43:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFglOd029993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:42:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFgktY015995; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:42:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6IN2sOk008756 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:02:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail20.ureach.com (mail20.ureach.com [172.16.2.80]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA27694 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 19:02:54 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-155-200-213.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.213]) by mail20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA27690 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 19:02:54 -0400 Message-ID: <01a901c34d80$201e86d0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8FE5D49F-B55E-11D7-B3EB-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> <021f01c34cc2$b4bc1fa0$3ce3fea9@sbcglobal.net> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:58:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] test X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmm.... Is the list down? I haven't gotten a single message since yesterday. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:43:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFhnHP021279 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:43:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFhNOd000208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:43:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFhLtY016434; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:43:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6J3bT1B000621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:37:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (acty4123.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.249.123]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h6J3bVQe029645 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:37:33 -0400 Message-ID: <3F18BC0F.1080904@dandy.net> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:33:35 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] catholic priest hats References: <3F172662.90506@faucet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-SdV-Metrics: net.indra.com 1179; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. In the US, you might want to try Hatcrafters for a fully made one, or search out hat blanks from theatrical suppliers if you don't. I think Hatcrafters is at www.hatcrafters.com, but I might be mistaken. Cheers, Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:47:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFlfHP021288 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:47:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFkwOd000645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:46:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFkttY019070; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:46:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6JHe0ra020320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2003 11:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6JHecbh006538 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:40:38 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6JHecOi006536 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:40:38 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:40:37 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307191340.37989.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Subject: [h-cost] Email problem? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I haven't gotten any h-costume mail since yesterday. Is there a problem with my connection, or is everyone simply on vacation? -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:48:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFmsHP021292 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:48:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFmOOd000928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:48:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFmMtY020254; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:48:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6K5JpA4004999 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2003 23:19:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.111.25ca3217 (30970) for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 01:19:39 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <111.25ca3217.2c4b806b@aol.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 01:19:39 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Semi-OT: Winter Cloak (non-costume) Interlining/padding X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, the reason this is "semi-OT" is because the cloak I'm making isn't a costume- it's a mundane Vogue cloak. I'm making it out of coat-weight 100% cashmere (fabric.com and a 20% coupon. No full price for me!), and I'm lining it in black polyester slipper or duchess satin- can't remember what it was called. It's pretty and shiny. Anyhow. This is supposed to be my daily winter coat, but my parents are concerned that it will not be warm enough (they seem to be concerned about a lot of things these days. Must be the whole off-to-college separation anxiety thing). So...does anyone have an idea of what I can use to interline or pad this cloak, so that it's warmer but not bulky? It's about mid-thigh length, and I've drafted a hood onto it- it closes in the front with snaps and has hand slits. I'm thinking of some sort of fusible batting, maybe (that way I can fuse it down and then flatline-sew it to either the lining or the cashmere itself), but I have no idea. Ah..help! Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:50:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFofHP021314 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:50:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFlGOp000701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:50:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFLItY026817; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:21:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6IDIiTs012453 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:18:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.122] (pm7-122.eos.net [205.133.149.122] (may be forged)) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20098 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:18:42 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:12:44 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200307171905.h6HJ5RJD009778@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: hidden stuff X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO First, let me say that I don't know anything about concealed things in buildings. I have no opinion of whether or not they are "ritual" objects. But I want to caution everyone to check sources! Just as costume research has good and bad sources, occult/witchcraft/ritual stuff should always be considered suspect, at least at first. Even more than costume research. Much "generally known information" about such things comes from the same highly suspect sources in the 1920s and late 1800s, when there was both a craze for esoteric knowledge and a boom of people claiming to have rediscovered all sorts of lost knowledge -- often, really, by channeling it or getting it through other "occult" means. Many of these sources were later quoted by other people. I'm not saying there isn't any real information on such things! But a lot of any information about folk practices and traditions is just made up. You've got to trace the information back to the original source to check its veracity, even if a professional tells you it's true. Just like costuming. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:52:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFqOHP021325 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:52:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFppOd001393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:51:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFpotY022962; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:51:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6KGhME2028446 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 10:43:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.68.329cbd29 (4568) for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 12:42:59 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <68.329cbd29.2c4c2093@aol.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 12:42:59 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-DCC-Misty-Metrics: net.indra.com 1170; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] silence X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Has something happened to this list? I haven't seen anything for almost 2 days. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:52:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFqZHP021328 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:52:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFq3Od001442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:52:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFq2tY023103; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6KH2MSh008945 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:02:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98638BE6E7 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 19:02:16 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F1ACBE8.1020504@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 19:05:44 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=0 Subject: [h-cost] test X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just testing. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:56:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFuwHP021336 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:56:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFuVOd002002 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:56:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFuVp3026455; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:56:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6L48ULe013980 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:08:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 13067 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2003 04:08:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO castlebooks) (208.166.66.163) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 21 Jul 2003 04:08:28 -0000 Message-ID: <00c701c34f3d$bfe151c0$a342a6d0@castlebooks> From: "Janet Davis" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20030717164932.00e2d870@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] catholic priest hats Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 00:08:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This hat is somewhat similier.. http://nla.gov.au/nla.pic-an22931592 The brim on this one is flatter.. http://www.charitysplace.com/review/review_scarletblack.htm Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http://www.medievalbookstore.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:56:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFuxHP021339 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:56:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFuLOd001959 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:56:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFuKp3026291; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:56:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail1.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.75]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6L3CliM014635 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:12:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) h6L3CilB031424 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 23:12:45 -0400 Received: from ctrlalt ([68.48.121.106]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:12:43 -0500 From: "A.Thurman" To: "Historic Costume List \(E-mail\)" Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 23:12:32 -0400 Message-ID: <006f01c34f35$edeae0c0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Subject: [h-cost] partlets and matching sleeves? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have some leftover linen from prior projects - not enough for a smock, but enough for a couple of partlets and maybe some matching sleeves. That's my question - I've read in more than one source that partlets sometimes had matching sleeves, but this site is the only place I've seen it implied that the sleeves were laced to the partlet itself, instead of to a gown/kirtle: http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_partlets.htm I've already looked through some of my books and have seen no pictures that appear to show lacing of linen sleeves to a linen partlet, and I'm going to pick through QEWU to see if I see any descriptions of such a thing, but has anyone else run across such a thing (either in a painting, an extant sample, etc?) Not trying to get out of "doing my homework", just curious! Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:57:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFvDHP021342 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:57:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFujOd002055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:56:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFuip3026646; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:56:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imf22aec.bellsouth.net (imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.59.70]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LBdcCY016009 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 05:39:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlphaB ([67.35.52.68]) by imf22aec.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.27 201-253-122-126-127-20021220) with ESMTP id <20030721113932.QPRI29366.imf22aec.bellsouth.net@AlphaB> for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:39:32 -0400 From: "Ann Neff" To: Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:39:25 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c34f7c$bfdaea80$5f67fea9@AlphaB> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-DCC-Misty-Metrics: net.indra.com 1170; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] test X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No mail from H Cost for 2 days _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:57:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFvSHP021345 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:57:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFuuOd002093 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:56:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFutp3026752; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:56:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp.austarmetro.com.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LBidCY018399 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 05:44:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ewalpole (dialup-37.46.194.203.acc02-nort-cbr.comindico.com.au [203.194.46.37])h6LBiUpk005415 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:44:36 +1000 Message-ID: <022901c34f7c$cdd2f740$252ec2cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: why not to release corsets quickly Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:36:35 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-DCC-Misty-Metrics: net.indra.com 1170; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Interesting, because I am NOW doing my First Aid at work refresher course >(written exam in half an hour) and there is no such thing as the maneouver you >suggest. I wonder if there are country differences in First Aid. The Heimlich >is not called heimlich anymore to confuse everybody *laughs* but according to >the teacher this week, it is still done, the difference is, the straddling of >the casualty, once unconscious and lying on the ground, is NOT done anymore, >instead 15 chest compressions are done. >Weird, if you ask me, and the hushed explanation was: political correctness >gone mad coz one shouldn't straddle anyone. Yeah rght, if I ever choke to death >I don't give a doodah who straddles me to get the stuff out. > >It's very interesting what you say, I have to ask the teacher in a mo! > >Nicole I think it is almost certainly a difference due to country, I did a lifeguard course in England just over a year ago (including some first aid) & their solution to choking was something like a CPR chest compression only sharper & then if that doesn't work the heimlich maneuvre (what exactly do they call it now?). I prefer the version I was taught in Australia as it seems to me that in both positions (standing up or lying on their back) the person is likely to inhale the object again, that's why you put them on their side when they're unconscious, so they don't choke on anything they may have in their mouth (like their tongue). Like I said pushing on the side of their chest is more feasible if they're wearing a corset than trying to get a fist up underneath the ribs (which relies on the concept of having a soft part there) Elizabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:57:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFviHP021348 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:57:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFvJOd002135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:57:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFvHp3027094; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:57:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp.austarmetro.com.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LBieCY018411 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 05:44:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ewalpole (dialup-37.46.194.203.acc02-nort-cbr.comindico.com.au [203.194.46.37])h6LBiUpm005415 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:44:38 +1000 Message-ID: <022a01c34f7c$cebc6ce0$252ec2cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:54:33 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-DCC-Misty-Metrics: net.indra.com 1170; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: Genie To: Historical Costume Date: Thursday, July 17, 2003 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height >Hi Mel, > >IIRC forensic pathologists can tell the difference between mens and womens >skeletons by the pelvic size/differences? Something to do with >childbearing. Also, the length/thickness of the skeleton. > >Genie Yep men will tend to carry more weight (muscle & bone, fat tends to go round the middle) and women will tend to carry more of their weight (muscle, bone & fat) around their hips. & in terms of skeleton _most_ women will have a broader pelvis than shoulders, & men vice versa. Interesting experiment, kneel on the floor put your hands behind your back & try to touch the floor with your nose, (with a few exceptions) Men will fall over & Women will be able to touch the ground & come back up without much trouble (unless of course you have back problems). this is due to women's lower centre of gravity, because men carry more weight on their shoulders than women. Obligatory costume content, this is why men don't look as good in women's clothes (as women) and women don't look as good in men's clothes (as men) coz they were designed for a different body shape. Elizabeth Walpole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:57:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFvvHP021351 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:57:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFvSOd002158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:57:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFvRp3027214; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:57:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp.austarmetro.com.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LBifCY018421 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 05:44:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ewalpole (dialup-37.46.194.203.acc02-nort-cbr.comindico.com.au [203.194.46.37])h6LBiUpo005415 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:44:39 +1000 Message-ID: <022b01c34f7c$cf96a040$252ec2cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Polo, (wasRe: [h-cost] Marco Polo Game) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:05:51 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-DCC-Misty-Metrics: net.indra.com 1170; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I never did find on the websites the reason why the game is called Marco >Polo. Now this makes me wonder why is the horse game polo is called *polo.* > >Penny Ladnier IIRC it's named after an Indian town/province where the English discovered it, it may be a corruption, or shortening of the original name. I definitely know that Polo was based on an Indian game, but I may have got it wrong about how the name came about (perhaps it's a corruption or shortening of what the Indians called it) Costume content: well they wear clothes when they play polo don't they. ;) Elizabeth Walpole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 11:58:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFw9HP021354 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:58:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFvdOd002199 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:57:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFvbp3027360; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:57:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LCaBT9012359 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 06:36:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.106] (pm7-106.eos.net [205.133.149.106] (may be forged)) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA10242 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:36:08 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:30:05 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200307170605.h6H6548v009997@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Subject: [h-cost] weekends down? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does the list shut down over the weekends now? I only seem to get messages on the weekdays. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 12:25:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGPSHP021471 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:25:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGOsOd007921 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:24:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGOpp3021866; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:24:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFQBtY000798 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:26:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 418011B257B for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:26:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <03fd01c34f9c$671d6ce0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002701c34ce1$839ef090$7c8bcd18@Maxwell> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:26:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cat Devereaux" To: Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 12:03 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building > > He also discovered that > >it was a really neat place to hide Grandma's shoes! We never did get > them > >all out--so someone, someday, will find them and wonder why...some sort > of > >ritual attached to high-heeled shoes, perhaps? Lol > > Ah, that is not just something little boys do. Part of my family > (multi-generation) has been in construction. Future archeologist are > going to find at the end of every major freeway section (that was built > at one time), things like big bras, panties and sometime stiletto heels. > It is a tradition that this stuff goes in with the last load of > concrete. It is something management has learned not to mess with... or > the construction team will do something to screw up that batch of > concrete, and the final bit will have to be repoured again. Ah. So, David's actions should have been an early clue--he is starting vocational high school this year, and plans to go into construction!! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 12:38:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGcYHP021573 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:38:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGc0Od010431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGbup3003118; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:37:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6LFg7tY015388 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:42:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-122-228-33.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@67.122.228.33 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2003 15:42:07 -0000 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:41:42 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Doublets-n-kirtles-n-skirts, oh my! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3F17803B.F3A7ED73@in-tch.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> And now you know of at least 1 person who didn't have to. Me. >> >> Admittedly, it's been a number of years since I built an English >> Elizabethan (I'm doing different times/styles now), but I've never >> had to >> put hooks at the waistband, simply because I cut the bodice about 1/2" >> longer. Once it's finished, it's long enough that it is slightly >> longer >> than the length to the bottom of the waistband, and is on the skirt >> material (just a tiny bit!) itself. As I'm a firm believer in, "If it >> moves, flat-line it; if it still moves, bone it!", I've always lightly >> boned my bodices with 1/4" flat steels. The bodice stays put. I've always had problems with my skirts going south when they're not attached to my bodice. Making the bodice longer doesn't take care of the problem, either, plus it causes it to wrinkle at the waist which doesn't look flattering on me. When I was younger, we'd resort to hooking the skirt to the inside of the bodice to keep them from gapping at the waist. Now it makes more sense to just sew them together, or use a set of points to attach them, both of which are definitely period solutions to this problem. Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 12:48:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGmKHP021621 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:48:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGkpOd011831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:46:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGkop3011257; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:46:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGPAp3022144 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:25:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h6LGHU1j017153 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:17:30 -0400 Message-Id: <200307211617.h6LGHU1j017153@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:13:51 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Semi-OT: Winter Cloak (non-costume) Interlining/padding From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-DCC-SdV-Metrics: net.indra.com 1179; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The standard thing I know of is lambswool. It's a plain natural color wool, sort of loosely woven so there's lots of air space. You could also get a thermal-backed lining, or even use a quilted lining if you want more warmth. -Carol IceGirlNIN@aol.com said: > So...does anyone have an idea of what I can use > to interline or pad this cloak, so that it's warmer but not bulky? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 12:58:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGwrHP021639 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:58:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGwPOd013574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:58:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGwOmK022045; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:58:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12507.mail.yahoo.com (web12507.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6LGfAp3005865 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:41:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030721164109.68155.qmail@web12507.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.192.138.154] by web12507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:41:09 PDT Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:41:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Lil Sorepaws To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200307211629.h6LGTep5025745@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Subject: [h-cost] Washing Silk and SHantung ... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, hope you folks will know the answer to this (I left my Betzina Fabric Savvy at home somewhere)... I wants to make a choli out of shantung silk .. will it be wash-able or will I have to dry clean it? Will the silk lose most of its "shine" ? I have this stunning copper gold and really want to make something cool out of it but only have two yards of 54 wide ... ALso, anyone have an idea of how many yards a pair of harem pants would take? 54" wide and I am 32 waist 39 hips, 30 inseam ... ANY advice most welcome ... And BIG thanks to the person (forgive my memory loss!!) who suggested the St. Louis Tunic for the men's fighting garb!! - Lil the Lurker ;) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 13:05:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LH5HHP021652 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:05:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LH4iOd014571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:04:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LH4gdb027101; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:04:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.188]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6LFuNp3026328 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:56:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-122-228-33.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@67.122.228.33 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2003 15:56:19 -0000 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:55:53 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: menswear2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-DCC-SdV-Metrics: net.indra.com 1179; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Sorry! I sent my earlier post without finishing it. All I was going to > say > was that I would shop ANYWHERE that helped me find clothes that looked > good > together. The people at this store really put together great looking > outfits, and fit my husband wel. They didn't just grab lots of things > they > wanted to sell and TELL him they looked good. I'm under the impression > that > fine menswear stores always used to do this. When did they stop? When it became easier to walk into your local Target and grab the first thing you see and buy it. I read recently somewhere (think it might have been CNN.com) that menswear stores like Men's Warehouse are closing because guys just don't shop there any more. Of course, when I tried to search for that article, I turned up some figures that indicated Men's Warehouse had an increase in profits this last quarter. Argh! Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 13:05:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LH5uHP021656 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:05:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LH5SOd014729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:05:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LH5Qdb027803; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:05:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFwap3028075 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:58:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.192.1d8948ad (24895) for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:58:26 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <192.1d8948ad.2c4d67a1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:58:25 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish Ropa Question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-DCC-SdV-Metrics: net.indra.com 1179; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/21/2003 11:23:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: > http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/diary2002/page1.html > Very nice I love, on the research page, the 2 children's' outfits. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 13:17:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHH7HP021689 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:17:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHGhOd016266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:16:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHGf7e007016; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:16:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f120.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHDHdb003516 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:13:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:13:12 -0700 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:13:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:13:11 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jul 2003 17:13:12.0132 (UTC) FILETIME=[5D63A840:01C34FAB] X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Menswear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny, It would be fantastic if you would share this with the list! It's one of those seven wonders of the world... :) I hope your country western song is doing better! :) jessica >Someone asked about measuring men for suits... I learned to eyeballing it >too. I will look into for you. I am sure I must have it in one of the >books around here. > _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 13:22:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHMMHP021707 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:22:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHLpOd017010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:21:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHLm7e011849; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:21:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHLJ7e011383 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:21:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-202-184-167.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.184.167]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DD252F942 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:54:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:53:27 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need quick 1920s underpinning help Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <000801c34c09$8dad5730$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Another option would be to wear exercise wear underneath, since leotards or yoga togs often try to constrict the bust for comfort during workouts, whereas most modern bras & shapers are going for maximum cleavage. .heather. On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 07:17 PM, Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > Hi Dawn, > > I'm not sure if this will work, but I found one minimizing bodyshaper > at > herroom.com -- > > http://www.herroom.com/Va_Bien,Vab001-701,4.cfm > > It doesn't cover the thighs, though. > > Let me know if you find anything else -- I need one of these too! > > - Kendra > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 13:23:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHNBHP021711 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:23:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHMiOd017184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:22:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHMh7e012625; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:22:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f90.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHM87e012067 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:22:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:22:03 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.78 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:22:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.78] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:22:02 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jul 2003 17:22:03.0169 (UTC) FILETIME=[99E97910:01C34FAC] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re:AverageHeight, was X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "Melanie Wilson" >>Clothing was valuable, but not when it's worn out >>or of poor quality to begin with. >The stuff is NOT rags or worn out clothing, it was clothing and shoes. Um, it's easy to get locked into the all or nothing thing with something like this. Some concealed items are good items, some clearly are trash and rags (just look at the two doublets on the deliberately concealed clothing site, just as an example), and some appear to have been intentionally damaged (this latter is one of the big arguments of it being a "ritual" practice, that the shoes or clothes have been "killed"). Marc _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 13:24:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHOBHP021717 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:24:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHEPRb015786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:23:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGjXp3010146; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:45:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGJ2p3016261 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.195.1d75a57f (4568) for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:18:48 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <195.1d75a57f.2c4d6c67@aol.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:18:47 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: menswear To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My husband, too, used to me a fan of Men's Warhorse. It is neat to have them show you "the looks," and we got ideas of ways to use things they already had. But, on our last visit, we found the merchandise depressingly uninspiring--entirely too many 3- and 4-button suits, for one thing. Also, my husband is now a better fit in a 41 chest, which they don't have. So we have switched our allegiance to Joseph A. Banks, which I think is strictly local here in the mid-Atlantic. He gets a better fit, but it is true that we have to do more of the work of matching ourselves. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 13:24:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHOFHP021720 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:24:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHEPRf015786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:23:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGvwmK021707; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:57:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGeup3005623 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:40:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-202-184-167.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.184.167]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D6942F933 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:40:55 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Average Height Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <00b301c34b7d$e5fb6940$4b120150@Imedia5043> Message-Id: <192DF492-BB9A-11D7-BA04-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are also studies that indicate this is related to living with artificial lighting as well - that is linked with earlier periods and with breast cancer. .heather. On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 02:37 AM, Dawn Wood wrote: > I suspect this has a lot to do with hormones in food as much as > anything > else several of my friends daughters have started theirs by the age of > 10 > > Dawn > Ages Of Elegance makers of Historical reproduction Clothing, Uniforms > and > Bridalwear > http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 > , girls' body are >>> maturing at a faster rate that 25 years ago. Most girls are starting > their >>> period now between the age of 11-13 y.o. This is also backed up >>> with >>> better nutrition. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 13:24:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHOGHP021723 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:24:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHEPRh015786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:23:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGmdp3013049; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:48:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGaJp3001518 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:36:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-202-184-167.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.184.167]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87B6B2F924 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:37:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:36:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval pins Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030716034255.28492.qmail@web11407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <727C7370-BB99-11D7-BA04-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO that was just what I thought when I read that URL ;) .heather. On Tuesday, July 15, 2003, at 08:42 PM, Jeff Brainard wrote: > fettered cock? sounds more like an associate of Mr.S (well known > leather shop in the Castro--I'm sure Heather lives across the street or > something) > > J. > > > --- Beteena Paradise wrote: >> Someone was asking about vendors for medieval pins. Fettered Cock >> Pewters >> sells two styles. One is a quatrefoil and the other is an acorn. They >> are at >> the bottom of this page: >> >> http://www.fetteredcockpewters.com/page_various_sundry.htm >> >> Teena >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 13:24:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHOJHP021726 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:24:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHEPRd015786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:23:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGpHp3015741; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:51:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGkEp3010741 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:46:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be22.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.34]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8999E2629D7 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:46:12 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c34fa7$cf6855c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:47:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Subject: [h-cost] Carako Jacket/ Redingote is updated X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, I am sorry that i have not ben following your topics lately, but i am buisy. I go to Stockholm, Sweden friday night with a nighttrain. I am buisy making an outfit for a lady whom i am escorting to the "Grande Fte a la Nature" at Haga Park in Stockholm. The Swedish society "Gustafs Skl" is celebrating their 25th. aneversary The lady is going to wear my latest work. You can se my progress here: I need to make the laceholes in the corset, make the hem of the underskirt, the hem of the jacket, and sew on the jacket sleaves. The Jacket also needs laceholes center front, where it is laced together. So you can se i have ben buisy lately.......... http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/caraco_jacket.htm Any coments is warmly recomended, also critisism :-) Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 13:24:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHOKHP021729 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:24:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LHEPRj015786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:23:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGlNp3011795; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:47:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LGPNp3022315 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:25:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A3F294E006A; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:25:22 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A3F19B02BC; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:25:21 -0500 Message-ID: <00b901c34fa5$072b9240$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Menswear Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:27:49 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-DCC-SdV-Metrics: net.indra.com 1179; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jessica, I am sorry for not getting back to you all sooner. Everything around my house is breaking or getting hit by lighting. Even my dog came down sick.... kinda like a country western song. That is wonderful about Mens Warehouse pressing suits. I believe S&K Menswear is pretty good too.We have MW on the East Coast too. Someone asked about measuring men for suits... I learned to eyeballing it too. I will look into for you. I am sure I must have it in one of the books around here. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 14:29:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LITsHP021848 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:29:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LITKOd027716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:29:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LITBM3010141; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:29:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LIT6M3010056 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:29:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-202-184-167.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.184.167]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD6892F92F for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:29:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:29:03 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re:Avera Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030717121508.02fe9020@pop.sonic.net> Message-Id: <34753AB4-BBA9-11D7-BA04-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We've found a variety of things in our walls and our friends walls (victorian flats in San Francisco) as we've been doing remodels. The contractor a friend of mine hired to put in a wall in her flat came to her house that day with copies of all the day's papers, that he put in the wall that day. He saw it as leaving something to interest the person that would take the wall down later, and a little sign of himself and the current times, rather like a time capsule. We found newspapers in our walls, too - just pages, not enough to be insulating at all. On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 12:17 PM, Lavolta Press wrote: > >> >> >> One of the things that we do have information on is a variety of >> magical and occult practices over the centuries, many of these >> traditions and practices -have- been written down and follow specific >> symbolic patterns. 'Witch bottles' fall into this category, and yes, >> they have a specific contect that they are likely to be found in. >> > > So is it written down what modern construction workers think they are > doing if they intentionally conceal items? Is it a prank rather than > a magical belief? > > Fran > > > > > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > Historic and Vintage Dance > http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 14:31:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LIVGHP021855 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:31:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LIUkOd027839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:30:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LIUiM3011319; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:30:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pro5.mtco.com (pro5.mtco.com [207.179.200.251]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6LIUfM3011274 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:30:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 21985 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2003 18:22:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO y3r8b8) (207.179.215.167) by ns.mtco.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2003 18:22:42 -0000 Message-ID: <000d01c34fb6$48bb9140$a7d7b3cf@y3r8b8> From: "Sarah Jane Edwards" <1warcry@mtco.com> To: Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:31:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] 1830's undergarments X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, I am new to the list and for a very brief introduction, my name is Sarah, I am 17 and have been reenacting the Civil War (1860-1865) period for about five years. My hobby is researching and recreating historical garments. I strive to be as authentic to the original(s) as possible and I love the challenge of research! I am going to be volunteering at a small 1830's historical town in the coming months and am right now researching clothing of the 30's, specifically the years 1834-1836. I have come up with a lot of information in the past few weeks, but am eager to learn more. First, I have a question about the corsets/stays of the period. So far the original support garments I've seen are corded and not boned. Would all 30's corsets and stays have been corded? Or could boning be added? I've made up a muslin of my pattern and cording doesn't seem to support me very well. Perhaps this is how it should be, but compared to my 1860's corset, there's a LOT of wrinkles and pulls. Also, in pictures of the orignals I've seen, all corsets/stays seem to have a shoulder straps--in some cases being tied to the stay at front in back, in others being cut with the stay. I've heard a lot about the layers of petticoats worn during the 30's to give the desired fullness to the skirts. Would a corded petticoat have been worn to give more body to the skirts, or would the ladies then just have piled on the layers of petticoats? Would petticoats have been flounced, or stiffened at the hem? What would a chemise have been like? Gussets under the arm, or a bias-cut seam with no gussets? Or were both methods used? What materials would be proper to make these garments up in? I'm thinking cotton or linen, but if there are any other possible materials, please let me know! Thanks so much for any help! Sarah P.S. The impression I'm striving for is a upper-lower class, or a middle class lady in a semi- rural setting. :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 14:44:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LIiVHP021870 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:44:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LIi3Od029477 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:44:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LIi2M3022086; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LIhxM3021967 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:44:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessica.webwarren.com (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.17.255]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by webwarren.com (8.12.8/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6LIhf3b025578 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:43:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030721143117.0334ef40@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: arachne@pop.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:42:32 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Menswear Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "jessica stier" wrote: >I have to jump on the bandwagon and sing the praises of Men's Warehouse. >My husband is quite large. I can't remember his shirt size off the top of >my head, but I can't find it in any store except Nordstroms (which I'm not >about to pay $200 for a stupid dress shirt he's going to ruin in a month's >time!!!!!), the big & tall stores (poor selection and most of the clothes >are WAY too big) and Men's Warehouse. Hmm. So far, Frank has had nothing but trouble with Men's Wearhouse. First of all, they do *not* have a big-and-tall department. Pants go up to a size 60, but without the necessary changes in cut (longer crotch depth for tall men, longer crotch length and fuller belly/seat/thighs for big men) that you will find at a proper Big-And-Tall shop. Their shirts run up to a size 20 Regular and they do not have Big cuts, which are wider in the body and sleeves for the same neck size. Second, the quality of their clothes is highly variable. Frank bought two suits and two pair of slacks from them back in August or September. One suit came back OK, the other one came back with the pants way too large (and they had measured both for alterations before he purchased them). The alterations cost almost as much as the garments did. After dry-cleaning, Frank brought the suit pants back in for alteration. The tailor decided that with the amount of alteration needed, he needed to take in the sides -- an expensive alteration which was not covered in the free re-alterations for life package. They came out too tight. So back in for re-alteration again. They came out, seemed to be okay, and the first time Frank went to wear them, the fabric split in the crotch. So now this entire expensive suit is ruined. For the same amount of money, Frank could have gotten a decent (though not stylish) suit with expert alterations at Frank's Big And Tall (no relation). >I've learned my lesson. If he needs new clothes for work, we go straight >to M.W. I don't waist any time trying to find them any where else. I'm glad it works for you. It works for most "normal-sized" people. So far I have *not* been pleased with the value Frank has gotten for his money. >I think they are national. At least they are all over the West Coast. I'm pretty sure they are. >They also have a great service to their customers in which they fit the >pants, suits, coats, etc. in their store and you can pick it up in the >next couple of days Ten business days in our area, about the same as any other place. On the good side, they have a much better selection of long ties than Casual Male Big & Tall does... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 14:44:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LIivHP021874 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:44:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LIhUOd029376 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:43:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LIhSM3021568; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:43:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.nameserver.tv (mail.nameserver.tv [209.144.109.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LIhPM3021526 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:43:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from TEENALAPTOP ([206.148.41.1]) by mail.nameserver.tv (Merak 5.8.6) with SMTP id ABG74101 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:42:29 -0700 Message-ID: <010d01c34fb7$6abf5780$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00b901c34fa5$072b9240$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Menswear Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:37:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Menswear > Everything around my > house is breaking or getting hit by lighting. Strange coincidence. Our house was struck at least once by lightening Friday night. We have various and sundry problems now too. The worst is the A/C no longer works. At 9 this morning it was 82 degrees downstairs. Unfortunately, my office is upstairs and I really don't want to know just how hot it is right now. Teena who is melting as you read this. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 14:51:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LIpTHP021893 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:51:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LIp0Od000341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LIoxM3027503; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:50:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LIoiM3027337 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:50:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A604B260036; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:50:44 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A6032CC0290; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:50:43 -0500 Message-ID: <00f501c34fb9$552a85a0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Menswear Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:53:10 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jessica, I will when I get time to find the book. BTW, S&K and Men's Warehouse are opening new stores in our area. With the fashion industry hurting financially, we have to huge *fashion malls* (new name) this autumn. I do have online some measurements for 1910 men's coats at: http://www.costumegallery.com/1910/Men/Suits/ Just click on measurements. Unfortunately these are lengths and not chest measurements. Today, I discovered our main TV was hit by lighting Friday night. Everyone was so upset yesterday because the phones were hit by lighting that they forgot to tell me about the TV. So the phones and my kinda new frig (that decided to die Thursday night) are getting fixed tomorrow. Our cable for the TV and internet was also hit, but that is fixed now. I hope we have finished our country western song saga. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 14:53:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LIrBHP021896 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:53:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LIqjOd000537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:52:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LIqiM3028901; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:52:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LIqbM3028814 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:52:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A67510350070; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:52:37 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A6742D70290; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:52:36 -0500 Message-ID: <00fa01c34fb9$9858b400$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <195.1d75a57f.2c4d6c67@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: menswear Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:55:03 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ann, I know they have Joseph Banks in Richmond and Virginia Beach. I listen to their classy ads on the radio! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 15:01:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LJ10HP021918 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:01:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LJ0QOd001651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:00:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LJ0MhS005129; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:00:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LIxbhS004395 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:59:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A81940D006C; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:59:37 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A8182EA0290; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:59:36 -0500 Message-ID: <00ff01c34fba$92911980$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00b901c34fa5$072b9240$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <010d01c34fb7$6abf5780$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Menswear Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:02:02 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Teena, We had to bad storms Wed. & Fri. night. We were on the porch Wed. night and saw *God*.... when it hits so close that you see the bright light at the end of tunnel. We lost our downstairs air conditioner to a power surge a couple of years ago. Our homeowners insurance covered it then. Then the same A/C died again last month. It is still under warranty for parts but not labor. I guess when I get my George Bush money next month, I can afford to get all these things fixed that are not covered under warranties. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 15:04:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LJ4qHP021926 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:04:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LJ4POd002203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:04:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LJ4NhS008449; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:04:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LJ4KhS008319 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:04:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A92FB1C006A; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:04:15 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A92E15302AA; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:04:14 -0500 Message-ID: <010401c34fbb$38385380$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030721143117.0334ef40@mail.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Menswear Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:06:41 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If anyone wants to give it a try we have a nice men's specialty shop called Franco's that caters to men. http://www.francos.com/men.htm They have been around for 30 years. It is one of *the places* for men to shop locally. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 15:05:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LJ5fHP021931 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:05:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LJ5GOd002362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:05:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LJ5EhS009243; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:05:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LJ5BhS009115 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:05:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessica.webwarren.com (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.17.255]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by webwarren.com (8.12.8/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6LJ53Sw005493 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:05:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030721150029.0b000db8@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: arachne@pop.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:03:53 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Doublets-n-kirtles-n-skirts, oh my! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote: >...I've made basic "wench" garb for several friends (okay, _nice_ wench >garb--the kind that's got a long skirt, a sleeveless bodice, and a shift), >and it's running 3:1 in favor of getting the bodice too short. I think >what's >happening is that the skirts are shifting to a point lower than the bottom >of the bodices--perhaps a function of a different kind of waistline? To at least some degree, it's a function of the fabric (even interfaced to the hilt!) stretching out as you wear it. If I wear a skirt-only skirt and a bodice, by the end of the day the skirt that *was* very tight around my waist hangs about 2" lower down on my torso. Making gowns and kirtles rather than skirts helps the situation considerably :) Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 15:06:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LJ6XHP021935 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:06:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LJ5uOd002528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:05:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LJ5shS009913; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:05:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LJ5phS009798 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:05:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessica.webwarren.com (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.17.255]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by webwarren.com (8.12.8/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6LJ5i5W005851 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:05:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030721144934.0aff7768@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: arachne@pop.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:04:35 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] The corset release thread, and pediatric cases X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, all -- and especially Kat! I passed on the info to my doctor this morning; she was appreciative of the info, and that I had recalled that those ballet students could easily become victims of the tight-corset-and-pass-out syndrome. It's something she will keep in mind, and that we both hope she never has to use! Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 15:46:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LJkkHP022107 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:46:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LJkAOd007809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:46:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LJk7hS013737; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:46:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LJk3hS013609 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:46:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6LJmAjp010857 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:48:11 -0700 Message-ID: <3F1C41B5.7040107@misc.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:40:37 -0700 From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@net.indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] who wants CD's for their project??? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings to the Liste.... I know this subject has made the rounds on this list _at least_ twice now but I need to know who it was that needed CD's for their project(s). I have a pretty healthy stack looking for an artistic home. You can e-mail me privately so you're not annoying everyone the way I am!!! Thanks for your indulgence, Theresa Eacker _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 16:18:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LKI2HP022202 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:18:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LKHVOd012245 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:17:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LKHRe3010263; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:17:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LKHMe3010191 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:17:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h6LKHL1j028146 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:17:21 -0400 Message-Id: <200307212017.h6LKHL1j028146@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:13:42 -0000 To: Historical Costume From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 Subject: [h-cost] Mens Ties X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Speaking of menswear... A friend was just asking about the origin of the modern necktie. How did it develop into the current shape? (not counting the various widenings and narrowings over the years) Was there any purpose tot he current configuration, to hide shirt buttons or anything like that? -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 16:29:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LKTrHP022237 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:29:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LKTROd013812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:29:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LKTPe3020859; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:29:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LKTLe3020769 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:29:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD20112B0070; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:29:20 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD20C902D0; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:29:20 -0500 Message-ID: <01d401c34fc7$15678d60$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307212017.h6LKHL1j028146@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mens Ties Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:31:36 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Carol, I don't know the history, but I have the funniest website link for ties.... called KNOT, Kollectors of Nasty Old Ties: http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/4026/ I think all our fathers are members of this site. OT: Carol, can you please write the owner of THLS and let him know that I am not receiving the messages from the list. I promise wasn't a bad girl. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 16:48:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LKmxHP022283 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:48:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LKlwOd016266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:47:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LKlpe3005970; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:47:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LKlke3005881 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:47:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-009scfairp0339.dialsprint.net ([63.189.145.85] helo=faucet.net) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ehZR-0000KZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:47:45 -0700 Message-ID: <3F1C5ED8.2060204@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:44:56 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] catholic priest hats References: <4.3.1.2.20030717164932.00e2d870@mail.frys.com> <00c701c34f3d$bfe151c0$a342a6d0@castlebooks> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks to all who have replied about these dratted hats! That gives me a much better idea of what I'm looking for. Always a fan of this list and its wonderful contributors, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 17:16:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LLGmHP022378 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:16:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LLGFOd020122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:16:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LLGEPg028909; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:16:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6LLG7Pg028807 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:16:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 16903 invoked by uid 1005); 21 Jul 2003 21:15:56 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.08019 secs); 21 Jul 2003 21:15:56 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.08019 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 21 Jul 2003 21:15:56 -0000 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:16:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] partlets and matching sleeves? In-Reply-To: <006f01c34f35$edeae0c0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Message-ID: <20030721171226.F84522-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > That's my question - I've read in more than one source that partlets > sometimes had matching sleeves, but this site is the only place I've seen it > implied that the sleeves were laced to the partlet itself, instead of to a > gown/kirtle: > > http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_partlets.htm > > I've already looked through some of my books and have seen no pictures that > appear to show lacing of linen sleeves to a linen partlet, and I'm going to > pick through QEWU to see if I see any descriptions of such a thing, but has > anyone else run across such a thing (either in a painting, an extant sample, > etc?) Not trying to get out of "doing my homework", just curious! I recently came across several listings for partlets as separate from sleeves in QE's wardrobe accounts. They start becoming common in 1576 or so, and are listed as an integral part of a French Gown ensemble ("Bodies, partelett and slevis...") The sleeves are described as separate items, though often described as decorated in a fashion similar to the partlet. Given the known construction mechanisms of the day, I'd say the sleeves were laced into the gown, rather than attached to the partlet. Happy stitching, Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 17:34:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LLYjHP022481 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:34:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LLYFOd022931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:34:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LLYBPg013535; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:34:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LLY6Pg013424 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:34:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030721213404.KAUF4771.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:34:04 +0100 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030721223200.00d6d218@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:34:05 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mens Ties In-Reply-To: <200307212017.h6LKHL1j028146@jefferson.patriot.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-5A7346CA; boundary="=======77BD322B=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======77BD322B======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-5A7346CA; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 20:13 21/07/2003 +0000, you wrote: >A friend was just asking about the origin of the modern necktie. How did >it develop into the current shape? (not counting the various widenings and >narrowings over the years) Was there any purpose tot he current >configuration, >to hide shirt buttons or anything like that? It's a development of the stock and cravat, but these items weren't originally worn together. The stiff stock was split at the front when the shirt was fastened by buttons instead of ties, sometime in the early to mid nineteenth century, and the wide cravat was reduced in size. In the 18th century there was a fashion for a 'solitaire,' or a thin black ribbon, left from the bag wig or queue at the back, drawn forward to tie over the stock in front. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======77BD322B======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======77BD322B=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 18:28:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LMStHP022580 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:28:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LMSNOd003399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:28:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LMSLZG000128; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:28:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (sea1-f13.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LMSHZG029933 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:28:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:28:11 -0700 Received: from 151.199.131.148 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:28:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.131.148] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Doublets-n-kirtles-n-skirts, oh my! Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:28:11 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jul 2003 22:28:11.0629 (UTC) FILETIME=[5E5E09D0:01C34FD7] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I made a 1860's dress where the skirt was pleated into the waistband (as usual) with a left side opening, and the front-opening bodice was sewn to the waistband from the left side, around the back, to the front. So you put on the ensemble, fasten the skirt, and then button (or hook) the bodice. Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice. > >Kate M Bunting wrote: > > > > I have a question for those ladies who say they always stitch their > > bodices to their "skirts". How do you get into the resulting > > combination? Does it assume that both garments open at the back? > > > > I do 1630s/40s, and as these styles are somewhat high-waisted it would > > be handy to have the two parts attached, so as to avoid gaps. However, I > > normally make my bodices front-opening (for convenience) and skirts > > opening at the right side (for easy access to a tied-on pocket > > underneath). I have used hooks in the past, but that means a further > > complication to an outfit that's already slow and laborious to put on. > > > > Comments, anyone? > > > > Kate Bunting > > Library, University of Derby > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 19:09:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LN9NHP022698 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:09:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LN8wOd008439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:08:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LN8u1N001344; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:08:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LN8r1N001283 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:08:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030721230852.EHKM18592.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:08:52 +0100 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030722000832.00dd6eb0@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:08:51 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] Doublets-n-kirtles-n-skirts, oh my! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-727B2716; boundary="=======6AA43DA4=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======6AA43DA4======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-727B2716; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 18:28 21/07/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I made a 1860's dress where the skirt was pleated into the waistband (as >usual) with a left side opening, and the front-opening bodice was sewn to >the waistband from the left side, around the back, to the front. So you >put on the ensemble, fasten the skirt, and then button (or hook) the bodice. Nothing's new is it? I used to have an Yves St Laurent dress that did that. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======6AA43DA4======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======6AA43DA4=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 19:22:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LNMWHP022723 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:22:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LNLxOd010158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LNLv1N010768; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:21:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LNLt1N010746 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:21:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.152] (pm5-152.eos.net [205.133.149.152]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14400 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:21:53 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:15:48 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200307212134.h6LLYdPh013983@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: KNOT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for posting the tie link! http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/4026/dali.html Who knew that Salvador Dali had his own line of neckties? Penny, if you don't have a link to this site, you should! (From the home page they are on the Hall of Fame section under Salvador Dali). Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 19:22:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LNMgHP022726 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:22:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LNMGOd010218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:22:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LNMF1N010995; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:22:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LNMC1N010951 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:22:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (adsl-67-124-118-50.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [67.124.118.50])h6LNM6vj016114 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:22:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030721161651.00b30f50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:19:37 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carako Jacket/ Redingote is updated In-Reply-To: <000701c34fa7$cf6855c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h6LNMgHP022726 Status: RO At 06:47 PM 7/21/2003 +0200, you wrote: >Hello, >I am sorry that i have not ben following your topics lately, but i am buisy. >I go to Stockholm, Sweden friday night with a nighttrain. >I am buisy making an outfit for a lady whom i am escorting to the "Grande >Fte a la Nature" at Haga Park in Stockholm. The Swedish society "Gustafs >Skl" is celebrating their 25th. aneversary >The lady is going to wear my latest work. You can se my progress here: >I need to make the laceholes in the corset, make the hem of the underskirt, >the hem of the jacket, and sew on the jacket sleaves. The Jacket also needs >laceholes center front, where it is laced together. >So you can se i have ben buisy lately.......... >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/caraco_jacket.htm >Any coments is warmly recomended, also critisism :-) > >Bjarne Ah, nuts! 8-D Bjarne, you're putting the rest of us to shame! It seems like you just finished that gorgeous suit, and now you've turned out this stunning ensemble. Have fun in Stockholm, and take pictures so we can all share! Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 19:40:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LNevHP022745 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:40:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LNeSOd012221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:40:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LNeP5R024369; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:40:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LNeM5R024326 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:40:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (adsl-67-124-118-50.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [67.124.118.50]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6LNeK95003862 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:40:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030721162923.00b75230@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:37:51 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re:Avera In-Reply-To: <34753AB4-BBA9-11D7-BA04-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030717121508.02fe9020@pop.sonic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:29 AM 7/21/2003 -0700, you wrote: >We've found a variety of things in our walls and our friends walls >(victorian flats in San Francisco) >as we've been doing remodels. The contractor a friend of mine hired to >put in a wall in her flat >came to her house that day with copies of all the day's papers, that he >put in the wall that day. >He saw it as leaving something to interest the person that would take the >wall down later, >and a little sign of himself and the current times, rather like a time >capsule. We found newspapers in our walls, >too - just pages, not enough to be insulating at all. Frequently that was/is done to give the next person a definite idea of when that particular bit of remodelling was done. We were able to date the previous remodel of our kitchen to 1981 by this process, as no permits were required for the work done. We've continued the process by sealing a complete description of the work done on our upstairs porch (including the date and costs of the materials) in a clean dry wine bottle, then placing it between the joists before the flooring was finished. Another item occasionally found are sets of the original building plans. These are a treasure to the architectural historian, as most residential architecture did not require plans be kept by the local building department, and may be the only way of definitively establishing the age, designer, and builder of a house. My across-the-street neighbor found a set, on drafting linen carefully wrapped in oil cloth, stuffed into a space above the ceiling of his living room a few years ago. With the plans, we were able to establish the actual building date as 1925. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 20:21:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0LVHP022805 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:21:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0L4Od016005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:21:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0L2el019403; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0Kxel019366 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:21:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26377 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:46:31 -0500 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:46:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Re: Extant clothing, was Re:Avera In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030721162923.00b75230@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Dawn Jacobson wrote: > Another item occasionally found are sets of the original building plans. > These are a treasure to the architectural historian, as most residential > architecture did not require plans be kept by the local building > department, and may be the only way of definitively establishing the age, > designer, and builder of a house. Wow, like putting a label in a custom-made suit :-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 20:35:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0ZgHP022834 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:35:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0Z6Od017326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:35:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0Z0el027421; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:35:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0Yoem027276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:34:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6M0ZWbh022020 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:35:39 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6M0ZQlm022018 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:35:26 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] testing.... Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:35:26 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3F17E665.12447398@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <3F17E665.12447398@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307212035.26147.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 18 July 2003 08:21 am, Sue Clemenger wrote: > Just testing. > Again. > --sue Try checking the status of your h-costume subscription on the website. I did when I stopped getting messages, and found that I had had a bounced message and was kind of on probationary status but that I would again receive messages if no more bounces occurred within a specified period. Now, I'm getting messages again. -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 20:36:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0aYHP022839 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:36:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0aCOd017449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:36:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0aCel028168; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:36:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0a6em028127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:36:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6M0adbh022058 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:36:46 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6M0aWJv022033 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:36:32 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Menswear Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:36:32 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307212036.32466.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 18 July 2003 11:55 am, jessica stier wrote: > I have to jump on the bandwagon and sing the praises of Men's Warehouse. [text cut here] > The sales people are so fantastic. They really know their stuff! And they > understand the customer who is on a budget. They also understand my > husbands mentality of not knowing specifically what he wants but he knows > what he doesn't like. Very particular about what he doesn't like to wear, > with no real details of what he actually likes to wear. > > I think they are national. At least they are all over the West Coast. They exist in Pennsylvania, too. -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 20:38:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0c7HP022842 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:38:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0baOd017622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:37:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0bYel029169; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:37:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0bSem029079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:37:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6M0c7bh022074 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:38:13 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6M0c2Gv022072 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:38:02 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] weekends down? Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:38:02 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307212038.02061.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 21 July 2003 08:30 am, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > Does the list shut down over the weekends now? I only seem to get messages > on the weekdays. No, I usually get messages on weekends too--though I typically get more during the week. -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 20:43:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0hwHP022852 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:43:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0hROd018256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:43:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0hQel002912; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:43:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0hNel002784 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:43:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a242.in-tch.com [66.62.107.42]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6M0O0L07630 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F1C8916.70726619@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:45:10 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] weekends down? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I dunno, Gail. Like a lot of you, it seems, I didn't hear anything from this list all weekend, but then I've been having severe problems with my ISP, so I'd chalked it up to that. Part of it, too, may be that some of the folk on the list who are also SCA member may be getting ready for Pennsic.... Me? I'm just hunting down parts of a pirate costume (arrrr), having now seen _Pirates_ twice. Also hunting down beads for a Jack Sparrow hairdo ;o) --sue Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > Does the list shut down over the weekends now? I only seem to get messages > on the weekdays. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 20:52:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0qrHP022866 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:52:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0qTOd019105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:52:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0qSel007890; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:52:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M0qOem007860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:52:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6M0rEbh022218 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:53:15 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6M0rDNX022216 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:53:13 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] weekends down? Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:53:13 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3F1C8916.70726619@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <3F1C8916.70726619@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307212053.13370.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 21 July 2003 08:45 pm, Sue Clemenger wrote: > I dunno, Gail. Like a lot of you, it seems, I didn't hear anything from > this list all weekend, but then I've been having severe problems with my > ISP, so I'd chalked it up to that. I have not been having problems with my ISP, though, and I usually get some h-costume mail over the weekend. -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 21:06:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M16FHP022913 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:06:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M15qOd020373 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:05:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M15or2015177; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:05:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M15lr2015152 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:05:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h6M15kSH020911 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:05:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.157] (tnt-1-221.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.157]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M15LjX020285 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030718094514.00b65460@pop.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030718094514.00b65460@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:14:11 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pensic/SCA Fighter Shirts HELP?! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 9:52 AM -0700 7/18/03, Dawn Jacobson wrote: >At 03:26 PM 7/17/2003 -0400, you wrote: >>Lil Sorepaws wrote: >> >>>With Pensic right around the corner I find myself somehow volunteered to >>Oy. :) >> >>I would base the shirt/tunic on the St. Louis tunic, etc. The only >>"modern" nod that I'd completely avoid is the tendency to cut the >>shirt all in one gingerbread man piece - there's an enormous amount >>of stress at the armpits, which is the last place a fighter wants >>it. >> >>Instead, a moderately close-fitting sleeve with a gusset will give >>the person lots of room to move. >> >>You could leave the center front and back gores out if you wanted >>to save time at the cost of wasting some fabric. >> >>Personally, I wouldn't bother with french seams, etc - the fabric >>is going to take much more wear on the surface than stress on the >>seams. >> >>Constance > >Uh, if the information in MOL "Textiles" is correct, there are >shoulder seams, as the sleeves are cut separate from the body of >the shirt (it also means you can cut it out of narrow--24-28 inch >wide--fabric). The pattern layout is ingenious--I've used it and had >only 1 tiny scrap (from the hole for the head to go through) when >I've finished. The cutting layout for the St. Louis tunic in the MOL book (which is taken directly from Burnham's "Cut My Cote") is, indeed, ingenious -- but in my opinion and that of several other people who have taking a hard look at the original garment, it's inaccurate. The differences are mostly a matter of degree rather than concept (e.g., the body panel is actually significantly tapered, not rectangular; the sleeves have a more drastic taper than Burnham's version). But one consequence is that the elegant cutting layout just doesn't work with what appear to be the actual dimensions of the garment. In defense of pragmatics: Burnham's cutting layout is not merely elegant but produces a very wearable garment -- simply not one that entirely matches the original as closely as it might. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 21:11:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M1BEHP022928 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:11:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M1AnOd020686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:10:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M1Amr2017733; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:10:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6M1Ajr2017713 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:10:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-64-175-43-189.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@64.175.43.189 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jul 2003 01:10:33 -0000 Message-ID: <012e01c34fee$0de57c60$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000d01c34fb6$48bb9140$a7d7b3cf@y3r8b8> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830's undergarments Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:10:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Sarah! Welcome to the list. > First, I have a question about the corsets/stays of the period. So far the > original support garments I've seen are corded and not boned. Would all 30's > corsets and stays have been corded? Or could boning be added? I've made up a > muslin of my pattern and cording doesn't seem to support me very well. > Perhaps this is how it should be, but compared to my 1860's corset, there's > a LOT of wrinkles and pulls. Also, in pictures of the orignals I've seen, > all corsets/stays seem to have a shoulder straps--in some cases being tied > to the stay at front in back, in others being cut with the stay. My understanding is that they would be corded, but also with a wooden busk down the front, which gives a lot of support. I haven't actually made an 1830's corset, so I'm not too sure how that works out in practice! Here's an 1820s-40s corset (scroll down to the second item) -- if you click on the "enlarge" link, you'll see that it has a wide (2-3") pocket in the center front for a busk. http://www.chs.org/textiles/found_acc.htm There's another 1830s corset on this page (scroll down), again w/ cording a busk: http://dept.kent.edu/museum/costume/bonc/4subjectsearch/lingerie/lingerie19t h/lingerie19.html And finally, same deal, c. 1834-35: http://images.vam.ac.uk/images/photo/sch/20000525/high/mb47-037.jpg > I've heard a lot about the layers of petticoats worn during the 30's to give > the desired fullness to the skirts. Would a corded petticoat have been worn > to give more body to the skirts, or would the ladies then just have piled on > the layers of petticoats? Would petticoats have been flounced, or stiffened > at the hem? Ah, the joy of 1830's petticoats! I did a ton of research on this when I made my 1836-7 dress. The short answer is that yes, they used corded petticoats, flounced petticoats, and starch. I compiled my research and practical how-to advice onto this page: http://demode.tweedlebop.com/crinoline.html There's a picture of an 1830's corded petticoat in the new Kyoto Costume Institute book _Fashion_. > What would a chemise have been like? Gussets under the arm, or a bias-cut > seam with no gussets? Or were both methods used? >From what I understand, chemises were still based on the basic 18th century (and previous) shapes of rectangles and triangles. I'm sure you can find patterns for these lots of places, but there's one that I know of off-hand in the 18th c. costume book _Costume Close-Up_. > What materials would be proper to make these garments up in? I'm thinking > cotton or linen, but if there are any other possible materials, please let > me know! I know that both of those were used for undies in this period, but I'm not positive if certain things were used for specific garments. I'd recommend looking at Cunnington's _History of Underclothes_ if you're worried about getting it spot on. Let me know if you have other questions about this period -- Heather (another list-ee) and myself will be teaching a class on this period at Costume College in a few weeks, and I'd be happy to go through my notes. - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 21:36:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M1aXHP022991 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:36:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFLlOd026289 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:21:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LFLktY027218; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:21:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6IDbbTs023924 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:37:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.122] (pm7-122.eos.net [205.133.149.122] (may be forged)) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26030 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:37:36 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:31:37 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200307180138.h6I1cJJ0005985@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: body size X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Asian women with larger children are married to Asian men. Many immigrants to the US who are physically smaller, regardless of their country of origin, have children who are physically larger. It is due to diet, at least in part. While American diets are on the whole pretty poor, they are poor because people eat lots of the wrong thing, not because they don't have enough to eat. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 21:42:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M1gqHP023004 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:42:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M1gSOd023936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:42:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M1gRr2005328; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:42:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hekili.k12.hi.us (hekili.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M1gOr2005305 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:42:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from makani by hekili.k12.hi.us (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with ESMTP id <0HIE006H3KQMKY@hekili.k12.hi.us> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:42:22 -1000 (HST) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:42:09 -1000 (HST) From: annora Subject: Re: [h-cost] weekends down? In-reply-to: <3F1C8916.70726619@in-tch.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-X-Sender: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I dunno, Gail. Like a lot of you, it seems, I didn't hear anything from > this list all weekend, but then I've been having severe problems with my > ISP, so I'd chalked it up to that. > > > > Does the list shut down over the weekends now? I only seem to get messages > > on the weekdays. I didn't get anything all weekend either but on Monday a whole bunch came through that were dated for Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 22:40:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M2eqHP023121 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:40:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M2dnOd029759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:39:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M2dlCs009095; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:39:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M2diCs009056 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:39:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A3EFDE70036; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:39:43 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A3EF19F02D0; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:39:43 -0500 Message-ID: <033001c34ffa$acf40f40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: KNOT Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:40:55 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail, LOL!!!!!!! The main had to be on drugs!!!!!! Did you see the duct tape ties they are selling. They would go over big a home show for men! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 23:28:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M3SCHP023245 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:28:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M3QnOd005221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:26:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M3QmRR008151; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:26:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M3QjRR008126 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:26:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ennX-0004SD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:26:43 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:26:58 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01c35001$1c064c30$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Kid's "period" clothes site...can't remember where I saw this-help? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h6M3SCHP023245 Status: RO Hi all, I remember someone had a link to a site that had an article on kid's period clothes. Not sure what period, but I remember her mentioning Breughel pictures...so somewhere between 1525 and 1600ish. She discussed the 'lappets' or hanging tabs which some children had on the shoulders. Can anyone remember what site I am talking about?? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 21 23:34:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M3YlHP023280 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:34:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M3YPOd005883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:34:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M3YORR012089; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:34:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M3YLRS012064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:34:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6M3ZCbh022894 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:35:12 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6M3ZCCf022892 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:35:12 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kid's "period" clothes site...can't remember where I saw this-help? Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:35:11 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <000b01c35001$1c064c30$6401a8c0@SG01> In-Reply-To: <000b01c35001$1c064c30$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307212335.11796.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 21 July 2003 11:26 pm, Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > Hi all, I remember someone had a link to a site that had an article on > kid's period clothes. Not sure what period, but I remember her mentioning > Breughel pictures...so somewhere between 1525 and 1600ish. She discussed > the 'lappets' or hanging tabs which some children had on the shoulders. > Can anyone remember what site I am talking about?? Yes. Her site is the featured monthly site on Drea's Elizabethan Costuming Page this month. -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 00:44:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M4i1HP023379 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:44:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M4e1Pt012390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:42:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M4OtE1010242; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:24:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M4OpE1010159 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:24:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a25.in-tch.com [66.62.107.5]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6M45SL28086 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:05:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F1CBCFD.1C4AB804@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:26:37 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kid's "period" clothes site...can't remember where I saw this-help? References: <000b01c35001$1c064c30$6401a8c0@SG01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There's an article about it on Drea's website (or linked from there)....lesseee....(clickety-click keyboard version of a rustle, rustle in one's bookcase). Here it is: http://ourworld.cs.com/_ht_a/constancefairfax/Breughel.htm And her website's Drea's monthly feature: http://home.uchicago.edu/~atterlep/costuming/costumingindex.htm Yumm....nice stuff! I'd feel the urge to make something new if I weren't so darned hot. <> The not-so-joke being that we're apt to say, "Well, at least it's a *dry* heat!" --sue "Saragrace T. Knauf" wrote: > > Hi all, I remember someone had a link to a site that had an article on kid's > period clothes. Not sure what period, but I remember her mentioning > Breughel pictures...so somewhere between 1525 and 1600ish. She discussed > the 'lappets' or hanging tabs which some children had on the shoulders. Can > anyone remember what site I am talking about?? > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 00:52:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M4qbHP023402 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:52:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M4nDOd013242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:49:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M4nAE1023130; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:49:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M4n5E1023051 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:49:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ep5F-0005mr-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:49:05 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Kid's "period" clothes site...can't remember where I saw this-help? Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:49:15 -0700 Message-ID: <001701c3500c$9dcea0e0$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3F1CBCFD.1C4AB804@in-tch.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6M4n5E1023051 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, Yes, this is the one. Thank you Sue and Catherine! Where are you Sue? I am in Arizona. It is hot, but starting to get muggy because of the monsoon. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sue Clemenger Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 9:27 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kid's "period" clothes site...can't remember where I saw this-help? There's an article about it on Drea's website (or linked from there)....lesseee....(clickety-click keyboard version of a rustle, rustle in one's bookcase). Here it is: http://ourworld.cs.com/_ht_a/constancefairfax/Breughel.htm And her website's Drea's monthly feature: http://home.uchicago.edu/~atterlep/costuming/costumingindex.htm Yumm....nice stuff! I'd feel the urge to make something new if I weren't so darned hot. <> The not-so-joke being that we're apt to say, "Well, at least it's a *dry* heat!" --sue " _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 00:58:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M4w8HP023408 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:58:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M4svOd013833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:54:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M4suE1026314; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:54:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M4srE1026295 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:54:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19epAq-0004Zf-00; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:54:52 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:55:07 -0700 Message-ID: <001801c3500d$6c8d43a0$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3F1CBCFD.1C4AB804@in-tch.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6M4srE1026295 cc: drea@nospam Subject: [h-cost] Dang, next question: was: Kid's "period" clothes site...can't remember where I saw this-help? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Okay, I want to write Constance about the picture of the lady laying out laundry, but don't see a contact email. Am I missing something, or does anyone know how to email her? Thanks in advance! Sg There's an article about it on Drea's website (or linked from there)....lesseee....(clickety-click keyboard version of a rustle, rustle in one's bookcase). Here it is: http://ourworld.cs.com/_ht_a/constancefairfax/Breughel.htm And her website's Drea's monthly feature: http://home.uchicago.edu/~atterlep/costuming/costumingindex.htm Yumm....nice stuff! I'd feel the urge to make something new if I weren't so darned hot. <> The not-so-joke being that we're apt to say, "Well, at least it's a *dry* heat!" --sue "Saragrace T. Knauf" wrote: > > Hi all, I remember someone had a link to a site that had an article on > kid's period clothes. Not sure what period, but I remember her > mentioning Breughel pictures...so somewhere between 1525 and 1600ish. > She discussed the 'lappets' or hanging tabs which some children had on > the shoulders. Can anyone remember what site I am talking about?? > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 01:12:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M5CeHP023436 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 01:12:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M5BFOd015187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:11:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M5BCnr005610; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:11:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M5B9nr005533 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:11:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a25.in-tch.com [66.62.107.5]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6M4pkL17022 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:51:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F1CC7D7.5197E608@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:12:55 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Bad weather was [h-cost] Kid's "period" clothes site...can't remember where I sawthis-help? References: <001701c3500c$9dcea0e0$6401a8c0@SG01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Montana. We don't get no monsoons up here. Hasn't rained in I don't know how long. I've been in AZ during monsoons, though...gawd, but that's like living in a sauna--hot and wringing wet, and then instantly dry. Odd thing is, we had a lovely, wet spring/early summer that finally got us out of our multi-year drought, and the extended high heats and lack of moisture have brought us way down--fire danger is actually worse than it was a few years ago, when we spent most of the latter half of the summer choking on clouds of smoke. There are all kinds of fire warnings and restrictions on use of public lands popping into place. Fires everywhere (mostly caused by dry lightning, I think), but only small ones in my immediate vicinity. The really big ones are north of me (closer to the Canadian border), and in the eastern half of the state. As if I needed an excuse to want to go back to Europe, their relatively milder weather has me really wishing I were going this summer instead of last year! Obligatory Costume Content: Members of my local SCA group (and I) did an all-afternoon demo in the 100+ degree heat last Saturday, and while I was not exactly a happy camper, I was definitely better off in my linen camicia and linen ItalianRen than some of the others. And I really should be working on my new outfits for this fall, but they're wool, darn it, and I don't even want to touch wool right now! ;-) --sue "Saragrace T. Knauf" wrote: > > Yes, Yes, this is the one. Thank you Sue and Catherine! > > Where are you Sue? I am in Arizona. It is hot, but starting to get muggy > because of the monsoon. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 01:14:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M5ELHP023444 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 01:14:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M5E1Od015406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M5E0nr007058; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M5Dwnr006958 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:13:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a25.in-tch.com [66.62.107.5]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6M4sZL17882 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:54:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F1CC881.121E952A@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:15:45 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dang, next question: was: Kid's "period" clothes site...can'tremember where I saw this-help? References: <001801c3500d$6c8d43a0$6401a8c0@SG01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey, I don't see it either (cool laundry picture though!!). Drea must correspond with her though, so perhaps she'll be able to help..... --sue "Saragrace T. Knauf" wrote: > > Okay, I want to write Constance about the picture of the lady laying out > laundry, but don't see a contact email. Am I missing something, or does > anyone know how to email her? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 01:18:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M5ICHP023448 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 01:18:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M5HnOd015660 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:17:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M5Hmnr009039; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:17:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M5Hjnr008971 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:17:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a25.in-tch.com [66.62.107.5]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6M4wLL19182 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:58:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F1CC963.98A89B9F@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:19:31 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pensic/SCA Fighter Shirts HELP?! References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030718094514.00b65460@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO While I've never made a St Louis shirt, I have (in the past) read both the books mentioned, and Heather's article in _TI_ as well. I'm wondering, could the "degree difference" you speak of, Heather, be a matter of fabric width? --sue, aimlessly musing until it cools down tonight.... Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > At 9:52 AM -0700 7/18/03, Dawn Jacobson wrote: > >At 03:26 PM 7/17/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >>Lil Sorepaws wrote: > >> > >>>With Pensic right around the corner I find myself somehow volunteered to > >>Oy. :) > >> > >>I would base the shirt/tunic on the St. Louis tunic, etc. The only > >>"modern" nod that I'd completely avoid is the tendency to cut the > >>shirt all in one gingerbread man piece - there's an enormous amount > >>of stress at the armpits, which is the last place a fighter wants > >>it. > >> > >>Instead, a moderately close-fitting sleeve with a gusset will give > >>the person lots of room to move. > >> > >>You could leave the center front and back gores out if you wanted > >>to save time at the cost of wasting some fabric. > >> > >>Personally, I wouldn't bother with french seams, etc - the fabric > >>is going to take much more wear on the surface than stress on the > >>seams. > >> > >>Constance > > > >Uh, if the information in MOL "Textiles" is correct, there are > >shoulder seams, as the sleeves are cut separate from the body of > >the shirt (it also means you can cut it out of narrow--24-28 inch > >wide--fabric). The pattern layout is ingenious--I've used it and had > >only 1 tiny scrap (from the hole for the head to go through) when > >I've finished. > > The cutting layout for the St. Louis tunic in the MOL book (which is > taken directly from Burnham's "Cut My Cote") is, indeed, ingenious -- > but in my opinion and that of several other people who have taking a > hard look at the original garment, it's inaccurate. The differences > are mostly a matter of degree rather than concept (e.g., the body > panel is actually significantly tapered, not rectangular; the sleeves > have a more drastic taper than Burnham's version). But one > consequence is that the elegant cutting layout just doesn't work with > what appear to be the actual dimensions of the garment. > > In defense of pragmatics: Burnham's cutting layout is not merely > elegant but produces a very wearable garment -- simply not one that > entirely matches the original as closely as it might. > > Heather > -- > ***** > Heather Rose Jones > hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu > ***** > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 04:07:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M87jHP007320 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 04:07:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M866Od029986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 02:06:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M85v5H002030; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 02:05:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41501.mail.yahoo.com (web41501.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6M85m5H001801 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 02:05:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030722080542.55230.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41501.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:05:42 BST Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:05:42 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] testing.... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200307212035.26147.cathy@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Try checking the status of your h-costume subscription on the website. I did > > when I stopped getting messages, and found that I had had a bounced message > and was kind of on probationary status but that I would again receive > messages if no more bounces occurred within a specified period. Now, I'm > getting messages again. How do you do this Cathy? I had a look but just can't find it. Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 04:16:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M8GIHP009648 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 04:16:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M8EdOd000843 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 02:14:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M8Eb5H006106; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 02:14:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41507.mail.yahoo.com (web41507.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6M8Ea5H006033 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 02:14:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030722081430.92927.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:14:30 BST Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:14:30 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mens Ties To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030721223200.00d6d218@pop.ntlworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The origins of the cravat are earlier than described below, it goes back to the seventeenth century. take a look at my period gallery, you can trace the development from teh 1660s onwards on there: http://www.kipar.org/resources/galleries.html Taken from my web site (chapter on male Baroque clothing): The large lace collar, which was worn during the first half of the 17th century, became smaller at the back and the sides after the 1650s, because the hair was worn much longer. In the end only the strips of fabric remained, which were folded over at the front. These strips, or front edges of the former large collar, became longer, until the collar had developed into the cravat. These cravats, which occurred in the 1670s side by side with the collars, were knotted in the front and held in place by silk ribbon bows in the 1680s, together with the silk ribbon bows at the shoulder the last remains of the former, overflowing ribbon decoration. These last ribbons were to vanish as well during the last decade of the 17th century. The so-called Steinkerke or Steenkerk appeared, once again after having been seen first amongst the military, around 1692, and this cravat fashion's characteristics are the two long ends of the fine cravat being simply gathered in the front and very elegantly and casually fastened by slipping the two ends through one buttonhole. Last but not least take a look at some surviving examples, as found in UK museums: http://www.kipar.org/resources/extant-costumes.html Nicole > >A friend was just asking about the origin of the modern necktie. How did > >it develop into the current shape? (not counting the various widenings and > >narrowings over the years) Was there any purpose tot he current > >configuration, > >to hide shirt buttons or anything like that? > > It's a development of the stock and cravat, but these items weren't > originally worn together. The stiff stock was split at the front when the > shirt was fastened by buttons instead of ties, sometime in the early to mid > nineteenth century, and the wide cravat was reduced in size. > In the 18th century there was a fashion for a 'solitaire,' or a thin black > ribbon, left from the bag wig or queue at the back, drawn forward to tie > over the stock in front. > ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 04:21:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M8LuHP011282 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 04:21:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M8JuOd001252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 02:19:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M8Js5H008291; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 02:19:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M8Jp5H008261 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 02:19:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h6M8Jnp02534.; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:19:49 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:19:49 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:19:18 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] weekends down? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Annora wrote: >>> I didn't get anything all weekend either but on Monday a whole bunch came through that were dated for Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. I usually have a load of messages waiting when I log on at work on Monday morning, but this week there were none. Thet were just starting to come through by the afternoon, including one I posted myself on Friday. Looks as though there was a bottleneck for some reason. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 05:04:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M94hHP027276 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 05:04:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M937Od004358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 03:03:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M936Qk028456; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 03:03:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web60001.mail.yahoo.com (web60001.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.116.224]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6M934Qk028401 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 03:03:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030722090259.43330.qmail@web60001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.53] by web60001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:02:59 BST Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:02:59 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= To: Historic Costuming , H-costume list , HNW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Bath Man's Shirt Embroidery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well despite getting tendonitus in my right arm I have managed to start the embroidery on the copy of the man's shirt (1570-1580) in the museum of costume, Bath. So far one cuff has been completed. http://www.threadsofhistory.co.uk/commissions/current/bkshirt/blackwork- shirt.htm Just got the other cuff and the main body embroidery to do now! Rachel ===== Threads of History www.threadsofhistory.co.uk __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 09:14:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDEeHP027876 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:14:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDA1Ph024555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MD5YQ9016734; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:05:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web9403.mail.yahoo.com (web9403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6MD3uQ9015598 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:03:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030722130356.86957.qmail@web9403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.239.171] by web9403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:03:56 PDT Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:03:56 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bath Man's Shirt Embroidery To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20030722090259.43330.qmail@web60001.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Very nice work, Rachel! Albra Rachel wrote: Well despite getting tendonitus in my right arm I have managed to start the embroidery on the copy of the man's shirt (1570-1580) in the museum of costume, Bath. So far one cuff has been completed. http://www.threadsofhistory.co.uk/commissions/current/bkshirt/blackwork- shirt.htm Just got the other cuff and the main body embroidery to do now! Rachel ===== Threads of History www.threadsofhistory.co.uk __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 09:16:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDGqHP027882 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:16:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDGKOd025024 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:16:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDGIQ9022813; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:16:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDGEQ9022728 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:16:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp456786pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net[68.51.39.237](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2003072213160801400cli9re>; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:16:08 +0000 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:14:58 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Allison Pace To: h-costume@indra.com, margospatterns@yahoogroups.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <7EAC0912-BC46-11D7-8F44-000393D446D6@comcast.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [h-cost] Ostrich feathers Surplus & Clearance Sale X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Somebody was asking about feathers recently: These guys are having a great sale - good prices, but must buy in quantity...scroll down for single feathers. Begin forwarded message: > From: Ostriches On Line > Date: Tue Jul 22, 2003 4:12:20 AM US/Central > To: allison@aristotle.net > Subject: Surplus & Clearance Sale > Reply-To: steve@ostrichesonline.com > > Surplus & Clearance Sale > ------------------------ > > Books - Fringe - Boas - Feathers - Ostrich Meat > ----------------------------------------------- > > Some great bargains are listed below - products we have made a > special purchase on, products we have over-stocked, products we > dyed too many of - lots of great offers. > > First come - first serve. You can't get these prices on the > internet. Contact the US office at +1 708 452 7596 or fax > at +1 708 452 7510 or use the order form below and send an email to > orders@ostrichesonline.com > > Books > ----- > Ratite encyclopaedia > list price $99 - Clearance $25.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > Emu Oil book > list price $36.00 Clearance $10.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > Why Emu Oil Book > list price $24.00 Clearance $8.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > Details of books are here > http://www.ostrich.com/cgi-bin/store/shop?cmd=reference-index > > Fringe > ------ > 3 ply black ostrich fringe. Only 6 available > list price $62.84 Clearance $25.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 3 ply burgundy ostrich fringe. Only 1 available > list price $62.84 Clearance $25.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 3 ply lilac ostrich fringe. Only 2 available > list price $62.84 Clearance $25.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 3 ply violet ostrich fringe. Only 1 available > list price $62.84 Clearance $25.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 3 ply bright yellow ostrich fringe. Only 1 available > list price $62.84 Clearance $25.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 3 ply sky blue ostrich fringe. Only 1 available > list price $62.84 Clearance $25.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 6 ply aztec gold ostrich fringe. Only 1 available > list price $118.25 Clearance $47.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > Details of fringes are here > http://www.ostrich.com/cgi-bin/store/shop?cmd=ostrich-boa-index > > 2 ply Boas > ---------- > 2 ply pink pure ostrich boa. Only 4 available. > list price $55.69 Clearance $23.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 2 ply chestnut brown pure ostrich boa. Only 5 available. > list price $55.69 Clearance $23.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 2 ply black pure ostrich boa. Only 9 available. > list price $55.69 Clearance $23.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 2 ply sky blue pure ostrich boa. Only 1 available. > list price $55.69 Clearance $23.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 2 ply olive pure ostrich boa. Only 6 available. > list price $55.69 Clearance $23.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 2 ply ecru pure ostrich boa. Only 5 available. > list price $55.69 Clearance $23.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 2 ply hot pink pure ostrich boa. Only 2 available. > list price $55.69 Clearance $23.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 2 ply lilac pure ostrich boa. Only 1 available. > list price $55.69 Clearance $23.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 2 ply deep orange pure ostrich boa. Only 1 available. > list price $55.69 Clearance $23.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 2 ply burnt orange pure ostrich boa. Only 1 available. > list price $55.69 Clearance $23.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 2 ply aztec gold pure ostrich boa. Only 1 available. > list price $55.69 Clearance $23.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > Details of boas are here > http://www.ostrich.com/cgi-bin/store/shop?cmd=ostrich-boa-index > > 4 ply Boas > ---------- > 4 ply burnt orange pure ostrich boa. Only 1 available. > list price $73.56 Clearance $29.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 4 ply spruce pure ostrich boa. Only 1 available. > list price $73.56 Clearance $29.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 4 ply chestnut brown pure ostrich boa. Only 5 available. > list price $73.56 Clearance $29.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 4 ply pink pure ostrich boa. Only 1 available. > list price $73.56 Clearance $29.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 4 ply gun metal pure ostrich boa. Only 1 available. > list price $73.56 Clearance $29.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 4 ply ecru pure ostrich boa. Only 2 available. > list price $73.56 Clearance $29.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 4 ply navy blue pure ostrich boa. Only 1 available. > list price $73.56 Clearance $29.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 4 ply hot pink pure ostrich boa. Only 1 available. > list price $73.56 Clearance $29.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 4 ply sapphire blue pure ostrich boa. Only 1 available. > list price $73.56 Clearance $29.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 4 ply purple pure ostrich boa. Only 1 available. > list price $73.56 Clearance $29.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 4 ply black pure ostrich boa. Only 1 available. > list price $73.56 Clearance $29.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 4 ply brilliant blue pure ostrich boa. Only 1 available. > list price $73.56 Clearance $29.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 4 ply burgundy pure ostrich boa. Only 1 available. > list price $73.56 Clearance $29.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > Details of boas are here > http://www.ostrich.com/cgi-bin/store/shop?cmd=ostrich-boa-index > > 6 - 8 - 10 ply Boas > -------------------- > 6 ply burgundy pure ostrich boa. Only 1 available. > list price $176.34 Clearance $70.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 6 ply sky blue pure ostrich boa. Only 2 available. > list price $176.34 Clearance $70.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 6 ply turquoise pure ostrich boa. Only 1 available. > list price $176.34 Clearance $70.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 6 ply black pure ostrich boa. Only 3 available. > list price $176.34 Clearance $70.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 8 ply fire red pure ostrich boa. Only 1 available. > list price $222.50 Clearance $90.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 8 ply hot pink pure ostrich boa. Only 4 available. > list price $222.50 Clearance $90.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 10 ply black pure ostrich boa. Only 5 available. > list price $252.31 Clearance $99.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > Details of boas are here > http://www.ostrich.com/cgi-bin/store/shop?cmd=ostrich-boa-index > > Miscellaneous Boas > ------------------ > 2 ply ecru ostrich & marabou boa. Only 1 available. > list price $60.64 Clearance $28.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 4 ply yellow ostrich with lurex boa. Only 1 available. > list price $83.16 Clearance $39.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 4 ply yellow and white 2 tone ostrich boa. Only 1 available. > list price $103.95 Clearance $49.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > Red Lightweight Marabou boa. Only 6 available. > list price $5.54 Clearance $3.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > Red Heavyweight Marabou boa. Only 10 available. > list price $11.78 Clearance $6.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > Nat Ginger hackle boa. Only 1 available. > list price $83.16 Clearance $47.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > Details of boas are here > http://www.ostrich.com/cgi-bin/store/shop?cmd=ostrich-boa-index > > Feathers - Male Wings > --------------------- > 13 - 17 inch violet. Only 90 available. Min order 45 feathers > List price $6.57 Clearance $0.75 ea Quantity required ____ > > 17 - 20 inch fire red. Only 360 available. Min order 60 feathers > List price $10.40 Clearance $1.20 ea Quantity required ____ > > 17 - 20 inch black. Only 150 available. Min order 50 feathers > List price $10.40 Clearance $1.20 ea Quantity required ____ > > 20 - 25 inch burgundy. Only 90 available. Min order 15 feathers > List price $15.44 Clearance $3.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 20 - 25 inch pink. Only 30 available. Min order 15 feathers > List price $15.44 Clearance $3.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 20 - 25 inch black. Only 90 available. Min order 15 feathers > List price $15.44 Clearance $3.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 25 inch+ royal blue. Only 75 available. Min order 15 feathers > List price $19.30 Clearance $3.50 ea Quantity required ____ > > 25 inch+ pumpkin orange. Only 60 available. Min order 15 feathers > List price $19.30 Clearance $3.50 ea Quantity required ____ > > Details of feathers are here > http://www.ostrich.com/cgi-bin/store/shop?cmd=feather-index > > Feathers - Female Wings > --------------------- > 20 - 25 inch hot pink. Only 100 available. Min order 20 feathers > List price $10.16 Clearance $2.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 20 - 25 inch bright yellow. Only 80 available. Min order 20 feathers > List price $10.16 Clearance $2.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 20 - 25 inch sky blue. Only 80 available. Min order 20 feathers > List price $10.16 Clearance $2.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > 20 - 25 inch aztec gold. Only 50 available. Min order 25 feathers > List price $10.16 Clearance $2.00 ea Quantity required ____ > > Details of feathers are here > http://www.ostrich.com/cgi-bin/store/shop?cmd=feather-index > > Feathers - Slightly defective tails > ----------------------------------- > 12 - 18 hot pink. Min order 1/2 pd. Priced per 1/2 pd. > List price $138.60 Clearance $25.00 Quantity required ____ > > 12 - 18 black. Min order 1/2 pd. Priced per 1/2 pd. > List price $138.60 Clearance $25.00 Quantity required ____ > > 12 - 18 golden yellow. Min order 1/2 pd. Priced per 1/2 pd. > List price $138.60 Clearance $25.00 Quantity required ____ > > 12 - 18 orange. Min order 1/2 pd. Priced per 1/2 pd. > List price $138.60 Clearance $25.00 Quantity required ____ > > 12 - 18 red. Min order 1/2 pd. Priced per 1/2 pd. > List price $138.60 Clearance $25.00 Quantity required ____ > > 12 - 18 lime green. Min order 1/2 pd. Priced per 1/2 pd. > List price $138.60 Clearance $25.00 Quantity required ____ > > 12 - 18 purple. Min order 1/2 pd. Priced per 1/2 pd. > List price $138.60 Clearance $25.00 Quantity required ____ > > 12 - 18 turquoise. Min order 1/2 pd. Priced per 1/2 pd. > List price $138.60 Clearance $25.00 Quantity required ____ > > 12 - 18 yellow. Min order 1/2 pd. Priced per 1/2 pd. > List price $138.60 Clearance $25.00 Quantity required ____ > > 12 - 18 grass green. Min order 1/2 pd. Priced per 1/2 pd. > List price $138.60 Clearance $25.00 Quantity required ____ > > 12 - 18 blue. Min order 1/2 pd. Priced per 1/2 pd. > List price $138.60 Clearance $25.00 Quantity required ____ > > Details of feathers are here > http://www.ostrich.com/cgi-bin/store/shop?cmd=feather-index > > Feathers - Slightly defective spads > ----------------------------------- > 18 - 26 hot pink. Min order 1/2 pd. Priced per 1/2 pd. > List price $138.60 Clearance $25.00 Quantity required ____ > > 18 - 26 black. Min order 1/2 pd. Priced per 1/2 pd. > List price $138.60 Clearance $25.00 Quantity required ____ > > 18 - 26 orange. Min order 1/2 pd. Priced per 1/2 pd. > List price $138.60 Clearance $25.00 Quantity required ____ > > 18 - 26 red. Min order 1/2 pd. Priced per 1/2 pd. > List price $138.60 Clearance $25.00 Quantity required ____ > > 18 - 26 green. Min order 1/2 pd. Priced per 1/2 pd. > List price $138.60 Clearance $25.00 Quantity required ____ > > 18 - 26 purple. Min order 1/2 pd. Priced per 1/2 pd. > List price $138.60 Clearance $25.00 Quantity required ____ > > 18 - 26 yellow. Min order 1/2 pd. Priced per 1/2 pd. > List price $138.60 Clearance $25.00 Quantity required ____ > > 18 - 26 blue. Min order 1/2 pd. Priced per 1/2 pd. > List price $138.60 Clearance $25.00 Quantity required ____ > > Details of feathers are here > http://www.ostrich.com/cgi-bin/store/shop?cmd=feather-index > > Ostrich Meat - for continental USA orders only > ---------------------------------------------- > 50 pds Ostrich Steak > List price $20.00 pd Bulk buy $6.00 pd Quantity required ____ > > 100 pds Ostrich Steak > List price $20.00 pd Bulk buy $5.50 pd Quantity required ____ > > 150 pds Ostrich Steak > List price $20.00 pd Bulk buy $5.00 pd Quantity required ____ > > 50 pds Ostrich Fillet > List price $36.00 pd Bulk buy $8.50 pd Quantity required ____ > > 100 pds Ostrich Fillet > List price $36.00 pd Bulk buy $8.00 pd Quantity required ____ > > 150 pds Ostrich Fillet > List price $36.00 pd Bulk buy $7.50 pd Quantity required ____ > > Shipping costs (extra) for frozen ostrich meat - up to 150 pounds > is $125.00 delivered to your nearest major continental US airport. > > Details of meat are here > http://www.ostrich.com/cgi-bin/store/shop?cmd=meat-index > > Order Form > ---------- > > Minimum Order for the clearance sale is $50.00 US + shipping > > All orders are first come - first serve. > > Not all itmes may be available when you order. > > To place your order, send this complete order form to > orders@ostrichesonline.com > or Fax it to +1 708 452 7510 > or Tel to +1 708 452 7596 > > I would like to order from the Ostriches On Line clearance sale > > Name: > Company Name: > Address: > Address: > City: > Province/State/County: > Post Code: > Country: > Tel: > Fax: > Email: > Credit Card Type: > Amex > Visa > Mastercard > Discover > Diners > Carte Blance > Credit Card Number: > Expiration Date: > Any special or delivery instructions: > > > Please send me products from the clearance sale:- > > > > Send this complete order form to > orders@ostrichesonline.com > or Fax it to +1 708 452 7510 > or Tel to +1 708 452 7596 > > I understand that shipping and handling charges are extra and will > be added to the order, as per the rates listed on the Internet at > http://www.ostrichesonline.com/general/terms.html > > I confirm that I have read and accept and agree to the Terms and > Conditions as listed on the Internet at > http://www.ostrichesonline.com/general/terms.html > > All prices are US dollars. > > Thank you for choosing and visiting Ostriches On Line > > Steve Warrington > ================ > Ostriches On Line - The World's Largest International Ostrich Company > > 2218 N 75th Ave Elmwood Park IL USA 60707 E&OE > > Tel +1 708 452 7596 Fax +1 708 452 7510 > > Receive THE Ostrich Newsletter - over 35,000 subscribers > > http://www.ostrichesonline.com ostrich@ostrichesonline.com > > ========================================== > We cannot manually remove you from our database. > > This email was sent to allison@aristotle.net > > There are 2 methods to un sub scribe yourself. > > Review the full instructions on the Internet site at > > http://www.ostrichesonline.com/general/unsubscribe.html > or > > You may un - sub - scribe here > http://ostrich.com/bin/ > unsub?id=49462&key=oeikXmWbVbjTNsionfemDmJJmDmeqtt& > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 09:20:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDKmHP027898 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:20:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDKMOd025440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:20:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDKLQ9024747; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:20:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDKIQ9024714 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:20:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-14-116.o1.jps.net ([216.119.14.116] helo=pavilion) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ex3x-0004Qt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:20:18 -0700 Message-ID: <001d01c35056$54e7e900$740e77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030722130356.86957.qmail@web9403.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bath Man's Shirt Embroidery Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:36:59 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Rachel wrote: > Well despite getting tendonitus in my right arm I have managed to start the embroidery on the copy > of the man's shirt (1570-1580) in the museum of costume, Bath. Albra wrote: > Very nice work, Rachel! humm......I couldn't see a thing! Just a page not found message. I'd love to see it too. Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 09:23:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDNDHP027905 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:23:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDMnOd025795 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:22:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDMmQ9026434; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:22:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.nameserver.tv (mail.nameserver.tv [209.144.109.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDMjQ9026389 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:22:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from TEENALAPTOP ([206.148.40.232]) by mail.nameserver.tv (Merak 5.8.6) with SMTP id ABG74101 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:21:49 -0700 Message-ID: <007001c35053$c650af30$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F1C8916.70726619@in-tch.com> <200307212053.13370.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] weekends down? Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:18:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It definitely seems there was some sort of problem. There was not a single message for at least 2 days and then about 60 all at once from several days of posts. Perhaps the server was undergoing some maintenance this weekend or something like that? The posts were not lost only saved up for a few days. Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] weekends down? > On Monday 21 July 2003 08:45 pm, Sue Clemenger wrote: > > I dunno, Gail. Like a lot of you, it seems, I didn't hear anything from > > this list all weekend, but then I've been having severe problems with my > > ISP, so I'd chalked it up to that. > > I have not been having problems with my ISP, though, and I usually get some > h-costume mail over the weekend. > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "You live and learn, or you don't live long." > Robert Heinlein > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 09:23:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDNvHP027908 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:23:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDNTOd025871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:23:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDNSQ9026781; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:23:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDNQQ9026766 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:23:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-14-116.o1.jps.net ([216.119.14.116] helo=pavilion) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ex6z-0000Nt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:23:26 -0700 Message-ID: <002801c35056$c5198760$740e77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bath Man's Shirt Embroidery Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:40:08 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO never mind, I see there are a few letters that didn't get caught up in the hyperlink. Beautiful! Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 6:36 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bath Man's Shirt Embroidery > > > > > > Rachel wrote: > > Well despite getting tendonitus in my right arm I have managed to start > the embroidery on the copy > > of the man's shirt (1570-1580) in the museum of costume, Bath. > > Albra wrote: > > > > Very nice work, Rachel! > > humm......I couldn't see a thing! Just a page not found message. I'd love > to see it too. > > Lisa > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 09:29:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDTqHP027918 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:29:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDTQOd026347 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:29:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDTPQ9029629; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:29:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MDTMQ9029589 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:29:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h6MDTLp01119.; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:29:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:29:21 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:28:45 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bath Man's Shirt Embroidery Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> lisa-list@threadneedlest.com 07/22/03 02:36pm >>> > > Rachel wrote: > Well despite getting tendonitus in my right arm I have managed to start the embroidery on the copy > of the man's shirt (1570-1580) in the museum of costume, Bath. Albra wrote: > Very nice work, Rachel! >humm......I couldn't see a thing! Just a page not found message. I'd love >to see it too. Lisa - Try adding "shirt.htm" to the highlighted URL _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 10:25:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MEPHHP028053 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:25:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MEOcOd001351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:24:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MEOaXF001865; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:24:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MEOVXF001816 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:24:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A91F2703F0; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:24:31 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:24:31 -0500 Message-ID: <001401c3505c$f7933960$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <002701c34ce1$839ef090$7c8bcd18@Maxwell> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Still wondering _Why_?? do they put stuff in the last pour? -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Cat Devereaux Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:03 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: Re hiding clothes in building > snippage I'm not joking... this is dead seriously what goes on during the last pour... and isn't just regional. (couldn't resist so am falling out of lurk mode to share this bit of future history) -Cat- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 11:18:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MFI7HP028166 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:18:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MFHBOd007217 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:17:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MFH96b007166; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:17:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.186]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6MFGt6b006985 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:16:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-116-254-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.116.254.169 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jul 2003 15:16:55 -0000 Message-ID: <00de01c35064$4a40ac90$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:16:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Just to make everyone cry... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h6MFI7HP028166 Status: RO http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3538794066&category=7702&rd=1 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 12:01:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MG17HP028372 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:01:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MG03Od012705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:00:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MFxwnN009077; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:59:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MFxsnN009032 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:59:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h6MFxsSH013998 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.196.225] (tnt-1-33.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.225]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MFxmjN013715 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:59:50 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3F1CC963.98A89B9F@in-tch.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030718094514.00b65460@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <3F1CC963.98A89B9F@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:23:10 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pensic/SCA Fighter Shirts HELP?! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:19 PM -0600 7/21/03, Sue Clemenger wrote: >Heather Rose Jones wrote: >> > > At 9:52 AM -0700 7/18/03, Dawn Jacobson wrote: > > >Uh, if the information in MOL "Textiles" is correct, there are >> >shoulder seams, as the sleeves are cut separate from the body of >> >the shirt (it also means you can cut it out of narrow--24-28 inch >> >wide--fabric). The pattern layout is ingenious--I've used it and had >> >only 1 tiny scrap (from the hole for the head to go through) when >> >I've finished. >> >> The cutting layout for the St. Louis tunic in the MOL book (which is >> taken directly from Burnham's "Cut My Cote") is, indeed, ingenious -- >> but in my opinion and that of several other people who have taking a >> hard look at the original garment, it's inaccurate. The differences >> are mostly a matter of degree rather than concept (e.g., the body >> panel is actually significantly tapered, not rectangular; the sleeves >> have a more drastic taper than Burnham's version). But one >> consequence is that the elegant cutting layout just doesn't work with >> what appear to be the actual dimensions of the garment. >> >> In defense of pragmatics: Burnham's cutting layout is not merely >> elegant but produces a very wearable garment -- simply not one that >> entirely matches the original as closely as it might. >While I've never made a St Louis shirt, I have (in the past) read both >the books mentioned, and Heather's article in _TI_ as well. >I'm wondering, could the "degree difference" you speak of, Heather, be a >matter of fabric width? >--sue, aimlessly musing until it cools down tonight.... > It's not an issue of width alone, although width is part of it. Since the body panel tapers, it can't be taken from a simple length of yardage leaving no waste, although you _can_ use most of the off-cuts as the central gores, by my measurements. Similarly, the actual proportions of the sleeves (which are wider and more sharply tapered by my measurements than in Burnham's version) aren't compatible with using the off-cuts as the gores -- the resulting gores would be too short and too wide. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 12:56:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MGuqHP028537 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:56:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MGu4Od019550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:56:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MGu130023070; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lycos.com (www1.mail.lycos.com [209.202.220.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6MGtw30022956 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:55:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:47:21 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:47:21 -0400 From: "Katie Lewis" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: RE: [h-cost] Kid's "period" clothes site...can't remember where I sawthis-help? X-Sender-Ip: 129.219.5.168 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --------- Original Message --------- DATE: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:49:15 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Cc: >Yes, Yes, this is the one. Thank you Sue and Catherine! > >Where are you Sue? I am in Arizona. It is hot, but starting to get muggy >because of the monsoon. Coolness! Where in Arizona are you? I'm in Tempe? -Katie --- Willow: No, Ma, hear this! I'm a rebel! I'm having a rebellion! Sheila: Willow, honey, you don't need to act out like this to prove your specialness. Willow: Mom, I'm not acting out. I'm a witch! I-I can make pencils float. And I can summon the four elements. Okay, two, but four soon. A-and I'm dating a musician.I worship Beelzebub. I do his biddings. Do you see any goats around? No, because I sacrificed them. Sheila:I'm not listening to this. Willow:Prince of Night, I summon you. Come fill me with your black, naughty evil. ____________________________________________________________ Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 13:18:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MHIhHP028609 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:18:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MHGtOd023795 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:16:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MHGq30012292; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:16:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MHGl30012109 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:16:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CE5C1A0240 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:16:42 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F1D724B.7090202@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:20:11 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] looking for black silk cord X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, My husband wants to recreate the black embroidered jerkin from 1590-1600 from the book of Janet Arnolds patterns of fashion. It is on page 24. I am planning on giving some of the meterials for his birthday. I've found black silk satin, and black silk schouldn't be a problem. But there are three thickneses of silk cord used, 1mm, 1.5mm and 6mm and I don't have a clue where to get it. Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 13:22:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MHMuHP028626 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:22:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MHM8Od024746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:22:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MHM630017845; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:22:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MHM330017779 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:22:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19f0pt-000ADT-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:22:02 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:28:07 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Semi-OT: Winter Cloak (non-costume) Interlining/padding References: <111.25ca3217.2c4b806b@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <111.25ca3217.2c4b806b@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thinsulate. I know of people who interline their period cloaks with it, too. Jean IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote >Well, the reason this is "semi-OT" is because the cloak I'm making isn't a >costume- it's a mundane Vogue cloak. I'm making it out of coat-weight 100% >cashmere (fabric.com and a 20% coupon. No full price for me!), and I'm >lining it >in black polyester slipper or duchess satin- can't remember what it was >called. It's pretty and shiny. Anyhow. This is supposed to be my >daily winter >coat, but my parents are concerned that it will not be warm enough >(they seem to >be concerned about a lot of things these days. Must be the whole >off-to-college separation anxiety thing). So...does anyone have an >idea of what I can use >to interline or pad this cloak, so that it's warmer but not bulky? It's >about mid-thigh length, and I've drafted a hood onto it- it closes in >the front >with snaps and has hand slits. I'm thinking of some sort of fusible batting, >maybe (that way I can fuse it down and then flatline-sew it to either >the lining >or the cashmere itself), but I have no idea. Ah..help! > >Christine >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 13:37:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MHbaHP028679 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:37:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MHagOd028551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:36:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MHaakj001883; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:36:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MHZwkj001226 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:35:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19f13N-0002Vy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:35:57 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] looking for black silk cord Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:35:57 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01c35077$b5f3cd10$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3F1D724B.7090202@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6MHZwkj001226 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You could make the cord if you can't find it in varying widths. I have great success making piping with bias strips of silk...you could do the same for cord with all those cool mini tube turner tools. Sg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Deredere Galbraith Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 10:20 AM To: H-Costume Subject: [h-cost] looking for black silk cord Hi, My husband wants to recreate the black embroidered jerkin from 1590-1600 from the book of Janet Arnolds patterns of fashion. It is on page 24. I am planning on giving some of the meterials for his birthday. I've found black silk satin, and black silk schouldn't be a problem. But there are three thickneses of silk cord used, 1mm, 1.5mm and 6mm and I don't have a clue where to get it. Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 13:45:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MHjMHP028693 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:45:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MHiKOd000554 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:44:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MHiIkj008443; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:44:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MHi1kj008096 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.b9.3428695c (25098) for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:43:49 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:43:49 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Just to make everyone cry... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 108 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO *sniffle* Yep, that's the sound of me saying to myself, "I wish I could afford all these big, wonderful costume books.." Christine College Student. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 14:11:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MIBsHP028750 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:11:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MIAwOd005561 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:10:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MIAlEQ002078; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:10:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MIAaEQ001894 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:10:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (adsl-67-124-118-50.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [67.124.118.50]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6MIAYEm005889 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:10:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030722110233.00b31300@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:08:06 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830's undergarments In-Reply-To: <012e01c34fee$0de57c60$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> References: <000d01c34fb6$48bb9140$a7d7b3cf@y3r8b8> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 06:10 PM 7/21/2003 -0700, Kendra wrote: > > > What would a chemise have been like? Gussets under the arm, or a bias-cut > > seam with no gussets? Or were both methods used? > > >From what I understand, chemises were still based on the basic 18th century >(and previous) shapes of rectangles and triangles. I'm sure you can find >patterns for these lots of places, but there's one that I know of off-hand >in the 18th c. costume book _Costume Close-Up_. > > > What materials would be proper to make these garments up in? I'm thinking > > cotton or linen, but if there are any other possible materials, please let > > me know! > >I know that both of those were used for undies in this period, but I'm not >positive if certain things were used for specific garments. I'd recommend >looking at Cunnington's _History of Underclothes_ if you're worried about >getting it spot on. If you don't already have a copy, get a copy of "The Workwoman's Guide" by A Lady (originally published in 1838; reproduced by Opus Publications, ISBN 0940983001). There is an entire section on how to build women's linens, including an entire page of layouts of shifts/chemises. As it also covers such diverse and sundry things as men's linens, kids' clothes, what to have in one's workbox, recipes, knitting, and how to do straw plaitting, it's a wonderful source for 1830s information. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 15:16:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MJG3HP028891 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:16:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MJA3Oh013114 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:14:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MIsCEQ008264; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:54:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pro5.mtco.com (pro5.mtco.com [207.179.200.251]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6MIqmEQ006959 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:53:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 8510 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2003 18:44:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO y3r8b8) (207.179.215.205) by ns.mtco.com with SMTP; 22 Jul 2003 18:44:40 -0000 Message-ID: <002d01c35082$8ab9aa60$cdd7b3cf@y3r8b8> From: "Sarah Jane Edwards" <1warcry@mtco.com> To: "Historical Costume" References: <000d01c34fb6$48bb9140$a7d7b3cf@y3r8b8> <5.2.0.9.0.20030722110233.00b31300@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830's undergarments Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:53:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks so much for the information, Kendra and Dawn. All of this is very helpful to me. I'll look into the books you mentioned--I can't wait to read them! They sound wonderful. All this has helped so much! Thanks for your help! Sarah "It is good for me that I was afflicted, that I might learn your statues." Psalm 119:71 1warcry@mtco.com http://web2k.mtco.com/ldepse _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 15:32:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MJWQHP028928 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:32:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MJToOd015856 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:29:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MJR4Oa006058; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:27:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MJQxOa005891 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:27:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp456786pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net[68.51.39.237](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003072219265301300oqjjge>; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:26:54 +0000 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:25:40 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Allison Pace To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200307221801.h6MI1hER024296@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <47985A04-BC7A-11D7-A167-000393D446D6@comcast.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [h-cost] Tube-turning X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > You could make the cord if you can't find it in varying widths. I have > great success making piping with bias strips of silk...you could do > the same > for cord with all those cool mini tube turner tools. > > Sg Saragrace, I recently used a friend's tube turner, and found that pushing the inner tube hard enough to get the fabric through the outer tube, I broke stitches in several places. I was using that prepackaged cotton/poly bias tape. Do you have any tips on how to make this work better, because it sure is a time-saver! Allison P. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 15:35:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MJZlHP028931 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:35:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MJZ7Od016592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:35:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MJWhOa010681; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:32:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt21.cluster1.charter.net (remt21.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MJWdOa010513 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:32:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.205.139.124] (HELO Maxwell) by remt21.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 100225899 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:32:33 -0400 From: "Cat Devereaux" To: Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:32:38 -0700 Message-ID: <004501c35088$03a78370$7c8bcd18@Maxwell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <200307221801.h6MI1hES024296@net.indra.com> Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Re hiding clothes in building X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> Still wondering _Why_?? do they put stuff in the last pour? How to put it politely... the construction workers have put sweat and blood and months of labor on a project often forgoing off time, etc. They do this to celebrate that the hob is done, also party a bit, good chance for a final beer with the buddies (and ah, party, maybe). Think of it like a show's closing night party, except these guys (and gals) have worked together for even longer. With the final pour, folks start getting laid off. They start looking for new projects and may never be together again... at least not in this configuration. (that's the psychology version). The raw version, which most will tell you... boys (and girls) just want to party... and the adding the underwear and fillies to the final pour is just their punctuation. Future historians will take the top answer... most of the workers don't see beyond the 2nd... yet they really both mean the same thing. -Cat- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 16:32:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MKW6HP029045 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:32:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MKUPOd024497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:30:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MKReQ1027690; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:27:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MKRaQ1027590 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:27:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.14a.21f2598a (15865); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:27:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-m28.webmail.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v95.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID64-3df93f1d9e2f35b; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:27:27 -0400 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:27:27 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com, saragrace@earthlink.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1E64FB6F.1476A564.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Kid's "period" clothes - from Constance X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry, I was on vacation! :) The laundry lady detail is from a painting by Pieter's son, Jan Brughel the Elder (c. 1600-10), sometimes called "The Laundry-yard". I am trying (without success) to get a better picture, slide, or print of the painting. At Pennsic, I'll be teaching "Clothing from the Paintings of Pieter Bruegel the Elder for Men, Women, and Children" -- if you'd like to come, I'll have several prints to look at close-up, and samples/models of various styles. If you can't come, I'd be happy to email a PDF of the handout, which currently contains more information than my web site, and more art than the spring TI article. Constance http://home.uchicago.edu/~atterlep/costuming/costumingindex.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 16:35:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MKZDHP029052 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:35:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MKXZOd025041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:33:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MKVDQ1000794; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:31:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.primushost.com (smtp1.primushost.com [209.58.220.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MKS8Q2028017 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:28:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp1.primushost.com with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim) id 19f3h7-0007gt-92; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:25:09 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for id 19f3kO-0000RW-00; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:28:32 -0400 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:28:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830's undergarments In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030722110233.00b31300@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 cc: Historical Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There's a wonderful little easy to make bustle in the workwoman's guide that I used for my 1830's dress. Very quick, just a rectangle of cloth with cording and drawstring waist. (plate 11, fig 30, between pages 54-55) And a wonderful day cap, fig. 28 after page 62 (plate 9). I don't have pictures of the undergarments I wore with it on my website, and I don't have pics of the day dress I wore as a lowell mill girl on the web yet, but the balldress is pictured on my website here: http://www.vintagevictorian.com/1830_dress.html I am in love with the 1830's, I need to make a correct corset next. Has anyone used Past Patterns corded stay #001? Katy On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Dawn Jacobson wrote: >At 06:10 PM 7/21/2003 -0700, Kendra wrote: >> > >> > What would a chemise have been like? Gussets under the arm, or a bias-cut >> > seam with no gussets? Or were both methods used? >> >> >From what I understand, chemises were still based on the basic 18th century >>(and previous) shapes of rectangles and triangles. I'm sure you can find >>patterns for these lots of places, but there's one that I know of off-hand >>in the 18th c. costume book _Costume Close-Up_. >> >> > What materials would be proper to make these garments up in? I'm thinking >> > cotton or linen, but if there are any other possible materials, please let >> > me know! >> >>I know that both of those were used for undies in this period, but I'm not >>positive if certain things were used for specific garments. I'd recommend >>looking at Cunnington's _History of Underclothes_ if you're worried about >>getting it spot on. > >If you don't already have a copy, get a copy of "The Workwoman's Guide" by >A Lady (originally published in 1838; reproduced by Opus Publications, ISBN >0940983001). There is an entire section on how to build women's linens, >including an entire page of layouts of shifts/chemises. As it also covers >such diverse and sundry things as men's linens, kids' clothes, what to have >in one's workbox, recipes, knitting, and how to do straw plaitting, it's a >wonderful source for 1830s information. > >Dawn > >Dawn Jacobson >Vallejo, CA, USA > >Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 16:38:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MKc4HP029067 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:38:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MKaZOd025496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:36:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MKXnQ1003037; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:33:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from SRVNODE7.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6MKTXQ1029225 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:29:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by SRVNODE7.cho.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:29:20 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <192.1d8948ad.2c4d67a1@aol.com> References: <192.1d8948ad.2c4d67a1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:32:45 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish Ropa Question Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Really nice research. And there's very little research about children out there - or at least there was when I was trying to dress my two in court so many years ago. I'd find a sentence here or a portrait there, but never enough in one spot. We used suspenders attached to the hoopskirt and hook/eye combinations for keepign the skirts to the bodices. This si necessary because **children have no hips** and the skirts and hoops just drop off them with the weight of the skirts. I thought about using the ties but didn't because it didn't give me the flexibility I needed to keep them in one costume for two years running. Again, good job! LynnD >In a message dated 7/21/2003 11:23:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: > > > http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/diary2002/page1.html >> > >Very nice > > >I love, on the research page, the 2 children's' outfits. >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 16:40:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MKenHP029073 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:40:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MKeBOd026467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:40:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MKbRQ1006369; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:37:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MKXbQ1002790 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:33:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1c1.cd689ab (15900) for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:33:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-d14.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.130]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v95.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID93-3e1c3f1d9f99257; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:33:29 -0400 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:33:29 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pensic/SCA Fighter Shirts HELP?! MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3BE3E680.1C5E01A1.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm suggesting using the MOL cutting diagram with an attached sleeve and gores rather than something like: http://sca.warhawkhobbies.com/ttunic.htm http://www.wm.edu/SO/SCA/new/tunic.html http://home1.gte.net/kmvogt/ktunic1.html http://www.geocities.com/hansensmtn/toby/basic_tunic.htm Constance >At 9:52 AM -0700 7/18/03, Dawn Jacobson wrote: >>>I would base the shirt/tunic on the St. Louis tunic, etc. The only >>>"modern" nod that I'd completely avoid is the tendency to cut the >>>shirt all in one gingerbread man piece - there's an enormous amount >>>of stress at the armpits, which is the last place a fighter wants >>>it. >>Uh, if the information in MOL "Textiles" is correct, there are >>shoulder seams, as the sleeves are cut separate from the body of >>the shirt (it also means you can cut it out of narrow--24-28 inch >>wide--fabric). The pattern layout is ingenious--I've used it and had >>only 1 tiny scrap (from the hole for the head to go through) when >>I've finished. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 17:37:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MLbbHP029299 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:37:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MLb9Od008427 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:37:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MLYR88028767; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:34:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MLYO88028742 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:34:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19f4m8-0006Bn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:34:24 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tube-turning Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:34:09 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01c35099$05b34940$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <47985A04-BC7A-11D7-A167-000393D446D6@comcast.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have seen the type of tool you are speaking of and have seen them used successfully on small things like tiny doll fingers. The kind I am talking about have a tube and a long wire with a pointed curl on the end. It takes some practice to get the size of the tube right to ensure you can get lots of length shoved on the tube. It also takes a little practice to snag the end of the tube with the wire to draw it down the center of the tube to get it to turn. Once you get it going though the tube provides a surface to nudge and push the fabric tube on the outside towards the top, down the center and out...I hope that helps. If I can provide any further explanation feel free to ask. Sg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Allison Pace Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 12:26 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Tube-turning > You could make the cord if you can't find it in varying widths. I > have great success making piping with bias strips of silk...you could > do the same for cord with all those cool mini tube turner tools. > > Sg Saragrace, I recently used a friend's tube turner, and found that pushing the inner tube hard enough to get the fabric through the outer tube, I broke stitches in several places. I was using that prepackaged cotton/poly bias tape. Do you have any tips on how to make this work better, because it sure is a time-saver! Allison P. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 18:51:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MMpDHP029910 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:51:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MMomOd018394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:50:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MMm6Og028790; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:48:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MMm1Og028709 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp475.pop1.net [209.102.126.75]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA17039 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:48:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp475.pop1.net [209.102.126.75] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <3F1DBEFF.5010707@pcez.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:47:27 -0700 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] What do you think... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I recently heard about two different books and I was wondering if any of you can give me your thoughts on them. They are: Medieval Tailor's Assistance by Sarah Thursfield Medieval Military Costume by Gerry Embleton I'm waiting for them from the library while I sit and wait for my broken ankle to heal. Been thinking of ways to disguise the cast.... ;) Before the next SCA tourney I'm planning on attending. Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 19:04:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MN4FHP029957 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:04:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MN3nOd020311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:03:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MN1NK7009617; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:01:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MN1KK7009575 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:01:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19f68F-0000Qi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:01:19 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] What do you think... Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:01:19 -0700 Message-ID: <001701c350a5$2a49a040$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3F1DBEFF.5010707@pcez.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I really enjoy the first...I am new to that period of clothing and used it extensively to make my first garment of that period. http://www.saragrace.net/5A_Tunic_Tales.html -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Roscelin Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 3:47 PM To: H-Costume Subject: [h-cost] What do you think... I recently heard about two different books and I was wondering if any of you can give me your thoughts on them. They are: Medieval Tailor's Assistance by Sarah Thursfield Medieval Military Costume by Gerry Embleton I'm waiting for them from the library while I sit and wait for my broken ankle to heal. Been thinking of ways to disguise the cast.... ;) Before the next SCA tourney I'm planning on attending. Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 19:07:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MN79HP029982 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:07:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MN6kOd020650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:06:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MN45K7011666; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:04:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web9403.mail.yahoo.com (web9403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6MN3JK7010986 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:03:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030722230319.55272.qmail@web9403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.239.171] by web9403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:03:19 PDT Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:03:19 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] What do you think... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F1DBEFF.5010707@pcez.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have both of those books---and have found them both to be extremely useful. Enjoy! Albra Roscelin wrote: I recently heard about two different books and I was wondering if any of you can give me your thoughts on them. They are: Medieval Tailor's Assistance by Sarah Thursfield Medieval Military Costume by Gerry Embleton I'm waiting for them from the library while I sit and wait for my broken ankle to heal. Been thinking of ways to disguise the cast.... ;) Before the next SCA tourney I'm planning on attending. Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 19:36:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MNa3HP030346 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:36:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MNZTOd024941 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:35:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MNWi3m002802; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:32:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [63.251.216.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MNWd3m002683 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:32:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from megan2 (pcp04229141pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [68.37.6.107]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E360E1BB6B for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:33:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1830's undergarments Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:34:39 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030722110233.00b31300@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Where can one get this book? It is unavailable at Amazon, and the email address listed on the PMA site google turns up says the domain is not in existance. Any clues? -Megan Dawn Jacobson wrote: If you don't already have a copy, get a copy of "The Workwoman's Guide" by A Lady (originally published in 1838; reproduced by Opus Publications, ISBN 0940983001). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 19:55:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MNtEg5001968 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:55:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MNsTOd027306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:54:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MNpl3m016097; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:51:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.primushost.com (smtp2.primushost.com [209.58.220.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MNpi3n016004 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:51:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp2.primushost.com with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim) id 19f6yZ-0004wA-HF; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:55:23 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for id 19f6vQ-0000xq-00; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:52:08 -0400 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:52:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: "Megan M." Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1830's undergarments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Historical Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I found this website that says it has it to order, surprisingly with a different ISBN number than my copy ISBN # 0-9191606-4-3 (my copy has ISBN # 0-940983-00-1) http://www.piperpublishing.com/deco.htm Katy On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Megan M. wrote: >Where can one get this book? It is unavailable at Amazon, and the email >address listed on the PMA site google turns up says the domain is not in >existance. Any clues? >-Megan > >Dawn Jacobson wrote: >If you don't already have a copy, get a copy of "The Workwoman's Guide" by >A Lady (originally published in 1838; reproduced by Opus Publications, ISBN >0940983001). > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 20:56:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N0uMg5002612 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:56:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N0ttOd003845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:55:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N0rBbT023843; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:53:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N0r7bT023782 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:53:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-010-041.jps.net ([216.119.10.41] helo=pavilion) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19f7sQ-0003yk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:53:07 -0700 Message-ID: <001a01c350b7$1e9319e0$290a77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000a01c35099$05b34940$6401a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tube-turning Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:09:50 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 2:34 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tube-turning > I have seen the type of tool you are speaking of and have seen them used > successfully on small things like tiny doll fingers. > > The kind I am talking about have a tube and a long wire with a pointed curl > on the end. It takes some practice to get the size of the tube right to > ensure you can get lots of length shoved on the tube. It also takes a > little practice to snag the end of the tube with the wire to draw it down > the center of the tube to get it to turn. Once you get it going though the > tube provides a surface to nudge and push the fabric tube on the outside > towards the top, down the center and out...I hope that helps. > > If I can provide any further explanation feel free to ask. > > Sg > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Allison Pace > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 12:26 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Tube-turning > > > > You could make the cord if you can't find it in varying widths. I > > have great success making piping with bias strips of silk...you could > > do the same for cord with all those cool mini tube turner tools. > > > > Sg > Saragrace, I recently used a friend's tube turner, and found that > pushing the inner tube hard enough to get the fabric through the outer > tube, I broke stitches in several places. I was using that prepackaged > cotton/poly bias tape. Do you have any tips on how to make this work > better, because it sure is a time-saver! > Allison P. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 21:03:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N13qg5002629 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:03:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N13QOd004645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:03:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N10j5D028620; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:00:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N10e5D028572 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:00:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-010-041.jps.net ([216.119.10.41] helo=pavilion) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19f7zk-0007ND-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:00:40 -0700 Message-ID: <002601c350b8$2cc33120$290a77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000a01c35099$05b34940$6401a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tube-turning Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:17:23 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have yet to master the tube turning tool but there is another easy way to make tubes using an overlocker. What you do is you stitch a chain the length of the final tube you wish to create plus another few inches or centimeters. Then, without cutting the chain you bring it back towards you and place it in the middle of the folded fabric you are about to sew so when you're finished you have your tube sewn with the chain in the middle and the end of the chain sticking out. Then all you do is pull the end of the chain that is sticking out and the tube turns inside out along with it and you now have your finished tube turned right side out. I suppose you could also sew the tube with a piece of yarn in the middle, making sure you don't catch it in the stitching, sew one end of the tube closed and pull the yarn when you're done to turn the tube inside out. That would work too. Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 21:12:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N1CIg5002649 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:12:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N1AeOd005385 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:10:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N17x5D002655; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:07:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N17t5E002622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:07:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6N18nbh024796 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:08:50 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6N18nop024794 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:08:49 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kid's "period" clothes site...can't remember where I saw this-help? Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:08:48 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <001701c3500c$9dcea0e0$6401a8c0@SG01> In-Reply-To: <001701c3500c$9dcea0e0$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307222108.48870.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 22 July 2003 12:49 am, Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > Yes, Yes, this is the one. Thank you Sue and Catherine! You're welcome. > Where are you Sue? I am in Arizona. It is hot, but starting to get muggy > because of the monsoon. I don't know about Sue, but I'm in the suburbs of Philadelphia, PA, and it's muggy enough here, thank you very much. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "You live and learn, or you don't live long." Robert Heinlein _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 21:26:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N1Q6g5002682 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:26:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N1OPOd006762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:24:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N1Lh5D009752; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:21:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N1Lb5E009711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:21:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6N1MPbh024990 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:22:29 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6N1MLgq024988 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:22:22 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] testing.... Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:22:21 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20030722080542.55230.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030722080542.55230.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307222122.21679.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6N1Lb5E009711 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 22 July 2003 04:05 am, N Kipar wrote: > > Try checking the status of your h-costume subscription on the website. I > > did > > > > when I stopped getting messages, and found that I had had a bounced > > message and was kind of on probationary status but that I would again > > receive messages if no more bounces occurred within a specified period. > > Now, I'm getting messages again. > > How do you do this Cathy? I had a look but just can't find it. When you first subscribe to h-costume, you get a returning email with a URL and your password in it. If you click on the URL in that email, it will take you to your subscription page. Or, at least that's the way I did it. (I don't know how you get there if you didn't save your subscription email.) :-) -- Cathy Raymond “No man is rich enough to buy back his past.” Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 21:29:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N1TKg5002689 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:29:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N1RfOd007119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:27:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N1P15D011565; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N1Ow5D011489 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:24:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp456786pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net[68.51.39.237](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2003072301245301500qm4b5e>; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 01:24:53 +0000 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:23:43 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Allison Pace To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200307230103.h6N13Z5E000368@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <4C778956-BCAC-11D7-8DF8-000393D446D6@comcast.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [h-cost] Re: Tube-turning X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa, this is brilliant! Thanks!!!! On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 08:03 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote I have yet to master the tube turning tool but there is another easy way to > make tubes using an overlocker. What you do is you stitch a chain the > length of the final tube you wish to create plus another few inches or > centimeters. Then, without cutting the chain you bring it back > towards you > and place it in the middle of the folded fabric you are about to sew > so when > you're finished you have your tube sewn with the chain in the middle > and the > end of the chain sticking out. Then all you do is pull the end of the > chain > that is sticking out and the tube turns inside out along with it and > you now > have your finished tube turned right side out. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 22:03:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N23Og5002768 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:03:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N22vOd010494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:02:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N20FXB000811; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:00:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N20DXB000796 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:00:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 66-44-0-27.s27.apx1.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.0.27] helo=erols.com) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 19f8vM-000104-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:00:13 -0400 Message-ID: <3F1E1774.D0E57EFA@erols.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:04:52 -0700 From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <20030619100306.S82717-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Men's Victorian Patterns? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I have been looking for information and patterns for Men's swimwear for Victorian to 1920's. I could not find much information. I was wondering if the Costume list had any recommendation. Your humble and obediant servant, David S Mallinak _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 22:09:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N29Bg5002781 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:09:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N28mOd011067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:08:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N267XB004035; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:06:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N262XB004003 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:06:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-9-90.smf.jps.net ([216.119.9.90] helo=pavilion) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19f90y-0002mA-00; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:06:01 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01c350c1$4d83cf60$5a0977d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:22:08 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 cc: Robin Netherton Subject: [h-cost] Queen Elizabeth image sitting in a St. Catherine's Wheel X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h6N29Bg5002781 Status: RO I just happened to notice an image of Queen Elizabeth sitting in a drum type of farthingale on page 62 of Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd. You can see it here at www.thrednedlestrete.com/Bulletinboard . It's by an unknown artist from 1595 and it shows the silhouette of someone who is sitting down in a wheel farthingale. Now from my limited studies of the crinoline era, my belief is that women didn't sit in those hooped skirts, they perched. This image of Elizabeth has her sitting completely in a chair, not perching at all. You can see the arms of the throne so she is truly "sitting in" the chair. And what is shows is something round that is only a few inches wide around her waist. Her knees are sticking right out from under a bumroll type set up. My thought is that if it had hoops all the way down like a spanish farthingale she would more likely be perching. Otherwise she would have to reach completly under her skirt to hoist all the hoops up which would be very ungracious to achieve this silhouette. Just some more thoughts to add to the wheel farthingale debate. Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 22:12:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N2CNg5002788 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:12:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N2BtOd011481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:11:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N29EXB005479; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:09:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N29CXB005460 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:09:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-9-90.smf.jps.net ([216.119.9.90] helo=pavilion) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19f944-0007Vs-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:09:12 -0700 Message-ID: <001301c350c1$bf684de0$5a0977d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4C778956-BCAC-11D7-8DF8-000393D446D6@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Tube-turning Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:25:54 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Allison Pace" wrote > Lisa, this is brilliant! Thanks!!!! you're most welcome. It works too! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 22:14:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N2Eog5002793 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:14:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N2EOOd011692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:14:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N2C4XB006960; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:12:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N2AvXB006487 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:10:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-9-90.smf.jps.net ([216.119.9.90] helo=pavilion) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19f95k-0002JB-00; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:10:56 -0700 Message-ID: <002201c350c1$fd732d80$5a0977d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:27:38 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 cc: Robin Netherton Subject: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth image sitting in a St. Catherine's Wheel X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h6N2Eog5002793 Status: RO sorry the url is www.thrednedlestrete.com/Bulletinboard.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Lisa Sinervo To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: Robin Netherton Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 7:22 PM Subject: Queen Elizabeth image sitting in a St. Catherine's Wheel I just happened to notice an image of Queen Elizabeth sitting in a drum type of farthingale on page 62 of Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd. You can see it here at www.thrednedlestrete.com/Bulletinboard . It's by an unknown artist from 1595 and it shows the silhouette of someone who is sitting down in a wheel farthingale. Now from my limited studies of the crinoline era, my belief is that women didn't sit in those hooped skirts, they perched. This image of Elizabeth has her sitting completely in a chair, not perching at all. You can see the arms of the throne so she is truly "sitting in" the chair. And what is shows is something round that is only a few inches wide around her waist. Her knees are sticking right out from under a bumroll type set up. My thought is that if it had hoops all the way down like a spanish farthingale she would more likely be perching. Otherwise she would have to reach completly under her skirt to hoist all the hoops up which would be very ungracious to achieve this silhouette. Just some more thoughts to add to the wheel farthingale debate. Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 23:10:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N3AFg5002953 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:10:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N39jOd016882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:09:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N36wVU007243; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:06:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N36sVU007211 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:06:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.249.181.71] (pool181-5.patriot.net [209.249.181.5]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6N36q2Y030735 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:06:53 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002601c350b8$2cc33120$290a77d8@pavilion> References: <000a01c35099$05b34940$6401a8c0@SG01> <002601c350b8$2cc33120$290a77d8@pavilion> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:06:48 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tube-turning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa wrote, >I suppose you could also sew the tube with a piece of yarn in the >middle, making sure you don't catch it in the stitching, sew one end >of the tube closed and pull the yarn when you're done to turn the >tube inside out. That would work too. I've done this, using cable cord. It's harder than yarn, so you can run the presser foot up against it with little risk of stitching it. Running the foot against the cable cord is also a handy way to keep the width of the tube even. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 23:13:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N3DHg5002977 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:13:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N3CoOd017327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:12:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N3AAVU008946; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:10:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N37QVV007492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:07:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6N38Kbh025133 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:08:20 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6N38KQ1025131 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:08:20 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] What do you think... Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:08:19 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3F1DBEFF.5010707@pcez.com> In-Reply-To: <3F1DBEFF.5010707@pcez.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307222308.19845.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6N37QVV007492 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 22 July 2003 06:47 pm, Roscelin wrote: > I recently heard about two different books and I was wondering if any of > you can give me your thoughts on them. They are: > > Medieval Tailor's Assistance by Sarah Thursfield > Medieval Military Costume by Gerry Embleton I have both of them. I have yet to use anything out of the Thursfield book but the advice it gives (and the mode of pattern design it suggests) appear sound to me. It focuses on typical garments of the 1200-1500 period (mostly England/western Europe). Embleton's book is about 15th c military campaign attire. He is a medieval reenactor and the book is plentifully illustrated with marvelous full color photos of his reenactment group in action. Marvelous eye candy and inspirational material. Enjoy them! -- Cathy Raymond “No man is rich enough to buy back his past.” Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 22 23:15:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N3FYg5003004 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:15:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N3F9Od017549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:15:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N3CuVU010324; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:12:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N39WVV008589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:09:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6N3AObh025177 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:10:25 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6N3AOmM025175 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:10:24 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bath Man's Shirt Embroidery Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:10:23 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20030722130356.86957.qmail@web9403.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030722130356.86957.qmail@web9403.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307222310.23768.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6N39WVV008589 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 22 July 2003 09:03 am, KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: > Very nice work, Rachel! > Albra > > Rachel wrote: > Well despite getting tendonitus in my right arm I have managed to start the > embroidery on the copy of the man's shirt (1570-1580) in the museum of > costume, Bath. > > So far one cuff has been completed. > http://www.threadsofhistory.co.uk/commissions/current/bkshirt/blackwork- > shirt.htm > > Just got the other cuff and the main body embroidery to do now! Beautiful--and different than most blackwork I've seen. I admire your patience. -- Cathy Raymond “No man is rich enough to buy back his past.” Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 00:31:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N4VBg5003172 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:31:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N4UjOd025941 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:30:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N4S4h4023428; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:28:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N4S2h4023392 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:28:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02082; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:53:37 -0500 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:53:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Lisa Sinervo In-Reply-To: <000a01c350c1$4d83cf60$5a0977d8@pavilion> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth image sitting in a St. Catherine's Wheel X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > I just happened to notice an image of Queen Elizabeth sitting in a > drum type of farthingale on page 62 of Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe > Unlock'd. You can see it here at > www.thrednedlestrete.com/Bulletinboard . It's by an unknown artist > from 1595 and it shows the silhouette of someone who is sitting down > in a wheel farthingale. > > Now from my limited studies of the crinoline era, my belief is that > women didn't sit in those hooped skirts, they perched. This image of > Elizabeth has her sitting completely in a chair, not perching at all. > You can see the arms of the throne so she is truly "sitting in" the > chair. And what is shows is something round that is only a few inches > wide around her waist. Her knees are sticking right out from under a > bumroll type set up. My thought is that if it had hoops all the way > down like a spanish farthingale she would more likely be perching. > Otherwise she would have to reach completly under her skirt to hoist > all the hoops up which would be very ungracious to achieve this > silhouette. I think someone mentions this image every time the topic comes up ;-) If you read Arnold's text, you learn that this painting underwent sizable restoration in the early 19th century. Essentially the entire skirt area, including the farthingale rim and the protrusions of the knees, were among the reworked areas. It looks very different from other versions of the same portrait. (My guess is that the restorer was trying hard to make the skirt look the way he assumed it would look in life if worn with a farthingale built as proposed by Strutt.) I know we discussed this in more detail in the past, and some of those old posts are probably in my collection of wheel farthingale posts at http://www.netherton.net/robin . But that's the gist of it. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 00:34:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N4YQg5003180 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:34:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N4Y1Od026359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:34:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N4VLh4025131; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:31:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N4TKh4023953 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:29:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a212.in-tch.com [66.62.107.12]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6N49uL05904 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:09:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F1E0F8B.25103D66@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:31:07 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth image sitting in a St. Catherine's Wheel References: <002201c350c1$fd732d80$5a0977d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Boy, it sure does have a definite "edge" to it though, doesn't it? --sue (who also thought the bulletin board complete with cork and tacks was cute!) Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > sorry the url is www.thrednedlestrete.com/Bulletinboard.htm > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lisa Sinervo > To: h-costume@indra.com > Cc: Robin Netherton > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 7:22 PM > Subject: Queen Elizabeth image sitting in a St. Catherine's Wheel > > I just happened to notice an image of Queen Elizabeth sitting in a drum type of farthingale on page 62 of Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd. You can see it here at www.thrednedlestrete.com/Bulletinboard . It's by an unknown artist from 1595 and it shows the silhouette of someone who is sitting down in a wheel farthingale. > > Now from my limited studies of the crinoline era, my belief is that women didn't sit in those hooped skirts, they perched. This image of Elizabeth has her sitting completely in a chair, not perching at all. You can see the arms of the throne so she is truly "sitting in" the chair. And what is shows is something round that is only a few inches wide around her waist. Her knees are sticking right out from under a bumroll type set up. My thought is that if it had hoops all the way down like a spanish farthingale she would more likely be perching. Otherwise she would have to reach completly under her skirt to hoist all the hoops up which would be very ungracious to achieve this silhouette. > > Just some more thoughts to add to the wheel farthingale debate. > > Lisa > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 04:20:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N8KUg5020057 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 04:20:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N8K5Od017871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 02:20:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6N8HKM5021493; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 02:17:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41502.mail.yahoo.com (web41502.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6N8HHM5021431 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 02:17:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030723081711.22518.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:17:11 BST Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:17:11 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Wired coif, who made it? Heeeeeeelp please! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am a bit desperate, because I am totally useless in making any kind of patterns. Thee dimensional anythings throw me, but I suddenly realised that I have no usable coif or hood without a wig for next weekend for the event. I remember someone on the list made a gorgeous looking wired coif, could that person please please contact me and give me a few pointers? I have the linen and the millinery wire, but for the life of me I can't get a pattern to work. Many thanks in advance! Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 08:13:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NCDOg5007511 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:13:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NCCmOd012162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:12:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NCA6qU011867; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:10:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NCA4qU011851 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:10:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-14-63.o1.jps.net ([216.119.14.63] helo=pavilion) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19fIRX-00016Z-00; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 05:10:03 -0700 Message-ID: <001e01c35115$b0a0d800$3f0e77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: , "Robin Netherton" References: Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 05:26:47 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth image sitting in a St. Catherine's Wheel X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > I think someone mentions this image every time the topic comes up ;-) If > you read Arnold's text, you learn that this painting underwent sizable > restoration in the early 19th century. Essentially the entire skirt area, > including the farthingale rim and the protrusions of the knees, were among > the reworked areas. It looks very different from other versions of the > same portrait. (My guess is that the restorer was trying hard to make the > skirt look the way he assumed it would look in life if worn with a > farthingale built as proposed by Strutt.) > I'd read Arnold's notes, she first states that the portrait "may" have be worked from the Hilliard drawing. That is the only comparison to any other similar portrait she gives. Then she goes on to say how it was changed from the Hillard drawing, but it might not have even been based on that to begin with so we don't really know if the protrusions of the knees were worked on or not. Anyway, without knowing just what changes the portrait went through, it's agreed it's not worth much as evidence. However, I wouldn't say that Strutt's version of the farthingale was being depicted, it looks more like a "rolle" to me. Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 08:23:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NCNHg5007525 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:23:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NCMYOd013141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:22:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NCJqqU016807; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:19:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NCJnqU016714 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:19:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m197.in-tch.com [216.166.191.197]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6NC0NL28422 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:00:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F1E7DCF.B2B0D37B@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:21:35 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wired coif, who made it? Heeeeeeelp please! References: <20030723081711.22518.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Time period? --sue N Kipar wrote: > > I am a bit desperate, because I am totally useless in making any kind of > patterns. Thee dimensional anythings throw me, but I suddenly realised that I > have no usable coif or hood without a wig for next weekend for the event. > I remember someone on the list made a gorgeous looking wired coif, could that > person please please contact me and give me a few pointers? I have the linen > and the millinery wire, but for the life of me I can't get a pattern to work. > > Many thanks in advance! > > Nicole > > ===== > Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism > > Email: nicole@kipar.org > URL: http://www.kipar.org > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 08:43:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NChIg5007582 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:43:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NCgkOd014739 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:42:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NCe5qU026648; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:40:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41505.mail.yahoo.com (web41505.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6NCe1qU026603 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030723124000.52380.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41505.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:40:00 BST Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:40:00 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Images of Re: [h-cost] 17th c. Wired coif, who made it? Heeeeeeelp please! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F1E7DCF.B2B0D37B@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ooops, I thought it was kind of obvious when it is me asking the question *laughs!* 17th century. Those coifs were worn throught the 17th c. http://www.kipar.org/resources/resources-images/paintings/dutch/hooch_family_1662.jpg (the two white ones on the ladies sitting) http://www.kipar.org/resources/resources-images/paintings/dutch/hooch_housewife_maid_1660.jpg (the one on the maid) http://www.kipar.org/resources/resources-images/paintings/dutch/hooch_yard_delft_1658.jpg (the woman standing) http://www.kipar.org/resources/resources-images/paintings/dutch/metsu_beanfeast_1655.jpg (What the woman sitting in the front is wearing underneath her loose hood) http://www.kipar.org/resources/resources-images/paintings/dutch/spitze.jpg (same coif, the only blackworked example I ever found) Nicole --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > Time period? > --sue > > N Kipar wrote: > > > > I am a bit desperate, because I am totally useless in making any kind of > > patterns. Thee dimensional anythings throw me, but I suddenly realised that > I > > have no usable coif or hood without a wig for next weekend for the event. > > I remember someone on the list made a gorgeous looking wired coif, could > that > > person please please contact me and give me a few pointers? I have the > linen > > and the millinery wire, but for the life of me I can't get a pattern to > work. > > > > Many thanks in advance! > > > > Nicole > > > > ===== > > Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism > > > > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > URL: http://www.kipar.org > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > > Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 08:54:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NCsAg5007599 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:54:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NCreOd015884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:53:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NCnAqU001790; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:49:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NCn7qU001739 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:49:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.55.44ad733f (4380) for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:48:59 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <55.44ad733f.2c4fde3b@aol.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:48:59 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Men's Victorian Patterns? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try the book, "Splash!" by Richard Martin and Harold Koda. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 09:11:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDBSg5007672 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:11:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDB2Od017754 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ND8LHl013793; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:08:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ND8IHl013728 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:08:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m197.in-tch.com [216.166.191.197]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6NCmrL14834 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:48:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F1E892E.F290010E@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:10:06 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Images of Re: [h-cost] 17th c. Wired coif, who made it? Heeeeeeelpplease! References: <20030723124000.52380.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah , I had kinda figured it was 17th c., given your general preferences, but was drawing a complete blank about any sort of wired coif past the 16th c. Love the links, by the way, but then, I've always really like Dutch paintings. For one, all that light and sky remind me of the sky in Montana (there's sort of a vast emptiness about it, even when it's part of a city scene, or has lots of landscape going on below). --sue, off to work, and wondering if the sky in the Netherlands really is like that..... N Kipar wrote: > > Ooops, I thought it was kind of obvious when it is me asking the question > *laughs!* > > 17th century. Those coifs were worn throught the 17th c. > > http://www.kipar.org/resources/resources-images/paintings/dutch/hooch_family_1662.jpg > (the two white ones on the ladies sitting) > > http://www.kipar.org/resources/resources-images/paintings/dutch/hooch_housewife_maid_1660.jpg > (the one on the maid) > > http://www.kipar.org/resources/resources-images/paintings/dutch/hooch_yard_delft_1658.jpg > (the woman standing) > > http://www.kipar.org/resources/resources-images/paintings/dutch/metsu_beanfeast_1655.jpg > (What the woman sitting in the front is wearing underneath her loose hood) > > http://www.kipar.org/resources/resources-images/paintings/dutch/spitze.jpg > (same coif, the only blackworked example I ever found) > > Nicole > > --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > Time period? > > --sue > > > > N Kipar wrote: > > > > > > I am a bit desperate, because I am totally useless in making any kind of > > > patterns. Thee dimensional anythings throw me, but I suddenly realised that > > I > > > have no usable coif or hood without a wig for next weekend for the event. > > > I remember someone on the list made a gorgeous looking wired coif, could > > that > > > person please please contact me and give me a few pointers? I have the > > linen > > > and the millinery wire, but for the life of me I can't get a pattern to > > work. > > > > > > Many thanks in advance! > > > > > > Nicole > > > > > > ===== > > > Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism > > > > > > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > > URL: http://www.kipar.org > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > > > Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ===== > Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism > > Email: nicole@kipar.org > URL: http://www.kipar.org > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 09:11:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDBlg5007675 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:11:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ND6LOd017276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:06:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ND3dHl011194; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:03:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.nameserver.tv (mail.nameserver.tv [209.144.109.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ND3bHl011160 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:03:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from TEENALAPTOP ([206.148.40.146]) by mail.nameserver.tv (Merak 5.8.6) with SMTP id ABG74101 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:02:39 -0700 Message-ID: <000601c3511a$435eed40$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00b901c34fa5$072b9240$0400a8c0@comcast.net><010d01c34fb7$6abf5780$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> <00ff01c34fba$92911980$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Menswear Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:59:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 3:02 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Menswear > Teena, > > We had to bad storms Wed. & Fri. night. We were on the porch Wed. night and > saw *God*.... when it hits so close that you see the bright light at the end > of tunnel. > > We lost our downstairs air conditioner to a power surge a couple of years > ago. Our homeowners insurance covered it then. Then the same A/C died again > last month. It is still under warranty for parts but not labor. I guess > when I get my George Bush money next month, I can afford to get all these > things fixed that are not covered under warranties. > > Penny Ladnier Well the air conditioner is back on... thank heavens!!! We still have some other problems, but I can deal with them better than no A/C in a two story house in GA in July! Apparently, the lighting fried something inside the cooling system, but luckily the guy had one at the office. This has been a very electrical summer and he said he had about 3 inches of insurance paperwork just for lightening. The storm that got us was pretty crazy. We are used to having lightening storms about 2 or 3 times a week in the summer, but they usually only last about 15-20 minutes and then they blow over. This one started around 9 pm on Friday and didn't end until about 3 or 3:30 Saturday morning. It was hitting around our house that entire time. I am a light sleeper and didn't get a wink of sleep. Plus the puppies were terrified with all of the loud booming. Obligatory costume comment #1: There isn't much you can wear to make it any cooler when it is over 90 degrees inside your house. :) Obligatory costume comment #2: Do not use lightening to perform burn tests to determine fabric fiber content. Teena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 09:14:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDEFg5007680 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:14:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDDoOd017988 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:13:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDB9Hl015066; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:11:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger-ssl.uvm.edu [132.198.101.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDAMHl014706 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:10:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104032.uvm.edu [132.198.104.32]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDALUM032070 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:10:21 -0400 Message-ID: <3F1E8938.4010509@uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:10:16 -0400 From: Hope Greeenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@net.indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Exhibit: Elizabeth I at Nat'l Maritime X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO FYI in case this hasn't been posted yet: The National Maritime Museum at Greenwich has opened an exhibit on Elizabeth I to coincide with the 400th anniversary of her death. The web site is at: http://www.nmm.ac.uk/site/navId/005001 There are a few pictures at the web site, including this one that is less widely published: http://www.nmm.ac.uk/uploads//jpg/LIZ0300.jpg And for those of you who are ardent Elizabethan's, there's an exhibit catalog: http://www.nmm.org.uk/index.cfm?SelectedProductPLUNo=54638 - Hope (hope.greenberg@uvm.edu, U of Vermont) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 09:18:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDIjg5007688 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:18:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDIMOd018486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:18:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDFfHl017334; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:15:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDFcHl017284 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:15:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-15-136.o1.jps.net ([216.119.15.136] helo=pavilion) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19fJSz-0002Wk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:15:37 -0700 Message-ID: <003c01c3511e$d988dd40$3f0e77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:32:22 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] ebay $10 20,000 YEARS OF FASHION X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h6NDIjg5007688 Status: RO four days to go, but the price is great right now http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3539481578&category=1123 Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 09:21:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDLig5007691 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:21:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDLFOd018737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:21:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDIXHl019102; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:18:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.nameserver.tv (mail.nameserver.tv [209.144.109.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDGXHl018036 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:16:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from TEENALAPTOP ([206.148.40.146]) by mail.nameserver.tv (Merak 5.8.6) with SMTP id ABG74101 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:15:36 -0700 Message-ID: <002b01c3511c$122514a0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <111.25ca3217.2c4b806b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Semi-OT: Winter Cloak (non-costume) Interlining/padding Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:12:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know this is horribly period incorrect, but.... I have a friend that wanted a cloak which looked beautiful and was very warm in the winter. She made the cloak from velvet with a satin lining! I am not sure what the exact name is, but she used something like parachute fabric made from nylon. It blocked the wind completely and kept her nice and toasty. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Waddie" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Semi-OT: Winter Cloak (non-costume) Interlining/padding > Thinsulate. I know of people who interline their period cloaks with it, > too. > > Jean > > IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote > >Well, the reason this is "semi-OT" is because the cloak I'm making isn't a > >costume- it's a mundane Vogue cloak. I'm making it out of coat-weight 100% > >cashmere (fabric.com and a 20% coupon. No full price for me!), and I'm > >lining it > >in black polyester slipper or duchess satin- can't remember what it was > >called. It's pretty and shiny. Anyhow. This is supposed to be my > >daily winter > >coat, but my parents are concerned that it will not be warm enough > >(they seem to > >be concerned about a lot of things these days. Must be the whole > >off-to-college separation anxiety thing). So...does anyone have an > >idea of what I can use > >to interline or pad this cloak, so that it's warmer but not bulky? It's > >about mid-thigh length, and I've drafted a hood onto it- it closes in > >the front > >with snaps and has hand slits. I'm thinking of some sort of fusible batting, > >maybe (that way I can fuse it down and then flatline-sew it to either > >the lining > >or the cashmere itself), but I have no idea. Ah..help! > > > >Christine > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- > Jean Waddie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 09:29:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDT6g5007709 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:29:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDQkOd019274 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:26:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDO4Hl022270; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:24:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.nameserver.tv (mail.nameserver.tv [209.144.109.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDO2Hl022240 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from TEENALAPTOP ([206.148.40.146]) by mail.nameserver.tv (Merak 5.8.6) with SMTP id ABG74101 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:23:05 -0700 Message-ID: <008d01c3511d$1dde5f80$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000a01c35099$05b34940$6401a8c0@SG01> <002601c350b8$2cc33120$290a77d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tube-turning Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:19:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That is a great idea! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tube-turning > I have yet to master the tube turning tool but there is another easy way to > make tubes using an overlocker. What you do is you stitch a chain the > length of the final tube you wish to create plus another few inches or > centimeters. Then, without cutting the chain you bring it back towards you > and place it in the middle of the folded fabric you are about to sew so when > you're finished you have your tube sewn with the chain in the middle and the > end of the chain sticking out. Then all you do is pull the end of the chain > that is sticking out and the tube turns inside out along with it and you now > have your finished tube turned right side out. > > I suppose you could also sew the tube with a piece of yarn in the middle, > making sure you don't catch it in the stitching, sew one end of the tube > closed and pull the yarn when you're done to turn the tube inside out. That > would work too. > > Lisa > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 09:48:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDmFg5007770 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:48:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDlbOd021085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:47:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDiuHl002832; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:44:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.nameserver.tv (mail.nameserver.tv [209.144.109.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDirHl002814 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:44:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from TEENALAPTOP ([206.148.40.146]) by mail.nameserver.tv (Merak 5.8.6) with SMTP id ABG74101 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:43:57 -0700 Message-ID: <00d001c35120$07dccca0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth image sitting in a St. Catherine's Wheel Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:40:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I know we discussed this in more detail in the past, and some of those old > posts are probably in my collection of wheel farthingale posts at > http://www.netherton.net/robin . But that's the gist of it. > > --Robin Boy was I ignorant! My vision of the wheel farthingale was the Strutt version. I read through the archive of this topic and now I want to make one! Does anyone have a picture of a french farthingale made from Verna and Robin's research? I understand the description, but it would be very helpful to see it. Teena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 09:54:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDsEg5007788 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:54:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDrfOd021656 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:53:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDp0Hl006768; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:51:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NDovHl006745 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:50:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19fK1B-0002sY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:50:57 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: Images of Re: [h-cost] 17th c. Wired coif, who made it? Heeeeeeelpplease! Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:50:57 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01c35121$72cc7b40$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <20030723124000.52380.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nicole, I am not the person you are seeking, but if you don't get in touch with her. I could probably draft this, shrink it, and send a jpg to you. You would still have to fiddle with it though because your head size and where it falls on your cheek will be different. One question though, do you know what the band around the back of the coif is made from? I can't tell from the pictures. Great pictures by the way. I LOVE that last one! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 10:29:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NETlg5007931 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:29:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NETBOd025235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:29:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NEQTwH028379; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:26:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NEQOwH028309 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:26:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04989 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:52:02 -0500 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:52:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth image sitting in a St. Catherine's Wheel In-Reply-To: <00d001c35120$07dccca0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Beteena Paradise wrote: > Boy was I ignorant! My vision of the wheel farthingale was the Strutt > version. I wouldn't call it ignorant at all -- that's what's in the standard sources. No way you'd have heard the rest unless you were at our paper presentation or running in the same circles. Though (fingers crossed!) I am hoping to see the article in print within a year, which will be a huge help. > I read through the archive of this topic and now I want to make one! > Does anyone have a picture of a french farthingale made from Verna and > Robin's research? I understand the description, but it would be very > helpful to see it. On my long to-do list is "get some photos of the farthingale, and also of someone wearing the whole outfit, and get them posted." I'll need to be taking a bunch of photos for publication for the article, so it'll happen then if I don't get to it earlier. Sorry I can't promise that immediately. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 10:52:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NEqUg5007991 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:52:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NEpnOd028092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:51:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NEn6wH013384; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:49:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.nameserver.tv (mail.nameserver.tv [209.144.109.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NEn4wH013350 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:49:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from TEENALAPTOP ([206.148.40.146]) by mail.nameserver.tv (Merak 5.8.6) with SMTP id ABG74101 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:48:06 -0700 Message-ID: <014201c35128$fe6046d0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth image sitting in a St. Catherine's Wheel Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:44:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well worth the wait, Robin! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth image sitting in a St. Catherine's Wheel > > On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Beteena Paradise wrote: > > > Boy was I ignorant! My vision of the wheel farthingale was the Strutt > > version. > > I wouldn't call it ignorant at all -- that's what's in the standard > sources. No way you'd have heard the rest unless you were at our paper > presentation or running in the same circles. Though (fingers crossed!) I > am hoping to see the article in print within a year, which will be a huge > help. > > > I read through the archive of this topic and now I want to make one! > > Does anyone have a picture of a french farthingale made from Verna and > > Robin's research? I understand the description, but it would be very > > helpful to see it. > > On my long to-do list is "get some photos of the farthingale, and also of > someone wearing the whole outfit, and get them posted." I'll need to be > taking a bunch of photos for publication for the article, so it'll happen > then if I don't get to it earlier. Sorry I can't promise that immediately. > > --Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 10:55:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NEtMg5008007 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:55:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NEspOd028532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:54:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NEqAwH015682; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:52:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NEnWwH013675 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:49:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1e7.dbaecb5 (16086) for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-d13.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.129]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (v95.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID103-3ed63f1ea06e33f; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:49:18 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:49:18 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Tube-turning MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <6CA842D9.2B86D64F.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DCC-MessageCare-Metrics: net.indra.com 1108; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I use the thin spool-o-ribbon, it works well. Constance Allison Pace wrote: >Lisa, this is brilliant! Thanks!!!! >On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 08:03 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com >wrote >> make tubes using an overlocker. What you do is you stitch a chain the >> length of the final tube you wish to create plus another few inches or >> centimeters. Then, without cutting the chain you bring it back _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 11:14:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NFEPg5008151 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:14:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NFACQP001020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:13:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NEt3cc017712; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6NEq1wH015483 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:52:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OmwQoK0+/A4BUDJVW5BBhgQ=">; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:51:54 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H5SHDHK2; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:51:54 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:27:49 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Menswear Message-ID: <20030723.075114.1984.4.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-6,8-9 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Obligatory costume comment #2: Do not use lightening to perform burn > tests to determine fabric fiber content. > > Teena Oh, that was just unfair! Now my keyboard's all wet! 8) Hope everything straightens out for you. That must have been quite the storm. Arlys, still laughing ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 11:57:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NFvwg5008325 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:57:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NFvCOd007975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:57:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NFsUcc003459; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:54:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NFsRcc003439 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:54:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net ([67.124.118.50]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HIH00F1OIUQ08@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:51:58 -0700 From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] What do you think... In-reply-to: <3F1DBEFF.5010707@pcez.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030723083613.00b38db8@pop.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:47 PM 7/22/2003 -0700, Roscelin wrote: >I recently heard about two different books and I was wondering if any of >you can give me your thoughts on them. They are: > >Medieval Tailor's Assistance by Sarah Thursfield >Medieval Military Costume by Gerry Embleton > >I'm waiting for them from the library while I sit and wait for my broken >ankle to heal. Been thinking of ways to disguise the cast.... ;) Before >the next SCA tourney I'm planning on attending. This is just my own opinion (YMMV): They're both good if you're new to historical costuming, but if you've been doing this type of costuming for any length of time, they just duplicate most of the information you already have. This is the reason I've never bought either of them. I seem to remember having some questions regarding costume specifics in each one, but I can't remember them any more, as it was at least a year ago when I last looked at them. Bummer about the ankle! Being in a cast during the summer is awful. Just wrap the entire thing in white bandages--that should get you by. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 13:11:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NHBbg5008556 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:11:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NGuSR7017173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:01:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NGR7lV004189; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:27:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NGQAlV003551 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:26:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A7227403CA; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:26:10 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] What do you think... Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:26:09 -0500 Message-ID: <001901c35137$2036f6b0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030723083613.00b38db8@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Bummer about the ankle! Being in a cast during the summer is awful. Just >wrap the entire thing in white bandages--that should get you by. Or wrap yourself and go as a "leper"- don't forget to wear a bell on you somewhere! (maybe beg for alms? really have a good time with it!) Just my .02 lira Betsy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 14:54:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NIs4g5008992 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:54:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NIrXOd005900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:53:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NIobHX012382; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:50:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NIoVHX012314 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:50:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-12.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.12]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C435F2F924 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:51:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:50:29 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Heather Meadows To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <8819C35C-BD3E-11D7-BA04-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [h-cost] loom widths X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi -- I'm looking for citations regarding common loom widths for Regency/Victorian cloth - could anyone help me with this? thanks! .heather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 15:03:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NJ36g5009011 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:03:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NJ0xOd006977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:01:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NIwFSg020104; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:58:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NIwBSg020047 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:58:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-12.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.12]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B32D02F937 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:58:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:58:11 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tube-turning Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <47985A04-BC7A-11D7-A167-000393D446D6@comcast.net> Message-Id: <9B7A675C-BD3F-11D7-BA04-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO my favorite way to do tube turning is to enclose some rattail cord (it's slick) or mousetail (the smaller version) inside the tube to be turned (as if it were piping, but sew across the tube at one end) leave some extra cord hanging, and then PULL the cord, and it will pull the seam allowance inside. then just cut off the cord, and you have the cord left to use again (minus an inch) works great. I hate hate hate all other tube turning methods! .heather. (I will provide photos if this doesn't make sense...) On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 12:25 PM, Allison Pace wrote: >> You could make the cord if you can't find it in varying widths. I >> have >> great success making piping with bias strips of silk...you could do >> the same >> for cord with all those cool mini tube turner tools. >> >> Sg > Saragrace, I recently used a friend's tube turner, and found that > pushing the inner tube hard enough to get the fabric through the outer > tube, I broke stitches in several places. I was using that > prepackaged cotton/poly bias tape. Do you have any tips on how to > make this work better, because it sure is a time-saver! > Allison P. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 15:30:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NJUGg5009079 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:30:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NJTbOd011052 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:29:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NJQtSg013656; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:26:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NJQpSg013600 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:26:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bec5.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.197]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 14181262BF9 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:53:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001001c3514c$1a081ed0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:56:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] finished the jacket and skirt. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi the list. For those of you who would like to see, i have finally finished the late 18th century outfit: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/caraco_jacket.htm Ben working frome early morning till late night the last days, so i am very tired now. I travel friday, and ill come back with lots of pictures, promise!!! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 15:41:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NJfHg5009097 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:41:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NJepOd012465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:40:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NJc9Sg022781; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:38:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NJc0Sg022681 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:38:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030723193800.PYPW4771.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:38:00 +0100 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030723203449.00de2760@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:35:04 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] loom widths In-Reply-To: <8819C35C-BD3E-11D7-BA04-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-14DD1FB7; boundary="=======2DE8599=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======2DE8599======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-14DD1FB7; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 11:50 23/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Hi -- I'm looking for citations regarding common loom widths for >Regency/Victorian cloth - >could anyone help me with this? Georgian cloth was about 22 inches wide. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======2DE8599======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======2DE8599=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 16:14:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NKEfg5009162 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:14:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NKDwOd016804 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:13:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NKBEt4021391; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:11:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6NKBCt4021367 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:11:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 96580 invoked by uid 1005); 23 Jul 2003 20:11:02 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.119426 secs); 23 Jul 2003 20:11:02 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.119426 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 2003 20:11:02 -0000 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:11:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] finished the jacket and skirt. In-Reply-To: <001001c3514c$1a081ed0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-ID: <20030723161100.O72615-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As always, absolutely breathaking work! Drea On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi the list. > For those of you who would like to see, i have finally finished the late > 18th century outfit: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/caraco_jacket.htm > Ben working frome early morning till late night the last days, so i am very > tired now. > I travel friday, and ill come back with lots of pictures, promise!!! > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 16:17:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NKHTg5009169 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:17:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NKH3Od017300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:17:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NKEXt4024201; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:14:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NKETt4024140 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:14:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19fQ0K-0002UI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:14:28 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tube-turning Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:14:26 -0700 Message-ID: <001201c35157$072d74d0$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <9B7A675C-BD3F-11D7-BA04-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are some really cool variations here on the same theme which I have never tried. What is the cord 'really' used for that you are refering to? I've never heard of either?? -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Heather Meadows Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:58 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tube-turning my favorite way to do tube turning is to enclose some rattail cord (it's slick) or mousetail (the smaller version) inside the tube to be turned (as if it were piping, but sew across the tube at one end) leave some extra cord hanging, and then PULL the cord, and it will pull the seam allowance inside. then just cut off the cord, and you have the cord left to use again (minus an inch) works great. I hate hate hate all other tube turning methods! .heather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 16:49:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NKn6g5009243 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:49:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NKmZOd022127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:48:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NKjot4020030; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:45:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41501.mail.yahoo.com (web41501.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6NKjlt4019882 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:45:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030723204541.63899.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41501.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:45:41 BST Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:45:41 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] What do you think... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001901c35137$2036f6b0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Betsy Marshall wrote: > > > >Bummer about the ankle! Being in a cast during the summer is awful. > Just > >wrap the entire thing in white bandages--that should get you by. > > Or wrap yourself and go as a "leper"- don't forget to wear a bell on you > somewhere! (maybe beg for alms? really have a good time with it!) > Just my .02 lira > Betsy I've done that! Went to Viking York with a brace/cast and wrapped it in bandages, using a big gnarled stick. Worked well. Some people thought it was part of my costume. Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 17:08:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NL8kg5009291 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:08:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NL8IOd025183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:08:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NL5FW8007806; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:05:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail10.nyc.untd.com (outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com [64.136.21.170]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6NL5CW8007687 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:05:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCqsOR17xZfXSlrwsXXI+NhRVVbfVx1S4JQ==">; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:04:22 EDT Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by webmail10.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H5S6PHB5; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:04:22 EDT Received: from [67.73.169.95] by webmail10.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:03:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [67.73.169.95] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Original-From: seamstrix@juno.com Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:03:30 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] finished the jacket and skirt. X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain From: seamstrix@juno.com Message-Id: <20030723.170422.2567.702125@webmail10.nyc.untd.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It looks fantastic!!! I love the color combination, blue and grey is one of my favorites. I also love the style of the jacket. I plan to steal from you....er....use you as inspiration unmercifully! Karen --- "Bjarne og Leif Drews" wrote: Hi the list. For those of you who would like to see, i have finally finished the late 18th century outfit: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/caraco_jacket.htm Ben working frome early morning till late night the last days, so i am very tired now. I travel friday, and ill come back with lots of pictures, promise!!! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 17:21:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NLL0g5009299 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:21:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NLKROd027040 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:20:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NLHhW8019001; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:17:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41505.mail.yahoo.com (web41505.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6NLHbW8018808 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:17:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030723211731.10755.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41505.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:17:31 BST Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:17:31 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: RE: Images of Re: [h-cost] 17th c. Wired coif, who made it? Heeeeeeelpplease! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000d01c35121$72cc7b40$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- "Saragrace T. Knauf" wrote: > Nicole, I am not the person you are seeking, but if you don't get in touch > with her. I could probably draft this, shrink it, and send a jpg to you. > You would still have to fiddle with it though because your head size and > where it falls on your cheek will be different. Oh wow Saragrace, I would really be indebted to you! I attempted to make a pattern tonight, and even when drawing on muslin on my head, I just don't get it! Anything at all, any tips and drawing would be helpful. Thank you. > One question though, do you know what the band around the back of the coif > is made from? I can't tell from the pictures. I am not sure, but I assume it would be a kind of ribbon, either silk or linen tape? Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 18:01:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NM1Ag5009384 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:01:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NM0WOd004693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:00:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NLvo5p023865; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:57:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NLup5p023215 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:57:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-36-97.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.36.97]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6NLuesR016524 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:56:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030723134622.00d67cb0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:47:36 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] ebay $10 20,000 YEARS OF FASHION In-Reply-To: <003c01c3511e$d988dd40$3f0e77d8@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >four days to go, but the price is great right now > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3539481578&category=1123 The second edition has more recent stuff than the first has, and in addition to it, and I don't know if there's a third edition or not. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 22:35:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O2Zqg5009837 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:35:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O2ZKOd007173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:35:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O2WbcZ017287; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:32:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O2WXcZ017251 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:32:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.98] (pm7-098.eos.net [205.133.149.98] (may be forged)) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13439 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:32:30 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:26:18 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200307231800.h6NI0uHY025975@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] some new patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I looked at the new pattern catalogs tonight and have two observations: 1) Some of the "historic" costumes in McCalls are also pictured made up as wedding gowns in the bridal section. They may not be very historic, but they look gorgeous as wedding gowns! 2) Burda now has a "historic costumes" section. Give me a break! Isn't this a European company? That's a good excuse for messing up the American prairie stuff, but the medieval/renaissance things are AWFUL! They aren't even pretty but inaccurate, they're just ugly. My store only has one Vogue catalogue and the other woman would NOT give it up. Sigh. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 22:39:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O2dDg5009842 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:39:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O2ckOd007446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:38:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O2a6cZ019230; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:36:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O2YJcZ018191 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:34:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net ([67.124.118.50]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HII0078HCDREA@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:32:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:29:46 -0700 From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] loom widths In-reply-to: <8819C35C-BD3E-11D7-BA04-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030723184107.00b30408@pop.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:50 AM 7/23/2003 -0700, Heather wrote: >Hi -- I'm looking for citations regarding common loom widths for >Regency/Victorian cloth - >could anyone help me with this? > >thanks! Ok, let's see: From "English and American Textiles: 1790 - Present" by Mary Schoeser and Celia Rufey, p. 17, caption of a photo of 2 pages of a sample book, "...[John] Bradshaw was the warehouseman for Brown & Villing, in Bolton, near Manchester (they wove fine cotton muslins)...He wrote to his father in July, 1827, that his 'prospects were not very flattering,' and considered emigrating to the United States, where 'many keep going and many more would go if possible, weavers get $1 a day'. His notes also suggest that the Bolton 'yard' measurement was, in fact, 30 inches, making the 6/4 yard-wide cloth common that that area 45 inches wide." In other words, they were weaving 45" wide cottons. Also from the same book, pp. 16-17, they note that James Shoolbred & Company in 1891 was selling figured velvets for upholstery that were 21-24 inches wide, and a "Bokara Plush" (possibly a drapery-weight velvet) that was 50 inches wide. On p. 21, a caption notes that the damask design in the Palladian style became popular in Britain in the 1730s and "has since enjoyed widespread and constant use, appearing--as did many other damasks--in widths of both 21 and 25 inches by the early years of the 19th century." On p. 26 is an example of dimity that was purchased by the Copp family in New York in 1800. It is 25 inches wide. On pp. 50 and 51 are 2 examples of linen woven in the US, and it is 30-31 inches wide; on the same page are examples of silk bourettes (a coarse striped silk) that are 19-21 inches wide. From "The Workwoman's Guide" by A Lady, published in 1938 (republished by Opus Publications in 1986), pp 12-13 list the following selvage widths (1 cloth nail is 2 1/4 inches): Calico--13 nails to 2 yards 4 nails Fine white calico--12 nails to 1 1/2 yards Stout calico--14 nails to 3 yards Linen--13 1/4 to 16 nails Lawn--13 nails and up Cambric--3/4 yard Muslin check--1 1/4 yard Blue ckecks--1 to 1 1/4 yards Prints, chintzes, and ginghams--11 nails for dress goods; 14 nails for apron goods Flannel--9 to 16 nails Stuffs--1/2 and 3/4 yard upwards Crepe--1 yard Satin--1/2 to 10 nails Silks--1/2 yard wide HTH. See you next week. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 23 23:35:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O3ZKg5009991 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:35:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O3YJOd012003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:34:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O3Vbwa016015; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:31:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6O3VYwa015978 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:31:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-64-175-44-105.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@64.175.44.105 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jul 2003 03:31:34 -0000 Message-ID: <000d01c35194$7a76c6c0$692caf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] some new patterns Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:34:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail, Have you seen the Vogue stuff on line? They have the most current catalogue and you can even order directly for half off. They don't have any Vogue at the Hancock's near me (I rarely get to Joannes), so I finally stopped fighting it and went internet only. The link is http://www.voguepatterns.com/index.html angela Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "O, what a world of vile ill-favored faults looks handsome in three hundred pounds a year!..." The Merry Wives of Windsor, III, iv - W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 7:26 PM Subject: [h-cost] some new patterns > > I looked at the new pattern catalogs tonight and have two observations: > > 1) Some of the "historic" costumes in McCalls are also pictured made up as > wedding gowns in the bridal section. They may not be very historic, but they > look gorgeous as wedding gowns! > > 2) Burda now has a "historic costumes" section. Give me a break! Isn't this > a European company? That's a good excuse for messing up the American prairie > stuff, but the medieval/renaissance things are AWFUL! They aren't even > pretty but inaccurate, they're just ugly. > > My store only has one Vogue catalogue and the other woman would NOT give it > up. Sigh. > > Gail Finke > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 03:01:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O71Qg5001567 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:01:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O70h1G012032 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 01:00:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O6wVSS023391; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 00:58:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O6wSSS023364 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 00:58:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net ([67.124.118.50]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HII005TFOPE64@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:55:57 -0700 From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] some new patterns In-reply-to: X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030723234913.00b9aa00@pop.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 References: <200307231800.h6NI0uHY025975@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:26 PM 7/23/2003 -0400, Gail wrote: >I looked at the new pattern catalogs tonight and have two observations: > >1) Some of the "historic" costumes in McCalls are also pictured made up as >wedding gowns in the bridal section. They may not be very historic, but they >look gorgeous as wedding gowns! > >2) Burda now has a "historic costumes" section. Give me a break! Isn't this >a European company? That's a good excuse for messing up the American prairie >stuff, but the medieval/renaissance things are AWFUL! They aren't even >pretty but inaccurate, they're just ugly. > >My store only has one Vogue catalogue and the other woman would NOT give it >up. Sigh. Everything that Vogue offers is from 1928-1955(?), including no less than *three* different sets of nifty '30s and '40s hats. I just finished making the 1928 tea frock and slip to wear to the Sunday tea at Costume College, and am fairly pleased with the results. It makes up into a nice summer dress (I made the sleeveless version) suitable for teas, garden parties and other events of that type. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 03:29:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O7Tag5010635 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:29:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O7TC1G013945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 01:29:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O7QlSS005530; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 01:26:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41510.mail.yahoo.com (web41510.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6O7QjSS005491 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 01:26:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030724072640.27415.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:26:40 BST Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:26:40 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] some new patterns To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > 2) Burda now has a "historic costumes" section. Give me a break! Isn't this > a European company? That's a good excuse for messing up the American prairie > stuff, but the medieval/renaissance things are AWFUL! They aren't even > pretty but inaccurate, they're just ugly. It's a German company, and hey, the Americans used to mess up everything European, so guess it's payback time. *LOL* Something else that you should know - but I understand that you don't, who would outside of Germany - these are Faschings/Karneval costumes. This has NOTHING to do even remotely with anything historical, this is a pagenat type festival that happens every years in february and teh origins go way back to the middle ages, the Lord of Mischief ruling etc. People dress up, and that is what it is, a dress-up opportunity, silly songs and lots to drink, and all sorts of weird things. I do agree though, they are gawdawful! ;-) Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 10:11:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OEBVg5016444 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:11:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OE9c1G014326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:09:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OE6rIZ029224; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:06:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.nameserver.tv (mail.nameserver.tv [209.144.109.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OE6oIZ029194 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:06:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from TEENALAPTOP ([206.148.40.88]) by mail.nameserver.tv (Merak 5.8.6) with SMTP id ABG74101 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:05:52 -0700 Message-ID: <005801c351ec$416d26f0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] some new patterns Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:02:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:26 PM Subject: [h-cost] some new patterns > > My store only has one Vogue catalogue and the other woman would NOT give it > up. Sigh. > > Gail Finke > And you let her live??!!?? ;-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 12:05:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OG57g5016737 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:05:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OG231G029310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:02:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OFxK8k017449; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:59:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OFxH8k017332 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:59:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.a4.3a880ea7 (16109) for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-m31.webmail.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (v95.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID121-3eed3f20024b225; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:59:08 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:59:07 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7AC7DF65.3E28B922.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heh. :) For all of us who think that 16c peasant (and upper class) skirts and bodices were one piece - take a look at the central picture in this illumination... http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/juni3.htm Ugh. Gotta go think now. :) Constance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 12:19:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGJXg5016818 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:19:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGGS1G001222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:16:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGDl8k029012; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:13:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6OGDh8k028978 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:13:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 89514 invoked by uid 1005); 24 Jul 2003 16:13:36 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.084061 secs); 24 Jul 2003 16:13:36 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.084061 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 24 Jul 2003 16:13:36 -0000 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:13:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... In-Reply-To: <7AC7DF65.3E28B922.349D0FDF@cs.com> Message-ID: <20030724121243.D8728-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It could also be a bodice & skirt section of different colors. I've seen a bodice & skirt of a different color in a Peasant Feast painting..the waistline at the back was clear to see, and there was no waistband or overlap there. Drea On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 ConstanceFairfax@cs.com wrote: > Heh. :) > > For all of us who think that 16c peasant (and upper class) skirts and bodices were one piece - take a look at the central picture in this illumination... > > http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/juni3.htm > > Ugh. Gotta go think now. :) > > Constance > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 12:30:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGUWg5016865 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:30:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGRZ1G002993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:27:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGOs8k007994; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:24:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGOp8k007891 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:24:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.183.1e567605 (16097) for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:24:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-d15.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.131]) by air-id11.mx.aol.com (v95.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID111-3ee13f200848292; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:24:40 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:24:40 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7317CCC2.4FB7E484.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sure, there's lots of examples that I could rationalize as being a two-colored single piece garment, but when I brought the picture onto my pc and zoomed in, it looks like a pointed bodice sitting on the skirt! The point's even bending out over the bunched-up skirt. Aaaah! Make it go awaaaay! Drea Leed wrote: >It could also be a bodice & skirt section of different colors. I've seen >a bodice & skirt of a different color in a Peasant Feast painting..the >waistline at the back was clear to see, and there was no waistband or >overlap there. > >Drea > >On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 ConstanceFairfax@cs.com wrote: > >> Heh. :) >> >> For all of us who think that 16c peasant (and upper class) skirts and bodices were one piece - take a look at the central picture in this illumination... >> >> http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/juni3.htm >> >> Ugh. Gotta go think now. :) >> >> Constance >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 12:39:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGdkg5016897 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:39:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGao1G004297 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:36:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGY88k015801; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:34:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGY68k015707 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:34:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.3c.32d0b3fd (3310) for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:33:56 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <3c.32d0b3fd.2c516474@aol.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:33:56 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/24/2003 11:28:19 AM Central Standard Time, ConstanceFairfax@cs.com writes: > Sure, there's lots of examples that I could rationalize as being a > two-colored single piece garment, but when I brought the picture onto my pc and > zoomed in, it looks like a pointed bodice sitting on the skirt! The point's even > bending out over the bunched-up skirt. Aaaah! Make it go awaaaay! > Are you talking about the girl in the red and yellow? Cuz it just look like she's wearing a red gown lined with yellow and it's all flipped back and slipped into her aprong to me. Unless I'm like totally blind -Sarra Wryght www.sixteenthcenturystitchery.com (Elizabethan Dress Diaries, etc) Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 12:50:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGoog5016945 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:50:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGlp1G005688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:47:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGjA8k024181; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:45:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6OGj78k024139 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:45:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 11524 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2003 16:45:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail2.inreach.com) (209.142.2.51) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 24 Jul 2003 16:45:06 -0000 Received: from 162.119.64.111 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:45:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51067.162.119.64.111.1059065106.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:45:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... From: To: In-Reply-To: <7AC7DF65.3E28B922.349D0FDF@cs.com> References: <7AC7DF65.3E28B922.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.9) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Heh. :) > > For all of us who think that 16c peasant (and upper class) skirts and > bodices were one piece - take a look at the central picture in this > illumination... > > http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/juni3.htm > > Ugh. Gotta go think now. :) Is your concern that the colors are different and therefore might be two separate pieces? It could be that it is still one piece but she either replaced the skirt or bodice and decided to go with another color. They may really be separate pieces, but I am saying that just because they are different colors, don't *assume* they are separate. Diana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 12:53:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGrmg5016955 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:53:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGoj1G006057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:50:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGm48k026420; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:48:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGjC8k024129 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:45:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.158.21f5da24 (15877) for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:45:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-m11.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.139]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v95.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID74-3e053f200d0f1d0; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:45:03 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:45:00 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2394DC7C.1C90B2B6.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sarra Wryght wrote >Are you talking about the girl in the red and yellow? Cuz it just look like >she's wearing a red gown lined with yellow and it's all flipped back and >slipped into her aprong to me. That's the right figure, but what I'm seeing is two "skirts", one a gooseturd green color (you can only see it near her feet) and the other, yellow, is hiked up and tied with a belt or string or something - that "poof" that you can see around her hips can be seen in a lot of the Cranach paintings (although very formalized), and in many turn of the 16th century calendars. The thing that surprised me is the triangle of red that extends from the bodice over the skirt - that looks to me like a bodice with a point sitting over a skirt (a la renfaire bodice)... Waaaah! It's making me *think* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 12:56:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGuZg5016976 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:56:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGrb1G006548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:53:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGou8k028508; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:50:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGl38k025511 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:47:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19fjF9-0004LZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:47:03 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:47:08 -0700 Message-ID: <005501c35203$38cec3c0$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <20030724121243.D8728-100000@shell.siscom.net> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah! I had been thinking that they did it to, I just couldn't find anything where the meeting point of the skirt and top were clear enough to tell. Can you remember which peasant feast?? Sg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Drea Leed Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 9:14 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... It could also be a bodice & skirt section of different colors. I've seen a bodice & skirt of a different color in a Peasant Feast painting..the waistline at the back was clear to see, and there was no waistband or overlap there. Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 12:59:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGxSg5016989 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:59:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGuS1G006916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:56:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGrm8k000876; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:53:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGpH8k028835 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:51:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19fjJE-0003Nn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:51:16 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:51:21 -0700 Message-ID: <005601c35203$cfea3c80$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <7AC7DF65.3E28B922.349D0FDF@cs.com> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh Constance, that is an amazing picture! Just think we will all be running around in "overall" styles skirts soon!! Did you get a location and approximate 'real' date for the picture/ (I see the 16th century part below). Thank you so much, it has been stashed away in my "PossibleSkirtsFolder" Sg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of ConstanceFairfax@cs.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 8:59 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... Heh. :) For all of us who think that 16c peasant (and upper class) skirts and bodices were one piece - take a look at the central picture in this illumination... http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/juni3.htm Ugh. Gotta go think now. :) Constance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 13:02:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OH2Mg5017035 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:02:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGxQ1G007415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:59:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGv1PO003697; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGqt8k000277 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:52:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19fjKo-00065N-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:52:55 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:52:59 -0700 Message-ID: <005701c35204$0a754430$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <51067.162.119.64.111.1059065106.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Are we focusing on the same skirt? I assume you are refering to the orange and yellow. That is certainly a debatable skirt, but what about the one on the woman (it is a woman right?) in the brown and grey skirt sitting in front. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of dch@inreach.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 9:45 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... > Heh. :) > > For all of us who think that 16c peasant (and upper class) skirts and > bodices were one piece - take a look at the central picture in this > illumination... > > http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/juni3.htm > > Ugh. Gotta go think now. :) Is your concern that the colors are different and therefore might be two separate pieces? It could be that it is still one piece but she either replaced the skirt or bodice and decided to go with another color. They may really be separate pieces, but I am saying that just because they are different colors, don't *assume* they are separate. Diana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 13:05:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OH5Hg5017071 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:05:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OH2L1G007883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:02:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGxePO005735; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:59:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6OGsN8k001387 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:54:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 20131 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2003 16:54:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO castlebooks) (208.1.140.214) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 24 Jul 2003 16:54:22 -0000 Message-ID: <000d01c35204$40e1c2f0$d68c01d0@castlebooks> From: "Janet Davis" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7317CCC2.4FB7E484.349D0FDF@cs.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:54:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm sorry about your theory, but I'm glad you posted the site. The January picture has some great details (including 2 cats!) Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http://www.medievalbookstore.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 13:08:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OH8Fg5017117 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:08:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OH5M1G008208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:05:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OH2ePO008394; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:02:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OGvSPO004058 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:57:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.128.2e9b345e (3310) for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:57:19 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <128.2e9b345e.2c5169ef@aol.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:57:19 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/24/2003 11:51:18 AM Central Standard Time, ConstanceFairfax@cs.com writes: > That's the right figure, but what I'm seeing is two "skirts", one a > gooseturd green color (you can only see it near her feet) and the other, yellow, is > hiked up and tied with a belt or string or something - that "poof" that you > can see around her hips can be seen in a lot of the Cranach paintings > (although very formalized), and in many turn of the 16th century calendars. > The thing that surprised me is the triangle of red that extends from the > bodice over the skirt - that looks to me like a bodice with a point sitting over > a skirt (a la renfaire bodice)... > I still see a woman with a red gown that's lined with yellow, I can see red fabric bunched up with the yellow around her waist. I see a line in the front on the skirt that could be a seam...or a split. yellow kirtle with a green guard? Or a yellow kirtle over a green petticoat? Maybe it's like those magic pictures at the mall, I still see a red gown all bunched up... -Sarra Wryght www.sixteenthcenturystitchery.com (Elizabethan Dress Diaries, etc) Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 13:11:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OHBBg5017132 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:11:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OH8I1G008588 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:08:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OH5aPO010701; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:05:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6OH1NPO007279 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:01:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 57054 invoked by uid 1005); 24 Jul 2003 17:01:16 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.073927 secs); 24 Jul 2003 17:01:16 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.073927 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 24 Jul 2003 17:01:15 -0000 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:01:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... In-Reply-To: <005501c35203$38cec3c0$6401a8c0@SG01> Message-ID: <20030724130034.D10489-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's not by aertsen or beuckelar...some other flemish guy. I got if off of saskia.org, evil purveyors of art slides. hm. Must go check now. Drea On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > Yeah! I had been thinking that they did it to, I just couldn't find > anything where the meeting point of the skirt and top were clear enough to > tell. Can you remember which peasant feast?? > > Sg > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Drea Leed > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 9:14 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... > > > It could also be a bodice & skirt section of different colors. I've seen a > bodice & skirt of a different color in a Peasant Feast painting..the > waistline at the back was clear to see, and there was no waistband or > overlap there. > > Drea > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 13:17:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OHHig5017198 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:17:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OHEQ1G009443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:14:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OHCcPO016771; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:12:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OHCYPO016693 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:12:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from karen (CPE-65-26-82-7.kc.rr.com [65.26.82.7]) h6OHCVPZ025312 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:12:31 -0500 (CDT) From: "Talia" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:12:05 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <2394DC7C.1C90B2B6.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Er...doesn't look so much like a point to me, as possibly the skirt is split in the front and what you're seeing is the red of the bodice in that split between the rolled up "poofs" of the skirt...Then again, I know nothing about clothing of this period. Talia > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of ConstanceFairfax@cs.com > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:45 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... > > > Sarra Wryght wrote > >Are you talking about the girl in the red and yellow? Cuz it > just look like > >she's wearing a red gown lined with yellow and it's all flipped back and > >slipped into her aprong to me. > That's the right figure, but what I'm seeing is two "skirts", one > a gooseturd green color (you can only see it near her feet) and > the other, yellow, is hiked up and tied with a belt or string or > something - that "poof" that you can see around her hips can be > seen in a lot of the Cranach paintings (although very > formalized), and in many turn of the 16th century calendars. > The thing that surprised me is the triangle of red that extends > from the bodice over the skirt - that looks to me like a bodice > with a point sitting over a skirt (a la renfaire bodice)... > > Waaaah! It's making me *think* > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 14:28:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OISlg5017648 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:28:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OIPa1G018710 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:25:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OIMsj3011855; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:22:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80401.mail.yahoo.com (web80401.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6OIMlj3011670 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:22:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030724182242.71098.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.124.118.50] by web80401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:22:42 PDT Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:22:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <2394DC7C.1C90B2B6.349D0FDF@cs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- ConstanceFairfax@cs.com wrote: > Sarra Wryght wrote > >Are you talking about the girl in the red and > yellow? Cuz it just look like > >she's wearing a red gown lined with yellow and it's > all flipped back and > >slipped into her aprong to me. > That's the right figure, but what I'm seeing is two > "skirts", one a gooseturd green color (you can only > see it near her feet) and the other, yellow, is > hiked up and tied with a belt or string or something > - that "poof" that you can see around her hips can > be seen in a lot of the Cranach paintings (although > very formalized), and in many turn of the 16th > century calendars. > The thing that surprised me is the triangle of red > that extends from the bodice over the skirt - that > looks to me like a bodice with a point sitting over > a skirt (a la renfaire bodice)... > > Waaaah! It's making me *think* Bad Constance! I've got a million things to do today, and none of them are getting done because I've been wondering about this same thing too. Actually, it's all Drea's fault. ;-) She mentioned a couple of good books on Beuckelaer and Aertsen, and I just had to order them. When they came, and I spent some time perusing them, I noticed that in several paintings, Joachim Beuckelaer has painted women wearing bodices that were definitely a different color than the skirts they were wearing. One of them in particular, "Kitchen" (1570) is reproduced in color in the catalog for the Beuckelaer exhibition catalog. The woman on the left of the painting is wearing a mustard-yellow bodice over a red kirtle. She's also wearing an off-white apron, and it's obvious it's an apron and not an overskirt by the way it gathered around her waist. There are a couple of others, including a fishwife in his "Market Scene with Ecce Homo." So there's at least a *possibility* that some Antwerpen women were wearing just bodices over a kirtle. I must admit, I'm not as shocked by that as I am by all the women with their hair down! What is going on with this?!? Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 14:40:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OIeIg5017665 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:40:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OIbJ1G020268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:37:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OIYcj3021167; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:34:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OIYWj3021014 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:34:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.c1.3483682d (16109) for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:34:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-m15.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.131]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (v95.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID121-3eed3f2026ac60; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:34:21 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:34:20 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5EDD310C.2B161406.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The woman in the front in the brown is wearing a white apron which is often seen in 1520-30's regional costume...I *think* it's basically two aprons pleated onto a tape that's worn over the shoulders. If you're interested, I can show you more. "Saragrace T. Knauf" wrote: >Are we focusing on the same skirt? I assume you are refering to the orange >and yellow. That is certainly a debatable skirt, but what about the one on >the woman (it is a woman right?) in the brown and grey skirt sitting in >front. > >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On >Behalf Of dch@inreach.com >Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 9:45 AM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... > > >> Heh. :) >> >> For all of us who think that 16c peasant (and upper class) skirts and >> bodices were one piece - take a look at the central picture in this >> illumination... >> >> http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/juni3.htm >> >> Ugh. Gotta go think now. :) > >Is your concern that the colors are different and therefore might be two >separate pieces? It could be that it is still one piece but she either >replaced the skirt or bodice and decided to go with another color. > >They may really be separate pieces, but I am saying that just because they >are different colors, don't *assume* they are separate. > >Diana > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 14:54:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OIsFg5017682 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:54:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OIpI1G022216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:51:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OImZj3002253; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:48:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay2-f80.bay2.hotmail.com [65.54.247.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OImUj3002088 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:48:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:48:25 -0700 Received: from 140.161.57.38 by by2fd.bay2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:48:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [140.161.57.38] X-Originating-Email: [moefen@hotmail.com] From: "" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:48:24 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jul 2003 18:48:25.0007 (UTC) FILETIME=[29C473F0:01C35214] Subject: [h-cost] Victorian Chatelaines X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello all, Please excuse if you receive this twice, I did post to another list as well... Has anyone seen, or have, or know of any pictures of Victorian women wearing a chatelaine. I really need to know where to hook one on. Do they attach to the belt, or do they pin onto the chest, or pin to the waist? I am costuming Shaw's Mrs Warren's Profession set in 1890s, and it refers to Vivi wearing a chatelaine with a pen and paper knife attached. thanks, Moira _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 15:00:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OJ0Tg5017694 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:00:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OIvP1G022980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:57:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OIsfj3007204; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:54:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt20.cluster1.charter.net (remt20.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OIsdj3007063 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:54:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [68.185.167.6] (HELO laptop) by remt20.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with SMTP id 102048937 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:54:32 -0400 Message-ID: <005501c35214$f7cf7e20$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <7AC7DF65.3E28B922.349D0FDF@cs.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:54:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmmm, what about a yellow kirtle with red bodice/jacket over it? I can't get a really close look, but on the uplifted arm the red seems to be coming down under the arm a bit...a sleeve from the jacket pushed up? ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:59 AM Subject: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... > Heh. :) > > For all of us who think that 16c peasant (and upper class) skirts and bodices were one piece - take a look at the central picture in this illumination... > > http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/juni3.htm > > Ugh. Gotta go think now. :) > > Constance > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 15:06:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OJ6Ag5017708 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:06:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OJ2m1G023721 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:02:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OJ0565012846; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:00:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OJ0265012781 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:00:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by scanmail1.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:58:53 -0700 Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id AC6D24910132; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:58:53 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (24-116-185-234.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.185.234]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:58:53 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Victorian Chatelaines Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:00:51 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c35215$e76e1d10$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-116-185-234.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.185.234] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes to all three locations. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of moefen@hotmail.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 1:48 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Victorian Chatelaines Hello all, Please excuse if you receive this twice, I did post to another list as well... Has anyone seen, or have, or know of any pictures of Victorian women wearing a chatelaine. I really need to know where to hook one on. Do they attach to the belt, or do they pin onto the chest, or pin to the waist? I am costuming Shaw's Mrs Warren's Profession set in 1890s, and it refers to Vivi wearing a chatelaine with a pen and paper knife attached. thanks, Moira _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 16:47:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OKl9g5018215 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:47:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OKkT1G007937 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:46:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OKkOHu017319; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:46:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6OKkLHu017289 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:46:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 79313 invoked by uid 1005); 24 Jul 2003 20:46:11 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.079701 secs); 24 Jul 2003 20:46:11 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.079701 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 24 Jul 2003 20:46:10 -0000 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:46:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... In-Reply-To: <005501c35214$f7cf7e20$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> Message-ID: <20030724163708.W19936-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In Textiler Hausrat, there is a clear picture of a woman wearing a gown with a separate, sleeveless, front-lacing bodice over it. However, this is much more the exception than the rule. The picture does appear to show a bit of a point, but this could be caused by the gatherings of the skirt pouf as well as an actual point of the bodice. No way to tell, really. Though, every pic of a skirtless overbodice I've seen laces up the front, which the red bodice does not. If I was going to recreate this, I'd assemble it as: *a white smock *a green petticoat/underskirt *a gown consisting of a red bodice and yellow skirt, cut like the green gown in the foreground, with a girdle around the waist which the yellow *skirt is pulled out over *a black woolen gollar Germans also had "Apron-skirts", separate skirts worn over gowns or kirtles. Just to throw another wrench in, perhaps the gown is red bodice + green skirt, & yellow overskirt... The German apron worn by the woman in purple looks nifty, too--I've never seen it worn under a belt. The breughel-type back & sleeve seams of the purple gown look really exciting, too. Thanks for this pic! Drea On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 lotsofteapots@charter.net wrote: > Hmmm, what about a yellow kirtle with red bodice/jacket over it? I can't get > a really close look, but on the uplifted arm the red seems to be coming down > under the arm a bit...a sleeve from the jacket pushed up? > > ********************** > Rebecca Schmitt > aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot > BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence > > A room without books is like a body without a soul > ---Cicero > > lotsofteapots@charter.net > ********************** > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:59 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... > > > > Heh. :) > > > > For all of us who think that 16c peasant (and upper class) skirts and > bodices were one piece - take a look at the central picture in this > illumination... > > > > http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/juni3.htm > > > > Ugh. Gotta go think now. :) > > > > Constance > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 17:51:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OLpwg5018303 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:51:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OLpN1G016752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:51:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OLpLpj017352; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:51:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OLo5pj016170 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:50:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19fnyJ-000CtN-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:49:59 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:47:34 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... References: <2394DC7C.1C90B2B6.349D0FDF@cs.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Similarly I know very little about this period, but it looks to me like a yellow gown over a white chemise and red stays or undergown/kirtle/thingy. She has unlaced the bodice of the gown, pulled it down and rolled it around her waist to keep cool. That's what I see. The woman at the front left, is the white skirt not some kind of apron, attached by black straps and held in with a black belt? Jean Talia wrote >Er...doesn't look so much like a point to me, as possibly the skirt is split >in the front and what you're seeing is the red of the bodice in that split >between the rolled up "poofs" of the skirt...Then again, I know nothing >about clothing of this period. > >Talia > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On >> Behalf Of ConstanceFairfax@cs.com >> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:45 AM >> To: Historical Costume >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... >> >> >> Sarra Wryght wrote >> >Are you talking about the girl in the red and yellow? Cuz it >> just look like >> >she's wearing a red gown lined with yellow and it's all flipped back and >> >slipped into her aprong to me. >> That's the right figure, but what I'm seeing is two "skirts", one >> a gooseturd green color (you can only see it near her feet) and >> the other, yellow, is hiked up and tied with a belt or string or >> something - that "poof" that you can see around her hips can be >> seen in a lot of the Cranach paintings (although very >> formalized), and in many turn of the 16th century calendars. >> The thing that surprised me is the triangle of red that extends >> from the bodice over the skirt - that looks to me like a bodice >> with a point sitting over a skirt (a la renfaire bodice)... >> >> Waaaah! It's making me *think* >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 18:10:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OMAUg5018375 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:10:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OM9n1G019717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:09:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OM9iEr004258; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:09:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OM9eEr004128 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:09:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp456786pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net[68.51.39.237](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2003072422093501400ckrgse>; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:09:35 +0000 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:08:22 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Allison Pace To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200307241410.h6OEANIa001370@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <5741605C-BE23-11D7-AA13-000393D446D6@comcast.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 452 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 09:10 AM, Heather wrote: > my favorite way to do tube turning is to enclose some rattail cord > (it's slick) or mousetail (the smaller version) > inside the tube to be turned (as if it were piping, but sew across the > tube at one end) > leave some extra cord hanging, and then PULL the cord, and it will pull > the seam allowance inside. Thanks, Heather - excellent description, no photos necessary. What a great solution to a PITA task! I'm gonna hafta find a need for spaghetti straps soon, just so I can practice this technique. ;-) Allison _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 19:10:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ONAug5018492 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:10:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OHiv1G013740 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:45:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OHg0PO009086; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:42:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OHfiPO008821 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:41:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3DE2369CF for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:41:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19fk61-0003MB-00 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:41:41 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... In-Reply-To: <3c.32d0b3fd.2c516474@aol.com> References: <3c.32d0b3fd.2c516474@aol.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:41:41 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My curernt theory is that it's a short-sleeved doublet/jerkin type of thing, worn over a normal kirtle. I base this on the faint line you can see near the waist, suggesting some sort of ummmm I don't know what they're called, the peplumish arrangement you see on doublets. And then if you look at her upper right arm, you can see that there's a bit of a sleeve cap or short sleeve there, because it extends under her arm a bit. We know that peasant women wore mens-style doublets (Drea has pics of some, I think) so this seems less of a stretch to me. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 19:35:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ONZfg5018523 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:35:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ONXw1G000370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:33:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ONXvCm003205; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:33:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ONXrCm003168 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:33:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix, from userid 313) id E5EB32F962; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 452 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:34:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5741605C-BE23-11D7-AA13-000393D446D6@comcast.net> from "Allison Pace" at Jul 24, 2003 05:08:22 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030724233437.E5EB32F962@jabberwock.wonderland.com> From: alice@wonderland.com (Heather Meadows) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hope it works for you! For those that asked -- here's rattail cord. it's used in jewelry and as trim - you can couch it on. I use it as filler for piping, too. http://www.jewelrysupply.com/noframes/rattail.htm (I don't shop at this site, they just had good photos) .heather. > > On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 09:10 AM, Heather wrote: > > > my favorite way to do tube turning is to enclose some rattail cord > > (it's slick) or mousetail (the smaller version) > > inside the tube to be turned (as if it were piping, but sew across the > > tube at one end) > > leave some extra cord hanging, and then PULL the cord, and it will pull > > the seam allowance inside. > > Thanks, Heather - excellent description, no photos necessary. What a > great solution to a PITA task! I'm gonna hafta find a need for > spaghetti straps soon, just so I can practice this technique. ;-) > > Allison > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 19:58:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ONwvg5018564 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:58:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ONur1G002666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:56:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ONuppf015982; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:56:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.nameserver.tv (mail.nameserver.tv [209.144.109.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ONumpf015961 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:56:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from TEENALAPTOP ([206.148.40.140]) by mail.nameserver.tv (Merak 5.8.6) with SMTP id ABG74101 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:55:50 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01c3523e$aaac3b90$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030724233437.E5EB32F962@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 452 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:52:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Meadows" To: Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 7:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 452 > > http://www.jewelrysupply.com/noframes/rattail.htm > (I don't shop at this site, they just had good photos) > I shop here for aiglettes (or points or whatever you want to call them!). You can get gold or silver etched points (long or short) for $12 per 100. Teena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 20:36:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P0aBg5018641 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:36:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P0YX1G006260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:34:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P0YVpf005780; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:34:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P0YTpf005722 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:34:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m253.in-tch.com [216.166.191.253]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6P0F2L04354 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:15:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F207B81.ACC2E7FB@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:36:17 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... References: <5EDD310C.2B161406.349D0FDF@cs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That would be cool! --sue, not saragrace ConstanceFairfax@cs.com wrote: > > The woman in the front in the brown is wearing a white apron which is often seen in 1520-30's regional costume...I *think* it's basically two aprons pleated onto a tape that's worn over the shoulders. If you're interested, I can show you more. > > "Saragrace T. Knauf" wrote: > > >Are we focusing on the same skirt? I assume you are refering to the orange > >and yellow. That is certainly a debatable skirt, but what about the one on > >the woman (it is a woman right?) in the brown and grey skirt sitting in > >front. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > >Behalf Of dch@inreach.com > >Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 9:45 AM > >To: h-costume@indra.com > >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... > > > > > >> Heh. :) > >> > >> For all of us who think that 16c peasant (and upper class) skirts and > >> bodices were one piece - take a look at the central picture in this > >> illumination... > >> > >> http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/juni3.htm > >> > >> Ugh. Gotta go think now. :) > > > >Is your concern that the colors are different and therefore might be two > >separate pieces? It could be that it is still one piece but she either > >replaced the skirt or bodice and decided to go with another color. > > > >They may really be separate pieces, but I am saying that just because they > >are different colors, don't *assume* they are separate. > > > >Diana > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 20:49:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P0nsg5018689 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:49:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P0mD1G007668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:48:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P0mCpf013337; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:48:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P0m9pf013268 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:48:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m253.in-tch.com [216.166.191.253]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6P0ShL09659 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:28:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F207EB6.3A6CB0ED@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:49:58 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... References: <20030724121243.D8728-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Like this one? (from "October" on the same website) http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/ikona/okt06.jpg --sue, drooling.....(I wanna have the time to make something!!!) Drea Leed wrote: > > It could also be a bodice & skirt section of different colors. I've seen > a bodice & skirt of a different color in a Peasant Feast painting..the > waistline at the back was clear to see, and there was no waistband or > overlap there. > > Drea > > On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 ConstanceFairfax@cs.com wrote: > > > Heh. :) > > > > For all of us who think that 16c peasant (and upper class) skirts and bodices were one piece - take a look at the central picture in this illumination... > > > > http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/juni3.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 21:42:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P1g6g5018889 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 21:42:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P1e41G013117 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:40:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P1e2lo010748; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P1e0lo010726 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m253.in-tch.com [216.166.191.253]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6P0aqL12524 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:36:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F20809F.EF9049A5@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:58:07 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... References: <7AC7DF65.3E28B922.349D0FDF@cs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Take a look at the fun they're having in May! There's a lady (center/left, near the pool) with an orangey/salmon dress with sleeves, and some sort of olivey-green bodice..... http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/ikona/mai09.jpg --sue, wondering how to make one of those hats..... ConstanceFairfax@cs.com wrote: > > Heh. :) > > For all of us who think that 16c peasant (and upper class) skirts and bodices were one piece - take a look at the central picture in this illumination... > > http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/juni3.htm > > Ugh. Gotta go think now. :) > > Constance > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 22:03:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P23Vg5018970 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:03:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P21V1G015208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:01:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P21V3R020956; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:01:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P21E3R020852 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:01:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-34-6.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.34.6]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6P20f1h018692 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:01:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030724185157.04fe9bb0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:54:17 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: standing woman (was Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... In-Reply-To: <51067.162.119.64.111.1059065106.squirrel@webmail.inreach.c om> References: <7AC7DF65.3E28B922.349D0FDF@cs.com> <7AC7DF65.3E28B922.349D0FDF@cs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > For all of us who think that 16c peasant (and upper class) skirts and > > bodices were one piece - take a look at the central picture in this > > illumination... > > > > http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/juni3.htm > > > > Ugh. Gotta go think now. :) > >Is your concern that the colors are different and therefore might be two >separate pieces? It could be that it is still one piece but she either >replaced the skirt or bodice and decided to go with another color. > >They may really be separate pieces, but I am saying that just because they >are different colors, don't *assume* they are separate. Who thought they were all one piece? The English don't seem to do this, even if the Germans do tend to. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 22:03:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P23wg5018974 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:03:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P21G1G015187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:01:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P21F3R020866; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:01:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P21D3R020839 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:01:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-34-6.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.34.6]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6P20f1j018692 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030724185329.04fe9730@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:54:04 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: sitting woman (was RE: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... In-Reply-To: <005701c35204$0a754430$6401a8c0@SG01> References: <51067.162.119.64.111.1059065106.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >but what about the one on >the woman (it is a woman right?) in the brown and grey skirt sitting in >front. I'd say that was an apron. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 22:27:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P2RMg5019076 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:27:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P2PQ1G017258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:25:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P2PP3R002262; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:25:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P2PL3R002207 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:25:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.100] (pm7-100.eos.net [205.133.149.100] (may be forged)) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09634 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:25:20 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:19:11 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200307241410.h6OEANIa001370@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: faschings fashions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nicole: Thanks for that clarification. At least the costumes make a little more sense. But in the American Burda catalog the section is called "historic costumes." That's why I was so appalled! Gail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 22:56:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P2uCg5019214 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:56:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P2sG1G020130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:54:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P2sC3R017010; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:54:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P2s43S016958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:54:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6P2swbh029660 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:55:01 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6P2sv3G029658 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:54:57 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:54:57 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <7AC7DF65.3E28B922.349D0FDF@cs.com> <3F20809F.EF9049A5@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <3F20809F.EF9049A5@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307242254.57514.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6P2s43S016958 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 24 July 2003 08:58 pm, Sue Clemenger wrote: > Take a look at the fun they're having in May! > There's a lady (center/left, near the pool) with an orangey/salmon dress > with sleeves, and some sort of olivey-green bodice..... > http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/ikona/mai09.jpg > --sue, wondering how to make one of those hats..... The sleeves, to me, look like they don't match the skirt--I would guess they are just pin-on sleeves. As for the bodice, from what I see it could just be an unusually long partlet. -- Cathy Raymond “No man is rich enough to buy back his past.” Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 22:57:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P2vdg5019226 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:57:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P2tt1G020261 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:55:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P2tsDE017825; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:55:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P2tkDF017771 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:55:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6P2uebh029690 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:56:43 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6P2uesr029688 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:56:40 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:56:39 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <2394DC7C.1C90B2B6.349D0FDF@cs.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307242256.39898.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6P2tkDF017771 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 24 July 2003 05:47 pm, Jean Waddie wrote: > Similarly I know very little about this period, but it looks to me like > a yellow gown over a white chemise and red stays or > undergown/kirtle/thingy. She has unlaced the bodice of the gown, pulled > it down and rolled it around her waist to keep cool. That's what I see. That sounds very plausible to me, too. -- Cathy Raymond “No man is rich enough to buy back his past.” Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 23:00:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P30mg5019239 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 23:00:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P2xA1G020517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:59:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P2x9DE019558; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:59:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P2x0DF019502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:59:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6P2xsbh029714 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:59:57 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6P2xsRG029712 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:59:54 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:59:53 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20030724163708.W19936-100000@shell.siscom.net> In-Reply-To: <20030724163708.W19936-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307242259.53849.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6P2x0DF019502 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 24 July 2003 04:46 pm, Drea Leed wrote: [text cut here] > Germans also had "Apron-skirts", separate skirts worn over gowns or > kirtles. Just to throw another wrench in, perhaps the gown is red bodice > + green skirt, & yellow overskirt... Interesting. Thanks for the information. That was my original guess--that the yellow garment is simply a skirt, being worn over a red sleeveless kirtle. However, there's an awful lot of fabric rolled up at the top for the yellow garment to be only a skirt. So I'm inclined to buy the "it's a yellow gown or kirtle with the bodice rolled down to the waist" theory. -- Cathy Raymond “No man is rich enough to buy back his past.” Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 24 23:02:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P32Hg5019248 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 23:02:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P30d1G020634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2003 21:00:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P30cDE020219; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 21:00:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P30UDF020166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 21:00:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6P31Obh029744 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 23:01:27 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6P31Ndc029742 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 23:01:23 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 23:01:23 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20030724182242.71098.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030724182242.71098.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307242301.23390.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6P30UDF020166 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 24 July 2003 02:22 pm, Dawn Jacobson wrote: [text cut here] > I must admit, I'm not as shocked by that as I am by > all the women with their hair down! What is going on > with this?!? Must be one heck of a party they're having. :-) -- Cathy Raymond “No man is rich enough to buy back his past.” Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 25 03:13:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P7Dng5016019 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 03:13:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P7Be1G011392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Jul 2003 01:11:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P7BciO020930; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 01:11:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6P7BaiO020885 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 01:11:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.a7.3452358a (4362) for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 03:11:27 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 03:11:27 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faschings fashions To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 108 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/24/03 10:27:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: << Thanks for that clarification. At least the costumes make a little more sense. But in the American Burda catalog the section is called "historic costumes." That's why I was so appalled! >> That sounds more like a translation issue than anything else- possibly because to the non-costumer, "carnivale" costumes wouldn't sell well except around, say, Mardi Gras. I remember seeing one that I thought was pretty when I was rummaging for cloaks...except that it had bows or something I would have skipped. Christine The Anti-Bow. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 25 09:20:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PDKAg5024662 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:20:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PDIG1G008803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Jul 2003 07:18:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PDIDHv027576; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 07:18:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6PDIAHv027555 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 07:18:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 80953 invoked by uid 1005); 25 Jul 2003 13:18:06 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.573168 secs); 25 Jul 2003 13:18:06 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.573168 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 25 Jul 2003 13:18:05 -0000 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:18:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... In-Reply-To: <3F207EB6.3A6CB0ED@in-tch.com> Message-ID: <20030725091754.L60534-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yup, pretty much the same thing as that. Must make more garb! Drea On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, Sue Clemenger wrote: > Like this one? (from "October" on the same website) > http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/ikona/okt06.jpg > --sue, drooling.....(I wanna have the time to make something!!!) > > Drea Leed wrote: > > > > It could also be a bodice & skirt section of different colors. I've seen > > a bodice & skirt of a different color in a Peasant Feast painting..the > > waistline at the back was clear to see, and there was no waistband or > > overlap there. > > > > Drea > > > > On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 ConstanceFairfax@cs.com wrote: > > > > > Heh. :) > > > > > > For all of us who think that 16c peasant (and upper class) skirts and bodices were one piece - take a look at the central picture in this illumination... > > > > > > http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/juni3.htm > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 25 11:41:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PFf5LY001941 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:41:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PFdJ1G023778 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:39:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PFdEkH026425; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:39:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PFdAkH026355 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:39:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f51.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.81]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 32A6C26291A for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:39:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c352c2$f4437320$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:39:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] talk about stress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello the list, I can tell you that i am exhausted now. Finished the last things for the event 4 hours before my train leaves for Stockholm. My my there were times i was absolutely desperate, thinking i would never make it, but now, i can finally rest. I fear for the event for tomorrow, we have a heatwawe here, and i think it is the same in Sweden, although it is about 1000 km. further north. Running arround wearing a wig in the sunshine and the heat, .....puh! But i look forwards for the event. 80 people has signed for the day, and thinking about 80 people running arround looking wonderfull in their 18th .century garments in a beautifull English lanscape park, would be all the troubble worth and travel two.............. Pictures next week, promise Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 25 12:33:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PGXkLY002216 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:33:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PGVp1G000307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:31:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PGVmx3006537; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:31:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6PGVhx3006422 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:31:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCsNm+yrlNWetHtgo39MsLp51lmwZYsl0wA==">; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:31:35 EDT Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H5XTVF4R; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:31:35 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:26:40 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] talk about stress Message-ID: <20030725.102641.-235812363.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6-8 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I feel your pain, Bjarne! I will be running around in full Elizabethan court dress this weekend with heat, humidity, and thunderstorms predicted! Yikes! Are we nuts, or what? I know that you will look fantastic and the new dress you made will be stunning. I shall await your pictures with breathless anticipation........of course with the full Elizabethans and the high humidity, I may be a bit breathless anyway....... ;-) Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 25 14:30:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PIUKLY002837 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:30:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PISW1G015208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:28:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PISUfo028890; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:28:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PISPfo028799 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:28:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19g7Il-0001LH-00; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:28:24 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:28:30 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01c352da$8cf1a260$6401a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <5EDD310C.2B161406.349D0FDF@cs.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6PISPfo028799 cc: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com Subject: [h-cost] Aprons: Was :Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Darn, I was so hoping that was a skirt. Yes indeedy I would like to hear more about aprons. I still think I will have to make one like that someday.....I know no one in a competition would accept the logic that if they had aprons like this they would have had skirts, but.......sure makes sense to me. If you mess the bottom of your gown up, you could so easily cover it with a skirt, or if your upper bodice wore out, you might be able to recycle it into a skirt....RATS! -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of ConstanceFairfax@cs.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:34 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sometimes ya get blown out of the water... The woman in the front in the brown is wearing a white apron which is often seen in 1520-30's regional costume...I *think* it's basically two aprons pleated onto a tape that's worn over the shoulders. If you're interested, I can show you more. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 25 15:53:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PJrWLY003074 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:53:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PJpc1G026658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:51:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PJpUOx029664; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:51:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from SRVNODE7.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6PJpPOx029526 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:51:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by SRVNODE7.cho.org; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:51:18 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:54:45 -0700 To: h-costume From: Lynn Downward Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] LA Fabric District hints (LONG) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All, Not costume related except for the fact that it IS related to Costume College in Los Angeles starting on July 31st. I apologize to those people who won't be attending for such a long message. Please delete now. It's getting very close to Costume College time and since I've been looking through my info I thought I'd share what I gleaned from the list about LA's Fashion district shopping before last year's college. I snipped heavily but tried to keep the writer's names whenever possible. By the way, there is a website for the fashion district, http://www.fashiondistrict.org/Index.html It lists stores, restaurants and all sorts of info that may be helpful to you. I want to share, but I also would like to get any updates from those people who have been to the fabric areas of LA since last summer. Someone mentioned a millinery district; could you please give some info on that? Cheers, LynnD LA garment district from the list members, advice on which stores are best? Well, there are a lot of shops around there that will be selling various types of wools, brocades, linens, silk etc. It all depends on who you hit and what their prices are. I highly recommend Moon Fabrics for wools - they're on Wall, facing toward Maple - look for the green facade. For beads, Berger's is great but they close early on Friday (like around 3:00PM) and are closed on Saturday and Sunday (Orthodox Jewish). Berger's is on 8th St. You can also hit Bohemian Crystal, which is right around the corner on Maple, btwn 8th and 9th. They're open on Saturday and on some things (particularly good rhinestones their prices are better than Berger's. There are misc. trim/lace shops all over - my favorite is Trim City which is about 2 doors from Bohemian Crystal. Also try to hit Embee Fabrics on the inside of the building that is on the NW corner of the Maple/9th intersection - George is real nice, doesn't give you heat over using credit cards like some of the shops, and gives a nice discount if you flirt. For upholstery brocades, check out Holiday Fabrics (I think it's now called Wall Fabrics) - it's on Wall, just south of 9th street and is huge. They also have lots of those huge upholstery trims, tassels and the like. They're upholstery prices are better than Levine's. And of course hit Michael Levine's if only to comparison shop with the other stores - it's on Maple, about half way between 9th and 10th. 2 huge stores just opposite from each other (one regular, one upholstery). Carolyn ************************* Regarding the Garment District: BTW it's also a great place to pick up really great deals on clothes, shoes, etc., as jobber shops abound. Anyway, the bargains Margo talks about are all real. The farther you get away from the center of it all (around 8th and Maple), toward San Pedro St. the cheaper it gets and the more willing folks are to bargain. They've cleaned it up since I lived there (in the Stone Age) I used to have to step over drunks to get in the door of some establishments. Still not the kind of neighborhood you want to be found in after dark. I find that I can fly to LA, rent a car, shop a show, and still save money compared to what I would spend in Santa Fe, plus the selection is amazing. Cheryl ************************* I find that just wandering the stores is a good idea. Stock varies widely and you never know what you will find. The best area for searching IMHO is near the intersection of 9th and Maple. There is also a good store on the corner of 9th and Wall (NE corner) that had some good looking stuff a few weeks ago when i was there. But with about 40 shops in the area, BROWSE!! You never know what you'll find. there are no sari shops in the garment district. The best place to buy saris is the Little India area, which is about 16 miles SE of downtown in Artesia. Take your favorite freeway to where the 91 and 605 intersect, and get on the 605 Eastbound (or if you're coming from points farther east, you'll be okay if you get on the 91 West bound). Get off the 91 at Pioneer Blvd, which is the first exit east of the 605. Go south about 1 mile - the sari area is on Pioneer Blvd between Artesia Blvd and South street. Have fun! Carolyn ************************* >We bought mostly from B. Black and Sons - wools and silk/wools for >Dickens Faire costumes. This time I bought flowers and ribbons from >Ruban et Fleur; seam bindings, polyamide threads from B. Black >(moves like butter through fabric for handwork!). I didn't find any >great deals on silk this time, so I passed. For some reason, >Bergers was mostly uninspiring and I didn't do too much damage >there, under $20. One friend did though; she needed stuff for her >daughter's new court dress. Unfortunately, Bohemian Crystal was >closed by the time we got there and we couldn't get back to it >another day. It was 4:00 and the door said they were open until >4:30 but everything was locked up tight. We skipped Michael Levine, >using the time to go to more of the smaller no-name big deals stores >and found a few nice bargains, mostly for non-costuming projects. >We went to Hollywood Fancy Feather Co.and spent a bundle. We found >a store that sells to fashion schools, etc. Vecchiarelli Bros. They >sell pins by the pound, had a whole wall of scissors, steamers, >irons, ironing boards, rulers and french curves. We each bought a >roll of gridded paper for around $35, 45 inches x 100 or 200 yards. >The roll out of the box is about 10-12" across. It was even cheaper >there than at B. Black & Sons. LynnD Hollywood Fancy Feather Co. 112140 Sherman Way North hollywood 800-828-6689 They're in a warehouse area and we drove right past it before we saw the sign. If you go with someone, make keeping an eye out the rider's job. If you go alone, just watch carefully. They are in one of the first buildings in the complex, not facing the street. Make sure to freeze your feathers once you get home; we found bugs in them. Vecchiarelli Bros, Inc. 8am - 4:30 pm "LA's largest pattern & designroom supply center" "Specializing in shears & scissors for clothing industry" 121 W. 15th Street LA, CA 90015 213-749-5944 B. Black & Sons 548 S Los Angeles St Los Angeles, CA 213-624-9451 Ruban et Fleur is upstairs in a antiques mall on W? Sepulveda Blvd. ************************* >-Poster: Icyravens@aol.com > Don't have much time, so this is more a survival guide than >store recommendations. I always park at a lot right next to Berger >Beads (413 E. Eighth St.) it's $7 for the whole day and easy to >access. -Don't- go into the bead stores first... save that for after >you've bought fabric. *grins* I recommend hitting -every- store... >every one has lots the same, but something different. Pack a lunch, >cause the fast food places are kind of.questionable, lots of water, >and good walking shoes. Stores open 9am and close -promptly- at 5pm. >K. ************************* <> I concur. The corner of 8th and Maple is sort of a central starting off point. Don't spend money at Michael Levines until you exhaust the smaller, cheaper stores surrounding it. Across the street from Michael Levines is a sort of fabric mini-mall. Lots of great bargains to be had there a couple of years ago and a good selection. The further you go east toward San Pedro street, the cheaper fabric gets and the more homeless people you encounter. If you think something is too expensive, often the shop owner will lower the price. If you go west, you eventually run out of fabric stores and encounter clothing jobbers (that can be an entire additional day), there is also a jewelry district, fur district (yuck!), millinery area. Cheryl ************************* >Cheryldee@aol.com wrote: >>I always park at a lot right next to Berger Beads (413 E. >>EighthSt.) it's$7 for the whole day and easy to access.>> > >Actually, if you're thinking of the huge lot that used to be across >the street from Berger's, it's no longer there. They built another >building on it in the last year. They do have a parking garage on >the roof, however (and fabric/trim shops on the ground floor). I >usually park at the lot behind Levines, across the street from Home >Fabrics. It's $5.00 for the day and has shade. >> >I think the mall you're thinking of is actually kitty corner from >Levines - it's on the corner of 9th and Maple. Actually, that >corner has little strip malls, all of fabric stores, on every >corner. > >> If you think something is too expensive, often the shop owner will >>lower the price. > >Definitely bargain. All of them will lower the price if you >hesitate or hint that you want more than a couple of yards, except >at Levines, Home Fabrics (which has a great upholstery selection >including nice renaissance brocades and their upholstery's are >cheaper than Levine's upholstery prices), and Kashcool, which is on >9th halfway between Maple and Wall. Berger's and the other bead and >trim shops also don't bargain much, but fabric is easy to get a >discount on. > >My favorite shops are Fred's Fabrics (north side of 9th, about 4 >doors down from Maple, just before the alley - has silk dupioni with >beads already sewn to it in a lattice pattern for $20/yard), Embee >Fabrics in the mall on the NW corner of Maple/9th, Corner Fabrics on >the SW corner of 9th/Maple, Home Fabrics (check out the remnant >table in the back on the first floor, and in the niches all the way >around - I found a "remnant" of their silk brocade for $15/yard >upstairs in a niche with all the silks), Kashcool, Moon Fabrics on >Wall north of 9th, and Fiesta Fabrics. Other shops I hit at random >- they all have something just a little different, or identical to >the guy across the street for a different price and you can use them >against each other. ;-) I haven't had a chance to check out the new >places on the north side of 9th in the new building that used to be >a parking lot. > >Oh yeah - places to eat. >There is an El Pollo Loco on the corner of 9th & Santee (and they >serve coffee, Maggie!) as well as a McDonalds on Santee closer to >10th. I believe there is also now a Burger King on Santee in the >"clothing" areaof the district rather than the fabric section, >farther south of McD's. There are small shops around - the chinese >place on Maple north of 9th is okay, not terrific. There is also a >Kosher place on 9th, between Maple and Santee (west of Maple). > >Bathrooms are the BIG issue in the fabric district. Levines has a >public one. Less well known is that Home Fabrics has one on the >second floor that they let customers use. McDonalds also has one. >If El Pollo Loco has one, it's the best kept secret in the district >but I've never seen it, and I don't know how they can have a >restaurant without one. George, at Embee Fabrics, will also let you >have the key to the bathroom in that building if you ask him. >Carolyn ************************* >-Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger >What I remember from the Costume College raid on it last year: > >Embee's is great. Most of the shops in that building are great. >One across from (I think) Embee's is where I got fabric for the >houppelande I made last year (for a fantasy thing, not authentic, >but...). It was off-white with a brownish-gold (not metallic) >floral, brocade. The neat thing was it was drapery fabric, 108" >wide. $12 per yard!!! 10 yards of it made a huge houp for me with >sleeves to the floor and a pretty long train, and left enough to >make a smaller one for my hubby. What seemed to be big last year >was chinese-style brocade. Saw tons of it. > >Embee's will let you have the bathroom key for that building. So >will the person in the tiny little snack shop there, if you buy >something. That seems to be the key (no pun intended) to using >bathrooms - buying something. El Pollo Loco will give you the key >if you are a customer. So will the little Chinese food place (which >isn't bad - it's better than Pollo Loco, in my book). Take water. >Wear sunscreen and good walking shoes. If you can, bring a wheeled >tote or luggage/grocery cart (not the big ones, the ones you see >little old ladies walking home from the grocery with), if you expect >to buy a lot. Fabric gets heavy. A couple of sturdy canvas bags at >least will be helpful, as the flimsy plastic shopping ones can give >out. >Hoping to go there again this year Sandy (Lincoln, NE) -- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 25 19:52:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PNqwLY003713 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:52:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PNp81G023754 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:51:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PNp6Uv012174; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:51:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PNp1Uv012146 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HIL00HNMU8T7G@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:39:00 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] LA Fabric District hints (LONG) In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030725163339.02e98af0@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h6PNqwLY003713 Status: RO Hi LynnD, Thanks for sharing your info on the LA Fabric District. I saved off the directions that Dawn and Julie shared, along with some of their hints. This is in the archives, but I thought I would repost for those who are interested. If not, like LynnD said, just delete this message. I ended up signing up for the tour myself, but I will be keeping this for future reference. I look forward to next week, and meeting with people from this list. I hope to find a way to put a red H on my badge (that is the thing to do, yes?) and meet up with as many of you all as I can. Kimiko ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ OK, last question first. Print this e-mail out and put it in your Costume College notebook, as these are the best directions, from somebody used to driving down there from the hotel. Take Sherman Way (the main street in front of the hotel) EAST to the 405 Fwy. Get on the 405 going SOUTH. When you get to the interchange of the 405 and the 101, take the 101 SOUTH (Los Angeles). Take the 101 SOUTH to the interchange of the 101 and the 170, and get onto 170 SOUTH (Los Angeles). Take the 170 SOUTH to the interchange of the 170 and the 110 Fwy, and get onto the 110 SOUTH. It's the first exit of the interchange, and only 1 lane, so be ready for it. Once you are on the 110 Fwy, you'll want to get over to the left about 3 lanes, or you'll immediately exit off the freeway into downtown Los Angeles. Take the 110 SOUTH to the 8th Street/9th Street offramp and exit. Go straight through the first intersection (8th Street) and turn left at the 2nd intersection (9th Street). If you're going the right direction, you'll go under the freeway. Continue on 9th street about mile. They've now marked the Garment District with big City signs saying "Los Angeles Fashion District," so you'll know when you get there. The most central lot to park is on top of the building that is on the northwest corner of 9th and Wall (Shannon Fabrics is on the Corner of 9th and Wall). Turn left on Wall, go up about 100 feet, and you'll see the entrance to the parking lot (inside the building, up a ramp). The last time I was there (about 3 weeks ago), it was $4 to park all day. Now to your first question: Best days. Mondays are the best days, as everybody is open. Sunday is OK (but you'll miss the Tea Party). Saturday is bad, as many of the jobbers are Jewish, and are closed for the Sabbath. I hope this answers your questions. If you need more information, try to touch bases with me at Costume College. Dawn ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Kimiko: Those are pretty good directions Dawn gave you, but there are a couple of incorrect bits that I'd like to correct. They are just confusing enough to someone unfamiliar to LA freeways to cause a real problem. Go east on Sherman Way, and then onto the south 405 - so far you're fine. You'll transition from the 405 south to the 101 South, although you're actually physically going east. Don't worry about that, just go on the 101 South. You want to look for the lanes that are marked "Los Angeles", those are the ones you want. You do NOT want the lanes marked "Ventura". Now to correct the most worrisome part of the directions. Ignore the part about the 170. The 170 part of the 101 doesn't affect you when you head downtown, it only matters when you're coming back, and only then because you don't want to go there. Once you're on the 101, stay in the right three lanes. About 4 miles down the freeway will split between the 101 and the 134. You want to stay on the 101. Do not take the 134. (Please trust me on this - I live right by the 170 and could drive this in my sleep. This is where I meant dangerous - if you're looking for a sign that says "170" right here, and you never see one, you're going to get awfully confused and that's very dangerous when you're going 65mph.) The rest of the directions are fine, but I'd like to offer an alternate once you get downtown. Instead of taking the 110, stay on the 101, and go three more exits to Los Angeles Street. Get off and make a right onto Los Angeles street. Drive down Los Angeles street until you get to 9th. Make a left onto 9th. Maple is two short blocks away. What I do is I start looking for a parking space the moment I turn onto 9th, and if I don't find one, there are several parking lots scattered around the area. The intersection of 9th and Maple is the heart of the garment district. My favorite store is Kashcool, at 418 E 9th Street, about 1/2 block east of Maple. They've got one of the best selections of fabrics around, their prices are some of the lowest, and they've got a fascinating trimming department tucked in the back of the store. After that, there are a couple of trimming stores in the 800 block of Maple that I like (can't remember the names) and basically you just walk from store to store looking at the fabrics. It becomes sensory overload after a while, there's just so MUCH down in the garment district! When you head back to the hotel from the garment district, you can go one of two ways - either go back north on Los Angeles street until you get to the 101 freeway, or go one block south of 9th to Olympic and take that to the 110 freeway. Getting on both can be confusing. If anyone wants more info, please feel free to email me and I'll provide exhaustively detailed directions. Julie ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Food court/places to eat: Almost all the places to eat are on the west side of Santee, in the 900 block. Selection includes an "International Food Court," Micky D's, and Subway. There's also an El Pollo Loco on the corner of 9th & Santee. ATM: There's an ATM in the little convenience market/liquor store on the corner of either 9th & Santee or 9th & Los Angeles. BRING CASH, and be ready to haggle, especially if you're buying large quantities (entire rolls or bolts). Almost everybody loves to do business in cash, and are willing to negotiate on a price, especially if you can say, "...but it's only _______ down the street at _________." As per any business where most of the buying/selling is for wholesale reasons, you get a better deal if you buy gigantic quantities. The last time I was down, I didn't spend more than $1/yd for any of the fabrics I bought more than 10 yards of (including undyed cotton denim for flat-lining). They also like to make a "lot deal" on unmeasured rolls, so if you're any good at estimating fabric amounts, you can pick up some good bargains. Stores to check out (everybody has their favorites): Berger's Beads: 8th Street, between Maple & Wall. Need I say more? Everything in the way of beads, gems, jewelry findings and supplies. Button Expo: 8th/Santee(?): The best price on buttons, especially metal ones. Linen, wool: Moon Fabrics, 842 Wall and L.A. Magic Fabrics (800 block of Wall). Last time I was in Moon's (4/15/03), linen was running for $2.50/yd for shirtweight in weird colors (anybody for periwinkle blue?), $4.50/yd for white in various weights. Wool was $8-$10/yd. Last year, a group of us was able to strike a deal at L.A. Magic for shirt weight linen at $3/yd, but we bought 150 yards. 9th Street between San Pedro and Los Angeles is now filled with little jobbers, including Venise Fabrics (high-quality silk dupioni for $6.50 yd), Gift Fabrics (everything either $1/yd or $2/yd), Manny's Fabrics, Manny's Fabric Outlet (everything $1/yd), Fabrics Fabrics (awesome selection of silks and linens, almost all under $6/yd), Fred L.A. Fabrics (upholstery fabrics and cotton velvet--go there if you can't find it cheaper elsewhere); Allen Textiles (upholstery fabrics and better prices than Fred), and about 100 other jobbers. Home Fabrics and Michael Levine's used to be terrific bargains, but no more. Most of the fabrics at Home Fabrics are available elsewhere for less, and Michael Levine's prices are even higher than JoAnn's (!). No list of stores and their contents can be complete, as the jobbers go in and out of business, and their stock changes as the market changes (last month everybody had Hawaiian prints; it will probably be winter fabrics in August). Fortunately, it's all pretty accessible by foot, as the stores are concentrated in the 10 blocks along both sides of 9th. I'm known as a "power-shopper," and I can cover the entire fabric area in about 7 hours. Note for wool lovers: B. Black & Sons is NOT in this area. They are up at 548 S. Los Angeles St., about 4 long blocks away. While they may not be the best bargain in the universe, you can still buy fine wool for less than you'll pay at Hancock's, JoAnn's or other local fabric stores (because they're buying it from B. Black's and marking it up), and it is the only place to get ultra-luxe fabrics like 100% cashmere and camelhair. Additional note: In checking their Web page, it seems that B. Black & Sons is now handling fine silks and woolens under the "Kings Road" name. Something else to check out. Thanks to whoever it was (I've forgotten--sorry!) that posted corrections to my directions. I've made the drive so many times the car is simply on auto-pilot, so I don't pay attention to the freeway name/number changes. Dawn ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com_______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 25 21:55:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q1tTLY003952 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:55:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q1rm1G004326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:53:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q1rivi013078; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:53:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q1rgvi013020 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:53:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a249.in-tch.com [66.62.107.49]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6Q1YGL10579 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:34:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F21DF93.C04F2059@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:55:31 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] talk about stress References: <000701c352c2$f4437320$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We have heat, here, too, so I truly sympathize. I'm sure you'll have an absolutely wonderful, wonderful fashionable time! Make sure you stay hydrated by drinking lots and lots of water--it's a big help to me when I'm in lots of costume. It will be wonderful to see all your pictures next week! --sue, who's about to spend her weekend figuring out what to variously throw out, give away, or put in storage before she moves next month....ugh..... Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hello the list, > I can tell you that i am exhausted now. Finished the last things for the > event 4 hours before my train leaves for Stockholm. > My my there were times i was absolutely desperate, thinking i would never > make it, but now, i can finally rest. > I fear for the event for tomorrow, we have a heatwawe here, and i think it > is the same in Sweden, although it is about 1000 km. further north. Running > arround wearing a wig in the sunshine and the heat, .....puh! > But i look forwards for the event. 80 people has signed for the day, and > thinking about 80 people running arround looking wonderfull in their 18th > .century garments in a beautifull English lanscape park, would be all the > troubble worth and travel two.............. > Pictures next week, promise > > Bjarne > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 25 22:08:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q28vLY003972 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:08:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q2711G005294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q26x0F018787; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.179]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6Q26w0F018772 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:06:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-119-193-186.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.119.193.186 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jul 2003 02:06:57 -0000 Message-ID: <009d01c3531a$985b20f0$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:06:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Costume College X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Okay, I know I'll never be organized enough to put a red H on my name tag, so... do we want to organize a get together for h-costumers? What about Friday night? Or at the Gala? - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 25 22:26:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q2QjLY004052 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:26:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q2P71G006567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:25:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q2P60F027030; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:25:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q2P40F027017 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:25:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-239-61.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.239.61]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6Q2Ob98029506 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030725191931.0531d100@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:20:57 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College In-Reply-To: <009d01c3531a$985b20f0$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Okay, I know I'll never be organized enough to put a red H on my name tag, >so... do we want to organize a get together for h-costumers? What about >Friday night? Or at the Gala? I'll be there, but I don't know if I'm attending the Gala or not. I'll have a red H on my tag - are we trying for matching fonts here, or will any red H do? And is it ok if I let the doll on my shoulder carry my H for me? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 26 02:03:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q63PLY009296 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:03:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q60d1G026871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:00:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q60bXd007195; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:00:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web9403.mail.yahoo.com (web9403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6Q60YXd007180 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:00:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030726060034.57037.qmail@web9403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.239.171] by web9403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:00:34 PDT Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:00:34 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030725191931.0531d100@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'll be sure and put a red H on my tag as well:) I probably won't be going to the Gala as well--except to slip in after dinner --for a bit of the dancing and to check out the garb. Cheers and Best-- Albra Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >Okay, I know I'll never be organized enough to put a red H on my name tag, >so... do we want to organize a get together for h-costumers? What about >Friday night? Or at the Gala? I'll be there, but I don't know if I'm attending the Gala or not. I'll have a red H on my tag - are we trying for matching fonts here, or will any red H do? And is it ok if I let the doll on my shoulder carry my H for me? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 26 02:36:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q6a3LY022707 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:36:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q6YN1G029411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:34:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q6YMXd020046; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:34:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q6YKXd020025 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:34:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net ([67.124.118.50]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HIM00KVLCX6V7@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:34:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:31:49 -0700 From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20030725191931.0531d100@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030725232505.00bb2ae0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 References: <009d01c3531a$985b20f0$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:20 PM 7/25/2003 -0700, you wrote: >>Okay, I know I'll never be organized enough to put a red H on my name tag, >>so... do we want to organize a get together for h-costumers? What about >>Friday night? Or at the Gala? > >I'll be there, but I don't know if I'm attending the Gala or not. I'll >have a red H on my tag - are we trying for matching fonts here, or will >any red H do? And is it ok if I let the doll on my shoulder carry my H for me? Woohoo girl, we are gonna par-tay! 8-D IIRC, the Costumers Guild West is throwing some kind of 20th anniversary celebration on Friday night in the Corcorde Room, but I'm open to suggestions. I'll try to remember to put a red H on my badge (Kayta, slap me if I forget). Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 26 03:59:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q7xLLY020789 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 03:59:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q7uV1G004861 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 26 Jul 2003 01:56:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q7uSi0021466; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 01:56:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q7uOi0021397 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 01:56:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HIM00GEYGPULS@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:56:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:45:32 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College In-reply-to: <009d01c3531a$985b20f0$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030725235558.00af71b0@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:06 PM 7/25/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Okay, I know I'll never be organized enough to put a red H on my name tag, >so... do we want to organize a get together for h-costumers? What about >Friday night? Or at the Gala? > >- Kendra I will be available most nights except for Sunday, when I have plans for dinner with friends before the Monday Fabric Dist. Tour. I have no plans to go to the Gala, except to gawk at the other ladies and gentlemen's garments as they sweep in. I will be in on Thursday evening sometime... not sure when. And I just plan on a Red H of some sorta font, in bold, somewhere on my tags. Which reminds me... I gotta look for my tag holder thingy. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 26 04:30:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q8TvLY030992 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 04:29:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q8SE1G007301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:28:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q8SDi0004643; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:28:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt27.cluster1.charter.net (remt27.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q8SAi0004604 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:28:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.205.139.124] (HELO Maxwell) by remt27.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 101846368 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 04:28:05 -0400 From: "Cat Devereaux" To: Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 01:28:03 -0700 Message-ID: <005601c3534f$d4ee1380$7c8bcd18@Maxwell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <200307260757.h6Q7vRi2022054@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] LA Fabric District X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Don't forget United Trim --- it's on 8th (Berger's street), but a block and a half west of Maple on the north side. It's amazing. 100 yards of ribbon for 7-9 dollars. Thin ribbon $3. Well worth the extra walk If you're coming in early... EmBe is closed until the 29th (or until after, which makes it the 30th). (The signage wasn't really clear.) And his store is worth the trip down there alone. Few more notes of things that have changed down there recently. Lady Fabric is now $1 a yard (3 yard minim) ... it's NW corner of Maple and 9th (just like EmBe) but on the outside. Fabric Fabric, on 9th, north side, one door down from the NE corner... much silk, any color, prices may not be the best but EVERY color in many weights. Wonderful shot silk taffeta . If you've got a LARGE budget... there's a store on Maple... mid way up the street, next to the shoe stores, sets back off the street, ya can't miss the glitter... has the most wonderful beaded silks from France, England, India and more. The fabric is expensive... but litterely half what you will find on the west side of LA. I could go on more... but heck... I twisted my own arm.... will see ya guys down there... and help point people to shops... I mostly hang out at EmBe's and in that center. Oh yea... in general, north side of 9th seems to be about $1 a yard cheaper than the stuff south (which is closer to Levine's) -Cat- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 26 04:45:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q8jELY008752 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 04:45:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q8hW1G008679 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:43:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q8hVi0010578; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:43:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q8hSi0010551 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:43:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HIM00F7KIWE8K@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 01:43:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 01:32:42 -0700 From: Kimiko Small X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030726004836.02e9b858@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested Subject: [h-cost] costumes of "The Six Wives of Henry VIII" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I noticed in my email catchup that you all did talk about the recently shown on PBS film "Six Wives of Henry VIII". I managed to catch it all and tape it off for later dissection of the costumes. I know that looking over the film is not a place to get sources for costumes, but as they were "supposed" to be based on the portraits themselves in many (tho not all) cases, I wanted to see how close to good, or not good, aspects of the recreated costumes were to the people on this list. To me, it is one thing to look at a painting and see how the styles and details were, it is another thing to see how it can be recreated and how it moves on a living person. I have been looking over the pbs.org site on the film ( http://www.pbs.org/wnet/sixwives/ ), and it lists in the credits Jane Stuart-Brown as the costume designer. Doing a further google search on her, I find that Sudeley Castle has an exhibit using those costumes. http://www.sudeleycastle.co.uk/sixwives.html Has anyone from the UK (or visitors) seen the costumes up close? I am understanding from a few sites that some of the costumes from the series were recreated for show in the castle, placed on life-like mannequins created by sculptor John Robinson, and the jewelry was done by Lesley Beales. I was also wondering what people who have seen the series thought of the costumes themselves? I personally liked the jewelry and such around the neck openings and across the hats on some, but wondered what some of the creations were, such as the golden colored large "pearls" on Catherine Howard's french hood. I also had difficulties with one outfit Anne of Cleves was wearing, which seemed more like the hat of the Flying Nun, than anything I had seen before, but then I am not as familiar with German noble styles. I also pondered at how very curved many of the bodices were... so much so it seemed you could see each bone through the fabric. No breasts seemed to be showing with how high they curved, and I know we've been discussing this aspect of corsets and such. And I noticed that some ladies with Catherine of Aragon did not wear any apparent farthingale, and that the foreparts seemed to sometimes look a bit bunched when they walked. As I am still learning about the finer points of Tudor costumes, I was hoping to learn what was good and what was not in the recreated costumes from this film from the more learned members of this list. Any takers? And does anyone know if this will be a film discussed during Costume College, or is it too soon? Thanks for anyone's thoughts on this film. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 26 09:24:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6QDOCLY013511 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 09:24:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6QDMP1G029662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 26 Jul 2003 07:22:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6QDML5Z000787; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 07:22:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web9406.mail.yahoo.com (web9406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6QDMJ5Z000764 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 07:22:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030726132218.30417.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.239.171] by web9406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 06:22:18 PDT Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 06:22:18 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030725232505.00bb2ae0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was planning on going to the Concord room party, too---I'll look for red 'H's there:) Guess I better lay in a supply of champagne, too-------:) Albra Dawn Jacobson wrote: At 07:20 PM 7/25/2003 -0700, you wrote: >>Okay, I know I'll never be organized enough to put a red H on my name tag, >>so... do we want to organize a get together for h-costumers? What about >>Friday night? Or at the Gala? > >I'll be there, but I don't know if I'm attending the Gala or not. I'll >have a red H on my tag - are we trying for matching fonts here, or will >any red H do? And is it ok if I let the doll on my shoulder carry my H for me? Woohoo girl, we are gonna par-tay! 8-D IIRC, the Costumers Guild West is throwing some kind of 20th anniversary celebration on Friday night in the Corcorde Room, but I'm open to suggestions. I'll try to remember to put a red H on my badge (Kayta, slap me if I forget). Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 26 11:09:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6QF9pLY013804 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:09:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6QF7d1G008788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 26 Jul 2003 09:07:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6QF7bE7016208; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 09:07:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6QF7UE7016155 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 09:07:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 22499 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2003 15:07:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail1.inreach.com) (209.142.2.50) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 26 Jul 2003 15:07:29 -0000 Received: from 12.233.12.26 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:07:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1203.12.233.12.26.1059232049.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:07:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College From: To: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030725235558.00af71b0@127.0.0.1> References: <009d01c3531a$985b20f0$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> <5.1.0.14.0.20030725235558.00af71b0@127.0.0.1> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.9) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I will be available most nights except for Sunday, when I have plans for > dinner with friends before the Monday Fabric Dist. Tour. I have no > plans to go to the Gala, except to gawk at the other ladies and > gentlemen's garments as they sweep in. I will be in on Thursday evening > sometime... not sure when. I was also not going to go to the Gala. Is anybody? I realize that we on the list are not EVERYONE but we are a pretty good cross-section aren't we? Just wondering.... Diana (who will also have a red H) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jul 26 20:08:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6R08WLY015462 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 20:08:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6R06i1G024552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:06:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6R06aA2025815; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:06:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80403.mail.yahoo.com (web80403.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.58]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6R06YA2025782 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:06:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030727000629.62871.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.124.118.50] by web80403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 17:06:29 PDT Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 17:06:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <1203.12.233.12.26.1059232049.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- dch@inreach.com wrote: > > > > I will be available most nights except for Sunday, > when I have plans for > > dinner with friends before the Monday Fabric > Dist. Tour. I have no > > plans to go to the Gala, except to gawk at the > other ladies and > > gentlemen's garments as they sweep in. I will be > in on Thursday evening > > sometime... not sure when. > > I was also not going to go to the Gala. Is anybody? > I realize that we on > the list are not EVERYONE but we are a pretty good > cross-section aren't > we? Just wondering.... > > Diana I am, and the Tea on Sunday (got a new dress for that). Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 27 00:37:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6R4bILY015883 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 00:37:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6R4ZS1G018424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 26 Jul 2003 22:35:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6R4ZONi007073; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 22:35:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from stanford.loosefoot.com (stanford.loosefoot.com [207.195.54.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6R4ZJNi006997 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 22:35:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bernie.loosefoot.com (bernie.loosefoot.com [207.195.54.243]) by stanford.loosefoot.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 44EB31632BE for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 22:33:47 -0600 (CST) Received: (qmail 27557 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2003 04:33:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mabion.spublofe.com) (66.75.70.46) by bernie.loosefoot.com with SMTP; 27 Jul 2003 04:33:46 -0000 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20030726212207.00a01280@pop3.lfchosting.com> X-Sender: mabse/spublofe.com@pop3.lfchosting.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 21:32:16 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones In-Reply-To: <200307261800.h6QI0lDt004512@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] costume college X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh Boy, I am really excited about getting to meet some people. I am planning on going to the party on Friday. I want to make a grass skirt for it. I will look for those H's. Cat - are you going to the garment district on monday? Do you remember the name of the place that had the beaded trims? The ballet company has a tutu that I can't stand for one more year without replacing the trim and they have more colors there than anywhere I have seen. I am not going to go crazy, I am not going to go crazy. On the other hand, I have used all of the fabric that I bought there two years ago, except for the silk gauze that I bought for a specific purpose. If I go crazy this year it will be ribbons. I need ribbons for my Elizabethan dress. Maryann _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 27 10:11:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6REBgLY028770 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:11:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RE9l1G001098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Jul 2003 08:09:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RE9iiR013511; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 08:09:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RE9fiR013489 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 08:09:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-171.75.223.98.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.223.98] helo=Dan) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19gmDU-0001uF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:09:40 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c35448$f8db3580$62df4bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030725235558.00af71b0@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College/red H Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 09:11:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's probably too late for this now, but, Costume Con had a stamp at registration for the H-costumers to put on their badges? Oh how I wish I could go!! Someday if I save all my pennies. Genie(green with envy) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 2:45 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College > At 07:06 PM 7/25/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >Okay, I know I'll never be organized enough to put a red H on my name tag, > >so... do we want to organize a get together for h-costumers? What about > >Friday night? Or at the Gala? > > > >- Kendra > > > I will be available most nights except for Sunday, when I have plans for > dinner with friends before the Monday Fabric Dist. Tour. I have no plans to > go to the Gala, except to gawk at the other ladies and gentlemen's garments > as they sweep in. I will be in on Thursday evening sometime... not sure when. > > And I just plan on a Red H of some sorta font, in bold, somewhere on my > tags. Which reminds me... I gotta look for my tag holder thingy. > > Kimiko > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 27 13:07:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RH7YLY029388 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:07:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RH5o1G016038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:05:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RH5meY009619; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:05:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RH5keY009579 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:05:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DEF936998 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:05:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19goxr-0007YD-00 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:05:43 -0400 To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:05:43 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan baby clothes and Italian pregnancy clothes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I've just got around to putting the following up on my webpage: 1. Elizabethan baby clothes for a friend's baby http://elizabethangeek.com/katrowberd/projects/2003-lydia-linen/ 2. Italian 1570s clothes for the same friend to wear while pregnant http://elizabethangeek.com/katrowberd/projects/2003-lucia-gown/ I hope some of you find them useful and/or interesting. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 27 15:50:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RJoWLY029825 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 15:50:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RJmp1G000735 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:48:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RJmnd9028165; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:48:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RJmkd9028133 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:48:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.168] (pm5-168.eos.net [205.133.149.168]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14846 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 15:48:44 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 15:42:23 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200307261800.h6QI0lDs004512@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Six Wives X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I watched only bits of the first half of the Six Wives of Henry VIII. I liked the actress who did Catherine, but I didn't see much of her in costume except for in a shift which, to me, did not look right. I am no expert in the period but Henry VIII's clothes, at least in that part, did not fit him. I was switching back and forth between that and something else, and gave up in disgust when I saw the historian comment on an English version of the New Testament that 'might have been the very one the queen kept open on a stand in her room'! Well, considering how small and thick it was, I doubt very much that you COULD keep it open on a stand. Then he spouted something about how the Catholic Church wouldn't let anyone read the Bible in the vernacular because they wanted blind obedience to the church's teachings and I gave up in disgust. Talk about bias! If that's any indication of the breadth of his scholarship, no wonder people have little good to say about him. Not even costumes could keep me around after that. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 27 15:53:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RJrjLY029830 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 15:53:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RJq41G001099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:52:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RJq4d9029639; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:52:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RJq2d9029618 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-9-198.smf.jps.net ([216.119.9.198] helo=pavilion) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19grYn-0004GF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:52:01 -0700 Message-ID: <006a01c35478$99c5ed80$c60977d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan baby clothes and Italian pregnancy clothes Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:52:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kirrily, That baby indeed will be one of the best dressed, that smock and coif set is just precious. Thanks for posting. I'd love to see photos of them when the baby has them on. Keep us posted! Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirrily Robert" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:05 AM Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan baby clothes and Italian pregnancy clothes > Hi all, > > I've just got around to putting the following up on my webpage: > > 1. Elizabethan baby clothes for a friend's baby > http://elizabethangeek.com/katrowberd/projects/2003-lydia-linen/ > 2. Italian 1570s clothes for the same friend to wear while pregnant > http://elizabethangeek.com/katrowberd/projects/2003-lucia-gown/ > > I hope some of you find them useful and/or interesting. > > K. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 27 16:04:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RK4mLY029865 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:04:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RK3D1G002082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:03:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RK3CFN005255; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:03:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web9407.mail.yahoo.com (web9407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6RK39FN005232 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:03:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030727200309.38750.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.239.171] by web9407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:03:09 PDT Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:03:09 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan baby clothes and Italian pregnancy clothes To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <006a01c35478$99c5ed80$c60977d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Very lovely, indeed! And inspirational --since I need to make a baby present to some friends who have recently become parents :) Thanks so much for sharing! Albra Lisa Sinervo wrote: Kirrily, That baby indeed will be one of the best dressed, that smock and coif set is just precious. Thanks for posting. I'd love to see photos of them when the baby has them on. Keep us posted! Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirrily Robert" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:05 AM Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan baby clothes and Italian pregnancy clothes > Hi all, > > I've just got around to putting the following up on my webpage: > > 1. Elizabethan baby clothes for a friend's baby > http://elizabethangeek.com/katrowberd/projects/2003-lydia-linen/ > 2. Italian 1570s clothes for the same friend to wear while pregnant > http://elizabethangeek.com/katrowberd/projects/2003-lucia-gown/ > > I hope some of you find them useful and/or interesting. > > K. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 27 16:29:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RKTmLY029971 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:29:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RKS81G004566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:28:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RKS6FN017999; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:28:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RKS3FN017968 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:28:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-236-224.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.236.224])h6RKRvvo009791 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 15:28:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030727132319.04dc8f00@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:27:34 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan baby clothes and Italian pregnancy clothes In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >1. Elizabethan baby clothes for a friend's baby Baby walkers are period, the earliest in-period example of which I have seen was from the late 1400s. So I found a round-topped baby walker, and did an Elizabethan for my first daughter, with a skirt that was long enough and full enough to cover the walker, but short enough to not get in the way of the wheels. So there she was at her first Twelfthnight, at age 10 months and not walking yet, toddling around in what looked like a drum farthingale Elizabethan. Leading strings are also period, so I could keep a rein on her, as it were. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 27 16:36:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RKaSLY030010 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:36:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RKYp1G005227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:34:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RKYoFN021072; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:34:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav21.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.125]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RKYmFN021029 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:34:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:34:42 -0700 Received: from 12.89.8.204 by bay1-dav21.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 20:34:42 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [12.89.8.204] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20030727132319.04dc8f00@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan baby clothes and Italian pregnancy clothes Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:35:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jul 2003 20:34:42.0537 (UTC) FILETIME=[824F8D90:01C3547E] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Leading reins are also period for wee boys. Tarquin (y son) had a set way back when. Bice http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie/ http://calendar.yahoo.com/de_gustibus_non_est_disputandum7 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan baby clothes and Italian pregnancy clothes > > >1. Elizabethan baby clothes for a friend's baby > > Baby walkers are period, the earliest in-period example of which I have > seen was from the late 1400s. So I found a round-topped baby walker, and > did an Elizabethan for my first daughter, with a skirt that was long enough > and full enough to cover the walker, but short enough to not get in the way > of the wheels. So there she was at her first Twelfthnight, at age 10 > months and not walking yet, toddling around in what looked like a drum > farthingale Elizabethan. Leading strings are also period, so I could keep > a rein on her, as it were. > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 27 16:38:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RKcELY030028 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:38:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RKaY1G005319 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:36:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RKaXFN021889; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:36:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail13.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail13.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.87]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RKaUFO021850 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:36:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) h6RKaRaM030395 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:36:30 -0400 Received: from ctrlalt ([68.49.43.163]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 15:36:19 -0500 From: "A.Thurman" To: "Historic Costume List \(E-mail\)" Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:36:14 -0400 Message-ID: <014801c3547e$ba0ad370$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume College X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I won't be there, but I went last year and LOVED it - I envy you all! And yes - the Garment District IS all it's made out to be (drool!) Allison T. (maybe next year!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 27 16:47:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RKlNLY009123 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:47:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RKji1G006395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:45:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RKjhFN027543; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:45:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RKjeFN027486 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:45:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id F095F1B25D4 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:45:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <03ca01c35480$0740f330$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20030727132319.04dc8f00@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan baby clothes and Italian pregnancy clothes Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:45:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My "leading reins" for my boys have literally been life-savers. Kept ADHD Stevie from dashing out into traffic or busy parking lots I don't know HOW many times! Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan baby clothes and Italian pregnancy clothes > Leading reins are also period for wee boys. Tarquin (y son) had a set way > back when. > > Bice > http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie/ > http://calendar.yahoo.com/de_gustibus_non_est_disputandum7 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 1:27 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan baby clothes and Italian pregnancy clothes > > > > > > >1. Elizabethan baby clothes for a friend's baby > > > > Baby walkers are period, the earliest in-period example of which I have > > seen was from the late 1400s. So I found a round-topped baby walker, and > > did an Elizabethan for my first daughter, with a skirt that was long > enough > > and full enough to cover the walker, but short enough to not get in the > way > > of the wheels. So there she was at her first Twelfthnight, at age 10 > > months and not walking yet, toddling around in what looked like a drum > > farthingale Elizabethan. Leading strings are also period, so I could keep > > a rein on her, as it were. > > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > > www.FunStuft.com > > > > //// \\\ > > ////-@@\\\ > > (((( 7 ))) > > ((( <> )))) > > ) (((((( > > /----\ /---\)) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 27 18:10:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RMASLY021657 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:10:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RM8p1G013473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:08:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RM8nmh008231; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:08:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RM8kmh008183 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:08:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-126-147.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.126.147]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6RM7o1h005226 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 15:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030727150408.05111be0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 15:04:58 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan baby clothes and Italian pregnancy clothes In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20030727132319.04dc8f00@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Leading reins are also period for wee boys. Tarquin (y son) had a set way >back when. Especially since toddler boys and toddler girls dresses so much alike. BTW, I hear that's how you tie them to your apron strings - by their leading strings. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 27 18:28:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RMSgLY021723 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:28:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RMQt1G014701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:26:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RMQsmh016319; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:26:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt27.cluster1.charter.net (remt27.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RMQpmh016239 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:26:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.205.139.124] (HELO Maxwell) by remt27.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 103091835 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:26:45 -0400 From: "Cat Devereaux" To: Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 15:26:40 -0700 Message-ID: <001001c3548e$29b91330$7c8bcd18@Maxwell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <200307271800.h6RI0j6S006820@net.indra.com> Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Costume College / Garment District X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>Cat - are you going to the garment district on Monday? Yes, I'll be down there. Just coming on my own. I won't be at college. >> Do you remember the name of the place that had the beaded trims? The ballet company has a tutu that I can't stand for one more year without replacing the trim and they have more colors there than anywhere I have seen. ??? Not sure which beaded place. Bring a sample or a picture. Good places for beaded trim (and trim in general) are on west side of Maple: Trimming City, Trim 2000, Button and trim expo (new to some folks). Good prices all of them. Others.. new spot on 8th, north side, west of Berger's by a block... no real name, go up the big, almost department store stairs and turn right... heaven... BUT you really have to know you prices... but if you buy his closeouts you get great prices and can get beads with silk ribbon embroidery, fringes etc... but he does closeout so you buy the right amount at the right time. Already beaded trim, Berger's of course and on 9th, north side, a block and a half east there are a few more trimming places that sell the thick laces as well as bead fringe. Perfect stuff for Edwardian. Dyes beautifully and about 20% less than the stuff on maple. There are a couple of other spots in the fabric mart (where EmBe is) that have elaborate heavy laces that are beaded that run from about 2" thick to 5". Also, they're caring some of the wider beaded sari trims now. >> If I go crazy this year it will be ribbons. United Beads, that I mentioned in my last post is best for that... 8th, north side, block and a half west of Berger's. And while I'm on trims, it used to be that the garment district didn't carry any of the flat stuff we could use for medieval... that has changed. In the small shops they will either be in front side, or behind the cash register. Prices vary like crazy... so shop those carefully. Oh, if folks in general didn't catch the last post and are trying to figure out directions... everything bases on Maple (runs n/s) and 8th/9th streets.. For a better description if you're going on your own... http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr/Exhibit/FIDM/GatherMar8.htm (half way down the page) has the info. On more general thing about the tour on Monday... Since I'm not doing the tour (and didn't do it last year), I don't know what the policy is going to be on badges... but when I lead it for the last (ah too many years), I have everyone remove their name badge because of the area we're in, but I used to tag the group with stickers so everyone still knew they were with a group. I don't know what they will be doing. So, someone may want to bring another pen to re-mark the "H" for Monday. -Cat- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jul 27 19:55:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RNtwLY022044 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 19:55:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RNsF1G022634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:54:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RNsDjO027136; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:54:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RNsBjO027127 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-171.75.229.70.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.229.70] helo=Dan) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19gvL8-0007Ek-00; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 19:54:10 -0400 Message-ID: <047c01c3549a$a0bf6360$62df4bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: , , "Historical Costume" Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:55:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Pirates X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h6RNtwLY022044 Status: RO Hi, my husband and I saw POC today. Fun film, don't even look for historical accuracy. In fact what it reminded me of most was "The Crimson Pirate" with Burt Lancaster just more special effects. Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 03:10:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6S7A7LY019249 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 03:10:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6S78C1G001637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 01:08:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6S783dF002729; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 01:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-3.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6S77wdF002647 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 01:07:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABC619590036; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 02:07:50 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABC33F701EC; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 02:07:47 -0500 Message-ID: <015101c354d7$405acc20$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 03:09:56 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: [1] theanswerto, see http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S1815 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Color help X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We are trying to figure out what a color would be on an 1863 ball gown. The color is a "Vesuvius color". Can someone please help us determine what color this should be. Below is the description of the dress: Ball dress of white satin silk, trimmed with quilling of white ribbon. The upper dress is of spotted lace, with a broad ribbon of Vesuvius color around of the lace dress. {I believe this is the ribbon on the over-skirt} We have not finished cleaning this plate but you can see it at http://www.costumegallery.com/1863/color1b.jpg Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 03:35:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6S7ZrLY027886 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 03:35:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6S7YG1G003683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 01:34:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6S7YFdF014962; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 01:34:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6S7YDdF014946 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 01:34:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-126-147.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.126.147])h6S7YCvi000926 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 02:34:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030728003202.0510b610@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 00:34:07 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Color help In-Reply-To: <015101c354d7$405acc20$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >We are trying to figure out what a color would be on an 1863 ball gown. The >color is a "Vesuvius color". Before I looked at the plate, I guessed it would be the grey color of volcanic ash. Then I looked. Parts of the ribbon are pumice grey, and the rest is obsidian black. Otherwise, I'm as stumped as you are. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 03:47:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6S7lmLY032545 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 03:47:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6S7k91G004711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 01:46:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6S7k8dF020154; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 01:46:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-3.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6S7k5dF020088 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 01:46:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A4B5800009C; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 02:45:57 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A4B443D01EC; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 02:45:56 -0500 Message-ID: <015d01c354dc$8e5cf1a0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20030728003202.0510b610@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Color help Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 03:47:54 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: [1] theanswerto, see http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S1815 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kayta, You really can't go by the color on the plate right now. This plate is in sad condition and has a lot of staining from age. The only thing that has been re-painted so far is the white you see on the right side dress and the white painting is not completed yet. Case in point... the trim on the left side dress is purple according to the description. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 3:34 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Color help > > >We are trying to figure out what a color would be on an 1863 ball gown. The > >color is a "Vesuvius color". > > Before I looked at the plate, I guessed it would be the grey color of > volcanic ash. Then I looked. Parts of the ribbon are pumice grey, and the > rest is obsidian black. Otherwise, I'm as stumped as you are. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 04:11:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6S8B0LY008548 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 04:11:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6S89K1G006478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 02:09:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6S89IkV000115; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 02:09:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6S89FkV029982 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 02:09:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h6S89Dp21927.; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:09:13 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:09:13 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:08:58 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Six Wives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail wrote: Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> Then he spouted something about how the Catholic Church wouldn't let anyone read the Bible in the vernacular because they wanted blind obedience to the church's teachings and I gave up in disgust. Talk about bias! >>> Can you elucidate for the benefit of ignorant Protestants? I've always understood that this was so. Wasn't William Tyndale executed for translating the Bible into English because his work was considered subversive? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 08:59:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SCx6LY028177 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:59:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SCvM1G029984 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 06:57:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SCvIjo003854; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 06:57:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from omta02.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SCvFjo003803 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 06:57:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (dsnat [216.200.145.62]) by omta02.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 426A01C3819 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 05:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id CB0E23E70; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 05:57:13 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 05:57:12 -0700 (PDT) From: prairielark To: Historical Costume X-Originating-Ip: [66.162.203.195] Message-Id: <20030728125713.CB0E23E70@sitemail.everyone.net> Subject: [h-cost] Victoria gone?????!!!!! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I received a notice stating my subscription to Victoria Magazine (Hearst Publications) has been shifted to another publication as this wonderful mag has ceased publication with the June 2003 issue. How can this be? Does anyone have a clue what happened? I thought this was the greatest magazine ever printed and have each and every issue since the first quarterly one printed in the fall of 1985. Please if anyone knows what happened I would like to hear it. Devastated, Phoebe the prairie lark _____________________________________________________________ Herspace.com [[feed your heart * fuel your art]] http://www.herspace.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 09:15:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SDFXLY028212 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:15:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SDDk1G001696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 07:13:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SDDjjo012393; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 07:13:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SDDhjo012373 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 07:13:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-126-147.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.126.147]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6SDDg94005518 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 06:13:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030728060829.05322e80@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 06:09:02 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Color help In-Reply-To: <015d01c354dc$8e5cf1a0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> References: <4.3.1.2.20030728003202.0510b610@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >You really can't go by the color on the plate right now. Or the color on my monitor either. I told you I guessed ;) CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 10:17:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SEH9LY028328 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:17:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SEFO1G007330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:15:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SEFMep017597; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:15:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from omta02.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SEFJep017549 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:15:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (dsnat [216.200.145.62]) by omta02.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C881C3B80 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 07:15:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 1938DABDD; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 07:15:18 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 07:15:18 -0700 (PDT) From: prairielark To: h-costume@indra.com X-Originating-Ip: [66.162.203.195] Message-Id: <20030728141518.1938DABDD@sitemail.everyone.net> Subject: [h-cost] Victoria gone???!! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been away for the computer for some time and in the interim my list membership cancelled because my mailbox was full, so if this has already been discussed, I aplogize for repeating but I missed it. Saturday I received a notice stating my subscription to Victoria Magazine (Hearst Publications) has been shifted to another publication as this wonderful mag has ceased publication with the June 2003 issue. How can this be? Does anyone have a clue what happened? I thought this was the greatest magazine ever printed and have each and every issue since the first quarterly one printed in the fall of 1985. Please if anyone knows what happened I would like to hear it. Devastated, Phoebe the prairie lark _____________________________________________________________ Herspace.com [[feed your heart * fuel your art]] http://www.herspace.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 11:21:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SFLgLY028600 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:21:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SFJJ1G016254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:19:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SFJIEx002224; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:19:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger-ssl.uvm.edu [132.198.101.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SFJEEx002172 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:19:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104032.uvm.edu [132.198.104.32]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SFJDUM022410 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:19:13 -0400 Message-ID: <3F253EE2.4050308@uvm.edu> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:18:58 -0400 From: Hope Greeenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200307281258.h6SCwOjo004263@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200307281258.h6SCwOjo004263@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Color help X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ------------------------------ > From: "Penny Ladnier" > You really can't go by the color on the plate right now. This plate is in > sad condition and has a lot of staining from age. The only thing that has > been re-painted so far is the white you see on the right side dress and the > white painting is not completed yet. Do you have time to compare it to another copy of the plate? I'm sorry we don't have the 1863 volume of Peterson's (that's where it is from, yes?) but it is available in quite a few university libraries. Then again, comparing it to another plate might not be as helpful as one might think: I believe Peterson's was like Godey's in how it handled the coloration of these plates. The hand tinting was done as "piecework" by a number of women who didn't use a common set of paints, so there were variations in colors on identical plates. - Hope (hope.greenberg@uvm.edu, U of Vermont) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 11:43:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SFhPLY028687 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:43:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SFfM1G019370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:41:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SFfLEx020132; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:41:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f115.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SFfIEx020019 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:41:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:41:13 -0700 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:41:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:41:10 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jul 2003 15:41:13.0008 (UTC) FILETIME=[ACA06B00:01C3551E] Subject: [h-cost] Costume College X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I will be at C.C. but will not be attending the Gala. However, I will have a red H on my name tag so I hope to meet you all in person. I am not against a little get together. Maybe one of the less busy evenings we can meet for dinner or something??? Maybe we can have the cool kids lunch table where we all wear red H's and matching bomber jackets. We can be the H-Cost Crew... Anyway, see you all in a couple of days!!! This is going to be so much fun!!!!!!!!!!! :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 12:06:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SG6uLY028729 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:06:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SG5A1G023635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:05:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SG55jx010548; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SG4xjx010440 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:05:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h6SG4xoI021137 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:04:59 -0400 Message-Id: <200307281604.h6SG4xoI021137@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:01:18 -0000 To: Historical Costume From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 Subject: [h-cost] To Penny X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry to use the list, but a couple weeks ago Penny Ladnier asked me something about the Long Hair list . Penny, I tried e-mailing you and it keeps bouncing! I hope you were able to fix the problem and I wasn't ignoring you! For everyone else, long hair is fashionable for many of the time periods we do, and the long hair page (and its e-mail list) offers haircare tips, support, and admiration for long hair and hairstyles. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 13:08:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SH87LY029030 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:08:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SH6L1G003164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:06:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SH6Iew001594; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:06:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.primushost.com (smtp1.primushost.com [209.58.220.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SH68ex001322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:06:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp1.primushost.com with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim) id 19hBOs-0003fw-Om; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:03:06 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 19hBSE-0005wF-00; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:06:34 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:06:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: historic costume In-Reply-To: <000701c352c2$f4437320$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] 150th anniversary parade X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We were in a parade on Saturday (celebrating my town's 150th anniversary as an independent town, though the town was founded in 1630); I and my twins and Husband were wearing 1900 dress to celebrate the 50th anniversary of 1903. I was very happy to be in a covered car (1930 model A Ford, beautiful) not walking in the sun as it was 85 degrees out. But at least it wasn't humid. One spectator who videoed us even knew what era we were from! The boys even didn't fight me when I tried to get them into their sailor outfits. I will try and get pictures up soon. Didn't take many digital ones, have to wait for my film. We also had a 150th Victorian Ball 2 weeks ago and got great photos there. I made a Roman striped flounced 1850's gown much like the one from the Cincinnati Museum exhibition catalogue. One of the ladies in the parade who dressed in 1850's (acetate version of the Simplicity flounced dress) had bags of frozen vegetables inside her bodice instead of bust pads to keep cool! I dressed the curator of our Historical society in 1853 dress, who is 70 or so. Green velvet bonnet with lots of flowers, a mantle of white cotton with eyelet trim (copied from an original in my collection), a periwinkle blue silk skirt with petticoats and a silver tussy mussie with silk violets. She looked so pretty, like her grandmother who she is named for. I was very happy to get her dressed appropriately. We also lucked out with weather as the humidity was back up to 110 percent the next day! Katy Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 13:14:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHE0LY029055 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:14:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHCE1G003874 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:12:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHCDew006372; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:12:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav21.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.125]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHCAew006239 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:12:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:12:05 -0700 Received: from 12.89.10.126 by bay1-dav21.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:12:05 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [12.89.10.126] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" , Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:12:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jul 2003 17:12:05.0424 (UTC) FILETIME=[5E851300:01C3552B] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Fans (cross post) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h6SHE0LY029055 Status: RO Ok back last week when my computer went down to a virus and I had to reformat I had a TON of links for fans and fan making etc etc. I've lost them all (backing up on disk all my links this time smart cookie that I am)Does ANYONE have links for examples of fans how to's on fans etc etc. I like to have them for reference when making a fan and I hate not having a picture to look at. Bice http://www.jacquelinejohnson.allhere.com/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie/ http://calendar.yahoo.com/de_gustibus_non_est_disputandum7 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 13:14:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHEfLY029060 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:14:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHCs1G003943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:12:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHCqew006850; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:12:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav35.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHClew006710 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:12:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:12:42 -0700 Received: from 12.89.10.126 by bay1-dav35.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:12:42 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [12.89.10.126] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 150th anniversary parade Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:13:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jul 2003 17:12:42.0541 (UTC) FILETIME=[74A4ADD0:01C3552B] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So lucky! Tarquin has fits when I try to dress him. He's 12 and even at age 4 went on strike when I attempted a Fauntelroy suit. *sigh* I miss those days. So glad you had fun! Bice http://www.jacquelinejohnson.allhere.com/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie/ http://calendar.yahoo.com/de_gustibus_non_est_disputandum7 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Bishop" To: "historic costume" Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 10:06 AM Subject: [h-cost] 150th anniversary parade > > We were in a parade on Saturday (celebrating my town's 150th anniversary > as an independent town, though the town was founded in 1630); I and my > twins and Husband were wearing 1900 dress to celebrate the 50th > anniversary of 1903. I was very happy to be in a covered car (1930 > model A Ford, beautiful) not walking in the sun as it was 85 degrees > out. But at least it wasn't humid. One spectator who videoed us even > knew what era we were from! The boys even didn't fight me when I tried > to get them into their sailor outfits. I will try and get pictures up > soon. Didn't take many digital ones, have to wait for my film. We also > had a 150th Victorian Ball 2 weeks ago and got great photos there. I > made a Roman striped flounced 1850's gown much like the one from the > Cincinnati Museum exhibition catalogue. > > One of the ladies in the parade who dressed in 1850's (acetate version > of the Simplicity flounced dress) had bags of frozen vegetables inside > her bodice instead of bust pads to keep cool! > > I dressed the curator of our Historical society in 1853 dress, who is 70 > or so. Green velvet bonnet with lots of flowers, a mantle of white > cotton with eyelet trim (copied from an original in my collection), a > periwinkle blue silk skirt with petticoats and a silver tussy mussie > with silk violets. She looked so pretty, like her grandmother who she > is named for. I was very happy to get her dressed appropriately. > > We also lucked out with weather as the humidity was back up to 110 > percent the next day! > > Katy > > > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian > vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 13:34:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHYiLY029153 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:34:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHRs1G006039 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:27:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHRnew018692; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:27:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20210.mail.yahoo.com (web20210.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6SHRiew018631 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:27:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030728172744.85382.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [168.103.60.157] by web20210.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:27:44 PDT Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:27:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Angela Kovatch Subject: Re: [h-cost] Color help To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <015101c354d7$405acc20$0400a8c0@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My guess on hearing the color name would be a deep red, more like an erupting volcano. For comparison, check out how Nokia and Corian are using the color name today: http://www.abmwireless.com/skr72.html http://www.corian.com/CorianPublic/corian/b/es/h/Colors/SubPaletteWarms.html (On the Corian page, my image of Vesuvius red was more like what they're calling Pompeii red.) My next question would be, what was Vesuvius' role in current news of the day? If it had recently erupted, I would definitely think red rather than grey. I didn't find an answer in my quick 'net search, but this site http://www.cotf.edu/ete/modules/volcanoes/vmtvesuvius.html seems to suggest that archeology might have been bringing to light the story of the ancient Pompeii disaster about the time of your dress. This story is very capable of grabbing imaginations and conjuring up images of volcanoes in full action, so if it was in the news, I would personally lean toward the "deep red" theory for what the color is. Just something more to think about. Good luck- Angela --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > We are trying to figure out what a color would be on > an 1863 ball gown. The > color is a "Vesuvius color". Can someone please > help us determine what > color this should be. Below is the description of > the dress: > > Ball dress of white satin silk, trimmed with > quilling of white ribbon. The > upper dress is of spotted lace, with a broad ribbon > of Vesuvius color around > of the lace dress. {I believe this is the ribbon on > the over-skirt} > > We have not finished cleaning this plate but you can > see it at > http://www.costumegallery.com/1863/color1b.jpg > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com > Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 13:42:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHg9LY029180 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:42:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHeA1G007605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:40:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHe5ew028543; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:40:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lycos.com (www1.mail.lycos.com [209.202.220.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6SHe0ew028443 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:39:36 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:39:36 -0400 From: "Katie Lewis" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan baby clothes and Italian pregnancy clothes X-Sender-Ip: 129.219.101.189 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gorgeous! I recently made a similar outfit for my son who is 2 1/2 months old and it worked quite well. Yes, I know that a child his age should still be swaddled. But Thomas hasn't wanted to be swaddled since he was 2 weeks old, and in Arizona, in the summer swaddling would be tantamount to child abuse. One suggestion: Make the clothes too big, then take them in on all of the seams at 1/2 inch intervals. Then put in a deep hem to the correct length. In this way the clothing may be let out as the child grows. The outfit I made for my son has 4 inches of expansion room around, and 2 inches in length, so he will be able to wear it for awhile. I don't have any evidence that this was done during the 16th century. However, I do know that it was done in the 19th century, and it seems logical (that dangerous word) to suppose (another risky word) that in the 16th century not having to replace the child's entire wardrobe every few months would also be a good thing. -Katie Who is also pleased that my husband has agreed to keep the boy in skirts until he is 5. --- Willow: No, Ma, hear this! I'm a rebel! I'm having a rebellion! Sheila: Willow, honey, you don't need to act out like this to prove your specialness. Willow: Mom, I'm not acting out. I'm a witch! I-I can make pencils float. And I can summon the four elements. Okay, two, but four soon. A-and I'm dating a musician.I worship Beelzebub. I do his biddings. Do you see any goats around? No, because I sacrificed them. Sheila:I'm not listening to this. Willow:Prince of Night, I summon you. Come fill me with your black, naughty evil. ____________________________________________________________ Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 13:43:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHhqLY029189 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:43:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHg31G007954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:42:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHg1ew000476; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:42:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20201.mail.yahoo.com (web20201.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6SHfwew000410 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:41:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030728174158.5359.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [168.103.60.157] by web20201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:41:58 PDT Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:41:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Angela Kessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] Color help To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20030728172744.85382.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here, found a bit of info about Vesuvius in the 19th century: Between the great eruption of 1631 and 1944, Vesuvius is almost always in activity with only brief periods of quiescence not exceeding 7 years. Major eruptions occurred in 1794, 1822, 1834, 1850 e 1872. This site had more information: http://www.vesuvioinrete.it/e_storia.htm -Angela --- Angela Kovatch wrote: > My guess on hearing the color name would be a deep > red, more like an erupting volcano. For comparison, > check out how Nokia and Corian are using the color > name today: > http://www.abmwireless.com/skr72.html > http://www.corian.com/CorianPublic/corian/b/es/h/Colors/SubPaletteWarms.html > (On the Corian page, my image of Vesuvius red was > more > like what they're calling Pompeii red.) > > My next question would be, what was Vesuvius' role > in > current news of the day? If it had recently > erupted, > I would definitely think red rather than grey. I > didn't find an answer in my quick 'net search, but > this site > http://www.cotf.edu/ete/modules/volcanoes/vmtvesuvius.html > seems to suggest that archeology might have been > bringing to light the story of the ancient Pompeii > disaster about the time of your dress. This story > is > very capable of grabbing imaginations and conjuring > up > images of volcanoes in full action, so if it was in > the news, I would personally lean toward the "deep > red" theory for what the color is. > > Just something more to think about. Good luck- > Angela > > --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > > We are trying to figure out what a color would be > on > > an 1863 ball gown. The > > color is a "Vesuvius color". Can someone please > > help us determine what > > color this should be. Below is the description of > > the dress: > > > > Ball dress of white satin silk, trimmed with > > quilling of white ribbon. The > > upper dress is of spotted lace, with a broad > ribbon > > of Vesuvius color around > > of the lace dress. {I believe this is the ribbon > on > > the over-skirt} > > > > We have not finished cleaning this plate but you > can > > see it at > > http://www.costumegallery.com/1863/color1b.jpg > > > > Penny Ladnier > > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > > www.costumegallery.com > > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com > > Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 13:48:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHmuLY029205 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:48:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHlA1G008704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:47:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHl7ew005143; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:47:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.primushost.com (smtp1.primushost.com [209.58.220.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHknex004747 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:46:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp1.primushost.com with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim) id 19hC2G-0006oG-N7; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:43:48 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for id 19hC5c-0002FB-00; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:47:16 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:47:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: "Bice d'Este" Subject: Re: [h-cost] 150th anniversary parade In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Historical Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I did bribe them a bit with new LEgo Bionocles.....last Summer they wouldn't wear the outfits until I took off the small blue ties. Go figure the mind of a 5 year old. Katy On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Bice d'Este wrote: >So lucky! Tarquin has fits when I try to dress him. He's 12 and even at age >4 went on strike when I attempted a Fauntelroy suit. *sigh* I miss those >days. >So glad you had fun! >Bice >http://www.jacquelinejohnson.allhere.com/ >http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie/ >http://calendar.yahoo.com/de_gustibus_non_est_disputandum7 >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Katy Bishop" >To: "historic costume" >Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 10:06 AM >Subject: [h-cost] 150th anniversary parade > > >> >> We were in a parade on Saturday (celebrating my town's 150th anniversary >> as an independent town, though the town was founded in 1630); I and my >> twins and Husband were wearing 1900 dress to celebrate the 50th >> anniversary of 1903. I was very happy to be in a covered car (1930 >> model A Ford, beautiful) not walking in the sun as it was 85 degrees >> out. But at least it wasn't humid. One spectator who videoed us even >> knew what era we were from! The boys even didn't fight me when I tried >> to get them into their sailor outfits. I will try and get pictures up >> soon. Didn't take many digital ones, have to wait for my film. We also >> had a 150th Victorian Ball 2 weeks ago and got great photos there. I >> made a Roman striped flounced 1850's gown much like the one from the >> Cincinnati Museum exhibition catalogue. >> >> One of the ladies in the parade who dressed in 1850's (acetate version >> of the Simplicity flounced dress) had bags of frozen vegetables inside >> her bodice instead of bust pads to keep cool! >> >> I dressed the curator of our Historical society in 1853 dress, who is 70 >> or so. Green velvet bonnet with lots of flowers, a mantle of white >> cotton with eyelet trim (copied from an original in my collection), a >> periwinkle blue silk skirt with petticoats and a silver tussy mussie >> with silk violets. She looked so pretty, like her grandmother who she >> is named for. I was very happy to get her dressed appropriately. >> >> We also lucked out with weather as the humidity was back up to 110 >> percent the next day! >> >> Katy >> >> >> Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian >> vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com >> Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. >> Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 13:57:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHvjLY029225 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:57:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHu11G010030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHtvKq012517; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:55:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHtsKq012422 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:55:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.30.441d9d1a (4410) for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:55:34 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <30.441d9d1a.2c56bd96@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:55:34 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Six Wives To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/28/2003 4:13:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk writes: > Can you elucidate for the benefit of ignorant Protestants? I've always > understood that this was so. Wasn't William Tyndale executed for > translating the Bible into English because his work was considered > subversive? Maybe I'm not the best person to ask, but I went to a Catholic school for seven years and had to take religious courses each year, including "Christology" and "Christian History", both of which had a decidedly Catholic bent..and I've never even heard of the Catholic Church doing such a thing- and I had good teachers, even if I didn't actually want to sit in class each day and read about religion, then get tested on it Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 14:00:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SI0TLY029233 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:00:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHwm1G010440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:58:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHwkKq014749; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:58:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.primushost.com (smtp2.primushost.com [209.58.220.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SHwgKr014629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:58:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp2.primushost.com with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim) id 19hCKH-0003aI-P7; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:02:25 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 19hCH7-0003Su-00; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:59:09 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:59:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Men's Victorian Patterns? In-Reply-To: <3F1E1774.D0E57EFA@erols.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a few man's bathing costumes listed, go to my site and click on the "fashions" link in the righthand menu. http://www.vintagevictorian.com/Victorian.html there will be a link to period bathing costumes for men, all I have there so far is 1899 and 1905. Hope this helps. Katy On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, David S. Mallinak wrote: >Greetings, > >I have been looking for information and patterns for Men's swimwear for >Victorian to 1920's. I could not find much information. I was wondering if >the Costume list had any recommendation. > >Your humble and obediant servant, >David S Mallinak >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 14:50:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SIoKLY029553 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:50:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SIlK1G018032 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:47:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SIlBKq024888; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:47:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from omta01.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SIl6Kq024809 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:47:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (dsnat [216.200.145.62]) by omta01.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57ABD403B for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 179D039D0; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:47:03 -0700 (PDT) From: prairielark To: Historical Costume X-Originating-Ip: [66.162.203.195] Message-Id: <20030728184705.179D039D0@sitemail.everyone.net> Subject: [h-cost] William Tyndale X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is an interesting site dedicated to William Tyndale: http://www.williamtyndale.com/0welcomewilliamtyndale.htm There are others that come up if you search on his name on just about any engine. http://www.tyndale.org/ is one. William Tyndale was a Catholic priest who was strangled (some sources say beheaded) and then burned at the stake for the crime of translating the holy texts into English. It's more complicated than this, and I'm not getting involved in a discussion about who and how.... just passing along the requested information. Phoebe the prairie lark --- IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 7/28/2003 4:13:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, >K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk writes: > >> Can you elucidate for the benefit of ignorant Protestants? I've always >> understood that this was so. Wasn't William Tyndale executed for >> translating the Bible into English because his work was considered >> subversive? > >Maybe I'm not the best person to ask, but I went to a Catholic school for >seven years and had to take religious courses each year, including "Christology" >and "Christian History", both of which had a decidedly Catholic bent..and I've >never even heard of the Catholic Church doing such a thing- and I had good >teachers, even if I didn't actually want to sit in class each day and read about >religion, then get tested on it > >Christine >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Herspace.com [[feed your heart * fuel your art]] http://www.herspace.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 14:58:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SIwQLY029577 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:58:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SIuc1G019510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:56:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SIuar3003181; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:56:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SIuWr3003013 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:56:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.20.163d7583 (16112) for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:56:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-m29.webmail.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (v95.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID124-3ef03f2571d49c; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:56:20 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:56:20 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan baby clothes and Italian pregnancy clothes MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3D30A910.6E23C5BA.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Katie Lewis" wrote: > Then put in a deep hem to the correct length. >I don't have any evidence that this was done during the 16th century. I can document deep hems on children in the 16th century. http://www.artchive.com/artchive/B/bruegel/dance.jpg.html (see the leftmost child in the gray dress) Constance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 15:45:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SJjsLY029675 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:45:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SJi81G026106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:44:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SJi6r3010560; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:44:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SJfDr3008382 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:43:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AC51ECA0034; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:41:05 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AC5067F0210; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:41:04 -0500 Message-ID: <007a01c35540$8a31e720$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307281604.h6SG4xoI021137@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] To Penny Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:43:36 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: [1] theanswerto, see http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S1815 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carol, Did you find out why I am not receiving mail from mail from TLHS? I haven't received mail from the list since May. Your mail may be bouncing this past week to me because someone in China spoofed two of my email addresses and sent out a bunch of porn mail. Some ISP's like AOL and CompuServe have blocked all mail to and from me. We are working on this problem. I don't know how many other ISPs have blocked me. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 15:46:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SJkuLY029682 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:46:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SJj41G026238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:45:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SJj1r3011339; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SJisr3011149 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:44:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD2EEDF0034; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:44:46 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD2D2C025C; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:44:45 -0500 Message-ID: <008401c35541$0e28dca0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200307281258.h6SCwOjo004263@net.indra.com> <3F253EE2.4050308@uvm.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Color help Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:47:18 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: [1] theanswerto, see http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S1815 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hope, Peterson's plates were done as piecework like Godey's. One of my interns does have a copy of the year, so I will ask her to email me a scan of her month's plate. What an excellent idea Hope. Thank you. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 15:50:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SJoVLY029695 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:50:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SJmn1G026725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:48:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SJmlr3014450; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:48:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SJmcr3014235 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:48:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.148.164f5381 (15899) for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:48:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.com (mow-d19.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.135]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v95.1) with ESMTP id MAILINID92-3e1b3f257e0dc7; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:48:29 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:48:29 -0400 From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: RE: [h-cost] William Tyndale MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1BF6DE32.4313646B.349D0FDF@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd like more information about the "bias" comment also... At that time, HENRY was executing translators. In the middle ages there were several translations of portions of the Bible into English. However, in the fourteenth century, the rise and fall of the Lollards set the stage for the reformation. ************************************* Executed for translating the Bible into the vernacular: John Wycliffe (1330-1384) *technically* he wasn't executed, but in 1415, the Council of Constance decreed that his bones were dragged from the grave and burned *********************** William Tyndale (1494-1535) Burned at the stake *********************** John Rogers (Thomas Matthew) burned at the stake by Mary *********************** And if they don't count, what about George Marsh of Chester, Derek Carver of Brighton, William Wolsey and Robert Piggott of Wisbech? Oh. Obligatory costume content: Whee! I have everything done for Pennsic - can't wait to see you there! Constance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 16:27:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SKRRLY030405 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:27:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SKKi1G001458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:20:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SKKg6c011804; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:20:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SKKb6c011733 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:20:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h6SKKboI031717 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:20:37 -0400 Message-Id: <200307282020.h6SKKboI031717@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:16:55 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] To Penny From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny Ladnier said: > Carol, > > Did you find out why I am not receiving mail from mail from TLHS? I haven't > received mail from the list since May. Hi Penny, In April, Frank (the list owner) unsubbed everyone and we all had to resubscribe through the web page. He was having trouble with duplicate addresses, bounced e-mail, etc. Did you remember to resubscribe? And for the rest of the list :-), www.tlhs.com has a section with instructions on how to subscribe to the e-mail list. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 16:29:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SKT1LY030411 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:29:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SKPm1G002191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:25:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SKPl6c015996; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:25:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from omta01.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SKPh6c015937 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:25:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (dsnat [216.200.145.62]) by omta01.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 727C81C3666 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 590813A33; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:25:42 -0700 (PDT) From: prairielark To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] William Tyndale & refs X-Originating-Ip: [66.162.203.195] Message-Id: <20030728202543.590813A33@sitemail.everyone.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Search engines are wonderful things... http://www.ianpaisley.org/martyrs.asp A site dedicated to the European Institute of Protestant Studies. If you look over the site's decidedly anti-Catholic bent in the first pages, there are some interesting primary source-quoted refs on the people Constance mentioned. Obligatory costume bent: I've always wanted to do this period (Tudor England), and the more I read about it, the more fascinating it appears. Any good costume refs I might begin with? Thanks ever so, Phoebe the prairie lark --- ConstanceFairfax@cs.com wrote: >I'd like more information about the "bias" comment also... >At that time, HENRY was executing translators. > >In the middle ages there were several translations of portions of the Bible into English. However, in the fourteenth century, the rise and fall of the Lollards set the stage for the reformation. >************************************* >Executed for translating the Bible into the vernacular: >John Wycliffe (1330-1384) >*technically* he wasn't executed, but in 1415, the Council of Constance decreed that his bones were dragged from the grave and burned >*********************** >William Tyndale (1494-1535) >Burned at the stake >*********************** >John Rogers (Thomas Matthew) >burned at the stake by Mary >*********************** >And if they don't count, what about George Marsh of Chester, Derek Carver of Brighton, William Wolsey and Robert Piggott of Wisbech? > >Oh. Obligatory costume content: Whee! I have everything done for Pennsic - can't wait to see you there! > >Constance >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Herspace.com [[feed your heart * fuel your art]] http://www.herspace.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 17:14:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SLEOLY030553 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:14:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SLDs1G009249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:13:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SLDqi7025356; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:13:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SLDli7025247 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:13:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h6SLELX28053 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:14:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:14:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200307282114.h6SLELX28053@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] William Tyndale & refs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO prairielark > > http://www.ianpaisley.org/martyrs.asp > A site dedicated to the European Institute of Protestant Studies. If you look over the site's decidedly anti-Catholic bent in the first pages, there are some interesting primary source-quoted refs on the people Constance mentioned. [cringe] For those who are somewhat ignorant of current events in the UK and ireland, Ian Paisley is sort of the equivalent of Fred Phelps. I'd take anything at his site with a bag of salt, as there's likely to be more than just a *little* bias there. A very short page on "outlawed english" http://www.smu.edu/bridwell/publications/ryrie_catalog/7_1.htm A longer, but somewhat biased account of english translations of the bible: http://www.greatsite.com/engbibhis/ [atheist, no stake in either side] Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 17:26:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SLQRLY030580 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:26:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SLPo1G010926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:25:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SLPmi7005016; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:25:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SLPii7004936 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:25:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A859236A85 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:25:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19hFV1-0000o8-00 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:25:43 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] William Tyndale & refs In-Reply-To: <20030728202543.590813A33@sitemail.everyone.net> References: <20030728202543.590813A33@sitemail.everyone.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:25:43 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Phoebe wrote: > I've always wanted to do this period (Tudor England), and the more I read about it, the more fascinating it appears. Any good costume refs I might begin with? For books, take a look at the bibliography here: http://elizabethangeek.com/biblio/ I mention the general link because there are other topic headings as well as a few for costume, which might be of interest to people. But if you click on "Browse by subject" you'll see entries there for a bunch of costume books, many with reviews. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 18:00:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SM0FLY030631 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:00:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SLxm1G015204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:59:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SLxj5s002106; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:59:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SLxe5s001943 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:59:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-123-176.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.123.176]) 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id AGM76247; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 22:59:32 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <003501c35554$2ac9fc00$b07b4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "LIST H costume" Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 23:04:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [h-cost] Shoes hidden in buildings X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quick update on this. I'm just back from a dig where I saw a friend who did her PhD on shoes (not hidden shoes) . Anyhow I mentioned the hidden clothing etc in passing and she mentioned how often the hidden shoes were just like mini burials and very deliberate rather than stuffed by accident or by lazy builders. Shoes she had come across were mostly adult and mostly worn, ie not worn out but not new. Anyway not much but a little to add to the topic. There's a paper wanting on these I think............ Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 18:24:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SMOdLY030675 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:24:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SMO31G018514 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:24:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SMO05s022278; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SMNs5s022135 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:23:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19hGPH-0002oc-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 23:23:51 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 22:23:51 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan baby clothes and Italian pregnancy clothes References: <4.3.1.2.20030727132319.04dc8f00@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030727132319.04dc8f00@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The baby farthingale sounds very cute, but since baby walkers *are* period, why not fancy up the babywalker (wrap in brown paper and varnish?) and let it show? Jean Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote > >>1. Elizabethan baby clothes for a friend's baby > >Baby walkers are period, the earliest in-period example of which I have >seen was from the late 1400s. So I found a round-topped baby walker, >and did an Elizabethan for my first daughter, with a skirt that was >long enough and full enough to cover the walker, but short enough to >not get in the way of the wheels. So there she was at her first >Twelfthnight, at age 10 months and not walking yet, toddling around in >what looked like a drum farthingale Elizabethan. Leading strings are >also period, so I could keep a rein on her, as it were. > > CarolynKayta Barrows >dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 18:42:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SMgOLY030699 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:42:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SMfr1G020965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:41:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SMfq5s007122; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:41:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt30.cluster1.charter.net (remt30.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SMfl5s006988 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:41:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [68.185.167.6] (HELO laptop) by remt30.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with SMTP id 102347321 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:41:42 -0400 Message-ID: <00a101c35559$5a492820$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <30.441d9d1a.2c56bd96@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:41:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Re: English Protestant history X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK, first my credentials: I grew up in the Roman Catholic Church and went through 12 years of Catholic schools. I am deeply interested in the Elizabethan era and the English Reformation, so I've been doing some reading on this sort of subject. So, I have seen things from both sides of the fence. The Catholic Church was not against vernacular translations, per se, but they did have to be authorized by the Vatican/Pope first. They also (IIRC) had to be translated from the Latin Vulgate which was the authorized Catholic translation at the time. The Vulgate was first written by St. Jerome in the 2nd-3rd cent. A.D. One of the things Tyndale, et al, were doing was translating from the original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. The Catholic Church really didn't like that much, because they did want to make sure that they were in charge of interpretation. Their reasoning was that the common person did not have enough education to understand and interpret Scripture and would be led to heresy by trying to figure it out themselves. In part, they were right - the common person was not highly educated or literate up until the 16th century. The movable printing press exploded the opportunity to publish books, and subsequently more people were being educated. Here's a few links that give the argument from both sides Protestant: http://www.bible-researcher.com/cath-intro.html Catholic: http://www.bible-researcher.com/catholic-intro.html If you have any more questions, or want some more details, email me off list - I'd be happy to babble for awhile :-) Obligatory Costume Content: When Elizabeth took the throne and put the Church of England back into place, there was some huffing and puffing about the wearing of vestments by the clergy - those who were stricter Protestants thought the vestments reeked of popery and wanted to ditch them. There was finally some compromise in that they only had to wear some of the old vestments, not all of them. > > > Can you elucidate for the benefit of ignorant Protestants? I've always > > understood that this was so. Wasn't William Tyndale executed for > > translating the Bible into English because his work was considered > > subversive? > ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 19:52:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SNqYLY030790 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:52:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SNq31G005558 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:52:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SNq1gU001667; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SNpxgU001603 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:51:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a261.in-tch.com [66.62.107.61]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6SNWTL15904 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:32:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F25B78D.2BD139@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:53:49 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] William Tyndale & refs References: <20030728202543.590813A33@sitemail.everyone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I guess it'd have an anti-Catholic bend! Ooooh, just the name of Ian Paisley raises my hackles...... --sue, who might poke around in there anyway.... p.s. OCC: Drea's website has scads of wonderful things for 16th c. costuming (including the later Tudors). Check her out at: http://costume.dm.net/ prairielark wrote: > > Search engines are wonderful things... > > http://www.ianpaisley.org/martyrs.asp > A site dedicated to the European Institute of Protestant Studies. If you look over the site's decidedly anti-Catholic bent in the first pages, there are some interesting primary source-quoted refs on the people Constance mentioned. > > Obligatory costume bent: > > I've always wanted to do this period (Tudor England), and the more I read about it, the more fascinating it appears. Any good costume refs I might begin with? > > Thanks ever so, > Phoebe > > the prairie lark > > --- ConstanceFairfax@cs.com wrote: > >I'd like more information about the "bias" comment also... > >At that time, HENRY was executing translators. > > > >In the middle ages there were several translations of portions of the Bible into English. However, in the fourteenth century, the rise and fall of the Lollards set the stage for the reformation. > >************************************* > >Executed for translating the Bible into the vernacular: > >John Wycliffe (1330-1384) > >*technically* he wasn't executed, but in 1415, the Council of Constance decreed that his bones were dragged from the grave and burned > >*********************** > >William Tyndale (1494-1535) > >Burned at the stake > >*********************** > >John Rogers (Thomas Matthew) > >burned at the stake by Mary > >*********************** > >And if they don't count, what about George Marsh of Chester, Derek Carver of Brighton, William Wolsey and Robert Piggott of Wisbech? > > > >Oh. Obligatory costume content: Whee! I have everything done for Pennsic - can't wait to see you there! > > > >Constance > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _____________________________________________________________ > Herspace.com > [[feed your heart * fuel your art]] > http://www.herspace.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 19:55:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SNtPLY030796 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:55:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SNt11G005830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:55:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SNsxgU003256; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:54:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SNsugU003202 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:54:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a261.in-tch.com [66.62.107.61]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6SNZRL17189 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:35:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F25B83F.57722FF@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:56:47 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] William Tyndale & refs References: <200307282114.h6SLELX28053@gw.retro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Okay, now, I'm quite aware of who Paisley is, but who's Fred Phelps? --sue, curiously.... Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > > [cringe] For those who are somewhat ignorant of current events in the UK > and ireland, Ian Paisley is sort of the equivalent of Fred Phelps. I'd > take anything at his site with a bag of salt, as there's likely to be more > than just a *little* bias there. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 20:11:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T0BQLY030863 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:11:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T0B21G007358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T0B1bV012532; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web9407.mail.yahoo.com (web9407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6T0AxbV012514 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:10:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030729001059.97286.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.239.171] by web9407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:10:59 PDT Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:10:59 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Would love to get together with other H-costumers for lunch.I'm teaching both saturday and sunday in the mornings (metal thread embroidery)--but could be free for lunch by 1pm. Albra jessica stier wrote: I will be at C.C. but will not be attending the Gala. However, I will have a red H on my name tag so I hope to meet you all in person. I am not against a little get together. Maybe one of the less busy evenings we can meet for dinner or something??? Maybe we can have the cool kids lunch table where we all wear red H's and matching bomber jackets. We can be the H-Cost Crew... Anyway, see you all in a couple of days!!! This is going to be so much fun!!!!!!!!!!! :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jul 28 22:59:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T2xLLY031124 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 22:59:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T2ws1G023297 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:58:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T2wnY8015932; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:58:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-int-02.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-02.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.156]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6T2wjY8015888 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:58:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 14312 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2003 02:58:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO castlebooks) (208.166.66.233) by smtp-int-02.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 29 Jul 2003 02:58:44 -0000 Message-ID: <00b501c3557d$55235e00$6542a6d0@castlebooks> From: "Janet Davis" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fans (cross post) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 22:58:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You have my sympathies - first I got a new computer that needed all my old stuff put in then 5 months later the new computer had to be wiped and reformated. Anyway, I think this link came from this list this winter: http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_fans.htm Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http://www.medievalbookstore.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 29 01:11:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T5BPLY031775 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 01:11:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T50t1G003673 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jul 2003 23:00:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T50rpb018252; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 23:00:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f124.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T50npb018160 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 23:00:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 22:00:44 -0700 Received: from 129.244.252.28 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 05:00:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.252.28] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shoes hidden in buildings Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 00:00:43 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jul 2003 05:00:44.0021 (UTC) FILETIME=[5D941A50:01C3558E] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "Melanie Wilson" >...There's a paper wanting on these I think............ I believe Brian Hoggard is writing his dissertation on this topic, although based on his earlier works I believe he's probably going to be coming from the "they are all ritually concealed" perspective. Much of his stuff is available on the web. Marc _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 29 02:48:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T6msLY018392 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 02:48:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T6mS1G012348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 00:48:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T6mQWa010567; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 00:48:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T6mMWa010520 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 00:48:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h6T6mun29536 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 23:48:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 23:48:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200307290648.h6T6mun29536@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] William Tyndale & refs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Okay, now, I'm quite aware of who Paisley is, but who's Fred Phelps? A fundamentalist preacher who likes to picket funerals of AIDS victims with charming signs like "GOD HATES FAGS." Worse, he gets his grandkids to carry the signs on the reasoning that no one would argue with 6 and 7 year olds. A thoroughly disgusting man. --Lee [if you have a strong stomach, read the story of his son: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/michael_haggerty/expose3.htm ] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 29 04:08:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T88lLY016078 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 04:08:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T87T1G017870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 02:07:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T87PfK014942; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 02:07:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T87LfK014917 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 02:07:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h6T87Jp29965.; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:07:19 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:07:19 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:06:54 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Re: English Protestant history Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for this, Rebecca. To others who replied, yes, I did know that Tyndale was really executed, I was just puzzled by Gail's assertion that the comment made in the programme was incorrect and biased. Of course, in my period (mid 17th century) all sorts of weird sects did spring up as a result of semi-educated people interpreting the Bible. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> lotsofteapots@charter.net 07/28/03 11:41pm >>> OK, first my credentials: I grew up in the Roman Catholic Church and went through 12 years of Catholic schools. I am deeply interested in the Elizabethan era and the English Reformation, so I've been doing some reading on this sort of subject. So, I have seen things from both sides of the fence. The Catholic Church was not against vernacular translations, per se, but they did have to be authorized by the Vatican/Pope first. They also (IIRC) had to be translated from the Latin Vulgate which was the authorized Catholic translation at the time. The Vulgate was first written by St. Jerome in the 2nd-3rd cent. A.D. One of the things Tyndale, et al, were doing was translating from the original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. The Catholic Church really didn't like that much, because they did want to make sure that they were in charge of interpretation. Their reasoning was that the common person did not have enough education to understand and interpret Scripture and would be led to heresy by trying to figure it out themselves. In part, they were right - the common person was not highly educated or literate up until the 16th century. The movable printing press exploded the opportunity to publish books, and subsequently more people were being educated. Here's a few links that give the argument from both sides Protestant: http://www.bible-researcher.com/cath-intro.html Catholic: http://www.bible-researcher.com/catholic-intro.html If you have any more questions, or want some more details, email me off list - I'd be happy to babble for awhile :-) Obligatory Costume Content: When Elizabeth took the throne and put the Church of England back into place, there was some huffing and puffing about the wearing of vestments by the clergy - those who were stricter Protestants thought the vestments reeked of popery and wanted to ditch them. There was finally some compromise in that they only had to wear some of the old vestments, not all of them. > > > Can you elucidate for the benefit of ignorant Protestants? I've always > > understood that this was so. Wasn't William Tyndale executed for > > translating the Bible into English because his work was considered > > subversive? > ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 29 04:18:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T8IDLY018942 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 04:18:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T8Hm1G018749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 02:17:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T8HlfK019542; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 02:17:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6T8HjfK019499 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 02:17:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.66]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82646BEC7C for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:17:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F262E7A.5080103@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:21:14 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Embroidered borders X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just have to share this. Go to fabricks and then to embroidered borders. They are so beautiful http://www.hansson-silks.co.uk/catalogue.html Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 29 09:25:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TDPaLY003757 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:25:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TDOE1G012980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:24:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TDOBYH008006; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:24:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TDO9YH007908 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:24:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m116.in-tch.com [216.166.191.116]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6TD4eL09576 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:04:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F2675E8.34F26B8A@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:26:00 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] William Tyndale & refs References: <200307290648.h6T6mun29536@gw.retro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, THAT guy! blech! ptui! Thanks for refreshing my memory, though.... --sue Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > > >Okay, now, I'm quite aware of who Paisley is, but who's Fred Phelps? > > A fundamentalist preacher who likes to picket funerals of AIDS victims > with charming signs like "GOD HATES FAGS." Worse, he gets his grandkids > to carry the signs on the reasoning that no one would argue with 6 and 7 > year olds. A thoroughly disgusting man. > > --Lee > [if you have a strong stomach, read the story of his son: > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/michael_haggerty/expose3.htm ] > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 29 09:28:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TDSULY003761 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:28:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TDRs1G013326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:27:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TDRsYH010327; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:27:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6TDRpYH010297 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:27:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 99490 invoked by uid 1005); 29 Jul 2003 13:27:46 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.245673 secs); 29 Jul 2003 13:27:46 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.245673 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 29 Jul 2003 13:27:46 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:27:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Embroidered borders In-Reply-To: <3F262E7A.5080103@kabelfoon.nl> Message-ID: <20030729092742.V75758-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Groan! WANT! Drea On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, Deredere Galbraith wrote: > I just have to share this. > > Go to fabricks and then to embroidered borders. > They are so beautiful > http://www.hansson-silks.co.uk/catalogue.html > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 29 09:40:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TDeuLY003782 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:40:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TDeS1G014266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:40:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TDeRYH017250; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:40:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41501.mail.yahoo.com (web41501.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6TDeIYH017112 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:40:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030729134012.62674.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41501.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:40:12 BST Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:40:12 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Embroidered borders To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20030729092742.V75758-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO They are actually very nice for real. Been to Hansson's a few times, lovely borders, though frankly I would not use them for really authentic stuff, while they are super lovely they look like Indian modern day bridal embroidery,which they are. However... WANT for some modern clothes! Nicole --- Drea Leed wrote: > Groan! WANT! > > Drea > > > On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, Deredere Galbraith wrote: > > > I just have to share this. > > > > Go to fabricks and then to embroidered borders. > > They are so beautiful > > http://www.hansson-silks.co.uk/catalogue.html > > > > Greetings, > > Deredere > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 29 11:26:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TFPxLY003977 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:25:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TFPH3O003609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:25:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TFPCC3004266; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:25:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TFP5C3004159 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:25:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f29.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.41]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 623435EE1F1 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:25:04 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002101c355e5$e7992130$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:27:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] =?iso-8859-1?q?Frande_F=EAte_a_la_Nature?= X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, Here is my report of my visit to Sweden and the Gustavian Society "Gustafs Skl" It was unforgetable beautifull, sigh wished it could go on forever............. Pictures on www.my-drewscostumes.dk if you click on the link Grande Fete a la Nature. But it is only half the pictures, more to come later. The swedish society Gustafs Skl invited their members to celebrate their 10th. anaversary with a Grande Fte a la Nature on 26th of july. It was to be held at the Ecco Temple in the beautifull Haga Park in Stockholm. I had to travel by train for 7 hours to get to Stockholm, and it was my first visit in joining the Gustavian Society there, although i have ben a member for a coupple of years now. I was full of excitement to come, but i was also a little conscerned if the weather would be nice. I did not know anything about the Ekko Temple, and i thoaght that it wa just a little garden pavillion. If it was going to be rain, how would there be space enough for the 80 people who was going to come? I was going to visit Kathleen Newman, and she and i had ben invited to come to Camilla Blum's apartment in the city for a glass of wine, before we went on to the party. Camilla has a charming gustavian apartment and it was quite in the style of the 18th. century when we came fully dressed there to entertain the ladies in getting dressed. Marie Weinefalck was also there getting dressed in her new white gustavian court dress. It was absolutely beautifull, i had never seen that style before. We had a wonderfull time in Camilla's apartment before we took a carriage to the park. Haga Park was created in the time of Gustaf III and made in the new romantic style inspired by the english gardens. But let me tell you here, that my consern about the weather was blessed. It was fine sunshine and very hot temperature. The Ekko Temple was huge. It was told me that Fustaf III had made this temple for himself and his court to take his dinners here in the summertime. It was painted in beautifull colours. Inside the ceiling was painted sky blue, so that it gave you the impression that it was the sky you looked at when you looked up. We were introduced to the other members who had come. Let me tell you that i was very impressed by their clothes, they were so beautifull.This you will notice, when you see the pictures i took there. ( I love the swedish style, perhaps because i am a scandinavian myself.) One of the best things of the party was a long walk trough the park, with small events under the way. We looked at some enchanted tableaus. The first was the swedish "Creature" - "Ncken" wich is an unnatural beast living in the lake. (it was a troll, naked playing his violin) The next event was a lady performing a court danse from Louis XIV's court. She did her performing in another beautifull garden temple, wich name i alas has forgotten.. As it was a long walk, and it was hot i can tell you, the society had provided servants to bring lovely cold drinks of "Brndvin" wich is some spirits with different fruit tastes. Very lovely, i tasted all of them :-) Some other events on the way was song and music played on a lute with Bellman songs, - another performance with a danse with klapper trees, - some other mytological figures, and a witch who told us fortune tales. After the long walk, people came back to the Ekko Temple where we spread out our blankets and enjoyed cold drinks. The dinner was held inside the temple, where they had made beautifull tables with candlelights. A large table was full of tasty lovely dishes, you could pick anything you liked, including some wonderfull deserts and coffe after the dinner. During the dinner, there was lovely entertaintment with Bellman songs. Just before midnigt, crayfish was served with "brndvin" It was a lovely lovely day and evening. I will never forget it, and i would really recomend Lumieres members to come and visit your brothers and sisters in the spirit in the beautifull green land of Sweden, when they invite for a party next time............. N:B finally the last thing! --- A strange thing happened arround midnight! Suddently there was a light in the bedchamber of Gustaf III at the Haga Pallace. And some of the members told us, that they had seen the shadow of the king in the window. Could this have ben the kings ghost that wanted to tell us that he apreciated our party? I am sure it was. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 29 11:35:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TFZJLY004015 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:35:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TFYj3O004934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:34:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TFYiC3011940; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:34:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TFYgC3011905 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:34:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19hWUr-0002od-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:34:41 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_=5Bh-cost=5D__Frande_F=EAte_a_la_Nature?= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:34:59 -0700 Message-ID: <002401c355e6$f88f8460$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <002101c355e5$e7992130$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lovely pictures Bjarne! I loved the fellow playing by the lake...we American's are so uptight about stuff like that! It just looked so tranquil and 'right' for your party. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 29 12:09:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TG9kLY004075 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:09:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TG9D3O010321 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:09:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TG9BUI009784; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:09:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.nameserver.tv (mail.nameserver.tv [209.144.109.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TG98UI009736 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:09:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from TEENALAPTOP ([206.148.41.12]) by mail.nameserver.tv (Merak 5.8.6) with SMTP id ABG74101 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:08:06 -0700 Message-ID: <002401c355eb$15fb4490$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002101c355e5$e7992130$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5Bh-cost=5D__Frande_F=EAte_a_la_Nature?= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:04:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am so jealous that there are not such events where I live. It looked like a wonderful event and everyone looked lovely! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 11:27 AM Subject: [h-cost] Frande Fte a la Nature > Hello, > Here is my report of my visit to Sweden and the Gustavian Society "Gustafs > Skl" > It was unforgetable beautifull, sigh wished it could go on > forever............. > > Pictures on www.my-drewscostumes.dk if you click on the link Grande Fete a > la Nature. But it is only half the pictures, more to come later. > > The swedish society Gustafs Skl invited their members to celebrate their > 10th. anaversary with a Grande Fte a la Nature on 26th of july. > It was to be held at the Ecco Temple in the beautifull Haga Park in > Stockholm. > I had to travel by train for 7 hours to get to Stockholm, and it was my > first visit in joining the Gustavian Society there, although i have ben a > member for a coupple of years now. > I was full of excitement to come, but i was also a little conscerned if the > weather would be nice. I did not know anything about the Ekko Temple, and i > thoaght that it wa just a little garden pavillion. If it was going to be > rain, how would there be space enough for the 80 people who was going to > come? > I was going to visit Kathleen Newman, and she and i had ben invited to come > to Camilla Blum's apartment in the city for a glass of wine, before we went > on to the party. > Camilla has a charming gustavian apartment and it was quite in the style of > the 18th. century when we came fully dressed there to entertain the ladies > in getting dressed. > Marie Weinefalck was also there getting dressed in her new white gustavian > court dress. It was absolutely beautifull, i had never seen that style > before. > We had a wonderfull time in Camilla's apartment before we took a carriage to > the park. > Haga Park was created in the time of Gustaf III and made in the new romantic > style inspired by the english gardens. > But let me tell you here, that my consern about the weather was blessed. It > was fine sunshine and very hot temperature. > The Ekko Temple was huge. It was told me that Fustaf III had made this > temple for himself and his court to take his dinners here in the summertime. > It was painted in beautifull colours. Inside the ceiling was painted sky > blue, so that it gave you the impression that it was the sky you looked at > when you looked up. > We were introduced to the other members who had come. Let me tell you that i > was very impressed by their clothes, they were so beautifull.This you will > notice, when you see the pictures i took there. ( I love the swedish style, > perhaps because i am a scandinavian myself.) > One of the best things of the party was a long walk trough the park, with > small events under the way. We looked at some enchanted tableaus. The first > was the swedish "Creature" - "Ncken" wich is an unnatural beast living in > the lake. (it was a troll, naked playing his violin) > The next event was a lady performing a court danse from Louis XIV's court. > She did her performing in another beautifull garden temple, wich name i alas > has forgotten.. > As it was a long walk, and it was hot i can tell you, the society had > provided servants to bring lovely cold drinks of "Brndvin" wich is some > spirits with different fruit tastes. Very lovely, i tasted all of them :-) > Some other events on the way was song and music played on a lute with > Bellman songs, - another performance with a danse with klapper trees, - some > other mytological figures, and a witch who told us fortune tales. > > After the long walk, people came back to the Ekko Temple where we spread out > our blankets and enjoyed cold drinks. > The dinner was held inside the temple, where they had made beautifull tables > with candlelights. A large table was full of tasty lovely dishes, you could > pick anything you liked, including some wonderfull deserts and coffe after > the dinner. > During the dinner, there was lovely entertaintment with Bellman songs. > Just before midnigt, crayfish was served with "brndvin" > > It was a lovely lovely day and evening. I will never forget it, and i would > really recomend Lumieres members to come and visit your brothers and sisters > in the spirit in the beautifull green land of Sweden, when they invite for a > party next time............. > > N:B finally the last thing! --- A strange thing happened arround midnight! > Suddently there was a light in the bedchamber of Gustaf III at the Haga > Pallace. And some of the members told us, that they had seen the shadow of > the king in the window. > Could this have ben the kings ghost that wanted to tell us that he > apreciated our party? > I am sure it was. > > > > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 29 14:52:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TIqJLY004478 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:52:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TIoc3O002836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:50:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TIoZWq022127; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:50:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from stanford.loosefoot.com (stanford.loosefoot.com [207.195.54.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TIoWWq022057 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:50:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bernie.loosefoot.com (bernie.loosefoot.com [207.195.54.243]) by stanford.loosefoot.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1F2F11624C7 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:50:31 -0600 (CST) Received: (qmail 18198 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2003 18:50:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mabion.spublofe.com) (66.75.70.46) by bernie.loosefoot.com with SMTP; 29 Jul 2003 18:50:30 -0000 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20030729114715.00a04ec0@pop3.lfchosting.com> X-Sender: mabse/spublofe.com@pop3.lfchosting.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:48:56 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones In-Reply-To: <200307260757.h6Q7vRi2022054@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 456 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If I see a doll carrying an h, I am pretty sure that it will be unmistakable. Hmmm, now I want to make a doll to carry my h. Oh well, all my partially finished dolls are in Sacramento and I am already in LA. I guess you don't have to worry about me copying you. Maryann At 01:57 AM 7/26/2003 -0600, you wrote: >And is it ok if I let the doll on my shoulder carry my H for me? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 29 14:52:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TIqOLY004481 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:52:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TDSY1G013438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:28:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TDSXYH010705; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:28:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TDSVYH010637 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:28:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m116.in-tch.com [216.166.191.116]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6TD92L11337 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F2676EE.C89D58E2@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:30:22 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Embroidered borders References: <3F262E7A.5080103@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh. My. Gawd.... --sue, grabbing a drool rag before she shorts out her keyboard... Deredere Galbraith wrote: > > I just have to share this. > > Go to fabricks and then to embroidered borders. > They are so beautiful > http://www.hansson-silks.co.uk/catalogue.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 29 15:20:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TJK7LY004526 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:20:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TJH93O006496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:17:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TJH7Wt012905; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:17:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TJH3Wt012840 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-007scfairp0082.dialsprint.net ([63.189.128.82] helo=faucet.net) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19hZxx-0005ZS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:16:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3F26D56E.9010501@faucet.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:13:34 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <002101c355e5$e7992130$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Williamsburg, Folger Elizabeth I exhibit, DC X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings to All First, my thanks to all who sent information regarding the clothing exhibit at Colonial Williamsburg. I recommend it to anyone who will be in the area. It was very well-done, and there was a wealth of information for the scholar as well as clarity for the general public. The exhibit is arranged more by theme than chronologically, though there is a fairly clear chronology throughout. I spent a rather large proportion of my day at Williamsburg drooling over this exhibit. http://www.history.org/visit/eventsAndExhibits/calendar/index.cfm?showThisEvent=14081 If you're going to Colonial Williamsburg, you'll probably be going through Richmond, VA, where you should visit Agecroft Hall, which is a 15th/16th/17th c. (it was expanded several times) manor house that was moved over from England in the 1920s. It has been substantially reconfigured, so that the original arrangement of rooms is nowhere in evidence, but they have done a fairly good job of decorating several rooms "in the style of" the 16th and early 17th centuries. There are some very nice period items, including a painted four-post bed with sea monsters, mustachioed angels and such on it and several nice portraits. Agecroft also has well-done gardens (though I'm certainly no expert on that). http://www.agecrofthall.com/ Next door to Agecroft Hall is Virginia House, which I didn't have time to see, but which is apparently a house made from pieces of an English priory (15th/16th c?). I have no idea what is inside it, but it is open for tours. After Richmond, I went to Washington DC and visited the Elizabeth I exhibit at the Folger, which is very impressive. There's a lovely catalog for $40, which I'm sure is in their online store. On display are several items of interest to costumers, including six figures which are supposed to be Irish people of different social levels (male and female, rustica, plebeia, nobilia) from the VERY late 16th or possibly early 17th century. Unfortunately, they are largely muffled in cloaks, but they are some of the few images of (possibly) 16th-c. Irish that I know of. http://www.folger.edu/Home_02B.html http://www.folger.edu/public/exhibit/current.asp If you're in DC anyway, check out the west wing of the National Gallery, which has some great 16th-century Italian and German portraits (mostly Italian right now, as the German galleries are being renovated). Most of them can be found in books, but seeing the details up close is not to be missed. Unfortunately, the National Portrait Gallery is closed until 2006. Deadly bookstore on the lower concourse between the west wing and the east wing... http://www.nga.gov/ Also in DC is the Textile Museum, which currently has a display of lovely Andalusian rugs from the 15th and 16th centuries. There's a clear progression of design, and some of them have heraldry. Another floor has a well-done exhibit on various textile production methods, including weaving, knotting, various types of dyeing, etc. This one is good for kids, as it has several interactive parts. By the way, they have an amazing bookstore for textile texts--if there's something specific you're looking for, you might contact them. http://www.textilemuseum.org/ http://www.textilemuseum.org/exhibitions/current.htm The Smithsonian Museum of African Art currently has a Moroccan textiles display that is mouth-watering. There are little proximity meters that set off a recorded message saying "please do not touch the exhibit" if you cross the invisible line. My friend and I managed to set them off several times by getting our noses too close! http://www.nmafa.si.edu/default.htm http://www.nmafa.si.edu/exhibits/fabric/index.html Cheers, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 29 15:25:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TJPwLY004541 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:25:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TJOC3O007625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:24:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TJNuWt018515; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:23:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from SRVNODE7.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6TJNmWt018260 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:23:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by SRVNODE7.cho.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:23:32 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20030729114715.00a04ec0@pop3.lfchosting.com> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20030729114715.00a04ec0@pop3.lfchosting.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:27:02 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lynn Downward Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 456 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've already packed a red sharpie and anyone who sees my red h and wants to borrow it is welcome to. LynnD Can't wait, can't wait, can't wait. We're going to LACMA and FIDM and the Getty, oh and shopping too! Cal Millinery, here we come! >If I see a doll carrying an h, I am pretty sure that it will be >unmistakable. Hmmm, now I want to make a doll to carry my h. Oh >well, all my partially finished dolls are in Sacramento and I am >already in LA. I guess you don't have to worry about me copying >you. Maryann > >At 01:57 AM 7/26/2003 -0600, you wrote: >>And is it ok if I let the doll on my shoulder carry my H for me? > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 29 17:23:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TLNSLY004850 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:23:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TLKL3O024308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:20:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TLKIFY025142; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:20:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TLKDFY025056 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:20:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.156] (pm5-156.eos.net [205.133.149.156]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18386 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:20:10 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:13:13 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200307281258.h6SCwOjp004263@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: bible comment X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate: I don't want to start the Reformation all over again! So let's see how I can explain it ... The reason I got angry at Starkey's statement is because it was a swipe at the church and a gross generalization at the same time. Either one I could brush off but not both at the same time, especially on a purportedly educational program. To me, it's as ignorant a statement as "Corsets were painful symbols of male domination, which women were supposed to accept with blind obedience." We'd all have a good go at that one! It's true that at the time the church did not allow vernacular translations of the Bible. But the rule had been around for centuries, it was not new, and like everything else it had complex reasons -- some of them political, some of them religious, and some of them just plain practical. The Bible, remember, is not one book but a collection of many books. The sheer task of translating all of them was and is immense -- not to mention checking that each of the translations of each of the book was faithful to the Latin originals (they weren't going back to the Greek and Hebrew yet). Father Knox took decades to do his English translation in the early twentieth century, and today's translations (which are always being revised) are done by whole teams of scholars. One language meant one authorized text and venacular translations meant many. And as far as allowing laity to read the Bible -- laity were always allowed to read the Bible, if they could get one. The reason psalters and books of hours were so wildly popular was that rich laity could actually afford to have them. Hand-copied Bibles were huge and fabulously expensive. Printing changed all that and made the Bible accessible not just to large numbers of people, but also to large numbers of people who couldn't read Latin. All educated people in the Middle Ages could read Latin, but by the time of the Reformation many people could read, but could only read their native languages. So much of the furor over printed vernacular versions of the Bible was about technology and education outstripping the way things had been done for centuries. I'm not arguing that the Catholic Church didn't want people to accept its teachings; obviously it did. But that's hardly a sinister thing. We had the Reformation and now EVERY church wants everyone to accept its teachings, and no one gets upset over that. It's just plain insulting to say that "the Catholic Church wanted everyone to follow its teachings with blind obedience." And it's bad history to boot. As I said before, if that's an example of his scholarship, then I'l stick with other historians. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 29 17:32:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TLWbLY004873 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:32:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TLTg3O025694 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:29:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TLTeFY003477; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:29:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TLTbFY003413 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:29:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.156] (pm5-156.eos.net [205.133.149.156]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21002 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:29:35 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:23:19 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200307290259.h6T2xSY9016395@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Tyndale X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, several people were executed for English translations of the Bible, but not ONLY for that. You have to remember that religious and secular governments overlapped for much of the middle ages, part of which caused the Reformation in the first place. Nearly every issue theology had a political ramification -- there was no separation of church and state. It's very complex, and it doesn't help anyone understand the time -- which, after all, is the root of many relgious and political problems in our own day -- to simplify these issues. Costume content: Henry VIII, his daughters, Luther, Calvin, Jan Huus, et al -- wore clothes Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 29 17:58:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TLwkLY004924 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:58:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TLti3O028888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:55:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TLtgt5024250; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:55:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6TLtct5024203 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:55:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-118-212-195.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO elizabethanlady.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@67.118.212.195 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jul 2003 21:55:38 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:55:03 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bible comment Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <4EFA24C4-C20F-11D7-B425-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The reason I got angry at Starkey's statement is because it was a > swipe at > the church and a gross generalization at the same time. Either one I > could > brush off but not both at the same time, especially on a purportedly > educational program. This kind of explains my general irritation with Starkey, actually. To me, it seems as though these educational documentaries he narrates are focused on hyping history, as though the general 21st century audience would find anything that didn't deal with sex and deceit too dull. So, he plays up the salacious stuff, particularly anything sexual. I caught the last three Queens episode and the lead-in on Katherine Parr was something to the effect of "A saintly woman on the outside, but on the inside she was consumed by raging hormones." Yeah, he actually used the term "raging hormones". In the Elizabeth documentary, he spent some time discussing the "likelihood" that Elizabeth was raped by her step-father while in Katherine's custody and that was the reason she was so leery of marriage. I think that's just going a bit too far on the information we have available of Elizabeth's life at Chelsea under the care of Katherine. Anyway, that's just my take on it. And the costumes in the Six Wives were touchy. Some were rather good (Katherine Howard's pretty little brocade number) and some were just tacky (what was up with the weird pleating deal on several of those bodices???) and the hats were mostly aiming for the right look, but clearly not designed with any realistic proportions in mind. Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jul 29 20:56:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U0uMLY005329 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:56:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U0rK3O020786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:53:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U0rIX4027427; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:53:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U0r6X5027280 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:53:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6U0rrbh018805 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:54:14 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6U0rnSs018803 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:53:49 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bible comment Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:53:49 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <4EFA24C4-C20F-11D7-B425-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> In-Reply-To: <4EFA24C4-C20F-11D7-B425-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307292053.49462.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6U0r6X5027280 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 29 July 2003 05:55 pm, Sarah wrote: > > The reason I got angry at Starkey's statement is because it was a > > swipe at > > the church and a gross generalization at the same time. Either one I > > could > > brush off but not both at the same time, especially on a purportedly > > educational program. > > This kind of explains my general irritation with Starkey, actually. To > me, it seems as though these educational documentaries he narrates are > focused on hyping history, as though the general 21st century audience > would find anything that didn't deal with sex and deceit too dull. So, > he plays up the salacious stuff, particularly anything sexual. Starkey tends to annoy me, too, mostly because he's terribly opinionated and flaunts it instead of sidelining it. Although I haven't seen any of his documentaries, I'll point out in his defense that there is a fair amount in English history in the 16th century that deals with sex, and deceit--both in combination and separately. :-) That doesn't justify giving sex and deceit disproportionate roles, though. -- Cathy Raymond “No man is rich enough to buy back his past.” Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 00:47:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U4lRLY006131 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:47:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U4iQ3O013748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:44:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U4iOYH001724; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:44:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out003.verizon.net (out003pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U4iLYH001660 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:44:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [162.83.121.104] by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20030730044415.QCBN21766.out003.verizon.net@[162.83.121.104]> for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:44:15 -0500 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:41:43 -0400 From: Ron Carnegie To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Williamsburg, Folger Elizabeth I exhibit, DC In-Reply-To: <3F26D56E.9010501@faucet.net> References: <002101c355e5$e7992130$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3F26D56E.9010501@faucet.net> Message-Id: <20030730004041.77C5.R.CARNEGIE@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.05.11 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out003.verizon.net from [162.83.121.104] at Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:44:14 -0500 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO melanie> First, my thanks to all who sent information regarding the clothing melanie> exhibit at Colonial Williamsburg. I recommend it to anyone who will be melanie> in the area. It was very well-done, and there was a wealth of melanie> information for the scholar as well as clarity for the general public. melanie> The exhibit is arranged more by theme than chronologically, though there melanie> is a fairly clear chronology throughout. I spent a rather large melanie> proportion of my day at Williamsburg drooling over this exhibit. -- I am glad you enjoyed your visit. It is to bad I didn't get to meet you. :( Ron Carnegie ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 01:02:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U52BLY006188 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:02:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U4xH3O015306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:59:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U4xG5w010794; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:59:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U4xE5w010736 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:59:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A09A16DE009C; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:59:06 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A09A8810210; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:59:06 -0500 Message-ID: <003b01c35657$a9f11b40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002101c355e5$e7992130$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><3F26D56E.9010501@faucet.net> <20030730004041.77C5.R.CARNEGIE@verizon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Williamsburg, Folger Elizabeth I exhibit, DC Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:01:40 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: [1] theanswerto, see http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S1815 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, Ron and I are a little insulted.... you know, Ron and I are the state costume host and hostess of Virginia. Not a word that you were coming!!!! Ron... Sharon (Shashy) is coming to Williamsburg near the end of August. So we will have to plan a get-together. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 01:37:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U5bXLY006295 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:37:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U5YZ3O018451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:34:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U5YX5w029794; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:34:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out002.verizon.net (out002pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U5YU5w029656 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:34:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [162.83.121.104] by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20030730053425.CVIC13328.out002.verizon.net@[162.83.121.104]> for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:34:25 -0500 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:31:51 -0400 From: Ron Carnegie To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Williamsburg, Folger Elizabeth I exhibit, DC In-Reply-To: <003b01c35657$a9f11b40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> References: <20030730004041.77C5.R.CARNEGIE@verizon.net> <003b01c35657$a9f11b40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Message-Id: <20030730012801.5E35.R.CARNEGIE@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.05.11 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out002.verizon.net from [162.83.121.104] at Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:34:24 -0500 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO penny> Yes, Ron and I are a little insulted.... you know, Ron and I are the state penny> costume host and hostess of Virginia. Not a word that you were coming!!!! Well to be fair, I did know she was coming. She was having trouble deciding between CW and Jamestowne. I did want her (and anyone else one the list) to know about the Language of Costume exhibit. Of course if I had known she was going to Richmond I would have suggested the Valentine. Agecroft IS fun however! Cheers, -- Ron Carnegie ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 01:59:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U5xHLY006386 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:59:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U5tL3O020007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:55:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U5tJ9R011228; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:55:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U5tG9R011151 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:55:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ADBC1A7D0088; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:55:08 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ADBC2DE00E4; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:55:08 -0500 Message-ID: <00ef01c3565f$7e1b3520$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030728141518.1938DABDD@sitemail.everyone.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victoria gone???!! Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:57:42 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: [1] theanswerto, see http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S1815 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Phoebe, Did anyone answer your question about Victoria magazine? I love the magazine too. I hope it hasn't gone down the drain. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 02:15:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U6F7LY012057 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 02:15:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U6CA3O021366 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:12:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U6C99R020195; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:12:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U6C79R020147 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:12:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A1A8175A009C; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:11:52 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A1A82DE01E4; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:11:52 -0500 Message-ID: <011901c35661$d487ec80$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030730004041.77C5.R.CARNEGIE@verizon.net><003b01c35657$a9f11b40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <20030730012801.5E35.R.CARNEGIE@verizon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Williamsburg, Folger Elizabeth I exhibit, DC Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 02:14:26 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: [1] theanswerto, see http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S1815 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ron, I have been as far as the parking lot of Agecroft... my friend's child started throwing a temper tantrum and we decided against it. I do plan on going to Agecroft and the VA House in August when Susan comes to visit. Agecroft and the VA House were on American's Castles this past weekend. I remember when they filmed this episode. I was doing my internship at the Valentine. They also were filming the Dooley Mansion at Maymonth the same week. I love the swam bedroom and front porch in the mansion. Have you seen it Ron? Jennie Chancey is going to the CW exhibit on August 9th and invited me. Are you open that day? My personal favorite about your area is taking the ferry across the James River. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 02:16:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U6GDLY012506 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 02:16:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U6DI3O021457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:13:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U6DG9R020849; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:13:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx.suffolk.lib.ny.us (mx.suffolk.lib.ny.us [209.139.6.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U6Ca9R020412 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:12:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bchamber (sclsnet-pri-216-ppp.suffolk.lib.ny.us [209.139.108.216]) by mx.suffolk.lib.ny.us (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h6U6CWLU025190 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 02:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004901c35661$2d87d940$676c8bd1@bchamber> From: "Beth" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030728125713.CB0E23E70@sitemail.everyone.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victoria gone?????!!!!! Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 02:09:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I read about this a while ago, if I could remember where I would share the article. Essentially falling subscription rates did it in. Take a look at the first couple of issues then compare them to recent ones. The older ones had many expensive things to fall in love, mixed with things those of us on a budget could still do. The recipes called for "normal people" ingredients, places to visit were mostly domestic. I stopped subscribing a few years ago. I simply couldn't connect with it anymore. I don't vacation in Europe, I don't buy truffle oil, and I couldn't afford a thing they showed. What I really don't understand is why they didn't ask people who dropped their subscriptions why they were leaving. They let it die without the slightest battle. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "prairielark" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 8:57 AM Subject: [h-cost] Victoria gone?????!!!!! > I received a notice stating my subscription to Victoria Magazine (Hearst Publications) has been shifted to another publication as this wonderful mag has ceased publication with the June 2003 issue. How can this be? Does anyone have a clue what happened? I thought this was the greatest magazine ever printed and have each and every issue since the first quarterly one printed in the fall of 1985. Please if anyone knows what happened I would like to hear it. > > Devastated, > Phoebe > > the prairie lark > > _____________________________________________________________ > Herspace.com > [[feed your heart * fuel your art]] > http://www.herspace.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 03:10:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U7AwLY002169 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 03:10:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U7813O025301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U780rF017469; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:08:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U77trF017345 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:07:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AEC417D9009C; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 02:07:48 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AEC42030280; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 02:07:48 -0500 Message-ID: <017301c35669$a33944a0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 03:10:18 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: [1] theanswerto, see http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S1815 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Ragtime X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For anyone in the Richmond, Virginia area during the next two weekends, my son is working on the production of Ragtime at Dogwood Dell amphitheater. The show is Fri-Sun nights. The admission is free as part of the Arts in the Park series. If anyone needs directions, please feel free to write me. The Dell is near the Museum of Fine Arts on the Boulevard. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 11:52:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UFqeKq002044 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:52:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UDQl3O024582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 07:26:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UDQhYK014247; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 07:26:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UDQeYK014214 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 07:26:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (ppp-67-117-6-152.dialup.irvnca.pacbell.net [67.117.6.152]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6UDQW1g011911 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 06:26:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030728165541.00b6b070@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:00:22 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:41 PM 7/28/2003 +0000, you wrote: >I will be at C.C. but will not be attending the Gala. However, I will >have a red H on my name tag so I hope to meet you all in person. > >I am not against a little get together. Maybe one of the less busy >evenings we can meet for dinner or something??? > >Maybe we can have the cool kids lunch table where we all wear red H's and >matching bomber jackets. We can be the H-Cost Crew... > >Anyway, see you all in a couple of days!!! This is going to be so much >fun!!!!!!!!!!! > >:) jessica How about Friday night after everyone gets back from their various field trips, but before heading down to CGW's little "do"? Either that or Sunday night, although those people that are leaving on Sunday would not be able to make it. News for those coming from the Bay Area: it's cooler in LA right now than SF. Go figure. ;-D I hope it stays that way. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Temporarily in Simi Valley, CA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 11:52:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UFqeKs002044 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:52:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UCAt3O018093 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 06:10:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UCAsRe004901; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 06:10:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.primushost.com (smtp2.primushost.com [209.58.220.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UCAqRf004847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 06:10:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp2.primushost.com with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim) id 19hpqm-0006O8-TQ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:14:36 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 19hpnb-0005l9-00; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:11:19 -0400 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:11:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victoria gone?????!!!!! In-Reply-To: <3F277784.FB1D75D6@gti.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Victoria lost me a few years ago for that very reason--I loved the first few years, was a subscribed since the second issue. It had much more content then, not just pretty pictures. I remember a wonderful article on garnet jewelry, and on my "not-yet" friend John Burrows reproduction carpets. It's sad. I am looking forward to the new Vintage Fashions magazine. I wonder what it will be like. Katy On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 martyr@gti.net wrote: >Yes, the newly formatted 'Victoria' magazine was nothing at all like the >initial version. The old version was absolutely *sublime*. The photography was >always amazing & every issue was filled with neat stuff- antiques, vintage & >vintage inspired fashion & profiles of women entrepreneurs in creative fields >with a 'Victoria'-inspired focus; interior designers, textile designers- I >remember one issue featuring a modern-day bobbin lace designer, fashion >designers with a vintage aesthetic. They even published a book called "The >Business of Bliss", a compilation of the profiles featured in the magazine & >sponsored seminars for women in business based on the book. They published >other beautiful books too, such as "Designers in Residence" & "The Charms of >Tea". That was then... >When it changed format, I remember thinking it wouldn't be around much longer >because it was just nothing at all like the old version & assumed all its >devoted readers were equally as disappointed as I was with it. Definitely not >surprised subscription rates fell nor that it is ceasing publication. In my >mind, it already ended when the format changed. >R.I.P. Victoria. >Deb R. > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 11:52:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UFqeKu002044 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:52:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UCfP3O020262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 06:41:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UCfKRe018963; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 06:41:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UCfIRe018950 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 06:41:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-018scfairp0378.dialsprint.net ([63.183.177.124] helo=faucet.net) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19hqGb-0004FF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 05:41:17 -0700 Message-ID: <3F27CA3B.3020304@faucet.net> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:38:03 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Williamsburg and Richmond References: <002101c355e5$e7992130$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3F26D56E.9010501@faucet.net> <20030730004041.77C5.R.CARNEGIE@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ron Carnegie wrote: > -- I am glad you enjoyed your visit. It is to bad I didn't get to > meet you. :( Alas--perhaps next time. I wasn't sure where to look for you, and I didn't want to interfere with your work. I very well might come back to CW, as I get a discount for being an educator (and that was a very nice surprise)! Penny Ladnier wrote: > Yes, Ron and I are a little insulted.... you know, Ron and I are the > state costume host and hostess of Virginia. Not a word that you were > coming!!!! Penny, I didn't realize you were in Richmond! That's too bad. I did send mail to the list about my trip to Williamsburg. Next time I come I'll mail you personally! Ron Carnegie wrote: > Well to be fair, I did know she was coming. She was having trouble > deciding between CW and Jamestowne. I did want her (and anyone else > one the list) to know about the Language of Costume exhibit. Of > course if I had known she was going to Richmond I would have > suggested the Valentine. I wish I'd known the Valentine was there--it didn't even occur to me. From where I am, you pretty much have to go to Richmond to get to Williamsburg. Next time I get to Richmond, I'll definitely have a look. AND have lunch with Penny! Next time, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 11:58:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UFwGKq002055 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:58:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UDkV3O026620 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 07:46:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UDkUYK025109; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 07:46:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UDkPYK025071 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 07:46:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-207-100-50.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.100.50]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9011E2F938 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 06:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 06:46:23 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030728165541.00b6b070@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <352B9BCE-C294-11D7-A875-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'll print out some stickers that say H-Costume -- I recall having very little luck getting any marks to stay on those slick name tags! please look for the stickers! On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 05:00 PM, Dawn Jacobson wrote: > At 03:41 PM 7/28/2003 +0000, you wrote: > > >> I will be at C.C. but will not be attending the Gala. However, I >> will have a red H on my name tag so I hope to meet you all in person. >> >> I am not against a little get together. Maybe one of the less busy >> evenings we can meet for dinner or something??? >> >> Maybe we can have the cool kids lunch table where we all wear red H's >> and matching bomber jackets. We can be the H-Cost Crew... >> >> Anyway, see you all in a couple of days!!! This is going to be so >> much fun!!!!!!!!!!! >> >> :) jessica > > How about Friday night after everyone gets back from their various > field trips, but before heading down to CGW's little "do"? Either that > or Sunday night, although those people that are leaving on Sunday > would not be able to make it. > > News for those coming from the Bay Area: it's cooler in LA right now > than SF. Go figure. ;-D I hope it stays that way. > > Dawn > > Dawn Jacobson > Temporarily in Simi Valley, CA > > Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 12:03:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UG3TKq002083 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:03:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UFtM3O011919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:55:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UFtKDh026178; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:55:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UFtGDh026106 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:55:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030730155515.LXGR25721.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:55:15 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20030730164625.0212b548@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:51:32 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bible comment In-Reply-To: <140.1665acdf.2c5935b5@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-36141156; boundary="=======7E1D2CB5=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======7E1D2CB5======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-36141156; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 15:52 30/07/2003, you wrote: >Sorry I missed the original post. I read a novel many years ago with an >interesting take on Henry VIII's mindset--who knows if it was really true, >though. > Anyway, Katherine was his brother, Arthur's (was it?) widow. They had >married young, so the marriage was never consummated. But it would have been >considered incestuous, so Henry asked for, and got, approval from the >Pope. But, >according to this author, he became convinced that the reason Katherine >couldn't give him the male heir he wanted was the marriage was incestuous, >even with >the Pope's approval. Of course, it was mainly political, I'm sure. >But, one of history's great ironies--one of the unwanted daughters became one >of England's greatest monarchs ever. Yes, Henry was a religious man and had to persuade himself that his marriage to Katherine was wrong in the eyes of the Church. If Katherine's marriage to Arthur had been consummated, then the marriage to Henry would be considered incestuous, and (here's the rub) her children illegitimate. This seems to be the main reason Katherine fought so hard against the annulment. Henry never got approval from the Pope, not because of religious reasons, but because Katherine's nephew, the Emperor Charles, was in control of Rome at the time. Elizabeth wasn't unwanted, but she was the wrong sex. England had never had a female monarch, and in the difficult climate of the time, it wasn't the right time to try. Elizabeth was special, but that's with the advantage of hindsight. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======7E1D2CB5======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======7E1D2CB5=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 12:07:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UG6wKq002093 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:06:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UBRr3O015057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 05:27:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UBRp0X015318; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 05:27:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UBRl0X015292 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 05:27:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030730112746.IJKR9049.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:27:46 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20030730122058.021eae68@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:27:41 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bible comment In-Reply-To: <200307292053.49462.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <4EFA24C4-C20F-11D7-B425-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> <4EFA24C4-C20F-11D7-B425-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-3123298E; boundary="=======331D4CDA=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======331D4CDA======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-3123298E; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 01:53 30/07/2003, you wrote: >Starkey tends to annoy me, too, mostly because he's terribly opinionated and >flaunts it instead of sidelining it. It annoyed me that he took the age old populist view that Henry divorced Katherine and married Anne for his own venal pleasure. He did mention, in passing, the need for an heir, but if Henry had merely wanted sex, he could have had it (and did). He was an intelligent man and a statesman, believing in the new realpolitik as disseminated by Machiavelli via Thomas Cromwell and the new writing Anne encouraged him to read. He needed that heir. After a hundred years of conflict he and his father before him were just beginning to get the country on an even keel. Henry was extravagant, but there was a reason behind it as well as, probably, some personal enjoyment. England had to be seen as strong, a player, especially when the Reformation had turned Europe upside down. It was only when Katherine of Aragon reached the menopause that Henry looked elsewhere for a wife, a mother for a legitimate heir. Katherine never understood this, never accepted his offer of a nunnery for her. She had Mary to look after, but England had never had a Queen, and now, most people thought, was not the time to start. Anne Boleyn saw the opening, but the persuasion wasn't all on her side. The decision to marry Anne Boleyn was political, purely political, and populist historians who promote the cult of personality can't or won't see beyond that. Either that or they think that the stupid public can't possibly understand or care. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======331D4CDA======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======331D4CDA=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 12:18:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UGIfKq006358 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:18:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UGFe3O014628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:15:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UGFdDh013047; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:15:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UGFaDh013009 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:15:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (ppp-67-117-7-15.dialup.irvnca.pacbell.net [67.117.7.15]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6UGFW95011533 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:15:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030730090855.02ca3e90@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:13:00 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bible comment In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.14.0.20030730164625.0212b548@pop.ntlworld.com> References: <140.1665acdf.2c5935b5@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:51 PM 7/30/2003 +0100, Lynne Connelly wrote: >Elizabeth wasn't unwanted, but she was the wrong sex. England had never >had a female monarch, and in the difficult climate of the time, it wasn't >the right time to try. Elizabeth was special, but that's with the >advantage of hindsight. Salic Law excludes women from inheriting a throne. This was the reason that the Empress Maud (aka Queen Matilda) was passed over in favor of King Stephen. BTW, Maud was the first queen of England, but she was on the throne for a very short time, and there was a civil war going on during her entire reign. This was undoubtedly the reason why there was little interest in having a daughter declared the heir--very few people in the 16th century had a good opinion of Maud. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 12:18:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UGIfKq006359 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:18:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U9Fp3O003869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 03:15:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U9Flek017354; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 03:15:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U9Fgek016475 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 03:15:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h6U9Fep10108.; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:15:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:15:40 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:15:08 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Tyndale Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the elucidation, Gail. I see where you are coming from now. David Starkey is well known in the UK for being deliberately contentious. > You have to remember that religious and secular governments overlapped >for much of the middle ages, part of which caused the Reformation in the >first place. Nearly every issue theology had a political ramification -- there >was no separation of church and state. Not just in the Middle Ages, but well into the 17th century too. As I mentioned in an earlier post, newly literate people's reading of the Bible did indeed lead to all sorts of religious/political movements, especially at the time of our Civil Wars, some of which eventually settled down into the mainstream Nonconformist churches we have today. (Before someone picks me up on that, yes, I know Methodism was a later development.) I get just as annoyed when people make inaccurate generalisations about the early 17th century situation. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 12:28:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UGSfKq006399 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:28:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U7jQ3O027859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:45:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6U7jPrF004599; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:45:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from emailantivirus (eav.gti.net [206.67.179.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6U7jMrF004575 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:45:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apollo.gti.net ([199.171.27.7]) by emailantivirus with InterScan Messaging Security Suite; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 03:46:21 -0400 Received: from gti.net (applegate.gti.net [208.216.122.96]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id 6BAE5355E6 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 03:45:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F277784.FB1D75D6@gti.net> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 03:45:09 -0400 From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victoria gone?????!!!!! References: <20030728125713.CB0E23E70@sitemail.everyone.net> <004901c35661$2d87d940$676c8bd1@bchamber> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, the newly formatted 'Victoria' magazine was nothing at all like the initial version. The old version was absolutely *sublime*. The photography was always amazing & every issue was filled with neat stuff- antiques, vintage & vintage inspired fashion & profiles of women entrepreneurs in creative fields with a 'Victoria'-inspired focus; interior designers, textile designers- I remember one issue featuring a modern-day bobbin lace designer, fashion designers with a vintage aesthetic. They even published a book called "The Business of Bliss", a compilation of the profiles featured in the magazine & sponsored seminars for women in business based on the book. They published other beautiful books too, such as "Designers in Residence" & "The Charms of Tea". That was then... When it changed format, I remember thinking it wouldn't be around much longer because it was just nothing at all like the old version & assumed all its devoted readers were equally as disappointed as I was with it. Definitely not surprised subscription rates fell nor that it is ceasing publication. In my mind, it already ended when the format changed. R.I.P. Victoria. Deb R. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 12:30:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UGUkKq006409 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:30:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UEqr3O003907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:52:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UEqq5M007285; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:52:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UEqo5M007212 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:52:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.140.1665acdf (4568) for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:52:37 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <140.1665acdf.2c5935b5@aol.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:52:37 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bible comment To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 7/30/2003 7:28:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com writes: > It was only when Katherine of Aragon reached the menopause that Henry > looked elsewhere for a wife, a mother for a legitimate heir. Katherine > never understood this, never accepted his offer of a nunnery for her. Sorry I missed the original post. I read a novel many years ago with an interesting take on Henry VIII's mindset--who knows if it was really true, though. Anyway, Katherine was his brother, Arthur's (was it?) widow. They had married young, so the marriage was never consummated. But it would have been considered incestuous, so Henry asked for, and got, approval from the Pope. But, according to this author, he became convinced that the reason Katherine couldn't give him the male heir he wanted was the marriage was incestuous, even with the Pope's approval. Of course, it was mainly political, I'm sure. But, one of history's great ironies--one of the unwanted daughters became one of England's greatest monarchs ever. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 12:30:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UGUkKs006409 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:30:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UEQ13O000817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UEQ05M019088; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UEPv5M019042 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:25:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h6UEPup06451.; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:25:56 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:25:56 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:25:35 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] UK event Stoneleigh, Aug. 9-10 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Any UK members going to Stoneleigh, English Heritage's replacement for Kirby Hall? Our music group are not attending as there will be no indoor venue, but I shall be there as a member of the Sealed Knot Living History Group. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 12:30:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UGUkKu006409 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:30:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UEg63O002673 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:42:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UEg35M029478; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UEg05M029447 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:42:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (ppp-67-117-7-15.dialup.irvnca.pacbell.net [67.117.7.15])h6UEfdvv009927 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:41:57 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030730073158.00bcb650@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 07:39:06 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 456 In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.2.20030729114715.00a04ec0@pop3.lfchosting.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20030729114715.00a04ec0@pop3.lfchosting.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:27 PM 7/29/2003 -0700, Lynn D wrote: >I've already packed a red sharpie and anyone who sees my red h and wants >to borrow it is welcome to. > >LynnD >Can't wait, can't wait, can't wait. We're going to LACMA and FIDM and the >Getty, oh and shopping too! Cal Millinery, here we come! Cal Millinery was a disappointment the last time I was there (in April); they aren't carrying the really large hat boxes any more, and didn't have any felt hat blanks. I still managed to get buckram, millinery wire, and hat lacquer though. For everybody that is coming the Costume College: If you have time and like French paintings, get yourself over the LACMA for the "French Masterworks" exhibition. They currently have 50-60 paintings from the Pushkin Museum on display ranging from a 1630 painting by Nicholas Poussin to 3 paintings by Matisse from 1912-14. I went yesterday--it's worth the time and trouble as they are all major-league paintings and this is their last exhibition before being returned to the Pushkin. Prices for adults are $17 during the week and $20 on the weekend, and include entry into the other parts of the museum. Also, all the textile and costume books are now in the little bookshop in the Ahmanson Building, right inside the door. I'm going to try to squeeze in a visit to the Getty next week, to look at (IIRC) a Beuckelaer they have in their collection. And, of course, a trip to the Garment District--I need more linen. ;-) Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 12:37:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UGbNKq006452 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:37:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UGYL3O017589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:34:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UGYKDh028998; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:34:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UGYIDh028876 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:34:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MaddNancy@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.2f.3d054fda (4254) for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:34:08 -0400 (EDT) From: MaddNancy@aol.com Message-ID: <2f.3d054fda.2c594d80@aol.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:34:08 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 464 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn Jacobson wrote: > Salic Law excludes women from inheriting a throne. But according to Henry V, this law only applies to France, not England! I saw the Starkey show and disliked him rather intensely just in the first few minutes. He sounded like a tabloid journalist hyping everything. My 2 cents... Nancy Stengel Ulmer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 13:05:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UH5qKq007002 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:05:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UH2L3O021970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:02:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UH2IBv022727; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:02:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.nameserver.tv (mail.nameserver.tv [209.144.109.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UH2BBv022555 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:02:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from TEENALAPTOP ([206.148.40.204]) by mail.nameserver.tv (Merak 5.8.6) with SMTP id ABG74101 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:01:07 -0700 Message-ID: <007a01c356bb$a49c36c0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <140.1665acdf.2c5935b5@aol.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030730090855.02ca3e90@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bible comment Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:57:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn Jacobson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bible comment > Salic Law excludes women from inheriting a throne. This was the reason that > the Empress Maud (aka Queen Matilda) was passed over in favor of King > Stephen. BTW, Maud was the first queen of England, but she was on the > throne for a very short time, and there was a civil war going on during her > entire reign. This was undoubtedly the reason why there was little interest > in having a daughter declared the heir--very few people in the 16th century > had a good opinion of Maud. > > Dawn > I don't think the Salic Law was in the mind of Henry VIII at all. The Salic Law came from Clovis and was a list of many laws regarding behavior (murder etc). The part you mentioned was concerned with inheriting money and property (wehrgeld) not thrones or offices. The laws were reformulated under Charlemagne in the 9th century but were all but forgotten by the 13th century because they had become part of the common laws. The law was used with regard to the throne by the French in 1316 when the brother of the king wished to take the throne rather than have it be given to his 6 year old niece. There is no evidence that he attained the crown due to the Salic Law rather than the desire to have a grown man on the throne rather than a 6 year old child. This law only seems to be invoked for convenience such as when a foreign woman is in the succession or when the power structure of the day wishes someone else to rule. The law isn't used in many cases when women have inherited fiefs such as a duchy as mentioned in the Treaty of Guerande which was inherited by a woman. I believe France is the only country to use the Salic Law with reference to the throne until the 18th century. I have heard that the Salic Law was invoked with regard to Matilda. However, she did come to rule which seems to contradict that. She was extremely unpopular with the people and the nobles as was her husband. Stephen beat her in battle and came to the throne. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 13:25:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UHPLKq007052 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:25:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UFD63O006466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:13:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UFD5ka022353; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:13:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41510.mail.yahoo.com (web41510.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6UFD3ka022276 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:13:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030730151257.17193.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:12:57 BST Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:12:57 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK event Stoneleigh, Aug. 9-10 To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Kate M Bunting wrote: > Any UK members going to Stoneleigh, English Heritage's replacement for > Kirby Hall? Our music group are not attending as there will be no indoor > venue, but I shall be there as a member of the Sealed Knot Living > History Group. Ptooiee! No way! Sorry to have to say this, but I would not for the life of me work for English Heritage again after this appalling treatment at last year's Kirby, where it became clear they apparently don't give a doodah about the hard working re-enactors. Actually, we are going this weekend to the Midlands show (Military Odyssey in Lichfield, so to speak) Real shame though that we won't meet again, Kate! Nicole ===== Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 13:25:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UHPLKs007052 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:25:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UFAC3O006146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:10:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UFAAka020264; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:10:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UFA7ka020209 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:10:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h6UFA6p10205.; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:10:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:10:06 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:09:35 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII, was Re: bible comment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, that was the official reason for the ending of the marriage (usually termed a divorce, but surely an annulment, i.e. it was declared never to have been valid?). Whether the marriage with Prince Arthur had in fact been consummated is a matter for speculation; he was a sickly boy. >>>Sorry I missed the original post. I read a novel many years ago with an >interesting take on Henry VIII's mindset--who knows if it was really true, >though. > Anyway, Katherine was his brother, Arthur's (was it?) widow. They had >married young, so the marriage was never consummated. But it would >have been >considered incestuous, so Henry asked for, and got, approval from the >Pope. But, >according to this author, he became convinced that the reason Katherine >couldn't give him the male heir he wanted was the marriage was >incestuous, even with >the Pope's approval. Of course, it was mainly political, I'm sure. >But, one of history's great ironies--one of the unwanted daughters became >one of England's greatest monarchs ever. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 13:25:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UHPLKu007052 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:25:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UEwL3O004466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:58:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UEwJka010928; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:58:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UEwHka010866 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:58:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=SG01) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19hsPA-0001Dq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 07:58:16 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 07:58:18 -0700 Message-ID: <002401c356ab$03003f10$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Anyone near Pasadena, CA? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was reading Dawn's note about her trip to the Getty, and started to wonder if any of you was near Pasadena. The Norton Simon Foundation has a "Portrait of an unknown Lady" by Marcus Gheerhaerts the younger which I would love to get a color picture of. The Foundation will send me a slide for $100, and I don't know if they allow any photography, but thought I might ask.... Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 13:25:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UHPbKq007068 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:25:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UHMJ3O024485 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:22:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UHMGBv009313; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:22:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UHMCBv009234 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:22:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) MAA12172 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:22:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <000601c356bf$371d1160$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII, was Re: bible comment Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:22:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, there was no contemporary evidence for Arthur being sickly(read Starkey's "Six Wives" for a fuller background)and that his death was a total shock to the royal family. Neither was Henry VIII's illegitimate son, the Duke of Richmond, or Edward VI. When Henry VIII wanted his divorce, the question was if Arthur had been mature enough to consumate the marriage with Katherine. Arthur's illness was sudden, suprising, and certainly explains in great part why Henry VII practically kept the younger Henry under lock and key until the later's death. Arthur, not Henry, was Henry VII's pride and joy; perhaps he saw too much of Edward IV in his younger son. Cindy Abel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII, was Re: bible comment > Yes, that was the official reason for the ending of the marriage > (usually termed a divorce, but surely an annulment, i.e. it was declared > never to have been valid?). Whether the marriage with Prince Arthur had > in fact been consummated is a matter for speculation; he was a sickly > boy. > > >>>Sorry I missed the original post. I read a novel many years ago > with an > >interesting take on Henry VIII's mindset--who knows if it was really > true, >though. > > Anyway, Katherine was his brother, Arthur's (was it?) widow. They > had > >married young, so the marriage was never consummated. But it would > >have been > >considered incestuous, so Henry asked for, and got, approval from the > >Pope. But, > >according to this author, he became convinced that the reason > Katherine > >couldn't give him the male heir he wanted was the marriage was > >incestuous, even with > >the Pope's approval. Of course, it was mainly political, I'm sure. > >But, one of history's great ironies--one of the unwanted daughters > became >one of England's greatest monarchs ever. > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email > Security System. For more information on a proactive email security > service working around the clock, around the globe, visit > http://www.messagelabs.com > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 13:39:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UHdIKq007138 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:39:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UHaI3O026884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:36:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UHaHBv022738; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:36:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UHaEBv022692 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:36:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030730173613.SVVZ25721.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:36:13 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20030730181922.021aa7e8@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:35:35 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bible comment In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030730090855.02ca3e90@pop.mail.yahoo.com> References: <6.0.0.14.0.20030730164625.0212b548@pop.ntlworld.com> <140.1665acdf.2c5935b5@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-590C4E3F; boundary="=======3B9CF0=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======3B9CF0======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-590C4E3F; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 17:13 30/07/2003, you wrote: >Salic Law excludes women from inheriting a throne. Salic Law has never prevailed in England. While it is the basis of the later claim of the English monarchs to the French throne, it has never applied to the English succession. (Primogeniture is different). Salic Law was adopted by Charlemagne, but fell out of use and was only re-adopted by the French monarchy when it became expedient, in the fourteenth century. Also, salic law is the reason why Queen Victoria never became Elector of Hanover; but it didn't stop her becoming Queen of Great Britain. >This was the reason that the Empress Maud (aka Queen Matilda) was passed >over in favor of King Stephen. > BTW, Maud was the first queen of England, but she was on the throne for > a very short time, and there was a civil war going on during her entire > reign. This was undoubtedly the reason why there was little interest in > having a daughter declared the heir--very few people in the 16th century > had a good opinion of Maud. Matilda, or Maud, was never queen of England, although she should have been by right of descent. Stephen claimed the throne through female descent (his mother was William the Conqueror's daughter), and Maud's claim was superior, being the daughter of Henry I. However, Stephen prevailed mainly through force of arms. After his death Maud's son succeeded as Henry II. But the first ruling monarch who was female is Mary Tudor. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======3B9CF0======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======3B9CF0=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 14:11:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UIBg5f001969 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:11:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UI7c3O001280 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:07:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UI7aJG017076; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:07:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UI7XJG017027 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:07:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.94] (pm7-094.eos.net [205.133.149.94] (may be forged)) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28374 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:07:31 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:01:15 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200307301615.h6UGFtDi013262@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Henry VIII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And don't forget, Catherine of Aragon was the daugher of Frederick and Isabella of Spain. She wasn't a little nobody! Divorcing her (and since he couldn't get an annulment -- in part because the Pope needed the staunchly Catholic Spanish monarchy -- it had to be a divorce) was a risky political move, but he really did need that boy heir. Or thought he did! Whether he really convinced himself that the marriage was wrong is anyone's guess. He was a very religious man, and could have convinced himself that the lack of a male heir was a sign from God that the marriage was invalid. A treatise he supposedly wrote (Thomas Moore might have actually done the deed) led the Pope to call him "Defender of the Faith," a title he ironically kept after he broke away and started his own church. The royalty of England still use the title today. I've heard that Prince Charles wants to change it to "Defender of Faith" -- very politically correct, I'm sure, but Henry must be rolling in his grave! But then, I'm sure Henry wouldn't recognize the Anglican church today as the church he led, either. It's changed a lot. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 14:17:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UIHX5f002289 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:17:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UIEU3O002053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:14:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UIESJG022732; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:14:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UIEQJG022701 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:14:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) NAA27531 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:14:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <000f01c356c6$823c2940$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.0.0.14.0.20030730164625.0212b548@pop.ntlworld.com> <140.1665acdf.2c5935b5@aol.com> <6.0.0.14.0.20030730181922.021aa7e8@pop.ntlworld.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:15:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] Henry VIII and the succession X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Henry VIII certainly can't be blamed for wanting a male, and not a female successor, in view of prior English history. There had been enough problems with some of the kings. Also having a female successor meant the danger of England possibly becoming a vassal state of another country, like France or Spain. I believe this was the real fight that was going on with the "King's Great Matter". You could also say the whole heir bit and Henry's image, certainly influenced his later fashion. Henry had a valid point: just why were other kings allowed by the Church to have marriages annulled and to take other wives in search of that all-important male successor? He had married his little sister Mary Rose off to Francois I's predecessor, certainly in hopes of old Louis living long enough to father a male heir and England getting France permanently that way. Queen Katherine, on the other hand, with the example of her mother, Isabella of Castile, certainly saw no problem with her only child Mary as ruler of dinky little England. Educated throughly, married to the right guy(preferably to someone on her side of the family, aka Spain), she saw Mary as certainly capable of ruling England. Mary's eventual succession, marriage to Philip II, and if she had had a child, England's history would have been quite different Cindy Abel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynne Connolly" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 12:35 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bible comment > At 17:13 30/07/2003, you wrote: > >Salic Law excludes women from inheriting a throne. > > Salic Law has never prevailed in England. While it is the basis of the > later claim of the English monarchs to the French throne, it has never > applied to the English succession. (Primogeniture is different). Salic Law > was adopted by Charlemagne, but fell out of use and was only re-adopted by > the French monarchy when it became expedient, in the fourteenth century. > Also, salic law is the reason why Queen Victoria never became Elector of > Hanover; but it didn't stop her becoming Queen of Great Britain. > > >This was the reason that the Empress Maud (aka Queen Matilda) was passed > >over in favor of King Stephen. > > BTW, Maud was the first queen of England, but she was on the throne for > > a very short time, and there was a civil war going on during her entire > > reign. This was undoubtedly the reason why there was little interest in > > having a daughter declared the heir--very few people in the 16th century > > had a good opinion of Maud. > > Matilda, or Maud, was never queen of England, although she should have been > by right of descent. Stephen claimed the throne through female descent (his > mother was William the Conqueror's daughter), and Maud's claim was > superior, being the daughter of Henry I. However, Stephen prevailed mainly > through force of arms. After his death Maud's son succeeded as Henry II. > But the first ruling monarch who was female is Mary Tudor. > > > Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT > Award winning Historical Romance author. > The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. > YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE > VANESSA from Awe-Struck books > http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 15:19:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UJJJ5f002632 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:19:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UJGC3O010125 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:16:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UJG86v013518; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:16:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UJG46v013437 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:16:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4D5636AB1 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:16:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19hwQb-0003OI-00 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:16:01 -0400 To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030730073158.00bcb650@pop.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20030729114715.00a04ec0@pop3.lfchosting.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20030729114715.00a04ec0@pop3.lfchosting.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030730073158.00bcb650@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:16:01 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Subject: [h-cost] French Masterworks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn wrote: > For everybody that is coming the Costume College: If you have time and like > French paintings, get yourself over the LACMA for the "French Masterworks" > exhibition. They currently have 50-60 paintings from the Pushkin Museum on > display ranging from a 1630 painting by Nicholas Poussin to 3 paintings by > Matisse from 1912-14. I went yesterday--it's worth the time and trouble as > they are all major-league paintings and this is their last exhibition > before being returned to the Pushkin. Prices for adults are $17 during the > week and $20 on the weekend, and include entry into the other parts of the > museum. Also, all the textile and costume books are now in the little > bookshop in the Ahmanson Building, right inside the door. There's one in town here (Ottawa, Ontario, Canada) that's all 18th century French artists. It's entitled "Watteau, Chardin, Fragonard". I'm fully intending to get there sometime before it closes, but I had better get my act in gear I guess, if I want to see all those beautiful sack-back gowns :) K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 15:21:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UJLT5f002638 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:21:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UJIL3O010389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:18:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UJIK6v015136; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:18:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UJIG6v015057 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:18:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01D3D369A3 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:18:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19hwSj-0003OS-00 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:18:13 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bible comment In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.14.0.20030730164625.0212b548@pop.ntlworld.com> References: <140.1665acdf.2c5935b5@aol.com> <6.0.0.14.0.20030730164625.0212b548@pop.ntlworld.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:18:13 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lynne wrote: > Elizabeth wasn't unwanted, but she was the wrong sex. England had never had > a female monarch, and in the difficult climate of the time, it wasn't the > right time to try. Elizabeth was special, but that's with the advantage of > hindsight. Hrm, you're not counting Matilda as a queen, I guess? Nor Boadicaea? ;) K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 16:30:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UKUd5f003108 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:30:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UKRE3O019691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:27:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UKRBTS018279; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:27:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6UKR4TS018107 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:27:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Olgh5wQokfUMaXH8UNribAQ=">; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:26:03 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H6C5ADXJ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:26:03 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:20:52 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 464 Message-ID: <20030730.132505.1776.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,5-29 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yup. England wasn't under Salic Law at the time of the Tudors. Or before, either. And I totally agree with you re: Starkey. Waaaay too full of his personal biases, and pompous enough to state them as fact. (Um, David, there's this thing most historians use called "evidence"....) Arlys, mundanely an MA in history On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:34:08 EDT MaddNancy@aol.com writes: > Dawn Jacobson wrote: > > > Salic Law excludes women from inheriting a throne. > > But according to Henry V, this law only applies to France, not > England! > > I saw the Starkey show and disliked him rather intensely just in the > first > few minutes. He sounded like a tabloid journalist hyping > everything. > > My 2 cents... > > Nancy Stengel Ulmer > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 16:36:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UKaN5f003163 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:36:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UKXE3O020530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:33:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UKXCTS023268; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:33:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UKWlTS022823 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:32:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030730203246.OCZL1286.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:32:46 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20030730212916.021d0448@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:30:08 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bible comment In-Reply-To: References: <6.0.0.14.0.20030730164625.0212b548@pop.ntlworld.com> <140.1665acdf.2c5935b5@aol.com> <6.0.0.14.0.20030730164625.0212b548@pop.ntlworld.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-33E75EDD; boundary="=======55016156=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======55016156======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-33E75EDD; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 20:18 30/07/2003, you wrote: >Hrm, you're not counting Matilda as a queen, I guess? Nor Boadicaea? Matilda was never Queen, and Boadicea was a queen consort, and only of the Iceni, a tribe in East Anglia. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======55016156======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======55016156=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 16:36:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UKab5f003172 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:36:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UKWp3O020463 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:32:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UKWmTS022857; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:32:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UKWiTS022787 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:32:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030730203243.OCXD1286.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:32:43 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20030730212646.021c52a8@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:28:00 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Henry VIII In-Reply-To: References: <200307301615.h6UGFtDi013262@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-33E75EDD; boundary="=======4F176FEB=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======4F176FEB======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-33E75EDD; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 19:01 30/07/2003, you wrote: >But then, I'm sure Henry wouldn't recognize the Anglican church today as the >church he led, either. It's changed a lot. Henry was never an Anglican. He never left the Catholic church. He just denied the authority of the Pope (just!) Only during the reign of his son, Edward VI, was England declared a Protestant nation, and that didn't last long! Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======4F176FEB======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======4F176FEB=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 16:52:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UKq85f003359 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:52:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UKn63O023154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:49:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UKn47d006696; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:49:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UKn27d006605 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:49:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip226.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.226]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A08746DC78 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:48:58 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:49:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII, was Re: bible comment Message-ID: <3F27CCCD.30998.32ED52CF@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000601c356bf$371d1160$55c98693@creighton.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Actually, there was no contemporary evidence for Arthur being > sickly(read Starkey's "Six Wives" for a fuller background)and that his > death was a total shock to the royal family. Neither was Henry VIII's > illegitimate son, the Duke of Richmond, or Edward VI. Actually, there is evidence that both Edward VI and the D of Richmond were sick toward the ends of their lives. Edward had a case of measles which lead to consumption. (Which was a common problem up until the treatment of TB changed to using antibiotics.) The Duke of Richmond also probably had TB. He certainly looked ill in the portrait done of him. Arthur was pretty healthy until he took sick at the end. When Henry VIII > wanted his divorce, the question was if Arthur had been mature enough > to consumate the marriage with Katherine. Arthur's illness was > sudden, suprising, and certainly explains in great part why Henry VII > practically kept the younger Henry under lock and key until the > later's death. Arthur, not Henry, was Henry VII's pride and joy; > perhaps he saw too much of Edward IV in his younger son. Henry VIII prior to becoming the crown prince was a very studious boy who was destined for the church. He wasn't trotted out because he wasn't needed. Even after he became king he studied theology (long before Katherine went through menopause). And it continued until his death. That's one of the reasons why (before the divorce issue ever came up) the pope gave him religious awards. (Defensor something, but I can't recall the precise name of the honor.) Frankly, I like Starkey. Unlike many other historians, he supports each "pronouncement" with solid evidence (documents of the time) from the time period, rather than depending on the interpretation from someone writing well after the time period. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 17:36:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ULa95f003820 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:36:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ULWm3O029044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:32:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ULWjAu011031; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:32:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ULWhAu010924 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:32:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from VALINOR ([65.50.96.88]) by fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.comESMTP <20030730213237.ITDY468637.fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@VALINOR> for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:32:37 -0400 Message-ID: <033801c356e2$152eeba0$6401a8c0@VALINOR> From: "Herself-the-Elf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <140.1665acdf.2c5935b5@aol.com><6.0.0.14.0.20030730164625.0212b548@pop.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bible comment Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:32:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [65.50.96.88] using ID at Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:32:36 -0400 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think they mean there were no queens in the line of succession of English monarchs up to that point....Boadicea was much earlier and was just queen of a Celtic tribe, not queen of England. Don't know anyting on Matilda so can't offer comments. -- Sarcasm-hime ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirrily Robert" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bible comment > Lynne wrote: > > Elizabeth wasn't unwanted, but she was the wrong sex. England had never had > > a female monarch, and in the difficult climate of the time, it wasn't the > > right time to try. Elizabeth was special, but that's with the advantage of > > hindsight. > > Hrm, you're not counting Matilda as a queen, I guess? Nor Boadicaea? > > ;) > > K. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 18:55:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UMtJ5f003923 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:55:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UMqO3O009294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:52:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UMqM2s013535; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:52:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.traknet.com ([64.9.82.131]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UMqH2s013489 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:52:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WorkingGirl ([64.9.82.165]) by mail.traknet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-58579U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:04:31 -0400 From: "Margaret Baird " To: Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:52:14 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c356ed$38c972f0$a5520940@WorkingGirl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200307301801.h6UI13JI011892@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] OT: Michael Blackerby X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry to post this to the list but Michael Blackerby are you back and ready for your ribbon? Margaret Baird _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 19:55:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UNtE5f003968 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:55:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UNqE3O015529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:52:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UNqDfa021187; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:52:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UNq1fb021070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:52:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6UNq1bh022598 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:52:12 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6UNptCd022595 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:51:55 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII, was Re: bible comment Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:51:54 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3F27CCCD.30998.32ED52CF@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3F27CCCD.30998.32ED52CF@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307301951.54675.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6UNq1fb021070 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 30 July 2003 04:49 pm, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > Actually, there was no contemporary evidence for Arthur being > > sickly(read Starkey's "Six Wives" for a fuller background)and that his > > death was a total shock to the royal family. Neither was Henry VIII's > > illegitimate son, the Duke of Richmond, or Edward VI. > > Actually, there is evidence that both Edward VI and the D of Richmond > were sick toward the ends of their lives. Edward had a case of > measles which lead to consumption. (Which was a common problem up > until the treatment of TB changed to using antibiotics.) Interesting. I never heard that particular theory before. I had heard other theories--including the theory that Somerset was poisoning him. > The Duke of > Richmond also probably had TB. He certainly looked ill in the > portrait done of him. Arthur was pretty healthy until he took sick at > the end. Things like sudden fevers did kill apparently healthy folk. There was a disease, referred to only as the "sweating sickness", which Henry dreaded above all things. So far as I know, there is no commonly acceptable hypothesis as to what it really was. > > When Henry VIII > > wanted his divorce, the question was if Arthur had been mature enough > > to consumate the marriage with Katherine. Arthur's illness was > > sudden, suprising, and certainly explains in great part why Henry VII > > practically kept the younger Henry under lock and key until the > > later's death. Arthur, not Henry, was Henry VII's pride and joy; > > perhaps he saw too much of Edward IV in his younger son. That's my recollection too. Arthur was 15 when they married him to Katherine; age alone is no reason to assume the marriage wasn't consummated. But Katherine always denied it, and there was no contrary proof. > Henry VIII prior to becoming the crown prince was a very studious boy > who was destined for the church. He wasn't trotted out because he > wasn't needed. Even after he became king he studied theology (long > before Katherine went through menopause). And it continued until his > death. That's one of the reasons why (before the divorce issue ever > came up) the pope gave him religious awards. (Defensor something, but > I can't recall the precise name of the honor.) Defender of the Faith. He got the title, ironically, because he wrote a theological tome refuting one of the German protestant divines (I don't recall all the details). He was ridiculously proud of the distinction. Once, long ago, I read everything I could find about Henry VIII and his reign.... -- Cathy Raymond “No man is rich enough to buy back his past.” Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 21:38:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V1cC5f004297 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:38:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V1X43O025573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:33:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V1X2An018229; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:33:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V1WsAo018138 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:32:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6V1XGbh022759 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:33:17 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6V1XF2S022756 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:33:15 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bible comment Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:33:15 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <4EFA24C4-C20F-11D7-B425-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> <6.0.0.14.0.20030730122058.021eae68@pop.ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.14.0.20030730122058.021eae68@pop.ntlworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307302133.15313.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h6V1WsAo018138 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 30 July 2003 07:27 am, Lynne Connolly wrote: [snip] > The decision to marry Anne Boleyn was political, purely political, and > populist historians who promote the cult of personality can't or won't see > beyond that. Either that or they think that the stupid public can't > possibly understand or care. I think you're ignoring one very important fact. Henry needed an heir, but he didn't specifically need an heir from Anne Boleyn. His decision to divorce Katherine was purely political, surely, but his decision to marry Anne specifically, and not take a bride who could give him advantages other than a male heir certainly had other motives as well. -- Cathy Raymond “No man is rich enough to buy back his past.” Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 22:05:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V25A5f004363 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:05:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V22B3O028581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:02:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V229OS004006; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:02:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V226OS003960 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:02:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A89626370070; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:01:58 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A89641600E4; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:01:58 -0500 Message-ID: <009801c35708$154c9080$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002101c355e5$e7992130$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><3F26D56E.9010501@faucet.net> <20030730004041.77C5.R.CARNEGIE@verizon.net> <3F27CA3B.3020304@faucet.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Williamsburg and Richmond Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:04:31 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: [1] theanswerto, see http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S1815 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Melanie, When you were at Agecroft you were 15 mins. from my house. The mansion where the balls were held was just down the road from Agecroft. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 23:04:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V34n5f004470 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:04:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V2iK3O002652 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:44:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V2iIOS028522; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:44:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V2iGOS028504 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:44:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-022scfairp0401.dialsprint.net ([65.179.33.147] helo=faucet.net) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19i3QO-0005tC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:44:16 -0700 Message-ID: <3F288FCC.7040405@faucet.net> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:41:00 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Williamsburg and Richmond References: <002101c355e5$e7992130$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><3F26D56E.9010501@faucet.net> <20030730004041.77C5.R.CARNEGIE@verizon.net> <3F27CA3B.3020304@faucet.net> <009801c35708$154c9080$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny Ladnier wrote: > Melanie, > > When you were at Agecroft you were 15 mins. from my house. The mansion > where the balls were held was just down the road from Agecroft. Well, drat! Next time I'll know. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 23:05:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V35r5f004474 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:05:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V2qU3O003465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:52:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V2qTOS003472; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:52:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V2qQOS003453 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:52:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-022scfairp0401.dialsprint.net ([65.179.33.147] helo=faucet.net) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19i3YH-0001wO-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:52:26 -0700 Message-ID: <3F2891B5.5040408@faucet.net> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:49:09 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for black silk cord References: <3F1D724B.7090202@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Deredere Galbraith wrote: > But there are three thickneses of silk cord used, 1mm, 1.5mm and 6mm > and I don't have a clue where to get it. I've been using a black silk twisted cord called Trebizond which I really like. It's 1mm, and I don't know that they make any other sizes. I also don't know where to tell you to get it in Europe, but you can order it from several American companies online. I use Rising River Thread Express and have always been very happy with their service. http://threadexpress.com/ I too had a hard time finding black silk cord--not sure where you'll find the larger sizes. There are however gadgets that you can get for twisting your own cord (as opposed to using turned tubing). I've not used them, but I'm sure someone here could tell you about them. All the best, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jul 30 23:47:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V3lh5f004555 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:47:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V3im3O007866 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:44:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V3iku5001708; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:44:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V3ihu5001650 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:44:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ACEF1A17009A; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:28:47 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ACEF35B014A; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:28:47 -0500 Message-ID: <013501c35714$35b93b00$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002101c355e5$e7992130$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><3F26D56E.9010501@faucet.net><20030730004041.77C5.R.CARNEGIE@verizon.net> <3F27CA3B.3020304@faucet.net><009801c35708$154c9080$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <3F288FCC.7040405@faucet.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Williamsburg and Richmond Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:31:20 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: [1] theanswerto, see http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S1815 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just let me know when you are coming into town. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Schuessler" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 11:41 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Williamsburg and Richmond > Penny Ladnier wrote: > > Melanie, > > > > When you were at Agecroft you were 15 mins. from my house. The mansion > > where the balls were held was just down the road from Agecroft. > > Well, drat! Next time I'll know. > > Melanie Schuessler > http://www.faucet.net/costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 00:58:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V4wB5f004774 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:58:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V4tH3O014877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:55:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V4tEUw008252; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:55:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V4t7Uw008120 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:55:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A12326FD0070; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:54:59 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A123192009A; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:54:59 -0500 Message-ID: <018301c35720$3f3c6b00$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:57:30 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: [1] theanswerto, see http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S1815 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Lion King Tickets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone know of a cheaper way to get tickets to The Lion King on Broadway? The tickets through the box office for the Orchestra area are $100. You can't do the mid-day rush for cheaper tickets for this show except for Standing Room Only. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 00:59:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V4xn5f004779 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:59:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V4ur3O015129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:56:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V4uqUw009250; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:56:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V4unUw009177 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:56:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m218.in-tch.com [216.166.191.218]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6V4bIL12632 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:37:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F28A1FC.728844E9@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:58:36 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK event Stoneleigh, Aug. 9-10 References: <20030730151257.17193.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kirby? Was that the one swimming in mud? If it's raining up your way, we could sure use some of it over here.....No precip. for I-dunno-how-long, plus abnormally high temps and very low humidity. --sue (thinking that this summer has actually got her looking forward to winter....;-) N Kipar wrote: > > --- Kate M Bunting wrote: > Any UK members going to > Stoneleigh, English Heritage's replacement for > > Kirby Hall? Our music group are not attending as there will be no indoor > > venue, but I shall be there as a member of the Sealed Knot Living > > History Group. > > Ptooiee! No way! > > Sorry to have to say this, but I would not for the life of me work for English > Heritage again after this appalling treatment at last year's Kirby, where it > became clear they apparently don't give a doodah about the hard working > re-enactors. > > Actually, we are going this weekend to the Midlands show (Military Odyssey in > Lichfield, so to speak) > > Real shame though that we won't meet again, Kate! > > Nicole > > ===== > Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever. ~ Old Norse Aphorism > > Email: nicole@kipar.org > URL: http://www.kipar.org > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 03:10:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V7A55f032054 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 03:10:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V7733O025527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 01:07:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V771op011503; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 01:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V76xop011486 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 01:06:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (ppp-67-117-4-150.dialup.irvnca.pacbell.net [67.117.4.150]) h6V76rFJ011448 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:06:56 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030730235025.00b30f40@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:04:21 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bible comment In-Reply-To: <007a01c356bb$a49c36c0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> References: <140.1665acdf.2c5935b5@aol.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030730090855.02ca3e90@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:57 PM 7/30/2003 -0400, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dawn Jacobson" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 12:13 PM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bible comment > > > > Salic Law excludes women from inheriting a throne. This was the reason >that > > the Empress Maud (aka Queen Matilda) was passed over in favor of King > > Stephen. BTW, Maud was the first queen of England, but she was on the > > throne for a very short time, and there was a civil war going on during >her > > entire reign. This was undoubtedly the reason why there was little >interest > > in having a daughter declared the heir--very few people in the 16th >century > > had a good opinion of Maud. > > > > Dawn > > > >I don't think the Salic Law was in the mind of Henry VIII at all. The Salic >Law came from Clovis and was a list of many laws regarding behavior (murder >etc). The part you mentioned was concerned with inheriting money and >property (wehrgeld) not thrones or offices. The laws were reformulated under >Charlemagne in the 9th century but were all but forgotten by the 13th >century because they had become part of the common laws. The law was used >with regard to the throne by the French in 1316 when the brother of the king >wished to take the throne rather than have it be given to his 6 year old >niece. There is no evidence that he attained the crown due to the Salic Law >rather than the desire to have a grown man on the throne rather than a 6 >year old child. This law only seems to be invoked for convenience such as >when a foreign woman is in the succession or when the power structure of the >day wishes someone else to rule. The law isn't used in many cases when women >have inherited fiefs such as a duchy as mentioned in the Treaty of Guerande >which was inherited by a woman. I believe France is the only country to use >the Salic Law with reference to the throne until the 18th century. ***** Actually Salic Law forms the basis for the concept of primogeniture, whereby all property and titles proceed to the first-born son, no matter where he falls in birth order. If no male issue occurs, the property and titles go to the eldest male relative. This concept is still in use today: the current heir to the British throne is Prince Charles, in spite of his having an older sister (Princess Anne). Shoud Charles die before ascending the throne, Prince William will become the heir, in spite of Anne having children older than Prince William. While the concept has been used frequently up until present, the official invoking of Salic Law occurs much less often; as with many other such laws, they are invoked when it suits the purpose of the people invoking it. ***** >I have heard that the Salic Law was invoked with regard to Matilda. However, >she did come to rule which seems to contradict that. She was extremely >unpopular with the people and the nobles as was her husband. Stephen beat >her in battle and came to the throne. ***** Salic Law was invoked to set aside the will drawn up by Henry I that named her (as his daughter) as his heir over Stephen of Blois (his nephew). Stephen seized the throne, and a protracted civil war ensued, with both of them periodically claiming victory over the other. Maud's forces were eventually able to secure London, and she was crowned queen, but Stephen was able to escape, and his forces continued the civil war. After approximately 9 months, Stephen, who had escaped from Maud, forced her to flee London. She and Stephen eventually were able to come to terms: Stephen could have the throne, but Maud's son Henry, would be named Stephen's heir. This occured on Stephen's death, and Maud's son became Henry II (who had his own problems with women, but that's another story!). Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 03:30:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V7U25f004714 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 03:30:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V7R93O026856 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 01:27:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V7R8op020360; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 01:27:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V7R4op020312 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 01:27:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (ppp-67-117-4-150.dialup.irvnca.pacbell.net [67.117.4.150]) h6V7QxFJ026518 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:27:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030731001620.00ba6f48@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:24:27 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 464 In-Reply-To: <20030730.132505.1776.0.Cley@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:20 PM 7/30/2003 -0700, Arlys wrote: >Yup. England wasn't under Salic Law at the time of the Tudors. Or before, >either. > >And I totally agree with you re: Starkey. Waaaay too full of his personal >biases, and pompous enough to state them as fact. (Um, David, there's >this thing most historians use called "evidence"....) > >Arlys, mundanely an MA in history > >On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:34:08 EDT MaddNancy@aol.com writes: > > Dawn Jacobson wrote: > > > > > Salic Law excludes women from inheriting a throne. > > > > But according to Henry V, this law only applies to France, not > > England! > > > > I saw the Starkey show and disliked him rather intensely just in the > > first > > few minutes. He sounded like a tabloid journalist hyping > > everything. > > > > My 2 cents... > > > > Nancy Stengel Ulmer Actually, if you go back and read my original post, I did not state the England was under Salic Law; I said that Salic Law excluded women from ascending a throne. It is important to remember that through the 16th century and after, England had close ties with most of what are now countries in western Europe; close ties usually mean common ideas, and many people did not relish the idea of a woman, any woman, ascending the throne of England. I agree with you that Starkey is not very likeable; I must admit, I also question his seriousness to his subject, as I felt in watching a portion of the series (I saw the part about Anne of Cleves) that he preferred to play up incidents that justified his own emphasis on sex, rather than give a serious, objective examination to the lives of six very interesting women. I'm afraid he goes into the same category as all those other "experts" that require a large dose of salt with anything they dish up. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 04:10:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V8AG5f021486 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:10:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V87K3O029844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:07:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V87ImL007350; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:07:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6V87FmL007338 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:07:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h6V87Ef00318.; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:07:14 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:07:14 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:06:58 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK event Stoneleigh, Aug. 9-10 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, the last Kirby was wet, as was at least one other (the event was held 6 or 7 times). We are having rain in the UK after a hot dry spell - the hot weather (to us, anyway) is forecast to return next week. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> mooncat@in-tch.com 07/31/03 05:58am >>> Kirby? Was that the one swimming in mud? If it's raining up your way, we could sure use some of it over here.....No precip. for I-dunno-how-long, plus abnormally high temps and very low humidity. --sue (thinking that this summer has actually got her looking forward to winter....;-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 06:55:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VAtr5f009912 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 06:55:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VAqn3O012153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:52:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VAqjhG018583; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:52:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VAqahG018475 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:52:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessica.webwarren.com (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.17.255]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by webwarren.com (8.12.8/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6VAqS2C026222 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 06:52:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030731064844.039b64b0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: arachne@pop.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 06:52:20 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Williamsburg and Richmond Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-SPAMCHECK.NET-Metrics: net.indra.com 1168; From=1 Message-ID=1 Received=1 Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Melanie Schuessler wrote: > From where I am, you pretty much have to go to Richmond to get to >Williamsburg. And from where we are, not. Well, from where we'd be coming from to get to Williamsburg. Frank's folks are in Virginia Beach, so we always take the Eastern Shore down from New Jersey, and then we do Williamsburg as a day trip from VB. We're actually going to be in VB this weekend (if the gods are willing!), for a family wedding, but we're likely not going to have the chance to stick around for anything else. Hopefully we'll be able to manage some time to get to Williamsburg and/or Jamestown around Christmastime. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 07:04:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VB4L5f009957 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 07:04:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VB1T3O013018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 05:01:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VB1NAf022764; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 05:01:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VB1IAf022645 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 05:01:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 52F1B1B256A for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 07:01:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <06b401c35753$0f90b630$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030731001620.00ba6f48@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 464 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 07:01:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > I saw the Starkey show and disliked him rather intensely just in the > > > first > > > few minutes. He sounded like a tabloid journalist hyping > > > everything. Actually, he reminded me strongly of Robin Leach, who had one of the most annoying voices ever. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 10:54:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VEsP5f010922 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:54:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VEpG3O003617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:51:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VEpCO3025942; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:51:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VEp9O3025913 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:51:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030731145108.YVCS14590.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:51:08 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20030731153145.021442c0@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:33:41 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bible comment In-Reply-To: <200307302133.15313.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <6.0.0.14.0.20030730122058.021eae68@pop.ntlworld.com> <4EFA24C4-C20F-11D7-B425-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> <6.0.0.14.0.20030730122058.021eae68@pop.ntlworld.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7AC5C49; boundary="=======121E221E=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======121E221E======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7AC5C49; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 02:33 31/07/2003, you wrote: >Henry needed an heir, but he didn't specifically need an heir from Anne >Boleyn. His decision to divorce Katherine was purely political, surely, >but his decision to marry Anne specifically, and not take a bride who could >give him advantages other than a male heir certainly had other motives as >well. I did mention that his choice was personal, but the decision to divorce Katherine and marry to sire an heir was not. At the time alliances were pressed on him with France, or Germany, depending on which direction the political wind was blowing, but he stuck out for Anne. He was obsessed with her, but had he declared his intention to stay married to Katharine and have Mary as his heir, Anne might well have been a mistress instead (she might also have lived longer). Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======121E221E======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======121E221E=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 10:54:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VEse5f010925 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:54:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VEpj3O003676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:51:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VEpjO3026293; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:51:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VEpBO3025932 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:51:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030731145110.YVFH14590.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:51:10 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20030731153424.0220a5f0@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:43:51 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bible comment In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030730235025.00b30f40@pop.mail.yahoo.com> References: <007a01c356bb$a49c36c0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> <140.1665acdf.2c5935b5@aol.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030730090855.02ca3e90@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7AC5C49; boundary="=======32581ADB=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======32581ADB======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7AC5C49; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >Actually Salic Law forms the basis for the concept of primogeniture, >whereby all property and titles proceed to the first-born son, no matter >where he falls in birth order. Salic Law disbars women from inheriting. Primogeniture ensures that the males inherit first, but does not disbar women from the inheritance. >If no male issue occurs, the property and titles go to the eldest male >relative. This concept is still in use today: the current heir to the >British throne is Prince Charles, in spite of his having an older sister >(Princess Anne). Actually Charles is the eldest. >>I have heard that the Salic Law was invoked with regard to Matilda. However, >>she did come to rule which seems to contradict that. She was extremely >>unpopular with the people and the nobles as was her husband. Stephen beat >>her in battle and came to the throne. She did not rule. She is not listed as Queen of England in any source I have ever read, or been forced to learn at school. She did claim the throne, but since, even then, the throne was bestowed on the monarch by the people (in theory!) she was never accepted or acknowledged as Queen. Her 'coronation' was never accepted or ratified. She never ruled, there are no laws bearing her name. She was a claimant, much the same as Monmouth, Mary Queen of Scots or James Edward Stuart were. (The Brother Cadfael books are set during this civil war, btw). Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======32581ADB======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======32581ADB=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 11:38:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VFcf5f011173 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:38:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VFZX3O009233 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:35:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VFZViI000270; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:35:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VFZRiI000160 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:35:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h6VFZPf22921.; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:35:25 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:35:26 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:35:10 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re:Salic Law, was [h-cost] Re: bible comment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com 07/31/03 03:43pm >>> >>If no male issue occurs, the property and titles go to the eldest male >>relative. This concept is still in use today: the current heir to the >>British throne is Prince Charles, in spite of his having an older sister >>(Princess Anne). >Actually Charles is the eldest. Well spotted, Lynne - I hadn't noticed that error. And of course the Salic Law would have prevented the present Queen from inheriting; presumably the crown would have had to go to a male cousin. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 12:07:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VG7l5f011352 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:07:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VG4O3O012538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:04:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VG4MgF021970; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:04:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VG4IgF021925 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:04:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip143.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.143]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F08B6A63D for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:41:15 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:04:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII Message-ID: <3F28DB92.21650.370F03CA@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3F27CCCD.30998.32ED52CF@localhost> In-reply-to: <200307301951.54675.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Actually, there is evidence that both Edward VI and the D of > > Richmond were sick toward the ends of their lives. Edward had a case > > of measles which lead to consumption. (Which was a common problem up > > until the treatment of TB changed to using antibiotics.) > > Interesting. I never heard that particular theory before. I had > heard other theories--including the theory that Somerset was poisoning > him. In medical school they used him as an example of a childhood illness activating the disease by liberating the TB bug because of the way measles in particular causes changes in calcium metabolism. It's well known that Edward had measles. And his symptoms started after that and sound very much like consumption (which is just an old word for active TB.) > > The Duke of > > Richmond also probably had TB. He certainly looked ill in the > > portrait done of him. Arthur was pretty healthy until he took sick > > at the end. > > Things like sudden fevers did kill apparently healthy folk. There was > a disease, referred to only as the "sweating sickness", which Henry > dreaded above all things. So far as I know, there is no commonly > acceptable hypothesis as to what it really was. None that I've ever seen. Some people think it may have been a form of influenza. But there are many fever causing diseases and at this point they'd be almost impossible to sort out. And one of the things that I didn't know is that Katherine was sick at the same time as Arthur but recovered when he continued to fail. (This was one of the things brought out in Six Wives.) > > When Henry VIII > > > wanted his divorce, the question was if Arthur had been mature > > > enough to consumate the marriage with Katherine. Arthur's illness > > > was sudden, suprising, and certainly explains in great part why > > > Henry VII practically kept the younger Henry under lock and key > > > until the later's death. Arthur, not Henry, was Henry VII's pride > > > and joy; perhaps he saw too much of Edward IV in his younger son. > > That's my recollection too. Arthur was 15 when they married him to > Katherine; age alone is no reason to assume the marriage wasn't > consummated. But Katherine always denied it, and there was no > contrary proof. Age certainly isn't a bar to that sort of thing! When I was in residency we had a 10 year old girl who was pregnant by her 9 year old "boyfriend". While it is pretty unusual for a person who is that young to be sexually mature enough, 14 and 15 year old boys can be *quite* randy! (It's a wonder that we don't want to have all little girls in chastity belts. It's also a pity that parents don't understand how early you have to start sex education if you don't want them to start playing around with the fun parts before they know the consequences. It was *quite* obvious from talking to the 10 year old girl that they had no clue that they were even having sex. They were just "feeling good.") > Defender of the Faith. He got the title, ironically, because he wrote > a theological tome refuting one of the German protestant divines (I > don't recall all the details). He was ridiculously proud of the > distinction. Yep, that's it. But that's the translation of what it was called. > Once, long ago, I read everything I could find about Henry VIII and > his reign.... I still do. I'm particularly interested in 1525-1550 and grab all I can about that time period. Knowing the politics of the time often helps understand a lot about how the clothing changed during that time. And you'd be surprised at how much you can pick up about actual clothing if you are reading history. (And some of the newer books have photographs of portraits that I haven't yet seen, even in my perusal of the National Portrait Gallery Archives in London.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 12:14:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VGE65f011382 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:14:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VGB83O013322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:11:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VGB7gF026952; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:11:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from omta02.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VGB4gF026906 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:11:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (dsnat [216.200.145.62]) by omta02.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EBDCF6A3D for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 07:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id D88244555; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 07:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 07:44:59 -0700 (PDT) From: prairielark To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victoria gone?????!!!!! X-Originating-Ip: [66.162.203.195] Message-Id: <20030731144500.D88244555@sitemail.everyone.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks to all who responded... I, too, had a lesser opinion of the "new" format, but at the time of the change, I assumed I alone held that opinion because I am unfashionably behind the times and do, emotionally and mentally anyway, "live" in the Victorian era. I so much missed the features on literature and old-fashioned clothing, or modern clothing inspired by the old. I loved, at first, the emphasis on women entrepreneurs until it seemed that they all were mimicking one another, from one frou-frou high-priced antique shop/bakery/florist to another. I missed the interviews with Tasha Tudor, Madeleine L'Engel, and Nancy Lindemeier's wonderful letters. I guess I am gratified that at least some on this list, and many subscribers, were equally disappointed. To me, it seemed that Victoria sold out to the modern pop-economic market, and lost. I guess maybe I'm not so sad after all. Is there a niche market out there who is still looking for the things the "old" Victoria gave, the quality photography, the delectable recipes, the features on European out-of-the way haunts and the emphasis on gentle, self-reliant living? Can anyone tell me where to find out more about the "Vintage Fashions" magazine? --even tho' it may not address all of these, at least maybe it will fulfill my hunger for stunning photos & detailed studies of scrumptious garments. Phoebe the prairie lark --- Katy Bishop wrote: > >Victoria lost me a few years ago for that very reason--I loved the first >few years, was a subscribed since the second issue. It had much more >content then, not just pretty pictures. I remember a wonderful article >on garnet jewelry, and on my "not-yet" friend John Burrows reproduction >carpets. > >It's sad. I am looking forward to the new Vintage Fashions magazine. I >wonder what it will be like. > >Katy > _____________________________________________________________ Herspace.com [[feed your heart * fuel your art]] http://www.herspace.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 13:29:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VHTa5f011751 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:29:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VHQA3O023325 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:26:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VHQ7Q0028147; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:26:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VHQ3Q0028102 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:26:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com ESMTP <20030731172602.KSG9049.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:26:02 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20030731182446.021d7048@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:25:29 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII In-Reply-To: <3F28DB92.21650.370F03CA@localhost> References: <200307301951.54675.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3F27CCCD.30998.32ED52CF@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-A501FE9; boundary="=======5147772=======" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======5147772======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-A501FE9; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 17:04 31/07/2003, you wrote: > > Once, long ago, I read everything I could find about Henry VIII and > > his reign.... I did my first degree in English and Art History, and for my dissertation I studied Holbein and secular propoganda. A dream for a costume fanatic! Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE VANESSA from Awe-Struck books http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/ --=======5147772======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======5147772=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 13:32:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VHWs5f011766 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:32:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VHTc3O023830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:29:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VHTbQ0000897; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:29:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80404.mail.yahoo.com (web80404.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6VHTFQ0000549 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:29:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030731172910.96243.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.117.4.58] by web80404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:29:10 PDT Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:29:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson Subject: Re:Salic Law, was [h-cost] Re: bible comment To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Kate M Bunting wrote: > > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > >>> lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com 07/31/03 03:43pm >>> > > >>If no male issue occurs, the property and titles > go to the eldest > male > >>relative. This concept is still in use today: the > current heir to the > > >>British throne is Prince Charles, in spite of his > having an older > sister > >>(Princess Anne). > > >Actually Charles is the eldest. To quote Homer (Simpson): Doh! I knew that--that's what I get for answering my e-mail at 1:00 in the morning. ;-D Thanks Kate! Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 14:28:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VISY5f012073 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:28:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VIOa3O000904 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:24:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VIOTTg016192; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:24:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12501.mail.yahoo.com (web12501.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.193]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6VIOHTg015957 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:24:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030731182417.20380.qmail@web12501.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.192.143.25] by web12501.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:24:17 PDT Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:24:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Lil Sorepaws To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200307311801.h6VI18Ti026940@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Wooly woes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi there ... I just got my (itchy) hands on some pretty dreamy wool (6 yards coat weight heavy black which I want to make into a cloak - 6 yards cranberry red in a medium weight - what do I make from that? ;) and want to know if I need to 1) pre-shrink it or otherwise pre-treat it and 2) if so, HOW?? Wash? Dry Clean? "iron" on steam with iron 1/4 inch from the surface (as fabric savvy suggests) ... I don't want to lose a lot of yardage but at the same time I'd rather not make something only to have it shrink on me when it gets cleaned!! Both of these are different weight for wool (one is a nice heavy -think lighterweight pea coat- black woolm the other a thin enough red wool to work for a suit or skirt .. would that one work for an elizabethan or tudor type gown? Or would i fry in it since I would need to line it to avoid allergies (masochist i know ;) ...or should i just make a cloak for cooler fall/spring nights and consider myself done? Pardon the million questions but i generally never work with wool so I am clueless to the extreme ... also one last question .. what type of cloak to make to use the wool in the most optimal manner? I have a number of patterns and they all call fro very different yardages for what looks like the same thing! HELP?! Thanks much for all your wisdom!! - lil (back to lurking) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 15:08:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VJ8q5f012278 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:08:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VJ4j3O005800 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:04:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VJ4hsG017856; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:04:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VJ4dsG017796 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:04:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h6VJ4cL8015531 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:04:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.196.198] (tnt-1-6.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.198]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VJ4XlA015351 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:04:36 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.14.0.20030731153424.0220a5f0@pop.ntlworld.com> References: <007a01c356bb$a49c36c0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> <140.1665acdf.2c5935b5@aol.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030730090855.02ca3e90@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <6.0.0.14.0.20030731153424.0220a5f0@pop.ntlworld.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:36:19 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bible comment Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> >>Actually Salic Law forms the basis for the concept of >>primogeniture, whereby all property and titles proceed to the >>first-born son, no matter where he falls in birth order. > >Salic Law disbars women from inheriting. Primogeniture ensures that >the males inherit first, but does not disbar women from the >inheritance. A key part of primogeniture is that only _one_ person inherits (the first-born "primo-geniture"). This contrasts, for example, with the partible inheritance of early medieval Wales where all sons inherited equally (including "illegitimate" ones -- something the English found very strange). Actually, the Welsh system was a bit more extreme than that because, within a particular degree of relatedness, inherited land could be redistributed equally among cousins, not just among brothers. (Women could participate in this inheritance on behalf of their children under certain particular circumstances where the children's father was not part of the Welsh land system.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 15:09:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VJ945f012282 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:09:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VJ603O005947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VJ5xsG018774; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:05:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt19.cluster1.charter.net (remt19.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VJ5tsG018650 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:05:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [68.185.167.6] (HELO laptop) by remt19.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with SMTP id 109008937 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:05:48 -0400 Message-ID: <005301c35796$b087b320$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030731182417.20380.qmail@web12501.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wooly woes Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:05:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > to know if I need to 1) pre-shrink it or otherwise pre-treat it and 2) if > so, HOW?? Wash? Dry Clean? "iron" on steam with iron 1/4 inch from the > surface (as fabric savvy suggests) ... How do you want to clean it after it's made? If you want to be able to wash and dry at home, then pre-wash the h*ll out of it. It will shrink, you may want to test a swatch to see how much shrinkage you get. It's my understanding that dry cleaning shrinks less, but you will probably still get some shrinkage from it.\ >the other a thin enough red wool to > work for a suit or skirt .. would that one work for an elizabethan or > tudor type gown? Or would i fry in it since I would need to line it to > avoid allergies (masochist i know ;) ...or should i just make a cloak for > cooler fall/spring nights and consider myself done? Wool works great for an Eliz., which you want to line anyhow. I have a middle class Eliz. in mid-weight wool lined with linen and find it to be quite comfortable with linen smock, corset, corded petticoat and linen underskirt. Depending on drape, you may want to interline with something a bit sturdier for the bodice, but I only put a few cable ties for boning in the front and find that it works well for me. If you are shooting for a higher class look, you may want to interline the bodice with a cotton duck. I'm not sure what you would use in the skirt...I like mine to be fairly drapey. I have found that I *love* working with wool, it's just a great fabric! However, I don't have any itching issues, so good luck! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 18:06:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VM6O5f013021 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:06:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VM5l3O000387 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:05:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VM32u3017508; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:03:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt20.cluster1.charter.net (remt20.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VM2wu3017377 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:02:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [68.185.167.6] (HELO laptop) by remt20.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with SMTP id 108980922 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:02:53 -0400 Message-ID: <007201c357af$6bc260a0$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030731182417.20380.qmail@web12501.mail.yahoo.com><005301c35796$b087b320$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wooly woes Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:02:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I never line the skirts of my kirtles, but instead use a separate > petticoat, as that's easier to wash separately. I usually line my gowns > though. What do others do? > > K. I line the skirt, but only because then I have a reversable kirtle - two for one! It makes it a little bit heavier, but I figure the harder part is in the lining of the bodice, so I might as well get a little more for the work I'm putting in it. Also, all of my kirtles so far have been linen "lined" with linen - if I were to use a heavier fabric, I would probably not line, or line with a very light linen. Lining also allows me to pin or tuck the skirt out of the way if needed - I always wear at least a corded petticoat, if not also an underskirt with a kirtle. ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 18:28:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VMSq5f013140 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:28:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VMSM3O003241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:28:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VMSKu3006837; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:28:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VMSGu3006751 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:28:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.50.2055b6be (4116) for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:28:07 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <50.2055b6be.2c5af1f6@aol.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:28:06 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Bleh X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Informative subject line, no? Just wondering about those of you SCA costumer types, how the heck do you manage to make enough garb for Pennsic? I can't seem to get through a frickin' under kirtle without it becoming a Project (TM)...that takes 4 weeks to complete. And now I'm staring at my farthingale with loathing and dismay, because I'm not sure I believe in the Arnold "It's 10 inches too long...for the tucks!" theory about Alcega anymore.... Does anyone else feel like they "costume/research/sew" all the time but have these tiny little wardrobes? I have one year to clothe myself for Pennsic, I think I'm too anal to get it done. OK, rant over. -Sarra Wryght www.sixteenthcenturystitchery.com (Elizabethan Dress Diaries, etc) Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 18:44:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VMiD5f013203 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:44:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VMhf3O005188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:43:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VMheu3017940; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:43:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta02-srv.alltel.net (mta02.alltel.net [166.102.165.144]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VMhbu3017902 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:43:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jamie ([162.40.241.5]) by mta02-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20030731224337.VFOQ11135.mta02-srv.alltel.net@jamie> for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:43:37 -0500 From: "Jamie" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] looking for black silk cord Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:13:36 -0400 Message-ID: <06ba01c357a0$396a0860$6401a8c0@jamie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030731151348.00abcda8@mail.grumpybadger.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO De-lurking for a moment as I actually have something to contribute LOL.... I use a twist-a-braid by Conair for my cording, can be found in the curling iron/blow dryer aisle of department stores. I figured if it could be used for my daughter's hair why not cording and it is soo easy to use just for that, so now we have 2, one is kept in my sewing room the other, the girls wear!! Okay back to lurking...... Jamie -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Ysoria de Brai Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:32 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for black silk cord >I too had a hard time finding black silk cord--not sure where you'll >find >the larger sizes. There are however gadgets that you can get for twisting >your own cord (as opposed to using turned tubing). I have found that the easiest and fastest way to make twisted rope (or cord) is with an electric drill, cordless or otherwise. All you need to do is replace the drill bit with some sort of hook To use it you secure one end of a piece of "string" to something that will not move ( I often tie it to the back of a heavy chair or a door handle ) and hook the other to the drill. You can then use the drill to put a considerable amount of twist on that string. If you then keep a bit of tension on the ends of the string, you can pick it up in the middle and it will twist back up on itself. The drill can also be used in reverse if the cord needs some help in twisting back. If you want to make a really long cord it sometimes helps to have three people around, just to keep things from tangling, but I often manage with just some tape to keep the cord put. There are a lot of hand cranked machines that do the same, but anything that can put in a twist will work, including drop spindles. You can even do it by hand, it just takes forever and keeping the tension even is tricky. - Nicole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 18:44:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VMie5f013212 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:44:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VMdF3O004493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:39:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VMdDu3014598; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:39:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from colo2.internet-host.net (dsl093-041-231.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.41.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VMd7u3014504 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:39:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from SPHINX.grumpybadger.com [66.171.63.123] by colo2.internet-host.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.00) id A9A84370126; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:35:20 -0700 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030731151348.00abcda8@mail.grumpybadger.com> X-Sender: Ysoria@grumpybadger.com@mail.grumpybadger.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:31:42 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Ysoria de Brai Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for black silk cord In-Reply-To: <3F2891B5.5040408@faucet.net> References: <3F1D724B.7090202@kabelfoon.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I too had a hard time finding black silk cord--not sure where you'll find >the larger sizes. There are however gadgets that you can get for twisting >your own cord (as opposed to using turned tubing). I have found that the easiest and fastest way to make twisted rope (or cord) is with an electric drill, cordless or otherwise. All you need to do is replace the drill bit with some sort of hook To use it you secure one end of a piece of "string" to something that will not move ( I often tie it to the back of a heavy chair or a door handle ) and hook the other to the drill. You can then use the drill to put a considerable amount of twist on that string. If you then keep a bit of tension on the ends of the string, you can pick it up in the middle and it will twist back up on itself. The drill can also be used in reverse if the cord needs some help in twisting back. If you want to make a really long cord it sometimes helps to have three people around, just to keep things from tangling, but I often manage with just some tape to keep the cord put. There are a lot of hand cranked machines that do the same, but anything that can put in a twist will work, including drop spindles. You can even do it by hand, it just takes forever and keeping the tension even is tricky. - Nicole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 19:36:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VNas5f013464 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:36:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VL3A3O021704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:03:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VL37fX025831; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:03:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6VL33fX025768 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:03:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 490BC369B6 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:03:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19iKZi-0004wD-00 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:03:02 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wooly woes In-Reply-To: <005301c35796$b087b320$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> References: <20030731182417.20380.qmail@web12501.mail.yahoo.com> <005301c35796$b087b320$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:03:02 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rebecca wrote: > Wool works great for an Eliz., which you want to line anyhow. I have a > middle class Eliz. in mid-weight wool lined with linen and find it to be > quite comfortable with linen smock, corset, corded petticoat and linen > underskirt. I never line the skirts of my kirtles, but instead use a separate petticoat, as that's easier to wash separately. I usually line my gowns though. What do others do? K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 20:29:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h710Tf5f013635 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:29:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h710T93O018591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:29:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h710T7x5026102; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:29:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h710T3x5026074 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:29:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.159]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id h710qAP18194 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 10:52:10 +1000 Message-ID: <021401c357c4$5d9d43e0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030731182417.20380.qmail@web12501.mail.yahoo.com><005301c35796$b087b320$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wooly woes Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 10:32:16 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I never line the skirts of my kirtles, but instead use a separate > petticoat, as that's easier to wash separately. > K. I do this too. The wools need/needed far less washing than the linens. I only wash my woolens after going somewhere extremely muddy. Dirt can often be brushed off woolens, but unfortunately not linens. > > I usually line my gowns though. What do others do? > > K. I've not made any later period gowns since becoming a compleat authenticity nut. I don't line my earlier period woolens, but use a linen undertunic. Glenda. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 20:44:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h710i45f013664 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:44:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h710hb3O019854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:43:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h710hax5003899; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:43:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h710hYx5003830 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:43:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a25.in-tch.com [66.62.107.5]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h710O1L05718 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F29B824.C9059430@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:45:24 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bleh References: <50.2055b6be.2c5af1f6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This SCA costumer type solves the Pennsic problem by not going! Even if I did go, I wouldn't be able to stay the whole length of time it's going on. So I might add a few pieces (extra shifts or something), but otherwise, my fairly plain wardrobe could handle a weekish of camping. And I completely understand about small items of clothing turning into Major Life Projects. Something Nicole said a while back about using a broken lozenge twill fabric got me to thinking....so now, instead of just ordering some wool and making a Norman outfit, I want to start from the fleece, spin the yarn myself, do the whole natural dye bit, weave it, and THEN sew it. I am currently spinning like a demon--it's so much fun learning something completely new. And researching wool types to get the most appropriate fleece to make a worsted fabric from.... And eventually, I'll have to learn to weave! So, maybe, several years down the road, I'll finally have a new outfit! ;o) --sue, who should be out on her (cooler than inside the house) front porch, spinning, instead of on the computer! LoreleiMorte@aol.com wrote: > > Informative subject line, no? > > Just wondering about those of you SCA costumer types, how the heck do you > manage to make enough garb for Pennsic? I can't seem to get through a frickin' > under kirtle without it becoming a Project (TM)...that takes 4 weeks to > complete. And now I'm staring at my farthingale with loathing and dismay, because I'm > not sure I believe in the Arnold "It's 10 inches too long...for the tucks!" > theory about Alcega anymore.... > > Does anyone else feel like they "costume/research/sew" all the time but have > these tiny little wardrobes? I have one year to clothe myself for Pennsic, I > think I'm too anal to get it done. > > OK, rant over. > > -Sarra Wryght > www.sixteenthcenturystitchery.com (Elizabethan Dress Diaries, etc) > Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 20:59:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h710xg5f013718 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:59:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h710sG3O020731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:54:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h710sEx5009207; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:54:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h710sDx5009156 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:54:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a25.in-tch.com [66.62.107.5]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h710YfL09762 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:34:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F29BAA4.9F9A8036@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:56:04 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wooly woes References: <20030731182417.20380.qmail@web12501.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Line (and interline) the bodices. Line the sleeves. Leave the skirts alone unless I've done loads of heavy beading or some such, and need to protect the back of the work. --sue Kirrily Robert wrote: > > I never line the skirts of my kirtles, but instead use a separate > petticoat, as that's easier to wash separately. I usually line my gowns > though. What do others do? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 21:20:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h711Kv5f013809 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 21:20:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h711KN3O023320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:20:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h711KLEN024036; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:20:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.nameserver.tv (mail.nameserver.tv [209.144.109.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h711KIEN024006 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:20:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from TEENALAPTOP ([68.154.50.184]) by mail.nameserver.tv (Merak 5.8.6) with SMTP id ABG74101 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:19:15 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01c357ca$78264490$230110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <50.2055b6be.2c5af1f6@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bleh Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 21:15:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am SO with you on this one! I am not going to Pennsic this year, but I am already stressing over the costuming symposium and that isn't until October! Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:28 PM Subject: [h-cost] Bleh > Informative subject line, no? > > Just wondering about those of you SCA costumer types, how the heck do you > manage to make enough garb for Pennsic? I can't seem to get through a frickin' > under kirtle without it becoming a Project (TM)...that takes 4 weeks to > complete. And now I'm staring at my farthingale with loathing and dismay, because I'm > not sure I believe in the Arnold "It's 10 inches too long...for the tucks!" > theory about Alcega anymore.... > > Does anyone else feel like they "costume/research/sew" all the time but have > these tiny little wardrobes? I have one year to clothe myself for Pennsic, I > think I'm too anal to get it done. > > OK, rant over. > > -Sarra Wryght > www.sixteenthcenturystitchery.com (Elizabethan Dress Diaries, etc) > Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 22:02:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7122Y5f013980 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 22:02:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7120Y3O027088 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:00:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7120UXj015277; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:00:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7120QXk015235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:00:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h7120sbh024976 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 22:00:54 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h7120s8C024974 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 22:00:54 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bible comment Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 22:00:54 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <6.0.0.14.0.20030730122058.021eae68@pop.ntlworld.com> <6.0.0.14.0.20030731153145.021442c0@pop.ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.14.0.20030731153145.021442c0@pop.ntlworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307312200.54127.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h7120QXk015235 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 31 July 2003 10:33 am, Lynne Connolly wrote: > At 02:33 31/07/2003, you wrote: > >Henry needed an heir, but he didn't specifically need an heir from Anne > >Boleyn. His decision to divorce Katherine was purely political, surely, > >but his decision to marry Anne specifically, and not take a bride who > > could give him advantages other than a male heir certainly had other > > motives as well. > > I did mention that his choice was personal, but the decision to divorce > Katherine and marry to sire an heir was not. Apologies. I missed that part of your comments. -- Cathy Raymond “No man is rich enough to buy back his past.” Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 23:00:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7130b5f014239 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:00:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h713073O002536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 21:00:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h71306NE015994; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 21:00:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h712xtNF015888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:59:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h71302bh025120 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:00:13 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h712xuMN025118 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 22:59:56 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 22:59:56 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3F27CCCD.30998.32ED52CF@localhost> <3F28DB92.21650.370F03CA@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3F28DB92.21650.370F03CA@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307312259.56201.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h712xtNF015888 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 31 July 2003 12:04 pm, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > Actually, there is evidence that both Edward VI and the D of > > > Richmond were sick toward the ends of their lives. Edward had a case > > > of measles which lead to consumption. (Which was a common problem up > > > until the treatment of TB changed to using antibiotics.) > > > > Interesting. I never heard that particular theory before. I had > > heard other theories--including the theory that Somerset was poisoning > > him. > > In medical school they used him as an example of a childhood illness > activating the disease by liberating the TB bug because of the way > measles in particular causes changes in calcium metabolism. > > It's well known that Edward had measles. And his symptoms started > after that and sound very much like consumption (which is just an old > word for active TB.) I'd heard of the "consumption" theory, now that I think about it, but hadn't heard of the measles part. Maybe that's because I haven't been to med school. :-) [snip] > > Things like sudden fevers did kill apparently healthy folk. There was > > a disease, referred to only as the "sweating sickness", which Henry > > dreaded above all things. So far as I know, there is no commonly > > acceptable hypothesis as to what it really was. > > None that I've ever seen. Some people think it may have been a form > of influenza. But there are many fever causing diseases and at this > point they'd be almost impossible to sort out. And one of the things > that I didn't know is that Katherine was sick at the same time as > Arthur but recovered when he continued to fail. (This was one of the > things brought out in Six Wives.) I remember that too, now that you mention it. There was a point at which the English considered sending her back to Spain, I believe, but she was still too weak to go. By the time she recovered, the idea of wedding her to Henry had taken hold. [snip] > > > Defender of the Faith. He got the title, ironically, because he wrote > > a theological tome refuting one of the German protestant divines (I > > don't recall all the details). He was ridiculously proud of the > > distinction. > > Yep, that's it. But that's the translation of what it was called. Right. He was awarded the title in Latin--the language of theology, among other things. "Fidei Defensor" according to a site I just found via Google. :-) > > Once, long ago, I read everything I could find about Henry VIII and > > his reign.... > > I still do. I'm particularly interested in 1525-1550 and grab all I > can about that time period. Knowing the politics of the time often > helps understand a lot about how the clothing changed during that > time. And you'd be surprised at how much you can pick up about actual > clothing if you are reading history. (And some of the newer books > have photographs of portraits that I haven't yet seen, even in my > perusal of the National Portrait Gallery Archives in London.) I never found that to be the case--but I was a lot younger and less patient then, and I admit the portraits at least hold many useful clues. Especially Holbein's. :-) Nowadays I'm more interested in Vikings. -- Cathy Raymond “No man is rich enough to buy back his past.” Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jul 31 23:36:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h713au5f014319 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:36:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h713aI3O006662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2003 21:36:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h713aGNE006538; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 21:36:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h713aDNE006513 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 21:36:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (ppp-67-117-6-185.dialup.irvnca.pacbell.net [67.117.6.185]) h713a9FJ027763 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 22:36:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030731202658.00b313c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:33:36 -0700 To: historical Costume From: Dawn Jacobson Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] And for something else to do in L.A.... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For all those coming to L.A. for Costume College, and still feeling flush enough after a visit to the Garment District... If you can score them, to go see "The Producers" at the Pantages Theater. The theater is lovely, Jason Alexander and Martin Short are terrific as Max Bialystock and Leo Bloom, and it's well worth going to see. I saw it this afternoon (I missed it when it was in San Francisco earlier this year), and I'm glad I saw it in L.A.--a much better theater experience. OCC: The designer for the show (William Ivey Long) did a great job of adapting the costumes from the "Springtime for Hitler" production number in the movie for the stage; the rest of the costumes are generally post-WWII generic costumes (vaguely late '50s/early '60s). All in all a very nice-looking show. Off to Costume College, so I'll catch up with e-mail on Monday night. Have a nice weekend! Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume