From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 1 12:06:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h91G6uIO012634 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:06:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h91G6G76003840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:06:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h91G6CFY000409; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:06:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h91G67FY000243 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:06:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 319326 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 09:05:59 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 09:10:21 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: enlarging patterns/pattern paper/calculations From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I buy rolls of the paper that covers the examination tables in medical offices - $9 for a roll of about 100 yards. It's sturdier than wrapping tissue but the widest it comes is 20". The medical supplies store I go to has two types; one works better than the other. LynnD On 9/30/03 7:57 PM, "Heather Rose Jones" wrote: > At 1:56 PM -0400 9/30/03, wrote: >>> >>> Right now I'm busily looking for a free/cheap paper source due to >> economic considerations. I'm sure my local art store does have paper if >> nothing else pans out. >>> >> >> When I need large semi-transparent paper on a pattern-by-pattern >> basis, I use paper tablecloths from the party section of discount >> stores. > > I once found a roll of paper tablecloth that even had an embossed > pattern of one-inch squares! > > Heather _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 1 12:39:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h91GdvIO012789 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:39:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h91Gd576007077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:39:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h91Gd3FY029337; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:39:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.primushost.com (smtp3.primushost.com [209.58.220.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h91Gd0FZ029203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:39:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp3.primushost.com with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim) id 1A4jzn-0002hC-7B; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:38:35 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 1A4k0w-0006ox-00; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:39:46 -0400 Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:39:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: enlarging patterns/pattern paper/calculations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I buy 3 foot wide tracing paper in rolls from charrette (an architects and art supplier. It works great for tracing patterns as it does not bleed through and it is sturdy enough to hold up to many pinnings when cutting cloth. www.charrette.com I did a catalogue search for the word "trace" .....and it seems they are once again carrying 4' wide tracing paper again, great for tracing/patterning skirts! Katy On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Lynn Downward wrote: >I buy rolls of the paper that covers the examination tables in medical >offices - $9 for a roll of about 100 yards. It's sturdier than wrapping >tissue but the widest it comes is 20". The medical supplies store I go to >has two types; one works better than the other. > >LynnD > > >On 9/30/03 7:57 PM, "Heather Rose Jones" >wrote: > >> At 1:56 PM -0400 9/30/03, wrote: >>>> >>>> Right now I'm busily looking for a free/cheap paper source due to >>> economic considerations. I'm sure my local art store does have paper if >>> nothing else pans out. >>>> >>> >>> When I need large semi-transparent paper on a pattern-by-pattern >>> basis, I use paper tablecloths from the party section of discount >>> stores. >> >> I once found a roll of paper tablecloth that even had an embossed >> pattern of one-inch squares! >> >> Heather > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 1 13:06:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h91H68IO013041 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 13:06:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h91H5B76009566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:05:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h91H57Y5023146; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:05:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h91H51Y5022927 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 319560 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 10:04:54 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 10:09:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: enlarging patterns/pattern paper/calculations From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah, that's often the issue with tracing paper; it won't hold up to pinning. I used to get the yellow architects' tracing paper, but I spent too much time repairing my patterns after pinning. It just wasn't worth it. LynnD On 10/1/03 9:39 AM, "Katy Bishop" wrote: > > I buy 3 foot wide tracing paper in rolls from charrette (an architects > and art supplier. It works great for tracing patterns as it does not > bleed through and it is sturdy enough to hold up to many pinnings when > cutting cloth. > > www.charrette.com > > I did a catalogue search for the word "trace" > > .....and it seems they are once again carrying 4' wide tracing paper > again, great for tracing/patterning skirts! > > Katy > > > On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Lynn Downward wrote: > >> I buy rolls of the paper that covers the examination tables in medical >> offices - $9 for a roll of about 100 yards. It's sturdier than wrapping >> tissue but the widest it comes is 20". The medical supplies store I go to >> has two types; one works better than the other. >> >> LynnD >> >> >> On 9/30/03 7:57 PM, "Heather Rose Jones" >> wrote: >> >>> At 1:56 PM -0400 9/30/03, wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Right now I'm busily looking for a free/cheap paper source due to >>>> economic considerations. I'm sure my local art store does have paper if >>>> nothing else pans out. >>>>> >>>> >>>> When I need large semi-transparent paper on a pattern-by-pattern >>>> basis, I use paper tablecloths from the party section of discount >>>> stores. >>> >>> I once found a roll of paper tablecloth that even had an embossed >>> pattern of one-inch squares! >>> >>> Heather >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian > vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 1 13:22:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h91HMvIO013147 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 13:22:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h91HM876011244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:22:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h91HM6Y5009428; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:22:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h91HLuY5009236 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:21:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail20.ureach.com (mail20.ureach.com [172.16.2.80]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA18233 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 13:21:55 -0400 Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-19-82-189.asm.bellsouth.net [68.19.82.189]) by mail20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA18229 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 13:21:55 -0400 Message-ID: <09fb01c38840$77ce2930$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: enlarging patterns/pattern paper/calculations Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 13:21:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I usually do all of my patterning with interfacing-like material. It is thin enough to be able to trace something beneath it, yet has so far proven to be fairly indestructible. It holds up to numerous pinnings, foldings, etc. It is also easy to trace if you are copying the pattern for someone else. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Downward" To: "h costume" Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: enlarging patterns/pattern paper/calculations > Ah, that's often the issue with tracing paper; it won't hold up to pinning. > I used to get the yellow architects' tracing paper, but I spent too much > time repairing my patterns after pinning. It just wasn't worth it. > LynnD > > On 10/1/03 9:39 AM, "Katy Bishop" wrote: > > > > > I buy 3 foot wide tracing paper in rolls from charrette (an architects > > and art supplier. It works great for tracing patterns as it does not > > bleed through and it is sturdy enough to hold up to many pinnings when > > cutting cloth. > > > > www.charrette.com > > > > I did a catalogue search for the word "trace" > > > > .....and it seems they are once again carrying 4' wide tracing paper > > again, great for tracing/patterning skirts! > > > > Katy > > > > > > On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Lynn Downward wrote: > > > >> I buy rolls of the paper that covers the examination tables in medical > >> offices - $9 for a roll of about 100 yards. It's sturdier than wrapping > >> tissue but the widest it comes is 20". The medical supplies store I go to > >> has two types; one works better than the other. > >> > >> LynnD > >> > >> > >> On 9/30/03 7:57 PM, "Heather Rose Jones" > >> wrote: > >> > >>> At 1:56 PM -0400 9/30/03, wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Right now I'm busily looking for a free/cheap paper source due to > >>>> economic considerations. I'm sure my local art store does have paper if > >>>> nothing else pans out. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> When I need large semi-transparent paper on a pattern-by-pattern > >>>> basis, I use paper tablecloths from the party section of discount > >>>> stores. > >>> > >>> I once found a roll of paper tablecloth that even had an embossed > >>> pattern of one-inch squares! > >>> > >>> Heather > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> h-costume mailing list > >> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >> > > > > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian > > vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 1 13:37:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h91HbCIO013263 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 13:37:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h91Ha876012335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:36:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h91Ha6fM019178; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:36:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h91HZvfM018944 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:35:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79445425CE for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:38:18 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3F7B1046.7060801@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:35:02 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: enlarging patterns/pattern paper/calculations References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lynn Downward wrote: > Ah, that's often the issue with tracing paper; it won't hold up to pinning. > I used to get the yellow architects' tracing paper, but I spent too much > time repairing my patterns after pinning. It just wasn't worth it. > LynnD > Once I've traced off my pattern and gotten the paper to the right size I either attach a fusible interfacing like Pellon or I transfer the pattern to muslin. The fusible stuff is really good for purchased patterns, too. I have some I have been using for more than 4 years and they hold up to repeated pinning very well. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 1 14:02:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h91I2qIO013347 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:02:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h91I1i76014647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:01:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h91I1etO012521; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:01:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h91I07tO011240 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:00:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id NAA20641 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 13:00:06 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: enlarging patterns/pattern paper/calculations Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 13:00:06 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3F7B1046.7060801@reddawn.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I use sew-in interfacing to make doll patterns and to trace from originals or from photocopy enlargements/reductions. It holds up better than tissue paper, is great for fitting patterns before cutting into fabric, presses up better and faster than tissue paper, and lies so much nicer and neater on fabric than tissue pattern paper or paper towels which is the more usual recommended material for making doll patterns. You can buy it by the package for small projects or by the yard for larger ones. Especially good for multiple uses. although the drawbacks are cost of it and the time it takes to trace over an existing pattern or making a "fair copy" for a final pattern. It is great, though for being able to use multiple colors of pencil or pen(pencil reccommended)on the same pattern draft to make tiny detail changes without ripping or tearing as easily as tissue pattern paper. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 2 04:54:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h928swIO021081 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 04:54:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h928s176003828 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Oct 2003 02:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h928rsbn012791; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 02:53:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gold.wightman.on.ca (gold.wightman.ca [216.249.0.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h928rqbn012779 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 02:53:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gold.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA90447738 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 04:53:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d7k7b6 (unknown [142.46.141.52]) by gold.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with SMTP id 39B0547758 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 04:53:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002601c388c3$8e49b020$348d2e8e@wightman.ca> From: "Five Rivers" To: "Historic Costume List" Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 04:59:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Subject: [h-cost] Men's Victorian Trousers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've just finished making Gary's Victorian trousers from the Laughing Moon pattern we carry (California Trousers) and thought I'd report. Again I must say, WOW! Terrific pattern, fabulous engineering, very clear and detailed instructions, superbly historically accurate. I'd have to say these are without doubt the best historical patterns on the market. The best. And you need to know I'm very hard to please. I used her pattern and instructions for classic welts, and came out with simply the best welt pockets I've ever done! Flat, perfect, very professional. If you're going to be making men's Victorian costume, whether it's early, mid or late, I highly recommend these patterns. Hope to have pictures posted on our website in a week or two. Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 2 10:07:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h92E73IO027688 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:07:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92E1P76017036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:01:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92E1N3W008487; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:01:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92E1L3W008472 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:01:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-45-155.jps.net ([209.165.45.155] helo=pavilion) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A541A-0001fZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 07:01:20 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01c388ee$26ef0b20$9b2da5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 07:04:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-ELNK-Trace: 9c05c41117f01b301aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79a3a9b1b9acc83e6beec45e37976760a8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] image sought X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h92E73IO027688 Status: RO I am looking for a particular image of a 15c v neck dress which shows a short length of lacing just below the v. When I attended Robin's workshop on the GFD it was in one of the books that was laying around. A medical health related book perhaps? Would any one be able to provide the name of this book, (Robin?) and even better, a digital image. Thanks, Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 2 10:49:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h92EnbIO027846 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:49:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92Emh76020675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:48:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92Emf3W009815; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:48:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92Emc3W009781 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:48:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.112]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44B602F8D2 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 07:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 07:48:34 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] tv ad eye-candy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <6EP43+F1vgd$IwTA@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Message-Id: <7F7FFC20-F4E7-11D7-A665-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't have TV access -- if anyone's seen this online, send me a link! it sounds gorgeous. .heather. On Saturday, September 27, 2003, at 03:15 PM, Jean Waddie wrote: > Heather Rose Jones wrote >> Has anyone else (I guess this would be USA only) been admiring the HP >> image-enhancement-services ads sporting what I take to be an early >> 17th c. Dutch painting come to life? (I'm embarrassed to confess >> that I don't recognize the painting/painter, but I'm reasonably >> confident about the time/place.) It's the one with the young boy >> running through the streets, if that twigs anyone's memory. >> >> It's not my era to be good on specifics, but as a costume generalist, >> I was quite impressed with the clothing ... and there was a good deal >> of it. >> >> Heather > > We've got it too (maybe only on cable, I don't take note of what > channel I'm watching). It is really gorgeous, isn't it? > > Jean > -- > Jean Waddie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 2 11:04:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h92F48IO027902 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:04:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92F2h76021777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:02:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92F2fDX020056; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:02:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ohsmtp03.ogw.rr.com (ohsmtp03.ogw.rr.com [65.24.7.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92F2bDX020008 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:02:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ohsmtp03.ogw.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.2) with SMTP id h92F2aCL001185 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:02:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01c401c388f6$2fc444b0$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7F7FFC20-F4E7-11D7-A665-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] tv ad eye-candy Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:02:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here you are: http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/hpads/everything/tv.html Scroll down to National Gallery... Just lovely! kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Meadows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] tv ad eye-candy > I don't have TV access -- if anyone's seen this online, send me a link! > it sounds gorgeous. > > .heather. > > > On Saturday, September 27, 2003, at 03:15 PM, Jean Waddie wrote: > > > Heather Rose Jones wrote > >> Has anyone else (I guess this would be USA only) been admiring the HP > >> image-enhancement-services ads sporting what I take to be an early > >> 17th c. Dutch painting come to life? (I'm embarrassed to confess > >> that I don't recognize the painting/painter, but I'm reasonably > >> confident about the time/place.) It's the one with the young boy > >> running through the streets, if that twigs anyone's memory. > >> > >> It's not my era to be good on specifics, but as a costume generalist, > >> I was quite impressed with the clothing ... and there was a good deal > >> of it. > >> > >> Heather > > > > We've got it too (maybe only on cable, I don't take note of what > > channel I'm watching). It is really gorgeous, isn't it? > > > > Jean > > -- > > Jean Waddie > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 2 11:21:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h92FLKIO027936 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:21:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92FKM76023388 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:20:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92FKKDX004391; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:20:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thorin.grics.net (thorin.grics.net [64.40.67.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92FKGDX004315 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:20:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-74.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.74]) by thorin.grics.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 505B0416C0 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:20:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3F7C434C.6090502@grics.net> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 10:25:00 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: enlarging patterns References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah Albert! I used to use this a lot. Soooo handy, esp. when your copy shop can run 11x17 or bigger paper in the copier. In case your budget loosens up - or you see it on sale Giant graph paper, sometimes called "presentation" graph paper, 1" grid, from the local Big Office Supply store. My pad has about 50 sheets 26 x 32 whole squares plus a little over on all 4 sides. Around $15 or $20 iirc. And there's always 1" check gingham, around $3/yard (watch for sales) FWIW Edwinna _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 2 11:29:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h92FTQIO027947 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:29:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92FSR76024161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:28:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92FSPDX010919; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:28:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21402.mail.yahoo.com (web21402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h92FSNDX010894 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:28:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031002152823.44011.qmail@web21402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.159.211] by web21402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 08:28:23 PDT Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:28:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" To: antir-costumers@antir.sca.org, aotc@yahoogroups.com, h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Angharad's wedding clothing ideas X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO First, a tremendous thank you to those who have offered suggestions and help. Second, apologies to any who are on more than one of these three lists. I think I've narrowed down the clothing for the handfasting and wedding. For the handfasting in June, I will try to get a new cotehardie, and possibly a hood, done for him and a new undergown and short-sleeved overgown done for me. For the wedding itself, I will try to finish a nice headpiece and a sideless surcoat. I liked Robin's sideless I wore at the seminar, even if the fabric wasn't completely right, likely because of the design in the fabric and the way it draped. Problem for me is that the outfits Nick likes the most are descriptions of velvet outfits like the ones Queen Philippa wears for her churchings in _Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince_. The purple velvet robe (which is a set of 5 pieces?) embroidered with gold squirrels for 1330, a ghita with the powdered enamel squares and quatrefoils of pearls surrounding them in 1342, and the blue velvet outfit she wore in 1348(trees with lots of details). These outfits keep talking about mantilletum, capa, open super tunic, tunic, hoods and ghitas and I am honestly a bit lost in the vocabulary. These are pretty much all within the timeframe Angharad and Eoghan are in too, which we both definitely are happy about. (He is considering Sargeant's Trials for BAO next season, which means he has been working on persona development.) He also likes the descriptions of bezants-Menoni has a glorious catalog of metalwork, and some of them look like the shapes in the bezant mold in the book. Some could be backed onto leather to look like the square plaque belts, and two others done in a geometric diamond pattern with pearls and/or semi-precious stones. (for example as the pattern on the sideless surcoat or his hood to catch the light) I like the notes in Stanisland's _Embroiderers_ book where she is talking about these outfits as well, but am not certain how much I follow and grasp the concepts. (bezants, pearls, semi-precious stones and creating buttons of the latter two especially) I know these are not everyday outfits being described, but the concept for these outfits will be that they will be our formal dressy stuff for big courts. And I do see that Newton notes the similarities between a lawyer's wife and the outfits worn by the Queen of France and her daughters in here as well. Specifically a higher nobility, but possibly usable, no? I will at least be going to the LA garment district the Monday following Thanksgiving-and will be looking for at least the fabric for the gowns and cotes. Plus going through a few of the on-line stores that have been mentioned in the past. Linings are fairly easy--solid linens, the difficult part will be finding the fashion layers. So fabrics I am considering as the focus of my search are linen for lining, tropical worsted wool, heavier silk, and possibly cotton velvet/velveteen. Darker blue is what he wants to wear, and he is voting for purple/violet as my primary colour. I admit to liking that, since that is my favorite colour, I am just trying to figure out how I could manage colours and the layers mentioned above (at least an undergown, short-sleeved overgown and a sideless). I love all three of these colours and would like to figure out a non-clashing way to wear two of them. Advice? Attendents will get to choose between green and blue for their coloursand we'll be working on GFD's for them. Angharad __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 2 11:34:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h92FY5IO027978 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:34:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92FXG76024566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:33:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92FXGDX014896; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:33:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92FX8DX014794 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:33:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22899 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:56:01 -0500 Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:56:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] image sought In-Reply-To: <000b01c388ee$26ef0b20$9b2da5d1@pavilion> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > I am looking for a particular image of a 15c v neck dress which shows > a short length of lacing just below the v. When I attended Robin's > workshop on the GFD it was in one of the books that was laying around. > A medical health related book perhaps? Would any one be able to > provide the name of this book, (Robin?) and even better, a digital > image. I know of several such images, but I'll need to dig them out. There are some with lacing actually in the V, some with lacing (or a fur-edged slit) that extends below the belt (given that the belt typically covers the line just below the V point), and at least one of a woman being laced into a V-necked dress, before the belt is put on. That last one is in "the Medieval Art of Love," page 150 (Pygmalion story, illustrated I think by Testard). In "The Medieval Book of Seasons," p. 26, is an image of two lovers riding; the woman is in a V-necked dress whose lacing is suggestively loose (both above and below the V-point). There was also a brass on my handout (number 6) that shows the fur-edged V-opening extending below the belt; I use that one in my talk too. If you tell me more about the image you remember, I can try to narrow it down. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 2 11:56:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h92FuvIO028045 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:56:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92Fu476026608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:56:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92Fu2qu003576; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92Ftxqu003489 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:56:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 321791 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 08:55:53 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 09:00:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Angharad's wedding clothing ideas From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20031002152823.44011.qmail@web21402.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 10/2/03 8:28 AM, "Angharad ver' Reynulf" wrote: > First, a tremendous thank you to those who have > offered suggestions and help. Second, apologies to > any who are on more than one of these three lists. > SNIP description of clothing plans.> > I will at least be going to the LA garment district > the Monday following Thanksgiving-and will be looking > for at least the fabric for the gowns and cotes. Plus > going through a few of the on-line stores that have > been mentioned in the past. Linings are fairly > easy--solid linens, the difficult part will be finding > the fashion layers. > > So fabrics I am considering as the focus of my search > are linen for lining, tropical worsted wool, heavier > silk, and possibly cotton velvet/velveteen. Darker > blue is what he wants to wear, and he is voting for > purple/violet as my primary colour. I admit to liking > that, since that is my favorite colour, I am just > trying to figure out how I could manage colours and > the layers mentioned above (at least an undergown, > short-sleeved overgown and a sideless). I love all > three of these colours and would like to figure out a > non-clashing way to wear two of them. Advice? Angharad, when you go to the fashion district, be certain to check out B. Black for that tropical weight wool - they've got the best wools I've found in L.A., and if you're buying lots, the price per yard often goes down. B. Black & Sons are on Los Angeles, about 4(?) blocks up from the fabric district going toward the jewelry district. LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 2 12:47:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h92Gl1IO028735 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:47:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92GkA76001664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:46:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92Gk8qu017257; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:46:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92Gk4qu017192 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:46:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be93.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.147]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 65939262AD2 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:46:03 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002001c38905$42294ab0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:50:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] tv and eycandy X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, This wonderfull short cut film reminds me very much about the great film they made of Molliere. Theatre Solleil's film about the life of Jean Baptiste Molliere. It has a big place in my heart. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 2 13:21:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h92HLDIO028908 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:21:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92HKL76004440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:20:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92HKIXU017702; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:20:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41510.mail.yahoo.com (web41510.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h92HKDXU017534 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:20:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031002172008.28207.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 18:20:08 BST Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:20:08 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] tv ad eye-candy To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <01c401c388f6$2fc444b0$1902a8c0@duncan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- ailith wrote: > Here you are: > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/hpads/everything/tv.html > > Scroll down to National Gallery... Just lovely! > > kate Pfffts, demmit, I just get an internal server error. Nicole *sobs* ===== Cap'n Cat of the good ship 'Harlot' http://www.kipar.org/society/author/pirates/ Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 2 15:14:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h92JEcIO029302 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:14:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92JDU76013813 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:13:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92JDPaU021600; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:13:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pqueuea.post.tele.dk (pqueuea.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92JDLaU021511 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:13:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by pqueuea.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 298B93761B4 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:41:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be93.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.147]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id BD53548017E for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:41:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000d01c38915$735625d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:46:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] Let them eat Cake X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. A friend posted on Lumieres list, that the famous english comics French & Saunders has made a film called Let them eat Cake. It is about 18th century and the costumes, should be great. They are making the most fabolous hairdo's two. It should be quite hillarious As i am a great fan of French and Saunders, i really would like to get my hands on this dvd. But Amazon dont have it. I heard that some got it in Australia. Does any of you know where i could get this goodie? I would be very glad if you could help- Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 2 15:25:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h92JPDIO029353 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:25:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92JOA76014769 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:24:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92JO7aU001688; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:24:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from solomon.io.com (root@solomon.io.com [199.170.88.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92JNxaU001515 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by solomon.io.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h92JNX830186 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:23:38 -0500 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h92JPxvG008275 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:25:59 -0500 Received: from 199.50.29.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:25:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <45480.199.50.29.40.1065122759.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:25:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Let them eat Cake From: "Chiara" To: In-Reply-To: <000d01c38915$735625d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <000d01c38915$735625d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here, try this url: http://www.webwombat.com.au/entertainment/dvds/eatcake.htm or this one http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Let+them+eat+Cake+Movie+%22Jennifer+Saunders%22&btnG=Google+Search > Hi. > A friend posted on Lumieres list, that the famous english comics French > & Saunders has made a film called Let them eat Cake. It is about 18th > century and the costumes, should be great. They are making the most > fabolous hairdo's two. It should be quite hillarious > As i am a great fan of French and Saunders, i really would like to get > my hands on this dvd. > But Amazon dont have it. I heard that some got it in Australia. > Does any of you know where i could get this goodie? > I would be very glad if you could help- > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 2 20:38:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h930c9IO030140 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:38:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h930Wq76008430 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:32:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h930WlH4026630; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:32:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net (turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.126]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h930WhH4026588 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:32:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-50-205.jps.net ([209.165.50.205] helo=pavilion) by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A5DsA-0006VP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:32:42 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01c38946$5ac3c000$cd32a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] image sought Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:36:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO well, not be be greedy, but I woudn't mind images of any and all you have time to come up with as I am just trying to pass on some illustrations to a 15th century re-enactor who has never seen this dress lace up at all. Are you able to scan and post to your web site yet? Even one will do though if you are pressed for time. Thanks, Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] image sought > > On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > > I am looking for a particular image of a 15c v neck dress which shows > > a short length of lacing just below the v. When I attended Robin's > > workshop on the GFD it was in one of the books that was laying around. > > A medical health related book perhaps? Would any one be able to > > provide the name of this book, (Robin?) and even better, a digital > > image. > > I know of several such images, but I'll need to dig them out. There are > some with lacing actually in the V, some with lacing (or a fur-edged slit) > that extends below the belt (given that the belt typically covers the line > just below the V point), and at least one of a woman being laced into a > V-necked dress, before the belt is put on. That last one is in "the > Medieval Art of Love," page 150 (Pygmalion story, illustrated I think by > Testard). In "The Medieval Book of Seasons," p. 26, is an image of two > lovers riding; the woman is in a V-necked dress whose lacing is > suggestively loose (both above and below the V-point). There was also a > brass on my handout (number 6) that shows the fur-edged V-opening > extending below the belt; I use that one in my talk too. > > If you tell me more about the image you remember, I can try to narrow it > down. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 2 21:11:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h931BTIO030208 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:11:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h931AJ76010183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:10:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h931AH4M016554; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:10:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h931AD4M016424 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:10:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.168.2483a54d (25711) for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:09:52 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <168.2483a54d.2cae265f@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:09:51 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Let them eat Cake To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/2/2003 3:24:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, chiara@io.com writes: > http://www.webwombat.com.au/entertainment/dvds/eatcake.htm > > GREAT!!!! I love this girls! Their other DVDs are hysterical too. Their spoof on Dangerous Liaisons is a scream! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 2 21:16:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h931GbIO030223 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:16:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h931Fm76010415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:15:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h931Fl4M019132; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:15:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h931Fi4M019096 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:15:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26304 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:38:39 -0500 Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:38:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] image sought In-Reply-To: <000e01c38946$5ac3c000$cd32a5d1@pavilion> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > Are you able to scan and post to your web site yet? Even one will do > though if you are pressed for time. Sorry, no working scanner at the moment. And many of my images, if not in books, are on slides, not digital. If I have a chance I'll take a spin through some websites and see if I can locate some copies, but I rather have my hands full at the moment. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 2 21:28:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h931SaIO030363 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:28:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h931RH76010879 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:27:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h931RG4M024280; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:27:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h931RE4M024261 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:27:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-52-235.jps.net ([209.165.52.235] helo=pavilion) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A5Eiv-0000gD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 18:27:13 -0700 Message-ID: <000801c3894d$f7c250e0$eb34a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] image sought Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:30:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO no, I can look through websites myself. Thanks for the names of the books though. That's helpful. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] image sought > > On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > > Are you able to scan and post to your web site yet? Even one will do > > though if you are pressed for time. > > Sorry, no working scanner at the moment. And many of my images, if not in > books, are on slides, not digital. If I have a chance I'll take a spin > through some websites and see if I can locate some copies, but I rather > have my hands full at the moment. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 2 23:36:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h933anIO031569 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:36:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h933X876017351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:33:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h933X5bS022659; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:33:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h933WxbS022602 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:32:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A5Gga-00004K-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:32:56 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:33:16 -0700 Message-ID: <003f01c3895f$15d22d60$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <45480.199.50.29.40.1065122759.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h933WxbS022602 Subject: [h-cost] Bjarne, speaking of Australian Costume Movies....was:Let them eat Cake X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, have you seen The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert (1994) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0792843983/103-2379675-5071058 ?v=glance Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 3 01:01:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9351dIO032689 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 01:01:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9350x76021765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:00:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9350vhI003790; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:00:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9350shI003769 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:00:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-53-104.jps.net ([209.165.53.104]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A5I3h-0007Ud-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 01:00:54 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030928094315.03bd0ec8@mail.earthlink.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030928094315.03bd0ec8@mail.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:52:27 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Bumrolls and farthingales -- together or not? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 9:53 AM -0400 9/28/03, Brenda wrote: >Quite possibly, since the bent-rope farthingale will presumably be >not nearly as stiff as a metal, reed, or plastic-tubing hooped >farthingale. Modern adaptation time: I'm looking to decrease the weight of my Elizabethan garb, and have been advised to try the plastic tubing in my farthingale, since it's very light and still fairly stiff. (Currently I'm using the steel strapping that comes wrapped around lumber shipments -- readily available and FREE, but heavy.) So what kind of plastic tubing do I want, and what diameter? The people who recommended it to me didn't know the specifics. For this purpose, I'm willing to use non-historical shortcuts if they don't show, since what I'm trying to do is to get through nine hours in full-dress Elizabethans in the summer heat without becoming so tired that I get sick :( (I'm not neglecting other solutions either, BTW -- part of the plan is for a new gown of lighter-weight wool. Gabardine, washed a couple of times to look less modern, seems to be the best candidate so far -- I have a very nice 13th-century gown in exactly that fabric.) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 3 05:20:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h939KkIO006456 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:20:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h939Js76001243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Oct 2003 03:19:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h939JjkN008619; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 03:19:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h939JfkN008569 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 03:19:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0964.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.197]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05D8CBE706 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 11:19:36 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F7D4039.3040502@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 11:24:09 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] 18th century dress question/ Pirates of the Caribbean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I am planning to make an Elisabeth Swan dress for a Fantasy Fair, since my husband wants to go as Jack Sparrow. But I cant seem to determine what I want to make. I don't want to recreate a dress from the movie but rather a dress from that period. But as in most costume movies the costumes are a mixture of differen styles. 18th century is not my period. I want a dress so that people who have seen the movie would say "Hey that is Elisabeth!". http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Pirates/POTC.html Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 3 07:08:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h93B88IO006653 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:08:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93B7D76005001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:07:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93B7ASn018188; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:07:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93B76Sn018165 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:07:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p147-nas10.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.212.147] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A5Nm3-0005hU-00; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 23:07:04 +1200 Message-ID: <006701c3899e$73c38f60$93d4adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] image sought Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 23:06:52 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > That last one is in "the > Medieval Art of Love," page 150 (Pygmalion story, illustrated I think by > Testard). But that dress is sort of a mix of the kirtle and outergown, as the neckline is like an outer gown but it has short sleeves, and her shift sleeves can be seen (crumpled grey-white looks like every other shift sleeve I've seen depicted in illuminations at this time.) Any idea how allegorical this dress is supposed to be? The dress is also quite fitted through the body, like some other gowns I've seen as they are not all extremely full from the belt down. There is a train to the skirt and it has a border of a differnt colour to the dress, which is atypical of kirtles (self coloured "flounce" usually) and more typical for a gown... I just find the image really interesting and odd. Thank you for mentioning the image, it's given me somehting to ponder. BTW I have this book on hand I can take a photo of it so others can see (I find the res to be much better than my scanner which is actually hooked up to another computor;) ) I did come across a few images that show lacing both under and with the over gown (as in the V gown not the open gown I was focused on). Some clearly were the kirtle (as there was a sheer parlet over the lacing) and other times it appeared to be the gown (lacing uner the lacing.) I have them all made for a web page so if anyone was interested I'd put the Testard (who happens to be one of my favourite artists) image up with the other interesting lacing things. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 3 08:32:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h93CWRIO006795 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:32:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93CVF76008295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Oct 2003 06:31:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93CVCIO018837; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 06:31:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h93CV7IO018758 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 06:31:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCtPm8cPEG1zPzfPK6QShDFcgyKVem+q2iw==">; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 05:30:37 PDT Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JBKMWJUF; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 05:30:37 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:29:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Bumrolls and farthingales -- together or not? Message-ID: <20031003.072906.-442891.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-11,31-35 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:52:27 -0700 Chris Laning writes: > > For this purpose, I'm willing to use non-historical shortcuts if > they don't show, since what I'm trying to do is to get through nine hours > in full-dress Elizabethans in the summer heat without becoming so > tired that I get sick :( > > (I'm not neglecting other solutions either, BTW -- (snip) I'm going to jump in here and recommend something that's not directly costume related. I've been doing Bristol Faire here in the MidWest since 1989, most of it in full Court Elizabethans. I've seen alot of people suit up for the run of the Faire. I've also seen lots of people go down from the heat. One of the things that seems to make a huge difference is how good a physical condition the person is in. If you are concerned about making it thru a Faire day, I'd say start a conditioning program now. Unless you are bed-ridden, you can begin with just an energetic walk around the block and slowly work up from there. Also, spend time in non-air-conditioned environments, preferably doing some form of activity. RenFaires are the costuming equivalent of running a marathon- you wouldn't go out one day and just decide to run 26.2 miles now would you? You wouldn't think "Running a marathon will be hard, I'd better make sure my clothing is light but I'm not going to actively train for it" would you? Also, if you smoke- start cutting back. It's your choice whether to smoke or not, but the smokers in my Guild have alot more trouble with the heat and exhaustion than the non-smokers. In all seriousness, making your costume a few ounces lighter may help a little bit, but in the long run, being in better physical shape will do more towards making the Faire not just survivable, but enjoyable. Just my tuppence as a gizzled old Faire vet, Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 3 10:13:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h93EDGIO007060 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:13:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93ECR76014244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:12:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93ECQH3006008; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:12:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93ECLH3005956 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:12:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bea3.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.163]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 48FC6480077 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 16:12:20 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002201c389b8$633a78b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <168.2483a54d.2cae265f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Let them eat Cake Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 16:12:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Albertcat. Their spoof on Dangerous Liaisons? Is that another film they have made? Then i have to get my hands in that one two, what is it called? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 3:09 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Let them eat Cake > In a message dated 10/2/2003 3:24:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, chiara@io.com > writes: > > > http://www.webwombat.com.au/entertainment/dvds/eatcake.htm > > > > > > GREAT!!!! I love this girls! Their other DVDs are hysterical too. Their spoof > on Dangerous Liaisons is a scream! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 3 10:14:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h93EEIIO007064 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:14:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93EDO76014297 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:13:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93EDOH3007072; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:13:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93EDLH3007030 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:13:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bea3.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.163]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7FB50262A0A for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 16:13:20 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002c01c389b8$87b54ee0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003f01c3895f$15d22d60$6501a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne, speaking of Australian Costume Movies....was:Let them eatCake Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 16:13:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Saragrace, Yes i did see that. It was quite funny and sad two. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 5:33 AM Subject: [h-cost] Bjarne, speaking of Australian Costume Movies....was:Let them eatCake > Bjarne, have you seen The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert > (1994) > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0792843983/103-2379675-5071058 > ?v=glance > > Sg > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 3 10:17:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h93EHcIO007070 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:17:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93EGu76014706 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:16:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93EGstk009549; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:16:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93EGmtk009435 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:16:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bea3.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.163]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D4D175EE24F for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 16:16:45 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003401c389b9$023e0580$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F7D4039.3040502@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century dress question/ Pirates of the Caribbean Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 16:16:59 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Deredere. I have not seen that movie yeat, so i cant speak or help from it. But what about a beautifull silk corset ( like the one Nicole has) in a vivid colour and then a chemise under it. Then you just need a skirt and a small bumroll. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "H-Costume" Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 11:24 AM Subject: [h-cost] 18th century dress question/ Pirates of the Caribbean > Hi, > > I am planning to make an Elisabeth Swan dress for a Fantasy Fair, since > my husband wants to go as Jack Sparrow. > But I cant seem to determine what I want to make. I don't want to > recreate a dress from the movie but rather a dress from that period. > But as in most costume movies the costumes are a mixture of differen > styles. 18th century is not my period. > I want a dress so that people who have seen the movie would say "Hey > that is Elisabeth!". > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Pirates/POTC.html > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 3 10:21:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h93ELMIO007076 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:21:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93EKe76015927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:20:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93EKdtk012742; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:20:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41503.mail.yahoo.com (web41503.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h93EKatk012639 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:20:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031003142031.26944.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41503.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 15:20:31 BST Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:20:31 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century dress question/ Pirates of the Caribbean To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F7D4039.3040502@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Hi, > > I am planning to make an Elisabeth Swan dress for a Fantasy Fair, since > my husband wants to go as Jack Sparrow. > But I cant seem to determine what I want to make. I don't want to > recreate a dress from the movie but rather a dress from that period. > But as in most costume movies the costumes are a mixture of differen > styles. 18th century is not my period. > I want a dress so that people who have seen the movie would say "Hey > that is Elisabeth!". > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Pirates/POTC.html Deredere, this is the best list for PotC costumes: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/potccostuming/ The other two are pretty quiet. personally I think if you made something like the peach dress that would be most recognisable. Nicole ===== Cap'n Cat of the good ship 'Harlot' http://www.kipar.org/society/author/pirates/ Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 3 10:52:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h93EqIIO007139 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:52:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93EpJ76020122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:51:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93EnRtk006722; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:50:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93Emhtk006235 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:48:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1d0.11d2a7fa (16633) for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:48:19 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1d0.11d2a7fa.2caee632@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:48:18 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Let them eat Cake To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/3/2003 10:13:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > Their spoof on Dangerous Liaisons? Is that another film they have made? > No. Just a skit from their TV show. I can't remember which DVD it's on. "Gentlemen Prefer French & Saunders" I think. [There're also spoofs of "Thelma & Louise", "Silence of the Lambs", "Gone with the Wind", "Misery"....and on and on.] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 3 11:47:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h93Fl9IO007797 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 11:47:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93EsB76020399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:54:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93Erl24009976; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:54:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93Eoktk007374 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.129.325b0979 (16633) for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:50:10 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <129.325b0979.2caee6a2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:50:10 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century dress question/ Pirates of the Caribbean To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey, they don't look too all over the century to me. Not bad costumes at all. Who is the designer of the film? [I won't go see it until it's out on DVD] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 3 22:43:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h942h8IO012192 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 22:43:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h942gJ76025547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:42:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h942gCFk025235; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:42:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h942g9Fk025213 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:42:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-34-045.jps.net ([209.165.34.45] helo=pavilion) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A5cMy-0006KM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 19:42:08 -0700 Message-ID: <000901c38a21$9ad65f00$2d22a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 19:45:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Another suspect shoe belonging to Mary Queen of Scots X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h942h8IO012192 Status: RO Okay, now this is getting interesting.......... because I would have to agree that Abbey shoe of Mary Queen of Scots seems to be from a later period, I decided to remove the image, after all, I am wanting to provide accurate information to site visitors. A couple days after removing the image, I decided to to a search on google and see if my page still came up with "shoe Mary Queen of Scots" as the keywords, it didn't but another shoe that also looks like it is from a later time period popped up. See http://www.marie-stuart.co.uk/objects.htm The text next to it states "One of Mary's possessions which can be seen at Traquair House (see places to visit in this site). The shoe is remarkably small for such a tall woman. Traquair House has confirmed that this shoe as well as two other items, were donated by a lady who had always held the items in her family for generations. Her connections were with Mary Seton, a lady-in-waiting to Mary Queen of Scots." So, a similar story....... What does everyone think of the shoe on this site? Early 18th century too? Apparently Mary Queen of Scots was about six feet tall, from another website, I don't know how accurate the info is though. now I'm puzzled about this even more........ I wonder if there are any more? Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 3 23:41:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h943f5IO012330 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 23:41:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h943e976028044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Oct 2003 21:40:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h943e6Kb019087; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 21:40:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h943e0Kb019030 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 21:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.111] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AFF4D1300EC; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 23:35:16 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c38a29$c3c27860$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 23:44:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] Fw: [Lit-Ideas] Umbrellas X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's something you folks might enjoy, forwarded by permission from another list. Lloyd Mitchell ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Ritchie" From swords to...umbrellas. If anyone has anything to say on the subject, any literary or other cultural references that may help with my current investigation, please feel free. Here are some notes, a sketch of what I have so far. At beginning of the nineteenth century the Duke of Wellington scribbled a note asking that his officers desist; they had taken to opening umbrellas on the battlefield, when the enemy shot at them. In 1870, when he came to dictate his memoirs while en route to treat with Red Cloud at Fort Laramie, Colonel Robert Campbell of St. Louis, thought worth recording a visit by Indians to St. Louis, back in 1825. "The Indians all bought umbrellas and walked in Indian file, bare headed with the umbrellas spread over them, making a ludicrous appearance. The first thing they had done on reaching town was to buy up all the red umbrellas." Their inspiration may have been Giacomo Costantino Beltrami who in 1823 (I quote from the dust jacket of a book), "With no experience whatever, with no scientific instruments, with no military escort and wholly at his own expense, ... conducted a fantastic one-man expedition on the American frontier. He ventured into unknown territory with confidence and boldness, and the red umbrella that formed part of his baggage not only sheltered his supplies from the elements, but served as a passport to safety among Sioux and Chippewa Indians that he encountered on his quest." He had been in Napoleon's army. Here's what my Brittanica says on the subject, ³Umbrella² (ombrella, Ital. dim. from Lat. umbra, shade) started out as a provider of shade. In Eastern countries from the earliest times the umbrella was one of the insignia of royalty and power. On the sculptured remains of ancient Nineveh and Egypt there are representations of kings and sometimes of lesser potentates going in procession with an umbrella carried over their heads; and throughout Asia the umbrella had, and still has something of the same significance. The Mahratta princes of India had among their titles, 'lord of the umbrella.' In 1855 the king of Burma in addressing the governor-general of India termed himself 'the monarch who reigns over the great umbrella-wearing chiefs of the Eastern countries.' The baldachins erected over ecclesiastical chairs, altars and portals, and the canopies of thrones and pulpits, etc. are in their origin closely related to umbrellas, and have the same symbolic significance. In each of the basilican churches of Rome there still hangs a large umbrella. "Among the Greeks and Romans the umbrella was used by ladies, while the carrying of it by men was regarded as a sign of effiminacy. Porbably in these southern climes it ner went out of use, and allusions by Montaigne show that in his day its employment as a sunshade was quite common in Italy. The umbrella was not unknown in England in the 17th century, and was already used as a rain protector. Michael Drayton, writing about the beginning of the seventeenth century, says, speaking of doves:-- And like umbrellas, with their feathers Shield you in all sorts of weathers. "Although it was the practice to keep an umbrella in the coffee-houses early in the 18th century, its use cannot have been very familiar, for in 1752 Colonel Wolfe, writing from Paris, mentions the carrying of them there as a defence against both rain and sun, and wonders that they are not introduced into England. The traveller Jonas Hanway, who died in 1786, is credited with having been the first Englishman who habitually carried an umbrella. "The umbrella, as at first used, was based on its Eastern prototype, and was a heavy, ungainly article which did not hold well together. It had a long handle, with ribs of whalebone or cane, very rarely of metal, and stretchers of cane. The jointing of the ribs and stretchers to the stick and to each other was very rough and imperfect. The covering material consisted of oiled silk or cotton, heavy in substance, and liable to stick together in the folds. Gingham soon came to be substituted for the oiled cloth, and in 1848 William Sangster patented the use of alpaca as an umbrella covering material. One of the most notable inventions for combinging lightness, strength and elasticity in the ribs of umbrellas was the ³Paragon² rib patented by Samuel Fox in 1852. It is formed of a thin strip of steel rolled into a U or trough section, a form which gives great strength for the weight of metal. Umbrella silk is chiefly made at Lyons and Crefeld; much of it is so loaded that it cuts readily at the folds. Textures of pure silk or of silk and alpaca miexd have better wear-resisting properties.² (1926 ed.) No relationship between Umbrians and Umbrella. Shadowy people? I find all this quite fascinating, and wonder whether when my students insist--despite the fact that we live in a city that is famous for its rain-- on not carrying umbrellas, they are worried by some distant echo of effeminacy charges. Perhaps they don't want to appear too regal? When asked, they say only that umbrellas are not cool. Maybe I should try to sell them red ones, made of alpaca and silk. David Ritchie Portland, Oregon --^---------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: rmitchell@washjeff.edu EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1donX.b4hBay.cm1pdGNo Or send an email to: lit-ideas-unsubscribe@topica.com TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^---------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 4 14:46:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h94IkaIO022003 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 14:46:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h94Ijj76000452 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Oct 2003 12:45:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h94IjgQM016570; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 12:45:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h94IjeQM016537 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 12:45:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1A5qQM-000BmV-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 18:42:35 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:01:28 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century dress question/ Pirates of the Caribbean References: <129.325b0979.2caee6a2@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <129.325b0979.2caee6a2@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I didn't think any of the dresses was a Robe a la Francais - I thought they were all fitted in to the waist. It's not really my period, but I didn't see anything that jarred - except her chemise (which she runs about it quite a lot), which looked a bit GFD and was laced down the outside of the arms! But I can recognise the theatrical necessity of having something tight and opaque that she could run and climb and swim in without being indecent. All the rest was lovely - wonderful film! Jean AlbertCat@aol.com wrote >Hey, they don't look too all over the century to me. Not bad costumes at all. >Who is the designer of the film? [I won't go see it until it's out on DVD] >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 4 16:18:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h94KIdIO022271 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 16:18:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h94KHs76004089 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Oct 2003 14:17:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h94KHqf6023512; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 14:17:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h94KHlf6023482 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 14:17:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.112]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 082052F8CE for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 13:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 13:17:45 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Let them eat Cake Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <1d0.11d2a7fa.2caee632@aol.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ooooh these sound great. Why doesn't Netflix have them yet, drat it?!? On Friday, October 3, 2003, at 07:48 AM, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/3/2003 10:13:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > >> Their spoof on Dangerous Liaisons? Is that another film they have >> made? >> > > No. Just a skit from their TV show. I can't remember which DVD it's on. > "Gentlemen Prefer French & Saunders" I think. [There're also spoofs of > "Thelma & > Louise", "Silence of the Lambs", "Gone with the Wind", "Misery"....and > on and > on.] > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 4 16:56:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h94KubIO022396 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 16:56:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h94Kts76006817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Oct 2003 14:55:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h94Ktopg011763; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 14:55:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h94Ktjpg011686 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 14:55:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.112]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A7592F8D4 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 13:59:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 13:55:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: enlarging patterns/pattern paper/calculations Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <1885E024-F6AD-11D7-A665-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Medical exam paper isn't as thick as art paper, but it's very very cheap. On Monday, September 29, 2003, at 06:50 PM, A.Thurman wrote: > I'm listening, Albert! I'm listening to all of you, and saving these > emails. You've all offered some very good suggestions! > > Right now I'm busily looking for a free/cheap paper source due to > economic considerations. I'm sure my local art store does have paper > if nothing else pans out. > > Then what I'm going to do is apply Albert's math to the pattern and > see what I can do. It is a *very* simple pattern, mostly perpendicular > straight lines with a curved edge. It is a cape, so no sleeves, > armholes etc. to worry with. If I can get one of my measurements to > coordinate with one of the pattern measurements, it should be a good > start (crosses fingers). > > Thank you all! > > Allison T. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 4 19:40:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h94NecIO022918 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 19:40:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h94NdA76013931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Oct 2003 17:39:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h94Nd6Q1019455; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 17:39:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h94Nd1Q1019404 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 17:39:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.112]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6A542F913 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 16:42:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 16:38:59 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: enlarging patterns/pattern paper/calculations Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, that's the stuff I use! You can get it even cheaper if you buy it by the case, and have folks to split it with. On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 09:10 AM, Lynn Downward wrote: > I buy rolls of the paper that covers the examination tables in medical > offices - $9 for a roll of about 100 yards. It's sturdier than wrapping > tissue but the widest it comes is 20". The medical supplies store I > go to > has two types; one works better than the other. > > LynnD > > > On 9/30/03 7:57 PM, "Heather Rose Jones" > > wrote: > >> At 1:56 PM -0400 9/30/03, wrote: >>>> >>>> Right now I'm busily looking for a free/cheap paper source due to >>> economic considerations. I'm sure my local art store does have paper >>> if >>> nothing else pans out. >>>> >>> >>> When I need large semi-transparent paper on a pattern-by-pattern >>> basis, I use paper tablecloths from the party section of discount >>> stores. >> >> I once found a roll of paper tablecloth that even had an embossed >> pattern of one-inch squares! >> >> Heather > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 02:58:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h956woIO024100 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 02:58:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h956uq76001317 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 00:56:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h956ujcn000912; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 00:56:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80106.mail.yahoo.com (web80106.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.79]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h956uhcn000900 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 00:56:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031005065643.62954.qmail@web80106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.114.229.225] by web80106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 23:56:43 PDT Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 23:56:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Jennifer Fleury To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200310041801.h94I1kQN027998@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] re: umbrellas X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From "Elizabethan Pageantry" by H.K. Morse: "...many of them doe carry other fine things (than fans) of a far greater price, that will cost, at the least a duckat, which they commonly call in the Italian tongue umbrellaes, that is, things that minister shadow unto them for shelter against the scorching heate of the sunne. These are made of leather, something answerable to the forme of a little cannopy, and hooped in the inside with divers little wooden hoopes that extend the umbrella in a pretty large compasse. They are used especially by horsemen, who carry them in their hands when they ride, fastning the end of the handle upone one of their thighes, and they impart so large a shadow unto them, that it keepeth the heate of the sunne from the upper parts of their bodies".... Crudites [I have not been able to confirm a date on this entry-} >From the same source- "an umbrello of perfumed leather with a gould fryndge abouwte yt which I broughte out of Italie" (Will of R. Toft, 1618, Fairholt) The will of course was made in the 17th century, but the dating of this "umbrello"'s entry into England is not recorded. Doesn't it seem like a leather umbrella with wooden hoops would be heavy?? But then, having done full Elizabethan Nobles in 104 degree Southern California, what price shade? Any price! Too bad the confirmable dates are alas too late. There is also a reference in the dubious Norris regarding Mary Queen of Scots carrying an umbrella of sorts, but then again, perhaps it went with her 18th century shoes! Jennifer Fleury Guild Master 2003-2004 The Guild of St. Augustine www.guildofstaugustine.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 03:09:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9579KIO024116 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 03:09:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9578Y76001585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 01:08:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9578Xcn004428; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 01:08:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from neit3.vosn.net (neit3.vosn.net [209.151.87.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9578Vco004418 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 01:08:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-66-74-169-21.socal.rr.com ([66.74.169.21] helo=master) by neit3.vosn.net with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1A630H-0007LP-5O for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 03:08:29 -0400 From: "Mildred" To: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 00:08:32 -0700 Message-ID: <000801c38b0f$7de66f90$0100a8c0@master> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - neit3.vosn.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - mail.indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - thebartholomews.com Subject: [h-cost] shopping in NYC? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm going to NYC the first week of November. I'm looking for two kinds of shopping 1. fabric and notions that I cannot get in Los Angeles 2. large-size women's clothing stores Can anyone help? Many thanks, Luanne Bartholomew _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 03:25:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h957P4IO024146 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 03:25:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h957OU76002012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 01:24:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h957OTcn009216; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 01:24:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h957OQcn009186 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 01:24:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.117.29b7b5fc (3972) for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 03:24:18 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <117.29b7b5fc.2cb12122@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 03:24:18 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in NYC? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/5/2003 3:09:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, mildred@thebartholomews.com writes: 1. fabric and notions that I cannot get in Los Angeles 2. large-size women's clothing stores Well, let's see. I'm not entirely sure what you can get in LA, being that I REALLY want to go there for the garment district! However! At 355 Broadway, there's P&S Fabrics, which I like because the fabric-cutter knows me (and always has a special deal). They have a pretty nice apparel section, but the best is their home-dec section. Brocades, basics, sheers... Yummy stuff, basically. I have a lovely piece of brocade that I haven't used yet, but simply had to have. Large-sized women's stores. That partially depends on what type of clothing you're looking for. If you'd like professional-type clothing (i.e. business suits), tell me and I'll ask my mother- she's the guru of that, knows all the nice places in the city, especially ones that are discounted. Like Foreman's and Century 21. She doesn't shop at Foreman's much anymore because she's retiring. But she still knows lots of good places. Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 09:21:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h95DL8IO006350 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:21:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95DKM76013804 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 07:20:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95DKKLX024885; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 07:20:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f93.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95DKHLX024830 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 07:20:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 06:20:11 -0700 Received: from 66.74.19.94 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 13:20:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.74.19.94] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 13:20:11 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Oct 2003 13:20:11.0709 (UTC) FILETIME=[67CD66D0:01C38B43] Subject: [h-cost] Re:Umbrellas X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I find this extremely interesting. Thanks for posting! Your comment regarding your students, in Porland, was personally very interesting as well. I grew up in a North Western Washington city called Bellingham where, like Portland, rain is an extremely common occurance. All the years that I lived there, no one in my family ever owned an umbrella. In fact, we laughed at people who used them. It was a sure sign that they were from out of town - usually from California. In my life I have owned one umbrella. I was about 6 years old. It was red with white pockadots. It was my Annie umbrella. But even then, it was a toy to be used when I played dress up. I don't think a drop of rain ever touched it's beautiful red fabric! Now that I'm away from home - living in Southern California - I still would not dream of owning an umbrella. Granted, it rains a whole lot less in Sunny San Diego but people here are very concerned that they have their umbrella with them if it looks like the tiniest chance of rain. I guess that in my head it's a futile attempt to get away from nature. It's a sign that I can't deal with something as natural and normal as rain. I also love the feeling of rain falling on my head. My curls start to frizz and the layers of So-Cal dust start to crack and fall off. The old Jessica peaks out and curls her toes. I feel energized by the rain. It's a new beginning - a bath for the world. My husband, who was born and raised in the So-Cal deserts lived in WA for a few years. We met up there and our courtship primarily took place dripping wet. We both have the same contempt for umbrellas. I think his was learned in his time there. It may be as simple as the old addage of "It's just not cool." But I'm not really sure if there is not more to it then that... :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ Get McAfee virus scanning and cleaning of incoming attachments. Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 11:09:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h95F9nIO006910 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:09:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95F8376018935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:08:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95F7Y4t002484; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:07:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95F7V4t002423 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:07:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-44-034.jps.net ([209.165.44.34] helo=pavilion) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A6ATq-0004qf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 08:07:30 -0700 Message-ID: <003501c38b52$e9a9bbe0$222ca5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031005065643.62954.qmail@web80106.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: umbrellas Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 08:11:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO H.K. Morse's bibliography lists Thomas Coryat's "Crudities" edition of 1611. I will be adding Morse's bibliography to my site to go with the glossary but I have been distracted by the discovery of the Early English Books Online database this last month. What a find that is! It's just filled with period books from custom rates for clothing (as well as a book on custom rates for sins - the price of indulgences) books on cosmetics, juggling, the discovery of the telescope etc., etc...... I've downloaded quite a few and will be webbing quite a few in the months to come. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com > > >From "Elizabethan Pageantry" by H.K. Morse: > > "...many of them doe carry other fine things (than fans) of a far greater price, that will cost, at the least a duckat, which they commonly call in the Italian tongue umbrellaes, that is, things that minister shadow unto them for shelter against the scorching heate of the sunne. These are made of leather, something answerable to the forme of a little cannopy, and hooped in the inside with divers little wooden hoopes that extend the umbrella in a pretty large compasse. They are used especially by horsemen, who carry them in their hands when they ride, fastning the end of the handle upone one of their thighes, and they impart so large a shadow unto them, that it keepeth the heate of the sunne from the upper parts of their bodies".... Crudites > > [I have not been able to confirm a date on this entry-} > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 11:12:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h95FCuIO006928 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:12:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95FAp76019062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:10:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95FAp4t003587; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:10:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net (turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.126]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95FAn4t003580 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:10:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A6AX2-0002QP-00; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 08:10:48 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: , , Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 08:11:15 -0700 Message-ID: <000801c38b52$ec47bf50$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h95FAn4t003580 Subject: [h-cost] Circle skirts... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry about the cross posts..... Well we finally got to the point of doing skirts in our Flemish class Friday. To do organ pipe pleats (OPP), or modified OPP, it is easier to work with a circular skirt. We were contemplating the drape of skirts which appear to only have a few pleats towards the center back. I must credit Heather for pointing out that they do not appear to be full circle skirts. Our discussions led us to question whether or not folks would have had the math skills to do all the calculations associated with less than full skirts (i.e. 1/4, 1/2, 3/4). At Heathers suggestion I created 1/4 scale skirts of 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full circles. I will also be cutting them on various grainlines as that also affects the drape considerably. We have decided to use them to illustrate the draping differences we observed. So when I finally get to the organ pipe pleating document, we will include these observations as well. Sooooo finally, my discussions point or question is this....what are your observations and research telling you about the use of circle skirts. We know that at least some of the Waffenrocks were cut in truncated triangles which eventually led to a circular skirt and that some of the patterns in Juan Algacea's patterns are at least modified circles. We discussed that a dressmaker would probably have the skills, but what about the middle classes? Thanks, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 11:48:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h95FmoIO007480 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:48:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95Flx76020694 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:47:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95Flw4t016512; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:47:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h95Flt4t016466 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:47:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OvNzc7wRtdxW8tZkWL/wTsA=">; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 08:47:12 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JBQ5XXFQ; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 08:47:12 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 08:31:05 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: umbrellas Message-ID: <20031005.084644.472.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Might you have the URL for this? Thanks, Arlys Early English Books Online database this last month. > Lisa Sinervo > www.thrednedlestrete.com ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 12:42:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h95GgwIO007987 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:42:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95GgA76022950 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:42:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95Gg831005390; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:42:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95Gg531005357 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:42:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7B64425D0 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:44:40 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3F8049C7.7080503@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 11:41:43 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Circle skirts... References: <000801c38b52$ec47bf50$6501a8c0@SG01> In-Reply-To: <000801c38b52$ec47bf50$6501a8c0@SG01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: We discussed that a > dressmaker would probably have the skills, but what about the middle > classes? I think I was about 7 when I figured out circle skirts for my dolls. I may not have understood the math behind it, but I got the concepts involved in making full-circle and half-circle skirts. I don't think you have to be terribly well educated to be able to learn and construct simple clothing, as long as you are willing and have someone show you the basics. It's very easy to copy a pattern idea and still not understand why it works. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 13:18:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h95HIXIO008172 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:18:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95HHx76024472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:17:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95HHwBI017807; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:17:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95HHtBI017788 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:17:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-52-039.jps.net ([209.165.52.39] helo=pavilion) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A6CW2-0001wj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 10:17:54 -0700 Message-ID: <000701c38b65$2074f740$2734a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031005.084644.472.1.Cley@juno.com> Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:21:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] EEBO X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Early English Books Online is a subscription only service found typically at large libraries. The books are out of copyright but there is a licensing agreement involved in using the service (of course) which says the books are not for republication but for research only. If you are needing some book for research purposes and can't get access to the service, you are welcome to email me at Lisa@Thrednedlestrete.com and I'll do what I can to assist. I wish the copyright laws were more clear because there is debate about using licensing agreements to create essentially a copyright where none indeed exists, but due to my own personal financial limitations, I don't wish to be the case that goes to court to get a final ruling on the situation. Plus, the EEBO is an excellent service and needs subscription fees to keep running and improving. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia J Ley" To: Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: umbrellas > Might you have the URL for this? > > Thanks, > Arlys > > Early English Books Online database this last month. > > Lisa Sinervo > > www.thrednedlestrete.com > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 13:26:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h95HQcIO008302 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:26:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95HPw76024855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:25:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95HPvBI020690; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:25:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95HPsBI020674 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:25:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.172.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.172] helo=4gxif) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A6Cdl-0002Yr-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 13:25:54 -0400 Message-ID: <01e001c38b65$b45da6a0$acf74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031005.084644.472.1.Cley@juno.com> Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:25:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] Was "umbrellas" now EEBO X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Early English Books On-Line can be found here: http://wwwlib.umi.com/eebo/ However, without an authorized sign-in, you can only sample it (BIG samples, however). Click on "Featured Content-Free" and browse the lists on the page- you can see many pages and images per item of each of the "100 Best" lists and get some other free content. I crawled through the help screens and found this e-mail address: pqsales@il.proquest.com as a contact for further info about EEBO. This looks like the best bet for finding out how to get an authorized sign-in. I'll post again if I find some additional info. Enjoy what's there, -Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 13:59:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h95HxBIO008533 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:59:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95HwP76026712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:58:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95HwNdQ003998; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:58:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41503.mail.yahoo.com (web41503.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h95HwLdQ003966 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:58:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031005175816.87372.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41503.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 18:58:16 BST Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 18:58:16 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] EEBO To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000701c38b65$2074f740$2734a5d1@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, sure, and the subscription fees are three thousand pounds sterling that a tiny History department like mine can't afford!!!! So much for information being available for research. *unhappy snort* I rely on them, and now I don't know how the heck to get to the resources I need. I research part-time, I can't soend weeks in the British Library, nor can my supervisors. Nicole - not happy coz EEBO is the bets resource ever... theoretically! --- Lisa Sinervo wrote: > Early English Books Online is a subscription only service found typically at > large libraries. The books are out of copyright but there is a licensing > agreement involved in using the service (of course) which says the books are > not for republication but for research only. If you are needing some book > for research purposes and can't get access to the service, you are welcome > to email me at Lisa@Thrednedlestrete.com and I'll do what I can to assist. > I wish the copyright laws were more clear because there is debate about > using licensing agreements to create essentially a copyright where none > indeed exists, but due to my own personal financial limitations, I don't > wish to be the case that goes to court to get a final ruling on the > situation. Plus, the EEBO is an excellent service and needs subscription > fees to keep running and improving. > > Lisa > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cynthia J Ley" > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 8:31 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: umbrellas > > > > Might you have the URL for this? > > > > Thanks, > > Arlys > > > > Early English Books Online database this last month. > > > Lisa Sinervo > > > www.thrednedlestrete.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Cap'n Cat of the good ship 'Harlot' http://www.kipar.org/society/author/pirates/ Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 15:26:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h95JQAIO009259 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:26:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95JPT76001045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:25:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95JPRKq009051; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:25:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95JPOKq008993 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:25:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessica.webwarren.com (bgp380694bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.16.142]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by webwarren.com (8.12.9/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h95JPHYi023696 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:25:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20031005143352.04408f10@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: arachne@pop.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 15:24:47 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in NYC? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Christine responds to Mildred: >>1. fabric and notions that I cannot get in Los Angeles >>2. large-size women's clothing stores >At 355 Broadway, there's P&S Fabrics, which I like because the >fabric-cutter knows me (and always has a special deal). That sounds like it's just north of City Hall... unless Christine missed a digit somewhere (3500 Bway should be near the Garment District.) >They have a pretty nice apparel section, but the best is their home-dec >section. Brocades, basics, sheers... Yummy stuff, basically. I have a >lovely piece of brocade that I >haven't used yet, but simply had to have. I just did a little bit of browsing (and for me, a lot of buying) in the Garment District yesterday afternoon (yes, Saturday! Boy, was I surprised -- but it looks like a lot of the stores of the type that *used* to be owned primarily by Orthodox Jews are now owned by Indian immigrants). Essentially, I just browsed a bit on 8th Avenue walking towards Penn Station, but I saw a place open on 39th just in from the corner, and ended up buying some linen and some wool there. I didn't go into, but have to check out, a store on 8th Avenue that I think was between 37th and 38th: through the window you could see bolts of velvets with lots of intricate gold- and silver-toned embroidery. I didn't go in because by then I was carrying two large shopping bags of fabric, plus a bag of goodies from the event I'd been to earlier that day (_SELF_ Magazine's "Workout in the Park" -- which I heartily suggest to *everyone* who lives in a city that it comes to!). I want a closer look! The Garment District in general extends from about 36th-40th Streets north-and-south, between Broadway and 8th Avenue east-and-west, but there are stores in the blocks just outside that area as well. Most of the traditional Garment District stores have been wholesale only, but it looks like more of them are dealing retail than used to be. You will also want to check out trimmings and millinery supplies. While some notion and trim suppliers can be found amongst the Garment District stores, there are a few in the Millinery district just to the east of the Garment District (about 35th-39th Streets, between 5th Avenue and Avenue of the Americas (aka 6th Ave.)). M & J trimmings is there, there are a couple of millinery-supply houses, and -- if they are still around -- Cinderella (bridal trims, millinery, and jewelry/hair supplies) on 36th St. and Sheru (beads, beads, more beads, trims, buttons, and more) on 38th St. And you may want to check out the Lower East Side (Delancy St. on the F train). Most of the fabric vendors have moved out of that area years ago, but you may still be able to find a bargain. Hope this helps! Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 16:09:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h95K9pIO009387 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:09:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95K9A76002772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:09:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95K98A1024255; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:09:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav49.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95K97A1024207 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:09:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:09:01 -0700 Received: from 24.200.112.178 by bay9-dav49.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:09:01 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.112.178] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Umbrellas Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:10:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Oct 2003 20:09:01.0880 (UTC) FILETIME=[84EC7380:01C38B7C] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I guess that in my head it's a futile attempt to get away from nature. It's > a sign that I can't deal with something as natural and normal as rain. I > also love the feeling of rain falling on my head. My curls start to frizz > and the layers of So-Cal dust start to crack and fall off. The old Jessica > peaks out and curls her toes. I feel energized by the rain. It's a new > beginning - a bath for the world. I like rain -- in the summer! Yesterday it was raining, but it was also 12 degrees Celsius outside. If I'd been outside for any length of time, believe me, I would have had an umbrella with me. Or at least something waterproof to put on my head, and an umbrella is much less silly-looking than a plastic cap. The feeling of cold rain on your scalp, especially when it's already cold outside, is not fun. To me it's more a question of comfort than looks... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 16:20:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h95KKEIO009407 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:20:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95KJN76003256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:19:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95KJMA1027727; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:19:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95KJIA2027673 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:19:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-137.sonic.net [209.148.112.137]) (authenticated bits=0)h95KJCXN023724 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:19:12 -0700 Message-ID: <3F807D5C.7040302@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 13:21:48 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] EEBO References: <20031005175816.87372.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031005175816.87372.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >my supervisors. > >Nicole - not happy coz EEBO is the bets resource ever... theoretically! > > --- Lisa Sinervo wrote: > Early English Books >Online is a subscription only service found typically at > > >>large libraries. The books are out of copyright but there is a licensing >>agreement involved in using the service (of course) which says the books are >>not for republication but for research only. If you are needing some book >>for research purposes and can't get access to the service, you are welcome >>to email me at Lisa@Thrednedlestrete.com and I'll do what I can to assist. >>I wish the copyright laws were more clear because there is debate about >>using licensing agreements to create essentially a copyright where none >>indeed exists, >> See _The Public Domain_ (pages 12/17-18), in the section "Is the Database Protected by Means Other than by Copyright?", where it says, "if you sign a licensing agreement [as to how you will use the database], you must be aware that the owner of a database can sue you if you violate the license." You might win; you might lose. Personally, I don't think it would be honest to sign and agree to a set of restrictions with no intention of complying with them. Fran ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 16:21:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h95KLEIO009444 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:21:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95KKY76003302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:20:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95KKYA1028153; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:20:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95KKVA1028106 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:20:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0964.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.197]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 928B0BEC00 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 22:20:25 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F807E1E.2050206@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 22:25:02 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century dress question/ Pirates of the Caribbean References: <20031003142031.26944.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the tip. I think I know which dress I am gonna make. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Pirates/Elisabeth/Elisabeth.html The third picture(Janet Arnold page37 the firsth) but with the bodice of the fourt (Janet Arnold page37 the second) A bit of a mixture.. Greetings, Deredere N Kipar wrote: > --- Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Hi, > > >>I am planning to make an Elisabeth Swan dress for a Fantasy Fair, since >>my husband wants to go as Jack Sparrow. >>But I cant seem to determine what I want to make. I don't want to >>recreate a dress from the movie but rather a dress from that period. >>But as in most costume movies the costumes are a mixture of differen >>styles. 18th century is not my period. >>I want a dress so that people who have seen the movie would say "Hey >>that is Elisabeth!". >>http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Pirates/POTC.html >> >> > >Deredere, this is the best list for PotC costumes: > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/potccostuming/ > >The other two are pretty quiet. personally I think if you made something like >the peach dress that would be most recognisable. > >Nicole > >===== >Cap'n Cat of the good ship 'Harlot' >http://www.kipar.org/society/author/pirates/ > >Email: nicole@kipar.org >URL: http://www.kipar.org > >________________________________________________________________________ >Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! >Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 16:47:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h95KlOIO009520 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:47:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95Kka76004413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:46:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95KkYA1008475; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:46:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95KkUA1008446 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:46:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-51-214.jps.net ([209.165.51.214] helo=pavilion) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A6Flt-0001TH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 13:46:30 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01c38b82$42aab940$d633a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031005175816.87372.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> <3F807D5C.7040302@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] EEBO Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:50:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran wrote: > See _The Public Domain_ (pages 12/17-18), in the section "Is the > Database Protected by Means Other than by Copyright?", where it says, > "if you sign a licensing agreement [as to how you will use the > database], you must be aware that the owner of a database can sue you if > you violate the license." You might win; you might lose. Personally, I > don't think it would be honest to sign and agree to a set of > restrictions with no intention of complying with them. > well, I won't be posting any of the pdf files I obtained on my site for general downloading as much as I would like to see this info more widely available but I will incorporate the information in the books I've obtained into some form of searchable text, which does not violate the liscencing agreement. There are books on interpreting dreams, fortune telling by moles, a book about there being a world on the moone, books denouncing painted ladies, I could go on and on. It's like wandering into a Borders Bookstore, but one that's 400 years old. Anyway, one day I'll have a site www.ManIntheMoone.com filled with this info, but not today. Cheers, Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 16:54:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h95KstIO009535 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:54:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95KsI76004712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:54:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95KsHA1011470; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:54:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95KsEA1011463 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:54:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-51-214.jps.net ([209.165.51.214] helo=pavilion) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A6FtN-0004ZQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 13:54:14 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01c38b83$574dd0c0$d633a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:57:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Luther - the movie X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h95KstIO009535 Status: RO Just noticed there is a new movie out with Joseph Fiennes in the role of Martin Luther - filled with early 16th century costumes no doubt. Might just go today! Lisa Sinervo www.lutherthemovie.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 17:22:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h95LMKIO009626 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:22:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95LLf76006013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:21:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95LLdR2022026; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:21:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95LLbR2021959 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:21:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.14a.24e74b86 (4459) for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:21:29 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <14a.24e74b86.2cb1e559@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:21:29 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Let them eat Cake To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10686 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/4/2003 4:18:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, alice@wonderland.com writes: > Ooooh these sound great. Why doesn't Netflix have them yet, drat it?!? > > Go to DVDpricesearch.com and type in the search engine "Saunders and French" and their DVDs of their TV show will come up. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 17:28:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h95LS8IO009657 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:28:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95LRP76006228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:27:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95LROR2024980; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:27:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95LRMR2024969 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:27:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.112]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DF852F90F for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:31:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:27:21 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Let them eat Cake Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <14a.24e74b86.2cb1e559@aol.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, but I want to rent them, not buy them! On Sunday, October 5, 2003, at 02:21 PM, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/4/2003 4:18:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, > alice@wonderland.com writes: > > >> Ooooh these sound great. Why doesn't Netflix have them yet, drat >> it?!? >> >> > > Go to DVDpricesearch.com and type in the search engine "Saunders and > French" > and their DVDs of their TV show will come up. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 17:34:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h95LYrIO009676 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:34:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95LYG76006508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:34:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95LYFR2027560; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:34:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95LYCR2027529 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:34:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.2f.3fba8497 (4459) for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:34:00 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <2f.3fba8497.2cb1e848@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:34:00 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Luther - the movie To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10686 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/5/2003 4:58:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, Lisa-list@threadneedlest.com writes: > Might just go today! > You'll be SO disappointed. A dreadful film! Some nice women's thing towards the end but, though they look good, I don't think they're way accurate. Still, I don't know. It's not my period. Some nice men's things. One thing that annoyed me, besides the horrible and uninspired music score, was the lack of servants and attendants. The Pope, Emperor, Kings and Lords are all alone and by themselves. Where IS everybody? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 17:35:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h95LZkIO009679 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:35:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95LZF76006556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:35:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95LZFR2027896; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:35:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95LZCR2027862 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:35:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.9f.3e7450ec (4459) for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:35:03 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <9f.3e7450ec.2cb1e886@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:35:02 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Let them eat Cake To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10686 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, at least you've got their exact titles now :-P _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 22:40:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h962efIO010990 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 22:40:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h962cw76019950 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 20:38:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h962coRa002674; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 20:38:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from citrine.spiritone.com (citrine.spiritone.com [216.99.193.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h962chRb002606 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 20:38:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0)h962fwDA018704; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 19:41:59 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "H-Costume" , "Antir-Laurels" Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 19:41:46 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] ILL comes through Again! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just received the three volume set of Progresses and Public Processions, Queen Elizabeth, with 45 illustrations, by John Nichols, published 1788 from Indiana University library. The text says there are two volumes, but the library may have rebound them into three. They are in superb shape. Now to go through and see what I want to copy! I love Multnomah county library! Happy Dance! Regina Romsey/Wanda Pease Sit vis nobiscum. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 23:07:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h96376IO011107 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 23:07:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9636T76021449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 21:06:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9636Rpp014355; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 21:06:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9636Opp014335 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 21:06:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-40-108.jps.net ([209.165.40.108] helo=pavilion) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A6LhX-0006tM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:06:24 -0700 Message-ID: <000601c38bb7$502e6640$6c28a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] ILL comes through Again! Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 20:09:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO oh my God!!! That is just amazing! I've seen some great quotes with Progresses listed as the reference. Have fun! Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wanda Pease" To: "H-Costume" ; "Antir-Laurels" Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 7:41 PM Subject: [h-cost] ILL comes through Again! > Just received the three volume set of Progresses and Public Processions, > Queen Elizabeth, with 45 illustrations, by John Nichols, published 1788 from > Indiana University library. The text says there are two volumes, but the > library may have rebound them into three. > > They are in superb shape. Now to go through and see what I want to copy! > > I love Multnomah county library! Happy Dance! > > Regina Romsey/Wanda Pease > Sit vis nobiscum. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 23:28:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h963SVIO011215 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 23:28:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h963Rm76022512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 21:27:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h963Rkpp022493; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 21:27:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from obsidian.spiritone.com (obsidian.spiritone.com [216.99.193.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h963Rgpq022467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 21:27:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0)h963Swjv025271 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 20:28:58 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] ILL comes through Again! Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 20:30:54 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <000601c38bb7$502e6640$6c28a5d1@pavilion> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Evidently a re-print has been made in the last 20 or so years. I found it on Amazon.com for $875. Makes xeroxing costs look quite reasonable - as long as it doesn't harm the binding of the book. Deliberately harming books is the 8th deadly sin! Number 9 is deliberately keeping them from being used by anyone else, as long as making it available doesn't violate sin #8 :-) Regina > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Lisa Sinervo > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 8:10 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] ILL comes through Again! > > > oh my God!!! That is just amazing! I've seen some great quotes with > Progresses listed as the reference. > > Have fun! > > Lisa Sinervo > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wanda Pease" > To: "H-Costume" ; "Antir-Laurels" > > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 7:41 PM > Subject: [h-cost] ILL comes through Again! > > > > Just received the three volume set of Progresses and Public Processions, > > Queen Elizabeth, with 45 illustrations, by John Nichols, published 1788 > from > > Indiana University library. The text says there are two > volumes, but the > > library may have rebound them into three. > > > > They are in superb shape. Now to go through and see what I > want to copy! > > > > I love Multnomah county library! Happy Dance! > > > > Regina Romsey/Wanda Pease > > Sit vis nobiscum. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 5 23:46:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h963kwIO011298 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 23:46:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h963kI76023398 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 21:46:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h963kGpp000197; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 21:46:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h963kCpp029957 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 21:46:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A40C10080094; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 22:39:56 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A40F39801E8; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 22:39:59 -0500 Message-ID: <01f201c38bbc$d061f8e0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 23:49:15 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: OSRELAY: Please stop using relays.osirusoft.com X-RBL-Warning: WEIGHT5: Weight of 5 reaches or exceeds the limit of 5. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Looking for Robin X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin N. can you please write me off-list at penny@costumegallery.com Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 00:37:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h964bFIO011391 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 00:37:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h964aV76026246 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Oct 2003 22:36:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h964aTVG022900; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 22:36:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail15.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail15.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h964aRVH022884 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 22:36:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pageartists.com (beaverboogieband.com [207.159.140.64]) h964aMe0032365; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 00:36:22 -0400 Received: from horse (c-67-160-166-180.client.comcast.net [67.160.166.180]) by pageartists.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA18214; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 20:36:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <00c701c38bc4$328c1d00$b4a6a043@comcast.net> From: "Brenna" To: <3mountains@yahoogroups.com>, , , , "the Cathedral Steps" Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 21:42:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] slightly OT - OryCon 25 reminder X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Please forgive the cross-posts but .... This year is OryCon's 25th time around. In recognition of that, the con is putting together a commemorative CD of photos, program book (and other publication) covers, badge frame images, committee lists, GoH bios, etc., from the _entire_ 25 years. To do this project fully, they would like your help - If you have photos that you would like to have included on this disk whether of folks in the hall, panels, silliness in Hospitality, masquerade, gaming, Dealers' Room, whatever, please send them to John Lorentz at jlorentz@spiritone.com Please send one image per message as he's on dialup. The preferred scan resolution is 200-300 dpi and please include as many details as possible - subject name, costume "name", photographer's name, year, circumstance (Masq. entry, Hospitality, whatever). They're also looking for audio clips to convert to MP3s. Hey, old-timers, how many do you recognise in this pic? What's in your closet? http://www.spiritone.com/~jlorentz/committee.jpg Items are needed asap. www.orycon.org/orycon25 Happy trails..... ttyl, Brenna _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 04:12:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h968CvIO015923 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 04:12:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h968CF76004003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 02:12:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h968C7ri006503; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 02:12:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h968C4ri006480 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 02:12:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h968CwA05451.; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:12:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:12:03 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:11:43 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Victorian dress on "Antiques Roadshow" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Any Victoriana fans in the UK see "Antiques Roadshow" last night? Someone produced an 1860s bodice and skirt which a friend had passed on to them when she moved to a smaller house. It was in salmon pink and silver - a bit insipid for my taste, but the condition of the garments was amazingly good. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 04:32:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h968WnIO023421 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 04:32:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h968W876004576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 02:32:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h968W6ri012743; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 02:32:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h968W4ri012691 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 02:32:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A70A1E5600A4; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 03:25:46 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A712153027A; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 03:25:54 -0500 Message-ID: <02c801c38be4$aeebd000$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian dress on "Antiques Roadshow" Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 04:34:39 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: OSRELAY: Please stop using relays.osirusoft.com X-RBL-Warning: WEIGHT5: Weight of 5 reaches or exceeds the limit of 5. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate, Was Karen Augusta the appraiser? She is a member of the Vintage email list and is working for the show. She has a beautiful website and merchandise at http://www.antique-fashion.com/ . Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 04:53:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h968rpIO030001 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 04:53:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h968rJ76005207 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 02:53:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h968rHri019640; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 02:53:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h968rEri019620 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 02:53:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h968s8A08122.; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:54:08 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:53:12 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:52:52 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian dress on "Antiques Roadshow" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny, No, I think it was Hilary Kay - see http://www.bbc.co.uk/antiques/expert_biogs/expert_biogs_k.shtml There must be different versions of the programme in the UK and US. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> penny@costumegallery.com 10/06/03 09:34am >>> Kate, Was Karen Augusta the appraiser? She is a member of the Vintage email list and is working for the show. She has a beautiful website and merchandise at http://www.antique-fashion.com/ . Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 08:39:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h96CdlIO020294 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:39:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96CcY76014646 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:38:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96CcVKd026624; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:38:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96CcSKd026556 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:38:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessica.webwarren.com (bgp380694bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.16.142]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by webwarren.com (8.12.9/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h96CcKqt019844 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:38:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20031006082248.0429fa70@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: arachne@pop.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 08:37:46 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] EEBO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran Grimble responds a post from Lisa Sinervo : >Nicole - not happy coz EEBO is the bets resource ever... theoretically! >>Early English Books Online is a subscription only service found typically >>at large libraries. The books are out of copyright but there is a >>licensing agreement involved in using the service (of course) which says >>the books are not for republication but for research only... >>...I wish the copyright laws were more clear because there is debate >>about using licensing agreements to create essentially a copyright where >>none indeed exists, There are two types of copyrights in this case, IIRC: there is the aggregation/compilation copyright, which is the copyright that exists for that particular edition of each original book (as they have been aggregated into the database) and the value-added copyright for that which is an intrinsic part of the database itself (indexing, citations, abstracts, hypertexting, etc.). If you are taking the book from the database, it can be argued in theory that you are using the _edited_ version of the book, and the editing _is_ added-value, establishing copyright. However, if you could go to the _original_ edition of the book, you should in theory be able to use it without copyright infringement. >See _The Public Domain_ (pages 12/17-18), in the section "Is the Database >Protected by Means Other than by Copyright?", where it says, "if you sign >a licensing agreement [as to how you will use the database], you must be >aware that the owner of a database can sue you if you violate the >license." You might win; you might lose. Remember also that the database itself is protected by copyright even if the included items are not. > Personally, I don't think it would be honest to sign and agree to a set > of restrictions with no intention of complying with them. Agreed; yet I think what Lisa is arguing is whether or not it is honest to put restrictions on items which would otherwise be in the public domain. We've been 'round this bend before, ladies. The bottom line is that it costs money to provide a database service and keep it running, and this money has to come from grants, subscriptions, and/or transactional fees. This, unfortunately, has the adverse effect of keeping needed information from people who cannot afford the monetary costs of access. Nicole, is it possible that you and your supervisor can get some sort of grant to get access to EEBO? If not a government grant, perhaps a directed gift from a wealthy alumnus? Or maybe talking with the folks there can get you something at a reduced rate for reduced access, or a special academic rate, or something like that. (Or have you done all that already, and any way you look at it, a price other than "free" means that more important programs would be cut?) Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 10:03:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h96E3qIO020558 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:03:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96E3476019778 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:03:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96E32Gm002814; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:03:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41504.mail.yahoo.com (web41504.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.87]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h96E2wGm002738 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:02:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031006140253.12629.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 15:02:53 BST Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:02:53 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] EEBO To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20031006082248.0429fa70@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Brenda wrote: > > Nicole, is it possible that you and your supervisor can get some sort of > grant to get access to EEBO? If not a government grant, perhaps a directed > gift from a wealthy alumnus? Or maybe talking with the folks there can get > you something at a reduced rate for reduced access, or a special academic > rate, or something like that. (Or have you done all that already, and any > way you look at it, a price other than "free" means that more important > programs would be cut?) The three thousand pounds (!!!) IS the academic rate for our small History department. We cannot afford it, we don't have the money, there is no one to give us any, so the bottom line is, we cannot access it anymore. I just think that this amount of money is exorbitant! They should stagger it according to departmental size. It's just unfair. *sulks* My supervisor has already tried just about anything, but nevermind. Nicole ===== Cap'n Cat of the good ship 'Harlot' http://www.kipar.org/society/author/pirates/ Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 12:35:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h96GZsIO021110 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:35:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96GZ376003824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:35:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96GYtMB000384; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:34:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96GYpMB000307 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:34:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fc2.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.194]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B9668262ADD for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:34:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003301c38c28$0bee6860$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:36:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] Gustav III' suit. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello Finally, after many many struggles with myself, discharging one design after another, i have come to agreement with myself on this design for the new suit i will make. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm I think you would like to see. PS the small silver spangels, are fake spangels. I am waiting to get real ones soon. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 13:03:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h96H3cIO021243 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:03:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96H2s76006470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:02:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96H2q4B023673; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:02:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96H2o4B023571 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:02:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m135.in-tch.com [216.166.191.135]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h96GgDY20595 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:42:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F81A0C3.1EF1D503@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:05:07 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustav III' suit. References: <003301c38c28$0bee6860$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, my, that will be quite stunning! I've never worked with chenille thread--do you couch it down? --sue, admiring as always Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hello > Finally, after many many struggles with myself, discharging one design after > another, i have come to agreement with myself on this design for the new > suit i will make. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm > > I think you would like to see. > PS the small silver spangels, are fake spangels. I am waiting to get real > ones soon. > > Bjarne > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 13:20:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h96HKBIO021277 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:20:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96HJM76008232 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:19:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96HJK4B007658; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:19:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96HJF4C007513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:19:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-209.sonic.net [209.148.112.209]) (authenticated bits=0)h96HJ8XN008763 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:19:09 -0700 Message-ID: <3F81A4A9.1000106@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:21:45 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] EEBO References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031006082248.0429fa70@mail.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20031006082248.0429fa70@mail.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >> See _The Public Domain_ (pages 12/17-18), in the section "Is the >> Database Protected by Means Other than by Copyright?", where it says, >> "if you sign a licensing agreement [as to how you will use the >> database], you must be aware that the owner of a database can sue you >> if you violate the license." You might win; you might lose. > > > Remember also that the database itself is protected by copyright even > if the included items are not. > Agreed; yet I think what Lisa is arguing is whether or not it is > honest to put restrictions on items which would otherwise be in the > public domain. What I am getting at is that there are means of restricting access that are not related to copyright, and which are nonetheless legal. They are not a dishonest way to "fake" copyright. A licensing agreement is one. With a license you agree to certain terms and you are bound by that agreement. This is perfectly legal. It is similar to a contract, whereby people enter into all kinds of agreements that are not legally inherent, but which, if not kept, are potentially enforceable by a lawsuit. (A roofing contractor doesn't inherently legally owe it to you to repair your roof. But they do if you and they sign an agreeement, and you've fulfilled your part. And you can sue the contractor for not doing the work agreed on.) After all, when you sign a license agreement you enter into it voluntarily. > We've been 'round this bend before, ladies. The bottom line is that it > costs money to provide a database service and keep it running, and > this money has to come from grants, subscriptions, and/or > transactional fees. This, unfortunately, has the adverse effect of > keeping needed information from people who cannot afford the monetary > costs of access. If the database owners can't get paid for their work, the material will, eventually, not be available for anyone. Fran ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 13:53:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h96HroIO021353 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:53:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96Hqw76011745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:52:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96Hqdbv007219; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:52:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96HqYbv007086 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:52:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AA5B2217007E; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:46:03 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AA5B18901A0; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:46:03 -0500 Message-ID: <00e201c38c33$08364160$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031006082248.0429fa70@mail.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] EEBO Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:55:29 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jumping in at the last moment... sorry, I had a stomach virus and hadn't been keeping up. As for the copyright Brenda is correct. The site and publications are copyrighted even through the books themselves are in the public domain. Signing a licensing agreement to view the EEBO does not give anyone the right to take the publications from their site and re-produce it. Now if you owned the original publication or if you have an agreement with an owner to reproduce the material, then go for it. But by going to a library or museum and re-publishing works owned by them without obtaining permission can get you into legal trouble. EEBO is a library service. Another example of universities paying to view was when I in college... they had several online services they subscribed to for students to view. I had to hand over my student ID when I accessed these programs. Someone from the general public could not walk into the library and view. The service I used frequently used was for viewing public businesses annual reports. I used it often and learned a great deal from it. It was free to the students in a matter of speaking but the service was included in tuition. The students didn't have a choice or asked, all students paid for the service whether they used it or not. I could make copies of the report but had to hold to the user's agreement and not republish the work. Personally, I have thought about going to universities and public schools then charging them for access to my library. And it is still not out of long term plans. And the price would be greatly higher for schools than it would for an individual subscription. Nicole, one way you might get in is to ask if EEBO are willing to hold individual subscriptions. I can understand if they say no.... the subscription fees from a university provides EEBO with more $$$ than small $$$ with individual subscriptions. And a lot less paperwork. Personally, I would hold subscriptions for both... but that is me. I can understand from a marketing aspect why EEBO choose to make universities as their target market. National Geographics has been doing this with the public school systems for at least the past five years. The catch is only certain students can access their material. In this case, it was the certain assessors were the gifted students but regular students could not access. This is one thing that has been holding me back with my library. I would like everyone not just certain students to be able to access my library. My advice is if you or your child are considering majoring in a certain aspect of English history, consider one of the universities that are accessing the program. Looking at it from a university viewpoint, it is a selling strategy to encourage students to enroll. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 14:14:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h96IEUIO021424 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:14:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96I5U76013111 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:05:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96I5TTh018319; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:05:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96I5NTh018249 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:05:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A6ZjX-0001Ex-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:05:23 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Gustav III' suit. Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:05:53 -0700 Message-ID: <002301c38c34$7bc51f10$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <003301c38c28$0bee6860$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Did you already post an overall design of what the suit looks like-did I miss it. If not, I'd sure like to see what it looks like... Sg P.S. It goes without saying I suppose, but your work is stunning...:) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 14:43:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h96IhSIO021484 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:43:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96IVm76015459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:31:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96IVaTh011225; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:31:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96IVRTh011019 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:31:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fc2.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.194]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 14DF45EE182 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:31:20 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000f01c38c38$5729f2d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:33:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] gustav III. suit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Saragrace. I have not made an overall design of it yeat. Only the repeat of the embroidery pattern. I dont think i can make a drawing of the entire suit with the embroidery on. You must imagine how it will look. The fronts of the jacket, the large cuffs and the pocket flaps. This time i want to embroider the whole area arround the pocket flaps two, like the real ones And the back vents in the skirts. But i will not make a band of embroidery along the sleave, as the real suit has, i dont like that. It has a center back panel also embroidered, but neither that i want. It is all in all going to be very much like the first suit i made, only the area in the fronts arround the pocket flaps will be embroidered. And i must make a muck up of the entire suit two. Even that i did meassure and find that Gustav III and i share the same size, i must make a muck up first. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 14:52:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h96IqgIO021509 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:52:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96Ikt76016744 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:46:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96IkZTh023588; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:46:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96IdvTh018541 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fc2.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.194]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B5D3F480002 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:39:55 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001b01c38c39$8b8416e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:42:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] Chenille thread X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Sue. You asked me how chenille is embroidered. Well according to "The Art of the Embroiderer" it can be made in two ways. It can be sewed ordinary, where you have to split up the chenille and catch the end trough the eye. This requires that you only use small ammounts of thread, because it will unwind itself. And it could be underside couched. This is what i will be doing, underside couching. Wich means that i pull the thick chenille thread trough the fabric, leave the one end on the underside, take another thread (much thinner) and sew it ( the chenille) on the fabric surface, going along the pattern and fill out the spaces with chenille thread. The next end is catched down under the fabric and secured on the back side. Does this make any sense? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 15:00:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h96J0nIO021523 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:00:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96IuE76017521 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:56:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96Iu7BJ001171; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:56:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96IrPTh028736 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:53:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fc2.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.194]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C013C5EE3FB for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:53:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004501c38c3b$68e23480$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:55:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] 18th century dress question/pirates of t X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Deredere. That Corset you are going to make, i warmly recomend. If you are going to make it fully boned, as it is, you will find that it gets sooo beautifull. I made this corset many years ago, and i used it for the renaissance dansers i made costumes for. This was because i did not have any alternatives, but it worked very nice. It was the late renaissance with wheel farthingales. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 15:12:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h96JCCIO021547 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:12:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96J9S76018697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:09:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96J9EBJ013085; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:09:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96J9BBJ013037 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:09:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A6ajG-0007F3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:09:11 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] gustav III. suit Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:09:38 -0700 Message-ID: <003001c38c3d$657de8f0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <000f01c38c38$5729f2d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Okay, we will just have to wait to see it...:) Reading about it is almost as good. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 16:59:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h96KxmIO021819 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:59:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96KwG76029688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:58:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96KwDSm019146; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:58:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96Kw5Sm018967 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:58:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be76.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.118]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B595748015F for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:58:03 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002a01c38c4c$d911c750$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002301c38c34$7bc51f10$6501a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustav III' suit. Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:00:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Saragrace, There still are pictures on the net from an exhibition there was in Sweden with the suit. This picture is the whole suit: http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Klarbild/GIII/T008299_hel.jpg And this is a closeup of the large cuffs: http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Klarbild/GIII/T008194_detalj.jpg But mind you, they are very high solution pictures, so they take some time to download. I wondered if i could have those pictures linked to my page? Should i ask of permission for this? It is pictures for the press, when they should write about the exhibition. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 8:05 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Gustav III' suit. > Did you already post an overall design of what the suit looks like-did I > miss it. If not, I'd sure like to see what it looks like... > Sg > > > P.S. It goes without saying I suppose, but your work is stunning...:) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 17:30:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h96LUOIO022000 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:30:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96LTU76002580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:29:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96LTSSm015405; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:29:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jalapeno.cc.columbia.edu (IDENT:cu41754@jalapeno.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.238]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96LTLSn015324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:29:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from VAIO (dyn-shp-225-184.dyn.columbia.edu [160.39.225.184]) (user=asj2001 mech=LOGIN bits=0)h96LTJHU022416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:29:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002101c38c50$514ba490$9865fea9@VAIO> From: "Alexia S. Jacobs" To: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:25:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Fabric in NYC X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h96LUOIO022000 Status: RO I live in New York city and am utterly bewildered by the garment district. What are good stores that sell a large range of colors of good quality silk? Alexia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 18:08:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h96M8bIO022087 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:08:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96M6J76005682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:06:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96M6Gdj014932; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:06:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96M69dj014727 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:06:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m44.in-tch.com [216.166.191.44]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h96LjVY13198 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:45:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F81E7DA.3A90508A@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 16:08:26 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chenille thread References: <001b01c38c39$8b8416e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Absolutely, it makes sense, Bjarne. Underside couching is a technique common to working with some gold threads--it gives a surprisingly suppleness to the embroidered area, because all the stitch-points (for want of a better word) act as little hinges for the otherwise-stiff gold thread. From what I recall, it's "the" main stitch used for the metallic parts of opus anglicanum. Do you use a matching (silk?) thread to stitch your chenille thread with? --sue Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hi Sue. > You asked me how chenille is embroidered. > Well according to "The Art of the Embroiderer" it can be made in two ways. > It can be sewed ordinary, where you have to split up the chenille and catch > the end trough the eye. This requires that you only use small ammounts of > thread, because it will unwind itself. > And it could be underside couched. This is what i will be doing, underside > couching. Wich means that i pull the thick chenille thread trough the > fabric, leave the one end on the underside, take another thread (much > thinner) and sew it ( the chenille) on the fabric surface, going along the > pattern and fill out the spaces with chenille thread. The next end is > catched down under the fabric and secured on the back side. > Does this make any sense? > > Bjarne > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 18:23:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h96MNEIO022099 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:23:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96MLu76007052 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:21:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96MLsdj026827; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:21:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96MLpdj026787 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:21:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be76.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.118]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D025C262A04 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:21:50 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001601c38c58$90483d90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001b01c38c39$8b8416e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3F81E7DA.3A90508A@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chenille thread Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:24:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Sue, It seems to be only us tonight, well it is quite late here :-) Yes i use a very thin silk floss to couch the silk chenille. And in a matching color, off cause. You cant se the stitches with the natural eye. This is the reason it gives the impression, that it is made of velvet. Apropos this Chenille silk. I often wondered why any renaissance people, dont use it. They could make a beautifull bodice with this. For instance this famous portrait with the black and white patterned bodice. You could make this with a black chenille silk on white satin. It would make the same impression, as it was wowen velvet /satin like the real renaissance fabric. It would require a lot of chenille thread, though, it costs 4 dollars for 2 yards of it. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 12:08 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chenille thread > Absolutely, it makes sense, Bjarne. Underside couching is a technique > common to working with some gold threads--it gives a surprisingly > suppleness to the embroidered area, because all the stitch-points (for > want of a better word) act as little hinges for the otherwise-stiff gold > thread. From what I recall, it's "the" main stitch used for the metallic > parts of opus anglicanum. > Do you use a matching (silk?) thread to stitch your chenille thread > with? > --sue > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > > Hi Sue. > > You asked me how chenille is embroidered. > > Well according to "The Art of the Embroiderer" it can be made in two ways. > > It can be sewed ordinary, where you have to split up the chenille and catch > > the end trough the eye. This requires that you only use small ammounts of > > thread, because it will unwind itself. > > And it could be underside couched. This is what i will be doing, underside > > couching. Wich means that i pull the thick chenille thread trough the > > fabric, leave the one end on the underside, take another thread (much > > thinner) and sew it ( the chenille) on the fabric surface, going along the > > pattern and fill out the spaces with chenille thread. The next end is > > catched down under the fabric and secured on the back side. > > Does this make any sense? > > > > Bjarne > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 19:09:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h96N9RIO022213 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:09:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96N8376011211 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96N80r7002757; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96N7ur7002654 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:07:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m33.in-tch.com [216.166.191.33]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h96MlIY11585 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:47:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F81F654.482FF66D@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 17:10:12 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chenille thread References: <001b01c38c39$8b8416e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <001601c38c58$90483d90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think so, but then, it's only late afternoon (5 pm) where I am. Normally, I don't get to read my emails unless it's first thing in the morning, or in the evening, but I happen to be home from work today. I would imagine that using chenille would indeed be cost-prohibitive (that's a LOT of money! for only a couple of yards of chenille.) And it would be a lot of work, especially since not all costumers also like to do embroidery. Me? I'd rather win the lottery, and pay someone 1000's of dollars to hand weave the stuff for me, and I could embroider something else, entirely! --sue, off to have a cup of tea before I make dinner.... Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hi Sue, > It seems to be only us tonight, well it is quite late here :-) > Yes i use a very thin silk floss to couch the silk chenille. > And in a matching color, off cause. > You cant se the stitches with the natural eye. > This is the reason it gives the impression, that it is made of velvet. > Apropos this Chenille silk. I often wondered why any renaissance people, > dont use it. They could make a beautifull bodice with this. For instance > this famous portrait with the black and white patterned bodice. > You could make this with a black chenille silk on white satin. It would make > the same impression, as it was wowen velvet /satin like the real renaissance > fabric. > It would require a lot of chenille thread, though, it costs 4 dollars for 2 > yards of it. > > Bjarne > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sue Clemenger" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 12:08 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chenille thread > > > Absolutely, it makes sense, Bjarne. Underside couching is a technique > > common to working with some gold threads--it gives a surprisingly > > suppleness to the embroidered area, because all the stitch-points (for > > want of a better word) act as little hinges for the otherwise-stiff gold > > thread. From what I recall, it's "the" main stitch used for the metallic > > parts of opus anglicanum. > > Do you use a matching (silk?) thread to stitch your chenille thread > > with? > > --sue > > > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > > > > Hi Sue. > > > You asked me how chenille is embroidered. > > > Well according to "The Art of the Embroiderer" it can be made in two > ways. > > > It can be sewed ordinary, where you have to split up the chenille and > catch > > > the end trough the eye. This requires that you only use small ammounts > of > > > thread, because it will unwind itself. > > > And it could be underside couched. This is what i will be doing, > underside > > > couching. Wich means that i pull the thick chenille thread trough the > > > fabric, leave the one end on the underside, take another thread (much > > > thinner) and sew it ( the chenille) on the fabric surface, going along > the > > > pattern and fill out the spaces with chenille thread. The next end is > > > catched down under the fabric and secured on the back side. > > > Does this make any sense? > > > > > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > > > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > > > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 20:28:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h970SLIO022355 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:28:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h970RI76016502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:27:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h970REtm018073; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:27:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web60306.mail.yahoo.com (web60306.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.118.117]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h970RBtm017989 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:27:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031007002706.51815.qmail@web60306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.104.214.144] by web60306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 17:27:06 PDT Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:27:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Jen Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric in NYC To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <002101c38c50$514ba490$9865fea9@VAIO> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I went to NYC I just wandered up and down 39th and 40th street, between 5th ave and I think 6th ave (could be 4th ave) and went into each little shop. Lots of great silk dupioni colors and wools and other things. I didn't see a lot of significant deals -- the prices were comparable to what I see in Chicago. However, I did get a great price on some lovely linen with a woven texture --- it was $5/yd. "Alexia S. Jacobs" wrote:I live in New York city and am utterly bewildered by the garment district. What are good stores that sell a large range of colors of good quality silk? Alexia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 20:36:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h970a1IO022381 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:36:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h970Z276016955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:35:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h970Z1tm022064; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt22.cluster1.charter.net (remt22.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h970Ywtm022000 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:34:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.169.191.177] (HELO charter.net) by remt22.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 16979148 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 20:34:52 -0400 Message-ID: <3F8209D4.6A096813@charter.net> Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 19:33:24 -0500 From: Joe Robertson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Old tartan X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Are there any sources that provides tartan material in patterns and colours that would be correct for period? Since "modern" colours are intense and deep, I've checked many of the modern setts in "ancient" or old colours designed to somewhat approximate organic dyes of the past. Many of these setts are very, very complex. I've yet to find any imagery of tartan from the old days, though I know that it existed. Perhaps if some of today's setts would do, does anyone have an idea which of them would be fairly representative of weavers' capabilities in the 16th century? Slainte, Joe --- Joe RObertson, Psy.D. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 20:46:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h970k1IO022407 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:46:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h970jJ76017476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:45:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h970jItm026919; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:45:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web9405.mail.yahoo.com (web9405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h970jGtm026899 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:45:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031007004515.10285.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.201.166] by web9405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 17:45:15 PDT Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:45:15 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustav III' suit. To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <002a01c38c4c$d911c750$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What exquisite goldwork! Sigh! that's the quality work I would love to do one day! Thanks so much for sharing those images , Bjarne-- cheers and best-- Albra Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: Hi Saragrace, There still are pictures on the net from an exhibition there was in Sweden with the suit. This picture is the whole suit: http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Klarbild/GIII/T008299_hel.jpg And this is a closeup of the large cuffs: http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Klarbild/GIII/T008194_detalj.jpg But mind you, they are very high solution pictures, so they take some time to download. I wondered if i could have those pictures linked to my page? Should i ask of permission for this? It is pictures for the press, when they should write about the exhibition. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 8:05 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Gustav III' suit. > Did you already post an overall design of what the suit looks like-did I > miss it. If not, I'd sure like to see what it looks like... > Sg > > > P.S. It goes without saying I suppose, but your work is stunning...:) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 21:19:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h971JsIO022473 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:19:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h971Im76019181 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:18:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h971Ilc3012720; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:18:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtph.ha-net.ptd.net (smtph.ha-net.ptd.net [207.44.96.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h971Iic3012646 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:18:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 11597 invoked by uid 50005); 7 Oct 2003 01:18:38 -0000 Received: from mffski@ptd.net by smtph.ha-net.ptd.net by uid 50002 with qmail-scanner-1.15 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4296. spamassassin: 2.43. Clear:. Processed in 0.848829 secs); 07 Oct 2003 01:18:38 -0000 Received: from bedroom-3.msns.sm.ptd.net (HELO Bedroom) ([24.229.47.233]) (envelope-sender ) by smtph.ha-net.ptd.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 7 Oct 2003 01:18:37 -0000 Message-ID: <00b701c38c70$ecdbcf00$e92fe518@Bedroom> From: "Maryanne" To: "Historical Costume" , References: <002101c38c50$514ba490$9865fea9@VAIO> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric in NYC Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:18:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I live in New York city and am utterly bewildered by the garment district. What are good stores that sell a large range of colors of good quality silk? Alexia Dear Alexia, I can recommend two shops on 40th Street between 8th and 7th Avenues. Start at Paron on the south side of 40th Street, closer to 7th Avenue. There are two Paron shops, and one of them is strictly discounted fabrics -- many out-dated designer fabrics. They are sold at 50% off a reasonable retail price. The other Paron sells full-price, but their prices are decent. I'd check these first, to see if they have what you need. The other shop is B&J on the north side of 40th Street, closer to 8th Avenue. B& J sells premium fabrics. (I have a craving for plaid silk taffeta, and they always have a nice selection of this high-cost item. About $24/yard.) The terrific thing about this shop is the range of offerings. They sell lots of beautiful stuff -- like, for example, many Liberty of London cotton prints. Maryanne, in exile from Manhattan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 21:20:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h971KcIO022476 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:20:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h971J376019219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:19:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h971J2c3012826; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtph.ha-net.ptd.net (smtph.ha-net.ptd.net [207.44.96.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h971Iic3012645 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:18:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 11597 invoked by uid 50005); 7 Oct 2003 01:18:38 -0000 Received: from mffski@ptd.net by smtph.ha-net.ptd.net by uid 50002 with qmail-scanner-1.15 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4296. spamassassin: 2.43. Clear:. Processed in 0.848829 secs); 07 Oct 2003 01:18:38 -0000 Received: from bedroom-3.msns.sm.ptd.net (HELO Bedroom) ([24.229.47.233]) (envelope-sender ) by smtph.ha-net.ptd.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 7 Oct 2003 01:18:37 -0000 Message-ID: <00b701c38c70$ecdbcf00$e92fe518@Bedroom> From: "Maryanne" To: "Historical Costume" , References: <002101c38c50$514ba490$9865fea9@VAIO> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric in NYC Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:18:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I live in New York city and am utterly bewildered by the garment district. What are good stores that sell a large range of colors of good quality silk? Alexia Dear Alexia, I can recommend two shops on 40th Street between 8th and 7th Avenues. Start at Paron on the south side of 40th Street, closer to 7th Avenue. There are two Paron shops, and one of them is strictly discounted fabrics -- many out-dated designer fabrics. They are sold at 50% off a reasonable retail price. The other Paron sells full-price, but their prices are decent. I'd check these first, to see if they have what you need. The other shop is B&J on the north side of 40th Street, closer to 8th Avenue. B& J sells premium fabrics. (I have a craving for plaid silk taffeta, and they always have a nice selection of this high-cost item. About $24/yard.) The terrific thing about this shop is the range of offerings. They sell lots of beautiful stuff -- like, for example, many Liberty of London cotton prints. Maryanne, in exile from Manhattan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 21:34:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h971YoIO022494 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:34:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h971Xt76020657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:33:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h971Xrc3019782; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:33:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brazilnut.cc.columbia.edu (IDENT:cu41754@brazilnut.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.203]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h971Xnc4019751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:33:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from VAIO (dyn-shp-225-184.dyn.columbia.edu [160.39.225.184]) (user=asj2001 mech=LOGIN bits=0)h971XlTO023289 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003001c38c72$7805c3f0$9865fea9@VAIO> From: "Alexia S. Jacobs" To: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:29:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Costume in NYC X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h971YoIO022494 Status: RO I am looking for less than a yard of silk for some 18th century shoes, so I am willing to spend a good amount for the nicest fabric I can find. Thank you for the suggestions Alexia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 21:36:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h971a5IO022497 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:36:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h971Ye76020709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:34:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h971Yec3020150; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:34:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h971Ycc3020101 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:34:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a222.in-tch.com [66.62.107.22]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h971E0Y11372; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F8218B7.E66DAAB7@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 19:36:55 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: HNW list , "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Cool book for 19th c embroidery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A couple of weeks ago, I was looking around in my favorite local bookstore, and came upon a "Workbook of Embroidery Design" that I just had to get, even though it's not a time period I spend much time with. As the intro. states, "The designs in this book are taken from two notebooks, dated 1858, which were found in an old trunk in an attic. The notebooks belonged to Virginia Baskervill, who lived at Waverly Honor plantation...." The book itself comprises over 200 pages of an amazing assortment of designs (floral, initials, overall designs, "coronation cord" embroidery, and lots and lots of other stuff) all intended for various types of whitework and cutwork. Plus a section in back giving instructions on the basic stitches used. A lot of it is distinctly intended for use on clothing, too. If I ever have the chance to do some ante-bellum recreation, I'll know exactly what to use as a source for embroidering my underthings! --Sue, doing a little happy dance.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 22:46:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h972kKIO022821 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:46:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h972jW76025021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:45:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h972jU4F023380; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:45:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h972jQ4F023303 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:45:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A73C15F50080; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 21:38:52 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A73FDD02C0; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 21:38:55 -0500 Message-ID: <00c601c38c7d$71c8ede0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031006082248.0429fa70@mail.earthlink.net> <00e201c38c33$08364160$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] EEBO Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:48:09 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just came across this excellent explanation of copyrights and trademark infringement, and licensing. I hope this helps some of you understand. http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/help/law.aspx Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 6 23:25:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h973PUIO022915 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:25:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h973Oh76027304 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:24:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h973Og9c012104; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:24:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h973Oe9c012093 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:24:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-58-094.jps.net ([209.165.58.94] helo=[209.165.44.208]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A6iSh-0005xf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 23:24:36 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001b01c38c39$8b8416e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <001b01c38c39$8b8416e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:12:29 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chenille thread Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 8:42 PM +0200 10/6/03, Bjarne Drews wrote: >And it could be underside couched. This is what i will be doing, underside >couching. Wich means that i pull the thick chenille thread trough the >fabric, leave the one end on the underside, take another thread (much >thinner) and sew it ( the chenille) on the fabric surface, going along the >pattern and fill out the spaces with chenille thread. The next end is >catched down under the fabric and secured on the back side. >Does this make any sense? Hmm. This sounds closer to what we call "surface couching" in English, because only the beginning and end of the chenille thread go through the fabric, am I right? Usually in English, "underside couching" refers to something a little different -- the thin thread that is doing the couching stitches comes up from under the fabric, over the big thread, and then goes back down into the same hole in the fabric that it came out of. It is then pulled tight, so a little loop of the big thread is pulled down under the fabric. On the top, you don't see the couching thread at all. I think this would be hard to do with chenille thread, because it would make a bigger hole in the fabric. Underside couching is usually used for thread that is thin, but very stiff, like gold thread. It keeps almost all the expensive gold thread on the top of the fabric, and the only parts that are pulled through the fabric are the small loops. But as Sue said, fabric embroidered this way is much more flexible than if the gold was surface-couched. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 00:00:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97407IO022990 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:00:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h973xF76029269 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:59:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h973xBGl028695; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:59:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from neit3.vosn.net (neit3.vosn.net [209.151.87.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h973x9Gm028682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:59:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-66-74-169-21.socal.rr.com ([66.74.169.21] helo=master) by neit3.vosn.net with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1A6j09-00022U-0z for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 23:59:09 -0400 From: "Mildred" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costume in NYC Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:59:11 -0700 Message-ID: <003201c38c87$5f139ba0$0100a8c0@master> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <003001c38c72$7805c3f0$9865fea9@VAIO> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - neit3.vosn.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - thebartholomews.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks to all who replied! Yes, I am looking for business attire (as well as other things). Luanne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 00:03:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9743YIO023003 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:03:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9742876029366 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:02:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97427Gl029994; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:02:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.surewest.net (smtp2.surewest.net [208.45.228.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h97425Gl029936 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:02:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 2853 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 04:01:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21) (66.205.128.11) by smtp2.surewest.net with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 04:01:59 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031006210032.03110888@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 21:01:58 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: RE: [h-cost] ILL comes through Again! In-Reply-To: References: <000601c38bb7$502e6640$6c28a5d1@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2 SNWK2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I got a copy of the reprint volumes for about $100 just two years ago. I got them via ABEbooks. Joan Jurancich At 08:30 PM 10/5/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Evidently a re-print has been made in the last 20 or so years. I found it >on Amazon.com for $875. Makes xeroxing costs look quite reasonable - as >long as it doesn't harm the binding of the book. Deliberately harming books >is the 8th deadly sin! Number 9 is deliberately keeping them from being >used by anyone else, as long as making it available doesn't violate sin #8 >:-) > >Regina > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > > Behalf Of Lisa Sinervo > > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 8:10 PM > > To: Historical Costume > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] ILL comes through Again! > > > > > > oh my God!!! That is just amazing! I've seen some great quotes with > > Progresses listed as the reference. > > > > Have fun! > > > > Lisa Sinervo > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Wanda Pease" > > To: "H-Costume" ; "Antir-Laurels" > > > > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 7:41 PM > > Subject: [h-cost] ILL comes through Again! > > > > > > > Just received the three volume set of Progresses and Public Processions, > > > Queen Elizabeth, with 45 illustrations, by John Nichols, published 1788 > > from > > > Indiana University library. The text says there are two > > volumes, but the > > > library may have rebound them into three. > > > > > > They are in superb shape. Now to go through and see what I > > want to copy! > > > > > > I love Multnomah county library! Happy Dance! > > > > > > Regina Romsey/Wanda Pease > > > Sit vis nobiscum. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 00:10:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h974AGIO023018 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:10:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9749676029719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:09:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97495Gl003274; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:09:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from neit3.vosn.net (neit3.vosn.net [209.151.87.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97493Gm003253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:09:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-66-74-169-21.socal.rr.com ([66.74.169.21] helo=master) by neit3.vosn.net with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1A6j9i-0002eD-Or for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 00:09:02 -0400 From: "Mildred" To: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:09:05 -0700 Message-ID: <003701c38c88$c11e5fa0$0100a8c0@master> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - neit3.vosn.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - mail.indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - thebartholomews.com Subject: [h-cost] Distressing Fabrics? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I work with a reenactment company that wants to take the edge off new clothes. We don't want to look like gutter trash, we just don't want our brand-new clothing to look brand new. Can anyone with a theatre background offer some advice or point me in the right direction? Many thanks, Luanne Bartholomew _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 00:42:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h974g6IO023155 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:42:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h974fA76001375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:41:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h974f8Gl017261; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:41:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h974f6Gl017187 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:41:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.30.481dd632 (2519) for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:40:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Message-ID: <30.481dd632.2cb39dd7@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:40:55 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Old tartan To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 912 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you can find a copy of John Telfer Dunbar's History of Highland Dress (Batsford, London, 1972), you will see color prints of pre-1745 tartan. There is a John Telfer Dunbar Collection that contains these tartans, but I don't know where the collection is housed. The tartans are very bright and colorful. If you can't find the book, let me know and I will scan the pictures of the tartans. For historical purposes, I would choose an irregular sett, and try to pick an unrecognizable pattern if you can ("Clan McRemnant"). Try to avoid obvious ones like Royal Stewart, Black Watch, or "Loud McCloud." Kathleen Norvell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 00:48:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h974mGIO023165 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:48:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h974lO76001622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:47:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h974lNGl019807; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:47:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h974lKGl019762 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:47:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.116.29924911 (17079) for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:47:12 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <116.29924911.2cb39f50@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:47:12 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Distressing Fabrics? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10705 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/7/2003 12:09:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, mildred@thebartholomews.com writes: > We don't want to look like gutter trash, we just don't want our brand-new > clothing to look brand new. Mere washing always helps. And of course white and bright colors glow under stage lights so must be toned down. Overdying in very pale grey or brown can do the trick. Things that look dingy up close will look just not so new on stage. And a little wilting and crumpling of crisp starched things takes them down a notch. One way we made an old suit jacket look new was to replace the crushed "kicker" felt padding in the shoulder seams. It seems to reverse the effect would be to smash it down, with a spritzer bottle of water and a hot iron. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 01:59:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h975xcIO023500 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:59:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h975wr76004478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:58:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h975wpOB019330; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:58:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h975wnOB019307 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:58:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-65.58.151.132.dial1.pittsburgh1.level3.net ([65.58.151.132] helo=4gxif) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A6krw-0007UH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 01:58:49 -0400 Message-ID: <03b201c38c98$12e1a040$84973a41@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003701c38c88$c11e5fa0$0100a8c0@master> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Distressing Fabrics? Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:58:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Luanne wrote: > I work with a reenactment company that wants to take the edge off new clothes. > We don't want to look like gutter trash, we just don't want our brand-new > clothing to look brand new. Can anyone with a theatre background offer some > advice or point me in the right direction? Just how used do you want the clothes to look? For general breaking down, wash the items several times; this will take care of the sizing and fade them a bit. Then use fine sandpaper on wear points- elbows, knees, all hems, and any other places that might receive heavy wear (this can even include the butt...) Go slowly, so you don't overdue it. Also, just wear them around the house; do this often enough before they go out in public, and they'll get a lived-in look. If you need to go further, just ask- the advanced course includes stuffing them with sandbags and dragging them behind a car down Sedgwick Ave on a Saturday morning, and then, there's the interesting stains. Good luck, -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 02:00:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9760jIO023544 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 02:00:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h975xI76004498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:59:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h975xIOB019483; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:59:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out005.verizon.net (out005pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.143]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h975wnOB019262 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:58:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [151.199.152.101] by out005.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20031007055844.PRAF15786.out005.verizon.net@[151.199.152.101]> for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:58:44 -0500 Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 01:48:43 -0400 From: Ron Carnegie To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Distressing Fabrics? In-Reply-To: <003701c38c88$c11e5fa0$0100a8c0@master> References: <003701c38c88$c11e5fa0$0100a8c0@master> Message-Id: <20031007014116.911B.R.CARNEGIE@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.05.11 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out005.verizon.net from [151.199.152.101] at Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:58:43 -0500 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO mildred> I work with a reenactment company that wants to take the edge off new clothes. mildred> We don't want to look like gutter trash, we just don't want our brand-new mildred> clothing to look brand new. Can anyone with a theatre background offer some mildred> advice or point me in the right direction? mildred> mildred> Many thanks, mildred> Luanne Bartholomew mildred> mildred> _______________________________________________ I know this isn't what you want to hear, but you have entered into one of my peeve areas (sorry in advance). Don't artificially distress your clothing. Sure the theatre does it, and movies do it, but their needs are different and they can get away with things that the reenactor can not. The absolute best way to distress reenactor clothing is to use it and care for it. Most artificial techniques will look artificial and many will cause undue stress to your clothing and shorten its life span. Use your clothes work in your cloths, do period things in your clothes and care for them in a period fashion. They will age soon enough and will look real and lived in. In the mean time remember that all through history at various times new clothing could be found. If that still makes you uncomfortable to wear the stuff at reenacments looking new, than do the things I mentioned at home. -- Ron Carnegie ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 02:02:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9762rIO024370 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 02:02:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9761Z76004633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:01:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9761YOB020429; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:01:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9761XOB020411 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:01:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMD008PLI2ILW@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 23:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 23:01:17 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Old tartan In-reply-to: <30.481dd632.2cb39dd7@aol.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031006225043.02954ad8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:40 AM 10/7/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Try to avoid obvious >ones like Royal Stewart, Black Watch, or "Loud McCloud." > >Kathleen Norvell Bwahahahaha... I have that "Loud MacLeod" material, that my hubby wanted trews made of, just to be obnoxious and quite visible. There is an old faire friend who enjoyed wearing his as a full blown great kilt, and he had the swagger to pull it off. But I do agree with Kathleen, if you are going for historical, stay away from the modern obvious tartan patterns. But you would be surprised just how colorful vegetable and lichen dyed wools can be, so just going with a "muted" tartan is not necessarily the best thing. Oh, and one other to add to the list of obvious, stay away from Buchanan. Goodness that one is colorful, almost gawdily so, and I can recognize it in a heartbeat. But then I can recognize a lot of the common ones. So look for an uncommon tartan set, like in browns and greens with some yellows or something to match the heathers. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 02:24:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h976OsIO000827 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 02:24:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h976O076005566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h976NxOB029427; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:23:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h976NvOB029393 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:23:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D6BF425CE for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:26:42 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3F825C01.7090101@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 01:24:01 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Distressing Fabrics? References: <003701c38c88$c11e5fa0$0100a8c0@master> In-Reply-To: <003701c38c88$c11e5fa0$0100a8c0@master> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mildred wrote: > I work with a reenactment company that wants to take the edge off new clothes. > We don't want to look like gutter trash, we just don't want our brand-new > clothing to look brand new. Can anyone with a theatre background offer some > advice or point me in the right direction? This is going to sound bizarre, but... leaving them outside for a week in the sun, rain , and dust is a pretty good start. Then give everything a good wash. That will take the crisp "new" look right out of everything. I'm not keen on sandpapering or tearing holes in re-enactment clothing, but I have been known to add cat hair, mud or tea stains, and a little dusting of flour to give clothes a head start on the 'lived in' look. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 03:16:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h977GfIO020213 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 03:16:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h977Eo76007099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:14:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h977ElvL020006; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:14:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h977EivL019990 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:14:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h977GEU21692 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:16:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:16:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200310070716.h977GEU21692@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Distressing Fabrics? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I work with a reenactment company that wants to take the edge off new clothes. > We don't want to look like gutter trash, we just don't want our brand-new > clothing to look brand new. Can anyone with a theatre background offer some > advice or point me in the right direction? > > Many thanks, > Luanne Bartholomew Depending on the fabrics, washing and then running through the dryer with a fistfull of pennies will beat up fabrics but not destroy them. Other options include drabbing the colors with a tiny bit of greyish dye, stains from shoe polish (be very, VERY sparing if you use this method), and abrading the fabric gently. Or not so gently, as we used a cheese grater on one set of work clothes to make them look suitably worn. Let's see, I've also used watercolor paints in earth tones carefully diluted and daubed onto non-washable items to make them look aged. The nice thing about this method is if you think your staining is too dark, you just add more water or brush more water on top. Artists' chalks and charcoal sticks also work for that (don't use oil pastels unless you never *ever* want it to come out). Most of the methods that will fade fabrics will also damage them, so be careful. Washing items multiple times with Synthrapol will help take the "edge" off new dye. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 04:45:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h978jrIO020871 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 04:45:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h978j876010061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 02:45:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h978j5MC022553; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 02:45:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h978j0MC022517 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 02:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bee5.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.229]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6F98A47FEF3 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:44:59 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001d01c38caf$a1961980$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001b01c38c39$8b8416e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chenille thread Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:47:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Chris. Thanks for inlighting me with this. Yes you are right, i dont pull the chenille thread that tight, it is only sewed on the surface. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Laning" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 5:12 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chenille thread > At 8:42 PM +0200 10/6/03, Bjarne Drews wrote: > >And it could be underside couched. This is what i will be doing, underside > >couching. Wich means that i pull the thick chenille thread trough the > >fabric, leave the one end on the underside, take another thread (much > >thinner) and sew it ( the chenille) on the fabric surface, going along the > >pattern and fill out the spaces with chenille thread. The next end is > >catched down under the fabric and secured on the back side. > >Does this make any sense? > > Hmm. This sounds closer to what we call "surface couching" in > English, because only the beginning and end of the chenille thread go > through the fabric, am I right? > > Usually in English, "underside couching" refers to something a little > different -- the thin thread that is doing the couching stitches > comes up from under the fabric, over the big thread, and then goes > back down into the same hole in the fabric that it came out of. It is > then pulled tight, so a little loop of the big thread is pulled down > under the fabric. On the top, you don't see the couching thread at > all. I think this would be hard to do with chenille thread, because > it would make a bigger hole in the fabric. > > Underside couching is usually used for thread that is thin, but very > stiff, like gold thread. It keeps almost all the expensive gold > thread on the top of the fabric, and the only parts that are pulled > through the fabric are the small loops. But as Sue said, fabric > embroidered this way is much more flexible than if the gold was > surface-couched. > -- > _________________________________________________________ > O Chris Laning > | > + Davis, California > _________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 09:21:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97DLBIO003415 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:21:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97DKI76024108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:20:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97DKFiY012199; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:20:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97DKCiY012183 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:20:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])h97DKAQl013500 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031007084136.00b64880@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:20:15 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Old tartan In-Reply-To: <3F8209D4.6A096813@charter.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings Joe... or Ceid Mille Failche... I take it you are looking for 16th century tartan patterns... well...I hate to tell you but tartan as we know it today is not a 16th century critter. The registered tartan setts that denote a family by a specific weave of colours is a Victorian thang... sorry. Now that's not to say that specific areas, or families didn't have patterns that were specific to them, made from local dyes etc. As I know samples of fabric were recovered from Culloden, which occurred in 1746. None of them are woven in the setts prescribed by today's tartan, and many of them are simply checks, or solid fabrics. I've also had the good fortune to work on a recovery of weaving patterns from the highlands about 1800. This collection of weavers books contained hundreds of patterns - mostly twills for 4 - 12 harnesses. Not a tartan among them. But this is during the Disarming Act following the '45 so take it with a grain of salt. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/tartan/history.htm gives a good overall history of the modern tartan... As for weaving any of todays setts... I truely believe that a 16th centry weaver could execute any of them easily. After all half the work of a tartan is in the warping. And the fabric itself is a simple twill. So for 1600 and earlier you're looking at solid colours, or checked patterns, or perhaps striped on the vertical and the horizontal, which would give the look of a tartan. Good luck. Bridgette > Are there any sources that provides tartan material in patterns and >colours that would be correct for period? Since "modern" colours are >intense and deep, I've checked many of the modern setts in "ancient" or >old colours designed to somewhat approximate organic dyes of the past. >Many of these setts are very, very complex. I've yet to find any imagery >of tartan from the old days, though I know that it existed. > Perhaps if some of today's setts would do, does anyone have an idea >which of them would be fairly representative of weavers' capabilities in >the 16th century? >Slainte, >Joe >--- >Joe RObertson, Psy.D. Mari Stewart (who got painted with the 'Scottish Pride' brush early) Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 09:26:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97DQbIO003456 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:26:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97DOj76024514 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:24:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97DOiiY014420; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:24:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14004.mail.yahoo.com (web14004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h97DOfiY014390 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:24:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031007132441.76807.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:24:41 BST Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:24:41 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Distressing Fabrics? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <003701c38c88$c11e5fa0$0100a8c0@master> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Something we have done to mute bright colours or obviously synthetic dyes was to put several tea bags in cheesecloth and run them all through the washing machine. It will wash out the next time you wash them, but in the meantime you get a little more natural, not brand new look. --- wrote: > I work with a reenactment company that wants to take > the edge off new clothes. > We don't want to look like gutter trash, we just > don't want our brand-new > clothing to look brand new. Can anyone with a > theatre background offer some > advice or point me in the right direction? > > Many thanks, > Luanne Bartholomew > ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 09:30:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97DUcIO003545 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:30:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97DRU76024690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:27:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97DRTiY015985; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:27:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97DRQiY015962 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:27:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-34-207.jps.net ([209.165.34.207] helo=pavilion) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A6rs5-0003Uv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:27:25 -0700 Message-ID: <001201c38cd7$46baa440$cf22a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:31:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Lawsuit over the reselling of commercial patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h97DUcIO003545 Status: RO FYI - a case in the news regarding the monsterpatters vs. the big pattern companies can be found here http://www.prweb.com/releases/2003/5/prweb67370.php This case involves monsterpatterns selling discarded simplicity/mccalls patterns on their site and auction site(s). Simplicity/McCalls is claiming copyright infringement as monsterpatterns is showing photos of the pattern covers in their advertising when offering them for sale. If the big pattern companies win, this would possibly mean no one would be able to post a picture of a book still under copyright on e-bay when they want to sell it without the risk of being successfully sued. Same for NFL football jerseys or anything under copyright or with a trademark, or historical costume patterns (obligatory costume content). I hate this whole quagmire of copyright and wish some more clear cut rules would be established! There are too many conflicting lawsuit outcomes and that vary from state to state and jurisdiction, and that's not good for people wishing to use public domain material or for those investing time and money in making public domain material more readily available as part of their livelihood. Still, not the barrel I wish to push by way of becoming a test case. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 09:34:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97DYZIO003577 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:34:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97DXq76025036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:33:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97DXpiY019522; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:33:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14004.mail.yahoo.com (web14004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h97DXmiY019491 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:33:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031007133348.78475.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:33:48 BST Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:33:48 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Old tartan To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F8209D4.6A096813@charter.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Tartan: The Highland Habit by Hugh Cheape ISBN: 0-948636-70-X / 094863670X Title: Tartan: The Highland Habit Author: Hugh Cheape Publisher: National Museums of Scotland Publishing Edition: Hardcover This book has pictures of old tartans collected for the museum, but of course they're mostly 17th and 18th century. It will give you an idea what 16th century tartans probably looked like. --- Joe Robertson wrote: > Are there any sources that provides tartan > material in patterns and > colours that would be correct for period? Since > "modern" colours are > intense and deep, I've checked many of the modern > setts in "ancient" or > old colours designed to somewhat approximate organic > dyes of the past. > Many of these setts are very, very complex. I've yet > to find any imagery > of tartan from the old days, though I know that it > existed. > Perhaps if some of today's setts would do, does > anyone have an idea > which of them would be fairly representative of > weavers' capabilities in > the 16th century? > Slainte, > Joe > --- > Joe RObertson, Psy.D. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 09:43:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97Dh6IO003629 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:43:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97DgE76025575 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:42:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97DgCiY024276; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:42:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97Dg7iY024226 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:42:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])h97Dg6Ql002466 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:42:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031007092713.00b4c028@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:42:12 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Old tartan In-Reply-To: <30.481dd632.2cb39dd7@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey Joe - Do be very careful with this resource... many of the actual samples in his collection are 20th century. If you see his book the prints may be of pre-1745 images.... but were they drawn by Victorian artists? I've looked at this one in the past... can't recall it off the top of my head... guess I'm going to go looking for it. The link below will take you to the first page of a collection of tartan samples. They are all (or nearly all) denoted as to their source of origin and Time Period. In it is included the Telfer Dunbar collection. http://houseoftartan.co.uk/house/nf_a.htm >If you can find a copy of John Telfer Dunbar's History of Highland Dress >(Batsford, London, 1972), you will see color prints of pre-1745 tartan. >There is a >John Telfer Dunbar Collection that contains these tartans, but I don't know >where the collection is housed. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 10:56:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97EutIO006546 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:56:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97Etu76001296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:55:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97EtplC018130; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:55:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h97EtklC017962 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:55:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OvnDTOBO5Y9zqZqMn4Pf9yQ=">; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 07:55:37 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JBV7SWV9; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 07:55:37 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:43:23 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chenille thread Message-ID: <20031007.075523.1772.3.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chris Laning writes: > Usually in English, "underside couching" refers to something a > little > different -- the thin thread that is doing the couching stitches > comes up from under the fabric, over the big thread, and then goes > back down into the same hole in the fabric that it came out of. It > is > then pulled tight, so a little loop of the big thread is pulled down > > under the fabric. On the top, you don't see the couching thread at > all. I think this would be hard to do with chenille thread, because > it would make a bigger hole in the fabric. > > Underside couching is usually used for thread that is thin, but very > > stiff, like gold thread. It keeps almost all the expensive gold > thread on the top of the fabric, and the only parts that are pulled > through the fabric are the small loops. But as Sue said, fabric > embroidered this way is much more flexible than if the gold was > surface-couched. How does this differ from Or nue? Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 14:27:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97IR4IO007212 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:27:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97IO476022947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:24:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97INtU0025407; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:23:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97INqU0025364 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:23:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 16-119.tnt-3.harrisburg.supernet.com ([64.41.16.119]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A6wUy-0006ym-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:23:52 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200310071801.h97I1Odg004926@net.indra.com> References: <200310071801.h97I1Odg004926@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:23:46 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 632 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:01 PM -0600 10/7/03, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >Now that's not to say that specific areas, or families didn't have patterns >that were specific to them, made from local dyes etc. >As I know samples of fabric were recovered from Culloden, which occurred >in 1746. None of them are woven in the setts prescribed by today's >tartan, and many of them are simply checks, or solid fabrics. I've woven a scarf in a sett from some of the cloth found at Culloden. It is very different and loud! I love it! The yellow and purple vibrate soooo nicely ( yellow possibly quceriton (oak) and the purple possibly lichen...) A whole kilt in it would be an eye opener for sure. Natural dyes = dull and sad, NOT. :-) Ta Carol, back to Fall Cleaning and finding the sewing room floor after sewing many, many coursing/racing blankets. Anyone need scraps of primary colors and some neons??? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 15:14:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97JEuIO007386 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:14:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97JDL76027338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:13:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97JDKfu008077; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:13:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.11.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h97JD0fu007645 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-63-202-198-62.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net (HELO AngelaFLazear) (angelalazear@sbcglobal.net@63.202.198.62 with login) by smtp1.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 18:20:03 -0000 Message-ID: <008801c38cff$987cca10$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> From: "angelalazear" To: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:19:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] italian renn job - off topic X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry to send this to the full list, but there were so many responses I wanted to get the information out right away, and was afraid I might not have kept a complete list of those who responded. Lisa Sinervo, if you'd post to your list as well, this way everyone will be sure to get the info. The lady from the Bellagio has not responded to my last three emails as of this morning. She was either shooting off her mouth with no info, or has apparently changed her mind, or has no concept of the magnitude of the project. I am going to say at this point that her offer was not fully informed and that there probably isn't a genuine interest on the part of Steve Wynn or his agents to get this project completed. So sorry to have wasted any of your time, but will defnitely keep your names for future projects as they arise, should they be genuine. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 15:15:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97JFnIO007398 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:15:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97JCT76027258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:12:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97JCKfu007191; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:12:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97JCIfu007136 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:12:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lynne-laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.86]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.comESMTP <20031007191214.UMIV6394.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@lynne-laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:12:14 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20031007200716.01ef20c0@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:12:07 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] Old tartan In-Reply-To: <3F8209D4.6A096813@charter.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1BCF2703; boundary="=======67431E0=======" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======67431E0======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1BCF2703; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 01:33 07/10/2003 Joe Robertson said >Are there any sources that provides tartan material in patterns and >colours that would be correct for period? Since "modern" colours are >intense and deep, I've checked many of the modern setts in "ancient" or >old colours designed to somewhat approximate organic dyes of the past. >Many of these setts are very, very complex. I've yet to find any imagery >of tartan from the old days, though I know that it existed. There was a kind of patterned material, but it wasn't tartan as we know it. There are accounts of patterned or checked fabric, but tartans as we know them were invented by the Victorians, first to become regimental colours, then for fun when Vicky and Albert became obsessed with Scotland and all things Scottish, following the success of Walter Scott's novels. No clan had its own tartan before the nineteenth century, although there were regional variations to the pattern. As far as I know none has survived. You could try saffron dyes, and madders. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE. VANESSA from Awe-Struck --=======67431E0======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1BCF2703 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 - Release Date: 06/10/2003 --=======67431E0======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======67431E0=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 15:56:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97JuaIO007518 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:56:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97JsO76001226 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:54:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97JsKfu014503; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:54:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97JsGfv014387 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:54:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-251.sonic.net [209.148.112.251]) (authenticated bits=0)h97Js8XN017862 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:54:09 -0700 Message-ID: <3F831A7E.9080703@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 12:56:46 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lawsuit over the reselling of commercial patterns References: <001201c38cd7$46baa440$cf22a5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <001201c38cd7$46baa440$cf22a5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa Sinervo wrote: >FYI - a case in the news regarding the monsterpatters vs. the big pattern companies can be found here http://www.prweb.com/releases/2003/5/prweb67370.php >This case involves monsterpatterns selling discarded simplicity/mccalls patterns on their site and auction site(s). > One thing I would be interested in knowing is whether the stores that discarded the patterns claimed the patterns were "destroyed" and claimed refunds from the pattern companies. This has been a problem in book publishing with mass market paperbacks. The paperbacks are so cheap that rather than (either the retailer or the publisher) paying postage to return them for credit, some publishers' terms allow the retailer to tear off the covers, return those for credit, and destroy the rest of the book. Actual destruction of the book is on the honor system. Some retailers fail to do it, and the book somehow winds up getting resold (even though the credit for it was also collected; it's a sort of double sale). Buying and selling mass market paperbacks with missing covers is a shady part of book retailing. Is there a similar returns system with sewing patterns from the Big Pattern Companies? >Simplicity/McCalls is claiming copyright infringement as monsterpatterns is showing photos of the pattern covers in their advertising when offering them for sale. > Well, the pattern companies do own the copyrights to their own images and marketing copy. Such modern images would not be in the public domain unless the pattern companies explicitly put them there, which I doubt they would. > If the big pattern companies win, this would possibly mean no one would be able to post a picture of a book still under copyright on e-bay when they want to sell it without the risk of being successfully sued. Same for NFL football jerseys or anything under copyright or with a trademark, or historical costume patterns (obligatory costume content). > You talk as if the outcome of one lawsuit determines some important aspect of copyright law. Actually, although some attention is paid to legal precedents, usually no one case is definitive. What would happen is that other people might sue about the same issue, and all with somewhat different legal outcomes. I suspect other people may in fact already have conducted similar suits, though I haven't checked on it. But the use of marketing materials without permssion is probably not a totally new issue. > >I hate this whole quagmire of copyright and wish some more clear cut rules would be established! > Copyright law has never been (what I think you would call) clear cut and probably never will be. There are, however, a few simple, clear-cut rules for using public domain material that I think should keep most people out of trouble most of the time. Note: I'm a publisher, not a lawyer. If you use US public domain material, use material published before 1923. Use only originals, and only ones in your legal possession. Don't publish originals you borrowed without explicit permission to publish them. The person who owns them has property rights that are not copyright, but which are quite real, and which prohibit uses they did not agree to. Don't use public domain work to which someone else has added (or may have added, if you're not sure) any original work, such as revisions, deletions, choice of materials for an anthology, editing, footnotes, an introduction, an index, etc. (That is, if they did this work after 1923.) Don't violate any agreements you have made, such as a licensing agreement for access to a database. If you are at all unsure of whether it is OK to use a work, ask the copyright owner, the physical property owner, and/or a lawyer. You may need to do a copyright search. Get any permissions, in writing, before you do what you were asking permission to do. No one is offended by your asking, even if permission turns out to be unnecessary, or even if they refuse. Be aware that when some works were published, US law differed significantly for unpublished versus published works. The legacy is still around; an old unpublished manuscript is not necessarily in the public domain. Be aware that copyright laws differ from country to country. Most countries have agreed to respect each others' laws, but that does not mean laws are identical internatuionally. You can't just take a book on US law and apply it to British or Canadian publications. If you are dealing with any confusing or complicated issue, if there is something you just can't understand or a copyroght owner you can't find, consult a lawyer. It's a lot cheaper than a lawsuit.. It will probably be just a quick consultation. >There are too many conflicting lawsuit outcomes and that vary from state to state and jurisdiction, > US copyright law is federal. It does not change from state to state. >and that's not good for people wishing to use public domain material or for those investing time and money in making public domain material more readily available as part of their livelihood. > > > I don't see it being that big of a problem. One good thing about the public domain is it's really, really big. Only a small fraction of it has been reprinted/reissued. If you can't figure out a copyright issue on your own and can't afford a lawyer, or if it turns out it's illegal to reprint this particular work--just reprint something else. It's not like you are obligated to--or even able to--reprint everything in a certain area that is in the public domain. So you can cherry pick. Just do the material that you know won't get you into trouble. But, I can't quite see what the Big Pattern companies objecting to unauthorized use of their modern images has to do with reprinting works from the Renaissance, which is what you seem to me to want to do. There's no real legal connection. Fran ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 16:25:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97KPBIO007694 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:25:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97KNo76004214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:23:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97KNmfK011104; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:23:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt23.cluster1.charter.net (remt23.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97KNifK010914 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:23:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.169.191.177] (HELO charter.net) by remt23.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 18168007 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:23:36 -0400 Message-ID: <3F832074.F1FCFCA3@charter.net> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:22:12 -0500 From: Joe Robertson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Old tartan References: <6.0.0.14.0.20031007200716.01ef20c0@pop.ntlworld.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the reply. "There was a kind of patterned material, but it wasn't tartan as we know it. There are accounts of patterned or checked fabric..." It was this early sort of pattern that I am trying to find evidence of and sources for. Clan tartans were a much later invention, so I certainly had not intended to call mine a clan tartan. I am just trying to research what the patterns might have looked like and if some of the modern one's would be similar. Too bad there seem to be none in existence from the middle ages. Joe --- Joe Robertson, Psy.D. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 16:27:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97KRbIO007704 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:27:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97KPG76004357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:25:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97KPGfK012380; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:25:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt26.cluster1.charter.net (remt26.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97KPCfK012229 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:25:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.169.191.177] (HELO charter.net) by remt26.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 18106208 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:25:06 -0400 Message-ID: <3F8320CD.30A511CC@charter.net> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:23:41 -0500 From: Joe Robertson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Old tartan References: <20031007133348.78475.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks much. I will try to find this book. Joe --- Joe Robertson. Psy.D. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 16:36:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97KaRIO007736 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:36:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97KZ776005303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:35:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97KZ3fK021174; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:35:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt19.cluster1.charter.net (remt19.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97KYvfK021009 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:34:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.169.191.177] (HELO charter.net) by remt19.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 18224312 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:34:51 -0400 Message-ID: <3F832317.59DD8456@charter.net> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:33:27 -0500 From: Joe Robertson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Old tartan References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031006225043.02954ad8@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's one to laugh about. Check out the Ogilvie sett. Seriously, have a peak at Robertson red ancient. It is still bright without being "analine" bright. It was suggested to me not because it was a Robertson sett, but because it was unrecognizable and fairly simple. Joe --- Joe Robertson, Psy.D. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 16:50:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97KokIO007760 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:50:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97Kmc76006729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:48:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97KmZfK003111; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:48:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97KmVfK003009 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:48:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.bc.3e6b409b (15864) for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:46:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m04.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.132]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v96.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID63-3df83f8326213d; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:46:26 -0400 Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:46:25 -0400 From: Appin1@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Old tartan MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <67A02274.3650C085.00046E2D@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 199.206.254.69 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Stripes were very popular among the Celts too. Also check out the fabric remnants worn by Celtic-looking people that were found in Central Asia and western China. These were tartan and striped patterns, if I remember correctly. There are several books available on the archaeological finds (the titles of which escape me, of course). Kathleen Norvell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 16:54:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97KsJIO007768 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:54:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97Kqo76007068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:52:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97KqlfK006861; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:52:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97KqffK006641 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:52:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05D43425CE for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:55:27 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3F83279A.3000701@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:52:42 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lawsuit over the reselling of commercial patterns References: <001201c38cd7$46baa440$cf22a5d1@pavilion> <3F831A7E.9080703@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <3F831A7E.9080703@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just comments on what's been posted... >> > One thing I would be interested in knowing is whether the stores that > discarded the patterns claimed the patterns were "destroyed" and claimed > refunds from the pattern companies... [snippage] > Is there a similar returns system with sewing patterns from the Big > Pattern Companies? There was when I worked retail. The tissue was to be removed from the envelope, separated, and if possible, shredded. The envelopes -- or perhaps just the envelope flaps -- were returned to the manufacturer. I saw MonsterPatterns when they were selling patterns they'd got by dumpster-diving. They had the envelopes. It looked as if they'd collected patterns by the bagful out of the Joann's dumpster , and put scans of the images on their site. I can't recall if they were using some of the pictures from the Simplicty and McCall's websites, too. There are links from MonsterPatterns to their lawyer's website, where the court documents filed for this case have been posted as .pdfs. I read some of them this morning. > >> If the big pattern companies win, this would possibly mean no one >> would be able to post a picture of a book still under copyright on >> e-bay when they want to sell it without the risk of being successfully >> sued. You would be able to use a photo of the item that you took yourself. You would not be able to use the photo off the manufacturer's website or catalog. Which is how most companies interpret the law today. I've been following the lawsuit because the pattern companies are claiming infringement on their pattern images, which seems odd. You'd think they'd want their re-sellers to do their best to market the product, including using pictures of it. I realize they do have rights to restrict this use even when it does them no good. But I suspect that the real issue is that MonsterPatterns isn't a contracted reseller of patterns, and that's what's got McCall's and Simplicity riled up. They probably don't have any policies concerning 'unauthorized' resale of their product, so they slapped an IP infringement suit on them as harrassment. My concern is that right now I use a lot of those images myself on my pattern review pages. My reading of the copyright law is that protected material can be reproduced when it is being used in a review. I would prefer not to have the pattern companies scouring the web and denying everyone of any use of their images because this case left a sour taste in their mouth. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 16:58:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97KwhIO007777 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:58:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97KvR76007563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:57:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97KvOP1011325; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:57:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97KvJP1011250 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:57:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A6ytS-000594-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 13:57:18 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Gustav III' suit. Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:57:50 -0700 Message-ID: <002d01c38d15$ac11c060$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <002a01c38c4c$d911c750$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h97KvJP1011250 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow! I remember the suit now but had not realized there were those up close shots. What is the material inside some of the embroidery which looks like pools of blue and silver water? Is it mica? It wouldn't hurt to ask to link, though I can't imagine they would have a problem with it provided you explained what and who you were linking to. I doubt that the link is 'copyrightable'. You just can't copy the image and put it up on your own site... I am taking a class on copyright right now...it is very confusing sometimes! Thanks for the pics! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 17:29:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97LTiIO007872 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:29:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97LS076010298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97LRwP1008243; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:27:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41503.mail.yahoo.com (web41503.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h97LRsP1008038 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:27:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031007212748.25116.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41503.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 22:27:48 BST Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:27:48 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lawsuit over the reselling of commercial patterns To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F83279A.3000701@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Dawn wrote: > > My concern is that right now I use a lot of those images myself on my > pattern review pages. My reading of the copyright law is that protected > material can be reproduced when it is being used in a review. I would > prefer not to have the pattern companies scouring the web and denying > everyone of any use of their images because this case left a sour taste > in their mouth. You are allowed to use those images in the confines of the original meaning of Fair Use. When using them for critical purposes, reviews, recommendations, etc then yes, you are allowed to. I am not able to reproduce the exact wording, even if I weren't a non native speaker, but look on the net. Nicole ===== Cap'n Cat of the good ship 'Harlot' http://www.kipar.org/society/author/pirates/ Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 17:50:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97LoqIO007931 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:50:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97Lko76012157 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:46:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97LknP1024403; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:46:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.19.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97LkjP2024249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:46:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-97.sonic.net [209.148.112.97]) (authenticated bits=0)h97LkbSe015556 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:46:38 -0700 Message-ID: <3F8334DA.4070604@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:49:14 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lawsuit over the reselling of commercial patterns References: <001201c38cd7$46baa440$cf22a5d1@pavilion> <3F831A7E.9080703@lavoltapress.com> <3F83279A.3000701@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <3F83279A.3000701@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > There was when I worked retail. The tissue was to be removed from the envelope, separated, > > and if possible, shredded. The envelopes -- or perhaps just the envelope flaps -- were returned > > to the manufacturer. Presumably the envelopes were returned by the stores, and the pattern manufacturers gave the stores credit (that is, returned money the store paid or owed for the patterns, because the patterns did not sell after all). So the sale of these patterns is not authorized by the pattern companies, who expected them to be destroyed, and who are not being paid for them. > > I saw MonsterPatterns when they were selling patterns they'd got by > dumpster-diving. They had the envelopes. It looked as if they'd > collected patterns by the bagful out of the Joann's dumpster , and put > scans of the images on their site. I can't recall if they were using > some of the pictures from the Simplicty and McCall's websites, too. I have a very dim memory of this, but I think there is some question as to the legality of dumpster diving. I'm not sure someone's wanting stuff to be picked up by the local garbage collectors, legally translates into permission for pickup by anyone at all. > > You would be able to use a photo of the item that you took yourself. > You would not be able to use the photo off the manufacturer's website > or catalog. Which is how most companies interpret the law today. Yes, I believe so. The same with marketing copy. > > > > I've been following the lawsuit because the pattern companies are > claiming infringement on their pattern images, which seems odd. You'd > think they'd want their re-sellers to do their best to market the > product, including using pictures of it. If MonsterPatterns got the patterns by dumpster diving, they are not an authorized reseller. Fabric stores, and other retailers the pattern comany sells to directly, are authorized resellers. I suspect the pattern companies feel fine about _them_ using the images. > I realize they do have rights to restrict this use even when it does > them no good. But I suspect that the real issue is that > MonsterPatterns isn't a contracted reseller of patterns, and that's > what's got McCall's and Simplicity riled up. They probably don't have > any policies concerning 'unauthorized' resale of their product, so > they slapped an IP infringement suit on them as harrassment. Well, it is an unauthorized sale if the fabric store falsely claims the patterns were destroyed, gets credit/money for them, and then the same patterns show up on the market and no money goes to the pattern company. I can understand why the pattern companies are annoyed. > > > My concern is that right now I use a lot of those images myself on my > pattern review pages. My reading of the copyright law is that > protected material can be reproduced when it is being used in a > review. I would prefer not to have the pattern companies scouring the > web and denying everyone of any use of their images because this case > left a sour taste in their mouth. > Why not invite the companies to visit your site, and ask them if your use is OK? If it's not legal, you'll be doing the right thing by asking permission and taking down the images if you don't get it. If it is legal, you can quit worrying about it. Fran > > ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 18:14:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97MEgIO007975 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:14:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97MDT76014578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:13:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97MDR23016961; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:13:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97MDO23016898 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:13:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7055-0002ZN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:13:23 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:13:55 -0700 Message-ID: <001201c38d20$4cd12270$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Kid leather for binding corsets? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I know some of you have used kid leather to bind the edges of your corsets. Where do you get your leather from. (US suppliers.I guess Canada is fine as well) Sg Thanks _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 19:15:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97NF7IO008160 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:15:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97NBw76019458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:11:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97NBpl6001345; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:11:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12002.mail.yahoo.com (web12002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.210]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h97NBll6001309 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:11:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031007231147.50998.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.234] by web12002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:11:47 PDT Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:11:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Luther the movie X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We went and saw the movie Luther yesterday. The clothing looked good for the period but this is not my time period or country. I liked some of his wife's dresses towards the end so now I have to go look at German/Austrian/Holy Roman Empire clothes sources. Some one else on list said something about the lack of attendents so I looked for this while watching. There were several scenes where important people were alone with other characters but I got the impression that these were private audiences while the other scenes had lots of attendents. The dressing the Pope scene has me curious as to whether they got the undergarments correct. Any comments? Cassandra __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 20:03:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9803cIO008245 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:03:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9801876023259 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:01:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h980169J000272; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:01:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.thibault.org [66.92.75.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h980119K000174 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:01:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by sergyar.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h9808RQG003467 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:08:27 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by sergyar.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:08:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F8353E9.2040404@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:01:45 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lawsuit over the reselling of commercial patterns References: <001201c38cd7$46baa440$cf22a5d1@pavilion> <3F831A7E.9080703@lavoltapress.com> <3F83279A.3000701@reddawn.net> <3F8334DA.4070604@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <3F8334DA.4070604@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran Grimble wrote: > Well, it is an unauthorized sale if the fabric store falsely claims the > patterns were destroyed, gets credit/money for them, and then the same > patterns show up on the market and no money goes to the pattern > company. I can understand why the pattern companies are annoyed. Right, because that's (more or less) theft. The thing I'd like to know is: Is this about theft as described, but about any resale (as if they'd got them all from someone's garage sale or other legitimate means), and if it's about plain resale, how does it differ from reselling any other creative item, like books? On the related note of copyright, I have found these pages useful. The first, for "current thinking" on use of photos of ancient art and the second for "what is a derivative work?" http://www.panix.com/~squigle/rarin/corel2.html -- The Bridgeman vs. Corel decision 1999 http://www.artslaw.org/DERIV.HTM -- Other good stuff on this site. I read all the stuff at CafePress before I did the two T-shirt designs, but it didn't address the "photos of flat ancient art" issue; the above is what I found that made me fairly sure I was within the law. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. -- Noam Chomsky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 20:05:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9805FIO008249 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:05:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9802W76023384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:02:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9802W9J000989; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:02:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.thibault.org [66.92.75.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h980259K000728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:02:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by sergyar.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h9809VQG003493 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:09:31 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by sergyar.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:09:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F833209.4020702@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:37:13 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian dress on "Antiques Roadshow" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote: > Any Victoriana fans in the UK see "Antiques Roadshow" last night? > Someone produced an 1860s bodice and skirt which a friend had passed on > to them when she moved to a smaller house. It was in salmon pink and > silver - a bit insipid for my taste, but the condition of the garments > was amazingly good. How much did they price it at? I've got a few things in very good condition that were in the family.... -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. -- Noam Chomsky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 20:05:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9805LIO008252 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:05:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9802576023339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:02:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h980259J000775; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:02:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.thibault.org [66.92.75.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h980219K000670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:02:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by sergyar.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h9809RQG003479 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:09:27 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by sergyar.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:09:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F833203.9000801@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:37:07 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustav III' suit. References: <002301c38c34$7bc51f10$6501a8c0@SG01> <002a01c38c4c$d911c750$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <002a01c38c4c$d911c750$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Klarbild/GIII/T008299_hel.jpg Wow. Even from a modern perspective, where it's easy to be glitzy, that is an amazing suit! And then to think about the effort that went into it, and the effect it must have had when worn! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. -- Noam Chomsky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 20:32:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h980WTIO008365 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:32:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h980VD76025546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:31:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h980VA9J015560; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:31:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from obsidian.spiritone.com (obsidian.spiritone.com [216.99.193.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h980V79K015538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:31:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0)h980Wh0I011255 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:32:45 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] ILL comes through Again! Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:34:14 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20031006210032.03110888@pop.surewest.net> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ref: Progress, etc. OH! Lucky you. :-) I've been looking now that I know that it exists, but no one has a copy except possibly Amazon. Even with Amazon, I suspect they are being optimistic and hoping they can get the books if you order. I'll definitely keep an eye out. Isn't there some book searcher that has a "want list" option? Regina > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Joan Jurancich > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 9:02 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: [h-cost] ILL comes through Again! > > > I got a copy of the reprint volumes for about $100 just two years ago. I > got them via ABEbooks. > Joan Jurancich > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 20:47:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h980l2IO008420 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:47:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h980k176026557 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h980jx9J023572; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:45:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h980ju9J023536 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:45:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-33qtk0p.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.208.25] helo=pavilion) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A72Sh-0001TA-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:45:55 -0700 Message-ID: <002601c38d36$10ee29e0$19d0aec7@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001201c38cd7$46baa440$cf22a5d1@pavilion> <3F831A7E.9080703@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lawsuit over the reselling of commercial patterns Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:49:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran wrote: > But, I can't quite see what the Big Pattern companies objecting to > unauthorized use of their modern images has to do with reprinting works > from the Renaissance, which is what you seem to me to want to do. > There's no real legal connection. > It doesn't, they have nothing to do with each other, but being pressed for time as I always am, I often don't proof read the emails I send or check carefully enough for cohesion in my thoughts. I was just thinking about both subjects at the same time. Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 20:53:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h980rBIO008429 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:53:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h980kY76026609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:46:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h980kX9J023917; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:46:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h980jw9J023497 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:45:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1d7.11b8fdff (4446) for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:45:39 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1d7.11b8fdff.2cb4b833@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:45:39 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] ILL comes through Again! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/7/2003 8:32:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, wandap@hevanet.com writes: I'll definitely keep an eye out. Isn't there some book searcher that has a "want list" option? I haven't used it in a while, but I believe ABE has one. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 21:28:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h981S4IO008500 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:28:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h981Pp76028882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:25:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h981PmH3014461; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:25:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from obsidian.spiritone.com (obsidian.spiritone.com [216.99.193.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h981PiH4014421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:25:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0)h981RL0K006984 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:27:22 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] ILL comes through Again! Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:28:51 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <1d7.11b8fdff.2cb4b833@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ABE does have a "want list" option. Thanks for the tip. I will still xerox these if I can, but real, hard bound would be preferable! Regina > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of AnnBWass@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 5:46 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] ILL comes through Again! > > > In a message dated 10/7/2003 8:32:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, > wandap@hevanet.com writes: > I'll definitely keep an eye out. Isn't there some book searcher > that has a > "want list" option? > I haven't used it in a while, but I believe ABE has one. > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 21:31:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h981VUIO008519 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:31:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h981Sc76029092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:28:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h981SbH3016015; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:28:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h981SZH3015992 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:28:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-42-161.jps.net ([209.165.42.161] helo=pavilion) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A737y-0000ui-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 18:28:34 -0700 Message-ID: <003b01c38d3c$0608cca0$19d0aec7@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:32:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] partial EEBO subscriptions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h981VUIO008519 Status: RO I was looking at the EEBO subsciption section and noticed that they offer subscriptions for segments of the database. So perhaps Nocole's department could subscribe to the "gender studies" portion for a reduced fee. I know the price is pretty steep but I bet it costs a pretty penny to put together. Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 21:55:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h981tLIO008692 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:55:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h981pS76000513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:51:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h981pQH3028047; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:51:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h981pLH3027992 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:51:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.238.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.238] helo=4gxif) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A73U0-00056u-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 21:51:20 -0400 Message-ID: <047c01c38d3e$a34c9620$eef74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] ILL comes through Again! Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:51:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's three that do: Abebooks www.abebooks.com/ Go to your account, click on "Your Wants". Half.com http://half.ebay.com/index.jsp?ad=10902&ssPageName=HHL01 Search for the book, add it to your wish list; they notify when one comes in if it isn't currently in stock. Powell's http://www.powells.com/ Search for the book, click on "Notify Me". Hope this helps, -Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 22:00:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9820AIO008703 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:00:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h981we76000895 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:58:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h981wdD4001574; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:58:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h981wZD5001531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:58:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h981xiT0029038 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:59:44 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h981xh3Z029036 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:59:43 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] ILL comes through Again! Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:59:43 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <1d7.11b8fdff.2cb4b833@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1d7.11b8fdff.2cb4b833@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310072159.43551.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 07 October 2003 08:45 pm, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/7/2003 8:32:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, > wandap@hevanet.com writes: > I'll definitely keep an eye out. Isn't there some book searcher that has a > "want list" option? > I haven't used it in a while, but I believe ABE has one. Alibris does too. -- Cathy Raymond "Adult life seems to be a cross between a zen koan and a cattle stampede." --Ozy and Millie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 22:07:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9827kIO008719 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:07:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9827076001408 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9826xD4005705; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:06:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9826uD4005673 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:06:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.238.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.238] helo=4gxif) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A73j4-0005oi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 22:06:55 -0400 Message-ID: <04c001c38d40$d7613040$eef74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <67A02274.3650C085.00046E2D@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Old tartan Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:06:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kathleen wrote: > Stripes were very popular among the Celts too. Also check out the fabric remnants worn by Celtic-looking people that were found in Central Asia and western China. These were tartan and striped patterns, if I remember correctly. There are several books available on the archaeological finds (the titles of which escape me, of course). I think the books you're referring to are both by Elizabeth Wayland Barber- "Women's Work: the First 20,000 Years; Women, Cloth, and Society in the Early Times" (ISBN: 0393313484), "The Mummies of Urumchi" (ISBN: 0393320197), and "Prehistoric Textiles: the Development of Cloth in the Neolithic and Bronze Ages with Special Reference to the Aegean" (ISBN: 069100224X). All three are currently available in paperback. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 22:49:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h982nbIO008777 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:49:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h982lN76003839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:47:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h982lKD4025710; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:47:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h982lID4025693 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:47:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-43-013.jps.net ([209.165.43.13]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A74M9-0000f6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 22:47:17 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:23:36 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] RE: ILL comes through Again! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 5:34 PM -0700 10/7/03, Wanda Pease wrote: >I'll definitely keep an eye out. Isn't there some book searcher that has a >"want list" option? Alibris does as well, and I've actually had more successful "hits" from them. So does Half.com, for that matter, though I get the feeling they're unlikely to come up with anything this old or this valuable. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 22:49:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h982nbIO008778 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:49:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h982lt76003884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:47:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h982ltD4026001; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:47:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h982lKD4025711 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:47:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-43-013.jps.net ([209.165.43.13]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A74MA-0000f6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 22:47:19 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20031007.075523.1772.3.Cley@juno.com> References: <20031007.075523.1772.3.Cley@juno.com> Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:38:41 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chenille thread Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 7:43 AM -0700 10/7/03, Cynthia J Ley wrote: >Chris Laning writes: >> Usually in English, "underside couching" refers to something a > > little different -- the thin thread that is doing the couching stitches > > comes up from under the fabric, over the big thread, and then goes >> back down into the same hole in the fabric that it came out of. It > > is then pulled tight, so a little loop of the big thread is pulled down > >How does this differ from Or nue? In Or Nué, the gold thread is all laid on the surface, in close parallel rows so that none of the background shows. It is first surface-couched with matching thread. None of it is pulled down through the fabric. Then, _over_ the gold thread, stitches are taken in colored silk -- close together in the dark or shadowed areas, far apart in the light areas, to create the pattern. You have to do a whole layer of gold work first and can only _then_ start to do the "real" design, so not only does it take skill, but a lot of patience. (I've seen people recommend doing Or Nue all in one step -- i.e. laying gold thread on the surface and couching it down with colored silk -- but I don't believe it was done that way in period, and I'd think it would be lots harder to keep the rows of gold even and straight.) It's easy to confuse Opus Anglicanum and Or Nué if you've never seen them at end-of-your-nose close distance, especially since most of us have never had the opportunity to take a class in either technique. They were both used to make very rich embroideries with lots of gold in the background. However, not all people describing such embroideries actually know what they are talking about :(, so they sometimes use confusing ways of describing them... :) A well-known magazine a few years ago described Or Nué as "Or Nu," for instance, which would have meant "Naked Gold." Actually Or Nué means "Gold Shaded" (compare Nué with the word "nuance"). However the two techniques were at their height (in terms of design and craftsmanship) in slightly different times and places; the best Opus Anglicanum is generally thought to have been done in the 12th and 13th centuries in Britain, and the best Or Nué in the 14th and perhaps 15th century on the European continent. I suppose it's possible that the people who invented Or Nué were actually trying to imitate the older art, since underside couching had pretty much died out as a technique by the time Or Nué became prominent. Hope that helps . . . -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 7 23:15:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h983FuIO008817 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:15:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h983ES76005338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:14:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h983EQhR009346; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:14:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h983DEhS008531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:13:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (acty2104.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.243.104]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h983DC2J006319 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:13:12 -0400 Message-ID: <3F8380C7.6030703@dandy.net> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:13:11 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Old tartan References: <30.481dd632.2cb39dd7@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <30.481dd632.2cb39dd7@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. Kathy, on that note, I went with Leigh and the boys to Stitches East (knitting event held in AC). we met a lady there that teaches classes on mushroom and lichen dyes in historical use. She and I spent about 20 min. talking about lichen dyes of the Western Isles. She lives in Virginia, and says she does classes. Perhaps interested parties could be gathered for discussions. Some of the lichen dyes were vibrant! We can talk (you, me, Mara, Terry B. and anyone else interested) at St. Maries at more length. If we get together a group for a class, we'll post it to H-cost, OK? Cheers, Mike T. Appin1@aol.com wrote: >If you can find a copy of John Telfer Dunbar's History of Highland Dress >(Batsford, London, 1972), you will see color prints of pre-1745 tartan. There is a >John Telfer Dunbar Collection that contains these tartans, but I don't know >where the collection is housed. > >The tartans are very bright and colorful. If you can't find the book, let me >know and I will scan the pictures of the tartans. > >For historical purposes, I would choose an irregular sett, and try to pick an >unrecognizable pattern if you can ("Clan McRemnant"). Try to avoid obvious >ones like Royal Stewart, Black Watch, or "Loud McCloud." > >Kathleen Norvell >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 00:38:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h984c6IO008973 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:38:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h984bK76009770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:37:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h984bIEC017475; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:37:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lycos.com (www3.mail.lycos.com [209.202.220.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h984bBEC017385 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:37:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 04:36:57 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 00:36:57 -0400 From: "Katie Lewis" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval sleeve question X-Sender-Ip: 129.219.101.133 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO DATE: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:30:49 From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" Cc: >Hi, >I'm reading som Arthurian legends and books on the subject of chivalry. >There is this intriguing custom of giving a sleeve as a favor to a knight so >that he can bear it into battle. That's present at least in one 12th century >story (I think it's 12th C) where a girl says that her sleeves are much too >small and she'll need to find something bigger to give. FWIW in _Parsifal_ by Wolfram von Esenbach (which having no German I've only read in the Penguin English translation) a lady has a gown made without one sleeve. This sleeve is then given to Parsifal as a favor. In the same book, a lady has the habit of giving an entire chemise to her husband as a favor. He wears it over his armor when he fights in tournaments, and is thus protected by her love. When he comes back from tourney she puts on the hacked up chemise back on, in the privacy of their chamber of course ;) -Katie --- Willow: No, Ma, hear this! I'm a rebel! I'm having a rebellion! Sheila: Willow, honey, you don't need to act out like this to prove your specialness. Willow: Mom, I'm not acting out. I'm a witch! I-I can make pencils float. And I can summon the four elements. Okay, two, but four soon. A-and I'm dating a musician.I worship Beelzebub. I do his biddings. Do you see any goats around? No, because I sacrificed them. Sheila:I'm not listening to this. Willow:Prince of Night, I summon you. Come fill me with your black, naughty evil. ____________________________________________________________ Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 00:41:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h984fuIO008998 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:41:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h984ee76010025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:40:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h984edEC018858; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:40:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h984eaEC018783 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:40:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.ac.48aa6eab (2519) for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:40:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:40:23 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Old tartan To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 912 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks. That's exactly what I was trying to think of. Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 00:50:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h984odIO009113 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:50:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h984ew76010061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:40:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h984ewEC018994; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:40:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h984ejEC018870 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:40:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A3C4CA200B2; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:34:12 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A3C83740082; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:34:16 -0500 Message-ID: <017301c38d56$c20335c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031007231147.50998.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Luther the movie Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:43:45 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: OSRELAY: Please stop using relays.osirusoft.com X-RBL-Warning: WEIGHT5: Weight of 5 reaches or exceeds the limit of 5. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cassandra, I have found some wonderful history of vestments at: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14301a.htm This site also links frequently to another site that provides a lot of details on vestments. So look for external links within the text. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cascio Michael" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 7:11 PM Subject: [h-cost] Luther the movie > We went and saw the movie Luther yesterday. The > clothing looked good for the period but this is not my > time period or country. I liked some of his wife's > dresses towards the end so now I have to go look at > German/Austrian/Holy Roman Empire clothes sources. > Some one else on list said something about the lack of > attendents so I looked for this while watching. There > were several scenes where important people were alone > with other characters but I got the impression that > these were private audiences while the other scenes > had lots of attendents. The dressing the Pope scene > has me curious as to whether they got the > undergarments correct. Any comments? > Cassandra > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 00:57:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h984vhIO009257 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:57:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h984uj76010805 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:56:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h984uhFW025772; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:56:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h984ufFW025726 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:56:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from JKS18@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.172.20af3e66 (16781) for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:56:33 -0400 (EDT) From: JKS18@aol.com Message-ID: <172.20af3e66.2cb4f300@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:56:32 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 39 Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 634 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have tried to unsubscribe and tried. PUHLEASE unsubscribe me. I have gone to the website, sent to the email address advised and still am subscribed. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 00:58:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h984wxIO009261 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:58:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h984vj76010850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:57:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h984vjFW026219; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:57:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h984vhFW026188 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:57:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a261.in-tch.com [66.62.107.61]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h984b4420048 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:37:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F8399D1.652B28F@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:00:01 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kid leather for binding corsets? References: <001201c38d20$4cd12270$6501a8c0@SG01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I didn't buy kid leather for my binding, I got chamois leather. Thin, flexible, washable. Didn't come in anything except "leather" color, though. ;-( --sue "Saragrace T. Knauf" wrote: > > Hi all, I know some of you have used kid leather to bind the edges of your > corsets. Where do you get your leather from. (US suppliers.I guess Canada > is fine as well) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 01:03:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9853WIO009278 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:03:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9852i76011099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:02:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9852hFW028273; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:02:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9852eFW028195 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:02:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A8E7103400B0; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:56:07 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A8EC39C0082; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:56:12 -0500 Message-ID: <018201c38d59$d1a0fbe0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001201c38cd7$46baa440$cf22a5d1@pavilion><3F831A7E.9080703@lavoltapress.com> <3F83279A.3000701@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lawsuit over the reselling of commercial patterns Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:05:39 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: OSRELAY: Please stop using relays.osirusoft.com X-RBL-Warning: WEIGHT5: Weight of 5 reaches or exceeds the limit of 5. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I do recall on one of the email lists I am on, that someone had copies of patterns on their website. I wrote the lady personally and asked about it. She paid $75 per image to the pattern companies to put them online. She said this was a discounted price because someone in the family worked for the companies. Now, if you have a commercial website and using the pattern companies names or logos, or any other business, you can get sued for Trademark Infringement (TI). This is true especially if you put the companies name in your meta tags or webpage title. Due to the fact that search engines are picking up the words in the tags. I receive a weekly newsletter about internet lawsuits.... the amount of lawsuits over the past five years for this type of TI is unbelievable. Now when I say commercial, I mean receiving any money at all off the website, even by having banner ads on your site is considered making money. (If you have a Tripod or Geocities website the ads are under their control not yours.) This is one legal tactic the music industry is using against the music download sites. They are receiving money from the spyware used and ads. If you are going through an affiliate marketing program, such as Linkshare or Amazon, the permissions were granted in the agreement/contract you signed with them. I talked a long time ago with Vogue/Butterick patterns about joining up with an affiliate marketing program, so that people could sell their patterns online. They were interested and wanted me to get back with a proposal. At the time, I got busy and never got around to it. Maybe someone else would like to venture down that avenue. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 01:16:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h985GoIO009303 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:16:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h985Fn76011764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:15:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h985FlFW004266; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:15:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h985FiFW004205 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:15:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003100805153801300qmmr3e>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 05:15:39 +0000 Message-ID: <265201c38d5b$43d32fc0$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001201c38d20$4cd12270$6501a8c0@SG01> <3F8399D1.652B28F@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kid leather for binding corsets? Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:15:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A source for chamois leather, and do not fall too hard off your chairs when you read what I am about to type, is Wal-mart. In the car section there is are chamois leather "car dry clothes". They use them to wipe off moisture from the car after it has been washed. It is what I use for some of my classes for teaching. Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 12:00 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kid leather for binding corsets? : I didn't buy kid leather for my binding, I got chamois leather. Thin, : flexible, washable. Didn't come in anything except "leather" color, : though. ;-( : --sue : : "Saragrace T. Knauf" wrote: : > : > Hi all, I know some of you have used kid leather to bind the edges of your : > corsets. Where do you get your leather from. (US suppliers.I guess Canada : > is fine as well) : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 01:32:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h985W6IO009336 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:32:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h985VC76012545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:31:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h985VAFW010640; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:31:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h985V7FW010579 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:31:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AF92309F0088; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 00:24:34 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AF9824D0216; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 00:24:40 -0500 Message-ID: <01b101c38d5d$c93b7da0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001201c38cd7$46baa440$cf22a5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lawsuit over the reselling of commercial patterns Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:34:03 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: OSRELAY: Please stop using relays.osirusoft.com X-RBL-Warning: WEIGHT5: Weight of 5 reaches or exceeds the limit of 5. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here is a site that has links to the lawsuits... each company was suing one another: http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/McCalls/mccalls.html I wonder if they settled out of court or if it went to trial. I didn't find anything else on the web about the suit but the two articles mentioned. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 01:33:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h985XVIO009339 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:33:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h984ZM76009693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:35:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h984ZJEC016716; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:35:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h984ZGEC016655 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:35:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A27AFFD00B0; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:28:42 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A27F3640082; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:28:47 -0500 Message-ID: <015701c38d55$fdf90d80$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001201c38cd7$46baa440$cf22a5d1@pavilion><3F831A7E.9080703@lavoltapress.com><3F83279A.3000701@reddawn.net> <3F8334DA.4070604@lavoltapress.com> <3F8353E9.2040404@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lawsuit over the reselling of commercial patterns Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:38:16 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: OSRELAY: Please stop using relays.osirusoft.com X-RBL-Warning: WEIGHT5: Weight of 5 reaches or exceeds the limit of 5. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia, Thank you for the wonderful links. I filed them under my copyright favorites. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 01:41:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h985f6IO009351 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:41:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h985cC76012825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:38:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h985cBFW013499; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:38:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h985c8FW013420 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:38:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A13730C00088; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 00:31:35 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A13C25C0216; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 00:31:40 -0500 Message-ID: <01b601c38d5e$c2f53d40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001201c38cd7$46baa440$cf22a5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lawsuit over the reselling of commercial patterns Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:41:02 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: OSRELAY: Please stop using relays.osirusoft.com X-RBL-Warning: WEIGHT5: Weight of 5 reaches or exceeds the limit of 5. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I found one dated June 3... but no settlement at that time. http://www.microenterprisejournal.com/articles/legal/20030602.html I heard on the news today about a lawsuit with closeout stores and Mattel about selling expensive Barbies cheap. I'd like to see what happens with this one too. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 02:01:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9861EIO009491 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:01:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h985wa76016594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:58:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h985wYoA024365; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:58:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt7.ihug.co.nz (grunt7.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h985wVoA024322 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:58:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p73-nas12.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.205.73] by grunt7.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A77LA-0008Mi-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 18:58:29 +1300 Message-ID: <005b01c38d61$30139640$49cdadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031007231147.50998.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Luther the movie Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:58:15 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > We went and saw the movie Luther yesterday. The > clothing looked good for the period but this is not my > time period or country. I liked some of his wife's > dresses towards the end so now I have to go look at > German/Austrian/Holy Roman Empire clothes sources. http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com I even have a few links to portraits of Catherine von Bora (often as an acompanment to a Luther portrait.) And now I see why there are a number of portraits of her by Cranach: http://www.wittenberg.de/e/seiten/personen/bora.html I was very pleased to see they used Z lacing for her plastron gown in the promotional material. It's a point often overlooked in modern interpretations. I've been hankering after this movie for a while now, and I have no idea when it will open here, if at all. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 02:26:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h986QGIO018958 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:26:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h986Oj76020695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:24:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h986OioA007008; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:24:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h986OfoA006986 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:24:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p73-nas12.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.205.73] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A77kS-0005rK-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 19:24:37 +1300 Message-ID: <007001c38d64$dcbb1500$49cdadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c38b52$ec47bf50$6501a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Circle skirts... Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:24:42 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Sooooo finally, my discussions point or question is this....what are your > observations and research telling you about the use of circle skirts. We > know that at least some of the Waffenrocks were cut in truncated triangles > which eventually led to a circular skirt and that some of the patterns in > Juan Algacea's patterns are at least modified circles. We discussed that a > dressmaker would probably have the skills, but what about the middle > classes? What waffenrock patterns/extant garments are these? I've only ever seen the one in Blanche Payne's book which is cut in one (or two, I never did figure out if it was on the fold or what.) I have seen a theatrical book with top and tailed rannow trapeze shapes to mimic the pleats in German Ren. costume (though the portrait they used actually is more likely to be stacked or rolled pleats because of the way they fall at the hem.) Honestly I think the circle was an aim rather than a set shape. What I mean is that the ideal was for a full circular shape (those bases, Mary of Hungary's dress and a skirted doublet of the late 15thC are all extant garments with a full circle and many paintings so what has to be a circle with sunray pleating etc) but as it uses so much fabric how many people of lesser means could afford it? If you top and tail wedges of circles you can get the effect (full hem little bulk at the waist) you can also save fabric. And we are dealing with a time when fabric was much much more expensive than it is now so you want to conserve fabric. My Leyden dress utilised this idea. The front panels (skirt and bodice in one) were top and tailed with the back skirt. The side seams being on an angle. http://costumes.glittersweet.com/leyden.htm michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 04:10:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h988ABIO026005 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:10:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9888E76029170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:08:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9888BXh022696; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:08:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98887Xh022665 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:08:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h98892A15833.; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:09:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:08:06 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:07:39 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian dress on "Antiques Roadshow" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> cvirtue+dated+1081123770.b9fa76@thibault.org 10/07/03 10:37pm >>> Kate M Bunting wrote: >> Any Victoriana fans in the UK see "Antiques Roadshow" last night? >> Someone produced an 1860s bodice and skirt which a friend had >>passed on to them when she moved to a smaller house. It was in salmon >>pink and silver - a bit insipid for my taste, but the condition of the >>garments was amazingly good. >How much did they price it at? I've got a few things in very good >condition that were in the family.... I can't remember for certain (cynics say that viewers are only interested in the prices, but I watch it for the human interest!) I think it was getting on for 1000 pounds, though. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 04:27:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h988RYIO029352 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:27:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h988Qj76029792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:26:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h988QhXh029663; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:26:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41509.mail.yahoo.com (web41509.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h988QgXh029641 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:26:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031008082636.35456.qmail@web41509.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41509.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:26:36 BST Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:26:36 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] partial EEBO subscriptions To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <003b01c38d3c$0608cca0$19d0aec7@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Lisa Sinervo wrote: > I was looking at the EEBO subsciption section and noticed that they offer > subscriptions for segments of the database. So perhaps Nocole's department > could subscribe to the "gender studies" portion for a reduced fee. I know > the price is pretty steep but I bet it costs a pretty penny to put together. Thank you Lisa, that's very kind of you to send the info out. Gender Studies wouldn't do, because it would have to be 16th & 17th c. literature. However, I'll pass that onto my supervisor. I still think they should stagger the price, it is unfair to keep information away and under control of those who have a lot of money. Nicole ===== Cap'n Cat of the good ship 'Harlot' http://www.kipar.org/society/author/pirates/ Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 04:57:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h988v1IO011457 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:57:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h988uH76001009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:56:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h988uGao010823; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:56:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h988uEao010805 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:56:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f4f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.79]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1CBD65EE281 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:56:13 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c38d7a$7f9ba860$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:59:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] clouds on Gustav III's suit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Saragrace. You asked what the clouds on the suit was made of. It is called Paillons. Paillons are colored spangles cut from thin sheets of silver and varnished in different colours. Larger than paillettes, they are sometimes colored by workers after being sewn in place. Paillons can be attached either by stitching the frisure in the holes that border the pallion or by running small stitches of bouillon between the holes. A good effect can be achieved by covering them partially with matching silk thread sewn at an angle and revealing part og the paillon. When embroidering areas of shadow on the background one must not use paillons wich are pierced along their edges. I had this information from "Art of the Embroiderer" by Charles Germain de Saint-Aubin. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 06:35:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98AZYIO015904 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:35:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98AYV76005088 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:34:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98AYTPC013028; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:34:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98AYNPC012997 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:34:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p1258-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.196.242] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A7Be8-0001GB-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 23:34:21 +1300 Message-ID: <000f01c38d87$bf35c7a0$f2c4adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031007231147.50998.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:34:25 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] costume books I've just boaght, and why costuming is taking a back seat now:( X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Firstly on Monday I bought some books.. Now usually when i got to The Hard to Find (but worth the effort) Bookstore they have no costume or history books I want.. Well on Monday they did... I even had to put some back. In the end I bought: Historic Costume, by Lester. Terrible line drawings and it icludes a so called metal corset drawing and the corset is most likely to be a Victorian fantasy recreation like those chastity belts. The Perfect Lady, C.W.Cunnington. Published in 1948 includes photos of real garments being worn by real women. It's makes the historian in me cringe but I haven't seen some of these garments before. Anne of Cleves, by Mary Saalar (I think.) Nice list in there of what she got after the divorce/annullment mentions her wearing English costume soonish after arriving in England. Elizabeth, The Exhibition at the National Maritime Museum. Actually only very recently published so I have no idea how this mint condition book with mint dust jacket got into a used book store. The Woman Beautiful, or Maidenhood, Mariage and Maternity. Published pre WWI on everything a woman "needs" to know. So there is information on how you should dress, flirt and find a marriage partner. Or indeed to not marry. There are amazing anotomical etchings in there and a flip thing of the organs of a woman. She's pregant of course as that's the natural state for a woman;) Also I know we've discussed menstruation on this list before in relation to costuming.. this book suggests the menses is nothing more than a little fluid and only if you are "diseased" then there is much blood and last for several days. Hands up anyone who would like to live in that fantasy world.... And today I got my xrays back from my trip at the beginning of September. Now I knew I had joint space loss in my wrists. And the pain was enough if not the report of the radiologist. But when I saw the results for myself I had to have a wee cry: http://glittersweet.com/left1.jpg http://glittersweet.com/left2.jpg http://glittersweet.com/right1.jpg http://glittersweet.com/right2.jpg It's nearly bone on bone between the radius and carpal bone things. So sewing is extremely painful, and actually detrimental to my wrists. I have no idea how much sewing I'm capable of doing, but recently I've been able to sew about a seam a day. With a day or two between. Typical timing too. I have been asked to make several costumes, and to help costumea short film with a fantasy/futuristic feel to it. I haven't turned it down, but I hope the workload won't be too much. As a final up note, I also took a photo today: http://glittersweet.com/radio.jpg Trying to work out what it is? It's a radio toilet roll holder. So classy I know. But I think it is original to our house which was built in 1949. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 06:46:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98AkCIO015928 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:46:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98AhD76005488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:43:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98AhCPC016106; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:43:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.thibault.org [66.92.75.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98Ah9PD016002 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:43:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by sergyar.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h98AoaQG005786 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:50:36 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by sergyar.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 06:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F83EA67.7040508@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 06:43:51 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian dress on "Antiques Roadshow" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote: > I can't remember for certain (cynics say that viewers are only > interested in the prices, but I watch it for the human interest!) I > think it was getting on for 1000 pounds, though. Thanks! I watch it for the history lessons -- and the interest of the price also. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. -- Noam Chomsky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 07:44:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98BidIO016286 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:44:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98Bg076008203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 05:42:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98BfuC6009402; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 05:41:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98BfrC7009379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 05:41:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (acty5177.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.250.177]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h98Bfo2J016862 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:41:51 -0400 Message-ID: <3F83F7FC.2060407@dandy.net> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 07:41:48 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] italian renn job - off topic References: <008801c38cff$987cca10$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> In-Reply-To: <008801c38cff$987cca10$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. As a person that works in a casino-hotel in Atlantic City, and works closely with the Marketing/Banquets/Special Events Depts., I would guess that this person was running with a half-baked idea that they got from their boss, which was in turn dreamt up in some executive meeting. The execs usually have a meeting every week, and seek to be encouraged to free-form ideas that aren't necessarily practical. I can't tell you how many times a really impractical (and sometimes just plain hilarious) idea has been sent down to us to see if we could do it. We usually respond by saying "Of course we can do this, but it will cost you $$$", which usually puts out their ardour rather nicely. They love pretty things, but are usually loathe to pay for them. BTW, I hadn't heard that this was a casino, or I'd have warned you. The one department (Special Events, usually) takes, but the other (Purchasing) that gives (your payment), is notoriously slow. You might, if lucky, get paid in 3 months. Sometimes, they also get quotes from a number of people as a way to force a business they already plan on dealing with to lower their spec. on a job. Another problem is that sometimes an executive's spouse is hired by the company as the head of Special Events/Banquets, assumedly because they know how to throw a good party/know who to call for catering, etc. Not only can they do no wrong, but they are usually clueless, and have no people skills to speak of... Mike T. speaking from years of experience PS All this said, Steve Wynn is still probably one of the more trustworthy names to work for, he will respond directly to problems/complaints, and *is* a real people person. angelalazear wrote: >Sorry to send this to the full list, but there were so many responses I >wanted to get the information out right away, and was afraid I might not >have kept a complete list of those who responded. Lisa Sinervo, if you'd >post to your list as well, this way everyone will be sure to get the info. > >The lady from the Bellagio has not responded to my last three emails as of >this morning. She was either shooting off her mouth with no info, or has >apparently changed her mind, or has no concept of the magnitude of the >project. I am going to say at this point that her offer was not fully >informed and that there probably isn't a genuine interest on the part of >Steve Wynn or his agents to get this project completed. > >So sorry to have wasted any of your time, but will defnitely keep your names >for future projects as they arise, should they be genuine. > >angela >+++++ >Angela F. Lazear >Cabbage Rose Costumes >Theatrical Costume Design >"Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: >be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, >and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: >be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." >W. Shakespeare > >http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 08:15:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98CFCIO016386 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:15:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98CCo76010112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:12:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98CCmBv021537; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:12:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98CCkBv021491 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:12:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.f.1a099683 (3964) for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:12:34 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:12:34 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Overstock.com Finds (books, that is) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So, I wanted bargain books. I typed "costuming" into Overstock.com's search page. Lo and behold..I found four pages of stuff! A good deal of it is children's books- Gus and Grandpa's halloween, and such. However, I did find: The Costume Designer's Handbook at $19.39 The Costume Technician's Handbook at $28.69 Both of these are selling for (according to Overstock) less than at Amazon.com. Dunno if I need these, but they might be helpful to someone! Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 08:37:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98CbBIO016441 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:37:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98CZG76011033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:35:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98CZFBv000884; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:35:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13402.mail.yahoo.com (web13402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h98CZDBv000859 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:35:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031008123512.3425.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.170] by web13402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 05:35:12 PDT Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 05:35:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Repro jewelry -- Roman, Viking, Medieval X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just stumbled across this site: http://www.northerner.com/historical_jewelry.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 08:57:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98CvsIO016479 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:57:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98CtW76011998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:55:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98CtUN6009167; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:55:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98CtTN6009128 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:55:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m239.in-tch.com [216.166.191.239]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h98CYo400489 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:34:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F8409CB.77741703@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 06:57:47 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kid leather for binding corsets? References: <001201c38d20$4cd12270$6501a8c0@SG01> <265201c38d5b$43d32fc0$31baee0c@c59303a> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And Target. That's where I got mine (for the corset, and for a glove-making class). --sue chiara wrote: > > A source for chamois leather, and do not fall too hard off your chairs when > you read what I am about to type, is Wal-mart. > > In the car section there is are chamois leather "car dry clothes". They use > them to wipe off moisture from the car after it has been washed. > > It is what I use for some of my classes for teaching. > > Chiara > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sue Clemenger" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 12:00 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kid leather for binding corsets? > > : I didn't buy kid leather for my binding, I got chamois leather. Thin, > : flexible, washable. Didn't come in anything except "leather" color, > : though. ;-( > : --sue > : > : "Saragrace T. Knauf" wrote: > : > > : > Hi all, I know some of you have used kid leather to bind the edges of > your > : > corsets. Where do you get your leather from. (US suppliers.I guess > Canada > : > is fine as well) > : _______________________________________________ > : h-costume mailing list > : h-costume@mail.indra.com > : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 09:13:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98DDEIO016516 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:13:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98DC076012947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:12:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98DBxN6016469; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:11:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98DBuN6016447 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:11:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-42-161.jps.net ([209.165.42.161] helo=pavilion) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7E6Q-0004wU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 06:11:52 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01c38d9e$3438e940$a12aa5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031005.084644.472.1.Cley@juno.com> <01e001c38b65$b45da6a0$acf74a43@4gxif> Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:14:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Gerards Herbal free download on EEBO X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gerards Herbal can be found under the featured and free section at the link below, under gardening I think. It is a 700+ page book that sells for $100 at Dover and contains ooldes of drawings of plants, many of which could be very inspirational for embroidery motifs. Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 10:25 AM Subject: [h-cost] Was "umbrellas" now EEBO > Early English Books On-Line can be found here: > > http://wwwlib.umi.com/eebo/ > > However, without an authorized sign-in, you can only > sample it (BIG samples, however). Click on "Featured > Content-Free" and browse the lists on the page- you > can see many pages and images per item of each of the > "100 Best" lists and get some other free content. I > crawled through the help screens and found this e-mail > address: > > pqsales@il.proquest.com > > as a contact for further info about EEBO. This looks > like the best bet for finding out how to get an authorized > sign-in. I'll post again if I find some additional info. > > Enjoy what's there, > > -Aidan > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 09:51:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98DprIO016581 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:51:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98Dnu76015066 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:49:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98DnsN6005927; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:49:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98DnpN6005885 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:49:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-42-161.jps.net ([209.165.42.161] helo=pavilion) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7EhJ-0002k8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 06:49:50 -0700 Message-ID: <003901c38da3$70d1f720$a12aa5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001201c38cd7$46baa440$cf22a5d1@pavilion> <3F831A7E.9080703@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:51:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining and sharing primary costuming sources - was lawsuit over reselling of commercial patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran wrote: > > I don't see it being that big of a problem. One good thing about the > public domain is it's really, really big. Only a small fraction of it > has been reprinted/reissued. If you can't figure out a copyright issue > on your own and can't afford a lawyer, or if it turns out it's illegal > to reprint this particular work--just reprint something else. It's not > like you are obligated to--or even able to--reprint everything in a > certain area that is in the public domain. So you can cherry pick. > Just do the material that you know won't get you into trouble. If I simply wanted to publish SOMETHING, it wouldn't be a problem at all. But if one is working with in the field of 16th century costuming as I am, there are certain specific resources needed and one cannot substitute, nor can one buy the original copy of "The Needle's Excellency" to get out of entering into a licensing agreement for a work that is already IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN. It seems to me, that it takes a few years of working in the field of historical costuming just to find out where the really good sources of information are. Then it takes a huge expenditure of time and money to obtain them, an impossible task if one is not fairly devoted or if on a tiny budget. Then, if you have friends also working in the field sharing research information which is IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN is either a covert operation or an exercise in explaining the 10 hoops you have to jump through to find info which needs to be balanced by supporting people who make public domain material accessible because without them there wouldn't even be a chance to jump through the hoops with the hope of finding any pot of research gold at the end. Then there is this really stupid rule that only the person who is bound to the licensing agreement is the one who agrees to it. The law says if someone finds public domain material on the street, literally, this is what the law says, then they can republish it however they want. So, if I forgot to pack up my CD of "The Needles Excellency" legally obtained from the EEBO after a renn fair (if I ever get around to going to one) then the person who found it could legally copy, sell and redistribute it as they please even if I can't. This is not a good situation for anyone. Unfortunately, I don't have a better answer (yet :) for the situation but it gets to me sometimes. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 10:00:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98E0tIO016595 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:00:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98Duu76015515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:56:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98DuqTg010488; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:56:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98DuoTg010455 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:56:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-42-161.jps.net ([209.165.42.161] helo=pavilion) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7EnT-0003u2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 06:56:24 -0700 Message-ID: <004201c38da4$5d6a33e0$a12aa5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:58:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] outcome on Pattern reselling lawsuit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h98E0tIO016595 Status: RO Here's the word posted on my Professional Association of Custom Clothier's list - "Bob Herman, president of McCalls Pattern Co., just called me (it's Bob, not Mr. Herman). He explained the whole situation between McCall's and monster patterns. The judge ruled that Monster patterns were in fact stolen merchandise and it was trademark infringement." No doubt more news will be available soon. I would have thought that something found in the garbage would have been abandoned property unless something shady was going on with monterpatterns and whoever was supposed to dump the patterns. For my own interests, I like this ruling better than one saying posting an image of a patterncover for sale on e-bay is copyright infringement (which it probably is). Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 10:07:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98E7qIO016616 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:07:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98E5G76016184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:05:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98E5ETg016232; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:05:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98E5CTg016206 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:05:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.249.181.62] (pool181-62.patriot.net [209.249.181.62]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h98E59IM024906 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:05:11 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <003901c38da3$70d1f720$a12aa5d1@pavilion> References: <001201c38cd7$46baa440$cf22a5d1@pavilion> <3F831A7E.9080703@lavoltapress.com> <003901c38da3$70d1f720$a12aa5d1@pavilion> Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:05:43 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining and sharing primary costuming sources - was lawsuit over reselling of commercial patterns Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa wrote, >Then there is this really stupid rule that only the person who is >bound to the licensing agreement is the one who agrees to it. The >law says if someone finds public domain material on the street, >literally, this is what the law says, then they can republish it >however they want. So, if I forgot to pack up my CD of "The Needles >Excellency" legally obtained from the EEBO after a renn fair (if I >ever get around to going to one) then the person who found it could >legally copy, sell and redistribute it as they please even if I >can't. This is not a good situation for anyone. Unfortunately, I >don't have a better answer (yet :) for the situation but it gets to >me sometimes. Well, no, because the CD version is not public domain. It's a new publication. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 10:26:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98EQiIO016687 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:26:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98EM276017393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98EM0Tg026461; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hiram.io.com (root@hiram.io.com [199.170.88.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98ELvTg026421 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:21:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by hiram.io.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h98ELv905680 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:21:57 -0500 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h98ELxQs027906 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:21:59 -0500 Received: from 199.50.29.41 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:21:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <18459.199.50.29.41.1065622919.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:21:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Overstock.com Finds (books, that is) From: "Chiara" To: In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Both those books have been forever out of print. It is good to see them finally back into production. They are very good books. :) Chiara > So, I wanted bargain books. I typed "costuming" into Overstock.com's > search page. Lo and behold..I found four pages of stuff! A good deal > of it is children's books- Gus and Grandpa's halloween, and such. > However, I did find: > > The Costume Designer's Handbook at $19.39 > The Costume Technician's Handbook at $28.69 > > Both of these are selling for (according to Overstock) less than at > Amazon.com. Dunno if I need these, but they might be helpful to > someone! > > Christine > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 10:28:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98ESTIO016712 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:28:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98EPI76017692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:25:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98EPHTg028685; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:25:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [66.136.30.169]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98EPDTg028641 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:25:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from escom.antek [192.168.0.151] by web.antekhou.com (SMTPD32-8.00) id AE473410178; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:25:11 -0500 Received: From PACws22 ([65.45.18.250]) by escom.antek (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 1065623109600; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:25:09 -0500 Message-ID: <006801c38da7$a7e0faa0$0f64a8c0@algx> From: "Cyn Bucheger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004201c38da4$5d6a33e0$a12aa5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] outcome on Pattern reselling lawsuit Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:22:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h98ESTIO016712 Status: RO Here's the word posted on my Professional Association of Custom Clothier's list - No doubt more news will be available soon. I would have thought that something found in the garbage would have been abandoned property unless something shady was going on with monterpatterns and whoever was supposed to dump the patterns. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually, stolen property is stolen property. Possession of stolen property is illegal, regardless if you know that something is stolen or not. Otherwise, I think a lot of criminals would claim they "found" something with caught with something they acquired through theft. cyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 10:36:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98EaiIO016816 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:36:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98EYZ76018426 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:34:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98EYXTg005096; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:34:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14002.mail.yahoo.com (web14002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h98EYUTg005059 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:34:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031008143237.58416.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 15:32:37 BST Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:32:37 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F832317.59DD8456@charter.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Robertson was old tartan X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.tartans.scotland.net/tartan_info.cfm?tartan_id=1946 I kind of like the Robertson of Struan. --- Joe Robertson wrote: > Here's one to laugh about. Check out the Ogilvie > sett. Seriously, have a > peak at Robertson red ancient. It is still bright > without being > "analine" bright. It was suggested to me not because > it was a Robertson > sett, but because it was unrecognizable and fairly > simple. > Joe > --- > Joe Robertson, Psy.D. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 10:42:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98EgqIO017685 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:42:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98EbG76018601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:37:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98EbFTg007009; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:37:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98EbBTg006983 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:37:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-42-161.jps.net ([209.165.42.161] helo=pavilion) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7FQw-0005Rq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 07:37:00 -0700 Message-ID: <004d01c38daa$17d38240$a12aa5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001201c38cd7$46baa440$cf22a5d1@pavilion> <3F831A7E.9080703@lavoltapress.com> <003901c38da3$70d1f720$a12aa5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining and sharing primary costuming sources - was lawsuit over reselling of commercial patterns Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:39:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A facsimile of a work already the public domain does not create copyrights, downloads from the EEBO are facsimiles of the original works and they are not copyrightable. Gotta run to work or I'd site you the case. Nor does putting in into a different font. Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Kocian" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 7:05 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining and sharing primary costuming sources - was lawsuit over reselling of commercial patterns > Lisa wrote, > > >Then there is this really stupid rule that only the person who is > >bound to the licensing agreement is the one who agrees to it. The > >law says if someone finds public domain material on the street, > >literally, this is what the law says, then they can republish it > >however they want. So, if I forgot to pack up my CD of "The Needles > >Excellency" legally obtained from the EEBO after a renn fair (if I > >ever get around to going to one) then the person who found it could > >legally copy, sell and redistribute it as they please even if I > >can't. This is not a good situation for anyone. Unfortunately, I > >don't have a better answer (yet :) for the situation but it gets to > >me sometimes. > > Well, no, because the CD version is not public domain. It's a > new publication. > > -Carol > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 11:46:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98FktIO019355 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:46:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98Fel76024322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:40:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98Feg6B027978; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:40:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m3.nyc.untd.com (m3.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h98Fed6B027899 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:40:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"MW/ewWa+Q2FG65sHxVDc3a+sW91B4D41giKYzy3leu+hPY9nmpwhVg==">; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:39:58 PDT Received: (from btana@juno.com) by m3.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JBYUQVBC; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:39:58 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:44:15 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] outcome on Pattern reselling lawsuit Message-ID: <20031008.095049.1224.1.btana@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-10,13-22,34-37,39-41 From: btana@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:22:49 -0500 "Cyn Bucheger" writes: > Here's the word posted on my Professional Association of Custom > Clothier's list - > > No doubt more news will be available soon. I would have thought > that something found in the garbage would have been abandoned > property unless something shady was going on with monterpatterns and > whoever was supposed to dump the patterns. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > > Actually, stolen property is stolen property. Possession of stolen > property is illegal, regardless if you know that something is stolen > or not. Otherwise, I think a lot of criminals would claim they > "found" something with caught with something they acquired through > theft. > cyn I haven't read the original article yet (I did save it to read it when I have the chance), but I use to work in a fabric department, and when we would go through the patterns and take out the old ones, we'd have to mark them off, and actually have a manager meet the department supervisor at the compactor. They all had to sign off on the fact that they were "destroyed", although, if anyone knew where the refuse from that business was taken, you could have gone to the site and possibly gotten in to search, although they are frowning on that anymore these days. If the companies don't want things like this to happen, then they need to have the patterns removed from the envelopes and pay for the return of the envelopes. That would be a deterent. I don't know. I just know what we were doing with the patterns when the time came. Astrid Never argue with a dragon, for thou art crunchy and go well with Brie. http://www.geocities.com/tul_juriss - for links to ALL my current sites http://www.geocities.com/astridofthehorde - costumes I've made http://www.geocities.com/house_qul_mupwi - The noble Klingon House http://www.geocities.com/klingon_pirates_guild - The Klingon Pirate's Guild ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 11:52:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98FqFIO019475 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:52:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98Foe76025309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:50:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98Foc6B006369; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:50:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98FoZ6B006324 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:50:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.167.47] (helo=wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7GaA-00029b-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:50:34 -0400 Message-ID: <29289177.1065628234706.JavaMail.root@wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:50:34 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] outcome on Pattern reselling lawsuit Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cyn Bucheger wrote: >Actually, stolen property is stolen property. Possession of stolen property >is illegal, regardless if you know that something is stolen or not. Otherwise, >I think a lot of criminals would claim they "found" something when caught >with something they acquired through theft. And I believe that legally, things thrown into a container provided by the trash hauler (i.e. a dumpster) have become the property of the dumpster's owner -- so removing something from a dumpster is, indeed, theft. (Though I expect that re-selling such items is the major issue in this case, and more likely to attract active prosecution than, say, removing something and using it personally.) ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 12:01:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98G1YIO019578 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:01:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98Fxa76026166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:59:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98FxU84013695; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:59:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.thibault.org [66.92.75.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98FxP85013491 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:59:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by sergyar.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h98G6sQG007134 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:06:54 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by sergyar.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 12:06:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F843488.8030807@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 12:00:08 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost]"trash diving" ruling tangent to: outcome on Pattern reselling lawsuit References: <004201c38da4$5d6a33e0$a12aa5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <004201c38da4$5d6a33e0$a12aa5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's a recent ruling which has some background about other (USA) rulings: The New Hampshire Supreme Court ruled that garbage is private, even when it has been put out near the street for collection. The 4-1 decision runs counter to rulings by the U.S. Supreme Court and high courts in most other states. But the court said New Hampshire's constitution provides a stronger expectation of privacy than the U.S. Constitution. More at: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20030929/D7TSA95G1.html -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. -- Noam Chomsky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 12:17:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98GHUIO019658 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:17:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98GDu76027484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:13:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98GDb84026100; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:13:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98GDQ84025831 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:13:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp456786pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net[68.51.39.237](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003100816132001300qo9fje>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 16:13:20 +0000 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:10:26 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Allison To: margospatterns@yahoogroups.com, h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <1065604668.402.65571.m12@yahoogroups.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [h-cost] MDRF meetup X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, all! So far, there are 4-ish of us who will be at MDRF on 10/18-19. We're meeting at 1:30 PM Saturday, October 18, at the White Hart Inn. Don't know about a Big Red M or a Big Red H...maybe, if I have time. (yeah, right.) Yippie! Allison P. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 13:21:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98HLaIO023929 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:21:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98HKA76004058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:20:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98HK4Jo027837; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:20:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98HK0Jp027675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-223.sonic.net [209.148.112.223]) (authenticated bits=0)h98HJrXN001405 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:19:54 -0700 Message-ID: <3F8447D7.3030206@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 10:22:31 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining and sharing primary costuming sources - was lawsuit over reselling of commercial patterns References: <001201c38cd7$46baa440$cf22a5d1@pavilion> <3F831A7E.9080703@lavoltapress.com> <003901c38da3$70d1f720$a12aa5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <003901c38da3$70d1f720$a12aa5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >But if one is working with in the field of 16th century costuming as I am, >there are certain specific resources needed and one cannot substitute, nor >can one buy the original copy of "The Needle's Excellency" to get out of >entering into a licensing agreement for a work that is already IN THE PUBLIC >DOMAIN. > If you sign a licensing agreement it is voluntary, and it is not unreasonable to expect people to fulfill their signed agreements. It is perfectly legal to set up a licensing agreement, and this has nothing to do with whether what is being licensed is in the public domain or not. >Then it takes a huge expenditure of time and money to >obtain them, an impossible task if one is not fairly devoted or if on a tiny >budget. > There is no law that says you have a right to get everything you want easily and cheaply. It doesn't matter how much you need it. It's like, there's no law that says you automatically get a 3-bedroom home of your own even though you demonstrably need it. It's the same with books. >The law says if >someone finds public domain material on the street, literally, this is what >the law says, then they can republish it however they want. So, if I forgot >to pack up my CD of "The Needles Excellency" legally obtained from the EEBO >after a renn fair (if I ever get around to going to one) then the person who >found it could legally copy, sell and redistribute it as they please even if >I can't. > There is also the question of whether their CD copy is in the public domain. It strikes me that you are looking for loopholes. I've been doing costume research for about 30 years. I look for old original publications regularly, and I spend the money on them. I know that if I look diligently enough for particular items and keep my eye on the market, I can find things I've never heard of anywhere, and others I thought could not possibly be available on the open market. And of course, I too can sign up for, or use in a library, online ebooks. I can also buy any printed reprints or new editions. I don't invite people to visit my personal library, and I don't post to h-costume whenever I buy a book (who would care?). I'm just saying this so you won't make assumptions about what is in my library, and assert it's all easy-to-find material on the basis of those assumptions. But I'm a longterm collector, and I'm in the publishing business, and I'm just not seeing all these problems. So it's hard to track down books, and expensive to buy them? That's the breaks. So sometimes I can't use material exactly the way I want because someone else has proprietary rights to a physical copy, or copyrights to their own changes or database? That's the breaks. It's all part of doing original research. Nobody said it was easy. And if someone else has put books online or reprinted physical copies, you can hardly say that material is unavailable to the world. Why not just reprint something else, or write something of your own? Contribute something new to the world? Fran ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 14:44:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98IiQIO024235 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:44:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98IgL76011345 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:42:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98IgGlW010077; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:42:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98IgDlW010020 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:42:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-125-210.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.125.210])h98Ig8w7027854 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:42:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031008112428.00d8b6a0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:30:45 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kid leather for binding corsets? In-Reply-To: <3F8399D1.652B28F@in-tch.com> References: <001201c38d20$4cd12270$6501a8c0@SG01> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I didn't buy kid leather for my binding, I got chamois leather. Thin, >flexible, washable. Didn't come in anything except "leather" color, >though. ;-( > > Hi all, I know some of you have used kid leather to bind the edges of your > > corsets. Where do you get your leather from. (US suppliers.I guess Canada > > is fine as well) If chamois will do, go to a car parts store. They sell pieces of chamois-like actual leather for polishing cars like when you're waxing them. Look for real leather, not just something that says chamois on the label. It only comes in a sort of pinkish straw-colour. I made a pair of gloves out of this stuff once, and they were nice and soft, but thicker than real kid. For real kid, or the equivalent, I'd look for Tandy Leather online, and get their thinnest lining leather - skiver? I got a few hides of this, or maybe real kid, I'm not sure, when they closed all their physical stores. I haven't made gloves out of it yet. I will, since I have very wide hands for a woman, and can never find kid gloves to fit at thrift stores. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 14:44:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98IiuIO024239 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:44:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98IhM76011439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:43:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98IhLlW010983; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:43:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98IgFlW010058 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:42:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-125-210.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.125.210])h98Ig8w9027854 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:42:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031008113158.00e5fb50@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:32:49 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Circle skirts... In-Reply-To: <007001c38d64$dcbb1500$49cdadcb@michaela> References: <000801c38b52$ec47bf50$6501a8c0@SG01> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >What waffenrock patterns/extant garments are these? I've only ever seen the >one in Blanche Payne's book which is cut in one (or two, I never did figure >out if it was on the fold or what.) There's a photo of one of these in Davenport. IIRC, it clearly shows stitching to hold padded pleats together. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 14:47:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98IlAIO024250 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:47:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98Ihm76011492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:43:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98IhmlW011347; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:43:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98IgGlW010079 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:42:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-125-210.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.125.210])h98Ig8wB027854 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:42:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031008113437.04bd16f0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:39:45 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] outcome on Pattern reselling lawsuit In-Reply-To: <004201c38da4$5d6a33e0$a12aa5d1@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >No doubt more news will be available soon. I would have thought that >something found in the garbage would have been abandoned property unless >something shady was going on with monterpatterns and whoever was supposed >to dump the patterns. For my own interests, I like this ruling better >than one saying posting an image of a patterncover for sale on e-bay is >copyright infringement (which it probably is). As far as I know, your trash is considered your property till the official trash people take it away. (In my area all the trash cans actually belong to the city, and the city picks up the trash. Don't know about dumpsters.) I think Federal agents need search warrants to go sifting thru your trash if they think you're doing illegal things. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 15:02:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98J2bIO024299 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:02:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98Ivs76012747 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:57:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98IvpbA023962; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:57:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98IvlbA023888 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:57:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1A7JVJ-000DEe-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 19:57:45 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:54:10 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Old tartan References: <3F8209D4.6A096813@charter.net> <5.2.1.1.2.20031007084136.00b64880@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20031007084136.00b64880@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO M Stewart wrote > >Greetings Joe... or Ceid Mille Failche... > >I take it you are looking for 16th century tartan patterns... well...I >hate to tell you but tartan as we know it today is not a 16th century >critter. The registered tartan setts that denote a family by a >specific weave of colours is a Victorian thang... sorry. > >Now that's not to say that specific areas, or families didn't have >patterns that were specific to them, made from local dyes etc. >As I know samples of fabric were recovered from Culloden, which >occurred in 1746. None of them are woven in the setts prescribed by >today's tartan, and many of them are simply checks, or solid fabrics. > Allan Ramsay painted Flora MacDonald in 1749, wearing a red tartan sash. It's distinctly tartan, with broad and narrow stripes in both directions - it looks a lot like Royal Stuart, in fact. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 15:34:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98JYlIO024385 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:34:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98JIW76014473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:18:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98JILbA012180; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:18:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98JIIbA012143 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:18:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMG007U5DMHOQ@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 12:18:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:54:21 -0700 From: Kimiko Small X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031008114526.00b09de0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [h-cost] Clouet painting X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all I was wondering if anyone recognizes this painting from eBay? It is supposed to be from Jean Clouet. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3557555593&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1 It looks interesting to me, but the image isn't large enough for me to determine details. I was hoping someone might recognize it and know where I might find another, better image of the painting, preferably online? And they have it from Jean Clouet who died according to them in 1541. However, she is wearing a neck ruff. Is it possible she is actually from Francis Clouet? French paintings is not my strong suit. TIA Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 15:55:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98JtsIO024459 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:55:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98Jc276016095 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98JbxbA029630; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:37:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98JbubA029528 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:37:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A22F425D0 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:40:48 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3F8467A8.7070602@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 14:38:16 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clouet painting References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031008114526.00b09de0@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031008114526.00b09de0@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko Small wrote: > Hi all > > I was wondering if anyone recognizes this painting from eBay? It is > supposed to be from Jean Clouet. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3557555593&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1 > I found this blurb: *Clouet, Francois (Imitator of) French, before 1522-1572 Portrait of Elizabeth of Austria, Wife of King Charles IX c. 1570 Oil on panel 14 1/8 x 10 3/8 in. (36 x 26.3 cm) 1951.317 here: www.artic.edu/aic/provenance/ ProvPaint/Paint_C3.htm I think the site is saying it's in the collection of the Art Institute of Chicago. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 16:07:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98K7nIO024505 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 16:07:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98JeQ76016317 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:40:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98JePbA002020; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:40:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.thibault.org [66.92.75.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98JeLbB001899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:40:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by sergyar.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h98JloQG007941 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:47:50 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by sergyar.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 15:47:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F846850.1000404@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 15:41:04 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Subject: [h-cost] OT? Lace judge's jabots UK X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Folks, I don't know if this is a historical thing or not. The lady found me via my webpage; please drop me a note if you've got a suggestion. Thanks! -------- Original Message -------- Question -- do you have a pattern for making a lace jabot such as the British folk wear (or wore) with their robes and wigs? We have a friend & co-worker who just became a judge, and we are trying to furnish her with all the trappings (without spending a fortune!) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 16:18:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98KIuIO024564 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 16:18:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98K8776018703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:08:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98K83rV026245; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98K7xrV026205 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:07:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7KbG-0001wM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:07:58 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Kid leather for binding corsets? Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:08:34 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01c38dd7$f40e9fb0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <3F8409CB.77741703@in-tch.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Were you able to get the chamois in its natural color...most of the ones I have seen are dyed a sort of golden brown which bleeds...? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 16:31:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98KV2IO024602 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 16:31:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98KJ076019612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98KIwrV006061; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:18:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from solomon.io.com (solomon.io.com [199.170.88.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98KInrW005913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:18:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by solomon.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h98KId2Z003161 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:18:39 -0500 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h98KIsQs005497 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:18:54 -0500 Received: from 199.50.29.41 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:18:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <28585.199.50.29.41.1065644334.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:18:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: RE: [h-cost] Kid leather for binding corsets? From: "Chiara" To: In-Reply-To: <000a01c38dd7$f40e9fb0$6501a8c0@SG01> References: <3F8409CB.77741703@in-tch.com> <000a01c38dd7$f40e9fb0$6501a8c0@SG01> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is no single color, they all very in shades of light brown. I guess if you squint real hard it could be a gold yellow color. ;) Mine have never bled, why would they sell it for washing and buffing cars if it were dyed? That would defeat the purpose of cleaing the car to get dye on it from the wipe. Chiara > Were you able to get the chamois in its natural color...most of the ones > I have seen are dyed a sort of golden brown which bleeds...? > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 16:57:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98KvrIO024644 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 16:57:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98KfO76021821 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:41:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98KfLrV026038; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:41:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98KfHrV025963 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:41:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fe2.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.226]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8BDD047FED2 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:41:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000501c38ddd$091f9760$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031008114526.00b09de0@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clouet painting Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:44:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Kimiko. I belive this is a real Clouet painting.The hairstyle is right and i think i have seen her face before, but not with this black costume. I have seen other Clouet paintings, but this is the first i have seen with a black costume, so i could not lead you to where to find a better image. There are some costume books, wich has a lot of Clouet portraits, but alas i have forgot wich book. It was one i found at a library once. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 8:54 PM Subject: [h-cost] Clouet painting > Hi all > > I was wondering if anyone recognizes this painting from eBay? It is > supposed to be from Jean Clouet. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3557555593&ssPageName=ADM E:B:SS:US:1 > > It looks interesting to me, but the image isn't large enough for me to > determine details. I was hoping someone might recognize it and know where I > might find another, better image of the painting, preferably online? > > And they have it from Jean Clouet who died according to them in 1541. > However, she is wearing a neck ruff. Is it possible she is actually from > Francis Clouet? French paintings is not my strong suit. > > TIA > > Kimiko > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 17:04:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98L4jIO024658 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:04:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98KuX76023109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:56:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98KuUrC009195; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:56:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt27.cluster1.charter.net (remt27.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98KuPrC009048 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:56:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.169.191.177] (HELO charter.net) by remt27.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 174876826 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 16:56:16 -0400 Message-ID: <3F84799B.747DBA4D@charter.net> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 15:54:51 -0500 From: Joe Robertson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Robertson was old tartan References: <20031008143237.58416.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not sure that particular sett is available anymore, although it is pretty. At least it's not one of the recognized setts today. I have seen it before online in various databases. Today's Robertson of Struan is the personal tartan of our chief and his family, and it would be in bad taste to use it. It looks just like Robertson red (modern, ancient or muted), but with a white line through it. I'm unfamiliar with the origin of the sample you linked me to. I'm with you on this. I feel that the tartan you illustrated would make a fine brat, as long as the colours weren't flaming intense. The sample is old, so it may not be made anymore. Joe --- Joe Robertson, Psy.D. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 17:50:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98LonIO024743 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:50:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98LX876026747 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:33:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98LX6rC012614; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:33:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h98LX3rC012563 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:33:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-63-202-198-62.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net (HELO AngelaFLazear) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@63.202.198.62 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 21:33:03 -0000 Message-ID: <020101c38de3$c0179750$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> From: "Angela Lazear-CRC" To: "Historical Costume" References: <008801c38cff$987cca10$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> <3F83F7FC.2060407@dandy.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] italian renn job - off topic Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:33:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It wasn't actually the casino. The owner was allegedly having a private party for 400 of his closest friends in Florida in November. I was pretty much 85% this will never happen, but didn't think I should blow the agent off, just in case. But no big surprise that as soon as I got specific, she/they got "disappeary!" Client was in Venice, and yadda yadda. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael tartaglio" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] italian renn job - off topic > Hi, All. As a person that works in a casino-hotel in Atlantic City, and > works closely with the Marketing/Banquets/Special Events Depts., I would > guess that this person was running with a half-baked idea that they got > from their boss, which was in turn dreamt up in some executive meeting. > The execs usually have a meeting every week, and seek to be encouraged > to free-form ideas that aren't necessarily practical. I can't tell you > how many times a really impractical (and sometimes just plain hilarious) > idea has been sent down to us to see if we could do it. We usually > respond by saying "Of course we can do this, but it will cost you $$$", > which usually puts out their ardour rather nicely. They love pretty > things, but are usually loathe to pay for them. BTW, I hadn't heard that > this was a casino, or I'd have warned you. The one department (Special > Events, usually) takes, but the other (Purchasing) that gives (your > payment), is notoriously slow. You might, if lucky, get paid in 3 > months. Sometimes, they also get quotes from a number of people as a way > to force a business they already plan on dealing with to lower their > spec. on a job. Another problem is that sometimes an executive's spouse > is hired by the company as the head of Special Events/Banquets, > assumedly because they know how to throw a good party/know who to call > for catering, etc. Not only can they do no wrong, but they are usually > clueless, and have no people skills to speak of... Mike T. speaking > from years of experience PS All this said, Steve Wynn is still probably > one of the more trustworthy names to work for, he will respond directly > to problems/complaints, and *is* a real people person. > > angelalazear wrote: > > >Sorry to send this to the full list, but there were so many responses I > >wanted to get the information out right away, and was afraid I might not > >have kept a complete list of those who responded. Lisa Sinervo, if you'd > >post to your list as well, this way everyone will be sure to get the info. > > > >The lady from the Bellagio has not responded to my last three emails as of > >this morning. She was either shooting off her mouth with no info, or has > >apparently changed her mind, or has no concept of the magnitude of the > >project. I am going to say at this point that her offer was not fully > >informed and that there probably isn't a genuine interest on the part of > >Steve Wynn or his agents to get this project completed. > > > >So sorry to have wasted any of your time, but will defnitely keep your names > >for future projects as they arise, should they be genuine. > > > >angela > >+++++ > >Angela F. Lazear > >Cabbage Rose Costumes > >Theatrical Costume Design > >"Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: > >be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, > >and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: > >be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." > >W. Shakespeare > > > >http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 18:14:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98ME5IO024836 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:14:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98MBj76000350 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 16:11:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98MBhXm015809; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 16:11:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98MBXXm015617 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 16:11:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7MWq-0006sd-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 15:11:32 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT? Lace judge's jabots UK Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:12:08 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01c38de9$377affd0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <3F846850.1000404@thibault.org> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I guess it depends...I found this picture: http://www.scotchcorner.com/accessories-shirt-jabot.html I have a pattern for one that is spiral, sort of like a sectioned seashell if you will. It is cut like that and then straightened out to attach down the front of a shirt...if it is like the ones above, I am sorry I don't but..it wouldn't be too hard to figure out one. You can put her in touch with me if you like and I can draft a pattern for one... Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 18:20:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98MKsIO024851 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:20:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98MD776000513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 16:13:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98MD6Xm016892; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 16:13:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98MD5Xm016824 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 16:13:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-237-231.client.attbi.com[12.246.237.231]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20031008221300014009kmc0e>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:13:00 +0000 Message-ID: <3F848BF3.5040802@fenris.net> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 15:13:07 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Repro jewelry -- Roman, Viking, Medieval References: <20031008123512.3425.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031008123512.3425.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mara Riley wrote: >Just stumbled across this site: > >http://www.northerner.com/historical_jewelry.html > > > The history glass section of the site is also wonderful liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 19:12:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98NCvIO025003 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:12:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98NA676004851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:10:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98NA2vQ029281; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98N9uvR029177 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:09:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 18123 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 23:09:54 -0000 Received: from dap-208-166-66-97.erie-tnt-1.pa.erie.net (HELO castlebooks) ([208.166.66.97]) (envelope-sender )SMTP for ; 8 Oct 2003 23:09:54 -0000 Message-ID: <00b001c38df1$4b9f4630$6142a6d0@castlebooks> From: "Janet Davis" To: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:09:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Fw: [SCA-AE] Fw: Artssciences Digest, Vol 5, Issue 7 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This was just forwarded to the Aethelmearc list today and it seemed very relevent to the researching of obscure topics and the availability of free information over the internet. I tried a search on "16th century clothes" and while there some very silly entries came back, there were dozens of books that I'd never heard of that sounded useful. The main problem is that, while it will tell you if your local library has it (of course it doesn't) it doesn't tell you what library does have it. The "search online booksellers" is useless, as it only searches Amazon. Still, I have a whole new collection of titles that I'll be on the lookout for. Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http://www.medievalbookstore.com > Hi All. Wanted to forward this message from the ArtsSciences list on easy > research through RedLightGreen, a Union catalog for book searches listing > the most important/popular works in a given topic. > > Enjoy > > Aoife > > > > > Take a look at this one: > > > > Search Page for RedLightGreen > > > USERID=anonymous&PASSWORD=------&ACTION=logon&SRCHPATH=3> > > > > A shorter URL for RedLightGreen Search Interface > > > > > > "RedLightGreen helps you locate the most important books and other > > research materials in your area of interest, and find out whether what you > > need is available at your favorite library. Sign in, and you can format > > and send citations any way you want: MLA, APA, Chicago, Turabian. Just > > click - and it's done." > > > > ---------------- > > > > "The immediate goal for RLG's "RedLightGreen" project (formerly known as > > the Union Catalog on the Web) is to offer rich, reliable library > > information that is unique in the Web environment and to deliver that > > information in ways that meet the expectations of Web-savvy users." > > > > "RedLightGreen at a glance > > > > Goal: To help students find authoritative sources for research > > information, by leveraging data contained within the RLG Union Catalog > > > > Intended users: Undergraduate students > > > > Interface: Publicly accessible Web site > > > > Underlying data: 126 million bibliographic records representing 42 > > million titles > > > > -- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@fiedlerfamily.net > > "in verbis et in herbis, et in lapidibus sunt virtutes" > > (In words, and in plants, and in stones, there is power.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 20:27:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h990RTIO025216 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:27:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h990Od76009240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:24:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h990ObpO010825; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:24:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h990OYpQ010791 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:24:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMG00K8ERDXQO@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 17:15:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 17:16:58 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clouet painting In-reply-to: <000501c38ddd$091f9760$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031008171547.02e80008@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031008114526.00b09de0@64.87.54.245> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:44 PM 10/8/2003 +0200, you wrote: >Hi Kimiko. >I belive this is a real Clouet painting.The hairstyle is right and i think i >have seen her face before, but not with this black costume. I have seen >other Clouet paintings, but this is the first i have seen with a black >costume, so i could not lead you to where to find a better image. >There are some costume books, wich has a lot of Clouet portraits, but alas i >have forgot wich book. It was one i found at a library once. > >Bjarne Thank you Bjarne for your comments. If you ever remember which books have good Clouet paintings, I would appreciate if you would post them. I am on the lookout for one. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 20:29:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h990T9IO025219 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:29:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h990PZ76009302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:25:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h990PYpO011293; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:25:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h990OYpO010791 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:24:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMG00K8ERDXQO@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 17:15:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 17:15:34 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clouet painting In-reply-to: <3F8467A8.7070602@reddawn.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031008171414.00b0a958@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031008114526.00b09de0@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20031008114526.00b09de0@64.87.54.245> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:38 PM 10/8/2003 -0500, you wrote: >*Clouet, Francois >(Imitator of) >French, before 1522-1572 >Portrait of Elizabeth of Austria, Wife of King >Charles IX >c. 1570 >Oil on panel >14 1/8 x 10 3/8 in. >(36 x 26.3 cm) >1951.317 > > >here: www.artic.edu/aic/provenance/ ProvPaint/Paint_C3.htm > >I think the site is saying it's in the collection of the Art Institute of >Chicago. > > > >Dawn Thank you Dawn. I thought she looked familiar, but I hadn't realized it was another painting of Elizabeth of Austria. It seems the only images online are small, but it is a start to finding the larger image somewhere. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 20:44:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h990iJIO025251 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:44:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h990fc76010337 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:41:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h990fbpO020672; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:41:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h990fZpO020657 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:41:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-57-181.jps.net ([209.165.57.181] helo=pavilion) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7Os2-0003eZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 17:41:34 -0700 Message-ID: <000f01c38dfe$a086bc20$b539a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001201c38cd7$46baa440$cf22a5d1@pavilion><3F831A7E.9080703@lavoltapress.com> <003901c38da3$70d1f720$a12aa5d1@pavilion> <3F8447D7.3030206@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining and sharing primarycostuming sources - was lawsuit over reselling of commercial patterns Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:45:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >The law says if > >someone finds public domain material on the street, literally, this is what > >the law says, then they can republish it however they want. So, if I forgot > >to pack up my CD of "The Needles Excellency" legally obtained from the EEBO > >after a renn fair (if I ever get around to going to one) then the person who > >found it could legally copy, sell and redistribute it as they please even if > >I can't. > > > There is also the question of whether their CD copy is in the public > domain. It strikes me that you are looking for loopholes. > Actually I'm just observing the state of copyright law and the loopholes that I see as I know it. I think it is bad for all parties currently when it comes to the public domain. Say for instance, I sign an agreement to download information off the EEBO, and also visit museums who generously let me have access to all their material provided I don't republish it. And I adhere to these terms quite willingly. Over the years I download the entire EEBO, then, I get news that hurricane Isabel is on it's way so I gather my CD collection, put it into a locked trunk and put it onto the back of my pick up and try to get out of town before the floods hit. Unfortunately, in this scenario, my truck does a roll over, I die, and my trunk with my entire CD collection of images out of copyright and in the public domain float away down the road. Next morning, Miss Penelope Chalk steps out her front door and finds my trunk on her lawn. She reports it to the police, runs an ad in the newspaper but no one claims it after 45 days and it's now her's to do as she pleases. She's not party to any licensing agreement and the material is not under copyright. She doesn't need to ask the owners of the original material for access to the books because she already has copies. Property rights are of no value here because there is no need to access any one else's property. She could now set up her own book selling service, probably quite legally with little or no investment on her part much to the detriment of those who paid for the books, microfilmed them and set up the online service. That is not a good situation for people currently running businesses using public domain material at all. This is a fairly risky proposition to be in when ones livelihood depends on it in my opinion. I see it from both sides. Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 20:56:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h990ufIO025304 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:56:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h990tF76011253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:55:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h990tEnA027725; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:55:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h990tCnA027678 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:55:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp04599099pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net[68.55.87.127]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20031009005507016003re9ae> (Authid: cozit); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:55:07 +0000 Message-ID: <3F84B1EC.6010806@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 20:55:08 -0400 From: Cozit / Liz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200310081617.h98GGl85029274@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200310081617.h98GGl85029274@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: MDRF meetup X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually there are probably more who just missed what was going on... but not many. I'll be there both days. Saturday I *might* be able to make it to the White Hart about 1:30... Keep in mind that that pub gets a bit crowded for Pyrate Royale shows (one is from 1-1:30) so it'll be easier to find folks afterwards. Alternatively, plan a spot to meet (like by "Mannie the Stag"... though that's pretty busy some times... or at the first picnic table outside the White Hart on the 'food court side'). If I make it over there that day, I'll be wearing a green "Irish gown" (open down the front) with a brown underskirt, tea-dyed muslin chemise/leine. Assuming that I get tied up chatting with folks coming into town for the wedding I'm going to there in the morning (good chance, all things considered) on the far side of the faire... I'd love it if anyone could stop by and say hi/introduce themselves sometime during the afternoon on Sunday (goes for any Sunday this year) over at the "Living History Pavillion" ... also known as "The Guildyard". I'll be one of those in yellow with black trim, and I usually am around there between 11:30 and 5:15 or so... Usually either sewing or doing embroidery/needlepoint, going by Mistress Mabel Ascomb. If I'm not there, someone will know either where I am (can you say directing traffic at the privies? ... if it's crowded) or when I'll be back. BTW, for those who are interested, usually there are several outfits down there that are at least based on Margo's Elizabethian patterns... and several of us are generally quite happy to chat about fashion... and history in general. -Elisabeth (aka Liz, aka "Mistress Mabel" ... I'll even turn around to 'cozit' on occasion :-) Allison P. wrote: >Greetings, all! > >So far, there are 4-ish of us who will be at MDRF on 10/18-19. > >We're meeting at 1:30 PM Saturday, October 18, at the White Hart Inn. > >Don't know about a Big Red M or a Big Red H...maybe, if I have time. >(yeah, right.) > >Yippie! > >Allison P. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 21:11:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h991BMIO025368 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:11:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9914Z76011830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:04:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9914YnA002976; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:04:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9914WnA002923 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:04:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCqIo0UjztEd12ryItyLgeRvqVg9CHrVdHA==">; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 18:03:30 PDT Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JBZUYQND; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 18:03:30 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:59:08 -0500 Message-ID: <20031008.195909.-7445679.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,13-14,17-27,29-62 From: seamstrix@juno.com Subject: [h-cost] Elizabeth I Exhibit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Last Monday, I was present at the opening of the Newberry Library's new exhibit on the life of Elizabeth I. It is focused on the literary aspects (go figure!), but there are some significant visual works as well. There are two 16th century portraits of Elizabeth which are unfortunately both black on black with black accents, but there are some interesting details in the head wear and surroundings. The famous 'Funeral Scroll' is there from the British Library which shows sketches of the order and persons involved with Elizabeth's funeral. They have a letter from Lady Jane Grey acknowledging Mary Tudor as rightful Queen, a few proclamations by Bess, and some period part-singing books complete with recordings of what the music would have sounded like. My favorite piece is an embroidered night cap that has work so fine it almost made me cry. It is a level of quality to aim for but probably never reach! They are having a series of lectures in conjunction with the exhibit. If any of you are going to be in Chicago during the next few months, it might be worth a visit. Twelfth Night- A Production From Shakespeare's Globe November 26-December 14 An 'original practices' production of the play direct from London. Rose Rage: Henry VI Parts 1, 2, & 3 September 18- January 18 2004 On a single day, all three parts of the play with dinner. Both of these productions are at Chicago Shakespeare Theater on Navy Pier. Thursday October 23- 6pm Did Maps Really Matter to Elizabeth? Peter Barber of the British Library Thursday November 13- 6pm Elizabethan Privateering, Elizabethan Piracy Robert C. Ritchie of the Huntington Library Saturday November 22- 11am Queen Elizabeth and Her Court David Starkey of Cambridge University Monday December 8 6pm (Chicago Shakespeare Theater) Shakespeare Then: Exploring Original Practice at London's Globe Discussion: Moderator David Bevington of the University of Chicago Saturday December 13- 11am Maneuvering By Mail: Elizabeth's Correspondence with James VI of Scotland Janel Mueller of the University of Chicago Saturday January 17-11am Elizabeth I: New Knowledge, Old Mysteries Clark Hulse of the University of Illinois at Chicago For further information check out: http://www.newberry.org/nl/newberryhome.html No official affiliation, they just hired me to do Renaissance Dance! Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 21:53:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h991r0IO025436 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:53:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h991o376014252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:50:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h991nxnA025319; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:49:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h991ntnB025273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:49:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h991p7T0032325 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:51:07 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h991p7Fe032323 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:51:07 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] outcome on Pattern reselling lawsuit Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:51:06 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <4.3.1.2.20031008113437.04bd16f0@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031008113437.04bd16f0@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310082151.06674.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 08 October 2003 02:39 pm, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >No doubt more news will be available soon. I would have thought that > >something found in the garbage would have been abandoned property unless > >something shady was going on with monterpatterns and whoever was supposed > >to dump the patterns. For my own interests, I like this ruling better > >than one saying posting an image of a patterncover for sale on e-bay is > >copyright infringement (which it probably is). > > As far as I know, your trash is considered your property till the official > trash people take it away. (In my area all the trash cans actually belong > to the city, and the city picks up the trash. Don't know about > dumpsters.) I think Federal agents need search warrants to go sifting thru > your trash if they think you're doing illegal things. That's my recollection from my exposure to search-and-seizure cases in law school. -- Cathy Raymond "Adult life seems to be a cross between a zen koan and a cattle stampede." --Ozy and Millie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 22:19:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h992J0IO025536 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:19:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h992Hl76015755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:17:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h992HkmP008278; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:17:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h992HhmP008247 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:17:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-44-008.jps.net ([209.165.44.8] helo=pavilion) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7QN4-0005Gu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 19:17:42 -0700 Message-ID: <001401c38e0c$0f2c0240$082ca5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:21:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] using commercial patterns for multiple people X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h992J0IO025536 Status: RO This question has come up a couple of times on this list although it is not strictly historical. But for those of you using McCall's or their other branded patterns for more than one person and wondering if it was a breech of the licensing agreement, the word from Bob Herman, president of McCall's paraphrased is " If you don't ask technical questions, then you won't get a bad answer!". This was given to a group of custom clothiers using the patterns for custom commercial work. Just thought I'd pass that on. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 22:21:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h992LuIO025540 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:21:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h992KJ76015854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:20:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h992KImP009469; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:20:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h992KGmP009422 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:20:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A5CE2EBF00A4; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:19:58 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A44913C00D8; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:13:29 -0500 Message-ID: <028101c38e0c$39cd1840$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lawsuit over the reselling of commercial patterns Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:22:44 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Okay, think of it this way... another story... My nephew was in the Army in Iraq when they happened upon the ancient Egyptian artifacts in one of the Palaces.... lots and lots of gold. He was allowed to take personal photos of the artifacts. Now, the government of Egypt wants all their ancient artifacts back... well known fact in the art world. This has been going on for years with Egyptian artifacts. I can not use these beautiful photos on my website. Why? Because I do not have permission from the rightful owners of the artwork... Egypt. The Egyptian artifacts were packed up and sent back to Egypt. For those interested, the main piece of art I saw in the photos was a gold inlay coffin like King Tut's second innermost coffin. It was beautiful and just glowed! The craftsmanship in it was stunning. I would have loved to have seen it in person... but preferably in a museum. Another thing to think about... there are many areas of Virginia where important battles occurred....even in the rivers. If you happen upon on of these areas and find an artifact, you are supposed to turn the artifact over to the state of Virginia. Now, if you hand it over to the state, and they decide that they don't want it, that is a whole different ballpark. Now, in the case Lisa mentioned... the lady who would find the CD... the rightful owner would still be the library. Just because you find something, and it is of true historical nature, it doesn't mean that you have the right to keep it. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 22:23:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h992NgIO025543 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:23:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h992MV76015966 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:22:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h992MUmP010438; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:22:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h992MRmP010412 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:22:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7QRf-0007J7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 19:22:27 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:22:26 -0700 Message-ID: <002101c38e0c$2ee66a30$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Not exactly what you were looking for, but another Clouet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h992NgIO025543 Status: RO I could have sworn I have seen the portrait in question and that I had seen it either as a portrait of a Medici or Mary Queen of Scots. But I have been unable to find it as such, but I think you will find it VERY similar to the first portrait here of ELISABETH D'AUTRICHE (I assume that is Austria as someone else has suggested).but in the process of looking I came across this site which has several portraits I have never seen. If you click here and then be sure to click the box at the bottom which says "avec image" (oh and you also must hit" rechereche ") you will get the series of Clouet paintings. The fourth one down I have never seen and it is quiet unique. Very cool! http://www.culture.gouv.fr/public/mistral/joconde_fr?ACTION=AJOUT &FIELD_1=AUTR&VALUE_1=CLOUET%2520Fran%e7ois&REC_DOM=All&CHK_0=AUTR&INDEX_0=% 27CLOUET%20FRANCOIS%27&LOCAT=&USRNAME=nobody&USRPWD=4%24%2534P _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 23:09:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9939eIO025676 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:09:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9937w76018143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:07:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9937tGE000801; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:07:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.thibault.org [66.92.75.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9937nGF000729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:07:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by sergyar.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h993FKQG009673 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:15:20 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by sergyar.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 23:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F84D130.90503@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 23:08:32 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lawsuit over the reselling of commercial patterns References: <028101c38e0c$39cd1840$0400a8c0@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <028101c38e0c$39cd1840$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny Ladnier wrote: > I can not > use these beautiful photos on my website. Why? Because I do not have > permission from the rightful owners of the artwork... Egypt. Could you explain this more? If you take a picture in (say) May and it's ok, and then the item you took a picture of is sold to someone else in June, then even in June it seems to me that your picture should still be yours to control, even if differently owned. I would have imagined that the permission to photograph was on the order of a contract between the May owner and the photographer, and couldn't be changed with the June owner and the photographer by the sole action of the June owner, but only by joint agreement. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. -- Noam Chomsky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 23:30:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h993UdIO025788 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:30:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h993St76019160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:28:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h993SsGE009973; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:28:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h993SpGE009929 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:28:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-33qtkef.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.209.207] helo=pavilion) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7RTu-0000IJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 20:28:50 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01c38e15$f893d080$cfd1aec7@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <028101c38e0c$39cd1840$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lawsuit over the reselling of commercial patterns Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:31:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lawsuit over the reselling of commercial patterns > Okay, think of it this way... another story... > > My nephew was in the Army in Iraq when they happened upon the ancient > Egyptian artifacts in one of the Palaces.... lots and lots of gold. He was > allowed to take personal photos of the artifacts. Now, the government of > Egypt wants all their ancient artifacts back... well known fact in the art > world. This has been going on for years with Egyptian artifacts. I can not > use these beautiful photos on my website. Why? Because I do not have > permission from the rightful owners of the artwork... Egypt. The Egyptian > artifacts were packed up and sent back to Egypt. > > For those interested, the main piece of art I saw in the photos was a gold > inlay coffin like King Tut's second innermost coffin. It was beautiful and > just glowed! The craftsmanship in it was stunning. I would have loved to > have seen it in person... but preferably in a museum. > > Another thing to think about... there are many areas of Virginia where > important battles occurred....even in the rivers. If you happen upon on of > these areas and find an artifact, you are supposed to turn the artifact over > to the state of Virginia. Now, if you hand it over to the state, and they > decide that they don't want it, that is a whole different ballpark. > > Now, in the case Lisa mentioned... the lady who would find the CD... the > rightful owner would still be the library. Just because you find something, > and it is of true historical nature, it doesn't mean that you have the right > to keep it. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 23:36:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h993ZxIO025796 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:35:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h993Wg76019341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:32:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h993WgGE011677; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:32:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h993WZGE011567 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:32:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A6BF3A4B0088; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:32:15 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A53A21700D8; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:25:46 -0500 Message-ID: <02c101c38e16$4eb64a60$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <028101c38e0c$39cd1840$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <3F84D130.90503@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lawsuit over the reselling of commercial patterns Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:34:54 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Answered off list. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lawsuit over the reselling of commercial patterns > Could you explain this more? If you take a picture in (say) May and > it's ok, and then the item you took a picture of is sold to someone else > in June, then even in June it seems to me that your picture should still > be yours to control, even if differently owned. [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 23:47:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h993lXIO025821 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:47:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h993j076020039 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:45:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h993ixGE017568; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:44:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h993iuGE017551 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:44:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-33qtkef.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.209.207] helo=pavilion) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7RjJ-0006xd-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 20:44:45 -0700 Message-ID: <001a01c38e18$300fb180$cfd1aec7@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <028101c38e0c$39cd1840$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lawsuit over the reselling of commercial patterns Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:47:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny wrote: > > Now, in the case Lisa mentioned... the lady who would find the CD... the > rightful owner would still be the library. Just because you find something, > and it is of true historical nature, it doesn't mean that you have the right > to keep it. > Well Penny, all I can say is may the confidence you have in this view give you peace, and I pray you never end up being a test case either!! Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 23:49:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h993nHIO025825 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:49:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h993ZA76019524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:35:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h993Z9GE013137; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:35:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h993YsGE012900 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:34:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-33qtkef.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.209.207] helo=pavilion) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7RZc-00010U-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 20:34:44 -0700 Message-ID: <001901c38e16$c971a9c0$cfd1aec7@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <028101c38e0c$39cd1840$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lawsuit over the reselling of commercial patterns Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:37:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lawsuit over the reselling of commercial patterns > Okay, think of it this way... another story... > > My nephew was in the Army in Iraq when they happened upon the ancient > Egyptian artifacts in one of the Palaces.... lots and lots of gold. He was > allowed to take personal photos of the artifacts. Now, the government of > Egypt wants all their ancient artifacts back... well known fact in the art > world. This has been going on for years with Egyptian artifacts. I can not > use these beautiful photos on my website. Why? Because I do not have > permission from the rightful owners of the artwork... Egypt. The Egyptian > artifacts were packed up and sent back to Egypt. > > For those interested, the main piece of art I saw in the photos was a gold > inlay coffin like King Tut's second innermost coffin. It was beautiful and > just glowed! The craftsmanship in it was stunning. I would have loved to > have seen it in person... but preferably in a museum. > > Another thing to think about... there are many areas of Virginia where > important battles occurred....even in the rivers. If you happen upon on of > these areas and find an artifact, you are supposed to turn the artifact over > to the state of Virginia. Now, if you hand it over to the state, and they > decide that they don't want it, that is a whole different ballpark. > > Now, in the case Lisa mentioned... the lady who would find the CD... the > rightful owner would still be the library. Just because you find something, > and it is of true historical nature, it doesn't mean that you have the right > to keep it. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 8 23:59:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h993x0IO025844 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:59:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h993uc76020683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:56:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h993ubpJ022670; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:56:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from obsidian.spiritone.com (obsidian.spiritone.com [216.99.193.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h993uUpK022615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:56:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0)h993wKYh001112 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:58:20 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fw: [SCA-AE] Fw: Artssciences Digest, Vol 5, Issue 7 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:59:35 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <00b001c38df1$4b9f4630$6142a6d0@castlebooks> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If your library allows you to access WorldCat you can do a search on that, and there is a page that shows what libraries hold copies of the book. The one here at Multnomah county library usually lists the ones closest to Portland, Oregon first. It's very satisfying to see the number of things I want that live down at the Portland State University library. Rather than pay their $180 non student fee, I just ILL things. Wanda > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Janet Davis > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 4:10 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Fw: [SCA-AE] Fw: Artssciences Digest, Vol 5, Issue 7 > > > This was just forwarded to the Aethelmearc list today and it seemed very > relevent to the researching of obscure topics and the availability of free > information over the internet. I tried a search on "16th century clothes" > and while there some very silly entries came back, there were dozens of > books that I'd never heard of that sounded useful. The main problem is > that, while it will tell you if your local library has it (of course it > doesn't) it doesn't tell you what library does have it. The > "search online > booksellers" is useless, as it only searches Amazon. Still, I > have a whole > new collection of titles that I'll be on the lookout for. > > Janet > > Janet Davis > Castle Furnishings > http://www.medievalbookstore.com > > > > Hi All. Wanted to forward this message from the ArtsSciences > list on easy > > research through RedLightGreen, a Union catalog for book > searches listing > > the most important/popular works in a given topic. > > > > Enjoy > > > > Aoife > > > > > > > > Take a look at this one: > > > > > > Search Page for RedLightGreen > > > > > > USERID=anonymous&PASSWORD=------&ACTION=logon&SRCHPATH=3> > > > > > > A shorter URL for RedLightGreen Search Interface > > > > > > > > > "RedLightGreen helps you locate the most important books and other > > > research materials in your area of interest, and find out whether what > you > > > need is available at your favorite library. Sign in, and you > can format > > > and send citations any way you want: MLA, APA, Chicago, Turabian. Just > > > click - and it's done." > > > > > > ---------------- > > > > > > "The immediate goal for RLG's "RedLightGreen" project > (formerly known as > > > the Union Catalog on the Web) is to offer rich, reliable library > > > information that is unique in the Web environment and to deliver that > > > information in ways that meet the expectations of Web-savvy users." > > > > > > "RedLightGreen at a glance > > > > > > Goal: To help students find authoritative sources for research > > > information, by leveraging data contained within the RLG Union Catalog > > > > > > Intended users: Undergraduate students > > > > > > Interface: Publicly accessible Web site > > > > > > Underlying data: 126 million bibliographic records representing 42 > > > million titles > > > > > > -- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@fiedlerfamily.net > > > "in verbis et in herbis, et in lapidibus sunt virtutes" > > > (In words, and in plants, and in stones, there is power.) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 02:05:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9965IIO027444 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 02:05:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9962Z76026258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:02:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9962WGd017432; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:02:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9962UGd017423 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:02:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool0089.cvx18-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.238.89] helo=earthlink.net) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7Tsb-0003aM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 23:02:30 -0700 Message-ID: <3F84F9F4.7070908@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 23:02:28 -0700 From: pyrfectpup User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1st and last books References: <1cb.1156aeca.2ca20596@aol.com> <3F75580C.28862.F334FA8@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3F75580C.28862.F334FA8@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: >>Regina >>P.S. Did you know that a town in France, Perpignan where they wove >>stretchy fabric in the 14th Century for making hose? Got to write her >>and ask questions!) >> >> I'm a bit late here, but -- stretch in fabrics can often be accomplished by the spinning of the yarn. That is, yarn that is intentionally overtwisted will create a fabric (woven, knit, etc) that is elastic. Cecilia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 02:56:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h996u4IO008484 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 02:56:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h996sw76028830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:54:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h996suGd012312; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:54:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h996stGd012293 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:54:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMH004RM9LAJ5@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 23:48:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 23:44:15 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Not exactly what you were looking for, but another Clouet In-reply-to: <002101c38e0c$2ee66a30$6501a8c0@SG01> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031008234322.00b08a60@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:22 PM 10/8/2003 -0700, you wrote: >but in the process of looking I came across this >site which has several portraits I have never seen. Oh, thank you very much. My French is rusty (since '84 when I had French last), but the images are wonderful. Very cool indeed. Thanks! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 02:57:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h996v7IO008788 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 02:57:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h996tR76028900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:55:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h996tQ24012632; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:55:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h996stGf012293 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:54:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMH004RM9LAJ5@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 23:48:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 23:50:08 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth I Exhibit In-reply-to: <20031008.195909.-7445679.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031008234814.02e87738@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:59 PM 10/8/2003 -0500, you wrote: >They are having a series of lectures in conjunction with the exhibit. If >any of you are going to be in Chicago during the next few months, it >might be worth a visit. This sounds so wonderful. I so wish I could go to Chicago. Anyone want to send me a free plane ticket and a place to stay? ;-) Seriously, will there be any exhibit book, or Internet site of the exhibit that would provide images we can at least drool over? Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 06:08:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99A8LIO032722 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 06:08:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99A7K76005815 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 04:07:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99A7DEQ024389; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 04:07:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web60004.mail.yahoo.com (web60004.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.116.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h99A7BEQ024351 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 04:07:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031009100706.56117.qmail@web60004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [132.185.144.14] by web60004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 03:07:06 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 03:07:06 -0700 (PDT) From: elizabeth hervey To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200310082310.h98NAsvS029816@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Victorian dress on "Antiques Roadshow" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I saw it too. She said the silk's British, its all handsewn and it was worn by a *very grand lady*. A *museum quality dress* in her view. She valued it as in mint condition for £800 -£1000. BTW that's insurance not what you get for selling it. Selling prices are lots less than insurance. Bunny Campion's not a qualified costume expert. The skirt didn't look rightly sewn to the waistband and the waistband's brilliant white so it can't be period to the dress (late 1850's). I guess the waist was totally resewn in the last 50 years. The silk's expensive but could be French. The trimming prolly was handsewn but long seams might be machine sewn. This is very period and I do it with my costumes now I don't get time between hospital and stupid bank. Also the skirt's not wide enough to be a very grand lady's dress of the period. A grand lady wouldn't buy expensive silk but not buy enough for the skirt. IMHO more likely Sunday best for a bourgois woman. The alterations mean this wasn't mint condition. There's no *mint condition for its age* as internet costume sellers say. Either its mint or not mint. There's no way this is museum quality except as a silk textile not as costume. The valueation's way too high. £500-600 at the most for insurance. The only places I've seen resewn bourgois dresses sold as grand ladies dress for more is on the internet. There was a beaded flapper dress on the programme some weeks back they overpriced. That wasn't a qualified costume expert either. I think the programme should get a costume expert to value costumes not a toy and misellania expert. Sorry to go ranty that's just my 2 cents. Kind Regards, Elizabeth/Bess Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian dress on "Antiques Roadshow" To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> cvirtue+dated+1081123770.b9fa76@thibault.org 10/07/03 10:37pm >>> Kate M Bunting wrote: >> Any Victoriana fans in the UK see "Antiques Roadshow" last night? >> Someone produced an 1860s bodice and skirt which a friend had >>passed on to them when she moved to a smaller house. It was in salmon >>pink and silver - a bit insipid for my taste, but the condition of the >>garments was amazingly good. >How much did they price it at? I've got a few things in very good >condition that were in the family.... I can't remember for certain (cynics say that viewers are only interested in the prices, but I watch it for the human interest!) I think it was getting on for 1000 pounds, though. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 06:10:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99AACIO032726 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 06:10:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99A9876005891 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 04:09:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99A97EQ025237; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 04:09:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web60001.mail.yahoo.com (web60001.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.116.224]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h99A8SEQ024920 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 04:08:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031009100823.47341.qmail@web60001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [132.185.144.12] by web60001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 03:08:23 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 03:08:23 -0700 (PDT) From: elizabeth hervey To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200310082310.h98NAsvS029816@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Victorian dress on "Antiques Roadshow" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I saw it too. She said the silk's British, its all handsewn and it was worn by a *very grand lady*. A *museum quality dress* in her view. She valued it as in mint condition for £800 -£1000. BTW that's insurance not what you get for selling it. Selling prices are lots less than insurance. Bunny Campion's not a qualified costume expert. The skirt didn't look rightly sewn to the waistband and the waistband's brilliant white so it can't be period to the dress (late 1850's). I guess the waist was totally resewn in the last 50 years. The silk's expensive but could be French. The trimming prolly was handsewn but long seams might be machine sewn. This is very period and I do it with my costumes now I don't get time between hospital and stupid bank. Also the skirt's not wide enough to be a very grand lady's dress of the period. A grand lady wouldn't buy expensive silk but not buy enough for the skirt. IMHO more likely Sunday best for a bourgois woman. The alterations mean this wasn't mint condition. There's no *mint condition for its age* as internet costume sellers say. Either its mint or not mint. There's no way this is museum quality except as a silk textile not as costume. The valueation's way too high. £500-600 at the most for insurance. The only places I've seen resewn bourgois dresses sold as grand ladies dress for more is on the internet. There was a beaded flapper dress on the programme some weeks back they overpriced. That wasn't a qualified costume expert either. I think the programme should get a costume expert to value costumes not a toy and misellania expert. Sorry to go ranty that's just my 2 cents. Kind Regards, Elizabeth/Bess Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian dress on "Antiques Roadshow" To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> cvirtue+dated+1081123770.b9fa76@thibault.org 10/07/03 10:37pm >>> Kate M Bunting wrote: >> Any Victoriana fans in the UK see "Antiques Roadshow" last night? >> Someone produced an 1860s bodice and skirt which a friend had >>passed on to them when she moved to a smaller house. It was in salmon >>pink and silver - a bit insipid for my taste, but the condition of the >>garments was amazingly good. >How much did they price it at? I've got a few things in very good >condition that were in the family.... I can't remember for certain (cynics say that viewers are only interested in the prices, but I watch it for the human interest!) I think it was getting on for 1000 pounds, though. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 09:42:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99DgdIO001331 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:42:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99DfN76016075 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:41:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99DfJsQ027843; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:41:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h99DfGsQ027815 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:41:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 12781 invoked by uid 1005); 9 Oct 2003 13:41:10 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 2.781432 secs); 09 Oct 2003 13:41:10 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 2.781432 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 13:41:06 -0000 Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:41:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth I Exhibit In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031008234814.02e87738@64.87.54.245> Message-ID: <20031009094040.V31800-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Isn't this the exhibit that will be touring 40 libraries in the US, once it leaves the Newberry? Or is that a different Elizabeth I Library exhibit? Drea On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Kimiko Small wrote: > At 07:59 PM 10/8/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >They are having a series of lectures in conjunction with the exhibit. If > >any of you are going to be in Chicago during the next few months, it > >might be worth a visit. > > > This sounds so wonderful. I so wish I could go to Chicago. Anyone want to > send me a free plane ticket and a place to stay? ;-) > > Seriously, will there be any exhibit book, or Internet site of the exhibit > that would provide images we can at least drool over? > > Kimiko > > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 09:43:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99DhWIO001337 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:43:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99Dgr76016143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:42:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99DgqsQ028677; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:42:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14006.mail.yahoo.com (web14006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h99DgosQ028653 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:42:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031009134250.70613.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:42:50 BST Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:42:50 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F84799B.747DBA4D@charter.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Modern rules was Robertson tartan X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's interesting how modern restrictions have grown up around Tartans. Irvine, one of the oldest clans in existence (Duncan Eryvine)probably didn't have a Tartan until late nineteenth century. At least that's the earliest documented, but the Chief, Baron David wears Forbes. > Today's Robertson of Struan is the personal > tartan of our chief and > his family, and it would be in bad taste to use it. > It looks just like > Robertson red (modern, ancient or muted), but with a > white line through > it. I'm unfamiliar with the origin of the sample you > linked me to. > I'm with you on this. I feel that the tartan you > illustrated would > make a fine brat, as long as the colours weren't > flaming intense. The > sample is old, so it may not be made anymore. > Joe > --- > Joe Robertson, Psy.D. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 09:55:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99DtjIO001390 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:55:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99Ds676016809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:54:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99Ds0sQ004633; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:54:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14008.mail.yahoo.com (web14008.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h99DrwsQ004604 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:53:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031009135357.21191.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:53:57 BST Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:53:57 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F8467A8.7070602@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Clouet Painting on ebay. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "This beautiful on-canvas reproduction sells in a national catalog for $509. and was made in the studios of The Masters' Collection, the leader in producing replicas of the world's great art. This reproduction captures the texture, depth of color and event the subtle brush strokes, making it virtually indistinguishable from the original. The Masters' Collection replicas will last for generations and allow you to display the world's great art in your home or office for years to come." ACTUALLY I its saying that this is an oil painting that is a copy. The original is apparently in the collection of the Art Institute of Chicago's Museum. It appears they have not been able to prove this a Clouet or their workshop so they list it as an imitator. --- Dawn wrote: > Kimiko Small wrote: > > > Hi all > > > > I was wondering if anyone recognizes this painting > from eBay? It is > > supposed to be from Jean Clouet. > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3557555593&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1 > > > > > I found this blurb: > > *Clouet, Francois > (Imitator of) > French, before 1522-1572 > Portrait of Elizabeth of Austria, Wife of King > Charles IX > c. 1570 > Oil on panel > 14 1/8 x 10 3/8 in. > (36 x 26.3 cm) > 1951.317 > > > here: www.artic.edu/aic/provenance/ > ProvPaint/Paint_C3.htm > ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 09:57:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99DveIO001394 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:57:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99Dv276017005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:57:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99Dv2q1006491; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14004.mail.yahoo.com (web14004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h99Duwq1006427 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:56:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031009135656.31891.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:56:56 BST Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:56:56 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clouet painting To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031008114526.00b09de0@64.87.54.245> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Non art majors are sometimes confused by the Clouets. They were all known 'affectionately' at Court by Janet. Sometimes Francois was refereed to as Francois Janet in documents. This is probably what's causing the ebay seller problem with dates. --- Kimiko Small wrote: > Hi all > > I was wondering if anyone recognizes this painting > from eBay? It is > supposed to be from Jean Clouet. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3557555593&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1 > > It looks interesting to me, but the image isn't > large enough for me to > determine details. I was hoping someone might > recognize it and know where I > might find another, better image of the painting, > preferably online? > > And they have it from Jean Clouet who died according > to them in 1541. > However, she is wearing a neck ruff. Is it possible > she is actually from > Francis Clouet? French paintings is not my strong > suit. > > TIA > > Kimiko ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 09:59:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99DxNIO001397 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:59:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99DwN76017102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:58:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99DwMq1007268; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:58:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop2b.ripco.com (pop2b.ripco.com [209.100.227.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99DwIq1007226 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:58:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ripco.com (cybil2.ripco.com [209.100.224.203]) by pop2b.ripco.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h99DwH74024314 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 08:58:18 -0500 (CDT) From: zski@ripco.com To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 08:58:15 -0500 Subject: Subject: [h-cost] Elizabeth I Exhibit X-Mailer: CWMail Web to Mail Gateway 2.8c, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <3f856979.821b.0@ripco.com> X-User-Info: 199.250.136.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have all the lectures in my calendar and plan to get to as many of the (free) events as possible. Wanna go to the Starkey lecture and heckle? Wendy Z (my faire season is FINALLY over, and I'll be sleeping all weekend) Chicago, IL _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 13:50:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99HoFIO002247 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:50:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99Hmn76008426 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:48:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99Hmi3Y023878; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:48:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.19.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99Hmf3Z023767 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:48:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-213.sonic.net [209.148.112.213]) (authenticated bits=0)h99HmXSe019635 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:48:34 -0700 Message-ID: <3F85A010.2080209@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:51:12 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining and sharing primarycostuming sources - was lawsuit over reselling of commercial patterns References: <001201c38cd7$46baa440$cf22a5d1@pavilion><3F831A7E.9080703@lavoltapress.com> <003901c38da3$70d1f720$a12aa5d1@pavilion> <3F8447D7.3030206@lavoltapress.com> <000f01c38dfe$a086bc20$b539a5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <000f01c38dfe$a086bc20$b539a5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >it comes to the public domain. > >Say for instance, I sign an agreement to download information off the EEBO, >and also visit museums who generously let me have access to all their >material provided I don't republish it. And I adhere to these terms quite >willingly. Over the years I download the entire EEBO, then, I get news that >hurricane Isabel is on it's way so I gather my CD collection, > Your scenario is very elaborate and totally imaginary. It is not a sitatuation you are involved in. I have doubts about its legality. Should you find yourself in a situation anywhere near this elaborate, call a lawyer. Should you have any doubts at all about the legality of anything you are doing, call a lawyer. As I've said, a quick conversation with a lawyer is a lot cheaper and less time consuming than getting sued. Note that a lawsuit is by no means a "test case." Probably other people have already sued and been sued over similar issues. There is no guarantee that the outcome of your suit will be the same as any of theirs. And, my inclination on finding someone else's property is to do my best to find the rightful owner and restore it to him or her. > >This is a fairly risky proposition to be in when ones livelihood depends on >it in my opinion. I see it from both sides. > I see it from both sides too, since I am a longtime book collector and buyer as well as a professional publisher. I think you're describing problems that don't really exist. So it's hard to find original works? Search harder. So it's hard to understand copyright law? Read up on it some more. Consult a lawyer. Consult the person who owns or may own the copyright or other rights. In other words, do your research. But posting on a mailing list is not going to do anything to further your ends. No one on h-costume can give you valid permission to do something that is illegal, or that violates any agreements you made with other parties. Even if everyone on the list applauds your actions, if the person whose rights you are violating wants to sue you they can do it. Posting on h-costume will change nothing whatever in regard to overall copyright laws, licensing agreements, or property laws. If you believe certain laws are unfair and want to change them, ifyou believe certan parts of the legal structure should be overhauled, you need to contact your political representatives. It is silly to publish (on a website or otherwise) something that you think may be violating copyright or other laws but are not sure. And then, for months or years, wonder if the party whose rights you may or may not be violating will or will not find out. And if they do whether they will bother to sue you, or what they will do. Vew, very few professionals will voluntarily sit on a time bomb like that. (Yes, publishers and authors sometimes make big mistakes, and a very few are downright dishonest. But neither carelessness nor dishonesty is the norm. Just as business considerations, carelessness and dishonesty are insecure and potentially very expensive.) If you're publishing, and that's what putting up a website is, you should get all rights issues cleared _before_ publication. You consult copyright owners (starting with whoever you think may be the owners, or people they have done business with such as former publishers), you do copyright searches, you consult a lawyer as necessary, you ask for help with searches as necessary. And when you are either positive no clearances are needed, or you have them recorded in writing, then you publish. (You need permissions in writing because later on, the copyright may be acquired by someone other than the person you got permission from.) After all, you don't _have_ to publish anything. Even if you're a professional publisher, even if you make a living from publishing, there's always a different project. One that is equally worthwhile, interesting, profitable, and beneficial to society. If you're not constrained by any need to make money, your possibilities for perfectly legal, ethical publication are enormous. There is no need to do anything shady. Fran ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 14:20:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99IKgIO002365 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:20:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99IJH76011449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:19:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99IJFdo021665; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:19:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99IJAdp021521 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:19:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-213.sonic.net [209.148.112.213]) (authenticated bits=0)h99IIgXN022242 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:18:43 -0700 Message-ID: <3F85A722.5070908@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 11:21:22 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] using commercial patterns for multiple people References: <001401c38e0c$0f2c0240$082ca5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <001401c38e0c$0f2c0240$082ca5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is an argument for not asking permissions from copyright owners or licensers? If McCall's is lax, or gives tacit permission to do certain things, that applies to no copyright owner or licenser but McCall's. (I have some doubts as to what Herman meant, because the big pattern companies do have fairly detailed official guidelines which I have seen their employees post on sewing newsgroups.) No one can give permission to use someone else's property. No copyright owner's or licenser's policies as to who they sue, apply to any other copyright owner or licenser. One party may not care if you steal their property, another may instantly call their lawyer. Fran Lisa Sinervo wrote: >This question has come up a couple of times on this list although it is not strictly historical. But for those of you using McCall's or their other branded patterns for more than one person and wondering if it was a breech of the licensing agreement, the word from Bob Herman, president of McCall's paraphrased is " If you don't ask technical >questions, then you won't get a bad answer!". > ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 14:30:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99IUtIO002378 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:30:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99ITW76012413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:29:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99ITUdo001129; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:29:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99ITOdo001036 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:29:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04408 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:52:48 -0500 Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:52:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining and sharing primarycostuming sources - was lawsuit over reselling of commercial patterns In-Reply-To: <3F85A010.2080209@lavoltapress.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Fran Grimble wrote: > I see it from both sides too, since I am a longtime book collector and > buyer as well as a professional publisher. I think you're describing > problems that don't really exist. So it's hard to find original > works? Search harder. So it's hard to understand copyright law? > Read up on it some more. Consult a lawyer. Consult the person who > owns or may own the copyright or other rights. In other words, do > your research. > > But posting on a mailing list is not going to do anything to further > your ends. No one on h-costume can give you valid permission to do > something that is illegal, or that violates any agreements you made > with other parties. Even if everyone on the list applauds your > actions, if the person whose rights you are violating wants to sue you > they can do it. Fran, I'm hoping that you've simply misread Lisa's intent. You may not realize it, but your implications in this post could be taken as extremely insulting. Lisa's entire point in this thread is that she *is* bending over backward to observe the law -- copyright, property ownership, licensing agreements, the works. The scenarios she described were not meant to be creative excuses for illegal activities, but illustrations of some of the intrinsic contradictions and problems with these laws that threaten the rights and financial well-being of people who publish material and those (like Lisa) who observe licensing agreements and republish only within legally acceptable bounds. In no way did she indicate that she was trying to find a way around the law or intended to publish illegally. And it is perfectly reasonable for her to talk on the h-cost list about some of the difficulties facing people who want to use source material for costume research, and about her experiences in observing the law while working to make materials available. Her posts, I think, could do much to educate listmembers who don't understand why source material is not readily available to them for free. As you know, I share your strong feelings about observing copyright and publishing law ... this is part of my livelihood too, both as an editorial consultant and as a writer/researcher. But I do think statements such as this are aimed at the wrong target this time: > Posting on h-costume will change nothing whatever in regard to overall > copyright laws, licensing agreements, or property laws... > It is silly to publish (on a website or otherwise) something that you > think may be violating copyright or other laws but are not sure. And > then, for months or years, wonder if the party whose rights you may or > may not be violating will or will not find out.... > ... There is no need to do anything shady. Fran, I'm hoping that all this was meant as general advice directed to a generic "you." But on my initial reading, I'm afraid it really sounded as though you were coming down hard on Lisa, who definitely does not deserve to be scolded. Let's save that for people who really do flout the law. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 14:39:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99IddIO002415 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:39:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99IXo76012715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:33:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99IXndo004763; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:33:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99IXkdo004738 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:33:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMI00D476894N@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 11:33:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 11:33:26 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clouet painting In-reply-to: <20031009135656.31891.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031009113130.029167f0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031008114526.00b09de0@64.87.54.245> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:56 PM 10/9/2003 +0100, you wrote: >Non art majors are sometimes confused by the Clouets. >They were all known 'affectionately' at Court by >Janet. Sometimes Francois was refereed to as Francois >Janet in documents. This is probably what's causing >the ebay seller problem with dates. That would explain it, although he may have been lead to believe this by the original company writing or something. His problem, not ours, yes? And thanks for the explanation. I was a business major. My friend was the art major, but he hadn't seen it before either, and his focus was more modern. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 15:08:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99J87IO002499 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:08:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99J6o76015120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:06:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99J6lhl003895; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:06:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99J6jhl003853 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:06:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-57-108.jps.net ([209.165.57.108] helo=pavilion) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7g7I-0000XQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:06:33 -0700 Message-ID: <001101c38e98$4703a420$6c39a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001201c38cd7$46baa440$cf22a5d1@pavilion><3F831A7E.9080703@lavoltapress.com><003901c38da3$70d1f720$a12aa5d1@pavilion> <3F8447D7.3030206@lavoltapress.com><000f01c38dfe$a086bc20$b539a5d1@pavilion> <3F85A010.2080209@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining and sharingprimarycostumingsources - was lawsuit over reselling of commercial patterns Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:56:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran, I am mearly expressing various thoughts and muses I have about the role of the public domain and the influence it has in how I approach historical costuming. It is a way of helping me decided what I can and cannot do, input from others has been helpful. One needs to get a feel for the culture one is operating in, knowing the literal law is not really enough, how it works in real life and the reactions others are likely to have all influence my choices. None of what I have said should be taken as any scheme or action one way or another that I plan or wish to do literally, it is imaginary. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fran Grimble" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining and sharingprimarycostumingsources - was lawsuit over reselling of commercial patterns > > >it comes to the public domain. > > > >Say for instance, I sign an agreement to download information off the EEBO, > >and also visit museums who generously let me have access to all their > >material provided I don't republish it. And I adhere to these terms quite > >willingly. Over the years I download the entire EEBO, then, I get news that > >hurricane Isabel is on it's way so I gather my CD collection, > > > > > Your scenario is very elaborate and totally imaginary. It is not a > sitatuation you are involved in. I have doubts about its legality. > Should you find yourself in a situation anywhere near this elaborate, > call a lawyer. Should you have any doubts at all about the legality of > anything you are doing, call a lawyer. As I've said, a quick > conversation with a lawyer is a lot cheaper and less time consuming than > getting sued. > > Note that a lawsuit is by no means a "test case." Probably other people > have already sued and been sued over similar issues. There is no > guarantee that the outcome of your suit will be the same as any of theirs. > > And, my inclination on finding someone else's property is to do my best > to find the rightful owner and restore it to him or her. > > > > >This is a fairly risky proposition to be in when ones livelihood depends on > >it in my opinion. I see it from both sides. > > > I see it from both sides too, since I am a longtime book collector and > buyer as well as a professional publisher. I think you're describing > problems that don't really exist. So it's hard to find original works? > Search harder. So it's hard to understand copyright law? Read up on it > some more. Consult a lawyer. Consult the person who owns or may own > the copyright or other rights. In other words, do your research. > > But posting on a mailing list is not going to do anything to further > your ends. No one on h-costume can give you valid permission to do > something that is illegal, or that violates any agreements you made with > other parties. Even if everyone on the list applauds your actions, if > the person whose rights you are violating wants to sue you they can do it. > > Posting on h-costume will change nothing whatever in regard to overall > copyright laws, licensing agreements, or property laws. If you believe > certain laws are unfair and want to change them, ifyou believe certan > parts of the legal structure should be overhauled, you need to contact > your political representatives. > > It is silly to publish (on a website or otherwise) something that you > think may be violating copyright or other laws but are not sure. And > then, for months or years, wonder if the party whose rights you may or > may not be violating will or will not find out. And if they do whether > they will bother to sue you, or what they will do. Vew, very few > professionals will voluntarily sit on a time bomb like that. (Yes, > publishers and authors sometimes make big mistakes, and a very few are > downright dishonest. But neither carelessness nor dishonesty is the > norm. Just as business considerations, carelessness and dishonesty are > insecure and potentially very expensive.) > > If you're publishing, and that's what putting up a website is, you > should get all rights issues cleared _before_ publication. You consult > copyright owners (starting with whoever you think may be the owners, or > people they have done business with such as former publishers), you do > copyright searches, you consult a lawyer as necessary, you ask for help > with searches as necessary. And when you are either positive no > clearances are needed, or you have them recorded in writing, then you > publish. (You need permissions in writing because later on, the > copyright may be acquired by someone other than the person you got > permission from.) > > After all, you don't _have_ to publish anything. Even if you're a > professional publisher, even if you make a living from publishing, > there's always a different project. One that is equally worthwhile, > interesting, profitable, and beneficial to society. If you're not > constrained by any need to make money, your possibilities for perfectly > legal, ethical publication are enormous. There is no need to do > anything shady. > > Fran > > ----------------------------------------- > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > Historic and Vintage Dance > http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 15:08:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99J8uIO002571 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:08:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99J7m76015216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:07:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99J7jhl004839; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:07:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99J78hl004287 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:07:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-57-108.jps.net ([209.165.57.108] helo=pavilion) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7g7n-0000XQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:07:04 -0700 Message-ID: <001201c38e98$48103220$6c39a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001401c38e0c$0f2c0240$082ca5d1@pavilion> <3F85A722.5070908@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] using commercial patterns for multiple people Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:04:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Again, one needs to get a feel for the culture one is operating in, knowing the literal law is not really enough, how it works in real life and the reactions others are likely to have all influence my choices. This again is why I posted this comment. It is helpful not just to know the legal notice on patterns, but to know how the owners of the patterns really feel about what they say. One can always be sued according to the letter of the law at any time so I would always keep the legal notice in mind, but it is also helpful to know the difference between what people say publically and how they really feel. My gathering from the statement in context is if you bought a pattern for making a brides maid dress and wanted to use it for both Becky and Sue, McCalls really doesn't want to know about it. They don't want to be bothered with your letters asking if it okay to use the pattern twice, and in fact don't mind if you do, but they want to reserve the rights that they state on their patterns if they ever need resort to it. Listening for subtleties in life and not focusing on the literal can go along way in getting along with people and respecting their real desires. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fran Grimble" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] using commercial patterns for multiple people > This is an argument for not asking permissions from copyright owners or > licensers? > > If McCall's is lax, or gives tacit permission to do certain things, > that applies to no copyright owner or licenser but McCall's. (I have > some doubts as to what Herman meant, because the big pattern companies > do have fairly detailed official guidelines which I have seen their > employees post on sewing newsgroups.) > > No one can give permission to use someone else's property. No > copyright owner's or licenser's policies as to who they sue, apply to > any other copyright owner or licenser. One party may not care if you > steal their property, another may instantly call their lawyer. > > Fran > > > Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > >This question has come up a couple of times on this list although it is not strictly historical. But for those of you using McCall's or their other branded patterns for more than one person and wondering if it was a breech of the licensing agreement, the word from Bob Herman, president of McCall's paraphrased is " If you don't ask technical > >questions, then you won't get a bad answer!". > > > > ----------------------------------------- > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > Historic and Vintage Dance > http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 15:37:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99JbXIO006693 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:37:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99JaC76017942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:36:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99Ja3hl000871; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt21.cluster1.charter.net (remt21.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99JZxhl000738 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:35:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.169.191.177] (HELO charter.net) by remt21.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 20869692 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 15:35:53 -0400 Message-ID: <3F85B83A.9ACC7D55@charter.net> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:34:18 -0500 From: Joe Robertson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Modern rules was Robertson tartan References: <20031009134250.70613.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, it us very interesting how the tartan's wearing is considered almost to be legislated. Truth is, anyone can wear anything, but some setts are restricted from sale by the person, family, or entity that commissioned their construction and have the copyright on the design. For period purposes, I need to find one that is fairly nondescript and recognizable in colours that are fairly representative of the organic dyes used in period. Obviously, the psychedelic retina melters are out of the question. For simplicities sake, I started looking at already established tartans in ancient colours. Since I tend to favour reds and greens, someone suggested I look at my family's own red tartan, but in the old colours. I am also not opposed to having a solid brat, appropriately ornamented. As to construction, and due in no small part to Kass' input, I am torn between semicircular and rectangular. I am also still having difficulty finding appropriate decoration examples, including embroidery. Slainte, Joe --- Joe Robertson, Psy.D. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 16:24:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99KOKIO006855 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:24:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99KNG76022135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:23:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99KN8uq015250; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:23:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail14.nyc.untd.com (outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com [64.136.21.170]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h99KN3uq015103 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:23:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCpFRHSJYxzk47AtZfyE+oOujBzOZcFmxDA==">; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 13:22:45 PDT Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by webmail14.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JB3XBC7K; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 13:22:45 PDT Received: from [67.73.131.2] by webmail14.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:22:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [67.73.131.2] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Original-From: "seamstrix@juno.com" Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:22:09 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth I Exhibit X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain From: seamstrix@juno.com Message-Id: <20031009.132245.10325.45553@webmail14.nyc.untd.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -- Drea Leed wrote: Isn't this the exhibit that will be touring 40 libraries in the US, once it leaves the Newberry? Or is that a different Elizabeth I Library exhibit? Drea According to the program book, a 'photo reproduction' of the exhibit will be touring but not all the original pieces will be going. This is the only time that all the originals will be available, plus all the free lecture/discussions that go along with it. Karen (just trying to get folks to visit Chicago!) ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 17:22:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99LMnIO007006 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:22:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99LLX76026799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:21:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99LLT55002956; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:21:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99LLP56002786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:21:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-213.sonic.net [209.148.112.213]) (authenticated bits=0)h99LLGXN014746 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:21:17 -0700 Message-ID: <3F85D1EB.1020106@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:23:55 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] using commercial patterns for multiple people References: <001401c38e0c$0f2c0240$082ca5d1@pavilion> <3F85A722.5070908@lavoltapress.com> <001201c38e98$48103220$6c39a5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <001201c38e98$48103220$6c39a5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa Sinerv >It is helpful not just to know the legal notice >on patterns, but to know how the owners of the patterns really feel about >what they say. > I'm not sure what the owner said, but--legally, the permission you have is the license officially given by the company. Different people at the same corporation will tell you different things, or the same person will tell you different things at different times. (And I have, BTW, seen McCall's post that they _do_ care if you use one pattern twice for different people.) Some employee will not necessarily feel bound by a casual statement, their own or someone else's. The corporate sentiment this year may not be the same next year. This is why it is important to get all permissions in writing. A "feeling" is not legally secure. If a license did not in some way represent a "real desire," they would not have paid their lawyers to draw it up. You are, IMO, on little safer ground with their casual statement on the net than you'd be second-guessing their "real feelings" without such a statement. And this can quickly degenerate into net folklore where no one knows exactly was said or by which pattern company, there's just a rumor circulated that "pattern companies don't mind how many times you use their patterns." But, there's a good way around this. If you're a dressmaker and you want to use one pattern for three bridesmaids and the pattern envelope says you can't, you can just ask the pattern company and (if they really don't mind) get official permission. I've never known anyone to feel "bothered" about requests for permissions. I don't know about McCall's, but most book publishers that size have a special department for permissions. But if they don't want to bother with your request, they'll probably tell you that up front too. There's no need to guess at "the culture" and "feelings" when you can get real facts and solid permisison in writing. Legal contracts _are_ literal. If you agree to something, the other party expects you to mean it. Fran > >Listening for subtleties in life and not focusing on the literal can go >along way in getting along with people and respecting their real desires. > > > > ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 17:31:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99LVBIO007045 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:31:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99LTl76027612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:29:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99LTh55010786; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:29:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h99LTe55010731 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:29:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-118-230-145.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (angelalazear@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 21:29:40 -0000 Message-ID: <01f701c38ead$18329380$91e67643@angelap3a8d978> From: "Angela F. Lazear" To: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:34:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] help with a costume/ not exactly historic X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can anyone in the Los Angeles/Orange County are point this lady in the direction of a costumer who will help her make an ear of corn out of her elementary school aged daughter? RTTravelSales@aol.com Feel free to email her directly. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 17:32:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99LWIIO007054 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:32:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99LUX76027690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:30:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99LUW55011552; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:30:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99LUT55011501 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:30:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-56-127.jps.net ([209.165.56.127] helo=pavilion) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7iMd-0001Pq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:30:27 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01c38eaa$f49e37a0$7f38a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining and sharingprimarycostumingsources - was lawsuit over reselling of commercial patterns Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:18:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin wrote: Her posts, I think, could do much to educate > listmembers who don't understand why source material is not readily > available to them for free. > Yes, my reading of copyright law in regards to the public domain gives me a much greater appreciation as to why opertations such as the EEBO are so difficult to access. I think their very large investment is very vulnerable under current copyright laws and it's not a wonder that they are so restictive in allowing access. Because they are dealing with public domain material, they can only preserve their bread and butter (the actual books) through direct licensing agreements. I differ in opinion with Penny as to who ownes the CD's in my previous example, because Miss Penelope Chalk didn't find the actual book, which of course would be returned, but a copy of a book which in and of itself is of no historic value, plus objects are different altogether than intellectual property. But if you wanted to use the analogy, it would be as if Miss Penelope Chalk found a plastic bullet replicating a historic one at Gettysburg. The reproduction is not a national artifact. Never the less, I think eventually copyright law is going to have to move in the direction of giving some recognition to the time/money and resources someone/some organization puts into making public domain resources available and the direct relationship that input had into someone having a public domain document in their hands when it comes to compensation and reproduction rights. The current situation is just bad for everyone. Property rights are being stretched to copyrights when they shouldn't, and third parties not having any obligations to legitimate contracts invites fraud. Thus endeth the lesson!!! Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 17:32:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99LWhIO007058 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:32:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99LUr76027732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:30:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99LUq55011869; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:30:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.19.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99LUm56011705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:30:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-213.sonic.net [209.148.112.213]) (authenticated bits=0)h99LUfSe020933 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:30:41 -0700 Message-ID: <3F85D420.2040102@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:33:20 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining and sharing primarycostuming sources - was lawsuit over reselling of commercial patterns References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Fran, I'm hoping that all this was meant as general advice directed to a >generic "you." > It was. I can't count how many times I've heard people worry that something on their website may be illegal (they're not sure) and that therefore someone may sue them or otherwise make their lives unpleasant. I also can't count how many times I've heard people broach the question to a mailing list as if the list members had the power to give permission, which they don't. This has never made sense to me, because there is no real reason to be in this uneasy position. Most professional authors and publishers take the steps I mentioned to avoid it. It's silly to beat around the bush forever doing guesswork, when you can just send an email to a lawyer or to the copyright owner and get the issue resolved. Fran ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 18:04:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99M4KIO007239 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:04:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99M3976000780 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:03:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99M37Mb010887; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:03:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99M35Mb010851 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:03:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-56-127.jps.net ([209.165.56.127] helo=pavilion) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7isC-00075i-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 15:03:04 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01c38eaf$828cea80$7f38a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001401c38e0c$0f2c0240$082ca5d1@pavilion><3F85A722.5070908@lavoltapress.com> <001201c38e98$48103220$6c39a5d1@pavilion> <3F85D1EB.1020106@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] using commercial patterns for multiple people Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:51:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran - The reason Bob said what he said was so he could sell more patterns to a group of custom clothing professionals. He wanted their business $$$ and he didn't want to spend his $$$ on customer service rep salaries at his company responding in writing to requests for using patterns more than once . He also indicated if he had to respond he would say no, company policy is that patterns are single use only, but then he would lose business from this group so he said, don't ask. Everyone wins. It is as simple as that. No doubt if publicly confronted with this quote he would deny all knowledge. I passed this on because many of us on the list here are concerned about both respecting copyrights as well as the environment. Buying a second pattern means more dead trees and a possible waste of gas/petrol to go to the store to buy one. Other companies of course have different policies and I in no way mean to infer that Bob speaks for the entire pattern making industry. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 18:13:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99MDKIO007265 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:13:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99MCO76001690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:12:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99MCNMb018884; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:12:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99MCKMb018865 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:12:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id h99MCJaw016002 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:12:19 -0400 Message-Id: <200310092212.h99MCJaw016002@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:08:12 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining and sharingprimarycostumingsources - was lawsuit over reselling of commercial patterns From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If Miss Penelope Chalk recognizes what's on the CD as being a facsimile of a book, why would she think it was ok to make copies and distribute it? Any more than finding a folder full of xerox copies, or a Dover reprint, or an audio CD of Lisa and the Sinervettes singing Gregorian Chants? Also, on the CD, is there a page with the ownership & copyright info included, a "read me" file? Maybe that's something that needs to be included in these sorts of copies in case they fall into the hands of someone other than the original recipient. -Carol Lisa Sinervo said: > I differ in opinion with Penny as to who ownes the CD's > in my previous example, because Miss Penelope Chalk > didn't find the actual book, which of course would be > returned, but a copy of a book which in and of itself > is of no historic value, plus objects are different > altogether than intellectual property. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 18:32:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99MWKIO007320 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:32:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99MVV76003513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:31:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99MVSMb006165; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:31:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99MVOMc006011 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:31:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-213.sonic.net [209.148.112.213]) (authenticated bits=0)h99MVGXN024549 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:31:17 -0700 Message-ID: <3F85E253.9010104@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 15:33:55 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] using commercial patterns for multiple people References: <001401c38e0c$0f2c0240$082ca5d1@pavilion><3F85A722.5070908@lavoltapress.com> <001201c38e98$48103220$6c39a5d1@pavilion> <3F85D1EB.1020106@lavoltapress.com> <000c01c38eaf$828cea80$7f38a5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <000c01c38eaf$828cea80$7f38a5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >. He also indicated if he had to respond he would say no, company policy is >that patterns are single use only, but then he would lose business from this >group so he said, don't ask. Everyone wins. It is as simple as that. > Not if someone at McCall's later decides certain uses are not allowable and prosecutes for them. If he's going to deny it later, if it's off the record--this is not permission. >Buying a second >pattern means more dead trees and a possible waste of gas/petrol to go to >the store to buy one. > Copyright law is a totally different issue from the environment. If someone wanted to prosecute you for overusing one copy of a pattern, your desire to save trees would be considered irrelevant. If publishers (of all types) really wanted to save trees (and money) they'd sell everything in the form of downloadable files. One major reason most publications are not sold this way, is there is currently no copy-protection scheme that can't be "hacked." According to people I know who work in programming and net security, there probably never will be such copy protection. There is always at least one programmer who can manage to crack a piece of software and when they do, they tend to post their scheme on b-boards for others to use. I've spent some time observing pirate newsgroups, for professional reasons. It's very unpleasant. Aside from making you realize exactly how much damage people can do, it makes you realize there are people who are actually trying to do damage, whose intent is mostly destructive. And when they are added to (and supplying material to) a larger population who is fairly ignorant about copyright law or feels it's generally OK but their own little violations won't really hurt anything--that does even more damage, a lot more. Fran ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 18:46:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99MkbIO007365 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:46:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99MjV76004747 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:45:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99MjTMb017763; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:45:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nycsmtp4out-eri0.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp4out-eri0.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99MjMMb017641 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:45:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Martha (24-90-83-116.nyc.rr.com [24.90.83.116]) 1.0) with SMTP id h99MjKcx018970 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:45:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:45:29 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Re. sharing commercial patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO May I put in a personal note about the commercial pattern companies. I design for Simplicity. I really know very little about the business end of things at the company because I'm a free-lancer and deal with them more as an outsider. But there are a couple of things to consider. Many of the costume patterns are designed by free-lancers who make a (meager) living on royalties. When people share patterns, it's hard on us. Furthermore, if a certain number of patterns don't sell each quarter, the design is pulled from the catalogue. And that puts an end to our income from it. Unlike smaller companies that can sell the same patterns for years and years, the Big Three have only so many pages in the catalogue and only so many slots in the drawer at JoAnn's. The Big Three aren't as big as you think. Old and established, yes - but you'd be surprised how few people man the fort and how hard they work. We're not discussing General Motors here. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 19:31:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99NVpIO007438 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:31:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99NPm76007570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:25:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99NPkbx015076; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:25:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99NPibx015043 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:25:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-40-174.jps.net ([209.165.40.174] helo=pavilion) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7kAA-0005H6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 16:25:43 -0700 Message-ID: <002c01c38ebb$06865000$7f38a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200310092212.h99MCJaw016002@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining andsharingprimarycostumingsources - was lawsuit over reselling of commercialpatterns Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:13:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It is okay for Miss Penelope Chalk to publish the books on the CDs because the books on the CDs are in the public domain which means anyone in the public has the right to copy it without violating anyone else's copyright, the work is owned by the public. With specific reference to the books in the database at the EEBO these works were originally published between 1475 and 1600. U.S. copyright law says anything published before 1923 is in the public domain, no-one has the right to say, it's mine, only I can copy it. This is true for all the books in the EEBO. However, if you own one of these books you have no obligation to show it to anyone. That is a right you have because it is your personal property, you may keep it to your self, or you can say, I will make a contract with Bob the Builder to let him have a copy but I do not give him permission to reproduce the book. This is a contract between you and Bob and has nothing to do with copyright law. This is what the EEBO does, it says, if you pay a fee you may download facsimiles of these books but you may not republish them. This is a legal contract between EEBO (or the company that owns it) and me. I will indeed be in legal trouble if I do not keep this agreement. But the slavish facsimiles I have of these books carry no more copyright privileges then the original books, they are also in the public domain. They also can be republished without violating copyright law as they are copies of books printed before 1923, no copyright is attached to them. I have to keep this access and use contract with the EEBO because I agreed to it. The books do have a notice that says, not for reproduction but it doesn't really matter, the U.S. copyright law says they are in the public domain because they were published before 1923. Now, Miss Penelope Chalk was not party to the contract between the EEBO and me so it has no legal repercussions for her. What arrived on her front lawn was a set of lawfully obtained copies of public domain books that as a member of the public she has every right to reproduce as she wishes. She does not need to ask permission of the original owner for permission to publish because the owner of the books does not have a copyright over them. The owner can only allow or disallow access to their own copy, and set conditions on access. Miss Penelope Chalk doesn't need access to the book, she has copies that she found on the street. Does this make sense? I see people stretching property rights into copyright where none exist. I mean, what happens if you lose the original book? Who gives permission then? What if multiple copies exist, which property owner are you supposed to ask for permission to republish? These are spurious questions really though as the owner of the book does not have copyright over it, just access rights. The contract for access cannot apply to third parties who were never party to it. This is not to say I advocate "taking" public domain property. (can you really steal it from yourself? or is the person claiming exclusive ownership stealing it from you as a member of the public? Can you really say this about someone because if that person didn't make the material available for a fee to cover their expenses and earn a living would have any access to it at all?) I just think there should be some other way to protect people's investment in making public domain material available than the flimsy copyright/contracts that are in existence today. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining andsharingprimarycostumingsources - was lawsuit over reselling of commercialpatterns > > If Miss Penelope Chalk recognizes what's on the CD as being a facsimile of > a book, why would she think it was ok to make copies and distribute it? Any > more than finding a folder full of xerox copies, or a Dover reprint, or an > audio CD of Lisa and the Sinervettes singing Gregorian Chants? > > Also, on the CD, is there a page with the ownership & copyright info > included, a "read me" file? Maybe that's something that needs to be included > in these sorts of copies in case they fall into the hands of someone other than > the original recipient. > > -Carol > > > Lisa Sinervo said: > > I differ in opinion with Penny as to who ownes the CD's > > in my previous example, because Miss Penelope Chalk > > didn't find the actual book, which of course would be > > returned, but a copy of a book which in and of itself > > is of no historic value, plus objects are different > > altogether than intellectual property. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 19:33:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99NXrIO007441 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:33:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99NWe76008047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:32:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99NWZbx020007; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:32:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h99NWRbx019899 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:32:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-40-174.jps.net ([209.165.40.174] helo=pavilion) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7kGP-0007Td-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 16:32:09 -0700 Message-ID: <004701c38ebb$e52d84e0$7f38a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re. sharing commercial patterns Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:19:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I hope my message didn't imply sharing patterns, it was only meant to say, using a pattern more than once and this was said in a way to market patterns not sell less. Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martha Kelly" To: Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 3:45 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re. sharing commercial patterns > May I put in a personal note about the commercial pattern companies. I > design for Simplicity. > > I really know very little about the business end of things at the company > because I'm a free-lancer and deal with them more as an outsider. But there > are a couple of things to consider. Many of the costume patterns are > designed by free-lancers who make a (meager) living on royalties. When > people share patterns, it's hard on us. Furthermore, if a certain number of > patterns don't sell each quarter, the design is pulled from the catalogue. > And that puts an end to our income from it. Unlike smaller companies that > can sell the same patterns for years and years, the Big Three have only so > many pages in the catalogue and only so many slots in the drawer at JoAnn's. > > The Big Three aren't as big as you think. Old and established, yes - but > you'd be surprised how few people man the fort and how hard they work. We're > not discussing General Motors here. > > Martha > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 20:12:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9A0CtIO007529 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:12:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A0C176010326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A0BxdG012288; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:11:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.19.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A0BudH012237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:11:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-73.sonic.net [209.148.112.73]) (authenticated bits=0)h9A0BnSe009576 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:11:50 -0700 Message-ID: <3F85F9E4.9000203@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 17:14:28 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining andsharingprimarycostumingsources - was lawsuit over reselling of commercialpatterns References: <200310092212.h99MCJaw016002@jefferson.patriot.net> <002c01c38ebb$06865000$7f38a5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <002c01c38ebb$06865000$7f38a5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I just think there should be some other way to protect people's >investment in making public domain material available than the flimsy >copyright/contracts that are in existence today. > What do you suggest as an alternative? Fran ------------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 20:39:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9A0dpIO007632 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:39:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A0cQ76011793 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:38:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A0cLdG025871; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:38:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A0cIdG025845 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:38:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-41-094.jps.net ([209.165.41.94] helo=pavilion) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7lID-0007lx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 17:38:06 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01c38ec5$15580f60$5e29a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200310092212.h99MCJaw016002@jefferson.patriot.net><002c01c38ebb$06865000$7f38a5d1@pavilion> <3F85F9E4.9000203@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtainingandsharingprimarycostumingsources- was lawsuit over reselling of commercialpatterns Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:25:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That is a very good question that I have only recently been thinking about, and I definetly think it needs to be addressed at a legislative level. Of course socialism would solve the whole problem :) - But really, I don't know. How does one paid for the services provided by someone putting infromation into circulation without depriving the public of their rights to republish public domain material? Maybe in the future, CD's can have an electronic banking code in it that transfers money to the person who put the effort into making the CD available from the copiers account and this happens up to a certain amount to where the cost of production and some earning a living profit is reached and then it goes away. This way, one is free to copy and the investor gets their money too! There's a thought for starters. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fran Grimble" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtainingandsharingprimarycostumingsources- was lawsuit over reselling of commercialpatterns > > > >I just think there should be some other way to protect people's > >investment in making public domain material available than the flimsy > >copyright/contracts that are in existence today. > > > > What do you suggest as an alternative? > > Fran > > ------------------------------------------- > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > Historic and Vintage Dance > http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 21:02:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9A12VIO007671 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:02:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A10a76013278 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:00:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A10YcU008065; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:00:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A10VcU008021 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:00:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.249.181.3] (pool181-56.patriot.net [209.249.181.56]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9A10Rax007722 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:00:29 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002c01c38ebb$06865000$7f38a5d1@pavilion> References: <200310092212.h99MCJaw016002@jefferson.patriot.net> <002c01c38ebb$06865000$7f38a5d1@pavilion> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:00:58 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining andsharingprimarycostumingsources Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >The books do have a notice that says, not for reproduction but it >doesn't really matter, the U.S. copyright law says they are in the >public domain because they were published before 1923. So, when Dover books reprints something, I can make copies if the original book is pre-1923? >I mean, what happens if you lose the original book? Who gives >permission then? Whoever authorized making the CD, I would think. >What if multiple copies exist, which property owner are you supposed >to ask for permission to republish? Ask as many of them as you can find. Publish the copy belonging to whoever gives you the best agreement. >These are spurious questions really though as the owner of the book >does not have copyright over it, just access rights. The contract >for access cannot apply to third parties who were never party to it. The CD is a new publication. The material has been changed - it's been digitized. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 21:03:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9A13LIO007675 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:03:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A11x76013352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:01:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A11wcU008796; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:01:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A11tcV008725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:01:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-186.sonic.net [209.148.112.186]) (authenticated bits=0)h9A11mXN012935 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:01:49 -0700 Message-ID: <3F86059B.8090208@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 18:04:27 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtainingandsharingprimarycostumingsources- was lawsuit over reselling of commercialpatterns References: <200310092212.h99MCJaw016002@jefferson.patriot.net><002c01c38ebb$06865000$7f38a5d1@pavilion> <3F85F9E4.9000203@lavoltapress.com> <000e01c38ec5$15580f60$5e29a5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <000e01c38ec5$15580f60$5e29a5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO can have an electronic banking code in it that transfers money to the person >who put the effort into making the CD available from the copiers account and >this happens up to a certain amount to where the cost of production and some >earning a living profit is reached and then it goes away. This way, one is >free to copy and the investor gets their money too! > Why just "production and earning a living"? Why not a profit so the publisher can continue to produce more CDs? Of course, I assume the publisher would determine the amount, since they made the CD. I don't think this scheme is technically possible right now. But to me it doesn't matter. I don't think the current system is ideal, but I don't find it terribly confusing, nor do I find it terribly flimsy. Fran ------------------------------------------ Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 21:57:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9A1vUIO007795 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:57:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A1tU76016091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:55:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A1tSft005364; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:55:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A1tPft005343 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:55:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-41-094.jps.net ([209.165.41.94] helo=pavilion) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7mUf-0005Xj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 18:55:11 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01c38ecf$d8b01a20$5e29a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200310092212.h99MCJaw016002@jefferson.patriot.net> <002c01c38ebb$06865000$7f38a5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining andsharingprimarycostumingsources Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:42:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carol wrote: > >The books do have a notice that says, not for reproduction but it > >doesn't really matter, the U.S. copyright law says they are in the > >public domain because they were published before 1923. > > So, when Dover books reprints something, I can make copies if > the original book is pre-1923? Yes, as long as you have not entered into a licensing agreement with Dover in order to obtain a copy of the book you wish to publish that excludes you from doing so. Material published before 1923 is in the public domain. The right to republish it belongs to everybody. You do not have to have the original edition because the new Dover edition does not aquire new copyrights for the old material. New material added such as footnotes, editorial comments, translations, additions of illustrations not found in the old material are under copyright so you may not use that without permission. Unfortunately most books just add a general copyright and you can't tell what's new and what's old unless you see a pre 1923 copy. A great change to copyright legislation would be to require publishers to identify what material is in the public domain and what has been added. That way it would be easier to respect the copyrights they do truely hold. > The CD is a new publication. The material has been changed - > it's been digitized. So far, the US Copyright Office has refused to register most copies of scanned art work that is already in the public domain. Slavish copies of originals from the public domain contain no originality to warrant a new copyright, even in digital form. The books in my senario were slavish facsimilies. Again, I think some respect must be paid for the efforts of those who publish public domain material. It's really cutting off your nose to spite your face to run these people out of business. On the other hand, they do not "own" the right to say who can republish public domain material or who can't. This is contrary to the whole philosophy of having a public domain. I really would like to see some system that supported their investments without creating false copyrights and eliminating bullying threats or lawsuits. Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 22:32:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9A2WMIO007941 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:32:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A2VL76018074 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:31:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A2VJft024101; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:31:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A2VGfu024022 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:31:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-221.sonic.net [209.148.112.221]) (authenticated bits=0)h9A2V9XN022297 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:31:10 -0700 Message-ID: <3F861A8D.905@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 19:33:49 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining andsharingprimarycostumingsources References: <200310092212.h99MCJaw016002@jefferson.patriot.net> <002c01c38ebb$06865000$7f38a5d1@pavilion> <000c01c38ecf$d8b01a20$5e29a5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <000c01c38ecf$d8b01a20$5e29a5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >the new Dover edition does not aquire new >copyrights for the old material. > I'm sure Dover does register their books with the Copyright Office, and yes, they own those copyrights. >New material added such as footnotes, >editorial comments, translations, additions of illustrations not found in >the old material are under copyright so you may not use that without >permission. > They also own the rights to their selection of material for an anthology, their organization of that material, their changes to the original text, their changes to the illustrations, their interior and cover designs, their introductions, their bibliographies, etc. They own everything verbal and/or visual done to the original work, including both new material and changes to the old material. If, for example, they take an Elizabethan work and modernize the spelling and grammar--they own that edition of the book. > Unfortunately most books just add a general copyright and you >can't tell what's new and what's old unless you see a pre 1923 copy. > With most books it is customary to copyright the book as an entire work, to put one copyright notice in it, and to send one form (plus two copies of the book and a check) to the Copyright Office. > A >great change to copyright legislation would be to require publishers to >identify what material is in the public domain and what has been added. >That way it would be easier to respect the copyrights they do truely hold. > > The copyright claimnant (publisher or author) does truly own the copyright to their own edition of the book as a modern work. This is not some kind of lie or fake. It is not a "false copyright." They are merely protecting their own work and can defend it in court. >On the other hand, they do >not "own" the right to say who can republish public domain material or who >can't. > The point is you need to go back to the original material in the public domain--not someone else's edition. _The Public Domain_ covers this in some detail as I recall, including how to save proofs that you used an original edition in case you get sued. Fran ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 22:36:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9A2aHIO007945 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:36:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A2ZE76018233 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:35:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A2ZDft025926; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:35:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A2Z9fu025870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:35:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-221.sonic.net [209.148.112.221]) (authenticated bits=0)h9A2Z2XN022669 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:35:03 -0700 Message-ID: <3F861B75.6010406@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 19:37:41 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining andsharingprimarycostumingsources References: <200310092212.h99MCJaw016002@jefferson.patriot.net> <002c01c38ebb$06865000$7f38a5d1@pavilion> <000c01c38ecf$d8b01a20$5e29a5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <000c01c38ecf$d8b01a20$5e29a5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's not easy to make a scan look like an original, BTW. Usually it doesn't. Particularly with mass scanning jobs meant to digitize huge batches of material quickly; or at the other end, if a lot of digital enhancement has been done to clean the image up, sharpen it, etc. >So far, the US Copyright Office has refused to register most copies of >scanned art work that is already in the public domain. Slavish copies of >originals from the public domain contain no originality to warrant a new >copyright, even in digital form. > But, I thought the EEBO copies were covered by a licensing agreement, which is a different form of legal protection (you agree contractually to certain terms of use). Fran ----------------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 9 23:31:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9A3VIIO008023 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:31:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A3UD76021467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:30:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A3UCDM022769; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:30:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jetspin.drizzle.com (jetspin.drizzle.com [216.162.192.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A3U4DN022724 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:30:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from desath3 ([131.107.3.92]) (authenticated bits=0) by jetspin.drizzle.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9A3H5Q4011800 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:17:05 -0700 Message-ID: <0e4501c38ede$cb7b5f90$c829389d@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: "Sablerose" To: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:30:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Online Bayeux Tapestry Stitch resources? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h9A3VIIO008023 Status: RO So it may be slightly off topic, but does anyone know of anyonline Bayeux tapestry resources? An expert is giong to teach me, but we're having some problems meeting up and I'd like to get started and then take it to her for more advanced assistance. Tayla _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 00:17:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9A4H4IO008064 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 00:17:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A4Fx76023755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A4Fvum013261; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:15:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A4Frum013214 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:15:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-40-141.jps.net ([209.165.40.141] helo=pavilion) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7ogy-0006OO-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 21:15:53 -0700 Message-ID: <001601c38ee3$929d2b40$8d28a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200310092212.h99MCJaw016002@jefferson.patriot.net><002c01c38ebb$06865000$7f38a5d1@pavilion><000c01c38ecf$d8b01a20$5e29a5d1@pavilion> <3F861B75.6010406@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtainingandsharingprimarycostumingsources Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:04:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran wrote: > > But, I thought the EEBO copies were covered by a licensing agreement, > which is a different form of legal protection (you agree contractually > to certain terms of use). > Yes, but Miss Penelope Chalk was not party to the agreement that existed between me and the EEBO folks and unfortunately the EEBO didn't respond to the "found item" advertisement in the local newspaper. I heard she started a rival EEBO service with a lower subscription price, earned truckloads of money, and ran the original EEBO out of business. After she purchased their database software for a pittance, she jacked up the price of subscriptions and earned bucketloads more money from the movie rights she sold to her story and established a Rockefeller like foundation to support the arts. Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 00:30:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9A4UoIO008162 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 00:30:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A4Tc76024308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:29:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A4TZum019730; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:29:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.19.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A4TVun019642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:29:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-103.sonic.net [209.148.112.103]) (authenticated bits=0)h9A4TOSe002721 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:29:25 -0700 Message-ID: <3F863643.6010408@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 21:32:03 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtainingandsharingprimarycostumingsources References: <200310092212.h99MCJaw016002@jefferson.patriot.net><002c01c38ebb$06865000$7f38a5d1@pavilion><000c01c38ecf$d8b01a20$5e29a5d1@pavilion> <3F861B75.6010406@lavoltapress.com> <001601c38ee3$929d2b40$8d28a5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <001601c38ee3$929d2b40$8d28a5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Frankly, I'm sticking to real-life issues, rather than complex imaginary scenarios. Fran > was not party to the agreement that existed >between me and the EEBO folks and unfortunately the EEBO didn't respond to >the "found item" advertisement in the local newspaper. I heard she started >a rival EEBO service with a lower subscription price, > ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 01:14:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9A5E8IO008271 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 01:14:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A5DA76026374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:13:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A5D8nu008746; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:13:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A5D6nu008677 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:13:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.15e.2635094d (4426) for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 01:12:56 -0400 (EDT) From: SNSpies@aol.com Message-ID: <15e.2635094d.2cb799d8@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 01:12:56 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online Bayeux Tapestry Stitch resources? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So it may be slightly off topic, but does anyone know of anyonline Bayeux tapestry resources? An expert is giong to teach me, but we're having some problems meeting up and I'd like to get started and then take it to her for more advanced assistance. The SCA Kingdom of Atlantia Embroiderers' Guild has a wonderful web page of published and on-line sources for embroidery from the fall of Rome to the end of the Renaissance. I am sure you will find some on-line Bayeux Embroidery URLs there. The Atlantian Embroiderers' Guild - Tempore Atlantia Annotated Bibliography Nancy *********************************************************** Nancy Spies Ingvild Josefsdatter, OL Arelate Studio Barony of Bright Hills, Atlantia http://www.weavershand.com/ArelateStudio.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 01:59:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9A5xTIO008684 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 01:59:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A5uO76028176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:56:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A5uNpb028559; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:56:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A5uHpb028486 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:56:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A9EF2FDE00A6; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 00:55:59 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A9F51E401A4; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 00:56:05 -0500 Message-ID: <00d901c38ef3$a7f5b240$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 01:59:23 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: OSRELAY: Please stop using relays.osirusoft.com X-RBL-Warning: WEIGHT5: Weight of 5 reaches or exceeds the limit of 5. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] YIPPEE! A New Addition X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Today we added a long awaited project to our online Library... an entire textbook used by hairdressers in 1899 for hair care. I own three of these books, 1899, 1911, & 1923. The 1899 book is the funniest book of the three. I carried it around with me for a couple of weeks... reading and died laughing. People would ask what I was reading and I would read them sections of it. They too enjoyed it. This book does not have a lot about hairstyles but how to care for your hair. Some of the amazing sections are about washing your hair section and the baldness section (one line in it is so funny). Another section of amusement is about what color hair women should have to make the best wife (and the reasons why... it is backed up with a research study). We plan to have the 1911 Hair Textbook online in the next few months. We still have to start the typing on the 1923 book. It will be wonderful to compare the beliefs of caring for hair between 24 years. Here is the URL for the 1899 Hair book: http://www.costumegallery.com/1899/ You may view the table of contents without having one of our library cards. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 03:13:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9A7DiIO003684 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:13:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A77X76001015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 01:07:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A77UJx000851; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 01:07:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41511.mail.yahoo.com (web41511.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9A77SJx000802 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 01:07:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031010070722.25382.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41511.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:07:22 BST Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:07:22 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtainingandsharingprimarycostumingsources To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001601c38ee3$929d2b40$8d28a5d1@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Lisa Sinervo wrote: > Fran wrote: > > > > But, I thought the EEBO copies were covered by a licensing agreement, > > which is a different form of legal protection (you agree contractually > > to certain terms of use). > > > Yes, but Miss Penelope Chalk was not party to the agreement that existed > between me and the EEBO folks and unfortunately the EEBO didn't respond to > the "found item" advertisement in the local newspaper. I heard she started > a rival EEBO service with a lower subscription price, earned truckloads of > money, and ran the original EEBO out of business. After she purchased their > database software for a pittance, she jacked up the price of subscriptions > and earned bucketloads more money from the movie rights she sold to her > story and established a Rockefeller like foundation to support the arts. Okay, I bit my tongue for a long while, but can someone tell me how long this is going to go on? Because I'm tired of deleting bucketloads full of emails, I'd rather unsubscribe, it is getting seriously silly in a not good way, and that although I have someone's email address already on automatic delete anyway. Savvy? Just let me know. Nicole ===== Cap'n Cat of the good ship 'Harlot' http://www.kipar.org/society/author/pirates/ Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 08:29:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ACTBIO015269 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:29:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ACR176013004 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ACQvMv001600; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:26:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ACPhMv001073 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:25:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-40-141.jps.net ([209.165.40.141] helo=pavilion) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7wKz-0005aJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 05:25:42 -0700 Message-ID: <000801c38f27$fa70d160$8d28a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031010070722.25382.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty inobtainingandsharingprimarycostumingsources Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 05:13:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well Nicole, I think you might notice that this email from me had a change in style from the previous ones, not serious, and contains an end to the story. These little clues give a pretty good indication that the subject had reached its conclusion from my end. Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 12:07 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty inobtainingandsharingprimarycostumingsources > --- Lisa Sinervo wrote: > Fran wrote: > > > > > > But, I thought the EEBO copies were covered by a licensing agreement, > > > which is a different form of legal protection (you agree contractually > > > to certain terms of use). > > > > > Yes, but Miss Penelope Chalk was not party to the agreement that existed > > between me and the EEBO folks and unfortunately the EEBO didn't respond to > > the "found item" advertisement in the local newspaper. I heard she started > > a rival EEBO service with a lower subscription price, earned truckloads of > > money, and ran the original EEBO out of business. After she purchased their > > database software for a pittance, she jacked up the price of subscriptions > > and earned bucketloads more money from the movie rights she sold to her > > story and established a Rockefeller like foundation to support the arts. > > Okay, I bit my tongue for a long while, but can someone tell me how long this > is going to go on? Because I'm tired of deleting bucketloads full of emails, > I'd rather unsubscribe, it is getting seriously silly in a not good way, and > that although I have someone's email address already on automatic delete > anyway. > > Savvy? > > Just let me know. > > Nicole > > ===== > Cap'n Cat of the good ship 'Harlot' > http://www.kipar.org/society/author/pirates/ > > Email: nicole@kipar.org > URL: http://www.kipar.org > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 08:33:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ACXtIO015281 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:33:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ACWH76013251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:32:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ACWGMv004173; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:32:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ACWEMv004102 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:32:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m102.in-tch.com [216.166.191.102]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9ACBaH00540 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:11:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F86A759.C8A33ED3@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:34:33 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty inobtainingandsharingprimarycostumingsources References: <20031010070722.25382.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, yeah.... Can we please drop this line? This sort of futile wrangling seems to happen every time that copyright issues get brought up. And while I know the these issues are a very valid concern to researchers in general (let alone those of us who love historical costumes in one way or another), this discussion has obviously dissolved into some interpersonal crankiness. If the arguers feel the need to continue it, ad infinitum, could they please take it off-list at least? That way, it won't be clogging my inbox with stuff I have to just delete anyway. Thanks, Sue N Kipar wrote: > > --- Lisa Sinervo wrote: > Fran wrote: > > > > > > But, I thought the EEBO copies were covered by a licensing agreement, > > > which is a different form of legal protection (you agree contractually > > > to certain terms of use). > > > > > Yes, but Miss Penelope Chalk was not party to the agreement that existed > > between me and the EEBO folks and unfortunately the EEBO didn't respond to > > the "found item" advertisement in the local newspaper. I heard she started > > a rival EEBO service with a lower subscription price, earned truckloads of > > money, and ran the original EEBO out of business. After she purchased their > > database software for a pittance, she jacked up the price of subscriptions > > and earned bucketloads more money from the movie rights she sold to her > > story and established a Rockefeller like foundation to support the arts. > > Okay, I bit my tongue for a long while, but can someone tell me how long this > is going to go on? Because I'm tired of deleting bucketloads full of emails, > I'd rather unsubscribe, it is getting seriously silly in a not good way, and > that although I have someone's email address already on automatic delete > anyway. > > Savvy? > > Just let me know. > > Nicole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 09:33:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ADXQIO015428 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:33:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ADWU76016527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:32:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ADWT3R002669; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:32:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ADWQ3R002646 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:32:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-40-141.jps.net ([209.165.40.141] helo=pavilion) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7xNY-0000mL-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:32:25 -0700 Message-ID: <001701c38f31$4ab2b0e0$8d28a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:20:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Rockefeller - was copyright X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h9ADXQIO015428 Status: RO Sue wrote: >Oh, yeah.... Can we please drop this line? This sort of futile wrangling seems to happen every time that copyright issues get brought up. And while I know the these issues are a very valid concern to researchers in general (let alone those of us who love historical costumes in one way or another), this discussion has obviously dissolved into some interpersonal crankiness. If the arguers feel the need to continue it, ad infinitum, could they please take it off-list at least? That way, it won't be clogging my inbox with stuff I have to just delete anyway. Thanks, Sue Those of you who have interpreter my last post as silly or interpersonal crankiness my not be familiar with the history of Nelson Rockefeller. Rockefeller obtained his fortune by moving into small towns and setting up gas stations which undercut the completion. As soon as the competition whet out of business, he jacked up his prices and he did this again and again until he had a monopoly on oil throughout the country where he could set his price. This of course was not good, so anti-monopoly laws were introduced to halt his behavior his behavior and the eliminate detrimental effect they had on the public welfare. I used this analogy with Miss Penelope Chalk to illustrate that the current laws do not support people working with public domain material and they are very venerable to unscrupulous people. Get it now? Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 09:40:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ADe8IO015440 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:40:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ADcp76016932 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:38:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ADco3R006112; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:38:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ADcm3R006092 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:38:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-40-141.jps.net ([209.165.40.141] helo=pavilion) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7xTi-0000nV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:38:46 -0700 Message-ID: <002201c38f32$2df6ed80$8d28a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:26:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Rockefeller - was copyright X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h9ADe8IO015440 Status: RO Those of you who have interpreted my last post as silly or interpersonal crankiness my not be familiar with the history of Nelson Rockefeller. Rockefeller obtained his fortune by moving into small towns and setting up gas stations which undercut the completition. As soon as the competition went out of business, he jacked up his prices and he did this again and again until he had a monopoly on oil throughout the country where he could set his price. This of course was not good, so anti-monopoly laws were introduced to halt his behavior and the eliminate detrimental effect it had on the public welfare. I used this analogy with Miss Penelope Chalk to illustrate that the current laws do not support people working with public domain material and they are very venerable to unscrupulous people. Get it now? Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lisa Sinervo To: Historical Costume Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 6:20 AM Subject: Rockefeller - was copyright Sue wrote: >Oh, yeah.... Can we please drop this line? This sort of futile wrangling seems to happen every time that copyright issues get brought up. And while I know the these issues are a very valid concern to researchers in general (let alone those of us who love historical costumes in one way or another), this discussion has obviously dissolved into some interpersonal crankiness. If the arguers feel the need to continue it, ad infinitum, could they please take it off-list at least? That way, it won't be clogging my inbox with stuff I have to just delete anyway. Thanks, Sue Those of you who have interpreter my last post as silly or interpersonal crankiness my not be familiar with the history of Nelson Rockefeller. Rockefeller obtained his fortune by moving into small towns and setting up gas stations which undercut the completion. As soon as the competition whet out of business, he jacked up his prices and he did this again and again until he had a monopoly on oil throughout the country where he could set his price. This of course was not good, so anti-monopoly laws were introduced to halt his behavior his behavior and the eliminate detrimental effect they had on the public welfare. I used this analogy with Miss Penelope Chalk to illustrate that the current laws do not support people working with public domain material and they are very venerable to unscrupulous people. Get it now? Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 09:49:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ADnoIO015487 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:49:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ADmb76017539 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:48:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ADmZ3R011299; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:48:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ADmX3R011230 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:48:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m133.in-tch.com [216.166.191.133]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9ADRrH29654 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:27:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F86B93B.F5AC3B55@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:50:51 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rockefeller - was copyright References: <001701c38f31$4ab2b0e0$8d28a5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I got it, all right. The first time. And the second time. And the third. As I wrote, I realize that copyright issues are of very valid concern. I also realize that such topics can bring up very strong opinions in people, especially those who know quite a lot about a given topic. I did NOT, however, ever refer to anyone's post on this as "silly." I did state my opinion that, once again, a discussion on copyright issues has dissolved into a public argument between only a few people on this list, and that the back-and-forth posts were clogging mailboxes, causing some of us, at least, to automatically hit the delete button. In my own opinion, this topic has gone waaay off having anything much of anything constructive to do with "historical costume." I, like Nicole, wish very much that it would go away, so that we can back to the stated purpose of the list. Got that? --sue And yes, I'm familiar with that particular story, as I am with the stories of some other, equally predatory, modern business practices. But they're not germane to this list, so I don't feel the need to bring them up. Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > Sue wrote: > > >Oh, yeah.... > Can we please drop this line? This sort of futile wrangling seems to > happen every time that copyright issues get brought up. And while I > know the these issues are a very valid concern to researchers in general > (let alone those of us who love historical costumes in one way or > another), this discussion has obviously dissolved into some > interpersonal crankiness. If the arguers feel the need to continue it, > ad infinitum, could they please take it off-list at least? That way, it > won't be clogging my inbox with stuff I have to just delete anyway. > Thanks, > Sue > > Those of you who have interpreter my last post as silly or interpersonal crankiness my not be familiar with the history of Nelson Rockefeller. Rockefeller obtained his fortune by moving into small towns and setting up gas stations which undercut the completion. As soon as the competition whet out of business, he jacked up his prices and he did this again and again until he had a monopoly on oil throughout the country where he could set his price. This of course was not good, so anti-monopoly laws were introduced to halt his behavior his behavior and the eliminate detrimental effect they had on the public welfare. > > I used this analogy with Miss Penelope Chalk to illustrate that the current laws do not support people working with public domain material and they are very venerable to unscrupulous people. > > Get it now? > > Lisa Sinervo > www.thrednedlestrete.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 10:11:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9AEBNIO015554 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:11:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AEAC76019564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:10:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AEAAmG023711; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:10:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AEA7mG023678 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:10:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-40-141.jps.net ([209.165.40.141] helo=pavilion) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7xy2-0002We-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:10:07 -0700 Message-ID: <004401c38f36$8e544840$8d28a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001701c38f31$4ab2b0e0$8d28a5d1@pavilion> <3F86B93B.F5AC3B55@in-tch.com> Subject: end of post - Re: [h-cost] Rockefeller - was copyright Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:58:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Sue wrote: > > > > >Oh, yeah.... > > Can we please drop this line? This sort of futile wrangling seems to > > happen every time that copyright issues get brought up. I'd like to finish up (once again) by saying that I do apologies for those who feel clogged up by my emails, but I have also come away from this round of copyright discussion with some ideas now and a much clearer picture of how copyright law relates to my costume research endeavors, and may even take it up further, as suggested, with those with legislative authority. Thanks again, Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 10:29:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9AETxIO016190 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:29:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AESs76021059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:28:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AESqmG005559; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:28:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AESnmG005504 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:28:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-40-141.jps.net ([209.165.40.141] helo=pavilion) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7yG8-00054L-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:28:48 -0700 Message-ID: <009201c38f39$2a391e00$8d28a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:16:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] background info - X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h9AETxIO016190 Status: RO The reason I've gone on and on about copyright at this time is because I have just discovered the EEBO. I'm absolutely gobsmacked at the information in that database that costumers would find usefull. I was shocked to find how close all those public domain documents were if I only knew about it, if costumers could only have access to it then we wouldn't all be running around with our heads cut off to find info. Hence my pre-occupation with copyright at the moment. It wasn't just another round for the sake of having a round. Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 10:39:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9AEdrIO016215 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:39:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AEcF76021720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:38:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AEcCmG011880; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:38:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AEc8mG011837 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:38:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.219]) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A7yP9-0006kt-00; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:38:07 -0700 Message-ID: <1030324.1065796687593.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:37:58 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Christine Krebs-Bonder To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume Subject: Copyright and preservation of primary sources (was: re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining...] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I find I must de-lurk after reading the recent posts regrding copyright and public domain sources. THE FOLLOWING IS NOT INTENDED TO BE LEGAL ADVICE!!! If you aren't sure your use of a published document or computer file or image isn't legal, contact an attorney or a local law school. In my paralegal training on intellectual property and copyright I was taught that a collection of material which contains individual public domain documents is protected by the copyright of the editor. What is being protected is the specific layout, any notes or additional commentary, and so forth. THe editor is not claiming copyright on the original public domain material itself. In the example of the CD, a person copying the CD in entirety as it was published by the editor for distribution to other people (whether for a fee or for free) is definitely breaking copyright law. However, making a back-up copy of the CD for you to put away in case the first one gets damaged and becomes unusable is valid "fair use." If you copy a drawing from a facsimile of Alcega's book (for example) because you want to make a full size pattern for your own personal use in making that garb for Coronation, you aren't violating copyright law because Alcega's work is in the public domain. Copying the entire facsimile is violating copyright. Also, if you copy a pattern that someone made that was based on information from the Alcega pattern which they modified to fit modern body shapes you are violating the copyright of that person's original/deriviative work. I agree it's is very frustrating to be researching something and running into the "brick wall" of "it's too expensive to buy access to the database/the facsimile because it is a limited edition." It's equally frustrating for a person who has worked to gather information, collate pages and notes, and write commentary on a fragmentary document to find that there are copies of her work out there that were pirated. Copyright allows the editor/author to receive recompense for the work they did. Much of the primary documentation for historic costuming is in the hands of museums. The facsimiles and photographs that are so expensive help to pay for the preservation and research of these unique and invaluable documents and extant garments (which is horrifically expensive). There is nothing in copyright law that prevents a group of like-minded historical costumers from chipping in to pay for a facsimile or set of photgraphs with measurements that they can share and work from. It's the taking those facsimiles and photographs to Kinko's or Staples and getting full size color copies ofthe entire package made up for each and every person in the group that is the violation. Frankly, I'd rather that access to the primary documents and garments themselves remain difficult to physically lay hands on. Many well-meaning amateur (doing it from the love of it) researchers are not trained in the techniques of handling such fragile objects. I know I'm not. As much as I would love to be able to go to the V&A and actually physically examine the inside construction of a gown or gentleman's jacket from the early Regency period or pore over a piece of Renaissance textile, I know that my handling it could damage it, if not destroy it. I'm going to have to rely on those properly trained to do the measuring and take the photographs and notes for me and I'm going to have to pay for it. Copyright isn't about someone being selfish and keeping these objects and information away from us. It actually ensures that the information being circulated is accurate and correct and provides for the money for the research and preservation to continue. Yours sincerely, Christine Krebs-Bonder (Paralegal, historic costumer, and amateur researcher) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 11:21:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9AFLDIO016318 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:21:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AFI076025347 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:18:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AFHvKs011501; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:17:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AFHpKs011409 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:17:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id h9AFHoaw017334 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:17:50 -0400 Message-Id: <200310101517.h9AFHoaw017334@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:13:43 -0000 To: Historical Costume From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 Subject: [h-cost] EEBO X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Lisa, You probably posted this at the beginning of the discussion, but would you post info again about the EEBO? How would I get in touch with them, what is the subscription fee, etc? It sounds like a great resource, and I'd like to know more about it. Thanks! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 11:36:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9AFa6IO016336 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:36:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AFVx76026729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:31:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AFVvKs022682; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:31:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AFVrKs022585 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:31:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:31:23 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:51:35 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Elizabeth Maritime Exhibit catalogue X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I remember some folks talking about this being available, but not what the finally opinion was on how good this catalogue might be for a resource. I am looking for costume & needlework in particular. Reviews anyone? Thanks, Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 12:27:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9AGR7IO017353 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:27:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AGNh76002065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:23:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AGN2LU006888; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AGMwLV006737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:22:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-134.sonic.net [209.148.112.134]) (authenticated bits=0)h9AGMpXN032217 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:22:52 -0700 Message-ID: <3F86DD7B.6090602@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:25:31 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rockefeller - was copyright References: <001701c38f31$4ab2b0e0$8d28a5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <001701c38f31$4ab2b0e0$8d28a5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It would be easier for me to understand what you are getting at if you talked about your current situation and goals, rather than an imaginary scenario regarding someone else. Current US laws do support changes and additions made to public domain material. Furthermore, ownership of modern US copyright is not dependent on registration with the Copyright Office or on publication. It exists as soon as the work is in "fixed and tangible form" (that is not just an idea in someone's head), and this includes drafts as well as a final version. It includes design and layout as well as text and illustrations. So, your own original work is protected, which is the purpose of copyright. It does not matter if you say on form TX that you are registering (among other things) "new illustrations," but you do not list them. That would get way too complicated (you only get a couple of lines to say what you're registering), and they're all copyrighted anyway. It is unfortunate if some people are so unscrupulous as to steal facsimiles regardless of the expense and effort that goes into producing them. I agree the ultimate effect would probably be that people quit producing the facsimiles. If this is a potential problem for you--well, a lawyer might help, but on the other hand reprinting public domain material may not be the best thing for you to do. Fran > >I used this analogy with Miss Penelope Chalk to illustrate that the current laws do not support people working with public domain material and they are very venerable to unscrupulous people. > >Get it now? > > ------------------------------------------ Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 15:49:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9AJnUIO019237 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:49:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AJm476026406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:48:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AJllKX028143; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:47:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AJlgKX028055 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:47:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-57-243.jps.net ([209.165.57.243] helo=pavilion) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A83Ei-0000Jf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:47:41 -0700 Message-ID: <003701c38f65$b4545380$f339a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200310101517.h9AFHoaw017334@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] EEBO Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:35:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The EEBO stands for Early English Books Online and is a project that has collected over 100,000 books from 1475-1600. They have just about every english reference book you could ever dream of looking at barring public records. All the editions of Stubbes Anatomy of Abuses are there, Stowe's Annals of England, Custom rates for textiles, make up books, proclamations, statutes, ever lasting gobstoppers and four course flavoured gum that doesn't even turn you into a blueberry when your done!. The EEBO has got it all! The books are facsimilies of the originals put into pdf form. They are also working on a project to translate these books into searchable text, including a searchable version of Stubbes. I can't believe how ignorant I was to think access to Stubbes was limited to some scant copies around the world. Some very sophisticated programmers and museums have been working together to preserve these texts. When I saw the database, it was if a 250 watt lightbulb went on in my head. Before I couldn't work out why so many people were able to reference the introduction of starch when Annals of England hadn't been reprinted for 400 years. It all made sense. This project must have cost millions of dollars to put together and countless hours. My concern for copyright arose because I could see that current laws and court cases do not give any consideration to the investment people have made in bringing public domain works to the public, just whether someone was party to a contract or not, and I think that courts should consider the investment and the direct relationship that work had in providing someone access to a public domain work in cases brought before them. Legislation would be required. My imaginary case was to show the weakness in the current laws for organisations such as the EEBO who are engaged in bringing public domain works to the public. If I had out of copyright books as my business under the current copyright rules I would rather seek more reputable clients than risk selling individual subscriptions to unknowns who might foolishly put the downloads on the hood of the car and drive off leaving them in the hands of some third party or some similar senario. You can find the EEBO here - http://wwwlib.umi.com/eebo/ and there are about 200 books for you to sample including Gerards Herbal under botany. But to access the entire EEBO you need to have a subscription, which is about $3,000. Major universities probably have subscription if you can get access to them. Hope this is of some assistance. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 8:13 AM Subject: [h-cost] EEBO > Hi Lisa, > > You probably posted this at the beginning of the discussion, but would you > post info again about the EEBO? How would I get in touch with them, what is > the subscription fee, etc? > > It sounds like a great resource, and I'd like to know more about it. > > Thanks! > -Carol > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 16:24:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9AKOqIO019367 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:24:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AKNj76002884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:23:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AKNgCl000723; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:23:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AKNdCl000636 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:23:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21BFC425D0 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:26:41 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3F871574.4020908@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:24:20 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] EEBO and the British Manuscripts Project References: <200310101517.h9AFHoaw017334@jefferson.patriot.net> <003701c38f65$b4545380$f339a5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <003701c38f65$b4545380$f339a5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa Sinervo wrote: > The EEBO stands for Early English Books Online and is a project that has > collected over 100,000 books from 1475-1600. snip > Before I couldn't work out why so many people were able to reference the > introduction of starch when Annals of England hadn't been reprinted for 400 > years. Not many people seem to know that the contents of the British Museum Department of Manuscripts, Cambridge University Library, Public Record Office, Lincoln Cathedral, Oxford Bodleian Library and several other great collections were microfilmed from 1941-1944 -- to preserve them from the threat of war -- and are now in the Library of Congress in Washington DC. The collection can be viewed free, or copies acquired (if you know what microfilm reel you want) for the cost of photocopying. The US Govt. Printing Office put out an index to part of the colection in 1955. I have a reprint from 1966. I don't know of any that were printed after that date. It's called "The British Manuscripts Project". Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 17:18:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ALISIO019544 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:18:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ALHJ76007261 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:17:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ALHHGf014865; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:17:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ALHDGf014827 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:17:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1A84dM-00042s-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:17:13 +0100 Message-ID: <+XDJzFD1Fyh$IwSG@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:15:33 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT? Lace judge's jabots UK References: <3F846850.1000404@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <3F846850.1000404@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not only judges but also ... the Moderator (President/Chairman? top person, elected each year) of the Church of Scotland wears lace jabot and cuffs. It's traditionally bought for him by his own church congregation. They're also worn with some styles of kilt jacket, so there's a few other places you could look apart from just legal costume. Jean Cynthia Virtue wrote >Hi Folks, > >I don't know if this is a historical thing or not. The lady found me >via my webpage; please drop me a note if you've got a suggestion. >Thanks! > >-------- Original Message -------- > > >Question -- do you have a pattern for making a lace jabot such as the >British folk wear (or wore) with their robes and wigs? > >We have a friend & co-worker who just became a judge, and we are trying >to furnish her with all the trappings (without spending a fortune!) > > -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 17:35:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ALZQIO019603 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:35:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ALYG76008639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:34:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ALYDGf028032; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:34:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ALY8Gf027881 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:34:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (bgp380694bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.16.142]) by webwarren.com (8.12.9/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9ALXxvV029630 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:34:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031010170804.0706e150@earthlink.net> X-Sender: X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:28:39 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell In-Reply-To: <200310101438.h9AEcUmH012084@net.indra.com> References: <200310101438.h9AEcUmH012084@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Databases, IP, and contractual law (WAS: Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 643) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thu, 09 Oct 2003 21:32:03 -0700, Fran Grimble responded to Lisa Sinervo: >Frankly, I'm sticking to real-life issues, rather than complex imaginary >scenarios. > >>was not party to the agreement that existed between me and the EEBO folks >>and unfortunately the EEBO didn't respond to >>the "found item" advertisement in the local newspaper. I heard she >>started a rival EEBO service with a lower subscription price, I hate to burst your bubble, Fran, but except for "finding the disc" and "placing an ad", this IS a real-life scenario. Some database producers and aggregators routinely rip off other publishers' records, though those records are usually much more time-sensitive publications in much more competitive fields than collecting-and-scanning historical documents. It's hard to catch them because each aggregated product is a separate and novel product protected by its own contracts and agreements, and it's hard to find the needle that is your database's work amidst the haystack that is the entire collection of several hundred databases -- especially if your database is much smaller than the "file" (database) into which the aggregator is placing your records. This is about all I can say on the matter publicly. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 18:08:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9AM8rIO019690 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:08:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AM7h76011419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AM7fXk024163; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:07:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AM7bXl024061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:07:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-75.sonic.net [209.148.112.75]) (authenticated bits=0)h9AM7UXN015664 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:07:31 -0700 Message-ID: <3F872E42.8090705@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:10:10 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Databases, IP, and contractual law (WAS: Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 643) References: <200310101438.h9AEcUmH012084@net.indra.com> <6.0.0.22.0.20031010170804.0706e150@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20031010170804.0706e150@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I do know some people steal and sell database info. (There is no form of intellectual property someone or other will not try to steal.) But I prefer to deal with real-life problems as they come up. Or when a planned action has potential real-life problems that should be prevented, for example by writing a contract that minimizes the risk of those problems. My assumption was that Lisa had, or feared, some copyright problem of her own, since she does publish on a website and seems to plan to extend the site. Afraid someone would violate her copyrights? Afraid she might violate someone else's? I did not know what the problem was and was therefore unable to suggest a solution. As for protecting other peoples' work, I think what is necessary is to be aware of their rights. To be careful to not violate them yourself. And, if you suspect a violation by some third party, to notify the copyright owner of a (possible) problem so they can deal with it. Fran > > I hate to burst your bubble, Fran, but except for "finding the disc" > and "placing an ad", this IS a real-life scenario. Some database > producers and aggregators routinely rip off other publishers' records, > Brenda > webwarren@earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 18:41:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9AMfIIO019749 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:41:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AMde76013797 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:39:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9AMdZXk017336; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:39:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12006.mail.yahoo.com (web12006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.214]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9AMdXXk017308 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:39:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031010223932.49132.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.222] by web12006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:39:32 PDT Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:39:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] fulling wool?/cording patterns/Butterick Gone with the Wind pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How does one full wool? I have some camel hair/sheeps wool coating weight wool for an Edwardian cape with lots of cording couched down. How do I full the wool? Do I need to do seam finishes and if so, how? Since this is a coating wool and fairly thick do I need to back the couching for strength and durability? Should this be lined? I wasn't going to as this is a thick wool but if I need to back the corded area then it should probably be lined? This has made me wonder about cording patterns? And couching patterns? How old is couching or braided cord as a trimming? Not gold or precious metals but just cord or braided cordings, not necessarily tablet weaving, just braiding. Any good websites or books? Butterick has a new Gone with the Wind pattern under their costumes. It looks remarkably like the dress that she made out of the curtains down to the color and the asymmetrical sleeves. How accurate is this to the movie? I've always admired the costumes Walter Plunkett did for Vivien Leigh so wondered how close a copy this is? Cassandra __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 19:35:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ANZvIO019866 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:35:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ANYw76017077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:34:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ANYuQc022051; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:34:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ANYrQc022035 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:34:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by scanmail1.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:14:51 -0700 Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id AD67F05500DE; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:14:50 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (24-117-44-29.cpe.cableone.net [24.117.44.29]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:14:50 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] fulling wool?/cording patterns/Butterick Gone with the Wind pattern Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:19:03 -0500 Message-ID: <001601c38f84$e720d710$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <20031010223932.49132.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-117-44-29.cpe.cableone.net [24.117.44.29] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How does one full wool? I have some camel hair/sheeps wool coating weight wool for an Edwardian cape with lots of cording couched down. How do I full the wool? *************** Unless you wove it yourself, the wool has already been fulled during the manufacturing process. If you want it to shrink, be heavier and tighter (also smaller!), machine wash in hot water with mild detergent, then machine dry. This is called felting, not fulling. Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 20:00:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9B00uIO019930 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:00:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ANxt76018566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:59:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ANxrh7005259; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:59:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.thibault.org [66.92.75.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ANxoh8005183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:59:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by sergyar.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h9B07TQG020909 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:07:29 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by sergyar.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:07:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F874820.90706@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:00:32 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fulling wool?/cording patterns/Butterick Gone with the Wind pattern References: <001601c38f84$e720d710$0201a8c0@kimathlon> In-Reply-To: <001601c38f84$e720d710$0201a8c0@kimathlon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kim Baird wrote: > If you want it to shrink, be heavier and tighter (also smaller!), > machine wash in hot water with mild detergent, then machine dry. This is > called felting, not fulling. This must be one of those cases of a need for precision, because the Online Webster's isn't particularly useful in figuring out the difference; they're mostly synonymous. (See below.) Could you expand on the difference for us? Thanks, cv Main Entry: full Function: transitive verb Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French fouler to trample under foot, from Medieval Latin fullare to walk, trample, full, from Latin fullo fuller Date: 14th century : to shrink and thicken (woolen cloth) by moistening, heating, and pressing Main Entry: felt Function: transitive verb Date: 14th century 1 : to make out of or cover with felt 2 : to cause to adhere and mat together 3 : to make into felt or a similar substance -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. -- Noam Chomsky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 20:23:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9B0NOIO019980 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:23:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B0MI76019755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:22:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B0MHh7016696; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:22:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9B0MFh7016638 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:22:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Okl4NLRMxk+YuXKVZu94XR4=">; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:21:57 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JB6XD37Q; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:21:57 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:19:58 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Databases, IP, and contractual law (WAS: Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 643) Message-ID: <20031010.172130.1432.5.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Please guys, can this discussion go private? It's been several days now. thank you. Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 21:03:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9B13jIO020081 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:03:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B12c76021948 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:02:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B12a4U005995; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:02:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net (scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B12X4U005974 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:02:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net ([10.116.0.122]) by scanmail2.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:58:24 -0700 Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122] by scanmail2.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A5B088E010E; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:58:24 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (24-117-44-29.cpe.cableone.net [24.117.44.29]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:58:24 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] fulling wool?/cording patterns/Butterick Gone with theWind pattern Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:02:42 -0500 Message-ID: <001701c38f93$5ff48250$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <3F874820.90706@thibault.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-117-44-29.cpe.cableone.net [24.117.44.29] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9B12X4U005974 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think the difference is one of degree. Most commercial woolen cloth is fulled. That is, it has been treated to fluff up the fabrics, shrink the weave and thicken the fabric. But this is only done to a certain extent, to make a nicer fabric. You wouldn’t want to use wool just off the loom for most applications. If you could see wool fabric before and after fulling, you would find the "before" wool unfamiliar, but the "after" wool would look normal, what you are used to seeing. Felting, when it refers to woven woollens, is taking the same process further, as far as it will go. The resulting fabric is thick and a bit stiff. You probably can't even see the weave. It is more expensive (think Austrian boiled wool jackets) because the wool doesn't go as far, and the extra processing time and effort also add to the cost. Fulling and felting are not done with cotton, linen or other plant fibers. They won't felt, the fibers are too smooth. If you look at wool under a microscope, you will see it is scaly, like a fish. Heat, pressure and agitation cause the little scales on the wool fibers to get all stuck together, which is why you can make a fabric from wool by simply felting. You don't have to spin and weave or knit it. It's not as durable, but is thick and warm. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Cynthia Virtue Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 7:01 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fulling wool?/cording patterns/Butterick Gone with theWind pattern Kim Baird wrote: > If you want it to shrink, be heavier and tighter (also smaller!), > machine wash in hot water with mild detergent, then machine dry. This is > called felting, not fulling. This must be one of those cases of a need for precision, because the Online Webster's isn't particularly useful in figuring out the difference; they're mostly synonymous. (See below.) Could you expand on the difference for us? Thanks, cv Main Entry: full Function: transitive verb Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French fouler to trample under foot, from Medieval Latin fullare to walk, trample, full, from Latin fullo fuller Date: 14th century : to shrink and thicken (woolen cloth) by moistening, heating, and pressing Main Entry: felt Function: transitive verb Date: 14th century 1 : to make out of or cover with felt 2 : to cause to adhere and mat together 3 : to make into felt or a similar substance -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. -- Noam Chomsky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 21:18:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9B1IqIO020145 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:18:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B1Hf76022745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:17:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B1Hc4U013368; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:17:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B1HZ4V013314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:17:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (acty4112.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.249.112]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9B1HXxO028648 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:17:34 -0400 Message-ID: <3F875A29.1000803@dandy.net> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:17:29 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: MDRF meetup References: <200310081617.h98GGl85029274@net.indra.com> <3F84B1EC.6010806@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <3F84B1EC.6010806@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. If you guys are in the area, drive a little further down to St. Maries City and visit some other h-costers. We'll be doing the Grand Muster (1640s period) then... Cheers, Mike T. > > > >> Greetings, all! >> >> So far, there are 4-ish of us who will be at MDRF on 10/18-19. >> >> We're meeting at 1:30 PM Saturday, October 18, at the White Hart Inn. >> >> Don't know about a Big Red M or a Big Red H...maybe, if I have time. >> (yeah, right.) >> > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 21:42:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9B1ghIO020247 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:42:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B1fi76023747 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:41:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B1fh4U024309; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:41:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B1fd4U024231 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:41:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-47-086.jps.net ([209.165.47.86] helo=pavilion) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A88lG-0003lZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:41:38 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01c38f97$25834760$562fa5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200310101517.h9AFHoaw017334@jefferson.patriot.net><003701c38f65$b4545380$f339a5d1@pavilion> <3F871574.4020908@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] EEBO and the British Manuscripts Project Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:29:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn wrote: > > Not many people seem to know that the contents of the British Museum > Department of Manuscripts, Cambridge University Library, Public Record > Office, Lincoln Cathedral, Oxford Bodleian Library and several other > great collections were microfilmed from 1941-1944 -- to preserve them > from the threat of war -- and are now in the Library of Congress in > Washington DC. > > The collection can be viewed free, or copies acquired (if you know what > microfilm reel you want) for the cost of photocopying. The US Govt. > Printing Office put out an index to part of the colection in 1955. I > have a reprint from 1966. I don't know of any that were printed after > that date. It's called "The British Manuscripts Project". > It truly amazes me that so many people have made such an effort to preserve and make available these documents. I mean, I scanned my copy of Stubbes and it was a pain in the ass to do so yet some of these projects would add up to hundreds and thousands of probably millions of pages, boring tedious work, time consuming and expensive work, and we can view it even if it takes some effort! I may have been carrying on and on but I'm a bit awestruck at the moment. The magnitude of the EEBO really changed my perspective on a number of issues. Thanks for the info on the British Manuscript project, I did know or at least didn't recall that. The Public Record Office has a starch contract that I've been meaning to order a copy of. I may have pissed quite a few people off, but my jaw is still dropped and I'm still drooling! I can only claim temporary insanity! Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 22:35:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9B2Z5IO020424 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:35:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B2Y376025915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:34:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B2Y1pO017216; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:34:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B2XvpP017194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:33:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (acty4112.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.249.112]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9B2XtxO006943 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:33:56 -0400 Message-ID: <3F876C10.4090900@dandy.net> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:33:52 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining and etc. References: <000b01c38eaa$f49e37a0$7f38a5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <000b01c38eaa$f49e37a0$7f38a5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. I follow the line of logic in this way. There are many copies of a particular work, and each, because of the vagaries of Renaissance printing, are different. Some may be bound with other works, others may contain errata or have missing pages. A particular book, say, in the posession of the British Library, having a catalog number of BL 107-2b, is that book. Others may exist, but copying that identifiable book is essentially stealing a portion of the value of that book, or using it in a way not consistent with the wishes of the owner. I had a similar problem. A book dealer in England whose name I will not mention managed to get a photocopy of an English Civil War Drill manual from me, ostensibly for study and comparison. He promised to send me the text portion in exchange, for the same purpose. I found later that he was marketing the complete text. I have never gotten the text portion, and I suspect that he doesn't want to part with the marketable parts. I wish I knew which library the material came from, and I'd send them a note. I own a few original books, and I would be loathe to let someone copy them, for fear they would make money on my investment without cutting me in. I didn't author the books, the authors are long gone, yet they are my investment, to do with as I wish. Just my few thoughts..., Mike T. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 23:22:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9B3MlIO020554 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:22:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B3Lj76028319 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:21:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B3Lgpx008487; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:21:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12004.mail.yahoo.com (web12004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9B3Lepx008472 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:21:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031011032140.71452.qmail@web12004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.212] by web12004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:21:40 PDT Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:21:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] fulling wool/lucet cord cording X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Okay I think I see the difference. I'm used to thinking of felting as matting the fibers together without weaving them first. If I run the wool through the washer/dryer once it will thicken and shrink. If I do this more than once the shrinking and thickening will continue? I do plan on doing samples first as this wool seems to fray more than the other coating weight wools I have on hand. Would the addition of the camel's hair be the difference? I got the wool with the camel's hair added a long time ago because it wasn't as scratchy as the other woolens available then. Is camel's hair wool softer because the camel's hair is smoother? As this seems to fray quite a bit how would I finish the seams? I'm not intending to line this but may find I need to to cover over the couching stitches on the underside. Where can I get soutache braid or something similar in large quantities? I don't think I want soutache as it has the channel down the center but something along those lines would be great. I envision some non-slippery matt finish cord or perhaps a narrow woven braid a quarter inch wide or less. Would lucet cord work? And what is lucet cord? How is it made? I know it is supposed to be good for corset laces but I'm rather vague on it other than that one reference. Thanks, Cassandra __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 10 23:52:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9B3pxIO020643 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:51:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B3on76029315 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:50:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B3ompx020295; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:50:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brazilnut.cc.columbia.edu (IDENT:cu41754@brazilnut.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.203]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B3oiq0020223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:50:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from VAIO (dyn-shp-225-184.dyn.columbia.edu [160.39.225.184]) (user=asj2001 mech=LOGIN bits=0)h9B3oc1f003044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:50:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003201c38faa$3dd7c8f0$9865fea9@VAIO> From: "Alexia S. Jacobs" To: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:46:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Fabric in NYC X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h9B3pxIO020643 Status: RO Just in case someone has trouble finding it...B & J Fabric is now on the second floor of 525 7th Ave on the corner of 38th St. I found what I needed there. Thanks _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 11 00:47:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9B4lwIO020716 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 00:47:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B4kH76001892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:46:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B4kE2h012989; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:46:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop-5.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-5.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B4kA2h012943 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:46:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from there (d14-69-12-106.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.106.12]) h9B4k4A01669 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:46:05 -0500 Message-Id: <200310110446.h9B4k4A01669@pop-5.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Michelle Plumb To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 00:47:08 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] More recommendations from Bjarne? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the embroidery book suggestions, Bjarne. They arrived this week. I've also ordered some Eterna Silk floss, so that leaves one other item. What would you recommend as a good fabric for the beginner to work on? I have tons of Jobelin from my mother's cross-stitching days, will that do? Thanks for all your advice, Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 11 01:05:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9B556IO020819 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:05:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B54C76002714 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:04:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B54AXT019625; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:04:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B548XT019593 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:04:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AF233F990088; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 00:03:31 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AF2822D01B2; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 00:03:36 -0500 Message-ID: <009101c38fb5$8338dbe0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:07:04 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Du Barry VS Antoinette Films X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have been holding these questions for a long time now.... waiting for the right moment to ask. Seems like we need a change of topic, so here they are: Last spring I got to see the films Madame DuBarry and Marie Antoinette. I do not know a lot about this time period but had lots of questions. 1. How historically factual are the films? 2. The films seem to overlap one another. Did these lives in reality? 3. Was Marie really framed for the jewelry or was that just Hollywood? 4. I know Marie was the costume designer, Adrian's, greatest accomplishment as a designer. How accurate were the costumes? I really enjoyed the men's costumes and the hairstyles of everyone. 5. Was Marie groomed to be a queen her whole life? Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 11 04:02:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9B82iIO001742 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 04:02:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B81W76007775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Oct 2003 02:01:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B81S5A024008; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 02:01:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from obsidian.spiritone.com (obsidian.spiritone.com [216.99.193.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9B81O5B023991 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 02:01:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0)h9B83ca7012514 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:03:39 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:05:01 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3F86A759.C8A33ED3@in-tch.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Copyright yet again - A learning Experience X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I disagree that we should drop this line, or that we should throttle it at birth as it comes up every few months. H-Costume has a constantly changing group of readers. Just because some of us have seen this discussion again and again doesn't mean that the 50 or so new people who have joined the group since the last iteration have. We need to keep educating people. Yes, I understand they could read it all in the archives, the truth is that they won't. I think a better idea is that copyright issues should be plainly marked in the Subject line, and for all but the digest users, a liberal use of the delete button will solve the problem of unwanted posts. Personally I learn things every time it comes up and I've been a subscriber for several years. If Lisa hadn't posted about EEBO I wouldn't have known about it at all and I might be able to use it in a limited way. (Horrors! What a thought. Actual use of the scholarship that is locked up out there by the great unwashed public, unblessed by the academic priesthood! Next they will be putting computers in the hands of Users!) Regina Romsey > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Sue Clemenger > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 5:35 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty > inobtainingandsharingprimarycostumingsources > > > Oh, yeah.... > Can we please drop this line? This sort of futile wrangling seems to > happen every time that copyright issues get brought up. And while I > know the these issues are a very valid concern to researchers in general > (let alone those of us who love historical costumes in one way or > another), this discussion has obviously dissolved into some > interpersonal crankiness. If the arguers feel the need to continue it, > ad infinitum, could they please take it off-list at least? That way, it > won't be clogging my inbox with stuff I have to just delete anyway. > Thanks, > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 11 07:30:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9BBUWIO028743 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:30:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BBTS76015112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:29:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BBTQpS010251; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:29:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.thibault.org [66.92.75.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BBTMpT010199 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:29:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by sergyar.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h9BBb4QG022987 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:37:04 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by sergyar.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:36:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F87E9B9.8010709@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:30:01 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fulling wool/lucet cord cording References: <20031011032140.71452.qmail@web12004.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031011032140.71452.qmail@web12004.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cascio Michael wrote: > If I run the wool through > the washer/dryer once it will thicken and shrink. If > I do this more than once the shrinking and thickening > will continue? It will get to one point and then stop. You can measure the width and length of your fabric after each iteration and then you'll have an idea of how much more you can expect. For example, a blanket I did, it shrank 6" in one direction after the first cycle, and then only 1" on that same direction the next time. I decided it was likely not going to shrink much on a third time, so I stopped there. > I do plan on doing samples first as > this wool seems to fray more than the other coating > weight wools I have on hand. Would the addition of > the camel's hair be the difference? I would expect it was the weave, more likely. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent These geeks used to be called Trekkies, but now insist on the less derogatory term Trekkers, which is the image control equivalent of adding a koala bear to the Nazi flag. -- Seanbaby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 11 09:49:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9BDn6IO029099 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 09:49:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BDm476020601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:48:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BDm04m004978; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:48:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BDlu4m004960 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:47:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-40-252.jps.net ([209.165.40.252] helo=pavilion) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A8K67-0004Hn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 06:47:55 -0700 Message-ID: <002201c38ffe$d411b020$fc28a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: ILLing EEBO Books - Re: [h-cost] Copyright yet again - A learning Experience Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 06:51:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Regina, I think the next thing to investigate is whether one can obtain EEBO via an interlibrary loan. For those who aren't aware of the EEBO service, these books are mirco filmed images of the original books translated into pdf files.. No added footnotes, title pages, editorial comments, layout changes, translations, illustrations or bibliographies and you compile the choice of downloads yourself when you save and burn to your CD. They offer pure unadultrated copies of the books with no fancy digital cleanups either, and around 100,000 to choose from. I was just astounded at the investment made to this project and how risky it could possible be for them. I still am, but I'm really greatful that the project is up and running anyway. I think it is very important not to assume the worst about someone who is simply observing loopholes in systems as if some scheme is about to hatch. That's not always the case and it diverts the subject of copyright into something entirely different. Long life the EEBO!! Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 1:05 AM Subject: [h-cost] Copyright yet again - A learning Experience > I disagree that we should drop this line, or that we should throttle it at > birth as it comes up every few months. H-Costume has a constantly changing > group of readers. Just because some of us have seen this discussion again > and again doesn't mean that the 50 or so new people who have joined the > group since the last iteration have. We need to keep educating people. > > Yes, I understand they could read it all in the archives, the truth is that > they won't. I think a better idea is that copyright issues should be > plainly marked in the Subject line, and for all but the digest users, a > liberal use of the delete button will solve the problem of unwanted posts. > > Personally I learn things every time it comes up and I've been a subscriber > for several years. If Lisa hadn't posted about EEBO I wouldn't have known > about it at all and I might be able to use it in a limited way. (Horrors! > What a thought. Actual use of the scholarship that is locked up out there > by the great unwashed public, unblessed by the academic priesthood! Next > they will be putting computers in the hands of Users!) > > Regina Romsey > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > > Behalf Of Sue Clemenger > > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 5:35 AM > > To: Historical Costume > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty > > inobtainingandsharingprimarycostumingsources > > > > > > Oh, yeah.... > > Can we please drop this line? This sort of futile wrangling seems to > > happen every time that copyright issues get brought up. And while I > > know the these issues are a very valid concern to researchers in general > > (let alone those of us who love historical costumes in one way or > > another), this discussion has obviously dissolved into some > > interpersonal crankiness. If the arguers feel the need to continue it, > > ad infinitum, could they please take it off-list at least? That way, it > > won't be clogging my inbox with stuff I have to just delete anyway. > > Thanks, > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 11 10:19:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9BEJOIO029155 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:19:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BEII76021707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:18:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BEIHXo017247; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:18:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BEIFXo017237 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:18:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.112]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68E082F8AD for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:22:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:18:13 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kid leather for binding corsets? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <28585.199.50.29.41.1065644334.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Saragrace, this is one of those "not very helpful" answers, but I know a lot of my classmates have gotten gorgeous leather hides in Napa. Much finer than anything you could get in a store. Perhaps searching for "leather" and "Napa county" would find you some good results. I'll ask them for names too, but it may be a while! .heather. On Wednesday, October 8, 2003, at 01:18 PM, Chiara wrote: > There is no single color, they all very in shades of light brown. I > guess > if you squint real hard it could be a gold yellow color. ;) > > Mine have never bled, why would they sell it for washing and buffing > cars > if it were dyed? That would defeat the purpose of cleaing the car to > get > dye on it from the wipe. > > Chiara > >> Were you able to get the chamois in its natural color...most of the >> ones >> I have seen are dyed a sort of golden brown which bleeds...? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 11 13:05:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9BH5aIO029776 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:05:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BH4Y76029524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:04:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BH4WqE000481; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:04:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BH4UqE000432 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:04:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m36.in-tch.com [216.166.191.36]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9BGhnH05783 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:43:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F8838A9.BBB688C4@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:06:49 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fulling wool?/cording patterns/Butterick Gone withtheWind pattern References: <001701c38f93$5ff48250$0201a8c0@kimathlon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mmmm...but is there a distinction between commercial woolens and commercial worsteds? I've noticed that the worsteds I've purchased are much smoother and un-fluffy (sort of a "well, duh", I know, since those are characteristics of worsteds). But they do fluff up some when I wash them in the machine (deliberately). I've noticed that when I purchased them, the bolt-ends usually indicated "dryclean only," I'm assuming to preserve the worsted characteristics? I realize I'm rambling , but I've recently gotten interested in things fibrous, as I'm learning to spin, and finding out all about the different processes you put wool through to make it a woolen or a worsted, not to mention preferred types of wool and all. Does anyone happen to know if modern commercial worsteds react to washing and fulling and dyeing and whatnot (procedures involving water) in the same ways that historical worsteds would have? --sue, who eventually wants to spin and weave her own yard goods for historical costume.... Kim Baird wrote: > > I think the difference is one of degree. > > Most commercial woolen cloth is fulled. That is, it has been treated to > fluff up the fabrics, shrink the weave and thicken the fabric. But this > is only done to a certain extent, to make a nicer fabric. You wouldn’t > want to use wool just off the loom for most applications. If you could > see wool fabric before and after fulling, you would find the "before" > wool unfamiliar, but the "after" wool would look normal, what you are > used to seeing. > > Felting, when it refers to woven woollens, is taking the same process > further, as far as it will go. The resulting fabric is thick and a bit > stiff. You probably can't even see the weave. It is more expensive > (think Austrian boiled wool jackets) because the wool doesn't go as far, > and the extra processing time and effort also add to the cost. > > Fulling and felting are not done with cotton, linen or other plant > fibers. They won't felt, the fibers are too smooth. If you look at wool > under a microscope, you will see it is scaly, like a fish. Heat, > pressure and agitation cause the little scales on the wool fibers to get > all stuck together, which is why you can make a fabric from wool by > simply felting. You don't have to spin and weave or knit it. It's not as > durable, but is thick and warm. > > Kim > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On Behalf Of Cynthia Virtue > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 7:01 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] fulling wool?/cording patterns/Butterick Gone with > theWind pattern > > Kim Baird wrote: > > If you want it to shrink, be heavier and tighter (also smaller!), > > machine wash in hot water with mild detergent, then machine dry. This > is > > called felting, not fulling. > > This must be one of those cases of a need for precision, because the > Online Webster's isn't particularly useful in figuring out the > difference; they're mostly synonymous. (See below.) > > Could you expand on the difference for us? > > Thanks, > cv > > Main Entry: full > Function: transitive verb > Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French fouler to trample under > foot, from Medieval Latin fullare to walk, trample, full, from Latin > fullo fuller > Date: 14th century > : to shrink and thicken (woolen cloth) by moistening, heating, and > pressing > > Main Entry: felt > Function: transitive verb > Date: 14th century > 1 : to make out of or cover with felt > 2 : to cause to adhere and mat together > 3 : to make into felt or a similar substance > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we > don't believe in it at all. > -- Noam Chomsky > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 11 13:17:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9BHHaIO029812 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:17:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BHFH76000174 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:15:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BHFFqE005614; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:15:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BHFCqF005536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-111.sonic.net [209.148.112.111]) (authenticated bits=0)h9BHF4XN010813 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:15:04 -0700 Message-ID: <3F883B37.5080209@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:17:43 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] EEBO and the British Manuscripts Project References: <200310101517.h9AFHoaw017334@jefferson.patriot.net><003701c38f65$b4545380$f339a5d1@pavilion> <3F871574.4020908@reddawn.net> <000a01c38f97$25834760$562fa5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <000a01c38f97$25834760$562fa5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >I mean, I scanned my copy of Stubbes and >it was a pain in the ass to do so yet some of these projects would add up to >hundreds and thousands of probably millions of pages, boring tedious work, >time consuming and expensive work > If you want a rough idea of what it cost them, search the net for people who sell scanning services and, if the text is not an image, for people who do proofreading. Some contractors post their hourly rates on their sites. This does not of course cover the costs of setting up and maintaining a database and a website, computer hardware and software, overhead, and so on. Fran ------------------------------------------ Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 11 14:20:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9BIKkIO030051 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:20:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BIJ376003257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:19:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BIJ1Kw005205; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.210]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BIIwKw005171 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:18:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem-2936.llama.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.135.187.120] helo=lance5) by cmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.14) id 1A8OKO-0004g7-Si for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:18:57 +0100 From: "Freyalyn Close-Hainsworth" To: Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:23:56 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200310111802.h9BI1wL1027528@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 646 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can anyone point me in the direction of fairly detailed information about fulling techniques in the Middle Ages? What period did fulling mills come into use? Was fabric 'wauked' before mills came into use? Anything else? Many thanks Freyalyn "If you're gonna ask someone to save the world, make sure they like it the way it is". (XC, 2002) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 11 14:43:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9BIhPIO030127 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:43:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BIgU76004166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:42:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BIgQKw015970; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:42:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net (scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BIgNKw015943 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:42:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net ([10.116.0.122]) by scanmail2.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:38:13 -0700 Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122] by scanmail2.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id AE1535050116; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:38:13 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (24-117-44-29.cpe.cableone.net [24.117.44.29]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:38:12 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] fulling wool/lucet cord cording Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:42:33 -0500 Message-ID: <000c01c39027$6f9d2600$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <20031011032140.71452.qmail@web12004.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-117-44-29.cpe.cableone.net [24.117.44.29] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Okay I think I see the difference. I'm used to thinking of felting as matting the fibers together without weaving them first. If I run the wool through the washer/dryer once it will thicken and shrink. If I do this more than once the shrinking and thickening will continue? **************** Probably. Give it a try. I do plan on doing samples first as this wool seems to fray more than the other coating weight wools I have on hand. Would the addition of the camel's hair be the difference ************************ I know different types of wool (from different sheep) felt differently. Some work better than others, I assume because some wools are smoother, some are scalier. If camel's hair is actually HAIR, it won't felt at all. All you can do is try washing and see what happens. Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 11 14:44:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9BIiNIO030134 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:44:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BIgh76004183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:42:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BIggKw016130; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:42:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BIgRKw015975 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:42:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7becb.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.203]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3E2FE26295B for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 20:42:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c39027$865138a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200310110446.h9B4k4A01669@pop-5.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] More recommendations from Bjarne? Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 20:43:12 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Michelle. I looked for the word Jobelin in my dictionary, but it was not there. What is it? If you want to do satin stitch praktising, then i suggest you use a close wowen fabric. Taffeta is ideal, or dupioni silk is also good. If you dont have that, then use a close wowen fabric, and a light coloured two. Then you have to use a frame two, you must keep your fabric tight. And start with some simple patterns first. Like the flower in the book from Royal School of Needlework. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michelle Plumb" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 6:47 AM Subject: [h-cost] More recommendations from Bjarne? > Thanks for the embroidery book suggestions, Bjarne. They arrived this week. > > I've also ordered some Eterna Silk floss, so that leaves one other item. > > What would you recommend as a good fabric for the beginner to work on? I > have tons of Jobelin from my mother's cross-stitching days, will that do? > > Thanks for all your advice, > Michelle > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 11 15:20:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9BJKpIO030321 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 15:20:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BJJg76005553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:19:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BJJe9Y003770; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:19:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BJIv9Y003482 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:18:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7becb.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.203]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id EFC8847FEEF for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 21:18:55 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001001c3902c$a142b490$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <009101c38fb5$8338dbe0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Du Barry VS Antoinette Films Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 21:19:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Penny, Nice topic this is very interresting. I must say i admire Adrian and his work, but as for accuracy in costume, there is two much theatrical / dramatical design in it. Two much Hollywood. But this was the case in all costume making those days. You must remember that they did not have all the books we have these days, where we can se the construktions. Madame Dubarry was Marie Antoinettes father in law's misstress. She hated Dubarry, and there was a cold war between them. It was the etikette for ladies of the court, never to speak to the queen, unless she had spoken to you first. And Marie Antoineetes, mouth was shot in quite a long time. The story ended in a chrisis, and the king, (louis XIV insisted Marie Antoinette, to speak to Dubarry) It was a great tragedy to Marie Antoinette, that she had to follow the kings order. The Affair of the necklace was one of the reasons, that the people hated the monarky. Marie Antoinette was taken to a trial at court for this, but she was innoscent. You can see more of this in the moovie Affair of the necklace. If you would like to read a good book about the time, then i warmly would recomend you to read Stefan Zweig's book Marie Antoinette. In my youth i swallowed this book, and i loved it so much, it really is exciting reading. Marie Antoinette was merried in 1770 to the future Louix XVI. She became queen in 1774. She was living a very innoscent life without any knoledge to the reality. France was starving and she spended a lot of money. She was known to live a very private life in her small castle Petite Trianon with a few friends. Every month there was presented pillows to her bedchamber with fabric samplers, and there was made a lot of dresses for her each month. More than 50 dresses each month for different occations. The lady who made her dresses became very popular as a designer, she was called minister of fashion, Rose Bertin. Under the revolution, when she was taken to the Temple, (prison) she organised an escape with her lover the swedish Count Fersen. They planed to escape with her husband the king, and their two children. But the carriage they made for this escape was much two extravagant and slow speeded, so the whole escape failed. They were caught in the city of Varennes. Marie Antoinette was groomed to be queen until the revolution, after this, she was made a simple citicen called Capet. She was taken to the guillotine in 1793. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 7:07 AM Subject: [h-cost] Du Barry VS Antoinette Films > I have been holding these questions for a long time now.... waiting for the > right moment to ask. Seems like we need a change of topic, so here they > are: > > Last spring I got to see the films Madame DuBarry and Marie Antoinette. I > do not know a lot about this time period but had lots of questions. > > 1. How historically factual are the films? > > 2. The films seem to overlap one another. Did these lives in reality? > > 3. Was Marie really framed for the jewelry or was that just Hollywood? > > 4. I know Marie was the costume designer, Adrian's, greatest accomplishment > as a designer. How accurate were the costumes? I really enjoyed the men's > costumes and the hairstyles of everyone. > > 5. Was Marie groomed to be a queen her whole life? > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 11 16:15:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9BKFkIO030484 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 16:15:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BKEQ76009026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:14:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BKEKfX000107; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:14:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop-8.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-8.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.26]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BKEIfX029950 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:14:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from there (d14-69-12-106.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.106.12]) h9BKEC703891 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 15:14:12 -0500 Message-Id: <200310112014.h9BKEC703891@pop-8.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Michelle Plumb To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] More recommendations from Bjarne? Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 16:15:17 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] References: <200310110446.h9B4k4A01669@pop-5.dnv.wideopenwest.com> <000701c39027$865138a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000701c39027$865138a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you very much, Bjarne! I have a lot of taffeta in my upstairs fabric stash. (Yes, there is a downstairs fabric stash, too.) There's the stash in the utlity room as well as the one under the bed, and then there's my yarn and spinning fibers..... Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 11 18:53:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9BMr9IO030931 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 18:53:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BMpn76015675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Oct 2003 16:51:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BMpliR013490; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 16:51:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9BMphiR013467 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 16:51:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14a59.directcon.net [207.215.72.59]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h9BMvj528936; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 15:57:45 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20031011155001.01232740@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 15:50:01 -0700 To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kid leather for binding corsets? In-Reply-To: References: <28585.199.50.29.41.1065644334.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:18 AM 10/11/2003 -0700, Heather Meadows wrote: >Saragrace, this is one of those "not very helpful" answers, but I know >a lot of my classmates have gotten gorgeous leather hides in Napa. >Much finer than anything you could get in a store. Perhaps searching >for "leather" and "Napa county" would find you some good results. I'll >ask them for names too, but it may be a while! > >That woud be the Hide and Leather House in Napa, California. I buy all my leather from them. They're now online, too, at www.hidehouse.com. Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 11 20:05:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9C05NIO031079 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 20:05:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9C04C76018397 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Oct 2003 18:04:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9C04AuH016560; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 18:04:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9C047uH016540 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 18:04:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A8TiQ-0000vH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 17:04:06 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Kid leather for binding corsets? Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 17:04:13 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01c39054$5f15e970$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031011155001.01232740@pop.directcon.net> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh thank you both! [Sg] Heather and Margo, Thank you both _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 00:17:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9C4HSIO031634 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 00:17:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9C4GW76000148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:16:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9C4GTJg001661; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:16:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9C4GOJg001628 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:16:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.112]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB9A12F8CD for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 21:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 21:16:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kid leather for binding corsets? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031011155001.01232740@pop.directcon.net> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oooh they're online! excellent. Thanks, Margo! I knew you'd know. On Saturday, October 11, 2003, at 03:50 PM, Margo Anderson wrote: > At 07:18 AM 10/11/2003 -0700, Heather Meadows wrote: >> Saragrace, this is one of those "not very helpful" answers, but I know >> a lot of my classmates have gotten gorgeous leather hides in Napa. >> Much finer than anything you could get in a store. Perhaps searching >> for "leather" and "Napa county" would find you some good results. >> I'll >> ask them for names too, but it may be a while! >> >> That woud be the Hide and Leather House in Napa, California. I buy >> all my > leather from them. They're now online, too, at www.hidehouse.com. > > Margo > > "One Tough Costumer" > > www.margospatterns.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 01:03:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9C53UIO031757 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 01:03:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9C52X76001828 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Oct 2003 23:02:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9C52VaI019809; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 23:02:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9C52SaI019784 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 23:02:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-12hc6te.cable.mindspring.com ([69.22.27.174] helo=earthlink.net) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A8YN9-0002rf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:02:27 -0700 Message-ID: <3F88E060.6030508@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 00:02:24 -0500 From: Charlene Charette User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fulling wool/lucet cord cording References: <20031011032140.71452.qmail@web12004.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031011032140.71452.qmail@web12004.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cascio Michael wrote: > lines would be great. I envision some non-slippery > matt finish cord or perhaps a narrow woven braid a > quarter inch wide or less. Would lucet cord work? > And what is lucet cord? How is it made? I know it is > supposed to be good for corset laces but I'm rather > vague on it other than that one reference. Here are some lucet links: http://kws.atlantia.sca.org/photos/lucet/lucet.html http://www.nwta.com/couriers/8-97/lucet.html There are a couple of books that show variations on the basic cord, but these two sites should get you started if you want to make lucetted cording. It's easy to make. --Charlene -- PEDIATRIC REFLECTION Many an infant that screams like a calliope Could be soothed by a little attention to its diope. --Ogden Nash, Hard Lines, 1931 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 09:13:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9CDDbIO014106 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 09:13:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CDBM76017213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 07:11:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CDBGCO008549; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 07:11:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CDBDCO008522 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 07:11:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fba.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.186]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 85ECC26288C for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:11:06 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004901c390c2$7c2b8d30$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200310110446.h9B4k4A01669@pop-5.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] More recommendations from Bjarne? Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:12:27 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I did answer this yesterday, but i did not receive my own answer, so i dont know if you got it. I looked up the word Jobelin in my dictionary, but there was not any words with that. If you would like to praktise with your stitchings in silk, i would recomend you to use another tight wowen fabric, either silk like taffeta or dupioni is also good. Then you should use a frame either a real one or just a hoop frame. Fabric for the use of cross stitches is not good. It is much two open a fabric to use for satin stitches. Hope this helps. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michelle Plumb" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 6:47 AM Subject: [h-cost] More recommendations from Bjarne? > Thanks for the embroidery book suggestions, Bjarne. They arrived this week. > > I've also ordered some Eterna Silk floss, so that leaves one other item. > > What would you recommend as a good fabric for the beginner to work on? I > have tons of Jobelin from my mother's cross-stitching days, will that do? > > Thanks for all your advice, > Michelle > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 09:15:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9CDFgIO014110 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 09:15:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CDF876017362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 07:15:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CDF7CO009769; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 07:15:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CDF5CO009761 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 07:15:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fba.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.186]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A3368262962 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:15:04 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <005f01c390c3$0a40b0a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <009101c38fb5$8338dbe0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Du Barry VS Antoinette Films Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:16:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Strange thing happening with my posts. I got this yesterday, but it came again today. I answered it yesterday evening, but i have not got my own respond, so here it goes again. Dear Penny, Nice topic this is very interresting. I must say i admire Adrian and his work, but as for accuracy in costume, there is two much theatrical / dramatical design in it. Two much Hollywood. But this was the case in all costume making those days. You must remember that they did not have all the books we have these days, where we can se the construktions. Madame Dubarry was Marie Antoinettes father in law's misstress. She hated Dubarry, and there was a cold war between them. It was the etikette for ladies of the court, never to speak to the queen, unless she had spoken to you first. And Marie Antoineetes, mouth was shot in quite a long time. The story ended in a chrisis, and the king, (louis XIV insisted Marie Antoinette, to speak to Dubarry) It was a great tragedy to Marie Antoinette, that she had to follow the kings order. The Affair of the necklace was one of the reasons, that the people hated the monarky. Marie Antoinette was taken to a trial at court for this, but she was innoscent. You can see more of this in the moovie Affair of the necklace. If you would like to read a good book about the time, then i warmly would recomend you to read Stefan Zweig's book Marie Antoinette. In my youth i swallowed this book, and i loved it so much, it really is exciting reading. Marie Antoinette was merried in 1770 to the future Louix XVI. She became queen in 1774. She was living a very innoscent life without any knoledge to the reality. France was starving and she spended a lot of money. She was known to live a very private life in her small castle Petite Trianon with a few friends. Every month there was presented pillows to her bedchamber with fabric samplers, and there was made a lot of dresses for her each month. More than 50 dresses each month for different occations. The lady who made her dresses became very popular as a designer, she was called minister of fashion, Rose Bertin. Under the revolution, when she was taken to the Temple, (prison) she organised an escape with her lover the swedish Count Fersen. They planed to escape with her husband the king, and their two children. But the carriage they made for this escape was much two extravagant and slow speeded, so the whole escape failed. They were caught in the city of Varennes. Marie Antoinette was groomed to be queen until the revolution, after this, she was made a simple citicen called Capet. She was taken to the guillotine in 1793. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 7:07 AM Subject: [h-cost] Du Barry VS Antoinette Films > I have been holding these questions for a long time now.... waiting for the > right moment to ask. Seems like we need a change of topic, so here they > are: > > Last spring I got to see the films Madame DuBarry and Marie Antoinette. I > do not know a lot about this time period but had lots of questions. > > 1. How historically factual are the films? > > 2. The films seem to overlap one another. Did these lives in reality? > > 3. Was Marie really framed for the jewelry or was that just Hollywood? > > 4. I know Marie was the costume designer, Adrian's, greatest accomplishment > as a designer. How accurate were the costumes? I really enjoyed the men's > costumes and the hairstyles of everyone. > > 5. Was Marie groomed to be a queen her whole life? > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 09:30:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9CDUMIO014145 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 09:30:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CDTN76017828 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 07:29:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CDTLCO014520; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 07:29:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9CDTJCO014484 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 07:29:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OhZopSOu6o1ZVR/Vqkd5tk4=">; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 06:28:25 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JCAWSUVJ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 06:28:25 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 06:27:52 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] More recommendations from Bjarne? Message-ID: <20031012.062753.1868.6.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-65 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think you mean Gobelin(e) stitches. Try that. Arlys On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:12:27 +0200 "Bjarne og Leif Drews" writes: > I did answer this yesterday, but i did not receive my own answer, so > i dont > know if you got it. > I looked up the word Jobelin in my dictionary, but there was not any > words > with that. > If you would like to praktise with your stitchings in silk, i would > recomend > you to use another tight wowen fabric, either silk like taffeta or > dupioni > is also good. > Then you should use a frame either a real one or just a hoop frame. > Fabric for the use of cross stitches is not good. It is much two > open a > fabric to use for satin stitches. > Hope this helps. > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michelle Plumb" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 6:47 AM > Subject: [h-cost] More recommendations from Bjarne? > > > > Thanks for the embroidery book suggestions, Bjarne. They arrived > this > week. > > > > I've also ordered some Eterna Silk floss, so that leaves one other > item. > > > > What would you recommend as a good fabric for the beginner to work > on? I > > have tons of Jobelin from my mother's cross-stitching days, will > that do? > > > > Thanks for all your advice, > > Michelle > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 11:00:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9CF0kIO014646 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:00:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CEwp76021807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 08:58:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CEwnZY018007; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 08:58:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CEwkZY017976 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 08:58:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22633 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:22:24 -0500 Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:22:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] KWCS attendees? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know that at least a few people on this list will be at the Known World Costume Symposium. I'll be there as a guest speaker (and probably pretty easy to spot -- I'll be one of two people not in costume at the ball, the other being Tawny Sherrill, the other guest speaker). It would be great if other h-cost people would put a red H on your name badge -- I'd love to meet some of you f2f. I'm giving two classes. My morning "feature" lecture on how the Victorians mucked up modern costume scholarship is not on the posted class grid, so it's easy to miss. My afternoon lecture covers the Gothic fitted dress and (as a bonus) the Greenland gowns. Hope to see some of you at the event... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 13:32:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9CHWYIO015295 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 13:32:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CHVL76027803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:31:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CHVGK8021298; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:31:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CHVEK8021279 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:31:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h9CHVDFp009018 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:31:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.196.68] (as3-4-82.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.68]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9CHV2JY008704 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:31:11 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 09:53:03 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kid leather for binding corsets? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 7:18 AM -0700 10/11/03, Heather Meadows wrote: >Saragrace, this is one of those "not very helpful" answers, but I >know a lot of my classmates have gotten gorgeous leather hides in >Napa. Much finer than anything you could get in a store. Perhaps >searching for "leather" and "Napa county" would find you some good >results. I'll ask them for names too, but it may be a while! Napa Hide and Leather 595 Monroe Napa, CA (zip?) (707) 255-6160 While they primarily cater to the wholesale trade (e.g., garment manufacturers), I've always found them quite happy to deal with random walk-in customers. They often have a "scrap bin" of off-cuts or lesser-grade leather sold by the pound at quite reasonable prices. (When I teach my "easy no-sew barbarian shoes" classes in the SCA, I can sometimes get class supplies there cheap enough that people can walk away from my class with a pair of shoes for $5, although that's the low end of the range and they don't always have suitable materials in the cheap bins.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 14:03:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9CI3iIO015388 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:03:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CI2m76029335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:02:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CI2kZf004468; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:02:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CI2iZf004448 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:02:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-59-002.jps.net ([209.165.59.2]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A8kYF-0002Wx-00; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:02:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20031010223932.49132.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031010223932.49132.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:00:47 -0700 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@net.indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Cording patterns/lucet cord X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 3:39 PM -0700 10/10/03, Cascio Michael wrote: >This has made me wonder about cording patterns? And >couching patterns? How old is couching or braided >cord as a trimming? Not gold or precious metals but >just cord or braided cordings, not necessarily tablet >weaving, just braiding. Any good websites or books? There are lots of pictures of clothing with couched cord trim from the 16th century if not earlier -- I'd say to look for Edwardian-style cording patterns in some of the many Victorian/Edwardian reprints. You may not find enlarged drawings labeled "cording pattern" but most of them aren't too hard to reproduce from a picture of finished clothing -- that's where most of my 16th-c. patterns come from. It's not an era I know anything about, but I think you"d be okay with lucet cord for Edwardian, and it really is easy to make. There are ways to make flat cording on a lucet as well as the round/square stuff. Unfortunately making one's own cording seems to be about the only way these days to get cording that isn't rayon, polyester or otherwise icky. (And some of the synthetic stuff snags easily, or gets ruined if you try to clean it.) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 14:03:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9CI3uIO015391 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:03:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CI3176029356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CI31Zf004556; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CI2jZf004452 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:02:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-59-002.jps.net ([209.165.59.2]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A8kYF-0002Wx-00; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:02:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20031010223932.49132.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031010223932.49132.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:00:47 -0700 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@net.indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Cording patterns/lucet cord X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 3:39 PM -0700 10/10/03, Cascio Michael wrote: >This has made me wonder about cording patterns? And >couching patterns? How old is couching or braided >cord as a trimming? Not gold or precious metals but >just cord or braided cordings, not necessarily tablet >weaving, just braiding. Any good websites or books? There are lots of pictures of clothing with couched cord trim from the 16th century if not earlier -- I'd say to look for Edwardian-style cording patterns in some of the many Victorian/Edwardian reprints. You may not find enlarged drawings labeled "cording pattern" but most of them aren't too hard to reproduce from a picture of finished clothing -- that's where most of my 16th-c. patterns come from. It's not an era I know anything about, but I think you"d be okay with lucet cord for Edwardian, and it really is easy to make. There are ways to make flat cording on a lucet as well as the round/square stuff. Unfortunately making one's own cording seems to be about the only way these days to get cording that isn't rayon, polyester or otherwise icky. (And some of the synthetic stuff snags easily, or gets ruined if you try to clean it.) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 16:37:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9CKbmIO017591 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:37:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CKag76006656 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:36:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CKaX4X011797; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:36:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41510.mail.yahoo.com (web41510.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9CKaU4X011748 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:36:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031012203625.34667.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 21:36:25 BST Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 21:36:25 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] EEBO To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <003701c38f65$b4545380$f339a5d1@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Lisa Sinervo wrote: > The EEBO stands for Early English Books Online and is a project that has > collected over 100,000 books from 1475-1600. No, that is incorrect. The fact is that it goes up to 1700. Nicole ===== Cap'n Cat of the good ship 'Harlot' http://www.kipar.org/society/author/pirates/ Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 16:45:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9CKjrIO017615 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:45:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CKir76007037 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:44:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CKiq4X015500; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:44:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41510.mail.yahoo.com (web41510.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9CKin4X015436 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:44:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031012204444.37339.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 21:44:44 BST Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 21:44:44 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty inobtainingandsharingprimarycostumingsources To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000801c38f27$fa70d160$8d28a5d1@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Lisa Sinervo wrote: > Well Nicole, I think you might notice that this email from me had a change > in style from the previous ones, not serious, and contains an end to the > story. These little clues give a pretty good indication that the subject > had reached its conclusion from my end. Well, Lisa, and I would appreciate it if you stopped being patronising. I do not suffer that gladly. Thank you. In fact, I am thoroughly put off. Nicole P.S. To actually give this - shockingly - an h-cost content, I went to a lovely wedding this weekend, everyone was in historical costume of all periods, the banquet was historical foods throgh the ages and all was held in a medieval barn. The bride's Victorian dress was stunning! (and I was still stitching on the bodice at 2 am... with her finishing it off at 7 am..no sleep for the bride) ===== Cap'n Cat of the good ship 'Harlot' http://www.kipar.org/society/author/pirates/ Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 17:03:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9CL3TIO017695 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:03:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CL2R76007876 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:02:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CL2QBX023249; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:02:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CL2MBX023224 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:02:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lynne-laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.86]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.comESMTP <20031012210221.OVWG12263.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@lynne-laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 22:02:21 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20031012215832.02409728@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 21:59:01 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-33141048; boundary="=======74B41E03=======" Subject: [h-cost] "Henry VIII" on TV tonight X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======74B41E03======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-33141048; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ok, so I watched the first episode of the new ITV drama, "Henry VIII." It took me about 20 minutes to work it out. Ernie Wise wrote this, didn't he? (For our US friends, Ernie Wise was half of a successful comedy duo, Morecambe and Wise. Every week, Ernie would write a 'play' and they would get a famous person to star in it. Peter Cushing, Diana Rigg, Glenda Jackson, all took part. The plays were universally awful, the history deliberately wrong, and played for laughs). This series has a gobsmacking series of great actors, all wasted, every one. Ray Winstone, as the King, couldn't quell his Cockney accent. Helena Bonham-Carter, as Anne Boleyn, looked wrong and was far too old. The history was wrong. As I had suspected, they took the popular view of Henry, and forgot that he was a highly intelligent, highly educated man. It was so hackneyed you could hear it creaking. The grammar was wrong. There were so many mistakes in the grammar that a good editor would probably die laughing. The costumes were appalling, the women wearing hair all over the place, dangling free (I think they felt that virgins had loose hair, but they didn't, not until about fifty years later. Hell, what's fifty years?) Some of the court were wearing that particular shade of blue that, in Tudor times, was reserved for servants, even Henry himself. Anyone else see this? Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE. VANESSA from Awe-Struck --=======74B41E03======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-33141048 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.525 / Virus Database: 322 - Release Date: 09/10/2003 --=======74B41E03======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======74B41E03=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 18:00:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9CM0OIO017930 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 18:00:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CLxM76010394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:59:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CLxH1j017577; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:59:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CLxC1k017495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:59:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 12690 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2003 21:59:10 -0000 Received: from dap-208-166-66-253.erie-tnt-1.pa.erie.net (HELO castlebooks) ([208.166.66.253]) (envelope-sender )SMTP for ; 12 Oct 2003 21:59:10 -0000 Message-ID: <006f01c3910c$163e1bb0$fd42a6d0@castlebooks> From: "Janet Davis" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200310092212.h99MCJaw016002@jefferson.patriot.net><002c01c38ebb$06865000$7f38a5d1@pavilion><3F85F9E4.9000203@lavoltapress.com> <000e01c38ec5$15580f60$5e29a5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty inobtainingandsharingprimarycostumingsources- was lawsuit over reselling ofcommercialpatterns Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:59:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran challenged Lisa on the subject of works in public domain to come up with an alternative. I think the answer to this is "Dover". Dover has for years published somewhat obscure out-of-copyright works at reasonable prices. The key here is "reasonable prices". This discussion started with the discovery of the EEBO, its great selection and its expensive price. If people could access the parts that interested them for a reasonable fee, none of us would have any interest in re-publishing the text for their friends or society at large. Several years ago, when Dover first started reprinting Norris' works, which had been out of print for a number of years, a number of costume people who had laboriously Xeroxed a copy from a friend or the library bought a nice new professionally published version, since it was easier to use and not expensive. Few, if any, of us on this list could afford $3000 for a subscription to the entire EEBO. Few of us would quibble at paying $10 to $30 for an individual article that we would find useful and the EEBO would be getting income that they are not getting now. Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http://www.medievalbookstore.com > That is a very good question that I have only recently been thinking about, > and I definetly think it needs to be addressed at a legislative level. Of > course socialism would solve the whole problem :) - > > But really, I don't know. How does one paid for the services provided by > someone putting infromation into circulation without depriving the public of > their rights to republish public domain material? > > > > > > > >I just think there should be some other way to protect people's > > >investment in making public domain material available than the flimsy > > >copyright/contracts that are in existence today. > > > > > > > What do you suggest as an alternative? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 18:44:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9CMiTIO018152 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 18:44:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CMha76012332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:43:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CMhY1j005647; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:43:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.thibault.org [66.92.75.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CMhU1k005580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:43:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by sergyar.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h9CMpJCj000951 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 18:51:19 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by sergyar.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 18:51:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F89D93C.5010406@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 18:44:12 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Henry VIII" on TV tonight References: <6.0.0.14.0.20031012215832.02409728@pop.ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.14.0.20031012215832.02409728@pop.ntlworld.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lynne Connolly wrote: > Some of the court were wearing that particular shade of blue that, in > Tudor times, was reserved for servants, even Henry himself. Didn't see it -- but could you describe the blue? I've long been idly curious which blue it was. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent These geeks used to be called Trekkies, but now insist on the less derogatory term Trekkers, which is the image control equivalent of adding a koala bear to the Nazi flag. -- Seanbaby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 19:21:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9CNLgIO018344 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:21:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CNJg76014719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:19:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CNJecC022698; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:19:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CNJccC022673 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:19:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lynne-laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.86]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.comESMTP <20031012231937.GDXU2637.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@lynne-laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 00:19:37 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20031013001916.02440eb0@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 00:19:32 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Henry VIII" on TV tonight In-Reply-To: <3F89D93C.5010406@thibault.org> References: <6.0.0.14.0.20031012215832.02409728@pop.ntlworld.com> <6.0.0.14.0.20031012215832.02409728@pop.ntlworld.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-5FB27E96; boundary="=======4F3A7679=======" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======4F3A7679======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-5FB27E96; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 23:44 12/10/2003 Cynthia Virtue said >Didn't see it -- but could you describe the blue? I've long been idly >curious which blue it was. You were lucky not to see it! A sort of cobalt, mid blue. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE. VANESSA from Awe-Struck --=======4F3A7679======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-5FB27E96 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.525 / Virus Database: 322 - Release Date: 09/10/2003 --=======4F3A7679======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======4F3A7679=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 19:53:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9CNrlIO018463 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:53:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CNqi76016388 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:52:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CNqecC007875; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:52:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9CNqbcC007851 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:52:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-33qtkfq.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.209.250] helo=pavilion) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A8q0q-0004yp-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:52:37 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01c3911c$7a3f81c0$fad1aec7@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Martha the patternmaker - Re: [h-cost] Re. sharing commercial patterns Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:56:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is really interesting Martha. How long have you been making commercial patterns for Simplicity? Are you responsible for any historic patterns? Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martha Kelly" To: Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 3:45 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re. sharing commercial patterns > May I put in a personal note about the commercial pattern companies. I > design for Simplicity. > > I really know very little about the business end of things at the company > because I'm a free-lancer and deal with them more as an outsider. But there > are a couple of things to consider. Many of the costume patterns are > designed by free-lancers who make a (meager) living on royalties. When > people share patterns, it's hard on us. Furthermore, if a certain number of > patterns don't sell each quarter, the design is pulled from the catalogue. > And that puts an end to our income from it. Unlike smaller companies that > can sell the same patterns for years and years, the Big Three have only so > many pages in the catalogue and only so many slots in the drawer at JoAnn's. > > The Big Three aren't as big as you think. Old and established, yes - but > you'd be surprised how few people man the fort and how hard they work. We're > not discussing General Motors here. > > Martha > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 20:59:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9D0xRIO018912 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:59:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D0vx76019603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 18:57:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D0vvt9006963; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 18:57:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D0vttA006912 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 18:57:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-131.sonic.net [209.148.112.131]) (authenticated bits=0)h9D0vms0009756 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:57:49 -0700 Message-ID: <3F89F92A.4000106@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 18:00:26 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty inobtainingandsharingprimarycostumingsources- was lawsuit over reselling ofcommercialpatterns References: <200310092212.h99MCJaw016002@jefferson.patriot.net><002c01c38ebb$06865000$7f38a5d1@pavilion><3F85F9E4.9000203@lavoltapress.com> <000e01c38ec5$15580f60$5e29a5d1@pavilion> <006f01c3910c$163e1bb0$fd42a6d0@castlebooks> In-Reply-To: <006f01c3910c$163e1bb0$fd42a6d0@castlebooks> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Janet Davis wrote: > I think the answer to this is "Dover". Dover has for >years published somewhat obscure out-of-copyright works at reasonable >prices. > Also, Dover publishes new books--anthologies of older material and new books by modern authors. >The key here is "reasonable prices". > Dover owns their own printing plant, which I suspect helps their printing costs a lot. They can also afford to print enormous runs, if they wish, and they have the distribution to sell those runs. (Most bookstores carry Dover books.) This helps because certain book costs are the same no matter how many copies are printed, which others (such as paper) vary with the number of copies. If you print a huge run the unit cost is lower, and therefore the book price can be lower. Provided you can sell that many books. Note, however, that in these things Dover is a very big business. No small or even midsize business can hope to match their costs or their distribution--therefore their prices. There is one other thing about Dover's prices. Dover tends to publish short books (ones with a low page count). Not all their books are short. But a lot of them are, enough for this to be a significant factor in their pricing and peoples' perceptions of "Dover prices." If you want to compare book prices, you need to compare books that are roughly the same in terms of: Trim size (there's more in an 8 1/2 by 11 inch book than a 6 by 9 inch book) Illustrated or nonillustrated book (one with only a handful of illustrations I'd count as nonillustrated for simplicity) If illustrated, are the illustrations color (which costs the most), or black and white? The books don't really need to be the same page count, because for this type of very rough estimation you can do arithmetic. Divide the book's cover price by the number of pages to get a per-page price. To compare this to another, non-Dover book, again, divide the price by the number of pages. I suspect Dover picks their projects carefully here. The content of some books dictates a high page count--a short book would not be as good of a book. Dover may well be consciously avoiding at least some big projects to keep prices down. >This discussion started with >the discovery of the EEBO, its great selection and its expensive price. > My understanding was that the EEBO price was paid by libraries, not individuals. If you access EEBO from a library, do you pay anything?. > If >people could access the parts that interested them for a reasonable fee, >none of us would have any interest in re-publishing the text for their >friends or society at large. > As a general rule, not specifiically related to EBO: Just because something is not available at a price you can afford, does not make it ethical or legal to take it. You won't get everything you want in life, nor do you "deserve" to. > >Several years ago, when Dover first started reprinting Norris' works, which >had been out of print for a number of years, a number of costume people who >had laboriously Xeroxed a copy from a friend or the library bought a nice >new professionally published version, since it was easier to use and not >expensive. > Actually, photocopying is not only a poor production method, it's expensive, significantly more expensive than offset printing. Before the Dover books came out I had old editions of Norris I bought used, BTW, which weren't horriby hard to find or afford. >Few, if any, of us on this list could afford $3000 for a >subscription to the entire EEBO. > I don't think EEBO even sells individual subscriptions, unless I missed something. > Few of us would quibble at paying $10 to >$30 for an individual article that we would find useful and the EEBO would >be getting income that they are not getting now. > If you want the EEBO to change their sales strategy to allow a different type of access, perhaps you could email them and suggest it?. Fran ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 21:06:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9D16oIO018928 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 21:06:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D15q76020017 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:05:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D15pt9010352; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:05:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D15mt9010335 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:05:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.118] (pm7-118.eos.net [205.133.149.118]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9D15iCN001808 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 21:05:45 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:58:09 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200310121732.h9CHVxK9021579@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: marie antoinette X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, Bjarne, for all that information about Marie Antoinette. Anyone interested in her being "groomed for being a queen" might enjoy the book "Crowned in a Far Country" by Princess Michael of Kent. It's a breezy little book about eight women who became queens of other countries (one of them Marie A.). It's not scholarly, but it's an enjoyable look at these women and the kind of lives they led. If I remember -- it's been a few years since I read it, but I just checked and it's still in print -- most of them were not much liked by their new countries. Many of them were very unhappy. I don't remember a lot of specifics about Marie Antoinette, but I do remember that she didn't like French food and ate a lot of bread and milk. And that, as Bjarne said, she led such an isolated life that she really didn't know what was going on in the rest of the country. Reading it will give you a very different idea of what royal life was like in the 1700s and 1800s, how a princess was raised, and what she could expect out of life. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 21:57:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9D1vdIO019048 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 21:57:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D1uX76022314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:56:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D1uVRs002307; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:56:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D1uTRs002206 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:56:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20031013015623016002rvvge>; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 01:56:24 +0000 Message-ID: <0d3a01c3912d$3f9cc3a0$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001c01c3911c$7a3f81c0$fad1aec7@pavilion> Subject: Re: Martha the patternmaker - Re: [h-cost] Re. sharing commercialpatterns Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:53:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am sure you did not mean to sound rude and I hope that Martha did not take it that way. But I have to agree with her as any other person on this list that has, like myself, ever worked at a serious fabric store. We all know that if a pattern does not get ordered enough we can expect it to get "pulled" and will never make a come back. And before you request my credentials, I worked for Hancock Fabrics for 2 years and was a manager trainee in Austin Texas. If nothing else I hope that freelancers like Martha can retain reprinting rights to their patterns as part of the deal so that once their patterns get pulled they can reprint them else where. At least for historical patterns, that would be a boon for most of us. :) Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 6:56 PM Subject: Martha the patternmaker - Re: [h-cost] Re. sharing commercialpatterns : This is really interesting Martha. How long have you been making commercial : patterns for Simplicity? Are you responsible for any historic patterns? : : Lisa Sinervo : : ----- Original Message ----- : From: "Martha Kelly" : To: : Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 3:45 PM : Subject: [h-cost] Re. sharing commercial patterns : : : > May I put in a personal note about the commercial pattern companies. I : > design for Simplicity. : > : > I really know very little about the business end of things at the company : > because I'm a free-lancer and deal with them more as an outsider. But : there : > are a couple of things to consider. Many of the costume patterns are : > designed by free-lancers who make a (meager) living on royalties. When : > people share patterns, it's hard on us. Furthermore, if a certain number : of : > patterns don't sell each quarter, the design is pulled from the catalogue. : > And that puts an end to our income from it. Unlike smaller companies that : > can sell the same patterns for years and years, the Big Three have only so : > many pages in the catalogue and only so many slots in the drawer at : JoAnn's. : > : > The Big Three aren't as big as you think. Old and established, yes - but : > you'd be surprised how few people man the fort and how hard they work. : We're : > not discussing General Motors here. : > : > Martha : > : > : > : > : > _______________________________________________ : > h-costume mailing list : > h-costume@mail.indra.com : > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume : > : : : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 22:20:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9D2K2IO019140 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 22:20:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D2Ix76023633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:19:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D2IvRs013112; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:18:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D2IsRs013069 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:18:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-52-187.jps.net ([209.165.52.187] helo=pavilion) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A8sIP-0003U9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:18:53 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01c39130$e9cd27e0$bb34a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001c01c3911c$7a3f81c0$fad1aec7@pavilion> <0d3a01c3912d$3f9cc3a0$31baee0c@c59303a> Subject: Wierd responses - Re: Martha the patternmaker - Re: [h-cost] Re. sharingcommercialpatterns Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:22:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well no, Chiara I didn't mean to be rude to Martha. And for the life of my I can't see how saying "This is really interesting Martha. How long have you been making commercial patterns for Simplicity? Are you responsible for any historic patterns?" could be construded as being rude at all. Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "chiara" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 6:53 PM Subject: Re: Martha the patternmaker - Re: [h-cost] Re. sharingcommercialpatterns > I am sure you did not mean to sound rude and I hope that Martha did not take > it that way. > > But I have to agree with her as any other person on this list that has, like > myself, ever worked at a serious fabric store. We all know that if a pattern > does not get ordered enough we can expect it to get "pulled" and will never > make a come back. > > And before you request my credentials, I worked for Hancock Fabrics for 2 > years and was a manager trainee in Austin Texas. > > If nothing else I hope that freelancers like Martha can retain reprinting > rights to their patterns as part of the deal so that once their patterns get > pulled they can reprint them else where. > > At least for historical patterns, that would be a boon for most of us. :) > > Chiara > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lisa Sinervo" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 6:56 PM > Subject: Martha the patternmaker - Re: [h-cost] Re. sharing > commercialpatterns > > > : This is really interesting Martha. How long have you been making > commercial > : patterns for Simplicity? Are you responsible for any historic patterns? > : > : Lisa Sinervo > : > : ----- Original Message ----- > : From: "Martha Kelly" > : To: > : Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 3:45 PM > : Subject: [h-cost] Re. sharing commercial patterns > : > : > : > May I put in a personal note about the commercial pattern companies. I > : > design for Simplicity. > : > > : > I really know very little about the business end of things at the > company > : > because I'm a free-lancer and deal with them more as an outsider. But > : there > : > are a couple of things to consider. Many of the costume patterns are > : > designed by free-lancers who make a (meager) living on royalties. When > : > people share patterns, it's hard on us. Furthermore, if a certain > number > : of > : > patterns don't sell each quarter, the design is pulled from the > catalogue. > : > And that puts an end to our income from it. Unlike smaller companies > that > : > can sell the same patterns for years and years, the Big Three have only > so > : > many pages in the catalogue and only so many slots in the drawer at > : JoAnn's. > : > > : > The Big Three aren't as big as you think. Old and established, yes - but > : > you'd be surprised how few people man the fort and how hard they work. > : We're > : > not discussing General Motors here. > : > > : > Martha > : > > : > > : > > : > > : > _______________________________________________ > : > h-costume mailing list > : > h-costume@mail.indra.com > : > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > : > > : > : > : _______________________________________________ > : h-costume mailing list > : h-costume@mail.indra.com > : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 22:32:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9D2WLIO019156 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 22:32:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D2VK76024410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:31:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D2VJRs018935; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:31:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D2VGRs018880 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:31:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <20031013023111012007002ce>; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 02:31:11 +0000 Message-ID: <0de701c39132$1be0de60$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001c01c3911c$7a3f81c0$fad1aec7@pavilion> <0d3a01c3912d$3f9cc3a0$31baee0c@c59303a> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 21:31:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Martha the patternmaker X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have to agree with her as any other person on this list that has, like myself, ever worked at a serious fabric store. We all know that if a pattern does not get ordered enough we can expect it to get "pulled" and will never make a come back. If nothing else I hope that freelancers like Martha can retain reprinting rights to their patterns as part of the deal so that once their patterns get pulled they can reprint them else where. At least for historical patterns, that would be a boon for most of us. :) Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 6:56 PM Subject: Martha the patternmaker - Re: [h-cost] Re. sharing commercialpatterns : This is really interesting Martha. How long have you been making commercial : patterns for Simplicity? Are you responsible for any historic patterns? : : Lisa Sinervo : : ----- Original Message ----- : From: "Martha Kelly" : To: : Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 3:45 PM : Subject: [h-cost] Re. sharing commercial patterns : : : > May I put in a personal note about the commercial pattern companies. I : > design for Simplicity. : > : > I really know very little about the business end of things at the company : > because I'm a free-lancer and deal with them more as an outsider. But : there : > are a couple of things to consider. Many of the costume patterns are : > designed by free-lancers who make a (meager) living on royalties. When : > people share patterns, it's hard on us. Furthermore, if a certain number : of : > patterns don't sell each quarter, the design is pulled from the catalogue. : > And that puts an end to our income from it. Unlike smaller companies that : > can sell the same patterns for years and years, the Big Three have only so : > many pages in the catalogue and only so many slots in the drawer at : JoAnn's. : > : > The Big Three aren't as big as you think. Old and established, yes - but : > you'd be surprised how few people man the fort and how hard they work. : We're : > not discussing General Motors here. : > : > Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 22:44:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9D2iNIO019186 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 22:44:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D2hJ76024991 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:43:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D2hHRs024126; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:43:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D2hERs024098 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:43:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-33qtk2o.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.208.88] helo=pavilion) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A8sfv-0006xJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:43:12 -0700 Message-ID: <002501c39134$4f1048a0$58d0aec7@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001c01c3911c$7a3f81c0$fad1aec7@pavilion><0d3a01c3912d$3f9cc3a0$31baee0c@c59303a> <0de701c39132$1be0de60$31baee0c@c59303a> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Martha the patternmaker Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:47:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was simply interested in Martha's work as a patternmaker, I was not doubting her view at all. Sometimes I wonder if people on this list put boxing gloves on before reading the incoming mail. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "chiara" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 7:31 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Martha the patternmaker > I have to agree with her as any other person on this list that has, like > myself, ever worked at a serious fabric store. We all know that if a pattern > does not get ordered enough we can expect it to get "pulled" and will never > make a come back. > > If nothing else I hope that freelancers like Martha can retain reprinting > rights to their patterns as part of the deal so that once their patterns get > pulled they can reprint them else where. > > At least for historical patterns, that would be a boon for most of us. :) > > Chiara > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lisa Sinervo" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 6:56 PM > Subject: Martha the patternmaker - Re: [h-cost] Re. sharing > commercialpatterns > > > : This is really interesting Martha. How long have you been making > commercial > : patterns for Simplicity? Are you responsible for any historic patterns? > : > : Lisa Sinervo > : > : ----- Original Message ----- > : From: "Martha Kelly" > : To: > : Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 3:45 PM > : Subject: [h-cost] Re. sharing commercial patterns > : > : > : > May I put in a personal note about the commercial pattern companies. I > : > design for Simplicity. > : > > : > I really know very little about the business end of things at the > company > : > because I'm a free-lancer and deal with them more as an outsider. But > : there > : > are a couple of things to consider. Many of the costume patterns are > : > designed by free-lancers who make a (meager) living on royalties. When > : > people share patterns, it's hard on us. Furthermore, if a certain > number > : of > : > patterns don't sell each quarter, the design is pulled from the > catalogue. > : > And that puts an end to our income from it. Unlike smaller companies > that > : > can sell the same patterns for years and years, the Big Three have only > so > : > many pages in the catalogue and only so many slots in the drawer at > : JoAnn's. > : > > : > The Big Three aren't as big as you think. Old and established, yes - but > : > you'd be surprised how few people man the fort and how hard they work. > : We're > : > not discussing General Motors here. > : > > : > Martha > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 23:12:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9D3C7IO019265 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 23:12:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D3Au76026234 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 21:10:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D3AqLK006287; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 21:10:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D3AoLK006273 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 21:10:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ar-008neomahp270.dialsprint.net ([63.178.237.200] helo=hppav.radiks.net) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A8t6f-0008Jf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 23:10:50 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20031012215754.01a80e08@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 22:02:05 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200310130219.h9D2JGRt013363@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] cleaning white kid gloves X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know I've seen suggestions on the list for this before, but it's been quite a while, so.... I've just acquired a pair of over-the-elbow length vintage white kid gloves. While they are in generally good condition (soft leather, no rips), they are quite dirty. Does anyone have a good method for cleaning these? I need to avoid shrinking them, as they just 'barely' fit now. I know they stretch a bit as you wear them, but would hate to spend time and effort cleaning them and then not be able to wear them. TIA, Sandy "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly-- Why They Are Simply Doomed." Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 12 23:29:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9D3T7IO019314 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 23:29:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D3S676026944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 21:28:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D3S4LK013530; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 21:28:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9D3S2LK013520 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 21:28:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 85235 invoked by uid 1005); 13 Oct 2003 03:27:47 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.261761 secs); 13 Oct 2003 03:27:47 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.261761 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 13 Oct 2003 03:27:46 -0000 Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 23:27:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] cleaning white kid gloves In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20031012215754.01a80e08@radiks.net> Message-ID: <20031012232616.S11460-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've heard that a good way to clean kid gloves is to put them on and wash your hands with a mild soap while wearing them. Then keep them on for a while as they dry. This keeps them from shrinking or stiffening too much. Note--I haven't tried this myself; just heard a friend mention it. Drea On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > I know I've seen suggestions on the list for this before, but it's been > quite a while, so.... > I've just acquired a pair of over-the-elbow length vintage white kid > gloves. While they are in generally good condition (soft leather, no > rips), they are quite dirty. Does anyone have a good method for cleaning > these? I need to avoid shrinking them, as they just 'barely' fit now. I > know they stretch a bit as you wear them, but would hate to spend time and > effort cleaning them and then not be able to wear them. > > TIA, > Sandy > > "Those Who Fail To Learn History > Are Doomed To Repeat It; > Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly-- > Why They Are Simply Doomed." > > Achemdro'hm > "The Illusion of Historical Fact" > -- C.Y. 4971 > > Andromeda > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 02:23:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9D6NNIO028231 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 02:23:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D6IR76004772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 00:18:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D6IOpl023312; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 00:18:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au (adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au [143.216.236.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D6IKpl023266 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 00:18:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h9D600RE014970 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:48:11 +0930 (CST)' Received: from sagemsbb006.saugov.sa.gov.au (sagemsbb006.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au [143.216.59.14])(8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h9D5bn7C006079 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:07:49 +0930 (CST)' Received: by sagemsbb006.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2654.89) id <4BNH1YK5>; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:07:38 +0930 Message-ID: <1016FD8698B3F14DB829819C6B856EC7598DDB@sagemsg0005.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au> From: "Tonkin, Rebecca (PIRSA-SARDI)" To: "'h-costume@mail.indra.com'" Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:04:04 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2654.89) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [h-cost] woolen worsted fulling felting X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi: Some information that may be helpful when working with wool. There are 2 major types of wool cloth - worsteds and woolens. Major characteristics: Worsteds - use longer wool (longer fibre length) - the wool is carded after washing, then combed to align the fibres - drawn into a thin strand, with fibres parallel - spun into strong thin yarn with a tighter twist - woven into materials for suits & dresses, like gabardine or crepe - material are lighter, springier, smooth to touch and the surface is not fuzzy - may have some fulling incorporated as part of the finishing process Woolens - use shorter fibres - carded only - drawn into a strand with fibres "as they come" - spun into a bulkier yarn with a soft twist - commonly used for knitted goods and carpets - material is coarser, the fibre ends protrude, the fabric is weaker and thicker than worsteds and the weave structure may be hidden by surface fibres Felt is made commercially from the short fibres combed out of worsteds - the noil. The noil is spread in thin layers (webs) and basically pounded together with heat, soap/detergent and agitation until the fibres are locked together in a tight mat. Fulling is like doing a little bit of felting - enough so that the fibres hook together a bit, and fraying is inhibited, but not enough that the weave loses it's structure. It also uses heat, soap/detergent, and agitation. Frequently there is some shrinking of the cloth as the fibres draw together. Usually after you have reached a certain point, the material stops fulling as all free fibres have become "locked" and the rest are firmly in the threads. Now, the degree to which fulling affects your fabric depends on what type it is. Worsteds like gabardine often do not change a lot - they become a bit softer, a bit fuzzier and may shrink a little. Woolens, on the other hand, shrink a lot more, and tend to become more like felt (depending on the original weave) as they have more loose ends to mat up, and often a looser structure to begin with. The worsted/woolen factor also affects the "comfort factor" - whether the fabric itches or not. Wool itches (this is separate from any allergy issues) when there are enough fibres of large enough diameter to prick into the skin and irritate the nerve endings. For most people, wool with more than 5% fibres over 30 microns in diameter will itch. (CSIRO Australia.) Worsted fabrics are frequently made from finer wools, and the tighter yarn spin and aligned fibres mean that there are less ends sticking out of the cloth to prick the skin. Woolens, with the non-aligned fibres and loose twist have a lot more ends sticking out, and more potential to irritate. This information all applies to modern wools, but may be helpful when deciding which of the modern types available would best suit your particular project. Rebecca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 03:53:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9D7rMIO027326 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 03:53:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D7qJ76007359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 01:52:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D7qHgW027254; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 01:52:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D7qFgW027230 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 01:52:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fc6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.198]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8FA612629A8 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:52:13 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c3915f$277251f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: marie antoinette Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:53:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. As an example i could tell you, that Marie Antoinette in all the years she spended in France, never came to the countryside. She only stayed in Paris and except for a few times, where she travelled to Fontainebleau. And then off cause when she tryed to escape. She played with washed lambs in Petite Trianon, and thoaght she was a real peassant. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 2:58 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: marie antoinette > > Thanks, Bjarne, for all that information about Marie Antoinette. > > Anyone interested in her being "groomed for being a queen" might enjoy the > book "Crowned in a Far Country" by Princess Michael of Kent. It's a breezy > little book about eight women who became queens of other countries (one of > them Marie A.). It's not scholarly, but it's an enjoyable look at these > women and the kind of lives they led. If I remember -- it's been a few years > since I read it, but I just checked and it's still in print -- most of them > were not much liked by their new countries. Many of them were very unhappy. > I don't remember a lot of specifics about Marie Antoinette, but I do > remember that she didn't like French food and ate a lot of bread and milk. > And that, as Bjarne said, she led such an isolated life that she really > didn't know what was going on in the rest of the country. Reading it will > give you a very different idea of what royal life was like in the 1700s and > 1800s, how a princess was raised, and what she could expect out of life. > > Gail Finke > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 04:41:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9D8fQIO011207 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 04:41:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D8eV76008580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 02:40:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D8eTIC012953; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 02:40:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D8ePIC012928 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 02:40:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h9D8fPA25463.; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:41:25 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:40:23 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:40:03 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Henry VIII" on TV tonight Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I saw it. I'd been intending to start a thread on this if no-one else did. I'd heard a critic say in a preliminary review on the radio that the King's London accent was rather obvious, so I was prepared for that. I'm not an expert on Tudor costume, but I thought Helena B-C looked ridiculous with all that hair flopping about - even when she wore a headdress, there was too much hair showing round her face. It was even worse than the headwear in "The other Boleyn girl" which we criticised a few months ago. As someone said, it's as though a leading lady can't be allowed to have all her hair hidden. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com 10/12/03 09:59pm >>> Ok, so I watched the first episode of the new ITV drama, "Henry VIII." It took me about 20 minutes to work it out. Ernie Wise wrote this, didn't he? (snip) Anyone else see this? Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE. VANESSA from Awe-Struck ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 05:32:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9D9WbIO026267 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 05:32:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D9UE76010533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 03:30:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D9UCYd027365; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 03:30:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta8-svc.business.ntl.com (mta8-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9D9U8Yd027347 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 03:30:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Imedia5043 ([80.1.4.118]) by mta8-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20031013093006.ZIZN21010.mta8-svc.business.ntl.com@Imedia5043> for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:30:06 +0100 Message-ID: <004c01c3916c$90a7fe10$76040150@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031012232616.S11460-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cleaning white kid gloves Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:29:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO you also need to add glycerine to the final rinsing water and when you take them off to try put them on a soft towel and every so often put them on gently and ease the leather this will stop them going hard. Being a glove maker and collector I've done this several times with no problems Dawn Ages Of Elegance makers of historical clothing, uniforms and bridalwear http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 > I've heard that a good way to clean kid gloves is to put them on and wash > your hands with a mild soap while wearing them. > > quite a while, so.... > > I've just acquired a pair of over-the-elbow length vintage white kid > > gloves. While they are in generally good condition (soft leather, no > > rips), they are quite dirty. Does anyone have a good method for cleaning > > these? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 08:02:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DC2kIO026540 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:02:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DC1f76015534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 06:01:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DC1afC024437; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 06:01:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DC1YfC024399 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 06:01:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fc6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.198]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D2BE9262AAA for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:01:31 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000601c39181$ff6bcf10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:03:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] toile tailleur X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello. I have a question. The cutting informations of the french weddingsuit of GustavIII recomends to use interlining in something called toile tailleur. I have no idea what that might be, but in swedish it is called vattulin. As i recall my schooldays where we had tailor education, i remember using some stuff of a mixture of wool and linen, very stiff fabric, we used for interlinning in coats and jackets. It was not an iron on stuff, but it had to be piquéed on. When i use this heavy rich duchesse satin for the suit, would it then really be nescesary to use this interlining? would it not be better to use an ordinary linen or perhaps cotton? Any suggestions are happily received. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 08:15:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DCFHIO026553 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:15:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DCEH76016178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 06:14:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DCEGfC029912; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 06:14:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41503.mail.yahoo.com (web41503.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9DCECfC029789 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 06:14:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031013121407.30215.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41503.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:14:07 BST Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:14:07 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] toile tailleur To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000601c39181$ff6bcf10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hello. > I have a question. The cutting informations of the french weddingsuit of > GustavIII recomends to use interlining in something called toile tailleur. I > have no idea what that might be, but in swedish it is called vattulin. > As i recall my schooldays where we had tailor education, i remember using > some stuff of a mixture of wool and linen, very stiff fabric, we used for > interlinning in coats and jackets. It was not an iron on stuff, but it had > to be piquéed on. > When i use this heavy rich duchesse satin for the suit, would it then really > be nescesary to use this interlining? > would it not be better to use an ordinary linen or perhaps cotton? > Any suggestions are happily received. personally I would use it, unless tacking it on poses too much of a problem for the silk. When I made Ben's 1700- uniform I interlined with the heavy linen canvas, despite using a superb, thick worsted wool that was so dense I had to hand sew with pliers to get the needle through. I think it makes a difference in the way it falls and wears. Nicole ===== Cap'n Cat of the good ship 'Harlot' http://www.kipar.org/society/author/pirates/ Email: nicole@kipar.org URL: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 09:28:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DDSGIO026755 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:28:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DDP17K018895 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:27:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DDE2eB025115; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DDE0eB025100 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host81-128-227-10.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([81.128.227.10] helo=dan) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #23) id 1A92WN-000087-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:13:59 +0100 Message-ID: <001101c3918b$f780c940$0ae38051@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:14:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, Having just taken a look at the web site for this exhibition at http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsites/1220_gothic/introduction.php I feel moved to offer sofa space to any h-coster able to beg, steal, borrow or generally liberate a plane ticket to London between now and January 18th when the exhibition ends. There are apparently objects never seen before outside private homes, and likely not to be seen again after the exhibition ends.... enjoy Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 09:34:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DDYMIO026778 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:34:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DDXL76019349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:33:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DDXKeB004129; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:33:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DDXGeB004104 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:33:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28187 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:56:57 -0500 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:56:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition In-Reply-To: <001101c3918b$f780c940$0ae38051@dan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Stevie Gamble wrote: > http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsites/1220_gothic/introduction.php > > I feel moved to offer sofa space to any h-coster able to beg, steal, > borrow or generally liberate a plane ticket to London between now and > January 18th when the exhibition ends. There are apparently objects > never seen before outside private homes, and likely not to be seen > again after the exhibition ends.... Sigh. I've been surfing this site for months. I know a few of the speakers at the conference portion of the program (which is sometime this month, might be over by now). I am jealous, jealous, jealous of anyone who can be there. There was a time when I could have just dropped everything and trotted off, but now with two kids, a traveling spouse, a business, and lecture trips, that's no longer possible. Sigh. Someone go and look well on my behalf, OK? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 09:34:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DDYWIO026781 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:34:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DDXV76019374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:33:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DDXUeB004221; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:33:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DDXOeB004162 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:33:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www23.ureach.com (www23.ureach.com [172.16.2.51]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09043 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:33:23 -0400 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by www23.ureach.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA32268; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:33:23 -0400 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:33:23 -0400 Message-Id: <200310131333.JAA32268@www23.ureach.com> Received: from [68.158.58.102] by www23.ureach.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:33:23 GMT To: "Martha Kelly" From: Teena Kessinger Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re. designing commercial patterns Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-vsuite-type: e X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I saw your first name was Martha and you worked with Simplicity, I wondered if you did the Martha McCain patterns. They are quite lovely. Didn't you also do the cotehardie and sideless surcoat? Or am I getting confused? Teena ---- On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Martha Kelly (marthakelly@nyc.rr.com) wrote: > Yes, I design historic patterns for Simplicity. My line is Martha McCain, > Fashion Historian. So far, it's all been mid-19th century women. I'm > working on men's things now. > > Somebody said something to the effect of "spare a tree, save the gas - share > a pattern." Was that you, Lisa? I wasn't offended. I was just putting out > a plea for "buy a pattern, save a designer." When I read discussions of The > Big Three, I get visions of a huge industrial complex with Wolf forms as far > as the eye can see. I wonder if people would be amused to know about all the > free-lancers at home burning the midnight oil. > > Chiara, I need you for my agent. I am such a lousy business person, I never > even thought of retaining reprinting rights to my designs. That seems like a > wonderful idea. Since my background is theatre, I guess I think of my work > as temporary. > > Martha > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 09:44:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DDiCIO026812 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:44:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DDgm76020039 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:42:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DDgleB009375; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:42:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DDgieB009355 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:42:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-50-167.jps.net ([209.165.50.167] helo=pavilion) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A92yB-0007GW-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 06:42:43 -0700 Message-ID: <000801c39190$7282d1c0$a732a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re. designing commercial patterns Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 06:46:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ooohh, I've got bunches of your patterns, and I don't even do that era. There just on my shelf to look at. Very nice! I was the one who mentioned saving trees on patterns, but it was out of the conversation that came from a group of professional custom clothiers who asked the president of McCalls if he really expected them to buy two patterns if sewing the same dress for two bridesmaids, because realistically, no one did that. It was not a sharing pattern question, just a may I use it twice question. The president of McCalls was there to promote his patterns, yes, to professional seamstresses even though the patterns probably say not for commercial purposes. These people weren't using them for complete ready to wear lines but for custom work and he wanted their business, the I'll look the other way if you use it twice was just another selling point to buy from McCalls. I'd really baulk myself at being told I had to buy a duplicate pattern if I wanted to make another garment for someone else if I owned the pattern already because of the waste, and because of my limited shelf space etc, but I would not be so adverse to going online and paying a small fee if they required me doing so. I wish CD's were like that too. A little program could run that would connect you online to a site where you could pay the creator for their work instantly if you wanted to share it with a friend. Do you plan on doing other eras too? I know your patterns have very nice reputation and are very popular, infact the best of the historic commerical patterns around for the price. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martha Kelly" To: Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 6:15 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re. designing commercial patterns > Yes, I design historic patterns for Simplicity. My line is Martha McCain, > Fashion Historian. So far, it's all been mid-19th century women. I'm > working on men's things now. > > Somebody said something to the effect of "spare a tree, save the gas - share > a pattern." Was that you, Lisa? I wasn't offended. I was just putting out > a plea for "buy a pattern, save a designer." When I read discussions of The > Big Three, I get visions of a huge industrial complex with Wolf forms as far > as the eye can see. I wonder if people would be amused to know about all the > free-lancers at home burning the midnight oil. > > Chiara, I need you for my agent. I am such a lousy business person, I never > even thought of retaining reprinting rights to my designs. That seems like a > wonderful idea. Since my background is theatre, I guess I think of my work > as temporary. > > Martha > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 09:51:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DDpKIO026832 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:51:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DDnv76020459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:49:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DDnteB012975; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:49:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DDnpeB012931 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:49:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www23.ureach.com (www23.ureach.com [172.16.2.51]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27831 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:49:51 -0400 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by www23.ureach.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA09445; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:49:51 -0400 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:49:51 -0400 Message-Id: <200310131349.JAA09445@www23.ureach.com> Received: from [68.158.58.102] by www23.ureach.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:49:51 GMT To: "Lisa Sinervo" From: Teena Kessinger Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Re: Martha the patternmaker Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-vsuite-type: e X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ---- On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Lisa Sinervo (Lisa-list@threadneedlest.com) wrote: > Sometimes I wonder if people on this list put > boxing gloves on before reading the incoming mail. > > Lisa Sinervo > www.thrednedlestrete.com As a mostly-lurker on this list, I have noticed on more than a few occasions that people get their heads bitten off by others on the list. It has happened to me once as well and is probably one of the reasons I don't post much. I think it is important to remember that we are all on this list for the same reason... To learn and share with others regarding our common interest of historic costume. We are of different nationalities, different socio-economic situations, and different levels of skill and success with regards to our mutual hobby. People come and go and something talked to death two years ago might be a completely new topic to many on this list now. I decide what I want to read and what I do not want to read based on the subject line. Perhaps it would be better to vote with your delete button rather than post something rude that makes the poster look bad and the reader feel bad. Just my 2 cents for what its worth. Teena P.S. I also didn't see what was rude about Lisa asking Martha how long she had been patterning and whether she was doing historics.... I wanted to know the same thing! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 10:06:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DE6YIO026871 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:06:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DE5C76022201 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:05:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DE5Ae4021229; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:05:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.224]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DE55e4021156 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:05:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Martha (24-90-83-116.nyc.rr.com [24.90.83.116]) with SMTP id h9DE53gu010163 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:05:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Martha Kelly" To: "h-costume" Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:05:23 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] re. designing commercial patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I saw your first name was Martha and you worked with Simplicity, I wondered if you did the Martha McCain patterns. They are quite lovely. Didn't you also do the cotehardie and sideless surcoat? Or am I getting confused? Teena Teena Thank you. Yes the medieval things were mine. They were meant to be costumes, pure and simple. They have been pulled because sales weren’t good enough to justify their catalogue space. I was sorry to see them go because I thought they were pretty. I meant for them to look like manuscript illuminations – somewhere between truth and fantasy. The model wore them well, I thought. We think they were too difficult (and took too much fabric) for “costumes” and were not authentic enough for reenactment. Do you have any other insight as to why they failed? Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 10:12:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DEC0IO026898 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:12:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DEB076022644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:11:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DEAwe4024759; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:10:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from solomon.io.com (solomon.io.com [199.170.88.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DEAte5024708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:10:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by solomon.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9DEBZ2Z010154 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:11:35 -0500 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h9DEBWfb020609 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:11:32 -0500 Received: from 199.50.29.41 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:11:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <10219.199.50.29.41.1066054292.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:11:32 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Martha the patternmaker From: "Chiara" To: In-Reply-To: <200310131349.JAA09445@www23.ureach.com> References: <200310131349.JAA09445@www23.ureach.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In this current economy we need to support each other I was commenting on her plight as a pattern maker and what she loses and how it is very real. Many on this list do not seem to believe that there are victims of pattern copying no matter how much the majority of us tell you that it is true. Respect the makers. Buy their patterns or offer them a job to make them for us if you have the resources. It helps us all out. That you all found offense in my defending her stance is taking away from her very real plight. I have worked for royalties before. You can lose your car, your house, your life, if you do not make enough when you have been told and budgeted in the financial amount promised from all the sources. Chiara > ---- On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Lisa Sinervo > (Lisa-list@threadneedlest.com) wrote: > >> Sometimes I wonder if people on this list put >> boxing gloves on before reading the incoming mail. >> >> Lisa Sinervo >> www.thrednedlestrete.com > > As a mostly-lurker on this list, I have noticed on more than a > few occasions that people get their heads bitten off by others > on the list. It has happened to me once as well and is probably > one of the reasons I don't post much. > > I think it is important to remember that we are all on this list > for the same reason... To learn and share with others regarding > our common interest of historic costume. We are of different > nationalities, different socio-economic situations, and > different levels of skill and success with regards to our mutual > hobby. People come and go and something talked to death two > years ago might be a completely new topic to many on this list > now. I decide what I want to read and what I do not want to read > based on the subject line. Perhaps it would be better to vote > with your delete button rather than post something rude that > makes the poster look bad and the reader feel bad. > > Just my 2 cents for what its worth. > > Teena > > P.S. I also didn't see what was rude about Lisa asking Martha > how long she had been patterning and whether she was doing > historics.... I wanted to know the same thing! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 10:21:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DELIIO027003 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:21:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DEIv76023156 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:18:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DEIse4029363; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:18:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DEIne4029310 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:18:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www20.ureach.com (www20.ureach.com [172.16.2.48]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04688 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:18:49 -0400 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by www20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA23211; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:18:49 -0400 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:18:49 -0400 Message-Id: <200310131418.KAA23211@www20.ureach.com> Received: from [68.158.58.102] by www20.ureach.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:18:49 GMT To: "Martha Kelly" From: Teena Kessinger Subject: Re: [h-cost] re. designing commercial patterns Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-vsuite-type: e X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am surprised that they did! They are selling now on ebay for quite a bit because they are out of print. I made my first sca dress from the pattern and I thought it was extremely easy to construct. The fullness was a little too much in the sides, but I fixed it by altering the gores. It is a shame that they were pulled because they were the best of the Medieval on the "big 3". The others just look like "Avalon", "LOTR" or Queen Amidala. If I had to guess, I would say it is because the medieval look isn't as mainstream as the renn faire look. Perhaps the model was too thin... she looked wonderful, but few of us are built like her and perhaps people thought it wouldn't look right on them. The reality, however, is that this pattern was very flattering to the figure. I have a tummy, but the way it flared minimized it. Teena who, like Lisa, owns many of the 19th cent patterns even though I don't sew them. ---- On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Martha Kelly (marthakelly@nyc.rr.com) wrote: > When I saw your first name was Martha and you worked with > Simplicity, I wondered if you did the Martha McCain patterns. > They are quite lovely. Didn't you also do the cotehardie and > sideless surcoat? Or am I getting confused? > > Teena > > > Teena > > Thank you. Yes the medieval things were mine. They were meant to be > costumes, pure and simple. They have been pulled because sales weren’t good > enough to justify their catalogue space. I was sorry to see them go because > I thought they were pretty. I meant for them to look like manuscript > illuminations – somewhere between truth and fantasy. The model wore them > well, I thought. > > We think they were too difficult (and took too much fabric) for “costumes” > and were not authentic enough for reenactment. Do you have any other > insight as to why they failed? > > Martha > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 10:25:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DEPnIO027009 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:25:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DEOD76023489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:24:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DEOBe4002975; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:24:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DEO9e4002945 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:24:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-33qtk1j.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.208.51] helo=pavilion) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A93cG-000303-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:24:09 -0700 Message-ID: <001d01c39196$3c12e8e0$33d0aec7@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200310131349.JAA09445@www23.ureach.com> <10219.199.50.29.41.1066054292.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Martha the patternmaker Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:28:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chiara, your comments seemed related to the thread you included which was my query about Martha's patterns and her career, not about your defense of her plight as to royalties which is perfectly understandable. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chiara" To: Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Martha the patternmaker > In this current economy we need to support each other > > I was commenting on her plight as a pattern maker and what she loses and > how it is very real. Many on this list do not seem to believe that there > are victims of pattern copying no matter how much the majority of us tell > you that it is true. > > Respect the makers. Buy their patterns or offer them a job to make them > for us if you have the resources. It helps us all out. > > That you all found offense in my defending her stance is taking away from > her very real plight. I have worked for royalties before. You can lose > your car, your house, your life, if you do not make enough when you have > been told and budgeted in the financial amount promised from all the > sources. > > Chiara > > > ---- On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Lisa Sinervo > > (Lisa-list@threadneedlest.com) wrote: > > > >> Sometimes I wonder if people on this list put > >> boxing gloves on before reading the incoming mail. > >> > >> Lisa Sinervo > >> www.thrednedlestrete.com > > > > As a mostly-lurker on this list, I have noticed on more than a > > few occasions that people get their heads bitten off by others > > on the list. It has happened to me once as well and is probably > > one of the reasons I don't post much. > > > > I think it is important to remember that we are all on this list > > for the same reason... To learn and share with others regarding > > our common interest of historic costume. We are of different > > nationalities, different socio-economic situations, and > > different levels of skill and success with regards to our mutual > > hobby. People come and go and something talked to death two > > years ago might be a completely new topic to many on this list > > now. I decide what I want to read and what I do not want to read > > based on the subject line. Perhaps it would be better to vote > > with your delete button rather than post something rude that > > makes the poster look bad and the reader feel bad. > > > > Just my 2 cents for what its worth. > > > > Teena > > > > P.S. I also didn't see what was rude about Lisa asking Martha > > how long she had been patterning and whether she was doing > > historics.... I wanted to know the same thing! > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 10:32:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DEWQIO027022 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:32:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DEVM76024138 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:31:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DEVLe4007864; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:31:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DEVIe4007831 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:31:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id JAA17618 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:31:15 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] "Henry VIII" on TV tonight Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:31:15 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <3F89D93C.5010406@thibault.org> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Has anyone heard when this might show on this side of the pond, so we Yanks might be able to see and critique the costumes? Nothing I like better than a historical flick, where I can talk back to the TV concerning historical accuracy visually and factually. BTW, was this a BBC production and is there a website? According to Amazon.uk, there is a new biog of Anne Boleyn scheduled for publication in 2004. No author given, though. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 10:35:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DEZMIO027036 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:35:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DEYY76024417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:34:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DEYXe4010034; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:34:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DEYTe4009999 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:34:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from karen (CPE-24-31-232-172.kc.rr.com [24.31.232.172]) h9DEYQhL019471 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:34:27 -0500 (CDT) From: "Talia" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] re. designing commercial patterns Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:33:33 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, from the standpoint of someone who does re-enactment I can say that I generally draft my own patterns. For me, it's easier to do so than to buy a pattern and refit it to myself since I'm an odd-sized person (over the average female height and way under the average weight). I can't remember the last time I bought a commercial pattern. Talia > We think they were too difficult (and took too much fabric) for “costumes” > and were not authentic enough for reenactment. Do you have any other > insight as to why they failed? > > Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 10:39:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DEdPIO027049 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:39:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DEcF76024682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:38:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DEcCe4012858; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:38:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DEc8e4012804 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:38:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fc6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.198]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D36A65EE33A for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:38:06 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000d01c39197$e1b7bc70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:40:00 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] toile tailleur X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Nicole. Thanks for your answer. It is incredible, i looked up the swedish word for it on google, and i found it. It says it was wowen of worsted with some horsehair. The hoursehair should stick to the fabric. Is this the same as you call buckram. As i understand buckram is ironed on? Anyway, i phoned my fabricshop, and they have it. And apropos the cutting. I understand now, why they had these fabric joints, it was because the fabric only meassured 57 cm. in the width. This will come in handy, as i would not have space on my embroidery frame, for a whole front jacket. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 11:01:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DF1FIO027102 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:01:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DExY76026429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:59:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DExVCu028434; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:59:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.thibault.org [66.92.75.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DExJCv028230 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:59:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by sergyar.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h9DF7BCj006769 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:07:11 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by sergyar.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:07:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F8ABDF0.1080903@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:00:00 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re. designing commercial patterns: Medieval Simplicity References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Martha Kelly wrote: > We think they were too difficult (and took too much fabric) for “costumes” > and were not authentic enough for reenactment. Do you have any other > insight as to why they failed? I bought both the dress pattern and the hat pattern, even though I didn't have any intention of making them anytime soon. I recommended them to people that wanted a pattern for something medieval -- with the gore change (change to 4 quarter-gores, one CF and CB as well as the sides.) I think what someone else said about the extremely thin model was accurate -- it probably scared off women who weren't so willowy. With a modern pattern for current clothing, you're used to seeing similar styles on many different sized women in real life, so it's not difficult to imagine how it would look on you, even if the model is a size 4 and you're a size 22. It's possible that the silk on the envelope picture also looked too expensive for the average costumer, but it sure was pretty. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent These geeks used to be called Trekkies, but now insist on the less derogatory term Trekkers, which is the image control equivalent of adding a koala bear to the Nazi flag. -- Seanbaby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 11:03:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DF3LIO027105 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:03:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DDF376018510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:15:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DDF3eB025590; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:15:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nycsmtp4out-eri0.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp4out-eri0.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DDExeB025548 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:15:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Martha (24-90-83-116.nyc.rr.com [24.90.83.116]) 1.0) with SMTP id h9DDEvd1004517 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:14:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:15:17 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] Re. designing commercial patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I design historic patterns for Simplicity. My line is Martha McCain, Fashion Historian. So far, it's all been mid-19th century women. I'm working on men's things now. Somebody said something to the effect of "spare a tree, save the gas - share a pattern." Was that you, Lisa? I wasn't offended. I was just putting out a plea for "buy a pattern, save a designer." When I read discussions of The Big Three, I get visions of a huge industrial complex with Wolf forms as far as the eye can see. I wonder if people would be amused to know about all the free-lancers at home burning the midnight oil. Chiara, I need you for my agent. I am such a lousy business person, I never even thought of retaining reprinting rights to my designs. That seems like a wonderful idea. Since my background is theatre, I guess I think of my work as temporary. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 11:38:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DFcLIO027323 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:38:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DFa776029385 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:36:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DFa3Cu025902; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:36:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DFZwCu025818 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:35:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lynne-laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.86]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.comESMTP <20031013153557.MYNQ12263.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@lynne-laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:35:57 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20031013161700.024aa510@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:24:42 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: RE: [h-cost] "Henry VIII" on TV tonight In-Reply-To: References: <3F89D93C.5010406@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-600D3BCA; boundary="=======4BAB4CD2=======" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======4BAB4CD2======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-600D3BCA; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 15:31 13/10/2003 Cindy Abel said >BTW, was this a BBC production and is there >a website? ITV, the same people who made the dreadful "Boudicca" with Alex Kingston. She did her best, poor dear! I've looked on the ITV site, but I can't find a site for it. Considering they spent 6 million on this tosh (pounds, not dollars!) it looks a bit fishy. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE. VANESSA from Awe-Struck --=======4BAB4CD2======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-600D3BCA Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.525 / Virus Database: 322 - Release Date: 09/10/2003 --=======4BAB4CD2======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======4BAB4CD2=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 11:49:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DFn5IO027344 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:49:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DFlM76000808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:47:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DFlJCu005004; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:47:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from berlinr.sprint.ca (berlinr.sprint.ca [209.5.194.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DFlECu004921 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:47:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shooie ([149.99.68.53]) by berlinr.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031013154713.VOGB3218.berlinr.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:47:13 -0400 Message-ID: <005b01c391a1$365973a0$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:46:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Subject: [h-cost] Test X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Testing, was having server issues the past week or two.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 11:49:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DFnkIO027350 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:49:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DFmI76000910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:48:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DFmHCu005812; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:48:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DFmDCu005772 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:48:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h9DFnEA26663.; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:49:14 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:48:12 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:48:06 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] toile tailleur Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 10/13/03 03:40pm >>> wrote: >It says it was wowen of worsted with some horsehair. >The hoursehair should stick to the fabric. >Is this the same as you call buckram. >As i understand buckram is ironed on? I don't think so, Bjarne. Buckram is canvas stiffened with glue, and is much older than iron-on fabrics. I made a stomacher this way a year or two ago, with advice from Drea and others, and it has been very successful. It would be too stiff for lining a gentleman's coat, though. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 11:51:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DFpYIO027353 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:51:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DFoU76001148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:50:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DFoTCu007747; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:50:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DFoPCu007683 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:50:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14a10.directcon.net [207.215.72.10]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h9DFuX528603; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:56:33 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20031013084840.00c481f0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:48:40 -0700 To: Historical Costume , From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] toile tailleur In-Reply-To: <000d01c39197$e1b7bc70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:40 PM 10/13/2003 +0200, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >It is incredible, i looked up the swedish word for it on google, and i found >it. It says it was wowen of worsted with some horsehair. >The hoursehair should stick to the fabric. >Is this the same as you call buckram. > No, this is "hair canvas". Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 11:51:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DFpvIO027356 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:51:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DFor76001206 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:50:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DFoqCu008055; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:50:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9DFohCu007852 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:50:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Oq6H7NJRcAg00Fe/9gwj/EY=">; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:50:17 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JCDRBB3S; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:50:17 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:47:59 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] toile tailleur Message-ID: <20031013.085006.1908.6.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO New word to me. :-) Explain, please? piquéed thanks, Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 11:56:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DFukIO027379 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:56:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DFsq76001606 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:54:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DFsmCu011131; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:54:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DFsjCu011021 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:54:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AAA5543A0088; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:54:13 -0500 Received: from DT2JBTC21 [12.218.245.117] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AAB524A0186; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:54:29 -0500 Message-ID: <00ae01c391a2$45dbd470$75f5da0c@DT2JBTC21> From: "Susan" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:54:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO De lurking to reply to this thread.. Now that is excitement for you. I'll be flying out Monday next to the UK for two weeks! I am almost besides myself at the exhibits that are now open while I'll be there. Not only the Gothic Art at the V& A but Pepys' London and 1920s: the decade that changed London at the Museum of London. http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/ The LOTR exhibition at the Science Museum http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/exhibitions/lordoftherings/default_flash.asp And well just everything! Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition > > On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Stevie Gamble wrote: > > > http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsites/1220_gothic/introduction.php > > > > I feel moved to offer sofa space to any h-coster able to beg, steal, > > borrow or generally liberate a plane ticket to London between now and > > January 18th when the exhibition ends. There are apparently objects > > never seen before outside private homes, and likely not to be seen > > again after the exhibition ends.... > > Sigh. I've been surfing this site for months. I know a few of the speakers > at the conference portion of the program (which is sometime this month, > might be over by now). I am jealous, jealous, jealous of anyone who can be > there. There was a time when I could have just dropped everything and > trotted off, but now with two kids, a traveling spouse, a business, and > lecture trips, that's no longer possible. Sigh. Someone go and look well > on my behalf, OK? > > --Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 12:03:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DG3tIO027411 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:03:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DFvj76001865 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:57:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DFvi8T013692; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:57:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DFvf8T013642 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:57:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])h9DFve2n004898 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:57:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031013115430.00baac00@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:57:43 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Buckram X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My mother always used Horsehair buckram - it wasn't "iron on" in the kilts she made. worked well. Mari, coming up for air briefly >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby > > >It says it was wowen of worsted with some horsehair. > >The hoursehair should stick to the fabric. > >Is this the same as you call buckram. > >As i understand buckram is ironed on? > >I don't think so, Bjarne. Buckram is canvas stiffened with glue, and is >much older than iron-on fabrics. I made a stomacher this way a year or >two ago, with advice from Drea and others, and it has been very >successful. It would be too stiff for lining a gentleman's coat, though Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 12:12:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DGCdIO027439 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:12:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DGAx76002994 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:10:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DGAs8T024544; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:10:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DGAn8T024443 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:10:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.143.1a1da1d8 (2612) for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:10:18 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <143.1a1da1d8.2cbc286a@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:10:18 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buckram To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What you may be looking for is called hair canvas. I thought it was goat, not horse, hair that was used, but I could be wrong. It is used as interfacing for modern tailoring. What may be causing the confusion is that interfacing in the 18th century was more like our modern buckram--it was sized linen. But the list is correct that modern buckram is too stiff to be a good substitute. Hair canvas in the U.S. is available both as a fusible and a sew-in product. I personally use hair canvas for early 19th century tailoring, but have not yet tried any 18th c. coats. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 12:41:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DGf8IO027496 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:41:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DGdT76005825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:39:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DGdNYM019674; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:39:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DGdLYM019631 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:39:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id LAA26029 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:39:20 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] "Henry VIII" on TV tonight/Boudicca Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:39:20 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.14.0.20031013161700.024aa510@pop.ntlworld.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the info/non-info on ITV. Well, not everything's on a website, though some production pics would've been nice. "Boudicca" was on Masterpiece Theatre on PBS stateside last night. As someone who grew up on those Hollywood epics where Yanks played the heroes in most of these movies and Brits played the Romans, I found it interesting that most of the "Romans" had the poshier accents mostly(at least it sounded so to this Yank)delivered in a rather effete manner the higher up the Roman social scale one was, unless you were a basically "good" character. And did the Emperor Claudius ever really set foot on British soil? Guess ITV couldn't snare Sir Derek Jacobi for a reprise of his "I, Claudius" role. The sets were also pretty interesting--Romans living in kind of modern industrial, cold grey palatte palaces(yeah, right!) where it looks like it was always overcast, in an atmosphere where the only emotional charger is the getting and keeping of power, while the Boudicca Brits apparently never bathed, and lived like hippies, only sans electricity and other modern conveniences, ate, drank and made merry when they weren't busy going to war with each other or the Romans. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 12:45:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DGjZIO027507 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:45:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DGfM76006008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:41:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DGfLYM021346; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:41:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DGfJYM021310 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:41:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host81-128-227-10.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([81.128.227.10] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #23) id 1A95l0-0001FS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:41:18 +0100 Message-ID: <003101c391a8$ed7c85c0$0ae38051@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000d01c39197$e1b7bc70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] toile tailleur Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:42:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne wrote: > As i understand buckram is ironed on? Yes and no:-) Traditional buckram, which is much used in upmarket and expensive curtain treatments as well as tailored clothing, can be ironed on provided it is well and truly soaked so that the glue spreads from the buckram itself to the fabric. The iron is used only in conjuction with a soaking wet ironing cloth, and buckram looks and behaves nothing like modern fusible interlinings. I do have some proper tailoring buckram which I bought years ago in the East End at a tailoring suppliers; how much do you need? For a garment this magnificent I can sacrifice some of my hoard... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 13:08:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DH8aIO027563 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:08:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DH6U76008367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:06:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DH6SBf013815; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:06:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DH6MBf013662 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:06:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F746425CE for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:09:37 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3F8ADBAF.1060606@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:06:55 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re. designing commercial patterns References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Martha Kelly wrote: > I thought they were pretty. I meant for them to look like manuscript > illuminations – somewhere between truth and fantasy. The model wore them > well, I thought. > > We think they were too difficult (and took too much fabric) for “costumes” > and were not authentic enough for reenactment. Do you have any other > insight as to why they failed? I think they were gorgeous! You're right about the patterns being difficult, or at least time consuming. The skirts had to be pieced from big squares (as I recall) and the length was just impractical to wear -- for fun or re-enactment. A lot of people who are trying to make these costumes really don't know how to alter patterns, even to remove length or take a seam in on the side for better fit. They're using a pattern because they need those step-by-step directions and they're very uncomfortable making changes. I would love to see more men's costumes available, the Victorian ones, or any era. I buy two of everything these days, one for cutting and one for keeping. The men's patterns don't seem to stick around very long, sadly. I noticed an awful lot of them went out of print this summer. Another thing I would like to see are notes on the costume. Something about whether it was meant to be historical, and if so what it was based on. I had no idea your medieval patterns were supposed to be fantasy-ish. That makes a big difference when I write a review of the pattern. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 13:15:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DHFBIO027576 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:15:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DHDh76009049 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:13:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DHDfBf020113; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:13:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9DHDbBf020064 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:13:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 27361 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2003 17:13:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ) (209.142.2.50) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 13 Oct 2003 17:13:36 -0000 Received: from 162.119.64.111 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <54568.162.119.64.111.1066065216.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] toile tailleur From: To: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031013084840.00c481f0@pop.directcon.net> References: <000d01c39197$e1b7bc70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3.0.6.32.20031013084840.00c481f0@pop.directcon.net> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.9) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > At 04:40 PM 10/13/2003 +0200, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > >>It is incredible, i looked up the swedish word for it on google, and i >> found it. It says it was wowen of worsted with some horsehair. >>The hoursehair should stick to the fabric. >>Is this the same as you call buckram. >> > No, this is "hair canvas". I agree with Margo. Hair canvas is what you are describing. I have also seen it called "Acro". It has 12% goat hair and the rest is nylon and wool or something like that. I have also seen it in the home decorating section of my local store and it is something like 72" wide. I use this stuff almost exclusively as an interlining. It adds body without much weight and I can make a bodice for myself sometimes without boning or a corset if the fit is right. Good luck with your search for it! Diana P.S. I know that Greenberg & Hammer in New York carries it but I couldn't find it at their online store. If you request a catalog, it is in the interfacings section. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 13:15:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DHFHIO027579 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:15:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DHDu76009073 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:13:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DHDuBf020405; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:13:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.224]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DHDdBf020088 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:13:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Martha (24-90-83-116.nyc.rr.com [24.90.83.116]) with SMTP id h9DHDcgu018200 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:13:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Martha Kelly" To: "h-costume" Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:13:58 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] Re. willowy models X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO May I seek your insight? A couple of you mentioned that the very slender model might be off-putting. This is something we discuss all the time in the costume/craft department. We get mail asking for larger sizes and designs suitable for larger women. When we make them, they don’t sell well enough to stay in the book. The only not-size-ten I ever made was a Civil War dress worn by a size 20 lady – a BEAUTIFUL size 20 lady! I thought that reenactors, with their interest in reality, would like to see a dress on a full figure and Simplicity agreed to give it a try. I had to totally re-think everything, even build as new dress form just for this outfit. It was a lot of work. I thought the model looked great – especially in the corset. And the pattern didn’t do well until we remade the dress in silk for a size ten. There’s a reason models are slim. People must want to see the dresses that way. It’s an on-going discussion. Any thoughts? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 13:20:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DHKDIO027593 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:20:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DHIh76009530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:18:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DHIbBf024595; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:18:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DHHwBf023951 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:17:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 16-172.tnt-3.harrisburg.supernet.com ([64.41.16.172] helo=[64.41.16.200]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A96KT-0005Zq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:17:58 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200310131333.h9DDXbeD004280@net.indra.com> References: <200310131333.h9DDXbeD004280@net.indra.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:17:50 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 649 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 7:33 AM -0600 10/13/03, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >I have to agree with her as any other person on this list that has, like >myself, ever worked at a serious fabric store. We all know that if a pattern >does not get ordered enough we can expect it to get "pulled" and will never >make a come back. > >If nothing else I hope that freelancers like Martha can retain reprinting >rights to their patterns as part of the deal so that once their patterns get >pulled they can reprint them else where. And that is why I trot off to Jo Ann's for the pattern sale and buy any I might want some day, 'cause they won't be there when I want them! Supporting 'our' local pattern makers Carol, who just found where they hid the cardboard pattern storage boxes.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 13:21:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DHL2IO027598 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:21:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DHJl76009659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:19:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DHJaBf025607; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:19:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DHJTBf025494 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:19:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.112]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4D942F8D2 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:23:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:19:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buckram Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <143.1a1da1d8.2cbc286a@aol.com> Message-Id: <5FA4E724-FDA1-11D7-9311-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ann -- do you use it for the entire coat? I was taught in my Tailoring classes (for modern pieces) to use it to support the shoulders and collar, but not the entire garment. Just curious what you do for 19th century! thanks .heather. On Monday, October 13, 2003, at 09:10 AM, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > What you may be looking for is called hair canvas. I thought it was > goat, > not horse, hair that was used, but I could be wrong. It is used as > interfacing > for modern tailoring. What may be causing the confusion is that > interfacing > in the 18th century was more like our modern buckram--it was sized > linen. But > the list is correct that modern buckram is too stiff to be a good > substitute. > Hair canvas in the U.S. is available both as a fusible and a sew-in > product. > I personally use hair canvas for early 19th century tailoring, but > have not > yet tried any 18th c. coats. > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 13:24:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DHOVIO027603 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:24:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DHNF76010060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:23:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DHNDBf028967; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:23:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DHN7Bf028859 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:23:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29714 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:46:47 -0500 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:46:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re. designing commercial patterns In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9DHN7Bf028859 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Martha Kelly wrote: > We think they were too difficult (and took too much fabric) for > “costumes” and were not authentic enough for reenactment. Do you have > any other insight as to why they failed? What you said makes a lot of sense -- it's likely that the non-reenactor audience didn't want something that elaborate, and the reenactor audience wanted something more authentic. I never worked with the patterns myself, but I know that there are several lists and sites that discuss and review historical patterns. And people who are considering buying them will often base their decision on a review like that -- so if the reviewer had a problem, the pattern won't sell as well. Perhaps a look over what the reviewers said will give you some clues on what to include and what to avoid next time. I know that the Greater Bay Area Costumer's Guild has a historic pattern review site; I'm sure someone here has the URL, or it might show up on a search. And you might want to check the archives of this list, or of the two SCA-Garb lists, or a list such as ageofthecotehardie for the medieval patterns. In the various archives, search on "Simplicity" and "pattern" and you'll probably find what you want. I would guess that your potential buyers in the SCA/re-enactment/renfaire crowd would be absolutely delighted to know that you're interested in what worked and what didn't. Even if you aren't aiming to make reenactment patterns, there are a lot of people who need a pattern to make their "first garb" or something outside their period of expertise. So people do discuss these patterns seriously, and they're frustrated when there are problems that would have been fixable If Only Someone Had Asked. If there are practical issues with the way the patterns worked, then you might be able to get some good insight from those discussions. One SCA-Garb list is here: http://list.uvm.edu/archives/sca-garb.html And the other is here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Garb/ (You'll probably have to join to read the archives, but that's easy.) AgeOfTheCotehardie used to be here, and many of the archives are here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ageofthecotehardie/ and then it moved here for further discussion after there were technical problems with the first group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aotc/ Again, you'll probably have to join those to read them. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 13:31:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DHVxIO027626 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:31:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DHUd76010834 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:30:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DHUZBf006103; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:30:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DHUUBf005916 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:30:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 340888 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:30:24 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:34:56 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re. willowy models From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9DHUUBf005916 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Martha, Since so many of us are not the norm in the reenactors world, it would really be helpful if they could have one photo on a willowy model and one on a 'sturdier' model (so both size 10s and 20s can see how the outfits will look on). I bought your lovely Simplicity medieval patterns but didn't make them because I had the same fear as has already been mentioned; what would it look like on my 5'2" size 20 frame? Would it accentuate or hide my belly? I now understand how difficult it is for you to have a model of our size, and I also realize that photo shoots tweak the way the dress will actually fit, even on a basic size 10, but it would sure be helpful to the majority of us... If it is as flattering as you say, I may make it for Halloween after all. Now, another question. I wonder if we can still request a discontinued pattern from Simplicity, as a couple of the ones I didn't purchase have gone away. Do we contact Simplicity? LynnD On 10/13/03 10:13 AM, "Martha Kelly" wrote: > May I seek your insight? > > A couple of you mentioned that the very slender model might be off-putting. > This is something we discuss all the time in the costume/craft department. > We get mail asking for larger sizes and designs suitable for larger women. > When we make them, they don’t sell well enough to stay in the book. > > The only not-size-ten I ever made was a Civil War dress worn by a size 20 > lady – a BEAUTIFUL size 20 lady! I thought that reenactors, with their > interest in reality, would like to see a dress on a full figure and > Simplicity agreed to give it a try. I had to totally re-think everything, > even build as new dress form just for this outfit. It was a lot of work. I > thought the model looked great – especially in the corset. And the pattern > didn’t do well until we remade the dress in silk for a size ten. > > There’s a reason models are slim. People must want to see the dresses that > way. It’s an on-going discussion. > > Any thoughts? > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 13:53:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DHreIO027660 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:53:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DHpg76012844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:51:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DHpdBf024379; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:51:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DHpUBf024163 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:51:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (bgp380694bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.16.142]) by webwarren.com (8.12.9/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9DHpLiD018731 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:51:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031013132644.10692a28@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:31:28 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] toile tailleur In-Reply-To: <200310131550.h9DFobCv007841@net.indra.com> References: <200310131550.h9DFobCv007841@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:48:40 -0700, Margo Anderson wrote: >At 04:40 PM 10/13/2003 +0200, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > >It is incredible, i looked up the swedish word for it on google, and i found > >it. It says it was wowen of worsted with some horsehair. > >The hoursehair should stick to the fabric. > >Is this the same as you call buckram. > > >No, this is "hair canvas". I've also heard it referred to as "horsehair" (but not the "horsehair" edging that looks like they wove nylon fishing line into a flat braid!), "horsehair interfacing", and "hair cloth". It produces a stiff line with less weight and thickness, and more flexibility, than buckram. In modern-day tailoring, it's responsible for nice, sharp creases and for properly-rolled lapels. I wouldn't consider making a modern-day lapel-collared or shawl-collared jacket without it. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 14:10:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DIAlIO027706 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:10:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DI8I76014915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:08:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DI7vL8008350; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (imo-m01.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DI7HL8007526 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:07:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1d8.12697040 (4468) for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:07:07 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1d8.12697040.2cbc43ca@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:07:06 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buckram To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/13/2003 1:20:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, alice@wonderland.com writes: do you use it for the entire coat? I was taught in my Tailoring classes (for modern pieces) to use it to support the shoulders and collar, but not the entire garment. Just curious what you do for 19th century! No, I don't use it for the entire coat. I do what I call traditional modern tailoring. I interface the collar (and use wool felt for the undercollar, if I can find it), lapel, and down the front at button and buttonhole area. I also build the chest piece as you do for a modern man's suit and do the partial interfacing in the upper back area. And because early 19th century coat sleeves appear puffy, instead of smoothly eased, I put a sleeve head of polyester fleece (purists used woven lambswool, but I haven't seen it for sale in years), similar to how I was taught for women's suit sleeves. I have also tried (horrors to those of you who insist on authenticity) strips of a fusible woven, not hair canvas, along the edges of the back vent and inside the lower hem for stability there. Unfortunately, I know of no good guides or patterns with good instructions for this period. And it is only slowly that I have seen a handful of surviving examples. So I have worked out my method by trial and error--some things work better than others, of course. I'll be embarking on my 4th tailored coat this fall. Fortunately, on this list I learned of a source for wool felt, and someone has offered me a stash of lambswool. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 14:13:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DIDeIO027711 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:13:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DICB76015444 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:12:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DICAL8012070; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:12:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DIC6L8011960 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:12:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1eb.113936a1 (4468) for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:11:51 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1eb.113936a1.2cbc44e6@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:11:50 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] re. designing commercial patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/13/2003 1:23:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, robin@shell.nightowl.net writes: there are a lot of people who need a pattern to make their "first garb" or something outside their period of expertise. I agree 100% that there is a real need for patterns. Many people that I know sew a little, but are not nearly skilled enough to make their own patterns, or even work from enlarged scale diagrams. But they want outfits, and there just aren't enough people around to make them. And unfortunately, sometimes the patterns produced by the small companies (as opposed to the "Big Three") have problems with grading to size, or the directions leave quite a bit to be desired. Now, I grant that almost anyone will have to do some kind of alteration to any commercial pattern, but if the sewer has experience with major commercial patterns, he or she can generally know what alterations will be necessary and can then proceed pretty smoothly. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 14:29:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DITiIO027746 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:29:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DIS376017190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:28:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DIRvL8025129; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:27:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DIRqL8024964 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:27:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84F05425CE for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:31:06 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3F8AEEC9.6000500@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:28:25 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re. willowy models References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Martha Kelly wrote: > May I seek your insight? > > A couple of you mentioned that the very slender model might be off-putting. > This is something we discuss all the time in the costume/craft department. > We get mail asking for larger sizes and designs suitable for larger women. > When we make them, they don’t sell well enough to stay in the book. I spent all day Sunday helping a girlfriend who wears a "22" get an outfit drafted and fitted. She is frustrated when trying to make clothing from patterns, because her 'size' doesn't fit. Consequently she shies away from buying lots of patterns because she is afraid of wasting time and money on a garment, even though she likes the design. She wants clothes that fit her, so she is trying to make her own and have that control over the fit, but when the patterns don't work she gets discouraged and gives up. We go to the fabric store and look at catalogues and she says "I like this blouse, but the last one of theirs I tried didn't fit in the bust and I never could get the sleeve right." So she doesn't buy. Speaking from my own experience as a size 10, I expect the commercial patterns to be too large for me. I nearly always have to take them in. The Victorian dress I am making now says on the envelope that I am a "14", but I knew it would be huge so I cut the size "10" instead. The slender model doesn't bother me. Seeing that the costume hangs like a sack on the model when it is supposed to be a fitted princess bodice is what bothers me, because I know at that point that the pattern is going to need serious alteration. Sometimes I feel that if I have to do that much alteration I might as well just draft my own in the first place. Fitting has to be done on almost everyone, but I think for us smaller sizes sometimes it's easier knowing all I have to do is take the seams in 1/4 " all the way around, rather than discovering the pattern is too small and I have to buy fabric all over again. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 14:30:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DIUoIO027752 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:30:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DITF76017332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:29:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DITEL8026244; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:29:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14001.mail.yahoo.com (web14001.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9DIT9L8026172 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:29:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031013182909.55102.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:29:09 BST Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:29:09 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] feedback on commercial pattern, was models.-Longish X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I buy every pattern that comes out in the historical series. Some I've never used, but I have them. I honestly couldn't tell you if the models were over size 10 unless it was very very obvious. I buy in the 14-20 size ranges so I'm definitely your target market for over size 10. I have patterns that I recommend to people and some I recommend not to buy. Simplicity's Historical series has been among the recommends and I do remember seeing the name Martha. To tell you the truth I've never used just one pattern to make a dress. I use pieces of several patterns to create the look I'm going for. Usually I'm copying a painting. Since until recently, I hosted a Clothier's Guild, sometimes we were trying for a 'look' for someone and one individual pattern didn't do it for them. Does that add to your perplexities? I don't know any demographics but I think pre-18th century is a larger market right now with the renfair/SCA types. If we have a good WBTS movie come out, then 1864 era clothing will probably become a more popular pattern. I've been tempted in that direction occasionally because we have friends involved with a 19th century historical park that we help out occasionally. So far it hasn't been frequently enough for me to warrant investing in a couple of outfits. I do hope this helps. --- Martha Kelly wrote: > May I seek your insight? > > A couple of you mentioned that the very slender > model might be off-putting. > This is something we discuss all the time in the > costume/craft department. > We get mail asking for larger sizes and designs > suitable for larger women. > When we make them, they don’t sell well enough to > stay in the book. ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 14:41:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DIfLIO027773 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:41:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DIdL76018615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:39:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DIdKL8006140; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:39:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DIdCL8005989 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:39:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])h9DId72n028086 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031013143403.00bc6b00@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:39:13 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart In-Reply-To: <20031013182909.55102.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] feedback on commercial pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all... It's only recently that I've started to make historical clothing for others. Until now I've only made historical clothing for myself. And in making for myself I always drafted my own patterns. With this new branch devleoping, I've tried a couple of patterns - and tried to help one lady rescue her project that went badly awry. Having dealt with different pattern companies sizing methods, pattern variations and the like, I've come to be firmly in the 'draft my own' category. Over the past months I've discovered it is definately worth my time to draft the pattern for each body... rather than try to sort out someone elses. Just my preference. Bridgette / Mari Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 14:43:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DIhBIO027778 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:43:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DIft76018882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:41:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DIfsL8008406; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:41:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14006.mail.yahoo.com (web14006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9DIfoL8008331 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:41:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031013184150.44851.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:41:50 BST Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:41:50 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] re. designing commercial patterns To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was sorry to see them go. I did recommend this one sideless surcoat pattern to many people because it was a good profile and fitted well in the top. It was easy enough to help people alter the length so that it didn't take quite so much fabric. It is one of my favorites for 14th century wear. A lot of people think sideless surcoats mean easy to wear shapeless sacks are aren't prepared for the amount of fabric it takes to make the 'melted candle' look. Yes the medieval things were mine. They > were meant to be > costumes, pure and simple. They have been pulled > because sales weren’t good > enough to justify their catalogue space. I was > sorry to see them go because > I thought they were pretty. I meant for them to look > like manuscript > illuminations – somewhere between truth and fantasy. > The model wore them > well, I thought. > > We think they were too difficult (and took too much > fabric) for “costumes” > and were not authentic enough for reenactment. Do > you have any other > insight as to why they failed? > > Martha > > ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 14:48:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DImbIO027805 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:48:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DIkV76019279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:46:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DIkQL8012466; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:46:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14008.mail.yahoo.com (web14008.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9DIkML8012415 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:46:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031013184621.86203.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:46:21 BST Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:46:21 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001101c3918b$f780c940$0ae38051@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Costume pattern wish list X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What I would like to see in a commercial pattern is an easier version of the women's fitted dress with tippets on the sleeves. Period Patterns is really too difficult for me to recommend to people who never sewn before. ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 15:09:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DJ91IO027847 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:09:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DJ6U76021247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:06:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DJ6P1g029908; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:06:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DJ6K1g029820 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:06:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail20.ureach.com (mail20.ureach.com [172.16.2.80]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA07949 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:06:19 -0400 Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-158-58-102.asm.bellsouth.net [68.158.58.102]) by mail20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA07945 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:06:19 -0400 Message-ID: <130a01c391bc$cb3b34c0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031013184150.44851.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re. designing commercial patterns Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:04:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The amount of fabric never bothered me. I love that "conspicuous consumption" of fabric look! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catalina Sanabria Rosado" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] re. designing commercial patterns > I was sorry to see them go. I did recommend this one > sideless surcoat pattern to many people because it was > a good profile and fitted well in the top. It was easy > enough to help people alter the length so that it > didn't take quite so much fabric. It is one of my > favorites for 14th century wear. A lot of people think > sideless surcoats mean easy to wear shapeless sacks > are aren't prepared for the amount of fabric it takes > to make the 'melted candle' look. > > > > > Yes the medieval things were mine. They > > were meant to be > > costumes, pure and simple. They have been pulled > > because sales weren't good > > enough to justify their catalogue space. I was > > sorry to see them go because > > I thought they were pretty. I meant for them to look > > like manuscript > > illuminations - somewhere between truth and fantasy. > > The model wore them > > well, I thought. > > > > We think they were too difficult (and took too much > > fabric) for "costumes" > > and were not authentic enough for reenactment. Do > > you have any other > > insight as to why they failed? > > > > Martha > > > > > > > ===== > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 15:22:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DJMqIO027894 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:22:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DJLF76022443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:21:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DJLA1g012801; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:21:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DJL51g012659 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:21:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.126.3266fcf2 (25914) for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:20:06 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <126.3266fcf2.2cbc54e5@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:20:05 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Wool Felt X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I hope list members can help me. I seem to remember a little while ago that someone gave a source for wool felt. My GOOGLE search today has just netted so-called wool felt that is only 20-35% wool, with the rest rayon. I'm looking for yardage available by mail of 100% wool felt. Thanks. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 15:50:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DJo8IO027984 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:50:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DJm876024766 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:48:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DJlv1g006261; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:47:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from spam13.cluster1.charter.net (spam13.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.213]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DJlq1g006137 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:47:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dewshine (cpe-24-196-247-126.spa.sc.charter.com [24.196.247.126])h9DJlYHu072737 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:47:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from muirgheal@charter.net) Message-ID: <002001c391c2$a6430980$6501a8c0@spa.sc.charter.com> From: "Manly Summerfield" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re. willowy models Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:46:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >May I seek your insight? A couple of you mentioned that the very slender model might be off-putting. This is something we discuss all the time in the costume/craft department. We get mail asking for larger sizes and designs suitable for larger women. >When we make them, they don't sell well enough to stay in the book. I have some thoughts, if a lurker (And a Scadian lurker at that) can speak up for a moment. My best friend is a clothing size 22. NONE of the patterns fit her but occasionally Ill buy a special large pattern and size it up. We are so used to patterns NOT coming in the larger sizes, honestly I dont look for them. I take it for granted they wont have it. I wish I HAD seen the pattern you are talking about, I would have posted it on several elists and bought atleast 2 copies. On the willowy models thing, Im a size 8. But I wear a simplicity size 14-16. I know that alot of beginning seamstresses I have worked with get frustrated early on by buying one pattern only to find otu they bought or cut the wrong size. That takes some getting used to. And as to what I would like to see, Id like to see a decent tudor, Id like to see more mens things. I buy every mans pattern that comes out whether I need it or not. I bought the "Henry the VIIIth" pattern but had such horrible times fitting it (sizing was just plain odd) that I wouldnt have recommended it to anyone. Id like to see some childrens things. Personally Martha, I know your name, I know the quality of your things and have bought several patterns due to your connection with them. I wish all of the costume patterns were of such quality. I guess they just need to clone you. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for the great discussion thus far. Muirgheal _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 15:57:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DJvtIO028000 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:57:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DJuB76025472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:56:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DJu49j013527; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:56:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DJts9j013323 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:55:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.141.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.141] helo=4gxif) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A98nI-00027W-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:55:52 -0400 Message-ID: <01a401c391c3$f54cb0c0$8df74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <126.3266fcf2.2cbc54e5@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wool Felt Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:55:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That was me- here's the link: http://www.weirdolls.com/fabrics/felt.html?source=overture But it looks like the sale they were having the last time is over... -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 16:00:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DK0MIO028023 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:00:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DJxA76025779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:59:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DJx99j016280; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:59:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DJx39j016125 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:59:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 341369 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:58:57 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:03:29 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wool Felt From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <126.3266fcf2.2cbc54e5@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ann, Hats by Leko has wool by the yard but it is aimed at the millinery trade and fairly expensive: http://www.hatsupply.com/ National Nonwovens has 100% wool but you have to special order it in 20 yard bolts. www.nationalnonwovens.com/ Try: http://www.achildsdream.com/handwork_supplies/felting_crafts/holland_wool_fe lt.htm Perhaps some interesting info from a company selling felted wool: http://www.moondancecolor.com/felted-felt.htm Good luck LynnD On 10/13/03 12:20 PM, "AnnBWass@aol.com" wrote: > I hope list members can help me. I seem to remember a little while ago that > someone gave a source for wool felt. My GOOGLE search today has just netted > so-called wool felt that is only 20-35% wool, with the rest rayon. I'm > looking > for yardage available by mail of 100% wool felt. > > Thanks. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 16:12:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DKCqIO028053 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:12:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DKA37o026825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:10:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DK6N9j023034; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:06:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from solomon.io.com (solomon.io.com [199.170.88.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DK6I9k022948 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:06:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by solomon.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9DK722Z014933 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:07:02 -0500 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h9DK6wfb015545 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:06:58 -0500 Received: from 199.50.29.41 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:06:58 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <17994.199.50.29.41.1066075618.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:06:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume pattern wish list From: "Chiara" To: In-Reply-To: <20031013184621.86203.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> References: <001101c3918b$f780c940$0ae38051@dan> <20031013184621.86203.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What I would like to see is a reprinting of all the accessories patterns they have in the archives in a short series. Gloves (you knew I would say this one *smile*) Purses belts hats slippers aprons beach acccessories picnic accessories Embroidery transfers This covers generally all periods that the commercial pattern companies have been in existance. What I propose they do is a walk through the decades and show case them as from the archives so that we know they are limited editions of precious items from our great grandmother's time. I am one of the many on this list that have original commercial patterns from those eras and would not for any reason open up the sealed packaging some of them are in for fear of losing them forever. I would love to be able to see them reprinted by the companies themselves. Especially the ones that started out in Europe before they ever started selling here prior to the wars. > What I would like to see in a commercial pattern is > an easier version of the women's fitted dress with > tippets on the sleeves. Period Patterns is really too > difficult for me to recommend to people who never sewn before. > > ===== > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 16:39:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DKd2IO028121 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:39:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DKbA76029434 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:37:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DKav9j019801; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:36:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [63.251.216.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DKak9j019638 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:36:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from megan2 (pcp793473pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [68.50.52.14]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD08015E03 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:56:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costume pattern wish list Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:31:36 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <17994.199.50.29.41.1066075618.squirrel@webmail.io.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think a Greenland gown and hood would be a nice thing, not too difficult for the average sewer. I just got a bunch of patterns from the National Museum of Denmark in Copenhagen, that covers several of the gowns, and is very nice. But not readily available to the US consumer. For the reenactors, that is. I don't think that many costumers would be interested. -Megan -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Chiara Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 4:07 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume pattern wish list What I would like to see is a reprinting of all the accessories patterns they have in the archives in a short series. Gloves (you knew I would say this one *smile*) Purses belts hats slippers aprons beach acccessories picnic accessories Embroidery transfers This covers generally all periods that the commercial pattern companies have been in existance. What I propose they do is a walk through the decades and show case them as from the archives so that we know they are limited editions of precious items from our great grandmother's time. I am one of the many on this list that have original commercial patterns from those eras and would not for any reason open up the sealed packaging some of them are in for fear of losing them forever. I would love to be able to see them reprinted by the companies themselves. Especially the ones that started out in Europe before they ever started selling here prior to the wars. > What I would like to see in a commercial pattern is > an easier version of the women's fitted dress with > tippets on the sleeves. Period Patterns is really too > difficult for me to recommend to people who never sewn before. > > ===== > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 17:04:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DL4MIO028216 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:04:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DL1O76001698 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:01:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DL1LOY010738; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:01:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DL1IOY010698 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:01:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id QAA11512 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:01:16 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:01:16 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <17994.199.50.29.41.1066075618.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] Henry VIII-2 pt ITV(British TV)production X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A check of Amazon.com.uk showed the Granada TV presentation as DVD(2 disc set) for the recent Henry VIII to be released shortly. For us on this side of the pond, Brit DVDs cannot be played successfully on US & Canadian players and visa-versa. For real Tudor enthusists wanting to pass on their love of history of this era to their preteen and early teen offspring the Brit "My Story" series(similar to the "Dear America" series in the U.S.)is publishing "Anne Boleyn and Me" in spring 2004. Have not yet found an author listing for the new Anne Boleyn biog Amazon.com.uk lists as publishing in 2004. Probably we must wait until or if PBS, A&E or History Channel pick it up. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 17:04:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DL4OIO028219 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:04:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DL3E76001892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:03:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DL3DOY012286; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:03:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DL38OY012233 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:03:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fozzie.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.218]) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A99qN-0002Dq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:03:07 -0700 Message-ID: <24807992.1066078987602.JavaMail.root@fozzie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:03:03 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Christine Krebs-Bonder To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re. willowy models Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't necessarily find the physical size of the models off-putting when looking for pattersn. But I do have problems with them always having long back waist measurements. As a very shortwaisted busty woman, I don't even bother buying many patterns because they look like they won't work for me without tons of alterations (if alterations can help at all). I do like the Italian Renn patterns since they can be easily adjusted for a short backwaist (or don't need to be adjusted at all) though I do raise the necklines a bit since I am not playing a courtesan. My latest project is putting together a corset and other underpinnings for a Civil War re-enactment group I'm working with. I am very happy to see that Simplicity is selling more than one corset pattern now, and that the one I just bought yesterday can be adjusted for different bust sizes. Christine in Dayton >^..^< _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 17:06:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DL6aIO028233 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:06:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DL4i76002011 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:04:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DL4hOY013528; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:04:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9DL4dOY013404 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:04:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCsU2p3KZuOBzTQb/w250ZjJcqv09VtitbQ==">; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:04:08 PDT Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JCEA9ZU3; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:04:08 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:02:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re. willowy models Message-ID: <20031013.160218.-603231.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-5,10-17,19-31 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I remember when the pick and white plaid dress was first shown (that is the one we are talking about. isn't it?) and there were several very favorable comments regarding how it was nice to see a larger lady wearing a costume dress and that she looked even better in it than the thinner model shown with her. I heartily agree! I have bought several copies of each of your patterns (and did I mention I'm thrilled to meet you, even if it's only electronically!) and have my own back stock. Every time I see that there's a new Martha McCain I run around to all my local JoAnn's and buy them up. I'm doing my best to keep your patterns in print. Karen On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:13:58 -0400 "Martha Kelly" writes: > The only not-size-ten I ever made was a Civil War dress worn by a > size 20 > lady – a BEAUTIFUL size 20 lady! I thought that reenactors, with > their > interest in reality, would like to see a dress on a full figure and > Simplicity agreed to give it a try. I had to totally re-think > everything, > even build as new dress form just for this outfit. It was a lot of > work. I > thought the model looked great – especially in the corset. And the > pattern > didn’t do well until we remade the dress in silk for a size ten. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 17:19:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DLJSIO028265 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:19:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DLHN76003033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:17:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DLHLOY023956; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:17:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DLHIOa023914 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:17:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMP004GRSGT1K@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:18:21 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re. willowy models In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031013135545.02fddb80@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9DLHIOa023914 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:13 PM 10/13/2003 -0400, you wrote: >May I seek your insight? You asked for it!! ;-) >A couple of you mentioned that the very slender model might be off-putting. >This is something we discuss all the time in the costume/craft department. >We get mail asking for larger sizes and designs suitable for larger women. >When we make them, they don’t sell well enough to stay in the book. As a larger, currently size 20 in RTW person, it has taken me some time, even years, to understand how I might look in comparison to the willowy models. Clothing just doesn't fit the same on me as it does on a size 10-12 (or smaller) person. The biggest complaint I have is that when patterns are sized up, they are sized up all over, and that is not what happens when you get bigger. I know we are different in shape too. I am a pear shape now, but when I was thinner (and younger) I was hourglass shaped. What I have done the past few years is buy a size 14-16 pattern, depending on company, and resize the sides for my larger breasts, waist and hips. At least this way, the pattern will fit better in my upper body/shoulder/neck area. But most people I know who sew from patterns don't even know how to adjust a pattern to fit them better. I know I didn't until I got into making costumes, that had to fit me tighter than modern clothes. >The only not-size-ten I ever made was a Civil War dress worn by a size 20 >lady ­ a BEAUTIFUL size 20 lady! I thought that reenactors, with their >interest in reality, would like to see a dress on a full figure and >Simplicity agreed to give it a try. I had to totally re-think everything, >even build as new dress form just for this outfit. It was a lot of work. I >thought the model looked great ­ especially in the corset. And the pattern >didn’t do well until we remade the dress in silk for a size ten. I am sorry I didn't see that pattern. I would have loved to see a larger woman modeling your garments. Personally, I decided to take the plunge on 1870s styles of clothing, because I saw them modeled by the Truely Victorian ladies, who are plus sized women and they look wonderful in these clothes! I still have reservations on the Civil War era styles, because of the old myths that only skinny women should wear such huge hoops. It wasn't until I understood the reasons why the large hoops (to make whatever waist look smaller in comparison), and that they need to be proportioned to my larger size in order to look right. So I bought the Martha McCain line of patterns, but with the belief that I may have to resize them proportionately to fit me properly. >There’s a reason models are slim. People must want to see the dresses that >way. It’s an on-going discussion. > >Any thoughts? The reason I think (and it is my opinion and not to cause a stir) that people want to see the dresses on slimmer women, is because that is what we are used to seeing from all the media we see daily. I am an overweight woman, who makes my own patterns and costumes to fit me properly, but do I want to see something I wear modeled on an overweight woman? Truthfully, no I don't. Why? Because my eyes/brain just don't want to look at an overweight woman because it reminds me that I am overweight myself. Is that dumb? Yes!! But it is the truth. We are mentally trained to look at waif thin models, and to look at people other than that becomes painful. And while I don't like that perspective, I have to acknowledge that it exists in me. Until we change how media portrays women on a daily basis, where we become comfortable with how we look ourselves, many of us, myself included, will want to buy into the fantasy of "thin is in." Personally, I am trying to adjust that to "Healthy is In", meaning whatever weight is healthy for us to be. But that is my personal battle and may not apply to anyone else. And may I ask if you have an exclusive contract with Simplicity? The reason I ask is have you thought of designing and marketing your own historical costumes, where you have full rights to do as you please, much as Margo and Kass have done? I know it is hard work, but you would have full control of what you do, what you keep and all. You might then be able to license your pattern line to Simplicity as well. Personally, I think you have a good following, as people know your line and now we know you. Just a thought. And thanks for making re-enactors costumes. I got tired of only finding the fantasy types that skimps on the fabric used. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 17:19:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DLJfIO028268 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:19:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DLIH76003149 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:18:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DLIGOY024726; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:18:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DLHkOY024177 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:17:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Sopwith900@cs.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.120.25eab528 (4214) for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:15:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Sopwith900@cs.com Message-ID: <120.25eab528.2cbc7006@cs.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:15:50 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 8001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Boudicca X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I knew this one was going to be a little grating to watch, especially with some of the language abuse -- "If you're not going to play ball with us (Romans)..." -- YIKES! I suppose the good that came from this is that I'm rummaging the bookshelf this evening to find and reread the relevant chapters of A. Fraser's The Warrior Queens to help settle my stomach. Could anyone on the list please recommend further reading? Thanks! Linda Bolla _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 17:20:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DLKYIO028274 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:20:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DLHp76003077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:17:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DLHoOY024310; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:17:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DLHIOY023914 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:17:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMP004GRSGT1K@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:17:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:39:07 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re. designing commercial patterns In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031013133400.00b08660@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:15 AM 10/13/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Yes, I design historic patterns for Simplicity. My line is Martha McCain, >Fashion Historian. So far, it's all been mid-19th century women. I'm >working on men's things now. Oh, wow. Well, I have supported you rather well then. I have bought almost all the patterns of that line. :-) I very much like them. And I have heard great reviews of them from Linda at Farthingales, when she talked about steels at Costume College. I just can't wait till next summer when I get to wear them, as I will be making them up next spring (winter for Ren clothes). I can't wait to see the men's line. My dh very much wants something Victorian for him to wear. Not to mention our guild will also be doing Victorian events, and the ladies are looking to see what sort of patterns are out there to use. :-) Ok, I am sounding like a fan-goob. But I like what I have seen so far, and can't wait to get started in them. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 17:34:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DLYNIO028323 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:34:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DLVk76004285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:31:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DLVjOY006151; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:31:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m3.nyc.untd.com (m3.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9DLUuOY005716 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:30:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"MW/ewWa+Q2FG65sHxVDc3ebpjrorVA+vj7CO3pZINn19xjhKTWST7Q==">; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:30:04 PDT Received: (from btana@juno.com) by m3.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JCECRH2L; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:30:04 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:22:17 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re. willowy models Message-ID: <20031013.153054.1456.3.btana@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-6,7-11,13,15,17-20,29-30,32-34,36,38,40-48,57,65,70,73-76,78-81,82-32767 From: btana@juno.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:13:58 -0400 "Martha Kelly" writes: > May I seek your insight? > > A couple of you mentioned that the very slender model might be off-putting. > This is something we discuss all the time in the costume/craft department. > We get mail asking for larger sizes and designs suitable for larger women. > When we make them, they don’t sell well enough to stay in the book. > One thing that would probably help, and I don't know if it's being done yet or not, but the industry itself needs to come up with a universal sizing system. Basically, Simplicity, Butterick, Vogue, McCalls ALL use the same system (I know some of those pattern companies aren't available around here), because I've had times, for regular daily wear items, that I've liked something from one pattern, and wanted to put it with something else, but the sizing was wrong. I was better off taking the existing pattern piece and making it work the way I wanted to, by remaking it, and going from there. Talk about a headache! > The only not-size-ten I ever made was a Civil War dress worn by a size 20 > lady – a BEAUTIFUL size 20 lady! I thought that reenactors, with their > interest in reality, would like to see a dress on a full figure and > Simplicity agreed to give it a try. I had to totally re-think everything, > even build as new dress form just for this outfit. It was a lot of work. I > thought the model looked great – especially in the corset. And the pattern > didn’t do well until we remade the dress in silk for a size ten. > > There’s a reason models are slim. People must want to see the > dresses that way. It’s an on-going discussion. > > Any thoughts? I was looking for the exact reply from someone, but for some reason, couldn't find it in my mail (I have a headache, so I'm not searching hard ). I've been deterred by the fact that the models almost always seem to be Callista Flockhart thin. This isn't just for the costumes, but also for the regular wear. It would, as with everything, mean more work, but having the models wearing different materials, and the models being different sizes, would help customers who aren't good at visualizing what something would look like on them. I'm 5'10" and wear a size 20. I drafted the pattern for a friend's wedding gown, and five weeks before the wedding, when we were doing some wedding shopping, she saw a costume pattern (everyone was starting to gear up for Halloween), and wondered if the way that dress looked would suit her better. She's lucky if she's 5' even, and she's quite on the plus size. She relied on my visualization abilities (for some reason, they are very acute for me), and trusted what I told her. She was most ravishing in her gown. That gown is shown on the page for my costumes. By using models from both ends of the spectrum, as well as the more opulent fabrics and the more "mundane" (ie: cottons, and lower priced items), customers can get an idea of what the gowns/clothes would look like on someone more like them, and within various economic standards. I really hope that this email has made sense. I keep going back over it and sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. If anything here is unclear, please let me know and I'll try to better explain it. Astrid Never argue with a dragon, for thou art crunchy and go well with Brie. http://www.geocities.com/tul_juriss - for links to ALL my current sites http://www.geocities.com/astridofthehorde - costumes I've made http://www.geocities.com/house_qul_mupwi - The noble Klingon House http://www.geocities.com/klingon_pirates_guild - The Klingon Pirate's Guild _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 17:49:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DLn0IO028358 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:49:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DLlY76005855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:47:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DLlUOY019202; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:47:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.224]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DLlROY019153 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:47:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Martha (24-90-83-116.nyc.rr.com [24.90.83.116]) with SMTP id h9DLlQgu020438 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:47:26 -0400 (EDT) From: "Martha Kelly" To: "h-costume" Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:47:46 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you want to catch the ear of the two ladies who choose which patterns are developed at Simplicity, come to the live chat this Thursday at 1:00 PM Eastern time. Abbie and Betsy will both be there. Just go to the Simplicity web site. I could (and will) pass along your suggestions, but it will be more effective if you talk to them directly. Express your size concerns, fitting problems, and what sort of patterns you’d like to see in the future. They really will be interested. Andrea Schewe is the guest speaker and she does most of the Ren Faire costumes. I was the guest for a couple of sessions, but not many people showed up. It ’s a bad time of day, isn’t it? Thank you everybody who wrote in such helpful suggestions today. Sometimes I feel like I’m working in a vacuum, so this was great. I have another question or two to pose, but I think I’ve had my time in the sun for now. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 17:51:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DLppIO028366 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:51:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DLp576006146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:51:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DLp4OY022062; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:51:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DLp0OZ021904 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-65.sonic.net [209.148.112.65]) (authenticated bits=0)h9DLors0014392 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:50:54 -0700 Message-ID: <3F8B1EDC.7000200@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:53:32 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume pattern wish list References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So how did you obtain the patterns? Who did you contact at the museum, and what was the procedure? Is this a book or a pattern, and what is it called? Thanks for any info, Fran Megan M. wrote: >I think a Greenland gown and hood would be a nice thing, not too difficult >for the average sewer. I just got a bunch of patterns from the National >Museum of Denmark in Copenhagen, that covers several of the gowns, and is >very nice. But not readily available to the US consumer. For the >reenactors, that is. I don't think that many costumers would be interested. >-Megan > > > ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 18:08:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DM8XIO028411 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:08:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DM6Y76007572 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:06:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DM6WIm004500; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:06:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DM6TIm004450 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:06:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id RAA29414 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:06:28 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Boudicca Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:06:28 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: <120.25eab528.2cbc7006@cs.com> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah, I was waiting for a look of incomprehension from the Brits. "Play ball? Is this a reference to some kind of weird Roman game?" And then the Brits to decapitate one of those Romans and say: "This is the only kind of ball we play with!" Too bad Alistar Cooke isn't still around to make some pithy comment(even if it had to wait to be in print)about the playing fast and loose with the known historical accuracy. Although the History Channel runs a film now and then runs a film and experts on the era comment now and then during breaks on the accuracies and fallicies of each film. Unfortunately, they aren't allowed to get too critical of a film--I'm waiting for a kind of VH-1 "pop-up video" version for historic films--lots of fun facts and comments in little pop-ups as the film runs! Can see it now--example Norma Shearer as "Marie Antoinette" : Note: Shearer's up-to-the minute makeup, fashionable '30's shoulder-line, 30's fabrics and Ziegfield Follies version of 1770's court-dress done in little pop-ups. Historical inaccuracies--the costume alone! "Makeup by Max Factor" "Bias cut lame" "Pure white wig" Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 18:12:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DMC6IO028425 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:12:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DM9P76007814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:09:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DM9OIm006889; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:09:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DM9KIm006822 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:09:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31547 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:33:03 -0500 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:33:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume pattern wish list In-Reply-To: <3F8B1EDC.7000200@lavoltapress.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9DM9KIm006822 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Megan M. wrote: > >I think a Greenland gown and hood would be a nice thing, not too difficult > >for the average sewer. I just got a bunch of patterns from the National > >Museum of Denmark in Copenhagen, that covers several of the gowns, and is > >very nice. But not readily available to the US consumer. Fran Grimble wrote: > So how did you obtain the patterns? Who did you contact at the > museum, and what was the procedure? Is this a book or a pattern, and > what is it called? I'm not Megan, but I inquired about these patterns a while ago. (Haven't bought them ... yet.) Here's what Jonna Hørning at the Denmark National Museum shop emailed to me in March 2001: ----- From: jonna.horning@natmus.dk Subject: SV: Garment patterns Sorry for answering so late. We have patterns Patterns for Norse Dress amd Hood Women, 78,40 DKK Men 1, 78,40 DKK Men 2, 78,40 DKK Socks, 54,40 DKK The patterns is recreated by using modern computer technology at Scandinavia's largest textile and clothing college. ----- I had actually asked several questions that she did not answer: which Greenland garments are the patterns based on, are the patterns modernized versions or exact replicas, and what sizes do they come in. She probably did not know, as all she just told me the names and prices. Megan, if you can provide any of that information based on the patterns themselves, I'd be most interested to hear. Me, I just went with the drawings and measurements Poul Norlund supplied in his 1924 writeup of the Herjolfsnes dig. The garments were sized to fit short malnourished Greenlanders, but once I worked out the cutting theory, I can use it on anyone. But that's not a pattern by any means. For people who want patterns, Jean Hunnisett adapted Norlund's diagram for Gown 38 to a graphed pattern in her 1996 book on medieval costume for the stage. This is one of the so-called "10-gore gowns" that everyone thinks of when they think of "Greenland gowns." I have no idea how well Hunnisett's pattern works in practice, though it's definitely a modern pattern for use with modern methods. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 18:17:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DMHQIO028446 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:17:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMGG76008382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:16:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMGFIm012520; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:16:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMGDIm012488 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:16:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1A9Az6-000ANp-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:16:12 +0100 Message-ID: <62KYr$HfPyi$IwI5@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:14:55 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Henry VIII" on TV tonight References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Me too - I stuck it on and dipped in and out between chores. What I saw stretched across the whole relationship with Anne Boleyn, up to and after the birth of Elizabeth. I never saw Helena wear any headdress at all, and it featured the worst, most amateur Tudor dress I've ever seen - it appeared to be a bodice and skirt, joined, of silver brocade, with brown cloth sleeves, really dull and uninteresting beigy-brown non-descript cloth, and - get this - an "overskirt" of the same brown stuff just sewn into the waist seam. Like one of those fake waistcoats that are attached into the side seams and shoulder seams of a shirt. No attempt at two garments at all. I've seen better in the local panto! And I wasn't exactly convinced by her standing in the doorway of the external wall of a manor house, at night, reading an A3 love letter from Henry and simpering to the guard who brought it "No reply." Aaaargh! Jean Kate M Bunting wrote >Yes, I saw it. I'd been intending to start a thread on this if no-one >else did. > >I'd heard a critic say in a preliminary review on the radio that the >King's London accent was rather obvious, so I was prepared for that. >I'm not an expert on Tudor costume, but I thought Helena B-C looked >ridiculous with all that hair flopping about - even when she wore a >headdress, there was too much hair showing round her face. It was even >worse than the headwear in "The other Boleyn girl" which we criticised a >few months ago. As someone said, it's as though a leading lady can't be >allowed to have all her hair hidden. > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby > >>>> lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com 10/12/03 09:59pm >>> >Ok, so I watched the first episode of the new ITV drama, "Henry VIII." >It took me about 20 minutes to work it out. >Ernie Wise wrote this, didn't he? >(snip) >Anyone else see this? > > > >Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT >Award winning Historical Romance author. >http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ >The Richard and Rose books from >Novelbooks >Inc. >YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE. VANESSA from >Awe-Struck > > > >________________________________________________________________________ >This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email >Security System. For more information on a proactive email security >service working around the clock, around the globe, visit >http://www.messagelabs.com >________________________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 18:30:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DMUnIO028507 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:30:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMTQ76009668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:29:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMTOIm023009; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:29:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMTLIm022934 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:29:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oldwaylane.net (dialup-67.72.166.226.Dial1.Washington1.Level3.net [67.72.166.226]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20880 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:29:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3F8B27B2.3090906@oldwaylane.net> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:31:14 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I think I've bought quite a few of your patterns, although it's not my period either. They are lovely, and I want to support having them! But... my two peeves are that the sizing stops at size 22. It's annoying to have to size up to a 28 (well it's annoying being overweight, but that doesn't help). Many other patterns go up to 24 at least, can't these increase too? I don't care too much if the model is wraith thin, but a "normal" size/shape might be nice - doesn't need to be plus size (except in the plus patterns). Also, I deal with helping alot of sewers learn to adapt patterns for fantasy outfits. One of the complaints I've seen is that they can't raise their arms very well. Seems to be common with a lot of patterns that they are being designed for having your arms straight down, and not allowing a lot of movement. Movement is a nice natural thing. It would be nice if the pattern didn't pull funky when you did it. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 18:33:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DMXRIO028519 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:33:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMM576008880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:22:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMM1Im017138; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMLwIm017093 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:21:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail20.ureach.com (mail20.ureach.com [172.16.2.80]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA10128 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:21:58 -0400 Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-158-58-102.asm.bellsouth.net [68.158.58.102]) by mail20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA10122 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:21:58 -0400 Message-ID: <002501c391d8$202624c0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:19:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the info! I will try to be there. I read the transcript of the two chats with you and wished I was there! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martha Kelly" To: "h-costume" Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 5:47 PM Subject: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list > If you want to catch the ear of the two ladies who choose which patterns are > developed at Simplicity, come to the live chat this Thursday at 1:00 PM > Eastern time. Abbie and Betsy will both be there. Just go to the Simplicity > web site. I could (and will) pass along your suggestions, but it will be > more effective if you talk to them directly. Express your size concerns, > fitting problems, and what sort of patterns you'd like to see in the future. > They really will be interested. Andrea Schewe is the guest speaker and she > does most of the Ren Faire costumes. > > I was the guest for a couple of sessions, but not many people showed up. It > 's a bad time of day, isn't it? > > Thank you everybody who wrote in such helpful suggestions today. Sometimes > I feel like I'm working in a vacuum, so this was great. I have another > question or two to pose, but I think I've had my time in the sun for now. > > Martha > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 18:36:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DMamIO028533 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:36:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMUM76009760 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:30:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMUKIm023752; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:30:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMUCIm023634 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:30:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-67.74.137.78.dial1.houston1.level3.net ([67.74.137.78] helo=diane) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A9BCZ-0003Bs-00 for H-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:30:08 -0700 Message-ID: <01b301c391d9$99c2d840$4e894a43@diane> From: "Diane Maynard" To: "H-costume" Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:30:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] designing costumes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h9DMamIO028533 Status: RO I am sorry that Simplicity dropped the medieval gown. I thought the gown was easy to make. It did take quite a lot of material to make but, when made, looked fabulous on. I actually made this gown for a friend of mine and tried it on to check the fit (she and I wear the same size). My boyfriend at the time saw the gown and tried to get me to keep it instead of giving to my friend. He just flipped over how it looked on. It seemed like such a simple dress but boy did it do wonders for my figure. Accentuate the bust, slimmed the waist and hid the hips. I loved it. I still have one more of this pattern (I always buy two) and someday will make it for myself. I would have already done so except I normally play in the SCA as an Elizabethan lady. Only 200 years difference in fashion. I also have ALL of the Victorian patterns. Have not had a chance to make them yet but, I just had to have them. Hopefully I will get one made in time for "Dickens on the Strand". I also would like to see more men's patterns. I also made up the Henry Vlll pattern for my adopted brother. The pattern worked well and needed few alterations for a man that was actually built like Henry Vlll and my brother was built like that. He got loads of compliments on it. Diane _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 18:39:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DMdsIO028541 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:39:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMbu76010452 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:37:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMbtIm000352; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:37:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMbUIm029902 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:37:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip95.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.95]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 198766FCAF for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:37:29 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:34:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining and sharing primarycostuming sources - was lawsuit over reselling of commercial patte Message-ID: <3F8AC61C.25352.9AA92A9@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3F85D420.2040102@lavoltapress.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I can't count how many times I've heard people worry that something on > their website may be illegal (they're not sure) and that therefore > someone may sue them or otherwise make their lives unpleasant. I also > can't count how many times I've heard people broach the question to a > mailing list as if the list members had the power to give permission, > which they don't. This has never made sense to me, because there is no > real reason to be in this uneasy position. Most professional authors > and publishers take the steps I mentioned to avoid it. It's silly to > beat around the bush forever doing guesswork, when you can just send > an email to a lawyer or to the copyright owner and get the issue > resolved. I suspect that what is really happening is not trying to get permission so much as trying to get free legal advice because they either can't afford to find a real copyright lawyer or because they don't know how to find a real copyright lawyer and figure that people on the list have had enough experience that it will substitute. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 18:39:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DMdsIO028542 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:39:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMbI76010394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:37:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMbHIm029742; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:37:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMbDIm029701 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:37:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip95.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.95]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B9A46F6FC for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:37:11 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:34:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clouet painting Message-ID: <3F8AC61A.28835.9AA8BF2@localhost> Priority: normal References: <000501c38ddd$091f9760$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-reply-to: <5.2.1.1.0.20031008171547.02e80008@64.87.54.245> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Thank you Bjarne for your comments. If you ever remember which books > have good Clouet paintings, I would appreciate if you would post them. > I am on the lookout for one. I'm not Bjarne but one of my favorite Clouet books is: _Jean & Francois Clouet" by Etienne Jollet (which is actually recent enough to have an ISBN: 2-909752-04-6). It has *many* color pics as well as black&white, with a lot of historical background stuff. The biggest drawback (to me, who doesn't know the language) is that it's entirely in French. There is another book which is full of the drawings of Clouet which I found about 18 years ago at the University of Washington Library. (I can't find the name of it, but if you do an ILL search for Clouet in the UoW library system, you can probably find it.) I hope to find it again someday for sale in a used book store, but so far I've not had the luck. (And of course, the copies I was able to get back then are *very* poor quality and don't show diddly squat. Sigh. Thank goodness that technology has improved.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 18:41:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DMf2IO028550 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:41:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMcU76010537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:38:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMcTIm000881; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:38:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMbmIm000270 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:37:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip95.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.95]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40BEB6F1C2 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:37:40 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:34:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty in obtaining and sharing primarycostuming sources - was lawsuit over reselling of commercial patte Message-ID: <3F8AC61B.31248.9AA9057@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000f01c38dfe$a086bc20$b539a5d1@pavilion> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Next morning, Miss > Penelope Chalk steps out her front door and finds my trunk on her > lawn. She reports it to the police, runs an ad in the newspaper but > no one claims it after 45 days and it's now her's to do as she > pleases. She's not party to any licensing agreement and the material > is not under copyright. She doesn't need to ask the owners of the > original material for access to the books because she already has > copies. Property rights are of no value here because there is no need > to access any one else's property. She could now set up her own book > selling service, probably quite legally with little or no investment > on her part much to the detriment of those who paid for the books, > microfilmed them and set up the online service. That is not a good > situation for people currently running businesses using public domain > material at all. Somehow I suspect that if she *did* publish them etc., that it would be illegal but I would recommend checking with a copyright lawyer (not a general lawyer but a lawyer who specifically does copyright since the field is *constantly* changing and it's an area where little details are extremely significant. Unless it is just about all they do, copyright is a legal area where a general lawyer can get you into more trouble and ignorance of the law is not a defense.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 18:43:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DMhcIO028561 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:43:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMbZ76010419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:37:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMbYIm029946; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:37:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMbOIm029819 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:37:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip95.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.95]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE1906F62C for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:37:22 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:34:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Old tartan Message-ID: <3F8AC617.32656.9AA8163@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3F832074.F1FCFCA3@charter.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > "There was a kind of patterned material, but it wasn't tartan as we > know it. There are accounts of patterned or checked fabric..." > It was this early sort of pattern that I am trying to find evidence > of and sources for. Clan tartans were a much later invention, so I > certainly had not intended to call mine a clan tartan. I am just > trying to research what the patterns might have looked like and if > some of the modern one's would be similar. Too bad there seem to be > none in existence from the middle ages. Basically, prior to the Sobieski brothers and the return of the "tartan", Scottish people used whatever the weavers came up with in their area. It was not set the way it has become. And if you are looking at 16th Century, they could do elaborate patterns if they chose, both in terms of color and thread design. Look through any book on the history of weaving (I like Agnes Geijner's book) and you can find out what was possible in terms of weaving ability. The basic weaving of plaid is what you'd find in terms of pattern. As to the colors, find out what dye plants were available in the area where the weaver lived and the color they made. Don't bother to look at the modern tartan colors, even the ones listed as "ancient" (as these were not necessarily what would have been worn.) I've seen at least 2 books on the regional availability of specific dyestuffs in Scotland. (I just don't have the names available right now. I'm sure you could find them through a ILL or used book search.) And use several patterns in the same colors in the same outfit. For example, make your trews (if you use them) of one pattern and your kilt of another. There's a very charming painting from the time of the clearances of a Highland chief's family where there were as many "tartans" being worn by them as there were garments. The patterns themselves were not set except for what the local weaver may have preferred depending on how much of each color she had available at that time. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 18:43:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DMhfIO028564 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:43:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMcF76010504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:38:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMcFIm000647; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:38:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMbYIm029945 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:37:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip95.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.95]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6C516F8E7 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:37:32 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:34:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume books I've just boaght, and why costuming is taking a back seat now:( Message-ID: <3F8AC61A.17230.9AA8E05@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000f01c38d87$bf35c7a0$f2c4adcb@michaela> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Anne of Cleves, by Mary Saalar (I think.) Nice list in there of what > she got after the divorce/annullment mentions her wearing English > costume soonish after arriving in England. Cool! Do you have an ISBN on this one. (I've seen stuff about both she and Caterine of Aragon changing from their native clothes to those of England when they came to England, but I've never seen the actual list! Much more valuable to the things I like to do!) > The Woman Beautiful, or Maidenhood, Mariage and Maternity. Published > pre WWI on everything a woman "needs" to know. So there is information > on how you should dress, flirt and find a marriage partner. Or indeed > to not marry. There are amazing anotomical etchings in there and a > flip thing of the organs of a woman. She's pregant of course as that's > the natural state for a woman;) Also I know we've discussed > menstruation on this list before in relation to costuming.. this book > suggests the menses is nothing more than a little fluid and only if > you are "diseased" then there is much blood and last for several days. > > Hands up anyone who would like to live in that fantasy world.... Yep. Definitely. However, studies done on this subject have shown that women in the past generally far fewer periods than modern women and that they were much lighter and shorter than what is currently considered normal for modern women. Has something to do with nutrition, genetics, pregnancy numbers, and other health related factors that contribute to such things. > So sewing is extremely painful, and actually detrimental to my wrists. > I have no idea how much sewing I'm capable of doing, but recently I've > been able to sew about a seam a day. With a day or two between. Ouch! Not a good thing for any of us needleworkers (although it tends to end up being a problem for sooooo many of us.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 18:57:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DMvYIO028581 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:57:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMsV76012360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:54:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMsSIm013548; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:54:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f27.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DMsQIm013449 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:54:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:54:20 -0700 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:54:20 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:54:20 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Oct 2003 22:54:20.0567 (UTC) FILETIME=[F039FA70:01C391DC] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume pattern wish list X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "What I propose they do is a walk through the decades and show case them as from the archives so that we know they are limited editions of precious items from our great grandmother's time." This is such a fantastic idea!!! I would be all over that. I'm sure many more would be too. I wonder what we can do to get them to try this??? Martha, can you pull some strings with the big-wigs? :) Also, I didn't realize that Martha was on this list. That makes me, personally, more likely to purchase the patterns that I like instead of just coveting them. I tend to look at the pattern book, like what I see, but not actually purchase unless I have a specific need in mind. I would love to own some of these patterns just for fun. Now I have a more personal reason to purchase them! :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy patented spam control and more. Get two months FREE! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/byoa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 19:12:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DNCBIO028629 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:12:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DNB476013731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:11:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DNB1AO025138; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DNAuAO025056 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:10:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31978 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:34:37 -0500 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:34:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume books I've just boaght, and why costuming is taking a back seat now:( In-Reply-To: <3F8AC61A.17230.9AA8E05@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > Also I know we've discussed > > menstruation on this list before in relation to costuming.. this book > > suggests the menses is nothing more than a little fluid and only if > > you are "diseased" then there is much blood and last for several days. > > > > Hands up anyone who would like to live in that fantasy world.... > Yep. Definitely. However, studies done on this subject have shown that > women in the past generally far fewer periods than modern women and > that they were much lighter and shorter than what is currently > considered normal for modern women. Has something to do with > nutrition, genetics, pregnancy numbers, and other health related > factors that contribute to such things. And exercise levels, too, I'd think. I know that menstrual cramps are statistically far rarer in women who excercise frequently, and I bet flow is less too. And people of past periods were far more physically active just in the course of daily life than the average modern American woman. This is something to keep in mind when people say "Oh, they couldn't have managed without underwear in [your choice of past period] because of menstrual flow." When periods are lighter and less frequent, solutions can be different -- far less padding or absorbent material might have done the trick quite well, in either a tampon or belt arrangement, and have been required for fewer days. And in some cultures, the solution is "Stay in bed" (or in a special house/hut) for the duration. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 19:26:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DNQ9IO028669 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:26:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DNOk76014831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:24:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DNOhAO004691; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:24:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DNOfAO004647 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:24:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip95.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.95]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D12536A90D for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:19:45 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:24:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] re. designing commercial patterns Message-ID: <3F8AD1CF.7322.9D848FE@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-description: Mail message body Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9DNOfAO004647 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Thank you. Yes the medieval things were mine. They were meant to be > costumes, pure and simple. They have been pulled because sales > weren’t good enough to justify their catalogue space. I was sorry to > see them go because I thought they were pretty. I meant for them to > look like manuscript illuminations – somewhere between truth and > fantasy. The model wore them well, I thought. > > We think they were too difficult (and took too much fabric) for > “costumes” and were not authentic enough for reenactment. Do you have > any other insight as to why they failed? I generally buy any "historic costume" pattern I can get (in all the sizes). One of the things I was disappointed in with the sideless surcoat one is that the model on the front looked wonderful and the dress seemed to have the right lines, but when I actually pulled out the pattern to see how it had been drafted, there were those pesky Victorian bust darts. That made me *very* disappointed. I think that you are probably right about them not hitting the market correctly (too high for some, too low for the historians). But another problem is pattern price. I really balk at buying a pattern for full price, especially since I'm getting so many of them. I usually wait for JoAnn's special "all patterns except Burda on sale for $1 sale. Even at half price they are a bit spendy (which many fabric stores have them "on sale" always) it's a bit much. I've been disappointed many times that they don't try to keep them around very long. I understand it, but when I tell people: go get Simplicity pattern XXXX and do these modifications and it will work great, and then find out that the pattern is no longer available, it's a pain. About the time that people figure out that they are there, it's already too late and they are being phased out. (The Henry VIII pattern is like that. The tights pattern is one of the few which is cut more similarly to the way they would have been cut compared to almost any pattern I've ever seen. And now it's gone!) Sometimes they don't keep them in stock well either. I can't tell you how often I've looked at the new book, found a new pattern which I thought looked like it would be good for people to use, gone to the bins and found that the only thing that they are already out of stock. (It took going to several stores to get all the pieces to the Civil War day dress that I wanted in all the sizes. And often I can't find *any* of the size I want even if I go to all the stores in town.) So perhaps if they would have more than 1 of each size sent to the store they might sell a few more. That is a major marketing problem because it means that someone who *would* buy it can't and so they don't buy anything from the pattern book. People who want historical costume patterns don't want to "make do" with another time period or something from another part of the pattern book. They want what they came in for. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 19:26:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DNQNIO028672 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:26:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DNPC76014873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:25:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DNPBAO004961; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:25:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DNOgAO004677 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:24:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip95.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.95]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC8BF6A892 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:19:47 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:24:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty inobtainingandsharingprimarycostumingsources- was lawsuit over reselling ofcommercialpatterns Message-ID: <3F8AD1CF.1737.9D84719@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <006f01c3910c$163e1bb0$fd42a6d0@castlebooks> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Several years ago, when Dover first started reprinting Norris' works, > which had been out of print for a number of years, a number of costume > people who had laboriously Xeroxed a copy from a friend or the > library bought a nice new professionally published version, since it > was easier to use and not expensive. Yes, and I still remember waiting for them to do it because the estate people were slowing down Dover's acquisition of the rights to it. There were already people "reprinting" it but they were doing so illegally. I know that I haven't seen anything from that particular press for quite some time (which was a pity because some of their stuff I enjoyed.) Of course, while waiting for Dover to get the rights to Norris so many better books with more correct information that I almost didn't buy it when it came out. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 19:49:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DNnPIO028738 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:49:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DNln76016433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:47:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DNljAO018590; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:47:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.thibault.org [66.92.75.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DNleAP018462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:47:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by sergyar.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h9DNtXCj009075 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:55:33 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by sergyar.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:55:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F8B39C5.1060501@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:48:21 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re. willowy models References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Martha Kelly wrote: > We get mail asking for larger sizes and designs suitable for larger women. > When we make them, they don’t sell well enough to stay in the book. I love hard data! Thank you! Hmm. So it's not the model size after all. Someone mentioned the price, which myself, I don't find offputting, but I could see how one might. And if there are lots of people out there who wait to buy them until they are on sale for a buck or two, the pattern company and the fabric store selling them make no money at all from it, so it's hardly a wonder that they get discontinued. Could you imagine if no one bought the Harry Potter book until it was remaindered for a dollar? There wouldn't have been any other volumes. The mention someone made about there being a big difference between "I want to make a costume to wear to the Ren Faire as a guest" and stuff that's medieval, was interesting. I haven't yet heard of *any* Medieval Faires around the USA, just Ren Faires. So I would expect the Ren patterns to have sold better. Did they? Maybe the patterns could list a time period and location on them. I don't think that the sideless/cotehardie one did, but something like "this is a costume in the style of noble women in France in 1300 AD." I'm so glad you spoke up, Martha. It's great to have some real information about how this stuff works, and I hope you're enjoying the fan mail! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Education and religion are two things not regulated by supply and demand. The less of either the people have, the less they want. -- Charlotte Observer, 1897 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 20:05:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E05HIO028777 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:05:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DNxI76017154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:59:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DNxGGq024842; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:59:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DNxCGq024748 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:59:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.168]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id h9E0Q0V29235 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:26:00 +1000 Message-ID: <056001c391e6$cba50100$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00ae01c391a2$45dbd470$75f5da0c@DT2JBTC21> Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:04:52 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Susan, Don't get too excited about Pepys' London! It was a fairly odd collection of things, though I don't recall anything from Pepys himself. I didn't find it any more informative than other museum's exhibits on the 17th century. My favourite example of drawing a long bow was he had a bladder stone removed the size of a tennis ball. Here's a 19th century bladder stone Here's a 17th century tennis ball Another was he wrote in a 17th century shorthand script Here's a few pages in someone else's 17th century shorthand Also, the MoL does not allow general photography (or sketches, but that didn't stop Wayne taking a few notes that were a little sketchlike). They had some interesting examples of early metropolitan slipware tucked away as part of a life in Stuart London display that Wayne wants to make copies of. They didn't even have the accession numbers or descriptions of them. We will have to chase them up on email. I am a bit grumpy that the V&A's exhibit didn't start a couple of weeks earlier. It draws from a heap of interesting places around the country, many of which I had been to, and they had items at the V&A for the exhibit already. Oh well.. what does one do? It looks like it'll be a wonderful exhibit. The Museum of Costume at Nottingham closed on 1st October. They said that they will open 'in 3 years, maybe. They haven't even started the building where they want to house it yet'. They also said that it will probably be a booking only museum, not one open to the general public. Hope you have a wonderful time! Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 1:54 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition > De lurking to reply to this thread.. Now that is excitement for you. > > I'll be flying out Monday next to the UK for two weeks! I am almost besides > myself at the exhibits that are now open while I'll be there. Not only the > Gothic Art at the V& A but Pepys' London and 1920s: the decade that changed > London at the Museum of London. http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/ The > LOTR exhibition at the Science Museum > http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/exhibitions/lordoftherings/default_flash.asp > And well just everything! > > Susan > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 20:40:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E0eGIO028843 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:40:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E0ce76019647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:38:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E0ccGq014762; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:38:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9E0cZGq014695 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:38:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCsU2p3KZuOBzi6Pm08+Aw9kUYAWlj8maLg==">; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:38:14 PDT Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JCEPH2ZF; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:38:14 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:34:03 -0500 Message-ID: <20031013.193403.-603231.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,9-12 From: seamstrix@juno.com Subject: [h-cost] Not Paying attention...... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello Everyone, I'm afraid I wasn't paying attention recently when some folks were discussing the 'vegetable dye' fabrics at JoAnn. Did we actually decide if they are appropriate for any time periods or are they all hopelessly modern? The designs look fairly good for Indian design motifs, but I'm not an expert. A quick summary/refresher would be appreciated! Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 21:07:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E177IO029718 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:07:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E14l76021027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:04:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E14iQN028211; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:04:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E14dQN028067 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:04:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-237-231.client.attbi.com[12.246.237.231]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2003101401042901500mh4gve>; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:04:29 +0000 Message-ID: <3F8B4B9F.8050907@fenris.net> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:04:31 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re. willowy models References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Martha Kelly wrote: >May I seek your insight? > >A couple of you mentioned that the very slender model might be off-putting. >This is something we discuss all the time in the costume/craft department. >We get mail asking for larger sizes and designs suitable for larger women. >When we make them, they don’t sell well enough to stay in the book. > > > I am catching up on my mail today, and I'm sure I'll repeat some things others have said. Anyhow! I am a tall, large women, 5' 11" probably a 18 - 20 RTW. I sew for myself. The only things I buy ready made are jeans, underwear and t-shirts. Not speaking directly to the Simplicity line of historical patterns (which I've never looked at), I am not happy w/ the patterns provided for sizes 20+. The proportions are funny, and the detail elements (like sashes and the like) are still scaled for a size 8 or what ever. I always have to change the scale of the detail pieces or the dress looks odd. When I was skinny (a 12) the only adjustment I had to make was to lengthen everything 2 - 3 inches. At 18/20, I have to futz a lot more. I realize that everybody puts on weight differently, and maybe I'm not the norm, but for a blouse I use an 18 shoulder and bust, a 20 waist and often a 22 arm if the sleeve is close fitting. Hi. The giant perambulating pear, here. :) Most of the photos I see for plus-size patterns are not flattering. Yes, the model is probably at least a size 12, but the clothes are ill fitting, and most seem to be modeled on a basic tent. This may seem harsh, but if I wanted to make a shapeless sack to wear, I don't need a pattern. Ok, that was harsh. Sorry. But it stands. I also have trouble visualizing what a dress photographed on a size 8 or what have you will look like on me. I'm getting better about it, mostly by ignoring the drawing or photo on the front of the pattern and going right to the line drawings on the back. The styles designated as appropriate or saleable for large sizes are generally not flattering on me. Lately, I've been revisiting my Folkwear patterns, many of which have been reissued in larger sizes. So, after all that ranting, I would like to see well made, well fitted clothes photographed on large models. That would get me buying patterns! You betcha! I wish I had seen the Simplicity historical you-all are talking about. I bet it looked good! liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 21:10:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E1AIIO029793 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:10:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E18O76021367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:08:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E18OQN000188; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:08:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E18LQN029974 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:08:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 204.127.135.42 ([204.127.135.42]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2003101401081611200hq5ile>; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:08:16 +0000 Received: from [67.9.30.242] by 204.127.135.42; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:08:16 +0000 From: sewinggoddess@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:08:16 +0000 Message-Id: <101420030108.684.68d8@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 10 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: c2V3aW5nZ29kZGVzc0BhdHQubmV0 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OOh, wait one more for the pattern wish list! I would dearly love to see a great Men's Cavalier outfit, one done in a simple style and another one with all the lace trimmings. And a decent CAvalier overcoat too, please. I'm tired of redrafting the one style I have made to fit all the gentlemen who want it. Thanks! I just finished the Corset pattern with the bust gores for a friend and it fit her beautifully! Did you realize that the instructions *never* say what to do with the waist stay once it's " pinned in place"? And I've been sewing for 25 years now and I must say that this one took some time to figure out. Definitely not for the weekend sewer. But I enjoyed the challenge! Crissy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 21:22:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E1MEIO029810 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:22:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E1La76022148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:21:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E1LZQN007336; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:21:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.thibault.org [66.92.75.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E1LVQO007271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:21:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by sergyar.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h9E1TPCj010164 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:29:25 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by sergyar.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:29:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F8B4FC4.3060201@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:22:12 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re. willowy models References: <3F8B4B9F.8050907@fenris.net> In-Reply-To: <3F8B4B9F.8050907@fenris.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Elizabeth Young wrote: > but for a blouse I use an 18 shoulder and bust, a 20 waist and often a > 22 arm if the sleeve is close fitting. I recall seeing ads for a company that did personalized patterns. You sent them five thousand precise measurements, paid a joining fee, and then you could buy (modern) patterns from them, precisely scaled and adjusted for your figure. Don't know if they're still in business. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Education and religion are two things not regulated by supply and demand. The less of either the people have, the less they want. -- Charlotte Observer, 1897 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 21:57:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E1vLIO029864 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:57:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E1ug76024273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:56:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E1ud1G025181; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:56:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.188]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9E1uZ1G025139 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:56:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-118-230-145.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 2003 01:56:35 -0000 Message-ID: <004f01c391f7$0f045e40$91e67643@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F8B27B2.3090906@oldwaylane.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:01:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I pretty much buy every new costume pattern that comes out, just to have them. Now that I know they get discontinued I'll probably buy them in multiple sizes. I don't usually wait until they go on sale either, but then I'm a pattern freak. I just love having lots of patterns around, and I rarely make them "as is" but it's a great place to start. A sleeve from here, a skirt from there. I end up redrafting most everything, but it's so much easier to have basic shapes to begin with. angela Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "O, what a world of vile ill-favored faults looks handsome in three hundred pounds a year!..." The Merry Wives of Windsor, III, iv - W. Shakespeare _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 22:32:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E2W7IO029980 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:32:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E2UA76025864 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:30:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E2U61G011100; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:30:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.224]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E2U11G011056 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:30:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Martha (24-90-83-116.nyc.rr.com [24.90.83.116]) with SMTP id h9E2U0gu008693 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:30:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Martha Kelly" To: "h-costume" Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:30:00 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] re. medieval bust dart X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO “One of the things I was disappointed in with the sideless surcoat one is that the model on the front looked wonderful and the dress seemed to have the right lines, but when I actually pulled out the pattern to see how it had been drafted, there were those pesky Victorian bust darts. That made me *very* disappointed.” Kat Your comment about the “pesky Victorian bust darts” sent me flying to my pattern archives. I make all the costumes you see on the pattern envelopes (the Martha McCain ones, that is) and I knew there was no bust dart whatsoever in a medieval pattern I had made. So, I thought maybe the pattern department at Simplicity had sneaked in one. But no. Kat, you have confused my pattern with someone else’s. Perhaps Butterick? Before we got more serious about historical accuracy, Simplicity did change my patterns around a bit for various reasons. I was unhappy that they chose to piece the sideless gown and cotehardie/kirtle in an odd place because it had to fit on the pattern tissue. And I was sad the beautiful thin model had such long arms that the sleeves, meant to kiss her knuckles, barely covered her wrists. I will certainly mention the marketing problems to those who can deal with it. This is out of my ball park, but I can see it’s a problem and the Front Office Guys should hear about it. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 22:37:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E2bCIO030007 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:37:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E2aJ76026206 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:36:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E2aI1G014023; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:36:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E2aF1G013957 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:36:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a217.in-tch.com [66.62.107.17]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9E2FWH01839 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:15:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F8B61AA.7B9C361D@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:38:34 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition References: <00ae01c391a2$45dbd470$75f5da0c@DT2JBTC21> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can we all just get together and *hate* you? I wanna go back sooooo bad! Have a wonderful time, and don't forget to tell us all about it when you're home! --another Susan Susan wrote: > > De lurking to reply to this thread.. Now that is excitement for you. > > I'll be flying out Monday next to the UK for two weeks! I am almost besides > myself at the exhibits that are now open while I'll be there. Not only the > Gothic Art at the V& A but Pepys' London and 1920s: the decade that changed > London at the Museum of London. http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/ The > LOTR exhibition at the Science Museum > http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/exhibitions/lordoftherings/default_flash.asp > And well just everything! > > Susan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robin Netherton" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 8:56 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition > > > > > On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Stevie Gamble wrote: > > > > > http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsites/1220_gothic/introduction.php > > > > > > I feel moved to offer sofa space to any h-coster able to beg, steal, > > > borrow or generally liberate a plane ticket to London between now and > > > January 18th when the exhibition ends. There are apparently objects > > > never seen before outside private homes, and likely not to be seen > > > again after the exhibition ends.... > > > > Sigh. I've been surfing this site for months. I know a few of the speakers > > at the conference portion of the program (which is sometime this month, > > might be over by now). I am jealous, jealous, jealous of anyone who can be > > there. There was a time when I could have just dropped everything and > > trotted off, but now with two kids, a traveling spouse, a business, and > > lecture trips, that's no longer possible. Sigh. Someone go and look well > > on my behalf, OK? > > > > --Robin > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > (http://www.plugit.com)] > > > > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 22:45:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E2jVIO030026 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:45:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E2ip76026710 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:44:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E2io1G018118; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:44:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E2ik1G018044 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:44:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a217.in-tch.com [66.62.107.17]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9E2O4H05480 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:24:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F8B63AA.7089B143@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:47:06 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Boudicca References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Why does this all make me think of a costume version of MST3K? I can just picture watching costume/historical flicks on t.v., with the "front row" silhouettes of various experts.... Just think, we could have Bjarne and Albert do some of the 18th c. stuff, and Nicole could comment on the Restoration ones.... --sue Cindy Abel wrote: > > Yeah, I was waiting for a look of incomprehension from the Brits. "Play > ball? Is this a reference to some kind of weird Roman game?" And then the > Brits to decapitate one of those Romans and say: "This is the only kind of > ball we play with!" > > Too bad Alistar Cooke isn't still around to make some pithy comment(even if > it had to wait to be in print)about the playing fast and loose with the > known historical accuracy. > > Although the History Channel runs a film now and then runs a film and > experts on the era comment now and then during breaks on the accuracies and > fallicies of each film. Unfortunately, they aren't allowed to get too > critical of a film--I'm waiting for a kind of VH-1 "pop-up video" version > for historic films--lots of fun facts and comments in little pop-ups as the > film runs! > > Can see it now--example Norma Shearer as "Marie Antoinette" : > > Note: Shearer's up-to-the minute makeup, fashionable '30's shoulder-line, > 30's fabrics and Ziegfield Follies version of 1770's court-dress done in > little pop-ups. Historical inaccuracies--the costume alone! "Makeup by Max > Factor" "Bias cut lame" "Pure white wig" > > Cindy Abel > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 22:55:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E2tsIO030041 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:55:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E2t976027277 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:55:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E2t8Dn022970; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:55:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [63.251.216.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E2t6Dn022961 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:55:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from megan2 (pcp793473pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [68.50.52.14]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0936D15C33 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:15:05 -0700 (PDT) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costume pattern wish list- Danish patterns Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:49:38 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3F8B1EDC.7000200@lavoltapress.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A friend of mine was at the museum last June, and brought back two patterns, alas, not for me. So I started trying to get them then. Here is a temporary link to the pattern covers to show you what they look like: http://www.benchite.com/patterns_from_the_national_museu.htm I bought these patterns sight unseen as they are not on the web anywhere. They have five different clothing patterns at the moment. 1. The Bocksten Man (mantel, struthatta, kjortel, hosor and skor, which translates into cape, hood, dress, leggings and shoes, I think),2. Women's dress and hood, that dress has two gores in front and two on each side, and elbow length sleeves. 3. Man's gown and hood, the one with the buttons down the front 4. a second man's gown and hood, the gown just has two gores each side, and 5. a pattern for long and short hose. The hose are "adult size". All the garments these were based on were found in Herjolfsnes, Greenland in 1921, except the man's pullover gown without buttons which was found in 1840 near the churchyard according to the pattern information. Sizing: Note, these are all garment measurements, not the wearer's measurements! Hose are in small 38/39 (5/6), medium 40/41 (7/7.5), large 42/43 (8/9), and X-large 44/45 (10/11). The small are the original size, measuring 38.5 inches long and 19.75 inches around the thigh. The XL measure 41 inches in length and 22 inches around the thigh. The short hose only come in small, medium, and large. Woman's gown: Size small, medium and large, with small being the original size. Small lists bust 40 inches, sleeve length 12 inches, dress length 48 inches, while large lists bust 46.5 inches, sleeve length 12.5 inches, length 57.5 inches. Man's gown with buttons: Size small, medium and large. Size small chest 53.5 inches, large 63 inches. Sleeve length 24.5 to 26 inches, length 40 to 43 3/8 inches. Man's pullover gown: SML, Chest 43 3/8 inches to 52 3/4 inches, sleeve length 22.5-25 5/8 inches, garment length 43 3/8 to 49 5/8 inches. I have no idea on the Bocksten man- it is all in Danish and there are no tables of measurements. I think that one may have to be altered to fit. When I get into the pattern perhaps I'll have more info on it. The gown appears to be the one with the gores starting at the waist instead of at the armpit like the other gowns. Perhaps Bjarne can help me out here with translation, after I get the text typed in. Contact information: The National Museum Frederiksholms Kanal 12 1220 København K +45 3347 3808 Email: butik@natmus.dk I called them repeatedly, and it took over 2 months for them to send me the pro forma invoice. They do not do credit cards over the phone, so they send you the invoice, you send it back with credit card info, then they will ship when they have the money. It worked out to just over $15 per pattern including shipping when all was said and done. If I had seen them first, I might not have purchased all of them, but I'm also glad I did. Anyone who can draft their own patterns probably does not need these, but they include a little bit of info about the garments they are drafted from, including where the garments are now, what they are made of , the weave of the cloth, thread count, etc. A nice resource. Hope this helps, -Megan Fran had written: So how did you obtain the patterns? Who did you contact at the museum, and what was the procedure? Is this a book or a pattern, and what is it called? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 23:09:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E39FIO030094 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:09:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E38X76027900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:08:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E38WDn029247; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:08:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E38TDn029186 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:08:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip95.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.95]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27DF56D8C3 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:08:27 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:08:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] re. medieval bust dart Message-ID: <3F8B064D.6608.AA554FF@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-description: Mail message body Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9E38TDn029186 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Your comment about the “pesky Victorian bust darts” sent me flying to > my pattern archives. I make all the costumes you see on the pattern > envelopes (the Martha McCain ones, that is) and I knew there was no > bust dart whatsoever in a medieval pattern I had made. So, I thought > maybe the pattern department at Simplicity had sneaked in one. But > no. Kat, you have confused my pattern with someone else’s. Perhaps > Butterick? Simplicity 8725 was the one I was thinking of, but now that I've pulled it out, I don't see the princess line I had remembered after all. Heaven only knows what I was remembering. Sorry to scare you that way! > Before we got more serious about historical accuracy, Simplicity did > change my patterns around a bit for various reasons. I was unhappy > that they chose to piece the sideless gown and cotehardie/kirtle in an > odd place because it had to fit on the pattern tissue. And I was sad > the beautiful thin model had such long arms that the sleeves, meant to > kiss her knuckles, barely covered her wrists. It's still done much better than the patterns that other companies do (even the small shop ones), despite your frustrations. I generally don't actually use any of my patterns, but I have them to show other people what they can get. (I tend to draft all my own patterns and teach my students and apprentices to do the same. The patterns are more for the new people who ask me about such things.) Which is why it is so frustrating when they go out too fast. First round you sell fewer because the word has to get out from us teachers to the general public. Then the next Halloween season (which they tend to include more of this sort of thing) I always hope that people will have the opportunity to go out and buy them for themselves. So, more often times will be bought on that second time around (at least if *I* have anything to do with it.) > I will certainly mention the marketing problems to those who can deal > with it. This is out of my ball park, but I can see it’s a problem and > the Front Office Guys should hear about it. As to the one I've not been able to find in stock yet, it is your 9764 in size RR. I must admit I haven't looked for it lately so the stores might have it again, if it is still on the books. But the year it came out I couldn't find it anywhere because they were all out of stock (and I was looking for it at several Portland/Vancouver JoAnns stores over several months.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 23:35:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E3ZNIO030165 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:35:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E3Yd76029136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:34:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E3YbDn011969; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:34:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9E3YZDn011952 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:34:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 60431 invoked by uid 1005); 14 Oct 2003 03:34:20 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.129974 secs); 14 Oct 2003 03:34:20 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.129974 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2003 03:34:20 -0000 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:34:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costume pattern wish list- Danish patterns In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031013233345.A32459-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9E3YZDn011952 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow!!! Thanks so much for the pictures, and the contact info! Medieval scandinavian dress is not my personal period of interest, but I know several people who will jump up and down with excitement when they see these. Drea On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Megan M. wrote: > A friend of mine was at the museum last June, and brought back two patterns, > alas, not for me. So I started trying to get them then. Here is a > temporary link to the pattern covers to show you what they look like: > http://www.benchite.com/patterns_from_the_national_museu.htm I bought these > patterns sight unseen as they are not on the web anywhere. They have five > different clothing patterns at the moment. 1. The Bocksten Man (mantel, > struthatta, kjortel, hosor and skor, which translates into cape, hood, > dress, leggings and shoes, I think),2. Women's dress and hood, that dress > has two gores in front and two on each side, and elbow length sleeves. 3. > Man's gown and hood, the one with the buttons down the front 4. a second > man's gown and hood, the gown just has two gores each side, and 5. a pattern > for long and short hose. The hose are "adult size". All the garments these > were based on were found in Herjolfsnes, Greenland in 1921, except the > man's pullover gown without buttons which was found in 1840 near the > churchyard according to the pattern information. > > Sizing: > Note, these are all garment measurements, not the wearer's measurements! > Hose are in small 38/39 (5/6), medium 40/41 (7/7.5), large 42/43 (8/9), and > X-large 44/45 (10/11). The small are the original size, measuring 38.5 > inches long and 19.75 inches around the thigh. The XL measure 41 inches in > length and 22 inches around the thigh. The short hose only come in small, > medium, and large. > > Woman's gown: > Size small, medium and large, with small being the original size. Small > lists bust 40 inches, sleeve length 12 inches, dress length 48 inches, while > large lists bust 46.5 inches, sleeve length 12.5 inches, length 57.5 inches. > > Man's gown with buttons: > Size small, medium and large. Size small chest 53.5 inches, large 63 > inches. Sleeve length 24.5 to 26 inches, length 40 to 43 3/8 inches. > > Man's pullover gown: > SML, Chest 43 3/8 inches to 52 3/4 inches, sleeve length 22.5-25 5/8 inches, > garment length 43 3/8 to 49 5/8 inches. > > I have no idea on the Bocksten man- it is all in Danish and there are no > tables of measurements. I think that one may have to be altered to fit. > When I get into the pattern perhaps I'll have more info on it. The gown > appears to be the one with the gores starting at the waist instead of at > the armpit like the other gowns. Perhaps Bjarne can help me out here with > translation, after I get the text typed in. > > Contact information: > The National Museum > Frederiksholms Kanal 12 > 1220 København K > +45 3347 3808 > Email: butik@natmus.dk > > I called them repeatedly, and it took over 2 months for them to send me the > pro forma invoice. They do not do credit cards over the phone, so they send > you the invoice, you send it back with credit card info, then they will ship > when they have the money. It worked out to just over $15 per pattern > including shipping when all was said and done. If I had seen them first, I > might not have purchased all of them, but I'm also glad I did. Anyone who > can draft their own patterns probably does not need these, but they include > a little bit of info about the garments they are drafted from, including > where the garments are now, what they are made of , the weave of the cloth, > thread count, etc. A nice resource. > Hope this helps, > -Megan > > Fran had written: > So how did you obtain the patterns? Who did you contact at the museum, > and what was the procedure? Is this a book or a pattern, and what is it > called? > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 13 23:57:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E3vKIO030198 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:57:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E3uZ76000439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:56:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E3uXZA022458; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:56:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E3uRZA022420 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:56:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMQ000RRAY2LX@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:56:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:51:52 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clouet painting In-reply-to: <3F8AC61A.28835.9AA8BF2@localhost> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031013205025.00b086b8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031008171547.02e80008@64.87.54.245> <000501c38ddd$091f9760$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Kat Thanks for your recommendations. I had seen the _Jean & Francois Clouet_ book in a few searches, but no info on how good it was. I will keep an eye out for a copy I can afford. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 00:31:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E4V1IO030269 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:31:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E4UH76002143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:30:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E4UFZA008448; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:30:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.19.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E4UDZB008405 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:30:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-115-50.sonic.net [209.148.115.50]) (authenticated bits=0)h9E4U6Se002985 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:30:07 -0700 Message-ID: <3F8B7C6E.5070804@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:32:46 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume pattern wish list- Danish patterns References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks to you and Robin. I bugged Fred Struthers (Books on Cloth) to look into the Danish patterns. He orders a lot of foreign publications and usually manages to overcome inguistic and payment problems. I don't know if I'd want them or not; but Fred is potentially interested in selling them anyway. Thanks a lot, Fran ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 00:32:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E4WJIO030274 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:32:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E4Vf76002216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:31:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E4VeZA009132; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:31:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E4VbZA009075 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:31:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from M311@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1c1.1033bcfe (30960) for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:31:28 -0400 (EDT) From: M311@aol.com Message-ID: <1c1.1033bcfe.2cbcd61f@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:31:27 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: designing commercial patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Martha, What pattern numbers are you talking about that were pulled. Thanks, Kelly _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 00:46:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E4k4IO030301 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:46:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E4j976002975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:45:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E4j6ZA016315; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:45:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9E4j1ZA016237 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:45:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-116-253-71.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.116.253.71 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 2003 04:45:01 -0000 Message-ID: <02df01c3920d$edd38b80$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: [h-cost] GBACG Pattern Review Site Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:45:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Greater Bay Area Costumer's Guild pattern review site ("The Great Pattern Review") is http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/index.html Martha, you'll see reviews of some of your patterns on the Simplicity page: http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/simplicity.htm - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 01:01:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E51GIO030323 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:01:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E50G76003780 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:00:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E50CkO023388; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:00:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9E509kO023370 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:00:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-116-253-71.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.116.253.71 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 2003 05:00:09 -0000 Message-ID: <02e801c39210$0ad418b0$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F8B4B9F.8050907@fenris.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re. willowy models Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:00:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Liz brought up many of the points that I wanted to -- the reasons I don't buy Big 3 historical patterns are: - the proportions are generally way off. I'm a size 18 on top with a DD bust, and I find that my bust point (a major fitting point) is many inches below where most standard patterns think it should be. Gravity, people! Graded patterns always seem to assume that larger size women are built like refrigerators, rather than accounting for where people usually ARE larger (and it's not the shoulders!). - re: willowy models et al -- what actually puts me off about the photos of (especially) the larger models is that the clothes usually seem to have way too much design ease. Liz put the nail on the head when she said that plus size clothing is usually based on a tent shape -- granted, I know more about historic costuming than the average person, but I'm not going to buy a corset pattern that fits loosely! I do think its fabulous that Simplicity is branching out into nearly period costumes, and Martha's are the best I've seen. However, now that I've learned to draft my own I'm not going back! - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 01:22:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E5MrIO030347 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:22:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E5LC76004666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:21:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E5LAkO003053; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:21:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9E5L8kO002981 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:21:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-116-253-71.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.116.253.71 with login) by smtp1.bt.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 2003 05:21:01 -0000 Message-ID: <000c01c39212$f5c634a0$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031013.193403.-603231.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:21:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Joann's vegetable prints (WAS Not Paying attention......) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Karen, No one said an official yea or nay -- the consensus seemed to be that they are definitely a decent approximation of a late 18th century Indienne (aka chintz) print, but that because the design is a bit busier than the 18th century prints it might work better for 19th century (there was a revival of 18th century prints, including Indiennes, in the 1830s and 1840s). I'd say if you're worried about being completely period, don't use them for either, but if you're happy to be as close as you're going to get with fabric from Joann's, you can use them for either 1780-1800 or 1830-45. I'm personally making an 1830's day dress out of the reddish one. If you (or anyone) would like to compare them to some original Indienne's, here are some links: - 1780s chintz robe a l'anglaise: http://www.kci.or.jp/cgi-bin/collection.cgi?lang=e&path=1780/11-006978_a - 1790s gown: http://www.memorialhall.mass.edu/collection/itempage.jsp?itemid=5 - Dargate Book (1830s printed fabric swatches): http://tinyurl.com/qtzk - 1835 Indian chintz dress (there's a better picture of this, including a closeup of the fabric, in the Kyoto _Costume_ book): http://www.kci.or.jp/cgi-bin/collection.cgi?lang=e&path=1820/07-000908_a - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com ----- Original Message ----- From: > I'm afraid I wasn't paying attention recently when some folks were > discussing the 'vegetable dye' fabrics at JoAnn. Did we actually decide > if they are appropriate for any time periods or are they all hopelessly > modern? The designs look fairly good for Indian design motifs, but I'm > not an expert. A quick summary/refresher would be appreciated! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 01:55:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E5thIO030424 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:55:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E5rt76006170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:53:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E5rrkO017897; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:53:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9E5rokO017851 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:53:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-116-253-71.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.116.253.71 with login) by smtp1.bt.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 2003 05:53:44 -0000 Message-ID: <002001c39217$87654550$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031013.193403.-603231.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> <000c01c39212$f5c634a0$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Joann's vegetable prints (WAS Not Paying attention......) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:53:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, and if anyone would like to see one of these prints, here's an 18th century jacket made by Katherine of koshka-the-cat.com: http://www.koshka-the-cat.com/18c_jacket.html - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 02:20:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E6KOIO005610 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 02:20:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E6Jg76007026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:19:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E6JfpX029000; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:19:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E6JcpX028965 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:19:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A5693A920084; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:19:21 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A56E17E0086; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:19:26 -0500 Message-ID: <024f01c3921b$8cc50400$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re. willowy models Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 02:22:30 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am reading a book about when the willowy models started. The book is about the 1912-1930s fashion designer, Patou by Meredith Etherington-Smith. His heyday was in the mid-1920s. In the book it states that the models were chosen to be thin to distract from the person to the garment. It was to show the draping better. One thing to consider is that certain time periods look better on a heavier person than a thin person. I love to see a pigeon breast gown on a heavier lady. It takes a lot of padding for a thinner woman and it just doesn't look as good as a heavier woman. I also love to see certain Victorian bustle era costumes on a heavier woman. BTW, I love the ladies' club in their suits in the movie The Music Man. I don't think thin women would have ever carried that look off. If I would have worn one of those suits, I would have looked like a walking stick. The big shift to women having a thin silhouette came about in 20s. Patou tried it in the pre-war era and it wasn't the right time. In the book there is much discussion about art and fashion mixing. Premiere artists were designing for the theater and it carried over into the mainstream fashion. If you look at a lot of art deco the women are very elongated. This was part of the look of the style of art. By 1925, the end of the art deco movement, women's fashions were very straight and elongated. Designers Patou and Chanel had a lot to do with this. Patou was shooting more towards an athletic androgynous look. Chanel was simplifying the look of the previous decades. Both silhouettes were very long and lean. I do agree there is a problem with the pattern industry with sizing.... but I think the problem is more with the laughable standardization of clothing manufacturers. They are mis-sizing dresses to make one think that they wear a smaller size than they actually do. Pattern sizes have remained fairly consistent over the years. Their have been changes but very integrated changes. In the past 10 years clothing manufacturers have gone wild with sizes. I don't really see them coming to a standardization between the two parts of the industry. Clothing manufacturers don't want you making your own clothes, and pattern makers don't want you buying clothes. As for the problem with the pattern makers grading the patterns incorrectly for larger sizes... I suggest writing the companies and letting them know of the problems. If enough people let the businesses know of the problem, they may re-think what they are doing. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 02:47:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E6lRIO016191 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 02:47:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E6kb76007910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:46:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E6kapX010994; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:46:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E6kWpX010936 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:46:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (bgp380694bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.16.142]) by webwarren.com (8.12.9/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9E6kMRN010411 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 02:46:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031013173156.030a2a38@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 02:46:21 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Pattern size and designs (long!) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A couple of trends seem to be developing here: (1) "Large" sizes don't fit (2) "Regular" sizes are either too large or too small, but never the same as the RTW clothing size (3) Most "Big 3" patterns have to be simple enough for beginning sewers who don't know squat about alterations and don't have time to learn (4) Hallowe'en, Theatrical/Dramatic, Fantasy, and Reenactment/Recreation costumes are four distinct markets First things, first: There has been a definite "size inflation" in RTW clothing since the 1950's. It accelerated in RTW (but not consistently in Big 3 patterns) when some of the top-name designers started relabeling their sizes in the mid- to late-1980's. As a result, if you measure a Size 10 pair of slacks from Jones New York and compare it to the size chart on the back of any of the "Big 3" patterns, you will find its dimensions are closer to those of a Size 16 or possibly a Size 18. OTOH, if you're wearing $10-Store clothes from Pakistan, your Size 10 slacks probably measure closer to the pattern companies' Size 12 or maybe 14. This poses the following problems: (a) People new to sewing expect to be able to buy the same pattern size as their RTW size and have it fit. (b) Depending on where they buy their clothes, their RTW size -- and therefore the pattern size they expect to buy -- differs. (c) People who have been sewing consistently for a while depend on the pattern companies to keep their sizing relatively constant. Some of this can be ameliorated for experienced sewers using something like Vogue does in the back of their _Vogue Patterns_ magazine: marking each pattern as "Very Close Fit", "Close Fit", "Loose Fit", and "Very Loose Fit", each corresponding to a certain amount of wearing ease. Because I have always had big breasts, I've had more confidence purchasing blouse/jacket/dress patterns that were "Loose Fit" or "Very Loose Fit" at the bustline because it meant I needed less alteration to make the garment fit me. This does not answer the question for new sewers, nor does it really address the "costume" issue -- but it does lead into the next set of issues: body type. Someone with what used to be considered "ideal" measurements of 36-24-36 could be flat-chested and broad-shouldered, with big hips and no butt; OR she could be flat-chested and broad-shouldered, with narrow hips and a big butt, OR she could be narrow-shouldered with a big rib cage, small breasts, no hips or butt, but a protruding abdomen, OR she could be narrow-shouldered and narrow-ribbed, with big breasts and big hips, OR... In short, measurements are hardly "one-size-fits-all". Worse, the larger these measurements get in the absolute, the greater the disparities from one body type to the next. Just using the usual "this is how you figure your bra size" guides, a woman with a 45" bust could be a 44A or a 38FF/G. That corresponds to one helluva big difference in how that top is going to fit! We tend to deal with this in RTW by finding a designer or a line that tends to fit our body types well, and we stick with it. For years I could go into the Women's/Plus Size department of any major department store, go to the "petites" section, look for Elisabeth (the large-size line) or Jones New York Woman, and find clothes that fit me (except for the occasional hem) off-the-rack. OTOH, most of the stuff from Victoria Jones Woman would be wide in the shoulders, low and shallow in the breast, and by the time I found a size large enough not to gap when I moved my arms wide, it would be so large that I could fit my Size 24 mother in the same blouse with me! Do you need to *guess* what brands I was wearing? While we used to be able to do the same thing with patterns to one degree or another, the major companies have become consolidated -- and the addition of designer lines has resulted in some sizing that is not standard for the rest of the pattern company's line -- that I don't think this is the case any more. Add to this that when we're dealing with patterns that are only available through *one* pattern company to begin with, and the frustration level of the average home-sewer (mostly newbies) mounts even further. The other major frustration for the average home sewer is that she most likely has not learned tailoring or pattern-fitting in her Home Ec class -- if, indeed, she learned sewing in Home Ec at all! While _Vogue Patterns_ and _Threads_ magazines have very good tailoring sections, they are often beyond the reach of the average home sewer: either too expensive, or she can't find them at her local Jo-Ann's, or the explanations are so technical that she can't follow them. If she can't follow the instructions, she can't successfully alter her patterns (if, indeed, she figures she has time to do fittings/alterations at all). In this instance, I'd like to bring up a Simplicity publication I'd purchased in my teens and later passed along to a pre-teen sewer who was just getting started. I think it was called "Let Yourself Sew" or "Ready, Set, Sew" or something like that. It was a saddle-bound format, about 80-100 pages in length, and geared towards the pre-teen or teenaged sewer who was still pretty new to the art. It showed her pattern elements in both line drawings and real garments (made from Simplicity patterns, of course!). It showed her how to get her measurements, choose a pattern size, alter the patterns, and put those garments together. It showed her how to mix and match pattern pieces to get the look she wanted, ways to add trims to make her garment unique, what sort of effects could be had by changing the fabric, and so on. It was written at a level where those young women could understand what was being said -- but it did not talk down to them. If Simplicity still publishes something along these lines for pre-teens and teenagers, it might be a good idea for them to consider publishing something similar, but using more mature/adult styles, aimed at the new sewer in her 20's, 30's, 40's, or 50's. It could even go through some basics such as how one's body shape changes as she matures, and how to adapt your patterns to your changing body. It might also be useful if patterns were marked with the body type from which they were drafted (not just the body type(s) on which they would be most flattering) and if models (or line drawings) of varying sizes and body types could be used so that the sewer can get a better idea of what a design will look like on *her*. As far as "costumes" are concerned, we will always have distinct markets. --The Hallowe'en market usually is looking for something spiffy and quick to throw together. It depends heavily on current popular culture (e.g. this year's "Matrix Revisited" costumes, last year's "Moulin Rouge" costumes, etc.) and is more interested in look than in historical accuracy. It is also a segment that very often wants to work on a budget. --The dramatic/theatrical market may or may not be dominated by school plays and community theater groups. These are looking for inexpensive ways to achieve the necessary effect, often in a manner that can be adapted to fit several sizes of actor as the costumes may get recycled from year to year. As long as the effect looks moderately correct (or correct to the untrained eye) on the stage, everything's fine. --The fantasy market sometimes has a degree of overlap with the Hallowe'en market. In addition to Trick-or-Treaters and Hallowe'en parties, this includes parts of the Renfaire market and -- perhaps to an even larger degree -- the LARP (Live Action Role-Playing) market. Some of these folk may worry about visible closures such as zippers versus laces, others may not (I'm not familiar with the market). --The Re-enactment/Re-creation market is the toughest market to sell to. In short, they're h-costumers and future h-costumers. They're looking to re-create extant garments with modern materials -- sometimes with modern methods, sometimes with historical ones. They're the ones that want historical documentation and copious bibliographic references. They're the ones that want to know that, if you've fused together two different extant dresses to create a "new" design, which two dresses they were and why you feel that it's correct to have fused the elements of those two garments. They're the ones that want the historically-accurate underpinnings (with the possible exception of adding a pair of bloomers to medieval/ren garb for modesty's sake) and the historically-correct headgear. They're the ones who b*tch and moan if the color combinations on the pattern-envelope are not correct to the exact year, locale (to within ten arc-minutes longitude and latitude), and socioeconomic class the design is supposed to represent. Many of them expect to have to do muslins and alterations -- but they want those alterations to be done by methods that might have been correct to the time and place of the garments in question. It might help with some of the costumes if Simplicity and the other pattern companies would label the designs for the market or markets that might best make use of these designs, and track the ROIs for each costume market separately. Separate pricing schemes and catalog lifetimes may be required depending upon the complexity of the pattern and that sub-market's usual ROI-per-design. Well, that's this round of observations... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 03:14:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E7EcIO026277 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 03:14:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E7Dw76008671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:13:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E7DvFI022625; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:13:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E7DrFI022559 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:13:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A22113D400B2; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 02:13:37 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2254D501DC; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 02:13:41 -0500 Message-ID: <026901c39223$1ffb9d40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 03:16:44 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Who's the Real Designer X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For a long time, I have stood by the belief that a successful fashion designer is more of a business person than designer. Last night, when reading the Patou book, I ran across a couple of interesting paragraphs, that I thought I would share and put up for discussion on the list. This is from a discussion with Baron de Meyer, a very popular fashion photographer of the 1920s, and fashion designer, Patou. "De Meyer then asked Patou the question that had been debated in some of the drawing rooms of Paris. Did he actually create his models, or was he a couture Svengali, leaching the talents of others, nameless designers? Patou was characterististically straightforward about this. (Penny statement... some of these designers became famous in the next decade) 'I wouldn't know how to design,' he replied. 'I couldn't even if I wanted to, for I can't draw, and a pair of scissors in my hands becomes a dangerous weapon. Consequently, my origination must differ from those other dressmaking establishments and I have a laboratory. Here designers are at work producing sketches both for new models and embroideries.' " Quoted from the book Patou, authored by Meredith Etherington-Smith, 1984 ISBN 0-312-59816-5. Ms. Smith was the editor of "The Magazine" and writer for both Paris and Italian "Vogue Magazine." Patou considered himself a fashion editor... the final say on the editing or refining of the creations was his. He was known for pulling dresses right before a model was to go down the runway, because he didn't like the way it looked on the wearer. He was known to bring 300-600 creations to a showing and weeding them down as the show went on. The book continues to say that most couturiers did not know how to sketch until Dior. I have read another book from the teens and 20s designers, that said that popular illustrators/artists were given an idea of what the designer wanted in a collections. The illustrators would submit croquis (fashion renderings) and the *designers* would choose which ones they liked. Sometimes there were cat fights among the fashion designers as to who could get which illustrators to work for them during the art deco movement. Now where success is with these designers is that they were excellent at marketing themselves to their target markets. Chanel, Patou, Worth, Dior, and Pioret were all great at marketing. Patou was one of the first designers to mass market to the general public. His principle clients that made him popular were tennis and swimming athletes and movie stars. Then he went for the upper middle class all over the world. He contracted wholesale companies in New York City to make his designs. I have a copy of one of these 1922 *models' books* from NYC and Paris, that belonged to a contractor. The contractor would show the book to clients and they would produce the dresses to the client's specs. There are 15 different designer's croquis in the book. Patou by far had the most croquis in it. BTW, just for letting you know Patou was famous for his creations of tennis outfits and one-piece bathing suits. So with this presented... who do you think are the real designers of clothing lines. Open topic... I am interested in what others think. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 03:26:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E7Q2IO028714 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 03:26:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E7PH76009091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:25:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E7PFFI026830; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:25:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E7PCFI026790 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:25:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A4C73B2C0084; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 02:24:55 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A4CB45401CA; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 02:24:59 -0500 Message-ID: <026e01c39224$b3f10160$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.0.0.22.0.20031013173156.030a2a38@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern size and designs (long!) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 03:28:02 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Brenda, Wonderfully stated! Thank you! BTW, I have two of those Simplicity books for teens... a required purchase for my first Home Ec. classes. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 05:01:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E91bIO001803 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 05:01:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E90w76011732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 03:00:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E90t5t001155; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 03:00:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (mta6-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9E90q5t001108 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 03:00:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Imedia5043 ([80.1.30.33]) by mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20031014090051.UWW21828.mta6-svc.business.ntl.com@Imedia5043> for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:00:51 +0100 Message-ID: <001801c39231$a4a2a080$211e0150@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" References: <026901c39223$1ffb9d40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Who's the Real Designer Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:00:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO well having worked with several 'up and comings' recently apart from the odd one I would say daddy's money and the staff who interpret the squiggle (pretty much the same in film and theatre as well). There has been a lot of fuss in teh British press recently re Stella McCartney's talent over daddy's name but as she has some of the finest ateliers behind her we'll never know if she can design or not!! Dawn Ages Of Elegance makers of historical clothing, uniforms and bridalwear http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 > > So with this presented... who do you think are the real designers of > clothing lines. Open topic... I am interested in what others think. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 06:26:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EAQXIO005481 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:26:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EAOW76014958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 04:24:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EAOStG028484; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 04:24:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EAOPtG028463 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 04:24:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host81-129-38-68.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([81.129.38.68] helo=dan) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #23) id 1A9MLo-0000ok-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:24:24 +0100 Message-ID: <001d01c3923d$7181d3e0$44268151@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:25:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Martha's 19th century corset pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I actually bought this pattern, despite having no intention whatsoever of actually making it up. I wanted to contrast it with much earlier corset designs, and I was very impressed with both the pattern and the documentation. I was also impressed by the fact that it specified how to do larger cup sizes; a bug bear of almost all pattern constructions. So, congratulations Martha! And I thought that the lady on the pattern cover was beautiful, and I am nowhere near a size 20. Incidentally, I live in London, England, where patterns are very expensive; I sit drooling over the mails when people are announcing 99c pattern sales. And I've been known to buy half price Buttericks from the US website because even with international shipping it's cheaper than buying them here... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 08:33:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ECXjIO006268 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:33:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ECVm76022020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:31:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ECVd1T025259; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:31:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ECVb1T025221 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:31:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02654 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 07:55:22 -0500 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 07:55:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern size and designs (long!) In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20031013173156.030a2a38@earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Brenda Bell wrote: > A couple of trends seem to be developing here: What a great summary! Perhaps you could send this to Simplicity? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 08:39:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ECdbIO006345 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:39:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ECc176022386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ECc11T028168; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ECbv1T028138 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:37:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www20.ureach.com (www20.ureach.com [172.16.2.48]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA19137 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:37:56 -0400 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by www20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA16809; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:37:56 -0400 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:37:56 -0400 Message-Id: <200310141237.IAA16809@www20.ureach.com> Received: from [68.158.58.102] by www20.ureach.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:37:56 GMT To: "sewinggoddess@att.net" From: Teena Kessinger Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-vsuite-type: e X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ooh and the men's Regency stuff! You see the Georgian and Victorian sometimes but rarely the Regency. I have some gowns for myself, but have no idea how to do something for my husband.... not that we have anywhere to wear it now that we live in Atlanta... but still, I want it! Teena ---- On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, sewinggoddess@att.net (sewinggoddess@att.net) wrote: > OOh, wait one more for the pattern wish list! > > I would dearly love to see a great Men's Cavalier outfit, one done in a simple style and another one > with all the lace > trimmings. And a decent CAvalier overcoat too, please. I'm tired of redrafting the one style I have > made to fit all the > gentlemen who want it. > > Thanks! > > I just finished the Corset pattern with the bust gores for a friend and it fit her beautifully! > Did you realize that the > instructions *never* say what to do with the waist stay once it's " pinned in place"? And I've been > sewing for 25 years now > and I must say that this one took some time to figure out. Definitely not for the weekend sewer. But > I enjoyed the challenge! > > Crissy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 08:55:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ECtAIO007027 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:55:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ECrE76023144 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:53:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ECrC1T005192; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:53:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ECr91T005148 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:53:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oldwaylane.net (dialup-171.75.43.11.Dial1.Washington1.Level3.net [171.75.43.11]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA23027 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 05:53:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3F8BF229.80107@oldwaylane.net> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:55:05 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume pattern wish list- Danish patterns References: <3F8B7C6E.5070804@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <3F8B7C6E.5070804@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran Grimble wrote: > Thanks to you and Robin. > > I bugged Fred Struthers (Books on Cloth) to look into the Danish > patterns. He orders a lot of foreign publications and usually manages to > overcome inguistic and payment problems. I don't know if I'd want them > or not; but Fred is potentially interested in selling them anyway. oo! if he can get them, I'd be interested in buying them. I've lost his contact info,though. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 08:55:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ECtOIO007031 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:55:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ECrR76023169 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:53:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ECrR1T005339; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:53:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [63.251.216.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ECrN1T005310 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:53:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from megan2 (pcp793473pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [68.50.52.14]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4DB515C69 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 05:53:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costume pattern wish list- Danish patterns Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:58:06 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20031013233345.A32459-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I forgot to add, they are now 98 DKK each, about $15 to $15.50 with shipping. I bought two of each, figuring if I was paying all that shipping I may as well have a spare. A friend has already spoken for the extras. -Megan -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Drea Leed Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 11:35 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costume pattern wish list- Danish patterns Wow!!! Thanks so much for the pictures, and the contact info! Medieval scandinavian dress is not my personal period of interest, but I know several people who will jump up and down with excitement when they see these. Drea On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Megan M. wrote: > A friend of mine was at the museum last June, and brought back two patterns, > alas, not for me. So I started trying to get them then. Here is a > temporary link to the pattern covers to show you what they look like: > http://www.benchite.com/patterns_from_the_national_museu.htm I bought these > patterns sight unseen as they are not on the web anywhere. They have five > different clothing patterns at the moment. 1. The Bocksten Man (mantel, > struthatta, kjortel, hosor and skor, which translates into cape, hood, > dress, leggings and shoes, I think),2. Women's dress and hood, that dress > has two gores in front and two on each side, and elbow length sleeves. 3. > Man's gown and hood, the one with the buttons down the front 4. a second > man's gown and hood, the gown just has two gores each side, and 5. a pattern > for long and short hose. The hose are "adult size". All the garments these > were based on were found in Herjolfsnes, Greenland in 1921, except the > man's pullover gown without buttons which was found in 1840 near the > churchyard according to the pattern information. > > Sizing: > Note, these are all garment measurements, not the wearer's measurements! > Hose are in small 38/39 (5/6), medium 40/41 (7/7.5), large 42/43 (8/9), and > X-large 44/45 (10/11). The small are the original size, measuring 38.5 > inches long and 19.75 inches around the thigh. The XL measure 41 inches in > length and 22 inches around the thigh. The short hose only come in small, > medium, and large. > > Woman's gown: > Size small, medium and large, with small being the original size. Small > lists bust 40 inches, sleeve length 12 inches, dress length 48 inches, while > large lists bust 46.5 inches, sleeve length 12.5 inches, length 57.5 inches. > > Man's gown with buttons: > Size small, medium and large. Size small chest 53.5 inches, large 63 > inches. Sleeve length 24.5 to 26 inches, length 40 to 43 3/8 inches. > > Man's pullover gown: > SML, Chest 43 3/8 inches to 52 3/4 inches, sleeve length 22.5-25 5/8 inches, > garment length 43 3/8 to 49 5/8 inches. > > I have no idea on the Bocksten man- it is all in Danish and there are no > tables of measurements. I think that one may have to be altered to fit. > When I get into the pattern perhaps I'll have more info on it. The gown > appears to be the one with the gores starting at the waist instead of at > the armpit like the other gowns. Perhaps Bjarne can help me out here with > translation, after I get the text typed in. > > Contact information: > The National Museum > Frederiksholms Kanal 12 > 1220 København K > +45 3347 3808 > Email: butik@natmus.dk > > I called them repeatedly, and it took over 2 months for them to send me the > pro forma invoice. They do not do credit cards over the phone, so they send > you the invoice, you send it back with credit card info, then they will ship > when they have the money. It worked out to just over $15 per pattern > including shipping when all was said and done. If I had seen them first, I > might not have purchased all of them, but I'm also glad I did. Anyone who > can draft their own patterns probably does not need these, but they include > a little bit of info about the garments they are drafted from, including > where the garments are now, what they are made of , the weave of the cloth, > thread count, etc. A nice resource. > Hope this helps, > -Megan > > Fran had written: > So how did you obtain the patterns? Who did you contact at the museum, > and what was the procedure? Is this a book or a pattern, and what is it > called? > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 09:47:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EDl9IO008028 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:47:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EDZg76025565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 07:35:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EDZcPY027350; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 07:35:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EDZbPY027336 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 07:35:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thecount.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.22]) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A9PKq-0004aX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:35:36 -0700 Message-ID: <2431642.1066138536567.JavaMail.root@thecount.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:35:35 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Christine Krebs-Bonder To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] pattern wish list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My Pattern Wish List... hmmm. Let's work backwards: Twentieth Century I'd love to have more 1920s and early 1930s patterns available. Not just the flapper dresses or evening wear but day dresses, tea gowns, tennis or other athletic clothes, and proper period lingerie (modern bras just don't cut it if you want the right line). I bought the Simplicity "Chicago"/flapper pattern this past weekend, but haven't had a chance to do more than glance at it yet. I'd also love to get hold of gentlemen's patterns for the same era that AREN'T "zoot suits." There's some outfits described in Fitzgerald's "The Great Gatsby" that I'd like to create... Nineteenth Century I'd love to see children's and young ladies(teen age) patterns for everyday dress and "Sunday Best". My 14 year old niece wants me to help her make a few dresses based on Bennett's "A Little Princess" and Louisa May Alcott's "Eight Cousins" (She just got her "sewing machine license" in Home Ec class and is very enthusiastic. If anyone has an extra copy of that Simplicity book on learning to sew, alter and fit patterns they'd like to sell me so I can give it to my niece, please contact me off-list). Renaissance Europe How about a later Italian Renn circa 1570 - 1600? Patterns for hats and headresses from various periods? Yorkist style dresses that have pattern pieces for different sleeves? And my last wish list item: I'd like it if the backs of pattern envelopes had the line drawings for both the front and backs of the garment, especially when the photograph is of a coat, dress, trousers, etc. done up in black or dark fabric thatmakes it difficult to see the details of line (The Simplicity pattern for the Matrix Revisited coats comes to mind. I got yelled at in the store by a clerk because I pulled the instruction insert out of the envelope (I did put it back) so I could actually see if the front panels were one big panel or several panels). Christine in Dayton >^..^< _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 09:52:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EDqQIO008041 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:52:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EDfK76025853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 07:41:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EDfJPY000691; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 07:41:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EDfGPY000553 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 07:41:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a253.in-tch.com [66.62.107.53]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9EDKYH04142 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 07:20:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F8BFD89.F1113E7C@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 07:43:37 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] toile tailleur References: <000d01c39197$e1b7bc70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <54568.162.119.64.111.1066065216.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Speaking of Greenberg and Hammer, does anyone have their website/contact info? I managed to lose my bookmark for them.... Thanks, Sue dch@inreach.com wrote: > > P.S. I know that Greenberg & Hammer in New York carries it but I couldn't > find it at their online store. If you request a catalog, it is in the > interfacings section. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 10:07:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EE7PIO008063 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:07:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EE5O76027918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:05:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EE5MB8017765; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:05:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EE5GB8017652 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:05:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by scanmail1.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:59:14 -0700 Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A13247C0286; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:59:14 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (24-117-44-29.cpe.cableone.net [24.117.44.29]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:59:14 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] toile tailleur Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:04:13 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c3925c$0ccddb50$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3F8BFD89.F1113E7C@in-tch.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-117-44-29.cpe.cableone.net [24.117.44.29] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO www.greenberg-hammer.com -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sue Clemenger Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 8:44 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] toile tailleur Speaking of Greenberg and Hammer, does anyone have their website/contact info? I managed to lose my bookmark for them.... Thanks, Sue dch@inreach.com wrote: > > P.S. I know that Greenberg & Hammer in New York carries it but I couldn't > find it at their online store. If you request a catalog, it is in the > interfacings section. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 10:11:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EEB9IO008092 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:11:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EE8q76028174 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:08:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EE8pB8020007; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:08:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14006.mail.yahoo.com (web14006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9EE8eB8019907 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:08:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031014140839.71992.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:08:39 BST Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:08:39 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F8B4FC4.3060201@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] PATTERN STORAGE X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cheap pattern storage. If you have access to boxes of paper for copy machines, they make great pattern storage boxes. They're fairly sturdy and don't collapse if you stack one on the other. I'm sure someone out there has more patterns than I do and I'm up to 2 boxes. ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 10:41:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EEf5IO008310 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:41:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EEcp76000892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:38:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EEclB8012180; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:38:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from solomon.io.com (solomon.io.com [199.170.88.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EEchB9012119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:38:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by solomon.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9EEdZ2Z026616 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:39:35 -0500 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h9EEdS6s014969 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:39:28 -0500 Received: from 199.50.29.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:39:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <20894.199.50.29.40.1066142368.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:39:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] PATTERN STORAGE From: "Chiara" To: In-Reply-To: <20031014140839.71992.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3F8B4FC4.3060201@thibault.org> <20031014140839.71992.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah, I had to upgrade to the expensive roll away drawers. The clear ones. I am up to 7 of the 4.5 foot tall ones with 5 drawers. One is nothing but vintage and non vintage glove patterns and a few other vintage patterns. The other is nothing but specialtiy costume patterns like Margo's stuff. The others are commercial costume patterns and regular clothing patterns for the hubby and kids. I got them at SAM's for 19.00 each. At the container store they got from 29.99 to 39.99 The only reason I went with this is cause our copier boxes went out after 12 years of use so they are definitely a good alternative! :) Chiara > Cheap pattern storage. If you have access to boxes of > paper for copy machines, they make great pattern > storage boxes. They're fairly sturdy and don't > collapse if you stack one on the other. I'm sure > someone out there has more patterns than I do and I'm > up to 2 boxes. > > ===== > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 10:50:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EEopIO008408 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:50:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EEm776001665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:48:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EEm5B8019417; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:48:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EEm1B8019353 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be25.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.37]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 27DE8262CCF for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:47:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004101c39262$87376270$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume pattern wish list- Danish patterns Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:50:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Megan. Off cause i shall help you with danish translation, go ahead. When i was at a museum in Sweden (Kulturen in Lund), i observed they had a lot of different medieval patterns. But it is not my period, so i did not notice further. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 4:49 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costume pattern wish list- Danish patterns > A friend of mine was at the museum last June, and brought back two patterns, > alas, not for me. So I started trying to get them then. Here is a > temporary link to the pattern covers to show you what they look like: > http://www.benchite.com/patterns_from_the_national_museu.htm I bought these > patterns sight unseen as they are not on the web anywhere. They have five > different clothing patterns at the moment. 1. The Bocksten Man (mantel, > struthatta, kjortel, hosor and skor, which translates into cape, hood, > dress, leggings and shoes, I think),2. Women's dress and hood, that dress > has two gores in front and two on each side, and elbow length sleeves. 3. > Man's gown and hood, the one with the buttons down the front 4. a second > man's gown and hood, the gown just has two gores each side, and 5. a pattern > for long and short hose. The hose are "adult size". All the garments these > were based on were found in Herjolfsnes, Greenland in 1921, except the > man's pullover gown without buttons which was found in 1840 near the > churchyard according to the pattern information. > > Sizing: > Note, these are all garment measurements, not the wearer's measurements! > Hose are in small 38/39 (5/6), medium 40/41 (7/7.5), large 42/43 (8/9), and > X-large 44/45 (10/11). The small are the original size, measuring 38.5 > inches long and 19.75 inches around the thigh. The XL measure 41 inches in > length and 22 inches around the thigh. The short hose only come in small, > medium, and large. > > Woman's gown: > Size small, medium and large, with small being the original size. Small > lists bust 40 inches, sleeve length 12 inches, dress length 48 inches, while > large lists bust 46.5 inches, sleeve length 12.5 inches, length 57.5 inches. > > Man's gown with buttons: > Size small, medium and large. Size small chest 53.5 inches, large 63 > inches. Sleeve length 24.5 to 26 inches, length 40 to 43 3/8 inches. > > Man's pullover gown: > SML, Chest 43 3/8 inches to 52 3/4 inches, sleeve length 22.5-25 5/8 inches, > garment length 43 3/8 to 49 5/8 inches. > > I have no idea on the Bocksten man- it is all in Danish and there are no > tables of measurements. I think that one may have to be altered to fit. > When I get into the pattern perhaps I'll have more info on it. The gown > appears to be the one with the gores starting at the waist instead of at > the armpit like the other gowns. Perhaps Bjarne can help me out here with > translation, after I get the text typed in. > > Contact information: > The National Museum > Frederiksholms Kanal 12 > 1220 København K > +45 3347 3808 > Email: butik@natmus.dk > > I called them repeatedly, and it took over 2 months for them to send me the > pro forma invoice. They do not do credit cards over the phone, so they send > you the invoice, you send it back with credit card info, then they will ship > when they have the money. It worked out to just over $15 per pattern > including shipping when all was said and done. If I had seen them first, I > might not have purchased all of them, but I'm also glad I did. Anyone who > can draft their own patterns probably does not need these, but they include > a little bit of info about the garments they are drafted from, including > where the garments are now, what they are made of , the weave of the cloth, > thread count, etc. A nice resource. > Hope this helps, > -Megan > > Fran had written: > So how did you obtain the patterns? Who did you contact at the museum, > and what was the procedure? Is this a book or a pattern, and what is it > called? > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 10:51:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EEoxIO008413 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:51:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EEmV76001701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:48:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EEmSB8019771; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:48:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14006.mail.yahoo.com (web14006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9EEmCB8019509 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:48:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031014144812.82950.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:48:12 BST Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:48:12 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We need to get Andrea Schewe on this list. Snh snh snh. Unfortunately 1:00pm is when people are at work. Otherwise, I'd love to listen in. --- Martha Kelly wrote: > If you want to catch the ear of the two ladies who > choose which patterns are > developed at Simplicity, come to the live chat this > Thursday at 1:00 PM > Eastern time. Abbie and Betsy will both be there. > Just go to the Simplicity > web site. I could (and will) pass along your > suggestions, but it will be > more effective if you talk to them directly. > Express your size concerns, > fitting problems, and what sort of patterns you’d > like to see in the future. > They really will be interested. Andrea Schewe is the > guest speaker and she > does most of the Ren Faire costumes. > ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 10:57:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EEveIO008465 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:57:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EEuN76002543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:56:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EEuI3Y026644; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:56:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EEuD3Y026553 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:56:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip72.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.72]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 400BF6A498 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 07:51:16 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 07:56:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern size and designs (long!) Message-ID: <3F8BAC32.23656.D2D5ABC@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <6.0.0.22.0.20031013173156.030a2a38@earthlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In this instance, I'd like to bring up a Simplicity publication I'd > purchased in my teens and later passed along to a pre-teen sewer who > was just getting started. I think it was called "Let Yourself Sew" or > "Ready, Set, Sew" or something like that. It was a saddle-bound > format, about 80-100 pages in length, and geared towards the pre-teen > or teenaged sewer who was still pretty new to the art. It showed her > pattern elements in both line drawings and real garments (made from > Simplicity patterns, of course!). It showed her how to get her > measurements, choose a pattern size, alter the patterns, and put those > garments together. It showed her how to mix and match pattern pieces > to get the look she wanted, ways to add trims to make her garment > unique, what sort of effects could be had by changing the fabric, and > so on. It was written at a level where those young women could > understand what was being said -- but it did not talk down to them. The pity is that this *is* marketed toward teens but most new sewers, especially those getting into historical costuming, are often at the same level. But they wouldn't be caught dead or wouldn't think of getting a book marketed for teens. I actually started working on a manual of this sort for reenactors (which was going to be accompanied by a video) but I found that I just don't have the kind of time it takes to do that level of project. (And then the people who had offered to help me with it had been cutting me out of the loop, and then *they* dropped it.) It sure would be wonderful if we could get a commercial quality product of this sort geared to the historical costumer. It would sure make their lives easier. (And ours, since we could spend more time teaching the upper level sewers and not quite so many of the new-to- sewing people.) But this type would have to come out of the historical community because of it's "limited audience." > If Simplicity still publishes something along these lines for > pre-teens and teenagers, it might be a good idea for them to consider > publishing something similar, but using more mature/adult styles, > aimed at the new sewer in her 20's, 30's, 40's, or 50's. It could even > go through some basics such as how one's body shape changes as she > matures, and how to adapt your patterns to your changing body. Exactly. And maybe we'd see a resurgence of home sewing. Over the years I've been noticing that there are fewer and fewer people sewing. The sewing machine people have complained about it (selling less) and we've noticed it (fewer fabric stores and those remaining are segueing into craft stores) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 11:03:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EF3vIO008518 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:03:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EEr676002174 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:53:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EEr1B8023657; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EEquB8023558 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:52:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be25.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.37]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 0F8025EE1BE for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:52:54 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004e01c39263$3855f1c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <026901c39223$1ffb9d40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Who's the Real Designer Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:55:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The real artists are those who work backstage in the sewing rooms. All the nameless embroiderers, all the nameless fantastic drapers and all the fantastic couturiers. As often, it also is those who gets badly payed. I hate that system, it is so injustice, hate it hate it hate it!!! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 9:16 AM Subject: [h-cost] Who's the Real Designer > For a long time, I have stood by the belief that a successful fashion > designer is more of a business person than designer. Last night, when > reading the Patou book, I ran across a couple of interesting paragraphs, > that I thought I would share and put up for discussion on the list. > > This is from a discussion with Baron de Meyer, a very popular fashion > photographer of the 1920s, and fashion designer, Patou. > > "De Meyer then asked Patou the question that had been debated in some of the > drawing rooms of Paris. Did he actually create his models, or was he a > couture Svengali, leaching the talents of others, nameless designers? Patou > was characterististically straightforward about this. (Penny statement... > some of these designers became famous in the next decade) > > 'I wouldn't know how to design,' he replied. 'I couldn't even if I wanted > to, for I can't draw, and a pair of scissors in my hands becomes a dangerous > weapon. Consequently, my origination must differ from those other > dressmaking establishments and I have a laboratory. Here designers are at > work producing sketches both for new models and embroideries.' " > > Quoted from the book Patou, authored by Meredith Etherington-Smith, 1984 > ISBN 0-312-59816-5. Ms. Smith was the editor of "The Magazine" and writer > for both Paris and Italian "Vogue Magazine." > > Patou considered himself a fashion editor... the final say on the editing or > refining of the creations was his. He was known for pulling dresses right > before a model was to go down the runway, because he didn't like the way it > looked on the wearer. He was known to bring 300-600 creations to a showing > and weeding them down as the show went on. > > The book continues to say that most couturiers did not know how to sketch > until Dior. I have read another book from the teens and 20s designers, that > said that popular illustrators/artists were given an idea of what the > designer wanted in a collections. The illustrators would submit croquis > (fashion renderings) and the *designers* would choose which ones they liked. > Sometimes there were cat fights among the fashion designers as to who could > get which illustrators to work for them during the art deco movement. > > Now where success is with these designers is that they were excellent at > marketing themselves to their target markets. Chanel, Patou, Worth, Dior, > and Pioret were all great at marketing. Patou was one of the first > designers to mass market to the general public. His principle clients that > made him popular were tennis and swimming athletes and movie stars. Then he > went for the upper middle class all over the world. He contracted > wholesale companies in New York City to make his designs. I have a copy of > one of these 1922 *models' books* from NYC and Paris, that belonged to a > contractor. The contractor would show the book to clients and they would > produce the dresses to the client's specs. There are 15 different > designer's croquis in the book. Patou by far had the most croquis in it. > > BTW, just for letting you know Patou was famous for his creations of tennis > outfits and one-piece bathing suits. > > So with this presented... who do you think are the real designers of > clothing lines. Open topic... I am interested in what others think. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 11:04:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EF4XIO008526 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:04:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EF2W76003282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:02:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EF2V3Y002792; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:02:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EF2C3Y002516 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:02:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip72.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.72]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3D6A6A498 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:02:08 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:02:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] pattern wish list Message-ID: <3F8BAD97.25297.D32CC3A@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <2431642.1066138536567.JavaMail.root@thecount.psp.pas.earthlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > And my last wish list item: I'd like it if the backs of pattern > envelopes had the line drawings for both the front and backs of the > garment, especially when the photograph is of a coat, dress, trousers, > etc. done up in black or dark fabric thatmakes it difficult to see the > details of line (The Simplicity pattern for the Matrix Revisited coats > comes to mind. Oh, definitely. One of my frustrations with patterns is that I have to pull them out to see what the pattern actually looks like. While I like the pretty photograph or artists rendering of what the dress is supposed to look like, I feel that it doesn't really give me the same information (because of the stylization or the things that Christine mentioned or because of body parts covering just the area I want to see) as the line drawings we *do* (thankfully) get for the back. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 11:05:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EF5QIO008536 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:05:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EF3F76003377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:03:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EF3D3Y003378; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:03:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14004.mail.yahoo.com (web14004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9EF3A3Y003327 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:03:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031014150308.88519.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:03:08 BST Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:03:08 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] pattern wish list To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <2431642.1066138536567.JavaMail.root@thecount.psp.pas.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Something else I'd like to see are some patterns for men and women circa 1830. Occasionally some events come up on reenactment for the Texas Revolution (No Davy Crockett probably didn't wear a coonskin cap) and we mostly make do with hastily camoflaged modern clothes. I'd love to do more in depth research on that, but so far I haven't had the time. ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 11:09:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EF9RIO008573 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:09:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EF2I76003250 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:02:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EF2E3Y002551; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:02:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EF2A3Y002484 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:02:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip72.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.72]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DB466A4BA for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:02:07 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:02:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] PATTERN STORAGE Message-ID: <3F8BAD97.27845.D32CD25@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20031014140839.71992.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3F8B4FC4.3060201@thibault.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Cheap pattern storage. If you have access to boxes of > paper for copy machines, they make great pattern > storage boxes. They're fairly sturdy and don't > collapse if you stack one on the other. I'm sure > someone out there has more patterns than I do and I'm > up to 2 boxes. And one of the nice things is that if they have acid/lignen free paper in them to begin with, usually the company uses a acid free box as well (so as not to damage the paper). I generally use comic book boxes. Just the right size for most patterns (although the really big ones I have to put in sizeways) and they are definitely acid free (so that my patterns and the like last longer.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 11:44:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EFiRIO008858 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:44:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EFfX76007294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:41:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EFfLVD008451; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:41:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EFfEVD008281 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:41:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a233.in-tch.com [66.62.107.33]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9EFKVH01550 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:20:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F8C19A7.AB86CADF@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:43:35 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] toile tailleur References: <000001c3925c$0ccddb50$0201a8c0@kimathlon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks! --sue Kim Baird wrote: > > www.greenberg-hammer.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On Behalf Of Sue Clemenger > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 8:44 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] toile tailleur > > Speaking of Greenberg and Hammer, does anyone have their website/contact > info? I managed to lose my bookmark for them.... > Thanks, > Sue > > dch@inreach.com wrote: > > > > > P.S. I know that Greenberg & Hammer in New York carries it but I > couldn't > > find it at their online store. If you request a catalog, it is in the > > interfacings section. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 11:45:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EFjMIO008865 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:45:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EFhM76007516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:43:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EFhKVD010198; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:43:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EFhGVD010072 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:43:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a233.in-tch.com [66.62.107.33]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9EFMYH02681 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:22:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F8C1A22.6ADFB799@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:45:38 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] PATTERN STORAGE References: <20031014140839.71992.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah, but keep them *away* from your cats! Mine think those boxes are the coolest variations on scratching posts that they've ever seen! --sue, too much stuff, not enough room ;o) Catalina Sanabria Rosado wrote: > > Cheap pattern storage. If you have access to boxes of > paper for copy machines, they make great pattern > storage boxes. They're fairly sturdy and don't > collapse if you stack one on the other. I'm sure > someone out there has more patterns than I do and I'm > up to 2 boxes. > > ===== > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 12:00:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EG0EIO008912 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:00:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EFwB76009082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:58:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EFw94E022772; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:58:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.224]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EFw64E022683 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:58:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Martha (24-90-83-116.nyc.rr.com [24.90.83.116]) with SMTP id h9EFw4gu005677 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:58:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Martha Kelly" To: "h-costume" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:58:05 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] You have the ear of Simplicity X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You folks have overwhelmed me in the past couple of days. What a lot of thoughtful suggestions. I wish I had time to respond to every one right now, but I'm trying to meet a deadline and I have to stick to the cutting table. I called my friend Betsy at Simplicity this morning. I'm not sure of her exact title, but she's the in-house designer and head of the craft department. She rides herd on all the free-lancers, too. I told her about all the interesting input on h-costume and she wants to read the transcript. Since she isn't a computer person, I'll have to sacrifice a few trees to print it all out. Betsy and Abbie are the two people you should talk to about policy change if you can possibly get to Thursday's chat. Requests will be more effective if directly from you all and not filtered through me. The most wonderful person to deal with if you're looking for an out of print pattern or a fabric you'd like to source - or just about anything - is Sue Fleck. She's out in the Michigan office and I've never met her in person, but she's great by e-mail. And please let her know if any of the sewing directions are vague, confusing, or just plain wrong. Hopefully it can be corrected in the next printing and her staff will be able to help people who call in. Sue Fleck, Consumer Relations Manager (Simplicity, New Look, Conso, Wrights) Susan Fleck [SFleck@Simplicity.com] Toll free line 888-588-2700 By the way, Betsy tells me they keep the patterns that have been pulled from the catalogue out in Michigan and, as long as the supply holds out, they'll gladly sell them. They don't have the ability to print on demand at this time, so they have to crank up the huge presses to print a new run of patterns. This, of course, they can't do unless they plan to reissue the tissue. The sizing is always a fuss. I have a complete "official" size chart, not just bust, waist, hips. I make a (Simplicity) size ten outfit to be photographed and they grade up and down from my size ten pattern. I think if people knew what exact measurements the pattern was meant to fit, they'd have a better idea of how to alter it. I've mentioned this several times to them and gotten no interest. Does anybody agree/disagree with me? I think they could print a huge chart in the catalogue, or that little magazine they sell in the spring so people could take it home with them. Would that help? You know there's no hope of coming up with a highly shaped period bodice that doesn't have to be fit in muslin to the actual person. Whew! And I said I had to stick to the cutting table. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 12:15:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EGFKIO008943 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:15:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EGDt76010399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:13:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EGDr4E004409; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:13:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EGDm4E004312 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:13:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip72.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.72]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D4856A739 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:13:46 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:14:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] You have the ear of Simplicity Message-ID: <3F8BBE63.17152.D74686E@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The sizing is always a fuss. I have a complete "official" size chart, > not just bust, waist, hips. I make a (Simplicity) size ten outfit to > be photographed and they grade up and down from my size ten pattern. I > think if people knew what exact measurements the pattern was meant to > fit, they'd have a better idea of how to alter it. I've mentioned this > several times to them and gotten no interest. Does anybody > agree/disagree with me? I think they could print a huge chart in the > catalogue, or that little magazine they sell in the spring so people > could take it home with them. Would that help? You mean the pattern books don't have that chart anymore? That used to be a feature. But then, they've also removed most (if not all) of the fitting patterns so it doesn't really surprise me too much that they have removed the sizing charts. (I don't really look at that sort of thing anymore. I've been sewing for over 35 years and only had to get a "new chart" once in that time, when they had the big pattern size change across the board.) > Whew! And I said I had to stick to the cutting table. Yes, please do not let us interfere with your production of those wonderful patterns. We really like them and would appreciate seeing more from you! Back to work with you! Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 12:42:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EGg3IO009013 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:42:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EGPW7I011634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:27:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EGD14E003413; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hiram.io.com (root@hiram.io.com [199.170.88.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EG5Z4E029527 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:05:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by hiram.io.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9EG5b903619 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:05:37 -0500 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h9EG6L6s000857 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:06:21 -0500 Received: from 199.50.29.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:06:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <48151.199.50.29.40.1066147581.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:06:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] PATTERN STORAGE From: "Chiara" To: In-Reply-To: <3F8C1AEB.19BA4350@in-tch.com> References: <3F8B4FC4.3060201@thibault.org> <20894.199.50.29.40.1066142368.squirrel@webmail.io.com> <3F8C1AEB.19BA4350@in-tch.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nah, I bet I am only the tip of the iceberg of the who's who on this list. Especially Margo. I bet that girl has hundreds of patterns just for researching slopes! Margo? Not to mention Penny who has a library to maintain for those of us that use it for those really pretty things she has been finding that are anywhere from 75 to 100 years old. :) Have you all seen her new embroidery pattern collection?!? Chiara > Holy cr@p!, girl... > I think you may, de facto, be Queen of Pattern Stashes! > I have one smallish Rubbermaid tub of patterns, plus a bunch of my own > hand-drafted patterns made from canvas scraps (I used to work at a > canvas place), which hang from special hangers in my closet. My fabric > stash, on the other hand....;-D > --sue > > Chiara wrote: >> >> Yeah, I had to upgrade to the expensive roll away drawers. The clear >> ones. I am up to 7 of the 4.5 foot tall ones with 5 drawers. One is >> nothing but vintage and non vintage glove patterns and a few other >> vintage patterns. The other is nothing but specialtiy costume patterns >> like Margo's stuff. The others are commercial costume patterns and >> regular clothing patterns for the hubby and kids. >> >> I got them at SAM's for 19.00 each. At the container store they got >> from 29.99 to 39.99 >> >> The only reason I went with this is cause our copier boxes went out >> after 12 years of use so they are definitely a good alternative! :) >> >> Chiara >> >> > Cheap pattern storage. If you have access to boxes of >> > paper for copy machines, they make great pattern >> > storage boxes. They're fairly sturdy and don't >> > collapse if you stack one on the other. I'm sure >> > someone out there has more patterns than I do and I'm >> > up to 2 boxes. >> > >> > ===== >> > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit >> > >> > ________________________________________________________________________ >> Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE >> Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk >> > _______________________________________________ >> > h-costume mailing list >> > h-costume@mail.indra.com >> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 12:43:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EGh1IO009017 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:43:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EGau76012695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:36:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EGaq4E025922; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:36:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EGae4E025769 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:36:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A625B0031A; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:36:53 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pattern size and designs (long!) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:36:53 -0500 Message-ID: <000201c39271$6061fca0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-reply-to: <026e01c39224$b3f10160$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Any idea if they are still being printed? Or where I might find a copy? Or title and ISBN for ILL? I'm feeling the desire to expand my skill set, and "Intro to Altering" sounds like and excellent place to start! Mille Grazie! Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Penny Ladnier Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 2:28 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern size and designs (long!) Brenda, Wonderfully stated! Thank you! BTW, I have two of those Simplicity books for teens... a required purchase for my first Home Ec. classes. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 12:47:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EGlLIO009028 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:47:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EGjL76013461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:45:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EGjEuc003910; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:45:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hiram.io.com (root@hiram.io.com [199.170.88.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EGj0uc003673 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by hiram.io.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9EG9L903736 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:09:21 -0500 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h9EGA46s006322 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:10:04 -0500 Received: from 199.50.29.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:10:04 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <38081.199.50.29.40.1066147804.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:10:04 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] You have the ear of Simplicity From: "Franchesca Havas" To: In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OH! The official sizing chart would be great! The one they have now is so old and out of date. Maybe you can just make them think you are updating that one instead? :) Chiara > You folks have overwhelmed me in the past couple of days. What a lot of > thoughtful suggestions. I wish I had time to respond to every one right > now, but I'm trying to meet a deadline and I have to stick to the > cutting table. > > I called my friend Betsy at Simplicity this morning. I'm not sure of > her exact title, but she's the in-house designer and head of the craft > department. She rides herd on all the free-lancers, too. I told her > about all the interesting input on h-costume and she wants to read the > transcript. Since she isn't a computer person, I'll have to sacrifice a > few trees to print it all out. > > Betsy and Abbie are the two people you should talk to about policy > change if you can possibly get to Thursday's chat. Requests will be more > effective if directly from you all and not filtered through me. > > The most wonderful person to deal with if you're looking for an out of > print pattern or a fabric you'd like to source - or just about anything > - is Sue Fleck. She's out in the Michigan office and I've never met her > in person, but she's great by e-mail. And please let her know if any of > the sewing directions are vague, confusing, or just plain wrong. > Hopefully it can be corrected in the next printing and her staff will be > able to help people who call in. > > Sue Fleck, > Consumer Relations Manager (Simplicity, New Look, Conso, Wrights) > Susan Fleck [SFleck@Simplicity.com] > Toll free line 888-588-2700 > > By the way, Betsy tells me they keep the patterns that have been pulled > from the catalogue out in Michigan and, as long as the supply holds out, > they'll gladly sell them. They don't have the ability to print on > demand at this time, so they have to crank up the huge presses to print > a new run of patterns. This, of course, they can't do unless they plan > to reissue the tissue. > > The sizing is always a fuss. I have a complete "official" size chart, > not just bust, waist, hips. I make a (Simplicity) size ten outfit to be > photographed and they grade up and down from my size ten pattern. I > think if people knew what exact measurements the pattern was meant to > fit, they'd have a better idea of how to alter it. I've mentioned this > several times to them and gotten no interest. Does anybody > agree/disagree with me? I think they could print a huge chart in the > catalogue, or that little magazine they sell in the spring so people > could take it home with them. Would that help? You know there's no hope > of coming up with a highly shaped period bodice that doesn't have to be > fit in muslin to the actual person. > > Whew! And I said I had to stick to the cutting table. > > Martha > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 12:52:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EGqpIO009037 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:52:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EGom76013941 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:50:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EGokuc008984; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:50:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EGoguc008917 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:50:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.219]) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A9SNd-0001ZT-00; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:50:41 -0700 Message-ID: <24354077.1066150241241.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:50:39 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Christine Krebs-Bonder To: Historical Costume , h-costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] You have the ear of Simplicity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would definitely prefer to have a table of all the measurements! I'd buy it as a separate publication or in the magazine. Having those measurements would definitely caude me to buy mopre patterns and make them up because I'd be able to figure out what I needed to do to make them fit me. Christine in Dayton >^..^< -----Original Message----- From: Martha Kelly Sent: Oct 14, 2003 11:58 AM To: h-costume Subject: [h-cost] You have the ear of Simplicity The sizing is always a fuss. I have a complete "official" size chart, not just bust, waist, hips. I make a (Simplicity) size ten outfit to be photographed and they grade up and down from my size ten pattern. I think if people knew what exact measurements the pattern was meant to fit, they'd have a better idea of how to alter it. I've mentioned this several times to them and gotten no interest. Does anybody agree/disagree with me? I think they could print a huge chart in the catalogue, or that little magazine they sell in the spring so people could take it home with them. Would that help? You know there's no hope of coming up with a highly shaped period bodice that doesn't have to be fit in muslin to the actual person. Whew! And I said I had to stick to the cutting table. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 12:59:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EGx2IO009056 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:59:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EGte76014626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:55:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EGtdbl014377; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:55:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EGtabm014216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:55:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-110.sonic.net [209.148.112.110]) (authenticated bits=0)h9EGtUs0020313 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:55:30 -0700 Message-ID: <3F8C2B21.9050903@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:58:09 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern size and designs (long!) References: <3F8BAC32.23656.D2D5ABC@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3F8BAC32.23656.D2D5ABC@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >The pity is that this *is* marketed toward teens but most new sewers, >especially those getting into historical costuming, are often at the >same level. But they wouldn't be caught dead or wouldn't think of >getting a book marketed for teens. > > > >It sure would be wonderful if we could get a commercial quality >product of this sort geared to the historical costumer. It would sure >make their lives easier. (And ours, since we could spend more time >teaching the upper level sewers and not quite so many of the new-to- >sewing people.) But this type would have to come out of the >historical community because of it's "limited audience." > We have published such a book--_After a Fashion: How to Reproduce, Restore, and Wear Vintage Styles._ It is multiera. It was first published in 1993 (it's now in its second edition) and it's still our best-selling book. Fran ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 13:00:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EH0SIO009063 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:00:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EGpK76014020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:51:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EGpBuc009429; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:51:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EGofuc008913 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:50:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.219]) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A9SNd-0001ZT-00; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:50:41 -0700 Message-ID: <24354077.1066150241241.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:50:39 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Christine Krebs-Bonder To: Historical Costume , h-costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] You have the ear of Simplicity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would definitely prefer to have a table of all the measurements! I'd buy it as a separate publication or in the magazine. Having those measurements would definitely caude me to buy mopre patterns and make them up because I'd be able to figure out what I needed to do to make them fit me. Christine in Dayton >^..^< -----Original Message----- From: Martha Kelly Sent: Oct 14, 2003 11:58 AM To: h-costume Subject: [h-cost] You have the ear of Simplicity The sizing is always a fuss. I have a complete "official" size chart, not just bust, waist, hips. I make a (Simplicity) size ten outfit to be photographed and they grade up and down from my size ten pattern. I think if people knew what exact measurements the pattern was meant to fit, they'd have a better idea of how to alter it. I've mentioned this several times to them and gotten no interest. Does anybody agree/disagree with me? I think they could print a huge chart in the catalogue, or that little magazine they sell in the spring so people could take it home with them. Would that help? You know there's no hope of coming up with a highly shaped period bodice that doesn't have to be fit in muslin to the actual person. Whew! And I said I had to stick to the cutting table. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 13:03:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EH3rIO009072 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:03:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EH1O76015273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:01:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EH1Mbl019514; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:01:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailsite.netdefender.net (mail.netdefender.com [63.220.97.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EH1Kbl019478 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:01:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netdefender.com (unverified [63.220.97.2]) by mailsite.netdefender.net for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:53:50 -0400 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:01:06 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] pattern wish list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Jennifer Loggans To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <2431642.1066138536567.JavaMail.root@thecount.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-Id: <002B25B6-FE68-11D7-A56D-000393195F42@netdefender.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd like to see something to fill in the post-Titanic-but-pre-Flapper void. Maybe a nice walking suit or two. There's practically nothing out there for this time period, other than the Attic Copies line from Past Patterns, which require alteration if you're not the magic single size. --jen, who's waiting impatiently for her order from Past Patterns to arrive _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 13:09:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EH98IO009088 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:09:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EH6t76015977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:06:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EH6rbl024997; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:06:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EH6nbm024829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:06:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-110.sonic.net [209.148.112.110]) (authenticated bits=0)h9EH6gs0022542; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:06:42 -0700 Message-ID: <3F8C2DC0.3010002@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:09:20 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume , fsbks@mcn.org Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume pattern wish list- Danish patterns References: <3F8B7C6E.5070804@lavoltapress.com> <3F8BF229.80107@oldwaylane.net> In-Reply-To: <3F8BF229.80107@oldwaylane.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO His email address is fsbks@mcn.org. Fran Judy Mitchell wrote: > Fran Grimble wrote: > >> Thanks to you and Robin. >> >> I bugged Fred Struthers (Books on Cloth) to look into the Danish >> patterns. He orders a lot of foreign publications and usually manages >> to overcome inguistic and payment problems. I don't know if I'd >> want them or not; but Fred is potentially interested in selling them >> anyway. > > > > oo! if he can get them, I'd be interested in buying them. I've > lost his contact info,though. > -Judy Mitchell > ------------------------------------------ Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 13:20:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EHKIIO009212 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:20:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EHI976017153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:18:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EHI7bl005413; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:18:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EHI4bl005294 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:18:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (bgp380694bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.16.142]) by webwarren.com (8.12.9/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9EHHrZV005750 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:17:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031014130228.030bab80@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:13:08 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: [h-cost] You have the ear of Simplicity In-Reply-To: <200310141652.h9EGq1ud010519@net.indra.com> References: <200310141652.h9EGq1ud010519@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:58:05 -0400, Martha Kelly wrote: >I called my friend Betsy at Simplicity this morning. I'm not sure of her >exact title, but she's the in-house designer and head of the craft >department. She rides herd on all the free-lancers, too. I told her about >all the interesting input on h-costume and she wants to read the transcript. Sounds great! >Since she isn't a computer person, I'll have to sacrifice a few trees to >print it all out. A few trees, versus all the printed and re-altered and trashed patterns... You'll probably be *saving* a few trees by doing this! >Betsy and Abbie are the two people you should talk to about policy change >if you can possibly get to Thursday's chat. Requests will be more >effective if directly from you all and not filtered through me. Are there also ways of contacting them directly for those who cannot get to the chat? >By the way, Betsy tells me they keep the patterns that have been pulled >from the catalogue out in Michigan and, as long as the supply holds out, >they'll gladly sell them. Wow. This sounds great for the SCA-garb-ers who've been looking for numbers like 9633 and 9650 (Big Men's Tudor and Elizabethan). Which reminds me, I'd like to see more of the men's patterns in general sizing up at least through a size 60 and/or 6X (standard range of men's "Big & Tall" stores). I know enough men who need larger sizes than that, mind you, but at least we'd have covered the equivalent of "plus size" for the men... It also sounds interesting in terms of the retrospective-archive, depending on how long they keep these patterns out in Michigan. (I have some Simplicity, Butterick, Vogue, and Advance patterns from the 1950's... and I think a Simplicity embroidery transfer with a copyright date of 1941...) >The sizing is always a fuss. I have a complete "official" size chart, not >just bust, waist, hips. I make a (Simplicity) size ten outfit to be >photographed and they grade up and down from my size ten pattern. I think >if people knew what exact measurements the pattern was meant to fit, >they'd have a better idea of how to alter it. I've mentioned this several >times to them and gotten no interest. Does anybody agree/disagree with me? That sounds great for the sewer who can do alterations. >I think they could print a huge chart in the catalogue, or that little >magazine they sell in the spring so people could take it home with them. >Would that help? Even sell it as a separate poster or laminated cheat-sheet (11" x 14" or larger might be good) to keep by your cutting table and hang up with your mats. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 13:21:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EHLUIO009228 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:21:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EHJ876017248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:19:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EHJ7bl006308; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:19:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EHJ4bl006258 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:19:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip72.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.72]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 195DF6A86E for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:19:02 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:19:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern size and designs (long!) Message-ID: <3F8BCDAF.3894.DB02A39@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3F8C2B21.9050903@lavoltapress.com> References: <3F8BAC32.23656.D2D5ABC@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wrote: > >It sure would be wonderful if we could get a commercial quality > >product of this sort geared to the historical costumer. It would sure > > make their lives easier. (And ours, since we could spend more time > >teaching the upper level sewers and not quite so many of the new-to- > >sewing people.) But this type would have to come out of the > >historical community because of it's "limited audience." Fran wrote: > We have published such a book--_After a Fashion: How to Reproduce, > Restore, and Wear Vintage Styles._ It is multiera. It was first > published in 1993 (it's now in its second edition) and it's still our > best-selling book. I've always thought that was a book for advanced sewers, not for someone who is doing general historic costuming but has never sewn in their lives. Is it geared to also work for the absolute beginner like the Simplicity book for teens? Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 13:50:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EHowIO009551 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:50:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EHkL76019979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:46:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EHkIbl000517; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:46:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EHkEbl000448 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:46:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.180] (pm5-180.eos.net [205.133.149.180]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EHkBCN012431 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:46:11 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:38:45 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200310131801.h9DI1FL9002509@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: willowy models X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Martha: I love your patterns too, and I've bought several even though I've never made any. I have more time to think about sewing than I have to sew! I got to be in a pattern focus group a couple of months ago, and I was glad to find that everyone else there did the same thing. (By the way, it turned out to be for Simplicity patterns, and everyone mentioned that they liked the Simplicity costume selection best). I, too, thought the medieval gown model was too thin. If she was a size 10, she looked like she was about a size 4. She looked so thin and tall, I wondered how the real thing would look. I bought the pattern but I never made it, because I reenact (in the loose sense of the word) that period and I know how to make that kind of dress using a lot less fabric. I would never have bought that much fabric for a costume. But I loved the look of it and I had a vague idea about checking my self-drafted patterns against yours to see if a professional pattern might fit better. I wear a size 10, so I like seeing that size. :-) I like seeing photos of garments because drawings often make the garments look better than they really are -- more fitted, or more full-skirted, etc. Again, I think your patterns are great. I wish I could make all of them! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 13:55:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EHtHIO009563 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:55:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EHoQ76020353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:50:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EHoObl004302; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:50:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EHoKbl004252 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:50:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.180] (pm5-180.eos.net [205.133.149.180]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EHoHCN013308 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:50:17 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:42:51 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200310132102.h9DL2UOZ011831@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] more pattern stuff X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, I just remembered something to pass on! At the sewing focus group I attended, one of the women said she did costumes for high school plays and she had done one set in the American Civil War period (I don't remember what) two times. She said the first time they had special ordered historically accurate patterns -- not realizing how many pieces they would have! "I'm never doing that again," she said. The next time she went with a more costumy pattern. The point is that as interested as we all are in historic stuff, not everyone else is! She loved having patterns available in a range of sizes, similar to the patterns she and her sewers were already used to using, that were readily available. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 14:08:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EI7xIO009595 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:07:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EI6176022361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EI5twD018881; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:05:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.19.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EI5qwE018778 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:05:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-110.sonic.net [209.148.112.110]) (authenticated bits=0)h9EI5jSe020470 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:05:46 -0700 Message-ID: <3F8C3B97.5050908@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:08:23 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern size and designs (long!) References: <3F8BAC32.23656.D2D5ABC@localhost> <3F8BCDAF.3894.DB02A39@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3F8BCDAF.3894.DB02A39@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran wrote: >>We have published such a book--_After a Fashion: How to Reproduce, >>Restore, and Wear Vintage Styles._ It is multiera. It was first >>published in 1993 (it's now in its second edition) and it's still our >>best-selling book. >> >> > >I've always thought that was a book for advanced sewers, not for >someone who is doing general historic costuming but has never sewn in >their lives. Is it geared to also work for the absolute beginner like >the Simplicity book for teens? > > > I haven't seen the Simplicity book for teens, so can make no comparisons. I would characterize _After a Fashion_ as for a beginning to intermediate readership. Although, over the years I've heard many people define themselves as beginning, intermediate, or advanced sewers or costumers. There seems to be no real standardization as to what skills they have or don't have before putting themselves in a category. It is not a book about quickie Halloween costuming from thrift store purchases, which is what an "easy costuming book" can easily become. As a very broad generalization, sewing historical costumes inherently tends to be more difficult than sewing modern clothing. I know there are exceptions, but historical styles tend to be more complicated. If you only want to sew modern clothes (and assuming you are female), you can start with a little sleeveless minidress from a modern pattern company. Your modern wardrobe probably already contains all the underclothes, coats, accessories, etc. you need to wear with it; so when you've finished the dress you can wear it immediately. If, on the other hand, you want to make an Elizabethan outfit, you'll need to make (or somehow obtain) several garments, all more complicated than the minidress. Maybe you should have taught yourself to sew on the minidress years ago, but this is now and what you need is an Elizabethan outfit. Most people who want to make historic clothing just seem to dive in anyway and learn whatever they need as they go. I think that has gotten a lot of people learning to sew who would not have learned otherwise. The other thing is--modern historical patterns tend not to be as accurately sized or drafted as fashion patterns from the big companies. Again, this is a very broad generalization, since the companies vary a lot. The patterns are often still very useful, but the sewer has to do more fitting. Anyway, that is the situation _After a Fashion_ addresses. Fran ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 14:18:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EIIMIO009609 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:18:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EI9W76022698 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:09:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EI9WwD021994; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:09:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EI9QwD021905 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:09:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-238-249.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.238.249])h9EI9Ow5012496 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:09:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031014094129.04bd7d10@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:44:20 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Who's the Real Designer In-Reply-To: <004e01c39263$3855f1c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <026901c39223$1ffb9d40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >The real artists are those who work backstage in the sewing rooms. All the >nameless embroiderers, all the nameless fantastic drapers and all the >fantastic couturiers. >As often, it also is those who gets badly payed. >I hate that system, it is so injustice, hate it hate it hate it!!! If you hate it, don't let it be your money that supports them - don't buy their stuff. I feel pretty much the same way about sports superstars' salaries, so I make sure none of my money goes to support them. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 14:20:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EIK8IO009614 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:20:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EIHn76023555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:17:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EIHlwD029608; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:17:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EIHiwD029514 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:17:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 343625 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:17:39 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:22:11 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] You have the ear of Simplicity From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <24354077.1066150241241.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I don't buy the magazine, but I would buy one every couple of years (or when it changed) so I could have the measurements at the sewing table! LynnD On 10/14/03 9:50 AM, "Christine Krebs-Bonder" wrote: > I would definitely prefer to have a table of all the measurements! I'd buy it > as a separate publication or in the magazine. Having those measurements would > definitely caude me to buy mopre patterns and make them up because I'd be able > to figure out what I needed to do to make them fit me. > > Christine in Dayton >^..^< > > -----Original Message----- > From: Martha Kelly > Sent: Oct 14, 2003 11:58 AM > To: h-costume > Subject: [h-cost] You have the ear of Simplicity > > > > The sizing is always a fuss. I have a complete "official" size chart, not > just bust, waist, hips. I make a (Simplicity) size ten outfit to be > photographed and they grade up and down from my size ten pattern. I think if > people knew what exact measurements the pattern was meant to fit, they'd > have a better idea of how to alter it. I've mentioned this several times to > them and gotten no interest. Does anybody agree/disagree with me? I think > they could print a huge chart in the catalogue, or that little magazine they > sell in the spring so people could take it home with them. Would that help? > You know there's no hope of coming up with a highly shaped period bodice > that doesn't have to be fit in muslin to the actual person. > > Whew! And I said I had to stick to the cutting table. > > Martha > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 14:36:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EIadIO009660 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:36:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EIZ876025394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:35:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EIZ6wD015457; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:35:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EIYxwD015268 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:35:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F9BD425CE for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:38:18 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3F8C41FF.3010207@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:35:43 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] pattern wish list References: <002B25B6-FE68-11D7-A56D-000393195F42@netdefender.com> In-Reply-To: <002B25B6-FE68-11D7-A56D-000393195F42@netdefender.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would like to see a series of patterns from various time periods, for men and women, in formal/upper class and informal/lower class variations. Such a series would make a wonderful basic costume pattern library not just for historic and re-enactment folks, but for small theatre, costume shops and schools to use. I'm willing to accept modern shoulder seams and looser fit and skirts with zippers if the general lines and look are correct, and it doesn't diverge too much into fantasy styling. Right now there is a rag-bag of patterns from history, mostly for women, and a fair number of decades are not represented at all, or are but only in one social class, or only as an evening gown. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 14:37:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EIbCIO009664 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:37:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EIPv76024438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:25:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EIPtwD007233; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:25:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [63.251.216.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EIPowD007168 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:25:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from megan2 (pcp793473pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [68.50.52.14]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D5B515C9A for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:25:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pattern size and designs (long!) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:30:34 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3F8BAC32.23656.D2D5ABC@localhost> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There *is* a great book out that covers how to get patterns altered to fit, and goes over how the body changes as we get older, and how to compensate, for the average sewer. It is not by Simplicity, however. It is Fit for Real People, by Pati Palmer and Marta Alto. I had never really learned to tailor patterns and had problems sewing from the big three as I am a D-cup and all the patterns are made for a B. That meant I usuallly made clothes that were too big in the shoulders to compensate for the needed bust room. It was frustrating to not be able to make the stuff I wanted and have it fit me. After reading this book, and getting one of the few sloper patterns out there (unfortunately the book uses the McCall's sloper which is mail order only, not available in stores, but Butterick still has one in their catalog and it worked just fine), I was able to do all the needed alterations to get a pattern to fit my larger, lower bust, etc, and am very pleased. I was disappointed that I could not get a sloper from Simplicity- they seem to have discontinued theirs. While this book is geared towards modern clothing, they also cover moving and drafting out darts, so once a sewer masters this information, the world opens up. I highly recommend it, and if Simplicity has a book similar to this, well, great. Note: It was an eye-opener to me to read that large busted women should use their high bust measurement instead of actual bust measurement to pick their size. I don't recall seeing that tidbit of info in the catalog sizing info anywhere, and that alone could have saved me many poorly fitted garments over the years. Loving this conversation... and also Martha's patterns... -Megan Kat had written: The pity is that this *is* marketed toward teens but most new sewers, especially those getting into historical costuming, are often at the same level. But they wouldn't be caught dead or wouldn't think of getting a book marketed for teens. I actually started working on a manual of this sort for reenactors (which was going to be accompanied by a video) but I found that I just don't have the kind of time it takes to do that level of project. (And then the people who had offered to help me with it had been cutting me out of the loop, and then *they* dropped it.) It sure would be wonderful if we could get a commercial quality product of this sort geared to the historical costumer. It would sure make their lives easier. (And ours, since we could spend more time teaching the upper level sewers and not quite so many of the new-to- sewing people.) But this type would have to come out of the historical community because of it's "limited audience." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 15:18:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EJIYIO009903 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:18:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EJHR76029106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:17:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EJHNEY023405; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:17:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EJHLEY023349 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:17:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMR00DSHHKVQ5@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:09:24 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Who's the Real Designer In-reply-to: <026901c39223$1ffb9d40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031014120151.00b08890@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:16 AM 10/14/2003 -0400, you wrote: >So with this presented... who do you think are the real designers of >clothing lines. Open topic... I am interested in what others think. Personally, I think the seamstresses who decipher and create the garments themselves. My hardest work is doing just that. I can sketch simple designs, that is the easy part. The harder part is figuring out how to make the image into reality. How the fabric should be cut, how the fabric should hang, how to make the neck stand up or get the flat chested look on a busty woman, etc. What I don't appreciate are those designers who lend their Famous Name to a garment line, and yet seem to have no actual input into that line. Really, what is the difference in say a Gap t-shirt, to a P-Diddy t-shirt, to a basic t-shirt? To me, they all look like a t-shirt, just some cost more because they have that tag with a famous name on it. Doesn't make sense to me, and I won't buy it because of that name. I just am going to hate the day when my son wants the latest fad fashion garment because of a name. I will end up sounding just like my Dad, who hated the same, but for him it was the cost factor more than anything. anyway, my two pesos. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 15:18:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EJImIO009908 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:18:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EJHr76029135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:17:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EJHrEY023822; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:17:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EJHLEa023349 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:17:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMR00DSHHKVQ5@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:18:16 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern size and designs (long!) In-reply-to: <6.0.0.22.0.20031013173156.030a2a38@earthlink.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031014120942.00b17dc0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:46 AM 10/14/2003 -0400, you wrote: > --The fantasy market sometimes has a degree of overlap with the > Hallowe'en market. In addition to Trick-or-Treaters and Hallowe'en > parties, this includes parts of the Renfaire market and -- perhaps to an > even larger degree -- the LARP (Live Action Role-Playing) market. Some of > these folk may worry about visible closures such as zippers versus laces, > others may not (I'm not familiar with the market). Hi Brenda, I so agree with your post almost in toto. I just wanted to add to your comment about LARPers. The LARPers, as I was once, are pretty much in the fantasy market. If it looks like the something of the character they are trying to portray, or even similar to something they have in their mind, then whatever can make that look is all they care about. I was one of the few actual costumers in the Camarilla in this state who is a costumer first, and has a background in historical costumes. I rarely saw at our international Conclaves any real historical costumes, except for a Geisha dressed Kitsune (fox character), a few in Victorian styles, an Egyptian Pharaoh and his entourage, and a few others. Some in the Changeling group dressed in their best SCA or Ren-Faire garb, if they had them already. Most LARPers I knew just put together whatever they can scrounge at their local thrift stores, add in a few Halloween props, make up some mask or makeup and off they go. Some would go for the best suits or evening gowns they could afford, some would make up things from cardboard, metal and duct tape, and a few went almost naked, depending on venue. Anyway, that's about it on LARPers from my experience. I guess I just wanted to say that most I knew did not sew any of their costumes if they could help it, and I was saddened by that. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 15:49:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EJnpIO010237 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:49:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EJlV76001782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:47:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EJlTSL021197; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:47:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EJlRSL021107 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:47:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LLWatts@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.14c.254e13ae (3964) for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:47:06 -0400 (EDT) From: LLWatts@aol.com Message-ID: <14c.254e13ae.2cbdacb9@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:47:05 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] PATTERN STORAGE To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6018 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I generally use comic book boxes. Just the right size for most > patterns (although the really big ones I have to put in sizeways) and > they are definitely acid free (so that my patterns and the like last > longer.) Some comic shops also carry the same type of box in "magazine" size, and Folkwear-sized patterns fit perfectly in them. Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 15:52:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EJq8IO010280 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:52:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EJnm76001993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:49:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EJnhSL023247; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:49:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav60.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.195]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EJnASL022636 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:49:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:49:05 -0700 Received: from 66.131.9.61 by bay9-dav60.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:49:05 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.131.9.61] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] re. designing commercial patterns Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:50:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2003 19:49:05.0526 (UTC) FILETIME=[398F1160:01C3928C] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > We think they were too difficult (and took too much fabric) for "costumes" > > and were not authentic enough for reenactment. Do you have any other > > insight as to why they failed? > > > > Martha I didn't buy them because I usually make my own for early period stuff. As you say, they were not authentic enough for reenactment. I knew they probably didn't follow period cutting methods, which meant: 1- Less authentic, which is important for me. 2- Much more fabric loss (important when sewing with 100% linen :-) I had included them in a list of pattern suggestions for a "medieval" wedding (the bride and groom showed up in late 17thC - early 18thC, but I think I'm the only one in my family who know enough about history of costumes to notice). No one chose to make your patterns. They all chose later period ones. I think that it's simply that people find the Renaissance styles more attractive. It's a shame they stopped making them, because now I think we're left with no acceptable early period pattern in the big 4. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 15:52:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EJqvIO010288 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:52:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EJoo76002122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:50:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EJomSL024392; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:50:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EJoiSL024348 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:50:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip72.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.72]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A2CB6A5ED for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:45:47 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:50:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3F8BF122.8338.E3AA565@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3F8C3B97.5050908@lavoltapress.com> References: <3F8BCDAF.3894.DB02A39@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Subject: [h-cost] Teaching the beginner, was: Re: Pattern size and designs (long!) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > As a very broad generalization, sewing historical costumes inherently > tends to be more difficult than sewing modern clothing. I know there > are exceptions, but historical styles tend to be more complicated. If > you only want to sew modern clothes (and assuming you are female), you > can start with a little sleeveless minidress from a modern pattern > company. Your modern wardrobe probably already contains all the > underclothes, coats, accessories, etc. you need to wear with it; so > when you've finished the dress you can wear it immediately. That's probably true, but there are simpler garments, even for Elizabethans. I generally start (if I can get them even to this point) with a fairly simple Spanish surcoat [The coatlike gown] or an A-line dress which would possibly go under a surcoat. The hardest part about those outfits is sleeves.) But for those who aren't even to that point, I either loan them something (and I've collected a few outfits which are either good for many sizes or I have many sizes in the closet) or (if they don't need that specific time period) help them make something like a simple T- tunic. But for the real beginners I usually start them with a pouch. I remember in Home Ec Sewing we usually started with a gym bag. Same kind of thing: mostly straight plain seams. Then something that needs to have some consideration to fit, like a simple apron. Then I go on to the T-tunic or Spanish surcoat/A-line dress. It isn't until they have at least that level done that I even attempt things like bodices and skirts (just like in class we didn't start the jumper or skirt until we'd started with the easier things just to get the hang of using a sewing machine.) > I think that has gotten a lot of people learning to sew who would not > have learned otherwise. While that is very true, I suspect that it still takes what I call an intermediate sewer to do that. The person who has never touched any sewing can't really do that as easily. They just get frustrated and give up. > The other thing is--modern historical patterns tend not to be as > accurately sized or drafted as fashion patterns from the big > companies. Again, this is a very broad generalization, since the > companies vary a lot. The patterns are often still very useful, but > the sewer has to do more fitting. I think part of that is that the modern patterns in general don't have as close fitting a garment than historical garments tend to be. If you look at most of the patterns, they have loads of ease (which allows for a lot of mis-altering or mis-measuring not to show as much.) > Anyway, that is the situation _After a Fashion_ addresses. I thought I had that book, but I can't find it. It should be with the other books I have of yours (because I like your publications. I generally don't get stuff in the "Vintage" eras because those aren't the times I really enjoy. But I usually try to get yours.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 16:03:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EK3oIO010408 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:03:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EK2j76003410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:02:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EK2hYU005574; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:02:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav52.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EK2fYU005470 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:02:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:02:36 -0700 Received: from 66.131.9.61 by bay9-dav52.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:02:35 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.131.9.61] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F8AEEC9.6000500@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re. willowy models Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:04:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2003 20:02:36.0064 (UTC) FILETIME=[1CAD5A00:01C3928E] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > May I seek your insight? > > > > A couple of you mentioned that the very slender model might be off-putting. > > This is something we discuss all the time in the costume/craft department. > > We get mail asking for larger sizes and designs suitable for larger women. > > When we make them, they don’t sell well enough to stay in the book. I'm sorry I can't help you with that one. The smallest pattern sizes are barely small enough for me. I'm a size 8 chest, short-waisted, and a size 12 hips. (I mean pattern sizes, not clothing sizes) One thing to consider, though, is that larger women might like to have clothing in their sizes that looks like clothing made for smaller women. I love looking at pattern catalogs, but I always skip the larger sized patterns because I don't like the designs. I know very well that some designs are less flattering on certain body types, but larger sized patterns always look the same to me. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 16:15:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EKFGIO010449 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:15:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EKEA76004370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:14:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EKE9YU015884; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:14:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41108.mail.yahoo.com (web41108.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9EKE4YU015736 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:14:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031014201359.76721.qmail@web41108.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [146.145.104.206] by web41108.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:13:59 PDT Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:13:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Stacey To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200310141802.h9EI2hwF016060@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Simplicity X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO After reading what Martha has in store for Simplicity, I'm eagerly awaiting whatever she's making. I second the motion for more menswear. My problem with the rest of Simplicity is that everything else is, frankly, boring. They may show a few variations on the theme of one design, but all of the designs are either the same two darts or princess line. Worse yet, those slopers are used in some of the Historical series (I noticed, not the ones with Martha's imprint) The only patterns I see in the Big 3 with any originality or sewing challenge are the Vogue Designer series, and even then, only the Miyakes. This is why I'm attracted to historical sewing - as a challenge and some interesting cutting; and also to spark my own design creativity. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 16:25:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EKPmIO010620 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:25:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EKJh76004886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:19:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EKJbYU020958; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:19:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EKJZYU020855 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:19:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bently (c-67-168-14-153.client.comcast.net[67.168.14.153]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20031014201930016002s6tbe>; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:19:30 +0000 Message-ID: <00f001c39291$3e4f3f40$0200a8c0@comcast.net> From: "David" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00ae01c391a2$45dbd470$75f5da0c@DT2JBTC21> <056001c391e6$cba50100$eaf4fea9@glendaii> Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:24:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Also, the MoL does not allow general photography (or sketches, but that > didn't stop Wayne taking a few notes that were a little sketchlike). That's odd...I was just there in August, snapped away like a madwoman with my digital camera, and no one even gave me a raised eyebrow! Pam Dotson Everett, WA USA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 17:29:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ELTvIO010775 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:29:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ELT176011359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ELSf2R024911; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:28:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14002.mail.yahoo.com (web14002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9ELSZ2R024801 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:28:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031014212835.66345.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:28:35 BST Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:28:35 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] movie generated demand X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think the new Alamo movie will be out in December. That will probably generate some demand for period costume patterns. ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 17:32:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ELWIIO010788 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:32:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ELVV76011755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:31:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ELVR2R027986; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:31:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ELV52R027494 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:31:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PallasAMK@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.115.29f971ec (15865) for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m24.webmail.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v96.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID64-3df93f8c6aa810; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:29:12 -0400 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:29:12 -0400 From: PallasAMK@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <329BDE32.35DDF134.02708BA2@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 63.251.31.10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9ELV52R027494 Subject: [h-cost] More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm always sort of stunned when people expect "ready made" patterns to fit. How could they? Just a perfunctory glance at our various descriptions of ourselves ("large busted, high points"; "pear shaped"; "short-waisted", "size 20 but hourglass"; "slim but long waisted"; and I'll add my own "tall/slim with simian arms and linebacker shoulders" into the mix) shows how impossible it would be to come up with one single sloper to address all of these fit issues. So maybe what is needed is the pattern companies stepping up and providing more fitting information than "lengthen or shorten here." For myself personally, I could sure use a mark or two on the best point to broaden shoulders; and it seems that a number of people could benefit from raising or lowering the bust curve without wrecking the line of the pattern. Like most people on this list I have learned to draft over the years, and I could figure it out myself, but it would sure save me some time if I didn't have to. Or heck, if the pattern tends to run long-waisted, say so on the envelope. No harm no foul. But it means that if I decide I want to work with that particular pattern, I know that going in that I'll have to shorten the waist, and can make the adjustments early on, before I hack into the silk charmeuse. Or, heaven forfend, a little paragraph printed on some of that excess pattern tissue about how to re-curve for a lower hipline. But back to my original thought--I certainly don't expect to walk into a store and be able to wear every piece of clothing on the rack. As someone said (Penny, was it?) different lines use different fit models, which will naturally suit some bodies and not others. Why would a pattern be any different? I guess because I've always been difficult to fit, I've never expected that I could cut out a pattern from any company, stitch it up and be done without some level of fitting gyrations on my part. It is a testament perhaps to the skill of the marketing/advertising departments of these companies that we believe a 12 is a 12 is a 12 in patterns, when we all know that in RTW a 10 could be a 12 could be an 8. Only in menswear are sizes true--a topic that has been batted round here a couple of times already. I've never found willowy models to be a problem with patterns, historical or otherwise, since they are really nothing but living coathangers. Actually, they make it a little easier to see where the seams are on patterns, and at least for historical garments, let you see what you 've got to change to get a better, more accurate line. And they're just "symbolic" people, anyway; their job, for which they are ideally proportioned, is to assure (as someone noted), that the garment is the most important thing in the picture, or on the runway. Short of drafting your own patterns for everything, as Kendra does, the only thing to be done is to take the time to measure and revise the existing patterns, until you get it right for you. But to expect to be able to buy an off-the-rack pattern and have it fit? Impossible, and not very realistic. Pallas _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 17:59:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ELxQIO010856 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:59:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ELsi76014127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:54:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ELsh2R019151; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:54:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ELsd2R019098 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:54:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h9ELuGD12573 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:56:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:56:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200310142156.h9ELuGD12573@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] PATTERN STORAGE X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= wrote>: > > Cheap pattern storage. If you have access to boxes of > paper for copy machines, they make great pattern > storage boxes. They're fairly sturdy and don't > collapse if you stack one on the other. I'm sure > someone out there has more patterns than I do and I'm > up to 2 boxes. I've started using plastic storage crates. My cats can't shred them and nothing gets ruined if there's a little bit of flooding (we had plumbing problems a while back). I'm now on my second large plastic crate of patterns (though Past Patterns and Folkwear take up more room than the Big Three standard pattern envelope). Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 18:00:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EM0HIO010862 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:00:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ELtY76014210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:55:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ELtYD9019771; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:55:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ELtVD9019685 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:55:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-237-231.client.attbi.com[12.246.237.231]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20031014215525016002pu27e>; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:55:26 +0000 Message-ID: <3F8C70D8.40502@fenris.net> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:55:36 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] You have the ear of Simplicity References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Martha Kelly wrote: >The sizing is always a fuss. I have a complete "official" size chart, not >just bust, waist, hips. I make a (Simplicity) size ten outfit to be >photographed and they grade up and down from my size ten pattern. I think if >people knew what exact measurements the pattern was meant to fit, they'd >have a better idea of how to alter it. I've mentioned this several times to >them and gotten no interest. Does anybody agree/disagree with me? > I completly agree with the idea of a complete size chart. That would be fantastic! I measure the pattern tissue for several additional numbers before I sit down to alter it. I'm curious (for the next time you want a break from your table), what measurments are on that 'official' size chart past the usual ones given on the pattern envelope? Would in include such things as arm diameter? How about a measurement for where the elbow falls on the arm (my lower arm is extra long)? Neck diameter, um.... I'm sure there's more. I think I've seen wearing and design ease given on some small pattern company.... la Fred? I'm not sure. liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 18:10:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EMAGIO010886 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:10:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EM5476014988 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:05:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EM52D9028085; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:05:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EM50D9027981 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:05:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-237-231.client.attbi.com[12.246.237.231]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003101422045301100mdkfme>; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:04:55 +0000 Message-ID: <3F8C730A.1020204@fenris.net> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:04:58 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: OT Re: [h-cost] More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing References: <329BDE32.35DDF134.02708BA2@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <329BDE32.35DDF134.02708BA2@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO PallasAMK@aol.com wrote: >I'm always sort of stunned when people expect "ready made" patterns to fit. How could they? Just a perfunctory glance at our various descriptions of ourselves ("large busted, high points"; "pear shaped"; "short-waisted", "size 20 but hourglass"; "slim but long waisted"; and I'll add my own "tall/slim with simian arms and linebacker shoulders" into the mix) shows how impossible it would be to come up with one single sloper to address all of these fit issues. > many good points snipped > But to expect to be able to buy an off-the-rack pattern and have it fit? Impossible, and not very realistic. > > I have never expected to buy a pattern and have it fit right out of the envelope. I do know that adjustments are almost always necessary. However, as I stated in an earlier post, when I was a more standard size (12/14) I only had to lengthen pattern pieces, I did not have to futz with the relative proportions of the pieces. Um.... let's try that again. I expect that, carrying 40 extra pounds as I am, that the excess is distributed unevenly. Also, all the other women in the world who are my height and bone structure are not going to end with their extra 40 pounds distributed the same way. However! The apparent distortions of fit present in the upper end of the pattern size range bug me. I seem to need to make many many more adjustments to what should be a correctly sized pattern (based on the measurements on the envelope) than I should. that's what I, at any rate, meant to say liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 18:15:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EMFMIO010895 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:15:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMDO76015738 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:13:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMDMD9005243; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:13:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMDGD9005164 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:13:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oldwaylane.net (dialup-67.72.166.202.Dial1.Washington1.Level3.net [67.72.166.202]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15111 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:13:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3F8C7563.4040407@oldwaylane.net> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:14:59 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume pattern wish list- Danish patterns References: <3F8B7C6E.5070804@lavoltapress.com> <3F8BF229.80107@oldwaylane.net> <3F8C2DC0.3010002@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <3F8C2DC0.3010002@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran Grimble wrote: > His email address is fsbks@mcn.org. thanks, Fran. I've dropped him a note. And gee, Bjarne says the Lund museum also has some patterns! -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 18:16:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EMGaIO010901 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:16:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMEa76015826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:14:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMEZD9006222; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:14:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav34.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMEWD9006126 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:14:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:14:27 -0700 Received: from 66.131.9.61 by bay9-dav34.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:14:27 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.131.9.61] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:15:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2003 22:14:27.0500 (UTC) FILETIME=[8842AEC0:01C392A0] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > If you want to catch the ear of the two ladies who choose which patterns are > developed at Simplicity, come to the live chat this Thursday at 1:00 PM > Eastern time. > I was the guest for a couple of sessions, but not many people showed up. It > 's a bad time of day, isn't it? It often feels like they assume people who sew also stay home all day :-) I don't! Sorry I won't be there, I have a class... > Thank you everybody who wrote in such helpful suggestions today. Sometimes > I feel like I'm working in a vacuum, so this was great. I have another > question or two to pose, but I think I've had my time in the sun for now. Don't worry! We love talking with people such as you! Go ahead and ask! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 18:23:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EMNmIO010909 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:23:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMIP76016124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:18:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMIID9009304; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:18:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.224]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMIFD9009265 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:18:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Martha (24-90-83-116.nyc.rr.com [24.90.83.116]) with SMTP id h9EMIEgu020465 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:18:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Martha Kelly" To: "h-costume" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:18:17 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] Just one more question? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Since it seems that I'm going into Simplicity with a huge meal for them to chew on, may I add one final (I promise) course? I think it's extremely important for our reenactors, maybe the men even more than the women, to trust the provenance of historic patterns. I do a great deal of research in museums, private collections, with original patterns, etc. All of which I would be delighted to share. I really think people deserve to know where I got the information. Where do you think Simplicity should offer this information - even a bit is better than none - so that it would be accessible to people who are interested? We can't get any more information into the envelope. My patterns and their instructions always cram every last inch. We usually have to leave out the alternate sleeve or the Plan B collar treatment or something due to space. Where might people read this sort of thing? This is a new concept for them because they've never done seriously historic patterns before. Not many people have asked for the derivation of a witch, a clown or a sexy French maid. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 18:28:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EMSbIO010945 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:28:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMKI76016328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:20:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMKHD9010868; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:20:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hiram.io.com (root@hiram.io.com [199.170.88.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMKED9010803 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:20:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by hiram.io.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9EMKG912504 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:20:16 -0500 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h9EML26s008945 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:21:02 -0500 Received: from 199.50.29.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:21:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <13539.199.50.29.40.1066170062.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:21:02 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing From: "Chiara" To: In-Reply-To: <329BDE32.35DDF134.02708BA2@aol.com> References: <329BDE32.35DDF134.02708BA2@aol.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Vogue has a really great sloper that does just that. You need to be ready for an education on how to read thier patterns but they at least have it all there for you to read. I love mine. Grant it it is old so you may have to ask the manager to order it for you as most clerks would not know if it is still orderable. Not a slight on clerks but it is the manager's job to know what specialty patterns they can order that are not in the books. If it is in the books it would be on the last page or the sizing page. Chiara > I'm always sort of stunned when people expect "ready made" patterns to > fit. How could they? Just a perfunctory glance at our various > descriptions of ourselves ("large busted, high points"; "pear shaped"; > "short-waisted", "size 20 but hourglass"; "slim but long waisted"; and > I'll add my own "tall/slim with simian arms and linebacker shoulders" > into the mix) shows how impossible it would be to come up with one > single sloper to address all of these fit issues. So maybe what is > needed is the pattern companies stepping up and providing more fitting > information than "lengthen or shorten here." For myself personally, I > could sure use a mark or two on the best point to broaden shoulders; and > it seems that a number of people could benefit from raising or lowering > the bust curve without wrecking the line of the pattern. Like most > people on this list I have learned to draft over the years, and I could > figure it out myself, but it would sure save me some time if I didn't > have to. Or heck, if the pattern tends to run long-waisted, say so on > the envelope. No harm no foul. But it means that if I decide I want to > work with that particular pattern, I know that going in that I'll have > to shorten the waist, and can make the adjustments early on, before I > hack into the silk charmeuse. Or, heaven forfend, a little paragraph > printed on some of that excess pattern tissue about how to re-curve for > a lower hipline. But back to my original thought--I certainly don't > expect to walk into a store and be able to wear every piece of clothing > on the rack. As someone said (Penny, was it?) different lines use > different fit models, which will naturally suit some bodies and not > others. Why would a pattern be any different? I guess because I've > always been difficult to fit, I've never expected that I could cut out a > pattern from any company, stitch it up and be done without some level > of fitting gyrations on my part. It is a testament perhaps to the > skill of the marketing/advertising departments of these companies that > we believe a 12 is a 12 is a 12 in patterns, when we all know that in > RTW a 10 could be a 12 could be an 8. Only in menswear are sizes > true--a topic that has been batted round here a couple of times already. > I've never found willowy models to be a problem with patterns, > historical or otherwise, since they are really nothing but living > coathangers. Actually, they make it a little easier to see where the > seams are on patterns, and at least for historical garments, let you see > what you 've got to change to get a better, more accurate line. And > they're just "symbolic" people, anyway; their job, for which they are > ideally proportioned, is to assure (as someone noted), that the garment > is the most important thing in the picture, or on the runway. Short > of drafting your own patterns for everything, as Kendra does, the only > thing to be done is to take the time to measure and revise the existing > patterns, until you get it right for you. But to expect to be able to > buy an off-the-rack pattern and have it fit? Impossible, and not very > realistic. Pallas > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 18:41:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EMfDIO010967 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:41:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMcu76017966 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:38:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMcsD9025678; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:38:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from orval.sprint.ca (orval.sprint.ca [209.5.194.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMcqD9025649 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:38:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shooie ([149.99.69.204]) by orval.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031014223851.BOGD1080.orval.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:38:51 -0400 Message-ID: <004b01c392a3$e0af1140$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:38:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Subject: [h-cost] Test X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Testing.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 18:41:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EMfUIO010970 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:41:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMdI76018003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:39:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMdHD9026023; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:39:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMd7D9025849 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:39:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by scanmail1.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:34:50 -0700 Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id AA0A980700CC; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:34:50 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (24-117-44-29.cpe.cableone.net [24.117.44.29]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:34:50 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Just one more question? Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:39:54 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c392a4$171b9000$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-117-44-29.cpe.cableone.net [24.117.44.29] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Put it on the web site, of course! Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Martha Kelly Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 5:18 PM To: h-costume Subject: [h-cost] Just one more question? Since it seems that I'm going into Simplicity with a huge meal for them to chew on, may I add one final (I promise) course? I think it's extremely important for our reenactors, maybe the men even more than the women, to trust the provenance of historic patterns. I do a great deal of research in museums, private collections, with original patterns, etc. All of which I would be delighted to share. I really think people deserve to know where I got the information. Where do you think Simplicity should offer this information - even a bit is better than none - so that it would be accessible to people who are interested? We can't get any more information into the envelope. My patterns and their instructions always cram every last inch. We usually have to leave out the alternate sleeve or the Plan B collar treatment or something due to space. Where might people read this sort of thing? This is a new concept for them because they've never done seriously historic patterns before. Not many people have asked for the derivation of a witch, a clown or a sexy French maid. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 18:52:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EMqEIO010984 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:52:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMow76019021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:50:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMovD9005335; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:50:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMopD9005254 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:50:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.123]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:48:38 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Just one more question? Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:50:48 -0400 Message-ID: <00ac01c392a5$9dde0c20$186453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Martha Kelly wrote: <> Frankly, Martha, I don't think Simplicity shouldn't try to be all things to all people. I was thrilled that your company was making a foray into better costumes. But to delving into historical clothing is quite another story. Are you really intending on including 10 pages of historical notes and reproductions of period artwork and sketches of museum pieces with every pattern? Because that's what reenactors want. Are you going to include information on the weave and thread count of the fabric from which the museum original was made and suggestions on where to buy modernly-produced fabric that will pass? Will you go into the details of period stitches and which were used on the garments studied and why? This is the kind of detail we crave. I don't think that's something Simplicity can afford to do and still mass market their patterns. Saying, "Based on an original in the Metropolitan Museum" (as Folkwear does) is one thing. But the detail we desire is too much with which a commercial pattern company to concern itself. You'd be boring most of your audience to get the attention of a few who would probably draft their own patterns from scratch anyway. Kass McGann _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 18:55:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EMt0IO011004 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:55:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMs476019302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:54:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMs1D9007729; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMrvD9007491 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:53:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.117] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD45F30200A4; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:48:37 -0400 Message-ID: <003101c392a6$a27c7e00$755183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031014140839.71992.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] PATTERN STORAGE Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:58:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How about a couple of commercial pattern file drawers...five feet tall with 4 drawers each! Full.I just emptied them of costume patterns from 20 years, and find that the historical costume patterns now being filed in place will still leave me with extra boxes. If you are using a basement for storage, go "plastic", or you will be surprised at the weight the paper boxes can hold...and 'fail' in a short time. I am finding it interesting to compare the 'vintage' historical patterns with their second or third "go around"; they surely do exhibit the present aesthetic tweaks that Anne Hollander suggests will always be found when styles of the past get re-cycled. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catalina Sanabria Rosado" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 10:08 AM Subject: [h-cost] PATTERN STORAGE > Cheap pattern storage. If you have access to boxes of > paper for copy machines, they make great pattern > storage boxes. They're fairly sturdy and don't > collapse if you stack one on the other. I'm sure > someone out there has more patterns than I do and I'm > up to 2 boxes. > > ===== > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 18:58:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EMw2IO011033 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:58:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMvI76019558 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:57:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMvHbc010140; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:57:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMvEbc010005 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:57:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E293425CE for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:00:32 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3F8C7F70.6060306@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:57:52 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Just one more question? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Martha Kelly wrote: > I think it's extremely important for our reenactors, maybe the men even more > than the women, to trust the provenance of historic patterns. I do a great > deal of research in museums, private collections, with original patterns, > etc. All of which I would be delighted to share. I really think people > deserve to know where I got the information. I would be thrilled to see any references for the costumes, even if they were fantasy inspired. > > Where do you think Simplicity should offer this information - even a bit is > better than none - so that it would be accessible to people who are > interested? I will second Lynn's suggestion of being able to write for a copy, and add that I would like to see downloadable PDFs on the website. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 19:00:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EN03IO011040 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:00:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMx976019773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:59:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMx9bc011554; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:59:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav33.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMx6bc011451 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:59:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:59:01 -0700 Received: from 66.131.9.61 by bay9-dav33.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:59:00 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.131.9.61] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <2431642.1066138536567.JavaMail.root@thecount.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] pattern wish list Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:00:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2003 22:59:01.0211 (UTC) FILETIME=[C1EA9AB0:01C392A6] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'd love to have more 1920s and early 1930s patterns available. Not just the flapper dresses or evening wear but day dresses, tea gowns, tennis or other athletic clothes, and proper period lingerie (modern bras just don't cut it if you want the right line). Ooh, YES! That would be great. > I'd also love to get hold of gentlemen's patterns for the same era that AREN'T "zoot suits." There's some outfits described in Fitzgerald's "The Great Gatsby" that I'd like to create... Yes, that I agree. My bf would look stunning in one of those :-) But also a great zoot suit pattern. I can't find the Vogue one and it looks complicated, and the other (is it McCall?) has something wrong I just can't put my finger on, so I haven't bought it yet. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 19:06:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EN6iIO011048 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:06:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EN5n76020256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:05:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EN5mbc016214; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:05:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EN5jbc016126 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:05:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9ENE2jp020587 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:14:02 -0700 Message-ID: <3F8C8156.5090201@misc.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:05:58 -0700 From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Just one more question? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Martha Kelly wrote: > I think it's extremely important for our reenactors, maybe the men even more > than the women, to trust the provenance of historic patterns. I do a great > deal of research in museums, private collections, with original patterns, > etc. All of which I would be delighted to share. I really think people > deserve to know where I got the information. > > Where do you think Simplicity should offer this information - even a bit is > better than none - so that it would be accessible to people who are > interested? We can't get any more information into the envelope. My > patterns and their instructions always cram every last inch. We usually > have to leave out the alternate sleeve or the Plan B collar treatment or > something due to space. Where might people read this sort of thing? Re - making historical information available, as well as omitted (due to lack of space) alternate design elements: do you suppose enough of us are computer literate to make it worthwhile dedicating a spot on the Simplicity website for historical documentation and/or extra patternings? Theresa Eacker _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 19:07:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9EN77IO011051 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:07:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EN6G76020284 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:06:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EN6Fbc016525; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:06:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EN6Cbc016419 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:06:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.117] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A026F5F200A4; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:00:54 -0400 Message-ID: <006501c392a8$59cbdf00$755183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F8BAC32.23656.D2D5ABC@localhost><3F8BCDAF.3894.DB02A39@localhost> <3F8C3B97.5050908@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern size and designs (long!) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:10:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran, I have all of your excellent books and have found them great to work with. While I have been viewing and picking apart pictures on my own for years, your period approach to some of the nitty gritty styles and designs, using your tried and true method of size translation has made my jobs as seamstress sooo much easier. Thanks! Kathleen Mitchell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fran Grimble" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern size and designs (long!) > Fran wrote: > > >>We have published such a book--_After a Fashion: How to Reproduce, > >>Restore, and Wear Vintage Styles._ It is multiera. It was first > >>published in 1993 (it's now in its second edition) and it's still our > >>best-selling book. > >> > >> > > > >I've always thought that was a book for advanced sewers, not for > >someone who is doing general historic costuming but has never sewn in > >their lives. Is it geared to also work for the absolute beginner like > >the Simplicity book for teens? > > > > > > > I haven't seen the Simplicity book for teens, so can make no comparisons. > > I would characterize _After a Fashion_ as for a beginning to > intermediate readership. Although, over the years I've heard many > people define themselves as beginning, intermediate, or advanced sewers > or costumers. There seems to be no real standardization as to what > skills they have or don't have before putting themselves in a category. > > It is not a book about quickie Halloween costuming from thrift store > purchases, which is what an "easy costuming book" can easily become. > > As a very broad generalization, sewing historical costumes inherently > tends to be more difficult than sewing modern clothing. I know there are > exceptions, but historical styles tend to be more complicated. If you > only want to sew modern clothes (and assuming you are female), you can > start with a little sleeveless minidress from a modern pattern company. > Your modern wardrobe probably already contains all the underclothes, > coats, accessories, etc. you need to wear with it; so when you've > finished the dress you can wear it immediately. If, on the other hand, > you want to make an Elizabethan outfit, you'll need to make (or somehow > obtain) several garments, all more complicated than the minidress. > Maybe you should have taught yourself to sew on the minidress years ago, > but this is now and what you need is an Elizabethan outfit. Most people > who want to make historic clothing just seem to dive in anyway and learn > whatever they need as they go. I think that has gotten a lot of people > learning to sew who would not have learned otherwise. > > The other thing is--modern historical patterns tend not to be as > accurately sized or drafted as fashion patterns from the big companies. > Again, this is a very broad generalization, since the companies vary a > lot. The patterns are often still very useful, but the sewer has to do > more fitting. > > Anyway, that is the situation _After a Fashion_ addresses. > > Fran > > ----------------------------------------- > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > Historic and Vintage Dance > http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 19:15:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ENFIIO011077 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:15:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ENEL76020775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:14:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ENEJbc022352; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:14:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav39.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.96]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ENEHbc022240 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:14:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:14:11 -0700 Received: from 66.131.9.61 by bay9-dav39.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:14:11 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.131.9.61] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] You have the ear of Simplicity Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:10:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2003 23:14:11.0562 (UTC) FILETIME=[E08724A0:01C392A8] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The sizing is always a fuss. I have a complete "official" size chart, not > just bust, waist, hips. I make a (Simplicity) size ten outfit to be > photographed and they grade up and down from my size ten pattern. I think if > people knew what exact measurements the pattern was meant to fit, they'd > have a better idea of how to alter it. I've mentioned this several times to > them and gotten no interest. Does anybody agree/disagree with me? I think > they could print a huge chart in the catalogue, or that little magazine they > sell in the spring so people could take it home with them. Would that help? > You know there's no hope of coming up with a highly shaped period bodice > that doesn't have to be fit in muslin to the actual person. Wow, thanks! This is really nice of you. As for sizing being printed on the pattern back, the least they could do is give us back length! I'd also appreciate arm length, and all the others are candy. They could print them out smaller so beginners would still know which are the important measurements (bust-waist-hips) but experienced ones can still get the information. As for printing it in the magazine... uh... which magazine? I don't hang out at the fabric store. I shop for patterns online, and when I've chosen I show up at the store, raid the thread, pattern and sales sections, and leave. I never saw a magazine... and since I do almost only historical clothing, I really don't relate to the contents of most sewing magazines. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 19:22:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ENM1IO011092 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:22:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ENLH76021197 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:21:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ENLGbc026890; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:21:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (sea1-f123.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ENLDbc026824 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:21:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:21:08 -0700 Received: from 146.126.51.51 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:21:07 GMT X-Originating-IP: [146.126.51.51] X-Originating-Email: [dminmin@hotmail.com] From: "deborah minyard" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:21:07 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2003 23:21:08.0387 (UTC) FILETIME=[D8F99730:01C392A9] Subject: [h-cost] Re: types of costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > --The fantasy market sometimes has a degree of overlap with the >Hallowe'en market. In addition to Trick-or-Treaters and Hallowe'en parties, >this includes parts of the Renfaire market and -- perhaps to an even larger >degree -- the LARP (Live Action Role-Playing) market. Some of these folk >may worry about visible closures such as zippers versus laces, others may >not (I'm not familiar with the market). This includes Con Hall costumes up through Costume contest entries. A lot of this is just something I won't see on the steert but it's easy to wear. Maddalena _________________________________________________________________ Surf and talk on the phone at the same time with broadband Internet access. Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local service providers in your area). https://broadband.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 19:23:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ENNBIO011101 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:23:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ENMM76021298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:22:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ENMLbc027657; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:22:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m3.nyc.untd.com (m3.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9ENMIbc027562 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:22:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"MW/ewWa+Q2FG65sHxVDc3XVq3VbDZ2nIuZFjkIL9StAiOFbFMOnIMw==">; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:21:36 PDT Received: (from btana@juno.com) by m3.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JCG5JFH6; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:21:36 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:20:08 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list Message-ID: <20031014.172333.616.0.btana@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2,4,6-7,9-11,13-16,20-23,25-27 From: btana@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:15:54 -0400 "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" writes: > > If you want to catch the ear of the two ladies who choose which patterns are > > developed at Simplicity, come to the live chat this Thursday at 1:00 PM Eastern time. > > > I was the guest for a couple of sessions, but not many people showed up. It > > 's a bad time of day, isn't it? > > It often feels like they assume people who sew also stay home all day :-) I > don't! Sorry I won't be there, I have a class... Shoot, just looked at the time and it's Eastern. I was thinking I just might be home for it myself. (Part time work, and then working at home helps. But not this time. ) That puts it at 11am my time, and I'll still be at work! Drat it anyhow. Astrid Never argue with a dragon, for thou art crunchy and go well with Brie. http://www.geocities.com/tul_juriss - for links to ALL my current sites http://www.geocities.com/astridofthehorde - costumes I've made http://www.geocities.com/house_qul_mupwi - The noble Klingon House http://www.geocities.com/klingon_pirates_guild - The Klingon Pirate's Guild ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 19:32:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ENWlIO011118 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:32:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ENVn76022135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:31:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ENVkbc004989; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:31:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav42.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ENVhbc004915 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:31:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:31:38 -0700 Received: from 66.131.9.61 by bay9-dav42.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:31:37 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.131.9.61] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Just one more question? Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:33:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2003 23:31:38.0172 (UTC) FILETIME=[505B27C0:01C392AB] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Where do you think Simplicity should offer this information - even a bit is > better than none - so that it would be accessible to people who are > interested? We can't get any more information into the envelope. My > patterns and their instructions always cram every last inch. We usually > have to leave out the alternate sleeve or the Plan B collar treatment or > something due to space. Where might people read this sort of thing? I'd read it online, no problem. But if they could at least include a little box saying "15th C England, based on a dress from This museum", it would already be a GREAT starting point! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 19:43:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ENhaIO011131 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:43:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMS576017055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:28:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMS3D9016916; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:28:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMS1D9016835 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 344424 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:27:55 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:32:28 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Just one more question? From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Martha, this is a wonderful idea. Would it be possible to have an address in the pattern (advertised ON the envelope) where someone interested in the research could send to Simplicity and pay if necessary for the extras? I'd love to have more research in my files. I have my different period patterns filed by chronological date and have notes in the box with the patterns, i.e., anything GBACG might say about a pattern to make it more period, or to make it fit better, or the information where this particular dress can be found in that painting by Leonardo, etc. LynnD On 10/14/03 3:18 PM, "Martha Kelly" wrote: > Since it seems that I'm going into Simplicity with a huge meal for them to > chew on, may I add one final (I promise) course? > > I think it's extremely important for our reenactors, maybe the men even more > than the women, to trust the provenance of historic patterns. I do a great > deal of research in museums, private collections, with original patterns, > etc. All of which I would be delighted to share. I really think people > deserve to know where I got the information. > > Where do you think Simplicity should offer this information - even a bit is > better than none - so that it would be accessible to people who are > interested? We can't get any more information into the envelope. My > patterns and their instructions always cram every last inch. We usually > have to leave out the alternate sleeve or the Plan B collar treatment or > something due to space. Where might people read this sort of thing? > > This is a new concept for them because they've never done seriously historic > patterns before. Not many people have asked for the derivation of a witch, a > clown or a sexy French maid. > > Martha > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 19:44:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ENidIO011139 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:44:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMhR76018387 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:43:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMhPD9029249; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:43:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from david.io.com (david.io.com [199.170.88.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9EMhLDA029174 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:43:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by david.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9EMhDmC028177 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:43:13 -0500 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h9EMi96s001138 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:44:09 -0500 Received: from 199.50.29.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:44:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <16711.199.50.29.40.1066171449.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:44:09 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Just one more question? From: "Chiara" To: In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Two places come to mind for me. One could be a bibliography card insert or right on the pattern itself. There is so much empty space left on the pattern tissue it would be the cost of typsetting to add it if that. On the older patterns that I have that is where the instructions used to be printed, on the tissue. (I purchase three of each kind if I can, one ratty one that I can use, one presteen one that I can store, and one that I can read and not worry that it will not survive and use the surviving parts for the merging to the first pattern. That is how I found the occasional ones with print on the tissue.) Another thought would be to print a url of the research on a site that is static and not going to disappear in a year. On this page could also be information on how to order the pattern once it is gone from the book. Chiara > Since it seems that I'm going into Simplicity with a huge meal for them > to chew on, may I add one final (I promise) course? > > I think it's extremely important for our reenactors, maybe the men even > more than the women, to trust the provenance of historic patterns. I do > a great deal of research in museums, private collections, with original > patterns, etc. All of which I would be delighted to share. I really > think people deserve to know where I got the information. > > Where do you think Simplicity should offer this information - even a bit > is better than none - so that it would be accessible to people who are > interested? We can't get any more information into the envelope. My > patterns and their instructions always cram every last inch. We usually > have to leave out the alternate sleeve or the Plan B collar treatment or > something due to space. Where might people read this sort of thing? > > This is a new concept for them because they've never done seriously > historic patterns before. Not many people have asked for the derivation > of a witch, a clown or a sexy French maid. > > Martha > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 20:06:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F06kIO011186 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:06:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F05n76024921 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:05:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F05jKN028135; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:05:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from incoming.SIGENETICS.com ([209.172.110.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F05hKN028049 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:05:43 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [h-cost] Just one more question? Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:05:37 -0700 Message-ID: <0D3431E0FD777844A4ED9507E4D698D90CB041@incoming.sigenetics.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 661 Thread-Index: AcOSptoZPSKOhalyRcyc5U8Rs48mEQACGORQ From: "Sunny Buchler" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9F05hKN028049 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Past Patterns (I think) a long time ago put some of their historical detail on the actual tissue paper that the pattern was on (in the skirt sections and other large empty areas). I can't say I like that location because I have the worst time keeping the historical detail tissue readable -- but when I was sewing a lot I would rather have had a printed copy of the documentation then have to go look it up on the web. (Now I have great web access though work, but no time to sew, go figure.) -sunny > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:18:17 -0400 > From: "Martha Kelly" > Subject: [h-cost] Just one more question? > To: "h-costume" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Since it seems that I'm going into Simplicity with a huge > meal for them to > chew on, may I add one final (I promise) course? > > I think it's extremely important for our reenactors, maybe > the men even more > than the women, to trust the provenance of historic patterns. > I do a great > deal of research in museums, private collections, with > original patterns, > etc. All of which I would be delighted to share. I really think people > deserve to know where I got the information. > > Where do you think Simplicity should offer this information - > even a bit is > better than none - so that it would be accessible to people who are > interested? We can't get any more information into the envelope. My > patterns and their instructions always cram every last inch. > We usually > have to leave out the alternate sleeve or the Plan B collar > treatment or > something due to space. Where might people read this sort of thing? > > This is a new concept for them because they've never done > seriously historic > patterns before. Not many people have asked for the > derivation of a witch, a > clown or a sexy French maid. > > Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 21:04:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F141IO011291 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:04:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F12M76028035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:02:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F12LC1028129; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:02:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9F12HC1028035 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:02:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-121-114-184.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.121.114.184 with login) by smtp1.bt.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Oct 2003 01:02:11 -0000 Message-ID: <01a301c392b7$f8283180$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <329BDE32.35DDF134.02708BA2@aol.com> <3F8C730A.1020204@fenris.net> Subject: Re: OT Re: [h-cost] More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:02:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For some reason I didn't get Pallas' email, so I'm just responding to the snip below -- this is an excellent point, and why I rail against standardized sizing in BOTH ready to wear and patterns. I don't think there's a solution, except maybe to go back to the pre-Godey's era of drafting and making our own patterns! At least we as sewers have that option, or can learn to alter clothes to fit... most people with varying body shapes just have to wear oversized clothes. - Kendra > PallasAMK@aol.com wrote: > > >I'm always sort of stunned when people expect "ready made" patterns to fit. How could they? Just a perfunctory glance at our various descriptions of ourselves ("large busted, high points"; "pear shaped"; "short-waisted", "size 20 but hourglass"; "slim but long waisted"; and I'll add my own "tall/slim with simian arms and linebacker shoulders" into the mix) shows how impossible it would be to come up with one single sloper to address all of these fit issues. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 21:14:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F1E8IO011311 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:14:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1DN76028650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:13:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1DLC1003813; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:13:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1DIC1003762 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:13:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMR00MA9Y25RE@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:23:40 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re. willowy models In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031014172014.00b082c8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <3F8AEEC9.6000500@reddawn.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:04 PM 10/14/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I >love looking at pattern catalogs, but I always skip the larger sized >patterns because I don't like the designs. I know very well that some >designs are less flattering on certain body types, but larger sized patterns >always look the same to me. I very much agree with the above. I think the designs of the "larger sized" patterns are either a tent or a two piece tent. Sometimes I can find nice designs for the larger woman, or real women, like the Sandra Betzina styles, but most of the time there isn't much there, just basic pattern styles that are rather boring or sack like. That is why I often get the nice patterns in a smaller size and adjust up to what I need. Usually the regular sized nice designs go up to a 14, and I can work from that. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 21:14:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F1EZIO011314 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:14:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1Dj76028670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:13:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1DjC1004069; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:13:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1DIC3003762 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:13:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMR00MA9Y25RE@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:41:51 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Just one more question? In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031014172732.02f8c708@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 06:18 PM 10/14/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Where do you think Simplicity should offer this information - even a bit is >better than none - so that it would be accessible to people who are >interested? We can't get any more information into the envelope. My >patterns and their instructions always cram every last inch. We usually >have to leave out the alternate sleeve or the Plan B collar treatment or >something due to space. Where might people read this sort of thing? If I may give my suggestion. Combine two areas, a web site with pdf files for those on the Internet, and a physical mailing address or phone number for those who aren't Internet inclined to get more info. And I wanted to comment on why having this info is important to costumers, especially newbies. When I first started into costume making for Ren Faires (1987), there wasn't anything beyond Folkwear patterns for the basic bodice I needed (the Austrian Dirndle), and at that time, Folkwear was going out of business, so finding them was hard. What info I got from their patterns was much more than anything I learned from other costumers I was learning from. Times have changed and I am more savvy to the historical aspects of historical garments. There is more info available now, if you look for it, or know where to look for it. But when people are first learning how to create historical garments for the Renaissance Faires or other events, having a pattern and some notes on where that pattern came from is a big boon. It is a great first step for people new to sewing or new to costume sewing. In time, they may want to branch out and learn more info on how to make their garments more historical, improving their knowledge and their skills. But if Simplicity were to offer some basic info on their historical garments, it would be a great first step for many. Not to mention that as a selling point, more info like this may translate into greater sales as people turn to Simplicity for their costuming needs, knowing they are getting more than just a tissue pattern. Especially if a way could be made to add in an insert page with the historical info. And I personally would love to know the historical info on the Victorian garment line you have created. My field of knowledge is 16th c, so my branching out into the Victorian era means learning some new things. Just cause I know how to make a farthingale, doesn't mean I know how to make those Victorian oval hoops, or even the why of their oval design. my two pesos, Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 21:14:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F1EtIO011319 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:14:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1E276028695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1E0C1004229; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1DJC1003785 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:13:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMR00MA9Y25RE@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:13:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:13:23 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] Just one more question? In-reply-to: <00ac01c392a5$9dde0c20$186453d8@Kass> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031014174602.02f966c8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kass McGann wrote: <> I think Kass brings up some good points, which I can agree with. However, I also believe that historical costumers are from a broad spectrum of needs. At one end are those who want the costumes to look "right enough", but aren't concerned with the warp and weft count of the original piece. At the other end of that spectrum are people, like Kass, who are very concerned with the fine historical details. And people who range everywhere in between. I think I am in the middle of that spectrum. I am learning more about historical costumes, and have gone beyond the basics of a simple Ren garment. I create my own patterns from scratch, because I had to. I now have the skill to custom design patterns for members of my guild, but those ladies would prefer to continue to use tried and true commercial patterns they already have, even if it isn't properly period. Why? Because they have the patterns and they like them. And they want to work from already made patterns if at all possible. My group chatted up quite a bit at a recent event about the cute Toddler's Renaissance pattern (#5517), because we have toddlers in our group who would look adorable in those outfits, including my own who I had already made an appropriate outfit for, from scratch. I like the pattern enough. It is simple, and I won't have to try and fine-measure my squirming toddler to make the garment. I know I will be modifying it a bit to make it a two piece, but I also find that toddlers are a bit harder to make a sloper for, considering they outgrow the sloper in just a few months, if not weeks. I would rather have a company pattern to work from, because then I can deal making an outfit in a larger size, that I currently don't have the measurements for. Anyway, with good planning and research, I think Simplicity can find a balance between giving more details, and yet not too much details. Or if they want and aren't adverse to it, give links to well-known sites where more in-depth information from the in-depth historical costumers can be found, like Kass' site. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 21:32:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F1WTIO011351 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:32:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1VZ76029792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:31:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1VVC1013285; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:31:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1VTC1013243 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:31:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a252.in-tch.com [66.62.107.52]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9F1AjH11215 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:10:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F8CA3FD.85D61490@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:33:49 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition References: <00ae01c391a2$45dbd470$75f5da0c@DT2JBTC21> <00f001c39291$3e4f3f40$0200a8c0@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was there last year, and they said "no." I was actually going to try to sneak a pic. (of the wire frames for the tudor/gable headdresses), but right about then, some idiot in the same section decided to try something similar, only using a nice, bright flash, and they were all over him like cat hair on fabric! --sue David wrote: > > > Also, the MoL does not allow general photography (or sketches, but that > > didn't stop Wayne taking a few notes that were a little sketchlike). > > That's odd...I was just there in August, snapped away like a madwoman with > my digital camera, and no one even gave me a raised eyebrow! > > Pam Dotson > Everett, WA USA > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 21:33:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F1XDIO011355 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:33:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1WL76029832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:32:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1WLC1013705; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:32:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1WJC1013693 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:32:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-50-219.jps.net ([209.165.50.219] helo=pavilion) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A9aWQ-0005nh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:32:18 -0700 Message-ID: <004f01c392bc$bdd3ff00$db32a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00ac01c392a5$9dde0c20$186453d8@Kass> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Just one more question? Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:36:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd have to agree with this. Although I would love all the research details to go along with the pattern, I know the price of the pattern would have to jump. Historic costumers would be able to see the relationship to the research and the price of the more costly pattern, but I suspect most of your customers would not and I think you might risk antagonizing them. If you included just some basics such as time period and inspiration for the garment, and maybe have in your suggested fabrics sections divisions for classes that would be nice, more than that you are entering into an entirely different market. Then again, some small pattern makers are successful in this niche so maybe the market is bigger than we suspect. Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 3:50 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Just one more question? > Martha Kelly wrote: > < even more than the women, to trust the provenance of historic > patterns... Where do you think Simplicity should offer this information > - even a bit is better than none - so that it would be accessible to > people who are interested?>> > > Frankly, Martha, I don't think Simplicity shouldn't try to be all things > to all people. I was thrilled that your company was making a foray into > better costumes. But to delving into historical clothing is quite > another story. Are you really intending on including 10 pages of > historical notes and reproductions of period artwork and sketches of > museum pieces with every pattern? Because that's what reenactors want. > Are you going to include information on the weave and thread count of > the fabric from which the museum original was made and suggestions on > where to buy modernly-produced fabric that will pass? Will you go into > the details of period stitches and which were used on the garments > studied and why? This is the kind of detail we crave. I don't think > that's something Simplicity can afford to do and still mass market their > patterns. > > Saying, "Based on an original in the Metropolitan Museum" (as Folkwear > does) is one thing. But the detail we desire is too much with which a > commercial pattern company to concern itself. You'd be boring most of > your audience to get the attention of a few who would probably draft > their own patterns from scratch anyway. > > Kass McGann > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 21:34:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F1YmIO011359 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:34:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1Xp76029935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:33:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1XpC1014422; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:33:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1XmC1014356 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:33:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a252.in-tch.com [66.62.107.52]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9F1D4H12225 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:13:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F8CA489.9ED2E5DE@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:36:09 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] PATTERN STORAGE References: <3F8B4FC4.3060201@thibault.org> <20894.199.50.29.40.1066142368.squirrel@webmail.io.com> <48151.199.50.29.40.1066147581.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have so far resisted that temptation, thankyouverymuch! --sue Chiara wrote: > Not to mention Penny who has a library to maintain for those of us that > use it for those really pretty things she has been finding that are > anywhere from 75 to 100 years old. :) Have you all seen her new embroidery > pattern collection?!? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 21:50:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F1orIO011380 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:50:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1nt76001092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:49:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1nsC1022444; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:49:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1nqC1022424 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:49:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMR007TZZQYRD@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:49:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:50:50 -0700 From: Kimiko Small X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031014184956.02f97488@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [h-cost] Re: Tudor gable headdresses, was V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I have a Tudor dress based on Jane Seymour's artwork, I meant to say, on the portrait of Jane Seymour. I better go have dinner and jumpstart my brain again with food. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 21:54:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F1sBIO011388 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:54:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1rO76001298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:53:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1rOC1024105; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:53:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1rKC1024083 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:53:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip147.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.147]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6175B6A70F for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:53:19 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:53:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Just one more question? Message-ID: <3F8C4626.10128.F86BC97@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Where do you think Simplicity should offer this information - even a > bit is better than none - so that it would be accessible to people who > are interested? We can't get any more information into the envelope. > My patterns and their instructions always cram every last inch. We > usually have to leave out the alternate sleeve or the Plan B collar > treatment or something due to space. Where might people read this sort > of thing? Excellent question. I think that it would probably be good to have it perhaps on the main Simplicity website (with the site URL plainly on the envelope.) People already go there to look for things, why not add a "historical reference" section. Websites are a lot less expensive to put information on than anything like the pattern, the envelope or a separate book. If it's done as a PDF, it can be made so that you can't just copy from it. And for those who are not web access endowed, a place where they can write for the information. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 21:54:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F1sXIO011391 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:54:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1mQ76000957 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:48:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1mOC1021790; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:48:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F1mLC1021769 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:48:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMR007LIZOKRD@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:48:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:46:47 -0700 From: Kimiko Small In-reply-to: <3F8CA3FD.85D61490@in-tch.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031014184350.02f8c708@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <00ae01c391a2$45dbd470$75f5da0c@DT2JBTC21> <00f001c39291$3e4f3f40$0200a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses, was V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:33 PM 10/14/2003 -0600, you wrote: >I was actually going to try to sneak a pic. (of the wire frames for the >tudor/gable headdresses), Perk? Wire frames for Tudor gables? ohhh... too bad, I would love to see how those frames are done. Been trying to figure out Tudor gables, and all I have to work on, besides the artwork, is Herbert Norris' book, and, well, I am not sure how accurate that info might be. Anyone have any further info on Tudor gable headdresses? I have a Tudor dress based on Jane Seymour's artwork, and would love to enhance it further with the right hat. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 22:06:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F26fIO011426 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:06:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F25u76001778 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:05:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F25svk029606; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:05:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F25qvk029591 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:05:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip147.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.147]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4042B6A449 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:00:56 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:06:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing Message-ID: <3F8C4928.9490.F927A93@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <329BDE32.35DDF134.02708BA2@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > But it means > that if I decide I want to work with that particular pattern, I know > that going in that I'll have to shorten the waist, and can make the > adjustments early on, before I hack into the silk charmeuse. Eeeek! You mean you don't make a muslin first just to make sure it fits the way you expect? I guess I learned long ago not to trust commercial patterns. ;) And I've figured for the past 29 years that if I was going to go to that kind of effort, unless it was a specific feature of a dress I wanted to use, I might as well draft it from scratch. I still thank TPTB who put a home ec major in the room next to mine. While she frequently blocked the way out of my room when she was trying to draft her patterns in the hallway, learning that there was actually a system for doing this rather than having to figure it all out on my own. (I'd been adapting patterns for 5 years at that point and drape drafting some things without any instruction. Having a book on pattern drafting by the flat pattern method made it *much* easier.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 22:07:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F276IO011429 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:07:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F26E76001794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:06:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F26Dvk029806; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:06:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F26Bvl029790 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:06:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9F27iT0025730 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:07:45 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9F27g7J025728 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:07:42 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:07:41 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <00f001c39291$3e4f3f40$0200a8c0@comcast.net> <3F8CA3FD.85D61490@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <3F8CA3FD.85D61490@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310142207.41870.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 14 October 2003 09:33 pm, Sue Clemenger wrote: > I was there last year, and they said "no." > I was actually going to try to sneak a pic. (of the wire frames for the > tudor/gable headdresses), but right about then, some idiot in the same > section decided to try something similar, only using a nice, bright > flash, and they were all over him like cat hair on fabric! Ah. That indicates that the V&A's issue was not with the taking of images, but with the use of flash--i.e., bright light. In general, keepers of textiles rigorously control the temperature, humidity, and light conditions under which they display their specimens, for obvious reasons. -- Cathy Raymond "Adult life seems to be a cross between a zen koan and a cattle stampede." --Ozy and Millie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 22:11:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F2BNIO011435 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:11:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F2AU76002012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:10:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F2AUvk002345; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:10:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F2ASvk002340 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:10:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip147.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.147]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE1CD6A60B for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:10:26 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:10:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses, was V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Message-ID: <3F8C4A38.13641.F96A180@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3F8CA3FD.85D61490@in-tch.com> In-reply-to: <5.2.1.1.0.20031014184350.02f8c708@64.87.54.245> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Anyone have any further info on Tudor gable headdresses? I have a > Tudor dress based on Jane Seymour's artwork, and would love to enhance > it further with the right hat. Jean Waddie had (I haven't looked recently) an excellent website with directions for making a gabled hood. She also had (at one point, although I don't remember if it was on the website or one she sent me) pictures of a couple of the wires from the MOL. (I have a full set of ones that I shot in a private appointment, but I told them I wouldn't give it out in any sort of publication. And since I want to go back and do another appointment someday, I don't want to accidently piss them off.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 22:18:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F2I7IO011453 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:18:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F2HF76002317 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:17:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F2HEvk005306; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:17:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F2HBvk005280 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:17:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip147.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.147]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F19696A7D4 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:12:15 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:17:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Message-ID: <3F8C4BCC.21067.F9CCDD2@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3F8CA3FD.85D61490@in-tch.com> In-reply-to: <200310142207.41870.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > On Tuesday 14 October 2003 09:33 pm, Sue Clemenger wrote: > > I was there last year, and they said "no." > > I was actually going to try to sneak a pic. (of the wire frames for > > the tudor/gable headdresses), but right about then, some idiot in > > the same section decided to try something similar, only using a > > nice, bright flash, and they were all over him like cat hair on > > fabric! > > Ah. That indicates that the V&A's issue was not with the taking of > images, but with the use of flash--i.e., bright light. In general, > keepers of textiles rigorously control the temperature, humidity, and > light conditions under which they display their specimens, for obvious > reasons. My experience with the V&A is that they were less concerned about flash than having to have enough lighting in general for taking pictures. And tripods were right out. (I got special permission to use flash. And even with the letter in my hand the guard still called her supervisor to make sure.) Most of their stuff is behind UV protection. (Which is why they allowed flash in the exhibits but not during the private appointments.) The flash probably just alerted them to the camera. However, if they said "no pictures" it was probably because it was on loan from somewhere. They (at least in 1999, so it may have changed) usually allowed non-tripod photography unless it was a loaner exhibit. Then there was *absolutely* no photography. (Did they perhaps borrow the MOL's 16th Century headdress wire collection?) At the Frick museum in NY City you had to check in even a small purse to make sure that you didn't have a camera snuck in. (That's probably the most stringent of any of the museums I've ever been to so far.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 22:23:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F2NVIO011472 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:23:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F2Ml76002566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:22:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F2Mkvk007677; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:22:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F2Mhvk007638 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:22:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.170]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id h9F2nbV09426 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:49:37 +1000 Message-ID: <010601c392c4$04f7cd60$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00f001c39291$3e4f3f40$0200a8c0@comcast.net> <3F8CA3FD.85D61490@in-tch.com> <200310142207.41870.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:28:24 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cathy, I wasn't talking about the V&A, who have a wonderful "photos, but no flash" policy. The Museum of London was the 'no photos, never ever, or we'll have to shoot you' one. (yes, that's actually what we were told!) Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- > > Ah. That indicates that the V&A's issue was not with the taking of images, > but with the use of flash--i.e., bright light. > -- > Cathy Raymond > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 22:39:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F2dOIO011505 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:39:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F2cd76003399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:38:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F2cbvk015451; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:38:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F2cZvl015429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:38:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9F2eAT0025955 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:40:10 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9F2eAT1025953 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:40:10 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:40:09 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3F8CA3FD.85D61490@in-tch.com> <3F8C4BCC.21067.F9CCDD2@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3F8C4BCC.21067.F9CCDD2@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310142240.09862.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 14 October 2003 10:17 pm, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > On Tuesday 14 October 2003 09:33 pm, Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > I was there last year, and they said "no." > > > I was actually going to try to sneak a pic. (of the wire frames for > > > the tudor/gable headdresses), but right about then, some idiot in > > > the same section decided to try something similar, only using a > > > nice, bright flash, and they were all over him like cat hair on > > > fabric! [snip] > My experience with the V&A is that they were less concerned about > flash than having to have enough lighting in general for taking > pictures. And tripods were right out. (I got special permission to > use flash. And even with the letter in my hand the guard still called > her supervisor to make sure.) ? This confuses me. Why should they care whether you had enough light to take pictures for yourself? I can see why they might ban taking pictures (IP issues) or using flash (light damage issues), but if they decided to permit picture-taking at all, why should they care about the effect of the light conditions? > Most of their stuff is behind UV protection. (Which is why they > allowed flash in the exhibits but not during the private > appointments.) > > The flash probably just alerted them to the camera. However, if they > said "no pictures" it was probably because it was on loan from > somewhere. They (at least in 1999, so it may have changed) usually > allowed non-tripod photography unless it was a loaner exhibit. Then > there was *absolutely* no photography. (Did they perhaps borrow the > MOL's 16th Century headdress wire collection?) Interesting. Thanks, Kat, for the correction. > At the Frick museum in NY City you had to check in even a small purse > to make sure that you didn't have a camera snuck in. (That's probably > the most stringent of any of the museums I've ever been to so far.) Now *this* is the kind of behavior I normally expect from museums. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Adult life seems to be a cross between a zen koan and a cattle stampede." --Ozy and Millie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 22:47:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F2lhIO011516 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:47:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F2kr76003923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:46:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F2kqvk019246; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:46:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F2kjvl019194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:46:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9F2mAT0026004 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:48:12 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9F2m7h0026000 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:48:07 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re. willowy models Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:48:06 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <024f01c3921b$8cc50400$0400a8c0@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <024f01c3921b$8cc50400$0400a8c0@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310142248.06621.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 14 October 2003 02:22 am, Penny Ladnier wrote: [snip] > One thing to consider is that certain time periods look better on a heavier > person than a thin person. I love to see a pigeon breast gown on a heavier > lady. It takes a lot of padding for a thinner woman and it just doesn't > look as good as a heavier woman. Right. And there are periods in which being tall, or at least slender in proportion to one's height, is key. I look ghastly in the large-sleeved styles of the 1890's, because they were not geared for my petite, short-waisted and compact figure. [snip] > The big shift to women having a thin silhouette came about in 20s. Patou > tried it in the pre-war era and it wasn't the right time. In the book > there is much discussion about art and fashion mixing. Premiere artists > were designing for the theater and it carried over into the mainstream > fashion. If you look at a lot of art deco the women are very elongated. > This was part of the look of the style of art. By 1925, the end of the art > deco movement, women's fashions were very straight and elongated. Though, ironically, the average woman was not all that slender, as photographs of women in bathing suits of the period and chorus-style dancers remind us. -- Cathy Raymond "Adult life seems to be a cross between a zen koan and a cattle stampede." --Ozy and Millie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 23:20:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F3K4IO011566 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:20:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F3JF76005435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:19:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F3JDxw003902; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:19:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F3JBxx003876 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:19:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9F3KkT0026158 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:20:46 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9F3KkWN026156 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:20:46 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:20:46 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200310142207.41870.cathy@thyrsus.com> <010601c392c4$04f7cd60$eaf4fea9@glendaii> In-Reply-To: <010601c392c4$04f7cd60$eaf4fea9@glendaii> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310142320.46023.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 14 October 2003 10:28 pm, Glenda Robinson wrote: > Cathy, > > I wasn't talking about the V&A, who have a wonderful "photos, but no flash" > policy. > > The Museum of London was the 'no photos, never ever, or we'll have to shoot > you' one. (yes, that's actually what we were told!) Sorry, I misunderstood. The MOL policy you've just described, though, is what I typically expect of museums in general. The V&A's policy is more interesting to me because it diverges from what I thought was the norm. -- Cathy Raymond "Adult life seems to be a cross between a zen koan and a cattle stampede." --Ozy and Millie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 14 23:49:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F3neIO011630 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:49:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F3n176006929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F3n0xw017446; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:49:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F3mtxw017421 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:48:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08814 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:12:44 -0500 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:12:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition In-Reply-To: <200310142320.46023.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > The MOL policy you've just described, though, is what I typically > expect of museums in general. The V&A's policy is more interesting to > me because it diverges from what I thought was the norm. I have taken hundreds, maybe thousands of pictures in multiple museums in London, Paris, Brussels, Bruges, Tournai, Ghent, Antwerp, and Madrid, not to mention Chicago, Los Angeles, Baltimore, and Washington (just to name the places that spring to mind first). The only place I can remember where photography was not allowed was in a small private collection in Madrid (Galerie Lazaro, IIRC). Interestingly, one of the curators passed by me while I was sketching a picture and asked what I was doing. When I told him -- and explained that I had to sketch because photos were not allowed -- he said, "Oh, you're a real scholar, not a tourist! You can take pictures if you want." (I had no Spanish, so this conversation took place via translation by my traveling companion -- a Norwegian. I have no idea how she might have embellished my explanation!) I know I have been lucky, and perhaps things have changed in the last few years; I haven't done much traveling since 9/11. But I did want to note that my experience has been that photos are allowed more often than not. I do not recall whether I considered taking photos at the MoL, which I last visited in, hmm, 1990. I have no photos from there, so perhaps they did have the policy in place then, in which case I would have respected it. (I had tried to arrange for an appointment to see the textile finds on that trip, but the curator then in charge of them was not available during my stay in London.) I can't recall any other museum offhand where I've run into an outright photo ban, though I'm sure there must have been some, or I wouldn't have developed my habit of checking in advance. Certainly the number of museums and collections in which I was allowed to photograph have outnumbered the ones with bans by a large proportion. I should note that I do not use a flash or tripod. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 00:44:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F4i4IO011810 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 00:44:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F4hG76009232 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:43:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F4h8tm011227; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:43:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F4h5tm011204 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:43:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.249.181.37] (pool181-22.patriot.net [209.249.181.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9F4h1Gd013168 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 00:43:03 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 00:41:27 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin wrote, >I do not recall whether I considered taking photos at the MoL, which >I last visited in, hmm, 1990. I visited stockings in the Museum of London, V&A, Nottingham, and Bath, in 2001. I did not use a flash, either, and was allowed to take photographs. These were all research appointments. There was one museum in the US that I visited where the light was too low, and they would not allow the flash. The curator did, however, put the stocking on a xerox machine & I got a very clear image with all the stitches visible. With most museums, I had to sign an agreement that I would not publish the photos without additional written permission. I can do slide lectures, though. Anyone want to hear about 18th century hosiery? :-) -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 00:55:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F4thIO011876 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 00:55:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F4t276009654 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F4t1Uq016419; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:55:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F4svtn016372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:54:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9F4uWT0026421 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 00:56:32 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9F4uW6m026419 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 00:56:32 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 00:56:32 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310150056.32422.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 15 October 2003 12:41 am, Carol Kocian wrote: > Robin wrote, [snip] > There was one museum in the US that I visited where the light > was too low, and they would not allow the flash. The curator did, > however, put the stocking on a xerox machine & I got a very clear > image with all the stitches visible. This absolutely baffles me. Why no flash, if you're willing to put the item on a photocopier and expose it to equally bright light for even longer? Comments, anyone? -- Cathy Raymond "Adult life seems to be a cross between a zen koan and a cattle stampede." --Ozy and Millie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 01:06:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F56wIO011912 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 01:06:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F56G76010184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:06:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F56EUq021769; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:06:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F56BUq021691 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:06:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([209.204.72.76]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 01:04:00 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 01:06:13 -0400 Message-ID: <00b801c392da$0edf8000$186453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carol asked: <> Well, yeah! Did you by any chance see any non-knitted pieces? Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 01:50:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F5orIO011994 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 01:50:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F5oA76011685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:50:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F5o7Uq010845; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:50:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F5o5Uq010813 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:50:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMS008LNATS1I@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:49:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:50:00 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses, was V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition In-reply-to: <3F8C4A38.13641.F96A180@localhost> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031014224127.02f9bb98@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031014184350.02f8c708@64.87.54.245> <3F8CA3FD.85D61490@in-tch.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Kat, With your info, I was able to find the site via google: http://www.montgomerie.demon.co.uk/enghood/enghood1.htm Very in depth info, and I am going to print the pages out to make the "English Hood". After I finish working the gloves, I will be making this hood. {doing a happy dance} Kimiko At 07:10 PM 10/14/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Jean Waddie had (I haven't looked recently) an excellent website with >directions for making a gabled hood. She also had (at one point, >although I don't remember if it was on the website or one she sent >me) pictures of a couple of the wires from the MOL. (I have a full >set of ones that I shot in a private appointment, but I told them I >wouldn't give it out in any sort of publication. And since I want to >go back and do another appointment someday, I don't want to >accidently piss them off.) > >Kat > Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 03:15:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F7FNIO007738 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 03:15:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F7Ed76014561 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 01:14:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F7EbMT015715; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 01:14:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F7EWMT015690 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 01:14:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p19-max5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.207.147] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A9frZ-0005XK-00; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:14:30 +1300 Message-ID: <012001c392eb$fdeaf6f0$93cfadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00ac01c392a5$9dde0c20$186453d8@Kass> <004f01c392bc$bdd3ff00$db32a5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Just one more question? Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:14:35 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Frankly, Martha, I don't think Simplicity shouldn't try to be all things > > to all people. I was thrilled that your company was making a foray into > > better costumes. But to delving into historical clothing is quite > > another story. Are you really intending on including 10 pages of > > historical notes and reproductions of period artwork and sketches of > > museum pieces with every pattern? Actually those reenactors would probably be able to delve into the info if they know what the garment was. Stating, we used x y and z as our sourses, in a b c museums/collection is probably as much as is needed on the envelope/pattern intstuctions. This way it's small enough that those not interested can ignore it and not feel they've paid for extraneous material, those int he middle range can find images of the items say online or visiting the museum, and those who want to know materials, thread count, thread twist, dyes etc can go get that information themselves as they know what the garment was. I'm sure most would prefer the hunt and be able to make their own conclusions. I know even if there was a 10 page bit of documentation I'd still go out and find out for myself. I've come across too many assumptions and typos in documentation. I haven't been part of this thread mostly because I draft my own patterns, and learn new techniques in the process. But I do look at them a lot and find a bit of inspiration or ideas to maybe go into another era. I also like to look at pretty things;) The other reason is the sheer cost they are in my country. I started to draft my own after buying a couple of Neue Mode magazines and realising how so many modern clothes can be broken down to a few basic shapes. Then going through miniature pattern books like Janet Arnold's and Evolution in Fashion, Corsets and Crinolines and a few very old books, one of which is well out of copywrite and seems to have been removed from the university library, pity. Anyway being able to see how a garment is cut but laid out on less than A3 size meant I could mentally fold and piece them as I didn't have to have the entire lounge floor clear to spread the pattern pieces out. I did have to add that I adored the sideless surcote and huge gown in turquoise dupioni. It was a really clean dramatic design. I can see why it would put some people off in its fabric consumption (but I love circle skirts so it probably wouldn't for me) and some historical buffs would not appreciate its cut. But it really was a very very lovely dress. If I ever had the chance to get the pattern I would probably grab it. I don't know if I could afford to pay for postage from the US however;) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 03:21:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F7LFIO008605 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 03:21:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F7KI76014682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 01:20:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F7KHMT017824; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 01:20:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F7KEMT017802 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 01:20:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p19-max5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.207.147] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A9fx6-0005Ap-00; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:20:13 +1300 Message-ID: <013501c392ec$cbbd8c00$93cfadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:20:21 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 5:12 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition > > On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > The MOL policy you've just described, though, is what I typically > > expect of museums in general. The V&A's policy is more interesting to > > me because it diverges from what I thought was the norm. > I have taken hundreds, maybe thousands of pictures in multiple museums in > London, Paris, Brussels, Bruges, Tournai, Ghent, Antwerp, and Madrid, not > to mention Chicago, Los Angeles, Baltimore, and Washington (just to name > the places that spring to mind first). The only place I can remember where > photography was not allowed was in a small private collection in Madrid > (Galerie Lazaro, IIRC). This has also been my experience. Though for fewer museums;) I know I was blown away when I was able to take photos at the Louvre in 1997. I got my camera into the v&a as well as a few more on the continent. The only places I've not been able to take photos were the Auckland art gallery, pity, they have a couple of really neat portraits, and Te Papa in Wellington. For Te Papa I was visiting the Lord of the Rings exhibition and we were not allowed to sketch either, which I think is a bit much.... but still. I did manage to get a pen in and take some quick sketches though;) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 03:21:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F7LZIO008658 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 03:21:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F7Ku76014704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 01:20:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F7KtMT018047; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 01:20:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F7KsMT018035 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 01:20:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-238-249.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.238.249]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9F7KnkE026315 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 00:20:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031015001416.05628b10@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 00:16:33 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses, was V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031014184350.02f8c708@64.87.54.245> References: <3F8CA3FD.85D61490@in-tch.com> <00ae01c391a2$45dbd470$75f5da0c@DT2JBTC21> <00f001c39291$3e4f3f40$0200a8c0@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Anyone have any further info on Tudor gable headdresses? I have a Tudor >dress based on Jane Seymour's artwork, and would love to enhance it >further with the right hat. When I was pregnant with my 19-year-old, I did a maternity gown like one in the Thomas More family drawing. I did a gable headdress for it, and liked how it looked, but don't have a digital camera with which to take pictures of it. Do you have a specific question? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 03:32:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F7WuIO012250 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 03:32:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F7WK76015129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 01:32:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F7WHMT022488; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 01:32:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F7WFMT022481 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 01:32:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-24-26-185-51.mn.rr.com [24.26.185.51])h9F7WDLV004974 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:32:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20031015023334.034d2370@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:37:28 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg In-Reply-To: <20031008.195909.-7445679.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Subject: [h-cost] book gloat X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I just have tell people about the book my husband gave me for my birthday (which was in July) yesterday. It is the Lions of Fashion catalogue. http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/English/Pages/Catalouge_shop.htm It is an exhibition catalogue showing men's clothing from the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries. It is a must have for anyone at all interested in men's clothing from these periods. There is even an extant ruff and falling band (which I hadn't know existed) as well as a colour photograph of the Nils Sture (sp?) suit that is in Patterns of Fashion. It is a wonderful think hardcover book and I am so pleased! Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 04:28:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F8SiIO031804 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:28:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F8S676016717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:28:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F8RwTE012837; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:27:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F8RsTE012812 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:27:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h9F8SsA01272.; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:28:54 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:27:50 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:27:36 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Henry VIII" on TV tonight Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've remembered something else that made me laugh, though it's not costume-related. A scene at the Vatican was preceded by a view of the dome of St.Peter's and surrounding buildings, which surely were not built until the next century? Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 05:37:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F9b7IO018496 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 05:37:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F9aL76019373 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 03:36:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F9aJtU003938; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 03:36:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4-svc.business.ntl.com (mta4-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F9aItU003920 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 03:36:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Imedia5043 ([80.1.22.250]) by mta4-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20031015093616.YRBJ21751.mta4-svc.business.ntl.com@Imedia5043> for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:36:16 +0100 Message-ID: <004d01c392ff$c0f2cfc0$fa160150@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:35:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've taken photos in all the uk (inc Scottish) costume museums and standard practice is ok but not for publication and with a high res film so no flash needed. I even managed to take pics at the Castle Howard costume auction last week > With most museums, I had to sign an agreement that I would not > publish the photos without additional written permission. Dawn. Ages Of Elegance makers of historical clothing, uniforms and bridalwear http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 05:49:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9F9nIIO018524 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 05:49:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F9mN76019749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 03:48:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F9mMtU008184; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 03:48:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9F9mItU008158 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 03:48:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lynne-laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.86]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.comESMTP <20031015094817.IMGF12263.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@lynne-laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:48:17 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20031015104650.02437d48@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:48:15 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Henry VIII" on TV tonight In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-518091; boundary="=======410F4934=======" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======410F4934======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-518091; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 09:27 15/10/2003 Kate M Bunting said >I've remembered something else that made me laugh, though it's not >costume-related. A scene at the Vatican was preceded by a view of the >dome of St.Peter's and surrounding buildings, which surely were not >built until the next century? The Dome was designed by Michelangelo and completed by his death in 1564. It was one of his last achievements. The piazza in front was by Bernini, and is wholly seventeenth century. Didn't notice that one, well spotted! I spy a new game. See how many mistakes you can spot! Sadly, that would mean watching it, and I have no intention of going back next week. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE. VANESSA from Awe-Struck --=======410F4934======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-518091 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.525 / Virus Database: 322 - Release Date: 09/10/2003 --=======410F4934======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======410F4934=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 07:43:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FBhPIO018822 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:43:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FBgk76024293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 05:42:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FBgb5g023993; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 05:42:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.thibault.org [66.92.75.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FBgX5h023907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 05:42:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by sergyar.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h9FBoYCj019348 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:50:34 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by sergyar.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:50:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F8D32D1.70206@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:43:13 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] light problems: V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition References: <200310150056.32422.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200310150056.32422.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This absolutely baffles me. Why no flash, if you're willing to put the item > on a photocopier and expose it to equally bright light for even longer? It's probably an education thing. Most of us have heard about the light from a flash being X times a day's exposure of sunlight, because tourists carry flash cameras and so it can be a problem. It's a rare tourist that will carry a photocopy machine. And it may be that the photocopy machine uses somewhat less light than a flash; I don't know. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Education and religion are two things not regulated by supply and demand. The less of either the people have, the less they want. -- Charlotte Observer, 1897 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 08:50:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FCoNIO018975 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:50:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FCmD76027880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 06:48:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FCm98M021952; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 06:48:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FCm58M021920 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 06:48:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.249.181.37] (pool181-53.patriot.net [209.249.181.53]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9FCm2Gd005767 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:48:04 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00b801c392da$0edf8000$186453d8@Kass> References: <00b801c392da$0edf8000$186453d8@Kass> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:48:31 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: RE: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Colonial Williamsburg has three bias-cut linen stockings. I think one is on display in the current exhibit. There was another funky bias cut linen stocking, it actually had some openwork or lace on it. I can't remember the exact details, I think it was early 19thC and/or perhaps an ethnic piece. And I think it was in the Boston MFA. Sorry to be so vague! There weren't a lot of woven hose, but that's what I recall. -Carol >Well, yeah! Did you by any chance see any non-knitted pieces? > >Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 08:55:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FCtQIO019021 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:55:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FCsn76028268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 06:54:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FCsm8M025161; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 06:54:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FCsi8M025127 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 06:54:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.249.181.37] (pool181-53.patriot.net [209.249.181.53]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9FCsSGd009377 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:54:30 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200310150056.32422.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <200310150056.32422.cathy@thyrsus.com> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:54:56 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cathy wrote, >This absolutely baffles me. Why no flash, if you're willing to put the item >on a photocopier and expose it to equally bright light for even longer? I was baffled, myself, but was not going to argue! Things were different in another department of the same museum, so it was not a museum-wide policy. Once they had the xerox, though, they could make a second generation copy and not put the stocking on the copier again. Maybe that was part of the reasoning. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 09:02:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FD22IO019050 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:02:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FD1976028585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:01:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FD18BE028231; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:01:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FD16BE028220 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:01:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104036.uvm.edu [132.198.104.36]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FD15Sv005119 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:01:05 -0400 Message-ID: <3F8D4511.7060304@uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:01:05 -0400 From: Hope Greeenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses, was V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition References: <00ae01c391a2$45dbd470$75f5da0c@DT2JBTC21> <00f001c39291$3e4f3f40$0200a8c0@comcast.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20031014184350.02f8c708@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031014184350.02f8c708@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I didn't take a picture of the gable wires at MOL but did a sketch which you can find here: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/frame1.gif and http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/frame2.gif The wire looked very much like that used for wire hangers, perhaps a bit lighter--think cheap wire hangers from the dry cleaner. You'll also find there (http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/gable.html) a collection of gable headdress images, and the beginnings of some instructions. Based on the wires, I came up with a rather different method of construction that Jean Waddie's. If you are careful about the proportions/measurements around your face you will get a very good fitting headdress, though I'm rethinking the design now a bit. Maybe some day I'll finish that page... - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 09:11:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FDB2IO019080 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:11:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FDAJ76029112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:10:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FDAHBE002910; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:10:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web9404.mail.yahoo.com (web9404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9FDAGBE002896 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:10:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031015131016.13465.qmail@web9404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.78.208.121] by web9404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 06:10:16 PDT Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 06:10:16 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] book gloat To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20031015023334.034d2370@pop-server.mn.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO whooooooo!! the book sounds wonderful!--the description had me drooling on my keyboard! Congrats, Danielle--and Enjoy:) Albra Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: Greetings, I just have tell people about the book my husband gave me for my birthday (which was in July) yesterday. It is the Lions of Fashion catalogue. http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/English/Pages/Catalouge_shop.htm It is an exhibition catalogue showing men's clothing from the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries. It is a must have for anyone at all interested in men's clothing from these periods. There is even an extant ruff and falling band (which I hadn't know existed) as well as a colour photograph of the Nils Sture (sp?) suit that is in Patterns of Fashion. It is a wonderful think hardcover book and I am so pleased! Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 09:16:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FDGBIO019112 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:16:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FDFS76029351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:15:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FDFPBE005583; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:15:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FDFLBE005466 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:15:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m86.in-tch.com [216.166.191.86]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9FCsbH09764 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 06:54:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F8D48F6.94547331@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:17:42 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition References: <3F8CA3FD.85D61490@in-tch.com> <3F8C4BCC.21067.F9CCDD2@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nope. They said "no pictures" of anything. Of course, I'm sure I came off more as your Typical American Tourist than as a Legitimate Historical Costumer or Researcher. The Costume Museum in Bath had a similar policy, but their explanation was "security reasons." (Someone using some sort of camera to take note of where the cameras were and such, I guess.) My digital camera even has a museum setting (non-flash), but it was still no-go at either place... I wasn't asking to take a picture of one particular item, I must admit (because when I asked, I didn't know what I'd be seeing). In retrospect, I believe the stuff I was particularly interested were part of their permanent collections. My friend Jane went particularly nuts over the Cheapside Horde.... --sue kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > Most of their stuff is behind UV protection. (Which is why they > allowed flash in the exhibits but not during the private > appointments.) > > The flash probably just alerted them to the camera. However, if they > said "no pictures" it was probably because it was on loan from > somewhere. They (at least in 1999, so it may have changed) usually > allowed non-tripod photography unless it was a loaner exhibit. Then > there was *absolutely* no photography. (Did they perhaps borrow the > MOL's 16th Century headdress wire collection?) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 11:11:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FFBWIO019645 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:11:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FF9V76008173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:09:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FF9N9q019829; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:09:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.primushost.com (smtp1.primushost.com [209.58.220.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FF9J9r019698 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:09:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp1.primushost.com with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim) id 1A9nDG-00072v-Ek; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:05:22 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 1A9nHu-0003Ed-00; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:10:10 -0400 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:10:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] cleaning white kid gloves In-Reply-To: <004c01c3916c$90a7fe10$76040150@Imedia5043> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Also if it does dry with hard yellow spots they can usually be worked out with your fingers by massaging them. As an aside-- kid gloves that start out sturdy can be washed. I had a pair of wonderful white, butter soft, long kid gloves that had coke spilled on them--I was heartbroken. I washed them and they came out ok (never true white again though, but wearable). But by mistake one of the gloves got mixed up in my laundry and went throught the washer and dryer! I pulled out the shrivelled glove and whetted it and massaged it as it dried and it turned out not half bad. Katy On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Dawn Wood wrote: >you also need to add glycerine to the final rinsing water and when you take >them off to try put them on a soft towel and every so often put them on >gently and ease the leather this will stop them going hard. > >Being a glove maker and collector I've done this several times with no >problems > >Dawn >Ages Of Elegance makers of historical clothing, uniforms and bridalwear >http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 > >> I've heard that a good way to clean kid gloves is to put them on and wash >> your hands with a mild soap while wearing them. > > quite a while, so.... >> > I've just acquired a pair of over-the-elbow length vintage white kid >> > gloves. While they are in generally good condition (soft leather, no >> > rips), they are quite dirty. Does anyone have a good method for >cleaning >> > these? > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 11:22:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FFMkIO019685 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:22:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FFM376009309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:22:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FFM19q000533; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from berlinr.sprint.ca (berlinr.sprint.ca [209.5.194.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FFLw9q000487 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:21:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shooie ([149.99.69.140]) by berlinr.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031015152157.PIJP18383.berlinr.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:21:57 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c39330$0170f880$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:21:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Subject: [h-cost] Troubles X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Would someone let me know if this letter gets through to the list? My server was bouncing all of my mail like crazy this past couple of weeks. I think I have it sorted out, but now I am not receiving mail from any of the lists I am on. Thanks! Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 11:39:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FFdCIO019732 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:39:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FFbF76010813 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:37:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FFbE9q014311; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:37:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FFb59q014137 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:37:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.106]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:34:53 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Troubles Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:37:08 -0400 Message-ID: <004501c39332$32492c50$4c48ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-reply-to: <000b01c39330$0170f880$cb6afea9@shooie> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Received! -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sheridan & Shane Sent: 15 October 2003 11:21 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Troubles Would someone let me know if this letter gets through to the list? My server was bouncing all of my mail like crazy this past couple of weeks. I think I have it sorted out, but now I am not receiving mail from any of the lists I am on. Thanks! Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 12:16:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FGGGIO019921 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:16:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FGDf76014448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:13:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FGDbhp017594; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:13:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FGDWhp017517 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:13:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip51.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.51]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB7146FE5C for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:13:30 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:13:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] light problems: V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Message-ID: <3F8D0FCF.6314.129A764E@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3F8D32D1.70206@thibault.org> References: <200310150056.32422.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > And it may be that the photocopy machine uses somewhat less light than > a flash; I don't know. A photocopy machine actually uses a lot more light than a flash, unfortunately. Very hard on books! Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 12:40:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FGecIO020078 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:40:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FGdb76016987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:39:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FGdZhp012800; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:39:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FGdWhp012731 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:39:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip51.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.51]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BE276F0A5 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:39:29 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:39:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3F8D15E6.21987.12B241DC@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3F8C4BCC.21067.F9CCDD2@localhost> In-reply-to: <200310142240.09862.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Subject: [h-cost] Museum photo policy, was: Re: V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > My experience with the V&A is that they were less concerned about > > flash than having to have enough lighting in general for taking > > pictures. And tripods were right out. (I got special permission to > > use flash. And even with the letter in my hand the guard still > > called her supervisor to make sure.) > > ? This confuses me. Why should they care whether you had enough > light to take pictures for yourself? I can see why they might ban > taking pictures (IP issues) or using flash (light damage issues), but > if they decided to permit picture-taking at all, why should they care > about the effect of the light conditions? It is not your picture taking that is the problem with the light but having the light on in the gallery low enough not to damage the textiles which is not enough light to shoot most pictures. (I usually use the highest ASA slide film available and shoot it so that it gets pushed one more stop. Even then there's often not enough light.) It's why museums sometimes (like at the DeWitt museum at Williamsburg) have generally low light conditions but you can press a button to raise the light level enough to see. In general there is enough light for the usual casual looker (who frankly doesn't need to see much more than an outline of an object) and enough so that you don't hurt yourself, but they want to keep it that low until someone really does want to get a better look. (Or in some museums, not even that.) It's always a good idea to check on policy too. When I went to the MOL in 1999 I was (in their *horrible* low light conditions) trying to take non-tripod pics. (I'm pretty stable and actually got some decent pics with exposures of a minute or more.) The museum guard at one point spotted me and came up and said "you can take flash photos if you want, you know." (Of course, being used to US museums and having gotten permission from the MOL and V&A to use flash under specific conditions, it didn't even dawn on me that they would allow it to just anyone! I didn't even have it with me.) Some in the US allow the use of tripods (which they will rent to you) on specific (non-busy) days if you ask ahead. I was trying to get a shot at the main Metropolitan MOA and a guard came up and told me that I could get a tripod permit easily. (The directions for it sounded like it took an act of Congress and promising a first born child to get a tripod permit. But I didn't know until the guard told me they would rent one to me, so I had decided I didn't want to bother with it since I didn't want to haul my tripod on the plane.) Sadly, because of misuse of information by some unscrupulous person (at least that's *my* interpretation on what happened), they no longer allow photography in many museums (including the MOL, who recently had a major problem which resulted in the policy change) under any circumstance. (Although I suspect/hope that doesn't include people who have made special arrangements.) This is because they need to protect their museum in terms of money. (The artifacts themselves actually do better than many people think with flash according to the museum people I spoke with at both V&A and MOL. It's unauthorized use that is making the policy change.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 12:43:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FGhRIO020090 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:43:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FGgn76017355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:42:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FGgmhp016222; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:42:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.thibault.org [66.92.75.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FGgehq015992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:42:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by sergyar.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h9FGofCj020891 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:50:41 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by sergyar.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:50:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F8D7928.1010800@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:43:20 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] light problems: V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition References: <200310150056.32422.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3F8D0FCF.6314.129A764E@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3F8D0FCF.6314.129A764E@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > A photocopy machine actually uses a lot more light than a flash, > unfortunately. Very hard on books! I'd heard the biggest problems was to the bindings, (not a problem with stockings per this example) but to really know, we'd have to find out the light output of a flash and a standard photocopier and compare them. Then I'd like to compare them with daylight! Who knows how inflated the figures I've heard might be, when passed through several generations of well-meaning docents? However, I'm not sufficiently motivated to hunt them down at the moment; a quick search at the Xerox website didn't turn up specifications. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Education and religion are two things not regulated by supply and demand. The less of either the people have, the less they want. -- Charlotte Observer, 1897 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 12:51:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FGpdIO020134 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:51:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FGor76018138 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:50:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FGophp024420; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:50:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FGomhp024238 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:50:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PallasAMK@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.b2.239649aa (15887) for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:50:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m16.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.132]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v96.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID82-3e0f3f8d7add72; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:50:37 -0400 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:50:37 -0400 From: PallasAMK@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <208BA07A.6756CD13.02708BA2@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 63.251.31.10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9FGomhp024238 Subject: [h-cost] YET More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kat sez: >>   But it means>> that if I decide I want to work with that particular pattern, I know>> that going in that I'll have to shorten the waist, and can make the>> adjustments early on, before I hack into the silk charmeuse. >Eeeek! You mean you don't make a muslin first just to make sure it >fits the way you expect? Me, personally? For some pricey piece of cloth like that? Of course I do--but that was a lesson I learned the hard way, and I don't always do a muslin if the pattern is simple enough (usually office clothes--skirts, tops and stuff), because there at least I can chalk the alterations onto either the pattern or directly on the fabric. I'm speaking in generalities because I know for a fact that a huge number of home stitchers--and not necessarily beginners, either--don't do any of those sorts of things because it doesn't occur to them. Partly, I think, because I don't think the presentation of patterns, at least by the big 3 we were talking about, are set up to encourage the home stitcher to think that way. For example, a couple of weeks ago a friend was having a themed birthday party for her husband-1930s. Hoorah! Luckily for me one of the Vintage Vogue patterns only required a couple of easy adjustments for me (which I made on the pattern--no muslin!), and so I offered to help her put together her dress. She had a pattern--modern, but close enough for a party--a princess seamed halter. She's a big girl--tall and very curvy, and baby got back. I got to her house and she was perusing the envelope. "I guess I'll cut a size 18--but maybe I'd better do the 20 because of my butt." "Why don't we measure the pattern," I said. "Oh, I never do that." "Why?" (I sort of gasped--allthough it explained why she doesn't finish a lot of stuff even though her construction skills are pretty high.) "It just never occurred to me. I wear an 18 or a 20, so it should be fine." At that point I threw myself on the hand-grenade and insisted that we measure the pattern and make a muslin. An! d *what a stunning surprise* the dress fit and she was so happy with it she's making her Christmas dress out of the altered pattern.Now, she's no dope--but it just never occurred to her that the sizes between patterns and OTR clothes don't coincide, and that all the measurements are arbitrary anyway. Another problem with patterns today is that I don't think they have kept up with the changes in their targeted customers. The basic form of purchased patterns has been the same for quite a long time; certainly I have some patterns from the teens that, with the exception of using punched out holes to mark darts, pleats, etc., on the tissue, are virtually unchanged in presentation and approximate level of instruction. But I'd venture a guess that when our mothers and grandmothers learned to sew--or at least when my own did--they were coming from a not-too-distant past of highly fitted, boned and tucked style of clothing that required lots of measuring and altering in order to fit decently--and I'm not talking about the professionally produced garments, but the clothing that was made at home using commercial patterns. My own mother hated to sew, but she knew how and although the things she stitched for us were simple (tent dresses, shifts, shorts, jumpers) she ALWAYS measured us carefully and would alter the patterns with newspaper and tape (!) when needed. Of course, she learned from my grandmother, who was in the Ladies Garment Workers Union, but (and I'm positing here) I'm willing to bet that her experience wasn't that much different from other women in the '30s and '40s--they were taught to sew one-on-one by someone who knew how. Contrast that with the way I learned to sew. Actually, my mother sort of taught me, but I had actual instruction in the 7th grade--one semester of required "home ec" in the LA CIty school district. What I learned: How to make an elastic-waist skirt my taking my hip measurements and adding half again as much (ewwwww! horrible garment). How to make a drawstring gym bag. How to set in a zipper. Everything else I learned on my own--and my bet is that my own experience is typical of many other home stitchers. I learned everything the hard way--through trial and hideous error. And I'm pretty sure that I would have abandoned sewing altogether long ago if I hadn't needed to make my own dress for my first visit to the Renaissance faire, because frankly, most of the clothing I attempted to make for myself ended up as dustrags--the whole process being a torture. The internet has changed a lot of things, and it's easier to get the information you need to do almost anything online--I finally learned how to set an invisible zipper without stupid plastic attachments from a Web site--but I guess my question is, or not a question, really, but more of an observation: Why modern commercial pattern companies don't do more to try to improve the experiences of their customers. Their great untapped market is not the professional or even really advanced seamstress. These are the people who, as noted, draft their own patterns. Their market is the beginning to intermediate home stitcher who uses it as a creative outlet and would LOVE to make more clothes, if only she or he could be statistfied with them. I think that explains a lot of the popularity of quilting--creative, but doesn't have to be fitted to a living body that doesn't conform to the fit model's proportions as translated into the sloper. Contrast that with at least one line of historical patterns: Truly Victorian, which I think is just a great line for beginners, or anyone who doesn't know how to draft. The first thing on the instruction sheet is a section devoted to custom fitting the pattern, and how to make the alterations needed. Brilliant. So what's the big deal about adding such a sheet to a Simplicity or Vogue pattern? Or if the print cost is an issue, why not post it on the Web site? WOuldn't people be more inclined to sew their own clothing if the chances of it turning out right and fitting well were increased? Wouldn't that help to increase profits for the pattern companies, and all other purveyors of sewing paraphernalia? Sheesh, look at all that. Honestly didn't mean to turn this into a rant, but I just get agitated sometimes. Pallas _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 12:52:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FGqJIO020137 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:52:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FGle76017838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:47:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FGlbhp021144; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:47:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FGlXhp021080 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:47:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12986 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:11:23 -0500 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:11:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] For KWCS attendees X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It appears I'll be doing yet another lecture at KWCS this weekend: "The Fifteenth Century V-Necked Gown," which has just been added to the schedule today. Some of you have heard this lecture before; I usually include it in my lecture days, and I presented it at KWCS I in 2000. I know some people have asked about it, so I wanted to give folks a heads-up about the late addition. I am also presenting my two-hour block on "The Gothic Fitted Dress" and "The Greenland Gored Gown," and a research methods lecture on recognizing and understanding Victorian influence in medieval costume research. Full updated class schedule is at http://www.caerthe.org/kwcs/classsched.html Feel free to forward this info elsewhere if you think people would be interested. Hope to meet some h-costumers there... Anyone up for putting a red "H" on your badges? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 13:03:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FH3iIO020164 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:03:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FH2l76019331 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:02:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FH2jPW005275; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:02:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FH2FPW004861 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:02:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id h9FH2FGc015854 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:02:15 -0400 Message-Id: <200310151702.h9FH2FGc015854@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:58:06 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] light problems: V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm vaguely remembering something about movie scripts, I think it was for ET. The director wanted the story line to be secret while filming, and had scripts printed on light sensitive paper. If the script was photocopied, the page would turn a color. I'm thinking, what if the script was in sunlight? Is photocopier light that much more intense? Or perhaps most of the filming was indoors, or the scripts were not taken outside? What I wonder is how different photocopier light is from sunlight that this would work! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 13:38:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FHcYIO020334 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:38:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FHbP76022580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:37:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FHbKPW007599; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:37:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FHbHPW007548 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:37:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip51.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.51]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 682B46A5C4 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:32:18 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:37:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] YET More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing Message-ID: <3F8D2370.17489.12E724BD@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <208BA07A.6756CD13.02708BA2@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Actually, my mother sort > of taught me, but I had actual instruction in the 7th grade--one > semester of required "home ec" in the LA CIty school district. What I > learned: How to make an elastic-waist skirt my taking my hip > measurements and adding half again as much (ewwwww! horrible > garment). How to make a drawstring gym bag. How to set in a zipper. > Everything else I learned on my own--and my bet is that my own > experience is typical of many other home stitchers. I learned > everything the hard way--through trial and hideous error. You still had far more instruction than the average woman coming out of the schools for many years. They aren't expected to take any home ec so sometimes they don't even know how to thread a needle, lay out a pattern (and the pattern layout instructions don't really give them the information they need about what is meant by grainline and why it's important.) They have never used a sewing machine (and many are actually as afraid of them as they would be of a power saw.) They actually do need a level of instruction that most people would find demeaning. (You'd be surprised how much that skirt and gym bag taught you. And they missed out on all that.) > The internet has changed a lot of things, and it's easier to > get the information you need to do almost anything online--I finally > learned how to set an invisible zipper without stupid plastic > attachments from a Web site-- Oooooo, do you have the URL for that. I've been sewing on a sewing machine for 35 years (which coincidently was about the time when invisible zippers first came out on the market) and I still haven't really done it without the plastic guides (or at least, not perhaps correctly.) I'd love to see how they did that! > Why modern commercial > pattern companies don't do more to try to improve the experiences of > their customers. Their great untapped market is not the professional > or even really advanced seamstress. These are the people who, as > noted, draft their own patterns. Their market is the beginning to > intermediate home stitcher who uses it as a creative outlet and would > LOVE to make more clothes, if only she or he could be statistfied with > them. I think Martha's mention of how little room is available in the pattern envelope is a big part of that. It's assumed you have some sewing experience. They used to have some "Very easy" patterns which were meant for the new sewer which had far more directions in them. I haven't looked for that kind of pattern for a long time. > So > what's the big deal about adding such a sheet to a Simplicity or Vogue > pattern? I think from what Martha said (and what I've noticed about patterns) is that the envelope really won't hold another sheet of paper. > Honestly didn't mean to turn this into a rant, but I just get > agitated sometimes. Pallas I think that we are all frustrated by this. We see the options for home sewers and teaching home sewers diminishing and yet the people who would benefit from it the most are leaving it to private individuals in small companies to do it for them. Consequently, people who don't have access to anything but the Big 3 don't get educated and don't buy even Big 3 patterns. It's a downward spiral that is impacting on all of us. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 14:03:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FI3tIO020459 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:03:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FI2m76024970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:02:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FI2kUD000733; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:02:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FI2eUD000616 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:02:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h9FI4H017478 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:04:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:04:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200310151804.h9FI4H017478@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Just one more question? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Kass McGann" wrote: > > Frankly, Martha, I don't think Simplicity shouldn't try to be all things > to all people. I was thrilled that your company was making a foray into > better costumes. But to delving into historical clothing is quite > another story. Are you really intending on including 10 pages of > historical notes and reproductions of period artwork and sketches of > museum pieces with every pattern? Because that's what reenactors want. > Are you going to include information on the weave and thread count of > the fabric from which the museum original was made and suggestions on > where to buy modernly-produced fabric that will pass? Will you go into > the details of period stitches and which were used on the garments > studied and why? This is the kind of detail we crave. I don't think > that's something Simplicity can afford to do and still mass market their > patterns. Be fair. Period Patterns and Truly Victorian are considered excellent historical pattern companies and even _they_ don't go into the level of detail that you've just enumerated. There's no reason to hold Simplicity to a higher standard than the specialty pattern companies. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 14:21:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FIL3IO020521 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:21:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FIJx76026429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:20:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FIJoUD016133; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:19:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FIJkUD015995 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:19:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 346240 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:19:40 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:24:13 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] YET More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3F8D2370.17489.12E724BD@localhost> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I agree with everything that kat said in her response to the previous email. I also have comments. On 10/15/03 10:37 AM, "kat@grendal.rain.com" wrote: > >> Actually, my mother sort >> of taught me, but I had actual instruction in the 7th grade--one >> semester of required "home ec" in the LA CIty school district. What I >> learned: How to make an elastic-waist skirt my taking my hip >> measurements and adding half again as much (ewwwww! horrible >> garment). How to make a drawstring gym bag. How to set in a zipper. >> Everything else I learned on my own--and my bet is that my own >> experience is typical of many other home stitchers. I learned >> everything the hard way--through trial and hideous error. > > You still had far more instruction than the average woman coming out > of the schools for many years. They aren't expected to take any home > ec so sometimes they don't even know how to thread a needle, lay out > a pattern (and the pattern layout instructions don't really give them > the information they need about what is meant by grainline and why > it's important.) They have never used a sewing machine (and many are > actually as afraid of them as they would be of a power saw.) They > actually do need a level of instruction that most people would find > demeaning. (You'd be surprised how much that skirt and gym bag taught > you. And they missed out on all that.) > We too had home ec in junior high school (40+ years ago before home ec was politically incorrect) and that simple blouse I made taught me buttonholes and setting in a sleeve and some handwork that I hadn't learned from the things I made with my mom at home. I hated the blouse but I did learn some valuable skills. My daughters want to sew but didn't want instruction until they realized that one can't learn by osmosis - watching me sew from the time they were quite young, helping me pin and unpin didn't teach them how to make that skirt they wanted for Saturday. As I've sewn while they watched I taught them theory. They understand the *why* of grainline and why one cuts pieces this way rather than that way for drape. They understand how to match a pattern in the fabric onto the pattern pieces but the actual sewing daunts them. (I understand all the rules of football from years of watching, but I'd never play the game.) >> The internet has changed a lot of things, and it's easier to >> get the information you need to do almost anything online--I finally >> learned how to set an invisible zipper without stupid plastic >> attachments from a Web site-- > > Oooooo, do you have the URL for that. I've been sewing on a sewing > machine for 35 years (which coincidently was about the time when > invisible zippers first came out on the market) and I still haven't > really done it without the plastic guides (or at least, not perhaps > correctly.) I'd love to see how they did that! I'd like to have that URL too. I've never found the right attachment to get the da** invisible zipper foot to fit my machine so I've always put them in by hand. It never stopped me, but it would certainly be faster to insert zippers by machine. > > I think Martha's mention of how little room is available in the > pattern envelope is a big part of that. It's assumed you have some > sewing experience. > > They used to have some "Very easy" patterns which were meant for the > new sewer which had far more directions in them. I haven't looked for > that kind of pattern for a long time. > I have noticed that one company has produced a series of patterns (Simplicity?), mostly aimed at the teen, called "Sewing for Dummies", which look just like all the how-to books for computers in the "--- for Dummies" series. Not all the patterns are for teens, and I would hope that non-sewers would use these to improve on their skills. Then again, as written before, a non-sewer might not know that these patterns are available. > > I think that we are all frustrated by this. We see the options for > home sewers and teaching home sewers diminishing and yet the people > who would benefit from it the most are leaving it to private > individuals in small companies to do it for them. Consequently, > people who don't have access to anything but the Big 3 don't get > educated and don't buy even Big 3 patterns. It's a downward spiral > that is impacting on all of us. > > Kat > I agree with this also. And I find that my daughters don't want to learn from me, especially the 17 year old. Moms are usually idiots when it comes to teaching. Thank goodness there are fabric stores out there willing to give sewing classes from the very basics to fancy tailoring where people with an interest can learn. In Berkeley CA, one of the best places to learn is Stone Mountain and Daughter, and I'm sure there's a place like this in most cities. Someone mentioned that many sewers would rather learn to make a quilt where no fitting is required. Quilts are a good start on learning - following a pattern, color, fabric types, accurate seams, grainlines. Just some thoughts. LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 14:33:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FIXOIO020565 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:33:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FIQ176027172 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FIPwUD022014; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:25:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.19.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FIPsUE021871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:25:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-118.sonic.net [209.148.112.118]) (authenticated bits=0)h9FIPkSe011558 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:25:46 -0700 Message-ID: <3F8D91C9.8090808@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:28:25 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] YET More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing References: <208BA07A.6756CD13.02708BA2@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <208BA07A.6756CD13.02708BA2@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, the quality of commercial sewing instructions has improved a lot since the 1930s. The entire history of the commercial pattern industry, since its inception in the early 19th century, has been a series of attempts to improve ease of use by, and therefore sales to, amateur dressmakers. Ease of use has typically included the issues of fit and the quality (and length) of pattern instructions. As for how they taught sewing in the "good old days:: The skills of a seamstress were considered important for most females up until the 1920s or so (when ready-to-wear clothing had become more common than custom made). Girls were taught at home, but also at achool if they went to school, and in public schools as well as fancy boarding schools. I have a number of late 19th- and early 20th-century manuals that consist of lesson plans (what material to present and the words to present it in) and simple patterns (little aprons and suchlike) for teaching young children. My own mother learned basic sewing (even a little embroidery) as a child in public school. Note that dressmaking skills were considered higher level than seamstress skills. Seamstress skills included basic stitches and seams, and making underclothing (typically loosely fitted) and household linens. Dressmaking skills included the ability to design (plan) dresses, to draft a pattern or drastically alter the style and fit of one as needed, and to fit dresses stylishly. Home dressmaking became much more popular after the adoption of the sewing machine. Not all seamstresses had dressmaking skills. But many wanted them, either to make clothes at home more cheaply, or for a living after being widowed or otherwise thrown on the world with few skills. The paper pattern industry was one way to fill the gap, as were magazines with dressmaking articles and patterns, dressmaking manuals, and a variety of 19th-century pattern-making devices such as the "chart" (which enabled the user to trace a "sloper" of any size). As for dressmaking classes (more what we now think of as Home Ec), they were taught in schools by the 1920s, and continued to be taught until--I'm not sure when, maybe the last 10 years or so? The dominance of the ready-to-wear industry, and the fact that few women are career housewives any more, has made them inessential. Personally, my junior high home ec sewing and cooking classes almost put me off both for life. They were quite as much about forcing the girls into their proper role of Womanhood as about teaching any skills. I remember being 12 years old and being drilled about how I should "care for my husband and children." I think that this severe decline in home dressmaking might well have happened earlier than it did, because ready-to-wear, as I said, was so widely worn by the 20s. The Great Depression kept home sewing alive because people desperately needed to make ends meet. World War 2 kept it alive because rationing made it hard for them to get anything to wear. By the 1950s people were tired of making do and mending. Home sewing seems to have been almost a dirty little secret, with 1950s manuals telling the sewer her friends would think her clothes were actually bought. The revival of all kinds of fiber arts in the 1970s changed the image primarily to one of creative self-expression. (Self-expression has always been given as one reason to home sew, but previously the dominant reason seems to have been economy.) The self-expression image has stuck around; it's what gets people buying $5,000 sewing machines they don't know how to use and storing pounds of fabric they'll never have time to use. But people still aren't as interested in sewing as they were in the 1970s, let alone the 19th and early 20th centuries. Anyway, to get back to the modern large paper pattern companies--I think their instructions are better now than in the 1930s and 1940s. As for fit, commercial pattern companies have always had a bit of an image problem there. A major selling point has always (even traditionally) been that the pattern fits. If you buy the right size you don't have to alter it, or at most any alterations are easy. Also, these days both ready-to-wear and pattern companies get around some fitting issues by promoting loosely fitted styles. Yet, no size pattern can possibly fit every body type. The big pattern companies each used to publish a sewing manual that discussed fitting (among other things) in more detail. I have old editions of these manuals; have the companies kept them up? I don't make modern clothes any more because they're not very interesting to sew. Although I'm thinking about starting again, since for several years the redy-to-wear selection has been very unappealing to me. Anyway, I wish the pattern companies would put out more petite styles--that is, for short people. I am pretty close to an average shape as modern pattern companies see it, if I adjust the waist, skirt, and sleeve lengths. (I even have to adjust the length on petite patterns.) But necklines, patch pockets, things like that tend to look out of proportion, too big, in the wrong place. Sure, I can rework all that but--isn't the point of buying the pattern that you don't need to draft it? For what I hope will be quickie projects that will get me something to wear that isn't either black or charcoal gray, there's only so much trouble I want to take. Fran >t think they have kept up with the changes in their targeted customers. The basic form of purchased patterns has been the same for quite a long time; certainly I have some patterns from the teens that, with the exception of using punched out holes to mark darts, pleats, etc., on the tissue, are virtually unchanged in presentation and approximate level of instruction. But I'd venture a guess that when our mothers and grandmothers learned to sew--or at least when my own did--they were coming from a not-too-distant past of highly fitted, boned and tucked style of clothing that required lots of measuring and altering in order to fit decently--and I'm not talking about the professionally produced garments, but the clothing that was made at home using commercial patterns. >My own mother hated to sew, but she knew how and although the things she stitched for us were simple (tent dresses, shifts, shorts, jumpers) she ALWAYS measured us carefully and would alter the patterns with newspaper and tape (!) when needed. Of course, she learned from my grandmother, who was in the Ladies Garment Workers Union, but (and I'm positing here) I'm willing to bet that her experience wasn't that much different from other women in the '30s and '40s--they were taught to sew one-on-one by someone who knew how. >Contrast that with the way I learned to sew. Actually, my mother sort of taught me, but I had actual instruction in the 7th grade--one semester of required "home ec" in the LA CIty school district. > > -- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 15:20:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FJKJIO020940 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:20:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FJDE76002460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:13:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FJD7vZ005881; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:13:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FJD5vZ005837 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:13:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1A9r4y-0003p7-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:13:04 +0100 Message-ID: <2XKLjDCbcSj$Iwj2@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:53:15 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses, was V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition References: <3F8CA3FD.85D61490@in-tch.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20031014184350.02f8c708@64.87.54.245> <3F8C4A38.13641.F96A180@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3F8C4A38.13641.F96A180@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The website is still up, at http://www.montgomerie.demon.co.uk/enghood/enghood1.htm I wouldn't claim this is the way real gable hoods were made, but it comes out with the right look. I'm sorry, I have lost the electronic pictures of the MOL wires. Jean kat@grendal.rain.com wrote > >> Anyone have any further info on Tudor gable headdresses? I have a >> Tudor dress based on Jane Seymour's artwork, and would love to enhance >> it further with the right hat. > >Jean Waddie had (I haven't looked recently) an excellent website with >directions for making a gabled hood. She also had (at one point, >although I don't remember if it was on the website or one she sent >me) pictures of a couple of the wires from the MOL. (I have a full >set of ones that I shot in a private appointment, but I told them I >wouldn't give it out in any sort of publication. And since I want to >go back and do another appointment someday, I don't want to >accidently piss them off.) > >Kat > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 15:48:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FJmCIO021073 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:48:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FJTg76003997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:29:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FJTcvZ021239; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:29:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.19.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FJTYva021123 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:29:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-118.sonic.net [209.148.112.118]) (authenticated bits=0)h9FJTRSe021936 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:29:28 -0700 Message-ID: <3F8DA0B6.7050409@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:32:06 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Just one more question? References: <200310151804.h9FI4H017478@gw.retro.com> In-Reply-To: <200310151804.h9FI4H017478@gw.retro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Be fair. Period Patterns and Truly Victorian are considered excellent >historical pattern companies and even _they_ don't go into the level of >detail that you've just enumerated. There's no reason to hold Simplicity >to a higher standard than the specialty pattern companies. > > For hardcore historic costumers, an entire book accompanying each pattern might not say enough. But "what reenactors want" depends on the individual reenactor. Many are beginners or not that committed to reenacting. And there are many who want to reenact primarily to pursue activities not related to costume. They just want to wear something plausible so they can enjoy the event or pursue those other activities. There is room for both types of reenactor and for products geared to both types. Fran ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 15:52:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FJqcIO021105 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:52:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FJpo76006327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:51:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FJpmvZ011355; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:51:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FJpjvZ011292 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:51:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([209.204.72.21]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:49:32 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Just one more question? Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:51:47 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c39355$c5ddb350$1548ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <200310151804.h9FI4H017478@gw.retro.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Be fair. Period Patterns and Truly Victorian are considered excellent historical pattern companies and even _they_ don't go into the level of detail that you've just enumerated. There's no reason to hold Simplicity to a higher standard than the specialty pattern companies. >>>> Why not? I do. =) Kass McGann Reconstructing History Patterns _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 16:07:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FK7sIO021134 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:07:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FK7576007899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:07:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FK73SR025156; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:07:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FK6pSR024856 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:06:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 204.127.197.114 ([204.127.197.114]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003101520064601300fs5cee>; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:06:46 +0000 Received: from [198.178.8.81] by 204.127.197.114; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:06:42 +0000 From: eirenetz@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] For KWCS attendees Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:06:42 +0000 Message-ID: 101520032006.8871.1d2d@comcast.net X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Sep 30 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWlyZW5ldHpAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Hope to meet some h-costumers there... Anyone up for putting a red "H" on > your badges? > I'll see if I can find a stamp or sticker or something. :-) Eirene _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 16:23:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FKNQIO021190 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:23:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FKMU76009247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:22:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FKMPSR009938; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:22:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-f76.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.245.76]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FKKqSR008202 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:20:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:20:41 -0700 Received: from 12.23.71.188 by by1fd.bay1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:20:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.23.71.188] X-Originating-Email: [elizabethstewartclark@hotmail.com] From: "Elizabeth Clark" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:20:40 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Oct 2003 20:20:41.0482 (UTC) FILETIME=[CE0CBEA0:01C39359] Subject: [h-cost] Big Three Rants X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One thing I notice with Big Three patterns is that every element has a pattern piece--including huge rectangles for skirts. Need to find more room in the pattern envelope? Teach how to measure and rip rectangles in the instructions, and skip printing the pieces. (I know, not likely to happen. LOL) I don't consider patterns the be-all, end-all of instruction: that's what sewing books are for. With the good old Reader's Digest Sewing Encyclopedia (circa 1965-ish) and my mom's old New Home, I managed to teach myself to sew at age nine. I used patterns only for sizing (and only until I learned draping at 14). No real solutions from me, I guess. Martha's patterns are a huge leap forward for the Big Three, but can't go as far as, say, Past Patterns, because of the limitations of bulk production on that scale. They're excellent costume patterns, but don't quite make the jump to fully historic patterns for me, mostly because of the modern things Simplicity inserted into the original designer's work--like snaps. :-( Having on-line documentation would be great, but a person still needs to be doing their own research to make sure the item is appropriate for THEM, not just for the era, if they are wanting fully accurate historic clothing. Regards, Elizabeth http://www.elizabethstewartclark.com _________________________________________________________________ Enjoy MSN 8 patented spam control and more with MSN 8 Dial-up Internet Service. Try it FREE for one month! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 17:59:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FLxIIO021733 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:59:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FLwG76018081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:58:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FLw9x5008942; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:58:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FLw4x5008834 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:58:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1A9ted-000Ivr-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:58:03 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:56:54 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses, was V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition References: <00ae01c391a2$45dbd470$75f5da0c@DT2JBTC21> <00f001c39291$3e4f3f40$0200a8c0@comcast.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20031014184350.02f8c708@64.87.54.245> <3F8D4511.7060304@uvm.edu> In-Reply-To: <3F8D4511.7060304@uvm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Hope, I found your different technique interesting, especially the way you manage to get the box at the back. My full frame was partly designed for robustness in transport, because an earlier version did end up a bit battered after a while. Am I reading your instructions for the tails right, that they are just sewn on the bottom edge of the box? The pictures I have seen of the back of a hood all seem to show seams across the diagonals of the box. Or is that something you were planning to tackle in the second version? Jean Hope Greeenberg wrote >I didn't take a picture of the gable wires at MOL but did a sketch >which you can find here: >http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/frame1.gif and >http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/frame2.gif > >The wire looked very much like that used for wire hangers, perhaps a >bit lighter--think cheap wire hangers from the dry cleaner. > >You'll also find there (http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/gable.html) a >collection of gable headdress images, and the beginnings of some >instructions. Based on the wires, I came up with a rather different >method of construction that Jean Waddie's. If you are careful about the >proportions/measurements around your face you will get a very good >fitting headdress, though I'm rethinking the design now a bit. Maybe >some day I'll finish that page... > >- Hope > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 18:39:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FMdVIO021976 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 18:39:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FMcl76021346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:38:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FMcix5014117; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:38:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FMcfx5014087 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:38:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.121.242.134] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABC39690154; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:35:47 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:41:00 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] You have the ear of Simplicity Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I completly agree with the idea of a complete size chart. That would >be fantastic! I measure the pattern tissue for several additional >numbers before I sit down to alter it. Call me foolish, but I've always wondered why, instead of having "sizes" that there weren't cutting lines for measurements. You know, like "bust 32 cut here" "hip 35 cut here" waist 30 cut here"...... Maybe with a Size 10 bold line, and the others floating around it. That way you wouldn't have to guess the ease, or what the fit model really looked like. ;-D Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 18:41:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FMfDIO021986 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 18:41:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FMeO76021470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:40:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FMeNx5015546; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:40:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FMchx5014100 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:38:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.121.242.134] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABC49690154; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:35:48 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:41:28 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Ooh and the men's Regency stuff! You see the Georgian and >Victorian sometimes but rarely the Regency. I have some gowns >for myself, but have no idea how to do something for my >husband.... not that we have anywhere to wear it now that we >live in Atlanta... but still, I want it! > >Teena OOOOOO and RESTORATION stuff! The only Restoration pattern I know out there is Richard the Thread, and I didn't get great results with it..... Guess I'll have to draft that one myself too.... unless someone knows a pattern out there that can rescue me! Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 18:42:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FMgYIO021992 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 18:42:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FMfu76021603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:41:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FMfrx5017037; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:41:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FMcix5014114 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:38:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.121.242.134] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABC69690154; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:35:50 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:41:41 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] feedback on commercial pattern Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Greetings all... > >It's only recently that I've started to make historical clothing for >others. Until now I've only made historical clothing for myself. >And in making for myself I always drafted my own patterns. With >this new branch devleoping, I've tried a couple of patterns - and >tried to help one lady rescue her project that went badly awry. >Having dealt with different pattern companies sizing methods, >pattern variations and the like, I've come to be firmly in the >'draft my own' category. Over the past months I've discovered it >is definately worth my time to draft the pattern for each body... >rather than try to sort out someone elses. > >Just my preference. >Bridgette / Mari I've had exactly the same experience. I own every historic pattern there is, but end up drafting my own, for myself and for other people.... I know ONE person on this planet who is an exact size 10. Everyone else is weird and lumpy like me. ;-D NOBODY makes a pattern for 32-27-39 with a 14 inch back waist length ;-D And altering them doesn't really do the trick, or at least I'm not skilled enough to make the alterations work. I do better if I draw from scratch. Which brings me to my REAL question. A couple of years ago I was on this list, and someone mentioned that they were writing a "Geometry for Non-Pro Pattern Makers" book. I NEED this book! Please please, if you're out there, and you've published, let me send you money! ;-D Or if you're still in process, can I please be your proof reader??? I've gotten pretty good at freehanding a sleeve cap to fit an armhole, but wouldn't it be better if I could just do the math????? Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 18:45:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FMjpIO022004 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 18:45:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FMjC76021901 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:45:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FMjAx5019766; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:45:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FMcjx5014144 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:38:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.121.242.134] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABC79690154; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:35:51 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:41:50 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] fulling wool? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote: >I realize I'm rambling , but I've recently gotten interested in >things fibrous, as I'm learning to spin, and finding out all about the >different processes you put wool through to make it a woolen or a >worsted, not to mention preferred types of wool and all. Does anyone >happen to know if modern commercial worsteds react to washing and >fulling and dyeing and whatnot (procedures involving water) in the same >ways that historical worsteds would have? Oh yeah.... spinning and weaving definitely changes your point of view!!!! One of the sneaky things about wool in commercial clothes is that a lot of it is now "superwash". This means that the wool has been basically soaked in plastic, and the fibers are now coated, so their little hooky shafts won't felt any more. This is why some modern wools are "washable". It also changes their feel, so they're not as scratchy, and makes "woolen" wools not quite so "wooley". >--sue, who eventually wants to spin and weave her own yard goods for >historical costume.... Damn, you're ambitious..... it's taken me two years so far to spin yarn for a blanket I wanna make. Granted, it's gonna be at 30 epi, and I need almost 10,000 yards..... and I'm not there yet..... Rima *I'm BAAAAACK* after too long an absence.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 19:29:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FNTSIO022066 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:29:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FNSi76024834 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:28:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FNSgj3020307; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:28:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt7.ihug.co.nz (grunt7.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FNScj3020248 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:28:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p173-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.173] by grunt7.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A9v4G-0005MN-00; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:28:37 +1300 Message-ID: <007101c39374$10f5a7d0$adc0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: invisible zips Re: [h-cost] YET More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:28:39 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'd like to have that URL too. I've never found the right attachment to get > the da** invisible zipper foot to fit my machine so I've always put them in > by hand. It never stopped me, but it would certainly be faster to insert > zippers by machine. I just use a piping foot and hold the teeth down manualy. It's actually really easy, unfortunately I'd need someone else to take photos while I sew for me to do a step by step on the net;) It does also mean the bulk of the fabric goes under the arm of the sewing machine, but even with 40cm zips (erm... 16" zip I believe) this is fine. I've just done two on two very bulky dresses with no trouble regarding the fabric getting annoying. I've done a grand total or four like this in the last year, not a lot to be sure, but with the big gaps between doing them I didn't have much practice and still remembered how to do it. I have no idea how close the attachments get the seam to he teeth, but I can get it so the zip really is invisible, unless you pull very hard and then you only see the teeth not the fabric of the zip. Speaking of which, I can only buy decent invisible zips from one place here now. Spotlight and the big fabric comany in New Market (Auckland, New Zealand) sell those horrible open nylon things that look like they'd rip before the teeth give out. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 19:31:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FNV7IO022085 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:31:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FNUQ76025036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:30:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FNUOj3021613; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:30:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FNTpj3020981 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.157]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id h9FNunV03364 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:56:50 +1000 Message-ID: <005501c39375$0cae1da0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F8CA3FD.85D61490@in-tch.com> <3F8C4BCC.21067.F9CCDD2@localhost> <3F8D48F6.94547331@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum photography &c was V&A exhibition Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:35:40 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue, How odd. I asked at Bath, and they said it was OK without flash. No photos were allowed of the assembly rooms, though (how fantastic are they?). I took a few photos, only of the early pieces (16&17th c). Some are dark, but they're digital, so I'll see how they lighten with Paintshop. I was also knockd out by the Cheapside hoard. I was particularly impressed with the cuts on some of the stones - I'm sure that people have told me in the past that some of those cuts weren't around till the 19th century... They have a book on it, but on a quick flick through the approach seemed to be more in the jewelry collection mode rather than from a historical viewpoint. I may still get a copy - probably should have but I was grumpy from the photo-ban and lack of documentation in the museum and wasn't going to part with that much $AUS for a small book. Maybe I'd been all booked out that day - we spent a couple of hours in the Guildhall Library - they have an amazing collection of books on London - including histories of the Guilds, manuscripts, documents - they've just done a move and a lot of their documents are still in boxes, but it should be sorted in a year. Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- > The Costume Museum in Bath had a similar policy, but their explanation > was "security reasons." (Someone using some sort of camera to take note > of where the cameras were and such, I guess.) > My digital camera even has a museum setting (non-flash), but it was > still no-go at either place... > I wasn't asking to take a picture of one particular item, I must admit > (because when I asked, I didn't know what I'd be seeing). In > retrospect, I believe the stuff I was particularly interested were part > of their permanent collections. My friend Jane went particularly nuts > over the Cheapside Horde.... > --sue > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 19:50:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FNorIO022121 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:50:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FNnt76026501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:49:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FNnqj3003322; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:49:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9FNnnj3003245 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:49:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCq2RdgVYvyC3H4+qHweQRLiS2w4ax+nuWg==">; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:48:57 PDT Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JCKRG8UB; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:48:57 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 18:45:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list Message-ID: <20031015.184511.-476307.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-14,18-20 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:41:28 -0700 Rima writes: > > OOOOOO and RESTORATION stuff! The only Restoration pattern I know > > out there is Richard the Thread, and I didn't get great results with > > it..... > > Guess I'll have to draft that one myself too.... unless someone > knows > a pattern out there that can rescue me! > > Rima Ironically, for Restoration there's actually a commercial pattern that looks pretty good but it's for men. It's Butterick #6844. It's marketed as a clerical cassock, but the lines are perfect for men's restoration if you shorten the hem a bit. Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 21:40:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G1esIO022409 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:40:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G1dt76003119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:39:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G1dq4Y029707; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:39:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G1do4Y029677 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:39:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMT00FZ2TYD6Q@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 18:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:58:02 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses, was V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20031015001416.05628b10@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031015175730.00b18b88@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031014184350.02f8c708@64.87.54.245> <3F8CA3FD.85D61490@in-tch.com> <00ae01c391a2$45dbd470$75f5da0c@DT2JBTC21> <00f001c39291$3e4f3f40$0200a8c0@comcast.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:16 AM 10/15/2003 -0700, you wrote: >When I was pregnant with my 19-year-old, I did a maternity gown like one >in the Thomas More family drawing. I did a gable headdress for it, and >liked how it looked, but don't have a digital camera with which to take >pictures of it. Do you have a specific question? Just wanted to know how to make one. I found the info online. Thanks for the offer! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 21:42:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G1gmIO022413 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:42:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G1g076003303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:42:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G1fu4Y001316; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:41:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G1do4a029677 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:39:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMT00FZ2TYD6Q@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 18:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 18:10:18 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] YET More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031015180846.00b083e8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <3F8D2370.17489.12E724BD@localhost> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:24 AM 10/15/2003 -0700, you wrote: >In Berkeley CA, one of the best places to learn >is Stone Mountain and Daughter, and I'm sure there's a place like this in >most cities. I so wish. The stores around here give classes on quilting, home dec, and crafts. The one time I saw a class listing for basic sewing, it was during the morning hours, I guess for people who have nothing to do during the day. Definitely not for people who work, or people who take care of kids during the day. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 21:45:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G1jQIO022418 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:45:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G1hu76003488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:43:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G1ht4Y002672; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:43:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G1do4c029677 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:39:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMT00FZ2TYD6Q@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 18:39:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 18:21:41 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses In-reply-to: <2XKLjDCbcSj$Iwj2@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031015181702.02ff7468@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <3F8C4A38.13641.F96A180@localhost> <3F8CA3FD.85D61490@in-tch.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20031014184350.02f8c708@64.87.54.245> <3F8C4A38.13641.F96A180@localhost> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:53 AM 10/15/2003 +0100, you wrote: >The website is still up, at >http://www.montgomerie.demon.co.uk/enghood/enghood1.htm >I wouldn't claim this is the way real gable hoods were made, but it comes >out with the right look. > >I'm sorry, I have lost the electronic pictures of the MOL wires. > >Jean Hi Jean, Yours is the first one I found last night, and I got all the pages and printed them out. I hope to start working on the hood in a few weeks, after I finish a glove making class. I am glad you based yours on Jane Seymour's portrait, because that is exactly the portrait I based my dress on. We are currently doing Henry VIII about Anne of Cleaves time, 1543-5 or so? Jane is dead, so I kinda feel odd wearing her style of dress done in blues, but at least it is the right time period. I do like how you have very clear photos of the process, including the measurements for the linen and wires. I read through them quickly last night, and the directions seemed rather clear. When I get started on it, I may email you if I have any questions, if that's ok. Thanks!! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 21:51:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G1pDIO022428 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:51:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G1oT76004103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:50:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G1nl4Y006298; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:49:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G1do4e029677 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:39:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMT00FZ2TYD6Q@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 18:39:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 18:39:18 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses, was V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition In-reply-to: <3F8D4511.7060304@uvm.edu> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031015183151.02ff56a8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031014184350.02f8c708@64.87.54.245> <00ae01c391a2$45dbd470$75f5da0c@DT2JBTC21> <00f001c39291$3e4f3f40$0200a8c0@comcast.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20031014184350.02f8c708@64.87.54.245> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:01 AM 10/15/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I didn't take a picture of the gable wires at MOL but did a sketch which >you can find here: >http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/frame1.gif and >http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/frame2.gif > >The wire looked very much like that used for wire hangers, perhaps a >bit lighter--think cheap wire hangers from the dry cleaner. > >You'll also find there (http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/gable.html) a >collection of gable headdress images, and the beginnings of some >instructions. Based on the wires, I came up with a rather different method >of construction that Jean Waddie's. If you are careful about the >proportions/measurements around your face you will get a very good fitting >headdress, though I'm rethinking the design now a bit. Maybe some day I'll >finish that page... > >- Hope Hi Hope, I found this site last night, when I went looking for French Hoods, for some reason I can't recall. I also printed out the instructions, to do a compare and contrast with Jean's instructions. I didn't have time by then to read it all, but I liked the layout with it all on one page for printing. I also liked your sketches of the wires, it was very helpful to see the possible originals. I do hope you will finish the page. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 22:37:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G2bsIO022523 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:37:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G2bB76006791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:37:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G2bAEn001272; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:37:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20203.mail.yahoo.com (web20203.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.58]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9G2b7En001249 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:37:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031016023707.68266.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.179] by web20203.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:37:07 EST Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:37:07 +1000 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200310152245.h9FMhQx8018396@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Hose/Stockings X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all, I've recently started receiving digests again after a long time away from the list, so in asking the following question please forgive me if it takes me a while to reply to any help I am, undoubtedly, going to receive! :) I'm wondering if anyone can tell me when sheer or sheer-ish silk hose/stockings first appeared? Also, I have so far discovered that crape/crepe weave in silk may have been referred to as curled cypress/cipers/sypers in the sixteenth century. Can anyone supply anything more substantial than that? I have some silk crepe I would love to use for something documentable to the 1500s preferably. :) Bella The Realm of Venus http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net http://search.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Search - Looking for more? Try the new Yahoo! Search _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 22:56:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G2umIO022555 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:56:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G2tv76007847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:55:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G2tr9P009923; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:55:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G2tn9P009841 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:55:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.249.181.84] (pool181-84.patriot.net [209.249.181.84]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9G2tkGd008651 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:55:48 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20031016023707.68266.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031016023707.68266.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:56:16 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hose/Stockings Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bella wrote, >I'm wondering if anyone can tell me when sheer or sheer-ish silk >hose/stockings first appeared? I research stockings, but primarily 18th century and not much beyond the early 19th. I see sheers in collections starting in the 1920s. I don't know if this is when they first appeared, though. In the early 19thC, there was a sort of contest between how fine cotton could be spun and how fine a knit could be made. I have a pair of cotton hose that are not completely opaque, and they're about 1840. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 23:08:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G38QIO022582 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:08:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G37f76008497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:07:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G37d9P015323; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:07:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G37a9P015293 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:07:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.122] (pm7-122.eos.net [205.133.149.122]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G37YWb010309 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:07:34 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:00:07 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200310141453.h9EErhB9024366@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: pattern wish list X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I concur with Christine in Dayton! I would love to see some little girl's stuff -- Regency, 1860s, 1840s, Kate Greenaway-style, 1950s -- ANYTHING! When my daughter was younger I wanted to make her historical-style Easter dresses to use as dress-up clothes later on, but I couldn't find anything in the pattern books (except the odd Little Bo Peep costume) and I didn't really want to go the expensive completely historically accurate look. I altered a pattern for a "historically inspired" dress for her First Communion, and that was about all I was good for. Also, girl's costume patterns available in 18-inch doll clothes versions, for matching outfits. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 23:10:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G3AAIO022589 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:10:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G39O76008552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:09:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G39O9P016132; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:09:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G39M9P016113 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:09:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.179]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:07:10 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:09:26 -0400 Message-ID: <000e01c39392$e93c5760$b36453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rima wrote: <> All depends on how soon you need the pattern and how long you're willing to wait. My company is definitely planning on doing patterns for Restoration era historical clothing. But I have to slog through the ECW and Irish patterns first. =) Karen wrote: <> This is a nice pattern, but I don't see how it looks like a Restoration era garment, Karen. These are Restoration era men's outfits (short doublets and petticote breeches): French - http://costumes.org/history/17thcent/mensfashionplates/manpetticoat1665. gif English - http://costumes.org/history/17thcent/mensfashionplates/habitofaman.jpg Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 23:14:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G3E7IO022595 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:14:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G3DS76008735 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:13:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G3DR9P017869; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:13:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.139]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9G3DN9P017809 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:13:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-116-252-36.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.116.252.36 with login) by smtp1.bt.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2003 03:13:16 -0000 Message-ID: <017101c39393$73c51fc0$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <208BA07A.6756CD13.02708BA2@aol.com> <3F8D91C9.8090808@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] YET More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:13:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just a random observation inspired by Fran's comments on the development of the pattern industry... I was recently reading an article on the clothing of women's college students in the late nineteenth century, and the article pointed out that most students had their clothing cut (which would presumably include drafting/altering the pattern) by a professional seamstress. Then the students would take those cut pieces and sew them together themselves. Which means that even back in the era when women WERE taught to sew, one-on-one, fit was still considered the most difficult part of the equation. - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 23:14:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G3EdIO022598 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:14:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G3Dr76008758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:13:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G3Dq9P018077; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:13:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav5.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G3Do9P017980 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:13:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:13:44 -0700 Received: from 66.131.9.61 by bay9-dav5.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 03:13:44 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.131.9.61] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Learning to sew was: Re: [h-cost] YET More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:15:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Oct 2003 03:13:44.0693 (UTC) FILETIME=[81FEA250:01C39393] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > We too had home ec in junior high school (40+ years ago before home ec was > politically incorrect) We had home ec. in high school, that was in the late 1990's. We did a pair of boxer shorts. We learned how to sew a straight seam, and that's about it. I didn't learn anything there - my mother had already taught me that when I was helping her sew my Halloween costumes. > I agree with this also. And I find that my daughters don't want to learn > from me, especially the 17 year old. Moms are usually idiots when it comes > to teaching. I don't know what your relationship with your daughters is, but I learned to sew with my mom. I learned a lot of things by osmosis, and then she had me sew straight seams. And then for a couple of months I called for help when I needed it. I still go to her when I have questions about a pattern. I found that practice is the best way to learn - and asking questions when I'm unsure of something. But we parted company a couple of years ago when I decided that I didn't need a pattern to make a T-tunic :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 23:26:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G3QmIO022617 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:26:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G3Q276009463 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G3Q19P024383; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G3Px9P024366 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.179]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:23:47 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] YET More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:26:04 -0400 Message-ID: <001001c39395$3b9d7190$b36453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <017101c39393$73c51fc0$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kendra wrote: <> Not surprising, really. It IS the hardest bit, isn't it? I love to fit garments on people, but I don't deny that it's the hardest part of construction. We, as a society, used to value the work of professional tailors. I remember my Mum and Dad taking their new clothing to be altered and we were not wealthy people by any stretch. But now, tailoring as a common profession is dying out, and I for one will be sorry to see the little Italian man down the block's ("Tony the Tailor") shoes go unfilled... Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 23:30:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G3UrIO022625 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:30:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G3UF76009658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:30:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G3UE9P026338; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:30:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G3UC9P026324 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:30:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.179]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:27:59 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: Learning to sew was: Re: [h-cost] YET More on the Whole Big 3 PatternThing Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:30:17 -0400 Message-ID: <001201c39395$d2440870$b36453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know what your relationship with your daughters is, but I learned to sew with my mom. I learned a lot of things by osmosis, and then she had me sew straight seams. And then for a couple of months I called for help when I needed it. I still go to her when I have questions about a pattern. I found that practice is the best way to learn - and asking questions when I'm unsure of something. But we parted company a couple of years ago when I decided that I didn't need a pattern to make a T-tunic :-) >>>> Hee hee! My Mum was a garment factory worker all her life and I honestly don't remember her teaching me how to sew -- I was that small when it started. And we "parted company" too, Audrey. Mum doesn't understand why you can't use a dart or the kind of corset boning you can sew over. =) Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 23:36:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G3aAIO022637 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:36:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G3ZR76009948 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:35:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G3ZQ9P028662; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:35:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9G3ZN9P028596 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:35:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCq2RdgVYvyC35Yh6PasU9TqQaBqOuThuvQ==">; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:35:17 PDT Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JCK6FPF6; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:35:17 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:31:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list Message-ID: <20031015.223128.-476307.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-8,10-12,14-18,25-26 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:09:26 -0400 "Kass McGann" > > Karen wrote: > < that looks pretty good but it's for men. It's Butterick #6844. It's > marketed as a clerical cassock, but the lines are perfect for men's > restoration if you shorten the hem a bit.>> > > This is a nice pattern, but I don't see how it looks like a > Restoration era garment, Karen. These are Restoration era men's outfits >(short doublets and petticote breeches): > French - > http://costumes.org/history/17thcent/mensfashionplates/manpetticoat1665. > gif > English - > http://costumes.org/history/17thcent/mensfashionplates/habitofaman.jpg I suppose it depends on what one considers the Restoration. Obviously it's after Charles II comes to the throne, but he sat on the throne during a profound shift in clothing styles. The 1660's still had the very silly petticoat breeches and short doublet, but by the 1670's there was a longer fashion which was attributed to the Turks and known as a 'justacorp' which is almost identical to the cassock, especially if you look at the lines of the back seams. Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 15 23:49:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G3nlIO022737 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:49:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G3mo76010610 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:48:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G3mn9P004898; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:48:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G3mj9P004866 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:48:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.179]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:46:33 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:48:50 -0400 Message-ID: <001301c39398$69d2f190$b36453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20031015.223128.-476307.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I suppose it depends on what one considers the Restoration. Obviously it's after Charles II comes to the throne, but he sat on the throne during a profound shift in clothing styles. The 1660's still had the very silly petticoat breeches and short doublet, but by the 1670's there was a longer fashion which was attributed to the Turks and known as a 'justacorp' which is almost identical to the cassock, especially if you look at the lines of the back seams. >>>> Okay, I see what you mean now, Karen. The Restoration is typically taken to mean when Charles II was restored to the throne, and that's the 1660s. But I see what you're going for. Being that I couldn't see the lines of anything in that little pictures, I couldn't tell you if you were right or wrong. But I assume you have the pattern and can see them. Me, I would have bought a long waistcoat pattern from J.P. Ryan or the like. An early to mid-18th century waistcoat has much the same lines as a justacorp. And my money goes to someone who caters to reenactors. =) Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 00:10:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G4ASIO022781 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:10:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G49676011568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:09:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G495lX013957; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:09:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G492lX013893 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PallasAMK@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1c2.104f262a (4584) for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:08:49 -0400 (EDT) From: PallasAMK@aol.com Message-ID: <1c2.104f262a.2cbf73d0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:08:48 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: YET etc., but this is it for me X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For Lynne and Kat First: Here's a link on inserting invisible zippers using a regular zipper foot. It's not the one I had bookmarked, but like many things in the ether the original has gone away. This one looks pretty close, though: http://www.fabric-mill.com/invisibleZipper.htm Second, I do want to assure both of you that, in fact I DIDN'T learn more than I thought I did from my home ec sewing teacher. What I learned was how to insert a zipper--and although I do not underestimate the importance of that, that was exactly what I got. I already knew how to sew straight seams and do casings, which was the sum total of what she taught. Granted, we were obnoxious in a way that only adolescents can be, but nonetheless, that was what she knew; that was what she taught. No grain lines, no bias. Nada. If your own experiences involved better teachers, I am envious, but no misty-eyed mornings with fond remembrances of Mrs. Sprecher and how she put me on the road to sewing bliss for me. I came by the love of this hobby on my own, and I am mostly self taught. As an aside to Fran, who wrote a whole lot of stuff--there are loads of differences between vintage patterns and modern, but I suppose I should have said that in my opinion, and based on my own collection of vintage patterns and my use of them, I don't find any significant difference in the approach and/or quality of the instructions for construction. They seem to be aimed at approximately the same level of ability, and clarity as today--but today's patterns have more illustrations, which many will find useful. I gather from your various posts that you work in this topic, but based on my personal experience, and for my needs and skill set, I see no appreciable difference. But truly, the real point of my posts was simply to say that given all the variables in people's sizes, builds, etc., I cannot imagine how people would expect a ready-made pattern to fit right out of the envelope. Athene _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 00:16:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G4GJIO022793 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:16:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G4Fe76011835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:15:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G4FdlX016807; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:15:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80410.mail.yahoo.com (web80410.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9G4FblX016750 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:15:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031016041532.88717.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.114.228.38] by web80410.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:15:32 PDT Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:15:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Jennifer Fleury To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] silk cleaning X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can anyone help? One of my guild members got grease (derived from a platter of roast pork) on her silk taffeta dress. It was not preshrunk, and the dry cleaners told her they could not get the stain out. Any ideas? This is a brand new dress, she's heartbroken! Thank you for any input Jennifer Fleury Guild Master 2003-2004 The Guild of St. Augustine www.guildofstaugustine.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 00:37:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G4bGIO022929 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:37:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G4aa76012907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:36:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G4aWlX026097; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:36:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G4aTlY026046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:36:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-92.sonic.net [209.148.112.92]) (authenticated bits=0)h9G4aNs0013404 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:36:23 -0700 Message-ID: <3F8E20E6.8010206@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:39:02 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] YET More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing References: <208BA07A.6756CD13.02708BA2@aol.com> <3F8D91C9.8090808@lavoltapress.com> <017101c39393$73c51fc0$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> In-Reply-To: <017101c39393$73c51fc0$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, the term "garment cutting" includes pattern design. It was not just pinning a pattern onto the fabric and cutting around the outline. In the 19th century women not infrequently worked together with their dressmakers, with the dressmaker doing the most skilled work. Having the dressmaker produce a fitted pattern, then taking the project from there, was one way to do this. Another, popular in the eras with simple skirts, was to have the dressmaker make the bodice and the home seamstress would make the skirt.. Another custom was to have a lower-end dressmaker stay at the house for about a week, and the woman would sew together with her. Fran Kendra Van Cleave wrote: >Just a random observation inspired by Fran's comments on the development of >the pattern industry... I was recently reading an article on the clothing of >women's college students in the late nineteenth century, and the article >pointed out that most students had their clothing cut (which would >presumably include drafting/altering the pattern) by a professional >seamstress. Then the students would take those cut pieces and sew them >together themselves. Which means that even back in the era when women WERE >taught to sew, one-on-one, fit was still considered the most difficult part >of the equation. > >- > ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 00:40:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G4e1IO022939 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:40:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G4dP76013027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:39:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G4dPlX027253; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:39:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.19.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G4dNlY027207 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:39:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-92.sonic.net [209.148.112.92]) (authenticated bits=0)h9G4dGSe007754 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:39:17 -0700 Message-ID: <3F8E2194.7060808@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:41:56 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: YET etc., but this is it for me References: <1c2.104f262a.2cbf73d0@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1c2.104f262a.2cbf73d0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I suspect because ready-to-wear has conditioned them to think they can walk into a store and buy some standard size that fits. People don't expect a really good fit any more. Fran >But truly, the real point of my posts was simply to say that given all the >variables in people's sizes, builds, etc., I cannot imagine how people would >expect a ready-made pattern to fit right out of the envelope. > >Athene >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > -- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 00:40:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G4eeIO022945 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:40:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G4e176013066 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G4e0lX027535; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:40:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G4dolX027429 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:39:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-24-26-185-51.mn.rr.com [24.26.185.51])h9G4dhqJ010259 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:39:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20031015234340.01f37620@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:44:59 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] light problems: V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition In-Reply-To: <3F8D0FCF.6314.129A764E@localhost> References: <3F8D32D1.70206@thibault.org> <200310150056.32422.cathy@thyrsus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:13 AM 10/15/2003 -0700, you wrote: > > > > And it may be that the photocopy machine uses somewhat less light than > > a flash; I don't know. > >A photocopy machine actually uses a lot more light than a flash, >unfortunately. Very hard on books! > >Kat > What is very bizarre to me is the PRO (Public Records Office) will photocopy documents for you?! I found that to be mighty strange that they would be willing to expose 500 year old pieces of paper to that kind of light... Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 00:40:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G4egIO022948 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:40:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G4do76013046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:39:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G4dnlX027427; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:39:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G4dmlX027411 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:39:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-24-26-185-51.mn.rr.com [24.26.185.51])h9G4dhqH010259 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:39:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20031015233959.01f1e8d0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:43:09 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum photo policy, was: Re: V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition In-Reply-To: <3F8D15E6.21987.12B241DC@localhost> References: <200310142240.09862.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3F8C4BCC.21067.F9CCDD2@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:39 AM 10/15/2003 -0700, you wrote: >It is not your picture taking that is the problem with the light but >having the light on in the gallery low enough not to damage the >textiles which is not enough light to shoot most pictures. (I usually >use the highest ASA slide film available and shoot it so that it gets >pushed one more stop. Even then there's often not enough light.) >Sadly, because of misuse of information by some unscrupulous person >(at least that's *my* interpretation on what happened), they no >longer allow photography in many museums (including the MOL, who >recently had a major problem which resulted in the policy change) >under any circumstance. (Although I suspect/hope that doesn't include >people who have made special arrangements.) This is because they need >to protect their museum in terms of money. (The artifacts themselves >actually do better than many people think with flash according to the >museum people I spoke with at both V&A and MOL. It's unauthorized use >that is making the policy change.) > >Kat > Greetings, You can still do photography in the MOL if you make arrangements ahead of time and sign a waiver. Then the guards in the area need to notified that you have a right to be there photographing things and you can go ahead. It was kind of amusing, when I was last there taking photos in July the guard in the clothing area was fascinated with why I wanted the pictures and wanted to hear all about my research. Then she went and got another guard so they could hear all about it too... Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 00:53:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G4rKIO023022 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:53:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G4qb76013580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:52:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G4qZlX003392; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:52:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20205.mail.yahoo.com (web20205.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9G4qVlX003361 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:52:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031016045231.99189.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.179] by web20205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:52:31 EST Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:52:31 +1000 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hose/Stockings To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200310160331.h9G3UN9S026397@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Message: 10 > Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:56:16 -0400 > From: Carol Kocian > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hose/Stockings > To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > > Bella wrote, > >I'm wondering if anyone can tell me when sheer or sheer-ish silk > >hose/stockings first appeared? > > I research stockings, but primarily 18th century and not much > beyond the early 19th. I see sheers in collections starting in the > 1920s. I don't know if this is when they first appeared, though. > > In the early 19thC, there was a sort of contest between how fine > cotton could be spun and how fine a knit could be made. I have a > pair of cotton hose that are not completely opaque, and they're about > 1840. Thanks Carol - this re-affirms my vague impression that semi-sheers were an 18th century thing. I may not be able to make semi-sheer hose for the sixteenth century, but there are other things I can make! :) Bella The Realm of Venus http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 00:59:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G4xsIO023071 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:59:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G4x776013944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:59:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G4x5M4006160; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:59:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G4x1M5006131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:59:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9G4x15H002453 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:59:01 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9G4x1r9002451 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:59:01 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:59:00 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200310150056.32422.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310160059.00839.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 15 October 2003 08:54 am, Carol Kocian wrote: > Cathy wrote, > > >This absolutely baffles me. Why no flash, if you're willing to put the > > item on a photocopier and expose it to equally bright light for even > > longer? > > I was baffled, myself, but was not going to argue! Things were > different in another department of the same museum, so it was not a > museum-wide policy. Interesting. > > Once they had the xerox, though, they could make a second > generation copy and not put the stocking on the copier again. Maybe > that was part of the reasoning. Perhaps. After reading some of the posts on this subject by list members with experience, I suspect that it's closer to the truth that the name of the game is protecting the specimens from frequent exposure to light by flash-wielding tourists. In other words, you were perceived as a serious scholar, so the curator was willing to do you a special favor. -- Cathy Raymond "Adult life seems to be a cross between a zen koan and a cattle stampede." --Ozy and Millie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 01:09:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G595IO023112 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:09:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G58P76014324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:08:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G58NM4010411; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:08:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G58KM5010396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:08:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9G58L5H002481 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:08:21 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9G58LCt002479 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:08:21 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] light problems: V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:08:20 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200310150056.32422.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3F8D32D1.70206@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <3F8D32D1.70206@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310160108.20894.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 15 October 2003 07:43 am, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > > This absolutely baffles me. Why no flash, if you're willing to put the > > item on a photocopier and expose it to equally bright light for even > > longer? > > It's probably an education thing. Most of us have heard about the light > from a flash being X times a day's exposure of sunlight, because > tourists carry flash cameras and so it can be a problem. It's a rare > tourist that will carry a photocopy machine. That's a good point; thanks for writing. -- Cathy Raymond "Adult life seems to be a cross between a zen koan and a cattle stampede." --Ozy and Millie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 01:11:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G5BBIO023146 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:11:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G59n76014377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:09:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G59mM4010949; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:09:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G59kM4010924 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:09:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.249.181.84] (pool181-84.patriot.net [209.249.181.84]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9G59hGd006646 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:09:45 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20031016045231.99189.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031016045231.99189.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:10:14 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hose/Stockings Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Thanks Carol - this re-affirms my vague impression that semi-sheers >were an 18th century thing. No, it was 19th century - 1840 for the fine spun cotton yarn and the very fine knits. Openwork knits appeared in the late 18thC - 1790s. It's different than semi-sheer, though. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 01:12:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G5CaIO023186 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:12:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G5BP76014440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:11:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G5BOM4011801; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:11:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G5BLM5011772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:11:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9G5BL5H002508 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:11:21 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9G5BLbg002506 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:11:21 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:11:21 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <013501c392ec$cbbd8c00$93cfadcb@michaela> In-Reply-To: <013501c392ec$cbbd8c00$93cfadcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310160111.21239.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 15 October 2003 03:20 am, michaela wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robin Netherton" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 5:12 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition > > > On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > > The MOL policy you've just described, though, is what I typically > > > expect of museums in general. The V&A's policy is more interesting to > > > me because it diverges from what I thought was the norm. > > > > I have taken hundreds, maybe thousands of pictures in multiple museums in > > London, Paris, Brussels, Bruges, Tournai, Ghent, Antwerp, and Madrid, not > > to mention Chicago, Los Angeles, Baltimore, and Washington (just to name > > the places that spring to mind first). The only place I can remember > > where photography was not allowed was in a small private collection in > > Madrid (Galerie Lazaro, IIRC). > > This has also been my experience. Though for fewer museums;) I know I was > blown away when I was able to take photos at the Louvre in 1997. I got my > camera into the v&a as well as a few more on the continent. > Very interesting. Thanks for the information, both of you. -- Cathy Raymond "Adult life seems to be a cross between a zen koan and a cattle stampede." --Ozy and Millie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 01:28:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G5SBIO023234 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:28:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G5RU76015145 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:27:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G5RTM4019102; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:27:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G5RRM4019085 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:27:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip216.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.216]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3940A6A943 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:27:25 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:26:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hose/Stockings Message-ID: <3F8DC9AF.12003.15708C6B@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20031016023707.68266.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200310152245.h9FMhQx8018396@net.indra.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'm wondering if anyone can tell me when sheer or sheer-ish silk > hose/stockings first appeared? Also, I have so far discovered that > crape/crepe weave in silk may have been referred to as curled > cypress/cipers/sypers in the sixteenth century. Can anyone supply > anything more substantial than that? I have some silk crepe I would > love to use for something documentable to the 1500s preferably. :) Depending on who you talk to, it started in Elizabeth's reign in about 1570. They were finely knit silk. However, how shear they were is debatable if you have only samples such as the Eleanor of Toledo ones (which were red knit but seemed more like a silk pair of knee high weight.) If you look at some of the later Elizabethan men, they appear to be wearing a tight fitting hose which seems to be a finely knitted silk, but again, it's debatable on how sheer you would consider them. As to Cypress/etc, that's a woven fabric which was much used especially when something rather crisp was needed (such as the front edge of the French Hood which could be either cypress or a fine cloth of gold. It is seen in gold on the front of most French Hoods and you can see what is probably an example since it is similar to that edging but in white on the front edge of the cap worn by Kateryne Parr in the red dress with the full gathered sleeves.) >From what I can find, when they wore cloth stockings they would more likely be of plain linen rather than of cypress. If you have different information, please let me know so that I can update my women's renaissance underwear class. (Thanks in advance.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 01:28:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G5SLIO023237 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:28:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G5Rj76015164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:27:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G5RjM4019234; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:27:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G5RVM4019115 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:27:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip216.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.216]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E76D86A943 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:27:29 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:26:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3F8DC9AF.22448.15708A87@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <007101c39374$10f5a7d0$adc0adcb@michaela> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Subject: [h-cost] Re: invisible zips Re: YET More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I just use a piping foot and hold the teeth down manualy. It's > actually really easy, unfortunately I'd need someone else to take > photos while I sew for me to do a step by step on the net;) A piping foot would be very similar to the foot which you can get with the invisible zipper. Unfortunately, I haven't found one for my machine that I could afford. Fortunately, I rarely have to use a zipper. The last one I put in was in a fabric jewelry rollup bag. ;) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 03:08:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G789IO018523 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 03:08:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G74T76018608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:04:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G74Thl028496; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:04:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20206.mail.yahoo.com (web20206.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9G74Qhl028483 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:04:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031016070426.63472.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.179] by web20206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:04:26 EST Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:04:26 +1000 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Answering two messages in one..... > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:10:14 -0400 > From: Carol Kocian > >Thanks Carol - this re-affirms my vague impression that semi-sheers > >were an 18th century thing. > > No, it was 19th century - 1840 for the fine spun cotton yarn and > the very fine knits. Oops - boo-boo. Thinking too fast and typing too slow. :) > Message: 14 > Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:26:55 -0700 > From: kat@grendal.rain.com > Depending on who you talk to, it started in Elizabeth's reign in > about 1570. They were finely knit silk. However, how shear they were > is debatable if you have only samples such as the Eleanor of Toledo > ones (which were red knit but seemed more like a silk pair of knee > high weight.) If you look at some of the later Elizabethan men, they > appear to be wearing a tight fitting hose which seems to be a finely > knitted silk, but again, it's debatable on how sheer you would > consider them. Yep, I know about the knit ones. Luckily I didn't get my hopes up about semi-sheer hose. :) > As to Cypress/etc, that's a woven fabric which was much used > especially when something rather crisp was needed (such as the front > edge of the French Hood which could be either cypress or a fine cloth > of gold. This is confusing to me, because curled cypress has been equated with crepe, and crepe is definitely not crisp. If you could give me a direct quote about curled cypress it would be much appreciated. > >From what I can find, when they wore cloth stockings they would more > likely be of plain linen rather than of cypress. If you have > different information, please let me know so that I can update my > women's renaissance underwear class. (Thanks in advance.) Nope, sorry, I wish I had different information so I could help you with that. I asked because I wanted to know what there is to learn about curled cypress/crepe. Thanks! :) Bella http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 03:08:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G78WIO018734 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 03:08:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G72s76018538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:02:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G72ihl027856; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:02:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20202.mail.yahoo.com (web20202.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9G72ghl027846 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:02:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031016070242.38266.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.179] by web20202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:02:42 EST Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:02:42 +1000 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hose/Stockings To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200310160529.h9G5RsM7019304@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Answering two messages in one..... > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:10:14 -0400 > From: Carol Kocian > >Thanks Carol - this re-affirms my vague impression that semi-sheers > >were an 18th century thing. > > No, it was 19th century - 1840 for the fine spun cotton yarn and > the very fine knits. Oops - boo-boo. Thinking too fast and typing too slow. :) > Message: 14 > Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:26:55 -0700 > From: kat@grendal.rain.com > Depending on who you talk to, it started in Elizabeth's reign in > about 1570. They were finely knit silk. However, how shear they were > is debatable if you have only samples such as the Eleanor of Toledo > ones (which were red knit but seemed more like a silk pair of knee > high weight.) If you look at some of the later Elizabethan men, they > appear to be wearing a tight fitting hose which seems to be a finely > knitted silk, but again, it's debatable on how sheer you would > consider them. Yep, I know about the knit ones. Luckily I didn't get my hopes up about semi-sheer hose. :) > As to Cypress/etc, that's a woven fabric which was much used > especially when something rather crisp was needed (such as the front > edge of the French Hood which could be either cypress or a fine cloth > of gold. This is confusing to me, because curled cypress has been equated with crepe, and crepe is definitely not crisp. If you could give me a direct quote about curled cypress it would be much appreciated. > >From what I can find, when they wore cloth stockings they would more > likely be of plain linen rather than of cypress. If you have > different information, please let me know so that I can update my > women's renaissance underwear class. (Thanks in advance.) Nope, sorry, I wish I had different information so I could help you with that. I asked because I wanted to know what there is to learn about curled cypress/crepe. Thanks! :) Bella http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 03:31:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G7UxIO023906 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 03:30:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G7U776019532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:30:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G7U6hl009128; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:30:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G7U4hl009114 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:30:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMU006G4A63K7@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:30:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:30:59 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk cleaning In-reply-to: <20031016041532.88717.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031016002622.02fbd868@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:15 PM 10/15/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Can anyone help? One of my guild members got grease (derived from a >platter of roast pork) on her silk taffeta dress. It was not preshrunk, >and the dry cleaners told her they could not get the stain out. Any >ideas? This is a brand new dress, she's heartbroken! Thank you for any input > > >Jennifer Fleury Hi Jennifer, I am not much on grease stains on silk, but I was wondering if she had remnants of that silk. If she does, maybe she can reproduce the grease stain on the remnants, then test various methods of grease removal on that first, to see if it shrinks or does any damage to the silk. My own experience of grease is sometimes it can be removed via Zout, or Kids 'N' Pets, both of which I buy at Wal-Mart. Good luck! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 03:36:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G7awIO025274 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 03:36:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G7aL76019752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:36:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G7aKhl011359; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:36:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (sea1-f113.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.113]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G7aGhl011298 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:36:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:36:10 -0700 Received: from 146.126.51.51 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:36:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [146.126.51.51] X-Originating-Email: [dminmin@hotmail.com] From: "deborah minyard" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:36:10 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Oct 2003 07:36:10.0947 (UTC) FILETIME=[2B7E5130:01C393B8] Subject: [h-cost] stockings X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:52:31 +1000 (EST) >From: Bella >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hose/Stockings > > Bella wrote, > > >I'm wondering if anyone can tell me when sheer or sheer-ish silk > > >hose/stockings first appeared? > > > > I research stockings, but primarily 18th century and not much > > beyond the early 19th. I see sheers in collections starting in the > > 1920s. I don't know if this is when they first appeared, though. > > As an aside my mom was a mardigras maid in a small town around 1939 the maids were representatives of local companies who contributed to their costumes. Her sponsoring company was a hose company thier contribution was a new type of hose. I'll have to ask what they were but something "amazing" then. Maddalena _________________________________________________________________ Send instant messages to anyone on your contact list with MSN Messenger 6.0. Try it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 03:49:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G7nVIO030211 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 03:49:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G7mW76020128 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:48:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G7mUhl015907; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:48:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G7mOhl015888 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:48:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-38-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.38.40]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9G7mMaU028537 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:48:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031016002810.0560f230@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:48:10 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses, was V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition In-Reply-To: <2XKLjDCbcSj$Iwj2@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> References: <3F8C4A38.13641.F96A180@localhost> <3F8CA3FD.85D61490@in-tch.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20031014184350.02f8c708@64.87.54.245> <3F8C4A38.13641.F96A180@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >http://www.montgomerie.demon.co.uk/enghood/enghood1.htm >I wouldn't claim this is the way real gable hoods were made, but it comes >out with the right look. I made my "turban" wrap around my head underneath, to hide my hair. The one in the illustration has visible edges next to the wearer's face. And I didn't use a frame, or stiffening, for the gable part, relying entirely on the thickness of the materials I used and the jeweled bit on the front. (I did stiffen the two white "side-wings", with parts cut from the corners of a plastic milk carton. Interesting how several of us have looked at the same portrait and drawn different conclusions as to how this garment was made. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 04:39:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9G8dwIO014031 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 04:39:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G8bb76021664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 02:37:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G8bYCu004469; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 02:37:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9G8bVCu004438 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 02:37:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h9G8cVA12477.; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:38:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:37:27 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:37:21 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum photography &c was V&A exhibition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> glendar@compassnet.com.au 10/16/03 12:35am >>>wrote: [snip] >I was also knockd out by the Cheapside hoard. I was particularly >impressed with the cuts on some of the stones - I'm sure that people have >told me in the past that some of those cuts weren't around till the 19th >century... I took a good look at the Cheapside Hoard when our music group played at the MOL in January. I'd found so little evidence elsewhere of what kind of jewellery middle-class women would have worn in the early 17th century. I didn't think of taking photos, though I did take a couple of snapshots of the musicians (not very successful because done in a hurry as we were about to start playing). A Google search on "Cheapside Hoard" brings up several sites with photos, though, including one of Nicole's. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 07:24:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GBOoIO032674 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:24:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GBNg76027575 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 05:23:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GBNbA5009303; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 05:23:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GBNWA5009254 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 05:23:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p100-nas1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.210.100] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AA6E5-0007JJ-00; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:23:29 +1300 Message-ID: <001a01c393d7$e8bfee10$64d2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F8C4A38.13641.F96A180@localhost> <3F8CA3FD.85D61490@in-tch.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20031014184350.02f8c708@64.87.54.245> <3F8C4A38.13641.F96A180@localhost> <4.3.1.2.20031016002810.0560f230@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses, was V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:23:21 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I made my "turban" wrap around my head underneath, to hide my hair. The > one in the illustration has visible edges next to the wearer's face. This is what I've been mulling over lately. I'd always thought of it as a separate layer, as it does seem to form to the face. And caps and headdresses of various times and places seem to involved much pinning of separate pieces. I was wondering if there was a linen cap, then the striped silk piece wrapped around the head and pinned with the gable hood on top of that, pinned to the turban type wrap. The wrap would give much internal support, and possible help hold up the back if long enough. Hair is all well and good, but women did need their hair cut off on occasion, fevers for one, and the sketch of Anne Bolyen (recently suggested it is her, I'm still not convinced, there is another portrait I think shares her features, but I'm not an expert;) ) shows a cap that doesn't seem to be holding a lot of hair under it. PS, read both pages and this one: http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/englishhood.html As I've been interested in them recently too. Actually the last bears a striking similarity to the pattern in Evolution in Fashion. i must pull that out to make a test... michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 09:05:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GD5YIO000819 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:05:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GD3g76002901 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:03:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GD3ekU023292; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:03:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.primushost.com (smtp3.primushost.com [209.58.220.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GD3akV023212 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:03:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp3.primushost.com with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim) id 1AA7mV-00074Y-Tc; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:03:07 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 1AA7no-0002Ln-00; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:04:28 -0400 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:04:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031016002622.02fbd868@64.87.54.245> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] wine stain on silk X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just got an email forma customer that red wine was spilled on the silk organza over china silk gown I mad efor her. Any suggestions as to how to get the stain out? Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 09:20:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GDKOIO000936 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:20:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GDJh76003563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:19:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GDJfkU001658; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:19:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9GDJbkV001589 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:19:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SAVSMTP 3.1.0.29) with SMTP id M2003101609193127686 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:19:31 -0400 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id h9GDJQ923997 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:19:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <037101c393e8$29764b60$48a810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] wine stain on silk Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:19:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A friend of mine always pours plain old table salt on red wine stains on her tablecloths and says it works. Never tried it myself. Kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 9:04 AM Subject: [h-cost] wine stain on silk > > I just got an email forma customer that red wine was spilled on the silk > organza over china silk gown I mad efor her. Any suggestions as to how > to get the stain out? > > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian > vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 09:23:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GDNrIO000961 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:23:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GDNB76003820 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:23:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GDNAkU003320; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:23:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14002.mail.yahoo.com (web14002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9GDN7kU003302 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:23:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031016132201.76325.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:22:01 BST Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:22:01 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] wine stain on silk To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If she hasn't tried anything else yet, poor white wine over it then cover with salt, then brush the salt off. The red wine stain should be gone. --- Katy Bishop wrote: > > I just got an email forma customer that red wine was > spilled on the silk > organza over china silk gown I mad efor her. Any > suggestions as to how > to get the stain out? > > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian > vintage@shore.net > www.VintageVictorian.com > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 09:26:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GDQDIO000978 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:26:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GDPS76003921 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:25:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GDPRkU004316; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:25:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9GDPPkU004262 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:25:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCrUWHeBk1iPwKYxaceebsqv/ZWpLMJ9Z/w==">; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 06:25:18 PDT Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JCL772SR; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 06:25:18 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:21:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk cleaning Message-ID: <20031016.082121.-7455703.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3,11-17 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's what a 19th century manual says about getting grease out of clothes: Have a hot iron with some thick brown paper; lay the paper on the part where the grease is, then put the iron upon the spot; if the grease comes thru the paper, put another piece, till it does not soil the paper. If not all out, wrap a bit of cloth or flannel round the finger, dip it into spirit of wine, and rub the grease spot; this will take it entirely out. Be careful not to have the iron too hot; but try it on a piece of white paper, if it turns the paper brown, or scorch it in the least it is too hot. Samuel and Sara Adams "The Complete Servant" 1825 (Spirit of Wine= rubbing alchohol) Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 09:40:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GDeGIO001153 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:40:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GDdU76004592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:39:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GDdSkU011078; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:39:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ms-smtp-03.texas.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.texas.rr.com [24.93.36.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GDdPkU011043 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:39:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Isabeau (cs662559-17.houston.rr.com [66.25.59.17]) h9GDdPhO006372 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:39:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <001301c393ea$f17b5d10$0302a8c0@Isabeau> From: "HL Isabeau Quiquandon" To: Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:39:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Fw: Delurking with fabric question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h9GDeGIO001153 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: Terri Hirling To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 8:27 PM Subject: Delurking with fabric question Hi to the members of the H-Costuming list, My name is HL Isabeau Quiquandon (Terri Hirling) and member of the SCA in the Kingdom of Ansteorra (Texas & Oklahoma) and apprenticed to Mistress Kaitlyn McKenna, OL. I've been lurking since joining the list a couple of months ago. I've been playing for about five years and have finally worked up the nerve to try making my first Elizabethan. Of course, I'm starting where all "good" costumers should, with the underpinnings (chemise, corset, farthingale, & bumroll). I want to be as period correct as possible using the correct fabric and (reed) boning as they will be A&S entries. The fabric used for corsets/underpinnings was linen or a linen/cotton called Fustian. Correct? In doing prelimary research on period fabrics for underpinnings, I'm also thinking that maybe linsey-woolsey (linen/wool) may also be considered a 16th century 'period fabric'. The reason I'm questioning the word 'cotton' in the description of Fustian is in searching the web for information I came across a post from a David Rickman (3/31/95, H- costume list) regarding the word 'cotton' and its meaning. I quote his email: "I am not sure if this is of interest to anyone, but recent discussions about the use of cotton by reenactors led me and others into an off the list discussion of just what the word 'cotton' meant to earlier centuries and just what forms it may have been used in (i.e. batting, textiles) and how commonly it was used. "My first indication that this was getting complicated was when Kathleen let us know that Cromwell ordered shirts of linen and of cotton for soldiers bound for the Bahamas. I discovered from the respected early textiles expert, Nathalie Rothstein, that cotton in the 17th century was a word, much like 'flannel', which describes a weave or the surface of cloth, and not its fiber. In fact, in earlier times, 'cotton' most often meant a woolen fabric. ". . . reading through Florence Montgomery's 'Textiles in American, 1650-1870' and picking Nathalie's brain, this is roughly what I came up with. First Florence defines 'cotton': A term used to designate certain woolen cloths from at least the fifteenth century, so one must be cautious in reading the term . . . the explanation of the use of the word cotton may lien in the fact that it had also the sense of nap or down, and the process of raising the nap of woollen cloths was called 'cottoning' or 'frizzing' . . . At the end of the sixteenth century, Manchester was eminent for its woollen cloth or Manchester 'cottons'. ". . . The point of this is not to say that what we call 'cotton' didn't exist in the 14th century, but that when we look for evidence of its use in the written record, we need to know that until well into the 19th century, the word probably means wool, not cotton. ". . . I can, however, report that under 'Fustian' she tells us that it was a cotton/linen fabric, originally a linen/wool. . . . Fustians were made in Norwick, England as early as 1336, but these were a wool/linen mixture. In 1554, Dutch and Walloon immigrants to England brought with them the making of 'fustians of Naples' which probably were cotton/linen, because a 1601 description of fustians says that they were made 'of bombast or Downe, being a fruit of the earth growing upon little shrubs or bushes . . . commonly call Cotton Wooll. . . .' " End quote. What'd ya think????? I've found one fabric source on the web, www.periodfabrics.com, with pictures samples, that carries both 50/50 Fustian @$5.00/yd. SOLD OUT and a 80/20 also @ $5.00/yd.). They also carry linsey woolsey content unknown @ $12.00 but are also SOLD OUT). They can't take internet orders yet so I've left two messages and sent an email, no respond on any of my inquires yet. I'm trying to find out if they will be getting more of the OUT STOCK items any time soon. The weave is even and appears fairly tight on both the linsey woolsey and Fustian. Does anyone who does Civil War reenactment know anything about this company? Is there a better way to get in touch with them? I can also get a fairly tight evenweave linen/cotton percentage unknown) from Fashion Fabrics @$5.00. Soooo, IMHO it seems possible the fabric known as 'linsey woolesy' (used alot by Civil War reenactors) may also qualify as a late 16th century 'period' fabric if you consider the meaning of the word "cotton". Or, am I off base here? Comments on which would be the best choice, fustian or linsey woolsey? Thank you, in advance, for your time and I look forward to your comments. My humblest regards, HL Isabeau Quiquandon (m/k/a Terri Hirling _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 09:46:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GDkOIO001173 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:46:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GDjk76005020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:45:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GDjjkU014490; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:45:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GDjhkU014469 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:45:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h9GDkkA09958.; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:46:46 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:45:42 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:45:13 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk cleaning Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I used a similar method to get candle-wax out of a wool skirt. (I'd carried a wax torch in a procession and got showered with drips.) Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> seamstrix@juno.com 10/16/03 02:21pm >>> Here's what a 19th century manual says about getting grease out of clothes: Have a hot iron with some thick brown paper; lay the paper on the part where the grease is, then put the iron upon the spot; if the grease comes thru the paper, put another piece, till it does not soil the paper. If not all out, wrap a bit of cloth or flannel round the finger, dip it into spirit of wine, and rub the grease spot; this will take it entirely out. Be careful not to have the iron too hot; but try it on a piece of white paper, if it turns the paper brown, or scorch it in the least it is too hot. Samuel and Sara Adams "The Complete Servant" 1825 (Spirit of Wine= rubbing alchohol) Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 09:58:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GDwvIO001231 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:58:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GDwE76006030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:58:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GDwDTW022078; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:58:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9GDwBTW022047 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:58:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 27096 invoked by uid 1005); 16 Oct 2003 13:58:05 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 1.54638 secs); 16 Oct 2003 13:58:05 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 1.54638 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 16 Oct 2003 13:58:03 -0000 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:58:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk cleaning In-Reply-To: <20031016.082121.-7455703.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Message-ID: <20031016095347.K73732-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's funny! Here's what a 16th c. manual says about getting wax & rosin out of clothes: "A verie good way to take forth waxe or rosin dropt on silke, wollen, or linnen. Whereas ye shall have any such occasion to take forth waxe or Rosine dropt on any silkes, or other clothes. First ye shall make a pressing yron hote, or some silver spoone, with a cole of fire therein, take either of them when they be hote, and first whereas any Rosin or wax is dropt, ye shall first rubbe on the sayd droppes of waxe or rosin all over with the end of a tallow candle, then take either your yron or spoone aforesayd, and hold it thereon, laying a peece of browne paper betwixt your yron and your wax, then after yee haue a little so touched it with the heate, (the waxe and tallow will mingle together, and soke into the browne paper) then take it off, and annoint it with the sayd tallow againe, and then hold your hote yron, or spoone, as before, and thus ye must doe, as often as ye shal see cause, untill it be all cleane forth. If the waxe be dropt thorow on both sides, use the one side like the other, and so ys the spotte removed. " (from A Profitable Boke of Dye Receipts , c. 1586 ) Brown paper and an iron...guess things haven't changed much! :) Drea On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > Here's what a 19th century manual says about getting grease out of > clothes: > > > Have a hot iron with some thick brown paper; lay the paper on the part > where the grease is, then put the iron upon the spot; if the grease comes > thru the paper, put another piece, till it does not soil the paper. If > not all out, wrap a bit of cloth or flannel round the finger, dip it into > spirit of wine, and rub the grease spot; this will take it entirely out. > Be careful not to have the iron too hot; but try it on a piece of white > paper, if it turns the paper brown, or scorch it in the least it is too > hot. > > Samuel and Sara Adams "The Complete Servant" 1825 > > (Spirit of Wine= rubbing alchohol) > > > Karen > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 10:18:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GEIlIO001395 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:18:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GEGi76007648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:16:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GEGfTW003119; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:16:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GEGdTW003097 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:16:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.249]) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AA8ve-0003Y7-00; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:16:38 -0700 Message-ID: <26411771.1066313798762.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:16:32 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Christine Krebs-Bonder To: Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Learning to sew X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had to take home ec in junior high school (which really made me mad because I really wanted to take shop but girls weren't allowed to do so in 1974 in my school district). I knew more about sewing than the teacher did because my grandmothers, mom, and several of my aunts were teaching me about sewing and making clothes from the time I was 4 years old. Unfortunately, none of them knew more than the very basic stuff about fitting a pattern so I've had to learn to do that the hard way... Everyone else in the class did these tent dresses that had a zipper in them but no shaping. I made a modified princess style dress with skirt gores and french seams (and actually lost points because I wasn't making the assigned project!). My 14-year-old niece took Home Living Skills 101 this past spring (I guess that's what they call home ec now) and got her "sewing machine license" (meaning that she can thread the machine, wind and insert a bobbin properly, sew straight seams and put in an ordinary zipper). She is learning to do the other stuff from her mom and me. We're talking to one of our local tailors (he's in his 70's) about the possibility of having her apprentice with him so she can learn shaping and fitting. Heck, I might just go ahead and see if I can learn from him as well. I'd much rather give him my money than the Stitching Post that seems to think the only thing people want to learn is Martha Stewart home decor sewing... Christine in Dayton >^..^< _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 10:24:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GEOiIO001423 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:24:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GEO176008188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GENxTW007901; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:23:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav12.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GENvTW007851 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:23:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:23:52 -0700 Received: from 66.131.9.61 by bay9-dav12.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:23:52 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.131.9.61] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001301c393ea$f17b5d10$0302a8c0@Isabeau> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: Delurking with fabric question Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:25:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Oct 2003 14:23:52.0635 (UTC) FILETIME=[1FCBB0B0:01C393F1] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I've been playing for about five years and have finally worked up the nerve to try making my first Elizabethan. Of course, I'm starting where all "good" costumers should, with the underpinnings (chemise, corset, farthingale, & bumroll). I want to be as period correct as possible using the correct fabric and (reed) boning as they will be A&S entries. Why only reed boning? I know whalebone is not available anymore, but I also know reeds were not the only alternative. > The fabric used for corsets/underpinnings was linen or a linen/cotton called Fustian. Correct? Yes, but you have to add silk to that, especially for the outer layers. I'm by no means an expert, but I'm sure some other kind souls will help you with that one :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 11:30:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GFUOIO001946 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:30:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GFTG76013945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:29:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GFTBIo027492; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:29:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GFT9Io027450 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:29:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f20.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.32]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 0025F480024 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:29:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c393fa$c588f4a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:32:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] justeaucorps skirts falling right. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nicole. Wasnt you saying something about, they made a fabric joint in the skirts, to have it fall right? As i understand it, they only made this fabric joint because the width of fabric then was only about 57 cm. This would make it nescesary to make a fabric joint in the full skirt. But it would be possible to cut a whole justeaucorps front in one piece today, because we have wide fabrics. It has nothing to do with the skirt falling right. It would fall just as well, in one piece. It only has something to do with the way you have your cut in direction of the fabric. It was purely nescesity to make that fabric joint, not for anything to make it fall better. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 11:35:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GFZFIO001982 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:35:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GFXe76014427 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:33:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GFXcIo001539; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:33:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GFXXIo001432 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:33:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f20.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.32]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DB90047FEFF for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:33:32 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000d01c393fb$6449ac10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:37:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] muslin model of justeaucorps. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi the list. Is it not strange. The pattern i use, is in the same size as the original model Gustav III. The only alteration i had to make to make it fit me was making the armhole 1 cm. deeper and lift up the "skirt" 3 cm. No alterations in the width of jacket. So actually Gustav III was 3 cm. taller than i am. That is a huge man for those days, most 18th century i have seen are much smaller. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 11:39:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GFdPIO002010 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:39:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GFcN76014842 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:38:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GFcLIo006081; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:38:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GFcIIo006048 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:38:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.129.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.129] helo=4gxif) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AAACe-0003E1-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:38:17 -0700 Message-ID: <01ea01c393fb$8ad9a6a0$27943a41@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001301c393ea$f17b5d10$0302a8c0@Isabeau> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:38:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef39121b6317fc15f72b10f29c2da18063350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Subject: [h-cost] Re: Delurking with fabric question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Terri/Isabeau- I have ordered from periodfabrics.com before, by phone, and they were friendly, accurate and prompt. (I use them as a source of 100% cotton twill for modern pants and jackets.) Just call them. -Helen/Aidan It wasn't for perio ----- Original Message ----- From: "HL Isabeau Quiquandon" To: Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 9:39 AM Subject: [h-cost] Fw: Delurking with fabric question ----- Original Message ----- From: Terri Hirling To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 8:27 PM Subject: Delurking with fabric question Hi to the members of the H-Costuming list, My name is HL Isabeau Quiquandon (Terri Hirling) and member of the SCA in the Kingdom of Ansteorra (Texas & Oklahoma) and apprenticed to Mistress Kaitlyn McKenna, OL. I've been lurking since joining the list a couple of months ago. I've been playing for about five years and have finally worked up the nerve to try making my first Elizabethan. Of course, I'm starting where all "good" costumers should, with the underpinnings (chemise, corset, farthingale, & bumroll). I want to be as period correct as possible using the correct fabric and (reed) boning as they will be A&S entries. The fabric used for corsets/underpinnings was linen or a linen/cotton called Fustian. Correct? In doing prelimary research on period fabrics for underpinnings, I'm also thinking that maybe linsey-woolsey (linen/wool) may also be considered a 16th century 'period fabric'. The reason I'm questioning the word 'cotton' in the description of Fustian is in searching the web for information I came across a post from a David Rickman (3/31/95, H- costume list) regarding the word 'cotton' and its meaning. I quote his email: "I am not sure if this is of interest to anyone, but recent discussions about the use of cotton by reenactors led me and others into an off the list discussion of just what the word 'cotton' meant to earlier centuries and just what forms it may have been used in (i.e. batting, textiles) and how commonly it was used. "My first indication that this was getting complicated was when Kathleen let us know that Cromwell ordered shirts of linen and of cotton for soldiers bound for the Bahamas. I discovered from the respected early textiles expert, Nathalie Rothstein, that cotton in the 17th century was a word, much like 'flannel', which describes a weave or the surface of cloth, and not its fiber. In fact, in earlier times, 'cotton' most often meant a woolen fabric. ". . . reading through Florence Montgomery's 'Textiles in American, 1650-1870' and picking Nathalie's brain, this is roughly what I came up with. First Florence defines 'cotton': A term used to designate certain woolen cloths from at least the fifteenth century, so one must be cautious in reading the term . . . the explanation of the use of the word cotton may lien in the fact that it had also the sense of nap or down, and the process of raising the nap of woollen cloths was called 'cottoning' or 'frizzing' . . . At the end of the sixteenth century, Manchester was eminent for its woollen cloth or Manchester 'cottons'. ". . . The point of this is not to say that what we call 'cotton' didn't exist in the 14th century, but that when we look for evidence of its use in the written record, we need to know that until well into the 19th century, the word probably means wool, not cotton. ". . . I can, however, report that under 'Fustian' she tells us that it was a cotton/linen fabric, originally a linen/wool. . . . Fustians were made in Norwick, England as early as 1336, but these were a wool/linen mixture. In 1554, Dutch and Walloon immigrants to England brought with them the making of 'fustians of Naples' which probably were cotton/linen, because a 1601 description of fustians says that they were made 'of bombast or Downe, being a fruit of the earth growing upon little shrubs or bushes . . . commonly call Cotton Wooll. . . .' " End quote. What'd ya think????? I've found one fabric source on the web, www.periodfabrics.com, with pictures samples, that carries both 50/50 Fustian @$5.00/yd. SOLD OUT and a 80/20 also @ $5.00/yd.). They also carry linsey woolsey content unknown @ $12.00 but are also SOLD OUT). They can't take internet orders yet so I've left two messages and sent an email, no respond on any of my inquires yet. I'm trying to find out if they will be getting more of the OUT STOCK items any time soon. The weave is even and appears fairly tight on both the linsey woolsey and Fustian. Does anyone who does Civil War reenactment know anything about this company? Is there a better way to get in touch with them? I can also get a fairly tight evenweave linen/cotton percentage unknown) from Fashion Fabrics @$5.00. Soooo, IMHO it seems possible the fabric known as 'linsey woolesy' (used alot by Civil War reenactors) may also qualify as a late 16th century 'period' fabric if you consider the meaning of the word "cotton". Or, am I off base here? Comments on which would be the best choice, fustian or linsey woolsey? Thank you, in advance, for your time and I look forward to your comments. My humblest regards, HL Isabeau Quiquandon (m/k/a Terri Hirling _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 11:40:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GFeFIO002016 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:40:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GFdH76014954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:39:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GFdGIo006934; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:39:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GFdDIo006828 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:39:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.12b.332d14b2 (4552) for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:38:53 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <12b.332d14b2.2cc0158d@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:38:53 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] muslin model of justeaucorps. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/16/2003 11:35:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > So actually Gustav III was 3 cm. taller than i am. That is a huge > man for those days, most 18th century i have seen are much smaller. > Maybe it was those high heels... ;-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 11:59:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GFx4IO002479 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:59:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GFwC76016754 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:58:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GFw9GK023206; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:58:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GFw6GK023053 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:58:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 348414 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:58:00 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:02:35 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] YET More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031015180846.00b083e8@64.87.54.245> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You're right, Kimiko, it is frustrating to find the right classes at the right times in most places. But one of my points was that even taking a beginning quilting class will teach a new sewer the basics to sewing, even if it doesn't teach them how to fit. Kinda like learning to read then write. LynnD On 10/15/03 6:10 PM, "Kimiko Small" wrote: > At 11:24 AM 10/15/2003 -0700, you wrote: >> In Berkeley CA, one of the best places to learn >> is Stone Mountain and Daughter, and I'm sure there's a place like this in >> most cities. > > > I so wish. The stores around here give classes on quilting, home dec, and > crafts. The one time I saw a class listing for basic sewing, it was during > the morning hours, I guess for people who have nothing to do during the > day. Definitely not for people who work, or people who take care of kids > during the day. > > Kimiko > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 12:07:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GG7NIO002575 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:07:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GG6a76017546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:06:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GG6ZGK000655; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:06:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GG6WGK000554 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:06:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 348440 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:06:27 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:11:01 -0700 Subject: Re: Learning to sew was: Re: [h-cost] YET More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 10/15/03 8:15 PM, "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" wrote: >> We too had home ec in junior high school (40+ years ago before home ec was >> politically incorrect) > > We had home ec. in high school, that was in the late 1990's. We did a pair > of boxer shorts. We learned how to sew a straight seam, and that's about it. > I didn't learn anything there - my mother had already taught me that when I > was helping her sew my Halloween costumes. > >> I agree with this also. And I find that my daughters don't want to learn >> from me, especially the 17 year old. Moms are usually idiots when it comes >> to teaching. > > I don't know what your relationship with your daughters is, but I learned to > sew with my mom. I learned a lot of things by osmosis, and then she had me > sew straight seams. And then for a couple of months I called for help when I > needed it. I still go to her when I have questions about a pattern. I found > that practice is the best way to learn - and asking questions when I'm > unsure of something. But we parted company a couple of years ago when I > decided that I didn't need a pattern to make a T-tunic :-) Please don't think I'm being defensive here. My relationship with my daughter is fine except when I try to teach her anything - cooking, crochet, embroidery, sewing. They want to learn by within an hour we have to separate. I'm sure it's as much my teaching style as it is my daughter's independence and stubbornness. We get along great except for that. And she wants to sew and I want to teach her, but it just doesn't work. I want to get her into a basic sewing class and then answer her questions rather than try to sew something with her. LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 12:14:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GGEGIO002590 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:14:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GGDO76018209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:13:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GGDMGK006617; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:13:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GGDJGK006565 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:13:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip161.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.161]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65ACC6DAF6 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:13:17 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:13:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses, was V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition Message-ID: <3F8E6149.22286.17C0BC75@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001a01c393d7$e8bfee10$64d2adcb@michaela> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I was wondering if there was a linen cap, then the striped silk piece > wrapped around the head and pinned with the gable hood on top of that, > pinned to the turban type wrap. The wrap would give much internal > support, and possible help hold up the back if long enough. Hair is > all well and good, but women did need their hair cut off on occasion, > fevers for one, and the sketch of Anne Bolyen (recently suggested it > is her, I'm still not convinced, there is another portrait I think > shares her features, but I'm not an expert;) ) shows a cap that > doesn't seem to be holding a lot of hair under it. I agree that there was probably some sort of linen undercap. I don't know if it was the same one in the socalled Anne Boleyn sketc. It just seems too bulk. And they'd have to tuck in the cheek pieces and remove the neck piece at some point. But it could have been a cap similar to the one under the French Hood (which would be easier to tuck in after your Gable was in place) or something more like the men's coif of the 12-15thC which at some point also began being used by women (as evidenced by the embroidered Spanish one from the late 16th C and perhaps related to the late Elizabethan embroidered coifs.) I definitely wear a coif under my Lettice cap. In some of the paintings you can see a little band like edge at the upper edge peaking out of the smaller Lettice caps and it makes it easier for the Lettice cap to sit properly if it has a coif beneath it. I suspect it would do the same for the Gable. However, in all the pictures I've ever found of gabled hoods, there is no portion of coif even partially visible. (But it could be completely tucked in.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 12:19:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GGJZIO002615 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:19:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GGIj76018686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:18:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GGIhGK011325; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:18:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GGIeGK011196 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:18:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 348452 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:18:34 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:23:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: YET etc., but this is it for me From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1c2.104f262a.2cbf73d0@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 10/15/03 9:08 PM, "PallasAMK@aol.com" wrote: > For Lynne and Kat > > First: Here's a link on inserting invisible zippers using a regular zipper > foot. It's not the one I had bookmarked, but like many things in the ether > the > original has gone away. This one looks pretty close, though: > > HREF="http://www.fabric-mill.com/invisibleZipper.htm">http://www.fabric-mill.c > om/invisibleZipper.htm > Athene, Thanks for the links. The first is clear - makes it almost too easy. I wasn't able to open the second one however. I've printed the first one out and will practice this weekend. > Second, I do want to assure both of you that, in fact I DIDN'T learn more > than I thought I did from my home ec sewing teacher. What I learned was how > to > insert a zipper--and although I do not underestimate the importance of that, > that was exactly what I got. I already knew how to sew straight seams and do > casings, which was the sum total of what she taught. Granted, we were > obnoxious > in a way that only adolescents can be, but nonetheless, that was what she > knew; that was what she taught. No grain lines, no bias. Nada. If your own > experiences involved better teachers, I am envious, but no misty-eyed mornings > with fond remembrances of Mrs. Sprecher and how she put me on the road to > sewing > bliss for me. I came by the love of this hobby on my own, and I am mostly > self taught. > I had learned the basic skills from my mom, but it was the first place I set in a sleeve or made a buttonhole (bound of course, no easy way for us). No, I have no warm and fuzzy memories of my teacher at all, poor woman. LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 12:24:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GGOIIO002625 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:24:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GGMq76019121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:22:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GGMqGK015235; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:22:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GGMnGK015100 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:22:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.105.37cfc0d1 (16099) for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-d16.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.132]) by air-id11.mx.aol.com (v96.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID113-3ee33f8ec58c239; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:21:32 -0400 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:21:32 -0400 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0308A3BC.74E008F6.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.161.88 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Emboridery Supplies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have having the worst time finding lark quantaties of silk thread (read: floss) for blackwork at a decent prices. Does anyone have a vendor/merchant you would like to share with me? Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 12:34:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GGYGIO002666 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:34:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GGVw76019845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:31:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GGVuGK023062; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:31:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GGVqGK023003 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:31:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f20.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.32]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 90BBB262995 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:31:50 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001101c39403$8b772580$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <0308A3BC.74E008F6.0BD9917F@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Emboridery Supplies Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:35:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://threadexpress.com/Default.asp Very nice service. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 6:21 PM Subject: [h-cost] Emboridery Supplies > I have having the worst time finding lark quantaties of silk thread (read: floss) for blackwork at a decent prices. Does anyone have a vendor/merchant you would like to share with me? > > Kit > If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 12:35:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GGZsIO002688 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:35:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GGZ076020113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GGYxGK025842; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:35:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GGYuGK025794 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:34:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip161.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.161]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05C2F6A9AB for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:34:55 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:35:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Message-ID: <3F8E6655.5814.17D474EB@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20031016070426.63472.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This is confusing to me, because curled cypress has been equated with > crepe, and crepe is definitely not crisp. If you could give me a > direct quote about curled cypress it would be much appreciated. I think it depends on the crepe. Crepe refers to the process of overtwisting the thread before it is used in weaving. It tends to give a texture to the surface of the fabric, but the hand of the fabric depends on the actual fibres used to make it. A crepe made of silk and linen would feel different (and I believe be stiffer/crisper) than a wool crepe or polyester crepe (which are more like what we associate with the word "crepe.") For reference: M.Channing Linthicum, _Costume in the Drama of Shakespeare and his Contemporaries_ Oxford, 1936 (too old for an ISBN). Reference page 118-9. She puts in several source from inventories and other legal manuscrips, as well as from literature. In the foot note she writes that "curled cypress" indicated that it was the crepe. Uses noted in these are for things like headwear, partlets, foresleeves, neckware and laces. No mention of hose. There might also be some information in _The Inventories of Henry VIII_ edited by Starkey if you need something from an earlier point in the 16thC. From what I recall, their definitions and the inventory items containing them were pretty much the same as those in Linthicum. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 12:46:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GGkUIO002777 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:46:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GGjg76021075 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:45:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GGjYGK005185; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:45:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GGjQGK005035 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:45:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f20.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.32]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 623B35EE119 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:45:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001f01c39405$6d97ad30$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:49:12 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] to curve a pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I have a question i cant figure it out. I have Corel Draw, a wonderfull computer program for everything in drawing. If i have a pattern i want to curve a little, how do i do that? It must be possible to do it on the puter. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 12:49:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GGnHIO002802 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:49:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GGm576021340 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:48:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GGm4GK007407; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:48:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from solomon.io.com (solomon.io.com [199.170.88.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GGlPGL006868 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:47:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by solomon.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9GGme2Z028106 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:48:40 -0500 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h9GGmQ6s013952 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:48:26 -0500 Received: from 199.50.29.41 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:48:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <28966.199.50.29.41.1066322906.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:48:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Emboridery Supplies From: "Chiara" To: In-Reply-To: <0308A3BC.74E008F6.0BD9917F@aol.com> References: <0308A3BC.74E008F6.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What country are you in? > I have having the worst time finding lark quantaties of silk thread > (read: floss) for blackwork at a decent prices. Does anyone have a > vendor/merchant you would like to share with me? > > Kit > If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - > Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 13:10:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GHAiIO002933 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:10:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GH9v76023381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:09:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GH9ts6027203; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:09:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GH9rs6027154 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:09:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip161.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.161]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E3A66DA0B for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:09:51 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:10:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3F8E6E82.32766.17F46465@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Subject: [h-cost] Re: Learning to sew was: Re: YET More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Please don't think I'm being defensive here. My relationship with my > daughter is fine except when I try to teach her anything - cooking, > crochet, embroidery, sewing. They want to learn by within an hour we > have to separate. I'm sure it's as much my teaching style as it is my > daughter's independence and stubbornness. We get along great except > for that. And she wants to sew and I want to teach her, but it just > doesn't work. I want to get her into a basic sewing class and then > answer her questions rather than try to sew something with her. > LynnD Your experience with your daughter is not only typical but entirely normal. Don't blame your teaching style. She's probably at the age where she's trying to be an independent person as opposed to an appendage of the family. It's actually much more unusual for teens and pre-teens to want to have their mom teach them something. I think that this is at least partly because our society doesn't have a standard "transition" for independence from the family. There are so many options (marry, attend school to become a professional, go directly into the work force or batten down on the parental units or friends) that it makes it more difficult for the teen to feel the best way to separate other than to rebel (even if it is in such a minor way as not cooperating with parental teaching.) After she's been through a few sewing classes and had her independence, she will appreciate your advice even more. As long as the parent helps them to "escape the nest" rather than preventing its occurrence, it doesn't take long for them to appreciate you. Before too many years have passed you'll be working together on projects where your interests in costuming coincide. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 13:15:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GHFCIO002988 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:15:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHEE76023751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:14:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHEDs6001111; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:14:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from exchange.lynchburg.edu ([161.115.184.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHE9s6001050 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:14:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by exchange.lynchburg.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <40X2ZMC0>; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:14:08 -0400 Message-ID: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA9507@exchange.lynchburg.edu> From: "Formo, Nathan" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:14:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [h-cost] Pants question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just finished a pair of knee length slops and panes. I was sort of mixing styles since the last pair of SandP's I had were just a little too short and tight for me to move comfortably in. (I blame the pattern now.) Anyway I thought it would look nice to have the pants tie right above the knee. I'm not sure if that's a period way of designing it or not. I'm sure I've seen this used in Colonial clothing. Since I was making the pants loose fitting I wanted to be able to tie up whatever slack I had above the knee. My problem is this. If I tie the drawsting above the knee with the leg straigt then it's fine unless I try to bend my knee. I can't bend my knee deeply without the leg being very tight. But if I tie the string with my knee bent then the opening is wide enough that it slips down over my knee when the leg is straight. Now I actually got the pants length pretty much correct so it doesn't go down that far. But it bugs me that it won't stay above my knee. I'm left with several different possibilites. I'm just wondering which one is correct. 1. I take a lot of ballet and dance classes so my knee muscles are built up. On most people this would have worked? 2. This happens to everyone and you are just supposed to keep it loose not tight? 3. The pants should have been cut so that they weren't long enough to go over the knee. Not with an extra inch that's tied up? 4. Pants weren't tied like that. Either I imagined it or what I thought were practical ties were just decoration? Overall I'm happy with how these turned out. For my third time with a sewing machine I'm getting a lot of praise from mundane friends about how fancy they are. And they really aren't a problem. When tied loosely they hang to about the center of my knee. So they are only about an inch or two off of what I had been aiming for. I'm just curious as to wether I designed them wrong of what? Thanks for any help. Bjorn Arnaldsson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 13:16:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GHGuIO003002 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:16:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHGB76023910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:16:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHGAs6002845; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:16:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHG6s6002709 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:16:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.7f.3dd57be0 (15700) for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:15:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m04.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.132]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (v96.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID52-3d543f8ed24f29e; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:15:59 -0400 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:15:59 -0400 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <77A8F43F.67B275F4.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.161.88 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Looking for a Book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is a book that covers the building of the Maria of Hungary dress, does anyone know which book this is? Can you send me the info? Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 13:17:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GHHMIO003005 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:17:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHGR76023949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:16:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHGQs6003107; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:16:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt23.cluster1.charter.net (remt23.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHGLs6002906 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:16:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.196.146.50] (HELO laptop) by remt23.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with SMTP id 554792 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:16:16 -0400 Message-ID: <006801c39409$14e9f7c0$3292c418@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <0308A3BC.74E008F6.0BD9917F@aol.com> <001101c39403$8b772580$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Emboridery Supplies Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:15:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > http://threadexpress.com/Default.asp > > > Very nice service. > > Bjarne I second this recommendation! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 13:26:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GHQNIO003053 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:26:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHPW76025056 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:25:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHPTs6011328; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:25:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHPQs6011192 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:25:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.62.36081d90 (15900) for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:25:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m22.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.138]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v96.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID93-3e1c3f8ed471242; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:25:06 -0400 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:25:05 -0400 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Emboridery Supplies MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <324AAE7C.421D8FED.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.161.88 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/16/2003 12:48:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, chiara@io.com writes: > What country are you in? I suppose that would have helped huh? I am in U.S.A. however, I am willing to order from anyplace else. Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 13:30:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GHUPIO003090 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:30:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHT576025482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:29:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHT4s6014616; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:29:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.thibault.org [66.92.75.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHT0s7014490 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by sergyar.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h9GHawPi005234 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:36:58 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by sergyar.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:36:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F8ED588.6070209@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:29:44 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Learning to sew was: Re: [h-cost] YET More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lynn Downward wrote: > Please don't think I'm being defensive here. My relationship with my > daughter is fine except when I try to teach her anything - cooking, crochet, > embroidery, sewing. They want to learn by within an hour we have to > separate. I'm sure it's as much my teaching style as it is my daughter's > independence and stubbornness. I'm sure it's not your teaching. I remember quite clearly interactions with my mother, when she tried to teach me (and others) CPR when I was a teen. She's an excellent Biology teacher, and she and I found it very frustrating. It's just a developmental stage -- for both of you! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Education and religion are two things not regulated by supply and demand. The less of either the people have, the less they want. -- Charlotte Observer, 1897 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 13:36:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GHaWIO003119 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:36:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHZX76026137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:35:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHZTs6020482; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:35:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHZOs6020409 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:35:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.121.22.69] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A62DAD10154; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:32:29 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20031015.184511.-476307.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> References: <20031015.184511.-476307.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:21:57 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:41:28 -0700 Rima writes: >> >> OOOOOO and RESTORATION stuff! The only Restoration pattern I know >> >> out there is Richard the Thread, and I didn't get great results with >> >> it..... >> >> Guess I'll have to draft that one myself too.... unless someone >> knows >> a pattern out there that can rescue me! >> >> Rima > >Ironically, for Restoration there's actually a commercial pattern that >looks pretty good but it's for men. oh, that's fine! I'm a cross-dresser half the time! ;-D >It's Butterick #6844. It's marketed >as a clerical cassock, but the lines are perfect for men's restoration if >you shorten the hem a bit. Thanks Karen! I'll check it out! Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 13:48:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GHmBIO003253 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:48:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHlI76027159 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:47:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHl6s6000683; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:47:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHl3s6000563 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:47:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.127.329e8aeb (15898) for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:46:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m14.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.130]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v96.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID91-3e1a3f8ed98d3a5; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:46:53 2000 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:46:53 -0400 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <337F58F2.0F78282B.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.161.88 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/14/2003 5:29:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PallasAMK writes: > I'm always sort of stunned when people expect "ready made" patterns to fit. How could they? Just a perfunctory glance > at our various descriptions of ourselves I know that my problem was (when I used them in the past) is that I can walk into a store, try on an item and I know what I to expect from that item even before I get into the dressing room. I have never had any two pattersn from the same company, sometimes even the same designer, that fit the same way. Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 13:53:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GHrBIO003278 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:53:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHq576027608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:52:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHpss6005091; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:51:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHpqs6005054 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:51:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.113]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:49:37 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: Learning to sew was: Re: [h-cost] YET More on the Whole Big 3Pattern Thing Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:51:56 -0400 Message-ID: <000101c3940e$327b4be0$716453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Please don't think I'm being defensive here. My relationship with my >daughter is fine except when I try to teach her anything - cooking, >crochet, >embroidery, sewing. They want to learn by within an hour we have to >separate. I'm sure it's as much my teaching style as it is my daughter's >independence and stubbornness. We get along great except for that. And she >wants to sew and I want to teach her, but it just doesn't work. I want to >get her into a basic sewing class and then answer her questions rather than >try to sew something with her. Don't worry, Lynn. I think that's just normal. Once I passed the age of 13, I couldn't work with my Mum on projects anymore. We'd just annoy each other. I think that's just teenagers... Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 13:57:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GHv7IO003304 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:57:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHu776027996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:56:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHttNu008444; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:55:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9GHtpNu008363 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:55:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 79229 invoked by uid 1005); 16 Oct 2003 17:55:44 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.076851 secs); 16 Oct 2003 17:55:44 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.076851 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 16 Oct 2003 17:55:43 -0000 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:55:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings In-Reply-To: <3F8E6655.5814.17D474EB@localhost> Message-ID: <20031016125620.K73732-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've also seen reference to "curled lawn" in QE's wardrobe accounts, which (I'm assuming) would have a texture similar to curled cypress... Drea On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > This is confusing to me, because curled cypress has been equated with > > crepe, and crepe is definitely not crisp. If you could give me a > > direct quote about curled cypress it would be much appreciated. > > I think it depends on the crepe. Crepe refers to the process of > overtwisting the thread before it is used in weaving. It tends to > give a texture to the surface of the fabric, but the hand of the > fabric depends on the actual fibres used to make it. A crepe made of > silk and linen would feel different (and I believe be > stiffer/crisper) than a wool crepe or polyester crepe (which are more > like what we associate with the word "crepe.") > > For reference: > > M.Channing Linthicum, _Costume in the Drama of Shakespeare and his > Contemporaries_ Oxford, 1936 (too old for an ISBN). Reference page > 118-9. > > She puts in several source from inventories and other legal > manuscrips, as well as from literature. In the foot note she writes > that "curled cypress" indicated that it was the crepe. Uses noted in > these are for things like headwear, partlets, foresleeves, neckware > and laces. No mention of hose. > > There might also be some information in _The Inventories of Henry > VIII_ edited by Starkey if you need something from an earlier point > in the 16thC. From what I recall, their definitions and the inventory > items containing them were pretty much the same as those in > Linthicum. > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 13:57:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GHvcIO003311 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:57:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHug76028042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:56:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHuVNu008935; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:56:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHuJNu008750 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:56:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.113]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:54:05 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] to curve a pattern Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:56:25 -0400 Message-ID: <000301c3940e$d25a4490$716453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <001f01c39405$6d97ad30$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, I don't know Corel Draw very well, but in other drawing programs (like Illustrator) there's a function called "distort" or "transform" or "shear". It allows you to select an object, like the sides of your pattern, and bend it. Perhaps there is a similar function in Corel. Good luck! I'd hate to have to see you redraw the whole thing! Kass -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: 16 October 2003 12:49 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] to curve a pattern Hi, I have a question i cant figure it out. I have Corel Draw, a wonderfull computer program for everything in drawing. If i have a pattern i want to curve a little, how do i do that? It must be possible to do it on the puter. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 14:03:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GI3ZIO003341 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:03:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GI2c76028593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:02:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GI2PNu014524; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:02:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9GI2LNu014449 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:02:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 12978 invoked by uid 1005); 16 Oct 2003 18:02:11 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.381077 secs); 16 Oct 2003 18:02:11 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.381077 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 16 Oct 2003 18:02:10 -0000 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:02:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Learning to sew was: Re: YET More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing In-Reply-To: <3F8E6E82.32766.17F46465@localhost> Message-ID: <20031016135854.A73732-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > Please don't think I'm being defensive here. My relationship with my > > daughter is fine except when I try to teach her anything - cooking, > > crochet, embroidery, sewing. They want to learn by within an hour we > > have to separate. I'm sure it's as much my teaching style as it is my > > daughter's independence and stubbornness. We get along great except > > for that. And she wants to sew and I want to teach her, but it just > > doesn't work. I want to get her into a basic sewing class and then > > answer her questions rather than try to sew something with her. > > LynnD > I completely understand your situation...when I was young and learning to play the piano, I would get terribly, unreasonably mad when my mother tried to teach me. I don't know why I did, even now. Neither does she. Her teaching technique was great. But when she sent me off to a piano teacher, things went a /lot/ more smoothly. :) I think it was an independence issue of some kind. Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 14:04:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GI4wIO003354 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:04:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHxO76028227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:59:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHxENu011448; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:59:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GHxANu011340 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:59:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 348820 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:59:04 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:03:39 -0700 Subject: Re: Learning to sew was: Re: [h-cost] YET More on the Whole Big 3Pattern Thing From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000101c3940e$327b4be0$716453d8@Kass> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9GHxANu011340 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for all your support. Kate's a wonderful person and I'm proud of her brightness, common sense and her whole personality. But she's wants what she wants and will do what she wants to do, and she's been like this since she could walk and talk. We can have great times together - as long as I don¹t try to teach her anything. As I told Kat in a private message, I've gotten what I deserved. I saw the musical "Kiss Me Kate' when I was ten and decided that I wanted to have that strong, independent Kate of Kate's Hall for my own daughter. My husband agreed on the name, and our first daughter is Kate the Shrew - luckily only at home. I wasn't much better as a teen, but it sure does get frustrating. Now I know that my mother was saint. I was difficult but my sister was impossible! LynnD On 10/16/03 10:51 AM, "Kass McGann" wrote: >> Please don't think I'm being defensive here. My relationship with my >> daughter is fine except when I try to teach her anything - cooking, >> crochet, >> embroidery, sewing. They want to learn by within an hour we have to >> separate. I'm sure it's as much my teaching style as it is my > daughter's >> independence and stubbornness. We get along great except for that. And > she >> wants to sew and I want to teach her, but it just doesn't work. I want > to >> get her into a basic sewing class and then answer her questions rather > than >> try to sew something with her. > > Don't worry, Lynn. I think that's just normal. Once I passed the age > of 13, I couldn't work with my Mum on projects anymore. We'd just annoy > each other. I think that's just teenagers... > > Kass > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 14:06:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GI6GIO003367 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:06:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GI5K76028842 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:05:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GI5ANu016956; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:05:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GI56Nu016892 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.113]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:02:52 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] muslin model of justeaucorps. Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:05:12 -0400 Message-ID: <000401c39410$0c439890$716453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <000d01c393fb$6449ac10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Bjarne, Call me kookie, but sometimes I think things "get themselves made", if you know what I mean. The first extant garment I ever examined was a 16th century gown called the Shinrone gown. I measured it and made a replica to match the original. And then I tried it on... It FIT! Perfectly! They *say* Irishwomen weren't that tall (I'm 5'8"). But it fit me like it was made for me. Bust, waist, back waist. Everything was right! When I told this story to a woman in Shinrone, Ireland, where the gown was found, she said, "I bet your ancestors are from here and that's how they talk to you." Well, my ancestors are from Galway, about as far away as you can get from Shinrone and still be in Ireland. But the thought was cool. So maybe King Gustav is speaking to you, Bjarne, and asking you not to forget him. Or maybe we're just damn lucky not to have to do many alterations! =) Kass -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: 16 October 2003 11:37 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] muslin model of justeaucorps. Hi the list. Is it not strange. The pattern i use, is in the same size as the original model Gustav III. The only alteration i had to make to make it fit me was making the armhole 1 cm. deeper and lift up the "skirt" 3 cm. No alterations in the width of jacket. So actually Gustav III was 3 cm. taller than i am. That is a huge man for those days, most 18th century i have seen are much smaller. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 14:08:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GI8cIO003375 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:08:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GI7r76029050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:07:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GI7eNu019078; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:07:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.primushost.com (smtp3.primushost.com [209.58.220.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GI7aNv018925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:07:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp3.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1AACWi-0002GR-A1; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:07:08 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for id 1AACFn-0006V2-00; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:49:39 -0400 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:49:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: Kate Pinner Subject: Re: [h-cost] wine stain on silk In-Reply-To: <037101c393e8$29764b60$48a810ac@Kate> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Historical Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO She aid they tried salt, that's all the info I have, whatdo you do once the salt is added? Katy On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, Kate Pinner wrote: >A friend of mine always pours plain old table salt on red wine stains on her >tablecloths and says it works. Never tried it myself. >Kate >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Katy Bishop" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 9:04 AM >Subject: [h-cost] wine stain on silk > > >> >> I just got an email forma customer that red wine was spilled on the silk >> organza over china silk gown I mad efor her. Any suggestions as to how >> to get the stain out? >> >> Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian >> vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com >> Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. >> Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 14:14:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GIE3IO003391 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:14:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GID476029559 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:13:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GICnNu023224; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:12:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hiram.io.com (root@hiram.io.com [199.170.88.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GICkNu023166 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:12:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by hiram.io.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9GICl928074 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:12:47 -0500 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h9GIDl7C008099 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:13:47 -0500 Received: from 199.50.29.41 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:13:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <13737.199.50.29.41.1066328027.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:13:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Learning to sew was: Re: YET More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing From: "Chiara" To: In-Reply-To: <20031016135854.A73732-100000@shell.siscom.net> References: <3F8E6E82.32766.17F46465@localhost> <20031016135854.A73732-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ditto, my 8 year old and I have finally come to this point. Making her halloween costume this weekend was not the fun project it once was in the past. It was hell. Her frustration level hit fast and hard. It never occured to me all the things that you all are pointing out here and now I can see with new eyes. Thanks guys! :) Chiara >> >> > Please don't think I'm being defensive here. My relationship with my >> daughter is fine except when I try to teach her anything - cooking, >> crochet, embroidery, sewing. They want to learn by within an hour we >> have to separate. I'm sure it's as much my teaching style as it is >> my daughter's independence and stubbornness. We get along great >> except for that. And she wants to sew and I want to teach her, but >> it just doesn't work. I want to get her into a basic sewing class >> and then answer her questions rather than try to sew something with >> her. LynnD >> > > I completely understand your situation...when I was young and learning > to play the piano, I would get terribly, unreasonably mad when my mother > tried to teach me. I don't know why I did, even now. Neither does she. > Her teaching technique was great. But when she sent me off to a piano > teacher, things went a /lot/ more smoothly. :) I think it was an > independence issue of some kind. > > Drea > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 14:22:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GIMCIO003410 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:22:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GILJ76000392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:21:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIL1Nu000562; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIKtNu000435 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:20:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.121.22.69] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A0D765C013A; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:17:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000e01c39392$e93c5760$b36453d8@Kass> References: <000e01c39392$e93c5760$b36453d8@Kass> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:03:36 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: RE: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kass wrote: >Rima wrote: ><out there is Richard the Thread, and I didn't get great results with >it..... >Guess I'll have to draft that one myself too.... unless someone knows a >pattern out there that can rescue me!>> > >All depends on how soon you need the pattern and how long you're willing >to wait. My company is definitely planning on doing patterns for >Restoration era historical clothing. But I have to slog through the ECW >and Irish patterns first. =) LOL! Hey, those sound great too! I'm not in any hurry. Just would love to build some stuff from that era, and I don't know enough about it..... too crazed with other things to do the research... ;-D >Karen wrote: ><looks pretty good but it's for men. It's Butterick #6844. It's marketed >as a clerical cassock, but the lines are perfect for men's restoration >if you shorten the hem a bit.>> > >This is a nice pattern, but I don't see how it looks like a Restoration >era garment, Karen. These are Restoration era men's outfits (short >doublets and petticote breeches): Yeah, I just took a look, and it didn't look right to me..... >French - >http://costumes.org/history/17thcent/mensfashionplates/manpetticoat1665. >gif >English - >http://costumes.org/history/17thcent/mensfashionplates/habitofaman.jpg That's kinda what I had in mind..... Gotta find a good frock coat too.... Rima patiently waiting for someone else to do all the hard work on this one.... ;-D _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 14:22:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GIMUIO003413 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:22:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GILg76000438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GILVNu001093; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:21:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIKuNu000447 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:20:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.121.22.69] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A0D865C013A; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:18:00 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20031015.223128.-476307.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> References: <20031015.223128.-476307.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:06:51 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >http://costumes.org/history/17thcent/mensfashionplates/manpetticoat1665. >> gif >> English - >> http://costumes.org/history/17thcent/mensfashionplates/habitofaman.jpg > >I suppose it depends on what one considers the Restoration. Obviously >it's after Charles II comes to the throne, but he sat on the throne >during a profound shift in clothing styles. The 1660's still had the very >silly petticoat breeches and short doublet, but by the 1670's there was a >longer fashion which was attributed to the Turks and known as a >'justacorp' which is almost identical to the cassock, especially if you >look at the lines of the back seams. > >Karen Hmmmmmmmmm I guess you could put some giant gussets in the side seams for that wide-bottomed look they had..... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Thanks! Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 14:22:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GIMiIO003416 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:22:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIM276000467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GILpNu001358; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:21:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIKvNu000484 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:20:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.121.22.69] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A0D965C013A; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:18:01 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3F8E2194.7060808@lavoltapress.com> References: <1c2.104f262a.2cbf73d0@aol.com> <3F8E2194.7060808@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:09:05 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: YET etc., but this is it for me Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I suspect because ready-to-wear has conditioned them to think they >can walk into a store and buy some standard size that fits. People >don't expect a really good fit any more. > >Fran I dunno..... must be REALLY hard to fit those sloppy t-shirts and baggy shorts with the crotch at your knees..... What ever happened to looking like you got dressed in the morning???????????????????????????? - Oh! Sorry! Lost my mind. Please forgive me. Rima (harumph) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 14:23:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GIN8IO003419 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:23:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIML76000518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:22:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIMANu001630; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:22:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GILTNu001070 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:21:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id h9GILTGc016637 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:21:29 -0400 Message-Id: <200310161821.h9GILTGc016637@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:17:20 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Learning to sew From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO With my mother things were slightly different. She sewed for me and taught me to sew, and the next thing you know I was asking her to help me figure out how to make a split front hoop skirt for Barbie. She could not wait to be able to send me off to Home Ec classes once I was in junior high so I would be someone else's problem. :-) -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 14:28:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GISjIO003430 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:28:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIRu76001066 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:27:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIRgNu006698; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:27:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIRdNu006637 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:27:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f20.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.32]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id F2DA047FE74 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:27:37 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001101c39413$bcf5a310$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA9507@exchange.lynchburg.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pants question Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:31:38 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you make some pants for 18th century mens breeches, they are tied below the knees with a tape and buckle. When you meassures your pants lenght, you must bend your knee, and meassure from waist tojust below the knee. Pants is not supposed to go over the knee, just because you sit down, they must stay under the knee, so you have to add a little lenght for stretching. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Formo, Nathan" To: Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 7:14 PM Subject: [h-cost] Pants question > I just finished a pair of knee length slops and panes. I was sort of mixing > styles since the last pair of SandP's I had were just a little too short and > tight for me to move comfortably in. (I blame the pattern now.) > > Anyway I thought it would look nice to have the pants tie right above the > knee. I'm not sure if that's a period way of designing it or not. I'm sure > I've seen this used in Colonial clothing. Since I was making the pants > loose fitting I wanted to be able to tie up whatever slack I had above the > knee. > > My problem is this. If I tie the drawsting above the knee with the leg > straigt then it's fine unless I try to bend my knee. I can't bend my knee > deeply without the leg being very tight. But if I tie the string with my > knee bent then the opening is wide enough that it slips down over my knee > when the leg is straight. Now I actually got the pants length pretty much > correct so it doesn't go down that far. But it bugs me that it won't stay > above my knee. > > I'm left with several different possibilites. I'm just wondering which one > is correct. > > 1. I take a lot of ballet and dance classes so my knee muscles are built > up. On most people this would have worked? > 2. This happens to everyone and you are just supposed to keep it loose not > tight? > 3. The pants should have been cut so that they weren't long enough to go > over the knee. Not with an extra inch that's tied up? > 4. Pants weren't tied like that. Either I imagined it or what I thought > were practical ties were just decoration? > > Overall I'm happy with how these turned out. For my third time with a > sewing machine I'm getting a lot of praise from mundane friends about how > fancy they are. And they really aren't a problem. When tied loosely they > hang to about the center of my knee. So they are only about an inch or two > off of what I had been aiming for. I'm just curious as to wether I designed > them wrong of what? > > Thanks for any help. > > Bjorn Arnaldsson > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 14:47:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GIldIO003500 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:47:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIjg76002894 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:45:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIjVNu022458; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:45:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIjSNu022419 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:45:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.238]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:43:14 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:45:35 -0400 Message-ID: <000701c39415$affdb650$716453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rima wrote: <> If you can wait until next fall, Rima, the Restoration patterns are definitely in the works. You might even get an early (1680s) frock coat out of me. =) Say, would anyone like to here what patterns I have planned? I'd really appreciate your input. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 14:48:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GImpIO003512 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:48:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIgq76002522 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:42:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIgeNu020080; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:42:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIgbNu020041 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:42:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.238]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:40:23 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Baggy Clothes was: YET etc., but this is it for me Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:42:44 -0400 Message-ID: <000601c39415$4a1d15b0$716453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rima justly stated: <> Amen sister! I am firmly convinced that people don't have mirrors in their houses anymore... =( And I also think that that's a big reason we reenact. We get to dress nicely. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 14:50:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GIowIO003518 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:50:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GInU76003168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:49:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GInINu025717; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:49:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [66.136.30.169]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GInDNu025642 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:49:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from escom.antek [192.168.0.151] by web.antekhou.com (SMTPD32-8.00) id A828620388; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:49:12 -0500 Received: From PACws22 ([65.45.18.250]) by escom.antek (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 1066330151611; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:49:11 -0500 Message-ID: <006101c39415$cbe7dc60$0f64a8c0@algx> From: "Cyn Bucheger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200310161821.h9GILTGc016637@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Learning to sew Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:46:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > With my mother things were slightly different. She sewed for me and > taught me to sew, and the next thing you know I was asking her to help me > figure out how to make a split front hoop skirt for Barbie. She could not wait > to be able to send me off to Home Ec classes once I was in junior high so I > would be someone else's problem. :-) > > -Carol > I guess I was lucky, for after spending years of watching my mother sew for the family(Six boys, two girls) and sewing my dolls and doll cloths by hand, I was given enough of a scrap fabric to that I pieced together to make a blouse, while my mom was not at home (I was sixth grade about then I think) her comment on seeing it nearly finished was "good, you figured out you don't HAVE to follow the pattern exactly" and that was about it. It was a joint project to make something, selecting patterns, fabric, buttons as I went through high school and the only problems I remember were her issues with things not being put back where they belonged. Most of the time I just read over the pattern directions, figured out if there were short cuts I could make, and put it together. But I found learning to knit out a book much easier that from my mother. I've found static visuals with written instruction easiest for me to learn something new. When my daughter decided she wanted to sew, I helped her with fabric purchase, pattern selection, gave her the basic how to thread the machine, change/wind bobbins and so on. Then I walked away and told her to call if she need help. It was a rough tee-shirt and shorts set, but she did it herself as an early teen. Her next sewing project was ten years later when she decided she wanted family to dress up as the wizard of oz ensemble, bought patterns, fabric, etc. and sewed everything up. She's getting better. Cyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 14:55:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GItaIO003532 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:55:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIsj76003566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:54:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIsWNu029933; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:54:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIsTNu029893 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:54:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.121.22.69] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A8B5696013A; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:51:33 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000601c39415$4a1d15b0$716453d8@Kass> References: <000601c39415$4a1d15b0$716453d8@Kass> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:54:27 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: RE: [h-cost] Baggy Clothes was: YET etc., but this is it for me Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Rima justly stated: ><morning????????????????????????????>> > >Amen sister! I am firmly convinced that people don't have mirrors in >their houses anymore... =( > >And I also think that that's a big reason we reenact. We get to dress >nicely. > >Kass Just got this note from one of my customers for whom I am building a 15th century Italian gown for Halloween. Gorgeous red silk, black velvet collar, belt, cuffs, and hem.... mmmmmmmmmmmmm >I know the dress is going to be beautiful! I'm starting to realize >*why* you wear your creations everyday! These creations are so much >more beautiful than a dress from macy's. take care!!!!!!! It's things like these that make my day.... Now if the rest of the world would catch up and stop dressing like SLOBS! ;-D I woke up one morning almost 10 years ago and realized I had joined the Monoculture - GAP from head to toe! So I burned all my jeans, and now I wear whatever the heck I like from whatever time period I like - sometimes all mixed together! There are SO many choices! ;-D I figure everyone already knows I'm eccentric..... might as well dress the part..... Rima Death to the Monoculture! ;-D _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 14:56:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GIuRIO003538 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:56:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIt776003636 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:55:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIsuNu000349; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:54:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GIsUNu029914 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:54:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.121.22.69] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A8B6696013A; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:51:34 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000701c39415$affdb650$716453d8@Kass> References: <000701c39415$affdb650$716453d8@Kass> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:57:38 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: RE: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Rima wrote: ><would love to build some stuff from that era, and I don't know enough >about it..... too crazed with other things to do the research... ;-D >...patiently waiting for someone else to do all the hard work on this >one.... ;-D >> > >If you can wait until next fall, Rima, the Restoration patterns are >definitely in the works. You might even get an early (1680s) frock coat >out of me. =) Oooooooooooooooooo Can I beta test it for you????????? Can I, Can I????????????????? >Say, would anyone like to here what patterns I have planned? I'd really >appreciate your input. > >Kass uh, no, can't imagine anyone here would be interested..... ;-D Rima SEND IT ON! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 15:03:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GJ3KIO003559 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:03:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJ2X76004252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:02:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJ2KkV007275; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:02:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJ1hkV006634 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:01:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])h9GJ1d4h021530 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:01:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031016145832.00ba0588@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:01:45 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: RE: [h-cost] was Baggy Clothes In-Reply-To: References: <000601c39415$4a1d15b0$716453d8@Kass> <000601c39415$4a1d15b0$716453d8@Kass> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey Rima... I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one to wear my creations all together... Some of my favorite articles to wear to work are my 1550's Flemish jackets or my 1580's Spanish coats. I get lots of 'where did you get that?' Just goes to show that the 'average shopper' may not be as average as the buyers and designers think. Bridgette >I woke up one morning almost 10 years ago and realized I had joined the >Monoculture - GAP from head to toe! So I burned all my jeans, and now I >wear whatever the heck I like from whatever time period I like - sometimes >all mixed together! There are SO many choices! ;-D I figure everyone >already knows I'm eccentric..... might as well dress the part..... > >Rima >Death to the Monoculture! ;-D Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 15:09:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GJ9FIO003565 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:09:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJ8N76004830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:08:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJ8BkV012907; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:08:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJ84kV012805 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:08:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.238]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:05:48 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Baggy Clothes was: YET etc., but this is it for me Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:08:08 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01c39418$d8506820$716453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I woke up one morning almost 10 years ago and realized I had joined the Monoculture - GAP from head to toe! So I burned all my jeans, and now I wear whatever the heck I like from whatever time period I like - sometimes all mixed together! There are SO many choices! ;-D I figure everyone already knows I'm eccentric..... might as well dress the part..... >>>> Rima, you're my hero! I'm serious. Ever since I was laid-off from my IT job 18 months ago, I've been wearing jeans and T-shirts every day. And they're not even *my* jeans and T-shirts. They're my husband's! The only time I get to dress up is at reenactments (good thing I reenact a lot). Or once in a great while, my husband and I will dress formally to go out to dinner (long gown for me and tail coat for him), but that only happens about once a year. I guess the only ones who can solve the problem is ourselves... Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 15:10:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GJANIO003569 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:10:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJ9P76004941 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:09:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJ9DkV013670; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:09:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJ99kV013632 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:09:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.121.22.69] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AC269D00144; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:06:14 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20031016145832.00ba0588@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> References: <000601c39415$4a1d15b0$716453d8@Kass> <000601c39415$4a1d15b0$716453d8@Kass> <5.2.1.1.2.20031016145832.00ba0588@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:12:22 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: RE: [h-cost] was Baggy Clothes Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Mari! >Hey Rima... I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one to wear my >creations all together... *whew* I'm glad to hear I won't be lynched here for doing it! ;-D >Some of my favorite articles to wear to work are my 1550's Flemish >jackets or my 1580's Spanish coats. I get lots of 'where did you >get that?' >Just goes to show that the 'average shopper' may not be as average >as the buyers and designers think. Yep. I live in my "Sir Francis Drake's Undershirt", and sometimes sell 'em right off my back. I usually wear 'em over a linen shell, with drawstring pants tucked into my two-button roll-cuffed boots (custom by Native Soles - EXCELLENT JOB!) with an oval medieval riding cloak I found in some history book somewhere, and a hat that I saw on some painting of one of the Medicis.... Brand new in the clothing biz - haven't quit my dayjob yet! But I'm very encouraged. There ARE some people out there who have a sense of adventure! Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 15:11:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GJB1IO003576 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:11:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJAJ76005042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:10:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJA7kV014461; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:10:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21410.mail.yahoo.com (web21410.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9GJA4kV014410 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:10:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031016191004.84750.qmail@web21410.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.14.119] by web21410.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:10:04 PDT Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:10:04 -0700 (PDT) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: RE: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000701c39415$affdb650$716453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Kass McGann > Say, would anyone like to here what patterns I have > planned? I'd really > appreciate your input. > Kass, can't you *hear* the resounding YES offline? *grin* I'd love to hear what patterns you've got planned. Angharad (wolfcat) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 15:11:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GJBuIO003580 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:11:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJB776005112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:11:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJAtkV015116; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:10:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJApkV015068 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:10:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.121.22.69] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AC8C72C014E; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:07:56 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000a01c39418$d8506820$716453d8@Kass> References: <000a01c39418$d8506820$716453d8@Kass> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:14:03 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: RE: [h-cost] Baggy Clothes was: YET etc., but this is it for me Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I woke up one morning almost 10 years ago and realized I had joined >the Monoculture - GAP from head to toe! So I burned all my jeans, >and now I wear whatever the heck I like from whatever time period I >like - sometimes all mixed together! There are SO many choices! >;-D I figure everyone already knows I'm eccentric..... might as >well dress the part..... >>>>> >Rima, you're my hero! I'm serious. aw, *shucks* >Ever since I was laid-off from my >IT job 18 months ago, I've been wearing jeans and T-shirts every day. >And they're not even *my* jeans and T-shirts. They're my husband's! > >The only time I get to dress up is at reenactments (good thing I reenact >a lot). Or once in a great while, my husband and I will dress formally >to go out to dinner (long gown for me and tail coat for him), but that >only happens about once a year. > >I guess the only ones who can solve the problem is ourselves... > >Kass Just think of it this way - now that you don't have to be an IT drone, you can WEAR ANYTHING YOU WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cast off those jeans and tees! I know you can do it! ;-D Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 15:15:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GJFYIO003585 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:15:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJEX76005424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:14:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJEMkV018143; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:14:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJEJkV018104 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:14:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])h9GJEG4h001026 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:14:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031016151144.00ba03f8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:14:23 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: RE: [h-cost] was Baggy Clothes In-Reply-To: References: < <5.2.1.1.2.20031016145832.00ba0588@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> <000601c39415$4a1d15b0$716453d8@Kass> <000601c39415$4a1d15b0$716453d8@Kass> <5.2.1.1.2.20031016145832.00ba0588@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey All... Rima's got a good point... Ah yes - a sense of adventure! and individual style, have we (american/international masses) lost this? Or am I romanticizing something that never really was there? Bridgette >Brand new in the clothing biz - haven't quit my dayjob yet! But I'm very >encouraged. There ARE some people out there who have a sense of adventure! > >Rima Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 15:15:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GJFnIO003588 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:15:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJF776005479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:15:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJEtkV018591; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:14:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from exchange.lynchburg.edu ([161.115.184.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJEqkV018543 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:14:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by exchange.lynchburg.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <40X2ZNHZ>; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:14:52 -0400 Message-ID: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA9508@exchange.lynchburg.edu> From: "Formo, Nathan" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:14:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [h-cost] Pants question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So my mistake was that they don't tie ABOVE the knee, they tie BELOW. That's what I get for trusting my memory instead of picking up a book at looking at the examples. Still I think they turned out well. Since I'm doing all of this by guess work and logic leaps it's probably lucky they come out right at all. Still learning.... Bjorn Arnaldsson > > If you make some pants for 18th century mens breeches, they > are tied below > the knees with a tape and buckle. > When you meassures your pants lenght, you must bend your > knee, and meassure > from waist tojust below the knee. Pants is not supposed to go > over the knee, > just because you sit down, they must stay under the knee, so > you have to add > a little lenght for stretching. > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 15:18:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GJI4IO003592 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:18:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJHH76005639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:17:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJH4kV020509; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJGpkV020226 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:16:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMV00DJL6W1AF@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:17:44 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list In-reply-to: <000701c39415$affdb650$716453d8@Kass> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031016121606.00b08d38@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:45 PM 10/16/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Say, would anyone like to here what patterns I have planned? I'd really >appreciate your input. Of course!! I already plan on getting your Irish gown to try it out. Been wanting to remake the gown for some time, and would love to see how you dealt with some of the issues I had problems with. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 15:21:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GJLDIO003600 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:21:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJKI76005870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:20:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJK6kV023008; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:20:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJK1kV022943 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:20:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.238]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:17:47 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:20:08 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c3941a$83c5ba60$716453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rima squealed: <> I'll certainly put you on my list. Contact me privately, k? >Say, would anyone like to here what patterns I have planned? I'd really >appreciate your input. > >Kass uh, no, can't imagine anyone here would be interested..... ;-D >>>> These are the general periods I plan to cover. Any suggestions would be most appreciated. Mid-15th century English, French, and Burgundian 16th & 17th century Irish Landsknecht 1600-20s (Late Elizabethan/Jacobean) 1630s (30 Years War/Cavalier) 1640s (English Civil War) 1660s (Restoration) 1680s-1710 (Early American Colonial/Early Georgian) and Medieval Japanese =) I'm also thinking of doing some specific sub-groups of the above; for example, German 16th century, Swedish 17th century or Scot-Irish-American 18th century. Thoughts? Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 15:38:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GJcWIO003627 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:38:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJak76007280 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:36:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJaSkV007009; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:36:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJaBkV006797 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:36:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.238]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:33:57 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] was Baggy Clothes Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:36:17 -0400 Message-ID: <001401c3941c$c5aadc10$716453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20031016151144.00ba03f8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Brigette asked: <> No, I'm sure we still have it. On a medieval armouring list, a guy asked me if I could recommend an easy 18th century frock coat pattern because he wanted to make one as his winter jacket this year. An *armourer* wanted this! And one of my friends wears her 18th century jackets to work a lot. They're just nice-looking. Remember how Folkwear almost went out of business a few years ago, and we crazies bought up all the patterns before they went out of print? I think that's a testament to the fact that we *do* want to dress differently. We just don't always find the time to make up those garments we're planning. I think that we've just become lazy in our daily lives. We don't have to dress up for work or dinner or even Church anymore. So we get lazy. And jeans and T-shirts are easy to throw in the washer and dryer and you never have to iron them. But it doesn't mean we *want* to wear them as much as we do. We just can. It's easy. So we do. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 15:41:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GJfbIO003666 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:41:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJeX76007557 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:40:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJeOkV010277; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:40:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJbckV008066 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:37:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.238]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:35:24 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:37:44 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c3941c$f98abc80$716453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031016121606.00b08d38@64.87.54.245> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko wrote: <> And I look forward to hearing what you think of the pattern, Kimiko. I'm going to be starting an email list for feedback and discussion soon. As soon as I get the subscription information, I'll share it with this list. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 16:20:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GKKrIO003771 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:20:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GKIp76011048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:18:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GKIYUX014436; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:18:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GKHYUX013547 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:17:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 32D151B3697 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:17:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <036701c39422$84bcf200$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000a01c39418$d8506820$716453d8@Kass> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Baggy Clothes was: YET etc., but this is it for me Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:17:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >Ever since I was laid-off from my > >IT job 18 months ago, I've been wearing jeans and T-shirts every day. > >And they're not even *my* jeans and T-shirts. They're my husband's! > > I freely admit to wearing my husband's tees on a regular basis, but I stick to my own jeans. OTOH, as he is ten inches taller than I, and considerably larger in the waist, if I wore his, I'd be one of those flakes with the crotch at my knees! And I do limit myself to no more than one pair of sweat pants at a time, and they are strictly for sleeping. And my favorite nightgown is a t-tunic made out of coffee-cup print flannel. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 16:40:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GKeFIO003848 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:40:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GKdH76013028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:39:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GKdAUX003619; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:39:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GKd1UX003464 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:39:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.197]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:36:45 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Baggy Clothes was: YET etc., but this is it for me Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:39:06 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01c39425$8c4c0940$716453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <036701c39422$84bcf200$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dianne wrote: <> Unfortunately, with this layoff, I gained a few pounds and my jeans are too snug to lounge in (of course I won't buy new ones because I *will* lose the weight!) My husband and I have the same inseam length, so it works rather well. His jeans are too big on me in the waist and that makes me feel better right now than wearing too tight clothing. <> I've never cared for sweats, except for sleeping. Then they're comfy. The rest of the time, I don't like them. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 18:21:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GMLKIO004092 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:21:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMKT76022299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:20:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMKEI2003573; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:20:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMKBI2003523 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:20:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.121.22.69] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A8EBA0500E0; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:17:15 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001b01c39425$8c4c0940$716453d8@Kass> References: <001b01c39425$8c4c0940$716453d8@Kass> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:23:22 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] jeans.... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kass says: >Dianne wrote: ><stick to my own jeans. OTOH, as he is ten inches taller than I, and >considerably larger in the waist, if I wore his, I'd be one of those >flakes with the crotch at my knees!>> > >Unfortunately, with this layoff, I gained a few pounds and my jeans are >too snug to lounge in (of course I won't buy new ones because I *will* >lose the weight!) Two things: http://www.weightwatchers.com http://www.landsend.com/cd/fp/prod/0,,1_2_1930_168_61674_42966_5:view=59,00.html?sid=4627084536203156040 I'm in a performing group which requires me to (a) be very slim for dancing -and so the guys can lift me and throw me around (b) wear black jeans from time to time. I kinda let myself go a while ago, and had trouble taking off weight. But I dropped 20 lbs easily with the online program. And in the meantime, I found the ONLY jeans in the universe that fit me: Lands End Custom Online. check it out. Nothing short of miraculous. And for a whopping $54! Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 18:22:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GMMNIO004096 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:22:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMLU76022396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:21:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMLUI2004592; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:21:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMK9I2003508 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:20:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.121.22.69] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A8E9A0500E0; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:17:13 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001401c3941c$c5aadc10$716453d8@Kass> References: <001401c3941c$c5aadc10$716453d8@Kass> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:18:03 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: RE: [h-cost] was Baggy Clothes Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kass asks: >Remember how Folkwear almost went out of business a few years ago, and >we crazies bought up all the patterns before they went out of print? Guilty as charged. >I think that we've just become lazy in our daily lives. We don't have >to dress up for work or dinner or even Church anymore. So we get lazy. >And jeans and T-shirts are easy to throw in the washer and dryer and you >never have to iron them. yep. that too. Linen is my fave fabric, but I confess I have a pile of ironing I haven't done in a week.... wearing my rumpled version today... ;-D Rima writing to you guys instead of working today... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 18:23:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GMMxIO004100 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:23:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMMI76022460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:22:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMMII2005123; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:22:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav66.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMMEI2005023 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:22:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:22:08 -0700 Received: from 66.131.9.61 by bay9-dav66.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:22:08 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.131.9.61] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031016135854.A73732-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Learning to sew was: Re: YET More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:23:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Oct 2003 22:22:08.0914 (UTC) FILETIME=[F01C5F20:01C39433] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > Please don't think I'm being defensive here. My relationship with my > > > daughter is fine except when I try to teach her anything - cooking, > > > crochet, embroidery, sewing. They want to learn by within an hour we > > > have to separate. I'm sure it's as much my teaching style as it is my > > > daughter's independence and stubbornness. We get along great except > > > for that. And she wants to sew and I want to teach her, but it just > > > doesn't work. I want to get her into a basic sewing class and then > > > answer her questions rather than try to sew something with her. > > > LynnD Oh don't worry, I do understand. My bf wanted to teach me now to drive manual (I hope that's the way it's told in English). No way! We'd just start arguing, I'm sure of it... He doesn't believe me, but I know that's what would happen. Some people are like that. I wouldn't mind if it was my mom or dad, or most of my friends, but there are people I know I wouldn't be able to learn from. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 18:26:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GMQgIO004109 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:26:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMQ076022712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMPwI2008124; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:25:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav43.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMPsI2007988 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:25:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:25:49 -0700 Received: from 66.131.9.61 by bay9-dav43.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:25:48 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.131.9.61] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000701c39415$affdb650$716453d8@Kass> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:27:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Oct 2003 22:25:49.0111 (UTC) FILETIME=[735BC470:01C39434] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Say, would anyone like to here what patterns I have planned? I'd really > appreciate your input. Of COURSE! Unless they're the ones on your website, in which case I already know about them ;-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 18:34:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GMYSIO004153 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:34:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMXh76023464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:33:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMXfI2014143; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:33:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt7.ihug.co.nz (grunt7.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMXaI2014043 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:33:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p4-max20.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.118.161.68] by grunt7.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AAGgX-0002h6-00; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:33:34 +1300 Message-ID: <004a01c39435$83d07480$44a176cb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F8E6149.22286.17C0BC75@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses, was V&A 'Gothic: Art forEngland 1400-1547' exhibition Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:33:24 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I definitely wear a coif under my Lettice cap. In some of the > paintings you can see a little band like edge at the upper edge > peaking out of the smaller Lettice caps and it makes it easier for > the Lettice cap to sit properly if it has a coif beneath it. I > suspect it would do the same for the Gable. You have a Lettice cap? Sorry, I snipped a lot of your post as this is exciting as I've only seen the sketch and the painting by holbein, not anything anyone has made;) Do you have a photo of it? I want to make one of these, I like the simple but slightly odd lines of it. Odd in terms of what one is used to in millinary which is to usually see curves;) And that cap and coif combination that looks like a large beret on a gable coif. > However, in all the pictures I've ever found of gabled hoods, there > is no portion of coif even partially visible. (But it could be > completely tucked in.) (And now I can refer back to comemnts about the coifs.) I wasn't thinking the Anne Bolyen cap was the same, it was just how close to the head it was.. as in the hair being kept fairly small;) I do think it would be present, simply fot the fact of keeping hair oils away from the hat/hood. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 18:46:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GMkkIO004190 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:46:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMjw76024503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:45:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMjsI2006767; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:45:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt7.ihug.co.nz (grunt7.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMjoI2006703 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:45:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p4-max20.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.118.161.68] by grunt7.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AAGsO-0001j9-00; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:45:49 +1300 Message-ID: <00b201c39437$3cd797a0$44a176cb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <77A8F43F.67B275F4.0BD9917F@aol.com> Subject: Mary of Hungary pattern Re: [h-cost] Looking for a Book Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:45:45 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > There is a book that covers the building of the Maria of Hungary dress, does anyone know which book this is? Can you send me the info? There is a book with a simgle diagram of the dress. It differs to the pattern diagram on the web is a few ways. They have the seams that run the length of the skirt front to back for joining the fabrcis, but they also have a seam across the skirt, side hem to waist to side hem. The skirt is also represented as circle with the waist right in the centre, not towards the front to acheive the train. The sleeves are also pieced differently. There is piecing at the armscye, and the seam goes up the back rather than the inside. I'm suspecting the sleeve is correct in the book, and the skirt is correct in the pattern on Cynthia's site. That's just a guess, as the dress has a slight train and I know period practice was to generally have the sleeve seam go up the back. Still, as I haven't seen the dress (I plan on it though) I can't say for sure. The dress, now that I'm getting my head around her name is by Naomi Tarrant, Development of Costume: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0415080193?v=glance Some nice interior views of garments from across the ages. I love seeing the inside of costume. Any other book I'm not aware of except the booklet from the Hungarian museum.. or some other very old book mentioned on Cynthia's site. http://www.virtue.to/guest_authors/hungarian.html michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 18:49:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GMnDIO004198 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:49:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMmG76024676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:48:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMmFI2010869; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:48:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMm9I2010447 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:48:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p4-max20.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.118.161.68] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AAGuc-0002x1-00; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:48:07 +1300 Message-ID: <00b801c39437$8fe111b0$44a176cb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031016125620.K73732-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Crepe Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:48:04 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I've also seen reference to "curled lawn" in QE's wardrobe accounts, which > (I'm assuming) would have a texture similar to curled cypress... > Drea > > She puts in several source from inventories and other legal > > manuscrips, as well as from literature. In the foot note she writes > > that "curled cypress" indicated that it was the crepe. Uses noted in > > these are for things like headwear, partlets, foresleeves, neckware > > and laces. No mention of hose. Hah! I've been folowing this part of the thread with interest as I was told crepe was a 19thC invention. OK, so perhaps it doesn't validate my use of wool crepe for a kirtle;) (cheapest wool at the time I bought it, however I've since found cheaper.. sigh) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 18:50:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GMoqIO004201 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:50:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMoE76024875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:50:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GMoCI2013194; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:50:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20204.mail.yahoo.com (web20204.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9GMo7I2013113 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:50:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031016225006.88203.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.179] by web20204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:50:06 EST Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:50:06 +1000 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200310161647.h9GGkBGN005766@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Message: 13 > Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:35:17 -0700 > From: kat@grendal.rain.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings > > This is confusing to me, because curled cypress has been equated with > > crepe, and crepe is definitely not crisp. If you could give me a > > direct quote about curled cypress it would be much appreciated. > > I think it depends on the crepe. Crepe refers to the process of > overtwisting the thread before it is used in weaving. It tends to > give a texture to the surface of the fabric, but the hand of the > fabric depends on the actual fibres used to make it. A crepe made of > silk and linen would feel different (and I believe be > stiffer/crisper) than a wool crepe or polyester crepe (which are more > like what we associate with the word "crepe.") Granted, silk and linen crepe would feel different, but were silk and linen mixed and woven into a curled cypress/crepe fabric in period? I can't quite see how curled cypress, which was made of silk, can be considered "crisp" by any means. Mind you, I do remember reading something about there being another form of cypress, which wasn't "currelled" or curled - that may have been crisp, but then that wouldn't equate to our "crepe", which is what I'm asking about. > For reference: > > M.Channing Linthicum, _Costume in the Drama of Shakespeare and his > Contemporaries_ Oxford, 1936 (too old for an ISBN). Reference page > 118-9. > > She puts in several source from inventories and other legal > manuscrips, as well as from literature. In the foot note she writes > that "curled cypress" indicated that it was the crepe. Uses noted in > these are for things like headwear, partlets, foresleeves, neckware > and laces. No mention of hose. Thanks Kat, got that. I'm over the hose. At least it seems I can be reasonably safe using semi-sheer silk crepe for other things. :) Bella The Realm of Venus http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 19:10:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GNAFIO004246 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:10:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GN9X76026067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:09:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GN9UUE026107; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:09:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GN9RUE026072 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:09:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p4-max20.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.118.161.68] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AAHFE-0001zH-00; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:09:24 +1300 Message-ID: <00e001c3943a$8932aec0$44a176cb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F8AC61A.17230.9AA8E05@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume books I've just bought, and why costuming istaking a back seat now:( Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:09:21 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Anne of Cleves, by Mary Saalar (I think.) Nice list in there of what > > she got after the divorce/annullment mentions her wearing English > > costume soonish after arriving in England. > > Cool! Do you have an ISBN on this one. (I've seen stuff about both > she and Caterine of Aragon changing from their native clothes to > those of England when they came to England, but I've never seen the > actual list! Much more valuable to the things I like to do!) Sorry! I missed this, well I didn't I kept it to reply to;) I accidentally left a big part of my paragraph out of the above. There were separate things. There is mention of her wearing local dress, as well as lists of what she was given. They are different things. No idea how I lost a big chunk of text. Probably accidentally highlighted something and deleted it without noticing. If you want the ISBN still I'll hunt the book from the recesses that is my room for you. > Yep. Definitely. However, studies done on this subject have shown > that women in the past generally far fewer periods than modern women > and that they were much lighter and shorter than what is currently > considered normal for modern women. Has something to do with > nutrition, genetics, pregnancy numbers, and other health related > factors that contribute to such things. To the point of practically not exsisting? I'm going to see if I can find some more information. Someone mentioned how much more active women were than now, which I don't think is strictly true. Working class is probably about the same, working coming home to do more intense household duties. Of course we do know that women who are underweight have this kind of issue. Must find old medical texts. Probably some in the medical library at Uni... > > So sewing is extremely painful, and actually detrimental to my wrists. > > I have no idea how much sewing I'm capable of doing, but recently I've > > been able to sew about a seam a day. With a day or two between. > > Ouch! Not a good thing for any of us needleworkers (although it tends > to end up being a problem for sooooo many of us.) RA? Wrist damage yes, but I've got an autoimmune disease. Unfortunately it affects every joint from my jaw to my toes when I have a particularly nasty flare. Luckily the therapy I'm on has held that off for the last year. Scarily enough there is even a mortality rate associated with it. Still. No sign of the problems that lead to that, and it does seem to have only damaged my wrists so far. And some osteopenia, but that's pretty good all things considered:) I'm not giving up 'til it get to the point where I have to. There is always the research side of costuming I suppose.... michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 19:58:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GNw7IO004328 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:58:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GNv876029059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:57:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GNv4Mx025716; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:57:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GNv1Mx025692 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMV000BRJPPC6@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:53:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:54:44 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses, was V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition In-reply-to: <001a01c393d7$e8bfee10$64d2adcb@michaela> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031016165318.029d6e00@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <3F8C4A38.13641.F96A180@localhost> <3F8CA3FD.85D61490@in-tch.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20031014184350.02f8c708@64.87.54.245> <3F8C4A38.13641.F96A180@localhost> <4.3.1.2.20031016002810.0560f230@mail.frys.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:23 AM 10/17/2003 +1300, you wrote: >PS, read both pages and this one: >http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/englishhood.html Thanks, Michaela, I am printing this one out to compare with the other two. Wow, so many ways of making this one hood. Thanks! I can't wait to work on this hood. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 20:22:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H0M4IO004376 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:22:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H0LJ76000499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:21:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H0L1Mx008935; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H0KxMx008897 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:20:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-67.28.47.244.dial1.chicago1.level3.net ([67.28.47.244] helo=earthlink.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AAIMT-0003OZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:20:58 -0700 Message-ID: <3F8F352B.4B80CEF3@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:17:47 -0500 From: Ms Berard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume books I've just bought, and why costumingistaking a back seat now:( References: <3F8AC61A.17230.9AA8E05@localhost> <00e001c3943a$8932aec0$44a176cb@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If the percentage of a woman's body fat goes too low she will stop having her cycle. Today it is usually seen with woman who are heavily into sports. But I would think that in the past it would occur from lack of food. Also I'm sure that the period just doesn't suddenly stop when you get to the magic number (whatever that % is) but as you get closer the cycle would diminish. Just my 2 cents worth. Onaree michaela wrote: > > > > Yep. Definitely. However, studies done on this subject have shown > > that women in the past generally far fewer periods than modern women > > and that they were much lighter and shorter than what is currently > > considered normal for modern women. Has something to do with > > nutrition, genetics, pregnancy numbers, and other health related > > factors that contribute to such things. > > To the point of practically not exsisting? I'm going to see if I can find > some more information. Someone mentioned how much more active women were > than now, which I don't think is strictly true. Working class is probably > about the same, working coming home to do more intense household duties. > > Of course we do know that women who are underweight have this kind of issue. > Must find old medical texts. Probably some in the medical library at Uni... > > michaela > http://costumes.glittersweet.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Proud list mom of Irish Crochet Lovers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Irish_Crochet_Lovers/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 20:28:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H0S9IO004394 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:28:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H0RS76000799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:27:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H0RQMx012217; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:27:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H0ROMx012197 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:27:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-238-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.238.227]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9H0RLaY022454 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:27:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031016171542.05642e80@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:16:30 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses, was V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031016165318.029d6e00@64.87.54.245> References: <001a01c393d7$e8bfee10$64d2adcb@michaela> <3F8C4A38.13641.F96A180@localhost> <3F8CA3FD.85D61490@in-tch.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20031014184350.02f8c708@64.87.54.245> <3F8C4A38.13641.F96A180@localhost> <4.3.1.2.20031016002810.0560f230@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Thanks, Michaela, I am printing this one out to compare with the other >two. Wow, so many ways of making this one hood. I think we should all post our Gable pictures on the same page, somewhere, so we can see them next to each other. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 20:54:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H0sAIO004444 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:54:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H0rT76002544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:53:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H0rSMx025755; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:53:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H0rON0025709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:53:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9H0rC5H004404 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:53:25 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9H0rA3l004402 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:53:10 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Learning to sew was: Re: YET More on the Whole Big 3 Pattern Thing Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:53:10 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20031016135854.A73732-100000@shell.siscom.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310162053.10343.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 16 October 2003 06:23 pm, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > > > Please don't think I'm being defensive here. My relationship with my > > > > daughter is fine except when I try to teach her anything - cooking, > > > > crochet, embroidery, sewing. They want to learn by within an hour we > > > > have to separate. I'm sure it's as much my teaching style as it is my > > > > daughter's independence and stubbornness. We get along great except > > > > for that. And she wants to sew and I want to teach her, but it just > > > > doesn't work. I want to get her into a basic sewing class and then > > > > answer her questions rather than try to sew something with her. > > > > LynnD > > Oh don't worry, I do understand. My bf wanted to teach me now to drive > manual (I hope that's the way it's told in English). It conveys the meaning you want, i.e., teach you how to drive a car with a manual transmission. Colloquially, however, we Americans would say "teach you how to drive stick" (i.e., stick shift). > No way! We'd just > start arguing, I'm sure of it... He doesn't believe me, but I know that's > what would happen. Some people are like that. I wouldn't mind if it was my > mom or dad, or most of my friends, but there are people I know I wouldn't > be able to learn from. My dad *did* try to teach me how to drive a car with manual transmission...the results were agonizing. You're better off not having him teach you, in my opinion. -- Cathy Raymond "Adult life seems to be a cross between a zen koan and a cattle stampede." --Ozy and Millie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 22:08:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H28EIO004630 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:08:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H27D76006374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:07:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H27AcX002970; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:07:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H275cX002927 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:07:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip188.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.188]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED61B6A9A9 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:02:03 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:07:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3F8EEC6D.2287.19E04134@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <004a01c39435$83d07480$44a176cb@michaela> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Subject: [h-cost] Lettice caps, was: Re: Tudor gable headdresses, X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > You have a Lettice cap? Sorry, I snipped a lot of your post as this is > exciting as I've only seen the sketch and the painting by holbein, not > anything anyone has made;) Do you have a photo of it? I made it myself years ago (somewhere around 14-15 years ago) and still have the pattern from doing so. However, I don't have any pictures of it. I'm not fond of having my picture taken. It's basically two shaped pieces which are mirrored on the other side. I do the "Portrait of a woman with a squirrel and a starling" style (as opposed to the smaller one.) I like it because it keeps my ears warm on cold tourney mornings/evenings. Some people refer to it as my "ugly" hat because of a comment from someone who should have known better. ("Where did she ever get the idea for her ugly hats?") The ones in period may have had more pieces. There is one colored one I've found in pictures: on Mary I's maid/fool in the background of the "family portrait" with H8, Mary, Elizabeth and E6 as the main focus (but a maid is off to one side looking through a doorway.) The maid's has stripes of brown and white fur although otherwise it's similar to the"PoaWwaSaaS" and the Holbein sketch labeled "Mother Jak.". This might give you a better idea than I had 14-15 years ago about the actual construction. > I want to make one of these, I like the simple but slightly odd lines > of it. Odd in terms of what one is used to in millinary which is to > usually see curves;) Yes. The interesting thing is whether or not it had any stiffening. When discussed in the period (such as Lisle's daughters writing home as seen in The Lisle Letters [unabridged]) they seem definitely to be an at home comfortable hat. (And the daughter ordered enough for an army. Either they wore out really fast which I doubt or she was going to give them as gifts to friends.) This lead me to believe that they would not have any wire stiffening at the edge, only the body produced by the fur (I used rex rabbit since I don't have access to any "lettice fur") and an "interlining" of felt, with a plain lining fabric. (I used cotton but now I'd use linen.) However, I had been chastised by the woman I was then apprenticed to. She felt that it had to have had at least some stiffening around the face. After years of wearing it, I think that she may be correct since it doesn't hug my face like the ones in the portraits do. It might need just a little coming down the front from the tip of that "gable" to just below the cheek toward the back. Although when it was newer it seemed to hug my cheeks even without that. > And that cap and coif combination that looks like a large beret on a > gable coif. A friend of mine did this one. It seems very German to me. > (And now I can refer back to comemnts about the coifs.) I wasn't > thinking the Anne Bolyen cap was the same, it was just how close to > the head it was.. as in the hair being kept fairly small;) I do think > it would be present, simply fot the fact of keeping hair oils away > from the hat/hood. I would heartily agree, for that reason and for ease of arranging it. However, the turban is right against the skin of the face, which would get oily even if you were wearing a coif. It still could be that the hair was braided, pinned to the head and then the turban wrapped around the head before the rest of the hat put on. It's things like this which make me wish for a time travel machine! Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 22:19:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H2JNIO004648 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:19:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H2Ia76006888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:18:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H2IZcX008601; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:18:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H2IYcX008584 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:18:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip188.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.188]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACAED6AD31 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:18:32 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:19:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume books I've just bought, and why costuming istaking a back seat now:( Message-ID: <3F8EEF25.433.19EADEAC@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00e001c3943a$8932aec0$44a176cb@michaela> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > Anne of Cleves, by Mary Saalar (I think.) Nice list in there of > > > what she got after the divorce/annullment mentions her wearing > > > English costume soonish after arriving in England. > If you want the ISBN still I'll hunt the book from the recesses that > is my room for you. It'd be much appreciated! Thanks in advance! > > Yep. Definitely. However, studies done on this subject have shown > > that women in the past generally far fewer periods than modern women > > and that they were much lighter and shorter than what is currently > > considered normal for modern women. Has something to do with > > nutrition, genetics, pregnancy numbers, and other health related > > factors that contribute to such things. > > To the point of practically not exsisting? I'm going to see if I can > find some more information. Someone mentioned how much more active > women were than now, which I don't think is strictly true. Working > class is probably about the same, working coming home to do more > intense household duties. If you have baby after baby without much break in between, and you have poor nutrition besides, even a normally active woman would have far fewer periods. Most of the time when we see this it is a girl who has been very active in sports. But we also see it in girls who are anorexic. Besides which, something I've noticed over the past 20 years of pediatric practice is that the periods are starting earlier (like at age 9-10 as opposed to 12-13) and that the girls are having much heavier and longer periods. It may have something to do with the hormonally enhanced foods we've been eating. But it's sufficient enough that many of the endocrinology guidelines for what is normal in terms of puberty age (especially menarche) is changing just like we're seeing changes in height/weight in kids. (And just like we're seeing more Type 2 Diabetes in kids. I had been taught in medical school that it doesn't happen in childhood but a *lot* of information has been coming out about that recently.) > > > So sewing is extremely painful, and actually detrimental to my > > > wrists. I have no idea how much sewing I'm capable of doing, but > > > recently I've been able to sew about a seam a day. With a day or > > > two between. > > > > Ouch! Not a good thing for any of us needleworkers (although it > > tends to end up being a problem for sooooo many of us.) > > RA? Wrist damage yes, but I've got an autoimmune disease. > Unfortunately it affects every joint from my jaw to my toes when I > have a particularly nasty flare. Luckily the therapy I'm on has held > that off for the last year. Definitely bad news. However, I seem to know a lot of women needleworkers who have RA (such as Arlys who sometimes posts to this list.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 22:36:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H2aLIO004701 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:36:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H2Ze76008005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:35:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H2ZccX017035; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:35:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H2ZacX016978 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:35:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (bgp380694bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.16.142]) by webwarren.com (8.12.9/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9H2ZQZU000564 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:35:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031016134651.031a70e8@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:53:45 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell In-Reply-To: <200310160330.h9G3UM9Q026386@net.indra.com> References: <200310160330.h9G3UM9Q026386@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: RE: Learning to sew X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:30 PM 10/15/2003, Kass responded to Audrey: >I don't know what your relationship with your daughters is, but I learned >to sew with my mom. I learned a lot of things by osmosis, and then she had >me sew straight seams. And then for a couple of months I called for help >when I needed it. I learned sitting on my grandfather's lap with sewing cards, and graduated to a needle when I was five and Mom convinced Dad to get her a sewing machine. Then my sister and I always got to pick out patterns for us and for our dolls, though Grandpa would usually bring the fabric home from work (he worked in a dress factory). The scraps became doll clothes, or we'd wrap ourselves in them and call them "costumes"... >But we parted company a couple of years ago when I decided that I didn't >need a pattern to make a T-tunic :-) > >>>> >--- >And we "parted company" too, Audrey. Mum doesn't understand why you can't >use a dart or the kind of corset boning you can sew over. =) My mom and I started getting into fights when I tried to explain to her that she needed to alter her patterns because they weren't fitting her properly... She does her own thing now, I do mine, and most of the time the only time we discuss it is when her machine is "acting up" and I need to figure out why it's not behaving the way it should. (The last time it was because the needle hadn't been inserted all the way!) Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 22:36:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H2agIO004704 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:36:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H2a176008036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H2a0cX017293; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:36:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H2ZacX016979 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:35:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (bgp380694bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.16.142]) by webwarren.com (8.12.9/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9H2ZQZV000564 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:35:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031016150604.0327e1a0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:53:34 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Contacting Simplicity... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was available for the chat today; transcripts will be available on the Simplicity site shortly. Amazingly, there was little directed particularly at Andrea Schewe, and more directed at Abbie regarding pattern sizing and availability; also fitting and alterations. Some of the comments we've made on this list appear to already be in the plans for next year: discussing signature-costume lines, enhancing the Web site with info that can't fit on/into the pattern envelope, and such. Abbie asked what sorts of measurements we would like to see added to patterns. Suggestions included marking the bust points; noting neck size, high bust, sleeve length (both shoulder-to-wrist and elbow point), shoulder-to-shoulder width, center-front-waist length and front-waist, shoulder-to-waist length over the bust point, marking back-waist, splitting bust and hip measurements into separate front and back measurements, finished upper arm circumference, and finished thigh circumference. It looks like a men's Cavalier costume is one of the next major costume patterns in the works; I think it's supposed to be available in the spring catalog. That's about all I can recall offhand. The transcript will be available from this page: We can contact Abbie and Betsy by writing to info@simplicity.com and leaving our e-mail addresses. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 22:50:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H2ofIO004739 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:50:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H2nr76008857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:49:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H2npcX024458; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:49:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H2nlcX024401 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:49:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip188.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.188]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ABE46FBD2 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:49:45 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:50:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Message-ID: <3F8EF671.7474.1A076076@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20031016225006.88203.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200310161647.h9GGkBGN005766@net.indra.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I think it depends on the crepe. Crepe refers to the process of > > overtwisting the thread before it is used in weaving. It tends to > > give a texture to the surface of the fabric, but the hand of the > > fabric depends on the actual fibres used to make it. A crepe made of > > silk and linen would feel different (and I believe be > > stiffer/crisper) than a wool crepe or polyester crepe (which are > > more like what we associate with the word "crepe.") > Granted, silk and linen crepe would feel different, but were silk and > linen mixed and woven into a curled cypress/crepe fabric in period? I > can't quite see how curled cypress, which was made of silk, can be > considered "crisp" by any means. Mind you, I do remember reading > something about there being another form of cypress, which wasn't > "currelled" or curled - that may have been crisp, but then that > wouldn't equate to our "crepe", which is what I'm asking about. What evidently made Cypress different from other silk fabrics is that it was mixed with the silk. The other form of cypress wasn't creped/crippens/etc but plain. It referred to the way the thread was overtwisted. I agree that a fabric which was solely silk would be less crisp than one which was intermixed with linen. Maybe that's why they started doing it in the first place: to get a crisper silk. > > For reference: > > > > M.Channing Linthicum, _Costume in the Drama of Shakespeare and his > > Contemporaries_ Oxford, 1936 (too old for an ISBN). Reference page > > 118-9. > Thanks Kat, got that. I'm over the hose. At least it seems I can be > reasonably safe using semi-sheer silk crepe for other things. :) But do look up the Linthicum. There is a wealth of information in that book which its age and title do not convey. I absolutely love all the snippets from the PRO manuscripts. It makes me dream of getting hold of them myself. ;) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 23:03:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H33MIO004764 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:03:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H32f76009611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:02:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H32dnQ000859; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:02:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H32anQ000833 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:02:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-35-144.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.35.144])h9H32X8h001088 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:02:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031016195417.05a6abe0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:02:27 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lettice caps, was: Re: Tudor gable headdresses, In-Reply-To: <3F8EEC6D.2287.19E04134@localhost> References: <004a01c39435$83d07480$44a176cb@michaela> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > You have a Lettice cap? Sorry, I snipped a lot of your post as this is > > exciting as I've only seen the sketch and the painting by holbein, not > > anything anyone has made;) Do you have a photo of it? > >I made it myself years ago (somewhere around 14-15 years ago) and >still have the pattern from doing so. However, I don't have any >pictures of it. I'm not fond of having my picture taken. > >It's basically two shaped pieces which are mirrored on the other >side. I do the "Portrait of a woman with a squirrel and a starling" >similar to the"PoaWwaSaaS" and the Holbein sketch labeled "Mother >Jak.". This might give you a better idea than I had 14-15 years ago >about the actual construction. I've got one of those too, but didn't know the name of it. I made one as the base of the Gable headdress, in lightweight white fabric, and another one in thick cotton curtain velvet, as a by-itself cap. Neither needed any stiffening, IIRC, and the chin ties kept them snug to my head. Mine were one piece each, not counting the lining of the velvet one. The square back was folded like I did the square back of my gable, and like the crown of what gets called the 'origami hat' found in Durer. (I figured out the 'origami hat' for my first German Ren. outfit, made in 1971 for my first SCA event.) CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 23:04:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H34NIO004771 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:04:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H33W76009651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:03:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H33VnQ001207; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:03:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H33TnQ001149 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:03:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (bgp380694bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.16.142]) by webwarren.com (8.12.9/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9H33J5I012848 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:03:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031016223504.02f31968@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:03:13 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: [h-cost] to curve a pattern In-Reply-To: <200310161646.h9GGk8GL005715@net.indra.com> References: <200310161646.h9GGk8GL005715@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:49:12 +0200, "Bjarne og Leif Drews" wrote: >I have a question i cant figure it out. I have Corel Draw, a wonderfull >computer program for everything in drawing. >If i have a pattern i want to curve a little, how do i do that? The short answer: use the node-edit tool and edit the Bezier curve. The longer answer: I'm going to presume you have the toolbar in the default position (on the left) because that's where I usually keep it. Click on the object you want to edit (recurve). Now click on the second tool from the top. IIRC (I just rebuilt my system and haven't reinstalled Corel yet) it looks like a curve with an arrow pointing to it. The lines on your object should now look sort of perforated (- - - - - -), possibly with large hollow squares and small black squares showing. Click once on the line you want to curve. You should definitely see the hollow squares and the black squares. The black squares stick out a bit from the curve and are sort of attached by blue dotted lines. Click on one of the black squares and drag it a bit. Rotating the blue line closer to the curved line makes the curve flatten out; pulling it further away makes it curve more. Making it bigger moves the curve closer to the center; making it smaller moves the curve closer to the end of the curved line you're working from. If you need more control over points in the center, double-click at one of those points on the line you're trying to edit, and a new hollow square will appear. Now when you move the black squares and blue lines, you'll only change the curve from one end to the hollow square, not the whole original curved line. There are a couple of other things you may need to do, like pull down or display the node-edit roll-up and/or convert from lines to curves or cusps, but the icons on the roll-up are pretty straightforward. Hope this helps. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 23:21:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H3LfIO004986 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:21:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H3KZ76010630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:20:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H3KVnQ009475; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:20:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H3KTnQ009461 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:20:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-35-144.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.35.144])h9H3KS8f010189 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:20:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031016201230.05b13bc0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:20:23 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What did folks in wool-wearing climates do when the weather heated up? Certainly men could take garments off - I've seen period documentation for that, including contemporary illustrations from several periods. What options did working women have? Were there Summer-weight garments, or fabrics? Was linen ever an outerwear fabric for Summer? Any period/country before about 1800 will do here, but I'm most interested in the Germanies in the 1500s, any social station. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 16 23:43:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H3hrIO005061 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:43:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H3gM76011661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:42:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H3gKnQ019712; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:42:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ms-smtp-02.texas.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.texas.rr.com [24.93.36.230]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H3gHnQ019691 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:42:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Isabeau (cs662559-17.houston.rr.com [66.25.59.17]) h9H3gHmL006855 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:42:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <007b01c39460$b19243f0$0302a8c0@Isabeau> From: "HL Isabeau Quiquandon" To: Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:42:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] RE: Delurking X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h9H3hrIO005061 Status: RO "Audrey Bergeron-Morin said: Why only reed boning? I know whalebone is not available anymore, but I also know reeds were not the only alternative. " The whalebone we can get, of course, is made of plastic. Reeds on the other hand are period and are available. Thanks for your input. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 00:24:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H4OaIO005208 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:24:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H4Nr76013950 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:23:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H4NpCE010008; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:23:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H4NlCE009966 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:23:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([209.204.72.102]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:21:32 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:23:55 -0400 Message-ID: <000301c39466$7b175e90$6648ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20031016201230.05b13bc0@mail.frys.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn wrote: <> Well, there are a couple of answers to this question. First of all, I don't think common people in any period from the 1500s to the 1800s had the same concept of "summer wardrobe" and "winter wardrobe" like we do. Clothing was expensive, and you usually dealt with heat by taking off or putting on layers, not wearing a lighter or heavier fabric. It would be more normal, for instance, to wear more petticotes in the cold months or add a quilted petticote to your usual number of petticotes. And stripping down to a single petticote was like going around in your panties! Same thing with upper body garments. We have extant knitted woolen and quilted waistcoats or vests that women (and men) wore under their other garments. They weren't seen. They were for warmth. In the summer, of course, they weren't worn. In the summer, when working in hot conditions, a man or woman could take his/her jacket off. But men still wore their waistcoats and women their stays with a kerchief. And generally we see them put their outer garments back on when the heavy work is done. There are extant linen woman's jacket from the 17th century and 18th centuries. But there are also different varieties of wool. I doubt that the California summer is worse than the Pennsylvania summer, and I wear wool all year round here. It's just thin, tropical weight wool. And the wonderful thing about wool is the same garment that breathed so well in July will insult very well in December. =) Hope this helps, Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 00:34:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H4Y1IO005270 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:34:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H4XK76014383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:33:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H4XJCE014367; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:33:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H4XGCE014346 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:33:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([209.204.72.102]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:31:02 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: RE: Learning to sew Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:33:25 -0400 Message-ID: <000901c39467$ce963a40$6648ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-reply-to: <6.0.0.22.0.20031016134651.031a70e8@earthlink.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Brenda wrote: <> My Mum and I stopped understanding each other when I developed a distinct dislike for sewing machines and she has always hated handsewing. Apparently, my Grandmother used to handsew everything, so my Mum and her hand a conflict opposite to ours now. Maybe that's how it's supposed to work -- when you get to that age that you can't stand being taught anything by your parents, you get closer to your grandparents. =) Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 00:45:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H4jVIO005332 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:45:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H4ip76014838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:44:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H4ioCE019830; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:44:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H4ilCE019781 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:44:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.9f.3f024cb2 (3874) for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:44:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <9f.3f024cb2.2cc0cdb6@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:44:38 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume books I've just bought, and why costumingistaking a bac... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10712 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/16/2003 5:23:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, msberard@earthlink.net writes: > But I would think that in the past it would occur from lack of food. > Also I'm sure that the period just doesn't suddenly stop when you get > to the magic number (whatever that % is) but as you get closer the > cycle would diminish. > I don't know about in the past, however, i can tell you from lack of food (or body fat if you would prefer, since for me they were the same.) I am a recovered anoretic. I hit 98 pounds. Exactly two monthes after that they stopped. They didn't start again, until I was attempting to eat regularly. However, that being said, like so many other things, depends on your body. Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 00:47:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H4lbIO005337 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:47:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H4l076014921 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:47:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H4l0CE020750; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:47:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au (adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au [143.216.236.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H4kvCE020700 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:46:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h9H4kmpx005917 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:16:48 +0930 (CST)' Received: from sagemsbb006.saugov.sa.gov.au (sagemsbb006.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au [143.216.59.14])(8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h9H4kimv005840 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:16:44 +0930 (CST)' Received: by sagemsbb006.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2654.89) id <4BNHKPQQ>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:16:43 +0930 Message-ID: <1016FD8698B3F14DB829819C6B856EC7598DDE@sagemsg0005.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au> From: "Tonkin, Rebecca (PIRSA-SARDI)" To: "'h-costume@mail.indra.com'" Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:16:28 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2654.89) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9H4kvCE020700 Subject: [h-cost] Re: crepe (Long!) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO About crepe: below are some quotes, 1 from an answer I got from a different list, when I asked about crepe pre-16th century, 1 from the archives here. In summary: pre-1000 - in Northern (Scandinavian) Europe, broken twill patterns, yes, over-twisted yarns, probably (not 100% sure of source). 1000-1800 - not as far as we know. 18-something to present - invention of crepe with over-twisted yarn _and_ broken twill structure using machine looms. The quotes start here-------------------- "While a simple four-harness/shaft crepe structure was woven on warp-weighted looms prior to 1000 (See Bender Jørgensen, Lise. Forhistoriske Textiler i Skandinavien. Nordiske Fortidsminder Serie B, Bind 9. Copenhagen: Det Kongelige Nordiske Oldskriftselskab, 1986. -----. North European Textiles until AD 1000. Aarhus, Denmark: Aarhus University Press, 1991. Wonderful book...), what you get as crepe these days is much more complex, having been woven on a commercial loom of anywhere from two to a bazillion harnesses. Crepe-backed satin is one of those complex multi-harnessed critters where you've got two different cloth structures interlocked together. Crepe, when a weaver is discussing fabric interlacement structure, is a random broken twill, usually woven on eight or more shafts. A simple four-harness crepe was woven on the warp-weighted loom as far back as 800 or thereabouts in Northern Europe-- the archaeological textile people call it by its German name, Kreuzkoeper or korskiper in Danish, and define it as a 2/2 twill that reverses weave every two threads; it has no specific name in English. This is what the ancient crepe looked like: ..XX..XX..XX..XX..XX..XX .X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X XX..XX..XX..XX..XX..XX.. X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X. ..XX..XX..XX..XX..XX..XX .X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X XX..XX..XX..XX..XX..XX.. X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X. There _is_ a pattern, really. ciorstan " -----------------End Quote 1 Quote 2-------------------- >I have a question that I'm really hoping you can help me with. It >concerns crepe weave fabric. Is it documentable to the Middle Ages, or >perhaps even to the Viking era? Weeeellllll, that depends on how you define "crepe." ;> There are two common definitions of "crepe." One is "tabby weave using overspun yarns." The effect of using the overspun yarns is that the cloth crinkles up even though the structure is regular--kind of like the "tracking" effect that some yarns give, only much more pronounced. This type of crepe weave is period to Vikings: some fine wool crepe fragments from Hedeby are believed to be the remains of men's poofy pants. Being lightweight fine wool, they're appropriate for the sort of garment that calls for a great deal of material bunched up in a relatively confined place. --snip-- Accordingly, in order to know whether any given commercial crepe textile you want to use is appropriate, you'd have to dissect a bit of it and see how it's made. Does this help? Yours, Carolyn Priest-Dorman -------------------------Quote Ends _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 01:17:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H5HhIO005529 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:17:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H5H576016117 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:17:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H5H3X1004572; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H5H1X1004527 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMV00084YOCC6@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:17:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:17:39 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer In-reply-to: <000301c39466$7b175e90$6648ccd1@Kass> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031016220632.00b0c9d0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <4.3.1.2.20031016201230.05b13bc0@mail.frys.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:23 AM 10/17/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I doubt >that the California summer is worse than the Pennsylvania summer, and I >wear wool all year round here. Depending on where in California, but I can compare CA to Illinois and Missouri, where I spent a few summers way back. California is dry and hot, very hot. In the central valley, where I live, summers often have heat waves of 105-110+. This is with relatively low humidity, as we are technically a desert. I have heard us described as Mediterranean weather. Breezes and shade are the only things that can help. Illinois I remember stepping out into the 80-90 degree heat, with high humidity where it felt I had just stepped into a sauna. Everything stuck to me, cotton, linen, or polyblends which I hated. But I was a kid then, and that's what I had with me thanks to mom. But I do agree that wool can be worn fairly comfortably during the our hot summers at faire. I just spend as much time in the shade, and pray for a nice breeze to make it bearable. That was wearing lower class clothing, generally leine, wool bodice and skirt, and kertch of linen. What I am finding I am having problems with is the layers of a Tudor dress (Jane Seymour style), especially in the sleeves which double over themselves in velveteen, satin and mesh, not to mention the false undersleeves. Not being able to take the outer sleeves off makes the hotter weather much more difficult to deal with, unlike the lower classes that can remove parts and pieces as they need. I am hoping switching to a linen shirt instead of my old cotton one can help make it a bit more comfortable. my pesos worth... Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 01:27:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H5RKIO005556 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:27:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H5Qb76016532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:26:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H5QaX1008780; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:26:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H5QYX1008755 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:26:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-35-144.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.35.144]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9H5QB7R013165 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:26:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031016221053.05607610@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:26:29 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer In-Reply-To: <000301c39466$7b175e90$6648ccd1@Kass> References: <4.3.1.2.20031016201230.05b13bc0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ><up? Certainly men could take garments off - I've seen period >documentation >for that, including contemporary illustrations from several periods. >What >options did working women have? Were there Summer-weight garments, or >fabrics? Was linen ever an outerwear fabric for Summer?>> > >Well, there are a couple of answers to this question. First of all, I >don't think common people in any period from the 1500s to the 1800s had >the same concept of "summer wardrobe" and "winter wardrobe" like we do. >Clothing was expensive, and you usually dealt with heat by taking off or >putting on layers, not wearing a lighter or heavier fabric. It would be >more normal, for instance, to wear more petticotes in the cold months or >add a quilted petticote to your usual number of petticotes. And >stripping down to a single petticote was like going around in your >panties! Same thing with upper body garments. We have extant knitted >woolen and quilted waistcoats or vests that women (and men) wore under >their other garments. They weren't seen. They were for warmth. In the >summer, of course, they weren't worn. In the summer, when working in >hot conditions, a man or woman could take his/her jacket off. But men >still wore their waistcoats and women their stays with a kerchief. And >generally we see them put their outer garments back on when the heavy >work is done. I do use that method when in costume. But, like you said, there's only so much I can decently take off. >There are extant linen woman's jacket from the 17th century and 18th >centuries. But there are also different varieties of wool. I doubt >that the California summer is worse than the Pennsylvania summer, Relatively low humidity, or I'd never get to wear costumes. 25% humidity is considered muggy by the locals, and 55 degrees=cold. I do very badly at 85+ Fahrenheit, and have been known to faint in a most ungenteel way on very hot days. >and I >wear wool all year round here. It's just thin, tropical weight wool. >And the wonderful thing about wool is the same garment that breathed so >well in July will insulate very well in December. =) I do have some really lightweight wool, from Pendleton, but I wanted to be reassured that I wouldn't roast while wearing it. Usually I stick to linen garments, outer and inner, and even they are kind-of hot, and I end up sweating a lot and generally being miserable while others around me are claiming it's a fine Summer day. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 01:34:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H5YPIO005577 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:34:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H5Xk76016877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:33:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H5XjX1012090; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:33:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H5XhX1012071 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:33:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-35-144.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.35.144]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9H5XK7R017103 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:33:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031016222744.05626670@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:33:26 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031016220632.00b0c9d0@64.87.54.245> References: <000301c39466$7b175e90$6648ccd1@Kass> <4.3.1.2.20031016201230.05b13bc0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >California is dry and hot, very hot. In the central valley, where I live, >summers often have heat waves of 105-110+. This is with relatively low >humidity, as we are technically a desert. I have heard us described as >Mediterranean weather. Breezes and shade are the only things that can help. I live just south of Oakland, within (long) walking distance of the Bay, and at home I mostly don't have this problem. But our local Ren. Faires are inland, away from the Bay breezes, and I usually roast. >But I do agree that wool can be worn fairly comfortably during the our hot >summers at faire. I just spend as much time in the shade, and pray for a >nice breeze to make it bearable. That was wearing lower class clothing, >generally leine, wool bodice and skirt, and kertch of linen. That's what I'm doing at Northern this year, except that my dress is linen. Fortunately this site has breezes on even the hottest days. >What I am finding I am having problems with is the layers of a Tudor dress >(Jane Seymour style), especially in the sleeves which double over >themselves in velveteen, satin and mesh, not to mention the false >undersleeves. Not being able to take the outer sleeves off makes the >hotter weather much more difficult to deal with, unlike the lower classes >that can remove parts and pieces as they need. I am hoping switching to a >linen shirt instead of my old cotton one can help make it a bit more >comfortable. Yeah - earlier is the real problem. I can manage, with cotton and linen, as far back as the 1700s. But before than that I'm kind-of out of luck. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 01:36:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H5apIO005588 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:36:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H5a976017023 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:36:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H5a9X1013412; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:36:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H5a6X1013386 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:36:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([209.204.72.102]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:33:52 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:36:15 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01c39470$95a28550$6648ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-reply-to: <5.2.1.1.0.20031016220632.00b0c9d0@64.87.54.245> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko wrote: <> I'm willing to bet that a linen shirt will help you feel more comfortable, Kimiko. Until I tried it, I didn't think it would be any different than a 100% cotton one. But there's something about the structure of linen that makes it stand away from your skin when it's wet (rather than stick to it like cotton tend to do), and that can be a godsend on a sticky-hot day. Once I made myself one linen underdress, I never went back. =) Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 02:34:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H6YnIO019086 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:34:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H6Xr76019344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:33:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H6Xpr8009530; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:33:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H6Xnr8009518 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:33:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip99.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.99]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 473CB6A68A for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:28:48 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:34:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Delurking Message-ID: <3F8F2AF4.8312.1AD47ED6@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <007b01c39460$b19243f0$0302a8c0@Isabeau> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > "Audrey Bergeron-Morin said: > > Why only reed boning? I know whalebone is not available anymore, but I > also know reeds were not the only alternative. " > > The whalebone we can get, of course, is made of plastic. Reeds on the > other hand are period and are available. However, we can't get the kind of reeds that were used in the 16th Century because they are now protected vegetation. You'd have to get a type of reed which was similar in all its properties, or you aren't really any more "period" than using spring steel as a substitute for whalebone. (That's what I still use, having a sample of whalebone which I use to show people the comparison.) There was a "synthetic whalebone" which was discussed on this list in the past. It was some sort of plastic from Germany. I was recently told that they had tried the website given and that it was no longer active. I don't know if that means the product is no longer available or if someone just cybersquatted them onto another website. If anyone has more recent information, I'm sure that many people would be interested. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 02:42:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H6gUIO022143 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:42:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H6fp76019617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:41:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H6fnr8013436; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:41:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H6fjr8013385 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:41:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip99.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.99]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C14B6AA34 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:41:43 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:42:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer Message-ID: <3F8F2CC9.29521.1ADBA846@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20031016201230.05b13bc0@mail.frys.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > What did folks in wool-wearing climates do when the weather heated up? > Certainly men could take garments off - I've seen period > documentation for that, including contemporary illustrations from > several periods. What options did working women have? Were there > Summer-weight garments, or fabrics? Was linen ever an outerwear > fabric for Summer? In Renaissance Italy they wore specific gown types for summer and others in the winter. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 02:42:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H6gdIO022215 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:42:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H6g476019643 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:42:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H6g3r8013560; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H6fkr8013393 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:41:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip99.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.99]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E86DA6AA4E for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:41:44 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:42:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer Message-ID: <3F8F2CC9.21956.1ADBA940@localhost> Priority: normal References: <000301c39466$7b175e90$6648ccd1@Kass> In-reply-to: <5.2.1.1.0.20031016220632.00b0c9d0@64.87.54.245> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > What I am finding I am having problems with is the layers of a Tudor > dress (Jane Seymour style), especially in the sleeves which double > over themselves in velveteen, satin and mesh, not to mention the false > undersleeves. Not being able to take the outer sleeves off makes the > hotter weather much more difficult to deal with, unlike the lower > classes that can remove parts and pieces as they need. I am hoping > switching to a linen shirt instead of my old cotton one can help make > it a bit more comfortable. Definitely go with the linen shirt. Also, in the Jane Seymour time there were other sleeves than the ones with the false sleeves and suchlike. They had slimmer sleeved dresses as well, we just don't have as many portraits of them. While I have several slides of them, I don't know which books they came from. However, C.W. and Phillis Cunnington's _Handbook of Sixteenth Century English Costume_ can give you a good idea of the various varieties of sleeve in that time period. I've found pics of most of them in scattered places (rarely in costuming books, however.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 02:53:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H6rBIO026361 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:53:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H6qV76019980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:52:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H6qTr8018813; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:52:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H6qOr8018758 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:52:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([209.204.72.102]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:50:10 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Delurking Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:52:33 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c3947b$3e7c07f0$6648ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-reply-to: <3F8F2AF4.8312.1AD47ED6@localhost> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kat wrote: <> I don't know about the site in Germany, but Grannd.com carries this synthetic whalebone. You can find it here: http://www.grannd.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Store_Code=GS&Screen=CTGY&Ca tegory_Code=SSCORWB Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 03:40:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H7eTIO010292 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 03:40:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H7da76021531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:39:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H7dYWw008473; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:39:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H7dVWw008457 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:39:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-35-144.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.35.144]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9H7d87R019561 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031017003723.0554d4d0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:39:11 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer In-Reply-To: <3F8F2CC9.29521.1ADBA846@localhost> References: <4.3.1.2.20031016201230.05b13bc0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > What did folks in wool-wearing climates do when the weather heated up? > > Certainly men could take garments off - I've seen period > > documentation for that, including contemporary illustrations from > > several periods. What options did working women have? Were there > > Summer-weight garments, or fabrics? Was linen ever an outerwear > > fabric for Summer? > >In Renaissance Italy they wore specific gown types for summer and >others in the winter. My SCA persona is German, but the same period as some of the prettiest Italian dresses. Pity that nobody does 1520s Italian, or 1400s anything, at Ren. Faires in California. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 04:31:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9H8VIIO027432 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 04:31:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H8Ue76023153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:30:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H8Uc91029010; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:30:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H8UZ91028973 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:30:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h9H8VYA28264.; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:31:34 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:30:29 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:30:11 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pants question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What period is your costume for, Bjorn? Most 17th century breeches closed below the knee, though they were much easier in fit than Bjarne's 18th century ones. Shorter ones were worn in the 16th century, though... Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> formo@lynchburg.edu 10/16/03 08:14pm >>> So my mistake was that they don't tie ABOVE the knee, they tie BELOW. That's what I get for trusting my memory instead of picking up a book at looking at the examples. Still I think they turned out well. Since I'm doing all of this by guess work and logic leaps it's probably lucky they come out right at all. Still learning.... Bjorn Arnaldsson > > If you make some pants for 18th century mens breeches, they > are tied below > the knees with a tape and buckle. > When you meassures your pants lenght, you must bend your > knee, and meassure > from waist tojust below the knee. Pants is not supposed to go > over the knee, > just because you sit down, they must stay under the knee, so > you have to add > a little lenght for stretching. > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 08:36:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HCajIO015028 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:36:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HCV676003081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:31:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HCV1tZ029676; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [63.251.216.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HCUwtZ029655 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:30:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from megan2 (pcp793473pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [68.50.52.14]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D1EB15C26 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 05:31:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:35:41 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031017003723.0554d4d0@mail.frys.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Also remember that Europe was in a "mini ice age" and simply did not have the extremely warm temperatures that can occur in the California desert, in the time period when the tudor and Elizabethan garments were worn. 105 degrees F still doesn't happen often, if ever in England (help me here, Teddy). So it's kind of an apple and orange comparison thing. That said, tropical weight wool and linen can be very comfortable. I am still amazed at the difference wearing a 100% linen shirt versus a 100% cotton shirt here in DC summers. And, I think it is also conditioning. I wear jeans and long sleeves all summer long, even here in DC. Some folks don't understand why I'm not roasting. If you wear a type of garment all year, you adjust as the temperature goes up. And you can be comfortable. If you run around in T-shirts all the time, you may not be heat-adjusted to wearing heavier clothing at the same temperature. I work with folks who wear long-sleeved shirts under their scrub shirts all summer long, and do not sweat. But I do not, and don't need them, even though I wear more clothing outside. My husband, on the other hand, does not have the ability to heat-adjust, and is just miserable any time the temperature is over around 80 degrees. He was raised in Canada. But I think I'm rambling. Sorry this was so long, just my 2 cents worth. -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 08:40:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HCe0IO015042 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:40:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HCdD76003461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:39:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HCdCtZ003861; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:39:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HCdAtZ003845 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:39:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www23.ureach.com (www23.ureach.com [172.16.2.51]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA31520 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:39:10 -0400 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by www23.ureach.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id IAA19989; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:39:10 -0400 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:39:10 -0400 Message-Id: <200310171239.IAA19989@www23.ureach.com> Received: from [68.154.3.40] by www23.ureach.com via HTTP; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:39:10 GMT To: "kat@grendal.rain.com" From: Teena Kessinger Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lettice caps, was: Re: Tudor gable headdresses, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-vsuite-type: e X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok... I'll bite.... What the heck is a lettuce cap? And do I have to wear it with crumbled bleu cheese? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 09:01:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HD1FIO015238 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:01:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HD0U76004422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:00:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HD0TFC013357; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:00:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HD0QFC013336 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:00:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h9HD1VA18053.; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:01:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:00:25 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:00:12 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't think Teddy's on the list any more, Megan, but I can tell you that the temperatures in the mid 90s F that we had in the UK in early August were exceptional. I read that the record was 103 degrees in Kent. "Eighty in the shade" is the classic British notion of a hot day - and no doubt the average was cooler in the 16th century. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> megan@benchite.com 10/17/03 01:35pm >>> >Also remember that Europe was in a "mini ice age" and simply did not have >the extremely warm temperatures that can occur in the California desert, in >the time period when the tudor and Elizabethan garments were worn. 105 >degrees F still doesn't happen often, if ever in England (help me here, >Teddy). I survived around 96 degrees that weekend in a sleeveless wool bodice with a neckerchief draped over my shoulders, rather than pinned at the throat. (Probably a sleeveless bodice is inappropriate for my persona, the widow of a professional musician, but I tend to feel faint if I get too hot while playing wind instruments.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 09:44:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HDiSIO015698 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:44:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HDfd76006653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:41:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HDfcFC004777; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:41:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HDfXFC004725 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:41:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fe4.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.228]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A5E27262A17 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:41:31 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000f01c394b4$5ef03310$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:41:29 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] to curve a pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Brenda. Thanks a lot for your kind help. You helped me a lot!!! Thanks Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 11:04:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HF4PIO016362 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:04:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HF3N76012050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:03:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HF3BoE027099; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:03:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9HF39oE027026 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:03:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OoRRSBptlm1ddK6JS0M8jms=">; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:02:38 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JCPX6X9X; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:02:38 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:25:37 -0700 Message-ID: <20031017.080141.1424.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-9 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: Cley@juno.com cc: antir-laurels@antir.sca.org Subject: [h-cost] German brick stitch X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all. I was wondering if anyone had any links to a good German brickstitch site. By good, I mean it discusses materials, has graphs and patterns and recognizable directions. I've already read the Complete Anachronist issue on the subject, and got hopelessly lost; it looked to me like part of the instructions were missing, but that could be because I'm not good at reading embroidery directions. ;) Any and all help hugely appreciated. Thanks, Arlys (music geek) ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 11:13:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HFD1IO016417 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:13:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFCA76012899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:12:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFC8C4003617; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:12:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFC5C4003577 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:12:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104036.uvm.edu [132.198.104.36]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFC4Sv002369 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:12:04 -0400 Message-ID: <3F9006C5.8030302@uvm.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:12:05 -0400 From: Hope Greeenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses, was V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition References: <00ae01c391a2$45dbd470$75f5da0c@DT2JBTC21> <00f001c39291$3e4f3f40$0200a8c0@comcast.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20031014184350.02f8c708@64.87.54.245> <3F8D4511.7060304@uvm.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi - Kimiko, thanks for bringing this subject up. It's time I started thinking about this hat again. Jean wrote: > I found your different technique interesting, especially the way you > manage to get the box at the back. My full frame was partly designed > for robustness in transport, because an earlier version did end up a bit > battered after a while. Oh boy, I know what you mean. This poor hat gets squashed into a box that is really not quite big enough, but it has held up really well. When it's squashed I just unsquash it and away we go. For the second one I did put in one extra bit of boning across the top. We'll see if that makes it better or worse. One thing I did notice after making it: in the Holbein drawings, the back peak seems to be raised up a bit. After dragging this hat around and squashing it numerous times it now looks exactly like that in the back! > Am I reading your instructions for the tails right, that they are just > sewn on the bottom edge of the box? The pictures I have seen of the > back of a hood all seem to show seams across the diagonals of the box. > Or is that something you were planning to tackle in the second version? > Hmm...I did this quite awhile ago so I need to remember what I was thinking at the time... When I began planning this hat the only pattern I had was the one from Hill&Bucknell. It never seemed right to me because of two things: the Holbein back view shows a perfect square, not the truncated square from that and other patterns, and the Holbein drawings/paintings seem to indicate that the hat is somewhat flexible and form fitting, sitting back from the face. When I decided to try making one I decided to start from the square back, then move forward, trying to determine which areas were rigid and which were not. The stiff areas seemed to be that square at the back and angles just around the face, particularly at the chin level, but there seemed to be much less rigidity across the top of the head. I also wanted to work more from the drawings than from the portraits, assuming, based on most critiques of Holbein's work, that the sketches were more likely what he SAW, whereas the portraits are more about what he wanted to SAY about the sitter. It wasn't until after I made this that I saw the wire frames at MOL, but was happy that, though they don't tell us everything we want to know about these hats (oh, why didn't 16th century people have a better sense of what 21st century reenactors would want, and save us some examples!), they at least didn't utterly contradict the design I tried. Anyway, the idea to start with a box and carry that line forward, with enough rigidity around the face to keep the bottom edges from splaying out, was what I was after. That part worked out well, I think. The next big question was the veil/tails. I decided not to worry about them too much on the first hat. I decided to just cut and sew what I saw from the "back view" image, then see if that provided clues as to how it might actually have been done, afterward. I ended up doing a sort of origami covering of the box, with two separate tails stitched on. This is not exactly how most of the other drawings look, but the "back-view" drawing is a bit different from most of the other drawings. I'm still thinking about this one. There are plenty of 15th century examples of women wearing black headdresses where the veil is shaped to the box-like back and then splays out from there (I should add some of those to the site). The Holbein back view definitely shows the tails extending at a 90 degree angle from the bottom two sides of the box, and other drawings also seem to show the same angle, though in several cases the tail is not tucked so tightly against the edge. Hmm..that's not clear...I mean the back view tails seem to be the width of each side of the box and emanate directly from it, while others don't seem to be stitched directly to the bottom edges of the box, rather, appear more loose. Oh, dear, I'm still not describing it well. On the sketches that have what might be seam lines, the line also seems to extend at a 90 degree angle from that box bottom edge. Here: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/langdonpl34.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/daunceydet.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/parkerpl18.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/ladysketch.jpg (maybe) The end of the "tails" also seems to be rectangular on most of these. So, for my next hat (one of these days!) I want to experiment with using a rectangular or square fall, maybe cut in an upside-down L shape, though that may not be necessary, and see where that takes me. The other big question mark is the "turban." I keep thinking that if this was indeed a separate turban wrapped around the head it would lay at such an angle that it would neither stand up and out from the head as the drawings seem to show, nor would it fill in the angles of the hat around the face in such a way as to make the stripes of the turban appear to be directly at right angles to the inside hat edge. But maybe I'm just envisioning the wrong kind of wrapping...And of course I really like the way the back of this sort of interior hat band really makes the hat fit well and sit securely on my head. So, lots of musing, sorry to drone on for so long. Thanks for the opportunity to put some more thought into this hat. Maybe I'll actually work on that second one some time soon! Then again, I also want to try the French Hood. I have some strange ideas about that one, too, based on French and Flemish paintings from the turn of the 15th/16th century. - Hope -------------------- hope.greenberg@uvm.edu, University of Vermont _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 11:15:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HFFXIO016427 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:15:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFEl76013136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:14:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFEkC4005686; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:14:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFEgC4005616 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:14:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip13.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.13]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CE886A82B for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:09:39 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:09:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lettice caps, was: Re: Tudor gable headdresses, Message-ID: <3F8FA3D7.19746.1CACB88C@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <200310171239.IAA19989@www23.ureach.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Ok... I'll bite.... What the heck is a lettuce cap? And do I > have to wear it with crumbled bleu cheese? It's lettice, not lettuce. No associations with salads at all. It's an early Tudor hat made of a fur called lettice. The lettice evidently was a coney/rabbit-like animal with a dense fur. Some examples of this headdress are: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/holb5.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/holbsq.jpg There is also a smaller version and one with color, but I couldn't find any online forms of them. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 11:20:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HFKYIO016435 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:20:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFJi76013604 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:19:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFJgC4009740; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:19:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFJdC4009708 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:19:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104036.uvm.edu [132.198.104.36]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFJdSv004176 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:19:39 -0400 Message-ID: <3F90088C.1040106@uvm.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:19:40 -0400 From: Hope Greeenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses, was V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition References: <3F8E6149.22286.17C0BC75@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3F8E6149.22286.17C0BC75@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > I agree that there was probably some sort of linen undercap. I don't > know if it was the same one in the socalled Anne Boleyn sketc. It > just seems too bulk. And they'd have to tuck in the cheek pieces and > remove the neck piece at some point. I agree some sort of linen cap is likely, especially as, in the few drawings where you can see a bit of hair at the forehead, it seems to be held securely and tautly back. But I also agree that the Anne Boleyn cap probably isn't it. It seems too substantial, rather more like the underhat worn under the beret-shaped bonnet in other drawings. I started with the idea of the extended bits around the chin of that hat being the white bits that you see in the gable hat, but the angle seemed wrong, so I abandoned that idea. - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 11:33:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HFXjIO016523 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:33:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFWn76015023 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:32:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFWlC4021398; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:32:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [66.136.30.169]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFWgC4021319 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:32:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from escom.antek [192.168.0.151] by web.antekhou.com (SMTPD32-8.00) id AB982B302DC; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:32:40 -0500 Received: From PACws22 ([65.45.18.250]) by escom.antek (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 1066404759234; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:32:39 -0500 Message-ID: <006301c394c3$7e4b3f20$0f64a8c0@algx> From: "Cyn Bucheger" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:29:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] in search of X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I'm having trouble locating an image, partially because I'm not sure what it's called, by who, what country, etc. I believe it's sixteenth century, later rather than earlier. It is of a garment that looks a lot like a short cloak with poofy sleeves, about hip length, I think a high collar. It looks a lot like the coat that Henry VIII wears in a lot of his later portraits, but shorter for women. Any one have a suggestion where I can find an image of such a garment? thanks Cyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 11:38:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HFcpIO016567 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:38:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFc376015513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFc1C4026236; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from orval.sprint.ca (orval.sprint.ca [209.5.194.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFbwC4026195 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:37:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shooie ([149.99.67.14]) by orval.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031017153757.HDSY1080.orval.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:37:57 -0400 Message-ID: <006f01c394c4$90eda4a0$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031016201230.05b13bc0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20031017003723.0554d4d0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:37:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" > > > > What did folks in wool-wearing climates do when the weather heated up? > > > Certainly men could take garments off - I've seen period > > > documentation for that, including contemporary illustrations from > > > several periods. What options did working women have? Were there > > > Summer-weight garments, or fabrics? Was linen ever an outerwear > > > fabric for Summer? I just avoided the issue entirely! :-) This is the exact reason I wear 15th-16th C Turkish during the summer months. Summers in the Canadian Prairies, as in the Near East, can have a huge range of temperature changes throughout the day, and I discovered the ability to add and remove layers without changing the look of the outfit I was wearing was wonderful. An added bonus, no sunburn as I stay covered all day but can remain quite cool. I usually wear a variety of silks, linens, cottons and light wools. I save my lovely warm European gowns for the fall and winter months when all of our events are indoors. Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 11:47:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HFl7IO016640 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:47:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFkJ76016169 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:46:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFkIC4004143; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:46:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFjfC4003607 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:45:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])h9HFjeBp018415 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:45:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031017114255.00b75a88@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:45:47 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] in search of In-Reply-To: <006301c394c3$7e4b3f20$0f64a8c0@algx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Cyn... I have a vague recollection of something like this in the"Trachtenbuch" ... hmmm... if no one else has one on hand I can check later this evening. Bridgette >Greetings, >I'm having trouble locating an image, partially because I'm not sure what >it's called, by who, what country, etc. > >I believe it's sixteenth century, later rather than earlier. It is of a >garment that looks a lot like a short cloak with poofy sleeves, about hip >length, I think a high collar. It looks a lot like the coat that Henry VIII >wears in a lot of his later portraits, but shorter for women. > >Any one have a suggestion where I can find an image of such a garment? > >thanks >Cyn Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 12:02:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HG2mIO016673 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:02:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFum76017084 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:56:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HFukk8012813; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:56:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9HFufk8012737 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:56:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 11625 invoked by uid 1005); 17 Oct 2003 15:56:33 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.165787 secs); 17 Oct 2003 15:56:33 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.165787 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 17 Oct 2003 15:56:32 -0000 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:56:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer In-Reply-To: <006f01c394c4$90eda4a0$cb6afea9@shooie> Message-ID: <20031017114224.R93669-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > > > > What did folks in wool-wearing climates do when the weather heated up? > > > > Certainly men could take garments off - I've seen period > > > > documentation for that, including contemporary illustrations from > > > > several periods. What options did working women have? Were there > > > > Summer-weight garments, or fabrics? Was linen ever an outerwear > > > > fabric for Summer? Interesting question. I remember reading a quote somewhere of a 16th c. German man complaining that in very hot summers women would walk about outside in their shift and apron (A German apron, which covers a lot more than the "usual" apron). A quote from an early 17th c visitor to New England mentioned that in summer, respectable men would discard their doublets entirely, and go about in their shirts. An early 17th c. dutch painting shows a servant woman wearing only a shift, corset, petticoat and apron. Inventories of Spanish settlers in St. Augustine show a larger than usual proportion of canvas & linen garments than most European inventories. Queen Elizabeth had linen hose made for summer, and some of her garments were altered for summer wear (fur and flannel linings replaced with light silk sarcanet, and replaced with fur again when winter rolled around.) So it looks like both stripping down and wearing lighter garments were warm-weather strategies used in the 16th c. In addition, I'm sure that some people just grinned and bore it as the price they paid for propriety..like early 20th c. officeworkers that wore a wool suit and tie to work in places without air-conditioning, even on the hottest summer days. Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 12:04:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HG4rIO016683 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:04:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HG4976017769 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:04:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HG47k8020010; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:04:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from exchange.lynchburg.edu ([161.115.184.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HG43k8019945 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:04:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by exchange.lynchburg.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <40X2ZTVM>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:04:03 -0400 Message-ID: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA950D@exchange.lynchburg.edu> From: "Formo, Nathan" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:04:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Pants Question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I hate to admit but I'm still in the anachronism phase of costume construction. If I see something that looks good I try to copy it as best I can. Hopefully with all the costuming/garb/authenticity groups I'm on I'll get to the next step soon. Anyway the pants were to go with a Doublet, supposedly Italian Ren style. As it was a commercial pattern I'm not sure about that anymore. A theater costumer helped me make it and the directions/sizing was really messed up. With the doublet I had a set of stuffed Slopes and Panes. The trouble was that they seemed pretty short (mid-thigh) and were not designed with movement in mind. (I can't kneel to one knee. For dancing/sword fighting etc this was unacceptable.) I still don't know why I didn't have a range of movement. When fitting the pattern we had added extra fabric because they seemed to tight from the beginning. But it ended up that while they are good for walking around and posing they just weren't practical. So when I decided to make new pants I wanted movement to be the primary focus. I also wanted S&P's a little longer. At Ren Faires everyone else with S&Ps had them close to knee length. So I wanted to extend them as well. So I measured based on pairs of pants I already own, made mock ups to test fitting and stretch ($1yd fabric is nice), and once I had it pretty much sized comfortably I begin to sew. While sewing I realized that my design had larger openings on the leg then needed. So I started trying to think of a way to get the leg's closed off without having to trim fabric. (Old S&P's got tight in legs since I keep working out/dancing. I needed something that would tie so I had room to grow.) That's when I made the mistake of thinking that ties were above the knee not below. So basically I have Slopes and Panes that reach just above my knee, tied with ribbons in the cuffs in an imitation of Colonial styles, except that I have it tieing above the knee, not below. Please don't send the authenticity police after me yet. I will redeem myself one of these days. ;) (I suppose I shouldn't mention the nice silver buttons with celtic knotwork or the fact that I had to use metallic ribbon in the Panes since I couldn't find the right color in any type of cloth. Ooops) If you are interested I will hopefully have pictures after this weekend. I'll be mixing everything up by wearing my Ren style Doublet plus S&Ps to a Colonial event where I will be dancing a mixture of Court/Barn/and early Ballet styles. (The majority of the dances use period techniques but the duet I'm in features more modern lifts and spins.) Bjorn Arnaldsson > What period is your costume for, Bjorn? Most 17th century breeches > closed below the knee, though they were much easier in fit than > Bjarne's 18th century ones. Shorter ones were worn in the > 16th century, > though... > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > >>> formo@lynchburg.edu 10/16/03 08:14pm >>> > So my mistake was that they don't tie ABOVE the knee, they tie BELOW. > That's what I get for trusting my memory instead of picking up a book > at > looking at the examples. Still I think they turned out well. Since > I'm > doing all of this by guess work and logic leaps it's probably lucky > they > come out right at all. Still learning.... > > Bjorn Arnaldsson > > > > > If you make some pants for 18th century mens breeches, they > > are tied below > > the knees with a tape and buckle. > > When you meassures your pants lenght, you must bend your > > knee, and meassure > > from waist tojust below the knee. Pants is not supposed to go > > over the knee, > > just because you sit down, they must stay under the knee, so > > you have to add > > a little lenght for stretching. > > > > Bjarne > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 12:16:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HGGmIO016764 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:16:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HGFu76018749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:15:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HGFrk8000785; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:15:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [66.136.30.169]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HGFmk8000713 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:15:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from escom.antek [192.168.0.151] by web.antekhou.com (SMTPD32-8.00) id A5B359903B8; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:15:47 -0500 Received: From PACws22 ([65.45.18.250]) by escom.antek (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 1066407346722; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:15:46 -0500 Message-ID: <007901c394c9$82c21280$0f64a8c0@algx> From: "Cyn Bucheger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.2.20031017114255.00b75a88@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] in search of Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:12:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is sort of what I was remembering, though I think that is was closed in front. I'm not sure, I seem to associate a funeral theme with the image http://www.landsknecht.com/html/palatinate_noblewoman.html > > Hi Cyn... > I have a vague recollection of something like this in the"Trachtenbuch" > ... hmmm... if no one else has one on hand I can check later this evening. > Bridgette > > >Greetings, > >I'm having trouble locating an image, partially because I'm not sure what > >it's called, by who, what country, etc. > > > >I believe it's sixteenth century, later rather than earlier. It is of a > >garment that looks a lot like a short cloak with poofy sleeves, about hip > >length, I think a high collar. It looks a lot like the coat that Henry VIII > >wears in a lot of his later portraits, but shorter for women. > > > >Any one have a suggestion where I can find an image of such a garment? > > > >thanks > >Cyn > > Mari Stewart > Cornell University > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 12:25:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HGPbIO016900 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:25:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HGOl76019479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:24:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HGOQk8008154; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:24:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HGONk8008041 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:24:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3F57425CE for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:27:55 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3F901802.1030208@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:25:38 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Pants Question References: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA950D@exchange.lynchburg.edu> In-Reply-To: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA950D@exchange.lynchburg.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Formo, Nathan wrote: > > Anyway the pants were to go with a Doublet, supposedly Italian Ren style. > As it was a commercial pattern I'm not sure about that anymore. A theater > costumer helped me make it and the directions/sizing was really messed up. Which pattern was this that didn't fit right? I'd like to know so I can avoid it. :) Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 12:50:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HGohIO016990 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:50:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HGnf76021842 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:49:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HGndk8000676; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:49:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from david.io.com (david.io.com [199.170.88.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HGltk9028813 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:47:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by david.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9HGlbmC006912 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:47:37 -0500 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h9HGn17C024037 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:49:01 -0500 Received: from 199.50.29.41 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:49:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <30953.199.50.29.41.1066409341.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:49:01 -0500 (CDT) From: "Chiara" To: In-Reply-To: <007901c394c9$82c21280$0f64a8c0@algx> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20031017114255.00b75a88@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> <007901c394c9$82c21280$0f64a8c0@algx> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] KWCS request X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would like to know if someone going to the Costume symposium that will be taking the glove class could please grab an extra set of notes and everything for me. I will reinburse you any costs for them. Please contact me asap. I have made several requests of local folks that are going but no one has responded. I am heart broken that I am not going to be able to go so please, if you can, help. Chiara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 13:33:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HHXcIO017309 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:33:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HHWv76028488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:32:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HHWqpn011088; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:32:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HHWGpn010571 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:32:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-35-144.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.35.144])h9HHW68l025210 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:32:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031017102926.05624850@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:30:39 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer In-Reply-To: <006f01c394c4$90eda4a0$cb6afea9@shooie> References: <4.3.1.2.20031016201230.05b13bc0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20031017003723.0554d4d0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I save my lovely warm European gowns for the fall and winter months when all >of our events are indoors. At least you have a real Winter in which to wear these... ;) This close to the San Francisco Bay, we don't. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 13:34:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HHYRIO017314 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:34:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HHWK76028403 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:32:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HHWHpn010590; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:32:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HHWCpn010507 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:32:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-35-144.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.35.144])h9HHW68j025210 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:32:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031017102140.05623e90@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:26:36 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20031017003723.0554d4d0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I am still amazed >at the difference wearing a 100% linen shirt versus a 100% cotton shirt here >in DC summers. I used to live in Tacoma Park, also Laurel. I don't think I could live there again; not in the Summer anyway. But yes, I have discovered linen, and have even learned to recognize it by touch in remnant bins and thrift stores. >I wear jeans and long >sleeves all summer long, even here in DC. Some folks don't understand why >I'm not roasting. If you wear a type of garment all year, you adjust as the >temperature goes up. And you can be comfortable. If you run around in >T-shirts all the time, you may not be heat-adjusted to wearing heavier >clothing at the same temperature. Good point. Maybe that other suggestion of going Italian Ren. makes sense, because I don't usually wear more than that much cloth even in local Winter. >My >husband, on the other hand, does not have the ability to heat-adjust, and is >just miserable any time the temperature is over around 80 degrees. He was >raised in Canada. And I was born in Oregon, so wet, overcast, gloomy weather doesn't bother me (we don't tan, we rust). I don't own a raincoat, only umbrellas, sweaters, and one leather biker-jacket. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 13:58:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HHwDIO017411 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:58:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HHt17c000786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:55:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HHgUpn020417; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:42:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13402.mail.yahoo.com (web13402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9HHgRpn020390 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:42:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031017174226.8446.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.170] by web13402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:42:26 PDT Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:42:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031016222744.05626670@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Hot weather clothing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As Kass said, there are existing examples of linen doublets, jackets, etc. in the 17th century. I haven't really focused on 16th century Elizabethan costume that much, but... aren't there a few upper class portraits where people's shirt or shift sleeves are showing? They're usually highly decorated with blackwork or something, but they're there nontheless. That seems a likely candidate for "Elizabethan Hot Weather Wear". Thanks to Aertsen, Beuckelaer, Campi and others, we already know that the lower classes were stripping down to their shirtsleeves... For my 18th c. clothing, I generally wear linen for all our summer events. It's still hot, but it'd be hot regardless of what I'm wearing! If all else fails, I can dump ice-water over my head. -- Mara __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 14:19:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HIJbIO017497 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:19:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HIIv76003055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:18:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HIIspN022082; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:18:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from berlinr.sprint.ca (berlinr.sprint.ca [209.5.194.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HIIopN022044 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:18:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shooie ([149.99.68.73]) by berlinr.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031017181848.JQHP18383.berlinr.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:18:48 -0400 Message-ID: <009901c394db$09d664e0$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031017174226.8446.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hot weather clothing Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:18:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Another thing to point out, Modern people tend to overlook the natural insulating qualities of old time buildings. Stone, wood and plaster can work very well at keeping out the heat in the summer, if the roof and the outside walls are thick enough. The home I grew up in never needed air conditioning and it was a fairly simple log house with a cedar shingled roof. I recall my Mom always having to wear a sweater indoors, even during the hottest summers. (And alternately, when our power would occaisonally go out in the depths of winter, the fireplace was enough to keep at least the main floor of our house nice and toasty.) Sheridan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mara Riley" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 1:42 PM Subject: [h-cost] Hot weather clothing > As Kass said, there are existing examples of linen doublets, jackets, > etc. in the 17th century. > > I haven't really focused on 16th century Elizabethan costume that > much, but... aren't there a few upper class portraits where people's > shirt or shift sleeves are showing? They're usually highly decorated > with blackwork or something, but they're there nontheless. That > seems a likely candidate for "Elizabethan Hot Weather Wear". > > Thanks to Aertsen, Beuckelaer, Campi and others, we already know that > the lower classes were stripping down to their shirtsleeves... > > For my 18th c. clothing, I generally wear linen for all our summer > events. It's still hot, but it'd be hot regardless of what I'm > wearing! If all else fails, I can dump ice-water over my head. > > -- Mara > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 14:41:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HIfQIO017565 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:41:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HIeX76004896 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:40:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HIeSpN010430; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:40:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from exchange.lynchburg.edu ([161.115.184.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HIeNpN010347 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:40:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by exchange.lynchburg.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <40X2Z4Z1>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:40:22 -0400 Message-ID: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA950E@exchange.lynchburg.edu> From: "Formo, Nathan" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:40:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [h-cost] RE: Pants Question - pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Period Patterns 58 Men's Elizabethan Garments Patterns Now I'm not saying there were no mistakes on mine part or the part of the costumer who helped me. But I assume that when someone who does theater costuming for a living tells me that she will never work with that pattern again there must be something wrong. My problems with the doublet are that it limits my back movement and my shoulders. It also came out a little shorter then I would have thought it should. I lengthened the flaps on the bottom to make up for the obvious gap between doublet and pants if I raise both arms. (A thick belt has also helped hide that.) ((When I say short, without the flaps the bottom on the back of the doublet is about 3 or 4 vertebre higher then where I normally wear my pants at. Mundane or garb.)) As for the SandPs I mentioned that they fit tightly. It seems as if the design is perfect as long as your legs are parallel. (Since I couldn't kneel I am thankful for ballet classes that I could squat to pick up things and still look dignified.) But anything past about a 30 degree angle starts to constrict. (That's to the front. Side was even more restricted.) This is after we added a 2 inch filler strip between the legs to try and make the crotch a looser fit. I also mentioned before something I have always tried to remember since then. Don't make it too snug unless you plan on buying a new one every time you gain or loose weight/muscle. It may not be period but I will always add in some way of being able to tighten or loosen waists and pants legs from now on. I don't know how the legs went from being comfortable to digging into my thighs but I won't have that happen again. Bjorn Arnaldsson > > Formo, Nathan wrote: > > > > > Anyway the pants were to go with a Doublet, supposedly > Italian Ren style. > > As it was a commercial pattern I'm not sure about that > anymore. A theater > > costumer helped me make it and the directions/sizing was > really messed up. > > Which pattern was this that didn't fit right? I'd like to > know so I can > avoid it. :) > > > > Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 14:54:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HIsLIO017582 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:54:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HImE76005563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:48:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HImDpN016626; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:48:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HIm6pN016541 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:48:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from karen (CPE-24-31-232-172.kc.rr.com [24.31.232.172]) h9HIm3hL027025 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:48:04 -0500 (CDT) From: "Talia" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Pants Question - pattern Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:47:23 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA950E@exchange.lynchburg.edu> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO An excellent example of why one should always make a muslin before completing a garment. :) T. > Period Patterns 58 > Men's Elizabethan Garments Patterns > > Now I'm not saying there were no mistakes on mine part or the part of the > costumer who helped me. But I assume that when someone who does theater > costuming for a living tells me that she will never work with that pattern > again there must be something wrong. > My problems with the doublet are that it limits my back movement and my > shoulders. It also came out a little shorter then I would have thought it > should. I lengthened the flaps on the bottom to make up for the > obvious gap > between doublet and pants if I raise both arms. (A thick belt has also > helped hide that.) ((When I say short, without the flaps the > bottom on the > back of the doublet is about 3 or 4 vertebre higher then where I normally > wear my pants at. Mundane or garb.)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 15:00:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HJ0KIO017604 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:00:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HIw976006357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:58:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HIw7lM024739; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:58:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav53.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HIw5lM024643 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:58:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:57:59 -0700 Received: from 66.131.9.61 by bay9-dav53.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:57:59 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.131.9.61] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <007b01c39460$b19243f0$0302a8c0@Isabeau> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Delurking Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:59:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Oct 2003 18:57:59.0964 (UTC) FILETIME=[9594ADC0:01C394E0] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >"Audrey Bergeron-Morin said: > Why only reed boning? I know whalebone is not available anymore, but I also know reeds were not the only alternative. " > The whalebone we can get, of course, is made of plastic. Reeds on the other hand are period and are available. That's exactly what I said: whalebone is not available anymore. And I know reeds are period. I'm just saying I heard of methods OTHER than whalebone or reeds. But I'm not an expert. If you really want reeds, then go ahead and use them, they're fine. But I was just trying to say that you don't need to be limited to that and consider that reeds are your only possibility. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 15:14:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HJEwIO017638 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:14:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJE776007543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:14:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJE5lM007676; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:14:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJE2lM007580 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 358B8425CE for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:17:34 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3F903FC5.4050601@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:15:17 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Pants Question - pattern References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Talia wrote: > An excellent example of why one should always make a muslin before > completing a garment. :) > Yes, it is. However, if the pattern company tells you to cut a certain size based on your chest and waist measurements, and the resulting garment is big enough to fit both you and your cat inside of it -- or in Nathan's case fit too tightly in too many places -- then there is a problem with the pattern, not the person who made it. It's one thing to have to adjust a bust dart or lengthen for a long torso, but to have to alter by entire sizes on the whole pattern set is too much, IMO. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 15:15:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HJFKIO017641 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:15:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJEa76007586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:14:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJEalM008069; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:14:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJEXlM008006 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:14:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f4d.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.77]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D69095EE23D for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:14:31 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001701c394e2$ec0a17b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:14:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] justeaucorps progress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi listmembers. I hope not it is inconvenient to send to you, but if you would like to follow my work on my new suit progress, then i have just uploaded new pictures: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm If you are interrested! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 15:31:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HJVqIO017710 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:31:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJV676009249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:31:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJV1lM021978; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJUxlM021937 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:30:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.121.23.211] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2C19C20140; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:28:01 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031017003723.0554d4d0@mail.frys.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20031016201230.05b13bc0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20031017003723.0554d4d0@mail.frys.com> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:34:09 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >My SCA persona is German, but the same period as some of the >prettiest Italian dresses. Pity that nobody does 1520s Italian, or >1400s anything, at Ren. Faires in California. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows >dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com I noticed that too! That's why I started building my own! I'm just started doing renfaires.... not up to the commitment for Pleasure Faire, but I'm doing all the small ones. At Faire, I like to think of myself as a merchant lady in 1580 selling "olden time" clothes in the Italian style.... ;-D OTOH, I wear all this stuff in everyday life, and I'm trying to encourage other folks to do the same.... Wish me luck at the Sherman Oaks street fair this weekend! Rima http://www.twocrowsstore.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 15:38:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HJc6IO017722 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:38:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJbG76009850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:37:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJbFlM028202; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:37:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.surewest.net (smtp2.surewest.net [208.45.228.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9HJbClM028030 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:37:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 31393 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2003 19:37:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21) (66.205.128.11) by smtp2.surewest.net with SMTP; 17 Oct 2003 19:37:06 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031017123517.00bc3938@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:37:00 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] justeaucorps progress In-Reply-To: <001701c394e2$ec0a17b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2 SNWK2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As always, Bjarne, your work is lovely. And the embroidery does look like velvet. Joan in Sacramento, CA At 09:14 PM 10/17/2003 +0200, you wrote: >Hi listmembers. >I hope not it is inconvenient to send to you, but if you would like to >follow my work on my new suit progress, then i have just uploaded new >pictures: >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm >If you are interrested! > >Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 15:41:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HJfnIO017730 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:41:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJdT76010046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:39:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJdSlM000307; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:39:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJdOlM000155 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:39:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 351969 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:39:19 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:43:54 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] justeaucorps progress From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001701c394e2$ec0a17b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As so many others will write, Bjarne, it's simply wonderful. Can't wait to see the progress. LynnD On 10/17/03 12:14 PM, "Bjarne og Leif Drews" wrote: > Hi listmembers. > I hope not it is inconvenient to send to you, but if you would like to > follow my work on my new suit progress, then i have just uploaded new > pictures: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm > If you are interrested! > > Bjarne > > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 15:54:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HJs0IO017759 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:54:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJqT76011432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:52:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJqQlM011974; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:52:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJqNlM011922 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:52:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMX008HP2YKU6@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:47:59 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Delurking In-reply-to: <3F8F2AF4.8312.1AD47ED6@localhost> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031017124601.02984588@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <007b01c39460$b19243f0$0302a8c0@Isabeau> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:34 PM 10/16/2003 -0700, you wrote: >There was a "synthetic whalebone" which was discussed on this list in >the past. It was some sort of plastic from Germany. Farthingales carries the synth whalebone as well. http://www.farthingales.on.ca/plastic_bones.php It is the second item down. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 15:55:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HJt0IO017767 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:55:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJqr76011507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:52:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJqrlM012327; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:52:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJqQlM011973 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:52:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMX00MW6377U2@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:52:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:50:01 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer In-reply-to: <3F8F2CC9.21956.1ADBA940@localhost> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031017124946.0298dec0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031016220632.00b0c9d0@64.87.54.245> <000301c39466$7b175e90$6648ccd1@Kass> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:42 PM 10/16/2003 -0700, you wrote: >While I have several slides of them, I don't know which books they >came from. However, C.W. and Phillis Cunnington's _Handbook of >Sixteenth Century English Costume_ can give you a good idea of the >various varieties of sleeve in that time period. I've found pics of >most of them in scattered places (rarely in costuming books, >however.) I will have to see if I can find this book. Thanks! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 15:59:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HJxiIO017770 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:59:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJww76012133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:58:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJwuaU017495; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:58:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HJwraU017379 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:58:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 853941B2665 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:58:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (userweb.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 16995-07 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:58:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BB6701B25F0 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:58:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00d401c394e9$12aa7e40$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031017003723.0554d4d0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20031017102140.05623e90@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:58:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Don't forget, a farthingale can be a wonderful thing in hot weather. It holds your skirts out and away from your legs, allowing considerable air circulation! Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 1:26 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer > > >I am still amazed > >at the difference wearing a 100% linen shirt versus a 100% cotton shirt here > >in DC summers. > > I used to live in Tacoma Park, also Laurel. I don't think I could live > there again; not in the Summer anyway. But yes, I have discovered linen, > and have even learned to recognize it by touch in remnant bins and thrift > stores. > > >I wear jeans and long > >sleeves all summer long, even here in DC. Some folks don't understand why > >I'm not roasting. If you wear a type of garment all year, you adjust as the > >temperature goes up. And you can be comfortable. If you run around in > >T-shirts all the time, you may not be heat-adjusted to wearing heavier > >clothing at the same temperature. > > Good point. Maybe that other suggestion of going Italian Ren. makes sense, > because I don't usually wear more than that much cloth even in local Winter. > > >My > >husband, on the other hand, does not have the ability to heat-adjust, and is > >just miserable any time the temperature is over around 80 degrees. He was > >raised in Canada. > > And I was born in Oregon, so wet, overcast, gloomy weather doesn't bother > me (we don't tan, we rust). I don't own a raincoat, only umbrellas, > sweaters, and one leather biker-jacket. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 16:12:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HKCMIO017804 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:12:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HKB576013067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:11:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HKB3aU028333; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:11:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HKB0aU028310 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMX008Y13XXU6@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:09:13 -0700 From: Kimiko Small X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031017130710.0298dec0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [h-cost] Internet or mail order sources for hat supplies? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO With all this work for a gable hood, anyone have a good Internet or mail-order supplier of heavy Buckram and heavy milliner's wire? The stuff I can find locally seem rather skimpy/wimpy. Thanks Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 16:27:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HKRcIO017830 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:27:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HKLp76013927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:21:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HKLnaU007962; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:21:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from david.io.com (david.io.com [199.170.88.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HKLjaV007903 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:21:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by david.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9HKLTmC009569 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:21:29 -0500 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h9HKMs7C014336 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:22:54 -0500 Received: from 199.50.29.41 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:22:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <27256.199.50.29.41.1066422174.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:22:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Internet or mail order sources for hat supplies? From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031017130710.0298dec0@64.87.54.245> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031017130710.0298dec0@64.87.54.245> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try http://www.patternstudio.com/products/millinery/index.html, She has very good supplies at very reasonable prices. I have been told that her prices are some of the best this side of the atlantic. :) Chiara Kimiko Small said: > With all this work for a gable hood, anyone have a good Internet or > mail-order supplier of heavy Buckram and heavy milliner's wire? The > stuff I can find locally seem rather skimpy/wimpy. > > Thanks > > Kimiko > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 16:27:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HKRuIO017834 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:27:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HKRM76014331 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:27:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HKRLaU012760; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:27:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HKRHaU012588 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:27:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 352082 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:27:11 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:31:47 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Internet or mail order sources for hat supplies? From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031017130710.0298dec0@64.87.54.245> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko, Hats by Leko is good, quick. Order the double buckram. http://www.hatsupply.com/ Manny's in New York is good, although sometimes slow is sending small orders, but I don't have a website available and my catalog is at home, while I'm at work. Kimiko, I remember that you're in CA's central valley. I don't know if you can call Stone Mountain and Daughter here in Berkeley, but they usually have the double buckram and would probably mail order some for you. Ph: 510-845-6106. I'm pretty sure they have a website, but as I'm just a couple of miles from them, I haven't bothered getting it. For the last hat I made for a renaissance faire, I used two layers of double buckram steamed together for the brim. Take one layer, spray it down with water, layer the second on top at a 45 degree angle and steam until they're melted together. Leave until the buckram has cooled and dried. That brim's not going anywhere and will last all the hard use a faire puts a hat through. The man who taught us to do this actually uses three (!!!) layers for men's hats. Men's hats have to survive being taken off and put back on every time a woman or someone of a higher station walks up, and they're not usually as tidy with their accessories as women. (Personal note: Hi, Kimiko, I met you at Costume College this year in Darla's understructures for women class. We talked about Linda from Farthingales steel class.) LynnD On 10/17/03 1:09 PM, "Kimiko Small" wrote: > With all this work for a gable hood, anyone have a good Internet or > mail-order supplier of heavy Buckram and heavy milliner's wire? The stuff I > can find locally seem rather skimpy/wimpy. > > Thanks > > Kimiko > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 16:35:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HKZOIO017860 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:35:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HKXh76014819 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:33:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HKXgaU018061; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:33:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HKXdaU017951 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:33:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 352099 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:33:32 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:38:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Internet or mail order sources for hat supplies? From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <27256.199.50.29.41.1066422174.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I couldn't get her fabric page to open up. Is it just me? LynnD On 10/17/03 1:22 PM, "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" wrote: > Try http://www.patternstudio.com/products/millinery/index.html, > > She has very good supplies at very reasonable prices. I have been told > that her prices are some of the best this side of the atlantic. :) > > Chiara > > Kimiko Small said: >> With all this work for a gable hood, anyone have a good Internet or >> mail-order supplier of heavy Buckram and heavy milliner's wire? The >> stuff I can find locally seem rather skimpy/wimpy. >> >> Thanks >> >> Kimiko >> >> >> Kimiko Small >> Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother >> kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com >> "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell >> >> Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery >> http://www.costumegallery.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 16:42:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HKgZIO017888 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:42:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HKfm76015503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:41:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HKfiaU024832; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:41:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HKfeaU024717 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:41:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a230.in-tch.com [66.62.107.30]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9HKKq013571 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:20:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F905490.3F5FF929@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:44:00 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer References: <4.3.1.2.20031017003723.0554d4d0@mail.frys.com> <00d401c394e9$12aa7e40$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Also, you can build pockets on the interior surface of the farthingale, and put small reusable ice bags in there (the kind that don't melt). ;-D --sue's two pence worth Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > > Don't forget, a farthingale can be a wonderful thing in hot weather. It > holds your skirts out and away from your legs, allowing considerable air > circulation! > > Dianne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 1:26 PM > Subject: RE: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer > > > > > >I am still amazed > > >at the difference wearing a 100% linen shirt versus a 100% cotton shirt > here > > >in DC summers. > > > > I used to live in Tacoma Park, also Laurel. I don't think I could live > > there again; not in the Summer anyway. But yes, I have discovered linen, > > and have even learned to recognize it by touch in remnant bins and thrift > > stores. > > > > >I wear jeans and long > > >sleeves all summer long, even here in DC. Some folks don't understand > why > > >I'm not roasting. If you wear a type of garment all year, you adjust as > the > > >temperature goes up. And you can be comfortable. If you run around in > > >T-shirts all the time, you may not be heat-adjusted to wearing heavier > > >clothing at the same temperature. > > > > Good point. Maybe that other suggestion of going Italian Ren. makes > sense, > > because I don't usually wear more than that much cloth even in local > Winter. > > > > >My > > >husband, on the other hand, does not have the ability to heat-adjust, and > is > > >just miserable any time the temperature is over around 80 degrees. He was > > >raised in Canada. > > > > And I was born in Oregon, so wet, overcast, gloomy weather doesn't bother > > me (we don't tan, we rust). I don't own a raincoat, only umbrellas, > > sweaters, and one leather biker-jacket. > > > > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > > www.FunStuft.com > > > > //// \\\ > > ////-@@\\\ > > (((( 7 ))) > > ((( <> )))) > > ) (((((( > > /----\ /---\)) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 16:43:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HKhWIO017892 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:43:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HKgf76015591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:42:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HKgeaU025624; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:42:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from david.io.com (david.io.com [199.170.88.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HKgbaV025582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:42:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by david.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9HKgLmC009816 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:42:21 -0500 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h9HKhk7C003541 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:43:46 -0500 Received: from 199.50.29.41 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:43:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <48246.199.50.29.41.1066423426.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:43:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Internet or mail order sources for hat supplies? From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: In-Reply-To: References: <27256.199.50.29.41.1066422174.squirrel@webmail.io.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It could just be a glitch in the lines. I can see it. I can see: BUK001 Buckram $6.50/yd 60" wide, stiff Colors: white Minimum order - 1 yard. BUK002 Buckram (Crown) $12.00/yd 2-ply, very stiff, 44" wide Colors: white Minimum order - 1 yard. CRIN01 Crinoline $4.00/yd 39" wide Colors: white Minimum order - 1 yard. *Excellent if just a bit of extra stiffening is required VL09 Veiling $2.50/yd 9" wide Colors: diamond, white, black, navy, red, ivory, medium brown Minimum order - 1 yard. Specify color on order. VCD09 Veiling $3.50/yd 9" wide, diamond chenille dot Colors: ivory, white, black, red Minimum order - 1 yard. Specify color on order. IF005 Tim - Tex Interfacing $5.50/yd 1/2" x 22", v. stiff, non-woven, washable Colors: white Good for children's and adults' peaked caps and handbags. WC2501 Batting $3.00/yd 34" wide, Warm & White, low loft Colors: white Used to cover buckram frames. Minimum order - 1 yard. Lynn Downward said: > I couldn't get her fabric page to open up. Is it just me? > > LynnD > > On 10/17/03 1:22 PM, "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" > wrote: > >> Try http://www.patternstudio.com/products/millinery/index.html, >> >> She has very good supplies at very reasonable prices. I have been told >> that her prices are some of the best this side of the atlantic. :) >> >> Chiara >> >> Kimiko Small said: >>> With all this work for a gable hood, anyone have a good Internet or >>> mail-order supplier of heavy Buckram and heavy milliner's wire? The >>> stuff I can find locally seem rather skimpy/wimpy. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Kimiko >>> >>> >>> Kimiko Small >>> Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother >>> kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com >>> "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell >>> >>> Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery >>> http://www.costumegallery.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 17:06:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HL6gIO017967 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:06:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HL6076017689 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HL5w37015976; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:05:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from exchange.lynchburg.edu ([161.115.184.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HL5u37015949 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:05:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by exchange.lynchburg.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <40X2ZV5T>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:05:55 -0400 Message-ID: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA950F@exchange.lynchburg.edu> From: "Formo, Nathan" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:05:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [h-cost] RE: Pants Question Pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Agreed on Talia's point. As I mentioned I bought 2 bolts of a very light cotton at $1yd. It doesn't stretch so I know it will act the same way as my final fabric. Since I am trying to do most everything by trial and error right now I end up making one or two before I get the size right. But it all works out. I then have extra fabric for stuffing when needed. Why pay for material to stuff SandP's or gambesons when I can just save scraps from every sewing project and recycle them in instead? As for the original pattern attempt, there were several fitting runs before it was finalized. That's when we first found out some fitting problems and decided to add extra fabric to the pants. The catch was this. Nothing fit so badly that I knew it was obviously wrong. It just seemed a little snug. It wasn't until everything was finished that I how restrictive it really was. At that time to fit it I walked around and it was comfortable. Certainly nothing to be worried about. Now I know better and when I make my mock ups I do ballet and fencing moves in them. The seamstress did have a complaint that in the pattern the lengths didn't entirely match up with the measurements she took on me. I do not know details on that end but she said she had to modify and recut one or two pieces because if she cut them as the pattern said they would be too small. Now I am thin and tall so I've never had "standard sizes" fit comfortably on me anyway. If the pattern assumed sizes the way dress shirt and suit companies do then it would have been impossible for it to get my size correct anyway. But most importantly I learned from the experience. There may have been several mistakes on my part and the seamstresses. I wouldn't say don't buy anything because of my experience. Just be wary that it could happen to you. I'm now trying to do things by guess and estimates instead of patterns if I think I can do it. I'll mess up again but I'll keep trying to learn from it. Bjorn Arnaldsson > Talia wrote: > > > An excellent example of why one should always make a muslin before > > completing a garment. :) > > > > Yes, it is. However, if the pattern company tells you to cut > a certain > size based on your chest and waist measurements, and the resulting > garment is big enough to fit both you and your cat inside of > it -- or in > Nathan's case fit too tightly in too many places -- then there is a > problem with the pattern, not the person who made it. > > It's one thing to have to adjust a bust dart or lengthen for a long > torso, but to have to alter by entire sizes on the whole > pattern set is > too much, IMO. > > > Dawn > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 18:32:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HMWjIO018197 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:32:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HMUE76028192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:30:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HMU9bg025822; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:30:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HMU5bh025778 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:30:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9HMTx5H007479 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:30:09 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9HMTvYR007477 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:29:57 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:29:57 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310171829.57112.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 17 October 2003 09:00 am, Kate M Bunting wrote: > I don't think Teddy's on the list any more, Megan, but I can tell you > that the temperatures in the mid 90s F that we had in the UK in early > August were exceptional. I read that the record was 103 degrees in Kent. > "Eighty in the shade" is the classic British notion of a hot day - and > no doubt the average was cooler in the 16th century. Unfortunately for all of us, "exceptional" temperatures are becoming more common. I remember the first time I ever visited the UK in August 1990. As we were going through Customs at Heathrow Airport, I asked the clerk what the weather was like. He told me the temperature in London was "95." It turned out 1) he really meant 95 degrees Fahrenheit, and 2) he wasn't kidding. When I arrived in London, they were having the exact same weather we'd been having in Philadelphia the day I left--hot and humid. Moreover, the weather persisted through our entire week in London--I didn't encounter cooler temperatures until we finally took the train to Scotland. -- Cathy Raymond "Adult life seems to be a cross between a zen koan and a cattle stampede." --Ozy and Millie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 18:33:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HMXQIO018202 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:33:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HMVq76028464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:31:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HMVobg027310; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:31:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HMVlbg027210 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:31:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.5b.40233115 (16035) for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m14.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.130]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (v96.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID102-3ea33f906dca21a; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:31:38 -0400 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:31:38 -0400 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <308ACEEF.55203FAD.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Men's Costuming Book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I looked, but I couldn't find any info on the Men's costuming book that was recently discussed. (I must have deleted all the info.) Can someone send me the info. Thanks! Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 18:39:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HMdDIO018221 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:39:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HMcG76029540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:38:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HMcFbg003200; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:38:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav44.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HMcDbg003113 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:38:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:38:08 -0700 Received: from 66.131.9.61 by bay9-dav44.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 22:38:07 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.131.9.61] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA950E@exchange.lynchburg.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Pants Question - pattern Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:39:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Oct 2003 22:38:08.0063 (UTC) FILETIME=[5638A4F0:01C394FF] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Period Patterns 58 > Men's Elizabethan Garments Patterns Well... Period Patterns are not usually considered such good patterns. They're tricky to use and the layout is often confusing. I came out with nice things when using their patterns, but I'm not surprised you had trouble with it. > ((When I say short, without the flaps the bottom on the > back of the doublet is about 3 or 4 vertebre higher then where I normally > wear my pants at. Mundane or garb.)) Hm, if you wear your pants lower than your true waist, which is true of most people, then you'll always have gapping problems, no matter which pattern you use. Elizabethan pants are meant to be worn at your true waist. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 18:50:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HMo3IO018248 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:50:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HMn476001463 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:49:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HMn1bg011952; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HMmtbg011845 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:48:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AAdOw-0003Dh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:48:55 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:48:59 -0700 Message-ID: <005001c39500$db1ceb30$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031016201230.05b13bc0@mail.frys.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9HMmtbg011845 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a nifty little book about the sumptuary laws in Basel, Bern and Zurich. (Not exactly Germany, but pretty close!) Women were admonished for going about in nothing but their shift and an apron-not fined or dragged into court, just admonished. So, stripping down to a degree must have been acceptable. I don't know much about it, but I don't think they shared the Victorian mores which we have. The series "The History of Private Life" gives some insight. People lived in close quarters, shared beds with many, didn't have "bathrooms" per se. (If you look carefully in on of the Breughel (the younger) paintings you can see a man waiting patiently while his female partner squats in the middle of the road to tinkle.) I think we have to be really careful in applying our sensibilities to their circumstances. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 20:19:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9I0JGIO018405 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:19:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I0IZ76008798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:18:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I0IXvO012754; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:18:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I0IVvO012728 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:18:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMX00K3BFIU2W@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:18:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:13:56 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Internet or mail order sources for hat supplies? In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031017170251.00b094b0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031017130710.0298dec0@64.87.54.245> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:31 PM 10/17/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Hats by Leko is good, quick. Order the double buckram. >http://www.hatsupply.com/ Hi LynnD!! I remember you. :-) At Hats by Leko, I see Buckram, and Theatrical Buckram. Is the theatrical buckram also the double buckram? And thanks for the additional info on doubling the buckram. I was wondering how stiff it had to be, and I will be making my dh a hat for him as well, so knowing the buckram will have to be tripled is very helpful. He crushes his tam as it is. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 20:20:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9I0KNIO018408 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:20:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I0J676008832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:19:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I0J6vO012991; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:19:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I0IVvQ012728 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:18:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMX00K3BFIU2W@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:18:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:17:13 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Internet or mail order sources for hat supplies? In-reply-to: <27256.199.50.29.41.1066422174.squirrel@webmail.io.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031017171405.0296f358@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031017130710.0298dec0@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20031017130710.0298dec0@64.87.54.245> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:22 PM 10/17/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Try http://www.patternstudio.com/products/millinery/index.html, > >She has very good supplies at very reasonable prices. I have been told >that her prices are some of the best this side of the atlantic. :) > >Chiara Looks good so far. Minimum order is only $10, although with the extra buckram LynnD mentioned, I think I will be sending off for much more, and they have batting as well. Would the millinery batting be the same or similar to the batting used in quilting? Or would quilt batting be too fluffy? I have the Warm and Natural, and Hobbs Heirloom Premium cotton battings. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 20:20:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9I0KVIO018411 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:20:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I0JF76008846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:19:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I0JEvO013072; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:19:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I0IVvS012728 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:18:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMX00K3BFIU2W@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:18:02 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer In-reply-to: <3F905490.3F5FF929@in-tch.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031017171724.02963d40@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <4.3.1.2.20031017003723.0554d4d0@mail.frys.com> <00d401c394e9$12aa7e40$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:44 PM 10/17/2003 -0600, you wrote: >Also, you can build pockets on the interior surface of the farthingale, >and put small reusable ice bags in there (the kind that don't melt). ;-D >--sue's two pence worth oooohhhh, I like that idea. I have a few of those ice bags for the baby's formula, and he isn't going to be using it much longer. Thanks! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 20:45:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9I0jlIO018496 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:45:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I0j476010167 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:45:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I0j2vO026787; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:45:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I0iwvO026711 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:44:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1dd.12c374c9 (4312) for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:44:45 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1dd.12c374c9.2cc1e6fd@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:44:45 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Internet or mail order sources for hat supplies? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/17/2003 8:19:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kimiko@kimiko1.com writes: > http://www.hatsupply.com/ > Ooooo...some good undecorated straw hats here. Where can one find decorative straw edgings? Y'know, like looped straw "lace" to break up that straight edge of the brim. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 23:02:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9I32ZIO018707 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:02:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I31j76016161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:01:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I31h9l001958; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:01:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I31e9l001849 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:01:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a241.in-tch.com [66.62.107.41]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9I2er004675 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:40:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F90ADA1.EB4EB20C@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:04:01 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer References: <4.3.1.2.20031017003723.0554d4d0@mail.frys.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20031017171724.02963d40@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, you're welcome, although it's not an original from me. I first heard of it from a (SCA) Duchess who now lives in the Kingdom of the East. Apparently, one can quite demurely stand there, and sway one's skirts just enough to get a tidge of a breeze going, and the little ice packs make things nice and cool. --sue Kimiko Small wrote: > > At 02:44 PM 10/17/2003 -0600, you wrote: > >Also, you can build pockets on the interior surface of the farthingale, > >and put small reusable ice bags in there (the kind that don't melt). ;-D > >--sue's two pence worth > > oooohhhh, I like that idea. I have a few of those ice bags for the baby's > formula, and he isn't going to be using it much longer. > > Thanks! > > Kimiko > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 23:03:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9I33PIO018710 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:03:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I32976016183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:02:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I3289l002126; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:02:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I31q9l002027 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:01:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-67.75.177.76.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([67.75.177.76] helo=Dan) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AAhLj-00046m-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:01:52 -0400 Message-ID: <023501c39524$abb78c00$ddc54bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] You have the ear of Simplicity Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 22:05:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Re: >Wow. This sounds great for the SCA-garb-ers who've been looking for numbers like 9633 and 9650 (Big Men's Tudor and Elizabethan). Which reminds me, I'd like to see more of the men's patterns in general sizing up at least through a size 60 and/or 6X (standard range of men's "Big & Tall" stores). I know enough men who need larger sizes than that, mind you, but at least we'd have covered the equivalent of "plus size" for the men...< What about something similiar to Butterick. The minister/priest cassock and a couple of others are available "on request" to be ordered. Then they could keep the pattern in the books to be mail ordered or ordered online. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martha Kelly" To: "h-costume" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 10:58 AM Subject: [h-cost] You have the ear of Simplicity > You folks have overwhelmed me in the past couple of days. What a lot of > thoughtful suggestions. I wish I had time to respond to every one right > now, but I'm trying to meet a deadline and I have to stick to the cutting > table. > > I called my friend Betsy at Simplicity this morning. I'm not sure of her > exact title, but she's the in-house designer and head of the craft > department. She rides herd on all the free-lancers, too. I told her about > all the interesting input on h-costume and she wants to read the transcript. > Since she isn't a computer person, I'll have to sacrifice a few trees to > print it all out. > > Betsy and Abbie are the two people you should talk to about policy change if > you can possibly get to Thursday's chat. Requests will be more effective if > directly from you all and not filtered through me. > > The most wonderful person to deal with if you're looking for an out of print > pattern or a fabric you'd like to source - or just about anything - is Sue > Fleck. She's out in the Michigan office and I've never met her in person, > but she's great by e-mail. And please let her know if any of the sewing > directions are vague, confusing, or just plain wrong. Hopefully it can be > corrected in the next printing and her staff will be able to help people who > call in. > > Sue Fleck, > Consumer Relations Manager (Simplicity, New Look, Conso, Wrights) > Susan Fleck [SFleck@Simplicity.com] > Toll free line 888-588-2700 > > By the way, Betsy tells me they keep the patterns that have been pulled from > the catalogue out in Michigan and, as long as the supply holds out, they'll > gladly sell them. They don't have the ability to print on demand at this > time, so they have to crank up the huge presses to print a new run of > patterns. This, of course, they can't do unless they plan to reissue the > tissue. > > The sizing is always a fuss. I have a complete "official" size chart, not > just bust, waist, hips. I make a (Simplicity) size ten outfit to be > photographed and they grade up and down from my size ten pattern. I think if > people knew what exact measurements the pattern was meant to fit, they'd > have a better idea of how to alter it. I've mentioned this several times to > them and gotten no interest. Does anybody agree/disagree with me? I think > they could print a huge chart in the catalogue, or that little magazine they > sell in the spring so people could take it home with them. Would that help? > You know there's no hope of coming up with a highly shaped period bodice > that doesn't have to be fit in muslin to the actual person. > > Whew! And I said I had to stick to the cutting table. > > Martha > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 17 23:17:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9I3HMIO018735 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:17:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I3Gj76017142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:16:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I3Gh9l009702; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:16:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I3Ge9l009653 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:16:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a241.in-tch.com [66.62.107.41]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9I2tr010779 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:55:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F90B125.5915F028@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:19:01 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] German brick stitch References: <20031017.080141.1424.0.Cley@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The only one I know of, on-line, is this: http://home.earthlink.net/~wymarc/asoot/west.htm I've also got some "hard copy" stuff (i.e., a book I appropriated from an old, old roommate) that I could send you as well. It's not a hard stitch to do...Have you ever done any satin stitch? It's similar to that, only it's *counted* satin stitch. There's also a _TI_ article about it, which is where I first encountered the form. If you're interested in other types of medieval embroidery, there's a link at the bottom of the German page that takes you back to the Medieval Embroidery site that Mr. Wymarc maintains. --sue (embroidery geek masquerading as a costuming geek! ) Cynthia J Ley wrote: > > Greetings all. I was wondering if anyone had any links to a good German > brickstitch site. By good, I mean it discusses materials, has graphs and > patterns and recognizable directions. I've already read the Complete > Anachronist issue on the subject, and got hopelessly lost; it looked to > me like part of the instructions were missing, but that could be because > I'm not good at reading embroidery directions. ;) > > Any and all help hugely appreciated. > > Thanks, > Arlys (music geek) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 18 00:09:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9I49rIO018806 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 00:09:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I48I76019617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 22:08:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I48GSC003996; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 22:08:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20201.mail.yahoo.com (web20201.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9I48ESC003977 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 22:08:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031018040813.40702.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.179] by web20201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:08:13 EST Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:08:13 +1000 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200310170536.h9H5aIX4013522@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:50:09 -0700 > From: kat@grendal.rain.com > Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings > What evidently made Cypress different from other silk fabrics is that > it was mixed with the silk. > > The other form of cypress wasn't creped/crippens/etc but plain. It > referred to the way the thread was overtwisted. > > I agree that a fabric which was solely silk would be less crisp than > one which was intermixed with linen. Maybe that's why they started > doing it in the first place: to get a crisper silk. I'm sorry if I'm sounding a bit thick, but now I'm really confused! I thought "curled cypress" referred to a special weave of silk (ie crepe weave), not a fibre. So the sentence "what evidently made Cypress different from other silk fabrics is that it was mixed with the silk" isn't computing - are you saying cyprus was linen, which was then mixed with silk? Or are you saying that it was two types of silk interwoven? As fr as I'm aware cypress was a pure silk woven with overtwisted silk thread. As for obtaining a crisper silk, I would have thought that silk taffeta would fit the bill nicely as far as crispness goes. Bella http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 18 00:34:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9I4YOIO018841 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 00:34:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I4Xi76020636 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 22:33:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I4XhSC016321; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 22:33:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from berlinr.sprint.ca (berlinr.sprint.ca [209.5.194.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I4XfSC016302 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 22:33:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shooie ([149.99.69.97]) by berlinr.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031018043340.TJAR18383.berlinr.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 00:33:40 -0400 Message-ID: <010301c39530$ed3be480$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031016201230.05b13bc0@mail.frys.com><4.3.1.2.20031017003723.0554d4d0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20031017102926.05624850@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 00:33:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >I save my lovely warm European gowns for the fall and winter months when all > >of our events are indoors. > CarolynKayta wrote > At least you have a real Winter in which to wear these... ;) This close to > the San Francisco Bay, we don't. Heh, Winter has its own set of troubles, I have often been tempted to make a pair of polar bear trousers like the ones in the'Danish Textiles' book. ;-) Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 18 08:35:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ICZtIO025771 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 08:35:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ICZF76008260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:35:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ICZB7Y008467; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:35:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ICZ87Y008412 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:35:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (bgp380694bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.16.142]) by webwarren.com (8.12.9/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9ICYvdg026009 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 08:35:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031018083316.09e7b520@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 08:34:50 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: [h-cost] justeaucorps progress In-Reply-To: <200310172034.h9HKY0aV018335@net.indra.com> References: <200310172034.h9HKY0aV018335@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:14:43 +0200, "Bjarne og Leif Drews" wrote: >I hope not it is inconvenient to send to you, but if you would like to >follow my work on my new suit progress, then i have just uploaded new >pictures: >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm >If you are interrested! Bjarne, it is *never* inconvenient for us to see updates on your work. It is a *treat* for the eyes and for the "authenticity maven" in each of us! Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 18 09:20:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9IDK4IO025915 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:20:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9IDJO76009800 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 18 Oct 2003 07:19:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9IDJMTl026968; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 07:19:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9IDJKTl026936 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 07:19:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host81-129-118-205.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([81.129.118.205] helo=dan) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #23) id 1AAqzH-0003tf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:19:19 +0100 Message-ID: <023001c3957a$8ba4fbe0$cd768151@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:20:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Lettice X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, Sorry to take so long to comment on this but my email is doing very strange things at the moment, and since I keep going down with non-computer viruses I am not making much progress in sorting it all out. I did, however, look up my notes on fur types; lettice was the snow weasel, a much prized white fur somewhat cheaper than ermine. If you look at the zoom of the lady with a squirrel at: http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/cgi-bin/WebObjects.dll/CollectionPub lisher.woa/wa/work?workNumber=NG6540 you can see that the pelts are much smaller than one would expect from a rabbit. Actually, I'm not even sure if they had white rabbit during this period; someday I must try and find out. There is something of a joke with the red English squirrel frolicking near something which would have tried to take its throat out if it were still alive... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 18 09:37:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9IDbMIO025999 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:37:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9IDak76010911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 18 Oct 2003 07:36:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9IDagTl006935; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 07:36:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9IDaeTl006904 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 07:36:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip115.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.115]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C16546A4C2 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:31:35 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:36:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Message-ID: <3F90DF71.30678.236C93A@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20031018040813.40702.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200310170536.h9H5aIX4013522@net.indra.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'm sorry if I'm sounding a bit thick, but now I'm really confused! I > thought "curled cypress" referred to a special weave of silk (ie crepe > weave), not a fibre. So the sentence "what evidently made Cypress > different from other silk fabrics is that it was mixed with the silk" > isn't computing - are you saying cyprus was linen, which was then > mixed with silk? Or are you saying that it was two types of silk > interwoven? As fr as I'm aware cypress was a pure silk woven with > overtwisted silk thread. Cypress was a linen/silk blend. > As for obtaining a crisper silk, I would have thought that silk > taffeta would fit the bill nicely as far as crispness goes. Taffeta is a denser weave in the taffeta/faille/ottoman family where there is a tiny extra thick thread in parts of it to give it more body. (Albeit, it's usually so fine that you don't see the ridge usually.) But if you want your silk to be stiffer/crisper without going to a less transparent finished fabric, you might add the stiffer linen fibre to the blend so that you can obtain the transparency you wish. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 18 11:02:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9IF2SIO026233 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:02:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9IF1o76014250 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:01:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9IF1iSJ017204; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:01:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9IF1gSJ017152 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:01:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OhIgWqJSI6gMiyNYCJWXRuY=">; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 08:00:38 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JCSJFZ3A; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 08:00:38 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 07:32:28 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] justeaucorps progress Message-ID: <20031018.080017.1428.3.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9,11-12 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow, Bjarne, beautiful as always! Brenda writes: > Bjarne, it is *never* inconvenient for us to see updates on your > work. It > is a *treat* for the eyes and for the "authenticity maven" in each > of us! What she said! :D I have a question for you--what do you use to draw your patterns onto the fabric? Arlys, oohing and ahhing ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 18 21:35:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9J1Z6IO029632 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 21:35:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9J1Y576016129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:34:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9J1Wi5C015542; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:32:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from aardvark (aardvark.edurostream.com [12.17.11.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9J1Wg5C015535 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:32:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from D7W6QR21 (ddu138-85.xecu.net [216.127.138.85]) by aardvark.edurostream.com; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 21:32:55 -0400 Message-ID: <002b01c395e0$e0e087d0$558a7fd8@D7W6QR21> From: "Sue" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1dd.12c374c9.2cc1e6fd@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Internet or mail order sources for hat supplies? Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 21:32:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I carry decorative straw. Cordially, Sue Shatto 401 Fairview Ave Frederick, MD 21701 http:\\www.VictorianMillinery.com 301-694-8950 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Internet or mail order sources for hat supplies? > In a message dated 10/17/2003 8:19:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > kimiko@kimiko1.com writes: > > > http://www.hatsupply.com/ > > > > Ooooo...some good undecorated straw hats here. > > Where can one find decorative straw edgings? Y'know, like looped straw "lace" > to break up that straight edge of the brim. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 18 21:43:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9J1hBIO029644 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 21:43:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9J1e27O016312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:42:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9J1QH5C012799; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:26:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from aardvark (aardvark.edurostream.com [12.17.11.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9J1QE5C012768 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:26:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from D7W6QR21 (ddu138-85.xecu.net [216.127.138.85]) by aardvark.edurostream.com; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 21:26:26 -0400 Message-ID: <001201c395df$f9822f10$558a7fd8@D7W6QR21> From: "Sue" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031017130710.0298dec0@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Internet or mail order sources for hat supplies? Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 21:26:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I carry those supplies. Cordially, Sue Shatto 401 Fairview Ave Frederick, MD 21701 http:\\www.VictorianMillinery.com 301-694-8950 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 4:09 PM Subject: [h-cost] Internet or mail order sources for hat supplies? > With all this work for a gable hood, anyone have a good Internet or > mail-order supplier of heavy Buckram and heavy milliner's wire? The stuff I > can find locally seem rather skimpy/wimpy. > > Thanks > > Kimiko > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 19 00:34:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9J4Y3IO030030 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 00:34:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9J4XJ76023861 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 18 Oct 2003 22:33:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9J4XGC4002296; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 22:33:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav57.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.192]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9J4XDC4002244 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 22:33:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 21:33:08 -0700 Received: from 66.131.9.61 by bay9-dav57.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 04:33:07 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.131.9.61] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200310170536.h9H5aIX4013522@net.indra.com> <3F90DF71.30678.236C93A@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 00:34:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2003 04:33:08.0195 (UTC) FILETIME=[18809B30:01C395FA] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Talking of stockings... Where can I buy something suitable for Elizabethan times? Preferably wool? Thanks! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 19 05:53:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9J9r8IO006197 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 05:53:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9J9qW76006451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Oct 2003 03:52:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9J9qQSF006489; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 03:52:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9J9qNSF006467 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 03:52:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be8c.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.140]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C8DF05EE120 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:52:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001901c39626$dda3d090$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:53:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] bias binding X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear list. It is so quiet, no mails today, so i thoaght i wanted to share with you, Some of you perhaps know this all ready, but i was quite surprised to read Linda Baumgarden from Colonial Williamsburg, that in all the material she had gone trough, she has never found a binding where bias cut is used. This is for 18th century, but perhaps it was the same previously. I have always binded the tabs in my stays with bias cut strips. They simply considered this extravagant. Right now i am making another corset for a costumer, and this time i will try to use straight cut binding. I hate to bind the tabs, hate hate hate. as you know, and straight material must be even harder to make. GGGGGGGGGGGGggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!! I must admit, that i aught to read much more, to get informations, you learn all the time, dont you Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 19 06:00:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9JA02IO006209 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 06:00:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9J9xE76006744 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Oct 2003 03:59:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9J9xDN5009098; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 03:59:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.thibault.org [66.92.75.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9J9xAN6009063 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 03:59:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by sergyar.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h9JA7LPi025970 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 06:07:22 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by sergyar.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 06:07:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F926097.9050908@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 05:59:51 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] bias binding References: <001901c39626$dda3d090$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <001901c39626$dda3d090$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Linda Baumgarden from Colonial Williamsburg, that in all the material she > had gone trough, she has never found a binding where bias cut is used. > This is for 18th century, but perhaps it was the same previously. All I can add is that the Museum of London book shows straight-grain binding strips on the inside of necklines, not bias cut fabric; that's medieval, although I don't have the dates that were given. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Finally the SCA, Inc. is asking your opinion about membership payment issues and other things, in an easy online survey. Take it at http://www.sca.org/survey/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 19 10:45:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9JEj1IO011905 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:45:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JEgb76016891 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Oct 2003 08:42:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JEgUAp027784; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 08:42:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JEgSAp027745 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 08:42:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-237-231.client.attbi.com[12.246.237.231]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <200310191442230140072vsqe>; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:42:23 +0000 Message-ID: <3F92A2D4.9090403@fenris.net> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 07:42:28 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] bias binding References: <001901c39626$dda3d090$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <001901c39626$dda3d090$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Dear list. >It is so quiet, no mails today, so i thoaght i wanted to share with you, >Some of you perhaps know this all ready, but i was quite surprised to read >Linda Baumgarden from Colonial Williamsburg, that in all the material she >had gone trough, she has never found a binding where bias cut is used. >This is for 18th century, but perhaps it was the same previously. > > I thought that Drea Leed was very smart to bind her corset with leather, as was done for some historical corset (can't remember which right now). Leather is stretchy when you want and not when you don't. liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 19 11:02:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9JF20IO011948 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:02:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JF1M76017580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:01:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JF1L5j005400; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:01:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JF1J5j005393 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:01:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-171.75.228.246.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.228.246] helo=Dan) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ABF3X-00050g-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:01:19 -0400 Message-ID: <002501c39652$588c9a00$f6e44bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:04:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] Re: (h-cost] was: pattern wish list/shameless plug X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rima, Atlanta/Decatur April,2004, Palm Sunday weekend, Costume Con. Come play with us. ; > Genie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rima" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 5:41 PM Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list > >Ooh and the men's Regency stuff! You see the Georgian and > >Victorian sometimes but rarely the Regency. I have some gowns > >for myself, but have no idea how to do something for my > >husband.... not that we have anywhere to wear it now that we > >live in Atlanta... but still, I want it! > > > >Teena > > > OOOOOO and RESTORATION stuff! The only Restoration pattern I know > out there is Richard the Thread, and I didn't get great results with > it..... > > Guess I'll have to draft that one myself too.... unless someone knows > a pattern out there that can rescue me! > > Rima > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 19 11:52:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9JFpxIO012185 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:52:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JFp176019622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JFox5j025622; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:50:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JFov5j025609 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:50:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 16-140.tnt-3.harrisburg.supernet.com ([64.41.16.140] helo=[64.41.16.192]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ABFpZ-0000pt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:50:58 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200310172034.h9HKY1aW018354@net.indra.com> References: <200310172034.h9HKY1aW018354@net.indra.com> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:50:48 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] OT, sorta: Stripper pants X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi The Great Costume Holiday is fast approaching and I need a pattern for stripper pants (like Britteny Spears wears...) You who know me will be glad to know they are not for me ! But to sew a demented costume for a friend...So any hints, sources???? Thanks Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 19 11:58:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9JFw0IO012202 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:58:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JFv076019886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JFux9b027926; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:56:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JFuu9b027870 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:56:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a256.in-tch.com [66.62.107.56]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9JFa7017144 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:36:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F92B4D6.21228639@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:59:18 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings References: <200310170536.h9H5aIX4013522@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Historic Enterprises specializes in early stuff than 16th c. English, but I'd think their women's hose would still be appropriate. IIRC, they sell it in a variety of colors, in both linen and wool (I think). Here's the link: http://www.historicenterprises.com/ Oh, hey, and here's a bonus link, found while I was googling for the Historic Enterprises site (couldn't find my bookmark), and happened to type in "historical enterprises." This looks very promising....You can get a "virtual tour" that reads like a series of little articles. They seem pretty good, and I've not seen this site before, so I thought it worth passing on, especially since I (personally) haven't seen a whole lot (books or online stuff) that accesses German fashions. http://www.german-hosiery-museum.de/start.htm --sue Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > Talking of stockings... > > Where can I buy something suitable for Elizabethan times? Preferably wool? > > Thanks! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 19 12:04:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9JG40IO012232 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 12:04:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JG3C76020252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:03:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JG3B9b000411; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:03:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JG379b000348 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:03:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a256.in-tch.com [66.62.107.56]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9JFgI019385 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:42:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F92B64A.C58E3BD5@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:05:30 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Another interesting link... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Geez, I'm finding all kinds of things this morning, just from a mistyping! These guys are outside my normal (historical) time period, but I thought some of you might be interested.... http://www.colonialmarket.com/ Not very big, but some stuff I haven't seen before. --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 19 12:05:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9JG5nIO012239 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 12:05:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JG4l76020350 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:04:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JG4j9b001062; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:04:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JG4h9b001046 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:04:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip232.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.232]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E7A86A4F0 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 08:59:36 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:04:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] bias binding Message-ID: <3F925396.24070.139D937@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001901c39626$dda3d090$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > It is so quiet, no mails today, so i thoaght i wanted to share with > you, Some of you perhaps know this all ready, but i was quite > surprised to read Linda Baumgarden from Colonial Williamsburg, that in > all the material she had gone trough, she has never found a binding > where bias cut is used. This is for 18th century, but perhaps it was > the same previously. I have always binded the tabs in my stays with > bias cut strips. They simply considered this extravagant. Right now i > am making another corset for a costumer, and this time i will try to > use straight cut binding. I hate to bind the tabs, hate hate hate. as > you know, and straight material must be even harder to make. I think we all "hate" doing bindings. I still use bias a lot (because it comes pre-made and does go around corners more easily.) However, when I have done the straight binding it hasn't been as awful as I thought it would be. I just have to remember that I need it a little wider since straight bindings don't stretch like bias. And straight bindings are much easier to cut from the cabbage than bias so there is less waste. (I don't have to have fabric strictly meant for the bias. I can just use the cabbage/offcuts.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 19 12:09:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9JG9KIO012247 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 12:09:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JG8H76020574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:08:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JG8G9b002468; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:08:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JG8E9b002453 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:08:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-171.75.231.174.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.231.174] helo=Dan) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ABG6H-0008Nv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 12:08:13 -0400 Message-ID: <00d101c3965b$b1717920$f6e44bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F8E6E82.32766.17F46465@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Learning to sew was: Re: YET More on the Whole Big 3 PatternThing Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:11:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lynn, my daughter was 15/16 when she took the home ec/sewing. The teacher invited the mothers to help on a field trip to the local fabric stores. My one complaint, she did not encourage the girls to go for a beginners type pattern for their project. My daughter chose a pantsuit pattern that I would have thought twice about attempting. And, the fabric was a silk noile! She paid for it herself, and managed to finish the pants, but the rest is still in pieces in a bag somewhere. Genie ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 12:10 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Learning to sew was: Re: YET More on the Whole Big 3 PatternThing > > > Please don't think I'm being defensive here. My relationship with my > > daughter is fine except when I try to teach her anything - cooking, > > crochet, embroidery, sewing. They want to learn by within an hour we > > have to separate. I'm sure it's as much my teaching style as it is my > > daughter's independence and stubbornness. We get along great except > > for that. And she wants to sew and I want to teach her, but it just > > doesn't work. I want to get her into a basic sewing class and then > > answer her questions rather than try to sew something with her. > > LynnD > > Your experience with your daughter is not only typical but entirely > normal. Don't blame your teaching style. She's probably at the age > where she's trying to be an independent person as opposed to an > appendage of the family. > > It's actually much more unusual for teens and pre-teens to want to > have their mom teach them something. > > I think that this is at least partly because our society doesn't have > a standard "transition" for independence from the family. There are > so many options (marry, attend school to become a professional, go > directly into the work force or batten down on the parental units or > friends) that it makes it more difficult for the teen to feel the > best way to separate other than to rebel (even if it is in such a > minor way as not cooperating with parental teaching.) > > After she's been through a few sewing classes and had her > independence, she will appreciate your advice even more. As long as > the parent helps them to "escape the nest" rather than preventing its > occurrence, it doesn't take long for them to appreciate you. Before > too many years have passed you'll be working together on projects > where your interests in costuming coincide. > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 19 12:15:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9JGFwIO012262 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 12:15:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JGFJ76020899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:15:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JGFI9b005533; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:15:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JGFE9b005505 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:15:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net15sp36.directcon.net [209.79.209.36] (may be forged)) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h9JGFOW07318; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:15:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20031019091333.00fbb450@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:13:33 -0700 To: Historical Costume , From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] PATTERN STORAGE In-Reply-To: <48151.199.50.29.40.1066147581.squirrel@webmail.io.com> References: <3F8C1AEB.19BA4350@in-tch.com> <3F8B4FC4.3060201@thibault.org> <20894.199.50.29.40.1066142368.squirrel@webmail.io.com> <3F8C1AEB.19BA4350@in-tch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:06 AM 10/14/2003 -0500, Chiara wrote: >Nah, I bet I am only the tip of the iceberg of the who's who on this list. >Especially Margo. I bet that girl has hundreds of patterns just for >researching slopes! Margo? Umm, actually, no! I only have two banker's boxes full of patterns, many of them kept for sentimental reasons, like the collection of early 70's ones I found at a garage style which are duplicates of styles I sewed as a teenager. I do sometimes buy patterns for drafting reference, but my software is good enough I don't need to use a lot of paper patterns as reference. Back when I was doing bridal sewing, I had a large collection of many different pattern styles, in every possible size. It wasn't as expensive as you might think, becasue I worked at House of Fabrics, and it was my job to pull the discontinued patterns and throw them away. As my supervisor put it, "No, you're not allowed to keep them. You have to put them in a garbage bag and take it down that hall you walk through after work. It's supposed to go in the Dumpster but it might be full, in which case you have to put the bag on the floor next to the Dumpster, where anyone could grab it and take it to her car, and I would never know. " Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 19 16:37:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9JKbHIO012831 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 16:37:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JKaJ76004361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:36:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JKaGmu002005; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:36:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JKaBmu001910 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:36:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1ABKHa-000Dj2-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:36:11 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:19:06 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses, was V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition References: <3F8C4A38.13641.F96A180@localhost> <3F8CA3FD.85D61490@in-tch.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20031014184350.02f8c708@64.87.54.245> <3F8C4A38.13641.F96A180@localhost> <4.3.1.2.20031016002810.0560f230@mail.frys.com> <001a01c393d7$e8bfee10$64d2adcb@michaela> In-Reply-To: <001a01c393d7$e8bfee10$64d2adcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO michaela wrote >> I made my "turban" wrap around my head underneath, to hide my hair. The >> one in the illustration has visible edges next to the wearer's face. > >This is what I've been mulling over lately. I'd always thought of it as a >separate layer, as it does seem to form to the face. And caps and >headdresses of various times and places seem to involved much pinning of >separate pieces. > >I was wondering if there was a linen cap, then the striped silk piece >wrapped around the head and pinned with the gable hood on top of that, >pinned to the turban type wrap. The wrap would give much internal support, >and possible help hold up the back if long enough. Hair is all well and >good, but women did need their hair cut off on occasion, fevers for one, and >the sketch of Anne Bolyen (recently suggested it is her, I'm still not >convinced, there is another portrait I think shares her features, but I'm >not an expert;) ) shows a cap that doesn't seem to be holding a lot of hair >under it. > >PS, read both pages and this one: >http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/englishhood.html > >As I've been interested in them recently too. Actually the last bears a >striking similarity to the pattern in Evolution in Fashion. i must pull that >out to make a test... > >michaela >http://costumes.glittersweet.com > > Hi there, finally catching up with this thread. It's great to see different ways of making the gable appearing online. When I wrote my instructions it was literally just because there was nothing available, either online or in commercial patterns or costume books (not available to me at the time, anyway.) I did get to borrow a friend's instructions from Kentwell, which were much the same as the Ninya Mikhaila pattern. I don't know whether she was involved with Kentwell. I wasn't really convinced by that pattern, because it needed ties under the chin, and because of the kennel-shaped back piece to the coif, which (as Hope said elsewhere) doesn't really seem to fit with the box-shaped back. I get the impression this is a pattern that's been around a while and never been challenged - it would be interesting to find out its origin. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 19 16:38:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9JKcGIO012834 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 16:38:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JKau76004413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:36:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JKaumu002298; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:36:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JKaBmu001912 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:36:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1ABKHa-000Dj3-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:36:11 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:35:45 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses, was V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition References: <00ae01c391a2$45dbd470$75f5da0c@DT2JBTC21> <00f001c39291$3e4f3f40$0200a8c0@comcast.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20031014184350.02f8c708@64.87.54.245> <3F8D4511.7060304@uvm.edu> <3F9006C5.8030302@uvm.edu> In-Reply-To: <3F9006C5.8030302@uvm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hope Greeenberg wrote >Hi - > >Kimiko, thanks for bringing this subject up. It's time I started >thinking about this hat again. > >Jean wrote: > >> I found your different technique interesting, especially the way you >> manage to get the box at the back. My full frame was partly designed >> for robustness in transport, because an earlier version did end up a bit >> battered after a while. > >Oh boy, I know what you mean. This poor hat gets squashed into a box >that is really not quite big enough, but it has held up really well. >When it's squashed I just unsquash it and away we go. For the second >one I did put in one extra bit of boning across the top. We'll see if >that makes it better or worse. One thing I did notice after making it: >in the Holbein drawings, the back peak seems to be raised up a bit. >After dragging this hat around and squashing it numerous times it now >looks exactly like that in the back! > Jean catching up - Isn't it great when that happens, when you use or wear something and suddenly find it looks just right, when it didn't when it was new, or on the hanger? >> Am I reading your instructions for the tails right, that they are just >> sewn on the bottom edge of the box? The pictures I have seen of the >> back of a hood all seem to show seams across the diagonals of the box. >> Or is that something you were planning to tackle in the second version? >> > >Hmm...I did this quite awhile ago so I need to remember what I was >thinking at the time... >When I began planning this hat the only pattern I had was the one from >Hill&Bucknell. What is Hill&Bucknell? Is that the same pattern as the Ninya Mikhaila one? >It never seemed right to me because of two things: the Holbein back >view shows a perfect square, not the truncated square from that and >other patterns, and the Holbein drawings/paintings seem to indicate >that the hat is somewhat flexible and form fitting, sitting back from >the face. When I decided to try making one I decided to start from the >square back, then move forward, trying to determine which areas were >rigid and which were not. > The stiff areas seemed to be that square at the back and angles just >around the face, particularly at the chin level, but there seemed to be >much less rigidity across the top of the head. I also wanted to work >more from the drawings than from the portraits, assuming, based on most >critiques of Holbein's work, that the sketches were more likely what he >SAW, whereas the portraits are more about what he wanted to SAY about >the sitter. It wasn't until after I made this that I saw the wire >frames at MOL, but was happy that, though they don't tell us everything >we want to know about these hats (oh, why didn't 16th century people >have a better sense of what 21st century reenactors would want, and >save us some examples!), they at least didn't utterly contradict the >design I tried. > >Anyway, the idea to start with a box and carry that line forward, with >enough rigidity around the face to keep the bottom edges from splaying >out, was what I was after. That part worked out well, I think. The next >big question was the veil/tails. I decided not to worry about them too >much on the first hat. I decided to just cut and sew what I saw from >the "back view" image, then see if that provided clues as to how it >might actually have been done, afterward. Fair enough. I've always meant to go back and try something with the tails permanently sewn in, but I've kind of drifted away from that period. > I ended up doing a sort of origami covering of the box, with two >separate tails stitched on. This is not exactly how most of the other >drawings look, but the "back-view" drawing is a bit different from most >of the other drawings. I'm still thinking about this one. There are >plenty of 15th century examples of women wearing black headdresses >where the veil is shaped to the box-like back and then splays out from >there (I should add some of those to the site). The Holbein back view >definitely shows the tails extending at a 90 degree angle from the >bottom two sides of the box, and other drawings also seem to show the >same angle, though in several cases the tail is not tucked so tightly >against the edge. Hmm..that's not clear...I mean the back view tails >seem to be the width of each side of the box and emanate directly from >it, while others don't seem to be stitched directly to the bottom edges >of the box, rather, appear more loose. Oh, dear, I'm still not describing it well. > >On the sketches that have what might be seam lines, the line also seems >to extend at a 90 degree angle from that box bottom edge. Here: >http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/langdonpl34.jpg >http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/daunceydet.jpg >http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/parkerpl18.jpg >http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/ladysketch.jpg (maybe) >The end of the "tails" also seems to be rectangular on most of these. >So, for my next hat (one of these days!) I want to experiment with >using a rectangular or square fall, maybe cut in an upside-down L >shape, though that may not be necessary, and see where that takes me. > Hmm - I'm not sure if you thought from my post that I was commenting on the veil being in tails rather than the semi-circle I used. That wasn't my intention, I just meant I had always thought, if you were going to use separate tails, they were joined on the centre of the box, with triangular shaping, rather than being sewn to the edge of the box. But looking at "lady front and back" beside Lady Elyot, it is weird! You can see quite clearly on Lady Elyot's veil, that there is a quantity of fabric somehow folded round to form tails, and the front view of "lady front and back" looks just the same, but in the back view the tails look so flat, and there's the box added on the back. It's very strange. >The other big question mark is the "turban." I keep thinking that if >this was indeed a separate turban wrapped around the head it would lay >at such an angle that it would neither stand up and out from the head >as the drawings seem to show, nor would it fill in the angles of the >hat around the face in such a way as to make the stripes of the turban >appear to be directly at right angles to the inside hat edge. But maybe >I'm just envisioning the wrong kind of wrapping...And of course I >really like the way the back of this sort of interior hat band really >makes the hat fit well and sit securely on my head. > >So, lots of musing, sorry to drone on for so long. Thanks for the >opportunity to put some more thought into this hat. Maybe I'll actually >work on that second one some time soon! Then again, I also want to try >the French Hood. I have some strange ideas about that one, too, based >on French and Flemish paintings from the turn of the 15th/16th century. > >- Hope > It is good to think about this again, though I haven't time to do any experimenting just now (redecorating the hallway - seven panelled doors, with mouldings, and moulded doorframes, to strip and repaint!) Maybe Kimiko will come up with some new ideas for us? Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 19 16:38:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9JKcPIO012837 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 16:38:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JKb776004439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:37:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JKb6mu002389; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:37:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JKaBmu001911 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:36:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1ABKHa-000Dj1-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:36:11 +0100 Message-ID: <5pzo8tIj4uk$IwYX@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:03:47 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Henry VIII" on TV tonight References: <3F89D93C.5010406@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I thought you might all like to share this nicely understated review, from the Guardian, reported in the Herald's (Glasgow Herald) weekend roundup: "Cor blimey, it's Ray Winstone as serial marrier King 'Enery, wiv Helena Bonham Carter, speakin' proper like, as the Boleyn girl. Childlike, beefy and brutal, you would be looking at Winstone for some time before you were reminded of a polished Renaissance prince." Let me stress, this is NOT a BBC production (although it has to be said the Beeb has done some shockers in its time). It is commercial, ITV, so who knows who might buy it on your side. I tried www.itv.com, there may be more than just a synopsis to see, but I think it won't let me read the website right now because I should be watching the programme! Jean Cindy Abel wrote >Has anyone heard when this might show on this side of the pond, so we Yanks >might be able to see and critique the costumes? Nothing I like better than a >historical flick, where I can talk back to the TV concerning historical >accuracy visually and factually. BTW, was this a BBC production and is there >a website? > >According to Amazon.uk, there is a new biog of Anne Boleyn scheduled for >publication in 2004. No author given, though. > >Cindy Abel > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 19 18:44:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9JMi7IO013250 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:44:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JMhK76011490 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Oct 2003 16:43:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JMhCYb029993; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 16:43:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9JMh9Yb029923 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 16:43:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Ov6sGgV5STDz7K529IXXcVA=">; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 15:42:49 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JCVXA2AU; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 15:42:49 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 15:36:05 -0700 Message-ID: <20031019.154202.240.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-6,8-11 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: Cley@juno.com Subject: [h-cost] Word definition X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A friend of mine needs help with this word. Please reply privately to me at if you know. Thanks! Arlys > > I am in need of having a word defined in English. I am unable > to tell if this word is German or Dutch, since both languages (along with > > English) are in the book I'm trying to read. > > The word is "britsieren". The subject matter has to do with my > research on ailettes. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 19 19:51:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9JNpmIO013418 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:51:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JNp676015761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:51:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JNp4YZ000767; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:51:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9JNp1YZ000747 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ABNK6-0005GP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 16:50:58 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Word definition Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 16:51:08 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01c3969b$debecf50$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20031019.154202.240.0.Cley@juno.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Don't think it is German. But I'd like to know what it is and also ailettes! You might want to contact Bjarne. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 19 20:24:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9K0OHIO013492 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 20:24:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9K0LN76017534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:21:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9K0LLi8014166; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:21:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20203.mail.yahoo.com (web20203.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.58]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9K0LHi8014132 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:21:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031020002117.37426.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.179] by web20203.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:21:17 EST Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:21:17 +1000 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200310181800.h9II0cM8013652@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Curled Cypress (was hose/stockings) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:36:33 -0700 > From: kat@grendal.rain.com > Cypress was a linen/silk blend. Hi Kat, thanks for your continued efforts to help. Could you please tell me where this is written/verified as fact? I have found no such reference. Bella http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 19 21:39:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9K1dDIO013662 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:39:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9K1c376021319 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9K1bx1C014648; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:37:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9K1bv1C014633 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:37:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp11.pop1.net [209.102.125.61]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA04782 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:37:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp11.pop1.net [209.102.125.61] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <3F933C50.1060604@pcez.com> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:37:20 -0700 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Word definition References: <20031019.154202.240.0.Cley@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings Everyone, My kind friend, Arlys, didn't know I was on this List. Thanks, Arlys for the assistance. So if anyone has any ideas please let me know what "britsieren" is. Roscelin Cynthia J Ley wrote: >A friend of mine needs help with this word. Please reply privately to me at if you know. > >Thanks! >Arlys > > > >>> I am in need of having a word defined in English. I am unable to tell if this word is German or Dutch, since both languages (along with English) are in the book I'm trying to read. >>> The word is "britsieren". The subject matter has to do with my research on ailettes. >>> >>> > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 19 21:50:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9K1okIO013696 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:50:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9K1ni76022060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:49:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9K1nh1C019712; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:49:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9K1nf1C019706 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:49:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-46-062.jps.net ([209.165.46.62] helo=pavilion) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ABPAy-000043-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:49:41 -0700 Message-ID: <001601c396ad$06a9b640$3e2ea5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031020002117.37426.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curled Cypress (was hose/stockings) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:53:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cypress as a linen/silk blend can be found in Linthicum's book Costume in the Drama of Shakespeare and his Contemporaries. She used Minsheu's Guide unto Tongues from 1599 -"Gaca, a kind of silke stuffe lyke cypers" and Florio's dictionary, 1598 "Velitta, also a kind of fine lawne or cypresse." as references. Also from 1611 but not sure where, maybe Florio - "bauero, a stuffe made of raw silk as curled cipers." Cypress was a fabric from Cypress, and it came in a plain or crepe weave. If crepe, it was often called "crespe", "crespin" or "creppin". - (Florio 1598 for this reference.) Could also be called "curled cipers" vs. "plain cipers" One day I'll get around to paying attention to whether or not wool crepe existed, but I'm too tired for that now. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bella" To: Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 5:21 PM Subject: [h-cost] Curled Cypress (was hose/stockings) > > > Message: 5 > > Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:36:33 -0700 > > From: kat@grendal.rain.com > > > Cypress was a linen/silk blend. > > > Hi Kat, thanks for your continued efforts to help. Could you please tell me where this is > written/verified as fact? I have found no such reference. > > > > Bella > > http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals > New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 19 21:54:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9K1swIO013708 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:54:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9K1rY76022377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:53:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9K1rX1C021418; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:53:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9K1rV1C021391 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:53:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp11.pop1.net [209.102.125.61]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA05197 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:53:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp11.pop1.net [209.102.125.61] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <3F933FF3.5080101@pcez.com> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:52:51 -0700 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Word definition References: <000b01c3969b$debecf50$6501a8c0@SG01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings to you Saragrace and everyone else, I still haven't found out what the first word means, but I can tell you what "ailettes" are. An ailette (or wing) was a piece of heraldric "armor" that was worn on the shoulder of armor during the late 13th to mid 14th centuries. It is quite debateable if it was actually used as a protective piece or not. Probably not since most of the time they were mainly made out of stiff leather and wrapped with silk or parchment. The silk could either be painted or embroidered and the parchment was painted. I have found out that they were not just simply shaped in a rectangle, but also in the shape of circles, flower, and one in the shape of a cross. They were mainly worn by nobles, although, it is cited that sometimes the noble would have his whole army wear one with his heraldic device during combat. The ailette was usually worn on both shoulders displaying the wearer's heraldic device. Except for those nobles who were jousting, then the ailette would only be worn on the right shoulder, supposely because his shield (with his heraldric device) would be on his left side. If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask me. I've been working on this research paper for sometime now and plan on teaching it at one of the local SCA tourneys next season. Roscelin Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: >Don't think it is German. But I'd like to know what it is and also >ailettes! You might want to contact Bjarne. > >Sg > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 02:31:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9K6VtIO025957 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:31:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9K6Bd76006578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:11:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9K6BbSE013785; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:11:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9K6BYSE013762 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:11:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HN100L1XL7704@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:12:14 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses, was V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031019231000.02f75a08@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <3F9006C5.8030302@uvm.edu> <00ae01c391a2$45dbd470$75f5da0c@DT2JBTC21> <00f001c39291$3e4f3f40$0200a8c0@comcast.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20031014184350.02f8c708@64.87.54.245> <3F8D4511.7060304@uvm.edu> <3F9006C5.8030302@uvm.edu> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:35 PM 10/19/2003 +0100, you wrote: >Maybe Kimiko will come up with some new ideas for us? Well Jean, I can but try. It just will be a bit, after the gloves class is done, and definitely after this weekend's class in Japanese clothing. Boy has that one been an eye opener in many things, from clothing construction to natural dyeing techniques of the Japanese. It's with John Marshall, and I am just in heaven. Well, off to sleep. I have one more day of this class. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 06:36:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KAaUIO020600 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:36:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KAYr76015307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:34:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KAYp4P012261; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:34:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KAYm4P012244 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:34:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lynne-laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.86]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.comESMTP <20031020103447.OSGM16630.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@lynne-laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:34:47 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20031020113146.0245f288@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:34:15 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: RE: [h-cost] Interesting site In-Reply-To: <000b01c3969b$debecf50$6501a8c0@SG01> References: <20031019.154202.240.0.Cley@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-792B78CB; boundary="=======79CD2C7=======" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======79CD2C7======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-792B78CB; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here's a site you might like to look at, especially if you're particularly interested in the Regency. A colleague of mine, Candice Hern, regularly puts up collections of items on her website. She has fashion prints, vinaigrettes and other things. Take a look! http://www.candicehern.com/collections/index.htm Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE. VANESSA from Awe-Struck --=======79CD2C7======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-792B78CB Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 16/10/2003 --=======79CD2C7======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======79CD2C7=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 07:47:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KBl2IO020752 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:47:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KBkF76018240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 05:46:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KBkBQk008556; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 05:46:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KBk8Qk008545 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 05:46:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h9KBlGA08948.; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:47:16 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:46:07 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:45:32 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] wearing wool in a California Summer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think the objection to being seen in one's underwear before the 20th century had more to do with social status than perceived indecency. Working people might strip off their outer clothes for coolness, but people of any social pretensions would consider it beneath their dignity to be seen in public partially dressed. Eventually the blouse (US shirtwaist?) was invented and the man's shirt ceased to be thought of as underwear, so our perceptions gradually changed. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> saragrace@earthlink.net 10/17/03 11:48pm >>> I don't know much about it, but I don't think they shared the Victorian mores which we have. The series "The History of Private Life" gives some insight. People lived in close quarters, shared beds with many, didn't have "bathrooms" per se. (If you look carefully in on of the Breughel (the younger) paintings you can see a man waiting patiently while his female partner squats in the middle of the road to tinkle.) I think we have to be really careful in applying our sensibilities to their circumstances. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 07:54:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KBspIO020774 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:54:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KBrw76018452 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 05:53:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KBrwQk011520; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 05:53:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KBrtQk011506 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 05:53:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h9KBt3A09567.; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:55:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:53:54 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:53:29 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lettice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> Stevie wrote: > If you look at the zoom of the lady with a squirrel at: >http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/cgi-bin/WebObjects.dll/CollectionPub >lisher.woa/wa/work?workNumber=NG6540 >you can see that the pelts are much smaller than one would expect from >a rabbit. Actually, I'm not even sure if they had white rabbit during >this period; someday I must try and find out. There is something of a joke >with the red English squirrel frolicking near something which would >have tried to take its throat out if it were still alive... Actually, it looks to me like the dark continental squirrel rather than the red English variety (they're the same species, apparently). The lady is English, so perhaps Holbein just painted it the colour he was used to seeing at home in Germany? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 09:48:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KDmAOL001982 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:48:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KDeO76022938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:40:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KDeKgY025285; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:40:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KDeHgY025201 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:40:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m224.in-tch.com [216.166.191.224]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9KDJR016989 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:19:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F93E650.90116BC3@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:42:40 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor gable headdresses,was V&A 'Gothic: Art for England 1400-1547' exhibition References: <3F9006C5.8030302@uvm.edu> <00ae01c391a2$45dbd470$75f5da0c@DT2JBTC21> <00f001c39291$3e4f3f40$0200a8c0@comcast.net> <3F8D4511.7060304@uvm.edu><3F9006C5.8030302@uvm.edu> <5.2.1.1.0.20031019231000.02f75a08@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ooooh, that sounds wonderful! (I've got his book ;o) --sue, hoping you'll tell us more details after the class is over.... Kimiko Small wrote: > > It just will be a bit, after the gloves class is done, and definitely after > this weekend's class in Japanese clothing. Boy has that one been an eye > opener in many things, from clothing construction to natural dyeing > techniques of the Japanese. It's with John Marshall, and I am just in heaven. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 09:48:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KDmAON001982 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:48:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KDSt76022366 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:28:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KDSrgY019795; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:28:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KDSpgY019776 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:28:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])h9KDSn09017500 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:28:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031020092403.00b7c0c0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:28:52 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart In-Reply-To: <3F92B4D6.21228639@in-tch.com> References: <200310170536.h9H5aIX4013522@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] stocking bonus link... hmmmmm ? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey Sue... hi all... an interesting site, had a couple of pre 1650 archeological examples I hadn't seen. But also mis-identified a couple of naalbinded items as knit. And the drawings? sigh. I hope when they ever get the real thing built, they invest some more resources into their scholarship. Bridgette >This looks very promising....You can get a "virtual tour" that reads >like a series of little articles. They seem pretty good, and I've not >seen this site before, so I thought it worth passing on, especially >since I (personally) haven't seen a whole lot (books or online stuff) >that accesses German fashions. >http://www.german-hosiery-museum.de/start.htm >--sue Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 09:52:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KDmAOP001982 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:52:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KDBF76021334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:11:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KDBEgY011884; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:11:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KDBBgY011857 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:11:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.186]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:08:50 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:11:27 -0400 Message-ID: <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try here, Audrey: http://www.sykesutler.com/ Kass -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Audrey Bergeron-Morin Sent: 19 October 2003 12:35 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Talking of stockings... Where can I buy something suitable for Elizabethan times? Preferably wool? Thanks! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 09:52:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KDmAOR001982 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:52:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KDCW76021395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:12:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KDCWgY012461; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:12:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14002.mail.yahoo.com (web14002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9KDCUgY012446 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:12:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031020131229.68104.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:12:29 BST Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:12:29 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Word definition To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F933C50.1060604@pcez.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/penn002jees01/penn002jees01_003.htm Woorden die Vostaert nu en dan of een enkele keer gebruikt, doch Penninc nooit: amie, amours, amys, arriveeren, harnasc, asselgieren, bastaerdi, battaelge, benedien, bisant, bottelgier, britsieren, bruneeren, calandre, compagnie, confuus, conroet, contrarie, contreie, cornuut, corsier, crayeren, cufie, damosele, diverse, doblitse, exemple, faute, felloen, festeeren, frotsieren, ghisarme, grein, horeest, jaloers, jolijt, jolijs, jugieren, > Cynthia J Ley wrote: > > >A friend of mine needs help with this word. Please > reply privately to me at if you > know. > > > >Thanks! > >Arlys > > > > > > > >>> I am in need of having a word defined in > English. I am unable to tell if this word is > German or Dutch, since both languages (along with > English) are in the book I'm trying to read. > >>> The word is "britsieren". The subject matter > has to do with my research on ailettes. > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumeme@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 09:53:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KDmAOT001982 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:53:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KCs776020534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:54:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KCs5RT004521; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:54:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KCruRT004447 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:54:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.186]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:51:31 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] bias binding Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:54:06 -0400 Message-ID: <002001c39709$41e6cb10$ba6453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <001901c39626$dda3d090$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne wrote: <> Bjarne, there are a number of extant 18th century stays that have the edge bound in kid leather. I have used this and it is very easy to work with because the stretch is more controlled than a bias strip and yet more stretchy than strips cut on the straight. Give it a try sometimes. Maybe you'll like it. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 09:53:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KDrvOL002116 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:53:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KDr276023923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KDr1gY002375; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KDqwgY002298 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:52:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0509.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.254]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E607E19FBC3 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:52:52 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F93E9D6.5010706@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:57:42 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Word definition References: <20031019.154202.240.0.Cley@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/penn002jees01/penn002jees01_010.htm britsieren, meerv. v. britsiere = vest, kledingstuk onder de wapenrok, 10615 I'll try to translate it. Plural of britsiere=vest, Piece of clothing worn underneed a millitary coat Hope this helps Greetings, Deredere Cynthia J Ley wrote: >A friend of mine needs help with this word. Please reply privately to me >at if you know. > >Thanks! >Arlys > > > >>> I am in need of having a word defined in English. I am unable >>> >>> >>to tell if this word is German or Dutch, since both languages (along >> >> >with > > >>>English) are in the book I'm trying to read. >>> The word is "britsieren". The subject matter has to do with my >>> >>> >>research on ailettes. >> >> > > >________________________________________________________________ >The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! >Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! >Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 09:54:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KDmAOV001982 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:54:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KCGE76019283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:16:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KCGDRT020204; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:16:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KCGART020179 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:16:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.101] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A0BEF1EE00E0; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:10:38 -0400 Message-ID: <001d01c39704$953a5fc0$655183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F925396.24070.139D937@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] bias binding Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:20:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Did this again this weekend and my 'cabbage piece' was only about a 12" square. had to piece it a lot of course but got a strip about a yard plus. It was just enough for the project! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] bias binding > > > It is so quiet, no mails today, so i thoaght i wanted to share with > > you, Some of you perhaps know this all ready, but i was quite > > surprised to read Linda Baumgarden from Colonial Williamsburg, that in > > all the material she had gone trough, she has never found a binding > > where bias cut is used. This is for 18th century, but perhaps it was > > the same previously. I have always binded the tabs in my stays with > > bias cut strips. They simply considered this extravagant. Right now i > > am making another corset for a costumer, and this time i will try to > > use straight cut binding. I hate to bind the tabs, hate hate hate. as > > you know, and straight material must be even harder to make. > > I think we all "hate" doing bindings. I still use bias a lot (because > it comes pre-made and does go around corners more easily.) > > However, when I have done the straight binding it hasn't been as > awful as I thought it would be. I just have to remember that I need > it a little wider since straight bindings don't stretch like bias. > > And straight bindings are much easier to cut from the cabbage than > bias so there is less waste. (I don't have to have fabric strictly > meant for the bias. I can just use the cabbage/offcuts.) > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 09:56:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KDukOL002124 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:56:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KDt876024050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:55:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KDt6sA003436; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:55:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KDt4sA003384 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:55:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])h9KDt209013868 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:55:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031020094658.00b81c48@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:55:06 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] German brick stitch In-Reply-To: <3F90B125.5915F028@in-tch.com> References: <20031017.080141.1424.0.Cley@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi folks... I had always heard it called "goblein" or "gobelin" work. It does use a 'brick stitch' variation. So here are some resources, not quite sure it's what you are looking for.... http://needlepoint.about.com/library/weekly/bl2-111697.htm http://www.needlework.com/pattseries3pats/nw3-12.html http://www.needlework.com/pattseries1pats/patts1stitch16.html http://needlepoint.about.com/library/index/blstitchguide.htm http://www.needlepointnow.com/OnLineClassroom/ACSK-4/Stitches.htm Some of these should help you out. Bridgette > > Greetings all. I was wondering if anyone had any links to a good German > > brickstitch site. By good, I mean it discusses materials, has graphs and > > patterns and recognizable directions. I've already read the Complete > > Anachronist issue on the subject, and got hopelessly lost; it looked to > > me like part of the instructions were missing, but that could be because > > I'm not good at reading embroidery directions. ;) > > > > Any and all help hugely appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > Arlys (music geek) >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 10:08:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KE8nOL002162 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:08:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KDig76023386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:44:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KDifgY027914; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:44:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KDidgY027797 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:44:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m224.in-tch.com [216.166.191.224]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9KDNn018770 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:23:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F93E755.3FAAACB1@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:47:01 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] stocking bonus link... hmmmmm ? References: <200310170536.h9H5aIX4013522@net.indra.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20031020092403.00b7c0c0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for pointing that out! I just happened to see that link by chance, and didn't spend a lot of time exploring the actual site. It's kinda weird, isn't it, to find that you may know more about an item than the museum does? I'd always thought museums knew *everything*, until I got into more serious studying/recreation stuff. --sue M Stewart wrote: > > Hey Sue... hi all... > > an interesting site, had a couple of pre 1650 archeological examples I > hadn't seen. But also mis-identified a couple of naalbinded items as > knit. And the drawings? sigh. I hope when they ever get the real > thing built, they invest some more resources into their scholarship. > > Bridgette > > >This looks very promising....You can get a "virtual tour" that reads > >like a series of little articles. They seem pretty good, and I've not > >seen this site before, so I thought it worth passing on, especially > >since I (personally) haven't seen a whole lot (books or online stuff) > >that accesses German fashions. > >http://www.german-hosiery-museum.de/start.htm > >--sue > > Mari Stewart > Cornell University > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 11:34:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KFYwOL002587 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:34:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KFXV76002171 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:33:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KFXQZs013690; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:33:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KFWpZs013184 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:32:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip43.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.43]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96F656DB6D for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:32:49 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:32:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curled Cypress (was hose/stockings) Message-ID: <3F939DB3.7631.6435965@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20031020002117.37426.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200310181800.h9II0cM8013652@net.indra.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Cypress was a linen/silk blend. > Hi Kat, thanks for your continued efforts to help. Could you please > tell me where this is written/verified as fact? I have found no such > reference. I've seen it referenced in several textile history books. However, it's definitely in the Linthicum book I mentioned. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 11:38:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KFceOL002595 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:38:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KFb976002513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:37:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KFb8Zs016835; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:37:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KFb3Zs016781 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:37:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip43.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.43]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3C176A63D for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:31:54 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:37:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lettice Message-ID: <3F939EB0.22603.647361B@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Actually, it looks to me like the dark continental squirrel rather > than the red English variety (they're the same species, apparently). > The lady is English, so perhaps Holbein just painted it the colour he > was used to seeing at home in Germany? Unless he was just using it for iconography, it may have been a pet. Although I can't remember where, I've read that squirrels were sometimes kept as pets. In that case it may have been an imported squirrel. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 12:09:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KG9dOL006864 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:09:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KG8l76006038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:08:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KG8hwZ014470; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:08:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from exchange.lynchburg.edu ([161.115.184.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KG8ewZ014409 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:08:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by exchange.lynchburg.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <40X25BXF>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:08:39 -0400 Message-ID: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA9514@exchange.lynchburg.edu> From: "Formo, Nathan" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:08:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [h-cost] RE: Pants Question - Pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've seen this mentioned somewhere else before. Okay for a complete newbie to sewing, what is the "true waist"? Being thin and boney anything belted or tied will slide down until it rests on my hip bones. I've been considering adding ties onto the inside of my doublet that I could easily lace the pants to, to keep them higher. Currently I'm using the pants tied with a ribbon, overlapped by the bottom of the doublet, with a thick belt on top of it all. I had been told that was the period style, that the pants were fitted and not directly attached to a belt or drawstring. Unfortunatly as I mentioned I need that tie around the waist because the belt won't hold the pants up that off my hips. After walking around awhile the belt itself will eventually lower a little itself. Ties inside the doublet to keep the pants up would work but it seems like it would be awkward to have to open the doublet everytime I wanted to adjust it. Maybe I could add ties between the lower flaps on the doublet. (I know they have a name and it's still buggin me I can't remember it.) It wouldn't be noticeable, it would keep the pants a little higher, and could be potentially covered up by the belt anyway..... I have pics from the dance event I did this weekend in costume. Once I get them scanned this afternoon I'll post the ones with the best view of the entire outfit. Just to let everyone else see what they've been helping me with. Bjorn Arnaldsson > > Period Patterns 58 > > Men's Elizabethan Garments Patterns > > Well... Period Patterns are not usually considered such good patterns. > They're tricky to use and the layout is often confusing. I > came out with > nice things when using their patterns, but I'm not surprised > you had trouble > with it. > > > ((When I say short, without the flaps the bottom on the > > back of the doublet is about 3 or 4 vertebre higher then > where I normally > > wear my pants at. Mundane or garb.)) > > Hm, if you wear your pants lower than your true waist, which > is true of most > people, then you'll always have gapping problems, no matter > which pattern > you use. Elizabethan pants are meant to be worn at your true waist. > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 12:16:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KGG9OL006873 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:16:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KGFC76006919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:15:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KGFBwZ019875; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:15:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KGF8wZ019783 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:15:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 354799 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:15:03 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:19:40 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Internet or mail order sources for hat supplies? From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031017170251.00b094b0@64.87.54.245> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9KGF8wZ019783 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko, the theatrical buckram is indeed the double buckram. That's why we're on h-costume - to share all the good stuff and commiserate and offer suggestions when it doesn't go well. I learned this from a guy who works in Hollywood, Jeff Shoenberg, who also has taught classes at Costume College (felt hats, Abusing Feathers, Safety for Costumers, etc.). Last year he came up and taught a small group how to make an Elizabethan hat over a period of six weeks - tall hats, attifettes, french hoods. They all turned out great! He gave us that hint and my hat brim is perfect; it doesn't bend, it doesn¹t go Anywhere! Lynn On 10/17/03 5:13 PM, "Kimiko Small" wrote: > At 01:31 PM 10/17/2003 -0700, you wrote: >> Hats by Leko is good, quick. Order the double buckram. >> http://www.hatsupply.com/ > > > Hi LynnD!! > > I remember you. :-) > > At Hats by Leko, I see Buckram, and Theatrical Buckram. Is the theatrical > buckram also the double buckram? > > And thanks for the additional info on doubling the buckram. I was wondering > how stiff it had to be, and I will be making my dh a hat for him as well, > so knowing the buckram will have to be tripled is very helpful. He crushes > his tam as it is. > > Kimiko > > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 12:20:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KGKwOL006885 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:20:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KGJt76007440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:19:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KGJswZ023816; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:19:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KGJowZ023687 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:19:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 354828 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:19:45 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:24:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Internet or mail order sources for hat supplies? From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031017171405.0296f358@64.87.54.245> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know what she sells, but a flannelette is what we used the first time I took a hat class. It's soft without being bulky. I've also been taught to use something called french fleece, but it's really hard to find and about $12/yard, although it does stretch. Like anything else, you use what you need to give you the look you want. If you want a sharp shape, regular quilting batting won't work. I don't know what kind of millinery batting she's using, but maybe she has the french fleece. It's also used in tailoring for men's suits, especially in the shoulders and chest. Lynn On 10/17/03 5:17 PM, "Kimiko Small" wrote: > At 03:22 PM 10/17/2003 -0500, you wrote: >> Try http://www.patternstudio.com/products/millinery/index.html, >> >> She has very good supplies at very reasonable prices. I have been told >> that her prices are some of the best this side of the atlantic. :) >> >> Chiara > > > Looks good so far. Minimum order is only $10, although with the extra > buckram LynnD mentioned, I think I will be sending off for much more, and > they have batting as well. > > Would the millinery batting be the same or similar to the batting used in > quilting? Or would quilt batting be too fluffy? I have the Warm and > Natural, and Hobbs Heirloom Premium cotton battings. > > Kimiko > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 12:39:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KGdZOL006919 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:39:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KGc476009277 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:38:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KGc1wZ009741; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KGbuwZ009683 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:37:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip176.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.176]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACB9B6A76E for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:37:54 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:37:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Pants Question - Pattern Message-ID: <3F93ACF3.19699.67EEBC3@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA9514@exchange.lynchburg.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I've been considering adding ties onto the inside of my doublet that I > could easily lace the pants to, to keep them higher. In most periods where they used a doublet, men's breeches were tied directly to the doublet at the lower edge. In extant garments you can find the eyelets for doing this either directly on the bottom of the garment or in a separate lacing strip applied to the wrong side of the lower edge of the doublet. (See, for instance, Janet Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620_.) If doing very active work (like executioners) you see in the paintings and manuscripts that they let them go and just have droopy drawers with the shirts hanging out. But the lacing is still quite visible and I suspect that they would have put themselves back together again soon after. (Except the drunkards, who seem to sit around with things all kattywompus anyway.) (Try looking at Ruth Matilda Anderson's _Hispanic Costuming_ for some clearer ideas of what I'm describing.) > After walking around awhile the belt itself will eventually > lower a little itself. Ties inside the doublet to keep the pants up > would work but it seems like it would be awkward to have to open the > doublet everytime I wanted to adjust it. >From what I can tell, belts were more of an accessory or something to hang your sword or moneybag (ie purse) on than to hold up one's breeches. They were usually not put on in such a way that they would perform that sort of task. > Maybe I could add ties between the lower flaps on the doublet. (I know > they have a name and it's still buggin me I can't remember it.) It > wouldn't be noticeable, it would keep the pants a little higher, and > could be potentially covered up by the belt anyway..... Do you mean the skirts of the doublet (which often hid the lacing strip) or added pickadils (which could do the same thing). What time period exactly are you doing? It sounds like you are doing some sort of Elizabethan. Perhaps people could send you some URLs which would help you to see what I am describing if you can't get the books I've mentioned. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 12:42:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KGg8OL006924 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:42:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KGeQ76009561 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:40:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KGeOwZ011771; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:40:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from solomon.io.com (solomon.io.com [199.170.88.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KGeLwa011726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:40:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by solomon.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9KGgJ2Z021587 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:42:20 -0500 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h9KGdl7C019875 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:39:56 -0500 Received: from 199.50.29.41 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:39:56 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <31892.199.50.29.41.1066667996.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:39:56 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Internet or mail order sources for hat supplies? From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031017171405.0296f358@64.87.54.245> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko, I would go with Lynn's recommendations as I only deal with the pattern studio glove wise when I have no other way of getting what I need supply wise and all my driving distance suppliers is tapped. She is my savior sometimes. :) The other hat maker on this list would be Catalina, our resident spanish costumer. I saw her last round of hats at an event recently and just died! This little italian girl is now honestly thinking to going spanish, that is how much her hats inspired me. Hey, I am 1/4 spanish ... I think ... South American ancestry counts right? ;) Chiara Lynn Downward said: > I don't know what she sells, but a flannelette is what we used the first > time I took a hat class. It's soft without being bulky. I've also been > taught to use something called french fleece, but it's really hard to > find and about $12/yard, although it does stretch. Like anything else, > you use what you need to give you the look you want. If you want a > sharp shape, regular quilting batting won't work. I don't know what kind > of millinery batting she's using, but maybe she has the french fleece. > It's also used in tailoring for men's suits, especially in the shoulders > and chest. > > Lynn > > On 10/17/03 5:17 PM, "Kimiko Small" wrote: > >> At 03:22 PM 10/17/2003 -0500, you wrote: >>> Try http://www.patternstudio.com/products/millinery/index.html, >>> >>> She has very good supplies at very reasonable prices. I have been >>> told that her prices are some of the best this side of the atlantic. >>> :) >>> >>> Chiara >> >> >> Looks good so far. Minimum order is only $10, although with the extra >> buckram LynnD mentioned, I think I will be sending off for much more, >> and they have batting as well. >> >> Would the millinery batting be the same or similar to the batting used >> in quilting? Or would quilt batting be too fluffy? I have the Warm and >> Natural, and Hobbs Heirloom Premium cotton battings. >> >> Kimiko >> >> >> Kimiko Small >> Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother >> kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com >> "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell >> >> Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery >> http://www.costumegallery.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 14:51:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KIpiOL007211 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:51:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KIoV76022434 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:50:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KIoLrr006233; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:50:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KIoIrr006189 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:50:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www22.ureach.com (www22.ureach.com [172.16.2.50]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04573 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:50:17 -0400 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by www22.ureach.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA22131; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:50:17 -0400 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:50:17 -0400 Message-Id: <200310201850.OAA22131@www22.ureach.com> Received: from [68.154.3.40] by www22.ureach.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:50:17 GMT To: "Chiara" From: Teena Kessinger Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS request Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-vsuite-type: e X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I bought the proceedings on CD and though I haven't yet had a chance to check it out, if the notes are on it I will gladly email them to you. Teena ---- On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Chiara (chiara@io.com) wrote: > I would like to know if someone going to the Costume symposium that will > be taking the glove class could please grab an extra set of notes and > everything for me. I will reinburse you any costs for them. Please contact > me asap. I have made several requests of local folks that are going but no > one has responded. I am heart broken that I am not going to be able to go > so please, if you can, help. > > Chiara > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 14:54:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KIs7OL007214 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:54:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KIqt76022662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:52:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KIqsrr008322; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:52:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KIqprr008239 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:52:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f4a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.74]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E9F195EE122 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:52:47 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000c01c3973b$a80154b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F925396.24070.139D937@localhost> <001d01c39704$953a5fc0$655183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] bias binding Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:54:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Kat. Yes you are right, it is not as difficult as i thoaght it might be. I simply whipstitch the binding to the tabs on the backside, and then i turn and fold, and use some other stitches, wich i dont know what is called in english, to make a nice front. I am making this corset in silk taffeta, and it is very hard to stitch in, but it goes, all right. I think it would be much easyer to stitch in linen. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] bias binding > Did this again this weekend and my 'cabbage piece' was only about a 12" > square. had to piece it a lot of course but got a strip about a yard plus. > It was just enough for the project! > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 12:04 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] bias binding > > > > > > > It is so quiet, no mails today, so i thoaght i wanted to share with > > > you, Some of you perhaps know this all ready, but i was quite > > > surprised to read Linda Baumgarden from Colonial Williamsburg, that in > > > all the material she had gone trough, she has never found a binding > > > where bias cut is used. This is for 18th century, but perhaps it was > > > the same previously. I have always binded the tabs in my stays with > > > bias cut strips. They simply considered this extravagant. Right now i > > > am making another corset for a costumer, and this time i will try to > > > use straight cut binding. I hate to bind the tabs, hate hate hate. as > > > you know, and straight material must be even harder to make. > > > > I think we all "hate" doing bindings. I still use bias a lot (because > > it comes pre-made and does go around corners more easily.) > > > > However, when I have done the straight binding it hasn't been as > > awful as I thought it would be. I just have to remember that I need > > it a little wider since straight bindings don't stretch like bias. > > > > And straight bindings are much easier to cut from the cabbage than > > bias so there is less waste. (I don't have to have fabric strictly > > meant for the bias. I can just use the cabbage/offcuts.) > > > > Kat > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 15:38:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KJcJOL007317 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:38:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KJb276026953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KJawVs017142; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:36:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KJasVs017083 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:36:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www22.ureach.com (www22.ureach.com [172.16.2.50]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA09682 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:36:53 -0400 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by www22.ureach.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA23774; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:36:53 -0400 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:36:53 -0400 Message-Id: <200310201936.PAA23774@www22.ureach.com> Received: from [68.154.3.40] by www22.ureach.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:36:53 GMT To: "Lynne Connolly" From: Teena Kessinger Subject: Re: RE: [h-cost] Interesting site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-vsuite-type: e X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ooooohhhhh! Thank you for posting the link! I *love* the Regency period and regularly mourn the lack of groups in my area. ---- On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Lynne Connolly (lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com) wrote: > Here's a site you might like to look at, especially if you're particularly > interested in the Regency. > A colleague of mine, Candice Hern, regularly puts up collections of items > on her website. She has fashion prints, vinaigrettes and other things. Take > a look! > http://www.candicehern.com/collections/index.htm > > > Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT > Award winning Historical Romance author. > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ > The Richard and Rose books from > Novelbooks Inc. > YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE. VANESSA from > Awe-Struck > > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 16/10/2003 > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 15:53:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KJrAOL007344 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:53:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KJp976028205 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:51:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KJp3Vs028898; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:51:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14005.mail.yahoo.com (web14005.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9KJp1Vs028845 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031020195100.80410.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:51:00 BST Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:51:00 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] OT-wedding dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A friend of a friend has asked me for ideas on how to dress up a very plain wedding dress. I suggested beads, ribbons, applique type things. Does anyone have a good photo of some beaded lace or some such that I can send her? i would appreciate the help. ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 15:55:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KJt6OL007359 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:55:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KJrk76028472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:53:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KJrhVs001341; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:53:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav27.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KJreVs001216 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:53:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:53:35 -0700 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav27.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:53:34 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA9514@exchange.lynchburg.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Pants Question - Pattern Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:55:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Oct 2003 19:53:35.0205 (UTC) FILETIME=[D8C75150:01C39743] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I've seen this mentioned somewhere else before. Okay for a complete newbie > to sewing, what is the "true waist"? Being thin and boney anything belted > or tied will slide down until it rests on my hip bones. I have absolutely no experience with men's bodies, but on a woman it's easier to see, unless she is overweight... The true waist would be a couple of inches above the hip bone, where the waist is more narrow. Think the narrowest point of a hourglass. It's the same thing for a man, but since they don't have hips it's not quite as easy to see. A trick that is used sometimes is to tie a string to your waist and move from side to side and twist around, the rope should settle at your true waist. Of course, it won't work with everyone. The true waist is much higher than we wear our pants nowadays, because current fashion is low-waisted. My own waist is about the same height as my belly button, but don't take this as an absolute guide, it might vary from person to person. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 16:01:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KK1lOL007398 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:01:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KK0U76029061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:00:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KK0RKJ007497; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:00:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from solomon.io.com (solomon.io.com [199.170.88.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KK0MKK007405 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:00:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by solomon.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9KK2L2Z024415 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:02:22 -0500 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h9KJxo7C031179 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:59:59 -0500 Received: from 199.50.29.42 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:59:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33782.199.50.29.42.1066679999.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:59:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS request From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: In-Reply-To: <200310201850.OAA22131@www22.ureach.com> References: <200310201850.OAA22131@www22.ureach.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks! :) Teena Kessinger said: > I bought the proceedings on CD and though I haven't yet had a > chance to check it out, if the notes are on it I will gladly > email them to you. > > Teena > > > > > > ---- On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Chiara (chiara@io.com) wrote: > >> I would like to know if someone going to the Costume symposium > that will >> be taking the glove class could please grab an extra set of > notes and >> everything for me. I will reinburse you any costs for them. > Please contact >> me asap. I have made several requests of local folks that are > going but no >> one has responded. I am heart broken that I am not going to be > able to go >> so please, if you can, help. >> >> Chiara >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 16:16:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KKG6OL007456 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:16:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KKFO76000523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:15:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KKFLKJ020963; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:15:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KKFHKJ020791 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:15:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 355781 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:15:11 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:19:49 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Pants Question - Pattern From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've found that if you use elastic rather than string you'll find your waist more easily. LynnD On 10/20/03 12:55 PM, "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" wrote: >> I've seen this mentioned somewhere else before. Okay for a complete > newbie >> to sewing, what is the "true waist"? Being thin and boney anything belted >> or tied will slide down until it rests on my hip bones. > > I have absolutely no experience with men's bodies, but on a woman it's > easier to see, unless she is overweight... The true waist would be a couple > of inches above the hip bone, where the waist is more narrow. Think the > narrowest point of a hourglass. It's the same thing for a man, but since > they don't have hips it's not quite as easy to see. A trick that is used > sometimes is to tie a string to your waist and move from side to side and > twist around, the rope should settle at your true waist. Of course, it won't > work with everyone. > > The true waist is much higher than we wear our pants nowadays, because > current fashion is low-waisted. > > My own waist is about the same height as my belly button, but don't take > this as an absolute guide, it might vary from person to person. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 16:26:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KKQDOL007495 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:26:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KKP676001418 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:25:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KKP0KJ029583; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:25:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KKOtKJ029477 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:24:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.123.248.195] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A3DF2D70148; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:21:51 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002501c39652$588c9a00$f6e44bab@Dan> References: <002501c39652$588c9a00$f6e44bab@Dan> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:07:51 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: [h-cost] Re: (h-cost] was: pattern wish list/shameless plug Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Rima, > >Atlanta/Decatur April,2004, Palm Sunday weekend, Costume Con. Come play >with us. ; > oh geez, don't I wish! I'll ask Santa Husband..... Rima > >Genie >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rima" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 5:41 PM >Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] re. pattern wish list > > >> >Ooh and the men's Regency stuff! You see the Georgian and >> >Victorian sometimes but rarely the Regency. I have some gowns >> >for myself, but have no idea how to do something for my >> >husband.... not that we have anywhere to wear it now that we >> >live in Atlanta... but still, I want it! >> > >> >Teena >> >> >> OOOOOO and RESTORATION stuff! The only Restoration pattern I know >> out there is Richard the Thread, and I didn't get great results with >> it..... >> >> Guess I'll have to draft that one myself too.... unless someone knows >> a pattern out there that can rescue me! >> >> Rima >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 16:51:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KKplOL007587 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:51:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KKnO76003530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:49:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KKnKKJ022426; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:49:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deluge.cc.mcgill.ca (deluge.CC.McGill.CA [132.206.27.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KKnEKJ022341 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:49:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from viroid.mcgill.ca (viroid.McGill.CA [132.206.27.56]) by deluge.cc.mcgill.ca (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9KKnAU9025216 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail.mcgill.ca (webmail.McGill.CA [132.206.27.44]) by viroid.mcgill.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KKn58M029650 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:49:05 -0400 (EDT) X-WebMail-UserID: jhobbi2 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:48:15 -0400 From: joanna hobbins To: Historical Costume X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002913 Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Pants Question - Pattern Message-ID: <3FC9F33E@webmail.mcgill.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61.08 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Another way to find your waist it to stand up with your feet about shoulder width apart and bend to the side. The point where your side creases is your waist. Joanna >===== Original Message From Historical Costume ===== >I've found that if you use elastic rather than string you'll find your waist >more easily. > >LynnD > >On 10/20/03 12:55 PM, "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" >wrote: > >>> I've seen this mentioned somewhere else before. Okay for a complete >> newbie >>> to sewing, what is the "true waist"? Being thin and boney anything belted >>> or tied will slide down until it rests on my hip bones. >> >> I have absolutely no experience with men's bodies, but on a woman it's >> easier to see, unless she is overweight... The true waist would be a couple >> of inches above the hip bone, where the waist is more narrow. Think the >> narrowest point of a hourglass. It's the same thing for a man, but since >> they don't have hips it's not quite as easy to see. A trick that is used >> sometimes is to tie a string to your waist and move from side to side and >> twist around, the rope should settle at your true waist. Of course, it won't >> work with everyone. >> >> The true waist is much higher than we wear our pants nowadays, because >> current fashion is low-waisted. >> >> My own waist is about the same height as my belly button, but don't take >> this as an absolute guide, it might vary from person to person. >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 17:18:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KLIgOL007677 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:18:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KLHw76006092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:17:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KLHu4C017777; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:17:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.thibault.org [66.92.75.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KLHp4D017623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:17:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by sergyar.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h9KLQ8Pi004823 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:26:09 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by sergyar.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:26:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F94512C.6040403@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:18:36 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] finding the waist RE: Pants Question - Pattern References: <3FC9F33E@webmail.mcgill.ca> In-Reply-To: <3FC9F33E@webmail.mcgill.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The medical sites that talk about waist measurements say to put your hand at your side. Feel the top of your pelvis (at the side) and the lowest rib, and halfway between them is your waist. This is one point on a horizontal circle/oval that is your waistline. Those of us who are fat usually wear our waistbands "dropped" in the front, because that's the way fat settles/accretes, so there's a natural indentation that's *not* at the waist. So if we have a skirt that's not hemmed especially for us, the hem is noticably lower in the front! And ready-made men's pants are poofier on plump guys (in the front) for the same reason. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Crivens! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 17:53:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KLrmOL007803 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:53:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KLql76009321 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:52:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KLqj4C018597; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:52:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KLqB4C018161 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:52:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-41-115.jps.net ([209.165.41.115] helo=[209.165.35.201]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ABhwg-0001wj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:52:10 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001601c396ad$06a9b640$3e2ea5d1@pavilion> References: <20031020002117.37426.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com> <001601c396ad$06a9b640$3e2ea5d1@pavilion> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:50:36 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curled Cypress (was hose/stockings) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 6:53 PM -0700 10/19/03, Lisa Sinervo wrote: >Cypress as a linen/silk blend can be found in Linthicum's book Costume in >the Drama of Shakespeare and his Contemporaries. She used Minsheu's Guide >unto Tongues from 1599 -"Gaca, a kind of silke stuffe lyke cypers" and >Florio's dictionary, 1598 "Velitta, also a kind of fine lawne or cypresse." >as references. Also from 1611 but not sure where, maybe Florio - "bauero, a >stuffe made of raw silk as curled cipers." Cypress was a fabric from >Cypress, and it came in a plain or crepe weave. If crepe, it was often >called "crespe", "crespin" or "creppin". - (Florio 1598 for this reference.) >Could also be called "curled cipers" vs. "plain cipers" Interesting. If that's what her original sources said, I would be more likely to interpret it quite differently. Finding it described in one place as silk and in a different place as linen would certainly _not_ lead me to interpret it as a linen/silk blend -- rather I would think it was a description of how the fabric looked or was woven, regardless of fiber content. I would also want to see more documentation of what "crespe" or "creppin" meant in period. My understanding is that this is one of the problems with Linthicum -- that it relies exclusively on a few types of documentary evidence, rather than taking other things into account. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 19:34:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KNYTOL008064 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:34:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KNXf76018528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:33:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KNXcip007930; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:33:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.thibault.org [66.92.75.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KNXXiq007783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:33:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sergyar.thibault.org (sergyar.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by sergyar.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h9KNfpPi005213 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:41:51 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by sergyar.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:41:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F9470FA.1070300@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:34:18 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curled Cypress (was hose/stockings) References: <20031020002117.37426.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com> <001601c396ad$06a9b640$3e2ea5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chris Laning wrote: > I would also want to see more documentation of what > "crespe" or "creppin" meant in period. The word seems similar, so I'll add a tangent: On another list, we were trying to figure out where the term "crespinette" came from. Someone did a lot of hunting and found http://www.saveurs.sympatico.ca/ency_6/triperie/crepine.htm which describes _la crépine_ as the fatty membrane around a cow's intestine. There's a picture at the site. It looks rather like a net, which makes the link to crespinette plausible (plus apparently crespinette is the term for a sausage wrapped in the stuff and fried, and crespinettes look rather like sausages), but now tht I'm looking at it again, it also looks a bit like the random ridges in some crepe fabrics. At present, all that had been found were these modern examples, but it may be a thread which can be followed back into history. Is there a French equivalent of the OED? (see also http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.saveurs.sympatico.ca%2Fency_6%2Ftriperie%2Fcrepine.htm&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&ie=Unknown&oe=ASCII for rough translation) -- Cynthia Virtue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 20:12:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9L0ClOL008354 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:12:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L0Bt76021144 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:11:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L0BrQP001484; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:11:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20205.mail.yahoo.com (web20205.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9L0BmQP001409 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:11:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031021001147.16524.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.179] by web20205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:11:47 EST Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:11:47 +1000 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curled Cypress (was hose/stockings) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200310201154.h9KBs8Qn011594@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Message: 8 > Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:53:56 -0700 > From: "Lisa Sinervo" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curled Cypress (was hose/stockings) > Cypress as a linen/silk blend can be found in Linthicum's book Costume in > the Drama of Shakespeare and his Contemporaries. She used Minsheu's Guide > unto Tongues from 1599 -"Gaca, a kind of silke stuffe lyke cypers" and > Florio's dictionary, 1598 "Velitta, also a kind of fine lawne or cypresse." > as references. Also from 1611 but not sure where, maybe Florio - "bauero, a > stuffe made of raw silk as curled cipers." Cypress was a fabric from > Cypress, and it came in a plain or crepe weave. If crepe, it was often > called "crespe", "crespin" or "creppin". - (Florio 1598 for this reference.) > Could also be called "curled cipers" vs. "plain cipers" Thank you Lisa! I'm actually transcribing Florio right now (and will be for many a day!), and his definition "bauero, a stuffe made of raw silk as curled cipers" is the one I'm going by. According to him, curled cypress is a silk fabric, not a linen/silk blend, so this is re-affirmation. Where the confusion on this thread is happening is that curled cypress and just plain old cypress were getting confused. Bella The Realm of Venus http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 22:28:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9L2SCOL008724 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:28:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L2R676029469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:27:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L2R33Z012031; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:27:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav38.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.95]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L2Qx3Z011957 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:26:54 -0700 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav38.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:26:54 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:28:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Oct 2003 02:26:54.0406 (UTC) FILETIME=[CAFF9E60:01C3977A] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Sue and Kass. One day I'll knit my own. Right now there are too many projects given the number of hours in a year :-) > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On Behalf Of Audrey Bergeron-Morin > Sent: 19 October 2003 12:35 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings > > Talking of stockings... > > Where can I buy something suitable for Elizabethan times? Preferably > wool? > > Thanks! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 23:26:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9L3QWOL008813 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:26:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L3Pk76002723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:25:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L3Pi3c009526; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:25:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L3Pg3c009480 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:25:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-45-224.jps.net ([209.165.45.224] helo=pavilion) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ABn9R-00068b-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:25:41 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:30:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Given that stockings, even knit ones in the Elizabethan time period had seams running down the back of the hose, I think sewing a pair from some purchased knit fabric would not be a terribly bad substitute. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 7:28 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings > Thanks Sue and Kass. > > One day I'll knit my own. Right now there are too many projects given the > number of hours in a year :-) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > > On Behalf Of Audrey Bergeron-Morin > > Sent: 19 October 2003 12:35 AM > > To: Historical Costume > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings > > > > Talking of stockings... > > > > Where can I buy something suitable for Elizabethan times? Preferably > > wool? > > > > Thanks! > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 20 23:31:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9L3VlOL008828 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:31:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L3UZ76002998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:30:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L3UW3c011822; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:30:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L3UT3c011802 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:30:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-45-224.jps.net ([209.165.45.224] helo=pavilion) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ABnE4-0007Kj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:30:29 -0700 Message-ID: <001501c39784$48765e20$e02da5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031020002117.37426.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com> <001601c396ad$06a9b640$3e2ea5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curled Cypress (was hose/stockings) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:34:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would not interpret these quotes as a blend either Chris. These sources say silk or linen not a combination but I do have a very interesting book called "The New Draperies in the Low Countries and England" that I have skimmed through that deals quite a bit with silk/linen/cotton/wool blends and somehow in my head I seem to recall a silk/linen combo called Cypress but I could be wrong. I've a nasty flu at the moment, but after some sleep I'll have a look and see if my memory serves me correctly. Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Laning" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curled Cypress (was hose/stockings) > At 6:53 PM -0700 10/19/03, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > >Cypress as a linen/silk blend can be found in Linthicum's book Costume in > >the Drama of Shakespeare and his Contemporaries. She used Minsheu's Guide > >unto Tongues from 1599 -"Gaca, a kind of silke stuffe lyke cypers" and > >Florio's dictionary, 1598 "Velitta, also a kind of fine lawne or cypresse." > >as references. Also from 1611 but not sure where, maybe Florio - "bauero, a > >stuffe made of raw silk as curled cipers." Cypress was a fabric from > >Cypress, and it came in a plain or crepe weave. If crepe, it was often > >called "crespe", "crespin" or "creppin". - (Florio 1598 for this reference.) > >Could also be called "curled cipers" vs. "plain cipers" > > Interesting. If that's what her original sources said, I would be > more likely to interpret it quite differently. Finding it described > in one place as silk and in a different place as linen would > certainly _not_ lead me to interpret it as a linen/silk blend -- > rather I would think it was a description of how the fabric looked or > was woven, regardless of fiber content. I would also want to see more > documentation of what "crespe" or "creppin" meant in period. My > understanding is that this is one of the problems with Linthicum -- > that it relies exclusively on a few types of documentary evidence, > rather than taking other things into account. > -- > _________________________________________________________ > O Chris Laning > | > + Davis, California > _________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 00:58:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9L4wVOL008919 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:58:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L4vj76008076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:57:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L4vhGg024069; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:57:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L4veGg024022 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:57:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp481.pop1.net [209.102.126.81]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA22473; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:57:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp481.pop1.net [209.102.126.81] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <3F94BC82.8060903@pcez.com> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:56:34 -0700 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cathedral Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: Steps cc: H-Costume Subject: [h-cost] Thanks for word def. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings to one all, Thank you to everyone who has helped me out with the myserterious word. I wish I could reply to each of you, but I'm right in the middle of class/home work. Yes, the word did turn out to be from the Netherlands. What is now confusing is that in the book I originally got the word from, the author is using it alternately with "ailette". Which some of us already know is French for "wing" of "fin". Can anyone help me figure out how in the world the author could be using a word meaning "gambison" with a word that means "wing" or "fin"? Also note, that the ailette is worn outside of the armor at the shoulders. And the gambison is worn under the armor. I'm confused! Or my mind is just bonkers because of my class/home work. :) Thank you again for your wonderful help. I really do appreciate it. In the Service of Many Dreams, Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 01:18:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9L5IGOL008972 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 01:18:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L5HW76009022 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:17:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L5HUGg002956; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:17:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L5HRGg002932 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:17:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip52.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.52]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03CC16EF92 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:17:26 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:16:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] bias binding Message-ID: <3F945EA7.30434.93513AE@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000c01c3973b$a80154b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Yes you are right, it is not as difficult as i thoaght it might be. I > simply whipstitch the binding to the tabs on the backside, and then i > turn and fold, and use some other stitches, wich i dont know what is > called in english, to make a nice front. I am making this corset in > silk taffeta, and it is very hard to stitch in, but it goes, all > right. I think it would be much easyer to stitch in linen. I'm glad it's going so well for you! Linen might be easier to use since it tends to be "stretchier" than silk. (It tends to walk all over even if it's supposedly "straight".) Of course, there is always the fallback on soft leather for another one. ;) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 01:33:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9L5XSOL009016 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 01:33:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L5Wh76009917 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:32:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L5WbGg009104; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:32:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav6.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L5WXGg009056 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:32:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:32:28 -0700 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav6.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:32:27 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass> <000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 01:33:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Oct 2003 05:32:28.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[B77E7D60:01C39794] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" > Given that stockings, even knit ones in the Elizabethan time period had > seams running down the back of the hose... They did? Wow, I didn't even know. Where can I find examples of this? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 02:20:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9L6K3OL015578 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:20:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L6IT76012003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:18:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L6ISiU028071; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:18:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net (turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.126]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L6IQiU028021 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:18:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-45-108.jps.net ([209.165.45.108] helo=pavilion) by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ABpqb-0005jT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:18:25 -0700 Message-ID: <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass><000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:22:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A couple of images with seams in the back of stockings showing are http://www.thrednedlestrete.com/morse/p92.htm - this one is very nice with seam clearly shown on man in lower left corner http://www.thrednedlestrete.com/morse/p98.htm - the next two are a little unclear in the scans, but my book clearly shows seams, but who knows if these are knit? http://www.thrednedlestrete.com/morse/p99.htm Stubbes though has a line ""Then have they nether-stocks to these gay hosen, not of cloth...for that is thought to base... and so curiouslye knit with open seam down the leg, with quirks and clocks about the ancles, and sometime (haply) interlaced with gold or silver threds, as is wunderful to behold." I know knitting machines were invented during Elizabeth's reign, but I have yet to run across how they worked, if they produced flat knitwear or knitted in the round. Another thing I'm looking out for. Still, I think a pair of stockings sewn from knitted fabric would be a huge improvement over lycra tights. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 10:33 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lisa Sinervo" > > Given that stockings, even knit ones in the Elizabethan time period had > > seams running down the back of the hose... > > They did? > Wow, I didn't even know. Where can I find examples of this? > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 02:38:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9L6cSOL022807 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:38:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L6bg76012801 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:37:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L6bfiU007956; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:37:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L6bciU007887 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:37:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0509.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.254]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2EEA19FC83 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:37:32 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F94D550.8040905@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:42:24 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thanks for word def. References: <3F94BC82.8060903@pcez.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In dutch ailette means neckprotector Roscelin wrote: > Greetings to one all, > Thank you to everyone who has helped me out with the myserterious > word. I wish I could reply to each of you, but I'm right in the > middle of class/home work. > Yes, the word did turn out to be from the Netherlands. What is > now confusing is that in the book I originally got the word from, the > author is using it alternately with "ailette". Which some of us > already know is French for "wing" of "fin". Can anyone help me > figure out how in the world the author could be using a word meaning > "gambison" with a word that means "wing" or "fin"? Also note, that > the ailette is worn outside of the armor at the shoulders. And the > gambison is worn under the armor. > I'm confused! Or my mind is just bonkers because of my > class/home work. :) > Thank you again for your wonderful help. I really do appreciate > it. > > In the Service of Many Dreams, > Roscelin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 08:09:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LC9OOL015979 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:09:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LC7s76025439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:07:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LC7nfx019931; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:07:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LC7kfx019875 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:07:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (bgp380694bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.16.142]) by webwarren.com (8.12.9/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9LC7ZL6022439 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:07:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031021080400.11e31cb8@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:07:17 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Curled Cypress (was hose/stockings) In-Reply-To: <200310210227.h9L2Rg3a012437@net.indra.com> References: <200310210227.h9L2Rg3a012437@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:34:18 -0400, Cynthia Virtue wrote: >Is there a French equivalent of the OED? I believe _le Petit Robert_ is what is used, or something else _Robert_ (I don't recall exactly offhand). I remember being told that it was something like 17 volumes... Audrey, perhaps you're more familiar with? (Or do most people you know use Canadian-French dictionaries?) Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 08:27:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LCRQOL016072 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:27:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LCQm76026093 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:26:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LCQlfx027798; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:26:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LCQjfx027785 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:26:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.249.181.71] (pool181-19.patriot.net [209.249.181.19]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9LCQdvP005403 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:26:41 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> References: <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass><000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:27:11 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Lisa, What great images and quote! I'm a bit curious what Stubbes meant by "open seam down the leg". If it was a seam, that implies it was sewn closed. ?? I've been researching 18thC stockings, and while I also enjoy the earlier examples I have not studied them as much. In hand-knit hose, a purl stitch is usually made down the center back, giving the appearance of a seam. Maybe this is a style after hose cut on the bias of woven cloth and sewn. I don't know exactly how early the purl "seam" appeared in hand knit hose, but it was definitely there by the 18thC. The Gunnister hose have the purl "seam", and they're 17thC. Circular knitting machines were invented around 1790 and were used for stockings in the early 19th century. Lee's frame (the Elizabethan era invention) knit flat, and the fabric was shaped on the frame (with decreases at the edges of the fabric), and then sewn up the back with a separate sole piece. Diderot's Encyclopedia has a great set of diagrams on the mechanism of a knitting frame, and many books on the history of knitting include a diagram. We've discussed frame knitting on the historic knit list (HistoricKnit, a Yahoo group), and the photo archives include pictures of hand frames and my own hastily-drawn pictures of the mechanism. The Lee style frames were used into the 20th century, and several working frames still are demonstrated at museums in England. I agree that hose cut & sewn from knit fabric are better than lycra tights. Kannik's Korner has a pattern for cut & sewn hose. I haven't been able to find a knit fabric that's close to what I see in original hose, because originals were not stretchy. -Carol Kocian >A couple of images with seams in the back of stockings showing are >http://www.thrednedlestrete.com/morse/p92.htm - this one is very nice with >seam clearly shown on man in lower left corner >http://www.thrednedlestrete.com/morse/p98.htm - the next two are a little >unclear in the scans, but my book clearly shows seams, but who knows if >these are knit? >http://www.thrednedlestrete.com/morse/p99.htm > >Stubbes though has a line ""Then have they nether-stocks to these gay >hosen, not of cloth...for that is thought to base... and so curiouslye knit >with open seam down the leg, with quirks and clocks about the ancles, and >sometime (haply) interlaced with gold or silver threds, as is wunderful to >behold." > >I know knitting machines were invented during Elizabeth's reign, but I have >yet to run across how they worked, if they produced flat knitwear or knitted >in the round. Another thing I'm looking out for. > >Still, I think a pair of stockings sewn from knitted fabric would be a huge >improvement over lycra tights. > >Lisa Sinervo >www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 08:40:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LCe2OL016130 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:40:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LCdI76026702 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:39:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LCdHfx003043; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:39:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LCdEfx003019 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:39:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-018scfairp0183.dialsprint.net ([63.183.176.183] helo=faucet.net) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ABvn7-0005lC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:39:13 -0700 Message-ID: <3F9536E6.80904@faucet.net> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:38:46 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings References: <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass><000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa Sinervo wrote: > Stubbes though has a line ""Then have they nether-stocks to these gay > hosen, not of cloth...for that is thought to base... and so curiouslye knit > with open seam down the leg, with quirks and clocks about the ancles, and > sometime (haply) interlaced with gold or silver threds, as is wunderful to > behold." I would interpret "open seam down the leg" as referring to vertical lines of decorative knitwork, as can be seen in Eleonora's stockings in either QEWU or Patterns of Fashion, rather than a functional seam up the back. This decorative knitwork could be described as more "open" in appearance than standard knit, and having a seam up the back of the leg to hold the hose together makes no sense if that seam is open. In addition, Stubbes is cataloguing in this list of features decorative (and expensive) rather than functional characteristics of hose to emphasize his disapproval for such frivolity. Not evidence, just my opinion, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume http://www.coastal.edu/theater _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 08:58:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LCwAOL016200 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:58:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LCvS76027384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:57:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LCvRGd010664; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:57:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LCvOGd010645 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:57:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.115]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:54:59 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:57:16 -0400 Message-ID: <000401c397d2$df89c420$736453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Audrey wrote: <> No kidding! I'm with you on that one, Audrey. I have the better part of a pair of Carnamoyle stockings (Irish 16th century) done, but not finished and about five or six inches started on a pair of 18th thread (linen) stockings. That's some slow knitting, let me tell you! But I wear stockings from Sykes or I make cloth hose. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 09:00:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LD0EOL016209 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:00:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LCx776027473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:59:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LCx6Gd011365; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:59:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LCx2Gd011323 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:59:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.115]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:56:37 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:58:56 -0400 Message-ID: <000501c397d3$1a5c3510$736453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa wrote: <> In the 18th century, stockings sewn together from frame knitted silk was rather de rigeur. Look here: http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/18thc/silkstockings.html Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 09:00:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LD0vOL016213 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:00:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LCxa76027509 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:59:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LCxZGd011579; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:59:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LCxXGd011475 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:59:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h9LD0TA22769.; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:00:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:59:19 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:59:06 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Curled Cypress (was hose/stockings) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> webwarren@earthlink.net 10/21/03 01:07pm >>> >>Is there a French equivalent of the OED? >I believe _le Petit Robert_ is what is used, or something else _Robert_ (I >don't recall exactly offhand). I remember being told that it was something >like 17 volumes... That would be Le Grand Robert - the "little" one is the one-volume version! ___________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 09:04:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LD4XOL016228 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:04:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LD3d76027730 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:03:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LD3cGd013470; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:03:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LD3aGd013445 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:03:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.115]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:01:12 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:03:34 -0400 Message-ID: <000601c397d3$bccd2340$736453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carol wrote: <> Carol, the Carnamoyle stockings date to the late 16th century and are knitted with a purl "seam" up the back. So that might be your early date. Of course the Irish have always been a little behind the times. I'm of the same opinion as you; I think they put the purl seam in to imitate cut hose ("Hose are supposed to have a seam so we'll make one!"). But here's another thought. When I'm knitting in the round, having to make that purl stitch helps me remember what row I'm on. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 09:07:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LD7sOL016257 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:07:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LD6g76027906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:06:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LD6gGd014944; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:06:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LD6dGd014879 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:06:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m40.in-tch.com [216.166.191.40]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9LCjn029022 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:45:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F952FEE.53E6E2A@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:09:02 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thanks for word def. References: <3F94BC82.8060903@pcez.com> <3F94D550.8040905@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Like a gorget? --sue Deredere Galbraith wrote: > > In dutch ailette means neckprotector > > Roscelin wrote: > > > Greetings to one all, > > Thank you to everyone who has helped me out with the myserterious > > word. I wish I could reply to each of you, but I'm right in the > > middle of class/home work. > > Yes, the word did turn out to be from the Netherlands. What is > > now confusing is that in the book I originally got the word from, the > > author is using it alternately with "ailette". Which some of us > > already know is French for "wing" of "fin". Can anyone help me > > figure out how in the world the author could be using a word meaning > > "gambison" with a word that means "wing" or "fin"? Also note, that > > the ailette is worn outside of the armor at the shoulders. And the > > gambison is worn under the armor. > > I'm confused! Or my mind is just bonkers because of my > > class/home work. :) > > Thank you again for your wonderful help. I really do appreciate > > it. > > > > In the Service of Many Dreams, > > Roscelin > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 10:35:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LEZAOL016492 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:35:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LEY676003328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:34:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LEY2MK003719; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:34:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20204.mail.yahoo.com (web20204.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9LEY0MK003690 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031021143359.5784.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.162.250.83] by web20204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:33:59 PDT Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:33:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Angela Kessler To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031020195100.80410.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] New Yahoo! Group: BridalSewing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, all! This message is to announce that I have started a new Yahoo! group: BridalSewing. After trying to gather the information I need from tangentially-related groups, I have decided to test the "if you build it, they will come" theory. Here is the description: *** This is a group especially for those who design and/or sew custom wedding gowns. Discussion topics can include, for example, techniques for working with fussy fabrics, sources for materials, dealing with challenging clients, or any of the non-sewing aspects necessary in running a small business. It can be found at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bridalsewing To subscribe, send email to bridalsewing-subscribe@yahoogroups.com *** Where else would you suggest I announce this group? Or, feel free to just forward this announcement yourself to other lists or individuals where you think there might be interest. (If you forward to other lists, please let me know so I don't duplicate.) It may be a small group at first, but I'm hopeful it can be a helpful and supportive one. Thanks- Angela __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 12:55:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LGtOOL017092 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:55:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LGsD76016875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:54:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LGs7x3029720; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:54:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LGs4x3029666 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:54:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-50-064.jps.net ([209.165.50.64] helo=pavilion) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ABzli-0006be-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:54:03 -0700 Message-ID: <004601c397f4$8d479940$4032a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:58:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] The End of Northern Faire X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h9LGtOOL017092 Status: RO FYI - Guess the Heart of the Forest Faire must be doing fairly well......... To: Bill Watters Subject: [NorCalRenFaire] Northern Faire Closes for good Importance: High Dear Guildmasters, Directors, Performers, As you have been aware, the fate of our Northern Faire has been uncertain. I am sad to announce that we are, indeed, closing the Northern Renaissance Pleasure Faire. Below is a letter from our management detailing the situation. Please know that Southern Faire will go on as planned, and that I am continuing as Entertainment Director. I thank everyone involved in creating our entertainment. You can be proud of the fine job you have done and proud of the effort you exerted to make this Faire a success. The memories of Northern Faire, including the times we shared, certainly will live on in my heart. I am looking forward to our next meeting. I apologize for the lack of a complete e-mail llist. Please forward this message to all concerned parties. Gerald Zepeda Director of Entertainment REC California (408) 847-1138 ext 241 Renaissance Entertainment Corporation Renaissance Pleasure Faire 10021 Pacheco Pass Hwy 152 Hollister, CA 95023 (408) 846-6446 Dear Faire Family, As you are aware, we have been fighting a losing battle over the last few years with attendance and loss of income with the Northern Renaissance Pleasure Faire. We have had a steady decline in attendance since 1991 (with the exception of 1994, our first year of "Farewell to Black Point"). There is no one factor that we can isolate which has contributed to the failing of the show. The decline began during the Patterson's administration and has continued through a series of General Managers who have been unable to stop the hemorrhaging of revenues at this event. No ad campaign nor marketing schedule, including Phyllis Patterson's legendary marketing skills, was able to deter the decline. Our attendance failed long before we moved from our home in Blackpoint and has suffered greatly while we tried to find a permanent home. Since 1994 we have looked at over 200 sites and have spent over $500,000 in an attempt to find a home for our Faire. Not only has a property been impossible to find, the one exception (American Canyon) proved too costly to make workable and the California environment regulations work against any sincere efforts to create a business which by all accounts, "lays lightly on the soil". The Northern Faire has lost $900,061 in revenues during the years 1999-2003. Our attendance has declined 62% since 1991. The losses incurred by the Northern Faire have placed a continual drain on our Southern, Chicago and New York Faires, which are healthy shows and consistently create a profit. It is unfair for these healthy shows to bear the burden on Northern's losses. It, therefore, is which great sadness that we announce that we are closing the Northern Renaissance Pleasure Faire. We must ask that you remove all of your personal possessions from the site by November 2nd, 2003. As performers and entertainers the show has rested on your shoulders for many, many seasons. Please know that this failure does not reflect upon the amazing grace that you have given the show. We are all so appreciative of the energy and level of entertainment that you have contributed. The show sparkled brightly this season and it is bittersweet that even though we have never looked or performed better, this has become our final Huzzah. We thank all of you for your continued support through all these past years. For as long as the show lives in our memories, it shall never fade away. -- The staff and management of the Northern Renaissance Pleasure Faire and Renaissance Entertainment Corporation. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 15:00:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LJ0iOL017411 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:00:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LIxo76028704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:59:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LIxaHQ022898; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:59:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from exchange.lynchburg.edu (cain161-115-184-19.lynchburg.edu [161.115.184.19] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LIxRHQ022704 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:59:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by exchange.lynchburg.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <40X25S8W>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:59:25 -0400 Message-ID: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA951F@exchange.lynchburg.edu> From: "Formo, Nathan" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:59:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [h-cost] RE: Pants Question - PICTURES!! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO After promising pictures so that everyone could see the outfit I realized something. This isn't one of my Yahoo groups that has a picture section. And I don't have a personal web page set up. :( However I have posted some pics of my outfit. You can find them in either of 2 yahoo groups. I'm hoping a lot of people here are also on SCA-Garb. If not then it is easy enough to join just long enough to check out the pics. The same goes for my local SCA group Central_Virgina_SCA. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/central_virginia_sca/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Garb/ In either group go to Photos, then look for a folder labeled Bjorn Arnaldsson. These were all taken at a dance performance this past weekend. They aren't the best pics in the world but you should be able to see some of the detail in my garb if you open them up fully. Keep in mind that the panes aren't as noticeable in the pics because they are pinned down. There was a bit of concern as to what would happen if the girl got caught up in them while we were dancing. Any questions/comments on the pants or doublet would be appreciated. As for the true waist line of discussion. When I wear belts etc and they slide down they end up catching on the top of my hip bones. Generally with a comfortable fitting pair of pants that puts the front of the pants just about a .5 inch below my navel. (Someone suggested elastic. Elastic seems to ignore my hips and keep sliding down. Unless it's tight enough to cut off my circulation. I always have to tie sweat pants because I can't assume the elastic will help.) So apparently I'm pretty close to what I think most of you are describing as "true waist". Unless I'm reading wrong and "true waist" should cover your belly button. The doublet is still about 2-3 inches higher then that without the panels. (Which is why I added the panels.) You may notice in a couple of the pictures that when I move around the doublet rises and you get a good view of white shirt between my pants and doublet. I may go ahead and work on some ties between a couple of the panels on the doublet. That would keep the top of the pants just a little higher then my navel but no one would notice that. Bjorn Arnaldsson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 15:02:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LJ2KOL017418 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:02:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LJ1676028862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:01:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LJ15HQ024565; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:01:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from exchange.lynchburg.edu (cain161-115-184-19.lynchburg.edu [161.115.184.19] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LJ10HQ024485 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by exchange.lynchburg.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <40X25S9C>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:01:00 -0400 Message-ID: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA9520@exchange.lynchburg.edu> From: "Formo, Nathan" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:00:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Pants question - PICTURES X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry I forgot to add this on. If anyone wants to see the pics but doesn't want to check those groups, let me know and I can email you a zip file. If anyone has a suggestion of another place I can post them for people to see, just let me know. Bjorn Arnaldsson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 15:14:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LJEsOL017455 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:14:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LJDx76029909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LJDwHQ006532; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:13:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav44.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LJDuHQ006428 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:13:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:13:51 -0700 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav44.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:13:50 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200310210227.h9L2Rg3a012437@net.indra.com> <6.0.0.22.0.20031021080400.11e31cb8@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Curled Cypress (was hose/stockings) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:15:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Oct 2003 19:13:51.0072 (UTC) FILETIME=[76233E00:01C39807] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >Is there a French equivalent of the OED? > > I believe _le Petit Robert_ is what is used, or something else _Robert_ (I > don't recall exactly offhand). I remember being told that it was something > like 17 volumes... > > Audrey, perhaps you're more familiar with? (Or do most people you know use > Canadian-French dictionaries?) Hmm, sorry I don't know. We don't have many French-Canadian dictionaries, most of the times we use the French (from France) ones. As for a OED-like volume, it probably exists somewhere, but I've never heard of it :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 15:33:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LJXUOL017532 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:33:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LJWZ76001598 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:32:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LJWXHQ023040; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:32:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LJWTHQ022914 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:32:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0F6B425CE for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:36:19 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3F958A44.5080505@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:34:28 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] dyeing linen X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO All, I know nothing (much) about dyeing, but a friend of mine and I want to try it this winter. We'd like to work with linen (did I just pick the most difficult fabric to dye?) as we have costume interests that range from the 16th to 18th centuries. I think at this point we'd also like to use prepared commercial dyes rather than go the period plant route. What I'm asking is, does anyone recommend a certain brand of dye either for use with linen, or for ease of use, or for coloring suitable for the periods we plan to use it for? I'm hoping to get the dye products through Dharma Trading. Book suggestions for beginners would also be welcome. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 15:34:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LJYhOL017535 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:34:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LJXM76001731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:33:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LJXLHQ023737; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:33:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LJXGHQ023655 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:33:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h9LJYOA15505.; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:34:24 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:33:15 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:33:08 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Finding the waist, was RE: Pants Question - Pattern Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think I must have an unusually long ribcage, because there's only about two fingers' width between my lower ribs and my hipbone - I have no problem finding my waist! As Kat says, until the mid-17th century the breeches were attached to the doublet by laces called "points" (another reason why a gentleman didn't take off his doublet in public!) Bjorn's suit looks early 17th century to me- the fashionable waistline was high at this period. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> audreybmorin2@hotmail.com 10/20/03 08:55pm >>> wrote: Ihe true waist would be a couple of inches above the hip bone, where the waist is more narrow. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 15:41:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LJfxOL017546 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:41:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LJeR76002308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:40:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LJeOHQ000128; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:40:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LJeJHQ029943 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:40:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.56.34] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AAEC8510150; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:37:16 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3F958A44.5080505@reddawn.net> References: <3F958A44.5080505@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:43:30 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] dyeing linen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn says: >I know nothing (much) about dyeing, but a friend of mine and I want >to try it this winter. We'd like to work with linen (did I just pick >the most difficult fabric to dye?) as we have costume interests that >range from the 16th to 18th centuries. I think at this point we'd >also like to use prepared commercial dyes rather than go the period >plant route. > >What I'm asking is, does anyone recommend a certain brand of dye >either for use with linen, or for ease of use, or for coloring >suitable for the periods we plan to use it for? > >I'm hoping to get the dye products through Dharma Trading. Book >suggestions for beginners would also be welcome. I'm also new at dying. I've had good luck with Jacquard dyes. Easy easy easy. But then I've been doing sillk, not linen, so I dunno what specific linen problems you might run into. What I do know is that the folks at Dharma are ready, willing, and able to talk you thru the process. I think the expert there is Judy. If you're not sure what to do, give 'em a ring! BTW, if you haven't bought their 3mm silk chiffon, you just haven't LIVED! And I think it's a whopping $3 a yard!!!!! Rima BIG Dharma fan! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 16:06:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LK6WOL017951 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:06:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LK5576004744 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:05:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LK52q0023065; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LK4uq0022984 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:04:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.39]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:02:33 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] dyeing linen Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:04:56 -0400 Message-ID: <005001c3980e$9aa27cd0$736453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <3F958A44.5080505@reddawn.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn, Try http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/3246-AA.shtml Cotton, Rayon, and Hemp are all vegetable (cellulose) fibres, as is Linen. Actually, linen is chemically very similar to Hemp. They're both bast fibres. I prefer buying direct form these guys. They're the manufacturer: http://jacquardproducts.com/products/dyes/procionmx/ Just follow the directions and make sure you don't use silk or wool (animal fibre) dyes on the linen and you'll be fine. Kass -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: 21 October 2003 3:34 PM To: 'h-costume@indra.com' Subject: [h-cost] dyeing linen All, I know nothing (much) about dyeing, but a friend of mine and I want to try it this winter. We'd like to work with linen (did I just pick the most difficult fabric to dye?) as we have costume interests that range from the 16th to 18th centuries. I think at this point we'd also like to use prepared commercial dyes rather than go the period plant route. What I'm asking is, does anyone recommend a certain brand of dye either for use with linen, or for ease of use, or for coloring suitable for the periods we plan to use it for? I'm hoping to get the dye products through Dharma Trading. Book suggestions for beginners would also be welcome. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 16:18:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LKIqOL018090 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:18:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKI076005955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:18:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKHwq0004539; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:17:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKHtq0004476 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:17:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12])h9LIicJ21471 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 209-165-50-155.jps.net ([209.165.50.155] helo=pavilion) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AC1Uj-000540-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:44:38 -0700 Message-ID: <006901c39804$00031900$4032a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c397d3$1a5c3510$736453d8@Kass> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:49:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for this link, plus the silk knit supplier. I'm a big fan of silk knit camisoles and long johns for snowy weather, warmth without the bulk. I bet a pair of silk hose from this sort of fabric would be very nice. Do you have any idea of what gauge Lee's 16th century knitting machines produced? Carol? Anyone? I bet there must be a few second hand knitting machines on the market that wouldn't be too hard to program to produce a pair of flat knit hose......... Lisa - off in dreamland again!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 5:58 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings > Lisa wrote: > < had > seams running down the back of the hose, I think sewing a pair from some > purchased knit fabric would not be a terribly bad substitute.>> > > In the 18th century, stockings sewn together from frame knitted silk was > rather de rigeur. Look here: > http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/18thc/silkstockings.html > > Kass > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 16:26:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LKQuOL018104 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:26:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKPn76006763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:25:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKPmq0011501; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:25:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKPjq0011462 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:25:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-45-251.jps.net ([209.165.45.251] helo=pavilion) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AC34a-0004TG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:25:45 -0700 Message-ID: <002a01c39812$1f397b80$fb2da5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:30:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Thanks for this link, plus the silk knit supplier. I'm a big fan of silk > knit camisoles and long johns for snowy weather, warmth without the bulk. I > bet a pair of silk hose from this sort of fabric would be very nice. Do you > have any idea of what gauge Lee's 16th century knitting machines produced? > Carol? Anyone? I bet there must be a few second hand knitting machines on > the market that wouldn't be too hard to program to produce a pair of flat > knit hose......... > > Lisa - off in dreamland again!!!! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kass McGann" > To: "'Historical Costume'" > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 5:58 AM > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings > > > > Lisa wrote: > > < > had > > seams running down the back of the hose, I think sewing a pair from some > > purchased knit fabric would not be a terribly bad substitute.>> > > > > In the 18th century, stockings sewn together from frame knitted silk was > > rather de rigeur. Look here: > > http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/18thc/silkstockings.html > > > > Kass > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 16:27:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LKRbOL018109 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:27:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKQ976006790 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:26:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKQ8q0011813; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:26:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKPxq0011713 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-45-251.jps.net ([209.165.45.251] helo=pavilion) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AC34o-0004XV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:25:58 -0700 Message-ID: <002f01c39812$27cd38e0$fb2da5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:30:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Re: more on Hose/stockings X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Melanie wrote: > > > > I would interpret "open seam down the leg" as referring to vertical > > lines of decorative knitwork, as can be seen in Eleonora's stockings in > > either QEWU or Patterns of Fashion, rather than a functional seam up the > > back. This decorative knitwork could be described as more "open" in > > appearance than standard knit, and having a seam up the back of the leg > > to hold the hose together makes no sense if that seam is open. In > > addition, Stubbes is cataloguing in this list of features decorative > > (and expensive) rather than functional characteristics of hose to > > emphasize his disapproval for such frivolity. > > Perhaps this might relate to the purl stitch in knit in the round stockings? > It does seem to be a decorative effect he is speaking of but I don't know if > a purl is really open. It's hard to tell just from this quote. > > > Carol Kocian wrote: > > Circular knitting machines were invented around 1790 and were > used for stockings in the early 19th century. Lee's frame (the > Elizabethan era invention) knit flat, and the fabric was shaped on > the frame (with decreases at the edges of the fabric), and then sewn > up the back with a separate sole piece. > > My assumption was that the 16th century knitting machine (invention) would > have produced a flat knit material requiring a seam up the back, but I > wasn't sure so thanks for that info. I did find a couple a quotes that may > be of interest and some export data relating to stockings ... > > From The New Draperies book from the early 16th century public record "One > deputy-alnager, who thought that the defects in knitting were 'verye > common', desposed that 'stockinges manie tymes are made verye defective the > feete beinge made of Another sort of yarne and too Little for the proporcion > of the Legge.' > > London exported 33,455 pairs of worsted stockings in 1595 and 267,000 in > 1619 although I don't know if these were knit or woven. > > One hosier's inventory contained coloured woollen boys' hose at 6d. per > pair, women's coloured hose at 16d. per pair, coloured wheel-spun hose at > 2s. 2d. per pair and coloured jersey hose at 3s.8d per pair. > > Instead of trying to hand knit a pair of hose, I wonder if there are very > many people around with knitting machines that would take a commission on a > pair or two? Or do popular knitting machines produce such a fine gauge > fabric? > > Lisa Sinervo > www.thrednedlestrete.com > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 16:28:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LKS2OL018112 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:28:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKQR76006843 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:26:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKQOq0012113; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:26:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKQJq0011962 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:26:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-45-251.jps.net ([209.165.45.251] helo=pavilion) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AC357-0004d2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:26:18 -0700 Message-ID: <003601c39812$335a6020$fb2da5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:30:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Curled Cypress & "Crape" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I've had a glance through The New Draperies in the Low Countries and England > and found nothing on cypress. Janet Arnold speculates in QEWU that in > addition to being made solely of silk or solely of linen, it might be made > with a linen warp and silk weft, but no reference as to why she thinks this. > This may be where I picked the blend notion up from. Arnold used > Linthicum's book so maybe she picked up this thought from "Costume in the > Drama of Shakespeare and his Contemporaries", in any case after looking I > have found no period reference for a silk/linen blend cypress, just silk or > linen. > > The New Draperies book does talk about the introduction of wool "crape" as > a product produced in Norwich with probate records giving evidence of its > first appearance in 1670s. While this is much later than Elizabethan times, > I am finding quite a bit of talk and evidence of supple fabric blends used > during this time period even though I had always thought of Elizabethan > fabric as being rather stiff. > > Lisa Sinervo > www.thrednedlestrete.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lisa Sinervo" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 8:34 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curled Cypress (was hose/stockings) > > > > I would not interpret these quotes as a blend either Chris. These sources > > say silk or linen not a combination but I do have a very interesting book > > called "The New Draperies in the Low Countries and England" that I have > > skimmed through that deals quite a bit with silk/linen/cotton/wool blends > > and somehow in my head I seem to recall a silk/linen combo called Cypress > > but I could be wrong. I've a nasty flu at the moment, but after some > sleep > > I'll have a look and see if my memory serves me correctly. > > > > Lisa Sinervo > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris Laning" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 2:50 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curled Cypress (was hose/stockings) > > > > > > > At 6:53 PM -0700 10/19/03, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > > >Cypress as a linen/silk blend can be found in Linthicum's book Costume > in > > > >the Drama of Shakespeare and his Contemporaries. She used Minsheu's > > Guide > > > >unto Tongues from 1599 -"Gaca, a kind of silke stuffe lyke cypers" and > > > >Florio's dictionary, 1598 "Velitta, also a kind of fine lawne or > > cypresse." > > > >as references. Also from 1611 but not sure where, maybe Florio - > "bauero, > > a > > > >stuffe made of raw silk as curled cipers." Cypress was a fabric from > > > >Cypress, and it came in a plain or crepe weave. If crepe, it was often > > > >called "crespe", "crespin" or "creppin". - (Florio 1598 for this > > reference.) > > > >Could also be called "curled cipers" vs. "plain cipers" > > > > > > Interesting. If that's what her original sources said, I would be > > > more likely to interpret it quite differently. Finding it described > > > in one place as silk and in a different place as linen would > > > certainly _not_ lead me to interpret it as a linen/silk blend -- > > > rather I would think it was a description of how the fabric looked or > > > was woven, regardless of fiber content. I would also want to see more > > > documentation of what "crespe" or "creppin" meant in period. My > > > understanding is that this is one of the problems with Linthicum -- > > > that it relies exclusively on a few types of documentary evidence, > > > rather than taking other things into account. > > > -- > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > O Chris Laning > > > | > > > + Davis, California > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 16:32:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LKWWOL018124 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:32:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKVe76007423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:31:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKVdq0016737; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:31:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKVYq0016626 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:31:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AC3AC-00071C-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:31:33 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] dyeing linen Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:31:44 -0700 Message-ID: <001501c39812$59f3f7a0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <3F958A44.5080505@reddawn.net> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9LKVYq0016626 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You are definitely doing the right thing Dawn. I use the Dharma Procion powdered dyes all the time. Your catalog (or the website) will tell you the things you need. Soda Ash can be purchased at any place that sells pool supplies and is MUCH cheaper! Be sure to buy some Reduran (dye remover for your hands). Be VERY sure to wear a filter mask when handling the dyes while in their powdered form and the soda ash. I also do use the casoline oil, dye fixative and millsoft products. You will have SOOOO much fun! Linen is easy to dye. One of the things they don't tell you to do, but I have found makes for much more even dye distribution is to stop your machine once in awhile. (my machine will not start it's spin cycle as long as the top is left open-which is nice because your dye won't drain out when you don't want it to.) Then unwind the fabric. If you can cut your fabric up into smaller lengths and serge, pink, or zig-zag the ends to prevent strings. You may want to use rubber gloves or your fingernails may turn yucky colors (even with the reduran). Oh and when they say SLOWLY add the Soda Ash solution do that. And be sure you have thoroughly dissolved it and don't pour it right on the fabric! It is caustic and will eat right through it! Ask me how I know!! Feel free to ask more questions if you like. You might want to post directly to me because if it ends up in the H-Cost pile, I may loose it. (So don't put h-cost anywhere in your note!) :) Sg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 12:34 PM To: 'h-costume@indra.com' Subject: [h-cost] dyeing linen All, I know nothing (much) about dyeing, but a friend of mine and I want to try it this winter. We'd like to work with linen (did I just pick the most difficult fabric to dye?) as we have costume interests that range from the 16th to 18th centuries. I think at this point we'd also like to use prepared commercial dyes rather than go the period plant route. What I'm asking is, does anyone recommend a certain brand of dye either for use with linen, or for ease of use, or for coloring suitable for the periods we plan to use it for? I'm hoping to get the dye products through Dharma Trading. Book suggestions for beginners would also be welcome. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 16:42:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LKgJOL018155 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:42:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKeO76008284 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:40:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKeNq0024145; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:40:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKeLq0024107 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:40:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12])h9LIbhJ15222 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 209-165-50-155.jps.net ([209.165.50.155] helo=pavilion) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AC1O0-0003KC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:37:41 -0700 Message-ID: <006201c39803$06a66d80$4032a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass><000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion><000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <3F9536E6.80904@faucet.net> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:41:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] more on Hose/stockings X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Melanie wrote: > > I would interpret "open seam down the leg" as referring to vertical > lines of decorative knitwork, as can be seen in Eleonora's stockings in > either QEWU or Patterns of Fashion, rather than a functional seam up the > back. This decorative knitwork could be described as more "open" in > appearance than standard knit, and having a seam up the back of the leg > to hold the hose together makes no sense if that seam is open. In > addition, Stubbes is cataloguing in this list of features decorative > (and expensive) rather than functional characteristics of hose to > emphasize his disapproval for such frivolity. Perhaps this might relate to the purl stitch in knit in the round stockings? It does seem to be a decorative effect he is speaking of but I don't know if a purl is really open. It's hard to tell just from this quote. Carol Kocian wrote: Circular knitting machines were invented around 1790 and were used for stockings in the early 19th century. Lee's frame (the Elizabethan era invention) knit flat, and the fabric was shaped on the frame (with decreases at the edges of the fabric), and then sewn up the back with a separate sole piece. My assumption was that the 16th century knitting machine (invention) would have produced a flat knit material requiring a seam up the back, but I wasn't sure so thanks for that info. I did find a couple a quotes that may be of interest and some export data relating to stockings ... >From The New Draperies book from the early 16th century public record "One deputy-alnager, who thought that the defects in knitting were 'verye common', desposed that 'stockinges manie tymes are made verye defective the feete beinge made of Another sort of yarne and too Little for the proporcion of the Legge.' London exported 33,455 pairs of worsted stockings in 1595 and 267,000 in 1619 although I don't know if these were knit or woven. One hosier's inventory contained coloured woollen boys' hose at 6d. per pair, women's coloured hose at 16d. per pair, coloured wheel-spun hose at 2s. 2d. per pair and coloured jersey hose at 3s.8d per pair. Instead of trying to hand knit a pair of hose, I wonder if there are very many people around with knitting machines that would take a commission on a pair or two? Or do popular knitting machines produce such a fine gauge fabric? Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 16:51:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LKpiOL018215 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:51:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKoq76009203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:50:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKooq0003327; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:50:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKonq0003309 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:50:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AC3Sp-0004om-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:50:48 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] dyeing linen Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:50:58 -0700 Message-ID: <001801c39815$0a9e7d80$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <005001c3980e$9aa27cd0$736453d8@Kass> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I prefer buying direct form these guys. They're the manufacturer: http://jacquardproducts.com/products/dyes/procionmx/ [Sg] How do you buy directly from the website...all I see are referrals to other stores? Do they sell the powdered form? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 16:52:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LKqYOL018224 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:52:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKp676009220 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:51:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKp5q0003527; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:51:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LKorq0003348 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:50:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AC3St-0004om-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:50:52 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Pants Question - PICTURES!! Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:50:58 -0700 Message-ID: <001901c39815$0d3c80f0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA951F@exchange.lynchburg.edu> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9LKorq0003348 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You look great! They look great! I wish I had been following the discussion earlier. A person's waist is not necessarily where his/belly button is. Often when we are unsure where it is (this mostly occurs with heavier people) we tie a piece of elastic snuggly 'round where we think it is and then ask the person to move about. The elastic will settle where the natural waist is. Sounds to me like your pants are settling where they should. But then you do have to adjust your doublet length to match it. What type of dance is this called? Not to be critical, but why are you the only one dressed in period garb? Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 17:11:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LLBXOL018295 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:11:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LLAG76011091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:10:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LLACiO020044; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:10:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LL9FiO019308 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:09:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.39]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:06:52 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] dyeing linen Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:09:16 -0400 Message-ID: <005101c39817$96d09e30$736453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <001801c39815$0a9e7d80$6501a8c0@SG01> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO [Sg] How do you buy directly from the website...all I see are referrals to other stores? Do they sell the powdered form? Call them. You don't have to buy in bulk to buy from them. I've bought as little as a 1/2 ounce. And yes, it is powdered. The number is here: http://jacquardproducts.com/contact/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 17:12:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LLCfOL018298 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:12:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LLBW76011255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:11:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LLBWiO021303; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:11:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LLBSiO021239 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:11:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id h9LLBSAp009864 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:11:28 -0400 Message-Id: <200310212111.h9LLBSAp009864@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:07:17 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Lisa, > Do you have any idea of what gauge Lee's 16th century knitting > machines produced? In _Socks & Stockings_ by Jeremy Farrell, there is a pair of hose knit, I think in the early 20th C, supposedly at the guage that Lee's original machine had. The story is that Queen Elizabeth refused him a patent until he could get the guage finer because otherwise he would put handknitters out of business. > I bet there must be a few second hand knitting machines on > the market that wouldn't be too hard to program to produce > a pair of flat knit hose......... Oh, if only you knew! I spent a month in Nottingham learning to use an antique frame (that's where some of my pictures in HistoricKnit are from). What I really did was to start to learn how to be a frame mechanic! I had pliers in my hands far more often than I ever had yarn. I ended up with a small scarf and a very intimate knowledge of the mechanism. The more modern machines produce a stretchier yarn, so it's not quite right. :-/ -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 17:17:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LLHLOL018308 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:17:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LLGG76011630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:16:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LLGFiO025353; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:16:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LLGBiO025286 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:16:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12])h9LIbgd08412 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 209-165-50-155.jps.net ([209.165.50.155] helo=pavilion) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AC1Ny-0003KC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:37:38 -0700 Message-ID: <006101c39803$06389080$4032a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031020002117.37426.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com><001601c396ad$06a9b640$3e2ea5d1@pavilion> <001501c39784$48765e20$e02da5d1@pavilion> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:21:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Curled Cypress & "Crape" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've had a glance through The New Draperies in the Low Countries and England and found nothing on cypress. Janet Arnold speculates in QEWU that in addition to being made solely of silk or solely of linen, it might be made with a linen warp and silk weft, but no reference as to why she thinks this. This may be where I picked the blend notion up from. Arnold used Linthicum's book so maybe she picked up this thought from "Costume in the Drama of Shakespeare and his Contemporaries", in any case after looking I have found no period reference for a silk/linen blend cypress, just silk or linen. The New Draperies book does talk about the introduction of wool "crape" as a product produced in Norwich with probate records giving evidence of its first appearance in 1670s. While this is much later than Elizabethan times, I am finding quite a bit of talk and evidence of supple fabric blends used during this time period even though I had always thought of Elizabethan fabric as being rather stiff. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 8:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curled Cypress (was hose/stockings) > I would not interpret these quotes as a blend either Chris. These sources > say silk or linen not a combination but I do have a very interesting book > called "The New Draperies in the Low Countries and England" that I have > skimmed through that deals quite a bit with silk/linen/cotton/wool blends > and somehow in my head I seem to recall a silk/linen combo called Cypress > but I could be wrong. I've a nasty flu at the moment, but after some sleep > I'll have a look and see if my memory serves me correctly. > > Lisa Sinervo > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Laning" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 2:50 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curled Cypress (was hose/stockings) > > > > At 6:53 PM -0700 10/19/03, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > >Cypress as a linen/silk blend can be found in Linthicum's book Costume in > > >the Drama of Shakespeare and his Contemporaries. She used Minsheu's > Guide > > >unto Tongues from 1599 -"Gaca, a kind of silke stuffe lyke cypers" and > > >Florio's dictionary, 1598 "Velitta, also a kind of fine lawne or > cypresse." > > >as references. Also from 1611 but not sure where, maybe Florio - "bauero, > a > > >stuffe made of raw silk as curled cipers." Cypress was a fabric from > > >Cypress, and it came in a plain or crepe weave. If crepe, it was often > > >called "crespe", "crespin" or "creppin". - (Florio 1598 for this > reference.) > > >Could also be called "curled cipers" vs. "plain cipers" > > > > Interesting. If that's what her original sources said, I would be > > more likely to interpret it quite differently. Finding it described > > in one place as silk and in a different place as linen would > > certainly _not_ lead me to interpret it as a linen/silk blend -- > > rather I would think it was a description of how the fabric looked or > > was woven, regardless of fiber content. I would also want to see more > > documentation of what "crespe" or "creppin" meant in period. My > > understanding is that this is one of the problems with Linthicum -- > > that it relies exclusively on a few types of documentary evidence, > > rather than taking other things into account. > > -- > > _________________________________________________________ > > O Chris Laning > > | > > + Davis, California > > _________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 17:23:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LLN6OL018321 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:23:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LLMK76012334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:22:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LLMHiO000684; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:22:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LLM5iO000524 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:22:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id h9LLM4Ap016633 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:22:04 -0400 Message-Id: <200310212122.h9LLM4Ap016633@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:17:53 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: more on Hose/stockings From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa Sinervo said: > > 'stockinges manie tymes are made verye defective > > the feete beinge made of Another sort of yarne > > and too Little for the proporcion of the Legge.' I've seen plenty of extant 18thC hose with the feet of undued yarn or possibly a scrap yarn. Why use good yarn where it won't show? :-) I hadn't seen them made with poorer quality yarn in the feet, but then again the cheap, defective hose would not be as likely to survive. Also perhaps by the 18thC the industry had more standards. > > I wonder if there are very many people around > > with knitting machines that would take a commission > > on a pair or two? Or do popular knitting machines > > produce such a fine gauge fabric? No, unfortunatley they don't. I have a "fine guage" home knititng machine, and it's nowhere close to what I see in extant stockings. Then again, I am looking at later stockings, so maybe it's fine enough for 16th century. The problem is getting a tight, solid knit. I can only turn the tension up so high before the machine starts groaning and creaking and I fear I'll bend it into an unuseable shape! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 17:46:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LLkFOL018359 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:46:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LLjL76014520 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:45:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LLjKiO020454; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:45:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [66.136.30.169]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LLjDiO020363 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:45:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from escom.antek [192.168.0.151] by web.antekhou.com (SMTPD32-8.00) id A8E711C103CC; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:45:11 -0500 Received: From PACws22 ([65.45.18.250]) by escom.antek (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 1066772709233; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:45:09 -0500 Message-ID: <00a801c3981c$284320a0$0f64a8c0@algx> From: "Cyn Bucheger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200310212122.h9LLM4Ap016633@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: more on Hose/stockings Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:41:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Lisa Sinervo said: > > > 'stockinges manie tymes are made verye defective > > > the feete beinge made of Another sort of yarne > > > and too Little for the proporcion of the Legge.' > > I've seen plenty of extant 18thC hose with the feet of undued yarn or > possibly a scrap yarn. Why use good yarn where it won't show? :-) I hadn't > seen them made with poorer quality yarn in the feet, but then again the cheap, > defective hose would not be as likely to survive. Also perhaps by the 18thC > the industry had more standards. > > In the hand knitting book that I have from the early 1940s, it shows how to make the sole of one's socks so that they are replaceable. Also doing the sole separate would allow one to reinforce all or part of it. certainly heels and toes need more strength that the leg. Cynthia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 18:13:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LMDMOL018396 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:13:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LMCU76016859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:12:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LMCR1E013585; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:12:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LMCO1E013532 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:12:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id h9LMCOAp014276 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:12:24 -0400 Message-Id: <200310212212.h9LMCOAp014276@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:08:13 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: more on Hose/stockings From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO They weren't reinforcing the stockings in the 18thC, and in fact in the 19thC women would add reinforcing yarns to their stocking heels before wearing them. I've seen that both on extant stockings and on a sampler! The heel was made in one with the leg, and the sole of the foot (from just forward of the heel to the toes) was a separate piece as a way to construct the hose from flat knit pieces. Unfortunately it wasn't a way to easily remove the worn heels, and if the toes were worn at the top then they would also have to be darned rather than replaced. The Metropolitan Museum of Art has a pair from about 1790 that have had the feet removed, so they are sort of like a combination of leg warmers and spats. They're fancy silk stockings, so perhaps once the feet were worn out they were worn over a pair on intact plain hose. Or maybe they were not worn after the feet were removed, maybe someone did that to "preserve" them. -Carol > In the hand knitting book that I have from the early 1940s, it shows how to > make the sole of one's socks so that they are replaceable. Also doing the > sole separate would allow one to reinforce all or part of it. certainly > heels and toes need more strength that the leg. > Cynthia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 18:26:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LMQnOL018411 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:26:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LMQ276018011 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LMQ11E023949; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9LMPw1E023920 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:25:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-126-116.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.126.116]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9LMPR7V009662 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:25:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031021151346.04c75690@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:15:49 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, sorta: Stripper pants In-Reply-To: References: <200310172034.h9HKY1aW018354@net.indra.com> <200310172034.h9HKY1aW018354@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >The Great Costume Holiday is fast approaching and I need a pattern for >stripper pants (like Britteny Spears wears...) You who know me will be >glad to know they are not for me ! But to sew a demented costume >for a friend...So any hints, sources???? It was my privilege to see a pair of these pants in action a couple of weeks ago, on the sexiest male stripper I ever watched. They were fastened all the way down each side with something like Velcro or snaps, such that when he grabbed the front and pulled, the whole thing came off in his hand. I don't know what Britteney Spears wears. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 20:09:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9M09POL018748 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:09:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M08M76025901 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:08:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M08KH0001780; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:08:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M08HH0001751 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:08:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-44-184.jps.net ([209.165.44.184] helo=pavilion) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AC6Xw-00033q-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:08:16 -0700 Message-ID: <001e01c39831$33717980$b82ca5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200310212122.h9LLM4Ap016633@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: more on Hose/stockings Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:12:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I guess that spares me from trying to find a second hand knitting machine, although it'd be fun to have one anyway, but then you said perhaps it would work for 16th century. More digging required. Are the images from HistoricKnit available to the public for viewing? I'd love to see what the knitting frames looked like or even your drawing of one. A month in Nottingham, it just amazes me the various experiences people on this list have had! Cheers, Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: more on Hose/stockings > Lisa Sinervo said: > > > 'stockinges manie tymes are made verye defective > > > the feete beinge made of Another sort of yarne > > > and too Little for the proporcion of the Legge.' > > I've seen plenty of extant 18thC hose with the feet of undued yarn or > possibly a scrap yarn. Why use good yarn where it won't show? :-) I hadn't > seen them made with poorer quality yarn in the feet, but then again the cheap, > defective hose would not be as likely to survive. Also perhaps by the 18thC > the industry had more standards. > > > > I wonder if there are very many people around > > > with knitting machines that would take a commission > > > on a pair or two? Or do popular knitting machines > > > produce such a fine gauge fabric? > > No, unfortunatley they don't. I have a "fine guage" home knititng > machine, and it's nowhere close to what I see in extant stockings. Then again, > I am looking at later stockings, so maybe it's fine enough for 16th century. > > The problem is getting a tight, solid knit. I can only turn the tension > up so high before the machine starts groaning and creaking and I fear I'll bend > it into an unuseable shape! > > -Carol > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 22:53:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9M2rcOL019188 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:53:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M2qT76004243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:52:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M2qAi9020729; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:52:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12008.mail.yahoo.com (web12008.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.216]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9M2q8i9020707 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:52:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031022024527.12749.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.242] by web12008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:45:27 PDT Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:45:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] slovak sewing pattern translation X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, Wondering through the local university stacks I found a book of patterns of some national (?) costumes from one of the slovakia areas of the world. No English on the book but the pictures look like they are from various regions with related but slightly different clothes. The pages fold out into patterns with words on them like mere: gornja sirina. The sketches look like shirts with jumpers and aprons. The forward (?) is signed Dr. Marija Makaovic from marca 1971. Where on-line can I find a dictionary of words that I don't need to know the language but I can still look up the word? They are a fascinating look at rectangular construction and I think the words on the pattern pieces are things like top and bottom and cuff and such-like. I'd like to try some of the shirt patterns but could use help with the words to make sure none of the pieces are being put together weird. Thanks for any help with the translations. Cassandra __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 22:55:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9M2tWOL019202 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:55:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M2sM76004320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:54:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M2sLi9021749; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:54:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.surewest.net (smtp2.surewest.net [208.45.228.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9M2sJi9021690 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:54:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 24885 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 02:27:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21) (66.205.128.11) by smtp2.surewest.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 02:27:34 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031021191235.00bc2800@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:27:31 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hose/stockings In-Reply-To: <006901c39804$00031900$4032a5d1@pavilion> References: <000501c397d3$1a5c3510$736453d8@Kass> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2 SNWK2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, the knitting frame that Lee came up with could only produce fairly coarse knit stockings, and he did not receive a patent from Queen Elizabeth because she said that she did not want to take work from the many poor folk who earned their income from knitting. She did say that *if* he had produced a frame that could be used for silk hose, she might have given him the patent because the market for silk hose was so small that it would not cause widespread unemployment. I'm certain that there is someone with some more accurate information on gauge of some of the preserved stockings (see Rutt, "A History of Hand Knitting" for pictures), but judging from the pictures, I would say that at least 15 to 25 stitches to the inch (for silk) would not be unreasonable. Joan in Sacramento, CA knitter and Elizabethan re-enactor At 11:49 AM 10/21/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Thanks for this link, plus the silk knit supplier. I'm a big fan of silk >knit camisoles and long johns for snowy weather, warmth without the bulk. I >bet a pair of silk hose from this sort of fabric would be very nice. Do you >have any idea of what gauge Lee's 16th century knitting machines produced? >Carol? Anyone? I bet there must be a few second hand knitting machines on >the market that wouldn't be too hard to program to produce a pair of flat >knit hose......... > >Lisa - off in dreamland again!!!! > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Kass McGann" >To: "'Historical Costume'" >Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 5:58 AM >Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings > > > > Lisa wrote: > > < > had > > seams running down the back of the hose, I think sewing a pair from some > > purchased knit fabric would not be a terribly bad substitute.>> > > > > In the 18th century, stockings sewn together from frame knitted silk was > > rather de rigeur. Look here: > > http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/18thc/silkstockings.html > > > > Kass > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 23:06:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9M36eOL019277 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:06:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M35t76004913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:05:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M35YaP027483; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:05:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9M35VaP027426 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:05:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-119-195-69.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.119.195.69 with login) by smtp1.bt.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 03:05:25 -0000 Message-ID: <02ab01c39849$56b51b50$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004601c397f4$8d479940$4032a5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The End of Northern Faire Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:05:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm actually surprised, although we all know that the character of the REC faires has changed a lot over the years. For those northern Calif. faire people, some interesting news from another list I'm on: > From: "Bill Watters" > > Well it's not Northern, but... > > The petition to hold an event was passed by the San Francisco Parks and > Recreation division last Thursday, and so it's on - the Golden Gate > Renaissance Faire, making it's debut in 2004, August 28th & 29th (the > last weekend of August). > > The venue will be Golden Gate park, San Francisco. Just off of the Polo > fields in the area called Speedway Meadow. For a link to an image > looking down the site - http://www.mistersf.com/images/ggpspee02.jpg > should give you an idea. The location can be seen on this map > http://www.sfgate.com/traveler/acrobat/maps/1999/ggparkmap.pdf labeled > as 13 > d%20as%2013> , angled between the number and down towards the text > "middle drive west". > > Look for more information to follow. Is this at all a replacement for > Northern, no, not by any wild stretch of the imagination. It's a single > weekend event, but bringing some of the magic into the City. The current > webpage for information on the faire is at > http://www.renaissance-web.net/sffaire/ and will be being updated over > the next several days now that the permits are all in place. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 21 23:55:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9M3tAOL019455 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:55:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M3sL76007441 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:54:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M3sFaP020595; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:54:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M3s8aP020471 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:54:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 7.171.2545a1ca (4246) for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:53:55 -0400 (EDT) From: SNSpies@aol.com Message-ID: <171.2545a1ca.2cc75953@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:53:55 EDT To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_171.2545a1ca.2cc75953_boundary" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 920 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: muffs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --part1_171.2545a1ca.2cc75953_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought some on this list might like to have this information. Nancy Here is what I've found so far concerning muffs within the SCA time period. I would be grateful to learn of any other references. Arnold, Janet. "Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd". Leeds: Maney, 1988. This is your best source for information which includes a painting of QEI holding a large embroidered muff. Norris, "Tudor Costume and Fashion" (I don't have the full citation information for this). In a message posted by Alexandria (Cynthia Bucheger) to the old sca-arts email list (19 Jan 1999), says that on page 612, there is "in an accounting of Elizabeth I's wardrobe, dated 1600, there is a listing of a Muff, or snoskyn or snuftkin. It's described as being introduced toward the end of her reign. Picture evidence is scarce, but there is a miniature dated 1590s that has a muff in it, sketch of which looks like the typical muff. Norris goes on to describe snoskyns given to Elizabeth as gifts, made of 'saten' and perfumed leather, embroidered with venice gold, silver and silk, another snoskyns gift is a pair, one for each hand, made of 'cloth of silver, embroidered all over with flowers and braunches of Venice, silver and silk of sondry colors.' " Yarwood, Doreen. "The Encyclopedia of World Costume". New York: Bonanza, 1978. "Muffs were carried from the later sixteenth century onwards." (page 294) Lester, Katherine Morris. "Historic Costume". Peoria: Chas. A. Bennett, 1967. 17th century info about muffs including "a caprice new to the period, however, was the affection bestowed upon the muff and the little muff-dog. The muff was small, and the dog, even more diminutive, was carried within its copy depths." (page 127) There is further information about muffs, again all out of SCA time period, however. Beck, Thomasina. "The Embroiderer's Story". Newton Abbott: David and Charles, 1999. "The New Year gift list of 1600 records a 'snoskyn' (muff) of cloth of silvers, 'embroidered all over with flowers of Venice gold, silver and silk of sundry colours,' offered to Queen Elizabeth by Lady Hoby, but there is nothing in the diary to say whether she embroidered such a muff herself, bought it ready-made, or commissioned it from a professional." (page 22) Weiss, Francis. "Furred Serpents, Snuffskins and Stomachers", in "Costume", No. 7 (1973): 47-49. Here are the pertinent paragraphs -- "In Stuart days detachable sleeves in all colours and shapes formed a large proportion of elegant folk's wardrobe, these items of clothing most probably begetting the idea of the muff." "Allegedly the muff, the Walloons called them 'mouffe', the Italians 'manicone' or 'manichino', the French 'manchon', was a Polish invention. However, knowing the Chinese, Russians, and the Magyars, I am convinced that each of them lays claim to this precedence." "Whatever the case may be, the first mention of a muff is apparently in 1483, then under the name 'snuffkin'. This expression had many variants, and these seem to arise from mistakes in transcription. To mention a few: snufkin, skimskyn, snoskyn, etc., all signifying the same article, namely some material, worked in cylindrical form, into which both hands are thrust from opposite ends, for comfort." "The earliest illustration of a muff we could find is a woodcut in the 1567 edition of 'Recueil de la diversite des habits', an English Lady wearing a tiny snuffkin, fastened on what appears to be a cord, chain or band." (This woodcut is shown in the article.) "Among various warrants and accounts preserved at the London Public Record Office are several by Adam Blande, skinner. He charges in 1583 ten shillings for 'furring' with five genette skins a seed-pearl embroidered, tawny coloured velvet snuffkin. In 1587 Queen Elizabeth's Great Wardrobe is debited by him with 7 Pounds for the supply of one lynx, five shipping each for four Russian squirrel-skins, and ten shillings for making the muff. Two years later we find that Blande is asking one shilling per skin for thirty ermine, and one Pound for manufacturing this snuffkin. His price for mending one swandown and one lynx-skin was 3/4 sh. each." "The lists of New Year's Gifts to Queen Elizabeth in 1589 and 1599 contain many detailed descriptions of muffs. These items bear witness to the fantastic splendour displayed during the Renaissance, the Tudors of course no exception. At their court for a modest present, namely a snuffkin, the most precious dress-materials, perfumed leather, gems, pearls, gold and silver threads were used." Nevinson, John L. "Catalogue of English Domestic Embroidery". London: Victoria and Albert, 1938. "... there are no French gowns, no petticoats, kirtles, safeguards, mantles, tippets, snoskins (muffs) or pantobles (slippers) that have come down to us ... and the identification of many of the embroideries presented to Queen Elizabeth as New Year's Gifts can only be by guesswork." (page 77) Ingvild * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Ingvild Josefsdatter (Nancy Spies) textiles and research, Atlantia http://www.weavershand.com/ArelateStudio.html --part1_171.2545a1ca.2cc75953_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --part1_171.2545a1ca.2cc75953_boundary-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 00:38:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9M4c2OL019558 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:38:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M4bG76009493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:37:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M4bFOP009399; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:37:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M4bCOQ009308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:37:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-223.sonic.net [209.148.112.223]) (authenticated bits=0)h9M4b6EL019970 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:37:06 -0700 Message-ID: <3F960A14.4080209@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:39:48 -0700 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] slovak sewing pattern translation References: <20031022024527.12749.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031022024527.12749.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What is the book title and what language is it in? Fran Cascio Michael wrote: >Hi all, > Wondering through the local university stacks I >found a book of patterns of some national (?) costumes >from one of the slovakia areas of the world. No >English on the book but the pictures look like they >are from various regions with related but slightly >different clothes. > -------------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 01:04:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9M543OL019632 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:04:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M53K76010653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:03:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M53HeK020136; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:03:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M53FeK020102 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:03:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.249.181.81] (pool181-81.patriot.net [209.249.181.81]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9M53CAq016414 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:03:14 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001e01c39831$33717980$b82ca5d1@pavilion> References: <200310212122.h9LLM4Ap016633@jefferson.patriot.net> <001e01c39831$33717980$b82ca5d1@pavilion> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:03:42 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: more on Hose/stockings Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Lisa, I'm not sure what the list setting are, if photo files are for members only or not. It's easy enough to join the list, . -Carol >Well, I guess that spares me from trying to find a second hand >knitting machine, although it'd be fun to have one anyway, but then >you said perhaps it would work for 16th century. More digging >required. Are the images from HistoricKnit available to the public >for viewing? I'd love to see what the knitting frames looked like >or even your drawing of one. A month in Nottingham, it just >amazes me the various experiences people on this list have had! > >Cheers, > >Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 02:28:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9M6SJOL028740 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:28:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M6RW76013056 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:27:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M6RU7n024245; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:27:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M6RQ7n024212 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:27:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h9M5ZdOP016235 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:35:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.138] (tnt-1-202.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.138])h9M5ZXh7016131; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:35:36 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20031022024527.12749.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031022024527.12749.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:27:20 -0700 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@net.indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] slovak sewing pattern translation Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 7:45 PM -0700 10/21/03, Cascio Michael wrote: >Hi all, > Wondering through the local university stacks I >found a book of patterns of some national (?) costumes >from one of the slovakia areas of the world. No >English on the book but the pictures look like they >are from various regions with related but slightly >different clothes. The pages fold out into patterns >with words on them like mere: gornja sirina. The >sketches look like shirts with jumpers and aprons. >The forward (?) is signed Dr. Marija Makaovic from >marca 1971. Where on-line can I find a dictionary of >words that I don't need to know the language but I can >still look up the word? They are a fascinating look >at rectangular construction and I think the words on >the pattern pieces are things like top and bottom and >cuff and such-like. I'd like to try some of the shirt >patterns but could use help with the words to make >sure none of the pieces are being put together weird. If you can extract a city of publication from the publication information, that will give you a strong lead on what language is involved. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 02:30:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9M6UNOL029544 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:30:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M6TD76013147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:29:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M6TD7n025154; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:29:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20208.mail.yahoo.com (web20208.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9M6TA7n025136 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:29:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031022052909.92491.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.179] by web20208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:29:09 EST Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:29:09 +1000 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: muffs To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200310220355.h9M3sjaS020778@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Message: 14 > Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:53:55 EDT > From: SNSpies@aol.com > Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: muffs > > I thought some on this list might like to have this information. > Nancy > > Here is what I've found so far concerning muffs within the SCA time period. > I would be grateful to learn of any other references. Thank you so much for sharing this Nancy! I have had a particular interest in muffs since I first saw the Venetian ladies in Vecellios book of woodcuts (1590) carrying them. I have the Dover book, and there are two images of women carrying muffs. I've also seen a muff in a portrait of Minerva, the artist's sister by Sofonisba Anguissola, 1559: > "Allegedly the muff, the Walloons called them 'mouffe', the Italians > 'manicone' or 'manichino', Florio's "World of Words" Italian/English dictionary gives Manichino as "a little haft or handle", but does list manicone as "a great sleeve, manchon, muffe or snufkin". Also listed are: Manetta - a muffe, a snufkin, a mitton. Manezza - a manchon, a sleeve, a muffe, a mitton, a snufkin, a long glove. Bella The Realm of Venus http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 02:30:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9M6UcOL029654 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:30:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M6Rt76013076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:27:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M6Rt7n024412; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:27:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M6RR7n024223 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:27:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h9M5ZdON016235 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:35:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.138] (tnt-1-202.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.138])h9M5ZXh7016131; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:35:36 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20031022024527.12749.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031022024527.12749.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:27:20 -0700 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@net.indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] slovak sewing pattern translation Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 7:45 PM -0700 10/21/03, Cascio Michael wrote: >Hi all, > Wondering through the local university stacks I >found a book of patterns of some national (?) costumes >from one of the slovakia areas of the world. No >English on the book but the pictures look like they >are from various regions with related but slightly >different clothes. The pages fold out into patterns >with words on them like mere: gornja sirina. The >sketches look like shirts with jumpers and aprons. >The forward (?) is signed Dr. Marija Makaovic from >marca 1971. Where on-line can I find a dictionary of >words that I don't need to know the language but I can >still look up the word? They are a fascinating look >at rectangular construction and I think the words on >the pattern pieces are things like top and bottom and >cuff and such-like. I'd like to try some of the shirt >patterns but could use help with the words to make >sure none of the pieces are being put together weird. If you can extract a city of publication from the publication information, that will give you a strong lead on what language is involved. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 02:47:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9M6l3OL003573 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:47:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M6kL76013993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:46:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M6kK7n004465; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:46:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M6kH7n004431 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:46:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.197.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.197] helo=4gxif) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ACCl7-0006c8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:46:17 -0400 Message-ID: <036101c39868$3366c620$c5f74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031022024527.12749.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] slovak sewing pattern translation Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:46:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try this site- it has 265 dictionaries with 70 source languages and 74 target languages. Use the search options on the left side of the screen. Hope it helps, -Helen/Aidan http://www.foreignword.com/Tools/dictsrch.asp?p=files/f_118_40.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 03:44:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9M7i2OL023355 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 03:44:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M7hG76016173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:43:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M7hCxP029111; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:43:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9M7h9xP029077 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:43:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0509.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.254]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 366491A032C for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:43:04 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F96362C.9010304@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:47:56 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thanks for word def. References: <3F94BC82.8060903@pcez.com> <3F94D550.8040905@kabelfoon.nl> <3F952FEE.53E6E2A@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know in the text I found it, it was a neckprotektion for a horse. http://home.planet.nl/~graafschap.middeleeuwen/zegels/reinald2.html Op de dekkleden van het paard en de halsbeschermer (ailette) de leeuwen omgewend. And I found this http://www.brainydictionary.com/words/ai/ailette128401.html n.) A small square shield, formerly worn on the shoulders of knights, -- being the prototype of the modern epaulet. Epaulette http://home.rdnet.nl/svanleeuwen/refdag/artikelen/a0006.html de eerste epauletten waren bedoeld om te voorkomen dat de uitrustingstukken afgleden. Langzaam ontwikkelde de epaulet zich tot een rangonderscheidingsteken The fhirst epauletten were ment to prevent armour pieses from sliding down. Slowely the epaulet devolleped in to a rank decoration I think it depends how it is used in the original text. I don't think the word is originally dutch and I think this word has a different, or slightly different meaning in different languages. Maby they are the leather straps on a gemberson to keep the schoulder and armpieses on???????? Greetings, Deredere Sue Clemenger wrote: >Like a gorget? >--sue > >Deredere Galbraith wrote: > > >>In dutch ailette means neckprotector >> >>Roscelin wrote: >> >> >> >>>Greetings to one all, >>> Thank you to everyone who has helped me out with the myserterious >>>word. I wish I could reply to each of you, but I'm right in the >>>middle of class/home work. >>> Yes, the word did turn out to be from the Netherlands. What is >>>now confusing is that in the book I originally got the word from, the >>>author is using it alternately with "ailette". Which some of us >>>already know is French for "wing" of "fin". Can anyone help me >>>figure out how in the world the author could be using a word meaning >>>"gambison" with a word that means "wing" or "fin"? Also note, that >>>the ailette is worn outside of the armor at the shoulders. And the >>>gambison is worn under the armor. >>> I'm confused! Or my mind is just bonkers because of my >>>class/home work. :) >>> Thank you again for your wonderful help. I really do appreciate >>>it. >>> >>>In the Service of Many Dreams, >>>Roscelin >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>h-costume mailing list >>>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 08:35:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9MCZZOL026921 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:35:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MCYf76027204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:34:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MCYZpZ020816; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:34:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MCYWpZ020799 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:34:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 16-72.tnt-3.harrisburg.supernet.com ([64.41.16.72] helo=[64.41.16.192]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ACIC5-0001Xu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:34:31 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200310220354.h9M3sjaR020778@net.indra.com> References: <200310220354.h9M3sjaR020778@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:34:22 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 689 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 9:54 PM -0600 10/21/03, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >It was my privilege to see a pair of these pants in action a couple of >weeks ago, on the sexiest male stripper I ever watched. They were fastened >all the way down each side with something like Velcro or snaps, such that >when he grabbed the front and pulled, the whole thing came off in his >hand. I don't know what Britteney Spears wears. Thanks, I guess I need to get out more, do some research !!! Ta Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 08:43:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9MChMOL026972 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:43:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MCgU76027602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:42:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MCgSpZ024466; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:42:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MCgQpZ024449 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:42:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-009scfairp0224.dialsprint.net ([63.189.144.224] helo=faucet.net) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ACIJm-0003EG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 05:42:26 -0700 Message-ID: <3F968927.8000706@faucet.net> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:41:59 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, sorta: Stripper pants References: <200310172034.h9HKY1aW018354@net.indra.com> <200310172034.h9HKY1aW018354@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20031021151346.04c75690@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > It was my privilege to see a pair of these pants in action a couple of > weeks ago, on the sexiest male stripper I ever watched. They were > fastened all the way down each side with something like Velcro or snaps, > such that when he grabbed the front and pulled, the whole thing came off > in his hand. I don't know what Britteney Spears wears. I haven't been following this thread, so apologies if this is repeat info, but often pants that are built to instantly disappear like this for the theatre have snap tape up the outseams. There are different kinds of snap tape, but you can get fairly flimsy stuff that will just come apart if you pull. Good luck, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume http://www.coastal.edu/theater _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 08:55:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9MCtpOL027012 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:55:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MCt676028332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:55:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MCt5ak000915; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:55:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MCt2ak000879 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])h9MCt1JT023129 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:55:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031022084720.00bae328@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:55:04 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] slovak sewing pattern translation In-Reply-To: <20031022024527.12749.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey there Cassandra... Well if you can read any of the letters at all, ie using the Latin alphabet, you're looking at Polish or possibly Magyar, maybe a remote Romanian (really doubt that). All the other Eastern European languages use the Cyrillic Alphabet. My bet would be Polish. gornja sirina = dress for a "woman" or "princess" sorry don't speak Polish, but do other EE. languages. Good luck. Bridgette >Hi all, > Wondering through the local university stacks I >found a book of patterns of some national (?) costumes >from one of the slovakia areas of the world. No > >Thanks for any help with the translations. > Cassandra Mari Stewart glad that REES MIPS finally came in handy ; > Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 09:07:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9MD7aOL027048 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:07:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MD6v76028962 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 07:06:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MD6uak006860; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 07:06:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from exchange.lynchburg.edu ([161.115.184.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MD6rak006839 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 07:06:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by exchange.lynchburg.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <40X25Y3A>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:06:53 -0400 Message-ID: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA9525@exchange.lynchburg.edu> From: "Formo, Nathan" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:06:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [h-cost] RE: Pants Question - PICTURES!! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you for the compliments. Glad to hear that I had "true waist" pretty much figured out. Of course that does mean that I need to work on that doublet now. Oh well, I needed another project besides the pair of long pants for winter and the cloak I was going to work on if I ever got time. The dance style was a mix. Basically it was ballet using as much of an original form as we could. Not truly period dance but not exactly modern ballet either. The duet however stretched more into modern ballet styles. I haven't been able to study period dance very much yet but I somehow doubt that a lot of the lifts and dips that we used are that old. I have yet to see paintings in museums of court dances with the women balanced like that. And oddly enough I'm technically not in the right garb for that event. It was supposed to be more Colonial themed. But the costuming decision went sort of like this. "We can either make him a new costume or we can let him use a costume he already owns that looks good." Since the girls costumes were still being finished up into the last days before the event they were happy to let me use what I had. Now it does make me stand out a bit. But then I stand out in that group anyway. The only male and about a foot taller on average. I figure if I'm going to stand out I may as well look good doing it. I did have to laugh at one view point. The mother of the girl in the duet greeted me that morning with this line, "So are you ready to dance with your Frumpy French Maid?" I think that captured the spirit of it. Bjorn Arnaldsson > > You look great! They look great! I wish I had been following the > discussion earlier. > > A person's waist is not necessarily where his/belly button > is. Often when > we are unsure where it is (this mostly occurs with heavier > people) we tie a > piece of elastic snuggly 'round where we think it is and then > ask the person > to move about. The elastic will settle where the natural > waist is. Sounds > to me like your pants are settling where they should. But > then you do have > to adjust your doublet length to match it. > > What type of dance is this called? Not to be critical, but > why are you the > only one dressed in period garb? > > > Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 09:27:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9MDRTOL027192 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:27:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MDLl76029894 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 07:21:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MDLkak014143; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 07:21:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MDLiak014126 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 07:21:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])h9MDLhJT015859 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031022091843.00b7a7c0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:21:48 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] slovak sewing pattern translation In-Reply-To: <20031022024527.12749.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Cassandra, I did a little more looking and found sites with a consistent country code of BA. Which is the two-character ISO 3166 country code for BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA. So you might have come across a Bosnian resource. http://www.zemaljskimuzej.ba/images/etnologija/anterija.htm This site has some examples of gornja. Best of luck. Bridgette > Wondering through the local university stacks I >found a book of patterns of some national (?) costumes > and >cuff and such-like. I'd like to try some of the shirt >patterns but could use help with the words to make >sure none of the pieces are being put together weird. >Thanks for any help with the translations. Mari Stewart who just can't seem to get working today ; > Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 10:29:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9METsOL027581 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:29:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MET076003815 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MESwCu022666; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:28:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MEStCu022554 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:28:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B8AD425CE for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:32:49 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3F9694A6.5090500@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:31:02 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, sorta: Stripper pants References: <200310172034.h9HKY1aW018354@net.indra.com> <200310172034.h9HKY1aW018354@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20031021151346.04c75690@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031021151346.04c75690@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > It was my privilege to see a pair of these pants in action a couple of > weeks ago, on the sexiest male stripper I ever watched. They were > fastened all the way down each side with something like Velcro or snaps, > such that when he grabbed the front and pulled, the whole thing came off > in his hand. I don't know what Britteney Spears wears. Not quite as exciting, but a roommate in college had a pair of these ... for hiking. Seems it can get cold in the mountains at night and then warm up pretty rapidly when the sun comes up. The idea was to have a pair of wool pants that could be removed easily without completely undressing on the trail. They were ordinary pants taken apart with velcro dots on the side seams. Grab at the waist and pull, and they come off, even if they are under an outer layer of waterproof clothing. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 12:00:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9MG0OOL028419 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:00:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MFxe76011779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:59:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MFxa7X011235; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:59:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MFxW7X011109 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:59:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.79.1b5fcdeb (17377) for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:59:22 -0400 (EDT) From: SNSpies@aol.com Message-ID: <79.1b5fcdeb.2cc8035a@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:59:22 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: muffs To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have had a particular interest in muffs since I first saw the Venetian ladies in Vecellios book of woodcuts (1590) carrying them. I have the Dover book, and there are two images of women carrying muffs. I've also seen a muff in a portrait of Minerva, the artist's sister by Sofonisba Anguissola, 1559: http://www.csupomona.edu/~plin/women/womenart.html Boy, if there's a muff in that picture, it's sure hard to distinguish, Bella! Love those dark Renaissance portraits! I thank you for this, however, and have happily added it to the file. Could you please give the full citation for the book of woodcuts? I'd like to order the book. Nancy * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Nancy Spies Arelate Studio www.weavershand.com/ArelateStudio.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 12:08:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9MG8SOL028524 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:08:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MG7K76012571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:07:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MG7J7X018349; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:07:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13407.mail.yahoo.com (web13407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9MG7G7X018283 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:07:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031022160715.53636.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.170] by web13407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:07:15 PDT Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:07:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <010301c39530$ed3be480$cb6afea9@shooie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] polar bear trousers, was wool in summer X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Polar bear trousers? Sounds intriguing, can you tell us more? -- Mara --- Sheridan & Shane wrote: > Heh, > Winter has its own set of troubles, I have often been tempted to > make a pair > of polar bear trousers like the ones in the'Danish Textiles' book. > ;-) > > Sheridan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 12:32:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9MGWVOL028902 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:32:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MGVn76014920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:31:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MGVl7X010669; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:31:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13409.mail.yahoo.com (web13409.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9MGVh7X010616 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:31:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031022163143.83341.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.170] by web13409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:31:43 PDT Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:31:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000501c397d3$1a5c3510$736453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Godwin sells hand-knit stockings: http://www.gggodwin.com/stockings.htm The stitch gauge is a bit large for the period, however. Cheers, Mara __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 12:36:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9MGaBOL028923 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:36:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MGZ476015202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:35:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MGZ37X013575; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:35:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13402.mail.yahoo.com (web13402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9MGYt7X013458 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:35:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031022163455.70809.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.170] by web13402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:34:55 PDT Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:34:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] bias binding To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000c01c3973b$a80154b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Isn't that supposed to go the other way 'round -- you put the right side of the binding to the right side (on the outside) of the stays, with the edges even, sew it on, then flip the binding over to the inside and whipstitch it down? Cheers, Mara --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi Kat. > Yes you are right, it is not as difficult as i thoaght it might be. > I simply whipstitch the binding to the tabs on the backside, and > then i turn > and fold, and use some other stitches, wich i dont know what is > called in > english, to make a nice front. > I am making this corset in silk taffeta, and it is very hard to > stitch in, > but it goes, all right. > I think it would be much easyer to stitch in linen. > > Bjarne __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 15:30:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9MJUjOL002591 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:30:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MJTo76002461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:29:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MJTco8024190; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:29:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MJTZo8024144 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:29:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7befb.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.251]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1A8DC480102 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:29:34 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c398d3$483dd8c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031022163455.70809.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] bias binding Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:32:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Mara, Perhaps this is a better way? But i think (especially in the bottom of the tabs, where you have to make a sharp corner) that it holds better, when you whipstitch here, then turn over and sew invisible stitches. I have a lot to learn yeat, specially when it comes to use the original ways of doing things. And when you once have made it, it should be easyer to use these old teckniques in future works. I also think, that most people just sew together all the pieces of the corset into 2 whole corsets, turns them together right side to right side and then fold out. But as i understand, this is wrong. Each section is finished first with the boning and all, and then whipstitches to the next section. But i must admit, that i have never done that. Perhaps i should try that next time. Perhaps it will end up, that i stitch in hand all the bone channels arghhhhhhhhhh!!!! I have just finished all the tabs, and made the eyholes, so now i am ready to fill in all the bones. This is always the funniest part for me, to se the shape grow with the bones. Especially when you make the horizontal bones in the front, it is incredible how it works!!! Another thing, it really would be much nicer when you stitch all the channels in hand, then there will not come all the ugly wrinkles that the machine makes, when you sew the channels. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mara Riley" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] bias binding > Isn't that supposed to go the other way 'round -- you put the right > side of the binding to the right side (on the outside) of the stays, > with the edges even, sew it on, then flip the binding over to the > inside and whipstitch it down? > > Cheers, > Mara > > --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hi Kat. > > Yes you are right, it is not as difficult as i thoaght it might be. > > I simply whipstitch the binding to the tabs on the backside, and > > then i turn > > and fold, and use some other stitches, wich i dont know what is > > called in > > english, to make a nice front. > > I am making this corset in silk taffeta, and it is very hard to > > stitch in, > > but it goes, all right. > > I think it would be much easyer to stitch in linen. > > > > Bjarne > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 15:51:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9MJpoOL002778 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:51:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MJm476004294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:48:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MJm3o8010554; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:48:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [66.136.30.169]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MJlwo8010441 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:47:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from escom.antek [192.168.0.151] by web.antekhou.com (SMTPD32-8.00) id AEEC1CC03A2; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:47:56 -0500 Received: From PACws22 ([65.45.18.250]) by escom.antek (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 1066852072119; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:47:52 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c398d4$eb303680$0f64a8c0@algx> From: "Cyn Bucheger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031022163455.70809.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> <000701c398d3$483dd8c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] bias binding Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:44:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Isn't that supposed to go the other way 'round -- you put the right > side of the binding to the right side (on the outside) of the stays, > with the edges even, sew it on, then flip the binding over to the > inside and whipstitch it down? > > > Unless he has something that says it has to be that way, I would think it would depend on what works best. I've had times that attaching to the front and whipstitching to the back works, and others when it comes out much neater when the finial closing is on the front side. Of course, I've been know to use decorative stitches instead of standard hand stitches to finish something off. I figure, if I have to do all this handwork anyway, it might as well be pretty and showy as well as functional. Cyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 16:09:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9MK9bOL003025 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:09:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MK8s76006336 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:08:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MK8nBN029306; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:08:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MK8hBN029205 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:08:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1ACPHa-0006v8-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:08:38 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:12:10 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 689 References: <200310220354.h9M3sjaR020778@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My Sindy had a pair of something similar, although being the 70's they were flared. (Very attractive lime green and pink big flowers, I seem to remember!) The front and back waist and inside seam were all fully sewn, as if you were going to make them with an elasticated waistband, but the outside seam was left open. My Sindy's trousers were wrap-around and tied at the side, but for tight ones you would use snaps or Velcro as described. Jean fastusminimus wrote >At 9:54 PM -0600 10/21/03, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >>It was my privilege to see a pair of these pants in action a couple of >>weeks ago, on the sexiest male stripper I ever watched. They were fastened >>all the way down each side with something like Velcro or snaps, such that >>when he grabbed the front and pulled, the whole thing came off in his >>hand. I don't know what Britteney Spears wears. > >Thanks, I guess I need to get out more, do some research !!! >Ta >Carol >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 16:36:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9MKaXOL003377 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:36:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MKZA76008875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:35:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9MKZ8BN023278; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:35:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13404.mail.yahoo.com (web13404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9MKZ4BN023228 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:35:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031022203504.71584.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.170] by web13404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:35:04 PDT Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:35:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031022052909.92491.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Help identifying picture - peasant dance/wedding X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I need some help, folks -- I found the following pic on my computer, but can't remember who the artist is: http://www.marariley.net/Temp/peasants.jpg Anyone know? Thanks, Mara __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 21:33:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9N1XPOL004566 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:33:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9N1Wc76000215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:32:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9N1WZBn018332; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:32:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9N1WMBn018222 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:32:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C00D836AFD for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:32:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1ACUKr-00046z-00 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:32:21 -0400 To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:32:21 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Subject: [h-cost] 16th century bobbin lace tools and techniques X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I seem to recall there are some bobbin lace afficionadoes on this list, so I hope you won't mind the slightly off topic post. Can anyone tell me where I might find information on the tools used by 16th century bobbin lace makers? What kind of bobbins, what kind of pillows, what were the pillows stuffed with, what did they use to make their prickings, and so on. The best I have currently found are a few mid 17th century Dutch portraits, from which I'll extrapolate if necessary, but if there are 16th century sources around then I'd obviously prefer that. (Yes, I have Le Pompe. No, I don't have Levey's "Lace: A History". Is it worth the ILL when it comes to tools and techniques, or is it mostly show-and-tell of different kinds of lace?) Yours, Kirrily _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 22:27:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9N2RhOL004919 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:27:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9N2Qn76003274 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:26:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9N2QlI5014485; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:26:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20201.mail.yahoo.com (web20201.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9N2QiI5014447 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:26:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031023022643.8711.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.179] by web20201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:26:43 EST Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:26:43 +1000 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: muffs To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200310221632.h9MGW67a010989@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:59:22 EDT > From: SNSpies@aol.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: muffs > http://www.csupomona.edu/~plin/women/womenart.html > > Boy, if there's a muff in that picture, it's sure hard to distinguish, Bella! > Love those dark Renaissance portraits! I thank you for this, however, and > have happily added it to the file. You're welcome. I've sorry you found it hard to see, but perhaps it will be easier to see if you up the contrast and/or brightness on your monitor? In any case, I have played around with that image, and upped the contrast and brightness on a copy, changed it to monochrome on another, and also cropped to a close-up on another. I've webbed them for your convenience at: This is a much smaller muff than seen in the Vecellio woodcuts. > Could you please give the full citation for the book of woodcuts? I'd like > to order the book. Sure, but I'd be happy to send you the relevant scans, if you prefer. It's "Vecellio's Renaissance Costume Book - All 500 Woodcut Illustralions from the Famous Compendium of World Costume" by Cesare Vecellio. Dover Publications, NY, 1977. ISBN: 0-486-23441-x Bella The Realm of Venus http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 23:18:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9N3IIOL005335 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:18:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9N3HQ76006209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:17:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9N3HMuE007310; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:17:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9N3HIuE007208 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:17:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.163.2751a6ad (4539) for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:17:10 -0400 (EDT) From: SNSpies@aol.com Message-ID: <163.2751a6ad.2cc8a236@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:17:10 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: muffs To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bella, you are a dear. Thank you for the picture manipulations and the Vecellio citation! Nancy *********************************************************** Nancy Spies Ingvild Josefsdatter, OL Arelate Studio Barony of Bright Hills, Atlantia http://www.weavershand.com/ArelateStudio.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 22 23:52:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9N3q3OL005508 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:52:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9N3oR76007843 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:50:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9N3oQuE021944; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:50:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9N3oNuE021922 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:50:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h9N3oNON025398 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:50:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.251] (tnt-1-315.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.251])h9N3oIh7025333 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:50:20 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20031022084720.00bae328@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20031022084720.00bae328@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 18:47:28 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] slovak sewing pattern translation Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 8:55 AM -0400 10/22/03, M Stewart wrote: >Hey there Cassandra... > >Well if you can read any of the letters at all, ie using the Latin >alphabet, you're looking at Polish or possibly Magyar, maybe a >remote Romanian (really doubt that). All the other Eastern European >languages use the Cyrillic Alphabet. >My bet would be Polish. Not quite true -- there are a lot of other Slavic languages out there (and without some continuous text, it can be hard to second-guess the identification, since the Slavic languages diverged at a relatively shallow time-depth). Off the top of my head, other Slavic languages than Polish that use the Latin alphabet include Czech, Slovak, and I believe all the various languages/dialects of the former Yugoslavia. If I'm remembering correctly, Bulgarian uses the Cyrillic alphabet. Romanian and Hungarian (Magyar) aren't Slavic and tend to be very different in look-and-feel from the Slavic family. (One of my favorite language games is to take a document with instructions or warnings in a dozen or more different languages and see how many I can identify without actually being able to understand a word.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 10:20:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9NEKBOL013075 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:20:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NEJH76025466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:19:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NEJ7u1019231; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:19:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NEInu1018868 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:18:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a222.in-tch.com [66.62.107.22]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9NCpX008392 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:51:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F97D44A.BBAFB78B@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:14:50 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Italian question References: <20030925194956.64394.qmail@web80512.mail.yahoo.com> <3F740346.8995.A002B80@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Going through my backed-up old emails.... If you don't mind a non-period cheat, you can thread a piece of strong fishing line through the narrow hem on your ruffle, to give it some stiffness. Or you could do what was done to the ruffle on the 1540's boy's shirt in the V&A--it had a tiny twisted, silk cord running just along the outermost edge of the ruffle, held in place with little buttonhole stitches. The cord and buttonhole stitches were the same color silk as the embroidery on the collar and cuffs.... (I've actually tried that, and it's pretty easy.) --sue kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > I had made the corset and had patterned the bodice already when I > > attempted to re-create the ruffled edge of the chemise that shows at > > the top of the collar. I just could NOT get it to work!! It is not a > > ruff (which I *do* know how to make). It is a ruffled edge of the > > chemise that stands up and out of the collar. > > It's probably made similar to the ruffs which within 20 years were > often made as separate accessories but seem to be part of the > shirt/chemise/half-shirt at this point. > > http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_ruffs.htm > > I've found that Laurellen's stacked pleat method usually turns out > the way that your picture shows. It doesn't look like that if you > cartridge pleat it as the pleats stand out differently so that you > get more of the Dutch ruff look than the Italian look you want. > > You'll want to make it smaller than what you would for the ruff she > shows, but it seems to work fairly well as long as you don't use a > fabric which is too thick. It needs to be slightly stiff but finely > woven in something lightweight. Handkerchief linen would work, but it > is about the outside limit of heaviness. A battiste might work if > your edge treatment gives it a little more stiffness (such as a metal > thread embroidery edge or a tightly rolled edge.) > > Kat > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 10:26:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9NEQVOL013100 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:26:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NEPJ76026050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:25:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NEOQu1024985; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:24:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NEMDu1022570 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:22:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.240]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:35:11 -0400 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 16th century bobbin lace tools and techniques Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:37:42 -0400 Message-ID: <000801c39962$74bb42e0$f06453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kirrily wrote: <<(Yes, I have Le Pompe. No, I don't have Levey's "Lace: A History". Is it worth the ILL when it comes to tools and techniques, or is it mostly show-and-tell of different kinds of lace?)>> Hi Kirrily! I only have a facsimile of Levey, but it really just discusses the history of bobbin lace, not the tools or techniques. If I'm wrong, please someone correct me because my facsimile may be missing pages. I am trying to do the same thing for 17th century lace as you are 16th century, and I am relying primarily on pictures of lacemakers. I don't know if there's a book out there that has done the research already. Most of the books I have called "A History of Lace" talk about its use, not its manufacture, or they concentrate on the 19th century. The best historical information I have on the history of lacemaking is from Pat Earnshaw's "Needlelace". I know it's not about bobbin lace, but it touches on the subject a lot in the early pages of the book and it draws valuable comparisons between cutwork and needlelace and the bobbin lace that came to replace it. I don't have any of Earnshaw's books on bobbin lace, but I think they would definitely be worth a look. Best of luck in your search. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 11:10:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9NFAvOL013675 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:10:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NFA676000863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:10:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NFA1OA012254; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fallback-mx4.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@fallback-mx4.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NF9tOB012113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:09:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail5.atl.registeredsite.com (mail5.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.79])h9NCNlQR024563 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:23:47 -0400 Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) h9NCNgsL028419 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:23:42 -0400 Received: from mail.systemsfirm.com ([69.140.57.41]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:23:40 -0500 X-Mailer: Ultrafunk Popcorn release 1.40 (20-May-2003) X-URL: http://www.ultrafunk.com/products/popcorn/ X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:23:33 -0500 From: "A. Thurman" To: h-costume@indra.com Organization: Systemsfirm X-Rcpt-To: Message-ID: <106691182101@libra.hosting4u.net> Subject: [h-cost] re: Muffs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I missed the original discussion, but I'd love to know if 16th century peasants used muffs to keep their hands warm. If not, what did they use? I ask based on a rather chilly Renaissance festival last weekend ;) Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 11:57:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9NFvhOL013752 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:57:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NFt18W005608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:56:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NFlGOA020047; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:47:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NFlCOA019901 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:47:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a222.in-tch.com [66.62.107.22]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9NDBu017143 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:11:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F97D910.C434B23D@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:35:12 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings References: <20031022163143.83341.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nice selection of stuff with that sutler, but not a lot of info on individual items (no pictures of the goods, or pattern covers, etc.). Thanks for the link, sue Mara Riley wrote: > > Godwin sells hand-knit stockings: > http://www.gggodwin.com/stockings.htm > > The stitch gauge is a bit large for the period, however. > > Cheers, > Mara > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 11:57:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9NFvlOL013755 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:57:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NFt18Y005608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:56:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NFlqOA020642; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:47:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NFlCOC019901 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:47:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a222.in-tch.com [66.62.107.22]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9NCQJ028179 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:26:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F97CE5F.8844C543@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:49:35 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help identifying picture - peasant dance/wedding References: <20031022203504.71584.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My first thought was Breughel (because of the association with peasants and dancing), but it doesn't strike me as done in his style.... Interesting pic., by the way! --sue Mara Riley wrote: > > I need some help, folks -- I found the following pic on my computer, > but can't remember who the artist is: > > http://www.marariley.net/Temp/peasants.jpg > > Anyone know? > > Thanks, > Mara > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 14:42:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9NIgBOL018332 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:42:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NIf376023866 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:41:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NIf0Tk014029; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NIevTk013963 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:40:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be17.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.23]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 685AD480045 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:40:55 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000f01c39995$beb5d3f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century bobbin lace tools and techniques Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:44:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Kirrily, I must say, that i praktically dont know anything about this, although i have made bobbin lace for many years. But i would guess, that it would have looked similar to the 17th century bobbin pillows you see on the paintings, and the thread bobbins would probably be the same. Also the round rolls you have seen, someone sits with it in the lap must be very old. Rolls were made for endless lace, made by yarding. I have heard something about the origin of the word bone lace refers to the bobbins was made of fishbones, but i would say, it could just as well have ben bobbins made of bones. I cant imagine a fishbone winded with thread, but who knows? The pillows were stuffed with chopped hay, this is the same case today. The pricking cards were made of pig blatters. At least back in 18th century Denmark, so i think it must have ben the same thing in 16th century, but i am not sure. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirrily Robert" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 3:32 AM Subject: [h-cost] 16th century bobbin lace tools and techniques > I seem to recall there are some bobbin lace afficionadoes on this list, > so I hope you won't mind the slightly off topic post. > > Can anyone tell me where I might find information on the tools used by > 16th century bobbin lace makers? What kind of bobbins, what kind of > pillows, what were the pillows stuffed with, what did they use to make > their prickings, and so on. > > The best I have currently found are a few mid 17th century Dutch > portraits, from which I'll extrapolate if necessary, but if there are > 16th century sources around then I'd obviously prefer that. > > (Yes, I have Le Pompe. No, I don't have Levey's "Lace: A History". Is > it worth the ILL when it comes to tools and techniques, or is it mostly > show-and-tell of different kinds of lace?) > > Yours, > > Kirrily > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 15:15:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9NJFEOL018545 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:15:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NJEL76027243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:14:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NJEHLQ015043; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:14:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21409.mail.yahoo.com (web21409.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.79]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9NJEELQ014994 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:14:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031023191414.70480.qmail@web21409.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.14.128] by web21409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:14:14 PDT Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:14:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] bobbin lace To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F97CE5F.8844C543@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, in regards to the bobbins possibly having been made from fish bone. I know that the vertebrae are often made into beads of a somewhat tubular shape, so perhaps they were using those? Angharad __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 17:01:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9NL1oOL018803 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:01:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NL0u76008213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:00:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NL0l9X029519; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:00:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9NL0h9X029389 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:00:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OpUCpzcCtq7MkoTQF38qzvM=">; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:00:18 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JC72Z68G; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:00:18 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:18:07 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century bobbin lace tools and techniques Message-ID: <20031023.135941.1780.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,8-10 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne writes: > The pillows were stuffed with chopped hay, this is the same case > today. I'd never heard of that! The lacemakers in my neck of the woods stuff their lace pillows with wool wadding. Seems the lanolin keeps the pins from rusting. Interesting! :-) Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 17:33:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9NLXgOL018891 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:33:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NLX076011335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NLWx9X002583; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:32:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NLTn9X029576 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:29:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-125-79.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.125.79]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9NLTI9o001681 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:29:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031023142506.05711a40@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:26:39 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help identifying picture - peasant dance/wedding In-Reply-To: <3F97CE5F.8844C543@in-tch.com> References: <20031022203504.71584.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >My first thought was Breughel (because of the association with peasants >and dancing), but it doesn't strike me as done in his style.... >Interesting pic., by the way! > > I need some help, folks -- I found the following pic on my computer, > > but can't remember who the artist is: > > > > http://www.marariley.net/Temp/peasants.jpg I'd say it was 100 years after Brueghel, except that there are no ruffs or similar collars. The womens' caps look early 17thC Dutch to me, as does the style of the painting. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 17:35:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9NLZfOL018899 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:35:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NLYg76011526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:34:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NLYf9X004271; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:34:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NLTo9X029586 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:29:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-125-79.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.125.79]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9NLTI9q001681 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:29:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031023142759.05708800@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:29:13 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] bobbin lace In-Reply-To: <20031023191414.70480.qmail@web21409.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3F97CE5F.8844C543@in-tch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Bjarne, > >in regards to the bobbins possibly having been made >from fish bone. > >I know that the vertebrae are often made into beads of >a somewhat tubular shape, so perhaps they were using >those? Chicken thigh bones would hold more thread and still be the right shape to use, so why use tiny fish bones? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 17:45:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9NLjxOL018917 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:45:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NLj076012387 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NLiw9X013344; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:44:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NLis9Y013304 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:44:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (acty3070.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.248.70]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9NLiqif022045 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:44:53 -0400 Message-ID: <3F984BD1.5000006@dandy.net> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:44:49 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century bobbin lace tools and techniques References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. Kirrily. There are two illos that I currently know of showing bobbin lace being made prior to the 17th cent. One is from the Nuw Modelbuch of 1561, which has been reprinted and is available through (at least) Unicorn Books. The title page shows a pillow (square or rectangular), bobbins, pins and the pattern laid on the pillow. The second is (I think) 16th Cent. , and is on pg. 90 of Anne Catherine Buddes Monsterbog. The title of the illo reads "Figur 42: Udsnit af kobberstik af Theodor Galle (1571-1633) efter maleri fra o. 1560 af Johannes Stradanus (1523?-1605), visende kvinder beskaeftiget med tekstile arbejder. Det ses tydeligt, at defilerede net er udspaendt ved hjaelp af en trad, fort afvekslende ned i netmaske og op rundt om et af sommene langs rammens sider." I gather this means that the engraving (kobberstik or copperplate?) seen in the book is copied by Theodor Galle from a painting (maleri?) by Johannus Stradanus of textile workers (tekstile arbejder). How'd I do, Bjarne? ;) I muddle through German, so I could gather that much, I think, but the rest is better left to those skilled in their native language. Hope my attempt at translation hasn't offended the sensibilities of any folks out there, I know how some folks get touchy about Americans. If there is a painting by Johannes Stradanus, and it is before 1605, that might help. The pillow shown is inverted bowl shaped (half a sphere), and the bobbins are well shown. They look like modern Belgian bobbins (big globose bottoms, no spangles). My scanner is down, or I'd send them to you. Cheers, Mike T. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 17:55:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9NLtlOL018975 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:55:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NLt876013279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:55:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NLt7AK022341; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:55:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NLsx9X022224 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:55:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip42.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.42]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 249696FBD2 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:54:57 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:54:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [h-cost] 16th century bobbin lace tools and techniques Message-ID: <3F97EBA2.13316.B4B6FB3@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000801c39962$74bb42e0$f06453d8@Kass> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Kirrily wrote: > <<(Yes, I have Le Pompe. No, I don't have Levey's "Lace: A History". > Is it worth the ILL when it comes to tools and techniques, or is it > mostly show-and-tell of different kinds of lace?)>> > > Hi Kirrily! I only have a facsimile of Levey, but it really just > discusses the history of bobbin lace, not the tools or techniques. If > I'm wrong, please someone correct me because my facsimile may be > missing pages. > > I am trying to do the same thing for 17th century lace as you are 16th > century, and I am relying primarily on pictures of lacemakers. I > don't know if there's a book out there that has done the research > already. Most of the books I have called "A History of Lace" talk > about its use, not its manufacture, or they concentrate on the 19th > century. You might also find Margaret Abegg's _Apropos Fabrics_. It covers 16- 18th C and has pics of people doing the lace making, embroidering, etc. Most of the techniques books don't have much history and vice versa. Encyclopedia style books may have a little more balance but tend to be less easy to follow. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 18:09:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9NM9DOL019044 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:09:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NM8S76014637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:08:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NM8QAK013162; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:08:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NM8NAK013094 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:08:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.167.47] (helo=wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ACnd1-0006LV-00; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:08:23 -0400 Message-ID: <17505499.1066946903272.JavaMail.root@wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:08:23 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Subject: [h-cost] Weekend & linguistics X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Feel like getting together this weekend? If so, name a day and I'll be happy to come down. (And will try again to find all the banner stuff :) Clearly, it is my duty as your apprentice to keep you from becoming completely cross-eyed from working on the name book...? Linguistic oddities of the week: (1) Billboard with abstract pictures of T-shirts in bright colors. Complete text reads "More Bling-Bling for less Ka-Ching -- [name of store]" I hate to think of some poor non-native English speaker struggling with that one! (2) Sign on front of Staples store: "Over 6,000 Office Supplies." So . . . one of those 6,000 is "an office supply"? Collective noun -> simple plural? And so the language continues to evolve..... (and no, I already know the story about "peas"... :) ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 18:14:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9NMESOL019099 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:14:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NMDm76015093 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:13:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NMDkAK017703; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:13:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NMDgAK017591 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:13:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.a3.4adb162b (3980) for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:13:16 -0400 (EDT) From: SNSpies@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:13:15 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Muffs To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No original discussion, so you didn't miss anyting! Apparently, muffs were a high fashion statement; we can only document them to the upper class so far. Nancy I missed the original discussion, but I'd love to know if 16th century peasants used muffs to keep their hands warm. If not, what did they use? I ask based on a rather chilly Renaissance festival last weekend ;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 18:14:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9NMEiOL019108 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:14:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NME376015121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:14:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NME0AK018026; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NMDlAK017730 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:13:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.167.47] (helo=wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ACniF-0003PE-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:13:47 -0400 Message-ID: <6502020.1066947227225.JavaMail.root@wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:13:47 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Oops (Re: [h-cost] Weekend & linguistics) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry, that was supposed to be private. ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 18:18:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9NMHxOL019125 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:18:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NMHB76015425 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:17:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NMH0AK021671; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NMGnAK021435 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:16:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_dev1.2.) id f.11.1af7d5cd (3980); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:16:34 -0400 (EDT) From: SNSpies@aol.com Message-ID: <11.1af7d5cd.2cc9ad40@aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:16:32 EDT To: sca-laurels@ansteorra.org, SCAWeaving@yahoogroups.com, h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_11.1af7d5cd.2cc9ad40_boundary" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 920 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 cc: blackmug@midusa.net Subject: [h-cost] "burnel" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --part1_11.1af7d5cd.2cc9ad40_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A colleague has asked this question of me which I am unable to answer. Could someone help us out here, please? Many thanks. Nancy It occurred to me the other day that you might be able to shed some light on a puzzle I've encountered while working on nuns' clothing. It's about the cloth called "burnet." The only definition I've found for this is, basically, "brown cloth." (Oh, and I've found a connection between it and a particular English town---might've been Beverly; I'll have to check my notes.) My problem is that I've found a number of references to burnet in connection with nuns, as a fabric they're forbidden to wear. The implication (it seems to me) is that it's luxurious in some way. Now, bishops could be very strict in what they considered luxurious and forbidden. They won't allow the nuns to wear any color, so I guess it's possible that brown is forbidden altogether, because it's not black, white, or grey. My impression from the records is that the nun's habit was not set in stone, as it would be (for each order) in modern times. (I've ordered that book you told me about---thanks again for that!---but it's not out yet.) So my question for you is whether burnet is just plain old brown cloth, any brown cloth, or whether it might be a particularly fine or bright brown cloth. Maybe I'm just biased here by a modern notion of brown as a plain color? --part1_11.1af7d5cd.2cc9ad40_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --part1_11.1af7d5cd.2cc9ad40_boundary-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 19:16:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9NNG0OL019361 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:16:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NNFN76021338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:15:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NNFH2h000846; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:15:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NNFB2h000741 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:15:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p537-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.194.29] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ACofa-0005dD-00; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:15:06 +1300 Message-ID: <004d01c399bb$7cd69e80$1dc2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Muffs Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:15:01 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > No original discussion, so you didn't miss anyting! > Apparently, muffs were a high fashion statement; we can only document them to > the upper class so far. I thought I just saw one in the German wall painting in Augsburg.. I'm just checking... yes. She's wearing rather a large one actually.: http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/nov.htm#schlitten She is in a yellow over robe with a dark muff. There are a few ladies with very large sleeves that appear to be lined in fur but I'm not talking about them. Even though they might be mistaken for holding muffs in the wider views. http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/nov5.htm They are probably not wealthy women, probably of the middle classes (middle including Mayors apparently.) The figure in green may be carrying a bag, but I don't know... OK it is a basket type thing: http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/dez2.htm michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 19:50:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9NNoWOL019462 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:50:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NNnI76024082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:49:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NNnG2h024251; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:49:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NNn92h024157 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:49:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp65.pop1.net [209.102.125.115]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA04526 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:49:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp65.pop1.net [209.102.125.115] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <3F9868CE.1020009@pcez.com> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:48:30 -0700 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings everyone, I'm on another hunt. A few years ago, I started and did a research paper on period pomanders. I even created the pomander resin balls by using a period recipe, although I did have to omit one or two ingredients because I could not locate the items or they were cost prohibitive. The items I had to omit, I tried to find a suggested substitute. Now I have the chance to create the "cage" for the pomander, but I would like to see/find picture sources of pre-17th century pomanders. I've gone through my books and the web, now I'm hoping someone out there can find me a good picture of one. Can anyone help me? Plus, I plan on creating a webpage diary on my pomander resin balls and the "cage" for them. While I am add it, I will be adding my research paper on ailettes. Thanks ahead of time for any help. Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 19:52:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9NNqXOL019468 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:52:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NNps76024331 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:51:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9NNpr2h025919; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:51:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20209.mail.yahoo.com (web20209.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9NNpp2h025901 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:51:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031023235151.17221.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.179] by web20209.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:51:51 EST Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:51:51 +1000 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: muffs To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200310231802.h9NI1tTn007498@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You're welcome. :) Bella > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:17:10 EDT > From: SNSpies@aol.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: muffs > Bella, you are a dear. Thank you for the picture manipulations and the > Vecellio citation! > > Nancy http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 22:07:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9O27YOL020204 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:07:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O26h76003420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:06:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O26eav013894; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:06:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O26bav013859 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:06:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HN800CJTOIZOY@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:06:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:05:14 -0700 From: Kimiko Small In-reply-to: <3F93E650.90116BC3@in-tch.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031023141128.00b09d60@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <3F9006C5.8030302@uvm.edu> <00ae01c391a2$45dbd470$75f5da0c@DT2JBTC21> <00f001c39291$3e4f3f40$0200a8c0@comcast.net> <3F8D4511.7060304@uvm.edu> <3F9006C5.8030302@uvm.edu> <5.2.1.1.0.20031019231000.02f75a08@64.87.54.245> Subject: [h-cost] John Marshall's Japanese clothing class X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:42 AM 10/20/2003 -0600, you wrote: >Ooooh, that sounds wonderful! (I've got his book ;o) >--sue, hoping you'll tell us more details after the class is over.... > >Kimiko Small wrote: > > > > It just will be a bit, after the gloves class is done, and definitely after > > this weekend's class in Japanese clothing. Boy has that one been an eye > > opener in many things, from clothing construction to natural dyeing > > techniques of the Japanese. It's with John Marshall, and I am just in > heaven. Hi Sue and all, I am behind on emails, as I got sick after the end of the classes. Joy. Anyway, I wanted to share a bit of John Marshall's class on Japanese/Oriental clothing construction that I just had. It is costume related, although not as much on historical costuming. The class was with my local fiber arts guild. We had three days spent going over Japanese clothing styles and some construction techniques. Much of it is from his book, _Make Your Own Japanese Clothes_, that he wrote at the request of Japanese businessmen. He explained some of the non-traditional aspects for modern clothing designs that are shown in some detail in the book, but may be confusing on its own. He also showed us some of his collection of oriental clothing, from children's kimonos to Shinto and Buddhist priestly robes, to a few Chinese and African items. Some had some incredible embroidery and dyed patterns that were just awesome. I took over three rolls of film just on his collection, including some of his own garments, which are much better in person than in photos that some of you may have seen. He isn't a tailor specifically, he is a dyer and a doll maker. He learned his dyeing art at the hands of a Japanese master who was dying of breast cancer, and she wanted her art to be shared with the west. He was her last student, and he inherited all her tools, materials, books and stuff. Because of her gift to teach him her skills, he believes in giving his gift to others, so he isn't secretive about what he knows. This is unusual amongst the Japanese dyers, who traditionally believe in the art remaining a trade secret. He also shared info on various natural dyeing techniques, from gladiolas, to cocheniel making a black dye, to indigo to soy milk, which he uses to fix his dyes in the Japanese tradition. Soy milk is quite the interesting little bit of plant. Once soy milk is applied, allowed to dry, pressed or stretched, and allowed to cure for three weeks or more, fabrics with soy milk resists wrinkles and improves the dye, even to preventing the dye from crocking from fabrics. He has a booklet on the whole thing. Here is specific info on soy milk: http://www.johnmarshall.to/5-EDx-SoyMilk.html and http://www.johnmarshall.to/5-EDx-Sizing.html He also talks a lot on how to deal with the business end of being a textile artist. Very informative and eye opening, even for a person like me who used to work in the business world. He is very open to sharing everything he knows about whatever he knows. And he is very straightforward about it all, good, bad, and ugly. He even went beyond the fabrics and dyes. He taught us how to create garments from simple paper dolls, using graph paper, my basic body measurements, a pen, and scissors. Just those simple tools used in a creative way opened up new ideas of garment designs that can almost instantly be translated into actual patterns that will work! And he taught us about how the traditional garments of Japan uses fabric wisely and really well. In fact, it made me rethink some ideas I had about Irish leines, which has a basic shape to a Japanese kimono, especially in the sleeves. For example, the Japanese don't cut curves into their kimono sleeves, they sew them into a curve, hiding the extra material into the sleeve itself. He also taught me some aspects of my own Japanese heritage that I just didn't know about before. My mom is Japanese, but some of the things I did as a child, or items she has in her collection, I just didn't know what it meant and because of him I now do. He opened an appreciation of where I come from that I never had before, and that made his class even more special. For more info on him and his works, visit his web site at http://www.johnmarshall.to/ . Oh, one more thing. He explained that the kimono market in Japan has bottomed out, not will soon be dying if something doesn't change, but has died because of many things, including the death of some masters of parts of the process. It means that kimonos will soon become rare, and hence much more expensive. So if you are thinking of buying kimonos for your collection, buy them within the next decade or so. Thankfully, I have my mom's collection already. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 22:41:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9O2f9OL020742 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:41:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O2eC76004494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:40:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O2eAav001773; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:40:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O2e8av001747 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:40:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oldwaylane.net (dialup-67.72.166.44.Dial1.Washington1.Level3.net [67.72.166.44]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA18668 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:22:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3F988D56.7050601@oldwaylane.net> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:24:22 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] paper-tape double help! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I know it's making paper-tape doubles has been discussed before, so I know some of you have made them. I'm hoping to make one this weekend, but..... Most instructions I've seen call for the old style brown paper-tape that you have to get wet to make sticky. I can't find this tape anymore, will the regular sticky reinforced paper package tape work just as well? I'd rather make a hard shell than a duct tape for this, and I'mjust not sure of the materials. Thanks, -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 23:04:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9O34eOL021202 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:04:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O34276005990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:04:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O341Zw015084; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O33xZw015040 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:03:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alfalfapress.com (12-241-217-228.client.attbi.com [12.241.217.228]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9O33rt25639 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:03:54 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:09:44 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Althea Turner To: h-costume@net.indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <84445D22-05CF-11D8-A701-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [h-cost] Piazza Pitti X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO hello, Does anyone have contact information for the costume curators at the Piazza Pitti in Florence? I am looking for internships this next summer. Any other museums in Italy (Venice, Florence, Rome) with costume collections from the renaissance? Many thanks! Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 23:22:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9O3MWOL021345 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:22:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O3Ka76006959 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:20:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O3KVZw023249; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:20:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O3KTZw023228 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:20:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.162.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.162] helo=4gxif) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ACsV2-0004AS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:20:29 -0400 Message-ID: <01bb01c399dd$c66d9b80$a2f74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031022203504.71584.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20031023142506.05711a40@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help identifying picture - peasant dance/wedding Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:20:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn is looking for the name of: > > > http://www.marariley.net/Temp/peasants.jpg > Found it- the painting is called "The Village Wedding" and the painter is Peter Paul Rubens (ca. 1640). If you don't already know about these two web sites, you should. Artcyclopedia- http://www.artcyclopedia.com/ Web Gallery of Art- http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/welcome.html You can search by artist, title, genre, period, keywords, nationality (not all options on each site). -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 23:49:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9O3nEOL021533 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:49:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O3mK76008340 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:48:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O3mIZw007029; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:48:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O3mGZw007013 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:48:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-52-149.jps.net ([209.165.52.149] helo=[209.165.34.195]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ACsvu-0004by-00; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:48:15 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <11.1af7d5cd.2cc9ad40@aol.com> References: <11.1af7d5cd.2cc9ad40@aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:27:43 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] "burnel" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: blackmug@midusa.net X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 6:16 PM -0400 10/23/03, SNSpies@aol.com wrote: >...My problem is that I've found a number of references to burnet in >connection with nuns, as a fabric they're forbidden to wear. The >implication (it seems to me) is that it's luxurious in some way. Now, >bishops could be very strict in what they considered luxurious and >forbidden. They won't allow the nuns to wear any color, so I guess it's >possible that brown is forbidden altogether, because it's not black, white, >or grey. ...[snip]... So my question for you is whether burnet is >just plain old brown >cloth, any brown cloth, or whether it might be a particularly fine or >bright brown cloth. Maybe I'm just biased here by a modern notion of brown >as a plain color? I don't think that color is likely to be the issue -- my old copy of Fairchild's Dictionary of Textiles (1979) says that Burnet or Burnette is "a fine, brown or black woolen fabric made in 13th-century England." There was also a discussion not too long ago on a medieval-religion list I subscribe to on the history of habit colors, and one correspondent wrote: >I am working on regulation of clerical dress just now, & 13th century >synodal decrees on the habits of religious refer to black or brown, >sometimes "nigra bruna" together. Nothing specifies gray, but the friars >are not as often mentioned as are monks & canons. That lists's collective "guess" was that the intention was to use the undyed wool of "black" sheep -- so the difference between a "true" black and some shades of brown would be accidental and not of great concern. I don't know how far one can generalize from this, but it makes it seem unlikely that something brown would have been frowned on for reasons of color. I'd think that a more likely problem with "burnet" would be its fineness and expense. For an analagous example, St. Francis of Assisi's (and his friend St. Clare's) surviving habits are greyish-brown, made from a blend of wool from white and "black" sheep (which can range anywhere from black to gray to brown to rust color, depending on the sheep and the weather). Small changes in the percentages of "black" vs. white wool can make this sort of fabric look significantly more brownish or grayish, and apparently Francis was not too picky about exactly what it looked like, since he merely said that the cloth should be "ash colored." This reference is actually specifically about nuns: >On this topic one may take a look at an article (in German) of >Gerard Pieter Freeman, professor of Franciscan Studies at Utrecht, >'Franziskanische Frauentrachten': >http://www0.ktu.nl/fsc/artikel/frfr2.htm >Freeman states that the Constitutions of Narbonne (1260) say that the colour >of the habit should be "neither all white nor all black". There was no >uniform colour, but only the natural range of colours of undyed wool. >...[snip]... In his article he also refers to Eduard d'Alençon, Il colore >dell'abito dei Frati Minori, in: Miscellanea Francescana 25 (1925) 3-12 -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 23:52:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9O3q3OL021569 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:52:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O3pR76008485 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:51:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O3pRZw008579; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:51:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav17.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O3pOZw008518 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:51:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:51:19 -0700 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav17.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 03:51:19 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F9868CE.1020009@pcez.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:52:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Oct 2003 03:51:19.0564 (UTC) FILETIME=[154EA4C0:01C399E2] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Plus, I > plan on creating a webpage diary on my pomander resin balls and the > "cage" for them. I'll read that with great interest when it's ready. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 23 23:58:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9O3wFOL021613 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:58:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O3vf76008879 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:57:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O3vA1v011465; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:57:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O3v61v011383 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:57:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.12a.338e302f (657) for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:56:58 -0400 (EDT) From: SNSpies@aol.com Message-ID: <12a.338e302f.2cc9fd0a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:56:58 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Muffs To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 920 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I may have missed it, but the site doesn't seem to give date/painter info for this painting. Any clue? Nancy I thought I just saw one in the German wall painting in Augsburg.. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 00:27:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9O4RZOL021974 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:27:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O4Qw76010746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O4Qu1v028973; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:26:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O4Qh1v028866 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:26:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9195836AA6 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:26:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1ACtX8-0006bn-00 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:26:42 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] "burnel" In-Reply-To: References: <11.1af7d5cd.2cc9ad40@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:26:42 -0400 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chris wrote: > There was also a discussion not too long ago on a medieval-religion > list I subscribe to on the history of habit colors What list is that, just out of interest? K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 00:33:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9O4XJOL022020 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:33:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O4We76010960 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:32:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O4WY1v001804; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:32:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O4WP1v001628 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:32:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m34.in-tch.com [216.166.191.34]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9O4BVk02864 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:11:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F98ABE8.8E8C3CF1@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:34:48 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] bobbin lace References: <3F97CE5F.8844C543@in-tch.com> <4.3.1.2.20031023142759.05708800@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO IIRC, I remember discussions on Lace list that mentioned the possibility of our predecessors using fish bones for the *pins*, and not for the bobbins. I don't remember anyone having any definitive proof one way or t'other, just lots of speculation. My guess is, that's what Bjarne was actually referring to (he's on that list, too.). --sue, who uses anachronistic Midlands bobbins, because she gets to *bead* them! wahoo! ;o) Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > >Bjarne, > > > >in regards to the bobbins possibly having been made > >from fish bone. > > > >I know that the vertebrae are often made into beads of > >a somewhat tubular shape, so perhaps they were using > >those? > > Chicken thigh bones would hold more thread and still be the right shape to > use, so why use tiny fish bones? > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 01:01:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9O51jOL022280 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:01:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O51376012358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:01:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O511AQ015505; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O50xAQ015479 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:00:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-12hc6te.cable.mindspring.com ([69.22.27.174] helo=earthlink.net) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ACu4J-0004vp-00; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:00:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3F98B207.7000901@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:00:55 -0500 From: Charlene Charette User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] "burnel" References: <11.1af7d5cd.2cc9ad40@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <11.1af7d5cd.2cc9ad40@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: blackmug@midusa.net cc: h-costume@net.indra.com cc: SCAWeaving@yahoogroups.com cc: sca-laurels@ansteorra.org X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's what the OED has to say about "burnet": A. adj. a. Of a dark brown colour. c1200 Trin. Coll. Hom. 163 Hire mentel grene oer burnet. c1440 Promp. Parv. 56 Burnet colowre, burnetum. a1500 Voc. in Wr.-Wülcker 569 Burnetus, burnet, color quidam est. 1513 DOUGLAS Æneis XII. Prol. 106 Sa mony diuers hew, Sum pers, sum paill, sum burnet, and sum blew. b. absol. a1450 Syr Peny v. in Rel. Ant. II. 108 He may gar them trayle syde In burnet and in grene. 1605 CAMDEN Rem. (1637) 194 The roabes..of Greene or Burnet. B. n. A wool-dyed cloth of superior quality, orig. of dark brown colour. 1284 in Rogers Agric. & Prices. II. 536/3. c1325 Love song in Rel. Ant. II. 19 Of a blak bornet al wos hir wede. c1400 Rom. Rose 4759 As well be amourettes In mourning blak, as bright burnettes. 1753 CHAMBERS Cycl. Supp., Burnet, in middle age writers, denotes brown cloth made of dyed wool. attrib. c1400 Rom. Rose 226 A burnet cote henge therwithalle. ¶See quot. 1616 BULLOKAR, Burnet, a hood, or attire for the head. 1623 in COCKERAM. 1678 in PHILLIPS. --Charlene -- THE COW The cow is of the bovine ilk; One end is moo, the other, milk. --Ogden Nash, Free Wheeling, 1931 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 02:20:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9O6K8OL029932 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 02:20:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O6JT76016387 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:19:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O6JPg9025812; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:19:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O6JMg9025790 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:19:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.162.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.162] helo=4gxif) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ACvI9-0006Aa-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 02:19:21 -0400 Message-ID: <03fb01c399f6$cc886040$a2f74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F9868CE.1020009@pcez.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 02:19:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try these: Portrait of Queen Mary Tudor of England by Anthonis Mor Van Dashorst (1554) Portrait of Eleanor of Toledo with her son by Agnolo Bronzino (1544) Portrait of Jane Fitzalan by Steven van der Muelen (1563) Portrait of Lady Jane Grey (painter and date unknown) (full-length portrait in a gold and red gown) A silver pomander belonging to Mary Stuart in the collection at Holyrood (very cool- it splits apart like into wedges like one of those chocolate oranges) -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 02:42:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9O6gSOL004515 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 02:42:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O6fp76017415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:41:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O6fng9006826; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:41:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O6fig9006793 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:41:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232])h9O511d25564 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:01:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from user-12hc6te.cable.mindspring.com ([69.22.27.174] helo=earthlink.net) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ACu4J-0004vp-00; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:00:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3F98B207.7000901@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:00:55 -0500 From: Charlene Charette User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] "burnel" References: <11.1af7d5cd.2cc9ad40@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <11.1af7d5cd.2cc9ad40@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: blackmug@midusa.net cc: h-costume@net.indra.com cc: SCAWeaving@yahoogroups.com cc: sca-laurels@ansteorra.org X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's what the OED has to say about "burnet": A. adj. a. Of a dark brown colour. c1200 Trin. Coll. Hom. 163 Hire mentel grene oer burnet. c1440 Promp. Parv. 56 Burnet colowre, burnetum. a1500 Voc. in Wr.-Wülcker 569 Burnetus, burnet, color quidam est. 1513 DOUGLAS Æneis XII. Prol. 106 Sa mony diuers hew, Sum pers, sum paill, sum burnet, and sum blew. b. absol. a1450 Syr Peny v. in Rel. Ant. II. 108 He may gar them trayle syde In burnet and in grene. 1605 CAMDEN Rem. (1637) 194 The roabes..of Greene or Burnet. B. n. A wool-dyed cloth of superior quality, orig. of dark brown colour. 1284 in Rogers Agric. & Prices. II. 536/3. c1325 Love song in Rel. Ant. II. 19 Of a blak bornet al wos hir wede. c1400 Rom. Rose 4759 As well be amourettes In mourning blak, as bright burnettes. 1753 CHAMBERS Cycl. Supp., Burnet, in middle age writers, denotes brown cloth made of dyed wool. attrib. c1400 Rom. Rose 226 A burnet cote henge therwithalle. ¶See quot. 1616 BULLOKAR, Burnet, a hood, or attire for the head. 1623 in COCKERAM. 1678 in PHILLIPS. --Charlene -- THE COW The cow is of the bovine ilk; One end is moo, the other, milk. --Ogden Nash, Free Wheeling, 1931 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 03:55:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9O7tsOL030438 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 03:55:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O7tK76019909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:55:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O7tH7Z005821; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:55:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O7tF7Z005792 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:55:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h9O7uNA06316.; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:56:23 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:55:11 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:55:05 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Testing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have had a virus warning mentioning some h-cost addresses Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 07:51:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OBp8OL031994 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:51:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OBo376028976 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 05:50:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OBnxRD004426; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 05:49:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt7.ihug.co.nz (grunt7.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OBnuRD004405 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 05:49:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p699-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.194.191] by grunt7.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AD0S1-0004hA-00; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 00:49:54 +1300 Message-ID: <002a01c39a24$ee95f110$bfc2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <12a.338e302f.2cc9fd0a@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Muffs Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 00:49:49 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I may have missed it, but the site doesn't seem to give date/painter info for > this painting. Any clue? > > Nancy > > I thought I just saw one in the German wall painting in Augsburg.. The site is in german which certainly isn't my best language... but it is a series of murals... Clicking around brings up some info (züruck) is back so if you click that a few times you come to the index. Umm.. I couldn't find any info on the painter, but then babelfish only translates a set amount of text. a.. Monthly picture cycle b.. After Joerg Breu D A. (around 1480-1537) c.. Augsburg, 16. Jh. d.. Oil/canvas Interesting... the site says they are oil on canvas.. or at least the translation does... Leinwand OK so babelfish and google say this is canvas. I've seen it referred to as a mural a few times though.. ah well. Search for "Augsburger Monatsbilder" and you'll be sure to find more info. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 08:24:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OCO8OL032289 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:24:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OCNV76000840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:23:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OCNUTc019294; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:23:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OCNRTc019277 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:23:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-002scfairp0434.dialsprint.net ([63.184.201.180] helo=faucet.net) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AD0yV-0004fh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 05:23:27 -0700 Message-ID: <3F9927AF.8060507@faucet.net> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:22:55 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders References: <3F9868CE.1020009@pcez.com> <03fb01c399f6$cc886040$a2f74a43@4gxif> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Helen Pinto wrote: > A silver pomander belonging to Mary Stuart in the > collection at Holyrood (very cool- it splits apart like > into wedges like one of those chocolate oranges) I believe there's one of these at Agecroft Hall in Virginia. You can find contact info on their website at http://www.agecrofthall.com Cheers, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume http://www.coastal.edu/theater _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 09:47:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ODllOL001210 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:47:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ODjp76005467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:45:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ODjom6000846; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:45:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13409.mail.yahoo.com (web13409.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9ODjmm6000831 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:45:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031024134548.73161.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.170] by web13409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:45:48 PDT Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:45:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help identifying picture - peasant dance/wedding To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031023142506.05711a40@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > http://www.marariley.net/Temp/peasants.jpg > > I'd say it was 100 years after Brueghel, except that there are no > ruffs or > similar collars. The womens' caps look early 17thC Dutch to me, as > does > the style of the painting. Yes, that's why I'm so interested... I _thought_ it was Rembrandt or Rubens, but I can't find this in any online searches of their work! :P -- Mara __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 09:55:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ODt2OL001229 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:55:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ODsM76005951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:54:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ODsLm6005706; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:54:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13404.mail.yahoo.com (web13404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9ODsKm6005683 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:54:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031024135419.51996.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.170] by web13404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:54:19 PDT Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:54:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] paper-tape double help! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3F988D56.7050601@oldwaylane.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Judy, I found some at Staples (in Waldorf, MD) this past week. Cheers, Mara --- Judy Mitchell wrote: > Hi, > I know it's making paper-tape doubles has been discussed > before, so I know some of you have made them. I'm hoping to > make one this weekend, but..... > Most instructions I've seen call for the old style > brown paper-tape that you have to get wet to make sticky. I > can't find this tape anymore, will the regular sticky > reinforced paper package tape work just as well? > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 09:59:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ODxrOL001248 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:59:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ODxC76006294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:59:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ODxC5l008558; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:59:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13404.mail.yahoo.com (web13404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9ODx85l008519 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:59:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031024135906.52969.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.170] by web13404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:59:06 PDT Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:59:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help identifying picture - peasant dance/wedding To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <01bb01c399dd$c66d9b80$a2f74a43@4gxif> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Helen Pinto wrote: > Found it- the painting is called "The Village Wedding" and the > painter is > Peter Paul Rubens (ca. 1640). Woo hoo, thanks! > If you don't already know about these two web sites, you should. > > Artcyclopedia- http://www.artcyclopedia.com/ > > Web Gallery of Art- > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/welcome.html > > You can search by artist, title, genre, period, keywords, > nationality (not > all options on each site). > > -Helen/Aidan The first site has it, the second doesn't, and of course, the second site is the one I'd already searched. Go figure... Thanks, Mara __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 10:13:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OEDjOL001367 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:13:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OED876007603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:13:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OED65l017565; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:13:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OED25l017462 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:13:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:12:57 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:12:44 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Subject: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century bobbin lace tools and techniques Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. Kirrily. There are two illos that I currently know of showing bobbin lace being made prior to the 17th cent. One is from the Nuw Modelbuch of 1561, which has been reprinted and is available through (at least) Unicorn Books. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What Mike said :). I was going to suggest checking out the various 16th C pattern books for woodcuts but did not have the titles handy here at work. Mike did :). I'm doing some reseach on this myself right now and hard facts on bobbin lace from the 16th century are difficult to find. And all those books by the 'experts' from the turn of the century don't help (sound of teeth gnashing). In regards to pillow stuffing, I just took a workshop on bobbin lace last weekend and one of the attendees was originally from Czechoslovakia, where she had taken BL classes 3 times a week as a child. She did beautiful work! She used a large bolster pillow she had stuffed herself, very tightly, with straw. She had been using the same pillow for 3 years. We didn't realize until the end of class that she had had another project, covered, on the reverse side of the pillow the whole time. She did most of her work with the bobbins in hand and they really flew! Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 10:27:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OERjOL001404 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:27:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OEQu76008745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:26:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OEQt5l026520; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:26:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OEQr5l026490 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:26:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-45-239.jps.net ([209.165.45.239] helo=pavilion) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AD2tw-0002N7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:26:52 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01c39a3b$82ce1e00$ef2da5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Testing Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:31:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO yes, Norton deleted an incoming email, from h-cost yesterday. Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 12:55 AM Subject: [h-cost] Testing > Have had a virus warning mentioning some h-cost addresses > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 10:32:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OEWGOL001503 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:32:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OEVc76009239 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:31:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OEVb5l029952; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:31:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OEVX5l029919 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:31:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lynne-laptop.ntlworld.com ([81.109.62.241]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.comESMTP <20031024143132.TLDL12263.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@lynne-laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:31:32 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20031024151547.0244ae58@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:31:27 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help identifying picture - peasant dance/wedding In-Reply-To: <20031024134548.73161.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20031023142506.05711a40@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7A6356C; boundary="=======16541AAD=======" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======16541AAD======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7A6356C; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 14:45 24/10/2003 Mara Riley said >--- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > > http://www.marariley.net/Temp/peasants.jpg > > > > I'd say it was 100 years after Brueghel, except that there are no > > ruffs or > > similar collars. The womens' caps look early 17thC Dutch to me, as > > does > > the style of the painting. From the style it is early to mid seventeenth century Dutch. Probably by a Catholic artists, as Protestant artists tended to use a more severe style. It looks like a bucolic painting, perhaps one of those peasant wedding pictures the Dutch were so fond of. Try Rubens, Brouwer, Hals. I'm pretty sure it isn't a Rubens, but you never know. The palette is wrong, and the composition, for Rubens. After Rubens, maybe, or by his studio. Jordaens, perhaps, although his paintings were generally more intimate. A bit late for Teniers and not his style. Not a Breughel. Here's a similar painting to keep yours company. This is a Rubens. http://www.abcgallery.com/R/rubens/rubens48.html Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE. VANESSA from Awe-Struck --=======16541AAD======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7A6356C Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.529 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 16/10/2003 --=======16541AAD======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======16541AAD=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 10:41:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OEfNOL001554 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:41:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OEeg76010733 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:40:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OEef5l006556; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:40:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OEec5l006526 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:40:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-67.31.92.143.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([67.31.92.143] helo=earthlink.net) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AD37E-00046i-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:40:37 -0700 Message-ID: <3F9939C2.50302@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:40:02 -0400 From: AF Murphy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Sixth Century Saxon X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A friend just called me with questions about clothing for Saxons at the time of the invasions of Britain. Possible interest also in Romano-British at the same time. Something about being a movie extra? He wants to do it right, I want him to do it right, and I know nothing about it. Any suggestions where I could find information fast? If anyone else brought this up, pardon me - I've had the list on no-mail for a while. Caught a Halloween gig, and you know, paid work and all that... I've had no time. Thanks. Anne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 10:54:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OEshOL001615 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:54:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OEs676011811 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:54:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OEs25l016218; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:54:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OErw5l016160 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:53:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from karen (CPE-24-31-232-172.kc.rr.com [24.31.232.172]) h9OEruhL026926 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:53:56 -0500 (CDT) From: "Talia" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:53:11 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <03fb01c399f6$cc886040$a2f74a43@4gxif> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Victoria and Albert Museum's "European Jewellery" book has several pictured as well, both open and closed. T. > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Helen Pinto > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 1:20 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders > > > Try these: > > Portrait of Queen Mary Tudor of England by > Anthonis Mor Van Dashorst (1554) > > Portrait of Eleanor of Toledo with her son by Agnolo > Bronzino (1544) > > Portrait of Jane Fitzalan by Steven van der Muelen > (1563) > > Portrait of Lady Jane Grey (painter and date unknown) > (full-length portrait in a gold and red gown) > > A silver pomander belonging to Mary Stuart in the > collection at Holyrood (very cool- it splits apart like > into wedges like one of those chocolate oranges) > > -Helen/Aidan > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 10:55:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OEt2OL001619 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:55:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OEsS76011871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:54:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OEsR5l016555; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:54:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OEsO5l016440 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:54:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.6e.3397608d (25305) for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:54:10 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <6e.3397608d.2cca9711@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:54:09 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Another Test, and Fabric-ness X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -taps Yahoo- Stop delaying/deleting my e-mail would you? Anyhow. www.emmaonesock.com has "heavier weight" natural-colored linen muslin on sale, $6 a yard. The website states that it's not "stiff or coated", so it might be worth buying and dye-ing, though certainly not for a chemise. The site also has a lovely natural-colored linen jacquard from Russia. Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 11:08:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OF8OOL001694 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:08:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OF7m76012958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:07:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OF7j39027269; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:07:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OF7c39027174 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:07:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22669; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:31:10 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:31:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: KWCostume_Symposium@yahoogroups.com, KWCS-AR List , Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] KWCS photos X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My photographer friend Don McClane has just posted his photos from this past weekend's Known World Costume Symposium in Denver. You'll find them here: http://www.tancos.net/costume/kwcs03.html These are only the participants in the Walk Through History (and I think even some of those people didn't stop by and get photographed, a shame). Feel free to forward this to other people who may be interested. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 11:26:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OFQLOL002057 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:26:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OFPf76014547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:25:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OFPd39012720; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:25:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40101.mail.yahoo.com (web40101.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9OFPb39012627 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:25:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031024152532.92831.qmail@web40101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [171.75.28.169] by web40101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:25:32 PDT Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:25:32 -0700 (PDT) From: me To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200310241413.h9OEDM5n017807@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Mens Costume 1520-1560 florence, venice X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I can find loads of information on women's costume for this period and location but for men I really cannot find any sort of amount. Studying portraiture is a fine start however I can't see legs. :-) Here's my question My husband will wear hose (bless his heart) But what about shoes? He would prefer boots. I am concerned these are not true to period and location. So far we have decided black doublet, pumpkinpants (slops I believe), and red hose possibly adding a cape. Are we heading in the right direction? Links please :-) Thank you so much, Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 11:31:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OFVLOL002068 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:31:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OFUb76014962 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:30:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OFUa39016978; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:30:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from berlinr.sprint.ca (berlinr.sprint.ca [209.5.194.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OFUX39016919 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:30:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shooie ([149.99.68.81]) by berlinr.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031024153031.RCJH2777.berlinr.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:30:31 -0400 Message-ID: <003e01c39a43$a93decc0$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F9939C2.50302@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sixth Century Saxon Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:29:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "AF Murphy" > A friend just called me with questions about clothing for Saxons at the > time of the invasions of Britain. Possible interest also in > Romano-British at the same time. Something about being a movie extra? > > He wants to do it right, I want him to do it right, and I know nothing > about it. Any suggestions where I could find information fast? > > If anyone else brought this up, pardon me - I've had the list on no-mail > for a while. Caught a Halloween gig, and you know, paid work and all > that... I've had no time. > > Thanks. > > Anne Hi, Here are some web sites that I hope will help: http://www.angelcynn.org.uk/ http://www.florilegium.org/files/CLOTHING/cl-Rom-Brit-art.html http://www.rook.org/heritage/german/anglosaxon.html http://www.regia.org/ (These are the guys you see in all of the BBC and History channel shows involving the dark ages) Sheridan -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 11:51:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OFpHOL002092 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:51:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OFoG76017051 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:50:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OFoE39003338; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:50:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OFoA39003282 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:50:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.188] (pm5-188.eos.net [205.133.149.188]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OFo8QY024191 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:50:09 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:42:38 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200310221632.h9MGW67Y010989@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: burnet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bluet, blanket, and scarlet were types of cloths -- my guess would be that burnet was a type of cloth and not a color, unless the color was integral to the type of cloth (though the word "brunette" might make one look for a connection, just as 'scarlet' makes a modern person think of bright red). I think Robin Netherton is the person who once posted about the cloth names above, so maybe she can shed some light on this. Otherwise, I'd head for the library and check out the OED. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 12:08:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OG8kOL002169 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:08:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OG7376018835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:07:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OG6xeD018349; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OG6veD018219 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:06:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F01BB425CE for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:10:58 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3F994EB4.4040301@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:09:24 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS photos References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > My photographer friend Don McClane has just posted his photos from this > past weekend's Known World Costume Symposium in Denver. You'll find them > here: > > http://www.tancos.net/costume/kwcs03.html Thanks! It's always nice to see what other people are making. I particularly like how the photographer has them against a blank, neutral colored wall. Our local costume event is held in a church, and the photos get taken against a stained glass window, which is pretty, but makes for lousy contrast when you try to study the photos afterward. :/ Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 12:13:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OGDbOL002179 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:13:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OGD076019545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:13:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OGCweD024115; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:12:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OGCseD024027 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:12:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23150 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:36:37 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:36:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: burnet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > Bluet, blanket, and scarlet were types of cloths -- my guess would be > that burnet was a type of cloth and not a color, unless the color was > integral to the type of cloth (though the word "brunette" might make > one look for a connection, just as 'scarlet' makes a modern person > think of bright red). I think Robin Netherton is the person who once > posted about the cloth names above, so maybe she can shed some light > on this. Otherwise, I'd head for the library and check out the OED. I'd use the OED only to supplement other sources. It's really rather unreliable when it comes to finding early or technical references to cloth and clothing, though it's nice for finding examples from more mainstream documents, particularly literature. To my understanding, "bluett" was specifically a blue cloth (a cheap woolen, apparently the cheapest dyed cloth available in the contexts for which I've seen references). The term "blanket" originally meant undyed cloth made from wool of a white sheep (blank = blanc); the name only later took on its modern meaning. "Russet" was undyed cloth made from wool of a black sheep and was more valuable than blanket because it had color to it, but cheaper than bluett because it was not dyed. I got this information mostly from Christopher Dyer's "Standards of Living in the Later Middle Ages," in a section discussion cheap cloth available to the average workingman, though I've seen the words used consistent with these definitions in other sources. We also had a good discussion of the changing use of the word "russet" on the list a while back. By the 16th century (or maybe part of the 15th) "russet" had taken on a color connotation of a reddish brown in some contexts, but was simultaneously used in its older meaning as a cloth name (undyed black wool, which might be grey or brown) in other contexts. So meaning depends a great deal of time period, and also on the type of document you're looking at. Scarlet, as you note, was a cloth rather than a color name, though I do think that it was most commonly a red, wasn't it? I have no idea about burnet. The people to ask would be Susan Carroll-Clark and Tom Izbicki, both of whom have done work in clothing restrictions for clerical people, and I bet it was one or the other that was being quoted in Chris Laning's repost from the medieval religion list. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 13:18:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OHINOL002536 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:18:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OHHg76025827 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:17:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OHHbZN019907; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:17:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OHHWZN019827 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:17:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23602 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:41:15 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:41:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS photos In-Reply-To: <3F994EB4.4040301@reddawn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Dawn wrote: > > http://www.tancos.net/costume/kwcs03.html > > Thanks! It's always nice to see what other people are making. I > particularly like how the photographer has them against a blank, neutral > colored wall. Our local costume event is held in a church, and the > photos get taken against a stained glass window, which is pretty, but > makes for lousy contrast when you try to study the photos afterward. :/ Don takes a "photojournalist" approach to these sorts of pictures -- he wants to document how the costumes look in wear, not to create a "medieval" image. (In fact, there was another photographer there doing spiffy "period-style" portraits superimposed over medieval-type backgrounds.) You can find Don's photos from earlier events -- KWCS I, and a few Calontir Clothiers' symposiums -- if you take the links at the bottom of the page. I'm annoyed that I didn't think to get some portraits done of my new Gothic fitted dress while I was wearing it for my lectures that day. Don takes all my costume photos (as well as photos of my kids, something I neglect to do!). But he was dancing all day at the event, and I was back in modern clothes before he set up the "studio." --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 14:39:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OIdcOL002759 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:39:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OIcv76003832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:38:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OIcsmh028961; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:38:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40107.mail.yahoo.com (web40107.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9OIcqmh028868 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:38:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031024183847.97531.qmail@web40107.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [171.75.11.29] by web40107.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:38:47 PDT Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:38:47 -0700 (PDT) From: me To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200310241800.h9OI0hmj026842@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] KWCS Photos X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO too fantastic! Thanks for the link- Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 15:05:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OJ5WOL003192 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:05:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OJ4m76006192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:04:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OJ4lBG019544; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:04:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail23.nyc.untd.com (outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com [64.136.21.170]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9OJ4iBG019450 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:04:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCtTxSdWcCvo6xpdmw/kAHRMPCeGNEtU3mw==">; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:04:27 PDT Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by webmail23.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JDAESSGP; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:04:27 PDT Received: from [67.73.131.209] by webmail23.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:04:21 GMT X-Originating-IP: [67.73.131.209] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Original-From: "seamstrix@juno.com" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:04:21 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mens Costume 1520-1560 florence, venice X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain From: seamstrix@juno.com Message-Id: <20031024.120427.5792.136712@webmail23.nyc.untd.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Boots are not completely wrong for the Elizabethan Male as long as they are of the correct style. The huge bucket-top cavalier boots aren't around yet, nor are the modern calf-high motorcycle style. What you need for an Elizabethan man's boot is something with a softly rounded toe, slim fitting thru the calf and knee, with a moderate turn down. The line of the leg was very slender. They were considered the gear of fighters and explorers but which would be changed as soon as possible for low shoes so as to be properly dressed in polite society. Remember, men WANTED to show off their fine legs! Correct period boots are pretty expensive- you might want to consider low shoes for simple economic reasons. As for the rest of the outfit, it sounds good, but I'd definitely add the cape. It really finishes off the look of the outfit and isn't really that hard to make. I wish I could send you links, but I'm at work right now and I don't have any of my costuming sources bookmarked here. I'm sure other folks on the list can point you to soem good resources. Karen -- me wrote: I can find loads of information on women's costume for this period and location but for men I really cannot find any sort of amount. Studying portraiture is a fine start however I can't see legs. :-) Here's my question My husband will wear hose (bless his heart) But what about shoes? He would prefer boots. I am concerned these are not true to period and location. So far we have decided black doublet, pumpkinpants (slops I believe), and red hose possibly adding a cape. Are we heading in the right direction? Links please :-) Thank you so much, Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 15:14:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OJE0OL003252 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:14:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OJDB76007933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:13:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OJD9BG026765; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:13:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OJD5BG026705 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:13:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.167.48] (helo=wamui10.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AD7Mv-0001h5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:13:05 -0400 Message-ID: <24647005.1067022785324.JavaMail.root@wamui10.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:13:05 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Talia wrote: >Victoria and Albert Museum's "European Jewellery" book has several pictured >as well, both open and closed. Other big, fat history-of-jewelry books are likely to have one or two of these pictured as well. And I believe there was a pomander "cage" in the Cheapside Hoard. (I don't remember which British museum that's in, though.) The biggest surprise I had was the small (around 2 inches diameter) size of most pomanders, especially since you often see costumers using a 3-inch pierced-metal Christmas ornament as a base for theirs. This is far bigger than the extant examples and would make a potentially lethal weapon if it was hanging from the end of your girdle and you turned around quickly! The extant ones I've seen are more like the size of a small "tea ball" (pierced metal container into which you put tea leaves to brew a cup of hot tea, so they can be removed before drinking). I've also seen brass wire cat-toys that consist of several 2-inch circles arranged like the longitude lines of a sphere and soldered together. They come with a small bell or yarn puff inside (which is easily removed). ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 15:33:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OJXsOL003396 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:33:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OJXF76011346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:33:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OJXEBG015434; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:33:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OJX9BG015349 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:33:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be2a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.42]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B62B82628F6 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 21:33:07 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003101c39a65$ad923340$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <24647005.1067022785324.JavaMail.root@wamui10.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 21:33:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The danish word for a pomander is: "hovedvands æg" translated to english it gets to headwater eggs. This is because most of them had the shape of an egg. This was something ladies always carried with them to church, so that when the smell got two bad, they could freshen the air with these eggs. They had a small pillow inside, wich was watered with the perfume. Here is an example from arround 1800 http://www.gauguin.dk/auction/XcAPViewItem.asp?ID=7510 Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Laning" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 9:13 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders /h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 15:53:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OJr7OL003438 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:53:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OJqL76014538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:52:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OJqJBG002583; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:52:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OJqGBG002467 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:52:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.192.2189cb89 (16035) for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:51:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-d13.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.129]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (v96.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID102-3ea33f9982b91ef; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:51:21 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:51:21 -0400 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0E0B20D0.7735B5B1.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Searching X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know that a few monthes ago people were discussing Elizabethan gloves... Does anyone have information, patterns, websites, books, anything to send me in the right direction? Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 15:54:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OJsYOL003454 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:54:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OJqp76014621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:52:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OJqnBG002964; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:52:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OJqjBG002843 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:52:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 366230 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:52:39 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:57:21 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <003101c39a65$ad923340$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9OJqjBG002843 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow, Bjarne, it really does look like an egg cup from someone's breakfast table, except the sulphur in the egg would do terrible things to the silver. LynnD On 10/24/03 12:33 PM, "Bjarne og Leif Drews" wrote: > The danish word for a pomander is: "hovedvands æg" translated to english it > gets to headwater eggs. This is because most of them had the shape of an > egg. > This was something ladies always carried with them to church, so that when > the smell got two bad, they could freshen the air with these eggs. They had > a small pillow inside, wich was watered with the perfume. > Here is an example from arround 1800 > http://www.gauguin.dk/auction/XcAPViewItem.asp?ID=7510 > > > Bjarne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Laning" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 9:13 PM > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders > > > /h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 15:56:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OJuROL003461 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:56:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OJtg76015151 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:55:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OJtep7005531; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:55:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OJtZp7005377 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:55:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:55:29 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:55:10 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Re: KWCS Photos X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > My photographer friend Don McClane has just posted his photos from this > past weekend's Known World Costume Symposium in Denver. You'll find them > here: > > http://www.tancos.net/costume/kwcs03.html Thanks! It's always nice to see what other people are making. I particularly like how the photographer has them against a blank, neutral colored wall. Our local costume event is held in a church, and the photos get taken against a stained glass window, which is pretty, but makes for lousy contrast when you try to study the photos afterward. :/ Dawn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dawn, if this is the event I am thinking of (February, in Olathe?), this is the same photographer :). It could be a space issue but you have a good point and maybe we can get him move for 04. Thanks for posting the site Robin! Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 16:05:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OK5QOL007622 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:05:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OK4676016392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:04:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OK45p7012969; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:04:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OK41p7012855 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:03:56 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:03:46 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Re: bobbin lace X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --sue, who uses anachronistic Midlands bobbins, because she gets to *bead* them! wahoo! ;o) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amen Sister! bead addiction is the dirty-little-secret of us bobbin lacers who use the Midlands bobbins :) :) :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 16:32:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OKWROL007646 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:32:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKVg76021484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:31:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKVep7008905; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:31:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKVZp7008818 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:31:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp264.pop1.net [209.102.127.101]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA06055 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:31:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp264.pop1.net [209.102.127.101] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <3F998C0A.1080609@pcez.com> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:31:06 -0700 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders References: <3F9868CE.1020009@pcez.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Audrey, as soon as I have it up and running I will let everyone know. I need to find my hard copy of the research paper. We moved earlier this year and I'm still looking for a few of my papers. I really need to update the research. Roscelin Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: >>Plus, I >>plan on creating a webpage diary on my pomander resin balls and the >>"cage" for them. >> >> > >I'll read that with great interest when it's ready. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 16:45:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OKjqOL007666 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:45:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKj976023130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:45:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKj7p7021186; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:45:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKj1p7021103 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:45:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNA00LRG4AZLU@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:44:49 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching In-reply-to: <0E0B20D0.7735B5B1.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031024133543.029d2d48@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:51 PM 10/24/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I know that a few monthes ago people were discussing Elizabethan >gloves... Does anyone have information, patterns, websites, books, >anything to send me in the right direction? > >Kit Hi Kit I am taking an Elizabethan glove making class from Franchesca Havas. She is teaching at Penny's online Costume Classroom. http://www.costumeclassroom.com/ Looking at the schedule, she will be teaching the class again in January. I am learning a lot from her through this online setting, especially as it is at my own pace. Franchesca also has her own website. http://www.glove.org/ I also found another site for gloves, but I think they base their info on Franchesca's work. http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_gloves.htm If you can, I would highly recommend taking her class in January. Being able to ask her questions on things has really helped me out, as sometimes I take things too seriously twisting my brain around something simple, and she is very calm and tells me to take a brake and enjoy some tea, at which point what she is telling me finally clicks, as it is much easier than I am making it out to be. hth Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 16:47:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OKl3OL007669 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:47:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKkR76023276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:46:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKkQp7022269; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:46:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKkNp7022227 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:46:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp264.pop1.net [209.102.127.101]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA06538 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:46:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp264.pop1.net [209.102.127.101] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <3F998F81.2050404@pcez.com> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:45:53 -0700 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders References: <24647005.1067022785324.JavaMail.root@wamui10.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chris Laning wrote: Chris: Other big, fat history-of-jewelry books are likely to have one or two of these pictured as well. The one other history of jewelry book I have is "Jewelry 70, 000 Years". I've already created the jeweled pomander resin ball. Even entered it and my research on pomanders at an Art and Science get together and was given an award. And was encouraged by the friends and the judges to create the "cage" part. Now that my jewelry skills have improved, I'm going to attempt to recreate the silver type of "cage". Chris: And I believe there was a pomander "cage" in the Cheapside Hoard. (I don't remember which British museum that's in, though.) Thanks. I'll see what I can find out. Chris: The biggest surprise I had was the small (around 2 inches diameter) size of most pomanders, especially since you often see costumers using a 3-inch pierced-metal Christmas ornament as a base for theirs. This is far bigger than the extant examples and would make a potentially lethal weapon if it was hanging from the end of your girdle and you turned around quickly! Yeah, they are actually quite small. I have a book that shows 17th C. silver pomanders and perfume flagons. My youngest son gifted me with one of the Christmas ornament types, and yes they can be deadly. I believe I received a bruise on the leg from it. :) Chris: The extant ones I've seen are more like the size of a small "tea ball" (pierced metal container into which you put tea leaves to brew a cup of hot tea, so they can be removed before drinking). I've also seen brass wire cat-toys that consist of several 2-inch circles arranged like the longitude lines of a sphere and soldered together. They come with a small bell or yarn puff inside (which is easily removed). I know what the silver ones look like, but would like to try to recreate one or at least one that closely resembles it. If I don't find one before I have to start the jewelry project for my class I have started to come up with designs for one. It will be about 2", sterling silver, hinged with some kind of clasp (this the one thing I really would like to know what the period clasp would look like), I will either pierce it with diamond or heart cut outs, and I just found a fluer-de-le punch. I'll have the design drawn out and posted on the website when I get it up and running along with diary pictures of the work in progress. Thanks for the info and help. Roscelin > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 16:47:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OKlQOL007672 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:47:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKke76023301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:46:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKkdp7022436; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:46:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKkSp7022289 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:46:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25146 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:10:13 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:10:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS Photos In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn wrote: > Thanks! It's always nice to see what other people are making. I > particularly like how the photographer has them against a blank, > neutral colored wall. Our local costume event is held in a church, and > the photos get taken against a stained glass window, which is pretty, > but makes for lousy contrast when you try to study the photos > afterward. :/ Catherine responded: > Dawn, if this is the event I am thinking of (February, in Olathe?), > this is the same photographer :). It could be a space issue but you > have a good point and maybe we can get him move for 04. Hi, Catherine ;-) If you're thinking of Clothiers', Don has his photos from 1999 (?) and 2000 on the same site: http://www.tancos.net/costume/clothiers.html http://www.tancos.net/costume/00clothiers.html ... but none of those have a stained-glass window background. Don generally brings his own backdrops to use if he can't find a blank wall. I don't think he's been to Clothiers' for the last few years, so perhaps there's been another photographer there? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 16:50:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OKo6OL007678 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:50:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKn176023534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKn0p7024404; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:49:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKmup7024337 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:48:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.167.41] (helo=wamui03.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AD8rf-0001rH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:48:55 -0400 Message-ID: <14651773.1067028535671.JavaMail.root@wamui03.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:48:55 -0400 (EDT) From: hpinto@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Roscelin- You can find the first two portraits at either Web Gallery of Art or Artcyclopedia; find it by painter search. The two Janes will turn up if you search altavista by images using their full names. The pomander also turned up in the altavista images. Maybe some others on the list can help you with the location of these items in books. -Helen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 16:57:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OKv1OL007686 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:57:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKta76024080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:55:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKtGQh029226; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:55:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKt5Qh029086 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:55:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp264.pop1.net [209.102.127.101]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA06776 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:55:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp264.pop1.net [209.102.127.101] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <3F99918B.4070404@pcez.com> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:54:35 -0700 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lynn and Bjarne, There are a couple of 18th and 19th C. ones on Ebay right now. Or at least they were there yeseterday when I was hunting all over for some pictures of pomanders. During the middle ages, both men and women wore them supposably the scent would chase away the plague or any other disease. And of course, they were worn to cover up any other disagreeable smells. Many times they were also on rosaries. On the rosaries I have seen they look like large silver, pierced beads. I may make one of these also. Thank you, Bjarne, for the Danish word for pomanders. My ancesters are from Denmark. :) Roscelin Lynn Downward wrote: >Wow, Bjarne, it really does look like an egg cup from someone's breakfast table, except the sulphur in the egg would do terrible things to the silver. > >LynnD > >On 10/24/03 12:33 PM, "Bjarne og Leif Drews" >wrote: > > > >>The danish word for a pomander is: "hovedvands æg" translated to english it gets to headwater eggs. This is because most of them had the shape of an egg. >>This was something ladies always carried with them to church, so that when the smell got two bad, they could freshen the air with these eggs. They had a small pillow inside, wich was watered with the perfume. >>Here is an example from arround 1800 >>http://www.gauguin.dk/auction/XcAPViewItem.asp?ID=7510 >> >> >>Bjarne >> >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 17:03:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OL3jOL007709 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:03:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OL2u76024764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:02:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OL2qQh005460; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:02:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OL2mQh005360 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:02:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A317C50064; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:01:11 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A313D800C2; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:01:07 -0500 Message-ID: <00d801c39a72$9c432060$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <0E0B20D0.7735B5B1.0BD9917F@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:05:51 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kit, Franchesca aka Chesa teaches a class on my Costume Classroom on how to make Elizabethan Gloves. Her next class starts in January. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 17:04:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OL4vOL007716 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:04:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKRK76020643 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:27:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKRHp7004689; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:27:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKRDp7004612 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:27:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp264.pop1.net [209.102.127.101]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA05851 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:27:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp264.pop1.net [209.102.127.101] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <3F998B04.2030807@pcez.com> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:26:44 -0700 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders References: <3F9868CE.1020009@pcez.com> <03fb01c399f6$cc886040$a2f74a43@4gxif> <3F9927AF.8060507@faucet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you, Melanie. I'll have to write them. I've already sent off a letter to the Victoria and Albert Museum and plan on writing to the London Museum in the very near future. Roscelin Melanie Schuessler wrote: > Helen Pinto wrote: > >> A silver pomander belonging to Mary Stuart in the collection at >> Holyrood (very cool- it splits apart like into wedges like one >> of those chocolate oranges) > > > I believe there's one of these at Agecroft Hall in Virginia. You can > find contact info on their website at http://www.agecrofthall.com > > Cheers, > Melanie Schuessler > > > http://www.faucet.net/costume > http://www.coastal.edu/theater > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 17:04:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OL4vON007716 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:04:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKOk76020164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:24:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKOip7002360; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:24:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKOdp7002281 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:24:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp264.pop1.net [209.102.127.101]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA05763 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:24:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp264.pop1.net [209.102.127.101] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <3F998A69.4040107@pcez.com> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:24:09 -0700 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders References: <3F9868CE.1020009@pcez.com> <03fb01c399f6$cc886040$a2f74a43@4gxif> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Helen, Where can I find these pictures? The only Elizabethan book I have is "Queen Elizabeth Wardrobe Unlock'd". My personna is closer to 14th C., although I have done an Elizabethan gown or two on grand occassions. Thank you for letting me know where to look. Roscelin P.S. I've seen the Mary Stuart one before. But unfortnately my jewelry skills are not quite that good yet. :) Helen Pinto wrote: >Try these: > >Portrait of Queen Mary Tudor of England by > Anthonis Mor Van Dashorst (1554) > >Portrait of Eleanor of Toledo with her son by Agnolo > Bronzino (1544) > >Portrait of Jane Fitzalan by Steven van der Muelen > (1563) > >Portrait of Lady Jane Grey (painter and date unknown) > (full-length portrait in a gold and red gown) > >A silver pomander belonging to Mary Stuart in the > collection at Holyrood (very cool- it splits apart like > into wedges like one of those chocolate oranges) > > -Helen/Aidan > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 17:09:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OL9nOL007744 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:09:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OL9376025349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:09:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OL92Qh010551; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OL8uQh010457 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:08:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp264.pop1.net [209.102.127.101]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA07205 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:09:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp264.pop1.net [209.102.127.101] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <3F9994CA.6090405@pcez.com> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:08:26 -0700 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders References: <14651773.1067028535671.JavaMail.root@wamui03.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, Helen. Roscelin hpinto@mindspring.com wrote: >Roscelin- >You can find the first two portraits at either Web Gallery of Art or Artcyclopedia; find it by painter search. The two Janes will turn up if you search altavista by images using their full names. The pomander also turned up in the altavista images. Maybe some others on the list can help you with the location of these >items in books. > -Helen > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 17:23:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OLNMOL007759 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:23:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OLMc76026535 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:22:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OLMZQh021315; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:22:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav42.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OLMWQh021191 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:22:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:42:40 -0700 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav42.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:42:40 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031024152532.92831.qmail@web40101.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mens Costume 1520-1560 florence, venice Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:44:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Oct 2003 16:42:40.0459 (UTC) FILETIME=[D6DEC9B0:01C39A4D] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I can find loads of information on women's costume for this period and location but for men I really cannot find any sort of amount. Studying portraiture is a fine start however I can't see legs. :-) Some of them do show legs. Did you look through pictures on the Web Gallery of Art (gallery.euroweb.hu)? I went to advanced search and asked for Painting, Portrait, Italian, 1500-1550 and then the same for 1550-1600. The majority don't show legs, but some do. > Here's my question My husband will wear hose (bless his heart) But what about shoes? He would prefer boots. I am concerned these are not true to period and location. Hmm, most, if not all portraits I could find show slipper-type shoes, but with slops I know that, at least in England, high bucket boots could also be worn (the type that goes over the knee, or that you can fold the flap down below the knee). Not with Venetian breeches, though! (I don't know if high boots were worn in Italy, but you could always say he got them while travelling to England! That's what I'll do when I make/buy/obtain a pair of chopines - say I got them from Venice, even if I usually prefer Florentian fashion. People travelled a lot more than we tend to think.) Good links for shoes http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/%7Emarc-carlson/shoe/SLIST5.HTM (patterns) http://www.raveness.com/renaissance/shoes.html (pictures) > So far we have decided black doublet, pumpkinpants (slops I believe), and red hose possibly adding a cape. Are we heading in the right direction? Links please :-) I think you're heading in the right direction. Black was very, very popular at the time. I think the second most popular colors must have been everything in the red to pink tones, so you choice of colors seem fine. Italy seemed to favor slops over breeches, even if we call them Venetian breeches - but breeches might just be a later fashion - I haven't looked at enough portraits yet to tell. So, slops are fine. The longish ones seem more popular than the very short ones (short ones seem, again, to be more English than Italian). I can't see cloaks on portraits, though. They seem to have been more popular in England. What Italians have, most of the times, is a kind of overcoat with short sleeves or a kind of epaulette, lined with fur. As for links, again I suggest you browse through the hundreds of paintings on the Web Gallery of Art. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 17:26:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OLQ1OL007764 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:26:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKTA76020994 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:29:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKT9p7006342; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:29:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OKT5p7006289 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:29:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp264.pop1.net [209.102.127.101]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA05911 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:29:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp264.pop1.net [209.102.127.101] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <3F998B74.9020805@pcez.com> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:28:36 -0700 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, Talia. I'm going to check with my library and see if they have a copy. Thank goodness I finally learned about the ILL, it has been a God send. Roscelin Talia wrote: >Victoria and Albert Museum's "European Jewellery" book has several pictured >as well, both open and closed. > >T. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 17:26:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OLQsOL007767 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:26:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OLQA76026870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:26:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OLQ8Qh024046; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:26:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav24.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OLQ5Qh023904 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:26:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:20:21 -0700 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav24.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:20:21 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000e01c39a3b$82ce1e00$ef2da5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Testing Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:21:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Oct 2003 16:20:21.0868 (UTC) FILETIME=[B90202C0:01C39A4A] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's not necessarily from h-cost. Many viruses fake addresses and From fields. It just means someone had your address and h-cost address, or h-cost messages, in their mailbox. Norton didn't warn me about anything from h-cost, and it's always updated, so it might not be from h-cost directly, just from a common acquaintance. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 10:31 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Testing > yes, Norton deleted an incoming email, from h-cost yesterday. > > Lisa Sinervo > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kate M Bunting" > To: > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 12:55 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Testing > > > > Have had a virus warning mentioning some h-cost addresses > > > > Kate Bunting > > Library, University of Derby > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 17:54:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OLscOL007799 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:54:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OLrR76029239 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:53:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OLrLQh016120; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:53:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mxsf01.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf01.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OLrIQh016009 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:53:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from laptop ([68.185.170.41])h9OLpKiw015462 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:51:20 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lotsofteapots@charter.net) Message-ID: <002a01c39a78$d7dddba0$29aab944@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F99918B.4070404@pcez.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:50:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK, just how strong were the scents carried around in these things? I mean, if it's supposed to cover up nasty smells and chase away disease, I would imagine they had to be pretty pungent. It's starting to remind me of the person who gets on the elevator and gasses everyone out with their cologne. :-) > During the middle ages, both men and women wore them supposably the >scent would chase away the plague or any other disease. And of course, >they were worn to cover up any other disagreeable smells. Many times >they were also on rosaries. On the rosaries I have seen they look like >large silver, pierced beads. I may make one of these also. ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 18:26:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9OMQkOL007903 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:26:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OMQ976002670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:26:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OMQ7KC011135; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:26:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OMQ0KC011036 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ADANb-0003nB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:25:59 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:26:01 -0700 Message-ID: <001e01c39a7d$d02e2360$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <3F9927AF.8060507@faucet.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.belleofthebay.com/jewelryphotogallery.htm http://home.sprynet.com/~gipsyped/brooches.htm I know there is another one out there, but can't find it...he does spoons too. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 19:21:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ONLYOL008108 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:21:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ONKw76007746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:20:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ONKiuD026354; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:20:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ONKfuD026239 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:20:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m13.in-tch.com [216.166.191.13]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9OMxlk29691 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:59:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F99B459.F41353BC@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:23:05 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS photos References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey, thanks for sharing...I was so bummed that I had to miss it. How did the classes and lectures go? --sue, stuck at home paying for car repairs ;o( Robin Netherton wrote: > > My photographer friend Don McClane has just posted his photos from this > past weekend's Known World Costume Symposium in Denver. You'll find them > here: > > http://www.tancos.net/costume/kwcs03.html > > These are only the participants in the Walk Through History (and I think > even some of those people didn't stop by and get photographed, a shame). > > Feel free to forward this to other people who may be interested. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 20:01:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9P01WOL008298 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:01:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P00i76010757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:00:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P00gQw025511; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:00:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P00BQw025238 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:00:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp473.pop1.net [209.102.126.73]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA12723 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:00:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp473.pop1.net [209.102.126.73] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <3F99BCED.3060309@pcez.com> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:59:41 -0700 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders References: <001e01c39a7d$d02e2360$6501a8c0@SG01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you, Saragrace. The pomanders were some of the ones I have been seeking. Roscelin Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: >http://www.belleofthebay.com/jewelryphotogallery.htm > >http://home.sprynet.com/~gipsyped/brooches.htm > >I know there is another one out there, but can't find it...he does spoons >too. > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 21:26:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9P1Q7OL008479 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 21:26:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P1PP76015507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:25:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P1PN9O005623; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:25:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P1PK9O005589 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:25:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26727 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:49:05 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:49:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS photos In-Reply-To: <3F99B459.F41353BC@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Sue Clemenger wrote: > Hey, thanks for sharing...I was so bummed that I had to miss it. How > did the classes and lectures go? Would have loved to have seen you there, and I know you would have enjoyed it. I think half the SCA costuming community was there. I have no idea of the numbers, but it was clear the event had taken over the hotel. I don't know how anyone else's classes went; I made it to half a class, and otherwise spent the rest of the time teaching (four Saturday lectures and a Sunday all-day workshop), changing clothes, shuffling slides, and caffeinating myself ;-) Never even made it into the hotel pool, which was one of my goals for the weekend, but that was my only disappointment -- oh yes, and the fact that I didn't make it to Tawny Sherrill's lectures (she was the other guest speaker). But I had a great time. I had good-sized audiences who seemed to be having fun and who came up with interesting discussion. I got to meet a few people from this list, and re-meet a few others -- Marc and Jennifer Carlson, Teena Kessinger, oh why is my brain shorting out on other names? I rode in from the airport on the same shuttle as Amy Heilveil; funny how it was easy to spot the Other Costumer at the bus stop. I know there were other people I knew, but I can't remember who might be known on this list. Other stuff: The Walk through History was brief but impressive; the photos tell that part well. I opted out of feast because I knew I'd be too wiped out from lecturing to enjoy having to dress up to eat, so I presume someone else who wanted to be there had the pleasure. There was a masked ball Saturday night, where there seemed to be sufficient music and dancing to please those as could dance (including my photographer friend, who also reports that the track of dance classes was extensive and fulfilling, as that's where he spent all day). The merchants were very well-selected, with yummy fabrics and books and trims and things, and seemed to be doing good business. All this was going on in conjunction with another Known World event for rapier fighters, so there was a lot of overlap, but I have no idea what the rapier people were doing class-wise. Someone else who is more in tune with things can report better than I can. I was rather distracted ;- --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 22:33:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9P2XKOL008601 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:33:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P2WY76018787 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:32:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P2WWlM003246; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:32:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P2WUlM003212 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:32:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a210.in-tch.com [66.62.107.10]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9P2BZk18513 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:11:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3F99E14E.3D53D7D0@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:34:54 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS photos References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd of course love to hear about any aspects of the event, but it was actually *your* stuff I was wondering about (hit the reply button, rather than your private addy! ) Since I've been fortunate enough to take your workshop, and get the Fitted Gown and Greenland lectures, I was particularly interested in how your Victorian-Influence lecture went. Some of the late-19th c. pseudo-medieval stuff is just awful, but some of it's just droolsome....*sigh*...(me and pre-Raphaelites ;o) Plus, of course, I get to wondering about how our current (20th/21st c.) tastes and values are affecting our views of such things. I even have a good time torturing myself pondering how particular micro-cultures (Faires, or SCA, for example) can affect one's taste in historical clothing. I know it affected mine, and my learning curve as well, in both useful and non-productive ways.... --sue, waxing verbose on a Friday night.... Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > Hey, thanks for sharing...I was so bummed that I had to miss it. How > > did the classes and lectures go? > > Would have loved to have seen you there, and I know you would have enjoyed > it. I think half the SCA costuming community was there. I have no idea of > the numbers, but it was clear the event had taken over the hotel. > > I don't know how anyone else's classes went; I made it to half a class, > and otherwise spent the rest of the time teaching (four Saturday lectures > and a Sunday all-day workshop), changing clothes, shuffling slides, and > caffeinating myself ;-) Never even made it into the hotel pool, which was > one of my goals for the weekend, but that was my only disappointment -- oh > yes, and the fact that I didn't make it to Tawny Sherrill's lectures (she > was the other guest speaker). But I had a great time. I had good-sized > audiences who seemed to be having fun and who came up with interesting > discussion. I got to meet a few people from this list, and re-meet a few > others -- Marc and Jennifer Carlson, Teena Kessinger, oh why is my brain > shorting out on other names? I rode in from the airport on the same > shuttle as Amy Heilveil; funny how it was easy to spot the Other Costumer > at the bus stop. I know there were other people I knew, but I can't > remember who might be known on this list. > > Other stuff: The Walk through History was brief but impressive; the photos > tell that part well. I opted out of feast because I knew I'd be too wiped > out from lecturing to enjoy having to dress up to eat, so I presume > someone else who wanted to be there had the pleasure. There was a masked > ball Saturday night, where there seemed to be sufficient music and dancing > to please those as could dance (including my photographer friend, who also > reports that the track of dance classes was extensive and fulfilling, as > that's where he spent all day). The merchants were very well-selected, > with yummy fabrics and books and trims and things, and seemed to be doing > good business. All this was going on in conjunction with another Known > World event for rapier fighters, so there was a lot of overlap, but I have > no idea what the rapier people were doing class-wise. > > Someone else who is more in tune with things can report better than I can. > I was rather distracted ;- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 22:57:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9P2vDOL008677 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:57:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P2uc76019971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:56:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P2ubmT012934; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:56:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P2uYmT012920 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:56:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-50-150.jps.net ([209.165.50.150]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ADEbR-0006hf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:56:33 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3F998F81.2050404@pcez.com> References: <24647005.1067022785324.JavaMail.root@wamui10.slb.atl.earthlink.net> <3F998F81.2050404@pcez.com> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:55:41 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 1:28 PM -0700 10/24/03, Roscelin wrote: >Thanks, Talia. I'm going to check with my library and see if they >have a copy. Thank goodness I finally learned about the ILL, it has >been a God send. > >Roscelin > >Talia wrote: > >>Victoria and Albert Museum's "European Jewellery" book has several pictured >>as well, both open and closed. Bring all your muscles when you go to take this book home -- it's large and very heavy. And utterly gorgeous. Its chapter on paternosters and rosaries has more information packed into it than I've seen in one place anywhere else (including several whole books on the subject). I keep kicking myself because I should have bought it when it was in print for $200 or thereabouts -- it went out of print several years ago and the price promptly shot up to the $500 range. The author is Donald Lightbown. ================================================== Now that I'm at home where my books are: Another book you'll want to look for is this one, which has more than a dozen good pictures (in black and white, alas) of the sort of scent-holding pendants, reliquaries, and pomanders that people hung from their belts, etc: _Jewels in Spain, 1500-1800_ by Priscilla E. Muller; 1972, The Hispanic Society of America There are some similar things also in: _ Five centuries of Jewelry _ by Leonor d'Orey, Institut Portuguèse de Museus, Zwemmer, 1995. ISBN 0-502-00660-5 I'm not sure how many of these little objects are pomanders exactly -- i.e. pierced metal containers that held solid perfume substances -- but there is a wide range of similar pendant-thingies out there that seem to share the same general sorts of design, motifs, et cetera. IIRC, there's at least one book-shaped pendant in one of these books that the authors say has a pierced compartment that could either be a place to store a relic where it could be seen through the piercings, or a place to put scent which would diffuse out. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 24 22:57:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9P2vKOL008680 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:57:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P2um76019989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:56:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P2ummT012990; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:56:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P2uamT012932 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:56:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 209-165-50-150.jps.net ([209.165.50.150]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ADEbT-0006hf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:56:36 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:56:24 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: burnet Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:36 AM -0500 10/24/03, Robin Netherton wrote: >I have no idea about burnet. The people to ask would be Susan >Carroll-Clark and Tom Izbicki, both of whom have done work in clothing >restrictions for clerical people, and I bet it was one or the other that >was being quoted in Chris Laning's repost from the medieval religion list. Yes, it was Tom Izbicki. For those who asked, the medieval religion mailing list I was referring to is this one: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html There are a fair number of literature-research types on it, so it occasionally gets off on tangents that don't interest me much, but there are also some very interesting discussions and a very wide range of helpful people. One of the list members also does a "saints of the day" feature which is often quite entertaining. A recent sample with some actual vaguely h-costume relevance: >Today (12. October) is the feast day of: > >Herlinda and Relinda (d. c. 745 and 750) H. and R. were daughters of an >Austrasian noble family. Their dad founded a convent for them at Maaseik, >Belgium; they served as first and second abbesses of the community. They >were active supporters of the mission to the Frisians, friends of both >Willibrord and Boniface. (One of the earliest surviving pieces of European silk-and-gold embroidery is the so-called "chasuble of Sts. Harlindis and Relindis", these same two ladies. It does seem to be contemporary with them, but they probably didn't embroider it themselves, since it seems to have been imported from England. In its present form, the main embroidery is pieced together from fragments that may have originally come from altar or church furnishings -- the two long strips of embroidered architectural arcades especially suggest this.) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 00:07:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9P47WOL008996 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 00:07:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P45g76022984 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:05:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P45c77010674; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:05:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav7.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P45Z77010603 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:05:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 21:05:30 -0700 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav7.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 04:05:29 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F99E14E.3D53D7D0@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS photos Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 00:07:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Oct 2003 04:05:30.0072 (UTC) FILETIME=[3AA99D80:01C39AAD] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I even have a > good time torturing myself pondering how particular micro-cultures > (Faires, or SCA, for example) can affect one's taste in historical > clothing. I went to a pretty big SCA event last weekend (well, 200 - 250 people is a big event around here). We had royalty (our Kingdom's King, and royalty from neighboring kingdom), which means most people took out their nicest clothes. Well. Let's just say I'm afraid of making the Queen jealous of my dresses, once I get them finished. There was not a lot of eye candy (clothing, I mean - there were some nice guys present, don't worry). I used to think there was plenty. Which leads me to think: h-cost and margospatterns lists (and SCA-Garb list, a few months ago, but it was too high traffic and I had to unsubscribe) influence my tastes in clothing MUCH more than actual micro-societies in which I participate physically. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 03:35:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9P7ZbOL011005 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 03:35:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P7Yx76000236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Oct 2003 01:34:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P7YsmN006008; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 01:34:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P7YpmN005991 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 01:34:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.159.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.159] helo=4gxif) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ADIwk-0001MR-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 03:34:51 -0400 Message-ID: <01ac01c39aca$7f4363a0$9ff74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F99918B.4070404@pcez.com> <002a01c39a78$d7dddba0$29aab944@mad.chartermi.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 03:34:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rebecca wrote: > OK, just how strong were the scents carried around in these things? I mean, > if it's supposed to cover up nasty smells and chase away disease, I would > imagine they had to be pretty pungent. > > It's starting to remind me of the person who gets on the elevator and gasses > everyone out with their cologne. :-) Take a look at this link: http://www.florilegium.org/files/PERSONAL/perfumes-msg.html It's an archive of messages which reference several books containing recipes for pomander fillings, and a few recipes in-line. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 03:44:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9P7iUOL014674 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 03:44:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P7hv76000495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Oct 2003 01:43:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P7htmN009043; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 01:43:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9P7hrmN009027 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 01:43:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f1b.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.27]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id F07C6262969 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:43:51 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001101c39acb$c26ae5d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:44:02 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] lace tools in 16th. century. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello. Here is answer i got from my lace group. Vibeke surely dont mind i quote her to you: Bjarne While you find 17th century lacepillows on paintings you have to go to engravings to find the few 16th century examples. Lacemaking as we know it was getting established at that time. The lacepillows are of very different forms, suggesting that the tools used for different older types of plaiting were still used. Tamara told about the two lacemakers to be found on the cover of: Tornehave, Bodil: Danske Frihåndskniplinger. Notabene, Copenhagen 1987. ISBN 87-7490-291-1. "Nüw Modelbuch" was published in 1561 and you can find the whole facsimile in: Burkhard, Claire: Faszinierendes Klöppeln "Nüw Modelbuch" 1561. Paul Haupt, Bern 1986. ISBN 3-258-03610-1 Some of the forerunners of lacepillows can be seen in Mrs. Palliser on page 91 Fig. 43 and page 110 Fig. 50. If you look at M. Dreger's Entwicklungs-Geschichte der Spitze (on the Professor's site), you can see another strange lacepillow on Abb. 21, it should be from about 1587. There is a much more normal lacepillow in a Flemish book by Martine Bruggeman. Tamara will you share the photo you recently took of the engraving by Jan Saenredam after Hendrik Goltzius? It should be from the 3rd quarter of the 16th century. These are the examples I have, has anybody any more? Stretching the 16th century a few years, there is actually an example I have found. Take a look at page 22 of the OIDFA Bulletin 1993/4. In 1603 Alessandro Allori painted an Annunciation, where the Virgin Mary had put her lacepillow aside. Her bobbins were the 'flute' bobbins of the low-warp loom. The lacepillow is a bolster type in a basket. Greetings Vibeke in cold and dark Copenhagen - Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 09:12:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PDC7OL020572 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:12:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PDBH76015123 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Oct 2003 07:11:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PDBCkn011567; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 07:11:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13404.mail.yahoo.com (web13404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9PDBAkn011549 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 07:11:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20031025131109.5150.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.49.7.219] by web13404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 06:11:09 PDT Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 06:11:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley To: Revlist , revwarcostume@yahoogroups.com, 1812Civilian <1812civilian@yahoogroups.com>, 18thCWoman List <18cWoman@yahoogroups.com>, 19CWoman List <19cwoman@yahoogroups.com>, H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] For sale -- industrial Singer sewing machine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In the interest of clearing out space in my basement, I'm selling an industrial Singer sewing machine, model 241-2, Serial #AH508688. I believe it's in working condition, but needs a motor. It has a table, and is too large to ship via UPS, so if you want it, you'll need to pick it up. I'm located in Waldorf, Maryland. We were going to fit it with a Sailrite motor that had variable speeds, because the old motor had two speeds, stop and go. We bought it when I thought I'd be making sails for boats. We wound up selling the boat when we moved, because we had no space for storing it, so -- no need for sails. Price: $150 Mara Riley __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 09:43:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PDhuOL020772 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:43:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PDhK76016443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Oct 2003 07:43:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PDhIkn023258; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 07:43:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PDhGkn023245 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 07:43:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail21.ureach.com (mail21.ureach.com [172.16.2.81]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA14671 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:43:16 -0400 Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-158-78-164.asm.bellsouth.net [68.158.78.164]) by mail21.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA22090 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:43:16 -0400 Message-ID: <003501c39afd$f0e77590$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001e01c39a7d$d02e2360$6501a8c0@SG01> <3F99BCED.3060309@pcez.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:43:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is a lovely one at pewter replicas as well. http://www.pewterreplicas.co.uk/pomander%20and%20scent%20bottle.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roscelin" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders > Thank you, Saragrace. The pomanders were some of the ones I have been > seeking. > > Roscelin > > Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > > >http://www.belleofthebay.com/jewelryphotogallery.htm > > > >http://home.sprynet.com/~gipsyped/brooches.htm > > > >I know there is another one out there, but can't find it...he does spoons > >too. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 09:53:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PDrSOL020889 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:53:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PDqr76016977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Oct 2003 07:52:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PDqqkn026738; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 07:52:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PDqJkn026539 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 07:52:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail21.ureach.com (mail21.ureach.com [172.16.2.81]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA17128 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:52:18 -0400 Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-158-78-164.asm.bellsouth.net [68.158.78.164]) by mail21.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA32131 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:52:18 -0400 Message-ID: <004c01c39aff$3425b410$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F99E14E.3D53D7D0@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS photos Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:52:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Victorian influence lecture was fascinating. I knew about the influence of the Victorians on the modern perceptions of what is medieval, but Robin showed the evolution from period images to, in some cases, ridiculous interpretations. You could see how one person made a mistake copying an original and watch that mistake get carried over as others copied that image and made their own mistakes etc. It was like playing a visual game of operator. I think she said her original lecture was longer and she had to cut out some slides. I wish we had been able to see the whole thing. Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS photos > I'd of course love to hear about any aspects of the event, but it was > actually *your* stuff I was wondering about (hit the reply button, > rather than your private addy! ) > Since I've been fortunate enough to take your workshop, and get the > Fitted Gown and Greenland lectures, I was particularly interested in how > your Victorian-Influence lecture went. Some of the late-19th c. > pseudo-medieval stuff is just awful, but some of it's just > droolsome....*sigh*...(me and pre-Raphaelites ;o) > Plus, of course, I get to wondering about how our current (20th/21st c.) > tastes and values are affecting our views of such things. I even have a > good time torturing myself pondering how particular micro-cultures > (Faires, or SCA, for example) can affect one's taste in historical > clothing. I know it affected mine, and my learning curve as well, in > both useful and non-productive ways.... > --sue, waxing verbose on a Friday night.... > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 11:24:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PFO3OL021457 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:24:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PFNQ76021728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:23:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PFNOai003029; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:23:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PFNLai003002 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:23:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip151.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.151]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D20076F57F for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:23:19 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:23:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders Message-ID: <3F9A32F6.32033.143239D1@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <3F998F81.2050404@pcez.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Bring all your muscles when you go to take this book home -- it's > large and very heavy. And utterly gorgeous. Its chapter on > paternosters and rosaries has more information packed into it than > I've seen in one place anywhere else (including several whole books on > the subject). I keep kicking myself because I should have bought it > when it was in print for $200 or thereabouts -- it went out of print > several years ago and the price promptly shot up to the $500 range. > The author is Donald Lightbown. Do you mean Ronald W. Lightbown's _Medieaeval European Jewellery_? It certainly is a great book! I know plenty of people who would love to get a copy, but I know many people who are searching for it and can't find it for any price. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 11:31:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PFVYOL021529 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:31:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PFUw76022087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:30:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PFUvai005997; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:30:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PFUtai005980 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:30:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip151.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.151]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C18C6DAF7 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:30:53 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:30:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pomanders Message-ID: <3F9A34B7.1585.143915EC@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3F998F81.2050404@pcez.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Chris: And I believe there was a pomander "cage" in the Cheapside > Hoard. (I don't remember which British museum that's in, though.) Cheapside Hoard is in the MOL. However, it is 17th C and she is looking for pre-17th C pomanders. Good thing I have most of the books that you'all have mentioned. When she comes over on Tuesday she can take a look at them! Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 12:45:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PGjeOL021667 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:45:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PGix76026078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:44:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PGitq4007715; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:44:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav61.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.196]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PGiYq4007559 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:44:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:44:29 -0700 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav61.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:44:29 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F99E14E.3D53D7D0@in-tch.com> <004c01c39aff$3425b410$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> Subject: Re: [h-cost] KWCS photos Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:46:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Oct 2003 16:44:29.0336 (UTC) FILETIME=[422DD980:01C39B17] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The Victorian influence lecture was fascinating. I knew about the influence > of the Victorians on the modern perceptions of what is medieval, but Robin > showed the evolution from period images to, in some cases, ridiculous > interpretations. You could see how one person made a mistake copying an > original and watch that mistake get carried over as others copied that image > and made their own mistakes etc. It was like playing a visual game of > operator. I think she said her original lecture was longer and she had to > cut out some slides. I wish we had been able to see the whole thing. > > Teena Hmm, I'd LOVE to see something like that online, so I could finally send people to real research when I'm trying to get exactly the same point across... I don't know how many times I tried to explain this, only to end up sounding very NOT convincing to my own ears :-) This is one of the parts of costume history that fascinates me, even if it is extremely frustrating. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 14:59:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PIxvOL021993 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:59:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PIxB76003256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:59:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PIx9Gx007386; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:59:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PIx6Gx007363 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:59:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31500 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:22:53 -0500 Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:22:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Victorian influence on sources, was: KWCS photos X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Teena wrote: > > The Victorian influence lecture was fascinating. I knew about the > > influence of the Victorians on the modern perceptions of what is > > medieval, but Robin showed the evolution from period images to, in > > some cases, ridiculous interpretations. You could see how one person > > made a mistake copying an original and watch that mistake get carried > > over as others copied that image and made their own mistakes etc. It > > was like playing a visual game of operator. I think she said her > > original lecture was longer and she had to cut out some slides. I wish > > we had been able to see the whole thing. ;-) Better get me to Atlanta, then! The Victorians lecture is now one of my regulars. I'm giving it, hmm, let's see, as part of my Boston series on Nov. 8, for those of you who are already signed up to that. Teena, the longer version has a few more examples of each of the different types of sources I covered, and an extra section on the end about Aesthetic dress and its use of "medieval" elements based on Pre-Raphaelite fantasy interpretation. Audrey wrote: > Hmm, I'd LOVE to see something like that online, so I could finally > send people to real research when I'm trying to get exactly the same > point across... I don't know how many times I tried to explain this, > only to end up sounding very NOT convincing to my own ears :-) I have not been eager to put my lectures online, for several reasons. One is copyright issues on the images; some are copyright free, but not all of them are. Another is mechanics (I haven't learned web design yet, and all my images are on slides). But the biggest reason is that I don't think I could offer more than a taste of what I can give in an hour or two in the classroom, where I can respond to the audience's level of knowledge and specific interests. I think if I tried to put up examples of some of the things I cover, without being able to fill in enough context (which would not be practical) people would come away with a partial and oversimplified understanding. And I think that can create more damage in the long run -- that's really what's happened over the years with costume scholarship, after all! I did put together a resource list for the Victorian-influence lecture, though. I'd be happy to email it to you or anyone else who wants it, or I can post it here if there's a lot of interest. Over the years, I've become increasingly interested in the historiography of costume study, as a byproduct of trying to document various items of conventional wisdom about medieval dress -- the pointy princess-hat, the handkerchief-hemmed overdress, the use of sideless surcotes or heraldic gowns frame-structured wheel farthingales. I've found more and more examples of truisms canonized in the costume literature that seem to have no clear basis in evidence from the period. So I end up trying to figure out where the assumptions came from, and what went wrong along the way. My usual m.o. is to track sources backward to see where various concepts originated -- sometimes in the 18th century, sometimes in the 19th, in some particular book that had a lot of influence and whose statements were requoted. And sometimes the original statements weren't so bad, but they were taken out of context or misstated in later works. I gave some of those examples in the lecture, in the "game of telephone" following the interpretation of a specific source image over a couple of centuries of "scholarship." In doing this, I've learned a lot about the personalities behind various costume books, and their motivations, and their approaches to research (which often aren't what we expect), all of which affected their work ... and indirectly affected our understanding of medieval dress. The more I look at this area, the more I learn. I never did get my doctorate, but if I go back to school to do it, this is the dissertation I will do -- to nail down a "family tree" of who copied what from whom in the last 200 years, and how the different lines of influences show up in modern sources. And this is why I collect awful costume books! Sometimes I can open up some book I hadn't seen before, and I recognize some weird line or detail in a redrawing, and I can tell whom the artist copied from. Teena will remember that I used one of those examples in the talk, something I just came across a couple of months ago. I was going through a box of my childhood books from my parents' basement and found a picture-book of Grimm's Fairy Tales from the 1950s. The costumes were a pastiche of secondary-source standards drawn in a 1950s aesthetic. And I spotted a really weird hat, which I recognized as a misreading of a particular 19th century redrawing, which itself was a misinterpretation of a 15th century allegorical image. Whoa! And to think I was reading that book and absorbing those images when I was five or six years old. Guess I somehow survived intact. But these images can be really pervasive, and we absorb them early on. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 15:51:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PJpqOL022092 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:51:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PJpQ76005631 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:51:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PJpOGx029684; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:51:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PJpLH0029602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:51:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9PJp4PX019906 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:51:04 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:50:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F9AD465.8070202@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:52:05 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Subject: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Folks, Robin's recent post reminded me that I've got a costume item I'm trying to track down to a real medieval source. Half-globe cauls, as seen on Princess Isabella (1292-1358) in Braveheart , and in several places in Norris. Norris cites sources for them from 1333-1350, and generally for the times of Edward II (1307-1327) and III (1327-1377, his dates). I've checked on the web for Norris' originals, but no luck there, nor on the the SCA-Milliner's list. I've looked in many of my more reliable costume books, such as Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince (years 1340-1365), but no mention of them that I have seen. There's images of women with the vertical braids, and women with round bun-like hair projections with braids around them, but no clearly-constructed caul or netted shapes. I'm wondering if they are a myth. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 16:36:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PKarOL022284 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:36:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PKaG76008187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:36:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PKaEdg020952; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:36:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PKa9dg020914 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:36:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.161.213])3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id ALZ55941; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:33:37 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <009501c39b38$15b408e0$e6754ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian influence on sources, was: KWCS photos Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:39:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I did put together a resource list for the Victorian-influence lecture, though. I'd be happy to email it to you or anyone else who wants it, or I can post it here if there's a lot of interest. I'd be really interested Robin, I've wished I'd taken notes (well if I could) since Chicago, as some of the examples were really good but I can't remember the linage too well now :) Wish you would do that doctrate ;) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 17:56:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PLuaOL022458 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 17:56:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PLtx76012438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:55:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PLtv5l026685; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:55:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PLts5l026669 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:55:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNC00K4E2903R@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:55:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:56:36 -0700 From: Kimiko Small X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031025145323.0298a008@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [h-cost] shantung silk X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all I was wondering if anyone might be able to help me. I am trying to figure out what silk shantung is like, as compared to dupionni silk. I know both are slubbed silks, but is shantung as thin and crisp as dupionni? Does it have a good drape? Is it as shiny? My project actually requires it to not be shiny, have a good drape, be firm and fairly easy to sew onto (as I will be appliqueing things onto the fabric), and have a good weight and not be too crisp. I am not sure why kind of silk would do just that. Thanks for any advice or suggestions. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 18:53:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PMrQOL022552 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:53:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PMqk76015551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:52:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PMqh5l021245; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:52:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PMqe5l021207 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:52:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA32445 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:16:30 -0500 Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:16:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] shantung silk In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031025145323.0298a008@64.87.54.245> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, Kimiko Small wrote: > I was wondering if anyone might be able to help me. I am trying to > figure out what silk shantung is like, as compared to dupionni silk. I > know both are slubbed silks, but is shantung as thin and crisp as > dupionni? Does it have a good drape? Is it as shiny? Shantung is subtly ribbed, and often is not very slubby -- definitely not like dupioni. The shantung I've worked with has a dull shine, is soft rather than crisp, and drapes well. It's a cousin to bengaline. > My project actually requires it to not be shiny, have a good drape, be > firm and fairly easy to sew onto (as I will be appliqueing things onto > the fabric), and have a good weight and not be too crisp. I am not > sure why kind of silk would do just that. A shantung would be a good choice. It does vary in weight, but even the lightest weight shantung I've seen is heavier than "China silk." I've been seeing some nice ones over at Fashion Fabrics. Try this search and you'll get a good range: http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/home/catalog_items.cfm?Query=shantung+100%25+silk Prices as low as $6/yard. There are several varieties, and you can see from the swatch close-ups that they vary in slubbiness, size of ribbing, etc. The description will give you a hint of weight. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 19:11:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PNBVOL022593 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:11:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PNAu76016487 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Oct 2003 17:10:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PNAsq3029191; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 17:10:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PNApq3029162 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 17:10:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA32535 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:34:39 -0500 Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:34:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search In-Reply-To: <3F9AD465.8070202@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia is looking for: > Half-globe cauls, as seen on Princess Isabella (1292-1358) in > Braveheart > , and in > several places in Norris. ... I've looked in many of my more reliable > costume books, such as Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince (years > 1340-1365), but no mention of them that I have seen. > > There's images of women with the vertical braids, and women with round > bun-like hair projections with braids around them, but no > clearly-constructed caul or netted shapes. I'm wondering if they are > a myth. Good question, since I've been wearing a pair to go with my fitted dress for lectures. (And I try to remember to tell people that everything from neck up is stage costume only -- to complete the look for visual purposes. I'm strictly a body garments girl, not a headdress researcher.) I know when I made mine, I copied from some images. A very cursory glance through a few books shows quite a number of pix (mostly brasses and effigies, though I also recall illuminations) that show visible network over buns at the temples -- sometimes bun-shaped (half-round) and sometimes larger cylinders or other variations. Margaret Scott's "Visual History of Costume: The 14th and 15th centuries" has a number of these. To my chagrin, though, the views she has of the small half-round temple buns show that these are most likely not pairs of small bun-covers, but larger nets that go over the whole head, covering the hair buns in the process. When I put my hair up in buns at the temple, I actually braid the hair first, and then wrap it into bun shapes. But I do like the fact that my half-globe cauls force the buns into matching lumps, as I often have trouble getting my two buns to look like they belong on the same head. Of course, if I had a servant to dress my hair, this would be a lot easier (and faster!). A full-head net over buns would solve some other problems for me, though, including the tendency of wisps of my back hair to escape. I seem to recall a written reference in the memoirs of Margery Kempe to a headdress of gold wires or "pipes," but I read it in translation. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 19:41:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PNfnOL022775 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:41:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PNfE76017841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Oct 2003 17:41:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PNf6q3011893; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 17:41:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PNf3q3011819 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 17:41:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A9A44D5007A; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:39:16 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A9A02B00184; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:39:12 -0500 Message-ID: <013001c39b51$e250aca0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:44:08 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] RE: Resources X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin, I think the mis-interpretations have happened all across earlier time periods for costume. Here and there, I have been researching Egyptian costume history and see some of these same type of repeated and spun off variations. A few years ago when I took the master's level Egyptian art class and got to see an exhibit that had a good bit of models of the working class from Ancient Egypt. They looked a lot different than what you see in books or on the History channel. It was a wonderful exhibit! WOW! A beautiful pectoral necklace was in the exhibit. Egypt and the History channel are a good joke to me. I have often wanted to make a website on Egyptian costumes but also have run into the same copyright issue that Robin mentioned. I hope one day to go to Egypt and talk with the curators to obtain permission... I want to stay a few months to do intense research. So I will have to wait until my youngest child leaves home. My husband has also been to the seminary where St. Catherine is located and it has wonderful religious icons. I would love to show these on a website. The artwork is wonderful that is shown in the tourist book my husband has. I think I need a few more lifetimes to do all the research that I want to do. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 20:24:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9Q0OmOL022832 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:24:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q0OH76020139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:24:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q0ODZs029754; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:24:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q0O9Zt029664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:24:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9Q0NpPX022331 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:23:51 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:23:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F9B1459.30603@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:24:57 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > (And I try to remember to tell people that everything from > neck up is stage costume only -- to complete the look for visual purposes. Yeah, sigh. Until we happen upon some graves with preserved headdresses, the archeological evidence for much before 1500 is close to Zilch, Zip and Zero. So we have textual evidence, and the good ol' "conjecture based on pictures, or if you're lucky, statues." Which is hardly authoritative, although the look can be achieved. > brasses and effigies, though I also recall illuminations) that show visible network > over buns at the temples -- sometimes bun-shaped (half-round) and > sometimes larger cylinders or other variations. Aha -- will start looking at the funerary stuff. I think I may have a book in the depths of the book-storage-room. The cylinder style I also like, but have found very little evidence as well. Some of you may have seen the webpage I made, where I tracked down Norris' alleged source, and it looks only about 50% like what he drew. His source is Queen Phillipa's effigy; she married Isabella's son Edward III, so the cylinder style is a generation later. Maybe! (Oh, note: my first email was Reigning years for the Eds, and birth-death for Isabella.) The hats covered in pearls that are described in translation in Fashion/Black Prince are like nothing I've ever seen pictured. Even the author isn't sure what they looked like. > show that these are most likely not pairs of small bun-covers, but larger > nets that go over the whole head, covering the hair buns in the process. Yeah -- although the pictures in Norris at least (Will have to keep trying to find the Scott book) look like the hair constructions at the side of the head with the full net over them, are not right out to the side, but more toward the back and lower. Not earmuffs. I should note that I haven't yet seen any ram's horn dressed hair either, although this isn't my concentration. (Wind hair with thin white silk fabric so it's like a rope. Coil it up like a braided rug over ears.) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 21:20:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9Q1KoOL022946 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:20:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q1KF76023228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:20:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q1KEPT023043; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:20:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q1KBPT023029 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:20:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00633 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:44:01 -0500 Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:44:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Resources In-Reply-To: <013001c39b51$e250aca0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, Penny Ladnier wrote: > I think the mis-interpretations have happened all across earlier time > periods for costume. Here and there, I have been researching Egyptian > costume history and see some of these same type of repeated and spun > off variations. I agree that most of the earlier periods have suffered in costume scholarship; my area is medieval, so that's where I've focused. I could easily look at a modern source, or even a Victorian source, on Egyptian costume and have no clue how well or badly it represents actual sources from that period. Fortunately I know something about medieval clothing ... and as I learned to recognize the disparity between what I saw in medieval sources and what I saw in costume books, I became interested in learning why the scholarship had become so badly off-kilter. However, I think medieval costume history has suffered disproportionately compared to other periods because of the confluence of several unfortunate trends. To begin with, medieval costume had an abundance of attention from 19th-century scholars and pseudo-scholars because of the simultaneous love affair the Victorians had with the "age of chivalry." (A book I recommend here -- which I think should be required reading for all medieval re-enactors -- is Marc Girourard's "The Return to Camelot: Chivalry and the English Gentleman.") The Victorians had a similar but briefer interest in certain other cultures and periods; Japanese and ancient Greek spring to mind (and possibly the Egyptians, but I haven't heard as much about that), and those fads tended to spawn popular reference books and art books focusing on those periods. But the interest in medieval was, I think, longer-lived and more intense than that of any other culture, and created an extensive market for books about medieval styles, motifs, artifacts, etc. over most of a century ... allowing plenty of time for initial errors to be repeated and magnified. It's that chain of errors that poisoned the legacy of scholarship that was brought into the 20th century. Less popular periods suffered too, but in this case the less attention the Victorians gave to a period, the better off it ended up, even if that meant there was very little work done on them in the 19th century. The other reason that medieval costume scholarship has a unique problem has to do with the nature of 20th century costume research. Most modern costume scholars, up until the last few decades, have favored later periods. That makes sense when you consider where the sources are: For 16th century and beyond, we have a sizable number of documents, fashion publications, extant garments, and much, much more available for study. Most trained fashion historians have tended to focus on these later periods; with just a few exceptions, specialization in medieval clothing continued to be the province of amateurs (in the British sense of the word) -- people working outside the academic mainstream. Complicating this further is the fact that costume history itself has not really been a recognized academic field. The Victorians also left huge footprints on such disciplines as literature and art history and economic history and social/political history, but these disciplines are well-represented in the college and university community, with departments devoted to their study, journals for publishing new findings, conferences for networking and sharing ideas, and legions of graduate students and professors doing substantive work. So over the course of the 20th century, these disciplines have managed to "shake out" most of the Victorian influence and replace it with more solid scholarship using the historical approaches and standards of the 20th century. That didn't happen nearly so much in the area of costume study, where formal academic work was limited to only a few European programs and some scattered scholars working mostly in the bounds of other fields, not within a recognized field of "costume history," and without an easy means of networking and communication. So costume history is only now experiencing the "shake-out" of Victorian scholarly influence -- and the shake-out has disproportionately favored post-medieval periods, where sources are better and more work has been done, as well as (to a lesser extent) some pre-medieval periods and non-European cultures, where the Victorians meddled less to start with. We've talked on this list before about how bad many of today's costume history textbooks are when it comes to the medieval period. What we're seeing is the result of the combination of the above trends: A publisher will hire a fashion historian to write a textbook for "survey of Western costume" classes. The fashion historian will most likely be a specialist in 17th or 18th or 19th century clothing. So when that author has to write the chapters on earlier periods, he or she will go to the published literature ... and not realize that the reliability of the available books on "medieval costume" is quite a few steps down from the sources on later or even many earlier periods. So these authors use these books in good faith, and the errors are reproduced without question. In the same way, scholars from more mainstream disciplines -- literature, art history, archaeology, etc. -- who need to find out some piece of information on medieval costume (for purposes of translating a poem or interpreting a picture or something) will go to the books on the library shelf, again not realizing that (a) costume history is not as far along as a discipline as their own field, and (b) medieval costume history is not as far along as later periods, and (c) medieval costume history suffered particularly extensively at the hands of the chivalry-crazy Victorians. They take what's in these modern-looking textbooks in good faith, and so the same stupidities get repeated in papers published in other fields, and also in popular books about, say "Life in the Middle Ages." And those are the people I deal with routinely in the academic world, where I spend a lot of time explaining that, say, those women with the big bellies aren't all pregnant, or whatever. And I can't tell you often I've run into scholars from other medieval fields who are stunned to find out how little we really know about some areas of medieval costume. Their own fields are so saturated with work that it's hard to find a new research question, and so they've assumed that everything that could be said about medieval dress was said ages ago ... they don't see it as an evolving field, but rather as something where all the known information must have been collected and cataloged ages ago, and there's nothing more to say. A few years ago I was approached by a woman doing her dissertation on clothing references in 12th century French romance. As part of her work, she knew she needed to find out something about what these garments were and how they were worn and what they were made of, so she could then go on to interpret the strongly rhetorical use of such terms as "bliaut" and "chainse." She had read the standard references, which lay out everything oh-so-neatly. But something was nagging at her, and she couldn't quite put her finger on it. So she had lunch with me. (I began by explaining "the bliaut problem.") She walked away two hours later with her head reeling at the thought that we don't actually KNOW what many of those terms refer to, and that people today are doing original work and coming up with new theories about them. She swiftly found that thanks to that one lunchtime, her knowledge of 12th century dress surpassed everything her advisors knew on that topic. And she was able to address her dissertation with a much more historically mature grounding in costume than most people who are getting their information strictly in the literature community and off the GT or 391 shelf at the library. Years later, she thanked me for that first lunch, saying, "You `problematized' costume for me. I'd had no idea how much there was still to learn." Hmm, I'm rambling now. But you can see from the above why I think this would be a good avenue for a dissertation, or a book. I don't think anyone's really looked at the *interaction* of the multiple trends affecting medieval costume scholarship, as opposed to other periods of costume scholarship that have suffered to varying degrees from Victorian mangling, paucity of evidence, and the fringe position of costume scholarship in the academic arena. --Robin (oh, if only articles were as easy to write as e-mails) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 21:35:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9Q1ZOOL022985 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:35:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q1Yq76023920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:34:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q1YmPT029187; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:34:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q1YiPU029120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:34:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9Q1YRPX022555 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:34:27 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:34:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F9B24E5.8050503@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:35:33 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Resources References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > To begin with, medieval costume had an abundance of attention from > 19th-century scholars and pseudo-scholars because of the simultaneous love > affair the Victorians had with the "age of chivalry." Do you think that the Victorians of the time thought they were doing a rigorous job at it? I often wonder if 100 years from now, people will look at the earnest attempts of current costume historians and have a similar reaction as our reaction toward the Victorians. > Complicating this further is the fact that costume history itself has not > really been a recognized academic field. Of course not! Sewing is for housewives! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 22:27:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9Q2RdOL023077 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:27:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q2R476026418 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:27:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q2R2tV020429; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-int-02.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-02.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.156]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q2QxtW020410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:27:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 16857 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2003 02:26:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO castlebooks) ([208.166.66.179]) (envelope-sender ) by smtp-int-02.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 26 Oct 2003 02:26:58 -0000 Message-ID: <00e301c39b68$a49fb560$b342a6d0@castlebooks> From: "Janet Davis" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F9B1459.30603@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:27:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The picture of Isabel Bouchier at http://www.brass-rubbing.com/#brass looks like the half-globe cauls, but the image is too small to tell for sure. Janet Davis Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http://www.medievalbookstore.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 22:30:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9Q2UYOL023091 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:30:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q2U076026583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:30:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q2TxtV021623; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:30:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q2TvtV021574 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:29:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A1396640078; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:28:09 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A136D30182; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:28:06 -0500 Message-ID: <020b01c39b69$7519c3c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F9B24E5.8050503@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Resources Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:32:52 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia, I believe the same thing will happen 100 years from now. Each generation has its own interpretation. I remember seeing photos in the Valentine Museum restoration of their historic house's interior during three different decades in the 20th Century. The house was Aaron Burr's lawyer's house called the Wickham House. The 1960s restoration of colonial was so funny!!!!! The point is, that each generation thought the interpretation was period correct. History is an art... people look at it, study, and give their impression of what happened, by what is left to research. That's why the history dept. in universities fall under the School of Arts. Think of 10 people videotaping a car wreck they have seen. Each person may have been in a different location on the scene, edit the film at different places on the tape, and make comments. Each person saw the accident differently and account it differently. As most historians say, 90% of Egypt's artifacts are still under the sand. When 90% of a civilizations history is missing, who know what will turn up in the next 100 years. And history will be re-written again. Just like part of their history was re-written on the discovery of Tut's tomb. I am working in the 1920s tonight... running across things in original publications that I have not seen published in modern costume history books about 1920s. Now go to google and type in 1920s fashion and see how many webpages account the fashion of this decade as Flappers. Sorry, not every woman was a flapper in the 1920s. So if the majority of people can not get this correct from less than 100 years ago, it would be hard to expect it from centuries ago. I am sure Robin and Drea are constantly finding all kinds of new information about their time periods. Personally, I try to stay away from the Victorians viewpoint of past history. I did re-publish an article from 1902 about the History of Ruffs BUT it was strongly recommended to the reader that this was the way people thought in 1902. Then we added a current day editorial, not written by me. The article was originally written because ruffs came into fashion again between 1900-1902. We also provide several images examples of 1500s and 1900s ruffs. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 25 22:53:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9Q2r3OL023118 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:53:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q2qW76027590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:52:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q2qVtV000251; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:52:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q2qRtW000184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:52:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9Q2qAPX023606 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:52:10 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F9B371C.6040509@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:53:16 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search References: <3F9B1459.30603@thibault.org> <00e301c39b68$a49fb560$b342a6d0@castlebooks> In-Reply-To: <00e301c39b68$a49fb560$b342a6d0@castlebooks> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Janet Davis wrote: > The picture of Isabel Bouchier at http://www.brass-rubbing.com/#brass looks > like the half-globe cauls, but the image is too small to tell for sure. I think that's the more boxy style that happened in the 15th century; different critter. But a keen site, thank you! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 02:45:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9Q7jAOL023638 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 02:45:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q7iI76008576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 01:44:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q7iEpf015623; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 01:44:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q7i9pf015592 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 01:44:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AADB4F00066; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 01:42:19 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AAD824701B0; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 01:42:16 -0600 Message-ID: <002301c39b94$a7ab6ac0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 02:42:05 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Red Cross and Fashion X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As I said earlier, I am always learning something new... well I did tonight and I thought I would share with you all. I have been working on adding new articles to our online library's A Year in Fashion: 1920, www.costumegallery.com/1920/ . The articles are from an Aug. 1920 issue of Elite Fashions Magazine. Many, many color plates, when I get time to work on them. Besides the plates, it contains some nice articles. While going over the articles again tonight, I discovered that several were submitted to the magazine by the American Red Cross. I guess, I haven't thought about the Red Cross and clothing, except in case of someone's house catching on fire. But in the 1920s, they did a good deal of work with clothing people in needy areas of the world. The article about the Russian Chairs will just about make you cry. I am new to Elite Fashions Magazine in my research but judging from the fashion plates in the magazine, it was geared toward upper middle class American women. Including the Red Cross articles in the magazine might be a way of trying to get these sector of people to donate, although donating money was not mentioned in the articles. In the list of our new articles below, I have placed (ARC) beside the article titles that were American Red Cross reports. New Articles today for A Year in Fashion: 1920: ***After Summer Fashions ***Amateur Dressmaker Articles: ---Trousseau Innovations ---Corsets and Figures ***American Girl Creates New Embroidery Fad (ARC) ***Beyond Russian Comprehension: Men Shaving (ARC) ***For Neptune's Daughter: Ladies' Bathing Suits ***Frocks (Dresses) Aglow with Color ***Hand Fans of Fashion ***Red Cross Costume: The Mode in the Balkans (ARC) ***Russian Chairs Yield Clothing (ARC) ***Summer Fashion Report ***Where Men's Hats are Made to Order (ARC) Has anyone else ever noticed the American Red Cross submitting fashion articles or reports in fashion magazines? Does anyone else have a copy of this magazine and see these reports or articles in it? My entire family enjoyed reading these ARC articles... except the one with the Russian chair. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 04:09:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9Q99nOL024097 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 04:09:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q98m76011931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 02:08:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q98kR3013655; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 02:08:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q98gR3013622 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 02:08:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-97-130.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.97.130]) 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id AMA40190; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:08:39 GMT Message-ID: <017801c39ba1$8a601b20$e6754ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F9B24E5.8050503@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Resources Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:14:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Do you think that the Victorians of the time thought they were doing a rigorous job at it? I do, I read a lot of primary source material for the Victorian period as I role play it and their conclusions tend to be logical and well thoughtout within their cultural framework. We still have a culture to influence us and this will be bound to influence us to, the theory is being aware of it we try and compensate for it. The down side though is seen in other areas where people of today find it hard to solve a problem of a hands on nature, because their culture does not do hands on in the same way. Most areas of that are less costume related (or at least the one that spring to mind). Ah here is one last week I was in Portugal, I was talking sheep with a farmer there and others farming, but we will stick to wool. These days with declining use of natural fibres, the Merino wool is so worthless that farmers no longer breed for type or even unpigmented. We were saying how quickly the qualities are being lost and in 20 years 100s of years of textile development will be gone. The concept of the differing wool types for specific uses is hard for many people to grasp now, but when it no longer exists at all how much worse will this be ? >I often wonder if 100 years from now, people will look at the earnest attempts of current costume historians and have a similar reaction as our reaction toward the Victorians.# Almost certainly I watched a program on the Zulu wars, our current culture knocks the people who took part, calls them cowards, blunderers and so on, this is a cultural perception of a largly anti war society. Where PC runs riot. There is not right to any interpretation, because there isn't a single truth, even at the time. So as culture swings our work will inevitabiliy be critisised :) Mel# This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 04:24:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9Q9OkOL031915 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 04:24:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q9OE76012222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 02:24:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q9ODR3018430; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 02:24:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9Q9O9R3018346 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 02:24:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0509.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.254]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16964BEC1B for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 10:24:04 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3F9B93D9.6090908@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 10:28:57 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search References: <3F9AD465.8070202@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On this site there is a picture of Jacoba van Beieren http://members1.chello.nl/~r.olijve1/middeleeuwen.htm Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Robin's recent post reminded me that I've got a costume item I'm > trying to track down to a real medieval source. > > Half-globe cauls, as seen on Princess Isabella (1292-1358) in > Braveheart > , and in > several places in Norris. > > Norris cites sources for them from 1333-1350, and generally for the > times of Edward II (1307-1327) and III (1327-1377, his dates). > > I've checked on the web for Norris' originals, but no luck there, nor > on the the SCA-Milliner's list. I've looked in many of my more > reliable costume books, such as Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince > (years 1340-1365), but no mention of them that I have seen. > > There's images of women with the vertical braids, and women with round > bun-like hair projections with braids around them, but no > clearly-constructed caul or netted shapes. I'm wondering if they are > a myth. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 05:45:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9QAjpOL032128 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 05:45:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QAjO76015180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 03:45:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QAjKBK010829; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 03:45:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QAjHBL010796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 03:45:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9QAixPX032110 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 05:44:59 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 05:44:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3F9BA5E2.6010408@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 05:45:54 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search References: <3F9AD465.8070202@thibault.org> <3F9B93D9.6090908@kabelfoon.nl> In-Reply-To: <3F9B93D9.6090908@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Deredere Galbraith wrote: > On this site there is a picture of Jacoba van Beieren > http://members1.chello.nl/~r.olijve1/middeleeuwen.htm It's an interesting picture, but, like the brass 100 years later than I'm looking for them. I tried a websearch to see if there was a larger version of the picture, since that later time is a favorite of mine, but didn't turn up anything yet. It looks like there's a lot of good detail in that one. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 09:06:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9QE6fOL004204 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:06:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QE6476023930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:06:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QE61a6021810; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QE5va6021770 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:05:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m98.in-tch.com [216.166.191.98]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9QDj1k18279 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 06:45:01 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3F9BD553.E915D1A1@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:08:20 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search References: <3F9AD465.8070202@thibault.org> <3F9B93D9.6090908@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dang, all I got was the main page, no picture, and I don't comprehend the language (Dutch?)at all... --sue, who hasn't yet had enough coffee to be bilingual, and then it'd be French or Latin.... Deredere Galbraith wrote: > > On this site there is a picture of Jacoba van Beieren > http://members1.chello.nl/~r.olijve1/middeleeuwen.htm > > Cynthia Virtue wrote: > > > Hi Folks, > > > > Robin's recent post reminded me that I've got a costume item I'm > > trying to track down to a real medieval source. > > > > Half-globe cauls, as seen on Princess Isabella (1292-1358) in > > Braveheart > > , and in > > several places in Norris. > > > > Norris cites sources for them from 1333-1350, and generally for the > > times of Edward II (1307-1327) and III (1327-1377, his dates). > > > > I've checked on the web for Norris' originals, but no luck there, nor > > on the the SCA-Milliner's list. I've looked in many of my more > > reliable costume books, such as Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince > > (years 1340-1365), but no mention of them that I have seen. > > > > There's images of women with the vertical braids, and women with round > > bun-like hair projections with braids around them, but no > > clearly-constructed caul or netted shapes. I'm wondering if they are > > a myth. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 09:09:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9QE9DOL004211 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:09:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QE8876024024 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:08:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QE87a6022572; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:08:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QE85a6022551 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:08:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1ADlYq-000AoV-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:08:04 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:59:01 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: [h-cost] micro-cultures, WAS KWCS photos References: <3F99E14E.3D53D7D0@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Audrey, No-one who gets to be Queen should resent anyone else's skill which enriches their kingdom. Maybe she'll ask you to make her something really nice for court. I know our SCA royalty have sometimes done that, when they're not costuming people themselves. I would say, when it comes to historical costuming rather than fantasy or theatre, the mark of someone doing it well is that they look outside of their micro-society, because they're doing proper research and looking at the historical examples, not just what's around them. Obviously when you start you take your examples from other society members, but then you strive to do better. Is there any society where the average level of costuming (especially for women, grrr) is so good you couldn't improve on it from historical documentation? And the ones that stand out above that average are the ones that look "just like the picture!" Jean Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote >> I even have a >> good time torturing myself pondering how particular micro-cultures >> (Faires, or SCA, for example) can affect one's taste in historical >> clothing. > >I went to a pretty big SCA event last weekend (well, 200 - 250 people is a >big event around here). We had royalty (our Kingdom's King, and royalty from >neighboring kingdom), which means most people took out their nicest clothes. > >Well. Let's just say I'm afraid of making the Queen jealous of my dresses, >once I get them finished. There was not a lot of eye candy (clothing, I >mean - there were some nice guys present, don't worry). I used to think >there was plenty. > >Which leads me to think: h-cost and margospatterns lists (and SCA-Garb list, >a few months ago, but it was too high traffic and I had to unsubscribe) >influence my tastes in clothing MUCH more than actual micro-societies in >which I participate physically. >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 09:44:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9QEiJOL004278 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:44:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QEhk76025347 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:43:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QEhja6005066; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:43:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QEhha6005046 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:43:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03981 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:07:35 -0600 Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:07:35 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search In-Reply-To: <3F9BA5E2.6010408@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Deredere Galbraith wrote: > > On this site there is a picture of Jacoba van Beieren > > http://members1.chello.nl/~r.olijve1/middeleeuwen.htm > > It's an interesting picture, but, like the brass 100 years later than > I'm looking for them. I tried a websearch to see if there was a larger > version of the picture, since that later time is a favorite of mine, but > didn't turn up anything yet. It looks like there's a lot of good detail > in that one. It reminds me of Van Eyck's picture of his wife, and also of his Arnolfini marriage portrait. The latter has the same nets-over-buns with an edging around the bottom of the bun; I think Van Eyck's wife does too, but I don't have her picture at hand. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 09:52:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9QEqUOL004291 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:52:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QEpa76025796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:51:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QEpZa6009053; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:51:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QEpYa6008996 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:51:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by scanmail1.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:46:50 -0700 Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id AE5A322E01FC; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:46:50 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (24-119-176-69.cpe.cableone.net [24.119.176.69]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:46:50 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Red Cross and Fashion Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 08:51:49 -0600 Message-ID: <000401c39bd0$afc964a0$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <002301c39b94$a7ab6ac0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-119-176-69.cpe.cableone.net [24.119.176.69] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny-- I haven't seen the magazine you mention, and I couldn't read the articles on your web site because I don't have a card. But I did find some dresses you might want to know about. In the collection of the State Historical Society of North Dakota, Bismarck, are two children's dresses of navy blue pin-striped cotton. They each have two machine-made labels inside: "Compliments of the American Red Cross" and "Northern Division Sample Garment." One was accompanied by a printed sheet of instructions for sewing the dress, including sketches of the front and back views. They seem to have been samples for a project that involved sewing for donation, possible to war refugees. I think they date from the WWI period.. I don't have a photo, but if you like, I could send a copy of the instruction sheet. Kim Baird -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Penny Ladnier Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 1:42 AM To: h-costume Subject: [h-cost] Red Cross and Fashion As I said earlier, I am always learning something new... well I did tonight and I thought I would share with you all. I have been working on adding new articles to our online library's A Year in Fashion: 1920, www.costumegallery.com/1920/ . The articles are from an Aug. 1920 issue of Elite Fashions Magazine. Many, many color plates, when I get time to work on them. Besides the plates, it contains some nice articles. While going over the articles again tonight, I discovered that several were submitted to the magazine by the American Red Cross. I guess, I haven't thought about the Red Cross and clothing, except in case of someone's house catching on fire. But in the 1920s, they did a good deal of work with clothing people in needy areas of the world. The article about the Russian Chairs will just about make you cry. I am new to Elite Fashions Magazine in my research but judging from the fashion plates in the magazine, it was geared toward upper middle class American women. Including the Red Cross articles in the magazine might be a way of trying to get these sector of people to donate, although donating money was not mentioned in the articles. In the list of our new articles below, I have placed (ARC) beside the article titles that were American Red Cross reports. New Articles today for A Year in Fashion: 1920: ***After Summer Fashions ***Amateur Dressmaker Articles: ---Trousseau Innovations ---Corsets and Figures ***American Girl Creates New Embroidery Fad (ARC) ***Beyond Russian Comprehension: Men Shaving (ARC) ***For Neptune's Daughter: Ladies' Bathing Suits ***Frocks (Dresses) Aglow with Color ***Hand Fans of Fashion ***Red Cross Costume: The Mode in the Balkans (ARC) ***Russian Chairs Yield Clothing (ARC) ***Summer Fashion Report ***Where Men's Hats are Made to Order (ARC) Has anyone else ever noticed the American Red Cross submitting fashion articles or reports in fashion magazines? Does anyone else have a copy of this magazine and see these reports or articles in it? My entire family enjoyed reading these ARC articles... except the one with the Russian chair. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 10:23:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9QFNVOL004440 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 10:23:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QFMs76027371 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 08:22:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QFMq5f020965; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 08:22:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QFMo5f020925 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 08:22:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0509.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.254]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80AD61A0263 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:22:44 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3F9BE7ED.8090202@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:27:41 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search References: <3F9AD465.8070202@thibault.org> <3F9B93D9.6090908@kabelfoon.nl> <3F9BD553.E915D1A1@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, You have to click on late middeleeuwen (late middleages). Sue Clemenger wrote: >Dang, all I got was the main page, no picture, and I don't comprehend >the language (Dutch?)at all... >--sue, who hasn't yet had enough coffee to be bilingual, and then it'd >be French or Latin.... > >Deredere Galbraith wrote: > > >>On this site there is a picture of Jacoba van Beieren >>http://members1.chello.nl/~r.olijve1/middeleeuwen.htm >> >>Cynthia Virtue wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hi Folks, >>> >>>Robin's recent post reminded me that I've got a costume item I'm >>>trying to track down to a real medieval source. >>> >>>Half-globe cauls, as seen on Princess Isabella (1292-1358) in >>>Braveheart >>>, and in >>>several places in Norris. >>> >>>Norris cites sources for them from 1333-1350, and generally for the >>>times of Edward II (1307-1327) and III (1327-1377, his dates). >>> >>>I've checked on the web for Norris' originals, but no luck there, nor >>>on the the SCA-Milliner's list. I've looked in many of my more >>>reliable costume books, such as Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince >>>(years 1340-1365), but no mention of them that I have seen. >>> >>>There's images of women with the vertical braids, and women with round >>>bun-like hair projections with braids around them, but no >>>clearly-constructed caul or netted shapes. I'm wondering if they are >>>a myth. >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 10:43:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9QFhGOL004551 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 10:43:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QFgY76028280 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 08:42:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QFgX5f028755; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 08:42:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-02.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-02.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.156]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QFgR5g028711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 08:42:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 24994 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2003 15:42:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO castlebooks) ([208.166.66.185]) (envelope-sender ) by smtp-int-02.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 26 Oct 2003 15:42:26 -0000 Message-ID: <002701c39bd7$c5a1e020$b942a6d0@castlebooks> From: "Janet Davis" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F9AD465.8070202@thibault.org> <3F9B93D9.6090908@kabelfoon.nl><3F9BD553.E915D1A1@in-tch.com> <3F9BE7ED.8090202@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 10:42:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you click on "Plaatjes", you'll get to a page of pictures, including an interesting woodcut of a tailor's workplace. Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http://www.medievalbookstore.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 11:50:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9QGoKOL004692 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:50:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QGnF76001448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:49:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QGnBeO025712; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:49:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9QGn8eO025655 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VClj9PXIY+lld6tUZ/72sEvBaqKyso9Tn5w==">; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 08:48:44 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JDFBTQBH; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 08:48:44 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 10:34:04 -0600 Message-ID: <20031026.103404.-576127.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-8 From: seamstrix@juno.com Subject: [h-cost] Website Update X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just to let folks know that I've updated my web site again with more pictures of Elizabethan outfits. I've added a series on getting dressed in my Spanish Ropa at the end of the Elizabethan Costume page and I've added yet another installment to 'To Dress A Queen' showing some of the updates that I've done and additions I've made since last year. http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/ Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 15:29:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9QKTaOL006821 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 15:29:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QKSu76013352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:28:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QKSqMc002549; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:28:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QKSnMc002535 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:28:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HND00KHASVWRA@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:28:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:29:37 -0800 From: Kimiko Small X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031026122635.00b083c8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Italian dress book on eBay X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO HI all, For those who are seriously interested in Italian costumes from paintings, there is a copy of _Dress in Italian Painting 1460-1500_, by Elizabeth Birbari on eBay. Normally, I would want this myself, but I am not that serious for the steep starting price of the bid. So for those who are very serious about this subject, check it out. Dress in Italian Painting, Birbari, SCA Renn http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3561500287&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1 Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 15:33:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9QKXJOL006912 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 15:33:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QKWk76013583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:32:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QKWjMc004475; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:32:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QKWfMc004446 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:32:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be10.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.16]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 712E7262B18 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:32:40 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001901c39c00$7c6a7330$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031025145323.0298a008@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] shantung silk Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:33:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Kimiko. As i remember it, Shantung silk is lighter and thinner than dupioni silk. The chrispnes is similar. What would you do with it? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 10:56 PM Subject: [h-cost] shantung silk > Hi all > > I was wondering if anyone might be able to help me. I am trying to figure > out what silk shantung is like, as compared to dupionni silk. I know both > are slubbed silks, but is shantung as thin and crisp as dupionni? Does it > have a good drape? Is it as shiny? > > My project actually requires it to not be shiny, have a good drape, be firm > and fairly easy to sew onto (as I will be appliqueing things onto the > fabric), and have a good weight and not be too crisp. I am not sure why > kind of silk would do just that. > > Thanks for any advice or suggestions. > > Kimiko > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 16:36:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9QLabOL007657 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:36:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QLZv76016924 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:35:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QLZsrO003664; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:35:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QLZqrO003601 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:35:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HND00KLSVZLRA@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:35:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:17:27 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] shantung silk In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031026131628.0297d920@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031025145323.0298a008@64.87.54.245> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Robin Thanks so much for your help in describing shantung for me. I understand bengaline. And the fabrics at Fashion Fabrics is just wonderful. Thanks for that pointer. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 16:36:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9QLatOL007663 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:36:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QLaN76016958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:36:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QLaMrO003885; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:36:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QLZqrQ003601 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:35:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HND00KLSVZLRA@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:35:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:36:39 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] shantung silk In-reply-to: <001901c39c00$7c6a7330$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031026131739.00b08330@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031025145323.0298a008@64.87.54.245> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:33 PM 10/26/2003 +0100, you wrote: >Dear Kimiko. >As i remember it, Shantung silk is lighter and thinner than dupioni silk. >The chrispnes is similar. >What would you do with it? > >Bjarne Hi Bjarne Thanks for your comments on Shantung. The shantung I am looking to possibly use is heavier than the dupionni I normally find, although I have just learned their is Chinese and Indian dupionni, and they have different weights as well. What I plan on using them for is actually my first non-historical costume piece in a very long while. Taking the info on Japanese clothing I just learned, I am going to make an art-to-wear piece, a long vest or duster, with the concept of a giant Redwood tree in the middle of a fire storm. I have had this idea for a long while, made when I was playing a LARP character who would have worn this, but I no longer play that game, yet the idea is still in my head screaming at me to make it into reality. The shantung may be used for the base duster that everything else will be worked onto, so it has to be firm enough for all that sewing. It also has to drape a bit at the sides, so something too crisp won't work. This is my first real foray into silk, so I wasn't sure what would work the best. If shantung is as Robin says it is, it will work. However, someone else off list suggested silk broadcloth, so I am checking into both. Thanks for asking, and I hope that answers the question. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 16:59:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9QLxUOL008086 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:59:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QLwt76018035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:58:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QLwsNG014484; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:58:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QLwpNG014459 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:58:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06168 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:22:44 -0600 Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:22:44 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] shantung silk In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031026131739.00b08330@64.87.54.245> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Kimiko Small wrote: > The shantung may be used for the base duster that everything else will > be worked onto, so it has to be firm enough for all that sewing. It > also has to drape a bit at the sides, so something too crisp won't > work. This is my first real foray into silk, so I wasn't sure what > would work the best. If shantung is as Robin says it is, it will work. > However, someone else off list suggested silk broadcloth, so I am > checking into both. If you can find silk broadcloth, I'd love to know where too! The shantung I've seen varies in weight. If you're ordering online, you might want to order the minimum (it's 1/8 yard at Fashion Fabrics) to see what it's like ... but some fabrics do disappear quickly. If you don't want a lot of shine, they have (or at least used to have) some silk twills at Fashion Fabrics that are a little heavier -- more like noil in that they're spun ("raw") silk, but not so rough as noil, and dull rather than shiny, very drapey. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 18:20:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9QNKTOL008748 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:20:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QNJk76022188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:19:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QNJi8d019185; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:19:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QNJf8d019150 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:19:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1ADuAe-0000EN-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 23:19:41 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:19:49 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Resources References: <3F9B24E5.8050503@thibault.org> <020b01c39b69$7519c3c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <020b01c39b69$7519c3c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It is very true that what we think we are doing so wonderfully accurately today will probably seem horribly culturally-biased in 100 or 200 years time. But one thing that I think has improved, from the 19th century to now, is the understanding that history is different - "the past is another country" if you like. I was so amused when we saw the "Parade of Kings" at the Tower of London: it's a 17th century set of models of the great kings of England through history - all of them in beautiful plate armour, and all, including William the Conqueror, with their muskets! They don't appear to have had very much concept at all of a timeline, that things 600 years ago were a lot more different than things in one's grandfather's time. I think we are learning much better to know that there are questions to be asked. Jean Penny Ladnier wrote >Cynthia, I believe the same thing will happen 100 years from now. Each >generation has its own interpretation. I remember seeing photos in the >Valentine Museum restoration of their historic house's interior during three >different decades in the 20th Century. The house was Aaron Burr's lawyer's >house called the Wickham House. The 1960s restoration of colonial was so >funny!!!!! The point is, that each generation thought the interpretation >was period correct. > >History is an art... people look at it, study, and give their impression of >what happened, by what is left to research. That's why the history dept. in >universities fall under the School of Arts. Think of 10 people videotaping >a car wreck they have seen. Each person may have been in a different >location on the scene, edit the film at different places on the tape, and >make comments. Each person saw the accident differently and account it >differently. > >As most historians say, 90% of Egypt's artifacts are still under the sand. >When 90% of a civilizations history is missing, who know what will turn up >in the next 100 years. And history will be re-written again. Just like >part of their history was re-written on the discovery of Tut's tomb. > >I am working in the 1920s tonight... running across things in original >publications that I have not seen published in modern costume history books >about 1920s. Now go to google and type in 1920s fashion and see how many >webpages account the fashion of this decade as Flappers. Sorry, not every >woman was a flapper in the 1920s. So if the majority of people can not get >this correct from less than 100 years ago, it would be hard to expect it >from centuries ago. > >I am sure Robin and Drea are constantly finding all kinds of new information >about their time periods. > >Personally, I try to stay away from the Victorians viewpoint of past >history. I did re-publish an article from 1902 about the History of Ruffs >BUT it was strongly recommended to the reader that this was the way people >thought in 1902. Then we added a current day editorial, not written by me. >The article was originally written because ruffs came into fashion again >between 1900-1902. We also provide several images examples of 1500s and >1900s ruffs. > >Penny Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom >www.costumegallery.com >www.costumeclassroom.com > > >[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners >(http://www.plugit.com)] > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 18:22:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9QNLxOL008753 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:21:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QNLP76022295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:21:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QNLP8d019976; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:21:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QNLL8d019941 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:21:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp259.pop1.net [209.102.127.94]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA18066 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 15:21:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp259.pop1.net [209.102.127.94] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <3F9C56D5.9030309@pcez.com> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 15:20:53 -0800 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Pictures and websites X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings one and all, I was working out the plans for my new webpage and was curious what the legalities were for placing pictures from books on my website. Any info would be quite helpful. Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 18:51:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9QNpmOL008814 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:51:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QNpJ76024023 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:51:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QNpB8d002916; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:51:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QNp78e002860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:51:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9QNolPX003481 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:50:47 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:50:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3F9C5E1C.3090200@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:51:56 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures and websites References: <3F9C56D5.9030309@pcez.com> In-Reply-To: <3F9C56D5.9030309@pcez.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Roscelin wrote: > I was working out the plans for my new webpage and was curious what > the legalities were for placing pictures from books on my website. Any > info would be quite helpful. The most reliable answer would come from a lawyer. However, I have found these sites to be useful when thinking about photos in books of flat art. Photos of 3D art are a different matter. http://www.panix.com/~squigle/rarin/corel2.html -- Bridgemean vs. Corel http://www.artslaw.org/DERIV.HTM -- What is a derivative? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 18:58:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9QNwWOL008836 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:58:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QNvr76024494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:57:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QNvqlC006327; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:57:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QNvnlC006305 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:57:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from karen (CPE-24-31-232-172.kc.rr.com [24.31.232.172]) h9QNvkhL011752 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:57:47 -0600 (CST) From: "Talia" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Italian dress book on eBay Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:57:01 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <5.2.1.1.0.20031026122635.00b083c8@64.87.54.245> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's my auction, and the starting price is what I paid for the book. It's in great condition, I've paged through it only once since I bought it, and it still looks like a brand new book to me. Only reason I'm selling is because I currently need the cash, and it's about 100 years later than the time period I prefer to recreate. Any questions? Feel free to email me off-list, I'll be happy to answer them if I can. Talia > HI all, > > For those who are seriously interested in Italian costumes from > paintings, > there is a copy of _Dress in Italian Painting 1460-1500_, by Elizabeth > Birbari on eBay. > > Normally, I would want this myself, but I am not that serious for > the steep > starting price of the bid. So for those who are very serious about this > subject, check it out. > Dress in Italian Painting, Birbari, SCA Renn > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3561500287&ssPa geName=ADME:B:SS:US:1 > > Kimiko > > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 20:21:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9R1KxOL008981 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:21:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9R1Hu76029124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:17:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9R1HqYZ012382; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:17:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9R1HlYa012312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:17:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-119.sonic.net [209.148.112.119]) (authenticated bits=0)h9R1HfEL019855 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:17:41 -0800 Message-ID: <3F9C72DA.7080008@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:20:26 -0800 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures and websites References: <3F9C56D5.9030309@pcez.com> In-Reply-To: <3F9C56D5.9030309@pcez.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would recommend a book by Nolo Press titled _Getting Permission: How to License & Clear Copyrighted Materials Online and Off._ Fran Roscelin wrote: > Greetings one and all, > > I was working out the plans for my new webpage and was curious what > the legalities were for placing pictures from books on my website. > Any info would be quite helpful. > > Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 21:06:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9R267OL009052 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:06:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9R25S76001866 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 19:05:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9R25Rcc003094; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 19:05:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9R25Pcc003051 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 19:05:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-67-121-114-172.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.121.114.172 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Oct 2003 02:05:23 -0000 Message-ID: <01a901c39c2e$c66ce5c0$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <84445D22-05CF-11D8-A701-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Piazza Pitti Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:05:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Althea, I've just learned that the Palazzo Mocenigo in Venice has a costume collection, although I'm not sure what eras it covers. Here's their website: http://www.museiciviciveneziani.it/frame.asp?musid=11&sezione=musei - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 26 22:05:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9R35DOL009145 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 22:05:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9R30t76004705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:00:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9R30qq5028119; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:00:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9R30oq5028051 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:00:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from alfalfapress.com (12-241-217-228.client.attbi.com [12.241.217.228]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9R30in15255 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 22:00:44 -0500 Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 19:06:38 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Piazza Pitti Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <01a901c39c2e$c66ce5c0$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> Message-Id: <94E98DA2-082A-11D8-B196-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you! Althea On Sunday, October 26, 2003, at 06:05 PM, Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > Hi Althea, > > I've just learned that the Palazzo Mocenigo in Venice has a costume > collection, although I'm not sure what eras it covers. Here's their > website: > > http://www.museiciviciveneziani.it/frame.asp?musid=11&sezione=musei > > - Kendra > http://demode.tweedlebop.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 27 01:24:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9R6OiOL009562 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 01:24:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9R6O876013931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 23:24:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9R6O490025646; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 23:24:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9R6O190025618 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 23:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp330.pop1.net [209.102.127.167]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA31335 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 22:24:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp330.pop1.net [209.102.127.167] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <3F9CB9E4.6060703@pcez.com> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 22:23:32 -0800 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Websites and copyrights X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings once again, Thank you for all your help and advice. Would you believe I found a website ran by attorneys who specialize in websites. Yep, I did a search and found them. They had an option where you can ask a question for free. So, now I am just waiting for a reply. As soon as I hear something, I will pass on the information to everyone. Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 27 02:44:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9R7iTOL025690 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 02:44:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9R7hq76017098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:43:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9R7hmcB026076; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:43:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9R7hjcB026060 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:43:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.122.247])3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id AMC08232; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:43:43 GMT Message-ID: <005001c39c5e$d9bb5e60$f77a4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F9B24E5.8050503@thibault.org> <020b01c39b69$7519c3c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Resources Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:49:28 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I was so amused when we saw the "Parade of Kings" at the Tower of London: it's a 17th century set of models of the great kings of England through history - all of them in beautiful plate armour, and all, including William the Conqueror, with their muskets! They don't appear to have had very much concept at all of a timeline, that things 600 years ago were a lot more different than things in one's grandfather's time. Nice set :) I think you have to take it in context. Would those be, for example, comparable to media, film or toys today ? In which case similar things still happen. How many times have we bemoaned costume designers of historical reproductions ? With a world timescale much shorter than the one we believe today (which could still be inaccurate) there are a lot of squashed in events ! Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 27 03:51:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9R8pcOL015645 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 03:51:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9R8oq76018921 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Oct 2003 01:50:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9R8mVoX018462; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 01:48:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9R8mSoX018358 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 01:48:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB625060076; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 02:46:26 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB5FF80272; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 02:46:23 -0600 Message-ID: <01ab01c39c66$d9b01a20$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F9CB9E4.6060703@pcez.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Websites and copyrights (long) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 03:46:44 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Roscelin, Here is some advice from someone who has been there and done that. US copyrights are protected until 1924. If the original copyright holder did not renew their copyrights, the newest date you may use is 1923. We will be stuck at this year for some time because of the Sonny Bono copyright law. You can search for the renewal date by yourself. But a lot of people have told me the best way to do this is have a lawyer do it or call the copyright holder directly. If the original copyright holder tells you that the copyright has not been renewed, get it in writing. In England, copyrights expire after 100 years after the death of the creator of work. So if you wanted to publish writings by the Queen Mum, you would have to wait until 100 years after her death. >From my research France did not have strict copyrights until they joined the European Union. The EU says 70 years after creation but if countries in the Union have longer duration laws, the countries, such as England will prevail under their own copyright laws. France is now following the 70 year rule of the EU. My sons have told me that Japan does not have copyright laws. I am not sure if that is true or not. If you want to use Japanese resources, consult a lawyer. BTW, internet copyrights are not only applied to the images but the coding for the webpages. A good way to keep up with the laws pertaining to the internet, subscribe to the Internet Case Library Newsletter. They present actual court case summaries and the outcome. It is a wonderful way to learn. You can read the case summaries at: http://www.phillipsnizer.com/internetlib.htm The law is evolving so much where websites are concerned and it is good to stay on top of it. One big thing you will notice when reading the back law cases, is that you not only have to be careful of copyrights but also trademarks. Read the Playmate of the Year case. The lawsuits over trademark infringement are unreal. Never, never in meta tags, put another business' name... so many of the cases are about this. The lawsuits will hit you in a heartbeat over this. The latest ruling for corporations is 95 years. Disney pushed hard for this ruling in Washington DC because Mickey Mouse was about to hit the previous public domain rulings. A few years ago, Disney was the first large corporation to come out on their website, a full page legal notice that they would sue if anyone violated their copyrights. Seems like it was written in stone to me. My general rule of thumb has been don't play with the big boys because they have big money and big lawyers. Another thing to really pay attention to is domain names and trademark infringement. From the voice of experience, when you enter the international playing field, you want to protect yourself. For an example, lets take the name Hershey's. Now we all now that the Hershey's business sells chocolates worldwide. Now you have a business in your town named Hershey's and you sell chocolate. Everyone in your town knows that you are not THE Hershey's in PA. Probably the Hershey's in PA had never heard of your business. Then you decide that you want to expand your business to the internet...you entered the international marketplace. Well you have entered Hershey's PA selling audience, and they come after you with a lawsuit, and 99.5% of the time they will win the suit. Because you are confusing the customers. Now lets say you have a costume shop instead of a chocolate business. You still call your business Hershey's because you are selling a different product and can trademark your business name with the govt. under the apparel industry and not food service. Another thing to remember is that logos are trademarked. If you come up with a competing product and your logo is similar to another business, you can be sued big time for infringing a trademark. The white swirl on a red background found on a Coke can is a trademarked logo, even without the word Coke on it. The white swish logo is trademarked by Nike, even if the word Nike is not used. It is an emblem that represents the company and identifies Nike. Watch the Target commercials and watch how many times you see the Target logo before you see the actual name of the company. Some ads do not even have the company name on it, just the red/white bullseye logo. This is called branding the audience. The audience become familiar with a logo and believes it represents the company. Businesses trademark two different ways, by business name and logo. Even if you say you have use a non-profit's logo, you can still get into this same type of trouble. Back to scanning images from books, I just learned this from working with the Associated Press.... Say an article runs in your local newspaper mentioning you and the reporter is from an Associated Press. You can not obtain permission to put a link on your website to the online version at your local newspaper's website. You have to obtain permission from the Associated Press to link and not your local newspaper. This is because the AP is a subscription service that loans their stories to news agencies worldwide. They are very protective of their stories and images. Now the same is true with museum images and books. There is a limitation usage agreement on the usage and number of copies between the author and museum. So if you scan the image, from lets say, Janet Arnold's book, and put it on your website. You are violating Janet Arnold's copyright. Now you can be sued by Janet Arnold's heirs, the publishing company of the book, and probably the museum that she borrowed the image from. And Janet Arnold's heirs might be sued from the museum. Not only that, as you can see by the Library Case website summaries, webhosts are also being sued for hosting webspace of a copyright/trademark violator. My best advice is to really do a lot of research on copyrights and trademarks before making a website. Then make a list of questions and talk with a copyright lawyer. OR don't research and pay a lot of money for the lawyer to do it. Please, please, please do everything you can to protect yourself. BTW, get a copyright lawyer and not a regular lawyer. A reg. lawyer may not be up on all the current copyright issues. In a courtroom, just because you didn't know the laws, doesn't excuse you from the problem and the penalties. Lastly, when you do make agreements with authors, publishers, museums, etc. obtain a copy of the agreement for your permanent records. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 27 05:01:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9RA15OL010633 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 05:01:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9R9x276021033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Oct 2003 02:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9R9x0Ai012362; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 02:59:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9R9wvAi012331 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 02:58:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABEAECA0066; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 03:56:58 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABE619101DC; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 03:56:54 -0600 Message-ID: <021801c39c70$b2b85180$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000401c39bd0$afc964a0$0201a8c0@kimathlon> Subject: Re: [h-cost]More about Red Cross and Fashion Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 04:57:13 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kim, Thank you for the information and the offer of the pattern sheet. I might want a copy later on. One article was about the children and ladies in this small village in Albania liked the Red Cross workers dresses so much that they copied the dresses and made them for themselves. Another article is about an ARC worker who was a studied painter. She went to a small village in France that was very needy after WW1. The families of the town needed income. The women were very good at embroidery, but used old patterns from their grandmothers and did not draw well. They also only used coarse linen and white floss. The artist made new patterns based on old Greek designs. She also had imported from the U.S. good quality colored floss and nice linen. After the women worked up samples, the ARC worker took the samples to Paris. The Americans at the Red Cross Embassy loved the embroidery and placed orders for their chairs, bags, etc. Then the French women were making money for their families. The report about the Russian chairs is about how the people of South Russia did not receive shipments of clothing or fabric for five years. The Red Cross said their was little hope of getting fabric in the future. The people were so desperate for fabric that they were stripping the fabric off of chairs in their homes, railway coach seats, etc. Others, not so fortunate, were making clothing from rags, burlap sacks, and newspaper. Can you imagine being in South Russia's cold winter with nothing for clothing but a newspaper! The article goes on about other method's the people used, but it is very grime. This is one of those stories a parent reads to their child when they don't eat all their food or wants five pairs of designer tennis shoes. I would love to gather more of these ARC stories and do a presentation at Costume Society about them. They are very touching. The only catch is these Elite Fashion magazines go for a lot of money on eBay and I can't afford to buy them often. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 27 05:03:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9RA3ZOL011634 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 05:03:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9RA3376021184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Oct 2003 03:03:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9RA32Ai013712; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 03:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta04bw.bigpond.com (mta04bw.bigpond.com [144.135.24.150]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9RA30Ai013681 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 03:03:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from clarke ([144.135.24.91]) by mta04bw.email.bigpond.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with SMTP id <0HNE00B13TF8J8@mta04bw.email.bigpond.com> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:37:57 +1000 (EST) Received: from cwpp-p-203-54-207-73.prem.tmns.net.au ([203.54.207.73]) by bwmam08.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2c 129/997711); Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:37:56 +0000 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 20:37:50 +1100 From: Purple Elephant Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search To: Historical Costume Message-id: <005201c39c6d$fd922e90$49cf36cb@clarke> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <3F9B1459.30603@thibault.org> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search Robin Netherton wrote: > brasses and effigies, though I also recall illuminations) that show visible network > over buns at the temples -- sometimes bun-shaped (half-round) and > sometimes larger cylinders or other variations. Aha -- will start looking at the funerary stuff. I think I may have a book in the depths of the book-storage-room. The cylinder style I also like, but have found very little evidence as well. Some of you may have seen the webpage I made, where I tracked down Norris' alleged source, and it looks only about 50% like what he drew. His source is Queen Phillipa's effigy; she married Isabella's son Edward III, so the cylinder style is a generation later. Maybe! (Oh, note: my first email was Reigning years for the Eds, and birth-death for Isabella.) She does have them, I have a picture somewhere, but they are mostly broken off. Houston (Mediaeval Costume in England and France...) has a good selection of redrawings of 14th century headdresses. And better still she cites the source for each one. > show that these are most likely not pairs of small bun-covers, but larger > nets that go over the whole head, covering the hair buns in the process. Yeah -- although the pictures in Norris at least (Will have to keep trying to find the Scott book) look like the hair constructions at the side of the head with the full net over them, are not right out to the side, but more toward the back and lower. Not earmuffs. I suspect you're on a wild goose chase, and this sort of style didn't develop properly until the early 15th century. See the statue of Jeanne de Bourbon for instance. That's one of the few I can think of that looks like hemispherical cauls per se, rather than cylindrical or conical/parabolic ones, or hair stuffed (or neatly arranged) into the sides of whole hairnets. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 27 06:29:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9RBSxOL016146 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 06:28:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9RBSR76024626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Oct 2003 04:28:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9RBSPtK009442; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 04:28:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9RBSKtL009382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 04:28:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9RBRxPX009348 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 06:28:00 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 06:27:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3F9D0187.5070701@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 06:29:11 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search References: <3F9B1459.30603@thibault.org> <005201c39c6d$fd922e90$49cf36cb@clarke> In-Reply-To: <005201c39c6d$fd922e90$49cf36cb@clarke> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Purple Elephant wrote: >> His source is Queen Phillipa's effigy; she married Isabella's son Edward >> III, so the cylinder style is a generation later. > > She does have them, I have a picture somewhere, but they are mostly > broken off. That's just one of the problems! (for the curious, my essay with pictures is at http://www.virtue.to/articles/crespinette.html ) "The effigy does not have projecting leaves on her crown, or else they rest aginst the pillow (the rest having broken), where we can't see them in this picture. The cylinders rest right at the edges of her eyes (not just in front of the ears). It doesn't look as if there is an under-cap lining her face. The bottom of the cylinders are missing. The dress does have a low horizontal neckline, but it's not as deep, and the dress appears to be laced, rather than showing the top of a furred, jeweled, sidless surcoat." > I suspect you're on a wild goose chase, and this sort of style didn't > develop properly until the early 15th century. I think it may be not a development, but an entire anachronism, the half-globes. That something showed up later that is similar is coincidence, probably. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 27 11:14:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9RGEQOL017778 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:14:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9RGDM76012536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:13:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9RGDCec008991; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:13:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9RGD9ec008936 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:13:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bebb.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.187]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B87EB5EE134 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:13:02 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <006801c39ca5$7204a5f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031026.103404.-576127.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Website Update Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:14:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Karen. Oh i loved to see your pages. And that cranberry coloured Elizabethan is lovely, lovely, and and and Then there is your friend Ryan Barret, it is always a joy to look at him :-) (sorry) Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 5:34 PM Subject: [h-cost] Website Update > Just to let folks know that I've updated my web site again with more > pictures of Elizabethan outfits. I've added a series on getting dressed > in my Spanish Ropa at the end of the Elizabethan Costume page and I've > added yet another installment to 'To Dress A Queen' showing some of the > updates that I've done and additions I've made since last year. > > http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/ > > > Karen > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 27 14:16:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9RJG2OL018284 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 14:16:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9RJ8G76001330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:08:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9RJ8Ddv004661; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:08:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from orval.sprint.ca (orval.sprint.ca [209.5.194.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9RJ8Adv004610 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:08:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooie ([149.99.67.11]) by orval.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031027190808.THGM1080.orval.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 14:08:08 -0500 Message-ID: <012801c39cbd$8f19f1a0$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Resources Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 14:07:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" >much snippage< 'The Victorians had a similar but briefer interest in certain other cultures and periods; Japanese and ancient Greek spring to mind (and possibly the Egyptians, but I haven't heard as much about that), and those fads tended to spawn popular reference books and art books focusing on those periods.' > End snippage < This is a big problem for anyone trying to accurately recreate Medieval Near and Middle Eastern clothing. Reference material written in English that isn't Victorian is mighty slim, and most people end up copying the Orientalist paintings. Most people do not realize, at least to start with, how heavily romanticised the paintings were, and how most of the 'harem' paintings made in the late 18 early 1900's were completely the imagination of the painters. Outsiders never would have been allowed anywhere near the women's quarters, leaving the painters of the time with no recourse but to make things up as they went along. This makes for some very lovely and rather scandalous paintings, but nothing terribly useful for a costumer to use. :-) Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 27 16:40:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9RLe3OL019553 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:40:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9RLd476017108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Oct 2003 14:39:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9RLcxLq029568; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 14:38:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9RLcsLq029462 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 14:38:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.164] (pm5-164.eos.net [205.133.149.164]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9RLcpQY026447 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:38:51 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:31:09 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200310270854.h9R8sioY020698@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: history as a timeline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Most people today don't have a very good idea of history as a timeline. Someone on this list once posted that the general public's idea of history was a bunch of people in funny clothes! In the middle ages, people saw history as line, with Creation at one end and the Second Coming at the other. Today we see history as a longer line, but few people (IMHO) have a clear idea of what's on it and where. Clothing is only the beginning of what people don't know! Last year I took a Masters level class in the history of the Catholic Church. One of the men in my class, a lawyer, was incensed by to learn that St. Augustine had decided capital punishment shouldn't be prohibited for heretics. Despite his own advanced education, he could not make any distinction between someone in the 400s, whose country was besieged by barbarians from without and in constant turmoil from within because of violent religious battles, and himself, living today in a plural society with many alternatives to the death penalty. I mean, this man was seriously upset, practically yelling at the teacher. The class was a real eye-opener for me, because so many people had similar troubles. Even with very good texts, they could not make the leap to other people's widely different cultures and circumstances. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 02:18:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9S7IYOL027918 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 02:18:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9S7Cr76024926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 00:12:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9S7CelB029984; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 00:12:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9S7CblB029964 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 00:12:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp476.pop1.net [209.102.126.76]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA12923 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 23:12:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp476.pop1.net [209.102.126.76] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <3F9E16C9.2070305@pcez.com> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 23:12:09 -0800 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Fabric designers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I was curious if there are any fabric designers on-line here on the H-Costume list. I have a couple of questions for someone who is a professional fabric designer. Thanks. Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 05:42:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SAgROL030484 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 05:42:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SAfm76001971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:41:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SAfhnI001882; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:41:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta02ps.bigpond.com (mta02ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.156]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SAfenI001835 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:41:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from clarke ([144.135.25.87]) by mta02ps.email.bigpond.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with SMTP id <0HNG00AWOQX5P0@mta02ps.email.bigpond.com> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:39:06 +1000 (EST) Received: from 144.139.221.181 ([144.139.221.181]) by psmam07.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2d 119/7343418); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:39:00 +0000 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:38:53 +1100 From: Purple Elephant Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search To: Historical Costume Message-id: <002701c39d3f$b2601e50$b5dd8b90@clarke> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <3F9B1459.30603@thibault.org> <005201c39c6d$fd922e90$49cf36cb@clarke> <3F9D0187.5070701@thibault.org> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search Purple Elephant wrote: >> His source is Queen Phillipa's effigy; she married Isabella's son Edward >> III, so the cylinder style is a generation later. > > She does have them, I have a picture somewhere, but they are mostly > broken off. That's just one of the problems! (for the curious, my essay with pictures is at http://www.virtue.to/articles/crespinette.html ) "The effigy does not have projecting leaves on her crown, or else they rest aginst the pillow (the rest having broken), where we can't see them in this picture. The cylinders rest right at the edges of her eyes (not just in front of the ears). It doesn't look as if there is an under-cap lining her face. The bottom of the cylinders are missing. The dress does have a low horizontal neckline, but it's not as deep, and the dress appears to be laced, rather than showing the top of a furred, jeweled, sidless surcoat." Err, yes, from memory Norris' drawing of Phillipa looks nothing like her. Hers is the effigy where you go 'wow, she actually looks like a plump middle aged woman wearing a kirtle'. As opposed to the sort of stylised image of ideal youth you usually see in them. > I suspect you're on a wild goose chase, and this sort of style didn't > develop properly until the early 15th century. I think it may be not a development, but an entire anachronism, the half-globes. That something showed up later that is similar is coincidence, probably. It may be another of those 'I think it looks like...' errors. One of the pictures in Houston is of a young woman with two buns, based on a wooden sculpture. The hair in the buns is drawn as a series of squiggly lines that could very much be mistaken for cauls if you didn't read the text. I don't know how closely it resembles the sculpture, but it wouldn't surprise me if stylised hair had been misinterpreted. Claire -- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 09:16:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SEGbOL031677 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:16:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SEFq76011721 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 07:15:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SEFm7D010508; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 07:15:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13404.mail.yahoo.com (web13404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9SEFj7D010478 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 07:15:46 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031028141543.70512.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.170] by web13404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 06:15:43 PST Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 06:15:43 -0800 (PST) From: Mara Riley To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] triple velvet? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Looking at this -- http://www.denverfabrics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=001&Category_Code=TripVel What is triple velvet? -- Mara __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 10:21:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SFLbOL032296 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:21:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SFKn76017237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:20:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SFKiQS020930; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:20:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SFKgQS020844 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:20:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19677 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:44:40 -0600 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:44:40 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search In-Reply-To: <002701c39d3f$b2601e50$b5dd8b90@clarke> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia, writing about Philippa's effigy: > That's just one of the problems! (for the curious, my essay with > pictures is at > http://www.virtue.to/articles/crespinette.html ) > > "The effigy does not have projecting leaves on her crown, or else they > rest aginst the pillow (the rest having broken), where we can't see them > in this picture. The cylinders rest right at the edges of her eyes (not > just in front of the ears). It doesn't look as if there is an under-cap > lining her face. The bottom of the cylinders are missing. The dress > does have a low horizontal neckline, but it's not as deep, and the dress > appears to be laced, rather than showing the top of a furred, jeweled, > sidless surcoat." Then I think this bit is from Claire: > Err, yes, from memory Norris' drawing of Phillipa looks nothing like > her. Hers is the effigy where you go 'wow, she actually looks like > a plump middle aged woman wearing a kirtle'. As opposed to the > sort of stylised image of ideal youth you usually see in them. This confusion didn't originate with Norris. I've seen a couple of 19th c. sources that present Philippa as being dressed in a sideless surcote; Norris almost certainly copied from one of them, not from the original statue. For that matter, Victoria's own costume for her Plantagenet Ball in 1842 was a sideless surcote of that type, and she wrote that her designer (the leading costume historian of the 19th century) copied the design from Philippa's effigy. The effigy itself is in Westminster, so would have been readily available and recognizable. I have wondered whether there is another effigy involved, perhaps moved or lost or re-attributed since then, or if there's a severe restoration issue. There are a couple of 19th c. books on effigies I've been intending to track down to determine what they were seeing and calling "Philippa's" effigy at the time, but I haven't gotten around to it ... next time I travel to the right rare book room I'll do that. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 10:37:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SFbCOL032361 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:37:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SFaX76018643 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:36:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SFaVQS003732; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:36:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SFaSQT003615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:36:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9SFa4PX017888 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:36:04 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:36:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3F9E8D2D.3010405@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:37:17 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search (crespinette digression) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Cynthia, writing about Philippa's effigy: >>The cylinders rest right at the edges of her eyes (not >>just in front of the ears). I'd meant to mention this further. I've learnt to deal with having my hearing impaired by some of these creations, but being blinkered as well might just drive me batty. The effigy cylinders are closer to the eyes than the narrowest sunbonnet I've ever seen. In addition, if you looked at a woman wearing them from directly to the side, you wouldn't be able to see her face! I suppose they'd've been great for my grandmother, who had an ugly nose...! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 11:19:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SGJCOL032704 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:19:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SGIO76022892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:18:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SGINqq009594; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:18:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SGIJqq009558 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:18:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id KAA27954 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:18:17 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search (crespinette digression) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:18:17 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3F9E8D2D.3010405@thibault.org> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd meant to mention this further. I've learnt to deal with having my hearing impaired by some of these creations, but being blinkered as well might just drive me batty. The effigy cylinders are closer to the eyes than the narrowest sunbonnet I've ever seen. In addition, if you looked at a woman wearing them from directly to the side, you wouldn't be able to see her face! I suppose they'd've been great for my grandmother, who had an ugly nose...! The infamous English gable headdress also covers the ears--I find the elaborate head and hair coverings of the European Middle Ages and early Renaissance fascinating--the power of the Catholic Church then at its height and all the directives and preachings about married women keeping their hair covered turning into elaborate headdresses for those that could afford them earning further directives and preachings against said headdresses. Perhaps the original wearer of the "cylinder" headdress wanted the attention and perhaps a degree of distance/ privacy(not being to hear as well or see off to the side)Or she may have been deaf and such a fashion would force people to address her to her face. In addition to all those sermons and whatever for keeping one's hair covered if female and married or widowed, elaborate headdresses were maybe also the equivalent of today's hairstyling mania. We torture our hair into all kinds of colors and styles with a number of choices of products that would bewilder the most fashionable full-head covering headdress wearers of the past. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 12:17:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SHHBOL000769 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:17:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SHEr76028675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:14:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SHEpoh001929; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:14:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.224]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SHEjoh001830 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:14:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from Martha (24-90-83-116.nyc.rr.com [24.90.83.116]) with SMTP id h9SHEhgu029570 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:14:44 -0500 (EST) From: "Martha Kelly" To: "h-costume" Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:14:45 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Civil War footgear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had a planning meeting at Simplicity yesterday for photographing the mid 19th century men’s wear. They agreed with me that every accessory has to be perfect. Shoes are a new issue for us. We’ve been careful not to show the women’s feet. I’m going to need several styles of men’s shoes and boots and in several sizes. Actually, I’d prefer that they be used rather than new, so they’ll look real. We’ll want to rent them, since it’s a one-day shoot. I have a couple of questions. Does anybody know what’s happened to the costumes from “On Cold Mountain”? I know Ann Roth did it, so they’re probably excellent. Or, are there any suggestions of other places I should inquire. Thanks. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 13:07:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SI7JOL001417 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:07:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SI6Q76004197 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:06:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SI6HSs019392; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:06:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SI6DSs019286 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:06:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id MAA06707 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:06:09 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Civil War footgear Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:06:09 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How about from the movie: Gods and Generals? Also movie that has done the Civil War recently, cable TV included. Turner Network TV has been good for that, also Western post-Civil War movies--"Open Range" for instance. Neglected areas of historic costuming are especially the bustle era--esp the mid 1880's--could be marketed as "Does this make my butt look big...enough?"--for women's historical costuming with accurate patterns. Also the "reform dress" era of 1880's-early 1900's. Tea dresses, and the 1913-1923 decade. Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Martha Kelly Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 11:15 AM To: h-costume Subject: [h-cost] Civil War footgear I had a planning meeting at Simplicity yesterday for photographing the mid 19th century men’s wear. They agreed with me that every accessory has to be perfect. Shoes are a new issue for us. We’ve been careful not to show the women’s feet. I’m going to need several styles of men’s shoes and boots and in several sizes. Actually, I’d prefer that they be used rather than new, so they’ll look real. We’ll want to rent them, since it’s a one-day shoot. I have a couple of questions. Does anybody know what’s happened to the costumes from “On Cold Mountain”? I know Ann Roth did it, so they’re probably excellent. Or, are there any suggestions of other places I should inquire. Thanks. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 13:20:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SIKBOL001452 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:20:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SIIb76005499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:18:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SIIWSs000813; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:18:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SIIMSs000529 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:18:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0509.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.254]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78555BEB88 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:18:16 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3F9EB413.7010706@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:23:15 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is the closest I could find. Lutrell Psalter date sometime between 1320-1340. British Library Age of Chivalry Art and Society in Late Medieval England, edited Nigel Saul. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Headdress/Headdress.html Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 13:27:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SIRiOL001469 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:27:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SIPw76006222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:25:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SIPuSs007636; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:25:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SIPqSs007510 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:25:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 347D8425CE for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:30:14 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3F9EB51D.6000908@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:27:41 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's another question for you experienced dyers. A local store has put the spring linen on the clearance table. I can get hot pink or a pale lime green for a ridiculous amount per yard. They are actually linen-cotton blends. Can I overdye these a darker color? Or is there something on the fabric to 'finish' it that would prevent successful results? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 13:30:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SIUPOL001487 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:30:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SITX76006593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:29:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SITWSs011040; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:29:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SITTSs010911 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:29:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.19d.1c39ac94 (15699) for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:28:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-m08.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.136]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (v97.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID51-3d533f9eb54133d; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:28:17 -0500 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:28:17 -0500 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Resources MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <27897AC4.5BC33A95.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9SITTSs010911 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/25/2003 9:35:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cvirtue+dated+1082684067.6160c1@thibault.org writes: > Robin Netherton wrote:> > To begin with, medieval costume had an abundance of attention from> > 19th-century scholars and pseudo-scholars because of the simultaneous love> > affair the Victorians had with the "age of chivalry."> > Do you think that the Victorians of the time thought they were doing a> rigorous job at it?> > I often wonder if 100 years from now, people will look at the earnest> attempts of current costume historians and have a similar > reaction as> our reaction toward the Victorians. I have often had the same thoughts. I know that I am doing the best I can. Sometimes I am right. Sometimes I might be right. Sometimes I am all out wrong. But I am doing the best with what I have got, and I think that is the same with the Victorians. Building upon that, we also have to take into account we have one hell of a distortion machine that is just as powerful as (if not more so) than the Victorians and their ideology. That would be the film industry. Think of the movies of the 30's and how their costumes look. Now take a movie of the same era made in the 60's and again in the 90's... They rarely look the same. How many of us have seen something in a film, and then tried to document it? Or made a costume because the cotehardie (or Edwardian Tea Dress, or Bustle Gown...) in this movie looked similar to what we remembered from our research, but we didn't go back to check what was wrong? I am sure we have all done it. And we all want to believe we are above changing things to suit our modern sensibilities, yet I would be willing to bet to some extent every single one of us has made concessions based on conjectures, health, knowledge or just plain vanity. Whenever I teach a class about historical clothing, I point out two things and tell a story. 1st) No matter how much I read, study statues and artwork, I will never know everything, even if I go back in time. 2nd) I can't judge yesterday by today's standards. 3rd) I tell the story of the Dodo. Summed up: I lived in Oxford for 6 months. The LAST Dodo resides in Oxford at the Museum of Science & Technology. I loved the building and used to go and just sit in it for an hour at a time. I really got to know the Dodo. He (I think it is a he) is stuffed. I can describe every little aspect about him. But no matter how well I can describe the last Dodo, it doesn't mean I can tell you about Dodos. Maybe he was a oddity. Maybe he was a runt... I don't know. I just know he was the last Dodo. Costuming is the same thing... I can tell you all about what I have seen, but I haven't seen everything that still exists, and even if I had it isn't everything that existed. I tak! e what I can get and I make the best of it. KitIf you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 14:09:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SJ9mOL001630 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:09:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJ8r76011053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:08:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJ8mvO017625; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:08:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav24.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJ8bvO017274 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:08:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:08:31 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav24.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:08:31 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F9EB51D.6000908@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 14:07:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Oct 2003 19:08:31.0916 (UTC) FILETIME=[E0CC26C0:01C39D86] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Here's another question for you experienced dyers. A local store has put > the spring linen on the clearance table. I can get hot pink or a pale > lime green for a ridiculous amount per yard. They are actually > linen-cotton blends. > > Can I overdye these a darker color? Or is there something on the fabric > to 'finish' it that would prevent successful results? If I follow my own experience, as long as you wash them first, you will be fine. Linen and cotton are easy to dye (linen is hard to make colorfast, but easy to dye). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 14:14:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SJEsOL001638 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:14:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJE576011709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:14:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJE4vO022538; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:14:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJE0vO022409 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:14:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:13:52 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:13:37 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Re: overdyeing commercial line X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's another question for you experienced dyers. A local store has put the spring linen on the clearance table. I can get hot pink or a pale lime green for a ridiculous amount per yard. They are actually linen-cotton blends. Can I overdye these a darker color? Or is there something on the fabric to 'finish' it that would prevent successful results? Dawn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hancock's :)? If so, I just used the dark green Rit over the bright lime and got a nice, mellow warm mint color. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 14:21:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SJLtOL001660 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:21:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJJr76012194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:19:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJJpvO027744; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:19:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJJlvP027603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:19:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9SJJOPX018836 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:19:24 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:19:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3F9EC185.3060700@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:20:37 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search References: <3F9EB413.7010706@kabelfoon.nl> In-Reply-To: <3F9EB413.7010706@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Lutrell Psalter date sometime between 1320-1340. British Library > Age of Chivalry Art and Society in Late Medieval England, edited Nigel Saul. > > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Headdress/Headdress.html Right! And that's the vertical braid style, with added oddity of a wimple that appears to fasten underneath the braids, truly peculiar! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 14:24:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SJODOL001663 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:24:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJNW76012488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:23:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJNWvO001557; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:23:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJNKvP001267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:23:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9SJMuPX018906 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:22:56 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:22:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3F9EC259.1090608@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:24:09 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen References: <3F9EB51D.6000908@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <3F9EB51D.6000908@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn wrote: > Can I overdye these a darker color? Or is there something on the fabric > to 'finish' it that would prevent successful results? I think you'll be fine if you wash it, unless it has a "wrinkle resistant" finish, which is more-or-less an applied plastic. That won't come out with washing. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 14:28:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SJSPOL001676 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:28:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJRE76012845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:27:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJRDvO004914; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:27:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJR9vO004795 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:27:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C41B3425CE for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:31:30 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3F9EC379.5010207@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:28:57 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen References: <3F9EB51D.6000908@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > If I follow my own experience, as long as you wash them first, you will be > fine. Linen and cotton are easy to dye (linen is hard to make colorfast, but > easy to dye). Ahhhh, so am I likely to end up with dark red fabric with hot pink streaks in it after I wash it the first time? Or is this a more subtle loss of color? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 14:30:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SJU0OL001682 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:30:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJTB76013042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:29:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJTBvO006686; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:29:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJT8vO006626 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:29:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNH00E4ZFGI4I@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:29:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:25:10 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen In-reply-to: <3F9EB51D.6000908@reddawn.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031028111810.029a8b68@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:27 PM 10/28/2003 -0600, you wrote: >Here's another question for you experienced dyers. A local store has put >the spring linen on the clearance table. I can get hot pink or a pale lime >green for a ridiculous amount per yard. They are actually linen-cotton blends. > >Can I overdye these a darker color? Or is there something on the fabric to >'finish' it that would prevent successful results? > > > >Dawn Hi Dawn I have overdyed a few things with Ritz dyes, although I am not an expert in any way. I have mostly dyed cotton or wool, but linen shouldn't be too much different than cotton, as they are both plant based fibers. Most likely there is a finish on the linen blend, to prevent wrinkles while on the bolt. Make sure they don't have that shiny finish tho, as that might be a chemical finish and won't come off. And make sure they don't have a poly blend in them as well. You can do a burn test to check that. Otherwise, just give them a good washing with warm to hot water, at least twice. That will of course shrink the material a bit. But that should also remove any sizing on the fabric. I would personally let them soak in the warm to hot water between agitations, but that's me. Once washed up, go ahead with your dye to overdye them. Depending on the color you want to dye them, you may have to add an opposite color to mute the hot pink, unless you want it red or purple. You may want to test a swatch on the coloring if you want something specific. Otherwise, have fun with the dye. Good luck! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 14:40:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SJeTOL001722 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:40:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJTL76013082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:29:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJTKvO006839; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:29:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJT8vQ006626 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:29:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNH00E4ZFGI4I@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:29:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:28:27 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Civil War footgear In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031028112625.029a0578@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:14 PM 10/28/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Or, are there any suggestions of other places I should >inquire. I am not sure where you are located. I do know Western Costumes in the Los Angeles area rents shoes, and they have a whole wall of them for different time periods. They rent to the movie industry. I visited their warehouse several years ago for Costume College, and boy was that an eye opening experience. Good luck! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 14:45:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SJjQOL001742 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:45:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJia76014618 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:44:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJiXvO019682; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:44:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SJiTvO019640 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:44:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id h9SJiTwO025588 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:44:29 -0500 Message-Id: <200310281944.h9SJiTwO025588@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:40:15 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn said: > Ahhhh, so am I likely to end up with dark red fabric with hot pink > streaks in it after I wash it the first time? Or is this a more subtle > loss of color? Not streaky unless you cramp it up too much in the dyepot and it does not dye easily. I've used Rit color remover on wool with some success. I bought a bright blue wool on sale, intending to dye it dark blue for a uniform coat. The dark dye did not take at all. I used the due remover on it, and the resulting color was a bright yellow. But enough due was removed that I was able to dye it the dark blue I wanted. I don't know how much this will help with dyeing linen. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 15:09:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SK9uOL002519 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:09:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SK9176017116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:09:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SK8wf2012273; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:08:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav59.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SK8qf2012068 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:08:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:08:47 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav59.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:08:47 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F9EB51D.6000908@reddawn.net> <3F9EC379.5010207@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:07:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Oct 2003 20:08:47.0430 (UTC) FILETIME=[4BCFCE60:01C39D8F] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > If I follow my own experience, as long as you wash them first, you will be > > fine. Linen and cotton are easy to dye (linen is hard to make colorfast, but > > easy to dye). > > Ahhhh, so am I likely to end up with dark red fabric with hot pink > streaks in it after I wash it the first time? Or is this a more subtle > loss of color? No, no, don't worry, nothing that drastic! It will fade the way cotton does, just slightly faster. Nothing to be worried about, I think. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 15:19:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SKJMOL002544 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:19:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SKII76018144 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:18:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SKIEf2020903; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:18:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [66.136.30.169]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SKI9f2020844 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:18:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from escom.antek [192.168.0.151] by web.antekhou.com (SMTPD32-8.00) id AF002A9013A; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:18:08 -0600 Received: From PACws22 ([65.45.18.250]) by escom.antek (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 1067372287445; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:18:07 -0600 Message-ID: <004001c39d90$1aa3cde0$0f64a8c0@algx> From: "Cyn Bucheger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200310281944.h9SJiTwO025588@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:14:34 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've had some blueish-lavender colored linen that I used RIT color remover and bleach (different loads) to get to a off white, that looks white until you put it with something that is white. I've also dyed linen darker colors over what ever they were to start with. I just made sure to use wash first, use as hot of water as possible and do twice as long agitating as reccomended. I am typically using my washer, and RIT dyes, since they are readily available and don't cost too much. To get the extra time in the washer, I reset several times, checking to be sure the fabric hasn't knotted up too much as you go along. Cyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 15:19:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SKJtOL002549 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:19:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SKIk76018203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:18:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SKIjf2021464; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:18:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SKIif2021361 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:18:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 372297 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:18:37 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:23:23 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I haven't dyed in a long time. If I was dyeing some linen also, would it help to run a second rinse after dyeing with Synthrapol in it? LynnD On 10/27/03 12:07 PM, "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" wrote: >>> If I follow my own experience, as long as you wash them first, you will > be >>> fine. Linen and cotton are easy to dye (linen is hard to make colorfast, > but >>> easy to dye). >> >> Ahhhh, so am I likely to end up with dark red fabric with hot pink >> streaks in it after I wash it the first time? Or is this a more subtle >> loss of color? > > No, no, don't worry, nothing that drastic! It will fade the way cotton does, > just slightly faster. Nothing to be worried about, I think. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 15:28:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SKSuOL002569 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:28:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SKQZ76019044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:26:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SKQUf2028666; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:26:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SKQQf2028610 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:26:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from waldorf.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.20]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AEaQ6-0000mb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:26:26 -0800 Message-ID: <12495664.1067372786300.JavaMail.root@waldorf.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:26:11 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Christine Krebs-Bonder To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Subject: [h-cost] Request for resources X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Help! My local library only seems to have those awful victorian-based costume reference books on medieval and renassance clothing. I was complaining to the librarian and she said that if I could give her a list of the kind of stuff that I really wanted she would give the list to the library board when they decide what non-fiction books to get for next year. So, ladies and gentlemen can you take a couple of minutes to email me off-list wittheh name and/or author of historical costuming refernces that a library ought to have? Many thanks! Christine in Dayton, OH >^..^< >^..^< proudly owned by cats since 1993. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 15:33:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SKX8OL002585 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:33:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SKVh76019510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:31:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SKVbf2003279; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:31:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SKVXf2003198 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:31:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.153] (pm5-153.eos.net [205.133.149.153]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SKVUQY020533 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:31:30 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:23:54 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200310261903.h9QJ3DlA023409@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: modern distortions, and Shogun X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That dodo story was great! I love to look at old costume movies and see what parts of the clothes, hair, or makeup are so much a product of the time they were made. Those are the things you don't notice at the time -- because that's just how you think people look! Only later, when the styles have changed to new ones that seem natural, do you see the anachronisms. Right now I am in the middle of watching "Shogun" (only $52 on DVD at Sam's Club, though the videos are still more than $200). I think it has really held up well, though I'll have to get to the Hollywood-ized end to be sure. I was in high school when the miniseries came out, and I remember watching it breathlessly, the book in my lap because I couldn't wait to find out what happened! (note to the curious: the book is still better) Because I don't know anything about 17th-century Japan, it looks fabulous to me. Richard Chamberlain plays the Pilot, and though his hair and beard look pretty funny, the only thing that stands out as wrong about his Western clothes (quickly switched to Japanese ones) is that despite two years of a grueling voyage and many indignities in Japan, they still look clean and new! But I would rather see clothes that look new than the new fashion for dirty rags in historical movies. Ditto for bright colors -- the cinematography is smashing -- instead of sepia filters. UGH! I hope the whole past wasn't drab! Also, my husband and I noted that the characters are nicely rounded. All of them, even the evil Portuguise captain of the Black Ship (who looks straight out of a painting) have both good and bad aspects. Everybody is mad at everyone else -- the Franciscans hate the Jesuits, who hate the Dutch and English heretics, who hate all the Catholics, who all (except the Jesuits) despise the Japanese, who hate everyone. If it were made today, there would be only good guys and bad guys. The Jesuits priests have funny hair, but I like seeing their cassocks in Buddhist monk orange. Anyway, I am enjoying it. I remember at the time a lot of fuss was made about the authenticity of it, and I have a book on the making of the miniseries packed away somewhere. Anyone have any comments? Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 15:37:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SKbtOL002610 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:37:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SKau76020242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:36:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SKatf2008242; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:36:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SKaof2008161 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:36:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AEaaA-0001Bz-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:36:50 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:36:40 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: history as a timeline References: <200310270854.h9R8sioY020698@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I find that I have a timeline of costumes, that I can picture, and I have to hang events on that. So, I can put composers in the right order by the style of wig, or authors by the clothes their characters wear. Do other people do that? or am I just strange? Jean Gail & Scott Finke wrote > > >Most people today don't have a very good idea of history as a timeline. >Someone on this list once posted that the general public's idea of history >was a bunch of people in funny clothes! > >In the middle ages, people saw history as line, with Creation at one end and >the Second Coming at the other. Today we see history as a longer line, but >few people (IMHO) have a clear idea of what's on it and where. Clothing is >only the beginning of what people don't know! > >Last year I took a Masters level class in the history of the Catholic >Church. One of the men in my class, a lawyer, was incensed by to learn that >St. Augustine had decided capital punishment shouldn't be prohibited for >heretics. Despite his own advanced education, he could not make any >distinction between someone in the 400s, whose country was besieged by >barbarians from without and in constant turmoil from within because of >violent religious battles, and himself, living today in a plural society >with many alternatives to the death penalty. I mean, this man was seriously >upset, practically yelling at the teacher. > >The class was a real eye-opener for me, because so many people had similar >troubles. Even with very good texts, they could not make the leap to other >people's widely different cultures and circumstances. > >Gail Finke > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 15:38:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SKcBOL002613 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:38:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SKb776020273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:37:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SKb6f2008403; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:37:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SKaof2008160 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:36:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AEaa9-0001By-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:36:50 +0000 Message-ID: <$ga94HCOEtn$IwxI@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:26:54 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search References: <3F9B1459.30603@thibault.org> <005201c39c6d$fd922e90$49cf36cb@clarke> <3F9D0187.5070701@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <3F9D0187.5070701@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote >Purple Elephant wrote: >>> His source is Queen Phillipa's effigy; she married Isabella's son Edward >>> III, so the cylinder style is a generation later. >> She does have them, I have a picture somewhere, but they are mostly >> broken off. > >That's just one of the problems! (for the curious, my essay with >pictures is at >http://www.virtue.to/articles/crespinette.html ) > >"The effigy does not have projecting leaves on her crown, or else they >rest aginst the pillow (the rest having broken), where we can't see them >in this picture. The cylinders rest right at the edges of her eyes (not >just in front of the ears). It doesn't look as if there is an under-cap >lining her face. The bottom of the cylinders are missing. The dress >does have a low horizontal neckline, but it's not as deep, and the dress >appears to be laced, rather than showing the top of a furred, jeweled, >sidless surcoat." > >> I suspect you're on a wild goose chase, and this sort of style didn't >> develop properly until the early 15th century. > >I think it may be not a development, but an entire anachronism, the >half-globes. That something showed up later that is similar is >coincidence, probably. > It's fascinating, isn't it - there are a whole range of different ways of arranging hair in nets on either side of your head, in blobs or tubes or horns or rectangles - and a modern designer manages to pick the one version that never actually existed! Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 15:40:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SKeVOL002625 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:40:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SKdO76020593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:39:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SKdNf2010521; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:39:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SKdJf2010378 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:39:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 372373 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:39:14 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:44:00 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Request for resources From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <12495664.1067372786300.JavaMail.root@waldorf.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wait! Not just off-list. I'm sure if we all got together with a really good list and requested it of our various libraries, we could really improve the quality of the libraries (and therefore ILL) all over the country or, dare I say it?, the world. Muah-ha-ha. LynnD On 10/28/03 12:26 PM, "Christine Krebs-Bonder" wrote: > Help! My local library only seems to have those awful victorian-based costume > reference books on medieval and renassance clothing. I was complaining to the > librarian and she said that if I could give her a list of the kind of stuff > that I really wanted she would give the list to the library board when they > decide what non-fiction books to get for next year. > > So, ladies and gentlemen can you take a couple of minutes to email me off-list > wittheh name and/or author of historical costuming refernces that a library > ought to have? > > Many thanks! > > Christine in Dayton, OH > >> ^..^< >^..^< proudly owned by cats since 1993. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 16:01:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SL1dOL002774 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:01:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SL0N76023393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:00:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SL0JHf000333; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:00:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SL0GHf000278 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:00:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.60.243] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A81F16201BC; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:57:03 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <$ga94HCOEtn$IwxI@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> References: <3F9B1459.30603@thibault.org> <005201c39c6d$fd922e90$49cf36cb@clarke> <3F9D0187.5070701@thibault.org> <$ga94HCOEtn$IwxI@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:02:36 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >It's fascinating, isn't it - there are a whole range of different >ways of arranging hair in nets on either side of your head, in blobs >or tubes or horns or rectangles - and a modern designer manages to >pick the one version that never actually existed! > >Jean >-- >Jean Waddie LOL! Yes, but that makes me wonder.... If someone 1000 years from now based what they know about our fashions on the Victoria's Secret catalogue, I wonder if they'd come to the right conclusions.... ;-D The Dodo story still holds. How do we know that nobody wore it? Maybe EVERYBODY wore it, but wouldn't be caught dead in a portrait that way, 'cause that was their "everyday" hair.... I mean, how many portraits would have been painted of ladies in curlers or in mud masques, or housecoats???? (not that I think these cauls were comparable...) Or maybe the artists were just making stuff up. Heck, if I based what I know about ballet on what visual artists have created, I wouldn't know a damn thing. 99.9% of art you see depicting dancers is just plain WRONG. (and on this, I actually AM an expert! - as opposed to this history of fashion, which I definitely am NOT) ;-D The answer is, we'll never know.... but we sure can keep looking.... Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 16:01:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SL1hOL002777 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:01:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SL0o76023445 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:00:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SL0oHf000820; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:00:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SL0HHf000297 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:00:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.60.243] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A82116201BC; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:57:05 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:03:31 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] Request for resources Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Wait! Not just off-list. I'm sure if we all got together with a really good >list and requested it of our various libraries, we could really improve the >quality of the libraries (and therefore ILL) all over the country or, dare I >say it?, the world. Muah-ha-ha. > >LynnD EXCELLENT evil plan.... I second the motion.... even if I just use it to augment my own personal library!! Rima Evil Grin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 16:03:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SL3fOL002787 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:03:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SL2j76023643 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:02:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SL2iHf002456; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:02:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SL2fHf002390 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:02:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNH00ES0JSFBF@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:02:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:03:30 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: modern distortions, and Shogun In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031028125640.029a0578@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <200310261903.h9QJ3DlA023409@net.indra.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:23 PM 10/28/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Anyway, I am enjoying it. I remember at the time a lot of fuss was made >about the authenticity of it, and I have a book on the making of the >miniseries packed away somewhere. Anyone have any comments? Thanks Gail for the reminder. I was a kid watching it with my Mom, who is Japanese. She would just cackle with the Japanese in-jokes and comments, and then translate them for us, and they weren't quite the same as was said in the movie itself. I fell in lust with Richard Chamberlain just from that movie. Something about him at the time. I never got much into Japanese costumes, although a friend of mine is. I will have to ask him about the authenticity of that movie. Which reminds me, that same friend says there is a new movie coming out soon with Tom Cruise, set in 19th c. Japan. Tom plays an old Civil War military officer who finds a new lease on life in Japan. I think it is called "The Last Samurai". I will be checking it out. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 16:41:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SLf5OL002925 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:41:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SLcI76027226 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:38:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SLcBHf004674; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:38:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SLc8Hf004614 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:38:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from ernie.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.243]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AEbXS-0006g3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:38:06 -0800 Message-ID: <17413988.1067377086383.JavaMail.root@ernie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:38:02 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Christine Krebs-Bonder To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Subject: [h-cost] RE: Historical Distortions and Shogun X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just got the Shogun DVDs on Friday and spent most of Saturday watching them from start to finish. I remember the week that it aired on televsion very well. All of us came home from high school or work and got all the chores and dinner done so we wouldn't miss a minute of it. I think it was the only time that our entire family was sitting down and watching the same show at one time and not trying to talk whoever had the remote (it was connected to the TV by a wire) into changing channels. I have to say that the miniseries had a lot to do with getting me into historical costuming and world history in general. I still don't know enough about that late a period to comment on the accuracy of the European clothing, but the Japanese dress seems to still be pretty accurate (this per my sister who was stationed in Japan and took a class on Japanese clothing while she was there). I'd just love to get hold of the fabric form the kimonos! Chrisitne in Dayton, OH >^..^< >^..^< proudly owned by cats since 1993. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 16:59:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SLwxOL002998 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:59:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SLps76028683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:51:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SLppHf017148; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:51:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SLpkHg017018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:51:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9SLpNPX019571 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:51:23 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:51:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3F9EE524.3020504@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:52:36 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Request for resources References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What time period(s) are you interested in? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 17:02:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SM2BOL003011 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:02:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SM1F76000525 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:01:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SM1DLL026596; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:01:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop2b.ripco.com (pop2b.ripco.com [209.100.227.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SM18LL026527 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:01:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from ripco.com (cybil2.ripco.com [209.100.224.203]) by pop2b.ripco.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9SM17sX005522 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:01:07 -0600 (CST) From: zski@ripco.com To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:01:53 -0600 X-Mailer: CWMail Web to Mail Gateway 2.8c, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <3f9ee723.60dc.0@ripco.com> X-User-Info: 199.250.136.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] wearing blinders X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >The infamous English gable headdress also covers the ears A friend of mine has a headress she calls her "what hat". This is because every time she wears it, she spends all day looking at people who talk to her and going "What?" *heehee* Wendy Z planning to wear my Flemish Kirtle to work on Friday in Chicago, IL _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 17:34:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SMY5OL003117 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:34:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SMXB76003755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:33:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SMX8LL025855; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:33:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SMX4LL025802 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:33:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AEcOd-0006Qf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:33:03 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:33:17 -0700 Message-ID: <001e01c39da3$7d2b0fb0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <3F9EB51D.6000908@reddawn.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh yes! You can do this...works great! -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 11:28 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen Here's another question for you experienced dyers. A local store has put the spring linen on the clearance table. I can get hot pink or a pale lime green for a ridiculous amount per yard. They are actually linen-cotton blends. Can I overdye these a darker color? Or is there something on the fabric to 'finish' it that would prevent successful results? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 17:39:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SMdPOL003146 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:39:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SMch76004326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:38:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SMcgLL001100; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:38:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SMcaLL000930 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:38:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1a3.1c0ff963 (3948) for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:38:15 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1a3.1c0ff963.2cd049d6@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:38:14 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/28/2003 3:09:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: > No, no, don't worry, nothing that drastic! It will fade the way cotton > does, > just slightly faster. Nothing to be worried about, I think. > Especially if you are just "adjusting" the color it already is instead of changing the color altogether. Remember your color wheel.....use the complimentary color [opposite color, directly across the wheel.....you don't really need an actual wheel just remember where the primary and secondary colors fall. Pink is of course a shade of red and lime green is a yellow-green....between the yellow and the green] don't use just grey or black. You'll get a richer, more appealing color. Unless you want a dull color. Also with linen, don't dry it in the drier. Iron dry the damp. just spun fabric from the washer. Spay starch will crisp it up a little. Liquid starch will crisp it up a lot. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 17:50:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SMouOL003192 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:50:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SMni76005298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:49:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SMngLL010722; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:49:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SMneLL010671 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:49:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.60.243] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A1C32B801B8; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:46:27 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1a3.1c0ff963.2cd049d6@aol.com> References: <1a3.1c0ff963.2cd049d6@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:52:55 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Also with linen, don't dry it in the drier. Iron dry the damp. just spun >fabric from the washer. Spay starch will crisp it up a little. >Liquid starch will >crisp it up a lot. OTOH, if you want to make your linen silky soft and drapey, take it out of the washer, fold it up, and stick it in the FREEZER. When it's a solid block, take it out and iron it with a really hot iron. This takes a while, but doing this once or twice will take a scratchy crispy linen and make it yummy soft! This is a great way to distress a period shirt without trashing it.... just makes it look well worn and comfy.... Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 18:11:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SNBqOL003315 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:11:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SNBC76007833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:11:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SNB9lq001220; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:11:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SNB6lq001107 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:11:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E6EE425CE for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:15:05 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3F9EF7DB.2070309@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:12:27 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen References: <1a3.1c0ff963.2cd049d6@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1a3.1c0ff963.2cd049d6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > Remember your color wheel.....use the complimentary color [opposite color, > directly across the wheel.....you don't really need an actual wheel just > remember where the primary and secondary colors fall. Pink is of course a shade of > red and lime green is a yellow-green....between the yellow and the green] don't > use just grey or black. You'll get a richer, more appealing color. Unless you > want a dull color. Are you suggesting that I should dye the fabric a complimentary color for a richer color result? I should put the hot pink into a yellow-green dye? And the lime into a red dye? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 18:50:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SNotOL003389 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:50:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SNo776011548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:50:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SNmAlq003275; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:48:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SNlxlq003082 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from p114-nas1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.210.114] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AEdZ5-0001hg-00; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:47:55 +1300 Message-ID: <007101c39dad$e9d85dc0$72d2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200310270854.h9R8sioY020698@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: history as a timeline Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:47:55 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I find that I have a timeline of costumes, that I can picture, and I > have to hang events on that. So, I can put composers in the right order > by the style of wig, or authors by the clothes their characters wear. > Do other people do that? or am I just strange? I pretty much do the same.. except for the composers. I may have a poor ear as far as persuing a musical career goes, but I do tend to separate my composers by sound. Then again I do go... hmm.. frothy music... probably 18th C.. would the women be wearing paniers...? Most events in European history I pin on the costume timeline I have in my head. Not miltary uniforms, womens dress.... which makes for some odd mental images really. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 18:52:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SNqnOL003394 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:52:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SNq876011775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:52:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SNq4G1006914; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:52:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt7.ihug.co.nz (grunt7.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SNoTlq005317 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:50:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from p114-nas1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.210.114] by grunt7.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AEdbU-0003sk-00; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:50:24 +1300 Message-ID: <007701c39dae$446a8dd0$72d2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031028141543.70512.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] triple velvet? Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:50:28 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Looking at this -- > http://www.denverfabrics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=00 1&Category_Code=TripVel > > What is triple velvet? In that regard I suspect it has more to do with thickness of the pile... double velvet has a fuller pile than the very cheap nylon velvets. So Triple probably has a very lovely full pile. I know that book on costuming in Shakespeare's plays/times mentions triple velvet as velvet with two pile lengths as well as a satin ground. Clicking on the link to individual velvets on the above page brings up info that suggests it's just a fuller piled velvet. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 19:51:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T0p5OL003547 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:51:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T0o976016086 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:50:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T0o4xw017020; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:50:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T0o1xw016914 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.c.1af2164f (3948) for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:48:44 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:48:44 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/28/2003 6:11:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: > Are you suggesting that I should dye the fabric a complimentary color > for a richer color result? I should put the hot pink into a yellow-green > dye? And the lime into a red dye? > No. I was assuming you want to just tone down the hot pink and lime green so they aren't bright. You can do this with say Ritt black [which is really grey- purple] very diluted. But that will look dingy. If you dip the hot pink in a pale, pale green bath, it will kill the glow but probably still be a nice color [I can't really be sure because I have to see the colors to decide what makes what]. The lime green could go in a pale wine color. These would be the exact complimentary colors and neutralize the existing color. You can go more...oh yellow... if you put the lime green in a pale orange instead of wine. [moving towards the yellow on the wheel], or more green if you put it in a pale blue. I only mention it because the default solution for many who don't work with mixing colors regularly is to just grey it down with some grey [light black]. But you can get some amazing subtle colors if you think in terms of the color wheel and complimentary colors. Of course if you want the hot pink to be concord grape....try dipping it in a plum color.....the lime to be emerald, try shades of royal blue.... Whatever you do....make tests. If the fabric's so cheap, you can afford to experiment. Hey....have some fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 20:14:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T1EQOL003618 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:14:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T1Dk76017661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:13:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T1Djx7001056; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:13:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T1Dfx7000960 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:13:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_dev1.2.) id 6.126.3346f607 (3948) for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:13:27 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <126.3346f607.2cd06e37@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:13:27 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO All this reminded me of when I had a friend who worked for this little Costume company. They had this 1860s ball gown of electric yellow taffeta [with big RED cabbage roses and sky blue ribbons all over the skirt ...YIKES!]. It fit a client perfectly but was too costumey and awful for the Christmas Carol they were costuming [I know...not 1860s, but with petticoats instead of a hoop, it looked fine]. My friend had taste and was doing his best to make it all look good without much to work with. Anyway, it was 3:00 AM and I had helped him strip the roses and ribbons off the dress and now he was going to dip it in grey to kill the Psycho yellow. They were out of grey dye. But they had purple so I said "do it in purple" [yellow's compliment]. He was scared to death but agreed. I mean the bath was PURPLE. The head of the shop had a heart attack when she saw us put the dress in the dye. She literally screamed and ran over to the tub. "NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!" Then she dressed me down "You don't even work here!" Bitch. So the dress came out the most beautiful bronze color and was breathtaking. It almost looked metallic. My friend decorated it with white lace and wide olive picot ribbon. Very chic! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 20:23:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T1NEOL003669 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:23:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T1Md76018114 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:22:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T1Mcx7006044; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:22:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T1MZx7005986 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:22:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23975 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:46:38 -0600 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:46:37 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > Whatever you do....make tests. If the fabric's so cheap, you can > afford to experiment. I always test before I dye. I keep a bunch of Rit liquid bottles on hand anyway (I tend to buy them when drugstores go out of business) and I've marked some as my sample bottles, so I know they're less than completely full. (I hate using the powder, so I always go with liquid.) I wash a strip of the fabric and cut it into swatches of about an inch or two. I take a row of baby food jars or custard cups and put in each 1/2 cup of boiling water from the kettle. Then I add 1/2 tsp Rit for lighter shades, or (more often) 1 tsp if I'm planning more intense/darker shades (just as, on the back of the bottle, they tell you to use more dye for darker shades). I often mix shades in dying, so I might use 1/2 tsp of each of two colors. I label each cup with the dye name or combination. Then I toss in a small swatch that I've just re-wet with hot water. I poke it down with a toothpick or plastic spoon. I leave them till the water is well cooled down -- a couple of hours -- and then pour them out, rinse them, and let them dry. I make sure to keep straight which swatches came from which cups! It helps to have written labels next to the cups, and then later to line up the swatches with the labels. I often wait till I have several fabrics to test, so I can use two or three swatches in each cup. Sometimes I find that a fabric will dye will in some color ranges, but not take dye at all in other colors. When I have a large bolt of some neutral or white fabric, I save the test swatches and pin them to the bolt, so I know later what colors will work for whatever portion of the bolt I want to dye. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 20:23:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T1NiOL003680 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:23:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T1N776018162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:23:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T1N6x7006468; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:23:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T1N3x7006423 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:23:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNH00FUKVUB55@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:22:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:23:52 -0800 From: Kimiko Small In-reply-to: <126.3346f607.2cd06e37@aol.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031028172148.02985988@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [h-cost] On the topic of dyeing... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Then may I ask a question. I don't do much dyeing, and have basic ideas of the color wheel and all that. I was trained in business, not art. Anyway, I have a red-burgundy material, cotton velveteen, that I really want to darken to a more wine burgundy color. Should I add in blue, purple or a burgundy dye to it? What would you suggest? thanks! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 21:11:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T2BXOL003948 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:11:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T29F76021071 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:09:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T29Dgm001225; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:09:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T290gm001127 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:09:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip217.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.217]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 779246AA40 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:03:32 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:08:56 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen Message-ID: <3F9EB0B8.7417.D153F3@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3F9EB51D.6000908@reddawn.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Here's another question for you experienced dyers. A local store has > put the spring linen on the clearance table. I can get hot pink or a > pale lime green for a ridiculous amount per yard. They are actually > linen-cotton blends. > > Can I overdye these a darker color? Or is there something on the > fabric to 'finish' it that would prevent successful results? Ah, the memories of 2001! We had so much of the lime green and hot pink 100% linen (at about $1.44 a yard for most of it!) Robin was lucky. She had access to lovely dark green! I ended up with durn near 40 yards of the hot pink. I tried to remove the dye with Rit dye remover as well as (on a different part of the same piece) but the lightest I came up with was a peach color. (I would never have guessed that there had been that much yellow in it to begin with!) So, mostly I've overdyed it. Using Royal Blue Rit, the bright pink comes out a gorgeous purple. I don't remember what I used for the burgundy (although I suspect I used a burgundy.) It seems to dye very well and I haven't had any problem with crocking, fading or other forms of colorfast problems so far. I would imagine that you could get most of the darker colors you might want to have using either the lime or the hot pink. (Not at the same time.) I've dyed linen-cotton blends, and they seem to react the same. The darker you want it to be, the more dye you need. (Use twice the "recommended amount" to get darker colors such as burgundy or purple.) If you are just trying to mute the color, make sure that the complimentary color to the one you're using is in the mix. In some cases it looks "richer" although sometimes it just looks muddier. If you get enough, I strongly recommend that you try the dyes on small samples of your fabric. That way you have a better idea of how it will turn out, so that the "surprises" are more pleasant when you do the big piece. One thing we did find with the 2001 batch was that even though they looked the same, some of the hot pink did not act like they were the same color as other pieces of hot pink. Have fun with it. I'm almost out of what I got back then. (It makes *really* nice interlining!) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 21:12:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T2BxOL003952 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:11:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T2B476021186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:11:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T2B3gm002119; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.surewest.net (smtp2.surewest.net [208.45.228.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9T2B0gm002066 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 19051 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2003 02:10:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21) (66.205.128.11) by smtp2.surewest.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 02:10:55 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031028180719.00bd3570@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:10:52 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen In-Reply-To: <3F9EB51D.6000908@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2 SNWK2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:27 PM 10/28/2003 -0600, you wrote: >Here's another question for you experienced dyers. A local store has put >the spring linen on the clearance table. I can get hot pink or a pale lime >green for a ridiculous amount per yard. They are actually linen-cotton blends. > >Can I overdye these a darker color? Or is there something on the fabric to >'finish' it that would prevent successful results? > >Dawn I have successfully overdyed a very bright lime green linen-cotton blend. I first used a "color-remover" to dull the color, then used a strong blue and got a lovely solid blue fabric. And I used the often-dissed Rit dyes. Good result, no problems with dyes running or crocking. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 21:13:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T2D5OL003965 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:13:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T2CR76021265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:12:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T2CQgm002771; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:12:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T2CNgn002740 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:12:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9T2CTOS025864 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:12:37 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9T2CNmh025862 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:12:23 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] triple velvet? Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:12:22 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20031028141543.70512.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> <007701c39dae$446a8dd0$72d2adcb@michaela> In-Reply-To: <007701c39dae$446a8dd0$72d2adcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310282112.22801.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 28 October 2003 06:50 pm, michaela wrote: > > Looking at this -- > > http://www.denverfabrics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=0 >0 1&Category_Code=TripVel > > > What is triple velvet? > > In that regard I suspect it has more to do with thickness of the pile... > double velvet has a fuller pile than the very cheap nylon velvets. So > Triple probably has a very lovely full pile. I went to the site and checked out one of the samples on the page Mara gave us the pointer to. It said: Description: Inexpensive, generic velvet suitable for a wide variety of uses Color: Scarlet red Fiber Content: 65% Acetate/35% Nylon, percent N/A Weight per Sq/Yd: 4.05 oz Width: 45 inches Origin: N/A Price: Compare at $11.00 - Now only $5.98 per yard. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 21:19:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T2JbOL003977 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:19:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T1BS76017513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:11:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T1BRx7029553; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T1BNx8029483 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:11:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9T1B0PX020469 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:11:00 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:10:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3F9F13ED.2030505@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:12:13 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Whatever you do....make tests. If the fabric's so cheap, you can afford to > experiment. Hey....have some fun! Yeah! Tie-dye it! (ok, ok, I'm calming down now!) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 21:23:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T2NYOL003984 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:23:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T2N076021977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:23:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T2Mxgm008061; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:22:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T2Mogn007983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:22:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9T2MfOS025903 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:22:53 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9T2MZQx025901 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:22:35 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:22:35 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <1a3.1c0ff963.2cd049d6@aol.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310282122.35610.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 28 October 2003 05:52 pm, Rima wrote: > >Also with linen, don't dry it in the drier. Iron dry the damp. just spun > >fabric from the washer. Spay starch will crisp it up a little. > >Liquid starch will > >crisp it up a lot. > > OTOH, if you want to make your linen silky soft and drapey, take it > out of the washer, fold it up, and stick it in the FREEZER. When > it's a solid block, take it out and iron it with a really hot iron. Uh, before or after you get it thawed enough to unfold? :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 21:34:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T2YmOL004004 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:34:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T2YE76022598 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:34:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T2YBgm013751; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:34:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T2Y8gm013699 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:34:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24410 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:58:10 -0600 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:58:10 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen In-Reply-To: <3F9EB0B8.7417.D153F3@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > Ah, the memories of 2001! We had so much of the lime green and hot > pink 100% linen (at about $1.44 a yard for most of it!) Robin was > lucky. She had access to lovely dark green! That was when Jo-Ann's its linens onto clearance nationwide that year, and a bunch of us made the rounds and bought it up. I was doing some road travel about that time, so I just cruised into the Jo-Ann's in each city I passed through. I think I bought linen in five states. We had a thread here on what we were doing with our "finds." Most of the dark green I found ended up in Kat's stash; she made a good case that she needed it more than I did ;-) I'm still working through the massive quantities of hot pink I got then, for mockups in my workshops (as some of you know!). If the poster who mentioned the current find hadn't specified that it was a blend rather than pure linen, I'd go get some of the lime green to make my workshops even more vibrant ;-) I did bleach some of the hot pink down to a nice pale pink, which I'll use as a lining for something someday. > One thing we did find with the 2001 batch was that even though they > looked the same, some of the hot pink did not act like they were the > same color as other pieces of hot pink. I had at least three distinct shades. I've been hesitating to cut into the last of the pieces, because it's really more of a raspberry and might be rather attractive for a modern dress. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 21:53:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T2raOL004045 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:53:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T2qs76024503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:52:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T2qogm026289; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:52:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T2qmgm026185 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:52:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a226.in-tch.com [66.62.107.26]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9T2Vnc20702 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:31:49 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3F9F2C0E.F7A1D4C4@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:55:10 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com ??; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My 2001 hot-pink linen stash will become the lining for my first (trial) fitted gown, one of these days. Really. As soon as I find the ratzen-fratzen bag that I put my mockup and notes from Robin's workshop in....(argh, I hate moving). The wool twill for the gown's outside is a similar hot pink. And this summer, oh joy of joys, I actually found tangerine-colored upholstery velvet for a sideless surcoat. I oughta be eye-watering! Teddy would be so proud! Robin, in one of my bins somewhere I've got a big chunk of linen yardage also from 2001. It was originally turquoise, and then I gave it a good dose of Rit color remover. It's now a very unfortunate sea foam green. I'd be glad to donate it for your workshop usage, if you'd like. Heck, you could even get some Evil Green Dye, and make it that acid green..... --sue Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > Ah, the memories of 2001! We had so much of the lime green and hot > > pink 100% linen (at about $1.44 a yard for most of it!) Robin was > > lucky. She had access to lovely dark green! > > That was when Jo-Ann's its linens onto clearance nationwide that year, and > a bunch of us made the rounds and bought it up. I was doing some road > travel about that time, so I just cruised into the Jo-Ann's in each city I > passed through. I think I bought linen in five states. > > We had a thread here on what we were doing with our "finds." Most of the > dark green I found ended up in Kat's stash; she made a good case that she > needed it more than I did ;-) I'm still working through the massive > quantities of hot pink I got then, for mockups in my workshops (as some of > you know!). If the poster who mentioned the current find hadn't specified > that it was a blend rather than pure linen, I'd go get some of the lime > green to make my workshops even more vibrant ;-) > > I did bleach some of the hot pink down to a nice pale pink, which I'll use > as a lining for something someday. > > > One thing we did find with the 2001 batch was that even though they > > looked the same, some of the hot pink did not act like they were the > > same color as other pieces of hot pink. > > I had at least three distinct shades. I've been hesitating to cut into the > last of the pieces, because it's really more of a raspberry and might be > rather attractive for a modern dress. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 22:10:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T3AHOL004073 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:10:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T39Y76025539 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:09:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T39U2o005322; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:09:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T39R2o005268 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:09:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.157.26a32834 (3948) for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:09:18 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <157.26a32834.2cd0895e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:09:18 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] On the topic of dyeing... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/28/2003 8:23:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, kimiko@kimiko1.com writes: > Should I add in blue, purple or a burgundy dye to it? What > would you suggest? > Again, it's hard to tell when you can't see the colors. Hard? It's impossible. Still, purple and burgundy are a mix of red and blue so you'd be adding more red. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 22:41:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T3fEOL004115 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:41:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T3eS76027423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:40:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T3eQ2o020713; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:40:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T3eN2q020667 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:40:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNI00F3Y279WK@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:40:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:41:02 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] On the topic of dyeing... In-reply-to: <157.26a32834.2cd0895e@aol.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031028193934.00b08800@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:09 PM 10/28/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Again, it's hard to tell when you can't see the colors. Hard? It's >impossible. > >Still, purple and burgundy are a mix of red and blue so you'd be adding more >red. Very true, Thanks for pointing those both out to me. And no sense scanning the fabric in to show you, as colors vary between monitors. {shrug}. I think I shall try shades of blue with Robin's test method and see what erupts. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 22:41:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T3fJOL004118 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:41:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T3ei76027446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:40:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T3eh2o020831; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:40:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T3eN2o020667 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:40:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNI00F3Y279WK@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:40:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:39:26 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031028193831.02985988@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:46 PM 10/28/2003 -0600, you wrote: >I wash a strip of the fabric and cut it into swatches of about an inch or >two. I take a row of baby food jars or custard cups and put in each 1/2 >cup of boiling water from the kettle. <> Wow Robin, I like your method of testing. Thanks for sharing. I will be doing this with that red velveteen when I am ready to dye. So many projects, so little time. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams." - Eleanor Roosevelt LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/~sstormwatch/ e-mail: kimiko@kimiko1.com web site: http://www.kimiko1.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 22:56:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T3uXOL004134 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:56:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T3tr76028666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:55:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T3tnbq029335; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:55:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T3tlbq029277 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:55:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC154425CE for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:00:06 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3F9F3AAE.1070403@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:57:34 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I'm back from the fabric store with 11 and 3/4 yards of the light green. It's more of a pistachio color now that I have it in front of me. The pink wasn't as bright as I recalled, either, but I passed on that because the bolt wasn't labelled and I wasn't sure after all if it was the linen blend. I was tired and not up to telling by feel. Eleven yards will be plenty for playing with. Anyway, I got a box of dark green and a box of yellow RIT to experiment with. They were sold out of brown dye, but I'm sure I can find it someplace else. I really want a mustard color and a rust. I'm going to put it into the wash tonight... maybe ... and run it through twice as suggested. I'll let y'all know what I do with it after that. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 23:02:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T42oOL004147 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:02:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T42B76029045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:02:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T42Abq002698; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:02:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T428br002680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:02:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (acty2178.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.243.178]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9T42J35013890 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:02:20 -0500 Message-ID: <3F9F3BB7.2070004@dandy.net> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:01:59 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings References: <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass><000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. Lisa, I believe that Stubbes is referring to the "seam" of clocking that is placed at the sides of the ankles. Knitted hose might have them, in imitation of cut cloth hose. One form of cut cloth hose ends up having a triangular gusset at the ankle (both sides), due to the way that the cloth is cut. The foot portion, instead of being made up of three pieces (sole, upper foot and leg) is made of two, the sole with two wings (triangular bits) which fit into the gaps created by the cutting of the leg into an upper foot piece and two sides, which are joined at the back to form the seam all the way to the heel. Look at pg. 189 fig 169 of MoL Textiles and Clothing for an idea (the example is listed as 16th cent. from Finsbury, London). Examples of knitted hose having clocking in imitation of the cuthose is on pg 635 (figs 1698-1700) of Davenports Book of Costume. My wife, the knitter in the family, tells me that the "imitation gusset" is actually a useful part of the construction of the stocking, easing the transition between the heel and the foot as they are made from the leg of the stocking. Like the chicken and the egg, I don't know which came first, or for what purpose. Later knit stockings, also in Davenport, also show decoration on the backseams. Cheers, Mike T. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 23:16:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T4G4OL004167 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:16:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T4FS76029847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:15:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T4FQbq009608; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:15:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.donet.com (mail.donet.com [64.56.96.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T4FObr009547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:15:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 22492 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2003 04:15:18 -0000 X-Sender: mjh@pearlandplume.com X-Recipient: h-costume@indra.com Received: from unknown (HELO ?65.24.122.14?) (65.24.122.14) by mail.donet.com for h-costume@indra.com with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 04:15:18 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:13:28 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen From: Marsha J Hamilton To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Who knew that all that hot pink linen would be so popular---just not in that color. I bought a bolt of the hideous hot pink linen a few years ago on sale. I ran it through the washer and dryer, then debated about color remover. Sounded like too much work, so I risked dyeing it. Used Rit dark plum and it took beautifully. I did have trouble when I tried to dye too large of a length. The crease line on the fold didn't take the dye evenly. I already rinsed it and ran it through the dryer before noticing. I later overdyed it using the same Rit dark plum, and it evened up the color perfectly. I kept the agitator going, rather than just letting it soak. That made all the difference. I made a knife pleated skirt with 4.75 yds of it. Does anyone know the origin of the phrase "knife pleats"? I assumed it was because the crease is sharp. I was having a hard time keeping each pleat the same exact size and shape. So got an old rounded table knife and used it to fold over the fabric while pinning. It made perfect, even pleats. I'm self-taught so don't know correct practices but has anyone else ever made knife pleats using a knife? Is that the origin of the phrase? P.S. Robin, thanks for the post on how to set up a dye test. I'm going to try that next time, rather than crossing my fingers and hope it works. Marsha --------------------- on 10/28/03 9:58 PM, Robin Netherton at robin@shell.nightowl.net wrote: >> Ah, the memories of 2001! We had so much of the lime green and hot >> pink 100% linen (at about $1.44 a yard for most of it!) > > I did bleach some of the hot pink down to a nice pale pink, which I'll use > as a lining for something someday. > >> One thing we did find with the 2001 batch was that even though they >> looked the same, some of the hot pink did not act like they were the >> same color as other pieces of hot pink. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 23:47:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T4ldOL004215 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:47:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T4l476001589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:47:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T4l1bq025468; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:47:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9T4kwbq025378 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:46:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-67-119-192-99.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.119.192.99 with login) by smtp1.bt.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 04:46:53 -0000 Message-ID: <021201c39dd7$abdf8d70$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <12495664.1067372786300.JavaMail.root@waldorf.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Request for resources Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:46:49 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a list of my "must have" costuming books on my website at http://demode.tweedlebop.com/bookshelf.html My focus is on 18th century, Regency, and Victorian (early to late) costuming, plus there are some technical costuming books as well (which are great for things like pattern drafting). - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 28 23:55:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T4tGOL004230 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:55:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T4se76001888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:54:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T4sdbq029156; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:54:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T4sYbq029104 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:54:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25103 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:18:37 -0600 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:18:37 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen In-Reply-To: <3F9F2C0E.F7A1D4C4@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, Sue Clemenger wrote: > Robin, in one of my bins somewhere I've got a big chunk of linen > yardage also from 2001. It was originally turquoise, and then I gave > it a good dose of Rit color remover. It's now a very unfortunate sea > foam green. I'd be glad to donate it for your workshop usage, if > you'd like. Heck, you could even get some Evil Green Dye, and make it > that acid green..... Thanks, but I know how hard it is to get linen where you are, and it makes great lining and interlining, for various periods. I think you or someone you know will find a use for it. Meanwhile, I'm sitting on a motherlode of linen at Fashion Fabrics, so can replenish any time. The idea of screaming hues for workshopping is really appealing, because then I don't feel guilty plunging into the stuff with a shears (as in "but maybe I should save that for something real"). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 00:02:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T52ZOL004253 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:02:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T4xS76002235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:59:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T4xRsI001696; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:59:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T4xNsI001674 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:59:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25144 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:23:26 -0600 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:23:26 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] On the topic of dyeing... In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031028193934.00b08800@64.87.54.245> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, Kimiko Small wrote: > At 10:09 PM 10/28/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >Again, it's hard to tell when you can't see the colors. Hard? It's > >impossible. > > > >Still, purple and burgundy are a mix of red and blue so you'd be adding more > >red. > > Very true, Thanks for pointing those both out to me. And no sense > scanning the fabric in to show you, as colors vary between monitors. > {shrug}. I think I shall try shades of blue with Robin's test method > and see what erupts. Different shades of blue will likely also get you wildly different results -- some will react well with the existing dye, others not so well. Rit used to run a service -- you could send them a swatch of what you were trying to match, and they'd send you the recipe of what dyes to combine to get that shade. I don't know if they'd be able to do it with an existing dyed piece, though, since there are too many factors involved in how well the dye would take on an unknown fabric. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 00:35:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T5ZsOL004347 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:35:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T5Z976004094 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:35:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T5Z7sI018992; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:35:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T5Z3sI018878 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:35:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB466425CE for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:39:26 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3F9F51F8.2080508@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:36:56 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marsha J Hamilton wrote: > > > so I risked dyeing it. Used Rit dark plum and it took > beautifully. You wouldn't happen to have a picture? I had trouble imagining 'dark plum' from the grey color of the box at the store. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 02:27:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T7RkOL013565 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:27:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T7RD76009076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:27:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T7RDZ0010809; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:27:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T7P5Z0010003 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:25:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-125-53.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.125.53]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9T7P0AC003573 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:25:04 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031028231011.0487d650@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:24:51 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: stretchy (was Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings In-Reply-To: References: <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass> <000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I haven't been able to find a knit fabric that's close to what I see in >original hose, because originals were not stretchy. Where do you get that information? If they are knitted, they ought to stretch a little - any knitted fabric has some stretch in it. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 02:28:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9T7SHOL013709 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:28:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T7PA76008983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:25:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T7P6Z0010013; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:25:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9T7P4Z0009987 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:25:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-125-53.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.125.53]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9T7P0AA003573 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:25:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031028225329.05ad0ec0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:24:22 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: hose gusset (was Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings In-Reply-To: <3F9F3BB7.2070004@dandy.net> References: <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass> <000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Hi, All. Lisa, I believe that Stubbes is referring to the "seam" of >clocking that is placed at the sides of the ankles. Knitted hose might >have them, in imitation of cut cloth hose. Immitation is not why knit hose have that gusset, even tho the first knitted stockings were probably made by someone looking at how cut-and-sewn hose were made. You knit that gusset in there so the top of the foot sticks out at an angle from the leg (and it is about the simplest way to accomplish this). Then you knit the heel, then you knit the rest of the foot. While you're still knitting the leg, you can decorate above where the gusset will be. There are several ways to make the heel, foot, and toe of a stocking. The book Folk Socks shows several, along with the working directions for each. >One form of cut cloth hose ends up having a triangular gusset at the ankle >(both sides), due to the way that the cloth is cut. The foot portion, >instead of being made up of three pieces (sole, upper foot and leg) is >made of two, the sole with two wings (triangular bits) which fit into the >gaps created by the cutting of the leg into an upper foot piece and two >sides, which are joined at the back to form the seam all the way to the >heel. Look at pg. 189 fig 169 of MoL Textiles and Clothing for an idea >(the example is listed as 16th cent. from Finsbury, London). Examples of >knitted hose having clocking in imitation of the cuthose is on pg 635 >(figs 1698-1700) of Davenports Book of Costume. My wife, the knitter in >the family, tells me that the "imitation gusset" is actually a useful part >of the construction of the stocking, easing the transition between the >heel and the foot as they are made from the leg of the stocking. Like the >chicken and the egg, I don't know which came first, or for what >purpose. Later knit stockings, also in Davenport, also show decoration on >the backseams. Cheers, Mike T. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 06:42:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TBgZOL011137 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:42:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TBfi76017507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 04:41:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TBfbkT019863; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 04:41:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TBfXkT019841 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 04:41:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h9TBhMj12615 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 03:43:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 03:43:22 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200310291143.h9TBhMj12615@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] tricorn hat? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm looking for a good quality tricorn hat. I've got a line on a decent quality felt one with a leather liner, but I'd like to see other sources. I especially don't want one of Hatcrafter's cardboard-like felt hats. If I'm going to go to a lot of trouble trimming a hat, I'd like the base to actually be worth the trouble. Failing that, what's a good source for a round-crowned, wide-brimmed felt blank? I've certainly blocked tricorns out of wide brimmed hats for dolls before. It'd just be a lot more trouble for a full-sized hat, as I only have a very wimpy steamer. Better to just buy a hat that's already been blocked if possible. Urgh. Speaking of blocking, my felt topper needs a new coat of sizing. The cats just *love* that hat, because of all the ribbon trim hanging off it. So it gets pulled down off the shelf and squashed fairly often... Hey, remember all those AOL CDs I was looking for? I'm finally putting them to use. I'm just finishing the last stages of destroying and reassembling a black overcoat into a long overvest with laced sides, chain and snapclip closed front, and pointed shoulder pads. I'm in the process of sewing down ribbon strips to reinforce the areas that the CDs will be resting on. The CDs get sewn in by hand with 60 pound monofilament (fishing line is cheap and nearly indestructable). Anyway, I put the garment shell on to try out the fit and see what it'd look like with my knee-high buckle boots. And the thought that came to my head was, "With a poufy shirt and a tricorn hat, I could be the Music Pirate, dread scourge of the RIAA!" I may have to do this costume sometime. But I wanted the tricorn hat *before* I got this idea. I just love weird and lavishly trimmed hats. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 07:50:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TCotOL011243 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:50:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TCoJ76021833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 05:50:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TCoF8p023743; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 05:50:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TClv8p022432 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 05:48:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a217.in-tch.com [66.62.107.17]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9TCQsc11430 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 05:26:54 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3F9FB787.43D66ECB@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 05:50:15 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: stretchy (was Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings References: <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass> <000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> <4.3.1.2.20031028231011.0487d650@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Maybe they're referring to the type of fiber used? Silk is much less "elastic" than wool, for instance. --sue Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > >I haven't been able to find a knit fabric that's close to what I see in > >original hose, because originals were not stretchy. > > Where do you get that information? If they are knitted, they ought to > stretch a little - any knitted fabric has some stretch in it. > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 08:29:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TDTlOL011349 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:29:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TDTC76024704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:29:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TDTAOU013076; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:29:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TDSNOU012683 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:28:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-44-086.jps.net ([209.165.44.86] helo=pavilion) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AEqN4-0003mj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 05:28:22 -0800 Message-ID: <000f01c39e21$318f7360$562ca5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass> <000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <4.3.1.2.20031028231011.0487d650@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: stretchy (was Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 05:33:07 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think this comment came from Carol who also mentioned she spent a month in Nottingham learning to use an old knitting frame. If so, its first hand experience talking. Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 11:24 PM Subject: stretchy (was Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings > > >I haven't been able to find a knit fabric that's close to what I see in > >original hose, because originals were not stretchy. > > Where do you get that information? If they are knitted, they ought to > stretch a little - any knitted fabric has some stretch in it. > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 08:31:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TDVROL011356 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:31:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TDUd76024774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:30:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TDUcOU013764; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:30:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TDUBOU013588 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:30:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.249.181.46] (pool181-75.patriot.net [209.249.181.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9TDU8wP006661 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:30:10 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031028231011.0487d650@mail.frys.com> References: <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass> <000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <4.3.1.2.20031028231011.0487d650@mail.frys.com> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:30:39 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: stretchy (was Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>I haven't been able to find a knit fabric that's close to what I >>see in original hose, because originals were not stretchy. > >Where do you get that information? If they are knitted, they ought >to stretch a little - any knitted fabric has some stretch in it. Hi Carolyn, I got that info by looking at lots and lots and lots of 18thC extant stockings. The knit is dense and tight. I haven't compared it directly to the stretch in bias cut fabric - I should do that. Modern knit fabrics are very stretchy, much moreso that the original stockings. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 09:04:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TE4KOL011460 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:04:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TE3f76026556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:03:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TE3dTe000310; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:03:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9TE3bTe000293 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:03:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 79881 invoked by uid 1005); 29 Oct 2003 14:03:30 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.326752 secs); 29 Oct 2003 14:03:30 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.326752 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 14:03:27 -0000 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:03:27 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20031029090055.J51244-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] sew-on tudor jewels X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Everyone, I just came across a site, http://www.tudorjewels.com , that has replica "ouches" (sewn-on jewels in elaborate gold settings, like the ones you often see on partlets, french hoods, and Tudor gown necklines). Whee! Must buy. Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 09:15:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TEFOOL011478 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:15:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TEEj76027522 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:14:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TEEhTe007493; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:14:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TEEdTe007449 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:14:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f81.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.129]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1E99A4800C9 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:14:38 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001501c39e27$6ec67980$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:17:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] tricorne hat. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try this source, they have a lot of different ones to choose from. http://www.hatcrafters.com/ Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 09:50:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TEoSOL011583 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:50:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TEnl76029978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:49:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TEnlTe029550; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:49:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TEnjTe029492 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:49:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m130.in-tch.com [216.166.191.130]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9TESmc11264 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:28:49 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3F9FD419.EEEA2C75@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:52:09 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] sew-on tudor jewels References: <20031029090055.J51244-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drea Leed, you are an evil, evil woman! Thanks for sharing, and blowing my budget out of the water! --sue Drea Leed wrote: > > Everyone, > > I just came across a site, http://www.tudorjewels.com , that has replica > "ouches" (sewn-on jewels in elaborate gold settings, like the ones you > often see on partlets, french hoods, and Tudor gown necklines). Whee! > Must buy. > > Drea > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 09:51:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TEpfOL011587 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:51:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TEp676000190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:51:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TEp5Te000612; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:51:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TEnwTe029712 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:49:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail23.ureach.com (mailout.ureach.com [172.16.2.83]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA32151 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:49:58 -0500 Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-80-62-96.asm.bellsouth.net [65.80.62.96]) by mail23.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA01562 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:49:57 -0500 Message-ID: <015201c39e2b$ebd05ff0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031029090055.J51244-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] sew-on tudor jewels Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:49:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OMG.... there are "buttons" under Henry VIII which match the ones on the Isabel de Valois partlet!!! Drool...... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drea Leed" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 9:03 AM Subject: [h-cost] sew-on tudor jewels > > Everyone, > > I just came across a site, http://www.tudorjewels.com , that has replica > "ouches" (sewn-on jewels in elaborate gold settings, like the ones you > often see on partlets, french hoods, and Tudor gown necklines). Whee! > Must buy. > > Drea > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 09:52:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TEqoOL011590 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:52:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TEl876029760 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:47:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TEl0Te027728; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TEkvTe027661 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:46:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail21.ureach.com (mail21.ureach.com [172.16.2.81]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA31625 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:46:56 -0500 Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-80-62-96.asm.bellsouth.net [65.80.62.96]) by mail21.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA27684 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:46:56 -0500 Message-ID: <012301c39e2b$7f89de70$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:46:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I use my hem gauge to make knife pleats. I figure out how wide I want it and set the little slider thing there. Then I fold the fabric over it to the slider thing and every one is the same width! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsha J Hamilton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 11:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen > Who knew that all that hot pink linen would be so popular---just not in that > color. > > I bought a bolt of the hideous hot pink linen a few years ago on sale. I ran > it through the washer and dryer, then debated about color remover. Sounded > like too much work, so I risked dyeing it. Used Rit dark plum and it took > beautifully. > > I did have trouble when I tried to dye too large of a length. The crease > line on the fold didn't take the dye evenly. I already rinsed it and ran it > through the dryer before noticing. I later overdyed it using the same Rit > dark plum, and it evened up the color perfectly. I kept the agitator going, > rather than just letting it soak. That made all the difference. I made a > knife pleated skirt with 4.75 yds of it. > > Does anyone know the origin of the phrase "knife pleats"? I assumed it was > because the crease is sharp. I was having a hard time keeping each pleat > the same exact size and shape. So got an old rounded table knife and used > it to fold over the fabric while pinning. It made perfect, even pleats. > I'm self-taught so don't know correct practices but has anyone else ever > made knife pleats using a knife? Is that the origin of the phrase? > > P.S. Robin, thanks for the post on how to set up a dye test. I'm going to > try that next time, rather than crossing my fingers and hope it works. > > Marsha > > --------------------- > > on 10/28/03 9:58 PM, Robin Netherton at robin@shell.nightowl.net wrote: > > >> Ah, the memories of 2001! We had so much of the lime green and hot > >> pink 100% linen (at about $1.44 a yard for most of it!) > > > > I did bleach some of the hot pink down to a nice pale pink, which I'll use > > as a lining for something someday. > > > >> One thing we did find with the 2001 batch was that even though they > >> looked the same, some of the hot pink did not act like they were the > >> same color as other pieces of hot pink. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 09:56:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TEuYOL011598 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:56:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TEto76000574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:55:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TEtmBK003650; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:55:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TEtiBK003571 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:55:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])h9TEtgU9017068 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:55:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031029095447.00bb0790@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:55:50 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] sew-on tudor jewels In-Reply-To: <015201c39e2b$ebd05ff0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> References: <20031029090055.J51244-100000@shell.siscom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO MAN, that just hurts.... and me with no cash to spare. Wow... very nice. Bridgette >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Drea Leed" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 9:03 AM >Subject: [h-cost] sew-on tudor jewels > > > > > > Everyone, > > > > I just came across a site, http://www.tudorjewels.com , that has replica > > "ouches" (sewn-on jewels in elaborate gold settings, like the ones you > > often see on partlets, french hoods, and Tudor gown necklines). Whee! > > Must buy. > > > > Drea Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 10:05:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TF5kOL011632 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:05:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TF5276001526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:05:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TF50BK011389; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TF4MBK010925 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:04:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12465369C0 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:04:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AErrv-0001gU-00 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:04:19 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] On the topic of dyeing... In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031028172148.02985988@64.87.54.245> References: <126.3346f607.2cd06e37@aol.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20031028172148.02985988@64.87.54.245> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:04:19 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko wrote: > I don't do much dyeing, and have basic ideas of the color wheel and all > that. I was trained in business, not art. Anyway, I have a red-burgundy > material, cotton velveteen, that I really want to darken to a more wine > burgundy color. Should I add in blue, purple or a burgundy dye to it? What > would you suggest? I'd add green to mute the colour, then look at what you get and decide whether you want it bluer or not. Choose a green from the bluish end of the spectrum if you think you want to head towards purplish-wine-burgundy rather than muted-dark-red-burgundy. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 10:45:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TFjWOL011705 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:45:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TFik76005222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:44:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TFifOG012210; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:44:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TFicOG012164 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:44:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h9TFibON010547 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:44:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.196.11] (as3-4-25.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.11]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TFiYh7010493 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:44:36 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031028231011.0487d650@mail.frys.com> References: <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass> <000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <4.3.1.2.20031028231011.0487d650@mail.frys.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:41:49 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: stretchy (was Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:24 PM -0800 10/28/03, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >>I haven't been able to find a knit fabric that's close to what I >>see in original hose, because originals were not stretchy. > >Where do you get that information? If they are knitted, they ought >to stretch a little - any knitted fabric has some stretch in it. Some -- but not necessarily as much as you might think. I've been knitting a reproduction of some 13th c. silk gloves, and they have next to no stretch (somewhat to my chagrin, since I'd assumed some when designing the pattern). A certain amount of the stretch in woolen knits comes from stretchiness of the wool yarn itself. A relatively loose knit will also be stretchier than a very tight one. Hose knit very tightly from a non-stretchy fiber will have relatively little give. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 11:09:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TG9vOL011747 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:09:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TG6h76007281 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:06:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TG6e2A001052; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:06:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TG6Z2A000966 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:06:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.162]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:05:53 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: stretchy (was Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:06:32 -0500 Message-ID: <006001c39e36$a2406e60$726453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heather wrote: <> I can give practical support to that statement! I've been knitting a pair of replica 18th century thread (linen) stockings. Not only does the knitted fabric not stretch much at all, but it's difficult to knit because you're so used to yarn having some give. I'm afraid the tension at the tops of my stockings is all crazy because I was experiencing the learning curve. I hadn't remembered that until you posted, Heather. Thanks! Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 11:19:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TGJUOL011754 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:19:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TGIS76008374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:18:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TGIR2A011633; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:18:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TGIO2A011597 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:18:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.31.15.51.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([67.31.15.51] helo=earthlink.net) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AEt1b-000015-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:18:24 -0800 Message-ID: <3F9FE82A.9000505@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:17:46 -0500 From: AF Murphy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sixth Century Saxon References: <3F9939C2.50302@earthlink.net> <003e01c39a43$a93decc0$cb6afea9@shooie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you! I sent him the sites, and he's shared them with others. Anything that helps accuracy... Most of this is a few centuries later, but I guess we do what we can do. I couldn't find anything much earlier. Anne Sheridan & Shane wrote: > > > Hi, > Here are some web sites that I hope will help: > > http://www.angelcynn.org.uk/ > > http://www.florilegium.org/files/CLOTHING/cl-Rom-Brit-art.html > > http://www.rook.org/heritage/german/anglosaxon.html > > http://www.regia.org/ (These are the guys you see in all of the BBC and > History channel shows involving the dark ages) > > > Sheridan > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to > recognize a mistake when you make it again. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 11:20:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TGKgOL011759 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:20:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TGJu76008538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:19:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TGJs2A012842; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:19:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TGJ02A012073 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip206.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.206]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 413BD6A8A8 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:18:58 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:16:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] sew-on tudor jewels Message-ID: <3F9F776E.8799.3D98AE3@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20031029090055.J51244-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I just came across a site, http://www.tudorjewels.com , that has > replica "ouches" (sewn-on jewels in elaborate gold settings, like the > ones you often see on partlets, french hoods, and Tudor gown > necklines). Whee! Must buy. Drea, you are a *Baddddd* woman! These are beautiful. Usually I just use buttons I've found over the years and gotten on sale. Or else earrings and the like from places like TJ Max (on sale, of course.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 12:55:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9THtjOL012057 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:55:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9THsj76018824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:54:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9THsiLL012389; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:54:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from az-awindo1-spam.awin.com (mail.awin.com [65.218.228.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9THsOLM011967 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:54:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from awmail.awin.com (unverified [10.200.20.27]) by az-awindo1-spam.awin.com for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:57:40 -0700 Received: from INET-MTA by awmail.awin.com with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:54:17 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.3 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:54:13 -0700 From: "Tori Ruhl" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9THsOLM011967 Subject: [h-cost] Sew on Tudor Jewels X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello! After lurking for weeks, this is my first official post :) I think these replicas are beautiful, but take into consideration that diamonds were often painted black in portraiture (due to lack of complicated faceting and less light being refracted). So a lot of these replicas that are produced using Onyx are inaccurate. But they do have lovely things! *drool* Victoria Ruhl Jewelry fanatic and wanna-be costumer. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 12:56:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9THuAOL012060 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:56:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9THt18Y018845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:55:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9THoeLL008492; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:50:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from berlinr.sprint.ca (berlinr.sprint.ca [209.5.194.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9THoYLL008406 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:50:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooie ([149.99.68.164]) by berlinr.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031029175032.MYLD2777.berlinr.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:50:32 -0500 Message-ID: <00a801c39e45$0b805e40$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031022160715.53636.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] polar bear trousers, was wool in summer Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:49:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mara Riley" > Polar bear trousers? Sounds intriguing, can you tell us more? > > -- Mara > > --- Sheridan & Shane wrote: > > Heh, > > Winter has its own set of troubles, I have often been tempted to > > make a pair > > of polar bear trousers like the ones in the'Danish Textiles' book. > > ;-) > > > > Sheridan Hi! Sorry it took so long to respond, I just found this post in my in box. Margrethe Halds Ancient Danish Textiles book has some rather interesting garments in it, one of which is a pair of Polar bear trousers found in east Greenland. (Angmagssalik) She uses them as an example of the development of trousers, from when clothing was made from skins to when they were made of fabric. (The materials they were made of dictated the cut, goes the theory) There is also an interesting section on hide garments that includes a Polar bear coat from the same find, and a photo of a small child wearing an entire calfskin formed into a rudimentary coat. (The legs of the skin were used as sleeves) My husband wants me to make him a plain leather coat based on the patterns in the book, I keep threatening to make one of *very* fluffy fun-fur, with the pants. :-) Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 13:08:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TI8VOL012075 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:08:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TI7m76020722 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:07:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TI7fHk024820; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:07:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail1.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9TI7LHk024470 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:07:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 50932 invoked by uid 1005); 29 Oct 2003 18:07:10 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.135904 secs); 29 Oct 2003 18:07:10 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.135904 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 18:07:10 -0000 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:07:11 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sew on Tudor Jewels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031029130629.K51244-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes. I emailed him and asked if he did something other than onyx for the settings. Like garnet...or green colored glass...yum... Drea On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Tori Ruhl wrote: > Hello! > > After lurking for weeks, this is my first official post :) > I think these replicas are beautiful, but take into consideration that diamonds were often painted black in portraiture (due to lack of complicated faceting and less light being refracted). So a lot of these replicas that are produced using Onyx are inaccurate. But they do have lovely things! *drool* > > Victoria Ruhl > Jewelry fanatic and wanna-be costumer. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 13:20:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TIKrOL012161 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:20:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TIK376021865 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:20:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TIK1Hk006129; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TIJvHk006034 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:19:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-101-219.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.101.219]) 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id ALX41456; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:17:29 GMT Message-ID: <00af01c39e49$b95eb9e0$db654ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F9939C2.50302@earthlink.net><003e01c39a43$a93decc0$cb6afea9@shooie> <3F9FE82A.9000505@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sixth Century Saxon Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:23:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO www.maering.co.uk my site 5th C Anglian Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 13:35:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TIZGOL012212 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:35:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TIYO76022952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:34:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TIXelf002461; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:33:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TIXBlf001754 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:33:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from 16-127.tnt-3.harrisburg.supernet.com ([64.41.16.127]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AEv7m-0005Gz-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:32:54 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200310291608.h9TG8e2C002951@net.indra.com> References: <200310291608.h9TG8e2C002951@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:32:48 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-DCC-Misty-Metrics: net.indra.com 1170; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 708 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 9:08 AM -0700 10/29/03, 2 people on h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > >I haven't been able to find a knit fabric that's close to what I see in >>original hose, because originals were not stretchy. > >Where do you get that information? If they are knitted, they ought to >stretch a little - any knitted fabric has some stretch in it. Hi Comments from a 3rd person, who is working on a pair of socks now (Almost ready to start decreasing!!! And it's only 3 days old!!!) The knitting is coming out suprisingly firm, only a little bit stretchy. I don't know if it's because I'm knitting as high a count as possible with this grist of yarn or if it is because of the fine gauge needles??? BUT the sock top fits, now to carefully measure the rest of my leg for the decreases--I thought it would take much longer to get to this stage, but once past the rows of perl then knit ribbing the needles are getting more polished and my fingers seem to be learning the drill. So while a professional sock knitter would have a pair done by now, I think I might just get a pair done in my lifetime . Ta Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 13:42:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TIg1OL012222 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:42:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TIe776023704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:40:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TIdMlf008580; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:39:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TIdClf008341 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:39:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-125-53.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.125.53]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TIcgjp016614 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:38:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031029101337.056a6100@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:16:13 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: stretchy (was Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20031028231011.0487d650@mail.frys.com> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass> <000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <4.3.1.2.20031028231011.0487d650@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>>I haven't been able to find a knit fabric that's close to what I see in >>>original hose, because originals were not stretchy. >> >>Where do you get that information? If they are knitted, they ought to >>stretch a little - any knitted fabric has some stretch in it. > >Hi Carolyn, > > I got that info by looking at lots and lots and lots of 18thC extant > stockings. The knit is dense and tight. I haven't compared it directly > to the stretch in bias cut fabric - I should do that. > > Modern knit fabrics are very stretchy, much more so that the > original stockings. I only question that the period-knit ones "were not stretchy", by which I understood that you were saying they didn't stretch at all. My point is that if they are knitted then surely there must be some stretch in them. Even knitted fabric made of copper wire stretches a little. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 13:51:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TIp3OL012273 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:51:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TIo476025025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:50:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TInSlf019317; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:49:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav46.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TImmlf018659 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:48:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:48:42 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav46.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:48:42 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1a3.1c0ff963.2cd049d6@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:47:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Oct 2003 18:48:42.0343 (UTC) FILETIME=[462B7770:01C39E4D] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >Also with linen, don't dry it in the drier. Iron dry the damp. just spun > >fabric from the washer. Spay starch will crisp it up a little. > >Liquid starch will > >crisp it up a lot. I dry it in the dryer first so that I KNOW it's shrunk as much as it will and that it's able to whitstand the abuse. After that I still put it in the drier, but I stop it just short of being ready. When we bought our iron, we chose the one that produces the most steam, and it's enough to remove all drier creases from linen. It has to be hot enough, though, and that's almost the highest setting the iron can go. I prefer ironing it when dry or almost dry than going through the pain of trying to get it dry by ironing when it's just spun from the washer. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 13:57:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TIvQOL012388 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:57:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TIuY76025867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:56:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TIuCAA026999; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:56:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav54.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TIpelf021742 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:51:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:50:27 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav54.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:50:27 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1a3.1c0ff963.2cd049d6@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:49:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Oct 2003 18:50:27.0398 (UTC) FILETIME=[84C99660:01C39E4D] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Also with linen, don't dry it in the drier. Iron dry the damp. just spun > fabric from the washer. Spay starch will crisp it up a little. Liquid starch will > crisp it up a lot. Also... I like my linen soft, because then it doesn't wrinkle so easily. In fact, wrinkles ease out just with body heat. Wouldn't starch make it hold every single wrinkle? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 14:09:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TJ93OL012636 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:09:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TJ7j76027533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:07:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TJ7iAA010707; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:07:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav14.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TJ7hAA010587 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:07:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:07:37 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav14.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:07:37 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass> <000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <4.3.1.2.20031028231011.0487d650@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: stretchy (was Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:01:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Oct 2003 19:07:37.0447 (UTC) FILETIME=[EABE9770:01C39E4F] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I got that info by looking at lots and lots and lots of 18thC > extant stockings. The knit is dense and tight. I haven't compared > it directly to the stretch in bias cut fabric - I should do that. > > Modern knit fabrics are very stretchy, much moreso that the > original stockings. Even early 20th century stockings - or hose - are much less stretchy than what we're used to (I remember reading about ladies having to be careful how they stood because their nylons had a tendency to sag at the ankle). So it doesn't surprise me that they would be less stretchy than we would expect. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 14:35:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TJZTOL013182 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:35:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TJYO76000195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:34:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TJYLAA005594; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:34:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TJYGAA005428 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:34:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.a4.3e925d72 (3980) for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:33:40 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:33:38 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/29/2003 1:53:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: > I prefer ironing it when dry or almost > dry than going through the pain of trying to get it dry by ironing when it's > just spun from the washer. > This is perfectly understandable. If you have a big hot industrial iron, then a spray bottle with water in it will do the trick. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 14:42:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TJgaOL013333 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:42:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TJab76000453 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:36:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TJaaAA007966; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:36:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TJaXAA007839 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:36:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.ce.3f614cdc (3980) for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:34:50 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:34:48 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/29/2003 2:00:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: > Wouldn't starch make it hold > every single wrinkle? > To starch or not to starch.....depends on what you're using it for. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 14:57:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TJvFOL013537 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:57:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TJuL76002323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:56:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TJuJVg025753; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:56:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from web60310.mail.yahoo.com (web60310.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.118.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9TJuFVg025623 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:56:15 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031029195610.43755.qmail@web60310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.52.135.9] by web60310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:56:10 PST Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:56:10 -0800 (PST) From: Jen Small To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Clocks (was Re: Hose/stockings) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Say, while we're on the subject of stockings, does anyone have resources for embroidered or knit clock patterns for stockings, from the 16th century? --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 15:15:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TKFoOL013740 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:15:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TJ5L76027269 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:05:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TJ5JAA008110; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:05:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav5.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TJ2SAA004799 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:02:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:02:22 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav5.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:02:22 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200310270854.h9R8sioY020698@net.indra.com> <007101c39dad$e9d85dc0$72d2adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: history as a timeline Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:56:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Oct 2003 19:02:22.0687 (UTC) FILETIME=[2F2206F0:01C39E4F] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I find that I have a timeline of costumes, that I can picture, and I > > have to hang events on that. So, I can put composers in the right order > > by the style of wig, or authors by the clothes their characters wear. > > Do other people do that? or am I just strange? Oh don't worry, I do the same thing. This semester I have two literature classes (Middle-ages to mid-17thC), one French (France), one English (England). I realize now that a lot of authors I learned about in high school, I have no idea where they belong because I can't remember the date - but now, I don't so much remember the date as the "clothing century"... Political events, literature, technological advancements, everything is linked in my mind with costume evolution. And it makes sense: social changes are often marked by fashion changes. I can't wait until we get to the 18th and 19th century (next semester). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 16:42:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TLgDOL014151 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:42:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TLcG7Y013208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:40:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TKxHq4024607; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:59:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TKx0q4024249 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.139.2707605c (16111) for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:57:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-m32.webmail.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (v97.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID123-3eef3fa029afde; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:57:19 -0500 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:57:19 -0500 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Request for resources MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2BDA2E2F.63F5C124.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/28/2003 3:26:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, ckbonder@earthlink.net writes: > Help! My local library only seems to have those awful victorian-based costume reference books on medieval and renassance clothing. I was complaining to the librarian and she said that if I could give her a list of the kind of stuff that I really wanted she would give the list to the library board when they decide what non-fiction books to get for next year. > > So, ladies and gentlemen can you take a couple of minutes to email me off-list wittheh name and/or author of historical > costuming refernces that a library ought to have? Or go ahead an answer on the list so that we can recommend them to our libraries as well! Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 16:42:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TLgDOL014150 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:42:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TLcG7a013208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:40:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TKoEVg015814; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:50:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from tyler.snap.net.nz (tyler.snap.net.nz [202.37.101.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TKngVg014981 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:49:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from p235-dialup.snap.net.nz ([202.124.102.235] helo=ajax) by tyler.snap.net.nz with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1 ) id 1AEwJt-00026s-00 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:49:29 +1300 Received: from libre ([192.168.255.21]) by ajax with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 1AExIR-00082d-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:52:03 +1300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Jennifer Geard To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls, a search Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:48:39 +1300 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200310300948.39281.geard@verso.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9TKngVg014981 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi All, I dip into this list when I have time, so I might not have caught up with everything in this thread. Robin wrote: > This confusion didn't originate with Norris. I've seen a couple of > 19th c. sources that present Philippa as being dressed in a sideless > surcote; Norris almost certainly copied from one of them, not from > the original statue. For that matter, Victoria's own costume for her > Plantagenet Ball in 1842 was a sideless surcote of that type, and she > wrote that her designer (the leading costume historian of the 19th > century) copied the design from Philippa's effigy. The effigy itself > is in Westminster, so would have been readily available and > recognizable. I have wondered whether there is another effigy > involved, perhaps moved or lost or re-attributed since then, or if > there's a severe restoration issue. There are a couple of 19th c. > books on effigies I've been intending to track down to determine what > they were seeing and calling "Philippa's" effigy at the time, but I > haven't gotten around to it ... next time I travel to the right rare > book room I'll do that. I _think_ the images of Philippa in a sideless surcote with foliated crown are based on the wall paintings in St Stephen's Chapel, Westminster of Philippa, Edward and their children. The chapel was destroyed by fire in 1834: we're left with drawn copies of the images, but contemporaries of Victoria would have know the originals. There are elements of the drawn copies that are unusual for the time and place, such the shape of the plastrons on the sideless surcotes and the pleated mantles glued onto the surcotes. Because we're dealing with redrawings, we're not really sure how to tell how much is Ruritanian purple feathers syndrome (er, are people familiar with that old SCA article comparing an original source with a re-drawing?). They're still fascinating images. There are sections of the images in grainy B&W in Davenport, and a re-drawing of the re-drawing of the king in Houston's "Medieval Costume in England and France". Cheers, Jennifer Geard _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 16:43:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TLhNOL014169 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:43:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TLga76013720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:42:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TLgZ8J005587; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:42:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TLgN8J005339 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:42:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9TLpfjp020016 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:51:42 -0800 Message-ID: <3FA033B1.4080406@misc.com> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:40:01 -0800 From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] triple velvet? References: <20031028141543.70512.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I sent a query to these folks as to what this textile was and this was their answer: Hello Theresa, Triple velvet is beautiful fabric that is a combination of acetate and nylon. It is not rigid like cotton velvet and is not as drapey as rayon velvet. It has a luxurious texture and depth and is one of out top selling velvets. You are certainly welcome to order swatches of the colors of your choice for $1. each via our website. We hope to provide you support in the near future. Kind Regards, Barb Customer Care Representative df@denverfabrics.com www.denverfabrics.com (Me again) Not sure if much light was shed. The acetate thing makes my skin crawl, not to mention the color migration down the road. Theresa Eacker Mara Riley wrote: > Looking at this -- > > http://www.denverfabrics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=001&Category_Code=TripVel > > What is triple velvet? > > -- Mara > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears > http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 16:48:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TLmrOL014253 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:48:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TLlq76014252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:47:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TLlo8J011112; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:47:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TLll8J011055 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:47:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fa5.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.165]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7261647FF48 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:47:46 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001f01c39e66$c445afe0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:51:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] replying posts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. I have noticed, that if i reply a post on this list, my post dont get back to me. I could do that a month ago. Has anybody else had this problem? What is going on. It is the same with other lists i am on. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 16:54:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TLsNOL014331 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:54:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TLrC76014862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:53:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TLrB8J016421; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:53:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TLr78J016336 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:53:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fa5.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.165]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A5A6C2629B8 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:53:02 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002501c39e67$80fc62f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031028141543.70512.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> <3FA033B1.4080406@misc.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] triple velvet? Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:56:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. Apropos this topic. When i was at that wonderfull silk fabric shop where i buyed my silk duchesse satin, they showed me a taffeta that was much finer in quality than i have seen before. They told me it was called a special name, but i dont remember the name anymore. Does anybody know? Was it doubble taffeta? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Theresa Eacker" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] triple velvet? > I sent a query to these folks as to what this textile was and this was > their answer: > > Hello Theresa, > > Triple velvet is beautiful fabric that is a combination of acetate and > nylon. It is not rigid like cotton velvet and is not as drapey as rayon > velvet. It has a luxurious texture and depth and is one of out top > selling velvets. You are certainly welcome to order swatches of the > colors of your choice for $1. each via our website. > > We hope to provide you support in the near future. > > Kind Regards, > Barb > Customer Care Representative > df@denverfabrics.com > www.denverfabrics.com > > (Me again) Not sure if much light was shed. The acetate thing makes my > skin crawl, not to mention the color migration down the road. > > Theresa Eacker > > > Mara Riley wrote: > > Looking at this -- > > > > http://www.denverfabrics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=00 1&Category_Code=TripVel > > > > What is triple velvet? > > > > -- Mara > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears > > http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 17:13:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TMDwOL014605 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:13:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TMCm76016844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:12:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TMCjvB005770; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:12:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav12.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TMCfvB005630 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:12:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:12:35 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav12.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:12:35 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031029195610.43755.qmail@web60310.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clocks (was Re: Hose/stockings) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:11:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Oct 2003 22:12:35.0928 (UTC) FILETIME=[C1F46580:01C39E69] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Say, while we're on the subject of stockings, does anyone have resources for embroidered or knit clock patterns for stockings, from the 16th century? Well... there's this site http://www.dabbler.com/ndlwrk/stocking.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 17:29:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TMTtOL014625 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:29:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TMT676018383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:29:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TMT1vB020984; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:29:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web9404.mail.yahoo.com (web9404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9TMSvvB020911 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:28:58 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031029222857.63005.qmail@web9404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.76.80.74] by web9404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:28:57 PST Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:28:57 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] sew-on tudor jewels To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031029090055.J51244-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dra, you evil ( but wonderful) , person!! I've been lusting after these sorts of items ever since I started costumning (30 some odd years ago!) Great to see that someone is reproducing these designs----even if all I can afford to do is drool all over the pictures, right now:( Albra Drea Leed wrote: Everyone, I just came across a site, http://www.tudorjewels.com , that has replica "ouches" (sewn-on jewels in elaborate gold settings, like the ones you often see on partlets, french hoods, and Tudor gown necklines). Whee! Must buy. Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 17:36:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TMaNOL014655 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:36:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TMZQ76019010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:35:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TMZPvB026728; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:35:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from colossus.systems.pipex.net (colossus.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TMZLvB026598 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:35:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from bella (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151]) by colossus.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A3B0E16000449 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:35:15 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <007f01c39e6c$e9023b40$97725651@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bobbin lace (and weaving) books Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:35:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are quite a lot of old books, catalogues, magazine articles and so on, on lace and lacemaking available at http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/lace.html which have been scanned for general use. Many are from early in the last century, but there are also a lot from the nineteenth century, and at least one item from 1802. (There are also many similar scanned works on weaving and textiles at http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/books.html#L which may be of interest.) Linda Walton. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 18:45:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TNj4OL014941 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:45:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TNi576025349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:44:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TNi2fd026153; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.yesdesigngroup.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TNhxfd026108 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:43:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.161.6] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AFFC55201C6; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:40:44 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200310282122.35610.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <1a3.1c0ff963.2cd049d6@aol.com> <200310282122.35610.cathy@thyrsus.com> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:25:58 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cathy Raymond asks: >On Tuesday 28 October 2003 05:52 pm, Rima wrote: >> >Also with linen, don't dry it in the drier. Iron dry the damp. just spun >> >fabric from the washer. Spay starch will crisp it up a little. >> >Liquid starch will >> >crisp it up a lot. >> >> OTOH, if you want to make your linen silky soft and drapey, take it >> out of the washer, fold it up, and stick it in the FREEZER. When >> it's a solid block, take it out and iron it with a really hot iron. > >Uh, before or after you get it thawed enough to unfold? :-) Yep. I know it sounds crazy.... use the iron to start thawing it. It really does work. Just put a good movie on your DVD and iron patiently... Rima DVD player is the best accessory I have for my sewing machine! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 18:47:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TNloOL014951 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:47:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TNk876025523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:46:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TNk7fd027880; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:46:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.yesdesigngroup.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TNhxfd026121 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.161.6] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AFFD55201C6; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:40:45 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:29:23 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Does anyone know the origin of the phrase "knife pleats"? I assumed it was >because the crease is sharp. I was having a hard time keeping each pleat >the same exact size and shape. So got an old rounded table knife and used >it to fold over the fabric while pinning. It made perfect, even pleats. >I'm self-taught so don't know correct practices but has anyone else ever >made knife pleats using a knife? Is that the origin of the phrase? > >P.S. Robin, thanks for the post on how to set up a dye test. I'm going to >try that next time, rather than crossing my fingers and hope it works. > >Marsha Me! Me! Also self-taught.... but stuff like this just makes sense.... Rulers work great too, for wider pleats... Rima love those multi-tasker tools ;-D _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 18:51:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TNpTOL014969 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:51:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TNlR76025635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:47:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TNlPfd028837; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:47:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.yesdesigngroup.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TNi1fd026143 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.161.6] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AFFE55201C6; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:40:46 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20031029090055.J51244-100000@shell.siscom.net> References: <20031029090055.J51244-100000@shell.siscom.net> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:32:41 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] sew-on tudor jewels Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Everyone, > >I just came across a site, http://www.tudorjewels.com , that has replica >"ouches" (sewn-on jewels in elaborate gold settings, like the ones you >often see on partlets, french hoods, and Tudor gown necklines). Whee! >Must buy. > >Drea Oh, thanks a LOT! ;-/ My credit card just spontaneously combusted. ;-D Rima in BIG trouble now! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 18:55:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9TNtaOL014981 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:55:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TNsr76026314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:54:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TNsqfd004666; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:54:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9TNsofd004602 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:54:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from 204.127.135.59 ([204.127.135.59]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2003102923544411200kp1iue>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:54:44 +0000 Received: from [167.88.200.30] by 204.127.135.59; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:54:44 +0000 From: mmcnealy@att.net To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:54:44 +0000 Message-Id: <102920032354.77.1b3a@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 10 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: bW1jbmVhbHlAYXR0Lm5ldA== Subject: [h-cost] Moire silk source X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone have a good online source for moire silk? -Marion _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 19:27:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9U0RLOL015032 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:27:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U0KR76028251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:20:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U0KPwI022238; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:20:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.yesdesigngroup.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U0KKwI022186 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:20:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.161.6] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A88210A021A; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:17:06 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <102920032354.77.1b3a@att.net> References: <102920032354.77.1b3a@att.net> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:17:46 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moire silk source Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Does anyone have a good online source for moire silk? > >-Marion Well, I was gonna send you to http://www.silkconnection.com/products/fabric/silk/ , but I'm shocked to see that they don't have a moire! OTOH, they have just about everything else at pretty good prices (by the bolt) and everything ready for dying.... Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 19:38:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9U0cvOL015065 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:38:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U0aQ76029590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:36:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U0aNwI002934; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:36:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail10.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail10.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U0aIwJ002865 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:36:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) h9U1aHHP009302 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 20:36:18 -0500 Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.46.254]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:36:15 -0600 From: "A.Thurman" To: "Historic Costume List \(E-mail\)" Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:36:09 -0500 Message-ID: <020501c39e6d$0d4d75f0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Subject: [h-cost] re: tudorjewels.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drea, you ARE bad - pretty pretty! I notice on the Pewter Replicas order form that he does special orders - think he'd consider adding dress hooks to his repertoire? Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 19:50:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9U0okOL015106 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:50:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U0lb76000571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:47:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U0lXwI009263; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:47:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U0lWwI009250 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:47:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from 16-119.tnt-3.harrisburg.supernet.com ([64.41.16.119] helo=[64.41.16.127]) by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AF0yJ-0000K9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:47:32 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200310300022.h9U0LnwK023213@net.indra.com> References: <200310300022.h9U0LnwK023213@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:47:24 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: 16th cent clocks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 5:22 PM -0700 10/29/03, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >Say, while we're on the subject of stockings, does anyone have >resources for embroidered or knit clock patterns for stockings, from >the 16th century Hi The Plymouth Plantation booklet put out by the Mass Weavers Guild has a clock pattern. The guage of the knitting is 5 stitches to the inch...so I'm not sure if the clocks are an adaptation or a accurate pattern. Hopefully those that are much more familiar with socks n clocks can comment. Ta Carol, row 57!!! Yeah!!! So how deep does the bit that folds over the garter need to be?? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 20:14:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9U1EnOL015258 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 20:14:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U1Du76002278 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:13:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U1Dsr1023501; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:13:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U1Dqr1023470 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:13:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNJ007A4Q2JVR@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:13:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:56:48 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] tricorn hat? In-reply-to: <200310291143.h9TBhMj12615@gw.retro.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031029165305.029a06a0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:43 AM 10/29/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Anyway, I put the garment shell on to try out the fit and see what it'd >look like with my knee-high buckle boots. And the thought that came to my >head was, "With a poufy shirt and a tricorn hat, I could be the Music Pirate, >dread scourge of the RIAA!" I may have to do this costume sometime. But >I wanted the tricorn hat *before* I got this idea. I just love weird and >lavishly trimmed hats. Oh my goodness!! I want to see pics of this when you are done. My hubby would just enjoy it! He is so anti-RIAA, and he doesn't even download music, just on the principle of the whole thing. And I know of a guy at faire who steams tricorn hats from what seems like nicely felted bases. Check with him. The Hat Matters Co. Thern Martenson, Proprietor 485 Chelsea Drive, Henderson, NV 89014 (702) 433-6002 He doesn't have a web site or email address listed on his card, sorry. But he is a really nice guy, so if you can't find anything online, give him a phone call. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 20:18:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9U1I2OL015264 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 20:18:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U1EN76002316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:14:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U1ENr1023811; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:14:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U1Dqr3023470 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:13:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNJ007A4Q2JVR@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:13:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:07:16 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] On the topic of dyeing... In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031029170604.02973ff8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031028172148.02985988@64.87.54.245> <126.3346f607.2cd06e37@aol.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20031028172148.02985988@64.87.54.245> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:04 AM 10/29/2003 -0500, you wrote: >I'd add green to mute the colour, then look at what you get and decide >whether you want it bluer or not. Choose a green from the bluish end of >the spectrum if you think you want to head towards >purplish-wine-burgundy rather than muted-dark-red-burgundy. > >K. Thank you Kirrily, I appreciate the suggestion. I have been going back and forth on if I want it a deep red burgundy, or more a purplish one. I think those test pots will be the answer. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 20:18:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9U1I8OL015267 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 20:18:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U1ET76002330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:14:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U1ESr1023852; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:14:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U1Dqr7023470 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:13:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNJ007A4Q2JVR@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:13:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:13:48 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] triple velvet? In-reply-to: <3FA033B1.4080406@misc.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031029171144.00b0cd20@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20031028141543.70512.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:40 PM 10/29/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Hello Theresa, > >Triple velvet is beautiful fabric that is a combination of acetate and >nylon. It is not rigid like cotton velvet and is not as drapey as rayon >velvet. It has a luxurious texture and depth and is one of out top >selling velvets. You are certainly welcome to order swatches of the >colors of your choice for $1. each via our website. > >We hope to provide you support in the near future. Hi Theresa, It sounds like so much marketing hype to me. I have never found acetate and nylon velvets to be good for anything clothing based. I was hoping it was more like the shaggy velvet I saw at Hancock's recently, which would be interesting as a fur-like trimming, if it hadn't come in a bright pink. ah well, I guess we keep on looking. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 20:25:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9U1P4OL015290 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 20:25:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U1EE76002295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:14:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U1EDr1023647; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:14:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U1Dqr5023470 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:13:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNJ007A4Q2JVR@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:13:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:10:32 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sew on Tudor Jewels In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031029170727.029a0d30@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:54 AM 10/29/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Hello! > >After lurking for weeks, this is my first official post :) >I think these replicas are beautiful, but take into consideration that >diamonds were often painted black in portraiture (due to lack of >complicated faceting and less light being refracted). So a lot of these >replicas that are produced using Onyx are inaccurate. But they do have >lovely things! *drool* > >Victoria Ruhl >Jewelry fanatic and wanna-be costumer. Hi Victoria, Welcome to the group! I had wondered the same thing as you. I would love to have them in a crystal or CZ or something, but it is so hard to find the right cut in modern stones. I have been searching Fire Mountain gems trying to find something suitable, and other than a cabochon or an upside down emerald cut, I am not sure what would work. But at least I now have a great site to understand the jewelry from, and hope that the owners answer Drea's question in the affirmative. I have been wanting the jewels for Jane Seymour's style for many years, and now they may be in reach. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 20:30:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9U1UWOL015326 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 20:30:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U1Mo76002833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:22:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U1Mnr1028199; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:22:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta4-svc.business.ntl.com (mta4-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U1Mfr1028113 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:22:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from Imedia5043 ([80.1.9.209]) by mta4-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20031030012240.ONV21751.mta4-svc.business.ntl.com@Imedia5043> for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 01:22:40 +0000 Message-ID: <002f01c39e84$4ad4d640$d1090150@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" References: <020501c39e6d$0d4d75f0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: tudorjewels.com Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 01:22:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Steve Milligan whose site this is is an excellent craftsman I have had the Garnet & pearl cross illustrated for several years now as have many re-enactors here in the UK. Btw if you are wanting dress hooks, buckles or other special metal orders it may be worth contacting Andrew Clark at www.militarymetalwork.co.uk as he produces one offs and is now doing earlier periods although these aren't really shown on his site yet I buy everything I need from him Dawn Ages Of Elegance makers of historical clothing, uniforms and bridalwear http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.Thurman" To: "Historic Costume List (E-mail)" Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 10:36 PM Subject: [h-cost] re: tudorjewels.com > Drea, you ARE bad - pretty pretty! > > I notice on the Pewter Replicas order form that he does special orders - > think he'd consider adding dress hooks to his repertoire? > > Allison T. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 20:51:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9U1pVOL015488 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 20:51:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U1gC76003898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:42:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U1gAr1008238; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:42:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13407.mail.yahoo.com (web13407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9U1g8r1008213 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:42:08 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031030014207.75871.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.49.7.219] by web13407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:42:07 PST Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:42:07 -0800 (PST) From: Mara Riley To: FandIWomen List , H-Costume , 18thCWoman List <18cWoman@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Stays Fitting/Gown Draping Workshop, January 17-18, 2004 at Old Bedford Village X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey, folks, I'm going to be doing a weekend workshop on fitting stays and draping gowns at Old Bedford Village the weekend of January 17-18. That's a three-day weekend, so hopefully people will find that convenient. Information at: http://www.marariley.net/workshops/flyer.pdf Regards, Mara __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 21:03:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9U230OL015512 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:03:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U1sx76004875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:54:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U1svr1015900; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:54:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U1ssr1015819 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:54:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AEDDAF70022; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:52:29 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AED940017E; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:52:25 -0600 Message-ID: <017001c39e88$925216a0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001f01c39e66$c445afe0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] replying posts Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 20:53:08 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, You might want to check your settings for the list. That is one of the options. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 29 23:36:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9U4aMOL015820 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:36:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U4ZR76013918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:35:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U4ZMVU004157; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:35:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U4ZGVU004109 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:35:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.249.181.87] (pool181-84.patriot.net [209.249.181.84]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9U4ZBwP011420 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:35:13 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <20031029195610.43755.qmail@web60310.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:34:54 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clocks (was Re: Hose/stockings) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Say, while we're on the subject of stockings, does anyone have resources >for embroidered or knit clock patterns for stockings, from the 16th century? The dabbler page is based on the Gunnister hose, which are 17thC. There's a German stocking history page, and I have some of the URLs below. Many of the extant stockings shown are in English museums - I recognize them also from Jeremy Farrell's _Socks & Stockings_. Some are early 17thC, and one pair may be late 16thC. There's not a lot prior to the 17thC that I can find as far as clocking designs go. http://www.deutsches-strumpfmuseum.de/geschichte/geschichte_07.htm Yellow stockings approx. 1600-1620, in the Nottingham Costume Museum http://www.deutsches-strumpfmuseum.de/geschichte/geschichte_08.htm Gold silk and gold & silver metal thread, late 16th or early 17thC. Gussets are defined, but no clicking around the gusset - there's an overall pattern to the stockings. http://www.deutsches-strumpfmuseum.de/geschichte/geschichte_09.htm Boothose (with the wide tops) 1650 - 80, V&A Museum B&W folded stocking, mid-17thC Salmon colored stockings, embroidered, 17thC ? Linen bias cut cloth stockings, mid 17thC Pink stockings, embroidered, 17thC ? Farrell's book includes a portrait of Richard Sackville, 3rd Earl of Dorset, painted 1613. He has very elaborate embroidered clocking on his white stockings. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 00:00:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9U501OL015872 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 00:00:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U4xJ76015335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:59:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U4xHZI016437; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:59:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U4xDZJ016397 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:59:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9U4xWOS029210 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:59:33 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9U4xW3d029208 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:59:32 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:59:32 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <1a3.1c0ff963.2cd049d6@aol.com> <200310282122.35610.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310292359.32436.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 29 October 2003 06:25 pm, Rima wrote: > Cathy Raymond asks: > >On Tuesday 28 October 2003 05:52 pm, Rima wrote: > >> >Also with linen, don't dry it in the drier. Iron dry the damp. just > >> > spun fabric from the washer. Spay starch will crisp it up a little. > >> > Liquid starch will > >> >crisp it up a lot. > >> > >> OTOH, if you want to make your linen silky soft and drapey, take it > >> out of the washer, fold it up, and stick it in the FREEZER. When > >> it's a solid block, take it out and iron it with a really hot iron. > > > >Uh, before or after you get it thawed enough to unfold? :-) > > Yep. I know it sounds crazy.... use the iron to start thawing it. > It really does work. Just put a good movie on your DVD and iron > patiently... Thanks. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 00:55:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9U5tLOL015929 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 00:55:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U5s076017941 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:54:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U5rvZI012250; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:53:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U5rsZI012229 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:53:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.249.181.87] (pool181-8.patriot.net [209.249.181.8]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9U5rpwP024087 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 00:53:53 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <200310300022.h9U0LnwK023213@net.indra.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 00:53:35 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: [h-cost] Re: 16th cent clocks Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >At 5:22 PM -0700 10/29/03, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >>Say, while we're on the subject of stockings, does anyone have >>resources for embroidered or knit clock patterns for stockings, >>from the 16th century > >Hi >The Plymouth Plantation booklet put out by the Mass Weavers Guild >has a clock pattern. The guage of the knitting is 5 stitches to the >inch...so I'm not sure if the clocks are an adaptation or a accurate >pattern. Hopefully those that are much more familiar with socks n >clocks can comment. Hi Carol, The Plymouth Plantation pattern is also based on the Gunnister hose. Most of the items in the book are patterned at a larger gauge than the originals, adapted for the modern knitter. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 01:16:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9U6GmOL015959 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 01:16:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U6G476019376 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:16:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U6G3UK024750; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:16:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9U6FxUK024722 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.31.68.242.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([67.31.68.242] helo=earthlink.net) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AF66A-0005jL-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:15:58 -0800 Message-ID: <3FA0AC79.1010103@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 01:15:21 -0500 From: AF Murphy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sixth Century Saxon References: <3F9939C2.50302@earthlink.net><003e01c39a43$a93decc0$cb6afea9@shooie> <3F9FE82A.9000505@earthlink.net> <00af01c39e49$b95eb9e0$db654ed5@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks! Hey, we're in the right century! Anne Melanie Wilson wrote: > www.maering.co.uk my site 5th C Anglian > > Mel > > This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received > it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose > the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of > this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the > Company, unless specifically stated. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 07:38:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9UCcsOL023426 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:38:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UCc476003733 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Oct 2003 05:38:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UCc1j3023868; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 05:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UCbxj3023847 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 05:37:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.111] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A4BE273200C6; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:31:58 -0500 Message-ID: <005401c39ee3$43ebd680$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:42:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One of the best gadgets I've found for accurate pleat (or button hole ) marking is an expandable measuring device found in the Clotilda notions catalogue. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rima" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen > >Does anyone know the origin of the phrase "knife pleats"? I assumed it was > >because the crease is sharp. I was having a hard time keeping each pleat > >the same exact size and shape. So got an old rounded table knife and used > >it to fold over the fabric while pinning. It made perfect, even pleats. > >I'm self-taught so don't know correct practices but has anyone else ever > >made knife pleats using a knife? Is that the origin of the phrase? > > > >P.S. Robin, thanks for the post on how to set up a dye test. I'm going to > >try that next time, rather than crossing my fingers and hope it works. > > > >Marsha > > Me! Me! > > Also self-taught.... but stuff like this just makes sense.... Rulers > work great too, for wider pleats... > > Rima > love those multi-tasker tools ;-D > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 09:44:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9UEiuOL023749 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:44:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UEiA76011410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:44:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UEi8dL020579; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:44:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail1.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9UEi6dL020551 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:44:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 20318 invoked by uid 1005); 30 Oct 2003 14:43:39 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.153877 secs); 30 Oct 2003 14:43:39 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.153877 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 2003 14:43:38 -0000 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:43:40 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: tudorjewels.com In-Reply-To: <020501c39e6d$0d4d75f0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Message-ID: <20031030094248.R70366-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Would be cool if he did...I approached Raymond's quiet press about making replica dress hooks a while back, and never did hear back from him. Thanks for jogging my memory. I'll have to check with him. Drea On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, A.Thurman wrote: > Drea, you ARE bad - pretty pretty! > > I notice on the Pewter Replicas order form that he does special orders - > think he'd consider adding dress hooks to his repertoire? > > Allison T. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 10:16:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9UFGJOL023795 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:16:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UFEI76013716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:14:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UFEFfe008869; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:14:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UFEAfe008818 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:14:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bed9.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.217]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 61C19262A46 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:14:09 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <005201c39ef8$ff612360$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <102920032354.77.1b3a@att.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moire silk source Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:17:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. As far as i have found out, real silk moire is not made any more. You can only get man made fiber moire today. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 12:54 AM Subject: [h-cost] Moire silk source > Does anyone have a good online source for moire silk? > > -Marion > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 10:39:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9UFd5OL023823 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:39:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UFc276016184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:38:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UFbufe026331; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:37:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UFblfe026165 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:37:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from uvm.edu (ip093035.uvm.edu [132.198.93.35]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UFbiv7017475 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:37:45 -0500 Message-ID: <3FA13044.4010600@uvm.edu> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:37:40 -0500 From: Hope Greeenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <102920032354.77.1b3a@att.net> <005201c39ef8$ff612360$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <005201c39ef8$ff612360$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] silk taffeta source X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone have a source for heavy silk taffeta? I've tried Thai and Rupert, Gibb.,etc. but am looking for something that is about as stiff as heavy acetete taffeta. - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 10:54:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9UFstOL023873 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:54:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UFs476017706 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:54:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UFrxfe008271; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:53:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UFrsfe008200 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:53:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04860 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:18:02 -0600 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:18:02 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk taffeta source In-Reply-To: <3FA13044.4010600@uvm.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Hope Greeenberg wrote: > Does anyone have a source for heavy silk taffeta? I've tried Thai and > Rupert, Gibb.,etc. but am looking for something that is about as stiff > as heavy acetete taffeta. Some of the stuff I've seen at Fashion Fabrics' retail store is pretty stiff. The website has some taffeta: http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/home/catalog_items.cfm?Query=silk+taffeta+100%25 Prices are great -- around $7.50 to $10/yard for 100% silk taffeta. However, there's no way to tell from the description how stiff it is, and the people who answer the phones at the online store aren't usually on top of the fabric. I'd suggest you call Cathy at the retail store, which will have a different selection from the website, and she knows every bolt. These will be one-of-a-kind bolts, some short, some longer, and once it's gone it's gone. Her number is 314-872-1819. Tell her exactly what you need (be prepared to state color preferences) and that you'd like to buy it over the phone and have it shipped. (And tell her I sent you.) I don't think she'll do swatches, but she can describe what's there at any given moment. She is often manning the shop alone, so if she's busy with a customer, offer to call back later, and once you've told her what you're looking for, offer to call back again after she's had a time to look. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 11:00:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9UG0pOL023900 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:00:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UG0576018374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:00:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UG04Iv013074; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:00:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UG01Iv012989 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip13.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.13]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29DB26DA7A for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:59:58 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:00:03 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] tricorn hat? Message-ID: <3FA0C503.10894.8F09801@localhost> Priority: normal References: <200310291143.h9TBhMj12615@gw.retro.com> In-reply-to: <5.2.1.1.0.20031029165305.029a06a0@64.87.54.245> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > And I know of a guy at faire who steams tricorn hats from what seems > like nicely felted bases. Check with him. > > The Hat Matters Co. > Thern Martenson, Proprietor > 485 Chelsea Drive, Henderson, NV 89014 > (702) 433-6002 > > He doesn't have a web site or email address listed on his card, sorry. > But he is a really nice guy, so if you can't find anything online, > give him a phone call. Thern is a very good source. He used to have a website but it got cybersquatted. The person who currently calls herself "Hat Matters" is *not* Thern. Thern is a professional hatter. I've worked with him at some events. (He's not doing so much on site steaming, but an order would be a different story. Needs a proper hat size, as he tends not to do "generics.") Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 13:19:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9UIJxOL024331 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:19:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UIIm76003049 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:18:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UIIYoj012855; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:18:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UII5oj012376 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:18:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from alfalfapress.com (12-241-217-228.client.attbi.com [12.241.217.228]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9UIHvS27121 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:17:57 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:23:54 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <005401c39ee3$43ebd680$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> Message-Id: <37E0C00F-0B06-11D8-92C8-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [h-cost] pleating... was: overdyeing commercial linen X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I just got done cartridge pleating my Snow White dress (Yes, excessive but it's a trial run before cut into the GOOD fabric for my Moretto gown, and hey, I get to use the dress for Halloween. lol). I used quarter inch gingham to face the pleated edge and then use the gingham as a guide. Worked like a dream and it gives a nice weight to the cartridge pleats. Althea On Thursday, October 30, 2003, at 04:42 AM, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > One of the best gadgets I've found for accurate pleat (or button hole ) > marking is an expandable measuring device found in the Clotilda notions > catalogue. > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rima" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 6:29 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] overdyeing commercial linen > > >>> Does anyone know the origin of the phrase "knife pleats"? I assumed >>> it > was >>> because the crease is sharp. I was having a hard time keeping each >>> pleat >>> the same exact size and shape. So got an old rounded table knife and > used >>> it to fold over the fabric while pinning. It made perfect, even >>> pleats. >>> I'm self-taught so don't know correct practices but has anyone else >>> ever >>> made knife pleats using a knife? Is that the origin of the phrase? >>> >>> P.S. Robin, thanks for the post on how to set up a dye test. I'm >>> going > to >>> try that next time, rather than crossing my fingers and hope it >>> works. >>> >>> Marsha >> >> Me! Me! >> >> Also self-taught.... but stuff like this just makes sense.... Rulers >> work great too, for wider pleats... >> >> Rima >> love those multi-tasker tools ;-D >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 14:01:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9UJ14OL024486 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:01:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UIxtcC003004; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:59:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UIxsW4019058; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:59:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from nycsmtp4out-eri0.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp4out-eri0.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UIxpW4019013 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:59:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from Martha (24-90-83-116.nyc.rr.com [24.90.83.116]) 1.0) with SMTP id h9UIxncx014382 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:59:50 -0500 (EST) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:59:57 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: <200310301538.h9UFcIfg026586@net.indra.com> Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Re. silk taffeta X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hope I get a lot of silk taffeta at B&J in New York. They don't have a web site yet, but if you call them, they'll send swatches. They're always very pleasant. (212) 354-8150. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 14:58:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9UJwOOL024606 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:58:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UJvhcC008725; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:57:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UJvfS9007032; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:57:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UJvRS9006837 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:57:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78A2136CB3 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:57:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AFIv8-0004iN-00 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:57:26 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clocks (was Re: Hose/stockings) In-Reply-To: <20031029195610.43755.qmail@web60310.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031029195610.43755.qmail@web60310.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:57:26 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In lists.sca.h-costume, you wrote: > Say, while we're on the subject of stockings, does anyone have resources for embroidered or knit clock patterns for stockings, from the 16th century? I know one person in the SCA who has recreated Eleanor of Toledo's red stockings, and I know she's also knitted hose with clock patterning. She might have the details. Her details are here: http://www.sca.org.au/laurels/biogs/margie/margie.htm I have another friend who was laurelled mostly for SCA period knitting, her details are here: http://www.sca.org.au/laurels/biogs/rohese/rohese.htm I figure their email addresses are publicly available, so feel free to drop them a line and ask them. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 15:18:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9UKI1OL024660 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:18:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UK75cC009474; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:07:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UK72S9014614; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:07:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UK6wS9014510 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:06:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from 204.127.135.75 ([204.127.135.75]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <200310302006531130084ccie>; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:06:53 +0000 Received: from [167.88.200.30] by 204.127.135.75; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:06:51 +0000 From: mmcnealy@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moire silk source Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:06:51 +0000 Message-Id: <103020032006.11883.30c@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 9 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: bW1jbmVhbHlAYXR0Lm5ldA== X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well darn! Then, I guess I will just go with silk taffeta instead of moire, as making a 16th century dress out of poly or acetate is not personally acceptable. In case your wondering what the project is, go here. http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/d/durer/2/11/2/01dresse.html Close up, http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/d/durer/2/11/2/01dresse.jpg You can see the wattered silk of the dress by the hem of her cloak. -Marion > Hi. > As far as i have found out, real silk moire is not made any more. > You can only get man made fiber moire today. > > Bjarne > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 12:54 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Moire silk source > > > > Does anyone have a good online source for moire silk? > > > > -Marion > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 16:25:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ULPFOL024794 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:25:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ULNpcC017027; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:23:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ULNa8H020886; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:23:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ULNJ8H020703 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:23:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from 17-159.tnt-3.harrisburg.supernet.com ([64.41.17.159] helo=[64.41.16.127]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AFKGF-0005Ef-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:23:20 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200310301901.h9UJ1IW6020232@net.indra.com> References: <200310301901.h9UJ1IW6020232@net.indra.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:23:11 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: derby ribs/height of socks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi I got the caption of the 1750 (the year is spot on...) English socks from the sock museum page and ran it thru a Babble fish site... >To the simple cloth skirt, close knee trousers were carried for the >frack, instead of fine silk socks carried one "derby ribs" - serrated >Woll or cotton socks, which underlined the simplicity of the new >clothes. English "derby ribs" serrated cotton socks around 1750 OK so from this and the accompanying picture, there were ribbed socks??? Was this a local fashion or did it make it across the Pond?? Also how high up on the thigh did 1750-1790 SE PA area socks come?? I really thought it would take me lots longer to knit this far, but now they are over the knee and almost down to where they need to do the leg decrease. I'm guessing maybe a hands breadth up the thigh looking at the pictures... which gets it over the knee 'bump'... Thanks for all the help! ta Carol, with a knee warmer rapidly turning into a sock! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 16:31:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ULV1OL024820 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:31:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ULSgcC017553; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:28:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ULSf8H025542; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:28:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ULSc8H025499 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:28:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08280 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:52:48 -0600 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:52:48 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moire silk source In-Reply-To: <103020032006.11883.30c@att.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 mmcnealy@att.net wrote: > Well darn! Then, I guess I will just go with silk taffeta instead of > moire, as making a 16th century dress out of poly or acetate is not > personally acceptable. When I've absolutely needed a moire to reproduce a period image, I've used rayon moire. Rayon is not plastic like poly; it's a processed natural fiber that was designed to be a silk substitute. In most aspects (the notable exception being strength/durability) it makes a decent facsimile. It will breathe and drape like silk. Rayon brocades also make reasonable substitutes for now-unavailable silk brocades. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 16:46:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ULkTOL024847 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:46:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ULjgcC019445; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:45:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ULjf8H011145; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:45:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ULja8I011076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:45:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.8/Submit) id h9ULjaKm011075 for h-costume@net.indra.com; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:45:36 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:45:36 -0700 From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-ID: <20031030214535.GC23877@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] free shipping on Dover books (US only) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Place an order of $50 or more by December 18th and Dover will give you free shipping. http://www.doverpublications.com/holidayfreeship4/ To take advantage of this free shipping offer, just drop the following code number in box 2 of their check-out screen: EHP-227 Your order must total at least $50 and you must select standard shipping to a U.S. address. Orders with free shipping will take longer to deliver than orders using their paid shipping method (which you can still use if you want faster delivery). This free shipping offer applies to every one of their 8,000 titles. ...eliz -- "How old would you be if you didn't know how old you were?" -Satchel Page _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 16:51:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9ULpVOL024865 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:51:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ULoicC020022; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:50:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ULog8H015643; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:50:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ULoN8H015404 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:50:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-125-53.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.125.53]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ULoEfW007072 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:50:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031030130227.0575da60@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:25:30 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clocks (was Re: Hose/stockings) In-Reply-To: <20031029195610.43755.qmail@web60310.mail.yahoo.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Say, while we're on the subject of stockings, does anyone have resources >for embroidered or knit clock patterns for stockings, from the 16th century? I'd go first to Rutt's book on the history of hand knitting, second to Davenport's costume book, and third to one of those repro 16th century embroidery/needlework books. Some older patterned-stocking designs use patterns made of knit and purl stitches only, rather than any of the more complicated stitches. Also, I think that duplicate stitch is period for decorating clocks on stockings, but I can't support this assumption off the top of my head. Remember to chart knitting on wide-rectangle-grid paper rather than regular squared paper, as knit stitches are wider than they are tall. (There used to be some freeware or shareware knitting-pattern-generating software using suitable rectangular grids.) OT - The knitting book "Tap-Dancing Lizards" has many fun one-color-on-background images charted on rectangular grids, even tho none of these are actually period designs. The same folks put out another similar book (which, of course, I can't find when I look) with designs inspired by Celtic, Pagan, and other religious and cultural traditions, also lots of fun but not period to knit into socks. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 17:01:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9UM1lOL024895 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:01:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UM0CcC021036; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:00:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UM0Bw2023548; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:00:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UM08w2023491 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:00:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-125-53.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.125.53]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UM07fS019140 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:00:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031030135628.04f19cb0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:59:57 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: derby ribs/height of socks In-Reply-To: References: <200310301901.h9UJ1IW6020232@net.indra.com> <200310301901.h9UJ1IW6020232@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Also how high up on the thigh did 1750-1790 SE PA area socks come?? I >really thought it would take me lots longer to knit this far, but now they >are over the knee and almost down to where they need to do the leg >decrease. I'm guessing maybe a hands breadth up the thigh looking at the >pictures... which gets it over the knee 'bump'... Are you knitting from the toe up? I always thought sox were knitted from the top down. Do you have documentation on toe-up knitting? I'd love to see it, as it would make several things easier. >Carol, with a knee warmer rapidly turning into a sock! CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 17:06:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9UM68OL024906 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:06:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UM5BcC021591; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:05:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UM5Aw2027817; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:05:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UM57w2027754 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:05:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id h9UM56wO016801 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:05:06 -0500 Message-Id: <200310302205.h9UM56wO016801@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:00:52 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: derby ribs/height of socks From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Derby ribs are machine-knit ribs. If I recall correctly, the Derby ribber was patented in the mid 18thC, but probably took a few more years to become widespread. Handknit ribbing was always *possible* to do. Ribbed stockings existed, and I'm thinking they were worn by men because I've seen them described as men's in ship inventories but not described as women's. What they did not seem to have until the early 19thC are stockings with ribbing at the top only. In fact, I've seen ribbed hose that are plain knit at the top, the portion that would be covered by a man's breeches. Do you have the URL of that specific part of the German web page? I'm curious what they're showing as Derby ribs. Many of the pictures seem to be from Jeremy Farrell's _Socks & Stockings_. Farrell is the curator of the Nottingham costume museum. As far as how high stockings go, maybe a hand and a half? There are a few paintings of ladies tying their garters which show the length. -Carol fastusminimus said: > Hi > I got the caption of the 1750 (the year is spot on...) English socks > from the sock museum page and ran it thru a Babble fish site... > > >To the simple cloth skirt, close knee trousers were carried for the > >frack, instead of fine silk socks carried one "derby ribs" - serrated > >Woll or cotton socks, which underlined the simplicity of the new > >clothes. English "derby ribs" serrated cotton socks around 1750 > > > OK so from this and the accompanying picture, there were ribbed > socks??? Was this a local fashion or did it make it across the Pond?? > > Also how high up on the thigh did 1750-1790 SE PA area socks come?? I > really thought it would take me lots longer to knit this far, but now > they are over the knee and almost down to where they need to do the > leg decrease. I'm guessing maybe a hands breadth up the thigh looking > at the pictures... which gets it over the knee 'bump'... > > Thanks for all the help! > > ta > Carol, with a knee warmer rapidly turning into a sock! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 17:13:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9UMDTOL024922 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:13:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UMCkcC022677; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:12:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UMCew2005074; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:12:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UMCWw2004948 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:12:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id h9UMCVwO022332 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:12:31 -0500 Message-Id: <200310302212.h9UMCVwO022332@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:08:17 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clocks (was Re: Hose/stockings) From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows said: > Also, I think that duplicate stitch is period for > decorating clocks on stockings, but I can't support > this assumption off the top of my head. Plating is a technique used on frameknit hose, and the technique seems to have ended around 1750. A second yarn was placed over the primary yarn (not substituted but knit with it) to make the design. You could use a duplicate stitch to fake plating, but I have not seen any hand done duplicate-stitched stockings. For some hand-embellished hose, a horizontal stitch is taken across the knit stitch. This resembles a purl stitch when done in the same color. Depending on the design, the embroidered stitch might go across 3 or 5 knit stitches. I see this after 1750. Alsothere is regular old embroidery in a multitude of stitches, sometimes with a motif stitched onto vellum and sewn onto the stockings, with other stitches added directly to the stocking. > Remember to chart knitting on wide-rectangle-grid paper rather than regular > squared paper, as knit stitches are wider than they are tall. (There used > to be some freeware or shareware knitting-pattern-generating software using > suitable rectangular grids.) Actually I think they're taller than they are wide, but they are definitely not even height to width! > OT - The knitting book "Tap-Dancing Lizards" has many fun > one-color-on-background images charted on rectangular grids, That's a fun book! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 17:15:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9UMFNOL024927 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:15:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UMEacC022841; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:14:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UMEZw2006738; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:14:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UMEXw2006688 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:14:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([209.204.72.95]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:13:50 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Moire silk source Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:14:39 -0500 Message-ID: <007f01c39f33$36fffb40$d56453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h9UMEXw2006688 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin wrote: <> While I agree with your assessment of rayon brocades, Robin (as much as it pains me to use rayon), I have to let you know that 100% silk brocades ARE indeed available. You have to really keep an eye out for them, but I've found some over the years. About 7 years ago, Thai Silks was selling two non-Oriental 100% silk brocades that I wish I would have bought bolts of. And just last year, I acquired some black and silver and brown and gold silk brocade from a quilter's supply. So they're available (unlike real silk moiré). Just not predictably so. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 17:38:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9UMcSOL024994 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:38:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UMbFcC024886; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:37:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UMbAw2025976; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:37:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UMb6w2025927 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:37:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08788 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:01:17 -0600 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:01:17 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Moire silk source In-Reply-To: <007f01c39f33$36fffb40$d56453d8@Kass> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Kass McGann wrote: > Robin wrote: > < silk brocades.>> > > While I agree with your assessment of rayon brocades, Robin (as much as > it pains me to use rayon), I have to let you know that 100% silk > brocades ARE indeed available. Yes, and much more so now than 20 years ago, when I first turned to rayon substitutes. Forgive my poor wording above. I wasn't meaning to suggest that silk brocades are not available at all, but simply that they are often not available in the colors or patterns you might need. Being able to choose from rayons as well (widely available in home-dec fabrics) expands your options dramatically. Also, when available, silk brocades are still prohibitively expensive for many of us. Knowing that rayon brocades will function well enough for repro purposes can make a project possible if budget is a factor. Of course I'll work in the real thing if I have the choice. Rayon for silk is about the only substitution I'll tolerate. I refuse to use any of today's wool substitutes, even though they look and feel exactly right, because they don't *behave* right. And don't get me started on "linen-look" fabrics ;-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 18:30:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9UNUPOL025149 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:30:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UNTkcC029420; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:29:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UNThEt008953; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:29:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UNTeEt008897 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:29:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.22]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:28:53 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Moire silk source Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:29:41 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c39f3d$b2fcf6d0$166453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin wrote: <> Gotcha. Just making sure you knew they were out there, sometimes, somewhere. =) Robin also wrote: <> Just for comparison, both the brocades I found were about $18 a yard. When I found the Thai Silks brocades seven years ago, this kept me from buying it. But when I found the brocade last year, I bought every yard she had. Funny how time changes things... Then Robin said: <> Amen Sister! Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 19:18:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9V0IOOL025234 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:18:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9V0HkcC003553; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:17:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9V0Hiwr013519; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:17:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9V0Hfwr013478 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:17:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09350 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:41:51 -0600 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:41:51 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Moire silk source In-Reply-To: <000001c39f3d$b2fcf6d0$166453d8@Kass> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Kass McGann wrote: > Just for comparison, both the brocades I found were about $18 a yard. > When I found the Thai Silks brocades seven years ago, this kept me > from buying it. But when I found the brocade last year, I bought > every yard she had. Funny how time changes things... Hmm. Then I'd better not tell you about Istok. http://www.istok.net/ Click on "Vestment Fabrics." Warning: I suspect they use the word "silk" loosely. But they offer samples. I've seen a friend's sample set, and there would be enough to subject a part of a swatch to a bleach test to find out whether a specific brocade is the real thing. They also have an email address for product inquiries, but even the best retailer can be misled about fiber content -- tests are best. I'd love to know if anyone here has actually ordered any of these silk brocades. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 20:55:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9V1tHOL025429 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:55:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9V1qxcC013223; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9V1qvvZ006242; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:52:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9V1qsvZ006205 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:52:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.147.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.147] helo=4gxif) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AFOT7-0007hD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:52:54 -0500 Message-ID: <02ad01c39f51$b4d919c0$93f74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031030130227.0575da60@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Was Clocks now Graph Paper Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:52:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO CarolynKayta wrote: (There used > to be some freeware or shareware knitting-pattern-generating software using > suitable rectangular grids.) Here's shareware for graph paper. It also does calendars, musical notation paper, guide lines for writing; just bunches of stuff. The graph paper is customizable, although I haven't tried that. http://www.mathematicshelpcentral.com/graph_paper.htm -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 21:14:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9V2EFOL025463 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:14:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9V2DacC014691; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:13:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9V2DZrs016768; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:13:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9V2DWrs016735 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:13:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-67-116-254-223.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.116.254.223 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Oct 2003 02:13:31 -0000 Message-ID: <001f01c39f54$9404fd10$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk taffeta source Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:13:30 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heather (on this list) recently bought some of the peach (and seafoam?) taffeta from Fashion Fabrics Club, and it's actually much lighter than most taffetas I've handled. Just an FYI! - Kendra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk taffeta source > Some of the stuff I've seen at Fashion Fabrics' retail store is pretty > stiff. The website has some taffeta: > > http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/home/catalog_items.cfm?Query=silk+taffeta+ 100%25 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 22:22:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9V3MGOL025610 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:22:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9V3LZcC019147; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:21:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9V3LWC0022858; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:21:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9V3LSC0022790 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:21:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1a5.1b4e74f6 (3874) for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:20:59 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1a5.1b4e74f6.2cd32f1b@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:20:59 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk taffeta source To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/30/2003 9:14:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, kendra@tweedlebop.com writes: > Heather (on this list) recently bought some of the peach (and seafoam?) > taffeta from Fashion Fabrics Club, and it's actually much lighter than most > taffetas I've handled. > I've seen some real 1840s gowns somewhere that were very light taffetas. And some 1870's too [Also just an FYI.] So this could be good. Now if we could just find some of those springy wool/silk blends from the 1840s...... I also remember this great ca 1876 skirt of very light shiny silk twill. [It was kaki in color with one of those typical asymmetrical drapes that started with a horizontal ruffle on one hip. The back side of the ruffle, which you caught a glimpse of, was lined in burgundy taffeta. I wonder what the [lost] bodice looked like.] Didn't they have silk twill taffeta on the site too? Or was that Silk Connections? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 23:10:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9V4AEOL025785 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:10:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9V49bcC021357; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:09:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9V48QNQ015068; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:08:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9V48NNQ015044 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:08:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.249.181.87] (pool181-74.patriot.net [209.249.181.74]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9V48KwP005327 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:08:21 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <200310301901.h9UJ1IW6020232@net.indra.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:08:01 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: [h-cost] Re: derby ribs/height of socks Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The photo Carol Huff cites is on the web page http://www.deutsches-strumpfmuseum.de/geschichte/geschichte_10.htm And it's also on page 31 of Socks & Stockings. They're silk hand knit ribbed hose in the collection of the V&A. Since they're hand knit, they are not Derby ribs - Derby ribs are machine knit. So, while there are 18thC ribbed stockings, I don't know how much we can trust the German site for information. -Carol >Hi >I got the caption of the 1750 (the year is spot on...) English socks >from the sock museum page and ran it thru a Babble fish site... > >>To the simple cloth skirt, close knee trousers were carried for the >>frack, instead of fine silk socks carried one "derby ribs" - serrated >>Woll or cotton socks, which underlined the simplicity of the new >>clothes. English "derby ribs" serrated cotton socks around 1750 > > >OK so from this and the accompanying picture, there were ribbed >socks??? Was this a local fashion or did it make it across the Pond?? > >Also how high up on the thigh did 1750-1790 SE PA area socks come?? >I really thought it would take me lots longer to knit this far, but >now they are over the knee and almost down to where they need to do >the leg decrease. I'm guessing maybe a hands breadth up the thigh >looking at the pictures... which gets it over the knee 'bump'... > >Thanks for all the help! > >ta >Carol, with a knee warmer rapidly turning into a sock! >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 30 23:11:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9V4BaOL025790 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:11:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9V4B4cC021479; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:11:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9V49sNQ015832; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:09:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9V499NQ015417 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:09:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.184] (pm5-184.eos.net [205.133.149.184]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9V497QY015862 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:09:07 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:01:29 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200310310322.h9V3MFC1023243@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: Itok X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ooh, Robin, you are WICKED!!!!!!! I did not need to see that ... Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 03:45:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9V8jqOL028478 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 03:45:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9V8j7cC003351; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 01:45:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9V8j1Hm023835; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 01:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9V8ivHm023779 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 01:44:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-239-132.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.239.132]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9V8iRm3012866 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 00:44:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031031004237.05107ad0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 00:43:46 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Was Clocks now Graph Paper In-Reply-To: <02ad01c39f51$b4d919c0$93f74a43@4gxif> References: <4.3.1.2.20031030130227.0575da60@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > (There used > > to be some freeware or shareware knitting-pattern-generating software >using > > suitable rectangular grids.) > >Here's shareware for graph paper. It also does calendars, musical notation >paper, guide lines for writing; just bunches of stuff. The graph paper is >customizable, although I haven't tried that. > >http://www.mathematicshelpcentral.com/graph_paper.htm Knitting needs a rectangular grid, not a square one. But thanx anyway. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 07:57:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VCvCOL000628 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:57:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VCuOcC012363; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 05:56:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VCuFjj001863; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 05:56:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mxout.iskon.hr (qmailr@mxout.iskon.hr [213.191.128.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9VCuBjj001798 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 05:56:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 246 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2003 13:56:07 +0100 Received: from mx.iskon.hr (qmailr@213.191.128.11) by mxout.iskon.hr with SMTP; 31 Oct 2003 13:56:07 +0100 Received: (qmail 534 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2003 13:56:05 +0100 X-Remote-IP: 213.202.67.32 Received: from st02-031.dialin.iskon.hr (HELO jadran-th68nctg.public.srce.hr) (213.202.67.32) by mx.iskon.hr with SMTP; 31 Oct 2003 13:56:05 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031031135433.019cec60@public.carnet.hr> X-Sender: jkale@public.carnet.hr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:55:28 +0100 To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: "J. Kale" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "How Important is Accurate Reproduction Clothing?" http://www.alhfam.org/his.clo.news/f98ahcc.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 09:03:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VE3COL000829 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:03:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VE1IcC016731; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:01:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VE1F0o004337; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:01:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VE1C0o004317 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:01:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([209.204.72.61]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:00:25 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing" Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:01:16 -0500 Message-ID: <002d01c39fb7$74e93d20$3d48ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20031031135433.019cec60@public.carnet.hr> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can't really argue with anything they have to say. But I really wish more sites would buy decent clothing for their docents and not let them go around looking like unmade beds in "English bodices" and muffin caps. I think it destroys the credibility of the site. Dare I say it? Better for them to be dressed in a modern uniform than bad "reproduction clothing". Kass -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of J. Kale Sent: 31 October 2003 7:55 AM To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing" "How Important is Accurate Reproduction Clothing?" http://www.alhfam.org/his.clo.news/f98ahcc.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 09:29:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VETGOL000950 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:29:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VESbcC018350; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:28:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VESa0o018417; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:28:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VESW0o018368 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:28:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.146.1b834c08 (17377) for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:28:21 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <146.1b834c08.2cd3cb85@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:28:21 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/31/2003 9:01:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, historian@reconstructinghistory.com writes: > Can't really argue with anything they have to say. I can... A woman in a "Victorian" gown on a tour of a historic house is more of a distraction than a benefit. The focus of the interpretation is on the furniture or the architecture or the family who lived there. The rooms are fabrications anyway, due to the passages needed to accommodate the public. Besides, the guide is in danger of knocking things off tables with her skirts. Pul-eeze! Only if she's a complete cluts! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 09:43:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VEhJOL001063 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:43:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VE8ecC017260; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:08:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VE8d0o008062; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:08:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VE8b0o008009 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:08:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.12f.340f33b8 (18403) for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:08:29 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <12f.340f33b8.2cd3c6dc@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:08:28 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moire silk source To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/30/2003 5:15:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, historian@reconstructinghistory.com writes: You have to really keep an eye out for them, but I've found some over the years. I, too, scored a piece of real silk brocade about 3 years ago, when one of the big Joann, ETC stores opened in our area. They had a great selection of silks then. Alas, I guess they didn't sell, as they cleared them all out and now only have dupioni. I also got a lovely piece of black silk with a border embroidery in lavender. And, of course, the advantage of buying them at Joann's is that I could use my 50% off coupons. Hmm, maybe that's why they had to get rid of them--nobody would buy them at full price! Also in their late lamented line of silks was a peach silk twill that was perfect for making the nude-look underdress to wear under an early 19th century sheer white cotton gown. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 09:45:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VEjkOL001080 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:45:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VEj7cC019495; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:45:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VEj50o027689; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:45:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.surewest.net (smtp2.surewest.net [208.45.228.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9VEj20o027636 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 16995 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2003 14:44:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21) (66.205.128.11) by smtp2.surewest.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2003 14:44:55 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031031064255.00bc1a48@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 06:44:51 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing" In-Reply-To: <146.1b834c08.2cd3cb85@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2 SNWK2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:28 AM 10/31/2003 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 10/31/2003 9:01:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, >historian@reconstructinghistory.com writes: > > > Can't really argue with anything they have to say. > >I can... > >A woman in a "Victorian" gown on a tour of a historic house is more of a >distraction than a benefit. The focus of the interpretation is on the >furniture or >the architecture or the family who lived there. The rooms are fabrications >anyway, due to the passages needed to accommodate the public. Besides, the >guide >is in danger of knocking things off tables with her skirts. > >Pul-eeze! Only if she's a complete cluts! And if the room is "historically" arranged, you should not have that problem. Many "reproduction" rooms are overcrowded with furniture and "stuff" that would not have been there. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 09:52:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VEqKOL001103 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:52:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VEpicC019901; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:51:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VEpg0o001490; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:51:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VEpe0o001442 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:51:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1cb.137c2067 (18403) for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:51:23 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1cb.137c2067.2cd3d0eb@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:51:23 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/31/2003 9:45:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, joanmj@surewest.net writes: And if the room is "historically" arranged, you should not have that problem. Many "reproduction" rooms are overcrowded with furniture and "stuff" that would not have been there. Granted the late Victorian is not my period, but I have seen photographs of rooms from this time, and they really do look overcrowded to modern eyes. So maybe some of these repro rooms are based on accurate period images. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 10:00:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VF0QOL001130 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:00:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VExhcC020393; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:59:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VExfd9005962; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:59:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VExdd9005935 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:59:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.58]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:58:56 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing" Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:59:48 -0500 Message-ID: <003301c39fbf$a1a87e90$3d48ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <146.1b834c08.2cd3cb85@aol.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AlbertCat wrote: I can... A woman in a "Victorian" gown on a tour of a historic house is more of a distraction than a benefit. The focus of the interpretation is on the furniture or the architecture or the family who lived there. The rooms are fabrications anyway, due to the passages needed to accommodate the public. Besides, the guide is in danger of knocking things off tables with her skirts. Pul-eeze! Only if she's a complete cluts! >>>> I can't disagree with you there. But he goes on to almost completely contradict himself and say that accurate reproduction clothing is important. If you're going to do it, do it right. How big, exactly, does he think "Victorian" clothing is I wonder... Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 10:52:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VFqMOL001243 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:52:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VFpfcC024594; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:51:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VFpcd9009362; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:51:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VFpYd9009312 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:51:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip221.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.221]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCB516A58D for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:51:32 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:51:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Was Clocks now Graph Paper Message-ID: <3FA2148C.10345.E0F4767@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20031031004237.05107ad0@mail.frys.com> References: <02ad01c39f51$b4d919c0$93f74a43@4gxif> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >http://www.mathematicshelpcentral.com/graph_paper.htm > > Knitting needs a rectangular grid, not a square one. But thanx > anyway. Have you looked at the program? I use the graph paper printer program that Philippe Marquis wrote (which the website seems to point to). It is totally customizable so that you can have rectangular grids. And it's easy to use (which is good since I am not a computer program wizard). If you need a grid which is rectangular you just enter a different number for the abscissa than you do for the ordinate (which one is bigger depends on which way you want your rectangle to lay). And you can see what it looks like before you print it, you can do test prints and you can save your grid for later use. It allows you to have alternating heavy and light lines (actually 3 sizes alternating if you really wanted it to do so) and it can do it in color or with black or grey lines. It's a fairly small program so it won't eat up a lot of space on your machine. It may fit your needs afterall. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 11:49:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VGnmOL001411 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:49:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VGn5cC029610; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:49:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VGn3oL025967; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:49:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VGn0oL025872 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:49:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 378879 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:48:55 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:53:43 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk taffeta source From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1a5.1b4e74f6.2cd32f1b@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 10/30/03 7:20 PM, "AlbertCat@aol.com" wrote: > In a message dated 10/30/2003 9:14:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, > kendra@tweedlebop.com writes: > >> Heather (on this list) recently bought some of the peach (and seafoam?) >> taffeta from Fashion Fabrics Club, and it's actually much lighter than most >> taffetas I've handled. >> > > I've seen some real 1840s gowns somewhere that were very light taffetas. And > some 1870's too [Also just an FYI.] So this could be good. > > Now if we could just find some of those springy wool/silk blends from the > 1840s...... > I can't address how historically correct they are, but if you're in Los Angeles, B. Black and Sons have beautiful yardage of wool and silk blends. They have a website but you can't feel the fabric and really appreciate the 'crunch' of it. The two pieces I bought (for walking skirt-type skirts for work) had the most beautiful hand I've ever felt in any fabric. They had beautiful small striped patterns and some gorgeous tweeds. There were certainly other patterns including plaids; I just didn't pay as much attention to them. B. Black is on Los Angeles St, I believe, just a few blocks from the fabric district. Very satisfied customer for several years, LynnD > I also remember this great ca 1876 skirt of very light shiny silk twill. [It > was kaki in color with one of those typical asymmetrical drapes that started > with a horizontal ruffle on one hip. The back side of the ruffle, which you > caught a glimpse of, was lined in burgundy taffeta. I wonder what the [lost] > bodice looked like.] Didn't they have silk twill taffeta on the site too? Or > was > that Silk Connections? > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 11:52:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VGqpOL001428 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:52:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VGq2cC029859; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:52:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VGq0oL028307; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:52:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.224]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VGproL028225 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:51:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from Martha (24-90-83-116.nyc.rr.com [24.90.83.116]) with SMTP id h9VGpqgv025117 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:51:52 -0500 (EST) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:52:02 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200310310322.h9V3MFC2023243@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] Re. graph paper X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.mathematicshelpcentral.com/graph_paper.htm Helen, that site is wonderful. Thank you. I just downloaded the graph paper printer program and it works like a charm. Looks like needlepoint lay-out to me! Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 12:52:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VHqIOL001572 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:52:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VHpZcC005781; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:51:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VHpWvt020175; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:51:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VHpSvt020054 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:51:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp04599099pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net[68.55.87.127]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <200310311751220150059r2ae> (Authid: cozit); Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:51:23 +0000 Message-ID: <3FA2A11C.9050500@comcast.net> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:51:24 -0500 From: Cozit / Liz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200310310322.h9V3MFC1023243@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200310310322.h9V3MFC1023243@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re:16th century sock clocks? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not sure who asked originally, and while a voracious reader/searcher at times, I'm lamentably horrid about remembering to actually *write* any of my specific source stuff down (throwback to school... it becomes work when you write notes, instead of fun). However, I do seem to recall reading in a couple of places (can't remember if Rutt is one or not) that one of the original reasons for knitted in clocks was to provide a bit of give in the slender ankle and just above area, to allow the bulky heel of a foot through. By adding in those purled stitches, you provide give that comes back (yes, that's why we all love ribbing so much now :-) Exactly when the embroidered clocks came in I'm not sure... though I know that they were around by American Revolutionary time. Knit stockings being so new in the 1500s, other than in the Germanic countries, I can't imagine them being imitated/faked with embroidery for decoration quite that early (in England they didn't show up until around Queen Elizabeth's time... and even then they're pretty rare... sigh... I'd been trying to come up with a Henry VIII character for faire that would knit. No luck unless German.) -Elisabeth >From: Kirrily Robert > > >In lists.sca.h-costume, you wrote: > > >>Say, while we're on the subject of stockings, does anyone have resources for embroidered or knit clock patterns for stockings, from the 16th century? >> >> > >I know one person in the SCA who has recreated Eleanor of Toledo's red >stockings, and I know she's also knitted hose with clock patterning. >She might have the details. Her details are here: >http://www.sca.org.au/laurels/biogs/margie/margie.htm > >I have another friend who was laurelled mostly for SCA period knitting, >her details are here: >http://www.sca.org.au/laurels/biogs/rohese/rohese.htm > >I figure their email addresses are publicly available, so feel free to >drop them a line and ask them. > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 12:54:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VHsMOL001581 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:54:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VHrdcC006000; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:53:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VHravt022041; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:53:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VHrMvt021789 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:53:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AFdSa-0001RS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:53:20 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:53:25 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01c39fd7$e2249860$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] FW: How the linen that we love came to be what it is.-some Russian History X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h9VHsMOL001581 Status: RO Thought I would send this along for you Russian and Linen buffs. -----Original Message----- From: Fabrics-store.com [mailto:cs@fabrics-store.com] Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 9:16 AM To: saragrace@earthlink.net Subject: How the linen that we love came to be what it is. We already had the wonderful opportunity to begin discussing linen history from the period that stands out as the oldest and most significant, Ancient Egypt. But linen plays a significant role not only in Ancient Egypt. In fact Asian tradesmen start to mention Slavic linen production as far back as 2000BC. At that time flax was mainly used to manufacture sailcloth, fishnets and mainly for flax oil, but this is just the beginning. In the 10th through the 13th centuries, the Russians were already deeply involved with linen production. By this time they had already developed two types of printing: block and line printing. Block printing was done on linen using black, dark blue, bright red, yellow, or white dye on bleached linen that was then dyed a dark blue or green color. Motifs derived from plant forms were rare to the eye, but stylized animals are often encountered: horses, deer, and various birds. Line printing that was simpler and generally geometrical. A typical pattern resembles a rhomboid latter lattice with dots or circles in the middle; four-part divisions into smaller rhomboids, rosettes, or stars on a back ground of smaller triangles or squares (imitating wood carvings); patterns of straight or wavy lines; and with a different figure into it's rosettes, braiding and 'suns' for borders. To achieve this plethora of colors, fabrics were treated with animal, though preferably vegetable dyes. Blue dye was made from 'son-travi' which literally means ' dream grass', cornflower, blueberry/huckleberry and bilberries. Yellow was exerted from blackthorn and 'droka' (the leaves of birch). Golden-brown was achieved with the color of onion peels, oak and pear bark. Reddish-brown dyes were of buckwheat, St. John's wart, wild apple cores or bark, alder and buckhorn. Solid colored fabrics were called 'kreshenin' and consisted of homespun linen dyed blue, green, and red, they were later set aside for boyar clothing. Despite all these techniques, the raw color of unbleached linen still predominated in peasant garments through out time. In the 18th century Russia encounters great economic, social and cultural changes. Peter decides to widen the flax industry. This is where the story of linen, our linen, begins to really develop. At first, around 1727, there were fifteen existing factories that employed 3000 workers, but by 1799 the number of workers expands to 29,000. In that time, export increases from 1856 k pud (1 pud = 16.38kg) to 4450 k pud, which adds up to 19.1% of the total world export. During the 19th century Russia becomes number one supplier for the European market. From 1861, with the introduction towards abolition of export duty tax on linen within Russia, the country rises to produce 64% of linen for the World market. Such large numbers of production are also attributed to the fact that Belgium, simultaneously, decreases sales due to a swell of export tax, as well as the time breaking British Industrial Revolution, with it's fast, cold cut technology and the 'assembly line' motto. Likewise, Irish linen, most known for it's fair quality is only evident to have appeared on the main market with the arrival of Huguenots in the late17th century, yet the numbers of production are incomparable. Naturally, with such productions, one may inquire about the use of such large quantities of raw material within the Tzars kingdom. 'What may one do with all his cloth?' " The main fabrics used by nobility and peasantry for everyday clothes were linen and wool, both made from local materials and available in a variety of weights and quality. Linen production was particularly well developed. In the ancient Russian language there existed two sets of terms for indicating linen fabric: 'hlast', 'holst', 't'lstiny', denoting unbleached fabric, and 'bel', 'platno', denoting bleached linen. Characteristically, during excavations the remains of the materials not infrequently are found, most often of all bleached linen ('platno')." (Pushkareva89) As you can see there was no over abundance of linen in Russia since it was warn by nobility and peasants alike, but flax played a much more crucial role in the lives of peasants. The relationship between man and his crop greatly predestined the man's life. If he worked hard, his crop would feed him, and the crop demanded a lot of time. Growing flax was perhaps one of the most difficult tasks 'krestyanin' could acquire, but the earth was poor and linen was the last resource. It was very demanding not just because of making sure that the flax grows, but of the whole process required to turn it into linen. After the harvesting, flax sheaves were left out to ripen the fibers, next they were spread across threshing floors to dry: seeds were beaten out of the stems. Again, the fibers were laid to rest in open air to gather dew and sun. Then dried, dressed, cleaned and carded with huge wooden hackles. Soft to touch, the clean tow was spun on spindles. Only now came the turn for the loom. Yet even the woven linen was still not ready for use. First, long strips of linen were spread across slightly melted snow, then the ice and the sun would bleach the fabric. After the men took their battledores and beat the roughness away on the shores of a river. The silky softness was the ticket to some 'bread on the table'. There is even a wise proverb that states: ' Rye is the mother- linen is the father.' Linen was a very significant part of a Russian man's life. I hope you enjoyed this little piece of history and hope to see you again. Thanks, Oksana P.S. Now we are also offering web hosting. You can register your domain for $8.75 a year and host your website for as low as $7.95 a month . ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Fabrics-store.com . Great place for pure linen fabric. Free samples, sales and discounts. If you no longer wish to receive our newsletters and updates, please click unsubscribe . _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 13:25:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VIPBOL001652 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:25:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VIOQcC009092; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:24:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VIOA0G019765; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:24:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13403.mail.yahoo.com (web13403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9VIO50G019681 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:24:05 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031031182404.85299.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.170] by web13403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:24:04 PST Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:24:04 -0800 (PST) From: Mara Riley Subject: RE: [h-cost] link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing" To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <002d01c39fb7$74e93d20$3d48ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A case in point: last time I visited the site, I noticed that Mount Vernon's tour guides were dressed (at least, in summer) in khaki slacks and a green polo shirt with the site's logo on it. They also had one or two people in accurate historical costume doing a first-person impression -- the woman I encountered was portraying Lady Fairfax. I think this is the best of both worlds. The site doesn't have to spend a lot of money clothing the tour guides, but the tourists get to encounter someone doing a high-quality, well-researched first-person impression. And, after all, tourists do want to see someone in costume when they go to a site. It also delineates a clear boundary between those doing a first-person impression (those in costume) and those who are answering modern questions that would force an interpreter to step out of persona. That probably makes it easier for the people who are doing first-person to stay in persona, a problem I've had at sites where some people were staying in persona and some weren't. The problem is that some people volunteer to be docents at sites because they like to dress up -- even if their idea of dressing up is the bodice and mob cap. The only answer to this is to educate the site administrators and get them to update their guidelines, unfortunately. -- Mara --- Kass McGann wrote: > Can't really argue with anything they have to say. But I really > wish > more sites would buy decent clothing for their docents and not let > them > go around looking like unmade beds in "English bodices" and muffin > caps. > I think it destroys the credibility of the site. Dare I say it? > Better > for them to be dressed in a modern uniform than bad "reproduction > clothing". > > Kass __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 13:48:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VIm4OL001813 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:48:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VIlJcC011874; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:47:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VIlA0G010707; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:47:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VIl50G010621 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:47:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id h9VIl4wO020274 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:47:04 -0500 Message-Id: <200310311847.h9VIl4wO020274@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:42:49 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:16th century sock clocks? From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cozit / Liz said: > However, I do seem to recall reading in a couple of places (can't > remember if Rutt is one or not) that one of the original reasons for > knitted in clocks was to provide a bit of give in the slender ankle and > just above area, to allow the bulky heel of a foot through. By adding > in those purled stitches, you provide give that comes back (yes, that's > why we all love ribbing so much now :-) I remember reading that, too. It's funny, though, that the ankle is also where we see soem very elaborate embroidery in the 17th & 18thC. Metallic threads over vellum are definitely not going to make the area more flexible! Hmmmn, here's a thought - if the embroidery was stiff enough, maybe it kept the area from bagging as much? And maybe it distracted the attention from any wrinkles around the ankles? As far as real live 16thC hose, there are some as well as other knit objects in the Museum of London. I'll have to dog out my slides... But these are common stockings, not the sort with pretty clocking on them. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 14:11:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VJBoOL001876 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:11:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VJAwcC014197; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:10:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VJAuIl001832; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:10:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VJAoIl001738 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:10:53 -0700 (MST) Received: by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix, from userid 313) id 9FE8E2F950; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:14:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moire silk source To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:14:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <103020032006.11883.30c@att.net> from "mmcnealy@att.net" at Oct 30, 2003 08:06:51 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20031031191425.9FE8E2F950@jabberwock.wonderland.com> From: alice@wonderland.com (Heather Meadows) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO if you could find silk faille, you could make your own moire... > > Well darn! Then, I guess I will just go with silk taffeta instead of moire, > as making a 16th century dress out of poly or acetate is not personally > acceptable. > > In case your wondering what the project is, go here. > > > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/d/durer/2/11/2/01dresse.html > > Close up, http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/d/durer/2/11/2/01dresse.jpg > > > You can see the wattered silk of the dress by the hem of her cloak. > > -Marion > > > Hi. > > As far as i have found out, real silk moire is not made any more. > > You can only get man made fiber moire today. > > > > Bjarne > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 12:54 AM > > Subject: [h-cost] Moire silk source > > > > > > > Does anyone have a good online source for moire silk? > > > > > > -Marion > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 14:21:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VJLsOL001897 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:21:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VJG6cC014753; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:16:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VJG5Il006188; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:16:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VJG1Il006129 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:16:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from 16-17.tnt-3.harrisburg.supernet.com ([64.41.16.17] helo=[64.41.16.162]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AFeka-0003NH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:16:00 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200310310322.h9V3MFC2023243@net.indra.com> References: <200310310322.h9V3MFC2023243@net.indra.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:15:55 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: How high on thigh socks come? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 8:22 PM -0700 10/30/03, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >Are you knitting from the toe up? I always thought sox were knitted from >the top down. Do you have documentation on toe-up knitting? I'd love to >see it, as it would make several things easier. > > >Carol, with a knee warmer rapidly turning into a sock! Nope top down, carefully sliding tube + needles over chunky leg to measure & check fit... wondering how high up the thigh the sock should go... 'orrible Halloween thought--Amish strippers...... I'll just slink off now Ta Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 14:21:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VJLsOL001898 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:21:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VJKecC015083; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:20:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VJKeIl009835; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:20:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VJKbIl009809 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:20:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from 16-17.tnt-3.harrisburg.supernet.com ([64.41.16.17] helo=[64.41.16.162]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AFep2-0005f5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:20:36 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200310310322.h9V3MFC2023243@net.indra.com> References: <200310310322.h9V3MFC2023243@net.indra.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:20:31 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 713 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 8:22 PM -0700 10/30/03, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > Do you have the URL of that specific part of the German web page? I'm >curious what they're showing as Derby ribs. Many of the pictures seem to be >from Jeremy Farrell's _Socks & Stockings_. Farrell is the curator of the >Nottingham costume museum. > > As far as how high stockings go, maybe a hand and a half? >There are a few >paintings of ladies tying their garters which show the length. > > -Carol It was the one mentioned on this list, I didn't book mark it-ARGH! Thanks on the length!! I'm not as far on as I thought Ta Carol, back to knitting everywhere but in the car-I end up dropping stitches there...eech! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 14:49:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VJngOL001951 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:49:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VJkPcC017523; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:46:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VJkHIl001284; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:46:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40908.mail.yahoo.com (web40908.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9VJkDIl001160 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:46:14 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031031194607.68936.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.104.32.34] by web40908.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:46:07 PST Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:46:07 -0800 (PST) From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200310311754.h9VHsEvv022651@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] re: How the linen that we love came to be what it is/Russian history X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Thought I would send this along for you Russian and > Linen buffs. Intriguing certainly. When I read this article the other day, I called up the fabrics-store folks and asked the nice girl who answered, Jenny (Genya in Russian/Ukrainian I think?), if she could put me in contact with the author so I could get more citation info. She told me Oksana (who is the owners' daughter) is currently in Ukraine, but that she could be reached by email. I emailed her today with my query for sources/citations, etc. and hopefully I'll get a response. I'll forward anything I get here, if folks are interested (and I suspect someone somewhere on this list would have to be.) :^D -Tasha ===== http://www.cottesimple.com An exploration of European clothing and accessories from the late 14th/early 15th centuries. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 15:26:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VKQBOL002018 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:26:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKPOcC020836; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:25:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKPJFg003220; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:25:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f49.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKPFFg003092 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:25:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:25:10 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.78 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:25:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.78] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:25:09 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Oct 2003 20:25:10.0038 (UTC) FILETIME=[14BB2360:01C39FED] Subject: [h-cost] Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing") X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok, I have a weird question that this thread has made me think of. I'm not sure there's a right answer, but some opinions would be appreciated. I am doing a book on medival shoemaking. There will be several sections in which processes will be demonstrated. My plan has been to have the model in clothing appropriate to the period being discussed - nothing exciting, just pretty dull working class clothing. Will this be too big a distraction from the goal of the book, will it be too "cute", it wouldn't look right with someone in modern dress doing it, any thoughts? Marc _________________________________________________________________ Send instant messages to anyone on your contact list with MSN Messenger 6.0. Try it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 15:36:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VKaOOL002120 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:36:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKZccC021770; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:35:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKZaFg011941; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:35:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKZTFg011774 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:35:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNN00AS72J4QR@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:35:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:20:58 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moire silk source In-reply-to: <20031031191425.9FE8E2F950@jabberwock.wonderland.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031031121809.0298fc50@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <103020032006.11883.30c@att.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:14 AM 10/31/2003 -0800, you wrote: >if you could find silk faille, you could make your own moire... Hi Heather, How would you do that? I thought it would take a lot of pressure. Do you have directions on this, or can point us to directions on this? Denver Fabrics have silk faille right now. http://www.denverfabrics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=001&Category_Code=SI-ta Thanks! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 15:36:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VKaaOL002124 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:36:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKZqcC021803; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:35:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKZpFg012199; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:35:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKZTFk011774 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:35:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNN00AS72J4QR@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:35:29 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:36:09 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] Moire silk source In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031031123538.029b2850@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <000001c39f3d$b2fcf6d0$166453d8@Kass> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 06:41 PM 10/30/2003 -0600, you wrote: >Hmm. Then I'd better not tell you about Istok. > >http://www.istok.net/ > >Click on "Vestment Fabrics." Oh, my goodness. I just drooled all over myself. Thanks Robin for sharing that. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 15:36:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VKafOL002127 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:36:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKZwcC021827; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:35:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKZwFg012303; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:35:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKZTFi011774 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:35:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNN00AS72J4QR@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:35:29 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:35:14 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing" In-reply-to: <6.0.0.22.0.20031031135433.019cec60@public.carnet.hr> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031031122423.0299ccb0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:55 PM 10/31/2003 +0100, you wrote: >"How Important is Accurate Reproduction Clothing?" >http://www.alhfam.org/his.clo.news/f98ahcc.html I have a few thoughts... "Costumes are for clowns. real people of the past wore real clothes which were fashionable, practical, durable, and made sense in their lives just as modern people do. It is insulting and insensitive to dress interpreters in costumes. It shows a disregard for people of the past." ~ Thomas Shaw I really like that line from him. It really reverberated in my head as to why I am looking at our faire folks, and seeing things which make me cry. "Then just add the posture, movement, and gestures which tell the character's social standing, health, and maybe a hint at the character's history. Remember, gestures say a thousand words; and if the character looks like someone from the right time, people will believe it." ~ Kathleen Kannik Ah, that is what it is. That is the biggest thing to me right now, besides the badly made costumes and underpinnings I am seeing. Very few people know how to act like whatever part they play. The beggers no longer beg, the nobles no longer act appropriately haughty (except the King), and the rest have no idea how to act the part they play. You see, I was in the company of a wonderful actor who could BE his character, no matter how low (begger) or high (Earl of Oxford) the part was, and he played the range. I am no longer seeing that. And this is becoming a rant, sorry. And I think I fully agree with Beth Gilgun's info. I think I will be printing this out and giving it to my local guilds. We have needed a wakeup for years, and while it may not be an historical museum, we should be trying harder, not just "getting by". Our only local museums don't have costumed docents, except at Christmas I think. I haven't been there during Christmas in years, so I don't know how well they are costuming themselves. Thanks for sharing this! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 15:37:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VKbmOL002134 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:37:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKb9cC022004; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:37:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKb7Fg013563; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:37:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21405.mail.yahoo.com (web21405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.75]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9VKb3Fg013473 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:37:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031031203702.3735.qmail@web21405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.211.65.97] by web21405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:37:02 PST Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:37:02 -0800 (PST) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing") To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc, I think having them in period appropriate clothing is DEFINITELY less distracting than the alternative. Angharat, who should begin hoarding her pennies for it now __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 15:45:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VKjIOL002173 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:45:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKdRcC022275; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:39:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKdQFg015976; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:39:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKdLFg015841 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:39:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04341 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:03:12 -0600 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:03:12 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Marc Carlson wrote: > I am doing a book on medival shoemaking. There will be several > sections in which processes will be demonstrated. My plan has been to > have the model in clothing appropriate to the period being discussed - > nothing exciting, just pretty dull working class clothing. Will this > be too big a distraction from the goal of the book, will it be too > "cute", it wouldn't look right with someone in modern dress doing it, > any thoughts? I think if you can get every detail right, it would be fine. But if anything obvious is off -- e.g. if the person is wearing glasses, or has a modern haircut, or is sitting on a modern chair or at a modern table or in front of a clearly modern wall, or is using any modern tools -- it will look more "amateurish" or "dress-up" and distract from the point of your photos. If that would be the case, I'd suggest putting your craftsman in modern dull working clothing with absolutely nothing to call attention to it on its own. JMO. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 15:45:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VKjuOL002177 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:45:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKjIcC022845; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:45:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKjGFg021510; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:45:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from david.io.com (david.io.com [199.170.88.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKjDFh021447 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:45:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by david.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9VKjCq8023803 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:45:12 -0600 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h9VKjFkj027133 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:45:15 -0600 Received: from 199.50.29.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:45:15 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <45854.199.50.29.40.1067633115.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:45:15 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] book on medival shoemaking From: "Franchesca Havas" To: In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, as someone that is contemplating doing the same thing with gloves this is something that I have been thinking of. Of all the books I have just about all of them have photos. In the ones that do not have photos but still represent the process of making gloves they use illustrations of the model(s). (This is only two of 30 or so books I have so far and personal notes from two authors.) To my eye these are far more educational. In your case you can draw the perfect period character in full proper garb much easier to demonstrate your point than it would be to do one with models. Your choices are not so limited by what they own already in order to wear it appropriately. Does that help any? Chiara Marc Carlson said: > Ok, I have a weird question that this thread has made me think of. I'm > not sure there's a right answer, but some opinions would be > appreciated. > > I am doing a book on medival shoemaking. There will be several sections > in which processes will be demonstrated. My plan has been to have the > model in clothing appropriate to the period being discussed - nothing > exciting, just pretty dull working class clothing. Will this be too > big a distraction from the goal of the book, will it be too "cute", it > wouldn't look right with someone in modern dress doing it, any > thoughts? > > Marc > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send instant messages to anyone on your contact list with MSN Messenger > 6.0. Try it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 15:55:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VKtUOL002219 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:55:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKsZcC023431; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:54:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKsWFg029206; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:54:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [66.136.30.169]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKsRFg029128 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:54:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from escom.antek [192.168.0.151] by web.antekhou.com (SMTPD32-8.00) id AC001B050120; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:54:24 -0600 Received: From PACws22 ([65.45.18.250]) by escom.antek (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 1067633663365; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:54:23 -0600 Message-ID: <005f01c39ff0$9666e900$0f64a8c0@algx> From: "Cyn Bucheger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing") Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:50:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc Carlson wrote: > > > I am doing a book on medival shoemaking. There will be several > > sections in which processes will be demonstrated. My plan has been to > > have the model in clothing appropriate to the period being discussed - > > nothing exciting, just pretty dull working class clothing. Will this > > be too big a distraction from the goal of the book, will it be too > > "cute", it wouldn't look right with someone in modern dress doing it, > > any thoughts? > > I think if you can get every detail right, it would be fine. But if > anything obvious is off -- e.g. if the person is wearing glasses, or has a > modern haircut, or is sitting on a modern chair or at a modern table or in > front of a clearly modern wall, or is using any modern tools -- it will > look more "amateurish" or "dress-up" and distract from the point of your > photos. If that would be the case, I'd suggest putting your craftsman in > modern dull working clothing with absolutely nothing to call attention to > it on its own. > > JMO. > > --Robin > > My first response was to have the craftsman in the appropriate clothing, with the right tools and so on, but I think Robin is right, if it's not perfect it could be distracting. Then I also considered if I picked up a book with a craftsman in perfectly correct clothing using all the right tools, I might be intimidated to try the method with my paltry modern tools. A page showing the outfit/clothing style that the shoe would have been worn with would be handy for those that want to be shown rather than have to read which is their correct style Cyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 15:55:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VKtbOL002223 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:55:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKt0cC023512; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:55:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKsxFg029514; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:54:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VKsuFg029458 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:54:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04503 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:18:48 -0600 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:18:48 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moire silk source In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031031121809.0298fc50@64.87.54.245> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Kimiko Small wrote: > At 11:14 AM 10/31/2003 -0800, you wrote: > >if you could find silk faille, you could make your own moire... > > How would you do that? I thought it would take a lot of pressure. Do you > have directions on this, or can point us to directions on this? I'm guessing she means real "watered silk," which if I understand correctly was the original type of moire, created with selective waterstaining. Today's "wood-grain" moire patterns are created with pressure or heat and rollers, I think -- I know that most moires I've seen have repeating patterns, not random ones. Today, "watered silk" is a synonym for modern moire fabric, and has nothing to do with water. I'd *love* to know how to make watered silk, though I'm sure I'd make absolute hash out of expensive silk if I tried. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 16:15:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VLFsOL002470 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:15:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLFDcC025306; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:15:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLFAlK016622; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:15:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLF6lK016505 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:15:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74A44425CE for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:19:40 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FA2D166.7050300@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:17:26 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What are you dressing up as tonight? My husband and I and two of our best friends all did late Victorian this year, 1893-ish. I hope the photos come out! Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 16:17:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VLHEOL002474 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:17:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLGYcC025462; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:16:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLGXlK017771; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:16:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLGTlK017658 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:16:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from 204.127.135.30 ([204.127.135.30]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <20031031211624113008a123e>; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:16:24 +0000 Received: from [167.88.200.30] by 204.127.135.30; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:16:23 +0000 From: mmcnealy@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moire silk source Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:16:23 +0000 Message-Id: <103120032116.14662.5f37@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 10 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: bW1jbmVhbHlAYXR0Lm5ldA== X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Right, the original dress was made out of watered silk, moire being the closest thing to it in the current fabric vocabulary that I could think of. Does anyone have an idea on how to make this? I don't think its as simple as just getting it wet, I have washed silk before and it doesn't end up with wavy patterns. Is it perhaps a type of staining using wine or an acidic water for the patterning? I think I see another research project on the horizon. -Marion > I'm guessing she means real "watered silk," which if I understand > correctly was the original type of moire, created with selective > waterstaining. Today's "wood-grain" moire patterns are created with > pressure or heat and rollers, I think -- I know that most moires I've seen > have repeating patterns, not random ones. > > Today, "watered silk" is a synonym for modern moire fabric, and has > nothing to do with water. > > I'd *love* to know how to make watered silk, though I'm sure I'd make > absolute hash out of expensive silk if I tried. > > --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 16:17:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VLHNOL002477 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:17:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLGjcC025481; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:16:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLGilK017943; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:16:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLGclL017779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:16:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-244.sonic.net [209.148.112.244]) (authenticated bits=0)h9VLGWtq001108 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:16:32 -0800 Message-ID: <3FA2D1D7.9060201@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:19:19 -0800 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing") References: <005f01c39ff0$9666e900$0f64a8c0@algx> In-Reply-To: <005f01c39ff0$9666e900$0f64a8c0@algx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Congratulations. Who is your publisher? Your book is under no obligation to do anything it doesn't claim to do, only to fulfill its stated goals. If it is not right for certain people--for example people looking for a more general clothing overview--that does not mean it's a bad book, though it may not be the book they want. In this case, you could say (probably in the introduction) something like, your goal is to clearly present certain shoemaking techniques; and it really helps to include photographs of a people using those techniques so readers/learners can see how the techniques look in 3-D. You asked the models demonstrating the techniques to wear something more or less appropriate from their own wardrobes, since you thought blue jeans etc. would look too jarring next to all the pictures of medieval style shoes. However, that is all you were aiming for. Your goal is not to present a detailed, comprehensive overview of the clothing worn by shoemakers from the years X to X. Just to teach certain techniques. And by the way, thanks to the models X, Y, and Z, who spent hours of their time giving you invaluable help with your book. Fran > Marc Carlson wrote: > > >>>I am doing a book on medival shoemaking. There will be several >>>sections in which processes will be demonstrated. My plan has been to >>>have the model in clothing appropriate to the period being discussed - >>>nothing exciting, just pretty dull working class clothing. Will this >>>be too big a distraction from the goal of the book, will it be too >>>"cute", it wouldn't look right with someone in modern dress doing it, >>>any thoughts? >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 16:27:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VLR7OL002508 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:27:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLQEcC026536; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:26:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLQDlK026151; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:26:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.yesdesigngroup.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLQAlK026105 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:26:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.161.117] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2AD25401F0; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:22:53 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:09:54 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: RE: [h-cost] Moire silk source Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Of course I'll work in the real thing if I have the choice. Rayon for silk >is about the only substitution I'll tolerate. I refuse to use any of >today's wool substitutes, even though they look and feel exactly right, >because they don't *behave* right. And don't get me started on >"linen-look" fabrics ;-) > >--Robin No kidding! I'm very fortunate to live in LA, with the fabric mart downtown. But never go there without a book of matches. Many of the folks there think "linen" means "linen weave", no the fiber itself. Fortunately, I have found two little gems of stores where I can get GREAT linen, and yesterday I even got a FABULOUS 100% Italian wool - broken twill weave, nice and heavy, and fulled and teaseled thick and fuzzy, in a rich black. Next time I go downtown I'll be stocking up, instead of running a quick errand like yesterday..... I'm happy to pick up fabric for folks who are sick of paying retail, and don't have the access I do. Couple of weeks ago, I got a GORGEOUS cabernet colored silk shantung to do a Halloween gown for someone. 60 wide, great quality. Talked 'em down to $7 a yard! I did this a couple of years ago on this list - got a bunch of people some beautiful white linen - I think everybody was pretty happy.... I'll let you guys know when I'm going next.... Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 16:27:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VLRLOL002513 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:27:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLQicC026574; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:26:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLQilK026569; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:26:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLQDlK026148 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:26:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.161.117] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2B025401F0; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:22:56 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <146.1b834c08.2cd3cb85@aol.com> References: <146.1b834c08.2cd3cb85@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:20:35 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >In a message dated 10/31/2003 9:01:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, >historian@reconstructinghistory.com writes: > >> Can't really argue with anything they have to say. > >I can... > >A woman in a "Victorian" gown on a tour of a historic house is more of a >distraction than a benefit. The focus of the interpretation is on >the furniture or >the architecture or the family who lived there. The rooms are fabrications >anyway, due to the passages needed to accommodate the public. >Besides, the guide >is in danger of knocking things off tables with her skirts. > >Pul-eeze! Only if she's a complete cluts! Yeah, that bugged me too. Sheesh! Doesn't he think we know how to manage our garments?????? Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 16:27:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VLRXOL002516 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:27:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLQdcC026560; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:26:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLQdlK026510; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:26:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.yesdesigngroup.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLQBlK026119 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:26:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.161.117] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2AF25401F0; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:22:55 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20031031135433.019cec60@public.carnet.hr> References: <6.0.0.22.0.20031031135433.019cec60@public.carnet.hr> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:18:09 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >"How Important is Accurate Reproduction Clothing?" >http://www.alhfam.org/his.clo.news/f98ahcc.html "Costumes are for clowns. real people of the past wore real clothes which were fashionable, practical, durable, and made sense in their lives just as modern people do. " Bless their fuzzy hearts! I'm am FOREVER explaining that I do NOT make "costumes", I make Historic Clothing. "Costumes" are what you buy at Thrifty so your kid can dress up like Spiderman. Rima Harumph! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 16:27:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VLRdOL002519 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:27:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLQqcC026592; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:26:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLQplK026674; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:26:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.yesdesigngroup.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLQElK026173 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:26:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.161.117] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2B225401F0; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:22:58 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <200310310322.h9V3MFC2023243@net.indra.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:29:25 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: [h-cost] Re: How high on thigh socks come? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >'orrible Halloween thought--Amish strippers...... > >I'll just slink off now > >Ta >Carol That's TWISTED.... But, speaking of Amish.... Do y'all know about this site???? http://www.friendspatterns.net/friendscatalog1.html Found it by accident. Naturally, wanna buy everything here, even though this is not my thing at all.... it's just irresistible! Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 16:28:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VLS0OL002523 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:28:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLRAcC026662; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:27:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLR9lK026910; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:27:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLR6lK026831 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:27:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.f5.335d6d9e (4262) for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:26:54 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:26:54 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We aren't dressing up tonight, but, last Saturday and this Wed. and Thursday, we wore costumes based on early 19th century exotic or historic dress as pictured in Aileen Ribeiro's "Art of Dress." Mine is based on the 1805 Lawrence portrait of Lady Elizabeth Foster as a sybil (I'm Pomono--goddess of the harvest) and Jim's based on the Beechey 1798 portrait of Thomas Hope in "Turkish or Armenian" (her words; I understand they don't have a great deal in common) dress. My outfit consists of an underdress of golden yellow linen top, to give the effect of a chemise, and skirt of ecru pleated polyester (I cheated to get the permanently-pleated fabric.) Overdress is a cream brocade overprinted with fruits in gold, maroon, and olive green, with a shaped overskirt of maroon charmeuse. I draped an olive green silk square over one arm, and made a wreath of fruits and leaves. My husband wore a white shirt without the ruffle, pinned shut about halfway down, with a red, gold, and black silk brocade vest, red linen trousers, black silk sash, and outrageously large turban in gold silk with a large red and gold tassel. Ann wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 16:29:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VLTkOL002533 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:29:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLSxcC026880; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:28:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLSvlK028457; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:28:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLSslK028403 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:28:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (adsl-64-172-61-37.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.172.61.37]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13D432F986 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:32:29 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <371DFBA0-0BE9-11D8-A468-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moire silk source Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:28:48 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO watered silk is made, as I understand it, by dying just the warp threads. I was thinking one could make a wood grain with two failles and a professional steam iron - it would be a true pain, but I think you could get the pressure you need. Maybe I'm nuts, though! On Oct 31, 2003, at 2:18 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Kimiko Small wrote: > >> At 11:14 AM 10/31/2003 -0800, you wrote: >>> if you could find silk faille, you could make your own moire... >> >> How would you do that? I thought it would take a lot of pressure. Do >> you >> have directions on this, or can point us to directions on this? > > I'm guessing she means real "watered silk," which if I understand > correctly was the original type of moire, created with selective > waterstaining. Today's "wood-grain" moire patterns are created with > pressure or heat and rollers, I think -- I know that most moires I've > seen > have repeating patterns, not random ones. > > Today, "watered silk" is a synonym for modern moire fabric, and has > nothing to do with water. > > I'd *love* to know how to make watered silk, though I'm sure I'd make > absolute hash out of expensive silk if I tried. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 16:30:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VLUAOL002540 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:30:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLTScC026978; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:29:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLTRlK028896; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:29:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mattdrury.net ([63.120.103.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLTMlK028796 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:29:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from Spooler by mattdrury.net (Mercury/32 v3.32) ID MO0003CE; 31 Oct 03 16:31:30 -0500 Received: from spooler by mattdrury.net (Mercury/32 v3.32); 31 Oct 03 16:31:27 -0500 Received: from tlininn (66.77.170.226) by mattdrury.net (Mercury/32 v3.32) ID MG0003CD; 31 Oct 03 16:30:53 -0500 Message-ID: <001201c39ff5$f7266b80$6401a8c0@tlininn> From: "Widow Weeds" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FA2D166.7050300@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:28:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > What are you dressing up as tonight? I thought about my French maid outfit, but it needs some work, so I dusted off my NASA-surplus flight-suit from the back of the closet and am waiting for the kiddies to come by to trick-or-treat. Tomorrow night is the party we're throwing, and I'm going all Elizabethan. The weather is just right for hoop-swaying goodness and I mean to enjoy every minute. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 16:33:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VLXvOL002551 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:33:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLXAcC027324; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:33:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLX8lK002345; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:33:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mattdrury.net ([63.120.103.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLX6lK002323 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:33:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from Spooler by mattdrury.net (Mercury/32 v3.32) ID MO0003D1; 31 Oct 03 16:35:14 -0500 Received: from spooler by mattdrury.net (Mercury/32 v3.32); 31 Oct 03 16:34:57 -0500 Received: from tlininn (66.77.170.226) by mattdrury.net (Mercury/32 v3.32) with ESMTP ID MG0003D0; 31 Oct 03 16:33:53 -0500 Message-ID: <001101c39ff6$62c58970$6401a8c0@tlininn> From: "Widow Weeds" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:31:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I thought about my French maid outfit (indeterminate time period), but it needs some work, so I dusted off my late-20th-century NASA-surplus flight-suit from the back of the closet and am waiting for the kiddies to come by to trick-or-treat. Tomorrow night is the party we're throwing, and I'm going all Elizabethan (black and silver, embroidered bodice and stays). The weather is just right for hoop-swaying goodness and I mean to enjoy every minute. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 16:51:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VLpTOL002632 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:51:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLoncC029025; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:50:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLoklK017516; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:50:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLoflK017341 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:50:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.150.260c9681 (2519) for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:50:26 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <150.260c9681.2cd43322@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:50:26 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moire silk source To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/31/2003 4:29:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, alice@wonderland.com writes: > watered silk is made, as I understand it, by dying just the warp > threads. > Nope. That's another technique. I always called it "warp printed" but there's a Japanese name for it too. It creates a fuzzy, out of focus pattern, usually of flowers. The real watered silk I've seen looks like the mark you get if you let water pool on silk....a faint line at the edge of the pool after it dries. I often wondered if you had some kind of rack with parallel dowels with spaces between and you laid the silk on it, wet it, and let it pool in the valleys between the dowels, let it dry, do it several times [with different water levels] you'd get a moire effect. But I'm making this up so who knows? I've seen a watered silk that was not moire in pattern but more like random circular areas that overlapped. And the fabric was folded when it was done because it made 4 mirror images of the random pattern across the fabric. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 16:52:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VLqcOL002637 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:52:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLptcC029178; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:51:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLptlK018411; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:51:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop2b.ripco.com (root@pop2b.ripco.com [209.100.227.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLprlK018383 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:51:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from ripco.com (cybil2.ripco.com [209.100.224.203]) by pop2b.ripco.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9VLpNms023019 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:51:23 -0600 (CST) From: zski@ripco.com To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:51:58 -0600 X-Mailer: CWMail Web to Mail Gateway 2.8c, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <3fa2d978.a0f0.0@ripco.com> X-User-Info: 199.250.136.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: since it's Hallow'een716 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm wearing my Flemish kirtle and gown, and have already had to pull my skirts out of the wheels of my desk chair 4 times now. When people ask "what are you supposed to be", I reply "well, it's casual Friday, so I thought I'd just wear my work clothes" Wendy Z who has since switched to a non-rolly chair in Chicaqgo, IL _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 16:56:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VLu5OL002643 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:56:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLtIcC029472; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:55:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLtIK3020982; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:55:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLtFK3020956 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:55:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip127.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.127]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1084F6A46B for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:49:43 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:55:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een Message-ID: <3FA269CA.12967.F5C3F84@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3FA2D166.7050300@reddawn.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > What are you dressing up as tonight? I'm not dressing up. We've had no trick or treaters come to the house since the next door neighbor girls "got too old for that kind of stuff." Halloween used to be my favorite holiday. It was the once a year when I had a place to "get dressed up." And dress up I did. But then about 20 years ago I found a group where I could do it more often and with people who were more interesting (the SCA). Then 6 years ago my dad couldn't wait one more day to die. So now that's all I can remember about the day. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 16:58:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VLwhOL002647 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:58:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLw3cC029759; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLw2K3023213; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VLvxK3023100 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:58:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from 204.127.135.30 ([204.127.135.30]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2003103121575411200koa9le>; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:57:54 +0000 Received: from [167.88.200.30] by 204.127.135.30; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:57:54 +0000 From: mmcnealy@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moire silk source Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:57:54 +0000 Message-Id: <103120032157.20277.220d@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 10 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: bW1jbmVhbHlAYXR0Lm5ldA== X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually I just did a google search on it, and put in a request for a whole bunch of books from the library on silk. Basically, from what I have found so far, watered silk appears to be made by wetting silk and putting it through a rolling mill, the pressure on where the threads cross is what creates the patterns in the fabric. The treatment is after the silk is woven, for moire patterns, the thread is treated before weaving. -Marion > watered silk is made, as I understand it, by dying just the warp > threads. > > I was thinking one could make a wood grain with two failles and a > professional steam iron - it would be a true pain, but I think you > could get the pressure you need. Maybe I'm nuts, though! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 17:07:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VM7FOL002687 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:07:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VM6jcC000540; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:06:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VM6hK3000244; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:06:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VM6dK3029995 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:06:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 379827 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:06:34 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:11:21 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3FA269CA.12967.F5C3F84@localhost> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 10/31/03 1:55 PM, "kat@grendal.rain.com" wrote: > >> What are you dressing up as tonight? > I usually dress up here at work, but I didn't this time. Seven people have come to see what I was wearing and were disappointed when I was just wearing black with a Dio de Los Muertos necklace. I've been building a costume for my younger daughter for tonight and didn't have the time to make something new. Terry decided she wanted to be a bowl of strawberries. She's all in red with a red knit cap. We build a bowl of hoop wire and a flower-printed fabric that gathers and hang just right at her knees. I bought some large balloons and covered them with several tones of red printed fabric and then put the required green felt tops on them. Took scrap felt and rolled it, glued it and glued that to the tops of the strawberries to make stems. Now all I have to do is make certain that the suspenders hit in the right spot and attach the balloon fabric to the bowl so they don't float away while she trick-and-treats. I'm really thankful I didn't have average children; their costume ideas for Halloween are always inventive and challenging. People have often thought I made up the ideas for their costumes just so I could build them, but it's always been up to them to decide what they wanted to be and my job to make it so. LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 17:09:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VM9mOL002696 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:09:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VM8icC000714; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:08:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VM8hK3001779; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:08:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VM8eK3001701 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:08:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.177.21a594f7 (16484) for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:08:33 -0500 (EST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Message-ID: <177.21a594f7.2cd43761@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:08:33 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] book on medival shoemaking To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, as someone that is contemplating doing the same thing with gloves this is something that I have been thinking of. Chiara, interested in collaborating?? I've got a lot of research here on period (medieval and Renaissance) hand coverings ... Nancy *********************************************************** Nancy Spies Ingvild Josefsdatter, OL Arelate Studio Barony of Bright Hills, Atlantia http://www.weavershand.com/ArelateStudio.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 17:10:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VMAJOL002700 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:10:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VM9acC000801; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:09:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VM9aK3002424; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:09:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VM9YK3002386 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:09:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.22]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:08:50 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Moire silk source Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:09:43 -0500 Message-ID: <006901c39ffb$b11f92f0$3d48ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <150.260c9681.2cd43322@aol.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nope. That's another technique. I always called it "warp printed" but there's a Japanese name for it too. It creates a fuzzy, out of focus pattern, usually of flowers. >>>> It's called "ikat" and that's not actually the Japanese name for it. I believe it was originally a Middle Eastern technique. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 17:11:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VMB9OL002707 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:11:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VMAQcC000911; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:10:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VMAQK3003093; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:10:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VMAMK3003033 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:10:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05168 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:34:15 -0600 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:34:15 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moire silk source In-Reply-To: <150.260c9681.2cd43322@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > The real watered silk I've seen looks like the mark you get if you let > water pool on silk....a faint line at the edge of the pool after it > dries. I often wondered if you had some kind of rack with parallel > dowels with spaces between and you laid the silk on it, wet it, and > let it pool in the valleys between the dowels, let it dry, do it > several times [with different water levels] you'd get a moire effect. > But I'm making this up so who knows? Someone I have reason to trust once described it to me as a process with rocks and weights (to raise and lower parts of the fabric) in a wide pool of water. But I don't know where she heard this, so I can't cite it definitively. Dowels would create more of a line of patterns, like today's rolled "wood-grain" looks. Paintings of watered silk look more like patterns of wavy circles around randomly placed centers, as you describe: > I've seen a watered silk that was not moire in pattern but more like random > circular areas that overlapped. And the fabric was folded when it was done > because it made 4 mirror images of the random pattern across the fabric. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 17:12:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VMCNOL002711 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:12:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VMBZcC001044; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:11:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VMBZK3003959; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:11:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VMBVK3003844 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:11:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from Widowweeds@cs.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.57.242860e8 (15703) for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:11:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from tlininn (adslct226.cofs.net [66.77.170.226]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (v97.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID54-3d573fa2de03128; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:11:15 -0500 Message-ID: <003b01c39ffb$e6cdcac0$6401a8c0@tlininn> From: "Widow Weeds" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FA269CA.12967.F5C3F84@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:11:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-AOL-IP: 66.77.170.226 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > 20 years ago I found a group where I could do it more often and with > people who were more interesting (the SCA). Oh, ain't that the truth. I still have the first traced tunic from my SCA days, back in the day - was it 1300? :) More like 1988. I enjoy this holiday immensely, as I gave up on Halloween in my teen years and realized I was missing all sorts of fun. I'm tickled that adults are so into it these days - it gives me a chance to offer costuming advice which consists of more than "go to the store and buy one." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 17:12:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VMCjOL002716 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:12:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VMC3cC001107; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:12:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VMC2K3004419; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VMBwK3004318 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:11:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip127.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.127]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20B416F9C7 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:11:55 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:11:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moire silk source Message-ID: <3FA26DAF.26256.F6B75CE@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <103120032116.14662.5f37@att.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Right, the original dress was made out of watered silk, moire being > the closest thing to it in the current fabric vocabulary that I could > think of. > > Does anyone have an idea on how to make this? I don't think its as > simple as just getting it wet, I have washed silk before and it > doesn't end up with wavy patterns. Is it perhaps a type of staining > using wine or an acidic water for the patterning? Watered silk wasn't made by getting water on it, but by making a pattern on it which looked like water. Before the 18th C this was done by rubbing a fabric with a prominent rib (like a silk faille or some weaves of wool) with glass balls or other smooth hard objects (from Roman times onward). After that it was also made by putting it through a press made with 2 cylinders which squished the fabric between them as it was cranked through with heat and/or moisture in a process called calendering. Until man made fibres which would actually fuse with the heat (such as acetates), it didn't tend to be a permanent finish. > I think I see another research project on the horizon. Unfortunately, I can't find which of my many textile books talk about it extensively. The one I could find with a fast search of my "stacks" is: _The Final Steps_ by Beverly Gordon ISBN 0-934026-07-6 put out by Interweave Press, Inc. Hopefully that will give you a place to start, although I've read about the process in many other textile books where they talk about it more extensively. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 17:13:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VMDBOL002719 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:13:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VMB8cC000993; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:11:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VMB8K3003623; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:11:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9VMB4K3003524 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:11:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OrCHcXC4eNaLf16c7RLOWKU=">; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:10:23 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JDUR79M7; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:10:23 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:47:31 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing") Message-ID: <20031031.141002.872.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I am doing a book on medival shoemaking. There will be several > sections in > which processes will be demonstrated. My plan has been to have the > model in > clothing appropriate to the period being discussed - nothing > exciting, just > pretty dull working class clothing. Will this be too big a > distraction from > the goal of the book, will it be too "cute", it wouldn't look right > with > someone in modern dress doing it, any thoughts? > > Marc Yup. Your instincts are right--dress someone appropriately for the shoes. And let us know when your book comes out! ;) Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 17:30:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VMUqOL002769 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:30:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VMUDcC003643; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:30:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VMUAK3019449; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:30:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VMU3K3019350 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:30:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.161.117] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A1A6183C00D4; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:26:46 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3FA2D166.7050300@reddawn.net> References: <3FA2D166.7050300@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:33:18 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >What are you dressing up as tonight? > >My husband and I and two of our best friends all did late Victorian >this year, 1893-ish. I hope the photos come out! > >Dawn fun! Antoinio Vivaldi here.... had a violin lesson this morning, learning Concerto in B minor for four violins, so I couldn't resist.... Faked knee breeches with leggings, have good white hose, beautiful buckle shoes made by a guy in Pennsylvania who does 'em RIGHT, a fake waistcoat and a frock coat done with Richard The Threads' pattern out of left over brocade from my office drapes, lined with silk left over from my craft room drapes. ;-D Pattern really doesn't work for me.... gotta completely re-do it so it fits right.... it's meant for men with no hips, after all... ;-D And I'm sure I'm not even CLOSE to accurate....But hey, it's Halloween, not an SCA meeting, so given that, I'm feeling pretty Vivaldi today! Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 17:54:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VMsNOL002843 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:54:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VMrPcC007064; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:53:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VMrOK3008856; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:53:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f110.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VMrKK3008747 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:53:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:53:15 -0800 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:53:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:53:15 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Oct 2003 22:53:15.0518 (UTC) FILETIME=[C4E3C9E0:01C3A001] Subject: [h-cost] Re: since it's Hallow'een X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I made a 1960's mod type little black dress with yellow stripes that accentuate my pregnant body very well. Then made wings with wire and jumbo black panty hose. I've got black fishnet stockings on and huge round plastic sunglasses and 1960's style make up. My crowning glory is the 45 minutes my mom (she in town visiting for a few weeks!!!) spent ratting and spraying my hair into this giant beehive hairdo! I'm a bumble bee! We had a costume constest at work and I just won! A brand new Palm Pilot!!! Pretty cool, huh? What is everyone one else? :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ Send instant messages to anyone on your contact list with MSN Messenger 6.0. Try it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 17:58:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VMwSOL002873 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:58:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VMvncC007788; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:57:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VMvm2f012326; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:57:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VMvg2f012116 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:57:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from 204.127.135.30 ([204.127.135.30]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2003103122573711200kngmee>; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:57:37 +0000 Received: from [167.88.200.30] by 204.127.135.30; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:57:36 +0000 From: mmcnealy@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moire silk source Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:57:36 +0000 Message-Id: <103120032257.5525.3891@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 10 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: bW1jbmVhbHlAYXR0Lm5ldA== X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Kat, I will check out this book and do a hunt for others. - Marion, (aka Sophia K from Madrone) > Watered silk wasn't made by getting water on it, but by making a > pattern on it which looked like water. > > Before the 18th C this was done by rubbing a fabric with a prominent > rib (like a silk faille or some weaves of wool) with glass balls or > other smooth hard objects (from Roman times onward). After that it > was also made by putting it through a press made with 2 cylinders > which squished the fabric between them as it was cranked through with > heat and/or moisture in a process called calendering. Until man made > fibres which would actually fuse with the heat (such as acetates), it > didn't tend to be a permanent finish. > > > I think I see another research project on the horizon. > > Unfortunately, I can't find which of my many textile books talk about > it extensively. The one I could find with a fast search of my > "stacks" is: > > _The Final Steps_ by Beverly Gordon ISBN 0-934026-07-6 put out by > Interweave Press, Inc. > > Hopefully that will give you a place to start, although I've read > about the process in many other textile books where they talk about > it more extensively. > > Kat > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 18:08:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VN8ROL002904 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:08:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VN7kcC009376; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:07:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VN7h2f021099; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:07:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VN7e2f020989 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:07:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B76A425CE for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:12:13 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FA2EBC6.7050406@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:09:58 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een References: <3FA2D166.7050300@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rima wrote: > > But hey, it's Halloween, not an > SCA meeting, My thoughts exactly. (Not to bash on the SCA, but I have lots of opportunities throughout the year to wear those costumes.) So for this night I like to try something different. The Victorian is the first historical I've done for the holiday in quite a few years. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 18:20:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VNKnOL002924 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:20:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VNKAcC011048; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:20:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VNK92f000969; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:20:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VNK62f000929 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:20:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.142.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.142] helo=4gxif) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AFiYm-0006fu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:20:04 -0500 Message-ID: <019e01c3a005$8d839f80$8ef74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200310310322.h9V3MFC2023243@net.indra.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:20:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] Now.. Amish strippers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carol wrote: > >'orrible Halloween thought--Amish strippers...... > > > >I'll just slink off now > > Speaking of Amish stripper, anyone else seen "The Night They Raided Minsky's"? -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 18:37:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9VNbqOL002981 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:37:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VNbFcC014050; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:37:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VNbC2f013482; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:37:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f82.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9VNb92f013383 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:37:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:37:04 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.78 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:37:04 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.78] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:37:04 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Oct 2003 23:37:04.0527 (UTC) FILETIME=[E3E6B9F0:01C3A007] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I appreciate the comments so far and let me sort of lump a bunch of answers here in one spot. I know what Robin means and I'm really not terribly concerned about the clothing looking right - however trying to find a non-jarring background is driving me nuts. OTOH, I know that if I were to reach back in time, pluck a shoemaker from 1300 to the present day, along with his setting and photgraph HIM, someone would find something to complain about. That's just the way it is. I can't please everyone, so at best I can try to keep the majority at least content (i.e not making perfection the enemy of the good). OTOH, I respect that done wrong it's going to look cartoony and that will lower its credebility. The book is intended as a general history of medieval shoemaking, as *I* think it was done, based on all that research crap and experience :) (the working title is "Medieval Shoemaking, History and Techniques") That means that I'm not doing this with 'modern' tools unless I have too. Unfortuntaely this means that there's going to be a lot of educated speculation, reconstructed tools, and so on no matter what I chose to do. (the field is such that if I stuck to only those things that we absolutely KNOW unequvocally that they did, it would be about two pages long). I I've considered using the drawings only, but I know that for some of the techniques that I'd like to present photographs really are required. I hadn't considered whether having accurate clothes and medieval tools is going to intimidate people OUT of trying medieval shoe, but at this point the field is pretty well divided between those who would do it with accurate tools and techniques if they just knoew how, and those who wouldn't. This is really trying to bring together all the research and knowledge as it stands to day for those who really are wanting it. The people who just want to do "period shoes" in whatever way is easiest for them (and don't get me wrong, I want to encourage them as well -- the more people out of tennis shoes, the better), are not going tot be convinced no matter how easy I make it look. Not to mention that I want the book to be of interest to the Calceological community as well, and if I show them "Medieval Shoes" made with modern shoes or techniques, they will fall on their rears laughing and the other kids will make fun of me on the playground :) Fran, the contract is with the Chivalry Bookshelf, who were nice enough to make me an offer for an as yet unwritten manuscript (and yes, we've played all the appropriate contract games and everyone and their lawyers seem to be happy) Marc _________________________________________________________________ Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account has exceeded its 2MB storage limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 19:02:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA101xOL003051 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:02:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1017cC016915; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:01:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1016DJ029882; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:01:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1012DK029791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:01:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-200.sonic.net [209.148.112.200]) (authenticated bits=0)hA100ttq007223 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:00:56 -0800 Message-ID: <3FA2F85F.1000801@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:03:43 -0800 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > OTOH, I respect that done wrong it's going to look cartoony and that will lower its credebility. There are far too many people on the historic costuming community who can't tell the difference between a bad book or film or event, and one that just isn't tailored to them as a market, or which isn't done exactly the way they'd have written/directed/run it themselves, or that in short has a different focus than they'd like. But, which does do well what it set out to do. So no matter what your book is like, anyone who wants to pick holes in it will find some way to do so. Then again there is no need to be on the defensive about this. You must fulfill the expectations you set for yourself and your publisher, but you don't have to fulfull everyone's. A common "neutral" background for photos is the Great Outdoors, often a local park if your back yard is not suitable. The theory is probably that the Great Outdoors hasn't changed much over the centuries, a point I'd dispute. But it may be less jarring than an interior background with modern furniture etc. You get good natural light . . . .on the other hand this time of year the weather may be crummy. Who is the Chivalry Bookshelf? Are they a division of the Chivalry Sports catalog? Fran > Not to mention that I want the book to be of interest to the > Calceological community as well, and if I show them "Medieval Shoes" > made with modern shoes or techniques, they will fall on their rears > laughing and the other kids will make fun of me on the playground :) > > Fran, the contract is with the Chivalry Bookshelf, who were nice > enough to make me an offer for an as yet unwritten manuscript (and > yes, we've played all the appropriate contract games and everyone and > their lawyers seem to be happy) > > Marc > > > -- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 19:04:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA104QOL003056 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:04:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA103kcC017207; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:03:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA103iDJ001724; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:03:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA103gDJ001674 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:03:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VClcFYe2+Is3HeUrVY4hAuUXL4bbpH0L08g==">; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:03:15 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JDUYNXK2; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:03:15 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:55:43 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: How high on thigh socks come? Message-ID: <20031031.175543.-165279251.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-20 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Am I the only one who finds that shopping for Amish stuff on the Internet is just wrong in so many ways????!!!! Karen On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:29:25 -0800 Rima writes: > Do y'all know about this site???? > http://www.friendspatterns.net/friendscatalog1.html > Found it by accident. Naturally, wanna buy everything here, even > though this is not my thing at all.... it's just irresistible! > > Rima > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 19:13:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA10DbOL003073 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:13:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10D0cC017875; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10D0DJ006872; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:13:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10CvDJ006801 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:12:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.18a.21606af9 (4410) for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:12:36 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <18a.21606af9.2cd45474@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:12:36 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] On the Subject of "Documentation" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello all, I'm hoping this is considered "On topic", as it relates to documenting a historical costume. I'm creating an Elizabethan gown, and I've never really done documentation before. This is for a competition where documentation matters, and I have a limited amount of time (the competition is CC22 in April, but I'm a college student. Studies come first, must be able to feed my addiction later!). I suppose what I'm really looking for are tips on documentation- while I was at CC21 I went to a lecture, but the notes I took are 400 miles away. The limit is 4 typed pages, but I remember the lecturer (whom, I believe, was with AlterYears) spoke of appendices- and that we could have as many of those as we wanted. So...is anyone willing to share a few tips on "good" documentation techniques, in terms of presentation and whatnot? Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 19:15:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA10FnOL003086 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:15:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10FGcC017995; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:15:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10FFDJ008184; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:15:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10FCDJ008119 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:15:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_dev1.2.) id 6.128.3413cddb (15887) for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:15:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-m20.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.136]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v97.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID82-3e0f3fa2fb04317; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:15:01 -0500 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:15:00 -0500 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <48AAEDC8.14905812.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Luther X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Has anyone seen this movie? http://www.lutherthemovie.com/flash/luther.html Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 19:19:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA10JhOL003108 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:19:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10J7cC018288; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:19:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10J6DJ010081; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:19:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav51.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10J2DJ010020 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:19:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:18:57 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav51.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 00:18:56 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moire silk source Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:16:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Nov 2003 00:18:57.0305 (UTC) FILETIME=[BDA23890:01C3A00D] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Warning: I suspect they use the word "silk" loosely. But they offer > samples. I've seen a friend's sample set, and there would be enough to > subject a part of a swatch to a bleach test to find out whether a specific > brocade is the real thing. Could you please remind us how the bleach test works? Thanks. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 19:30:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA10U5OL003181 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:30:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10TUcC018821; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:29:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10TTDJ015767; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:29:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10TQDJ015690 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:29:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_dev1.2.) id 6.1d0.136f2260 (15887) for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:29:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-m16.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.132]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v97.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID82-3e0f3fa2fe55259; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:29:09 -0500 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:29:09 -0500 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing") MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <707F0586.2DD19B2F.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/31/2003 3:25:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, marccarlson20@hotmail.com writes: > I am doing a book on medival shoemaking. There will be several sections in > which processes will be demonstrated. My plan has been to have the model in > clothing appropriate to the period being discussed - nothing exciting, just > pretty dull working class clothing. Will this be too big a distraction from > the goal of the book, will it be too "cute", it wouldn't > look right with > someone in modern dress doing it, any thoughts? Mark, It sounds to me like you have already made up your mind. But, I think having people in historical clothing has the opportunity to be just as distracting. People will critique the clothing, then the tools and such... Personally, I agree, I don't know the either option is the right one. And neither option would keep me from being interested in the book. Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 19:54:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA10skOL003260 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:54:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10r8cC019957; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:53:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10r7DJ027600; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:53:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10r3DJ027537 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:53:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from 39jz301 ([63.139.50.31]) by fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.comESMTP <20031101005229.QASM320036.fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:52:29 -0500 Message-ID: <003501c3a012$c14e5e60$1f328b3f@shprd.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FA2F85F.1000801@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:54:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [63.139.50.31] using ID at Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:52:29 -0500 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > Who is the Chivalry Bookshelf? Are they a division of the Chivalry > Sports catalog? > > Fran Not at all, as far as I know. Chivalry Bookshelf started out mainly publishing things related to historic combat studies--including editions of extant manuals, collections of papers on historic combat, an edition of Llull's "Book of Chivalry" a book on Paul of Bellatrix's fighting techniques, etc. They have recently expressed interest in branching out to related fields, including clothing (Brian Price, who is one of the people behind Chivalry Bookshelf, told me at Kalamazoo they'd really *love* a book on making things like pourpoints, arming cotes, and other combat stuff that is solidly researched.) They're good folks, and their books are nicely done. Like DISTAFF, they've started sponsoring sessions at Kalamazoo. (I jokingly call them the DISTAFF Men's Auxilliary :-) Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 19:57:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA10vDOL003263 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:57:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10uecC020120; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:56:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10udjG029259; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:56:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10uZjG029177 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:56:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.7e.40a45477 (16086) for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:56:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-m16.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.132]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (v97.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID103-3ed63fa304bd1d8; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:56:29 -0500 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:56:28 -0500 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0FDAA774.1742EE4E.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] LA Garment District X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey Rima, Willing to share Vendor names? Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 19:59:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA10xGOL003266 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:59:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10wfcC020289; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:58:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10wejG000332; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:58:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10wbjH000300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:58:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA10x2OS001696 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:59:03 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA10x1R8001694 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:59:01 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing" Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:59:01 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <003301c39fbf$a1a87e90$3d48ccd1@Kass> In-Reply-To: <003301c39fbf$a1a87e90$3d48ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310311959.01532.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 31 October 2003 09:59 am, Kass McGann wrote: [snip] [third-party quote] >Besides, > the guide > is in danger of knocking things off tables with her skirts. > > Pul-eeze! Only if she's a complete cluts! But some women are. Did you see the recent movie "Anna and the King" with Jodie Foster as Anna? "Anna" is set in the 1860's, the height of the wide round-bottomed crinolines, and Foster was so awkward in them, it was pathetic. (Particularly since her character was supposed to be a proper Englishwoman who would have been dealing with them for years....) It's possible to be intelligent and still not have a clue as to how to move well in a large skirt. :-) > I can't disagree with you there. But he goes on to almost completely > contradict himself and say that accurate reproduction clothing is > important. If you're going to do it, do it right. > > How big, exactly, does he think "Victorian" clothing is I wonder... That may not be the issue. The issue may be how small the rooms are, and how much furniture is in them. My recollection is that late Victorian parlors tended to be small and crowded with furniture, and abounded in what we now call knick-knacks of every description. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 20:00:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA110ZOL003273 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:00:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10xscC020460; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:59:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10xsjG000990; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:59:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA10xpjH000973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:59:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA110EOS001711 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:00:16 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA110Civ001709 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:00:12 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moire silk source Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:00:12 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <006901c39ffb$b11f92f0$3d48ccd1@Kass> In-Reply-To: <006901c39ffb$b11f92f0$3d48ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310312000.12665.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 31 October 2003 05:09 pm, Kass McGann wrote: > Nope. That's another technique. I always called it "warp printed" but > there's > a Japanese name for it too. It creates a fuzzy, out of focus pattern, > usually > of flowers. > > It's called "ikat" and that's not actually the Japanese name for it. I > believe it was originally a Middle Eastern technique. Huh. I thought the term "ikat" it was Indonesian. At any event, the use of ikat is not confined to silk. It's also done with cotton, particularly in Indonesia and other parts of SE Asia. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 20:07:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA117IOL003282 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:07:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA116fcC020854; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:06:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA116fjG004273; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:06:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA116bjG004223 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:06:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06084 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:30:30 -0600 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:30:30 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Bleach test for silk/wool (was: Moire silk source) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wrote: > > Warning: I suspect they use the word "silk" loosely. But they offer > > samples. I've seen a friend's sample set, and there would be enough to > > subject a part of a swatch to a bleach test to find out whether a specific > > brocade is the real thing. Audrey wrote: > Could you please remind us how the bleach test works? Thanks. Here it is as I posted a while ago: ----- Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 00:51:46 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] burn test question/properties of rayon On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, [iso-8859-1] Bella wrote: > Can someone please point me in the direction of > instructions/directions on how to perform the "bleach test"? Sounds > fascinating and definitely something I'd love to learn. :) Very easy. I learned it on this list, I think. I knocked the socks off my manager at the shop, because we had no way before this to differentiate a pure wool from a wool-and-natural-fiber blend. Wool and silk dissolve in bleach. Cotton, rayon, and linen do not. Do a burn test first to identify synthetics (hard bead or plastic residue). If you have a natural fiber, narrow it down by doing the following. Cut a small swatch -- half an inch square, or larger if you've got multiple types of threads (e.g. a stripe or plaid) so you can get samples of all the threads in one swatch. Put a little bleach (maybe 1/2 inch) in a small jar (like a baby food jar) or a glass/pyrex custard cup, and add the swatch. I use a toothpick or plastic spoon to poke the swatch down so it's wet through. Leave it for a few hours or overnight. Wool will disappear completely -- the bleach will look perfectly clear. Silk will disappear but usually leave a bit of residue. (Perhaps that's the seracin?) Cotton, linen, and rayon will remain intact, though may lose their color. A blend will dissolve in parts. For instance, in a wool/rayon blend where each thread is made of multiple fibers, the wool fibers will dissolve and you'll end up with a tangled mess of rayon fibers. If you have a fabric where whole threads of wool or silk are interwoven with whole threads of a non-animal fiber, such as some plaids or checks, you can get a nice grid pattern remaining, with empty spots in the interlacing where the animal fiber used to be. If one fiber is warp and one is weft, you'll end up with a row of the non-animal fibers lined up neatly in the bottom of the cup. It's fun to watch this happening. Wool will fizz slightly, like when you put peroxide on a cut. Check on it every little while and poke it with the toothpick to break up the fibers if necessary; it can take a while for the bleach to penetrate a thick fabric. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 20:19:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA11J1OL003299 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:19:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA11HGcC021308; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:17:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA11HFjG009205; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:17:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA11HBjH009132 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:17:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA11GgPX009563 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:16:42 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:16:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FA309CC.1050300@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:18:04 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc Carlson wrote: > clothing looking right - however trying to find a non-jarring background > is driving me nuts. Stone walls? Gothic panels inside a nearby church? As far as the clothes, why not simplify your problem: show the shoes from the knees down? Your model can wear the proper hosen, garters, etc, and not worry about the rest, plus you'd get a larger picture of the shoes if you're not showing the whole person. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 20:19:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA11JYOL003306 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:19:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA11J3cC021399; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:19:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA11J2jG010017; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA11IxjG009966 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06182 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:42:52 -0600 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:42:52 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction In-Reply-To: <003501c3a012$c14e5e60$1f328b3f@shprd.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: > Like DISTAFF, they've started sponsoring sessions at Kalamazoo. (I jokingly > call them the DISTAFF Men's Auxilliary :-) Tee hee. I hadn't heard that. Especially funny since one of their session organizers (female!) gave a paper in a DISTAFF session last year (when we had a whole session on martial clothing, including a paper on practical issues of poupoints/gambesons/arming cotes). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 20:25:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA11PjOL003319 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:25:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA11LJcC021631; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:21:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA11LJjG011417; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:21:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA11LIjG011401 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:21:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.98] (pm7-098.eos.net [205.133.149.98]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA11LEN4000448 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:21:15 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:23:04 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200310312116.h9VLGrlL018148@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: marc's question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would not find the appropriate period clothes distracting. I love books that show people in really accurate clothing, and I don't find it intimidating. I would go for it! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 20:26:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA11QROL003322 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:26:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA11PscC022096; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:25:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA11PsjG014241; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:25:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA11PnjG014133 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:25:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06235 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:49:40 -0600 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:49:40 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: How high on thigh socks come? In-Reply-To: <20031031.175543.-165279251.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > Am I the only one who finds that shopping for Amish stuff on the Internet > is just wrong in so many ways????!!!! I was less confused when I saw the catalog wasn't just Amish -- it covered Mennonite too. When I was in college, I used to date a young man who was Mennonite; he was studying computer science and had an on-campus job as a programmer. On Sundays, we'd drive a half-hour into the countryside to join his family for church and Sunday dinner. None of them seemed to have any trouble stepping from one world into the other. As for the pattern company, I expect their Amish clients shop from a paper version of the catalog. It also looks like most of the catalog is not on-line -- I saw only the three dresses. I'd love to see the rest. There's an email address on the site, but no reference to how to get the catalog or see any of the other patterns. My guess is that if you have to ask, you don't belong there... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 20:29:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA11TsOL003352 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:29:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA11TDcC022291; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:29:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA11TCjG015709; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:29:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA11TAjG015692 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:29:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.98] (pm7-098.eos.net [205.133.149.98]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA11T9N4002883 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:29:09 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:31:04 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200311010058.hA10wnjH000424@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re2: marc's question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If it's for Chivalry Bookshelf, then definitely period clothes. Most, if not all, of their books include pictures of people in period clothes. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 20:35:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA11ZUOL003360 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:35:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA11YrcC022552; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:34:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA11YqjG018165; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:34:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA11YnjG018141 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:34:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06287 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:58:42 -0600 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:58:42 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction In-Reply-To: <3FA309CC.1050300@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > As far as the clothes, why not simplify your problem: show the shoes > from the knees down? Your model can wear the proper hosen, garters, > etc, and not worry about the rest, plus you'd get a larger picture of > the shoes if you're not showing the whole person. Marc will correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression was that Marc was asking how best to handle photographs of shoemaking techniques, not finished shoes on models. So the focus (if I understand correctly) would be on the craftsman's use of tools and materials (e.g. how to hold things, how to use a tool, working position, etc.), not on the look of the craftsman himself, which would be incidental. There's a legitimate concern that it might be distracting (and maybe a misplaced effort) to try to achieve a period look with the craftsman (clothes, hair, facial and body type, etc.) as well as his workspace (table, the chair, walls, lighting, etc.). I'd agree that for photos of shoes on a model, the model (or what shows of him/her) should be dressed in correct period to the shoes. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 20:41:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA11fiOL003366 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:41:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA11f8cC022931; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:41:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA11f7jG020985; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:41:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA11f5jG020975 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:41:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-44-137.jps.net ([209.165.44.137] helo=pavilion) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AFklE-0004Yj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:41:05 -0800 Message-ID: <003601c3a019$e4c750c0$892ca5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing") Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:45:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think an accurate model would add to the book and not be a distraction as long as he or she was dressed to match the shoe style. The one thing I get fixated on apart from eyeglasses, is eyebrow styles. Don't know why this stands out for me, but I find it jarring to see anachronistic eyebrows on models. Mind you, I don't alter my eyebrow style for demonstrations, but I guess I don't look at myself. I look forward to your book. Do let us know when it has been published. Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Carlson" To: Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 12:25 PM Subject: [h-cost] Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing") > Ok, I have a weird question that this thread has made me think of. I'm not > sure there's a right answer, but some opinions would be appreciated. > > I am doing a book on medival shoemaking. There will be several sections in > which processes will be demonstrated. My plan has been to have the model in > clothing appropriate to the period being discussed - nothing exciting, just > pretty dull working class clothing. Will this be too big a distraction from > the goal of the book, will it be too "cute", it wouldn't look right with > someone in modern dress doing it, any thoughts? > > Marc > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send instant messages to anyone on your contact list with MSN Messenger > 6.0. Try it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 21:19:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA12IxOL003418 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:18:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA12INcC024494; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:18:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA12IK2s007312; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:18:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA12II2s007253 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:18:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303a (c-24-1-91-95.client.comcast.net[24.1.91.95]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2003110102181101600s7i8he>; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 02:18:12 +0000 Message-ID: <038f01c3a01e$8946fde0$5f5b0118@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <177.21a594f7.2cd43761@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] book on medival shoemaking Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:12:38 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sounds like a plan! :) Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] book on medival shoemaking : : Actually, as someone that is contemplating doing the same thing with : gloves this is something that I have been thinking of. : : Chiara, interested in collaborating?? I've got a lot of research here on : period (medieval and Renaissance) hand coverings ... : : Nancy : : : *********************************************************** : Nancy Spies Ingvild Josefsdatter, OL : Arelate Studio Barony of Bright Hills, Atlantia : http://www.weavershand.com/ArelateStudio.html : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 21:20:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA12KYOL003424 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:20:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA12K0cC024540; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA12K02s007965; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA12Ju2s007889 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:19:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hA12JtON000357 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:19:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.196.65] (as3-4-79.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.65]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA12Jnh9000295 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:19:54 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3fa2d978.a0f0.0@ripco.com> References: <3fa2d978.a0f0.0@ripco.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:02:37 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: [h-cost] Re: since it's Hallow'een716 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 3:51 PM -0600 10/31/03, zski@ripco.com wrote: >I'm wearing my Flemish kirtle and gown, and have already had to pull my >skirts out of the wheels of my desk chair 4 times now. Oh, I can sympathize! The hanging sleeves of St. Bathilde's "grand robe" do _not_ go well with office furniture. I almost chickened out on changing into costume, since pretty much nobody else at the company was wearing one, but got talked into it at the last minute for the company Halloween party. At least one person got in the right neighborhood by identifying me as a "damsel in distress" -- I wasn't exactly expecting anybody to recognize a 7th century Merovingian queen. :) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 21:20:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA12KgOL003428 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:20:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA12K9cC024557; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:20:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA12K82s008045; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:20:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA12Jx2s007952 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:19:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hA12JwON000403 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:19:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.196.65] (as3-4-79.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.65]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA12JnhB000295 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:19:57 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <707F0586.2DD19B2F.0BD9917F@aol.com> References: <707F0586.2DD19B2F.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:22:04 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing") Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO While I understand the concerns in many of the responses, I'll put in my vote for carefully done, accurate historic models adding greatly to the visual pleasure of the book. Good visuals have the potential to catch the interest of a market segment that might not be as thoroughly hooked by line-drawings alone. And it would be a shame if those who have the interest and resources to put out higher-accuracy visuals faltered for fear of being imperfect ... leaving the field to those with less interest and fewer resources. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 23:05:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA145POL003557 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:05:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA144ncC029046; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:04:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA144k77022558; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:04:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from web9406.mail.yahoo.com (web9406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA144i77022537 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:04:44 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031101040444.15389.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.78.208.121] by web9406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:04:44 PST Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:04:44 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Since it's Halloween----and tranistions--- X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well---my retirement party, last night, was a Halloween party:) I had'nt purposefully planned that my last day be Halloweeen--it's just that the timing for me leaving worked out to be best by october 31st:) Considering what I've been doing all these years on the side( historical costumne re-creation) several of my co-workers, as well as my bosses--thought it terribly appropriate. So, today, I also came into work for my last day in costumne. Although I'm usually in medieval or 16th cent spanish or italian mode(lots of SCA) I also play with Victorian and Regency groups. So, I trotted out an 1880's reception bustle gown which I wore both last night and today. Made for some great conversations. Especially since it was a bit of an advertisement for my new 'business' --doing bridals, formals , and historical re-creations. With my bosses' permission I spent today going to all the offices in the area I'd worked in --saying 'goodbye' and handing out my business card as I went. As a side note --I worked in the telephony industry---and had, for years ,been saving all the old used electricion's cable tie wraps to use in corset construction.I even had the fellows on the heavy construction crew all 'trained ' to save me their used (clipped ends) bits:) Well, as I said 'goodbye' to the construction crew----I also mentioned that I was wearing those old cable ties in my costumne much to their amazement and amusement:) Albra --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 23:37:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA14beOL003633 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:37:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA14b4cC000799; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:37:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA14b277006796; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:37:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA14ax77006774 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:36:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AFnVS-0000eP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:36:58 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re:16th century sock clocks? Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:37:03 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c3a031$cd04ee80$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200310311847.h9VIl4wO020274@jefferson.patriot.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hA14ax77006774 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry I missed the original post, but there is a reference to Mary QOS wearing clock worked socks to her execution. There are several Elizabethan portraits of men with "clocked socks." Someone here seems to know some German reference to them (about which I have no knowledge), but I wonder if the term comes from a German one Glock (bell) or Gluck (luck-sorry no umlaut available) . A "bell" shape might refer to the ease mentioned in earlier posts. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 23:40:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA14eBOL003643 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:40:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA14dacC000930; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:39:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA14dZ77007757; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:39:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f38.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA14dX77007712 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:39:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:39:28 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.58 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 04:39:27 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.58] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:39:27 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Nov 2003 04:39:28.0225 (UTC) FILETIME=[22635510:01C3A032] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran, Oh, absolutely - some people will pick at it no matter what. I'm just hoping that I can keep it to a minimum (a naive desire, I know). I know specific people who ARE going to attack it, no matter what I have to say because I'm the one saying it, and several others because it won't be done they way THEY would have done it. I'm ready for them. Outside - now THAT's something I hadn't considered. Thank you , I hadn't considered that. Kit, It's not so much that I've made up my mind already, as that I have a plan and am trying to test it out *before* I've committed things to photographs and wasted materials. I'd just feel more confident if I were doing 18th or 19th century shoemaking. Hmm, if I do the pictures in so-so clothing, maybe this would distract people from the areas where I need to speculate... :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ Want to check if your PC is virus-infected? Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 23:42:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA14g9OL003649 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:42:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA14fWcC001005; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:41:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA14fW77008601; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:41:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA14fU77008590 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:41:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AFnZq-0001KI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:41:30 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sew on Tudor Jewels-painted black diamnonds Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:41:32 -0700 Message-ID: <000101c3a032$6ee6bc10$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hA14fU77008590 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Victoria, congratulations on your 'coming out'! :) Tell us more about diamond cutting if you can. What is it about table cuts that made the diamond look dark? Why were they popular if they were so dull......I have a young man in my biology class that sells diamonds. He is learning too about them, but is having a hard time explaining how they could be so dark and why they were attractive to people.... Sg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Tori Ruhl Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 10:54 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Sew on Tudor Jewels Hello! After lurking for weeks, this is my first official post :) I think these replicas are beautiful, but take into consideration that diamonds were often painted black in portraiture (due to lack of complicated faceting and less light being refracted). So a lot of these replicas that are produced using Onyx are inaccurate. But they do have lovely things! *drool* Victoria Ruhl Jewelry fanatic and wanna-be costumer. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 31 23:49:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA14nIOL003662 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:49:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA14mhcC001539; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:48:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA14mg77011742; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:48:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA14md77011718 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:48:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AFngl-0002Ov-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:48:39 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:48:45 -0700 Message-ID: <000201c3a033$6ef0d8c0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hA14md77011718 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Marc, have you considered taking pictures of people wearing shoes where just the lower leg and shoe are shown? Maybe just a well turned calf and shoe or a discreetly shown shoe and ankle juxtaposed with a painting of the whole outfit would be interesting without being distracting. Might that convey what you are after without all the complications you are considering? Sg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Marc Carlson Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 9:39 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Fran, Oh, absolutely - some people will pick at it no matter what. I'm just hoping that I can keep it to a minimum (a naive desire, I know). I know specific people who ARE going to attack it, no matter what I have to say because I'm the one saying it, and several others because it won't be done they way THEY would have done it. I'm ready for them. Outside - now THAT's something I hadn't considered. Thank you , I hadn't considered that. Kit, It's not so much that I've made up my mind already, as that I have a plan and am trying to test it out *before* I've committed things to photographs and wasted materials. I'd just feel more confident if I were doing 18th or 19th century shoemaking. Hmm, if I do the pictures in so-so clothing, maybe this would distract people from the areas where I need to speculate... :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ Want to check if your PC is virus-infected? Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 00:04:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1541OL003688 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:04:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA153FcC002182; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:03:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA153Ewt017949; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:03:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA153Dwt017892 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:03:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VClcFYe2+Is3HW7b7xJ+XTAohT+vqTdiY5Q==">; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:02:24 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JDVHSPG9; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:02:24 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:54:03 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sew on Tudor Jewels-painted black diamnonds Message-ID: <20031031.225404.-165279251.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 13-18,20-27 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm certainly no expert on diamond cutting, but from the period examples I've seen at the V&A, the cutting technique seems to be fairly simple and much closer to what we think of as an 'emerald cut'. It has far fewer facets so the light isn't reflected into the interior as well. They don't actually look solid black, they look a bit 'smokey'. The overall look is a crystal sort of black (is this making any sense?) and would most effectively be rendered in paint as a greyish black. Actually, diamonds weren't that popular in jewelry during the Elizabethan period, they were considered a bit of a novelty. The colored stones were much more popular, as they showed to advantage even with simpler cutting techniques, as well as pearls and enameling. The era of the diamond didn't really begin until the late 18th-19th century when cutting techniques advanced to the stage where a great deal of light could be reflected within the stone and produce the sparkle we associate with diamonds today. Karen On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:41:32 -0700 "Saragrace T. Knauf" writes: > Hi Victoria, congratulations on your 'coming out'! :) > Tell us more about diamond cutting if you can. What is it about > table cuts > that made the diamond look dark? Why were they popular if they were > so dull......I have a young man in my biology class that sells > diamonds. He is learning too about them, but is having a hard time > explaining how they could be so dark and why they were attractive to > people.... ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 00:06:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA156BOL003692 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:06:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA155ScC002329; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:05:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA155Rwt018839; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:05:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA155Owu018829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:05:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 25720 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2003 05:05:23 -0000 Received: from dap-208-166-66-230.erie-tnt-1.pa.erie.net (HELO castlebooks) ([208.166.66.230]) (envelope-sender )SMTP for ; 1 Nov 2003 05:05:23 -0000 Message-ID: <00ab01c3a035$c35c1ad0$e642a6d0@castlebooks> From: "Janet Davis" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:05:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] incipient shoe book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm glad to hear Chivalry Bookshelf is finding some books on non-martial subjects. For a couple years now, I have been nagging them that while their martial books are very nice, costume people spend WAY more money on books than fighting types. And there is so little competition in medieval and renaissance costume books (i.e. there are only a dozen in print that I could unreservedly recomend). My advice on photos is to get someone who knows what he or she is doing. With all the automated cameras, there are many people who think that since they usually get shots that are properly exposed and in focus, they are capable of doing semi-professional photography. For most of these shots, I would think that you would want shots that come in fairly close to the person's hands. In this situation, a good photographer will focus exculsively on that area and let the background be very blurry. If you are going with black and white for economy's sake, have the final prints printed at a lab that specializes in custom black and white work. (I am thinking of film here - if you are using a digital camera, I don't know anything about it.) Labs that do your 4x6 prints of birthday parties do an awful job of black and white - they have very little call for it and aren't set up for it. If you are in charge of ordering the final prints, try to find out how much contrast they will pick up in the book printing process, as your lab can compensate by making your prints flatter. I will definately be looking forward to seeing this book! Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http://www.medievalbookstore.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 00:53:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA15rmOL003794 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:53:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA15rDcC004323; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:53:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA15rBwt009451; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:53:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA15r9wt009432 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:53:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNN00A5HSCJSI@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:53:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:08:58 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing") In-reply-to: <003601c3a019$e4c750c0$892ca5d1@pavilion> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031031200808.02951688@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 05:45 PM 10/31/2003 -0800, you wrote: >The one thing I get >fixated on apart from eyeglasses, is eyebrow styles. Don't know why this >stands out for me, but I find it jarring to see anachronistic eyebrows on >models. Eyebrows? Why eyebrows? And how would modern eyebrows be anachronistic? This is an area I hadn't heard of before. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 00:53:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA15rvOL003797 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:53:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA15rOcC004341; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:53:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA15rNwt009527; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:53:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA15r9wv009432 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:53:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNN00A5HSCJSI@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:53:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:51:05 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031031215027.02952858@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <3FA269CA.12967.F5C3F84@localhost> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:11 PM 10/31/2003 -0800, you wrote: >but it's >always been up to them to decide what they wanted to be and my job to make >it so. > >LynnD I like your attitude. I hope when my son is old enough to have his opinions, that he too will challenge me on my skills for his Halloween outfits. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 00:54:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA15s5OL003800 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:54:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA15rUcC004358; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:53:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA15rTwt009568; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:53:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA15r9wx009432 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:53:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNN00A5HSCJSI@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:53:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:53:46 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing" In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031031215205.0295a640@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <146.1b834c08.2cd3cb85@aol.com> <146.1b834c08.2cd3cb85@aol.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:20 PM 10/31/2003 -0800, you wrote: >>Pul-eeze! Only if she's a complete cluts! > >Yeah, that bugged me too. Sheesh! Doesn't he think we know how to >manage our garments?????? > >Rima I will admit, the first few times I wore a hoop skirt, I fell flat on my face during processions. It took time and practice to wear the thing ok. I am still having to remember how to walk like a lady, and not like I normally do, which is much more manly. Makes me look like I am stomping about in my hoops if I forget. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 00:54:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA15sPOL003803 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:54:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA15rpcC004431; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:53:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA15rowt009699; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:53:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA15rkwu009658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:53:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA15sDOS002634 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:54:13 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA15sDOv002632 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:54:13 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Since it's Halloween----and tranistions--- Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:54:12 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20031101040444.15389.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031101040444.15389.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311010054.13001.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 31 October 2003 11:04 pm, KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: > Well---my retirement party, last night, was a Halloween party:) I had'nt > purposefully planned that my last day be Halloweeen--it's just that the > timing for me leaving worked out to be best by october 31st:) That's not as bad as what I did once; starting a new job on December 31st. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 01:25:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA16PLOL003848 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 01:25:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA16OhcC005498; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:24:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA16Ofuo021380; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:24:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA16Ocuo021364 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:24:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id hA16QUR10278 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:26:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:26:30 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200311010626.hA16QUR10278@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wore my new coat-of-CDs. I decorate my front porch every year and sit out there. The kids love it and it keeps the older teenagers from vandalizing the neighborhood if they know an adult is outside and watching. The last two years now my morris team, the White Rats, have come to hang out and dance in the front yard. Having a bunch of adults swinging sledge hammers around to accordion music *also* tends to scare away any would-be vandals. ;} It was cold tonight, though at least it didn't rain on us. I wore black knee-length pants, a black velvet shirt, my knee-high buckle boots that have had retroreflective tape applied to the straps, a wool jacket, then the coat of CDs over that. And my blue top hat with all the weird jewelry and ribbon trims on it and glow in the dark fimo jewelry. If you do the GID polymer clays right, you can get what looks like ivory in normal light. Paint black details on that, and it also looks great under blacklight. The front porch was once again the Mad Scientist's Lab. I changed my lighting setup a little this year, so my lab gadget lights didn't clobber the blacklight effects. There was a popular motion for me to add a brain in a jar for the next iteration of The Lab. And I need to add a couple very small battery-powered blacklights on specific items to get the correct effects. The neighborhood kids love my house on Halloween. About five years ago, I did a vodou altar that scared some of the little ones so much that they wouldn't come up the front steps. I didn't quite finish my new coat. It's still missing a row of CDs off the front and I forgot to put the chain closures on it. I had one CD crack and fall off, however it was one I wasn't sure I wanted there in the first place. It felt like it was restricting my arm movement too much. So I left that spot blank on the other side until I was sure. I think I'm sure now. ;} Since Kayta showed up in her tatter coat that was also half finished, I didn't feel too bad. [grin] Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 01:41:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA16fDOL003912 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 01:41:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA16eZcC006052; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:40:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA16eYuo027441; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:40:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA16eVuo027430 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:40:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id hA16gON10408 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:42:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:42:24 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200311010642.hA16gON10408@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing") X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko Small wrote: > > Eyebrows? Why eyebrows? And how would modern eyebrows be anachronistic? > This is an area I hadn't heard of before. There have been many fashionable eyebrow shapes in history. Goodness, just look at glamour photos from the last 60 or 70 years, and you'll see a huge difference by time period. From the 20s straight brow to the 40s almost-invisible high arch, to the late 70s fashion model wings, to the 80s bushy brows. Current fashion appears to be to biased towards a slightly heavier, angle-shaped brow, rather than an arched or straight one. This is the type of thing you notice if you do fashion photography or makeup. For examples of modern styles, Kevin Acouin's "Making Faces" is still one of the better introductions to fashion makeup. Then there's the elizabethan habit of plucking the _hairline_ as well to create a high brow (no plucking required for me). Or the heian japanese fashion for shaved/plucked brows that were redrawn much higher on the forehead. So I can see why someone wearing the most fashionable _current_ brow shape would be jarring if they're in period clothes for a photograph. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 01:44:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA16iIOL003920 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 01:44:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA16hicC006244; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:43:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA16hhuo028669; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:43:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.19.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA16heup028619 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:43:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-115-27.sonic.net [209.148.115.27]) (authenticated bits=0)hA16hXue012680 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:43:34 -0800 Message-ID: <3FA356BD.6070200@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:46:21 -0800 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO IMO you need to get beyond the idea of who will attack the book--and stick firmly with the idea of who will buy it and find it useful. Sure a few people will attack you, because they don't like you personally or they're jealous or whatever. Who cares? It's hard to explain, but I think you have or will gain a sound internal sense of whether your book is good or not. And your editor will give you external feedback. Also, the book will be marketed to large numbers of people, and I assume your publisher will be printing and selling some thousands of copies. (Did they tell you how many?) The vast majority of readers give no feedback at all. If thousands of them have bought the book and not complained, and one person flames you on the net because they didn't like the hairstyles on your models, it's the majority of (quietly satisfied) readers who really count. Even if you're not Danielle Steele (and with a topic like medieval shoemaking you will never have her sales) you're still playing a numbers game. You need to choose your audience and focus on them. The better you focus on one audience, inevitably the less well you will focus on others. You may be able to write a book that is well focused for two audiences, maybe even more; but not many. It would help to first sort them into major and minor audiences, and do most of your work for the major audiences. Then mention the minor ones in the marketing copy (back cover, etc., if you are involved with that) knowing that some, but relatively few, people in the minor audiences will buy the book. I don't know how much interaction you have with your editor at this point. I spent some years as a developmental/project editor for a midsize book publisher. Throughout each project we held our authors' hands as much as necessary; which for some was quite a lot. If your editor is willing to help you at this stage, he or she may have very useful advice on how to use photos, and suchlike, based on their experience editing other books, and how they produce their books (do they want interior color, for example?). They may even recommend photographers. BTW, get them to pay for all photographic costs if you can.. Your editor may also have some very helpful ideas on the best audiences for the book and how to appeal to them. Fran ------------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 01:54:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA16sEOL003954 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 01:54:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA16rZcC006574; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:53:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA16rXuo002585; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:53:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA16rVuo002552 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:53:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74F40425D0 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 01:58:08 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FA358FC.5080805@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 00:55:56 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een References: <200311010626.hA16QUR10278@gw.retro.com> In-Reply-To: <200311010626.hA16QUR10278@gw.retro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I got a picture... http://www.reddawn.net/costume/halloween/Mvc-877f.jpg Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 02:00:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA170LOL003985 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 02:00:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA16xkcC006860; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:59:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA16xipD005122; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:59:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA16xgpD005095 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:59:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-239-173.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.239.173])hA16xc9t019399 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:59:41 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031031223415.00d90420@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:35:05 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Was Clocks now Graph Paper In-Reply-To: <3FA2148C.10345.E0F4767@localhost> References: <4.3.1.2.20031031004237.05107ad0@mail.frys.com> <02ad01c39f51$b4d919c0$93f74a43@4gxif> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >http://www.mathematicshelpcentral.com/graph_paper.htm > > > > Knitting needs a rectangular grid, not a square one. But thanx > > anyway. > >Have you looked at the program? Yes, which is why I responded as I did. But if you say this program can generate rectangular grids, I'll look further into it. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 02:00:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA170TOL003988 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 02:00:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA16xtcC006875; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:59:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA16xspD005193; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:59:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA16xhpD005113 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:59:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-239-173.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.239.173])hA16xc9v019399 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:59:42 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031031223601.00d91720@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:37:05 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:16th century sock clocks? In-Reply-To: <3FA2A11C.9050500@comcast.net> References: <200310310322.h9V3MFC1023243@net.indra.com> <200310310322.h9V3MFC1023243@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Knit stockings being so new in the 1500s, other than in the Germanic >countries, I can't imagine them being imitated/faked with embroidery for >decoration quite that early (in England they didn't show up until around >Queen Elizabeth's time... and even then they're pretty rare... sigh... I'd >been trying to come up with a Henry VIII character for faire that would >knit. No luck unless German.) Knitting is older than knit stockings. Your character could knit caps like the ones found on the Mary Rose. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 02:00:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA170dOL003991 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 02:00:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1702cC006896; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:00:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1702pD005301; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:00:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA16xjpD005127 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:59:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-239-173.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.239.173])hA16xc9x019399 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:59:44 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031031224206.00d91190@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:43:27 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing" In-Reply-To: <20031031182404.85299.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> References: <002d01c39fb7$74e93d20$3d48ccd1@Kass> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >A case in point: last time I visited the site, I noticed that Mount >Vernon's tour guides were dressed (at least, in summer) in khaki >slacks and a green polo shirt with the site's logo on it. > >They also had one or two people in accurate historical costume doing >a first-person impression -- the woman I encountered was portraying >Lady Fairfax. > >I think this is the best of both worlds. The site doesn't have to >spend a lot of money clothing the tour guides, but the tourists get >to encounter someone doing a high-quality, well-researched >first-person impression. And, after all, tourists do want to see >someone in costume when they go to a site. Some museum and historical site folks don't want to dress up in costumes. Having these people in in modern clothes makes them naturals for answering the questions the folks in the costumes can't, in character, answer. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 02:00:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA170hOL003994 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 02:00:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1707cC006914; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:00:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1707pD005354; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:00:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA16xnpD005158 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:59:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-239-173.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.239.173])hA16xcA1019399 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:59:46 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031031224414.00d98db0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:45:52 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: How high on thigh socks come? In-Reply-To: References: <200310310322.h9V3MFC2023243@net.indra.com> <200310310322.h9V3MFC2023243@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>Are you knitting from the toe up? I always thought sox were knitted from >>the top down. Do you have documentation on toe-up knitting? I'd love to >>see it, as it would make several things easier. >> >> >Carol, with a knee warmer rapidly turning into a sock! > >Nope top down, carefully sliding tube + needles over chunky leg to measure >& check fit... wondering how high up the thigh the sock should go... Thanx. And yes, I have the same problem making the socks the right size the first time. The second sock is always easier and faster... >'orrible Halloween thought--Amish strippers...... > >I'll just slink off now EEEWWW! Yes, I think you'd better slink off somewhere ;) CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 02:01:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1717OL004058 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 02:01:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA170WcC006951; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:00:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA170VpD005578; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:00:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA16xqpD005181 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:59:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-239-173.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.239.173])hA16xcA5019399 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:59:50 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031031224907.00da2100@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:50:37 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing" In-Reply-To: References: <146.1b834c08.2cd3cb85@aol.com> <146.1b834c08.2cd3cb85@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> Besides, the guide >>is in danger of knocking things off tables with her skirts. >> >>Pul-eeze! Only if she's a complete cluts! > >Yeah, that bugged me too. Sheesh! Doesn't he think we know how to >manage our garments?????? And that's why they're not just costumes, because we know how to live in them and make them to be lived in. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume